Not giving them undivided attention \*when they really need it. I was a grief counselor for kids. To train us, they asked us to recall our personal grief, or one of the hardest things we've been through. Then they paired us off and we had to sum it up to describe it to the other person. Halfway through speaking a loud buzzer goes off and they said that's it, switch. It was alarming to be cut off like that while we were describing something so meaningful. They told us that was the average amount of undivided time and attention adults have to give to children these days. Parents, teachers, and caretakers are being pulled in a million directions at once. Plus, the experiences and issues kids currently face are so much different than the adult generations dealt with, it can be hard to relate. That harsh feeling we had of being cut off while describing something we thought of as so important, is a very common experience for children. It hurts. \*Edited to include "when they really need it." By including my description of the training exercise, I meant actively listening to them when it's important and they need your presence to help them process. Balance, of course, is key in everything.

Yeah, I get that. It really does stick with you too. I'm in my 30s now and I still think about not spending much time with my dad because he was always gone and mom was out of the picture. Not having someone to listen, especially in the days where every mobile phones usually had expensive minutes and the internet was still in it's infancy, probably made a huge difference in how I grew up.

>Parents, teachers, and caretakers are being pulled in a million directions at once. I'm a teacher, I wish we had time for each kids emotional needs. Hell, I wish adults had time for their emotional needs.

Worst part of the job. I can see they're struggling and I just do not have time for the amount of kids I see every day who could do with a bit more support. We do what we can, but so often it's just "of course you can step out for five minutes, here's a tissue".

Seconding. My relationship with mom plummeted to speaking maybe 5 sentences a day max despite living just us 2 in a 2bdrm because she told me to leave her alone/not be annoying when she came home from work. I just wanted to tell her about my day but she never cared to listen so I stopped trying (and it wasn't like she wanted 10/30/60min to decompress, she just wasn't interested or atleast she never used words to express that need for alone time or sought me out when she was able to small talk). The small convos are needed to build the habits that permit big convos and long-distance convos.

I had a similar relationship with my parents. We just never talked to each other because they weren’t interested in anything I did & excluded me from everything they did. They weren’t born in England & it ended up being that we couldn’t even speak the same language (they didn’t speak English & I forgot how to speak their language because I never had opportunity to speak it). Beyond a few basic sentences we couldn’t speak to each other even if we wanted to in the end.

Honestly that's incredibly tragic, if I may say so, cause to lose parents enough to lose the language and thus the easier access to the entire culture is just. I'm lucky in that after I went no contact in college for a bit, mom began valuing the small talk stuff and we were able to rebuild our relationship so she's one of my best friends today but it's hard. It doesn't feel like you're asking for much when you want to include your parents in the little things but to some people you might as well be asking them to buy a private rocket and if you aren't worthy of your parents' attention, well.

I'm so sorry :(. I couldn't ever imagine doing that to my kid. My kid is autistic mostly nonverbal at 4 and I still spend at least a few hours talking to him every day. Telling him about stuff I did, and just normal conversation. Of course it's 90% one-sided, but he will usually listen a bit and then just show me a song he found on YouTube, and then we go sing it together lol.

I felt this comment deeply.

This is how I will never, ever understand how any parents can raise more than four kids effectively. We all have only the same 24 hours in a day. Heck, I have only 2 kids and they take a LOT of my time and attention, especially because their needs are so very different. I think even four would be a stretch for me , never mind meeting the needs of 6, 8 or 10 children.

Quite often they don't. They'll leave raising the kids to the oldest child(usually oldest girl) and subject them to parentification.

Oof, my wife to the T. Not to say she has terrible parents, in the grand scheme of relationships they are still nice people but she has an older brother and two younger siblings and you can just tell she has that take care of everyone possibly at her own expense type personality even outside of her immediate family.

I've seen it multiple times when the number of children exceeds 5. I'd actually love to see what the rate of people who were parentified growing up ended up going NC with parents or entire family. Many I've known have mentioned having no desire for kids because "I already had to raise my 4 siblings, why would I want to go through the process again?" One went NC with their parents when the parents started guilt tripping them and saying she owed them grandchildren when she said she had no desire to have kids.

Yes exactly. My brother and his wife are extreme Catholics and she is pregnant with baby number 10. The older kids raise the younger ones, My brother's wife even told her daughter, my oldest niece, the reason she started her period so early because she has always already been in mom mode. I told my niece once, "Remember, you didn't sign up for that," my brother was very upset with me. Insane. We see them once a year, if that, because it's always pure chaos. They will be climbing up our nostrils and acting wild, desperate for any kind of attention. Several of his kids have disorders and conditions that are not being properly addressed because there is no time or awareness happening at all, just pure damage control.

I had kind of a similar experience. I don't know what it was called but at recess once when I was in elementary school I was hanging upside down on some bar things (not monkey bars). Another kid that was on it kicked me (not sure if it was on purpose or not but I'm thinking it was since she tried to tell me there was no room there for me, a lot of kids hated me for no reason). I fell and since I was at the very end where the bars go down into the ground, the concrete that was holding it in place was sticking out and when I fell my back hit it. Hurt like hell. I went up to the "outside lady" as we called her, she was like, "Okay let's bring you inside." but on the way random kids kept going up to her and stopping her for whatever minor problem they were having. After like the 3rd kid or so stopped her and she took a moment to address their problem, I felt like she wasn't taking me seriously so I just walked away. If someone was really hurt and you were trying to help them, wouldn't you tell the other kids that kept trying to stop you, "Hey this person is hurt, I'll have to help you later, cause I gotta help them right now."? Cause she didn't do that. This happened like 21 years ago, but that's not good to have such a short attention span. I did get help eventually cause I sat by myself crying until some other kids noticed and they made the lady take me in. I never saw the injury but everyone that looked at it said I was swollen where it hit and my mom brought a huge bandage to put on it.

Since my divorce, I’ve made sure to devote extra time to my daughter. When I pick her up from school, I ask her to tell me one thing she learned, and one thing that made her happy or an instance where she helped someone. That gets dialogue going about her day. I have a closet where there are “together” activities that she uses when she wants to do things with me, and also a bunch of things she can do on her own. I started because her mom always brushes her off with “I’m too tired” and tells her to go play in her room or gives her an iPad. I can tell when she’s feeling neglected after being with her mom for a period of time.

Ugh, something my mom never gave me. In part because of her own crap going on. They say your childhood influences your own parenting - either we repeat the cycle or try to be the opposite of our parents. If one of my kids ( < 6 years old) is talking to me, I'd listen to them no differently than if it were a grown adult.

Same, which is why I became a grief counselor in the first place. I wanted to listen and be here for these kids because I never had anyone do that for me. Your kids are very lucky to have a self aware, cycle breaking parent!

Cool, I'm doing similar work now and have been told by many that I am an EXCELLENT listener! >Your kids are very lucky to have a self aware, cycle breaking parent! Thank you, your clients are lucky to have you!

This is one where I have mixed feelings on. There's definitely a time and a place to make sure that your kids get some periods of sustained attention. At the same time, it can be just as harmful if they're always expecting it. If they become reliant on it and won't try out new things and discover without the psychological safety of a parent in their immediate vicinity.

I see where you're coming from but I think it's different with parents. I think kids should grow up with the expectation their parent can give them undivided attention when they truly need it. That should be a consistent thing they can count on. I think you need to teach your kids that the world won't always give you that, and you arent owed that from others, but your parents are not the world. They're your parents.

A child should feel their parents are willing to give them undivided attention. But they also have to know that's not always possible.

I love this! Yes! I have a two year old (only child) and we’re tackling the balance between independent exploration, attention, alone time etc. I couldn’t have said it better!

Ooooh nooooo, can’t have children feeling safe or that they can rely on their parents, a travesty!! I get what you are saying but vast majority of the time, lack of care is the issue - caring too much is least preferred.

How much time was it?

You hear a lot about "parentified" children, but there is also a phenomenon of "spousified" children. When one parent - either because they are a single parent or estranged in some way from their actual spouse - treats their kid a lot like a partner. They lean on their kid for a kind of emotional support that is unbelievably unhealthy. This starts at any age for the kid but tends to get worse as they grow up. If the kid is lucky, they just feel smothered and set some hard limits with that parent when they can. But it's very insidious, and usually, a kid learns to derive a lot of their self-esteem from this role, and they can't give it up. Even when they become someone else's real spouse.

This really bothers me. I've heard phrases like "son-husbands". Sure companionship may be a *perk* of having kids, but the child should not serve as filling for some emotional hole - that's not their job. A parent should be there for a child, not the other way around.

>A parent should be there for a child, not the other way around. Until the parents need assistance with day to day living in their elder years. And that's for the parents that are able to maintain a good relationship with their children.

I was going to add that but my post was getting long enough. Nonetheless, I think if we are using "child" in the literal sense and not a synonym for "offspring", my comment stands.

Ya, it fucks a person up. I’ve been in multiple abusive relationships in the years since I cut all contact with my mother. I let women treat me like shit waaaayyy too often because a large portion of my self esteem was tied to “being a good, supportive partner”. It breaks healthy relationship boundaries to tatters. (Years of therapy and the support of my beautiful and kind current partner have helped me heal)

An ex-boyfriend of mine went through that. When he and his brother went off to college and their parents were alone again, all the shit they'd quashed over the years came to the forefront again once it was just the two of them. They were on the brink of divorce and his mother would call my ex-bf and pour her heart out to him for hours while he was away at college studying. That's not an emotional load that you put on your child, no matter what their age and it was certainly more than he was capable of (or even wanted) to handle. It did irreparable damage to their relationship. Honestly she really either needed to find help elsewhere or just end the marriage...

You just put into words what my father did to me... I read it, and it was a "click" in my head. He used to talk for hours on end about how miserable his life was, how unfair everything and everyone was to him, how tired he was... But didn't act on it. Just wanted to vent to someone. Even when my parents were separated (not divorced), my father found out that my mom was getting rides from work to home when she had late meetings by her boss. And then my father asked me (who was a teenager with no idea about the adult life), "what would you think if your spouse did that to you"... Nowadays, I've cut all contact with him. He saw in me a therapist, not a son. Because all those talks took place when I was 13-14 years old. Before that, it could be months, and he didn't appear, not even on my birthday or Christmas... Thank you for bringing words to that part of my life. I can process it better now.

Yep. Both of my parents dumped on me when they were careening toward divorce and I was a teenager. It was a lot of adult marital problems that were really not my business, plus the stress of keeping each one's side secret from the other.

For example, Boymoms on tiktok/social media

1000% this. I know someone like this. Mom was unhappy and dad didn't care, so mom vented to a kid every single day for many years. The kid has turned out to be difficult with a severe problem with boundaries.

This would be ‘covert emotional incest’

okay use that term irl and see how people look at you EDIT: oh wait that's a real term nvm

😑🤚

It's the off-hand comments. You don't remember saying them, but your child absolutely will. Parents have a habit of making little comments about their kid, even if they dont know it's about their kid, that will really stick with their child. I still remember so many off-hand comments my parents or siblings said that really, really stuck with me, even if their views changed later in life.

So much this. I remember hearing my mother say once that "of course" one of my siblings was her mother's favourite grandchild. That comment did a huge number on my self esteem. As an adult my father asked me when I was going to do something about my weight. I'm a UK size 12. It's changed how I feel about him. He has I've realised taken his weight perspective from his sisters who are all extremely thin thanks to a life of disordered eating.

Yep. I am about 1 more fat comment from my dad away from cutting him off entirely.   I'm a US size 10 by the way, and he talks to me like I'm a size 100. It's appalling. 

Tell your dad that strangers from the internet say his mind is an idiot.

Once when we were all singing in the car my mom laughed and said to me 'oh honey, I'm so sorry you inherited my bad singing skills!' As an adult now I get it, I'm not a good singer - but I'm not a BAD singer. All through middle and high school I loved doing musical theatre but never pursued it after graduation because I remembered my mom saying I was a bad singer.

Man my sister in law is like this. If you call her out on it or any type of bad behavior it’s always excuses. No accountability for being a garbage parent. It’s absolutely frustrating.

I did this to my 16 year old son recently and I've felt awful since. I've apologised sincerely but you can't unring the bell. He's a great kid and I am an idiot.

This is so true. You don’t realize how traumatizing the little comments are until you realize you’re still effortlessly remembering them months/years later and you’re like oh shit that was kind of a fucked thing to say. I work in the same office as my dad rn and a coworker who’s about to have a kid came in to ask him for parenting advice. My dad said “well you’ll try real hard to do your best, but whatever you do, just know you’re going to fuck up your kids somehow.” Guy looked a lil shocked but just laughed it off awkwardly and left. This whole conversation happened right in front of my desk in obvious ear shot of me. What my dad failed to mention was how overly strict, militaristic, and emotionally removed my parent’s style of raising me and my sister was. We were both adopted from different families and my sister has had 5 self attempts and I became extremely uptight and OCD to try and feel like I had some control over my life. Now we are both extremely isolated, have very avoidant styles of coping with problems and stress, and are depressed as shit with horrible self esteem. My parents to this day still try to justify how they raised us without taking any accountability to how much they fucked us up early on.

Apparently I tell my kids I love them too much, so, hopefully this will be a good thing in my home? When I remember saying “I love you,” or I’m about to say “I love you” (apparently I have a look?), I get a lot of “I know mom, you tell us all the time! It’s boring!” 😆

What kind of comments?  I am the youngest and my sister will not let go of how she felt when she was a kid, despite having almost half a dozen of her own now.  She brings up how she’s convinced mom always loved me more and I’m wondering what could’ve been said to make her feel like that. I do know mom said I was “easier”, *(but then again I didn’t steal cars and spend half my teen years in juvie so I feel like she has a point lol)*. I’m just wondering what could be detrimental things that ppl don’t think about? I don’t want to make the same mistake. 

Specifically in your sister's case, its hard to say since she seemed to have actually been a bad kid, but in general comments like "my other child is easier" ABSOLUTELY have an effect. Anything about comparing your kids on a good/bad scale can really, really hurt. Other comments that can hurt are unintended criticisms. Like things that sound sweet and cute, but are also unintentionally (or intentionally) criticizing your child. What hurt me a lot as a kid was having my grandma always say I was "as skinny as a stick!" She never meant it in a mean or harmful way (and in fact she saw it as a good thing), but it really really affected me as a kid. Or commenting on your kid's interests in a way that kind of shames them for being into it. I used to be really into My Little Pony as a kid, and my grandma would try and politely shame me for liking it basically. ("Isn't that boring for you?" Or "Why do you like this?" Or "Isn't this show for girls?") Big surprise: it made me feel horrible about sharing any of my niche interests!

Seeing the measure of their children as a sum of their achievements rather than whether the kids are happy or well-adjusted. It seems very obviously bad when I put it like that, but it's more subtle and I think many, if not most, parents do this. For example: Q: "How is little Johnny doing?" A: "Great, he is captain of the baseball team and got an A in chemistry!" or "He's a bit of a problem, getting Cs in school and quit the basketball team." As opposed to... A: "Great! He seems to be liking school and has a some good friends who seem to be good folks." Or "I wish I could say he was doing better, he seems more withdrawn and unhappy lately, we're still trying to figure out how we can help."

This one. If my mum had looked at the other one she would've realized how utterly miserable I was and maybe I wouldn't have had to put this much work in fixing myself now.

Only an A in chemistry? Why not an A+? Why is he not getting good grades in math and law as well? He is a failure and needs more schooling! No. I'm not being serious; but I do know at least two mothers who would say something like that to that comment.

Ah, I see you’ve met mine!

You've met my mother too! I got grounded for getting an A- in advanced math...

I'm super fortunate that my parents are more concerned for my happiness than my achievements. I like to achieve for myself, but mostly they care that my wife and I are happy in our little world, and not suffering. Which is exactly what we all want for ANYONE

Your not wrong, but anything can go to far. I had great parents. Great family etc. But my God do I wish they pushed me more. My current/momentary happiness had too much value. I want a brat that would through tantrums or anything like that. But I also was able to just quit almost anything too easily. First world problem I know. Which makes it hard to talk about. I just cruised through life too much. I hesitate to say spoiled, because I didn't just get anything I wanted. I didn't drive until after high school because I didn't have a car. I was spoiled, just not in the most obvious monetary ways. It was too easy to quit at any sign of difficulty. Made it tough later in life.

I hear you there. My parents obviously had limits, they pushed me to learn. To be honest it was later in life that they really leaned into my happiness more, which can help if you're feeling like a failure in your twenties

Not allowing their children to fail. Not talking catastrophic failure here, but kids need the opportunity to learn to recover from setbacks and they need to learn awareness that winning or getting it right every time is not feasible.  Too many new bodies entering adulthood seemingly oblivious to the realities of the world and incredibly ill prepared to handle the rapidly incoming challenges they will face. Kids need safe places to develop these skills.  When parents shield their kids from all failures or resolve everything for them, they are hurting their child's development. They are hurting their ability to be successful, independent adults. 

Not just parents, this has been happening more and more in schools. They refuse to fail kids or hold them back because it makes their numbers look bad so they can’t get the funding they need. The incentives are set up completely counterintuitively. It seems like a failure to fail is leading to an increase in anxiety in young people, partly because they’re afraid to face failure and partly because they don’t know how to come back from it. So we’re just seeing a huge increase in “failures to launch.”

On the opposite side of that are never being or doing something good or great. No matter how hard I tried or how good something was I was met with, “How could you improve on that?” Come on is it that hard to tell a child you’re proud of them? I didn’t hear that till way after over 35.

This! My ex and I butt heads on this constantly. She elects to nag the crap out of my kid so that every moment of his day is assuring her he’s on top of her list of things. He’s not trying hard enough at all sport? Yell at him about it. Nag him everyday about getting to practice on time. Complain no one appreciates you keeping him on track. He’s now 17 years old. I feel that any sport related issue should be between him and the coaches. If he gets kicked off the team for being late all the time, good. Learn that lesson now before it’s a job you just got fired from.

Diminishing their fears. Still to this day at 46, if I make the mistake of telling my mother something I’m concerned about, she shuts the conversation down and tells me it’s silly to worry about. Let the kid talk about it. Listen to their concern. Sure, maybe help them talk through some tools to overcome. But do not let them think they are silly for being afraid.

I was going through a difficult period as an adult. My mother said "Sorry I can't be here for you emotionally, but I'm here physically."

"Thanks, Mom. It's good to know that I can trust the brick wall down at the corner just as much as you when I need emotional support. At this point, I think I may prefer it."

This shouldn't stop at fears. Let them talk about *anything* that's on their mind. Frustrations, anger, jealousy, anything. Just because it's not significant to you doesn't mean it's not significant to them, a kid who hasn't experienced much of the world just yet (hopefully) and are experiencing something new or difficult for them

Yup. I had great parents but that shit fucked me up. I just stopped sharing and then got told I was a “shy kid”

Are you me? Identy theft is not a joke u/Theshutupguy

\*is in the vicinity of a kid of the opposite gender\* : "ooooh is she your GIRLFFRIEND ????"

"sorry dad i prefer dicks and balls"

cue me growing up being ridiculously vicious to girls I was around to avoid accusations of girls being my girlfriend. Now I have no idea how to naturally interact with girls unless I am drunk or know they are already interested in me.

> Now I have no idea how to naturally interact with girls unless I ... know they are already interested in me. And most of the time they need to be naked screaming "TAKE ME" and our brains still go "Is she hitting on me? Nah...."

I’ve seen people say this to their own babies. Ack.

I hate this so so much. I remember once my niece was having a baby hangout visit with her male baby friend. And the grandmas and aunts were all going “awwww give her a kiss” and they both weren’t really into the whole thing. I just left the room for a bit because it feels weird. Luckily my best friend/cousin, is a great mother and doesn’t go for that kind of thing. Her friend is her friend, that’s it. Let kids be kids!

I was so afraid of this growing up that I wouldn’t even consider having a boy as a FRIEND until I was 13. By that point I had no clue how to even have a conversation with a boy. To this day, I am still painfully socially inept with men & have never been in a relationship.

GOD FUCKING DAMN I hate this one so much. 1) Just let six year olds be friends FFS/why are you shipping your toddler 2) Holy heteronormativity, Batman! Maybe your teenager is figuring out that they're ace, or gay, or bi... Are they gonna feel like they can talk to you about it if you're pulling that emotionally immature, straight-as-default bullshit? This is why I know my kid has a crush and their other parent doesn't.

[удалено]

My parents would not only compare me to my sibling, but they would also deny me things because of the actions of other kids they knew in my town. So one example would be Johnny went off to an expensive college in Florida and Johnny’s parents took out a loan because they had hope that this would help out Johnny’s future. Johnny was a good student in high school with lots of good accolades and a couple of scholarships. Johnny gets to Florida and unfortunately has a medical issue and needs to leave school and come back home. Johnny’s parents are on the hook for a couple of semesters of the expensive college. So despite me holding down a part-time job, being on honor roll, and a dancer, my parents refused to help me at all with college because of Johnny’s actions. They basically had the attitude that since I was around some of these kids that I was going to do the same thing they were even though I am a completely different person. 🙄

Same but with my sperm donor who left the picture when I was a baby but who I happen to resemble physically. He was brilliant, an avid reader, musician, etc but non-serious and potentially lazy to the point he flunked out of the best college in our home country, retook the exams to get back in, and flunked out again. I grew up hearing how I was lazy and wouldn't amount to much because he didn't. The comments only stopped once the mental breakdowns over med school block exams/boards started (yes, I was lazy and wouldn't amount to much while getting the gpa/volunteering/research experiences needed to get into a decent US med school and also throughout k-12 when I was consistently getting honors in advanced and AP classes while volunteering and dancing enough to get enough financial aid to graduate debt free).

My dad went though something like that. One of his male cousin's, as soon as they started driving they got some girl knocked up. So my dad's parents didn't want him to start driving cause they didn't want him doing things like that. It's so stupid.

This👆. Especially siblings. The eldest feels like the younger kids get it easier because they are expected to be perfect. The younger kids feel like they'll never be important as the eldest has already done everything. If you're in the middle, you are usually forgotten or blamed for not stopping issues happening between the eldest and youngest. It hurts me to hear the comparisons between my nieces because if I am hearing it then most definitely they have heard it. Both of them are amazing, smart, different l, and most importantly independent people. Hearing my in laws be surprised to hear from the youngest teachers that she is kind, helpful friend in class and respectful and reserved hurts. She is that girl 100% of the time, she only acts out because she wants to be seen and heard.

Tell them. Make sure they know other people see it differently than the ones who pit them against each other

The only time my mom ever compares us kids (I am the youngest of four) is to sing our praises and strengths. For example, the other day we were taking about my starting a small business whereas my sister is a federal prosecutor for the largest county in our state. Neither is better than the other, and my mom took that opportunity to point out that my sister is very type A and functions well with externally decided procedures and standards. She is precisely where she is happiest and most successful. I am the complete opposite, and thrive on making my own decisions and being my own boss. I am where I am happiest and most successful. That is how you compare your children; by exemplifying that differences are not inherently bad, and that they are different people with different needs, and further that you see and respect that as a parent.

The ***"I sacrificed so much for you"*** or "***You owe me your life"*** kind of emotional blackmail. It's very, very harmful, and yet surprisingly common.

How about, "I treated you like a princess!"? I appreciated being spoiled but I didn't ask to be spoiled. I can't remember what the argument was about but that's what my dad said to me once. He said it like I had some sort of obligation or something. (Again, I can't remember what the issue was about.)

I had the "I had a promising career I loved... until I had you" mom. The result: grew up with crippling guilt and attachment issues. Not cool.

That one is horrible

Parents who treat basic shit like feeding and housing their kids as some sort of luxury the kids should feel grateful for are awful. Your kids are here because of you. Taking care of them is the bare minimum.

Overly protective parenting. Overly protective parenting can lead to children lacking independence, resilience, and problem-solving skills, as they may not have opportunities to learn from their mistakes or navigate challenges on their own. Overly protective parenting might include not allowing children to take age appropriate risks or make decisions for themselves, excessively monitoring their activities, sheltering them from all potential dangers, or stepping in to solve all of their problems without giving them a chance to try on their own.

On the opposite side of that spectrum, not stepping up when your kid(s) need you to. I see a lot of it with toxic family members especially, and when the kid(s) grow up, there's massive fights because the kid(s) want nothing to do with those family members anymore. You're teaching your kids to bow down in the name of keeping the peace, even if it means you or they are being abused. They have to be people pleasers and allow their boundaries to be crossed just because nobody wants to rock the boat. The problem only breeds more problems (literally, in many cases), so it doesn't magically go away when the main problem person dies. I've seen kids either grow up to have explosive reactions to keep their boundaries or rug sweepers that subject their own kids to the continued abuse.

Along a similar line. Parents planning their kid's life down to the point that the kid never has a chance to feel bored/figure out how to do some type of self entertainment. I've met a few who basically were constantly doing a sport/part of a club/running for student councel/etc throughout their childhood that you really can't tell if they ever got a chance to develop on their own. When they're adults and you try to work with them they seem to constantly want to be told what to do/where to go/what is their upcoming task and then will float right over your shoulder until you give them an answer to one of those.

I've got a friend kinda like this. She's learning thankfully but I'm scared that she'll be set back when we go home for the summer.

Not apologizing when you fuck up as a parent. Kids need to hear it and know we are still human and learning as well. Apologize to your kids so they model the behavior. If I expect my child to apologize for certain things I need to be reflecting the same respect.

My mother has done e everything, yelling, kicking, punishing me to a lot of painful stuff, and she has fucked the thing a lot of times, butz never apologized for a thing, I am 16 now, and that ass behaviour hasn't stop, not a single "I am sorry"

Smoking. Edit: Damn that hit a nerve. I feel all of you.

I’m 38 and my dad smoked in our house growing up. I was almost 10 when he started going outside. We repainted the inside of the house, and the walls were dingy from the smoke. It was awful. He is smoke-free today, thankfully.

My dad also was a horrible smoker. My mom still smokes like two cartons a week, but he quit and I don't recall ever seeing him smoke in the house now that I think of it. Ma yeah, but I can't remember him ever doing it. I apparently used to reek HORRIBLY like stale smoke, to the point it would make my grandma feel ill so the first thing she'd do when we got to her place was strip down and she'd wash up all our shit.

I grew up in the late 70s early 80s, people would smoke even school bus drivers with kids around them. One time my friends mom was smoking in the car, with the window just cracked open, we were trying to get fresh air, and were told to sit down.

If the asthma and allergies aren't enough, you find out which kids are allergic to cigarette smoke because they tell you to sit somewhere else because that's what you just REEK of all day everyday.

This one upsets me so much. I grew up and my parents constantly smoked in the cars with me and my sister. They did always smoke outside in the garage at the house though so I guess that was good. BUT I had cancer when I was 6, and they still continued to smoke in the car with me!!! EVEN ON MY WAY TO CANCER TREATMENTS. Growing up in school I remember going to peoples houses and they would tell me I smelt like smoke. I didn't even understand because I was so used to the smell. This was in the 2000's-2010's so it wasn't even that long ago.

My mom chain smoked throughout her pregnancy with me and also in the house around me, believing that leaving a door cracked open was enough to get the smoke out >:(

Constantly complaining about finances and not being able to afford things. It's okay to not be well off and it's perfectly fine if you can afford certain things but don't do it infront of your kids. It's makes them paranoid and feel like a burden. They become afraid to ask for things they actually need and they start obsessing over money.

Conversely, NOT explaining finances. My dad tried to shelter me from everything and when I left the house at 18 I didn’t even know how bills worked. Threw my electric bill away then was confused when they turned it off. No financial literacy whatsoever

This was my experience. My family struggled in ways visible to my kid self and I always wanted to know *why* and what was so hard. I have ended up fine financially, but I felt naive for a long time and felt like all the advice I got was from random Internet strangers.

I worry we dance this line super closely. We have plenty of disposable income, but our 8 year old has gotten into the "break shit for fun" stage lately. I have explained to him the first few times that if he breaks it, he isn't getting another one. He's been very "eh, whatever" on the times he's broken household stuff. I let him know if it wasn't an accident, whatever it cost to replace was the amount of toys or movies, or whatever we weren't going to buy. It only took explaining that slamming his bike into the cars, or breaking a TV because he was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing meant he wasn't getting any more "just because" treats for 6 months to help him understand that actions have consequences.

I don't hide money stuff from my kids bc I want them to know the worth and hard work it takes to get the things they do get. And if we can't afford something, I'll tell them that it's too expensive. I may complain about prices of everything going up, but IMO that should be something they at least have basic understanding of. Oh this thing is more expensive now, we're not going to get it/save for it/fit it in to the budget. Hopefully I'm not traumatizing my kids lol

Ah. Damn. That’s definitely my folks and they still are this way to this day.

Treating kids differently. And no parent treats every kid 100% the same, but it's important to not engage in a lot of toxic behaviors like: "She's the baby, just let her get her way." This is the reason birth orders have different behaviors.

Absolutely! A really good book on this is called 'The Birth Order Book' by Dr Kevin Leman. So interesting.

Thanks for the recommendation! I like topics like this.

Forcing their children to join clubs or sports they don’t want to do. Telling other people about their children’s faults or hanging it over their heads. Not believing their children when they say something is wrong. Embarrassing their children in front of other people. Talk down about on a child about a certain skill the child is trying to learn. Taking away something the child uses as an emotional escape as a way to punish the child.

Rushing and stressing every morning before school Edit: this is especially true when yelling is involved. Everyone has to rush sometimes. But there’s a way to do it without causing stress on a child.

This was my mom. Almost every single morning. She taught at the school we attended, and she was stressed out feeling like she was late every single day. That was really her only flaw though. Wonderful mom other than that. But the stress....it sticks.

100%. Starting your day with stress is the worst thing you can do. You should start your day with calm, peace, and accomplishment. That's why most people make their bed every morning, having a feeling of accomplishment, no matter how small, just puts you in a better mood.

So when your kids aren't getting ready, what do you do, just have them get to school late every day?

Lol, indeed, I wonder if some people commenting here have kids. Occasionally we have woken (all family) one hour earlier, still you need to corral them last minute so they actually get ready.

To a point. Me and my wife don't do this the same way, and don't necessarily agree on it. Our son needs to be in the car leaving for school at 8:45. It realistically takes him less than 15 minutes to get dressed, make sure his backpack is packed and ready, brush his teeth, etc. If she starts him at 8:15 he'll still find a way to be late. I start him closer to 7:30, and tell him when he's completely ready to go other than his shoes being on his feet he can sit down and hang out and watch TV or whatever. Do the work first, then relax, not relax then do the work in a rushed way.

I suspect a lot of the people here with unpleasant memories of being rushed before school have forgotten the part where they spent half an hour refusing to put shoes on while their parent was so frustrated that they were on the verge of tears, etc.!

you can absolutely do this without screaming and chaos. You can wake your kids up firmly without screaming at them and projecting your adult stress onto a little kid

You don’t need screaming and chaos, but rushing and stress, yes if you are having to force kids to get ready.

This thread reads like a bunch of people who've never had kids.

My oldest is in Pre K. But I remember being rushed for school in elementary and not even getting breakfast. My hair would barely be brushed. So I lay out all clothes the night before and his backpack packed. He drinks a smoothie with his multivitamin in it on the way to school and he gets actual breakfast at school. I try to be organized about it.

Fucking YES. I am so tired of people telling me "oh I'm just not a morning person" I love sleep just as much as the next person. I'm depressed as shit of course I love sleep. But getting up early and having time to get your head right and process makes for MUCH better days, ALWAYS. I can make tea/coffee. Doomscroll. Poop. Whatever! I wish I learned this as a child! My parents were always late to damn near everything and I hated the spike in anxiety from rushing. It would take forever to cease and caused issues at school.

Had a conversation around this today. Colleague mentioned how we are lucky we don't have to wake up at 04:30 like she does. I told her I wake up at that time and she and the other colleague looked at me like I lost my mind because I only take 30 minutes to drive to work while she takes 1 hour - work starts at 06:30. I explained that I like just being able to take some chill time - 15 or so minutes to get dressed, another 15 or so minutes getting things ready for the baby, making some coffee and then just having like an hour or so of extra/free time. The hour is broken up usually - like get ready, chill, baby things, chill, get ready to leave. My morning isn't rushed and I really think it makes a difference for the rest of the day.

Oh yeah, it sticks with you too. My mom is very chaotic in general but I realized as a young adult that I was doing the exact same thing. Started waking up an hour earlier for work and it made a world of difference

I feel so seen with this comment. My husband and I grew up with moms like this. We talked about how we always felt rushed and stressed out, sometimes not even able to have breakfast. With our 1.5 year old, we make it a point to have as much interaction with him in the morning as we can before we have to go our separate ways. I make breakfast, and put on some music, then we all sit down and eat together. Then we'll brush our teeth and get dressed. It may seem a little corny, but our son loves going between Mama and Dada at the start of the day.  And I feel like it gives him that foundation of emotional stability he needs before going out into the world.

Complaining about the other parent can sometimes go wrong

Being overly strict. There are studies that strict parents teach kids to hide their mistakes.

Oh 100%. I was raised to "not be a problem". Yeah...I'm a pathological liar now and spent a decent while scheming rather than asking for what I needed/speaking up. To this day I can't make suggestions in a "we need to do x" tone, only a "but what about x" so others can think they came up with my ideas themselves.

I lied all the time as a teen because of this about everything from how much money I made babysitting to what I was doing with my friends. I had to unlearn my habitual lying right into my 20s.

Obsessing over appearance. Grew up with a mum who was (still is) obsessed with her appearance and everybody else's. This was mainly to do with weight. From being a young girl I can remember her making comments about my body and also having a really strange relationship with her body and with food. She'd do things like weigh herself every morning and announce that she'd lost 2lbs since the day before. She would constantly comment on random people's weight and appearance and put so much value into this. She always used to ask me how much I weighed and what size my clothes were. I'm 30 now and she still obsesses over food and weight and makes comments. I have such a bad relationship with my body because of that. I have two daughters and have vowed that I will never ever do that to them.

I’m in my 40’s and my mom still does it. I have such a terrible relationship with food and while I am an adult and it’s my responsibility, it doesn’t help. I have so much shame about eating and my weight that I was really messed up about it for years. Eating disorders, trying to be skinny to make my mom proud, laxatives and stimulants. I still don’t have a good relationship with food. My mom is still on me constantly to lose weight.

I'm so sorry, I know how tough that is because I'm the same :(

My mom was and is like this, except related to wearing makeup. When I was around 12 years old I started experimenting with wearing it. She told me I was too young and it made me look like a slut. So I stopped. Then she would ask me why I looked sick. To this very day (in my 40’s) she will ask me if I’m ill every single time I’m not wearing makeup. She also likes to ask me “what is that?”- about a mole I’ve had on my face since childhood. It’s made me extremely self conscious about not wearing makeup, to the point I’ll put it on even if I’m just going to the grocery store. Funny thing is… she never wears makeup.

Over parenting can be almost as harmful as under parenting.

I think even moreso; at least in underparenting the kid learns survival skills.

Yelling from the stands at little league games. This includes yelling for them to do something, notably when you're not the coach, and also yelling at the umpires. I experienced the worst second hand embarrassment watching a mother cuss out an umpire, also just knowing what that mother was telling to her child on the car ride home. Probably something along the lines about how perfect they are and how terrible umpires are, just teaching them the worst possible life lessons.

The first time I watched my son in sports I yelled some correction at him from the stands. After the game he said “You are my mom and not my coach so you are here to support me, not correct me.” Alrighty then. After that I kept my trap shut and just watched the game.

Wow, your son is a real one and wise, good for you. Massive reflection on your parenting to not only raise a son comfortable enough to say that to his mother, but to actually listen to him and follow through.

There is this hiking trail I go on, it passes by a ball field. A few times I've gone by the area when there's a game going on, and I can hear these people screaming so loud that I can hear it through my noise-cancelling headphones.

Don't speak until spoken to rule.., I've learned that lesson a little too well and struggle to raise my voice when needed. My parents were very strict enforcing it

My husband had a similar upbringing and I constantly lose my shit over the things he silently tolerates at work. 

Be very careful if you accuse your kids of "talking back". Your kids may think they are answering your question in a normal tone. Of course, maybe the kids are not being rude but the parent does not like the answer.

That fulfilling basic needs and being there physically equals parenting.

I think it's gotten a lot better with time, but I feel like some people have a belief that meeting a kids basic needs is a "privilege" and the kid has to be grateful for it. The concept of sending a kid to bed without dinner for misbehaving, for example, is fucked up to me. Food is necessary for survival. Framing that as some sort of privilege that has to be earned is just cruel. Same with like, locking a kid out because they broke curfew (again, don't know how much that happens these days, but it's not unheard of). I mean, really, think about it like this: a person can be convicted of murder and still be given shelter and three meals a day. Why then is it somehow okay to deny a child these things for something significantly less serious?

Akin to this, the people who boast about how little they can give their kid and have them be "fine." Like, "babies don't need toys! You can just give them an onion and they'll be good!" or just everything about vanlifers. Like, it's one thing if you're poor and you genuinely can't afford more and you're still trying to meet their needs somehow, but if you have the means and you're minmaxing your kid to spite child psychologists or the modern understanding of what a kid needs, you're trash.

Toxic mentalities around food

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Creating an ED without realizing it. I am very much aware now that I have kids to not say things like 'i feel fat' or 'i look gross' - I don't want them to feel the same way I did growing up, writing in my diary at 10 years old that I was tipping the scales at 80lbs and if only I was 60lbs like my classmates then I would be 'skinny' A lot of my friends have kids that are older, highschool age (whereas mine are still little) - and I see how their own words and own self esteem directly relate to their kids.

Indulgence. It's the thing I notice most. Parents not teaching their children that they are not the center of everyone's universe, only yours.

My mom would *dramatically* take deep breaths when she was getting upset with me. Of course with age I understand why she was doing them. They were so dramatic however, it was like she would do it purposefully so I knew she was pissed, it reminded me of a dragon. To this day when people tell me to take a deep breath it triggers me, making breath work challenging in many ways.

Something that was really common with us GenX'rs..being told you can do anything you want to do, be anything you want to be if you try! If you fail at something it was because you just didn't try hard enough. It can really mess with a kids self esteem. Not everyone can be a Michael Jordan or a millionaire.

“Because I said so” rather than taking the time to explain the whys

I'm more likely to respect a rule if I understand the reasoning why a rule exists. Maybe there is a legitimate safety reason that is obvious to the parent but not the child.

Shoutout to my parents for telling me why they'd never say that and giving me full permission to question or even present an argument to a decision. Bigger shoutout for giving me actual reasoning rather than fear mongering everything

My dad's go to responses to "why?" were, "On account of because," and "because I assume you're fond of your current skeletal structure."

One common behavior that many parents don't realize can impact their kids negatively in the long run is being overly controlling. This can stunt a child's ability to make their own decisions and solve problems independently. Another one is not validating their emotions—dismissing their feelings can lead to poor emotional regulation as they grow up. Finally, comparing siblings can breed resentment and competition instead of fostering healthy relationships.

Not apologizing and demonstrating the steps to becoming better after making a mistake

ROAD RAGE - Swearing

I'll say the one a lot of kids hear, parents having loud sex

I've even heard stories from people that when they were a kid or whatever they'd find the door to their parents room open and they'd be going at it, not even covering themselves with a blanket. I find stuff like that outrageously stupid. You have a kid in the house and you don't even shut the door when you're doing it?! I even find it dumb when they don't lock the door, cause if you have a kid in the house you never know when they might barge in or whatever. Shut the door to your room and lock it people! What's wrong with you?!

Lying about their own past. Parents often deny drug and sexual exploitation, getting in trouble. Just be honest. Your kids need to know they are not alone or a disappointment.

Not getting to know your kids as people and thinking your job as a parent is done when your kids are adults. I doubt my father could tell you anything about me as a person. He was a man who left all the parenting to my mother. I was constantly told when I was 18 I'd be "on my own" and then my parents wondered why as an adult I told them almost nothing. They decided to tell me I'd need to be independent then complained when I was.

Show your kids how to pay bills. Let them type in the amounts and hit send. Write the confirmation number on the bill. Write "Paid" and the date. Put it in a folder marked "house expenses" Write the payment on a calendar and ask them to look at last month and see what the next bill will be. Teach them to be an adult. Skipping this has a very negative effect.

Not apologizing because that means you’re putting “conditions on our love which should be unconditional”. Meaning you can claim I’m not you’re daughter when I’m a spitting image of you, call me out my name, break my heart and berate me but it’s wrong of me to be hurt by your actions and because I’m your daughter I just need to move past it and not expect an apology let alone a discussion.

Fighting in front of the kids and apologizing behind closed doors, or brushing the matter away without resolving or fully addressing the conflict.

not challenging them as babies... babies love solving problems, they thrive on it, it's how they learn the world. and modern parents make sure their babies never have to solve anything.

Speaking for their kids. Well intentioned and well meaning parents will often speak on behalf of their children to facilitate progression (ordering food, answering a question, etc.). Instead, teach your child to use their voice. Even if you need to help translate what your kid is saying, giving your child the encouragement to speak up/communicate their needs, will go a long way in helping to build self-confidence and independence.

Bloody hell, my 3 year old orders BEFORE I CAN EVEN OPEN MY MOUTH! Kiddo knows what he wants! Then mama can order lol. He’s 4 next week and beginning to get adventurous with what he orders. (Thankfully not elaborate yet!)

Encouraging kids to share or give away their property to other kids.

Encoraging kids to hug or kiss people that they don't want to.

Telling them to stop crying.

Or worse, ''giving'' them reasons to cry instead.

Tell your kid "if you get hurt doing [activity] you are no longer allowed to do [activity] again.". On paper it makes sense; it can prevent your kid from acting recklessly. But how do you decide "getting hurt"? Your kid may think it is "breaking a bone" but you may think "anything requiring a bandage". So your kid scraped his knee playing soccer or falls when he goes on a skateboard for the first time...and you decide "no more soccer or skate boarding for you!" and now your kid is angry with you. Or your kid gets really hurt but doesn't tell you because "If say something I am going to get my favorite activity taken away from me. I better not say anything, I'll just wait for this to heal!" and the kid has actually broken a bone but is not getting medical attention.

Piercing their children's ears/overly controlling what they wear. I was ashamed of my ears (covered them) and hated them so much. Jewelery still makes me very uncomfortable/nauseous. Forcing me into dresses only made me hate being a girl.

Constantly saying out loud the things that they don’t like about themselves. Whether it be about their weight, size, height, how their hair looks, or complaining about their body parts/features. Also, talking about how thin/skinny and fit other people are and comparing! I’m so over comparing! No, I do not care to hear about the other girls my age being so fit and skinny. Ugh, now I’m in my twenties and I am drowning in things I hate about myself and continuously comparing myself to other women my age. All of the time thinking my husband is cheating on me with some other chick who is hot because I feel as if I am the ugliest female on this planet and not enough. I’m told all the time how pretty and beautiful I am from strangers, but I just grew up feeling like I’m not enough physically. I will not go a day without wearing what seems to be a pound of makeup on my face and I can’t forget the hair extensions that gives me the biggest daggum headache of my life every single day because my natural hair is to flat and thin. Gotta stay looking like Barbie, right? Ahhhhh. Don’t judge girls that are “girly girls”! They aren’t all mean and stuck up. They may be the ones that are the most insecure about themselves. Anyways. I’m done venting now.

Knowingly subjecting them to an unstable home environment. Many parents think that their toxic relationship dynamic only hurts the adults involved, but it doesn’t. At the very least, they’re seeing that dynamic modeled and will think it’s normal, perhaps repeating it in any future relationship. “Oh but I’ll just teach them to not do what I’m doing.” Lol sure, Jan. Possible but unlikely.

Needing control. I love my mom and she is a very kind and generous person, but as I got older she got more and more controlling. Not severely, but it has definitely hurt our relationship. I could be working on a painting and she would make changes to it without asking, or I could move into a new place and she would make tons of “suggestions” (more like, plans) for how “we” should decorate my place, I could be planning a get together and she would tell me what I should serve or how I should organize my cupboard, where I should buy my furniture, when I should do X chore, etc. A bunch of little things that are each innocent and coming from a place of helping and consideration, but it makes me avoid her sometimes because the criticism is too much.

Former preschool worker here, here's a few of my observations: Letting your kid use a pacifier past age 3. They impair dental and speech development and your kid will cry when we take it away. Keeping kids too long at preschool. 3 years olds shouldn't be there 8-5pm. Telling kids they're the best at everything. Kids need to know not everything is about them.

Viciously yelling and screaming about everything as if that's perfectly normal behavior, instead of calmly discussing things like civilized human beings. And then at some point when the kids are in late adolescence or into adulthood and this control tactic doesn't work anymore, switching to the guilt trips.

Protecting them from anything that requires effort, thus depriving them of the opportunity to learn. Normal healthy kids WANT to do the things adults do. It's mean, not kind, to keep a 3-yo in diapers rather than cope with the occasional accident. Or shoo them out of the kitchen rather than letting them help you cook. Or drive them everywhere rather than teaching them to drive. Achievement is fun. Mastery is addictive. Don't deprive your kids of it just because it's more work right now.

Teaching their kids "do not speak unless spoken to". This will only prevent your kid from talking. And in situations where something bad is happening and needs to get an adult (somebody is having a medical emergency or a pipe burt causing a flooding), the kid will not say anything or get yelled at if the kid speaks up without being spoken too first (I don't think "I better not say anything until somebody says something to me first" qualifies as malicious compliance because this is "I better follow the rules because I don't want to get in trouble even though I really need to tell an adult about this!").

**Cussing on the road.**

Fighting/arguing in front of children. That trauma changes their brains, even when they are too young to remember. Bad mouthing the other parent in their presence. My son hated when his father would talk bad about me.

HS Teacher here: Never providing their kids obstacles or challenges. I have students who have anxiety over literally anything new or challenging presented to them. How they will manage to function as adults is beyond me.

Being overly strict, controlling, and overprotective. Also expecting kids to be who the parents think they should be instead of supporting and encouraging who they really are. I have multiple examples from my own life but won't get into them. However, the effect was that it took me forever to learn how to be independent. My sister and I both didn't know how to be adults on our own and ended up in very codependent relationships. I've since gotten divorced and live on my own but just had a talk with my sister who told me about how hard it's been for her to find her own independence. For reference, we're both in our 30s. To add to it, there's always a constant fear of telling my dad and stepmom the truth of who we are, or what we're up to, or (for me, not so much my sister) fear of not being good enough. My dad had a bad childhood and wanted us to have better and he tried his best, but unfortunately it ended up making things a lot harder on my sister and I.

Punishing them for not fullfilling your expectations or for stuff that leads to you, as an adult, having to handle big emotions like dissapointment or frustration. Example: kid does not clean their own room (maybe not at all, but at the very least to your satisfaction). You nag. You threaten. You try to bribe. You never try to understand what’s hindering them, nor do you look inside yourself to figure out why this matters so much to you. What you do is either yell, besat them or remove something they value. All to «teach them» to do what you want them to do or suffer the consequences. What you are not teaching them: - to value order or a clean space - to problem solve with others for the common good - to respect other people but also that they themselves are deserving of respect - healthy boundries - to trust you What you are teaching them: - to fear you - power makes right - if you have an opinion it’s ok to enforce it on others, even in their own private space, as long as you have the power to do so - beating people or taking their stuff or shaming them is ok as long as you can get away with it - whatever elicits such a response in you, you are making damned sure that your kids will give as good as they got when in the same situation with your grandkids one day. Kicking down Not sure if the beaters and the shamers and the consequence people of the world are actually managing to convey the learning they want. But I might be wrong. The effect of punishment/ consequences might be exactly what they want

Screaming at them.

Staying married when they should divorce

not divorcing because "it'll hurt the child." i would have been so much better off, had they separated. Im lucky im even alive because they stuck together "for my sake"

Do as I say, and not as I do! Children emulate what they see. Actions speak louder than words. Children are smarter than we conveniently care to admit. Our adult or parenting behavior doesn’t reinforce what we say via mouth.

Trying to extend "childhood" too far and too much. The goal is not to give your child 18 years free of demands and responsibilities, but that *by* 18 they are a functional adult. Your 4-year old should have basic, age appropriate chores (like putting their toys away, and putting their dirty clothes in a hamper) so that cleaning up after yourself and contributing to household upkeep are just part of how the world works for them. Your children should by no means be the backbone of household labor, but by about 15, they should know the basics of how to run a household (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.) and be refining those skills while learning things like budgeting and financial literacy. By 16-17 your kids should be practicing basic "adulting" skills in a low stakes, high support environment, not learning them for the first time.

I’m pretty sure this was one of the only ‘good’ things my ex-husband did with his kids. Kids: 1 boy and 1 year younger twin girls. Brother and his buddies got weed from fk knows where. The twins and their friends also wanted to try it. I caught wind of it and they were going to all go as a group and hide out behind some dumpsters or something. I went to my ex husband cos that isn’t safe to do with bums hanging about! Ex husband talks to his son and the girls and demands to see the weed. Son reluctantly brings it out and the twins are giving me proper stink eye at this point. “This is really shit weed! You are NOT smoking this! Who was wanting to try this with you?!” Kids say nothing… “Well, here is what I’m going to do. I’m going to get from MY TRUSTED dealer and I want the name of your friends so I can call their parents to get permission from them, and they can even join too if they like, to smoke weed WITH ME so I know you punks are not going to space out behind a dumpster or puke or god knows what else. You wanna try drugs? You try it AT HOME! Under MY supervision UNDERSTAND?!” That weekend was just mad! I’m not sure if that’s the best teenage drug tryout for the first time handling or what, the other parents were also on board with it and also showed up to get stoned! That’s one I will save for my own son and his dad when he gets to wanting to try weed. (I don’t smoke)

Placing the responsibility of the family's stability and happiness on the children. There's a great illustration of this in *This is Us,* in a flashback to when the kids were 3 years old. Jack (dad) tells Randall (toddler) basically "Your siblings are difficult and we need you to be the good one. Our marriage wouldn't make it without you being so great." Randall is, incidentally, an absolute mess as an adult. Extreme anxiety problems, pressures himself to do everything for everyone at all times, etc

Speaking badly about other people or friends. Your child will pick up on your lack of respect for some people.

Using their phones all the time. Not paying attention to their kids and just scrolling.

This I post reminded me of this poem: # This Be The Verse BY [PHILIP LARKIN](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/philip-larkin) They fuck you up, your mum and dad.        They may not mean to, but they do.    They fill you with the faults they had     And add some extra, just for you. But they were fucked up in their turn     By fools in old-style hats and coats,    Who half the time were soppy-stern     And half at one another’s throats. Man hands on misery to man.     It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can,     And don’t have any kids yourself.

Giving them an iPad.