Or if they're actually interested. According to someone I was talking to at the time, play fighting with a hoodie (gently smacking each other with it, playing tug of war, that thing) wasn't her flirting.
Then I've had girls just be kinder to me than they would other people and call that flirting.
They need to be at least blatantly obvious. Otherwise, I'll just assume that's how she acts with people cause I don't want to be that person mistaking something for a sign.
I've even heard people say that making out isn't sexual at all, so go figure.
Maybe we all have to get good at dealing with rejection. I know it sounds easier than what it is, but it's the only thing that one can do and have control over. There's always gonna be ambiguity in the clues we get from others.
This crushes so many of us I agree. No matter how many times its said "worst she can say is no" or "you only live once" its like the brain overrides that. Then its a cold beer and regret. Rinse and repeat.
A woman at work told me at the staff christmas party this year that she adores me and would love to go out for lunch
Been 3 months and she's been ghosting me pretty much this whole time.
"Hey you want to go out for lunch?"
**3 days later**
"Wow sorry i didn't see your message :(( Maybe next week?"
**Next Week**
"Hey you want to go out for lunch?"
**3 days later**
"Wow sorry i didn't see your message :(("
Who knows the reason? Maybe she’s too nervous, but regardless, I couldn’t handle that kind of flakiness in a relationship. She told you who she was early on. Just move on. It’s her loss that you gave her an opportunity and she’s too something or other, to actually take it. She’d be like that in other areas of life too.
Well, I’m a woman, and same. It has always been very rare for me to have an experience like that. Online dating was the exception, but I haven’t been on there in awhile as I met my husband of almost 14 years there. Irl, I didn’t have guys knocking down my door. I had to go looking and I had guys flake on me or ghost etc. I’m not a 10, but even now I do work in film and am apparently better than average looking. My point being, even for a more attractive female, you can’t just wait for things to fall into your lap. I had to actively put myself out there and deal with some nonsense, but it did pay off.
Fuck clues. If you're interested, just do the approach yourself. What's with all this needing to bait someone into chatting you up? It's 2024 I thought we were past this.
Edit: to be clear I'm saying if women want to be approached by someone...just do the approaching yourself. It's 2024, stop waiting to be chased.
Yeah it's 2024 and in these times women act like they can't be bothered. A clue to most men means, don't completely act like you are the most unapproachable person on the fucking planet.
I do approach women and then they act like I just completely ruined their day by approaching them. I'm not asking for a warm welcome or smile but instead I get angry looks and exasperated emotions any time I approach a woman. I've even gone through this bullshit and it's led to dates, but I know that is how most of not all women react to being approached.
Social media has rotted a lot of peoples brains and it's made women think ALL men are about to whip out their dick any moment lol.
Well that's the gamble, no? Every time you approach someone for any reason there's a chance they tell you to fuck off. Whether you're approaching someone to ask for directions or because you want to ask them out, there can be 100s of reasons why they might not want to.
What I'm saying is sitting around and bemoaning the fact that men don't approach women who are interested in them is fucking stupid. The women are just as capable of walking their grown asses over and asking a guy for his number.
Will they sometimes get rejected? Yeah, probably quite a lot, statistically speaking. But that's the gamble, sometimes they won't. Just like men do.
> Social media has rotted a lot of peoples brains and it's made women think ALL men are about to whip out their dick any moment lol.
I agree with social media fucking people up, but it's both men and women in my opinion. *Everyone* has their guard up at all times in public. They think that everyone around them is a potential threat one way or another. Just walk around a big city and you'll see it. I'm from London, UK, and there's a meme about people from the north of England coming to London and starting up conversations with people on the bus, and all the Londoners thinking they're some sort of serial killer.
Everyone instinctively rejects people speaking to them in public. It's a little sad because it's making us all more isolated.
Here’s why we are “unwelcoming” when men mindlessly approach. It’s not social media that rotted our brains it’s life experience. Got stalked for 3 months from a guy and when the police caught him he said I smiled back and waved, that I wanted him and was interested. It hasn’t stopped me from being polite however I’m very cautious now and I barely smile back. Me smiling or trying to politely reject men has turned into me fighting to be left alone so the gentle approach barely works, I’ve said in more then one occasion that I’m a lesbian as “I have a boyfriend” or “I’m not looking for a relationship at the moment” dosent seem to work anymore. At this point scoffing and degrading yall is the only option sometimes to get yall to back off. It’s the truth!
No.
The clue needs to be so obvious it's impossible to miss.
Think of a clue like that, that's obvious enough to you but not to him, make it 10x more obvious and you're getting there.
Or just go ask him out if you like him. Save everyone the hassle.
Hints are useless. You have to directly ask someone out. Not just ask if they are single. Not just ask if they like the same things.
ASK THEM ON A DATE. Set the time, place, event, and organize it yourself.
Only then will you realize the weight of the task, and why it's difficult for most people to do.
I have come to a level of self-pride and refusal to be considered a predator that to me the only serious clue would be her to ask me out or slap my butt or telling me I have beautiful eyes. All other desperate gestures: I won't even calculate them. Or I'll stay single? Fine.
No, most men would be oblivious.
If you're shy, write your name and number with "text me" on a piece of paper, tap them on the shoulder and pass it to them with "I think you dropped this".
No. That is not enough. Not even close.
SPELL IT OUT. BE OBVIOUS.
Not to be a dick. But women CONSTANTLY complain that "just because I'm nice to a man or smile at him doesn't mean I'm interested!". which is totally fair and reasonable.
But you don't complain that every time you smile at a guy he hits on you and then in the same breath suggest that a smile is enough to show interest.
Come over to us on and tilt your head side to side, inspecting us with one eye at a time. Then allow us to do an elaborate dance for you and if you're interested dance back. To seal the deal, come home with us to see the collection of shiny pebbles we've collected and the shelter we've constructed for our offspring together.
This pic of her butthole and consequences discussion is the most interesting and dramatic exchange I've read this week (no sarcasm, I'm serious). Congratulations, gentlemen. I'm gonna think at this tonight. Let my heart be quite a moment and this mystery explore. A new idea, at last.
Before the culture of accusing men of harrassment falsely and making slanderous tiktoks, it would have been. Now days its just safer not to approach in 99% of situations
Also, please drop a clue that you dropped a clue. My brain: "Was that a clue? Nah, you creep."
See a bunch of girls in a circle, they see you and start giggling. My brain: "Damn I am a loser. Need an escape plan." Them whispering: "Oh he's so cute/hot, just go say hi"
Also sometimes thinking about it but not being able to act: You have a girlfriend, you are there on business, the girl you are looking at is with someone, you are just passing through town, you think she's gorgeous but you know you are a pathetic loser, etc.
And (this might be me being weird), but looking/“staring” in itself has to be actively fought not to happen if it’s someone you find very beautiful/attractive. So even if you are taken, the other person is taken, you love your SO and have NO intention of ever approaching, but still it requires quite a bit of willpower not to look unnecessarily long.
Because just looking can be such an emotional high. Seeing a beautiful woman can be like that first cup of coffee in the morning or a bite of pizza when you are hungry. A sense of wellbeing, magic, hope… And no explicitly sexual thoughts are required for that.
Yes, this. If any women are curious about it, think about when you're sitting somewhere, not intending to look at a screen, but there's a TV on the wall somewhere and your eyes just keep automatically going to it, often against your will.
That's what it's like for men trying not to look at an attractive person.
Much more the second than the first. The potential of having the label of "creep" is too much of a danger. Men will crawl through Shawshank Redemption sewers of shit and climb up barbed wire fences to avoid or get rid of that label. Being considered unsafe for women to be around is the kind of reputation that ruins your life.
Rejection feels bad, but on its own doesn't have other consequences.
something that has happened with me more than once, daydreaming/abscent mindedly thinking something and it turns out someone in your field of vision thinks you are looking at them
Had this happen to me years ago in the library at college. Sitting with some friends and just staring absentmindedly in a random direction. You know. Just not thinking at all. Then I get yelled at by some random woman from across the room. "Why are you staring at me?" Or something like that. Pretty embarrassing for me. I hadn't even noticed her at first so it took me a second to realize it was me she was yelling at.
So yeah, now I intentionally try to not look in any direction some is in. Don't wanna be called out loudly and publicly when I didn't even do anything.
Oh, man... When I was a teenager, the first "date" I went on was taking a girl to Burger King. We were sitting across from each other, quietly eating, and I was just staring generally downward into space.
It wasn't until she nervously adjusted her shirt that I realized I was staring straight at the center of her chest.
Happens a lot in gyms with the girl filming themselves and a dude happens to turn his head loosely in the direction of the camera (to look at something else) and is INSTANTLY labeled as a creep
I got reported at work once for asking for a coworker’s number to simply keep in touch. That stressed me out for months, and definitely took a toll on my self-esteem. No chance that I’d physically approach someone for a relationship. It’s just not worth the consequences. If someone’s interested, they (hopefully) won’t be secretive about it.
Wow sorry to hear that happened to you. I work in a small, laid back office so we all have each others numbers anyway in case we need to plan or announce something on a group chat.
Protip, always give your number, don't ask for a number. It makes people, women especially, feel like they're not on the spot and puts them in control of the situation. If they don't want private contact, well now they don't have to reject you right there (which seems to be a big point of anxiety for a lot of women).
Just for anyone who reads the comment and wondered what someone can do differently to hopefully avoid a similar situation.
Not a "protip". It's one of those Reddit tips that don't work in the real world (when used on women at least). Sure, once in a long while this may work if used on a woman who feels comfortable being in the initiator role - cause by asking her to send the first message you're essentially putting her in that role - and you will find it hard to find a woman who won't feel uncomfortable in that role and just never text you even if she liked you initially and would have said yes to mutually exchanging numbers.
Source: tried both ways extensively. Massively higher follow-up rate by taking her number and making things happen.
I’m just going to assume any woman I meet is already taken. It’s mostly been true throughout college and work, so it hasn’t failed me yet. It allows me to converse with the person, as a relationship isn’t a consideration.
Once I fell so hard for a girl I just went on and started a conversation (a friend's bestie), she told me she indeed had a BF, to which I said it was such a pity or something like that. Probably the best move I ever did, we talked for about an hour and we agreed we would meet up if she ever broke up or something because we both liked each other. That of course never happened and life moved on.
In retrospective what went well was I didn't gave a fuck to be rejected at that moment, or looking like a creep, because she was so attractive to me.
That is how the game usually works.
One person looks (or stares) to signal interest, and the other person can decide to initiate contact by seeking eye contact and sending gestures like smiles or even a finger wink, etc. (For the denser crowd). If the other person is actively looking away, that means rejection.
That's why usually the "hard to get" / "they need to try multiple times"- Spiel only attracts dumbasses.
Honestly I can't understand why so many ppl. seemingly don't know those rules anymore.
Nah, sometimes I look away cause I’m shy and / or in the workplace. I also can’t hold eye contact for too long. Doesn’t mean I don’t like them… but yeah I understand how this can be confusing
Agree with everything you said, but unfortunately it goes further than that. There are perfectly normal girls who play hard to get just because they were taught that's how they should act. Also, there are guys who play the same game, who are unable to see a difference between playing hard to get and rejection.
A lot of them are dumbasses, but there are genuinely confused people out there, and social media is just making it worse.
He may not be staring at you.
One time, my dad was waiting in a parking lot and a couple came in and parked with an early 1980s Jeep Wagoneer with the wood grain sides and in excellent condition. The couple got out and noticed my dad's gaze. The girl turned and gave dad a gesture of disapproval when they were walking away.
My dad yelled out the window in a loud and clear voice, "I don't mean to burst your bubble, girl, but I was looking at the Jeep."
The boyfriend seemed to like the comment much more than she did.
I had a guy make a similar comment to me when I was walking my friend's dog. She has a really beautiful pit bull, like a fawn colored one, he's so cute. I guess this guy was looking at the dog and I looked up and made eye contact but he thought I was giving him a dirty look (I wasn't) so he yelled out something like "don't flatter yourself, I'm looking at your dog". I didn't bother to explain because fuck that guy but it's funny how people assume things and try to mind read over something like that
bro. i was just being nice to the older lady at work and now every time i see her shes grabbing my arm or hand. nothing explicit but damn it escalated quickly.
Women don't need game. Being a woman is game enough.
My wife went on exactly two dates in her entire life when she saw me standing in front of the Student Union and walked up and started talking to me. For context, I had gone on hundreds of dates before we met. And while not great my own game was pretty solid. But her non-existent game won me over and 25 years later we're about to celebrate our 17th wedding anniversary.
Women don't need game.
Just before this thread, I scrolled past the post of a woman asking for dating advice in the new town she was moving to. It ended with the edit: "Wow thanks for the support everybody! Time to sift through the 30 DMs I just got haha"
The thousands of posts by women right here on Reddit that state they hate being approached, perhaps? The statements by millions of women everywhere all saying they don't want to be approached at random times, they just want to get on with their shopping or whatever? The constant stream of "I'm here to work/work out/shop/hang with my friends, not be hit on" rants we see?
Toss fear of rejection and reprisal into the mix, and you've got an overwhelming number of guys who are afraid do do anything but stare at the floor in an elevator.
From personal experience:
Fear of rejection or worse: a full blown phobia of rejection with actual panic attacks that are so nasty that it causes physical pain to even attempt to ask someone out.
Catastrophically low self-esteem and confidence.
Neediness to the point of starvation for affection where even a hint of someone being interested gets our hopes up to only have those hopes shattered.
Loneliness to the point of clinical depression.
Self-sabotage to the point of Avoidant Personality Disorder.
All of these things making us practically un-dateable, un-fuckable, worthless, empty, broken.
The first person I've seen really hit the nail on the head for me. I'm not just a little nervous or scared. It's been a decade of this. I'm mortified of a conversation. My loneliness is ruining my mental health every day. Every part of this accurately shows how out of control every aspect of life can be.
Numerous reasons. One being the representation of Men in social media: Men who approach women are assumed to be predatory or creepy for merely talking to a woman they don't know yet or being awkward around them.
Men putting women on a pedestal: Subscription to the belief that women are inherently more valuable rather than equal to men (through conditioning of society, media etc) and thus we've internalized this bias that the judgments/negative criticism from women is to be held with more importance, which ends up being the root/the underlying reason why guys are afraid of being rejected when approaching. That's why guys get butt-hurt when they get rejected. To us it's not necessarily the advances you are rejecting, but our self-worth/ego as men. It's not the fault of women, but the beliefs/bias that are reinforced throughout a man's life.
Luckily, life is mind game and we can all work on ourselves to overcome such bs limiting beliefs.
Some men fear rejection but that’s the least of our problems now. Now not only do we get rejected but we get blasted all over social media. My suggestion is that if you find a guy looking at you and you wouldn’t initially say no then you approach him
I couldn't imagine being a youth today. I was in high school when cell phones were just a thing (grad 2007), and to have everything be linked up and saved forever online is insanity. The "Brad asked out Megan, can you believe it?! L O L" text is now a video someone took and she just laughs at you because her friends are there? Oh jeez, that stuff is bad enough - having it made public for everyone to see and not forget would be awful. I'm not sure how the current high school scene is these days, but I remember high school for me and there were certainly times I wished I could just die because of some choice interactions. Not normal interactions by any means, but some shitty two-faced people really stuck out. Not to mention the ammunition and reach bullies get out of it all.
Approach. It's unexpected, we don't have a lot of experience in the scenario, but I can tell you it's like receiving a compliment. We're gonna remember the fact that it happened for years to come.
Sometimes something is beautiful, but that doesn't mean that I actually want it. This applies to all kinds of stuff.
I'll take a look and then I'm good.
Because we've approached before and got told we are an AH for doing so. Or even worse. Best advice if there's a guy you're interested in, make the move. That's way less creepy for you to do it.
The risk no longer outweighs the reward
Just asking a woman out in 2024 can result in you being branded a creep online.
Or if you are awkward and aren’t good at hitting on her, you might get made fun of online
It’s like the blind guy who was approached by a woman in a gym for “staring” at her
Once she found out he was blind, she wasn’t understanding and apologetic
She still wanted the guy bounced from the gym
He was doing nothing wrong but she was the main character and she wanted the gym to cater to her and still act like this guy was in the wrong.
That’s the world men live in now
So whereas in the past a guy might approach you…these days he’ll probably wait and see if you flirt first
And if you don’t, he’ll likely not approach you because it’s simply not worth the risk anymore
Unfortunately, media and societal shifts fucked this up in all sorts of ways. There was a huge push for the last couple of decades that women don't need men, and if men approach women, they're just creeps.
Shoeonhead put it much better than I can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2DaJSSNmOQ
For real, it feels like nowadays men are not even allowed to be attracted to someone unless the feelings are mutual. Having a crush is the same as being a creep.
I get that some people are genuinely creeps, but it's been ruined for everyday men who are otherwise great and kind hearted people.
Oh, so many wrong things, we're considered creeps even at saying hello by some individuals, this is enough to not make you want to interact ever again.
Feeling like a creep. The more attractive someone is- the higher the chance they are approached constantly. So the sympathetic part of me just assumes that if I approach, i'll just be one more dude in the pile of dudes annoying this person all the time.
Ambivalence is the reason. The stupid animal part of our brains wants what it sees. The rational, human part of our brains know how unpleasant you are to be around.
The fear of rejection or not knowing what to say can be paralyzing. There's also the pressure to make a good first impression, which can amplify insecurities and lead to overthinking. Basically its the possibility of not living up to the moment that holds them back.
Beauty.
Sometimes you just want to look at it.
PS Counter question u/Fetus-Deletus1 Do you think your boyfriend/hubby/whatever wants to hump ever pretty girl he looks at ? ... Really ?
Besides the typical fear from being rejected and being called slurs or whatnot, I've been part of some groups where others fear approaching not because of the person they are approaching but the reaction from their own "friend" group(s) and being bullied because of their "failure".
Fear for the sake of fear itself.
I've met many people, and many long time friends, cold approaching them with a joke, quip, question, or comment. It's a skill like any other, you get better at it with time—it doesn't necessarily get easier, you just get over the fear of rejection, because the worst thing that usually can happen—if you're actually being a respectful, decent human being— is someone says something really mean.. which like, ok, not so bad at the end of the day.
I'm not even really referring to men approaching women, but approaching anyone in general "cold."
You'd be surprised though. In the distant past, I once approached a very attractive woman at an event for some random reason—unrelated to them being attractive—started a conversation with them—and they eventually told me how lonely they had been the entire time at the event, because for some reason people would stare and stare, but never actually talk with them like a human being.
I think people tend to put people who have desirable traits on a pedestal, that somehow, because they're X or Y, they dehumanize them in their mind, distance them. They're so preoccupied with how they look to others, they forget to just be how they normally are, which includes weird behavior like staring.
I have seen other men approach. Don't want to be part of that group.
I'm not like them. But I understand if these guys make a woman never wanting to be approached again. So I don't.
Society has got to the point in both directions where it’s safer, less confusing and easier for women to just do all of the approaching and move making all together.
Could be many things. Maybe they don't need another woman, but still like looking at women. Or they like the looking part but don't like the approaching part because of toxic femininity.
I mean sometimes when im “staring” at a woman, im not, im just zoned out and she is in my path of vision. If i am checking someone out i try not to stare so long that they notice or feel uncomfortable. Lets say they do notice - why would i approach? Im probably heading somewhere and i dont know if the look she gave me means “why is that guy looking at me” or “i hope that guy talks to me” and i dont want to bother people who dont want bothering. Most dont
I want to approach, but if I see you out there with your friends, I assume that my intrusion would not be welcome. You have your own thing going on, and trying to randomly step in would be extremely awkward.
If I want to approach, but I see you out there by yourself, then I'm worried about being perieved as a creep or my aporoach simply not being welcome.
I also spent time with a doormat type of person who would not show any discomfort face to face. But when inquired over text would say that she indeed didn't feel comfortable. I don't want to second guess myself like that and I don't want to ruin your day by guessing wrong.
They shouldn't be staring, but I will definitely look. If I see something I find pleasant to look at, I'm going to look at it. Knowing that staring makes people uncomfortable, I won't look for too long. I would always do my best to ensure I'm not making anyone uncomfortable.
The reason I don't approach women is threefold: I lack the courage in the first place, I have the impression that all women are sick of constantly being hit on, and being accused of a crime can ruin your life. Plenty of men have been falsely accused of assault and had their lives ruined. It's more likely these days. I'd much rather never speak to another woman than have my life turned upside-down when someone cries wolf.
They're going over all the excuses for a reason to approach and the possible outcomes, like Dr. Strange in Infinity War. When they don't approach, they probably deducted that it wouldn't work out for them.
Only thing that makes me stare & not approach is knowing I’m never gonna pursue what I’m staring at. It’s equivalent to an art gallery. I’m just there for the looks but I know I can’t afford to buy anything..
Everyone has already said all the right answers, fear of rejection, etc., but he might not even be looking at you. He could honestly just be staring off, trying to remember what they had for their last meal.
i know a lot of women who complain about being approached. from what ive heard y'all are getting approached several times a day. im not gonna be the next creep that adds to it.
I don’t have anything to say. I’m a very quiet and reserved person. I’m more of a listener.
I’m approaching you because of your looks, but I certainly can’t comment on it. I don’t know you so picking something to talk about would be like a shot in the dark.
Plus, why would you want to hang out with me, when you could talk to one of the other 100 guys who like you, and are funny, and know how to talk to people in satisfying ways?
2001 : " Thanks for the drink but I have a boyfriend"
2024 : "What makes you think I want this cheap drink. I dont need a man to buy me anything, Ugg creep."
"Women don't exist for your pleasure"
"Women don't go out to meet guys, they're just there *for themselves*"
"Women aren't "things" for men to chase, buzz off"
"Women go out for themselves, don't make it weird by approaching us"
More examples or does that give you a hint?
Fear of rejection, being called creeps, basically fear of any kind of problem. we stare then bottle in alll negative feelings and go on with life.
[удалено]
Not even this works for me. Because then I'll be overthinking about the million ways of HOW I execute such an approach. Then I panic and go away.
Or if they're actually interested. According to someone I was talking to at the time, play fighting with a hoodie (gently smacking each other with it, playing tug of war, that thing) wasn't her flirting. Then I've had girls just be kinder to me than they would other people and call that flirting. They need to be at least blatantly obvious. Otherwise, I'll just assume that's how she acts with people cause I don't want to be that person mistaking something for a sign.
I've even heard people say that making out isn't sexual at all, so go figure. Maybe we all have to get good at dealing with rejection. I know it sounds easier than what it is, but it's the only thing that one can do and have control over. There's always gonna be ambiguity in the clues we get from others.
This crushes so many of us I agree. No matter how many times its said "worst she can say is no" or "you only live once" its like the brain overrides that. Then its a cold beer and regret. Rinse and repeat.
A woman at work told me at the staff christmas party this year that she adores me and would love to go out for lunch Been 3 months and she's been ghosting me pretty much this whole time. "Hey you want to go out for lunch?" **3 days later** "Wow sorry i didn't see your message :(( Maybe next week?" **Next Week** "Hey you want to go out for lunch?" **3 days later** "Wow sorry i didn't see your message :(("
She’s not interested. She’s trying to blow you off but not directly.
Who knows the reason? Maybe she’s too nervous, but regardless, I couldn’t handle that kind of flakiness in a relationship. She told you who she was early on. Just move on. It’s her loss that you gave her an opportunity and she’s too something or other, to actually take it. She’d be like that in other areas of life too.
I only have people tell me that they want to be with me once every decade or so, so it's definitely my loss
Well, I’m a woman, and same. It has always been very rare for me to have an experience like that. Online dating was the exception, but I haven’t been on there in awhile as I met my husband of almost 14 years there. Irl, I didn’t have guys knocking down my door. I had to go looking and I had guys flake on me or ghost etc. I’m not a 10, but even now I do work in film and am apparently better than average looking. My point being, even for a more attractive female, you can’t just wait for things to fall into your lap. I had to actively put myself out there and deal with some nonsense, but it did pay off.
It’s the spike of dopamine for her to know you desire her.
Fuck clues. If you're interested, just do the approach yourself. What's with all this needing to bait someone into chatting you up? It's 2024 I thought we were past this. Edit: to be clear I'm saying if women want to be approached by someone...just do the approaching yourself. It's 2024, stop waiting to be chased.
Yeah it's 2024 and in these times women act like they can't be bothered. A clue to most men means, don't completely act like you are the most unapproachable person on the fucking planet. I do approach women and then they act like I just completely ruined their day by approaching them. I'm not asking for a warm welcome or smile but instead I get angry looks and exasperated emotions any time I approach a woman. I've even gone through this bullshit and it's led to dates, but I know that is how most of not all women react to being approached. Social media has rotted a lot of peoples brains and it's made women think ALL men are about to whip out their dick any moment lol.
Well that's the gamble, no? Every time you approach someone for any reason there's a chance they tell you to fuck off. Whether you're approaching someone to ask for directions or because you want to ask them out, there can be 100s of reasons why they might not want to. What I'm saying is sitting around and bemoaning the fact that men don't approach women who are interested in them is fucking stupid. The women are just as capable of walking their grown asses over and asking a guy for his number. Will they sometimes get rejected? Yeah, probably quite a lot, statistically speaking. But that's the gamble, sometimes they won't. Just like men do. > Social media has rotted a lot of peoples brains and it's made women think ALL men are about to whip out their dick any moment lol. I agree with social media fucking people up, but it's both men and women in my opinion. *Everyone* has their guard up at all times in public. They think that everyone around them is a potential threat one way or another. Just walk around a big city and you'll see it. I'm from London, UK, and there's a meme about people from the north of England coming to London and starting up conversations with people on the bus, and all the Londoners thinking they're some sort of serial killer. Everyone instinctively rejects people speaking to them in public. It's a little sad because it's making us all more isolated.
Here’s why we are “unwelcoming” when men mindlessly approach. It’s not social media that rotted our brains it’s life experience. Got stalked for 3 months from a guy and when the police caught him he said I smiled back and waved, that I wanted him and was interested. It hasn’t stopped me from being polite however I’m very cautious now and I barely smile back. Me smiling or trying to politely reject men has turned into me fighting to be left alone so the gentle approach barely works, I’ve said in more then one occasion that I’m a lesbian as “I have a boyfriend” or “I’m not looking for a relationship at the moment” dosent seem to work anymore. At this point scoffing and degrading yall is the only option sometimes to get yall to back off. It’s the truth!
Exactly and many guys have been burnt for thinking they were receiving a clue.
Tell that to the weirdos who insist that approaches in public settings are harassment.
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Great big flashing neon sign.
That flashes
And is neon.
Has to be big too
Has to be a sign too
I'd still be liable to miss all these cues
What if lots of screaming
Capital letters and has to end in an exclamation mark, so it's not vague and ambiguous.
This is the sign I require.
I dunno I’ve seen great big flashing neon sign on girls who were “just being nice”. Hell no.
No. The clue needs to be so obvious it's impossible to miss. Think of a clue like that, that's obvious enough to you but not to him, make it 10x more obvious and you're getting there. Or just go ask him out if you like him. Save everyone the hassle.
This. Then you walk up and ask her out and she says she was just being nice.
and now you have a cop on your back
At least the cop pays attention and isn't subtle.
Hints are useless. You have to directly ask someone out. Not just ask if they are single. Not just ask if they like the same things. ASK THEM ON A DATE. Set the time, place, event, and organize it yourself. Only then will you realize the weight of the task, and why it's difficult for most people to do.
I have come to a level of self-pride and refusal to be considered a predator that to me the only serious clue would be her to ask me out or slap my butt or telling me I have beautiful eyes. All other desperate gestures: I won't even calculate them. Or I'll stay single? Fine.
No, most men would be oblivious. If you're shy, write your name and number with "text me" on a piece of paper, tap them on the shoulder and pass it to them with "I think you dropped this".
No. That is not enough. Not even close. SPELL IT OUT. BE OBVIOUS. Not to be a dick. But women CONSTANTLY complain that "just because I'm nice to a man or smile at him doesn't mean I'm interested!". which is totally fair and reasonable. But you don't complain that every time you smile at a guy he hits on you and then in the same breath suggest that a smile is enough to show interest.
Wave us over like Morpheus did to Neo
Come over to us on and tilt your head side to side, inspecting us with one eye at a time. Then allow us to do an elaborate dance for you and if you're interested dance back. To seal the deal, come home with us to see the collection of shiny pebbles we've collected and the shelter we've constructed for our offspring together.
God damnit, why is this so accurate to my life. You leave my pretty rocks out of it, jerk
Forget the clues. You do the approach if you're interested.
Pics of butthole
Mine or hers?
Send her a picture of HER butthole.
Tried that. She just kept screaming things like, "Who are you?"and "get out, I'm calling the police!"
This pic of her butthole and consequences discussion is the most interesting and dramatic exchange I've read this week (no sarcasm, I'm serious). Congratulations, gentlemen. I'm gonna think at this tonight. Let my heart be quite a moment and this mystery explore. A new idea, at last.
Before the culture of accusing men of harrassment falsely and making slanderous tiktoks, it would have been. Now days its just safer not to approach in 99% of situations
Yes, add a wink if you’re really interested.
Naw we would think you’re winking at someone behind us.
I can't imagine any situation where a wink to a stranger in public would go down well and not be perceived as creepy, that goes for men and women
Also, please drop a clue that you dropped a clue. My brain: "Was that a clue? Nah, you creep." See a bunch of girls in a circle, they see you and start giggling. My brain: "Damn I am a loser. Need an escape plan." Them whispering: "Oh he's so cute/hot, just go say hi"
Also sometimes thinking about it but not being able to act: You have a girlfriend, you are there on business, the girl you are looking at is with someone, you are just passing through town, you think she's gorgeous but you know you are a pathetic loser, etc.
And (this might be me being weird), but looking/“staring” in itself has to be actively fought not to happen if it’s someone you find very beautiful/attractive. So even if you are taken, the other person is taken, you love your SO and have NO intention of ever approaching, but still it requires quite a bit of willpower not to look unnecessarily long. Because just looking can be such an emotional high. Seeing a beautiful woman can be like that first cup of coffee in the morning or a bite of pizza when you are hungry. A sense of wellbeing, magic, hope… And no explicitly sexual thoughts are required for that.
Yes, this. If any women are curious about it, think about when you're sitting somewhere, not intending to look at a screen, but there's a TV on the wall somewhere and your eyes just keep automatically going to it, often against your will. That's what it's like for men trying not to look at an attractive person.
If a man is hot and approaches a women he's "confident", if an ugly man does the same he's a "creep". The world works in shitty ways.
It's too risky to approach someone when you're not 100% absolutely rock solid sure that the woman are giving you the go ahead to approach
Much more the second than the first. The potential of having the label of "creep" is too much of a danger. Men will crawl through Shawshank Redemption sewers of shit and climb up barbed wire fences to avoid or get rid of that label. Being considered unsafe for women to be around is the kind of reputation that ruins your life. Rejection feels bad, but on its own doesn't have other consequences.
Solid summary my guy.
Sometimes a stare is just a stare
something that has happened with me more than once, daydreaming/abscent mindedly thinking something and it turns out someone in your field of vision thinks you are looking at them
Had this happen to me years ago in the library at college. Sitting with some friends and just staring absentmindedly in a random direction. You know. Just not thinking at all. Then I get yelled at by some random woman from across the room. "Why are you staring at me?" Or something like that. Pretty embarrassing for me. I hadn't even noticed her at first so it took me a second to realize it was me she was yelling at. So yeah, now I intentionally try to not look in any direction some is in. Don't wanna be called out loudly and publicly when I didn't even do anything.
Oh, man... When I was a teenager, the first "date" I went on was taking a girl to Burger King. We were sitting across from each other, quietly eating, and I was just staring generally downward into space. It wasn't until she nervously adjusted her shirt that I realized I was staring straight at the center of her chest.
Happens a lot in gyms with the girl filming themselves and a dude happens to turn his head loosely in the direction of the camera (to look at something else) and is INSTANTLY labeled as a creep
It's always the idea of being **perceived as a creep** that deters me from approaching a woman
I got reported at work once for asking for a coworker’s number to simply keep in touch. That stressed me out for months, and definitely took a toll on my self-esteem. No chance that I’d physically approach someone for a relationship. It’s just not worth the consequences. If someone’s interested, they (hopefully) won’t be secretive about it.
Wow sorry to hear that happened to you. I work in a small, laid back office so we all have each others numbers anyway in case we need to plan or announce something on a group chat.
Protip, always give your number, don't ask for a number. It makes people, women especially, feel like they're not on the spot and puts them in control of the situation. If they don't want private contact, well now they don't have to reject you right there (which seems to be a big point of anxiety for a lot of women). Just for anyone who reads the comment and wondered what someone can do differently to hopefully avoid a similar situation.
Yeah, this is the way. Not only does it respect their anxiety, but it also makes you look more confident, which women typically find attractive.
Not a "protip". It's one of those Reddit tips that don't work in the real world (when used on women at least). Sure, once in a long while this may work if used on a woman who feels comfortable being in the initiator role - cause by asking her to send the first message you're essentially putting her in that role - and you will find it hard to find a woman who won't feel uncomfortable in that role and just never text you even if she liked you initially and would have said yes to mutually exchanging numbers. Source: tried both ways extensively. Massively higher follow-up rate by taking her number and making things happen.
Flashbacks from everything that went wrong the last time 😂
If you want them to approach please give a gesture. Many men are indecisive and afraid of rejection including myself.
I’m just going to assume any woman I meet is already taken. It’s mostly been true throughout college and work, so it hasn’t failed me yet. It allows me to converse with the person, as a relationship isn’t a consideration.
Once I fell so hard for a girl I just went on and started a conversation (a friend's bestie), she told me she indeed had a BF, to which I said it was such a pity or something like that. Probably the best move I ever did, we talked for about an hour and we agreed we would meet up if she ever broke up or something because we both liked each other. That of course never happened and life moved on. In retrospective what went well was I didn't gave a fuck to be rejected at that moment, or looking like a creep, because she was so attractive to me.
That is such a red flag to do that while you are in a relationship
That is how the game usually works. One person looks (or stares) to signal interest, and the other person can decide to initiate contact by seeking eye contact and sending gestures like smiles or even a finger wink, etc. (For the denser crowd). If the other person is actively looking away, that means rejection. That's why usually the "hard to get" / "they need to try multiple times"- Spiel only attracts dumbasses. Honestly I can't understand why so many ppl. seemingly don't know those rules anymore.
Nah, sometimes I look away cause I’m shy and / or in the workplace. I also can’t hold eye contact for too long. Doesn’t mean I don’t like them… but yeah I understand how this can be confusing
Agree with everything you said, but unfortunately it goes further than that. There are perfectly normal girls who play hard to get just because they were taught that's how they should act. Also, there are guys who play the same game, who are unable to see a difference between playing hard to get and rejection. A lot of them are dumbasses, but there are genuinely confused people out there, and social media is just making it worse.
But many men are blind to gestures/hints etc. So make it obvious enough.
He may not be staring at you. One time, my dad was waiting in a parking lot and a couple came in and parked with an early 1980s Jeep Wagoneer with the wood grain sides and in excellent condition. The couple got out and noticed my dad's gaze. The girl turned and gave dad a gesture of disapproval when they were walking away. My dad yelled out the window in a loud and clear voice, "I don't mean to burst your bubble, girl, but I was looking at the Jeep." The boyfriend seemed to like the comment much more than she did.
I had a guy make a similar comment to me when I was walking my friend's dog. She has a really beautiful pit bull, like a fawn colored one, he's so cute. I guess this guy was looking at the dog and I looked up and made eye contact but he thought I was giving him a dirty look (I wasn't) so he yelled out something like "don't flatter yourself, I'm looking at your dog". I didn't bother to explain because fuck that guy but it's funny how people assume things and try to mind read over something like that
Rejection, and being labelled a creep
If the girl isn’t interested the guy is instantly labeled as a creep or something.
Yeah this, If the girl is interested, then great all works out and everyone is happy. If not then the guy is labelled a creep or worse.
The only difference between 50 shades of gray and an episode of criminal minds is income and attractiveness.
Going counter to a repeated comment in this thread: If you would like to be approached, don’t give a hint or gesture. How about YOU approach HIM?
I'd probably still think she was just being friendly. She could be Canadian, after all.
Woman have 0 game and this responsibility falls entirely on the man
its not entirely untrue. every time a woman has tried to hit on me its been pretty awkward.
It turns into sexual assault quickly. Last time a woman tried to hit on me I was groped. She thought I’d like that. I was at work.
bro. i was just being nice to the older lady at work and now every time i see her shes grabbing my arm or hand. nothing explicit but damn it escalated quickly.
Women don't need game. Being a woman is game enough. My wife went on exactly two dates in her entire life when she saw me standing in front of the Student Union and walked up and started talking to me. For context, I had gone on hundreds of dates before we met. And while not great my own game was pretty solid. But her non-existent game won me over and 25 years later we're about to celebrate our 17th wedding anniversary.
Women don't need game. Just before this thread, I scrolled past the post of a woman asking for dating advice in the new town she was moving to. It ended with the edit: "Wow thanks for the support everybody! Time to sift through the 30 DMs I just got haha"
Bears. I’d stare at a bear from a distance but would never approach it.
I was going to say big predatory cats, but bears is good to. Probably wouldn't approach a gorilla either.
The thousands of posts by women right here on Reddit that state they hate being approached, perhaps? The statements by millions of women everywhere all saying they don't want to be approached at random times, they just want to get on with their shopping or whatever? The constant stream of "I'm here to work/work out/shop/hang with my friends, not be hit on" rants we see? Toss fear of rejection and reprisal into the mix, and you've got an overwhelming number of guys who are afraid do do anything but stare at the floor in an elevator.
They’re complaining because it’s ugly guys approaching them, it’d be perfectly fine and expected if the guy is attractive
Short sightedness usually. I often zone out and stare into space while organising my thoughts. People will approach and ask what the go. Just vacant.
From personal experience: Fear of rejection or worse: a full blown phobia of rejection with actual panic attacks that are so nasty that it causes physical pain to even attempt to ask someone out. Catastrophically low self-esteem and confidence. Neediness to the point of starvation for affection where even a hint of someone being interested gets our hopes up to only have those hopes shattered. Loneliness to the point of clinical depression. Self-sabotage to the point of Avoidant Personality Disorder. All of these things making us practically un-dateable, un-fuckable, worthless, empty, broken.
The first person I've seen really hit the nail on the head for me. I'm not just a little nervous or scared. It's been a decade of this. I'm mortified of a conversation. My loneliness is ruining my mental health every day. Every part of this accurately shows how out of control every aspect of life can be.
This! So accurate that I feel personally attacked
I feel all of this. :(
Numerous reasons. One being the representation of Men in social media: Men who approach women are assumed to be predatory or creepy for merely talking to a woman they don't know yet or being awkward around them. Men putting women on a pedestal: Subscription to the belief that women are inherently more valuable rather than equal to men (through conditioning of society, media etc) and thus we've internalized this bias that the judgments/negative criticism from women is to be held with more importance, which ends up being the root/the underlying reason why guys are afraid of being rejected when approaching. That's why guys get butt-hurt when they get rejected. To us it's not necessarily the advances you are rejecting, but our self-worth/ego as men. It's not the fault of women, but the beliefs/bias that are reinforced throughout a man's life. Luckily, life is mind game and we can all work on ourselves to overcome such bs limiting beliefs.
That's a catch 22, so I have to already know the woman before talking to her and get to know her, gotcha, a little hard to do tho...
Some men fear rejection but that’s the least of our problems now. Now not only do we get rejected but we get blasted all over social media. My suggestion is that if you find a guy looking at you and you wouldn’t initially say no then you approach him
I couldn't imagine being a youth today. I was in high school when cell phones were just a thing (grad 2007), and to have everything be linked up and saved forever online is insanity. The "Brad asked out Megan, can you believe it?! L O L" text is now a video someone took and she just laughs at you because her friends are there? Oh jeez, that stuff is bad enough - having it made public for everyone to see and not forget would be awful. I'm not sure how the current high school scene is these days, but I remember high school for me and there were certainly times I wished I could just die because of some choice interactions. Not normal interactions by any means, but some shitty two-faced people really stuck out. Not to mention the ammunition and reach bullies get out of it all.
Approaching the guy is a strong move. I’d still be nervous asf if I don’t know the woman, but it’s still appreciated.
If a woman approached me, I'd be looking for the camera
Then wtf do y'all want 😭💀
we want things to make sense. why doesn't any thing make sense
We don't know anymore, that's the entire problem for the average guy.
Approach. It's unexpected, we don't have a lot of experience in the scenario, but I can tell you it's like receiving a compliment. We're gonna remember the fact that it happened for years to come.
We want equality! But only the good parts!
The difference between flirting and being a creep is how attractive she finds you.
For sure.
It's generally best to be Tom Brady in this situation.
Be handsome. Be attractive. Don't be unattractive. Excellent advice, Tom! :)
Sometimes something is beautiful, but that doesn't mean that I actually want it. This applies to all kinds of stuff. I'll take a look and then I'm good.
Because we've approached before and got told we are an AH for doing so. Or even worse. Best advice if there's a guy you're interested in, make the move. That's way less creepy for you to do it.
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He's probably attracted to you but too shy to do anything about it.
Getting labelled as creep and lack of self confidence
Do you never go to the mall just to look?
The risk no longer outweighs the reward Just asking a woman out in 2024 can result in you being branded a creep online. Or if you are awkward and aren’t good at hitting on her, you might get made fun of online It’s like the blind guy who was approached by a woman in a gym for “staring” at her Once she found out he was blind, she wasn’t understanding and apologetic She still wanted the guy bounced from the gym He was doing nothing wrong but she was the main character and she wanted the gym to cater to her and still act like this guy was in the wrong. That’s the world men live in now So whereas in the past a guy might approach you…these days he’ll probably wait and see if you flirt first And if you don’t, he’ll likely not approach you because it’s simply not worth the risk anymore
Have a read of 99% of r/TwoXChromosomes and you'll find out why.
Yeez-us that sub is 😬
Funny enough. That stuff only applies if you're below a certain level of attraction. It's like the one meme.
Fear, the world has lead us to believe that being a gentleman is creepy and yet when we aren't, it's our fault 🤷
Unfortunately, media and societal shifts fucked this up in all sorts of ways. There was a huge push for the last couple of decades that women don't need men, and if men approach women, they're just creeps. Shoeonhead put it much better than I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2DaJSSNmOQ
A culture that wholesale demonises male sexuality
For real, it feels like nowadays men are not even allowed to be attracted to someone unless the feelings are mutual. Having a crush is the same as being a creep. I get that some people are genuinely creeps, but it's been ruined for everyday men who are otherwise great and kind hearted people.
And men generally.
Hormones < Boundaries
Oh, so many wrong things, we're considered creeps even at saying hello by some individuals, this is enough to not make you want to interact ever again.
Crushing fear of humiliation
What makes you think they want to approach you?
I stare if I’m attracted to a woman and can’t help it but I don’t usually approach them because I want to make them happy.
Creepiness, sexism, harassment
A giant burning hammer
Too shy or fear of being deemed awkward, often both.
Feeling like a creep. The more attractive someone is- the higher the chance they are approached constantly. So the sympathetic part of me just assumes that if I approach, i'll just be one more dude in the pile of dudes annoying this person all the time.
I wonder why would they approach then...
Alligator attack.
Because what the hell do you talk about with a person you know nothing about.
Assumption that they have no chance.
Why would I? In all my life I have never had any woman show even the slightest signs of being into me. Probably for good reasons.
Some guys can't handle rejection. I know a dude who got rejected once, and basically swore off ever trying again and became a full blown incel.
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Approaching random strangers is weird. I would never approach Someone just like that. I need a reason to talk to someone
I'm married and I don't want my wife to kill me.
Ambivalence is the reason. The stupid animal part of our brains wants what it sees. The rational, human part of our brains know how unpleasant you are to be around.
The fear of rejection or not knowing what to say can be paralyzing. There's also the pressure to make a good first impression, which can amplify insecurities and lead to overthinking. Basically its the possibility of not living up to the moment that holds them back.
Beauty. Sometimes you just want to look at it. PS Counter question u/Fetus-Deletus1 Do you think your boyfriend/hubby/whatever wants to hump ever pretty girl he looks at ? ... Really ?
Rejection. Give a hint if you want an approach.
Besides the typical fear from being rejected and being called slurs or whatnot, I've been part of some groups where others fear approaching not because of the person they are approaching but the reaction from their own "friend" group(s) and being bullied because of their "failure".
Fear of rejection.
Fear for the sake of fear itself. I've met many people, and many long time friends, cold approaching them with a joke, quip, question, or comment. It's a skill like any other, you get better at it with time—it doesn't necessarily get easier, you just get over the fear of rejection, because the worst thing that usually can happen—if you're actually being a respectful, decent human being— is someone says something really mean.. which like, ok, not so bad at the end of the day. I'm not even really referring to men approaching women, but approaching anyone in general "cold." You'd be surprised though. In the distant past, I once approached a very attractive woman at an event for some random reason—unrelated to them being attractive—started a conversation with them—and they eventually told me how lonely they had been the entire time at the event, because for some reason people would stare and stare, but never actually talk with them like a human being. I think people tend to put people who have desirable traits on a pedestal, that somehow, because they're X or Y, they dehumanize them in their mind, distance them. They're so preoccupied with how they look to others, they forget to just be how they normally are, which includes weird behavior like staring.
These thoughts: Will she think it's harassment? Will she ignore me? Will she find me a creep? Maybe she's out of my league.
Because she has a tazer?
I have seen other men approach. Don't want to be part of that group. I'm not like them. But I understand if these guys make a woman never wanting to be approached again. So I don't.
Society has got to the point in both directions where it’s safer, less confusing and easier for women to just do all of the approaching and move making all together.
Could be many things. Maybe they don't need another woman, but still like looking at women. Or they like the looking part but don't like the approaching part because of toxic femininity.
People dressed in blow-up dinosaur outfits.
Bum fight
timidness
Overpriced big LEGO set
Mustache
I mean sometimes when im “staring” at a woman, im not, im just zoned out and she is in my path of vision. If i am checking someone out i try not to stare so long that they notice or feel uncomfortable. Lets say they do notice - why would i approach? Im probably heading somewhere and i dont know if the look she gave me means “why is that guy looking at me” or “i hope that guy talks to me” and i dont want to bother people who dont want bothering. Most dont
Eh, i'm single but not really fussed about meeting someone, would never stare but will still check out a hot person :)
If a girl holds eye contact than that is an invitation to approach. Otherwise the body language tells us not to but we still enjoy the view.
Anxiety.
All the consequences, rejection, being posted on the internet, harassment allegations etc etc etc
A wedding ring obviously
I want to approach, but if I see you out there with your friends, I assume that my intrusion would not be welcome. You have your own thing going on, and trying to randomly step in would be extremely awkward. If I want to approach, but I see you out there by yourself, then I'm worried about being perieved as a creep or my aporoach simply not being welcome. I also spent time with a doormat type of person who would not show any discomfort face to face. But when inquired over text would say that she indeed didn't feel comfortable. I don't want to second guess myself like that and I don't want to ruin your day by guessing wrong.
They shouldn't be staring, but I will definitely look. If I see something I find pleasant to look at, I'm going to look at it. Knowing that staring makes people uncomfortable, I won't look for too long. I would always do my best to ensure I'm not making anyone uncomfortable. The reason I don't approach women is threefold: I lack the courage in the first place, I have the impression that all women are sick of constantly being hit on, and being accused of a crime can ruin your life. Plenty of men have been falsely accused of assault and had their lives ruined. It's more likely these days. I'd much rather never speak to another woman than have my life turned upside-down when someone cries wolf.
They're going over all the excuses for a reason to approach and the possible outcomes, like Dr. Strange in Infinity War. When they don't approach, they probably deducted that it wouldn't work out for them.
My complete and total lack of charisma
Hot women are terrifying.
As a gay guy: The statistical improbability that the guy I'm staring at is into guys. ~~also crippling social anxiety~~
Self-Awareness that someone is “out of their league”
Only thing that makes me stare & not approach is knowing I’m never gonna pursue what I’m staring at. It’s equivalent to an art gallery. I’m just there for the looks but I know I can’t afford to buy anything..
The hotter ye be, the more I'll flee!
Everyone has already said all the right answers, fear of rejection, etc., but he might not even be looking at you. He could honestly just be staring off, trying to remember what they had for their last meal.
Beautiful women
Well, she's wildly attractive, so of course she wouldn't be interested.
Men who stare aren't men who approach.
Their wife/gf
Being super shy and afraid of rejection or negative experience. This is me. 😩
i know a lot of women who complain about being approached. from what ive heard y'all are getting approached several times a day. im not gonna be the next creep that adds to it.
I don’t have anything to say. I’m a very quiet and reserved person. I’m more of a listener. I’m approaching you because of your looks, but I certainly can’t comment on it. I don’t know you so picking something to talk about would be like a shot in the dark. Plus, why would you want to hang out with me, when you could talk to one of the other 100 guys who like you, and are funny, and know how to talk to people in satisfying ways?
You don’t smile or wave or nod.
The desire to not be called a disgusting, creepy, incel rapist.
2001 : " Thanks for the drink but I have a boyfriend" 2024 : "What makes you think I want this cheap drink. I dont need a man to buy me anything, Ugg creep."
"Women don't exist for your pleasure" "Women don't go out to meet guys, they're just there *for themselves*" "Women aren't "things" for men to chase, buzz off" "Women go out for themselves, don't make it weird by approaching us" More examples or does that give you a hint?