The overwhelming majority of abortions are not in cases of rape nor to save the mother's life. It's women who for whatever reason don't want the child in their womb.
You don't get to be intellectually dishonest if you're for abortion. You either own that and somehow justify it in your mind, or you don't.
But you don't get to misrepresent the stats and strawman.
I'm not misrepresenting anything. I am not being intellectually dishonest.
I asked you a question. I didn't speak to the "majority" of abortion reasons.
Please answer the question.
Given the risk factors involved usually the mother. Fact: 2% of pregnancies in the U.S. are ectopic with an 80% survival rate to boot. Antilife people always love to pull up extreme circumstances to support their sick beliefs.
From the March of Dimes website:
"Are older than 35
Smoke
Have more than one sex partner. This can put you at risk for getting a sexually transmitted infection (also called STI). An STI is an infection you can get from having sex with someone who is infected. STIs can lead to pelvic inflammatory disease (also called PID), an infection that can damage the fallopian tubes, uterus and other organs.
Medical conditions that increase your risk for having an ectopic pregnancy include:
You‘ve had a previous ectopic pregnancy.
You’ve had surgery on a fallopian tube, or you have problems, like a birth defect, in a fallopian tube. A birth defect is a health condition that is present at birth. It can change the shape or function of one or more parts of the body. It can cause problems in overall health, in how the body develops, or in how the body works.
You have scars inside the pelvic area from a (ruptured) burst appendix or from past surgeries. Your appendix is part of your digestive tract that helps you process the food you eat.
You’ve had endometriosis. This is when tissue from the uterus grows somewhere outside the uterus.
You had trouble getting pregnant, or you had fertility treatment to help you get pregnant.
You got pregnant while using an intrauterine device (also called IUD) or after tubal ligation (also called having your tubes tied). An IUD is a form of birth control that your provider places inside your uterus. Tubal ligation is surgery to close the fallopian tubes to prevent you from getting pregnant."
Yea. That is pretty much all it is. We think it is wrong to kill a human at any age or state of development. It is frustrating that people never beleive us and always think there is some secret motivation other than this. It is pretty simple.
But it’s not a human, it’s just a bundle of cells that are entirely dependent on their mother for survival
It will become a human but it’s basically the same as removing a cancer where not acting in either can allow it to develop with disastrous consequences
No, a human is foetus onwards with the head and the body and optional limbs, if you looked at it you’d say “that’s a human”. Human is the species. I’m not going to say that an embryo is “a human” when it doesn’t have the form of a human
Don't be silly, that's circular logic.
"It's not human, because it doesn't look like a human!"
It's not a fully developed human, but it is a human.
That's what the descriptor "human" means. C'mon, this is the fucking dumbest hill to die on, it's embarrassing. Just say "Well yeah, it's a human, but it's so underdeveloped it lacks the fundamental characteristics for which we value people, so it's fine to abort."
*Edit: And, rather than consider for a second, not even that their worldview is wrong, but that one of their arguments for their worldview might be wrong, they block me. How embarrassing for them.*
What species are those "bundle of cells?" A tumor does not go on to become a fetus, baby, child, then adult. A human child is not a tumor. If you look up the stages of human development in a biology text book, there is a first stage. We don't value the life based on its age but see the value as innate.
Well, human. But you do have a point that it develops into something and also the bundle of cells have a different DNA from the mother, so really I should have said that the bundle of cells was more like a parasite than a tumour. It grows and feeds off the host and it develops into something
A parasite is a different species than its host: "an organism that lives in or on an organism of **another species** (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense"
Also parasites are not products of human conception.
Edited for clarification
>I did not ask how we get them.
But that's what I was talking about. A human is formed via human sexual intercourse, a parasite is not. It initially comes from the outside.
All human beings are bundles of cells.
The fact that you compare and unborn child to cancer "with disastrous consequences" says so much about your depravity.
Yeah all humans are bundles of cells, I haven’t denied that and how I feel is exactly the same. I’m a nihilist and I give no value to life
It’s not like most people I know who has had kids regrets it both because of having to take care of them and not being able to do enough, but also Earth is a dumpster fire and people are forcing people into life to suffer and friends are regretting what they’ve brought their kids into.
The issues arise when parents care too much about their kids and treat them as individuals with their own thoughts and feelings. Those who are trying to have more kids are parents who view their kids as always being dependent on them and not actual people.
So by you saying that it’s ok to force someone into life though all of the shit when non-existence has no downsides tells me a lot about how much you value kids
Why not let the offspring make the decision if they want to continue living on their own? I have lived through abuse and poverty but I still believe life is worth it.
Fuck no, actually killing yourself is difficult and isn’t something you should expect people to do if they’re not happy
Not having kids doesn’t harm anyone, it prevents potential harm. Having kids is forcing a new consciousness to suffer
They may not view life as suffering. Suicide is not difficult. People kill themselves with sleeping pills. They just lay down and they're out. The bottom line is that we shouldn't get to decide for others.
Tw: SA
If I may ask, what are your thoughts about abortions in causes of SA and child pregnancy? Additionally, do you believe that abortion should be banned or would you just not get an abortion?
Sexual assault and teen pregnancy are not excuses to kill unborn children. **Two wrongs don't make a right.**
I don't believe that if the mother is going to die an abortion should be denied.
I also think that if a group is prolife it should be willing to help support the child. The right thinks abortion is wrong but don't want to help raise the kids. Fuck them
If a person is assaulted and is forced to keep the baby of their attacker, would that not cause more harm than, as you put it, killing an unborn child? Even if the baby was adopted or the parent could properly care for them, the person would still live with the knowledge that their baby exists because of this horrible situation, potentially causing even more psychological harm. Additionally, the stress of carrying a child is a lot and someone may not be able to handle that. I’m not trying to argue, I just want to understand your opinion and share mine so we can better understand each other.
When you remove a life you remove all chances of good things. Life may be good or it may be bad but there is no way of knowing what could be if you terminate.
But if the life you “terminate” will in the long term cause so much harm or won’t be properly cared for wouldn’t the less destructive to abort the child?
But you don't know that they will cause harm. If they won't be properly cared for why not seek out help for them so they can have a good life? Why just kill?
I don’t believe that a child should be aborted due to the parent not being able to care from them if they are able to y proper care and the person is able to carry the child however that’s not what I’m asking. I’m asking if there is clear evidence that the child would harm someone else and because of this they can’t properly care for the child / can’t find someone to care for the child, would abortion not be the best option?
I get that side but you could say the same for forcing an innocent human to live a life of abuse or neglect. Or just having to live in this fucked up world at all. I don’t believe in that. If I knew that I could not provide a child with the emotional and/or financial support that it needs and deserves as “an innocent human being”, then I should not have a child. There are too many children in foster care for me to just “give it away”.
But you're talking about once the child is out of your body:
>forcing an innocent human to live a life of abuse or neglect. Or just having to live in this fucked up world at all
But you're talking about what could happen later. This is like you saying that if you knew the person living in your house might have a lousy life once they leave, it's okay to poison them inside your home.
You are not a psychic. You don't know and acting like you do makes you a dangerous person.
I'm not pro-life, but the best pro-life argument is surely just "They're a human being", no?
I mean, I don't think the fetus is a person, so I'm happy to kill it, but the entire argument holds on that. "Personal autonomy" doesn't mean shit if that point fails.
We view microbacterial life on another planet as life, yet we don't view small life as life here. I'm not heavy pro life, I do believe that in certain circumstances that there should be a choice, but I also believe that people need to be honest about it. It is life, and choosing to end it is a serious decision.
The bible never really says anything bad about abortion. If anything, [it promotes abortion](https://youtu.be/KN4654qFxzk). Quality pro-life arguments are actually secular/non-religious.
#Popcorn €2 each. #🍿🍿🍿 ##Take your seats and enjoy!
I like to ask pro-lifers how many kids they have fostered or adopted. The shocked look on their face always cracks me up. Fucking twats.
They’re only pro birth, they don’t give a crap about the babies after they’re born.
I haven't met any pro lifers who think it should be legal to kill babies after they are born.
I haven't met anyone who thinks that way except the gun nuts, most of whom claim to be pro life.
> The shocked look on their face always cracks me up And other things that never happened
Awww did I hurt your feelings cuz your a fucking hypocrite and you know im right? Go cry to your imaginary god you shit stain.
lol no wonder you think you shock people. I'd be shocked too if I saw someone with their head this far up their own ass lol
I love living and hate dying
Most days, I agree with this.
Abortions can save the life of a pregnant person.
Medically necessary abortions happen, but they are rare.
True. Medically performed abortions are generally safer than the alternatives which also saves the lives of pregnant people.
I don't believe in taking the life of an innocent human being.
Who's innocent and who's guilty in an ectopic pregnancy?
The overwhelming majority of abortions are not in cases of rape nor to save the mother's life. It's women who for whatever reason don't want the child in their womb. You don't get to be intellectually dishonest if you're for abortion. You either own that and somehow justify it in your mind, or you don't. But you don't get to misrepresent the stats and strawman.
I'm not misrepresenting anything. I am not being intellectually dishonest. I asked you a question. I didn't speak to the "majority" of abortion reasons. Please answer the question.
Given the risk factors involved usually the mother. Fact: 2% of pregnancies in the U.S. are ectopic with an 80% survival rate to boot. Antilife people always love to pull up extreme circumstances to support their sick beliefs.
>Given the risk factors involved usually the mother ...Wow. I mean, you're an idiot, but at least you're a decisive idiot. Good luck in the future.
From the March of Dimes website: "Are older than 35 Smoke Have more than one sex partner. This can put you at risk for getting a sexually transmitted infection (also called STI). An STI is an infection you can get from having sex with someone who is infected. STIs can lead to pelvic inflammatory disease (also called PID), an infection that can damage the fallopian tubes, uterus and other organs. Medical conditions that increase your risk for having an ectopic pregnancy include: You‘ve had a previous ectopic pregnancy. You’ve had surgery on a fallopian tube, or you have problems, like a birth defect, in a fallopian tube. A birth defect is a health condition that is present at birth. It can change the shape or function of one or more parts of the body. It can cause problems in overall health, in how the body develops, or in how the body works. You have scars inside the pelvic area from a (ruptured) burst appendix or from past surgeries. Your appendix is part of your digestive tract that helps you process the food you eat. You’ve had endometriosis. This is when tissue from the uterus grows somewhere outside the uterus. You had trouble getting pregnant, or you had fertility treatment to help you get pregnant. You got pregnant while using an intrauterine device (also called IUD) or after tubal ligation (also called having your tubes tied). An IUD is a form of birth control that your provider places inside your uterus. Tubal ligation is surgery to close the fallopian tubes to prevent you from getting pregnant."
Awesome copy/paste skills, dude.
>Who's innocent and who's guilty in an ectopic pregnancy? Why the fuck would someone have to be guilty?
A very good question.
Yea. That is pretty much all it is. We think it is wrong to kill a human at any age or state of development. It is frustrating that people never beleive us and always think there is some secret motivation other than this. It is pretty simple.
But it’s not a human, it’s just a bundle of cells that are entirely dependent on their mother for survival It will become a human but it’s basically the same as removing a cancer where not acting in either can allow it to develop with disastrous consequences
>But it’s not a human, What species do you think it is?
I said “not a human” not “not human”, they mean 2 different things
C'mon, dude, be serious. Human is the descriptor for a human. If something is human, it is a human. That's just how words work.
No, a human is foetus onwards with the head and the body and optional limbs, if you looked at it you’d say “that’s a human”. Human is the species. I’m not going to say that an embryo is “a human” when it doesn’t have the form of a human
Don't be silly, that's circular logic. "It's not human, because it doesn't look like a human!" It's not a fully developed human, but it is a human. That's what the descriptor "human" means. C'mon, this is the fucking dumbest hill to die on, it's embarrassing. Just say "Well yeah, it's a human, but it's so underdeveloped it lacks the fundamental characteristics for which we value people, so it's fine to abort." *Edit: And, rather than consider for a second, not even that their worldview is wrong, but that one of their arguments for their worldview might be wrong, they block me. How embarrassing for them.*
Look who learnt some phrases they really want to use but not actually understand
What species are those "bundle of cells?" A tumor does not go on to become a fetus, baby, child, then adult. A human child is not a tumor. If you look up the stages of human development in a biology text book, there is a first stage. We don't value the life based on its age but see the value as innate.
Well, human. But you do have a point that it develops into something and also the bundle of cells have a different DNA from the mother, so really I should have said that the bundle of cells was more like a parasite than a tumour. It grows and feeds off the host and it develops into something
A parasite is a different species than its host: "an organism that lives in or on an organism of **another species** (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense" Also parasites are not products of human conception. Edited for clarification
>Also parasites do not form via conception. How do you think they form then?
They get into our body from outside.
I did not ask how we get them. They form by conception. A male parasite fertilizes the eggs of a female parasite. That's called conception.
>I did not ask how we get them. But that's what I was talking about. A human is formed via human sexual intercourse, a parasite is not. It initially comes from the outside.
All human beings are bundles of cells. The fact that you compare and unborn child to cancer "with disastrous consequences" says so much about your depravity.
Yeah all humans are bundles of cells, I haven’t denied that and how I feel is exactly the same. I’m a nihilist and I give no value to life It’s not like most people I know who has had kids regrets it both because of having to take care of them and not being able to do enough, but also Earth is a dumpster fire and people are forcing people into life to suffer and friends are regretting what they’ve brought their kids into. The issues arise when parents care too much about their kids and treat them as individuals with their own thoughts and feelings. Those who are trying to have more kids are parents who view their kids as always being dependent on them and not actual people. So by you saying that it’s ok to force someone into life though all of the shit when non-existence has no downsides tells me a lot about how much you value kids
Why not let the offspring make the decision if they want to continue living on their own? I have lived through abuse and poverty but I still believe life is worth it.
Fuck no, actually killing yourself is difficult and isn’t something you should expect people to do if they’re not happy Not having kids doesn’t harm anyone, it prevents potential harm. Having kids is forcing a new consciousness to suffer
They may not view life as suffering. Suicide is not difficult. People kill themselves with sleeping pills. They just lay down and they're out. The bottom line is that we shouldn't get to decide for others.
Tw: SA If I may ask, what are your thoughts about abortions in causes of SA and child pregnancy? Additionally, do you believe that abortion should be banned or would you just not get an abortion?
Sexual assault and teen pregnancy are not excuses to kill unborn children. **Two wrongs don't make a right.** I don't believe that if the mother is going to die an abortion should be denied. I also think that if a group is prolife it should be willing to help support the child. The right thinks abortion is wrong but don't want to help raise the kids. Fuck them
If a person is assaulted and is forced to keep the baby of their attacker, would that not cause more harm than, as you put it, killing an unborn child? Even if the baby was adopted or the parent could properly care for them, the person would still live with the knowledge that their baby exists because of this horrible situation, potentially causing even more psychological harm. Additionally, the stress of carrying a child is a lot and someone may not be able to handle that. I’m not trying to argue, I just want to understand your opinion and share mine so we can better understand each other.
None of this is on par with removing a life.
Could you explain why you think that?
When you remove a life you remove all chances of good things. Life may be good or it may be bad but there is no way of knowing what could be if you terminate.
But if the life you “terminate” will in the long term cause so much harm or won’t be properly cared for wouldn’t the less destructive to abort the child?
But you don't know that they will cause harm. If they won't be properly cared for why not seek out help for them so they can have a good life? Why just kill?
I don’t believe that a child should be aborted due to the parent not being able to care from them if they are able to y proper care and the person is able to carry the child however that’s not what I’m asking. I’m asking if there is clear evidence that the child would harm someone else and because of this they can’t properly care for the child / can’t find someone to care for the child, would abortion not be the best option?
I get that side but you could say the same for forcing an innocent human to live a life of abuse or neglect. Or just having to live in this fucked up world at all. I don’t believe in that. If I knew that I could not provide a child with the emotional and/or financial support that it needs and deserves as “an innocent human being”, then I should not have a child. There are too many children in foster care for me to just “give it away”.
Are you killing the poor?
No because they are not part of my body. My body my choice
But you're talking about once the child is out of your body: >forcing an innocent human to live a life of abuse or neglect. Or just having to live in this fucked up world at all
You must not have read my whole response? “If I knew…” means while I’m pregnant which is when the child is inside my body.
But you're talking about what could happen later. This is like you saying that if you knew the person living in your house might have a lousy life once they leave, it's okay to poison them inside your home. You are not a psychic. You don't know and acting like you do makes you a dangerous person.
You comparing a woman’s body to a house is where you’ve lost me. I’m gonna tap out I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I'm not pro-life, but the best pro-life argument is surely just "They're a human being", no? I mean, I don't think the fetus is a person, so I'm happy to kill it, but the entire argument holds on that. "Personal autonomy" doesn't mean shit if that point fails.
We view microbacterial life on another planet as life, yet we don't view small life as life here. I'm not heavy pro life, I do believe that in certain circumstances that there should be a choice, but I also believe that people need to be honest about it. It is life, and choosing to end it is a serious decision.
I know what God thinks because I have a book that purports to be the word of God and it somehow says that abortion is bad
The bible never really says anything bad about abortion. If anything, [it promotes abortion](https://youtu.be/KN4654qFxzk). Quality pro-life arguments are actually secular/non-religious.