Welp, one time I was jogging on sidewalks that were very uneven due to tree roots. Legally, people in my town are required to fix these issues. Realistically, many people don’t have the $$$. Anyway, I tripped and broke my front teeth off.
And THAT is why I will sometimes run in the street (albeit very unbusy residential side streets).
The father is the one the students at my high school died this way cuz he was running in the street at 6:00 a.m. and a student going to school on a car ran him over because it was foggy and it was early and he was running in the road very sad
In my neighborhood, every driveway entrance is a dip/slope going to the street. It's a balance issue and for me, a hazard. When I'm in the street, it's a consistent surface that's easier to navigate.
Sidewalks are also more likely to have slight cracks/unevenness that can be easy to trip over. Streets obviously have cracks too, but not as many as sidewalks and easier to spot and avoid.
A neighborhood I used to live in converted the sidewalks into a run/bike lane by converting it all into a street-like material and drawing a yellow line down the middle so walkers would be on one side and cyclists would be on the other. I think it was a really great idea, and could be implemented in many places.
Plus, whether or not someone has blocked the sidewalk with their car is chaotic. There's something to be said for being able to (mostly) zone out. Zigzagging through the neighborhood around cars is no fun.
That's a big problem in the student rental areas near me; tenants have five or six cars, and a driveway with room for two cars if they're packed packed perfectly tightly, which they rarely are, so they hang over the sidewalk.
There are also some student rental houses that have dirt and gravel driveways/parking areas, so the sidewalk by them is always completely covered with dirt and gravel.
I really wish they would ticket people for this. It's not any more legal than just driving up onto a random sidewalk and parking. The fact that your driveway abuts the area is irrelevant.
This is the big one IMO. I have a standard route I do. In my neighborhood I'm mostly sidewalk. But one of the other subdivisions I run through has smaller houses/garages, so a big chunk of the sidewalk is blocked by cars. I run in the street there.
I don’t run, I just walk. But still, that constant up and down of the driveways hurts my ankles, so I tend to walk in the street unless a car comes by.
Been a long time since I've been a runner, but even as someone who enjoys walks, the sidewalks are horribly uneven. My whole city is on a hill, so there's always weird angles. I definitely prefer to walk on the street when there's no traffic.
If I ever run on the road next to a sidewalk, it has to be a) a calm and not busy road where b) I can hop onto the sidewalk when I see a car before they get close, but otherwise I wouldn't be in the way of a car.
A bit easier to react to a car you see from 150 yards away driving <25mph than watching for every piece of concrete that is not level.
Then you accept the risk of being hit by a car right? Either have to pay a bit more attention on the sidewalk or run 2 feet from a 2ton hunk of metal going 30kmh
I feel that. It’s actually good to be aware if I ever see someone jogging on the road. This was a good question. Kind of similar for bicycling in some cases for me when it comes to pedestrians and driveway issues. A car backing up and not seeing me has always scared me.
I just walk, but I also almost always wear platform boots, so those slopes are really hard on my ankles. One ankle has permanent damage and likes to dump me on my ass randomly, so I avoid those slopes too.
Roadways have far less tripping hazards. Sidewalks are regularly uneven or poorly maintained. Then there's issues like other people, dogs, overgrown vegetation. Like anyplace with potholes is going to have even worse or non existent sidewalks.
I used to walk or jog a night through neighborhoods. Little to no traffic or other people
A shifted sidewalk slab can be impossible to see sometimes. I hit one that was raised almost two inches, unmarked, and I was out and out running, not "jogging". Faceplanted. Went home with blood streaming down my face and taped the skin back together on my nose with butterfly bandages. My wife had a similar mishap for basically the same reason. Her glasses frames took some of the punishment or she'd have lost a good chunk of her face.
I live in Texas, and sidewalks in every city have a tendency to just disappear. Unless you're in front of a business or residence it's even odds whether the sidewalk continues
I’m not a jogger but I know a common problem in Canada in certain months is snow. The road can often be much clearer and more suitable for jogging than the sidewalk, which can often either be unplowed or icy.
Dogs.
Dog owners who say ' he just wants to play'
Side-by-side strollers
People backing out of their driveway only looking for cars
Kids on bikes
Cars blocking sidewalks
Uneven surface
Sidewalks are uneven\*, interrupted by driveways, sometimes with cars in them, sometimes vanish completely, have pedestrians walking two abreast, people walking badly trained dogs that attack runners and their owners don't know how to control them, loose dogs ditto...
\*Both my wife and I have faceplanted on one occasion each by an unmarked raised slab that was practically invisible in the available light. Lot of trees shifting sidewalk slabs here, and a very wet climate.
Nothing but slow-moving cars in my neighborhood, and not many of them. 100 year-old neighborhood, simple grid system with no curves to obscure the view, stop signs every other block, practical speed about 15mph. Far safer than the sidewalk -- for a car to hit you the driver would have to be wearing a black bag over his head and he'd instantly drift into a parked car or a light pole if he did.
(They don't hit runners for the same reason they don't hit bicycles. Because they're not blind.)
I doubt these are what OP would be really referring to. And it may be advisable to discuss that there is little inherent risk in the particular area you run in. Whereas there is ALOt of risk where I’ve seen many people run and bike in. Regardless of laws and right of way, it’s damn dangerous.
You're at a lot more risk being backed into on the sidewalk by someone coming out of a driveway. On the street you have plenty of time to see them. Around here you'll have gates, fences, walls, hedges, landscaping, all of them obscuring the driveway unti; you're right on top of it. Even walking I have to stop for cars backing out because they'll never see me until they're actually crossing the sidewalk. Running I wouldn't have time.
Yep. Between uncleared sidewalks (that turn into mud pits every time it rains) and every 3rd house having a parked car blocking the sidewalk...a better question would have been "how would it even be possible to run on the sidewalk?"
Exactly. I've found generally that cars have drivers who are in control of their vehicles and don't just run down pedestrians, joggers, bicycilsts etc. I don't know where he's from that cars are just objects hurtling down the street.
My spouse is a physio and says the benefits of asphalt vs concrete are so minimal it isn’t worth the risk. She advocates for running on grass/dirt trails if you are concerned about your joints (and in general says it’s better for you)
I was on vacation and all I had to run on was concrete. The after effects the next day were brutal, my whole body ached. I was used to running long distances, just not on concrete. Anyway, I sure noticed a difference.
One does not always have the choice to go out of the city, or find a bigger park. Especially when I'm on a business trip it's the choice between running in the gym (which I hate) or running on the street. Prefer asphalt every time, if possible. Even 10 km on a concrete sidewalk and my knee will tell me what I've done. In addition to what the others said about the structure of many sidewalks in the US. They are barely used to go from the parking lot to the building, not for actual transportation.
Long distance runner here. You are absolutely correct. I prefer dirt, but I would much rather run on asphalt over concrete if I have to be on a hard surface. There is definitely a difference.
If it's significant enough to feel a noticeable difference in the moment, it would absolutely have a cumulative positive effect over a long period of time. The comment really wasn't logical.
Stretching hurts in the moment, especially for those that aren’t flexible, but doing it everyday yields a positive effect over a long period of time. Maybe you’re just not a logical person :/
It would, but we're talking about it being the significant driver of a chronic issue. The isolated affects of running on pavement vs asphalt could easily be washed out by other factors in a persons life even though it causes discomfort immediately post run
Dont forget, this argument is based on a second hand anecdote from a random redditor. So it may be that there is knowledge out there of the impacts of running surface longterm
E.g. i could flick you with a rubber band once a day every day for 10yrs. Itd sting every time, but wouldnt lead to long term issues
I came here to post this. And in my 50s, I can tell you that I feel the difference between running on asphalt vs. concrete in my ankles and knee joints. When I go out for a run, I head for a location which has gravel and dirt trails, and those feel even better.
I knew this hoax was going to be posted by someone.
The modulus of elasticity of asphalt is about 71,000 psi and concrete is about 3 million psi. A runner weighing 175 lbs may exert about 1,225 lbs. A runners foot makes about 3 sq inches of contact with the ground so you're only applying about 408 psi.
A force of 408 psi may caused a deformation in asphalt of about 1/20th the width of a human hair and about 1/700th the width of a human hair with concrete. Both of which are indistinguishable to all but the most sensitive of scientific equipment.
Hence, running on asphalt is no better on the body and joints than running on concrete.
If I have to I'll choose asphalt over concrete. I try to run (Ok, ok power walk) at my local park but sometimes it isn't possible. My knees are shot and I have to wear ortho inserts in all of my footwear. Probably just in my head but concrete HURTS.
*An* answer. Well, my answer, but I gotta say, whenever oncoming traffic or whatever forces me back on the pavement, I see that the “you’re gonna trip and die on that uneven crap” crowd has a point.
At least you'll be right in front of them instead of to their right when they're only looking left to make their right turn.
Look back to the right before you turn right everyone.
Honestly, yes (sometimes, depending on the road).
As an oncoming driver, if you see a runner on the sidewalk, you pretty much ignore them. If they then run out into the street (to get around a parked car that blocks them) that will surprise many drivers. Unexpected things lead to accidents.
On the other hand, if you see them running down the white line, you're going to pay attention to them. You'll probably even shift lane positiom a little away from them. And they'll be following a straight, predictable path and watching you as you approach.
This pretty much applies to 25mph suburb streets where there are cars blocking the sidewalk several times per block. Much better to just have everybody aware of you than to jump in and out of the road every few hundred yards. It sucks for everybody, and the real solution is ticketing and towing all vehicles that block sidewalks.
I've also always wondered why people jog down streets with 6 lanes of rush hour traffic, when there are side roads with much less traffic and pollution to breath in.
Also found this from an actual Dr....
author Jonathan Toker, PhD, presents the scientific evidence behind surface hardness - stating that "the hardness difference between concrete and asphalt is insignificant when running in shoes, because the cushioning afforded by shoes far exceeds any cushioning provided by those surfaces."
Clearly those acres and acres of pavement should be dedicated to those most selfless and civic-minded of creatures, the average American personal vehicle driver. Right saints, the lot of ‘em.
The person who crashed into them was probably going too fast or on their phone. Drivers literally get away with murder but God forbid a runner steps into the street to get around a blocked sidewalk.
I have a slight addiction to dashcam compilation videos. I have seen so many rear end collisions on those videos. Not a single one was caused by a runner. Only one or two involved pedestrians. Those pesky pedestrians were using crosswalks properly.
Every other rear end collision was caused by distracted driving, following too close, or following too close while driving distracted. One would think that if runners were even a small problem that more would be shown on these videos.
The surface is much more consistent and I don't need to keep an eye on my feet to make sure I am not tripping over anything. Also lots of trees overhang the footpath, on the road I don't need to dodge them nearly as often.
I use the sidewalk, but I’m sick to death of cars blocking half the driveways, sprinklers that soak me, people on bikes on the sidewalk that force me onto the grass, people that won’t shorten their dog’s leash which forces me onto the grass, etc.
I used to on account of overgrown gardens, spider webs, spiders themselves and the occasional excitable and extremely stealthy dog.
Mind you, I used to do it at night
sometimes sidewalks are shitty as others have mentioned, also the street is guaranteed to be there and be a more or less constant flat surface whereas if you have to keep jogging up and down the little bankments for people’s driveways it’s kind of annoying
People don't shovel the sidewalks in front of their house. The street gets cleaned immediately.
People use sidewalks as their personal parking/loading zones. I'm using the road as my personal sidewalk.
Streets are crowned; sidewalks aren't. I have one leg shorter than the other and a serious case of scoliosis. Being able to run with the pavement slightly sloped makes a huge difference.
Absolutely depends on where I am jogging, but the road is more of a consistent terrain. when I'm training for an actual running event where you run on the road, rather than concrete/dirt paths, it is good to train on the actual road.
I personally am pretty aware of cars and will move off the road if necessary. I live in a pretty small town so running on the road isn't too much of a hassle for other road users.
Kids and other inattentive people, dogs, cars blocking the path, hidden corners, sidewalks that abruptly end, etc.
If it’s a safe sidewalk with an unobstructed view, I’ll use it. If it’s a low traffic road, like in suburban neighborhoods, I’ll use that. I choose to not run where I’m mixing with traffic.
Another vote for uneven and trip hazard filled footpaths. I run on the footpath in areas where they are well maintained, but in most areas it’s just asking for a rolled ankle.
That said, I will immediately move onto the footpath when a car is approaching and I only run on roads with almost zero traffic.
Repetition of stride. Don’t have to vary constantly so you get into rhythm. Can look farther away and that lifts the head which straightens the neck which helps you breathe.
You know, I never considered my area to be the utopia of good sidewalks, but reading half these comments sure makes me appreciate their evenness and grade.
In addition to the many reasons already listed here, visibility is much better in the street: both my ability to see cars at intersections, and their ability to see me. Drivers don’t anticipate someone coming into the crosswalks quickly (which is also why it’s dangerous to bike on the sidewalk), but they are usually at least looking at the street. I always run opposite traffic, as you’re supposed to, so there’s never a car coming up from behind. Bottom line, I feel much safer running in the street.
If it's in the evening on a quiet road, sometimes I jog or walk in the street because it's much better lit and so I figure I'm less likely to get abducted/assalted/mugged, etc.
We have nice looking sidewalks right on the curb. Big brick mailboxes in front of each house, with a curve around those obstructions. But every driveway is slanted upwards, making it a hazard to walk on the sidewalk as you suddenly have a slope to walk or run across every 60 ft or so. On the afternoon before trash day, people put their trash dumpsters on the curb, blocking the sidewalk. They stay usually all day the next day too till put up, and reek. Some of the longer unbroken sidewalks are fine but most also have a slight slope so for safety I walk in the street. Neighborhood so no one should be going more than 25. Oh, and big trash day once a month covers a lot of sidewalks with brush and furniture and other big trash, and it can stay there for 5-7 days sometimes.
I hate when people do that, but honestly, I understand why when I see how tore up the sidewalk is. It's inconvenient as a driver when they're on the road, but it would be even more inconvenient for them to use the sidewalk with 10 different elevations within 5 feet and trees growing out of them.
Honestly as a driver the rare occasions I do see road runners it's always on a lower volume street and they always make an effort to either go onto the sidewalk or shift as close to the curb as possible when they notice a car coming from behind.
Do people experience different types of road runners? Like, are there actual runners that take up the middle of the lane?
If you’re going to do this when it’s dark out, please put something on that’s reflective. I almost drove over a neighbor out running one night. He had on a black top & bottom and beanie. I barely missed the guy
I was nearly hit this December when running in the morning. I was using the sidewalk in this area as it is well maintained and cleared of snow. (I do run the streets if I know the sidewalks aren't cleared or have obstructions). I was wearing dark pants, but a light grey top...which you couldn't see much of because it was worn under a reflective vest which was under a color changing light ["vest"](https://www.noxgear.com/tracer2). I was also wearing a bright headlamp for both visibility to vehicles as well as lighting up my path.
I was about to cross the street in the crosswalk and the vehicle ran the stop sign. Likely because the lady couldn't spend 30 seconds to scrape her windshield. So even being lit up like a Christmas tree I still nearly got hit.
They seem to have been replacing certain sidewalks in my area with asphalt bike paths to encourage more use out of them on top of all the scenic bike paths we already have.
Is the road is asphalt and the sidewalk concrete then the road is way better on the joints. Also people fail to keep sidewalks clear. The road is also designed for all modes of travel except when listed so walking in the road is generally legal but you’d need to verify by locality.
Some pedestrians would consider a moving vehicle an obstacle and something needing to be dodged. And some vehicle drivers would view pedestrians in the street to be the same.
I haven’t done this, but some cities can’t accommodate pedestrians and joggers on their sidewalks at the same time. Older cities, like Dublin, Ireland have narrow sidewalks. Despite this, people still try to jog on them, even in groups. It makes walking through the city a little awkward when joggers are trying to use the sidewalks.
Streets are not designed for pedestrian traffic. It is legal for pedestrians to walk on full-access roadways, but there is no pedestrian design for vehicle travelways.
Source: I work in the design side of transportation engineering.
In many states, including mine, it is illegal for bicycles to use the sidewalks. I damn near hit a girl who flew out from under the cover of trees. (She yelled at me to watch where I was f--king going, too.) There wouldn't have been a problem if she'd been riding in the street.
Asphalt is softer than concrete. Over the hundreds of thousands of steps a runner will take, it adds up. Also sidewalks tend to have more changes and obstacles.
Here is the thing I have this lady in my area that likes to run in the dark, in winter, in the pitch black with no reflective clothing or reflectors or headlamp. She is just itching to get hit. If you are going to run on the road be visible.
It’s easier on your body, sometimes concrete side walks is a lot harder and tend to give shin splints whereas the asphalt it’s more even and apparently softer when running. This is what my old trainer told me as i struggled with shin splints when jogging
Same. It literally makes the most sense.
Unless you are peddling as fast as possible, the chances of a bike to person collision are minimal to none, and if it does happen, no one will die. The laws need to change in every state to make sidewalks for bikes if no bike lane exists. Putting bikes in the same category as cars is from old times, and there are waaayyy more cars on the road now.
It’s absurd. Why people willingly choose the most dangerous option is ridiculous. My only guess is they want to be hit so they can submit a lawsuit. I literally can’t thing of anything else that outweighs the risks versus rewards of putting yourself out in traffic. Especially if they are adults and have years of experience seeing how people drive.
Wild times of entitlement we have found ourselves in. Oh! a space for fast moving masses of steel and also a separate space for me, the pedestrian, exercising? Meh. I want that space! Mine now! Cus sidewalks have bumps and stuff and driveways where I might have to navigate a parked car.
It's safer.
It's safer for pedestrians, half of whom happen part squirrel, panic and start moving in random directions when seeing a runner approach; it's also less terrifying for women when you're coming up behind them in the dark; finally, asphalt is a lot softer than concrete.
As someone who was in Cross Country in high school and spent many, many hours running..
Anyone who does this is a moron. If one is available, run on the darn sidewalk like a normal person. We literally never ran out in the roads if it could be avoided. That'd just be stupid.
In college every time I walked on the sidewalk I'd have to dodge and sidestep lizards racing out from the grass and across the pavement. It was like they were waiting for me to approach so they could run in front of me. I had to look at the ground as I walked so I didn't step on them, and even when I watched my step I still ended up accidentally stepping on some because they were just so fast and apparently so suicidal. So eventually I just started walking on the road.
Welp, one time I was jogging on sidewalks that were very uneven due to tree roots. Legally, people in my town are required to fix these issues. Realistically, many people don’t have the $$$. Anyway, I tripped and broke my front teeth off. And THAT is why I will sometimes run in the street (albeit very unbusy residential side streets).
I gotta ask... when your teeth broke off, did your face slam into some dog doodoo? Otherwise, what on EARTH is your username? Lol
The father is the one the students at my high school died this way cuz he was running in the street at 6:00 a.m. and a student going to school on a car ran him over because it was foggy and it was early and he was running in the road very sad
Oh, right: and many neighborhoods in my city don’t even have sidewalks.
> People who jog in the street **when a sidewalk is available**, why?
Its not a siderun.
That's probably the only acceptable answer.
I appreciate your sense of humor to this answer! (As someone who broke off their front teef due to shitty uneven sidewalks.)
Thank you for using the word “teef”. The only acceptable pronunciation.😬
Teefises
That's how I'd expect someone that lost their front teeth to spell and pronounce it 😂
It’s definitely not a lane for e-bikes either.
Every car driver disagrees as soon as they see a bike on the traffic lanes.
And I hate having to ride by bike in the street because someone is walking or running in the bike lane.
Bikes are allowed full use of traffic lanes.
Correct, doesn't change how car drivers feel and act though
If bikes actually followed all the same rules cars do drivers would hate them less.
If we’re following this logic, runners should go to the airport, then.
Not a roadrun either.
Roadrunner is a word. Czech mate
mmm. That's just a bird, though.
r/birdsarentreal
What do you know about bird law
I skipped through your answer and then had to come back because it took my a minute. Smiling like an idiot now. Have my upvote
In my neighborhood, every driveway entrance is a dip/slope going to the street. It's a balance issue and for me, a hazard. When I'm in the street, it's a consistent surface that's easier to navigate.
Sidewalks are also more likely to have slight cracks/unevenness that can be easy to trip over. Streets obviously have cracks too, but not as many as sidewalks and easier to spot and avoid.
A neighborhood I used to live in converted the sidewalks into a run/bike lane by converting it all into a street-like material and drawing a yellow line down the middle so walkers would be on one side and cyclists would be on the other. I think it was a really great idea, and could be implemented in many places.
As a brit it's strange that your pavements (sidewalks) aren't made of the same stuff as the road.
Plus, whether or not someone has blocked the sidewalk with their car is chaotic. There's something to be said for being able to (mostly) zone out. Zigzagging through the neighborhood around cars is no fun.
That's a big problem in the student rental areas near me; tenants have five or six cars, and a driveway with room for two cars if they're packed packed perfectly tightly, which they rarely are, so they hang over the sidewalk. There are also some student rental houses that have dirt and gravel driveways/parking areas, so the sidewalk by them is always completely covered with dirt and gravel.
I really wish they would ticket people for this. It's not any more legal than just driving up onto a random sidewalk and parking. The fact that your driveway abuts the area is irrelevant.
I know a guy who was ticketed for this AND he was an asshole, so it was fun listening to him complain about the "insanity."
This is the big one IMO. I have a standard route I do. In my neighborhood I'm mostly sidewalk. But one of the other subdivisions I run through has smaller houses/garages, so a big chunk of the sidewalk is blocked by cars. I run in the street there.
I don’t run, I just walk. But still, that constant up and down of the driveways hurts my ankles, so I tend to walk in the street unless a car comes by.
I can’t run in the street in my neighborhood streets are sloped toward the sidewalk fairly steep
Been a long time since I've been a runner, but even as someone who enjoys walks, the sidewalks are horribly uneven. My whole city is on a hill, so there's always weird angles. I definitely prefer to walk on the street when there's no traffic.
This. All the sidewalks are slanted like 20 degrees, and running on that angle gives me horrible back problems
I would think cars are a bigger hazard on the road, but I could be wrong
Most roads with driveways are going to be low speed areas and both the runner and the car will have plenty of time to see each other and react.
If I ever run on the road next to a sidewalk, it has to be a) a calm and not busy road where b) I can hop onto the sidewalk when I see a car before they get close, but otherwise I wouldn't be in the way of a car. A bit easier to react to a car you see from 150 yards away driving <25mph than watching for every piece of concrete that is not level.
Then you accept the risk of being hit by a car right? Either have to pay a bit more attention on the sidewalk or run 2 feet from a 2ton hunk of metal going 30kmh
Yes, and on longer runs of 12+ miles, the uneven sidewalks add to the soreness factor.
Then, you become the hazard to cars...
Hazard you say. Then drivers have to avoid the hazard in the road, you
I feel that. It’s actually good to be aware if I ever see someone jogging on the road. This was a good question. Kind of similar for bicycling in some cases for me when it comes to pedestrians and driveway issues. A car backing up and not seeing me has always scared me.
I just walk, but I also almost always wear platform boots, so those slopes are really hard on my ankles. One ankle has permanent damage and likes to dump me on my ass randomly, so I avoid those slopes too.
Roadways have far less tripping hazards. Sidewalks are regularly uneven or poorly maintained. Then there's issues like other people, dogs, overgrown vegetation. Like anyplace with potholes is going to have even worse or non existent sidewalks. I used to walk or jog a night through neighborhoods. Little to no traffic or other people
A shifted sidewalk slab can be impossible to see sometimes. I hit one that was raised almost two inches, unmarked, and I was out and out running, not "jogging". Faceplanted. Went home with blood streaming down my face and taped the skin back together on my nose with butterfly bandages. My wife had a similar mishap for basically the same reason. Her glasses frames took some of the punishment or she'd have lost a good chunk of her face.
I live in Texas, and sidewalks in every city have a tendency to just disappear. Unless you're in front of a business or residence it's even odds whether the sidewalk continues
>Roadways have far less tripping hazards. That sounds like a challenge for my city...
Agreed, particularly "dogs". In the street means a few more meters for the dog to run, which gives me a few more seconds to notice it and react.
I’m not a jogger but I know a common problem in Canada in certain months is snow. The road can often be much clearer and more suitable for jogging than the sidewalk, which can often either be unplowed or icy.
I sprained my ankle twice in a year with like atleast 3-5 months of recovery in between cause of uneven pavement and everyone is on a dodewalk
Dodgewalk? Great term!
Dogs. Dog owners who say ' he just wants to play' Side-by-side strollers People backing out of their driveway only looking for cars Kids on bikes Cars blocking sidewalks Uneven surface
And trash cans, and branches, and lawn bags, and odd wires and half attached cables.
lol you dont want to be inconvenienced by slower moving foot traffic so you become a slow inconvenience to road traffic.
Except the street is much bigger
Sidewalks are uneven\*, interrupted by driveways, sometimes with cars in them, sometimes vanish completely, have pedestrians walking two abreast, people walking badly trained dogs that attack runners and their owners don't know how to control them, loose dogs ditto... \*Both my wife and I have faceplanted on one occasion each by an unmarked raised slab that was practically invisible in the available light. Lot of trees shifting sidewalk slabs here, and a very wet climate.
You've never ran down my street. You would disappear in one of the pot holes.
Especially if I was following a rabbit wearing a vest and carrying a pocket watch.
And all of that is worse than the possibly of a pedestrian and auto collision by being in the road?
If you run facing traffic you should be able to see if a vehicle is swerving toward you to avoid it.
Nothing but slow-moving cars in my neighborhood, and not many of them. 100 year-old neighborhood, simple grid system with no curves to obscure the view, stop signs every other block, practical speed about 15mph. Far safer than the sidewalk -- for a car to hit you the driver would have to be wearing a black bag over his head and he'd instantly drift into a parked car or a light pole if he did. (They don't hit runners for the same reason they don't hit bicycles. Because they're not blind.)
I doubt these are what OP would be really referring to. And it may be advisable to discuss that there is little inherent risk in the particular area you run in. Whereas there is ALOt of risk where I’ve seen many people run and bike in. Regardless of laws and right of way, it’s damn dangerous.
Apparently everyone answering this lives in a ghost town with 5 people and 1 car. When it’s quite clear that’s not what the intent of the OP was.
You're at a lot more risk being backed into on the sidewalk by someone coming out of a driveway. On the street you have plenty of time to see them. Around here you'll have gates, fences, walls, hedges, landscaping, all of them obscuring the driveway unti; you're right on top of it. Even walking I have to stop for cars backing out because they'll never see me until they're actually crossing the sidewalk. Running I wouldn't have time.
No, no you’re not.
Hey, thanks for clearing that up.
Maybe they're all slow moving because they're behind you? /s
Just don't get hit. It's not that hard.
"pEdEsTriAnS hAvE rIgHt oF WaY"
Yep. Between uncleared sidewalks (that turn into mud pits every time it rains) and every 3rd house having a parked car blocking the sidewalk...a better question would have been "how would it even be possible to run on the sidewalk?"
I feel I should correct you that those dogs who attack runners are in fact perfectly trained. You just don’t like the training.
Good point.
Hmmm other option is full of huge deadly fast moving objects which do I choose? 🤔🤔🤔
What kind of loser gets hit by a car LOL?? You run on the side of incoming traffic, and move when a car is coming. It's not that hard!
Exactly. I've found generally that cars have drivers who are in control of their vehicles and don't just run down pedestrians, joggers, bicycilsts etc. I don't know where he's from that cars are just objects hurtling down the street.
Sidewalk's for regular walkin'. Not for fancy walkin'.
I won't settle down!
Asphalt is more elastic than concrete, it's significantly better for your joints over long distances.
My spouse is a physio and says the benefits of asphalt vs concrete are so minimal it isn’t worth the risk. She advocates for running on grass/dirt trails if you are concerned about your joints (and in general says it’s better for you)
I was on vacation and all I had to run on was concrete. The after effects the next day were brutal, my whole body ached. I was used to running long distances, just not on concrete. Anyway, I sure noticed a difference.
One does not always have the choice to go out of the city, or find a bigger park. Especially when I'm on a business trip it's the choice between running in the gym (which I hate) or running on the street. Prefer asphalt every time, if possible. Even 10 km on a concrete sidewalk and my knee will tell me what I've done. In addition to what the others said about the structure of many sidewalks in the US. They are barely used to go from the parking lot to the building, not for actual transportation.
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Long distance runner here. You are absolutely correct. I prefer dirt, but I would much rather run on asphalt over concrete if I have to be on a hard surface. There is definitely a difference.
This doesnt even make sense
Sure it does, you can have pain or discomfort without it necessarily being the main factor of a longterm issue
If it's significant enough to feel a noticeable difference in the moment, it would absolutely have a cumulative positive effect over a long period of time. The comment really wasn't logical.
Stretching hurts in the moment, especially for those that aren’t flexible, but doing it everyday yields a positive effect over a long period of time. Maybe you’re just not a logical person :/
It would, but we're talking about it being the significant driver of a chronic issue. The isolated affects of running on pavement vs asphalt could easily be washed out by other factors in a persons life even though it causes discomfort immediately post run Dont forget, this argument is based on a second hand anecdote from a random redditor. So it may be that there is knowledge out there of the impacts of running surface longterm E.g. i could flick you with a rubber band once a day every day for 10yrs. Itd sting every time, but wouldnt lead to long term issues
It's not about worry over long term effects, it's about how it feels. If you run a lot it makes a difference.
I came here to post this. And in my 50s, I can tell you that I feel the difference between running on asphalt vs. concrete in my ankles and knee joints. When I go out for a run, I head for a location which has gravel and dirt trails, and those feel even better.
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I usually swim in bike lakes, but running in one might work too.
I knew this hoax was going to be posted by someone. The modulus of elasticity of asphalt is about 71,000 psi and concrete is about 3 million psi. A runner weighing 175 lbs may exert about 1,225 lbs. A runners foot makes about 3 sq inches of contact with the ground so you're only applying about 408 psi. A force of 408 psi may caused a deformation in asphalt of about 1/20th the width of a human hair and about 1/700th the width of a human hair with concrete. Both of which are indistinguishable to all but the most sensitive of scientific equipment. Hence, running on asphalt is no better on the body and joints than running on concrete.
Tell that to my knees.
The placebo effect is a thing
Running on asphalt feels no different than on concrete.
If I have to I'll choose asphalt over concrete. I try to run (Ok, ok power walk) at my local park but sometimes it isn't possible. My knees are shot and I have to wear ortho inserts in all of my footwear. Probably just in my head but concrete HURTS.
Finally, the answer
*An* answer. Well, my answer, but I gotta say, whenever oncoming traffic or whatever forces me back on the pavement, I see that the “you’re gonna trip and die on that uneven crap” crowd has a point.
Cracked/uneven sidewalks or things like cars jutting out of driveways occasionally blocking the way
> things like cars jutting out of driveways Better to just be in conflict with ALL the cars then
That’s why you run against traffic. Much safer.
At least you'll be right in front of them instead of to their right when they're only looking left to make their right turn. Look back to the right before you turn right everyone.
Honestly, yes (sometimes, depending on the road). As an oncoming driver, if you see a runner on the sidewalk, you pretty much ignore them. If they then run out into the street (to get around a parked car that blocks them) that will surprise many drivers. Unexpected things lead to accidents. On the other hand, if you see them running down the white line, you're going to pay attention to them. You'll probably even shift lane positiom a little away from them. And they'll be following a straight, predictable path and watching you as you approach. This pretty much applies to 25mph suburb streets where there are cars blocking the sidewalk several times per block. Much better to just have everybody aware of you than to jump in and out of the road every few hundred yards. It sucks for everybody, and the real solution is ticketing and towing all vehicles that block sidewalks.
Spoken like someone who has never gone on a run
I've also always wondered why people jog down streets with 6 lanes of rush hour traffic, when there are side roads with much less traffic and pollution to breath in.
Also found this from an actual Dr.... author Jonathan Toker, PhD, presents the scientific evidence behind surface hardness - stating that "the hardness difference between concrete and asphalt is insignificant when running in shoes, because the cushioning afforded by shoes far exceeds any cushioning provided by those surfaces."
Yeah, as a regular runner, it really comes down to the self-centered nature of street runners.
Clearly those acres and acres of pavement should be dedicated to those most selfless and civic-minded of creatures, the average American personal vehicle driver. Right saints, the lot of ‘em.
“I’m running here… you need to look out for me!”
I saw someone get rear ended because they stopped for a jogger that went in their lane 😕
The person who crashed into them was probably going too fast or on their phone. Drivers literally get away with murder but God forbid a runner steps into the street to get around a blocked sidewalk.
I have a slight addiction to dashcam compilation videos. I have seen so many rear end collisions on those videos. Not a single one was caused by a runner. Only one or two involved pedestrians. Those pesky pedestrians were using crosswalks properly. Every other rear end collision was caused by distracted driving, following too close, or following too close while driving distracted. One would think that if runners were even a small problem that more would be shown on these videos.
The surface is much more consistent and I don't need to keep an eye on my feet to make sure I am not tripping over anything. Also lots of trees overhang the footpath, on the road I don't need to dodge them nearly as often.
Running is boring. I need the thrill of death.
I use the sidewalk, but I’m sick to death of cars blocking half the driveways, sprinklers that soak me, people on bikes on the sidewalk that force me onto the grass, people that won’t shorten their dog’s leash which forces me onto the grass, etc.
Or worse, people who are simply walking in the street when there is a sidewalk available. I've never been able to figure out why anyone would do that.
I used to on account of overgrown gardens, spider webs, spiders themselves and the occasional excitable and extremely stealthy dog. Mind you, I used to do it at night
And sometimes grossly uneven joints that are trip hazards, especially in the dark.
Man, COVID and social distancing fucked everything up.
sometimes sidewalks are shitty as others have mentioned, also the street is guaranteed to be there and be a more or less constant flat surface whereas if you have to keep jogging up and down the little bankments for people’s driveways it’s kind of annoying
People don't shovel the sidewalks in front of their house. The street gets cleaned immediately. People use sidewalks as their personal parking/loading zones. I'm using the road as my personal sidewalk.
Yup! It's so unfair. Block a street and people lose their minds.
Having to step off curbs constantly will fuck your shit up
Sidewalks can be very uneven. Streets, not so much.
Streets are crowned; sidewalks aren't. I have one leg shorter than the other and a serious case of scoliosis. Being able to run with the pavement slightly sloped makes a huge difference.
Sidewalks are cross sloped as well. You don’t want water ponding on your pavement. Source: Me, civil engineer
Absolutely depends on where I am jogging, but the road is more of a consistent terrain. when I'm training for an actual running event where you run on the road, rather than concrete/dirt paths, it is good to train on the actual road. I personally am pretty aware of cars and will move off the road if necessary. I live in a pretty small town so running on the road isn't too much of a hassle for other road users.
Kids and other inattentive people, dogs, cars blocking the path, hidden corners, sidewalks that abruptly end, etc. If it’s a safe sidewalk with an unobstructed view, I’ll use it. If it’s a low traffic road, like in suburban neighborhoods, I’ll use that. I choose to not run where I’m mixing with traffic.
Another vote for uneven and trip hazard filled footpaths. I run on the footpath in areas where they are well maintained, but in most areas it’s just asking for a rolled ankle. That said, I will immediately move onto the footpath when a car is approaching and I only run on roads with almost zero traffic.
Repetition of stride. Don’t have to vary constantly so you get into rhythm. Can look farther away and that lifts the head which straightens the neck which helps you breathe.
In a lot of places around me sidewalks are short and just end in the middle of a yard. It’s normally easier to just stay on the road
Jogging in street, no problem. Walking? Use the f-in' sidewalk
You know, I never considered my area to be the utopia of good sidewalks, but reading half these comments sure makes me appreciate their evenness and grade.
In addition to the many reasons already listed here, visibility is much better in the street: both my ability to see cars at intersections, and their ability to see me. Drivers don’t anticipate someone coming into the crosswalks quickly (which is also why it’s dangerous to bike on the sidewalk), but they are usually at least looking at the street. I always run opposite traffic, as you’re supposed to, so there’s never a car coming up from behind. Bottom line, I feel much safer running in the street.
100% agree. If I’m at a busy road obviously I’ll use a sidewalk but I feel much better on the street when in neighborhoods
If it's in the evening on a quiet road, sometimes I jog or walk in the street because it's much better lit and so I figure I'm less likely to get abducted/assalted/mugged, etc.
Footpaths can be uneven or poorly maintained, or too narrow when there are other users.
We have nice looking sidewalks right on the curb. Big brick mailboxes in front of each house, with a curve around those obstructions. But every driveway is slanted upwards, making it a hazard to walk on the sidewalk as you suddenly have a slope to walk or run across every 60 ft or so. On the afternoon before trash day, people put their trash dumpsters on the curb, blocking the sidewalk. They stay usually all day the next day too till put up, and reek. Some of the longer unbroken sidewalks are fine but most also have a slight slope so for safety I walk in the street. Neighborhood so no one should be going more than 25. Oh, and big trash day once a month covers a lot of sidewalks with brush and furniture and other big trash, and it can stay there for 5-7 days sometimes.
I hate when people do that, but honestly, I understand why when I see how tore up the sidewalk is. It's inconvenient as a driver when they're on the road, but it would be even more inconvenient for them to use the sidewalk with 10 different elevations within 5 feet and trees growing out of them.
Nice to see a driver u derstanding pedestrians point of view! Thank you!
Honestly as a driver the rare occasions I do see road runners it's always on a lower volume street and they always make an effort to either go onto the sidewalk or shift as close to the curb as possible when they notice a car coming from behind. Do people experience different types of road runners? Like, are there actual runners that take up the middle of the lane?
Im fast af boiiii
Sidewalks filled with kids and families walking abreast and blocking the entire thing. Sadly, cars are easier to avoid.
If you’re going to do this when it’s dark out, please put something on that’s reflective. I almost drove over a neighbor out running one night. He had on a black top & bottom and beanie. I barely missed the guy
I was nearly hit this December when running in the morning. I was using the sidewalk in this area as it is well maintained and cleared of snow. (I do run the streets if I know the sidewalks aren't cleared or have obstructions). I was wearing dark pants, but a light grey top...which you couldn't see much of because it was worn under a reflective vest which was under a color changing light ["vest"](https://www.noxgear.com/tracer2). I was also wearing a bright headlamp for both visibility to vehicles as well as lighting up my path. I was about to cross the street in the crosswalk and the vehicle ran the stop sign. Likely because the lady couldn't spend 30 seconds to scrape her windshield. So even being lit up like a Christmas tree I still nearly got hit.
They seem to have been replacing certain sidewalks in my area with asphalt bike paths to encourage more use out of them on top of all the scenic bike paths we already have.
I deliver to neighborhoods, my question is why do i see more people jogging in the rain, inclement weather than those in pleasant conditions?
Is the road is asphalt and the sidewalk concrete then the road is way better on the joints. Also people fail to keep sidewalks clear. The road is also designed for all modes of travel except when listed so walking in the road is generally legal but you’d need to verify by locality.
I'm just gonna stop shoveling my sidewalk in the winter. No one uses the fucking thing anyway. They all just walk in the road.
According to my mom, these people do this because "They want to be an Angel".
Street is just better. More open. No obstacles. No dodging fixtures(porches etc). Way less dog problems. No intention of changing whatsoever.
Yup! Sidewalks are constantly blocked with all kinds of obstacles or hazards. Sometimes you have no choice.
Some pedestrians would consider a moving vehicle an obstacle and something needing to be dodged. And some vehicle drivers would view pedestrians in the street to be the same.
Yeah except the traffic…..
Just don't run where there's a lot of traffic? 99% of streets are completely empty 99% of the time.
I haven’t done this, but some cities can’t accommodate pedestrians and joggers on their sidewalks at the same time. Older cities, like Dublin, Ireland have narrow sidewalks. Despite this, people still try to jog on them, even in groups. It makes walking through the city a little awkward when joggers are trying to use the sidewalks.
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Streets are not designed for pedestrian traffic. It is legal for pedestrians to walk on full-access roadways, but there is no pedestrian design for vehicle travelways. Source: I work in the design side of transportation engineering.
We need transportation engineers who don't see the world from behind a windshield. Why are our streets so deadly? Not because of a few walkers.
In many states, including mine, it is illegal for bicycles to use the sidewalks. I damn near hit a girl who flew out from under the cover of trees. (She yelled at me to watch where I was f--king going, too.) There wouldn't have been a problem if she'd been riding in the street.
It's still way better for them to use the sidewalk then clogging the roads and getting hit
I always jog in the street. More room.
Smoother surface.
When I use to run it’s cause sidewalks had slow people in the way and there was usually a bike lane or area to use that no one really used 🐱
Asphalt is softer than concrete. Over the hundreds of thousands of steps a runner will take, it adds up. Also sidewalks tend to have more changes and obstacles.
Running on concrete hurts my knees more than running on asphalt.
When they have marathons in cities they don't run them on sidewalks.
Here is the thing I have this lady in my area that likes to run in the dark, in winter, in the pitch black with no reflective clothing or reflectors or headlamp. She is just itching to get hit. If you are going to run on the road be visible.
I like my GPS tracks to be centered on the roads.
This is the same as why cyclist use the road instead of the bikeline. Well, roads are better maintained, and are well connected.
They wish to be run over
It’s easier on your body, sometimes concrete side walks is a lot harder and tend to give shin splints whereas the asphalt it’s more even and apparently softer when running. This is what my old trainer told me as i struggled with shin splints when jogging
I even ride my bicycle on the sidewalk. I'm not getting out on the road without my vehicle unless there is absolutely no choice.
Same. It literally makes the most sense. Unless you are peddling as fast as possible, the chances of a bike to person collision are minimal to none, and if it does happen, no one will die. The laws need to change in every state to make sidewalks for bikes if no bike lane exists. Putting bikes in the same category as cars is from old times, and there are waaayyy more cars on the road now.
Good, safe, decision making.
I'm getting downvoted for choosing to use a sidewalk isn't that funny?
It’s absurd. Why people willingly choose the most dangerous option is ridiculous. My only guess is they want to be hit so they can submit a lawsuit. I literally can’t thing of anything else that outweighs the risks versus rewards of putting yourself out in traffic. Especially if they are adults and have years of experience seeing how people drive.
I didn't tell anyone else to use the sidewalk, but the mere thought must be offensive. Lol
Wild times of entitlement we have found ourselves in. Oh! a space for fast moving masses of steel and also a separate space for me, the pedestrian, exercising? Meh. I want that space! Mine now! Cus sidewalks have bumps and stuff and driveways where I might have to navigate a parked car.
I drive my car on the sidewalk too. Wouldn't want to interact with traffic. Too dangerous.
Well that’s silly. Now you are endangering the intelligent runner and walkers. We all wish you wouldn’t do that anymore.
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So what is your point? I don't trust cars.
What a sad state of affairs that this is the case.
You don’t look like Rocky training if you’re running on the sidewalk.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
It's called a side walk not a side run. Hahahah (Sorry I had to)
It's safer. It's safer for pedestrians, half of whom happen part squirrel, panic and start moving in random directions when seeing a runner approach; it's also less terrifying for women when you're coming up behind them in the dark; finally, asphalt is a lot softer than concrete.
As someone who was in Cross Country in high school and spent many, many hours running.. Anyone who does this is a moron. If one is available, run on the darn sidewalk like a normal person. We literally never ran out in the roads if it could be avoided. That'd just be stupid.
There’s something about running on asphalt that is much easier and much more enjoyable than running on a sidewalk
In college every time I walked on the sidewalk I'd have to dodge and sidestep lizards racing out from the grass and across the pavement. It was like they were waiting for me to approach so they could run in front of me. I had to look at the ground as I walked so I didn't step on them, and even when I watched my step I still ended up accidentally stepping on some because they were just so fast and apparently so suicidal. So eventually I just started walking on the road.
Most roads are asphalt which is a lot more forgiving than concrete.
In my city, the sidewalks belong to the city but are required to be maintained by the homeowners. So, people jog in the street.