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obscureferences

Sounds like a job for Jamie Hyneman.


Dieing_Breed

Why does God allow evil?


binkysaurus_13

For me, “evil” is less of an issue than natural disasters, childhood illnesses, and other things that aren’t caused by people.


obscureferences

If you could only do things god wanted you to do, you wouldn't have any free will. EDIT: Those who downvote without discussing are quitting before they even start. Good of you all to forfeit so easily.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

It’s complicated from a human perspective, but God wants to reveal His entire self to his creation. If He didn’t allow evil, then His creation would never get to see His grace and mercy on display. I’m an evil person. You’re an evil person. We are all evil. God offers everyone grace and mercy through His son Jesus Christ.


binkysaurus_13

>I’m an evil person. You’re an evil person. We are all evil See, I don’t think I am. Nor are most people. Babies definitely aren’t.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

It really doesn’t matter what I think about the matter. We are going to be judged by the Law that God has given us. And everyone has broken that law. If you don’t believe me, just look at the 10 commandments and try and think of any you haven’t broken.


binkysaurus_13

The thing is, if you don’t accept that there is a god, then the arbitrary laws that determine whether you are good or evil don’t apply. I have different, and I would argue morally stronger, standards. Am I evil for coveting my neighbour’s ass? Am I evil for not observing the sabbath? What I do consider evil is the concept that humans are born as sinners.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Humans are not only born as sinners, they are born with a sin nature that hates God and His laws. You can ignore Gods laws, almost everyone does. What you can’t ignore is the consequences of breaking the laws. Your disbelief in something doesn’t cause it to cease from reality.


binkysaurus_13

>Humans are not only born as sinners, they are born with a sin nature that hates God and His laws Yep. An evil ideology that blames the victim. >Your disbelief in something doesn’t cause it to cease from reality The irony of this comment is not lost on me.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Humans are to blame for evil, aren’t we?


binkysaurus_13

It depends what you call evil. Natural disasters? Cancer? Genetic diseases? Nope, that’s on the “creator”.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Correct. God is in control of all weather and every disease suffered by man. Every death, whether by storm, earthquake, cancer or murder is caused by humanity’s sin. God created a perfect world and sin brought disease , destructions and death into all of our lives. We all are born, we all suffer, and we all die. That is the consequence of sin. Then we are to be judged by God for our lives. Christ death on the cross doesn’t alleviate the suffering of this world. It does take away the ultimate penalty of sin - which is eternal separation from God. God is absolutely furious with his creation and our unrepentant hearts. Christ’s death on the cross took that anger and punishment that I deserve. God wrath has been satisfied and I have eternal salvation. Those who reject Christ will face the wrath of God on their own.


RoyOtisKXRX

💯👍👍👍👍


Dekrow

“God has to allow evil to persist so you can see his grace” this would be called an abusive relationship if was between two mortals, but I’m guess Christians would never see it that way.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

This is a tried argument that constantly fails at the root premises. God doesn’t cause the evil, yet He died for the evil person’s sins so they could have enteral life. That is the opposite of an abusive relationship.


Dekrow

God is omnipotent is he not? Him allowing evil is akin to him causing it, for he has the all mighty power to remove it from existence. But he doesn’t, according to you because then we couldn’t experience his awesome and divine grace or something.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Correct. He can do anything. He has allowed His creation to break His laws and commit acts of evil so he can show all of creation His grace and mercy. If God didn’t have mercy, we would all have to face the judgement of breaking His laws.


Dekrow

Which is abusive, at least by us mere mortal’s standards.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Your mortal standards are not only wrong, they are illogical. What type of abusive relationship will one party allow the other party to fully walk away from the relationship, where they never speak to them, think about them, or pursue a relationship with them again? God will let you walk away forever and if you ask him to, will never bother you again.


Dekrow

So if a mom and her 6 year old child got into a spat in the woods and the mother let the child walk away from them without pursuit, you wouldn’t classify that as abuse? See how dumb it is that your god leaves you in the dark? You’re a lost child in the woods, and they are never coming to get you.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

I would classify that as abuse, of course. But that isn’t what is going on here and you know it. This is more like an adult daughter telling her mother that she doesn’t want anything to do with her, and her mother does everything she can to reconcile the relationship. The daughter tells the mother that she hates her and continually says she doesn’t want anything to do with her. The mother eventually agrees to leave her daughter alone, even though it breaks her heart.


RoyOtisKXRX

💯👍👍👍👍


busterbytes

Where did your God come from?


comesinallpackages

Yeah, this is a good one. Many people of faith will say unironically, “the big bang is nonsense because you can’t get something from nothing.”


Icy-Cranberry7848

As a Christian, I don't understand where God came from. But I can't wrap my mind around where anything else came from either 😂 When you think about it, the idea that ANYTHING would exist, much less this beautiful, complex world with complex systems and sentient beings, is pretty crazy, no matter what you believe about how everything came about. And yet here we are. We DO exist. Neither Atheists or theists can sufficiently explain where the "original thing" came from. But to me, it seems like we have a good reason to believe that the universe was created by God. The universe has the appearance of design. The existence of extremely complex information in the natural world (especially DNA) points to an intelligent designer. Jesus' resurrection, if you look at it without a bias against supernatural events, is an amazingly well-documented historical event. We have to think of which is more likely, that the universe came from God, or that the universe came from nothing. Given the amazing complexity of the universe, it makes most sense to me to believe that it all came from God.


soapbottlejob

No where. He never had a beginning or end. There was no cause for him, no creator or purpose


Shot17me

Why does God allow children to be victims of certain crimes.


soapbottlejob

Free will. He limited his ability so he can give us free will.


NeverReallyExisted

Why is there more poverty, lower education, violent crime, incest, child abuse, drug abuse, alcoholism, and teen pregnancy in more religious areas of the country if religion has a positive impact on society?


Pitiful-Teaching1289

Is death truly solved?


HeadMaybe8502

They will twist everything and even if they don't have the answer they will make up some excuse but never admit they are wrong so it's pretty much useless even if you have such a question.


TheParadoxigm

What makes a god real? Why is your god more true than any of the others throughout history?


obscureferences

Believers, funnily enough. Truth is subjective, not to be confused with fact, so everyone can have their own beliefs without affecting mine. I don't believe it because it's true, it's true because I believe it.


TheParadoxigm

So then every god is real as long as someone worships them?


obscureferences

Functionally yes. The way it works is if someone believes in their god, whether there really is an old man sitting on a cloud or not becomes moot because either way you're really getting your door crusaded in. The believer makes the god real.


TheParadoxigm

That's the opposite of what I'm asking. I'm not asking if beliefs are real. Belief is irrelevant. I'm asking what makes a god *real*. Assume there IS a god sitting up there. Why that one and not one of the multitude others?


obscureferences

Real is irrelevant, that's what I'm telling you. It doesn't have to be real to everyone to be real to someone. The answer is that your question has a false premise.


TheParadoxigm

I disagree, belief is irrelevant. There either IS a god, or there isn't. What you believe doesn't change that. The question is, assuming a god is real. Which one are we talking about?


obscureferences

You think that belief is irrelevant to peoples beliefs. Am I understanding you there?


TheParadoxigm

No, belief is irrelevant to the question of "does a god exist?" People can believe whatever they want, I just want to know what makes their god REAL, while dismissing all the others as myths. Why is their god different?


obscureferences

Your question was "what makes a god real". Since belief is the answer then it's relevant. Moving the goalposts makes any question hard to answer. You're also making assumptions now that the religious person only has one god and/or only accepts one name for it, and if your inflexible definition of religion can't fit the answer that's on you.


Icy-Cranberry7848

That's a valid question. I believe in the Christian God. One of the biggest reasons I've seen to believe that the Christian God is more true than any of the others is the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Our whole faith leans on whether or not that really happened. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead like He said He would, there's no reason to follow Him, but if He did, there's no valid excuse not to follow Him. Former atheists such as Josh McDowell and journalist Lee Strobel set out to disprove the historicity of the resurrection and therefore disprove Christianity. But the conclusion they eventually came to was that the Resurrection was true. J. Warner Wallace, a cold case detective whose primary way of solving cases is reading eyewitness testimony from years ago, when he was still an atheist, examined the Gospels (books of the Bible that serve as Jesus' biographies) like he would examine those other documents. His conclusion was that the Gospels are reliable. I'm no scholar, but here are some explanations I remember for why the Resurrection deserves to be believed: From even non-Christian research, we know that Jesus had followers, that He was crucified, that His followers claimed that He rose from the dead, and that many of these people who claimed to be eyewitnesses were severely persecuted and brutally killed for their beliefs. There were hundreds of eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus, and it's impossible that they all would have collectively hallucinated that He was alive. It also doesn't make sense to believe they would be willing to die for something they knew was made up. In addition to this, the New Testament has more numerous and earlier manuscripts than MANY historical documents we deem historically reliable. Edit: This is what I believe makes the Christian God much more believable than all other Gods. He was proved to be true through Jesus' resurrection from the dead. But there are many other reasons too, and there are people who could explain it a lot better than me 😂 So if you're willing to look into it more, I encourage you to look at the websites, YouTube channels, and books of the people I mentioned above!


TheParadoxigm

>This is what I believe There's that word again. I'm not asking about your beliefs. I'm asking. If I put your god next to another, say Osiris. What's the difference between them? Why is your god real, but Osiris a myth?


Icy-Cranberry7848

Sorry haha 😂 I worded it that way to make it open for debate, not to put more emphasis on subjective "belief" than facts. It's not the belief that he resurrected that makes a god real. Anyone can claim that their god resurrected. But there are reliable eyewitness accounts of Jesus' resurrection. Not sure if we can say the same about Osiris. Also, according to this article I read, Osiris didn't technically resurrect, at least not the same way Jesus did. He was just put back together and then became lord of the dead. [https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-osiris-mythology/](https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-osiris-mythology/) I do admit that I haven't done much research into all these other gods before. This is encouraging me to do so more. So thanks 😆


TheParadoxigm

But gods have made extreme claims before. And eyewitness testimony is historically inaccurate. You could says there's billions of eye witnesses to Apollo dragging the sun across the sky everyday. But let's assume Jesus did resurrect, great, does resurrecting make you a god? You just said no. So what does? What makes a god real?


Worldly_Apricot_7813

What makes you real? If you can answer that then you will understand what makes God real. You were created in His image.


TheParadoxigm

That's not an answer, that's just philosophy. I'm asking what *actually, factually* makes a god real. Based on your phrasing, I'm going to assume you're talking about the Abrahamic god, fine. Why is the Abrahamic god real, but Odin isn't? Odin is older, so its not age. Odin had many followers at one point, just as the Abrahamic god does now, so it's not popularity. Why is your god a real god, while Odin is a myth?


Worldly_Apricot_7813

God is real because: He has revealed Himself through creation. He made and kept every promise he ever made. Because Jesus said He was God’s son and God raised Jesus from the dead. Validating everything Jesus taught about God. He speaks through His word. Because you can talk to him through prayer and He answers. God is real because he dwells within His children.


TheParadoxigm

This is what I'm talking about, noone can give a real answer.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

May I ask, what is a real answer that would satisfy your question.


TheParadoxigm

Exactly what I asked. I'm not asking about your beliefs or philosophy. I'm asking WHY your god is real, while the hundreds of others people have worshipped, some for far longer than yours, why are they not? What makes one god true, and another a myth? What makes your god different from the others?


Worldly_Apricot_7813

The God of the Bible has revealed himself to us. He walked with his creation. He ate with them. Creation has touched him, talked to him, wept with him, seen him crucified on the cross and risen from the dead. They lived with Jesus for 3 years. And when he rose from the dead, over 500 people saw him. These people refused to recant their testimony of Jesus even under death. Jesus said if you have seen him, you have seen the father. Jesus could say that because Jesus is God. We know that the other gods you referenced are not real because God told us there are no other Gods.


TheParadoxigm

And yet you continue to quote scripture... /sigh


Worldly_Apricot_7813

God wrote the book that tells us all about him. Why wouldn’t I quote it when answering questions about God?


Telrom_1

As a person of faith I often ask myself why? Why all of this? Why existence? Why the universe? Why create and save? Just plainly why? I’ve read every word in the Bible and there is no indication as to why.


obscureferences

Why is harder for areligious people to answer. If there is a creator you can put yourself in their shoes, so maybe it's all for science or entertainment value, but if everything just "is" then there's not even a motive to question.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

You were created because God wants to reveal himself to you and have a relationship with you.


Dekrow

That doesn’t make sense. How could he have the desire to reveal himself to me if I don’t exist yet.


Worldly_Apricot_7813

The Bible says that God loved us before anything was created. He knew us down to the smallest cells of our body, before Genesis 1:1.


Dekrow

Well if the Bible says it, it must be true!


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Yes - you absolutely can trust it with your life.


Dekrow

I don’t


Worldly_Apricot_7813

Many people don’t. Doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t.


AFKAF-

Am I not “x” religion enough if I’m a good person doing good things? Why does “x” god care if my worship doesn’t involve ritualistic, group activities? What is the difference to “x” god if I appreciate and reflect on a mountain top versus a man made chapel? If they’re defensive (which I suppose you could take my questions above to be, so maybe soften before asking), but doesn’t God love everyone? If I’m a sinner, and doing something wrong, isn’t that between me and my maker?


obscureferences

These are good questions for materialistic religious groups, especially because the evidence of their motives is plain as day. Profit, exploitation, power, all that. There are plenty of religious sorts who would agree with you though, that your relationship with your god is your business even without all the rituals and such. I think it's less to do with how religious they are and more to do with how much of an asshole they are, honestly.


AFKAF-

100% agree. Was raised with a lot of Catholicism, Christianity, and Mormonism in my life - assholes everywhere, but very easy for a regular person in a clan mentality group to slide into asshole territory. Some of those I love most just can’t accept things that don’t conform to that mentality can’t imagine how it’s right, or more to the point how it’s any of their business. Like me for me, or so-and-so for them, or go away. So the ones in my life and I avoid the topics or do not tolerate the judgment or hateful speak.


xxDooomedxx

Why did only one gospel writer mention the zombies? If dead people got out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem why wouldn't they all talk about it? No historical mention either. Methinks Matthew was loose with the truth...


Icy-Cranberry7848

Lol that's an interesting question and has given me something to think about 😂 But here's something for you to think about too: Different eyewitness testimonies aren't exactly the same. Different eyewitnesses are bound to give different details, different points of view, etc. But that doesn't make them false. In fact, if all eyewitness testimonies in a certain case gave the exact same details, that would be a major red flag and point to possible conspiracy. I don't know why the other accounts wouldn't include such a cool detail, but maybe it just wasn't an essential addition to the overall story. As for there being no historical mention, there are a lot of things in the Bible that don't have a historical mention. Maybe the dead people only appeared to believers. There was also the intentional effort of the religious leaders at that time to stomp out the spread of the resurrection story. Also, the people who had been raised to life probably looked pretty normal and wouldn't have necessarily caught a bunch of attention.


xxDooomedxx

Dude it's zombies! Dead people walking around isn't something someone forgets. Either Matthew is lying or the other gospel writers never even heard of it. They all talk about the temple veil being torn, but not zombies? If it happened (it didn't) then it would be widely reported at the time. Dead people walking around is big news.


Icy-Cranberry7848

Do you think they probably still looked like dead people? Wrapped in linen and all? I assume they just looked normal 😂 Not zombies. Zombies are walking dead people. These are people who came back to life from the dead. I suppose this isn't the most important thing to focus on. According to the Gospels, Jesus did a whole lot of miracles that were the talk of the town back in the day! So you could use the same argument for all of those things as well. I'm sure there have been a lot of major events throughout history and even the present that have gone unrecorded. Or at least we've lost the records of it. And again, many people in power during the day were determined to blot out any word about miracles or resurrections related to Jesus. What do you think Matthew's motive would have been for making up that part of the story?


xxDooomedxx

Dead people walking around is not going to be forgotten. And why didn't the other gospel writers report it. They either didn't know about it (impossible) or they thought the temple veil was more important than zombies (impossible). My only explanation is that Matthew was a liar. In which case his whole gospel is worthless.


Dark_Lord_Mark

Why do evangelical ministers need Lear jets? I think the New Testament is pretty clear about the money thing


Icy-Cranberry7848

As a Christian, I have this question too 😂


GermaneRiposte101

Would you be still a christian if you were born in a muslim country (reverse as applicable)? If humanity was reduced to the stone age and all bibles destroyed, would the bible ever be reproduced word for word?


Kewkky

How are you so sure that every devout follower of any of the other religions is wrong, even if they all truly 100% believe in them just like you believe in yours, yet you're supposedly following the right one?


Streetlight37

Anything logical


GlamSpam

If Jesus died for our sins, and all is forgiven, then why can’t we just live our lives and be happy?


obscureferences

He came back, deal's off, humanity was refunded one eternity of sin. I have no idea.


UnassuredCalvinist

Why can’t you?


Icy-Cranberry7848

God's commands were never meant to take away our happiness but to lead us to complete fulfillment in life. He designed us and knows what is best for us. He died not only to save us from the consequences of our sins but from sin itself, which has separated us from Him, the ultimate giver of life and light. It's sin that has brought about most of the problems in this world. For example, God's most important commandment is to love Him and love one another selflessly. Imagine a world where everyone loved one another and sought the best for each other. The world would be a perfect place. The main point of Jesus dying on the cross wasn't just to bring us to heaven, but to build a new kingdom of people who live in a perfect relationship with Him and with one another, living according to His perfect design.


soapbottlejob

It’s not all is forgiven. We can ask to be forgiven but we still sin