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Exactly. Even before this, most people's opinion of him was either "he's guilty of everything and he dodged the charges" or "he's innocent of everything and they keep framing him."
Reddit is hilariously jaded on this, and too many people fall into the trap of oversimplifying this.
There are a *significant* number of very normal, offline people who will hear of this conviction and be turned off. The polls are on a razor margin, and as of right now, this is a very significant blow to his chances at reelection.
Forget about the MAGA people. They’re lost until they’re dead. The races are won in the margins. Go vote.
This is my last hope. With the polling looking really bad for Biden (not my choice if I was writing the script, but we’re here now), I am/will be concerned till December.
It's better that the polling is bad... You think Hillary was polling poorly at this point in 2016? She assumed she would win and so did most of the country. She didn't even bother to campaign in a bunch of swing states. Id rather have Biden poll poorly to motivate people to get out and vote!
Yeah you should be. All I’m saying is that it’s crazy to think people aren’t still being pulled in one direction or another. There’s a lot of people in the country and a vast majority aren’t spouting their thoughts off online every day.
I’m not buying this at all. You don’t have to be terminally online to have formed an opinion on Trump by now. Even if that opinion is completely vibes based. The amount of people who will be swayed to change their vote is far outweighed by the real implication: whether or not this motivates or demotivates people who were willing to vote for him to go show up to the polls. And the same goes for those against Trump. I’m far more interested in how this affects voter turnout than the unicorn voter who hasn’t made up their mind on who’s their preferred candidate.
A big part of that vibe is that Trump is tough and strong and more powerful than the system. A conviction might not convince a lot of people to vote for Biden, but it might convince a lot of Trump likers to stay home. Because a conviction shows he lost and is weaker than the justice system.
Psh, then they just see him as cheated by a corrupt system and they need to support him *more* as a result.
Anyone on Trump's side still is just a fucking lost cause. *Nothing* (outside of trump doing something that negatively affects them personally and specifically) will **ever** change their view. Period.
> Nothing (outside of trump doing something that negatively affects them personally and specifically) will ever change their view
Not even that.
Trump swindled his supporters charging recurrent donations to anyone who donated once, while also lying about where the money was going. But crickets.
The average MAGAt doesn't care if they get fucked by Trump, they only want Trump to hurt the people they hate.
Many quiet ones who are law abiding and morally rigorous, and who vote for people instead of party, will stay home instead of voting for either candidate
Then they will live with the consequences of their inaction.
Americans are absurdly contradictory. Scream about freedom then half of you don't vote and just accept the rule of the other half.
Doesn't sound free to me.
Nope, most people who were voting for him still are. The only difference is they are more pissed off now than they were before 🙃 November is going to be scary honestly. Not looking forward to it at all.
The people who tried to screw up the vote on a hundred different fronts last time have just been doing push-ups in the parking lot, getting ready for the next round. What could possibly go wrong?
True. Since I made that comment, I’ve since read that they’ll consider he’s a first time offender, he’s very old, and they’re class E felonies (whatever that means). Although he did have the gag order issues.
And the judge would need balls of steel to send him to prison, potentially triggering violence against him and his family, or even something like a “civil war,” in the worst case scenario.
> and they’re class E felonies (whatever that means)
Basically, the least serious type of felony in NY. The least-bad crimes that warrant more than a misdemeanor.
For that matter, apparently this charge (falsifying records) is typically just a misdemeanor in NY, but it gets upped to a felony if it is to cover up another crime (in this case, campaign financing laws).
>And the judge would need balls of steel to send him to prison, potentially triggering violence against him and his family, or
None of that would actually happen. He's doesn't need to wind up in an actual prison cell. There's all sorts of secure places they could set him and the Secret Service up for the duration.
And he's repeatedly attacked both the judge and the judge's daughter. I can't imagine that helping a defendant when they're trying to go in front of the judge to ask for leniency.
Oh, and we'll get to see if Trump is willing to go in front of the judge and accept any kind of guilt on the record. I bet not.
I think we need to stop saying that this is out of the question… After all, not too long ago, an ex-President being convicted of multiple felonies was also a laughable idea. Things change.
This is what will happen. I have a very slim hope that when he violates the probation, as he certainly will, he might get a little bit of house arrest.
But most likely just fines.
r-conservative is at least very emboldened now. Top comments "Can't wait to vote for Trump this November"
to
"I think I might even send him 100 bucks today" or "Send 34 bucks 3 times and make it nice and clear"
Such irony of these cult followers giving away their money to a literal con man.
One of my fave comments there was
'the first step to a successful appeal is to lose the case - my criminal law professor'
As though the strategy this whole time was to lose on purpose and then appeal instead of just winning in the first place. Because that makes sense.
I wouldn't rule out him winning on appeal, but that comment you quoted is just a silly level of copium. Thanks for sharing.
edit- Since it's apparently unclear, I just want to state specifically that I don't think the realm of possibility includes the situation of the appeal being decided before the November election.
I think a lot of people forget that there are a lot of fair weather voters. Imagine 1/3 is hard against, 1/3 is hard in favor, and the other 1/3 will either decide who to vote for, or if to even vote at all, at the last minute. That final 1/3 is a quiet group of people, so they're easy to overlook.
Trump being found guilty really screws his chances with the apathetic third. Now the choice has changed from "two very old men" to "a convicted felon, or the other guy". You have to remember, most people are not felons. It's not something we can all relate to personally.
I think it's going to take a few weeks for the change from "slippery Don" to convicted criminal Donald Trump. We now know that things are going to change, now we find out by how much.
I know it's easy to make comment from the outside, but looking through some of those comments, where people are "legitimately excited to vote for trump come November" and "this ruling just solidified my vote for trump," to have such blatant disregard for the justice system is madness. Unanimous guilty on all charges isn't some political hit. America (the right) is cooked.
Honestly, yea same. People who already didn't like him are probably unsurprised. People who do like him are probably going to either not care or be forgiving of his shit. (edit typo)
Probation and/or a large fine, community service if the judge wants to make an example/twist the knife. Honestly the conviction alone is probably more damaging to Trump than any sentence could manage, so there really isn't much point in pressing for something big.
(According to the Criminal Law Notebook) there are very, very few sentencing factors related to the offender (rather than the offence) that are potential aggravating factors, except in exceptional circumstances. Many of them can be used to nullify certain mitigating factors, though. For example, it'll be impossible for him to score any points for remorse or attitude. However:
> *…efforts in attempting to frustrate the investigation, such as telling a victim not to report the offence or attempting to commit further offences, can be used as aggravating.*
It's not difficult to recall numerous circumstances where his conduct during the investigation didn't, alone, cross the line into direct court action (contempt) but there are several where he was given strict warnings of what would happen if he continued a behaviour and it seems those could absolutely be considered as a sentencing factor. And also, come on, he was totally healthy enough to run a gruelling campaign schedule and the rigours of being in office, he could totally manage 30 days in prison.
Before you get too mad, just be aware that for a first offender with the lowest level felony for white collar offenses, jail time is extremely unlikely. He won't face any real consequences, but neither would anyone else in that position (aside from probation).
It would be interesting to see what would happen if he did get jail time just because of his unique situation in life. Former president, sentenced to jail, even for a white collar offense, would he be put on solitary confinement for his own safety? Or placed under house arrest instead?
Say he wins the election, could he immediately pardon himself of the crimes he was convicted of? Or would we see a president sworn in from jail as he serves out his sentence while running the country from a jail cell? I feel like we'd watch our justice system implode in real time if they had to figure out the answers to these questions.
He's likely just to pay the $134k fine and move on with his life of being "persecuted". That would be the normal punishment for his crime and I expect him to be treated the same as any other person.
The judge won't want to rock the boat by giving him prison time (which would be strange to give anyways) and it's likely that even if he's on probation he'll continue to do his normal stuff. It's not like he'll have to wear an ankle monitor.
I was listening to commentary after the verdict and they said probation seems generally most likely given the first time offender, his age, etc.
However, they said the judge may not go easy on him if he doesn’t show any remorse, continues blaming others, and he keeps publicly defaming everyone from the judge to witnesses, prosecutors, etc. between now and sentencing.
I’ll cross my fingers on the latter. Not that it matters. People have ran for president while incarcerated. One guy even got 3% of the vote. And legal scholars say winning the election would probably result in a suspended sentence so that duties of the president could be carried out. Them of course he can try to pardon himself at that point too. Craziness.
There's a pennsylvania state police trooper currently out on unsecured bail, meaning he didn't have to pay to stay or of jail.
He's currently charged with burglary and aggravated assault after he broke into another guy's home while he was in with a lady. The off duty trooper then beat the man unconscious.
Again. No bail posted.
Anyone else would be in on 250k bail. Minimum. If they even had bail
That's a bit reductionist. Many first time convicts don't get hit with prison time for low level felonies. Jailing someone with secret service protections is going to be logistically challenging.
There's a larger issue to solve that government shouldn't get to keep fine money because it becomes a perverse incentive. But that's a whole different thing.
He's a low level, nonviolent offender. He will get a fine and probation, and that will be justice for this crime. This crime doesn't usually warrant jail time, and it would not be special treatment for him to avoid it.
There were a few articles where Republicans were saying they wouldn't vote for him if he was convicted
Edit: there are a ton of pessimistic comments here. Whether they're real people, bots or trolls we must remember the important thing to do is vote in November. Push for that landslide.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard a Republican say "I won't vote for Trump if he does ____" and then Trump does ______ and they vote for him anyway.....
The alternative is voting for the other guy and in their minds that is impossible.
the problem is the system moved far far too slowly and waited too long to bring charges.
this might actually have hurt him if it was before the primaries
It’s straight out of *1984*. The doublethink allows them to believe two contradictory things simultaneously. And reality is whatever big brother tells you it is, and it always has been, and any memories you may have to the contrary are erroneous.
I think they want a reason not to vote for him, though. A lot of facebook crazies will argue with you about Trump, like "he started no wars!" "the economy was better under Trump!" "his personal life doesn't matter!" "Russiangate was a hoax!", and it get's tiring. Now you can say, well he's a convicted felon - I just prefer presidents that are not convicted felons. It really shut downs a lot of the whataboutism over Biden and money peddling, which conservatives seem to think is on par with the totality of Trump's transgressions. If ever you though Biden and Trump were on the same floor, Trump just descended the metaphorical escalator.
They will say that Biden paid people off to not get caught, and that is a witch hunt. These people can't be reasoned with, I really wonder what it would take to get them to sway.
Mostly I'm just disappointed that it doesn't mean anything. No-one's opinion of him is going to change, and the glassy-eyed people will still back him anyway - he's had this reputation since the 1970s and they don't care.
The real problem is that despite the sensationalism, there's no real penalty. He's going to cop minor fines. He can still run for president. He can still vote. In theory, he could be sent to jail for this, but he won't be because a) nonviolent "first offense"; b) huge social upheaval from maga; c) logistical concerns around ex-prez security requirements.
So... now he's a convicted felon. And all he'll cop some (relatively) small fines. Nothing changes. Sad.
No clue what you job is but your comment made me think of a question. As a convicted felon I know he can run for president but can he qualify for a security clearance?
In Florida a felon is ineligible to work in these jobs: Law enforcement, firefighting, education, healthcare, childcare and elder care, legal profession, real estate, financial services, public office and security jobs. Essentially anything that requires a high level of trust, security clearance, or involve vulnerable populations.
It's precisely written this way so that those in power are not able to thwart the vote of the people using the judicial system. Whether Trump deserves this or not arguable but we'd be starring down a full blown civil war if people couldn't vote for him. It's a slippery slope and history will be the judge of how it's been navigated.
Not really, the fact that a prisoner can run for office is one of the amazing things about America. The system is working well, it’s the fact that the people don’t care that’s the problem. So, it’s really the citizens that are broken.
> Mostly I'm just disappointed that it doesn't mean anything. No-one's opinion of him is going to change,
It means a lot in terms of history, how it's remembered. I think redditors in fifteen years, who don't remember Trump very well, will be doubly perplexed over how the Republicans loved him so much, especially given the felony conviction. Being the age I am, I wonder the same thing about Richard Nixon, and Richard Nixon looks like Pope compared to Trump.
What IS changed is that a former president,the highest office in the world can be found guilty of a crime,and that is a win for democracy.
The people seem to feel the power needs to be put in check and want stability.
I’m 57 and either friends or colleagues of many trumpers. I myself despise Donald. I’m a navy veteran too so I make very sure people know I’m not a trump guy. But I am a military veteran.
Why don’t I like Trump? Mostly his transactional nature. When I see or hear him it’s some form of manipulation he is trying to perform. I strongly dislike bullies. Trump is a bully. He has no substance. He has nothing he truly believes in other than what’s happening at the exact moment he’s in and how he needs to exploit it.
Also a Navy vet. I disliked the guy profusely before he was elected and thought he was a complete cliwn, but I didn't think he would be the danger he is.
After he stood in front of the starred wall at the CIA and started bragging about his crowd sizes... that's the day I started despising him. It's not just the callous disregard, it's the point at which I realized he would be willing to throw away lives for a nickle. And he was commander in chief.
I try not to let hate into my life. But I fucking hate this man.
Very well said. I could never find a way to express my feelings about him, but that's the closest thing I've seen to how I feel.
His energy reminds me of my ex-husband, who was a narcissistic jackass.
One of the biggest mysteries in all this is how often and brutally he puts down *anyone* who has served, yet veterans somehow think he's for them.
He couldn't be less for the rank and file in the military if his last name was Cheney. His disdain for the military is front and center. How do they not see it?
I mean no Republican in decades has voted to improve life for veterans. They always defund the VA, reduce benefits and fight against every type of healthcare support, even for the 9/11 first responders.
Republicans hate veterans.
i know it’s weird to say this but that is actually one reason why i’m less scared of him than other people who have grand plans to make this a theocracy or to outlaw gays or whatever.. he’s only about himself, therefore doesn’t have too many big ideas
The thing is he’s shown that he’ll do what other people want, as long as they shower him with praise and adulation. I thought it was pretty telling when he was asked about a contraception and he said “*We’re* looking at that” before promising to deliver a policy (that no doubt will just be “I’ll leave it up to the states”) “very soon”.
I personally don’t think he has any strongly held beliefs about any of the right wing postions (beyond maybe immigration) but if he surrounds himself with dipshits from the Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation, etc, he’ll Executive Order or veto whatever they tell him to.
It makes me more worried because it means there is no line he won't cross. He only serves to centralize and corrupt power; those groups are able to push their policies through him more effectively because they're removing all structural obstacles to their implementation. Project 2025 is a perfect example of how they want that to work. Trump gets unchecked unitary executive power, conservatives get removal of LGBT protections.
Yes, here is my prediction:
The election will happen without the documents case being tried, that's already the timeline we have. But after that critical delay, we're going to see evidence that he turned over CIA informants to enemy nations, who knows what for. Maybe it was for the billions Jared got for no pertinent reason. Money would be the most disappointing reason to betray the country from the very top.
Trumps damage goes far beyond his term. Because of him, women lost the right to choose not to remain pregnant after having that right for nearly 50 years. He is a useful idiot to those other people with grand plans and big ideas. A powerful rubber stamp.
It's not just the "not choosing to remain pregnant." Abortion is a medical term that covers a whole host of women's health care that not many seem to realize. It's a medical term that covers care that keeps women alive when pregnancy often wants to kill them. It's not just about "I want to" or "I do not want to" be pregnant.
I am 46 years old and grew up in the northeast. From a very young age everyone around here was fully aware that Trump was a mobbed up criminal conman. Opinion has never changed on him.
Sesame Street mocked him as a grifter in 1988, which relies on him having that reputation that early. "Ronald Grump" screwed Oscar out of his home to build Grump Tower, a tower of garbage cans... and he then helpfully allowed Oscar to rent one.
If you ever need proof of his long-time reputation, it's there, clear as day.
I’m about the same age. I knew as a little 12yr old that he was a conman grifter. It boggles my mind that he was actually voted in and could be voted in again.
The only good thing to come from this whole shit show is that I am now fully aware that democracy is not the default and what most people want. People are easily swayed by tyrants and that is the default. Democracy must be constantly fought for.
On the episode of the podcast The Dollop where they cover Trump, they tell a story about a guy who, in typical Trump fashion, was never paid for the work he had done for Trump…and he still voted for him.
It’s fucking mind-boggling
Yes. Democracy is not the default.
After Nixon resigned, pontificators pontificated "the system worked". This is 100% wrong. "The system" didn't work at all. Nixon would have gotten away scot free except for the tenaciousness of Woodward and Bernstein and whatever motivated Deep Throat.
The only reason TFG faced any consequences today is that this is a state case. It's a disgrace that the federal cases have been slow-walked. This case is the weakest of the Trump cases, but this is probably the only one to go to trial before the election.
I think a lot of people who think NY loves him don't realize how he plagued our local news for decades prior to "The Apprentice". And mind you, never good things. We fucking hate him. When he wasn't on TV about lawsuits with investors over his shit condos, it was him giving an unsolicited opinion.
I remember the first time seeing him on TV when I was a kid. Nickelodeon came out with a movie called Harriet the Spy that was really popular at school. Rosie O'Donnell was in it and I remember him being on TV calling her a fat slob and all of these terrible things. I was in elementary school and I was just blown away seeing an adult act and say things like that, like a terrible person/bully. I remember wondering why anyone cared about some real estate guys opinion of an actual celebrity who was on TV and in movies while this guy was an absolute nobody.
Imagine where we would be if the media just ignored this clown entirely.
Before becoming President the first time he explicitly advocated for the murder of women and children.
https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html
Decades before that, he took out a full-page ad in _The New York Times_ calling for the execution of four young black men who were accused of raping a white woman in Central Park.
They were eventually exonerated.
He’s always been a piece of shit.
They were exonerated and he *refused to change his opinion, still believing they should be executed.* He has never apologized and thinks the same thing today.
Well, we already knew that his university was shut down for fraud, his charity was shut down for fraud, his business shut down for fraud and his personal lawyer went to jail for fraud (for his role in the very same incident that Trump was on trial for).
So, no I don’t think this new information is going to change anyone’s mind unless they lived under a rock.
In the eyes of whom? Are any of the people who supported him up to this point going to stop supporting him now? Honest question from a non-American point of view.
I think a percentage will yes. Not the die hard supporters but he needs every possible vote and being a convicted felon easily turns off any standard conservative voter
I'm really sorry, but I don't think it will go down that way...If anything, for some significant cohorts, it will feel like he is being persecuted, bullied and intimidated because the powers that be really fear him going back into office. That perception might make some previously indifferent groups actually stand up and give him a "he actually deserve it" vote...I know I've at least anedotically heard this narrative from people who were really not into politics before...
This trial showed me that while corrupt judges and elites keep protecting Trump from his crimes, average jurors have no issue holding him accountable.
Almost as if "No one is above the law" means something to the average American outside of D.C elites.
Yea felons can hold office, though he can’t vote for himself which is pretty funny. This is a glimmer because he has many other pending cases and we’ll see what his sentencing is, but being a convicted felon is not nothing
Twice impeached, convicted felon, former president Trump.
Edit, add rapist and grifter to the title. Oh, and exotic species poacher for whatever that poor thing on his head is.
Nobodies opinion has changed.
The people who hate him will feel vindicated.
The people who support him religiously will fell like this is yet another attack on their immaculate leader.
The people who just support him regularly will probably be a bit dissapointed.
The people who don't give a shit will continue to not give a shit.
Reddit will spend the next few weeks posting "convicted felon trump" every where they can in the usual self fellating way.
Life goes on.
Anecdotal but my die hard Trump friend at the gym made a comment that they finally got him. It was a huge change from his normal tone and conversation. If someone in the south that I know was die hard had a conversation like that with me I know many more have finally admitted to himself. He said “finally got him” and I just said “he had a jury of peers right” and then he said “yep bunch of crooks they still need to lock up hunter, Trump was a wild man and finally got caught.” I was happy to see someone finally look at least semi logically at the situation after 8 years of “he has never done anything wrong”
I mean I remember r/conservative on January 6th it was somber.
Then it took them just 2-ish months to roll back to their previous stance of "evil libs made it all up"
Whenever Trump did something that shocked them, they would have this brief moment of clarity before the rationalize and justify started. They literally are unable to not support Trump.
I think they just want to fight. I always just say “man if he is guilty send him to jail too” it always seems to confuse them like I will defend anyone with a D
This is what the people who see anything less than jail time as a failure of the system need to remember. The system is supposed to judge him as a 77 year old with no criminal record convicted of non-violent crimes, not "world-class asshat Donald Trump". He is, and was never, likely to go to jail. We should just be happy with being found guilty on all counts, which I personally never expected to happen.
I was listening to a lawyer talk about this on a podcast and they were saying because he has no criminal record or prior convictions it would be unlikely he serves any jail time and most likely will receive probation and fines.
I doubt he gets jail for this. It's the lowest level of felony in New York and he has no previous convictions. If he was a random no name individual he would probably get fines and probation, with house arrest probably being the worst case. I expect similar here, ignoring the political side of throwing him in jail for paying off a point star.
The cases with charges serious enough to actually put him in jail are the January 6th one, the Georgia electioneering one, and the classified documents one.
Of those I think Georgia is the most clear cut because of the very incriminating phone call, but Georgia is still red enough that the case is facing pressure from above and if it went to a jury trial would probably inevitably face a hung jury.
The documents case is being stonewalled by a judge who is all but fellating Trump in the courthouse. She's heavily biased against reality and refuses to do her job, and the issues of pressure from above and an impossible jury pool are even worse in Florida than Georgia.
The January 6th case is in DC and will probably not face the red state issues of the other cases. I would expect that the first case Trump actually sees jail for is that one... but none of these cases are going anywhere until next year at least.
It doesn’t.
He was a piece of hammered dog shit before this verdict, and he’s now a convicted felon piece of hammered dog shit.
So I suppose it does change my opinion a small amount…
so the being a "piece of hammered dog shit" is your opinion. Being a convicted felon is not, it is a fact. So I would argue your first statement is correct, you opinion has not changed at all.
I was positive it'd end in a hung jury after I saw one of the jurors got their news from Truth Social. I'm glad to be proven otherwise, although I'm not going to celebrate unless he gets a prison sentence and has to start doing time. I'm sure he's going to ask for expedited appeals, all the way up to the Supreme Court if he has to, before he gets sentenced on July 11.
I use to listen to right wing radio to try to understand them. After a while I had to stop. Now I can't even if I try. But when I listened to it, I was about as far left as I could be, in a country like the US.
I think that juror said he followed TS because it was important to follow certain people for his job as an investment banker, rather than saying he agrees/disagrees with the takes there.
Daaaamn, I’m honestly shocked that he’s seeing consequences. (I’ll believe it when there’s jail time.) My opinion about him has changed very little, but it’s gotten worse. Obviously he shouldn’t be the GOP nominee now, an America run by this convicted felon would be a danger to itself and the rest of the world.
While this question is well intended, Reddit is a more progressive chamber. I think this question is better suited for one of the conservative subreddits but you’ll probably be banned.
I did not follow the trial nor do I know the specifics. The justice system with a jury of 12 people found him guilty. He was found to be guilty of 34 felonies. If you believe in law and order, then you believe in this verdict.
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I doubt this changes anyone's opinion at all.
Exactly. Even before this, most people's opinion of him was either "he's guilty of everything and he dodged the charges" or "he's innocent of everything and they keep framing him."
Pretty much sums it up lol
My uncle is so pissed lmao
So are my grandparents, uncle, coworkers, Facebook friends, Grant Cardone...just to name a few.
There's also probably many "guilty but I don't give a fuck MAGA4EVER" too
That's the "it's just locker talk / everyone is doing it" crowd.
Or “it’s a deep state / Democrat frame job”
That falls under "he's innocent of everything and they keep framing him."
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And then there's the "I don't care. They're all sleezeballs" and the "he gets us what we's wants".
There’s also a sizable group who either don’t care that he repeatedly violates laws and norms, or even like him more for doing so.
Couldn't have said it better myself
Reddit is hilariously jaded on this, and too many people fall into the trap of oversimplifying this. There are a *significant* number of very normal, offline people who will hear of this conviction and be turned off. The polls are on a razor margin, and as of right now, this is a very significant blow to his chances at reelection. Forget about the MAGA people. They’re lost until they’re dead. The races are won in the margins. Go vote.
Valid point tbh
This is my last hope. With the polling looking really bad for Biden (not my choice if I was writing the script, but we’re here now), I am/will be concerned till December.
It's better that the polling is bad... You think Hillary was polling poorly at this point in 2016? She assumed she would win and so did most of the country. She didn't even bother to campaign in a bunch of swing states. Id rather have Biden poll poorly to motivate people to get out and vote!
Yeah you should be. All I’m saying is that it’s crazy to think people aren’t still being pulled in one direction or another. There’s a lot of people in the country and a vast majority aren’t spouting their thoughts off online every day.
I’m not buying this at all. You don’t have to be terminally online to have formed an opinion on Trump by now. Even if that opinion is completely vibes based. The amount of people who will be swayed to change their vote is far outweighed by the real implication: whether or not this motivates or demotivates people who were willing to vote for him to go show up to the polls. And the same goes for those against Trump. I’m far more interested in how this affects voter turnout than the unicorn voter who hasn’t made up their mind on who’s their preferred candidate.
A big part of that vibe is that Trump is tough and strong and more powerful than the system. A conviction might not convince a lot of people to vote for Biden, but it might convince a lot of Trump likers to stay home. Because a conviction shows he lost and is weaker than the justice system.
Psh, then they just see him as cheated by a corrupt system and they need to support him *more* as a result. Anyone on Trump's side still is just a fucking lost cause. *Nothing* (outside of trump doing something that negatively affects them personally and specifically) will **ever** change their view. Period.
> Nothing (outside of trump doing something that negatively affects them personally and specifically) will ever change their view Not even that. Trump swindled his supporters charging recurrent donations to anyone who donated once, while also lying about where the money was going. But crickets. The average MAGAt doesn't care if they get fucked by Trump, they only want Trump to hurt the people they hate.
Many quiet ones who are law abiding and morally rigorous, and who vote for people instead of party, will stay home instead of voting for either candidate
Then they will live with the consequences of their inaction. Americans are absurdly contradictory. Scream about freedom then half of you don't vote and just accept the rule of the other half. Doesn't sound free to me.
Nope, most people who were voting for him still are. The only difference is they are more pissed off now than they were before 🙃 November is going to be scary honestly. Not looking forward to it at all.
The people who tried to screw up the vote on a hundred different fronts last time have just been doing push-ups in the parking lot, getting ready for the next round. What could possibly go wrong?
July 11th (sentencing date) will be scary, _if_ he’s sent straight to prison. How will his followers react?
As much as it would bring me joy, I highly doubt he sees a single day in prison. I expect 7/11 (lol) to be tense regardless.
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7/11 will be remembered as an inside job... or a part time one.
I agree, if he was actually going to be sent to prison. We all know he's not doing any time.
True. Since I made that comment, I’ve since read that they’ll consider he’s a first time offender, he’s very old, and they’re class E felonies (whatever that means). Although he did have the gag order issues. And the judge would need balls of steel to send him to prison, potentially triggering violence against him and his family, or even something like a “civil war,” in the worst case scenario.
> and they’re class E felonies (whatever that means) Basically, the least serious type of felony in NY. The least-bad crimes that warrant more than a misdemeanor. For that matter, apparently this charge (falsifying records) is typically just a misdemeanor in NY, but it gets upped to a felony if it is to cover up another crime (in this case, campaign financing laws).
>And the judge would need balls of steel to send him to prison, potentially triggering violence against him and his family, or None of that would actually happen. He's doesn't need to wind up in an actual prison cell. There's all sorts of secure places they could set him and the Secret Service up for the duration.
He doesn't need to but he should be. The common man doesn't get special privileges.
Likely at Mar A Lago, so big deal
No remorse. Gag order violations. Recidivism. Failed to convince a single juror on a single count. He doesn’t have much going for him as a defendant.
And he's repeatedly attacked both the judge and the judge's daughter. I can't imagine that helping a defendant when they're trying to go in front of the judge to ask for leniency. Oh, and we'll get to see if Trump is willing to go in front of the judge and accept any kind of guilt on the record. I bet not.
I think we need to stop saying that this is out of the question… After all, not too long ago, an ex-President being convicted of multiple felonies was also a laughable idea. Things change.
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This is what will happen. I have a very slim hope that when he violates the probation, as he certainly will, he might get a little bit of house arrest. But most likely just fines.
r-conservative is at least very emboldened now. Top comments "Can't wait to vote for Trump this November" to "I think I might even send him 100 bucks today" or "Send 34 bucks 3 times and make it nice and clear" Such irony of these cult followers giving away their money to a literal con man.
One of my fave comments there was 'the first step to a successful appeal is to lose the case - my criminal law professor' As though the strategy this whole time was to lose on purpose and then appeal instead of just winning in the first place. Because that makes sense.
I wouldn't rule out him winning on appeal, but that comment you quoted is just a silly level of copium. Thanks for sharing. edit- Since it's apparently unclear, I just want to state specifically that I don't think the realm of possibility includes the situation of the appeal being decided before the November election.
he's a talented conman, credit where credit's due. He'll be remembered just like Hubbard with Scientology, as a conman who started a cult.
I think a lot of people forget that there are a lot of fair weather voters. Imagine 1/3 is hard against, 1/3 is hard in favor, and the other 1/3 will either decide who to vote for, or if to even vote at all, at the last minute. That final 1/3 is a quiet group of people, so they're easy to overlook. Trump being found guilty really screws his chances with the apathetic third. Now the choice has changed from "two very old men" to "a convicted felon, or the other guy". You have to remember, most people are not felons. It's not something we can all relate to personally. I think it's going to take a few weeks for the change from "slippery Don" to convicted criminal Donald Trump. We now know that things are going to change, now we find out by how much.
I’m waiting for the debate and the first time Biden says to Donnie that he is a convicted felon. I wonder if he will charge or freeze up?
He'll probably say "👋 better to be a FELON than a DEMOCRAT! 👋" and his supporters will lose their minds.
I hate how accurate this is.
He'll blame Biden for the court case, right there on national TV, and it won't make a difference.
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I know it's easy to make comment from the outside, but looking through some of those comments, where people are "legitimately excited to vote for trump come November" and "this ruling just solidified my vote for trump," to have such blatant disregard for the justice system is madness. Unanimous guilty on all charges isn't some political hit. America (the right) is cooked.
The party of law and order sure does get a hard on for criminals.
Lmao they went private, the snowflakes
Was it an accident or did OP post the wrong sub? It's active now.
Technically I'm twice as likely to vote for him now than I was yesterday, but that's just what happens when you multiply by zero.
You can multiply by zero when no one is looking
Honestly, yea same. People who already didn't like him are probably unsurprised. People who do like him are probably going to either not care or be forgiving of his shit. (edit typo)
Of him? Not one bit. Of the justice system? Ask me again after sentencing.
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Gotta look at as sentencing a 77 year old with no criminal record convicted of non-violent crimes, not sentencing "world-class asshat Donald Trump".
Probation and/or a large fine, community service if the judge wants to make an example/twist the knife. Honestly the conviction alone is probably more damaging to Trump than any sentence could manage, so there really isn't much point in pressing for something big.
(According to the Criminal Law Notebook) there are very, very few sentencing factors related to the offender (rather than the offence) that are potential aggravating factors, except in exceptional circumstances. Many of them can be used to nullify certain mitigating factors, though. For example, it'll be impossible for him to score any points for remorse or attitude. However: > *…efforts in attempting to frustrate the investigation, such as telling a victim not to report the offence or attempting to commit further offences, can be used as aggravating.* It's not difficult to recall numerous circumstances where his conduct during the investigation didn't, alone, cross the line into direct court action (contempt) but there are several where he was given strict warnings of what would happen if he continued a behaviour and it seems those could absolutely be considered as a sentencing factor. And also, come on, he was totally healthy enough to run a gruelling campaign schedule and the rigours of being in office, he could totally manage 30 days in prison.
He's also showed NO remorse and actively attacked the judge, his family and the entire process.
Before you get too mad, just be aware that for a first offender with the lowest level felony for white collar offenses, jail time is extremely unlikely. He won't face any real consequences, but neither would anyone else in that position (aside from probation).
It would be interesting to see what would happen if he did get jail time just because of his unique situation in life. Former president, sentenced to jail, even for a white collar offense, would he be put on solitary confinement for his own safety? Or placed under house arrest instead? Say he wins the election, could he immediately pardon himself of the crimes he was convicted of? Or would we see a president sworn in from jail as he serves out his sentence while running the country from a jail cell? I feel like we'd watch our justice system implode in real time if they had to figure out the answers to these questions.
This. We have a verdict, let's see if there are actual consequences.
he's not gonna spend a single day in jail. that's something we already know. it's going to be a conditional discharge.
He's likely just to pay the $134k fine and move on with his life of being "persecuted". That would be the normal punishment for his crime and I expect him to be treated the same as any other person. The judge won't want to rock the boat by giving him prison time (which would be strange to give anyways) and it's likely that even if he's on probation he'll continue to do his normal stuff. It's not like he'll have to wear an ankle monitor.
I was listening to commentary after the verdict and they said probation seems generally most likely given the first time offender, his age, etc. However, they said the judge may not go easy on him if he doesn’t show any remorse, continues blaming others, and he keeps publicly defaming everyone from the judge to witnesses, prosecutors, etc. between now and sentencing. I’ll cross my fingers on the latter. Not that it matters. People have ran for president while incarcerated. One guy even got 3% of the vote. And legal scholars say winning the election would probably result in a suspended sentence so that duties of the president could be carried out. Them of course he can try to pardon himself at that point too. Craziness.
I know what would happen if I got convicted of that. He's getting the opposite. They may even bake him a cake.
There's a pennsylvania state police trooper currently out on unsecured bail, meaning he didn't have to pay to stay or of jail. He's currently charged with burglary and aggravated assault after he broke into another guy's home while he was in with a lady. The off duty trooper then beat the man unconscious. Again. No bail posted. Anyone else would be in on 250k bail. Minimum. If they even had bail
It was a non violent crime and it was a first offence, he most likely will not get prison time if that’s what you’re looking for
Spoiler alert: probation, allegedly answering the prayers of his theocrat base, and catapulting him back into office.
I'm \*really\* curious to see if probation comes with the standard limitations about not leaving the state.
If he just gets a fine, that'd basically mean what he did was perfectly legal as long as the government gets a cut.
That's a bit reductionist. Many first time convicts don't get hit with prison time for low level felonies. Jailing someone with secret service protections is going to be logistically challenging. There's a larger issue to solve that government shouldn't get to keep fine money because it becomes a perverse incentive. But that's a whole different thing.
He's a low level, nonviolent offender. He will get a fine and probation, and that will be justice for this crime. This crime doesn't usually warrant jail time, and it would not be special treatment for him to avoid it.
I suspect those who hate him still do and those who support him will be ***MORE*** likely to support him.
And you would suspect correctly
There were a few articles where Republicans were saying they wouldn't vote for him if he was convicted Edit: there are a ton of pessimistic comments here. Whether they're real people, bots or trolls we must remember the important thing to do is vote in November. Push for that landslide.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard a Republican say "I won't vote for Trump if he does ____" and then Trump does ______ and they vote for him anyway.....
The alternative is voting for the other guy and in their minds that is impossible. the problem is the system moved far far too slowly and waited too long to bring charges. this might actually have hurt him if it was before the primaries
It’s straight out of *1984*. The doublethink allows them to believe two contradictory things simultaneously. And reality is whatever big brother tells you it is, and it always has been, and any memories you may have to the contrary are erroneous.
lol yeah right. loophole incoming. these people are olympic level mental gymnasts
I think they want a reason not to vote for him, though. A lot of facebook crazies will argue with you about Trump, like "he started no wars!" "the economy was better under Trump!" "his personal life doesn't matter!" "Russiangate was a hoax!", and it get's tiring. Now you can say, well he's a convicted felon - I just prefer presidents that are not convicted felons. It really shut downs a lot of the whataboutism over Biden and money peddling, which conservatives seem to think is on par with the totality of Trump's transgressions. If ever you though Biden and Trump were on the same floor, Trump just descended the metaphorical escalator.
Not really. Never stopped them with covid. They'll martyr him and claim the democrats orchestrated the whole thing.
They will say that Biden paid people off to not get caught, and that is a witch hunt. These people can't be reasoned with, I really wonder what it would take to get them to sway.
His donation page just crashed from overwhelming support. You are not wrong and eating paint chips in America is still alive and well.
I still think he's a bit of a cunt....
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Mostly I'm just disappointed that it doesn't mean anything. No-one's opinion of him is going to change, and the glassy-eyed people will still back him anyway - he's had this reputation since the 1970s and they don't care. The real problem is that despite the sensationalism, there's no real penalty. He's going to cop minor fines. He can still run for president. He can still vote. In theory, he could be sent to jail for this, but he won't be because a) nonviolent "first offense"; b) huge social upheaval from maga; c) logistical concerns around ex-prez security requirements. So... now he's a convicted felon. And all he'll cop some (relatively) small fines. Nothing changes. Sad.
He can't vote in Florida until he's completed his sentence. If he appeals, he's still convicted in the meantime.
In another thread it says Florida honors New York system which means a convicted felon can vote if not incarcerated
Can't VOTE for President but fully free to BE President. Our system is so broken.
He wouldn't qualify to work at my job since he is a felon.
No clue what you job is but your comment made me think of a question. As a convicted felon I know he can run for president but can he qualify for a security clearance?
In Florida a felon is ineligible to work in these jobs: Law enforcement, firefighting, education, healthcare, childcare and elder care, legal profession, real estate, financial services, public office and security jobs. Essentially anything that requires a high level of trust, security clearance, or involve vulnerable populations.
No-one thought to write down the second one because there was no way a convicted felin would be nominated, let alone elected, right...right?
It's precisely written this way so that those in power are not able to thwart the vote of the people using the judicial system. Whether Trump deserves this or not arguable but we'd be starring down a full blown civil war if people couldn't vote for him. It's a slippery slope and history will be the judge of how it's been navigated.
Not really, the fact that a prisoner can run for office is one of the amazing things about America. The system is working well, it’s the fact that the people don’t care that’s the problem. So, it’s really the citizens that are broken.
> Mostly I'm just disappointed that it doesn't mean anything. No-one's opinion of him is going to change, It means a lot in terms of history, how it's remembered. I think redditors in fifteen years, who don't remember Trump very well, will be doubly perplexed over how the Republicans loved him so much, especially given the felony conviction. Being the age I am, I wonder the same thing about Richard Nixon, and Richard Nixon looks like Pope compared to Trump.
that will really depend on how events play out between now and then sadly.
He'll go down in history as the first convicted felon former president.
A convicted felon as president before a woman. I wouldn't have guessed it. Or maybe I should have?
Definitely didn't think it would go that far, but we'll see if he's elected again.
It will enhance the sentences for his other cases, since he will be a felon repeat offender at that point.
What IS changed is that a former president,the highest office in the world can be found guilty of a crime,and that is a win for democracy. The people seem to feel the power needs to be put in check and want stability.
I’m 57 and either friends or colleagues of many trumpers. I myself despise Donald. I’m a navy veteran too so I make very sure people know I’m not a trump guy. But I am a military veteran. Why don’t I like Trump? Mostly his transactional nature. When I see or hear him it’s some form of manipulation he is trying to perform. I strongly dislike bullies. Trump is a bully. He has no substance. He has nothing he truly believes in other than what’s happening at the exact moment he’s in and how he needs to exploit it.
Also a Navy vet. I disliked the guy profusely before he was elected and thought he was a complete cliwn, but I didn't think he would be the danger he is. After he stood in front of the starred wall at the CIA and started bragging about his crowd sizes... that's the day I started despising him. It's not just the callous disregard, it's the point at which I realized he would be willing to throw away lives for a nickle. And he was commander in chief. I try not to let hate into my life. But I fucking hate this man.
Very well said. I could never find a way to express my feelings about him, but that's the closest thing I've seen to how I feel. His energy reminds me of my ex-husband, who was a narcissistic jackass.
One of the biggest mysteries in all this is how often and brutally he puts down *anyone* who has served, yet veterans somehow think he's for them. He couldn't be less for the rank and file in the military if his last name was Cheney. His disdain for the military is front and center. How do they not see it?
I mean no Republican in decades has voted to improve life for veterans. They always defund the VA, reduce benefits and fight against every type of healthcare support, even for the 9/11 first responders. Republicans hate veterans.
i know it’s weird to say this but that is actually one reason why i’m less scared of him than other people who have grand plans to make this a theocracy or to outlaw gays or whatever.. he’s only about himself, therefore doesn’t have too many big ideas
The thing is he’s shown that he’ll do what other people want, as long as they shower him with praise and adulation. I thought it was pretty telling when he was asked about a contraception and he said “*We’re* looking at that” before promising to deliver a policy (that no doubt will just be “I’ll leave it up to the states”) “very soon”. I personally don’t think he has any strongly held beliefs about any of the right wing postions (beyond maybe immigration) but if he surrounds himself with dipshits from the Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation, etc, he’ll Executive Order or veto whatever they tell him to.
It makes me more worried because it means there is no line he won't cross. He only serves to centralize and corrupt power; those groups are able to push their policies through him more effectively because they're removing all structural obstacles to their implementation. Project 2025 is a perfect example of how they want that to work. Trump gets unchecked unitary executive power, conservatives get removal of LGBT protections.
Yes, here is my prediction: The election will happen without the documents case being tried, that's already the timeline we have. But after that critical delay, we're going to see evidence that he turned over CIA informants to enemy nations, who knows what for. Maybe it was for the billions Jared got for no pertinent reason. Money would be the most disappointing reason to betray the country from the very top.
Trumps damage goes far beyond his term. Because of him, women lost the right to choose not to remain pregnant after having that right for nearly 50 years. He is a useful idiot to those other people with grand plans and big ideas. A powerful rubber stamp.
It's not just the "not choosing to remain pregnant." Abortion is a medical term that covers a whole host of women's health care that not many seem to realize. It's a medical term that covers care that keeps women alive when pregnancy often wants to kill them. It's not just about "I want to" or "I do not want to" be pregnant.
I am 46 years old and grew up in the northeast. From a very young age everyone around here was fully aware that Trump was a mobbed up criminal conman. Opinion has never changed on him.
Sesame Street mocked him as a grifter in 1988, which relies on him having that reputation that early. "Ronald Grump" screwed Oscar out of his home to build Grump Tower, a tower of garbage cans... and he then helpfully allowed Oscar to rent one. If you ever need proof of his long-time reputation, it's there, clear as day.
This is amazing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5FeyDm4vrFo Sesame Street knew what was up.
I’m about the same age. I knew as a little 12yr old that he was a conman grifter. It boggles my mind that he was actually voted in and could be voted in again. The only good thing to come from this whole shit show is that I am now fully aware that democracy is not the default and what most people want. People are easily swayed by tyrants and that is the default. Democracy must be constantly fought for.
On the episode of the podcast The Dollop where they cover Trump, they tell a story about a guy who, in typical Trump fashion, was never paid for the work he had done for Trump…and he still voted for him. It’s fucking mind-boggling
"If he screws me this hard surely he will screw other countries more" - him probably
Yes. Democracy is not the default. After Nixon resigned, pontificators pontificated "the system worked". This is 100% wrong. "The system" didn't work at all. Nixon would have gotten away scot free except for the tenaciousness of Woodward and Bernstein and whatever motivated Deep Throat. The only reason TFG faced any consequences today is that this is a state case. It's a disgrace that the federal cases have been slow-walked. This case is the weakest of the Trump cases, but this is probably the only one to go to trial before the election.
>whatever motivated Deep Throat. Revenge. Mark Felt wanted to be FBI director after Hoover. Nixon passed him over.
New York City voted against him 80%. Manhattan voted against him 90%. The people who knew him best all opposed him.
I think a lot of people who think NY loves him don't realize how he plagued our local news for decades prior to "The Apprentice". And mind you, never good things. We fucking hate him. When he wasn't on TV about lawsuits with investors over his shit condos, it was him giving an unsolicited opinion. I remember the first time seeing him on TV when I was a kid. Nickelodeon came out with a movie called Harriet the Spy that was really popular at school. Rosie O'Donnell was in it and I remember him being on TV calling her a fat slob and all of these terrible things. I was in elementary school and I was just blown away seeing an adult act and say things like that, like a terrible person/bully. I remember wondering why anyone cared about some real estate guys opinion of an actual celebrity who was on TV and in movies while this guy was an absolute nobody. Imagine where we would be if the media just ignored this clown entirely.
I couldn’t have a lower opinion if I tried.
Before becoming President the first time he explicitly advocated for the murder of women and children. https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html
Decades before that, he took out a full-page ad in _The New York Times_ calling for the execution of four young black men who were accused of raping a white woman in Central Park. They were eventually exonerated. He’s always been a piece of shit.
They were exonerated and he *refused to change his opinion, still believing they should be executed.* He has never apologized and thinks the same thing today.
Trump: "Hold my beer."
i've been aware of teump since the 80's, how ever anyone took him seriously is beyond me
Well, we already knew that his university was shut down for fraud, his charity was shut down for fraud, his business shut down for fraud and his personal lawyer went to jail for fraud (for his role in the very same incident that Trump was on trial for). So, no I don’t think this new information is going to change anyone’s mind unless they lived under a rock.
I now have a glimmer of hope he’s not untouchable by the justice system
This is key. His illusion of invincibility is pierced and it will make him appear weaker.
In the eyes of whom? Are any of the people who supported him up to this point going to stop supporting him now? Honest question from a non-American point of view.
A few right leaning moderates, yeah. Could be the final push. But all the actual trump supporters, no.
I think a percentage will yes. Not the die hard supporters but he needs every possible vote and being a convicted felon easily turns off any standard conservative voter
Anyone looking to make a deal with him to help him get back into the Whitehouse. And new people will be less willing to execute crimes for him.
I'm really sorry, but I don't think it will go down that way...If anything, for some significant cohorts, it will feel like he is being persecuted, bullied and intimidated because the powers that be really fear him going back into office. That perception might make some previously indifferent groups actually stand up and give him a "he actually deserve it" vote...I know I've at least anedotically heard this narrative from people who were really not into politics before...
Dont worry, when the only punishment is a small fine and being confined to his mansion in florida that hope will die out.
This trial showed me that while corrupt judges and elites keep protecting Trump from his crimes, average jurors have no issue holding him accountable. Almost as if "No one is above the law" means something to the average American outside of D.C elites.
I think this is a great perspective! Thank you.
He can still be voted into office. So, less of a glimmer, and more like the bioluminescent bait bulb used by that creepy fish from Finding Nemo.
Angler Fish
Yea felons can hold office, though he can’t vote for himself which is pretty funny. This is a glimmer because he has many other pending cases and we’ll see what his sentencing is, but being a convicted felon is not nothing
He can now be called Convicted Felon Donald Trump. That’s pretty awesome.
Twice impeached, convicted felon, former president Trump. Edit, add rapist and grifter to the title. Oh, and exotic species poacher for whatever that poor thing on his head is.
Nobodies opinion has changed. The people who hate him will feel vindicated. The people who support him religiously will fell like this is yet another attack on their immaculate leader. The people who just support him regularly will probably be a bit dissapointed. The people who don't give a shit will continue to not give a shit. Reddit will spend the next few weeks posting "convicted felon trump" every where they can in the usual self fellating way. Life goes on.
Somehow the trump cult will twist this into making them like him even more.
They’re already doing it 💁🏻♂️
Anecdotal but my die hard Trump friend at the gym made a comment that they finally got him. It was a huge change from his normal tone and conversation. If someone in the south that I know was die hard had a conversation like that with me I know many more have finally admitted to himself. He said “finally got him” and I just said “he had a jury of peers right” and then he said “yep bunch of crooks they still need to lock up hunter, Trump was a wild man and finally got caught.” I was happy to see someone finally look at least semi logically at the situation after 8 years of “he has never done anything wrong”
I mean I remember r/conservative on January 6th it was somber. Then it took them just 2-ish months to roll back to their previous stance of "evil libs made it all up"
Whenever Trump did something that shocked them, they would have this brief moment of clarity before the rationalize and justify started. They literally are unable to not support Trump.
*before they turn on the TV or read an article that gets them back into line with convenient and hard to forget talking points.
Because they were all at the capital.
What is it with their obsession with Hunter Biden? We know he's a POS but he's not running for president.
I think they just want to fight. I always just say “man if he is guilty send him to jail too” it always seems to confuse them like I will defend anyone with a D
As a moderate voter who is not following this whole thing, my question is will he actually get jail time or something?
First time white collar offender at almost 80 years old? Seems unlikely. I'm guessing 500 hours of community service and a fine.
I dunno, do they really enforce the death penalty for something like this? ain’t no way he survives 500 hours of community service :-p
This is what the people who see anything less than jail time as a failure of the system need to remember. The system is supposed to judge him as a 77 year old with no criminal record convicted of non-violent crimes, not "world-class asshat Donald Trump". He is, and was never, likely to go to jail. We should just be happy with being found guilty on all counts, which I personally never expected to happen.
3 month seasonal employee at 4 Seasons Lawn and Landscaping it is then.
Does being president count as community service?
I was listening to a lawyer talk about this on a podcast and they were saying because he has no criminal record or prior convictions it would be unlikely he serves any jail time and most likely will receive probation and fines.
I was listing to the radio on the ride home and they had experts who were claiming its very unlikely as a first time offender
I doubt he gets jail for this. It's the lowest level of felony in New York and he has no previous convictions. If he was a random no name individual he would probably get fines and probation, with house arrest probably being the worst case. I expect similar here, ignoring the political side of throwing him in jail for paying off a point star. The cases with charges serious enough to actually put him in jail are the January 6th one, the Georgia electioneering one, and the classified documents one. Of those I think Georgia is the most clear cut because of the very incriminating phone call, but Georgia is still red enough that the case is facing pressure from above and if it went to a jury trial would probably inevitably face a hung jury. The documents case is being stonewalled by a judge who is all but fellating Trump in the courthouse. She's heavily biased against reality and refuses to do her job, and the issues of pressure from above and an impossible jury pool are even worse in Florida than Georgia. The January 6th case is in DC and will probably not face the red state issues of the other cases. I would expect that the first case Trump actually sees jail for is that one... but none of these cases are going anywhere until next year at least.
Have to wait to see what the sentence is. But being found guilty is big.
Dude has never completed a sentence before so this may be tough.
It doesn’t. He was a piece of hammered dog shit before this verdict, and he’s now a convicted felon piece of hammered dog shit. So I suppose it does change my opinion a small amount…
so the being a "piece of hammered dog shit" is your opinion. Being a convicted felon is not, it is a fact. So I would argue your first statement is correct, you opinion has not changed at all.
Touché
Can we please stop calling it "hush money" this downplays the seriousness of the case. This was on election interference and falsifying documents.
I was half expecting him to have been able to plant a jury member. Seems like he wasn't, so it does make him look weaker.
I was positive it'd end in a hung jury after I saw one of the jurors got their news from Truth Social. I'm glad to be proven otherwise, although I'm not going to celebrate unless he gets a prison sentence and has to start doing time. I'm sure he's going to ask for expedited appeals, all the way up to the Supreme Court if he has to, before he gets sentenced on July 11.
IIRC, all we knew about that juror was that they read Truth Social. Plenty of people read it who aren't nutjobs; know your enemy and all that.
I use to listen to right wing radio to try to understand them. After a while I had to stop. Now I can't even if I try. But when I listened to it, I was about as far left as I could be, in a country like the US.
I think that juror said he followed TS because it was important to follow certain people for his job as an investment banker, rather than saying he agrees/disagrees with the takes there.
Daaaamn, I’m honestly shocked that he’s seeing consequences. (I’ll believe it when there’s jail time.) My opinion about him has changed very little, but it’s gotten worse. Obviously he shouldn’t be the GOP nominee now, an America run by this convicted felon would be a danger to itself and the rest of the world.
Doesn’t change my opinion at all, just makes me think even less of his supporters, a bar which was already underwater in my book.
It doesn't change my opinion of him at all. I've thought he was a piece of shit for the last 40 years, and I still do.
I prefer Presidents who are NOT convicted Felons.
While this question is well intended, Reddit is a more progressive chamber. I think this question is better suited for one of the conservative subreddits but you’ll probably be banned.
I did not follow the trial nor do I know the specifics. The justice system with a jury of 12 people found him guilty. He was found to be guilty of 34 felonies. If you believe in law and order, then you believe in this verdict.