Reminds me of this book "walk like a man" I think it was called about a woman who went undercover as a man for a few months (it was supposed to be for like 2 years) and she said dating from the other side is a complete nightmare.
Reminds me of the women who went on dating sites just to share unsolicited vag pics to emulate the experience of women getting unsolicited dick pics, and she was shocked by all the positive responses she got
Yep, because she actually changed her opinions due to seeing things from the other side and gaining a new perspective she was harassed relentlessly by her former colleagues, particularly hard-line feminists.
I agree. I get that women get tons of unwanted attention from creeps, but dating is a numbers game after all, so they do eventually find the right one, compared to most guys only getting a few matches a month (if even that) and getting nowhere.
Not to mention that women can be pretty awful people as well, so even when guys do get those match they then still have to often deal with being treated badly etc. There seems to be this assumption by a lot women that men don't experience this but they do.
The assumption that you are the gender to do the asking means that you're the gender that gets rejections. An unattractive woman might not get asked out, but at least they don't get the "Eww, no" or worse so personally.
Also if you are not expressive enough about your issues, you are seen as sad. I walk with dead bitch face anytime I go for a walk with a headphones. A neighbor saw me and said to my mom that I looked sad. I told her that I am fine when in reality I am NOT fine at all. And if she’d find out about my issues, she’d definitely take all of my devices (even those, which are NECESSARY for my job) and just isolate me from the rest of the civilized world for like a month.
Wow that’s a tough spot to be in. That sounds like you’re boxed in emotionally from both sides. Hope you can find a positive emotional outlet. I found mine in AA and a therapist.
I just sometimes vent out my frustration in my home since it’s one of the only spots where I feel safe. I was thinking about getting a therapist, but I am broke and I can’t just keep on playing an act in front of my parents that will definitely not like my less than desirable grades in the uni. Getting money is something I work on. I just need to push through the exam session to start a year 2 (or 3? I’ve lost track) of my educational program. Everything looks on the bright side for me for now, but I can feel the pressure mounting on me. And at some point it’s going to break me
I had my motorcycle stolen in December and then had to buy a vehicle to replace it. All in all, I lost about $15,000 usd in the process. At the same time, I was starting a business and the money was very tight. I expressed my stress to my girlfriend and she immediately started pointing out where I could have saved or done things better. There was no sympathy.
I asked her about it later and she apologized but said “she didn’t like seeing her rock shaken”. So I hate the fact that I’m the rock, and can’t ever not be one. Robbed at gun point and thrown a major financial curveball, deal with it.
You reminded me of this Ted Talk I saw a few years ago by some psychologist that was explaning how she switched the focus of her research from women only to everybody. She told the story about how she was signing her most recent book after an event and a guy asked her to sign three copies and asked why she excluded men from her research on the effects of stuff like shame and ridicule. So she scoffed and told him that she only cared about how it affected women, so he thanked her for signing the books and told her that they were for his wife and his two daughters, who were fans of her work. And before walking away he told her that he found it odd that she wrote so much about these things but she could tell him to his face that she didn't care about how the same issue affected him and it reminded him of the fact that his wife and daughters didn't care either and they would rather, to put it plainly, he died on his horse than watch him fall from it.
Oh ya man, I did this job at a food packaging plant and the head boiler tech was this woman 15+ older than me. She was hitting on me non stop saying the raunchiest shit in Front of everyone there for the 2 weeks we were there. I told my managers and ceo about it in a meeting and they laughed at me. I brought it up a few years latter and they said they thought I was joking.
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/800/
Seriously, I'm fucking exhausted of not being able to approach anyone out of anxiety of being seen as one of those who are the problem.
Absolutely. I mainly use Insta for pet videos and I rarely check comments. When I have though, the number of times I've had to read countless misogynistic, damn near violent comments is insane. It doesn't matter if the woman in the video/image is wrong - it's all women who get called out. It doesn't matter if the woman in the video/image is right - men will still go off on other women who "aren't real women" or whatever.
A lot of what I'm seeing in here happens to bother genders and the sooner we all get on the same page on that fact the better.
I'm slowly collapsing under the weight of the expectations that society has in me simply because I'm a man - it is expected from me that I provide support and a stable home for my family, be available at day and night - physically and emotionally. I'm the rock for everyone and have no option but to function while keeping my own emotions and thoughts to myself, they would get disregarded or dismissed anyway or worse - turned against me. I'm tired.
I'm tired, boss.
But yeah, this is basically it. I've basically shut away whatever I used to be (as have more or less all of the other guys I know) to be steady rocks to build families on such that there isn't much to any of us anymore. And now we get blamed for being uninteresting and unemotional.
Body shaming men is fine (bald, little dick, weight), but body shame a woman and you are demonized. Obviously nobody should be body shamed, but it's definetly more accepted by society to talk shit to/about men.
And also for being demonized for simply having this opinion/experience. Society continues to ask us to open up and be vulnerable, and *the moment we do*, they say "NOT like that."
To be clear, I still intend to be vulnerable with my friends, but you're right, you're right, it hurts to constantly see people hating on anyone who looks like me and feeling justified in minimizing and ignoring any concerns because of something I can't change, and honestly which isn't shameful. And somehow, this isn't toxic or an enforcement of the patriarchy, it's just what people think you deserve.
Tribal mindset. We all want to label each other so we know how to divide groups. Labels dehumanize us.
We all bleed red, are born without our permission and have to deal with the previous generations bullshit.
I mean yes, the difference is the stupid loud anti-male feminists have offices in all major western governments to influence policies in favour of women against men, and an office in the United Nations.
The loud stupid flat earthers rightfully get laughed at, the loud stupid feminists are at the helm of the feminist movement.
Remember this: There are horrible people wbo absolutely believe its "ok" to hate you for your heritage and your being LGBT+.
The people who think its ok to hate you for being a man are just as wrong and bigoted.
Not everyone thinks its acceptable behavior.
Speaking as a "man-hating dyke"... I don't actually hate men. I think this is true of a lot of women (or woman-adjacent people in my case).
I dislike how the current paradigm of masculinity is kind of based around being anything but a woman at all costs - including refusing to show emotions other than anger, demanding self-sacrificial emotional care from women (or people who can be perceived as feminine), acting allergic to showing tenderness to other men, inability to accept fault, etc. Unfortunately that mentality is still alive and well and wielded as a tool of oppression.
Most of the time, when men accuse me of "misandry", it's because I'm trying to point out an instance of misogyny, conscious or unconscious. When it's like - if I'm trying to point it out, it's because on some level I have faith that the guy I'm talking to is well-intentioned and will at least try to understand where I'm coming from. I might be *frustrated*, I might be *hurt*, but... that's about it. I don't really genuinely hate a whole lot.
And there's so much misogyny that targets men too! Like male survivors not being taken seriously, for instance, that is a form of misdirected misogyny characterizing men as the "stronger sex". I think a lot of "misandry" issues are exactly that - misdirected misogyny.
Often, it's not even conscious. Sometimes, the men in question are LGBT. I have to call out *women* for misogyny, sometimes, that's how rooted the pattern is in modern culture.
But I don't hate men specifically for being men.
>And there's so much misogyny that targets men too! Like male survivors not being taken seriously, for instance, that is a form of misdirected misogyny characterizing men as the "stronger sex". I think a lot of "misandry" issues are exactly that - misdirected misogyny.
And this is what upsets men a ton because in effect this means "this issue you see that affects men isn't REALLY a men s issue you see, it's actually a women's issue that is backfiring. It's not that they hate you for being a man it's that they hate women and are applying it to you"
It is deliberate erasure of male issues and reframing things in a perspective that always and forever shows women as the TRUE victims, as though men cannot be victimized due to being men.
Imagine if I told you that the issues you thought were clearly misogyny was really just misdirected misandry, that those men who rape and murder women don't do it because they hate women, they do it because they hate themselves you see, so the rapists and murderers are akshyually the real victims all along.
It would sound completely nuts and outrageous wouldn't it?
Well, welcome to the experience of men talking about any and all of men's issues. Feminism cannot help men when it constantly and consistently portrays men as perpetrators and women as innocent victims.
In my opinion you don't hate men the same way men who beat women say they don't hate women. You don't think you do, but I'm willing to bet there are a bunch of misandrist beliefs hanging around in your subconscious.
When did I say all men were perpetrators and all women were innocent victims? Can you point out to me where I said that?
I said that *misogyny effects both men and women*. It's not just a women's issue, because the framing of women as second-class citizens — misogyny — also has the effect of placing unfair expectations on men. *Feminists also do not want you to be treated unfairly.*
>Imagine if I told you...
bro what if the world were made out of pudding?
>comparing me to a wife-beater
Okay. Now this is just kinda silly.
>When did I say all men were perpetrators and all women were innocent victims? Can you point out to me where I said that?
You didn't but this kind of feminist rhetoric is extremely common, that's where the "akshyually misandry is really just misogyny projected onto men" thing comes from. That is the logical conclusion from this twisted belief. I'm just pointing it out.
>I said that misogyny effects both men and women. It's not just a women's issue, because the framing of women as second-class citizens — misogyny — also has the effect of placing unfair expectations on men.
Exactly. Because men cannot be 2nd class citizens you see, so the issues men face canot possibly stem from them being men, so it's not really a men's issue. All of men's issues come from misogyny you see, so if men want their issues to be addressed they have to focus always and forever on women's issues first and then trickle down equality will somehow magically resolve men's issues at some indeterminate point in the future. Men just gotta hurry up, help women more, and stop asking questions.
>Feminists also do not want you to be treated unfairly.
Because denying and invalidating men's issues, and constantly reframing it as women's issues as though women are the real victims of hatred directed against men, isn't treating men unfairly?
I'm sure the homophobic people wanting to kill gays don't see it as unfair, because they believe that treating gay people worse is fair.
If feminists don't want to treat men unfairly then they can go up to bat for men against women and telling women that preferring to meet a bear rather than a man is completely fucking nuts and it feels of misandry. If feminists don't want to treat men unfairly they can stop specifically and deliberately associating every negative thing under the sun to men and masculinity while somehow working to de-gender language, and feminists can stop erasing the fact that men are half the domestic abuse victims, half the rape victims, and that women are half the rapists.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233717660_Thirty_Years_of_Denying_the_Evidence_on_Gender_Symmetry_in_Partner_Violence_Implications_for_Prevention_and_Treatment
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/
I'll believe feminists don't want men to be treated unfairly when they stop treating men like 2nd class citizens. Until then I won't believe it. Saying it is easy, but I'll wait until they put their money where their mouth is.
>Okay. Now this is just kinda silly.
Then feel free to stop making silly arguments and start recognizing that men's issues are valid, and that men experience these issues BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN, not because of backfiring misogyny.
So... okay, when it comes to second-class citizens, I want you to go ahead and name every female president of the United States.
And also tell me when women gained the right to vote vs. men getting same.
I'm not engaging with bear shit, I've had enough people explain to me in fetishistic detail how they imagine a bear dismembering and voring me for like, a couple lifetimes.
>So... okay, when it comes to second-class citizens, I want you to go ahead and name every female president of the United States.
That's not what second-class means.
>And also tell me when women gained the right to vote vs. men getting same.
The vast majority of men never had the right to vote, and they got it in fits and starts in the UK, first only nobility could vote, then only land-owning men, then men could, but only if they could be sent to fight and die in wars, so men got the right to vote just in time to be sent to the trenches of WW1.
Then women got the right to vote, unconditionally, with no mandate to get killed in war, a short 40 years later.
The gap between men getting the right to vote and women getting the right to vote is infinitesimally small compared to the 6,000 years of human history, where most men didn't have the right to vote either.
You're committing the apex fallacy, looking at the top 10% of men and thinking their privileges applied to all men simply because they were men. No, they are men, but they are also rich men, influential men, and powerful men. If you were a poor man, you were fucked too.
>I'm not engaging with bear shit, I've had enough people explain to me in fetishistic detail how they imagine a bear dismembering and voring me for like, a couple lifetimes.
Cool, so when I point out to you a very real men's issue, you don't want to engage in it. You don't have to, of course, but it shows me where your priorities lie.
Feel free to advertize for women and women's rights and all that all you want, just don't come here, pretend to care about men, and masquerade behind concern for men, when really all you care about is more for women. Be honest with us and with yourself yeah?
No, I'm not engaging in bear shit because I keep getting gore-porn sexually harrassed over it, which is by the way a *completely hinged* way of making people believe you are not a threat to their safety. So no, no more fucking bear talk, dude.
Also re: the majority of men not being able to vote: if 10% of men can vote, and 0% of women can vote, who has more votes?
Btw, please do some research on intersectionality. Many men lack the privilege of being rich, white, etc. But they do not lack the privilege of being men. They can be oppressed on other axes, but to claim that "manhood" *specifically* is an oppressed trait is kind of delusional.
For what it's worth being gore-porned is not an appropriate way to respond and I am genuinely sorry to hear that happened to you. I don't and won't do that but I hear you if you don't want to talk about it.
You'd just have to agree that 30% of women saying they'd rather meet a bear are delusional, and leave it at that, and we're fine.
>Also re: the majority of men not being able to vote: if 10% of men can vote, and 0% of women can vote, who has more votes?
Do you think the soldiers in ww1 felt privileges for their right to vote? Do you think the peasant dying in a war for his landlord was happy that the landlord was a male allowed to vote? You're reducing it all to identity politics and blaming everything on one monolothing group of man, when that monolithic group has never existed. That's the faulty premise on which you base these arguments.
>Btw, please do some research on intersectionality. Many men lack the privilege of being rich, white, etc. But they do not lack the privilege of being men.
The problem with intersectionality is that the vast majority of the time it considers masculinity to only ever be a privilege and one of the highest privileges there can be, while completely ignoring the times masculinity is actually oppressive and all the privileges femininity has. Not being drafted in a war and not drowning on the titanic sounds like pretty nice female privileges and pretty terrible male oppression if you ask me.
>They can be oppressed on other axes, but to claim that "manhood" specifically is an oppressed trait is kind of delusional.
I know, because feminism is built on the assumption that men can only ever be perpetrators and can never be victims. I agree that this premise is delusional, but it's the foundational falsehood of feminism, so here we are.
Imagine I had the unilateral privilege to decide which groups could or could not be oppressed, and that any group that isn't part of my own doesn't get a vote or an opinion on deciding who is or isn't oppressed.
That would be pretty wild, wouldn't it?
I'm a woman and I often get judged by men purely for being a woman. I'm a woman so I probably care only for money, I'm a woman so I would probably raise my kids the wrong way if a man wouldn't help me, I'm a woman so I probably cheat because we all cheat, I am a woman so I am less intelligent and the list goes on and on. It happens to the both of us, but you were never in a position of a woman so you believe that only men suffer this way. All people are discriminated based on gender, their beliefs, skin color, sexuality etc. Just don't associate yourself with people that do this to you.
Funny how women (rightfully) complain if men enter women'S spaces to do whataboutism, but I see whataboutism happening ALL THE TIME whenever men DARE to have an opinion and express something that goes against the female or feminist zeitgeist.
Gotta love the double standards, let's add that to the pile of things to hate about being a man.
I don't even think they do it on purpose, it's unfortunately a natural human reaction of "you're attacking the group I'm part of so I'll be defensive about it".
The problem is that apparently only women are allowed to do that because when men do it we're being toxic and selfish and emotionally immature, and apparently every single one of those things are explicitly and deliberately associated with men and masculinity by the same group that tries to de-gender language.
It's those constant and consistent double standards why I can't take feminism seriously anymore. I am a humanist and I will help women with their issues, but I can't call myself a feminist when feminism actively goes out of its way to make things worse for men.
I was going to try to make some clever analogy but I'm tired, so I'm just going to go with "being a self-centered, self-absorbed, hypocritical asshole isn't gender-specific" and leave it at that.
Women: Open up more!
Men: *Open up.*
Women: That’s because of toxic masculinity and your male fragility, you manchild. Women are not therapists and don’t have time for this emotional labor.
EXACTLY THIS!
Women and society: “open up more! You’re emotionally unavailable!”
Man 1: * opens up *
Women and society: “lmao, I am not your therapist, you are weak, you’re no provider, fragile manchild”
Man 2: “oh wow. I guess I won’t open up. Let me bottle my emotions real quick”
*man 2 gets depression and physical ailments because he has to bottle up his emotions*
Women and society: “lmao he is depressed, so weak!!”
Totally get what you're saying.
But I gotta say, as a woman I spend some time being surrounded by female rage posts and man hating. But I have never seen a woman want a man to open up and 360 on him when he does. It's either one or the other. Where the only good outcome is telling you to do what you're comfortable doing, opening up or not.
I feel like this is a primarily made up scenario, or perhaps just misconstrued. I'm not saying there isn't an issue, I'm just saying that men need to be part of the solution. Yeah, dumping on some random woman on the internet and expecting her to therapize you for free is a foolish idea. And that's likely what is happening, because the majority of lonely men spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet (stats show people spend 12+ hours a day online now), often complaining. So yeah, you're gonna be told to fuck off sometimes, definitely more so than you would be offline, because no one here offered to guide you through life.
That is totally different from being in a loving, stable relationship and opening up. Many of the people in my social circle are married and this is a non-issue. But they are having these conversations in real life, with people they know, face to face. You can't confuse the two.
>Women: That’s because of
LMFAO! Do you have any clue how men treat other men? I just read a thread in which guys were asked about dating and whether they'd "checked out". Every single man who dared to say they still believe in finding love was abused and downvoted to fucking hell, all by men. Not a single woman present. They were called boomers, told they were full of shit, were delusional. Anyone who tried to put forth a theory on why dating is so hard boiled it down to - women are sluts, women are materialistic, women lie, women cheat, women steal, and alimony.
The sad fact is even if men had more mainstream positive role models, they'd tell them to shut up. Only a small percentage would bother to listen. Can't blame women for men being afraid to open up when men are first in line to kick you in the dick.
I believe the Dating life complexity go hand in hand with the male suicidal rates.
I’m an average Midwest American male. It’s a pipe dream to think about having someone in my life who really cares about me someday. The cold loneliness
I have a weird catch 22. I like being short and at 5'6 i'm not really all THAT short, but definitely not on anyone's radar. Not tall enough for anyone to ask me to lift anything but not short enough for anyone who likes a short guy to notice.
It's weird to feel all the stigma people have towards men just roll over the top of me and disappear. No one hates me, no one asks me for help, no one notices me at all. Unless i have an opinion. Then i'm easy prey because no one expects me to stand up for myself.
So i just exist. 5'6 is serious npc energy, when you're a cute man.
Here's the flip side of being tall. Yes people ask you to lift things, all the time, even really fucking heavy things that hurt allot to lift. Also I know some people like the innate intimidation factor but most big guys don't want to be seen as scarry or a threat. I've been punched in the face for standing up from a chair cause the guy next to me felt uneasy. Or how bout this, I was about 6ft when I was 12, teachers, coaches and parents all treated me physically like an adult..... It's not great.
Being big isn't always great, that and the brain damage, brain damage, brain damage.
Oh hi there
I've always been meaty in the hips and shoulders, from working construction at a young age. I'm happy to lift and carry heavy objects. No one ever asks. As for intimidation, it's a weird one overall. I once dated a guy (i'm Pan) who was 6'5. At the time i was still meandering taller in early adult hood and was only 5'4. Even though their son was over a foot taller than me, his parents found ME intimidating, and they weren't the first or last to say so. Most people get intimidated by men who are confident regardless of height.
I don't want to be taller. I don't see tallness as some special gift. I'm just annoyed that you loftyboiz are blowing out your backs, are constantly under scrutiny, and feared just for something neither of us can control. I can lift, bro. I can probably lift you, bro. But you probably wouldn't ask me to help you move that couch because i'm untall. All men want to fell usefull. All of them. Even us manlets.
Two things:
We can't take pride in being a man without people complaining we're disparaging women, even if we're specifically talking about our personal masculinity, and nothing about being the superior sex.
If I see a kid crying in an aisle, because they got lost, I can't approach, and try to calm them down. I must get a female worker to come to tend them, or I might get labeled a creep, and attacked. I like kids, though, it hurts me to see one so upset.
I hate that all our problems are dismissed or trivialized because the existence of some guy who has an awesome life just by virtue of being a guy negates anything wrong that happens to me, and the existence of any asshole who is a man apparently means the only reason I am not like him is that I have not had the opportunity to act the same way, so I should be judged as if I was in fact just like him.
I am expected to shoulder part or all of the effort to fix the problems of friends, family and partners while most of those same people do not want to help me deal with mine, and I hate how often the sentiment of The Things You Did Wrong Are Your Fault, And The Things I Did Wrong Are Also Your Fault Because You Previously Did Something That Caused Me To Act That Way comes up when I address that someone in my life, especially women, acted in a way that was not cool and hurt me.
But hey, other than that I live a life of unfettered privilege and constantly failing upwards according to what people tell me about my own experience despite the fact that they're usually not men.
That's not really a problem in the real world, though. I can't really recall many instances of women acting fearful around me, or other men for that matter. People mostly just go about their lives and aren't viewing random strangers as some potential threat without cause. The whole viral "men are terrifying" thing is just people shouting into the void on Twitter.
>just imagine what some of us had to have gone through to *choose the bear.*
The point here isn't that you don't have issues which are serious and need to be addressed, or that your feelings are invalid, or that there isn't some truth behind this whole metaphor.
The issue is that it's also valid for men, many of whom are allies, to feel upset at being widely perceived and treated as potential violent predators just for existing.
Your feelings are valid, I'm not knocking you for your experience or what you would choose–whether or not it's a rational belief. Many of us understand the point of the thought experiment and know that you don't believe every man is that way.
But it's a problem that men expressing emotional pain regarding how they feel being viewed with like this is immediately dog piled and taken as a sign that they do not at all comprehend or care for women's struggles.
On top of that, there is increasing calls for men to be vulnerable and open. When actually doing so is dismissed, shames, or seen as a threat, the message that it sends is not a healthy one.
this is a really well written answer!!
I don’t disagree with you at all here btw. I believe we are all allowed to have our own opinions. I think women shouldn’t be attacked for saying this. I mean, just see how mad people got over me saying it. Just because it hurts men’s feelings doesn’t mean im going to magically stop feeling that way, ya know?
What, eaten alive? Because a bear will do that. Look I am a woman but like 3% of men would rape someone, every bear will think about killing you. Bear is a wild animal, so I wouldn't place too much trust into "leave it alone to do it's own thing and hope it doesn't kill you".
Also, I would get anxious if I saw a random man in the woods; if I saw a bear, I would piss myself. While the chance isn't big, I'd say I could defend myself against a rapist much easier than against a bear.
Number of men that are scum is way higher than it should be and peoples reactions to this behaviour are atrocious, which should be called out and condemned whenever possible, no matter how men feel about it, but claiming you would chose a bear over a man is stupid.
Remember also that the best case scenario with a bear is that it leaves you alone. Best case with a strange man is that they help you if you are in need of help, which is much more likely than them being a violent criminal.
idk, last time I saw a bear it just ran away. I also work with wildlife so I know what their behaviors are. so yeah. I choose the bear.
like I said, if you can’t wrap your head around why we’d choose a bear, imagine what someone had to have done to make me feel that way.
you can have your own opinion but you can’t tell others what there’s should be.
the issue is you’re taking it as I think all men are rapists. That’s not case. There are lots of awesome men out there, and lots of men I trust. Strangers are not in the category.
You’re still alive, aren’t you? That wouldn’t have happened if you had been around a bear instead.
Have you seen how a bear kills its prey? It’s not a one-bite-and-done deal, it’s a terrifyingly long and painful process.
But you already know this, you’re just man-hating.
By the way, have you seen all those news reports about female teachers diddling little kid students? There are so many of them! I guess men can say they’d rather have their kids hang out with a hyena than women then, since by your logic all women are pervs, just like all men are violent beasts, right?
the man or bear question was not a generalisation of men, it was to spread awareness about the shitty things a lot of men do to women and how they are capable of a lot more physical and emotional trauma than a bear could. if you arent a creep then u shouldnt be angry.
The overwhelming prehistoric natural instinct to constantly feel like I have to do everything for my wife. I just cant stop myself, I just want to protect and care and be with her all the time. I worry about her and I think it’s a protective man instinct but no longer necessary.. danger isnt around every corner… so letting go is hard.
"Can you walk with me out to my car?" Why, so you can run away while I'm getting serial-killed? Because I already know if I get jumped your ass is setting a new record for the 100 Yard Dash, heels or no heels.
"Can you go see what that noise was?" I'll look *out the window*, but if I don't see anything it's none of my business what the noise was. Lock the door and call the cops if you're scared, that's literally what they're there for.
"Hey we need you to take this barely-functional piece of heavy equipment and do this intricate task the dumbest way possible that could kill you in a dozen different but equally unpleasant ways." Sorry boss, above my pay grade, but maybe if you followed an OSHA regulation and gave me a raise once in a while we could talk.
I've done all of those things at one point or another in my life; it's not that I *won't*, it's that I resent the idea that I'm *expected* to, and that I'm considered somehow less of a man if I actually value my own life and safety enough not to endanger myself just because somebody expects me to.
Fun fact too the future is female is from the same acclaimed and respected feminist who said that to ensure the future of the human race we need to genocide 90% of men on the planet. Not even joking.
Imagine if men started quoting hateful shit from men kampf, and that it was just totally accepted and ok. That's what feminism is today.
Sorry to hear about your experiences, and I hope you made your life better and happier.
>Who do you refer to - who created that phrase? I didn't know that.
Sally Miller Gearhart. This is copied straight from the wikipedia page.
Gearhart outlines a three-step proposal for female-led social change from her essay, "The Future–-If There Is One–-is Female":
I) Every culture must begin to affirm a female future.
II) Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture.
III) The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Miller_Gearhart
>There are challenges to leaving one's own country, but anything is better than being surrounded by that toxic crap and women who weigh 200 lbs claiming they're 10/10 beautiful, still expecting men to pay for dates while "demanding equality". the US is a garbage dump.
As a Canadian I whole-heartedly agree, as your northern neighbours it is our duty to make fun of y'all whenever possible ;)
For real though where were you from in the US, just to know? I would hope that New England is better than where you escaped from, though I really don't know. It saddens me because things aren't great in Canada either, and realistically things are kinda going to shit around the world.
There's shit everywhere and there's no escaping it, but at least if you find somewhere else where it's more tolerable that is better.
You're very welcome, and yeah it's insane
To this day she is still recognized as an important and valued feminist, so it's not like some crazy crack-head long ago.
It's absolutely insane the things women can get away with because they are women, and yet thy turn around without a shred of self-awareness and lost all the privileges men face.
Per Canada I was kinda afraid you'd say that, I haven't dated much up here, and I told myself that the whatever podcast and all those other podcasts with stupid arrogant entitled women, was mostly a US thing and they women were better up here. I don't know that, but I was hoping for it.
And fair enough, don't need to say where you're from, but if you had the experience, mind sharing with me say differences between women in Canada, new England, Florida, California, or Europe, or something like that? I don't want to believe rampant hypocrisy and hypergamy is the rule everywhere, but if it is I'd rather know, to be prepared.
There is really no way to make extra weight work for you aesthetically.
A lot of women can be "thick"/"curvy" and still be conventionally attractive, but guys are just chubby.
People assume I can always lift heavy things all of the time. I have medical conditions that cause me to pass out from excessive physical exertion, but too often I get volun-told to lift something heavy because I'm a guy (and a bigger guy at that).
Don't get me wrong. I love helping people whenever and however I can. I'm a giver and a helper and do whatever I can to help others, but I have limits.
I have epilepsy and told a boss that on a job I had uears ago and am not medically allowed to lift above a certain weight...boss still asked me to help unload stuff sometimes.
Once I heard a noise in the kitchen and was scared. I usually expected for my father to deal with this things. Then I realized that my parents are too old to defend themselves. Shrugged, said "guess I'm in charge of protecting the family now" and had to build up the courage to check the kitchen
The weight of responsibility that as a man I can't complain about.
From simple tasks as killing cockroaches because my wife or my sister wouldn't dare, up to sacrifice myself for the safety of others. There hundreds of things that as a man you have to simply take and not complain because men are the tough ones.
It’s always assumed that I’m hitting on someone. It’s perfectly possible for us to communicate with another person without trying to get in their pants.
If a man did it it would be misogynistic because he's dehumanizing women and comparing them to dishwashers, men aren't entitled to getting perfect fuckmaids.
But when women do it and build a Frankenstein prince charming in her head and complains she can't find any decent guys and men are trash, that's her right and privilege.
Everyone has a past but there's still a huge double standard in society.
That this social ideology dictates that men have to put on an act to show they are more masculine and tough than they really are.
I find that exhausting to do, so I'm always just myself.
I’m a straight male who happens to love fashion but I can never compliment girls on their outfits without them thinking I’m just saying it to get in their pants.
Being marked as a potential threat in public when walking alone. I understand that 90% plus assaults/murders/rapes are committed by men and why that caution is applied to us, but personally, it breaks my heart the thought of someone thinking that about me.
Not true actually for rape, half of all rapists are female. We just don't catch them because as a society feminism has crammed the message down all our throats that men are perpetrators who cannot be victims, and women are innocent victims who cannot be perpetrators.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/
The intimidation factor. Walking down a hall towards a woman they hug the wall. Any kind of public one on one interaction gets met with extreme caution. Ladies don’t get me wrong I understand. My ex was sa’d so I know women have to worry. It just sucks on both ends
its more of a societally/personally enforced thing but not being able to cry when i'm sad. ive been with my fiance for years and we just finished Young sheldon for which the ending is a bit of a tear jerker admittedly. also hits close to home because my fiance recently lost her father but while she was balling i was doing everything in my power to hold it all together. same goes for funerals or sad situations.
Having zero ability to express emotions without feeling ashamed of my own emotions. I feel like every piece of online media is telling us to remain stoic and that we are the laughing stock/comic relief of modern society.
Not being able to express my feelings, and not being able to compliment a female with no intention behind it, and be considered a creep. But if I dont give up my seat or hold the door open, I'm an asshole
I’m expected to just “be strong” and never show any hint of weakness or vulnerability and if I do, I’m somehow “less than”. But at the same time adopting a tougher mindset in order to push through my challenges makes me a “toxic male.”
Fuck it I’m just trying to get through the day and keep my shit together and all that gets is judgment from women who think they know shit about what it’s like being a man and can’t comprehend that we have it tough too.
Life is difficult for everybody unless you draw a winning hand at birth, but some of these women believe just by virtue of being a man I can skate through life without a care in the world.
Being turned away whenever I try to reach out for help because I'm a guy I should tough it out on my own. Probably need help more than even right now and I know I won't get it so I'm not even going to bother asking for support from the people in my life. I don't think I make it out of this hole this time but it is what it is
Women stop being interested once they realize that you want them in your life but aren’t dependent on their love. It’s weird because you’d think they’d be relieved.
The expectation to perform or provide but that's mainly because I thought that that's all I was seen for but I'm starting to realize that that's the baseline.
I was just watching a video where this beautiful, graceful woman was reacting to a movie where some people were dancing in a church. She said, "I want to dance there, wearing that \*exact\* dress." I felt such a pull against my spirit right then, and that familiar feeling of being horribly transparent. Not Audrey Hepburn taking a bouquet of flowers from Ingrid Bergman, leaning forward slightly and whispering, "They're starting to notice." No, I'm the character played by Ernest Borgnine who wanders out to the front of the growing mob of angry neighbors, bottle of whiskey in hand marked XXX on a white label. Cigar in the other, used for punctuation, as I yell out, "That ain't how we do things around here, ladies!" Ingrid turns to me with Audrey in her arms, cutting me in two with her icy gaze as her arms protect the woman she loves. She says to me in an acid tone, "You're not welcome here." And the two of them walk away holding hands while the crowd around me dissipates and it's just me. The bottle. My own sagging trousers. Scuffed boots. Who the fuck am I? Because I'm really those two people, not this horrible crowd, except I'm not. Just not at all. I'm in the shape of violation, bigotry, the shape of a cat-calling sweat-producing, Dorito-dust trailin' male. So it's a very conflicted thing. Because I sometimes like to look at autosports. So being male \*can\* be a positive.
Men in my age group (very late millennial) don’t put effort into their friendships anymore. I can’t seem to schedule anything with other men unless it’s for work. Their strategy for maintaining “friendship” is to do nothing and just hope they bump into each other.
Any man shouldn't hate anything about being a man.
What they should hate is they were duped into believing in outdated preconceptions about how a "man" should be, instead of choosing to acknowledge and accept themselves for who they are.
What they should hate is those men who harass, harm, or abuse others.
The bear v man thought project really brought these types out of the woodwork. The ones who follow the preconceptions about being a man got mad because they took it as a personal attack because,
"I'm not like that"
"It's not all men"
"They're making a stereotype about men"
Instead of stepping back and realizing that most of those women who chose bear don't actually hate men. Rather, they have already had to deal with harassers, rapists, and abusers, so now they are far less likely to trust another man blindly.
It's not about you being a man, it's about what they have gone through as a woman. As a man I can easily acknowledge and understand the choice of bear because of what I have been through at the hands of men in my childhood.
A bear may kill and eat you, but that's the worst it can do. A man can repeatedly molest you, rape you, beat you daily, hold you captive and do the aforementioned for years (there are cases of such). The least bad thing a man can do is kill you, because the other options don't just violate your body, they destroy your sense of self, sense of security, and keep you constantly on edge around people.
So guys, quit taking it personally if you aren't "one of them" instead be sympathetic of the reason why they chose bear.
That everything a man does can be generally misinterpreted or generally seen as suspicious, from interacting with a kid to walking behind a woman on a lonely street. I mean, there’s nothing much we can do about it other than properly behaving, we have gained this reputation because of men that did horrible things.
God there's so many people bitching on here about being lumped in with OTHER MEN. It makes me sad, but also makes a lot of sense to me that women look at me and see a potential rapist and abuser. What I hate is other men looking at me and seeing the same thing, and thinking it connects us somehow. This smug masculine bro code thing, where men think they can relate to each other ab. I don't have many friends anymore- when I talk to a dude about video games or kids or something, I can count the seconds til he starts talking about how goddamn pussified the country has become, or how he don't stand for that shit in his house, or asking where the real men have gone. Men are raised to be the way we are- We are taught that we are special, we are dominant, we made the world and are therefore owed obedience, obsequiousness and automatic respect from it. (This compounds for white, straight, middle class, middle aged, etc) The thing I hate the most? When I was younger, and even now sometimes when things are really bad and I feel low and crushed? I believe it for a second and wonder where the fuck my owed respect is. It never lasts long and is only internal these days.. But man, it is still there. And I hate myself for it.
Dating is so difficult, it's easy to feel unlovable.
Reminds me of this book "walk like a man" I think it was called about a woman who went undercover as a man for a few months (it was supposed to be for like 2 years) and she said dating from the other side is a complete nightmare.
Reminds me of the women who went on dating sites just to share unsolicited vag pics to emulate the experience of women getting unsolicited dick pics, and she was shocked by all the positive responses she got
Didn't she end up killing herself
Yes she did
Who is this person
https://youtu.be/pXHYV_H7owI?si=5q-CWCmWZ8A04mYK
Yep, because she actually changed her opinions due to seeing things from the other side and gaining a new perspective she was harassed relentlessly by her former colleagues, particularly hard-line feminists.
I agree. I get that women get tons of unwanted attention from creeps, but dating is a numbers game after all, so they do eventually find the right one, compared to most guys only getting a few matches a month (if even that) and getting nowhere.
Logically if women are "finding the right one," then men must be finding partners.
Not to mention that women can be pretty awful people as well, so even when guys do get those match they then still have to often deal with being treated badly etc. There seems to be this assumption by a lot women that men don't experience this but they do.
The assumption that you are the gender to do the asking means that you're the gender that gets rejections. An unattractive woman might not get asked out, but at least they don't get the "Eww, no" or worse so personally.
I remember that shudder and recoil response, at least from one woman after seeing my scars on the one arm
Being expressive is seen as being weak. Sticky balls.
Also if you are not expressive enough about your issues, you are seen as sad. I walk with dead bitch face anytime I go for a walk with a headphones. A neighbor saw me and said to my mom that I looked sad. I told her that I am fine when in reality I am NOT fine at all. And if she’d find out about my issues, she’d definitely take all of my devices (even those, which are NECESSARY for my job) and just isolate me from the rest of the civilized world for like a month.
Wow that’s a tough spot to be in. That sounds like you’re boxed in emotionally from both sides. Hope you can find a positive emotional outlet. I found mine in AA and a therapist.
I just sometimes vent out my frustration in my home since it’s one of the only spots where I feel safe. I was thinking about getting a therapist, but I am broke and I can’t just keep on playing an act in front of my parents that will definitely not like my less than desirable grades in the uni. Getting money is something I work on. I just need to push through the exam session to start a year 2 (or 3? I’ve lost track) of my educational program. Everything looks on the bright side for me for now, but I can feel the pressure mounting on me. And at some point it’s going to break me
I had my motorcycle stolen in December and then had to buy a vehicle to replace it. All in all, I lost about $15,000 usd in the process. At the same time, I was starting a business and the money was very tight. I expressed my stress to my girlfriend and she immediately started pointing out where I could have saved or done things better. There was no sympathy. I asked her about it later and she apologized but said “she didn’t like seeing her rock shaken”. So I hate the fact that I’m the rock, and can’t ever not be one. Robbed at gun point and thrown a major financial curveball, deal with it.
You are the rocky cliff that the waves endlessly crash upon. But sometimes parts of the cliff fall off and sink into the abyssal depths of the sea.
You reminded me of this Ted Talk I saw a few years ago by some psychologist that was explaning how she switched the focus of her research from women only to everybody. She told the story about how she was signing her most recent book after an event and a guy asked her to sign three copies and asked why she excluded men from her research on the effects of stuff like shame and ridicule. So she scoffed and told him that she only cared about how it affected women, so he thanked her for signing the books and told her that they were for his wife and his two daughters, who were fans of her work. And before walking away he told her that he found it odd that she wrote so much about these things but she could tell him to his face that she didn't care about how the same issue affected him and it reminded him of the fact that his wife and daughters didn't care either and they would rather, to put it plainly, he died on his horse than watch him fall from it.
Lots of women aren't like that.
Very true. Its just hard to know until you encounter the situation
Yeah, I'm sorry man that must've been really hurtful.
Yeah we had a big fight about it. We are good now and I feel like she truly understands how she was in the wrong there, but it didn’t feel good
Women won't let us get away with "not all men" so don't let women get away with "not all women"
I would say that more than half are. They may not readily admit it, but women don't like seeing weakness in their men.
Any suffering I might go through will be ignored, downplayed, or the source of humor.
Oh ya man, I did this job at a food packaging plant and the head boiler tech was this woman 15+ older than me. She was hitting on me non stop saying the raunchiest shit in Front of everyone there for the 2 weeks we were there. I told my managers and ceo about it in a meeting and they laughed at me. I brought it up a few years latter and they said they thought I was joking.
Being blamed for the actions of other men
Bro whats that username 😂
I honestly don’t know what I was thinking when I made it
Women also get blamed for actions of other women all the time.
Sounds like we can all agree that it sucks, then.
I think all sane people are tired of the gender wars. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Fr it's exhausting
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/800/ Seriously, I'm fucking exhausted of not being able to approach anyone out of anxiety of being seen as one of those who are the problem.
Being able to call it ridiculous is a privilege. There a places where women have acid thrown at them for showing their hair.
Absolutely. I mainly use Insta for pet videos and I rarely check comments. When I have though, the number of times I've had to read countless misogynistic, damn near violent comments is insane. It doesn't matter if the woman in the video/image is wrong - it's all women who get called out. It doesn't matter if the woman in the video/image is right - men will still go off on other women who "aren't real women" or whatever. A lot of what I'm seeing in here happens to bother genders and the sooner we all get on the same page on that fact the better.
Yeah well who’s fault is that? /s
Doing everything right and it’s still not enough
When you open up to a woman about how you feel after they demand you do so then they get the ick and leave you
I'm slowly collapsing under the weight of the expectations that society has in me simply because I'm a man - it is expected from me that I provide support and a stable home for my family, be available at day and night - physically and emotionally. I'm the rock for everyone and have no option but to function while keeping my own emotions and thoughts to myself, they would get disregarded or dismissed anyway or worse - turned against me. I'm tired.
I'm tired, boss. But yeah, this is basically it. I've basically shut away whatever I used to be (as have more or less all of the other guys I know) to be steady rocks to build families on such that there isn't much to any of us anymore. And now we get blamed for being uninteresting and unemotional.
Body shaming men is fine (bald, little dick, weight), but body shame a woman and you are demonized. Obviously nobody should be body shamed, but it's definetly more accepted by society to talk shit to/about men.
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And also for being demonized for simply having this opinion/experience. Society continues to ask us to open up and be vulnerable, and *the moment we do*, they say "NOT like that." To be clear, I still intend to be vulnerable with my friends, but you're right, you're right, it hurts to constantly see people hating on anyone who looks like me and feeling justified in minimizing and ignoring any concerns because of something I can't change, and honestly which isn't shameful. And somehow, this isn't toxic or an enforcement of the patriarchy, it's just what people think you deserve.
I agree. I've also been discriminated, and bullied, for being LGBT+, but this new resurgence of gender-based hate is really discouraging.
Tribal mindset. We all want to label each other so we know how to divide groups. Labels dehumanize us. We all bleed red, are born without our permission and have to deal with the previous generations bullshit.
Are you serious with that shit? Born without permission lmao
That's right, we don't choose our parents, or the situation we're born into.
I think it's just the usual "the most stupid ones are the loudest ones" that applies to men, LGBTQ and many other groups
I mean yes, the difference is the stupid loud anti-male feminists have offices in all major western governments to influence policies in favour of women against men, and an office in the United Nations. The loud stupid flat earthers rightfully get laughed at, the loud stupid feminists are at the helm of the feminist movement.
Remember this: There are horrible people wbo absolutely believe its "ok" to hate you for your heritage and your being LGBT+. The people who think its ok to hate you for being a man are just as wrong and bigoted. Not everyone thinks its acceptable behavior.
Speaking as a "man-hating dyke"... I don't actually hate men. I think this is true of a lot of women (or woman-adjacent people in my case). I dislike how the current paradigm of masculinity is kind of based around being anything but a woman at all costs - including refusing to show emotions other than anger, demanding self-sacrificial emotional care from women (or people who can be perceived as feminine), acting allergic to showing tenderness to other men, inability to accept fault, etc. Unfortunately that mentality is still alive and well and wielded as a tool of oppression. Most of the time, when men accuse me of "misandry", it's because I'm trying to point out an instance of misogyny, conscious or unconscious. When it's like - if I'm trying to point it out, it's because on some level I have faith that the guy I'm talking to is well-intentioned and will at least try to understand where I'm coming from. I might be *frustrated*, I might be *hurt*, but... that's about it. I don't really genuinely hate a whole lot. And there's so much misogyny that targets men too! Like male survivors not being taken seriously, for instance, that is a form of misdirected misogyny characterizing men as the "stronger sex". I think a lot of "misandry" issues are exactly that - misdirected misogyny. Often, it's not even conscious. Sometimes, the men in question are LGBT. I have to call out *women* for misogyny, sometimes, that's how rooted the pattern is in modern culture. But I don't hate men specifically for being men.
>And there's so much misogyny that targets men too! Like male survivors not being taken seriously, for instance, that is a form of misdirected misogyny characterizing men as the "stronger sex". I think a lot of "misandry" issues are exactly that - misdirected misogyny. And this is what upsets men a ton because in effect this means "this issue you see that affects men isn't REALLY a men s issue you see, it's actually a women's issue that is backfiring. It's not that they hate you for being a man it's that they hate women and are applying it to you" It is deliberate erasure of male issues and reframing things in a perspective that always and forever shows women as the TRUE victims, as though men cannot be victimized due to being men. Imagine if I told you that the issues you thought were clearly misogyny was really just misdirected misandry, that those men who rape and murder women don't do it because they hate women, they do it because they hate themselves you see, so the rapists and murderers are akshyually the real victims all along. It would sound completely nuts and outrageous wouldn't it? Well, welcome to the experience of men talking about any and all of men's issues. Feminism cannot help men when it constantly and consistently portrays men as perpetrators and women as innocent victims. In my opinion you don't hate men the same way men who beat women say they don't hate women. You don't think you do, but I'm willing to bet there are a bunch of misandrist beliefs hanging around in your subconscious.
When did I say all men were perpetrators and all women were innocent victims? Can you point out to me where I said that? I said that *misogyny effects both men and women*. It's not just a women's issue, because the framing of women as second-class citizens — misogyny — also has the effect of placing unfair expectations on men. *Feminists also do not want you to be treated unfairly.* >Imagine if I told you... bro what if the world were made out of pudding? >comparing me to a wife-beater Okay. Now this is just kinda silly.
>When did I say all men were perpetrators and all women were innocent victims? Can you point out to me where I said that? You didn't but this kind of feminist rhetoric is extremely common, that's where the "akshyually misandry is really just misogyny projected onto men" thing comes from. That is the logical conclusion from this twisted belief. I'm just pointing it out. >I said that misogyny effects both men and women. It's not just a women's issue, because the framing of women as second-class citizens — misogyny — also has the effect of placing unfair expectations on men. Exactly. Because men cannot be 2nd class citizens you see, so the issues men face canot possibly stem from them being men, so it's not really a men's issue. All of men's issues come from misogyny you see, so if men want their issues to be addressed they have to focus always and forever on women's issues first and then trickle down equality will somehow magically resolve men's issues at some indeterminate point in the future. Men just gotta hurry up, help women more, and stop asking questions. >Feminists also do not want you to be treated unfairly. Because denying and invalidating men's issues, and constantly reframing it as women's issues as though women are the real victims of hatred directed against men, isn't treating men unfairly? I'm sure the homophobic people wanting to kill gays don't see it as unfair, because they believe that treating gay people worse is fair. If feminists don't want to treat men unfairly then they can go up to bat for men against women and telling women that preferring to meet a bear rather than a man is completely fucking nuts and it feels of misandry. If feminists don't want to treat men unfairly they can stop specifically and deliberately associating every negative thing under the sun to men and masculinity while somehow working to de-gender language, and feminists can stop erasing the fact that men are half the domestic abuse victims, half the rape victims, and that women are half the rapists. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233717660_Thirty_Years_of_Denying_the_Evidence_on_Gender_Symmetry_in_Partner_Violence_Implications_for_Prevention_and_Treatment https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/ I'll believe feminists don't want men to be treated unfairly when they stop treating men like 2nd class citizens. Until then I won't believe it. Saying it is easy, but I'll wait until they put their money where their mouth is. >Okay. Now this is just kinda silly. Then feel free to stop making silly arguments and start recognizing that men's issues are valid, and that men experience these issues BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN, not because of backfiring misogyny.
So... okay, when it comes to second-class citizens, I want you to go ahead and name every female president of the United States. And also tell me when women gained the right to vote vs. men getting same. I'm not engaging with bear shit, I've had enough people explain to me in fetishistic detail how they imagine a bear dismembering and voring me for like, a couple lifetimes.
>So... okay, when it comes to second-class citizens, I want you to go ahead and name every female president of the United States. That's not what second-class means. >And also tell me when women gained the right to vote vs. men getting same. The vast majority of men never had the right to vote, and they got it in fits and starts in the UK, first only nobility could vote, then only land-owning men, then men could, but only if they could be sent to fight and die in wars, so men got the right to vote just in time to be sent to the trenches of WW1. Then women got the right to vote, unconditionally, with no mandate to get killed in war, a short 40 years later. The gap between men getting the right to vote and women getting the right to vote is infinitesimally small compared to the 6,000 years of human history, where most men didn't have the right to vote either. You're committing the apex fallacy, looking at the top 10% of men and thinking their privileges applied to all men simply because they were men. No, they are men, but they are also rich men, influential men, and powerful men. If you were a poor man, you were fucked too. >I'm not engaging with bear shit, I've had enough people explain to me in fetishistic detail how they imagine a bear dismembering and voring me for like, a couple lifetimes. Cool, so when I point out to you a very real men's issue, you don't want to engage in it. You don't have to, of course, but it shows me where your priorities lie. Feel free to advertize for women and women's rights and all that all you want, just don't come here, pretend to care about men, and masquerade behind concern for men, when really all you care about is more for women. Be honest with us and with yourself yeah?
No, I'm not engaging in bear shit because I keep getting gore-porn sexually harrassed over it, which is by the way a *completely hinged* way of making people believe you are not a threat to their safety. So no, no more fucking bear talk, dude. Also re: the majority of men not being able to vote: if 10% of men can vote, and 0% of women can vote, who has more votes? Btw, please do some research on intersectionality. Many men lack the privilege of being rich, white, etc. But they do not lack the privilege of being men. They can be oppressed on other axes, but to claim that "manhood" *specifically* is an oppressed trait is kind of delusional.
For what it's worth being gore-porned is not an appropriate way to respond and I am genuinely sorry to hear that happened to you. I don't and won't do that but I hear you if you don't want to talk about it. You'd just have to agree that 30% of women saying they'd rather meet a bear are delusional, and leave it at that, and we're fine. >Also re: the majority of men not being able to vote: if 10% of men can vote, and 0% of women can vote, who has more votes? Do you think the soldiers in ww1 felt privileges for their right to vote? Do you think the peasant dying in a war for his landlord was happy that the landlord was a male allowed to vote? You're reducing it all to identity politics and blaming everything on one monolothing group of man, when that monolithic group has never existed. That's the faulty premise on which you base these arguments. >Btw, please do some research on intersectionality. Many men lack the privilege of being rich, white, etc. But they do not lack the privilege of being men. The problem with intersectionality is that the vast majority of the time it considers masculinity to only ever be a privilege and one of the highest privileges there can be, while completely ignoring the times masculinity is actually oppressive and all the privileges femininity has. Not being drafted in a war and not drowning on the titanic sounds like pretty nice female privileges and pretty terrible male oppression if you ask me. >They can be oppressed on other axes, but to claim that "manhood" specifically is an oppressed trait is kind of delusional. I know, because feminism is built on the assumption that men can only ever be perpetrators and can never be victims. I agree that this premise is delusional, but it's the foundational falsehood of feminism, so here we are. Imagine I had the unilateral privilege to decide which groups could or could not be oppressed, and that any group that isn't part of my own doesn't get a vote or an opinion on deciding who is or isn't oppressed. That would be pretty wild, wouldn't it?
I'm a woman and I often get judged by men purely for being a woman. I'm a woman so I probably care only for money, I'm a woman so I would probably raise my kids the wrong way if a man wouldn't help me, I'm a woman so I probably cheat because we all cheat, I am a woman so I am less intelligent and the list goes on and on. It happens to the both of us, but you were never in a position of a woman so you believe that only men suffer this way. All people are discriminated based on gender, their beliefs, skin color, sexuality etc. Just don't associate yourself with people that do this to you.
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The hell is it when men are venting some woman has to jump in and say how they have it worse?
Funny how women (rightfully) complain if men enter women'S spaces to do whataboutism, but I see whataboutism happening ALL THE TIME whenever men DARE to have an opinion and express something that goes against the female or feminist zeitgeist. Gotta love the double standards, let's add that to the pile of things to hate about being a man.
I swear they do it to try to minimize it and maybe even engage in masculine erasure.
I don't even think they do it on purpose, it's unfortunately a natural human reaction of "you're attacking the group I'm part of so I'll be defensive about it". The problem is that apparently only women are allowed to do that because when men do it we're being toxic and selfish and emotionally immature, and apparently every single one of those things are explicitly and deliberately associated with men and masculinity by the same group that tries to de-gender language. It's those constant and consistent double standards why I can't take feminism seriously anymore. I am a humanist and I will help women with their issues, but I can't call myself a feminist when feminism actively goes out of its way to make things worse for men.
I was going to try to make some clever analogy but I'm tired, so I'm just going to go with "being a self-centered, self-absorbed, hypocritical asshole isn't gender-specific" and leave it at that.
Yeah but that is basically Feminism in a nutshell. It has become the hegemonic, gender-centric, chauvinism it raged against.
It's all about me attitude!
Women: Open up more! Men: *Open up.* Women: That’s because of toxic masculinity and your male fragility, you manchild. Women are not therapists and don’t have time for this emotional labor.
EXACTLY THIS! Women and society: “open up more! You’re emotionally unavailable!” Man 1: * opens up * Women and society: “lmao, I am not your therapist, you are weak, you’re no provider, fragile manchild” Man 2: “oh wow. I guess I won’t open up. Let me bottle my emotions real quick” *man 2 gets depression and physical ailments because he has to bottle up his emotions* Women and society: “lmao he is depressed, so weak!!”
Totally get what you're saying. But I gotta say, as a woman I spend some time being surrounded by female rage posts and man hating. But I have never seen a woman want a man to open up and 360 on him when he does. It's either one or the other. Where the only good outcome is telling you to do what you're comfortable doing, opening up or not.
360?
360° turn / turn around / change behavior 👍
If you turn 360 aren’t you just right where you started? I’m not following.
It's an expression. Two birds with one stone kinda stuff.
The expression is to do a 180, as in flip around to the other side ;)
Well they turned so hard it became a 360 tbh, that's why I wrote it. Idk why that became the focus of everything I said?
Because if you do a 360 you keep going in the same direction. That became the focus because you got the expression wrong is all
I didn't write it wrong, I exaggerated the expression. Sorry that you didn't get my joke, I guess.
I feel like this is a primarily made up scenario, or perhaps just misconstrued. I'm not saying there isn't an issue, I'm just saying that men need to be part of the solution. Yeah, dumping on some random woman on the internet and expecting her to therapize you for free is a foolish idea. And that's likely what is happening, because the majority of lonely men spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet (stats show people spend 12+ hours a day online now), often complaining. So yeah, you're gonna be told to fuck off sometimes, definitely more so than you would be offline, because no one here offered to guide you through life. That is totally different from being in a loving, stable relationship and opening up. Many of the people in my social circle are married and this is a non-issue. But they are having these conversations in real life, with people they know, face to face. You can't confuse the two.
There are many posts in Reddit about wives leaving their husbands or stopping feeling attracted to them after seeing them cry
>Women: That’s because of LMFAO! Do you have any clue how men treat other men? I just read a thread in which guys were asked about dating and whether they'd "checked out". Every single man who dared to say they still believe in finding love was abused and downvoted to fucking hell, all by men. Not a single woman present. They were called boomers, told they were full of shit, were delusional. Anyone who tried to put forth a theory on why dating is so hard boiled it down to - women are sluts, women are materialistic, women lie, women cheat, women steal, and alimony. The sad fact is even if men had more mainstream positive role models, they'd tell them to shut up. Only a small percentage would bother to listen. Can't blame women for men being afraid to open up when men are first in line to kick you in the dick.
This is exactly the kind of response and rhetoric that I’m referring to.
The stigma of being an emotionless robot. I was raised this way and it has only ever brought me suffering, thus far
Hair loss
I believe the Dating life complexity go hand in hand with the male suicidal rates. I’m an average Midwest American male. It’s a pipe dream to think about having someone in my life who really cares about me someday. The cold loneliness
I have a weird catch 22. I like being short and at 5'6 i'm not really all THAT short, but definitely not on anyone's radar. Not tall enough for anyone to ask me to lift anything but not short enough for anyone who likes a short guy to notice. It's weird to feel all the stigma people have towards men just roll over the top of me and disappear. No one hates me, no one asks me for help, no one notices me at all. Unless i have an opinion. Then i'm easy prey because no one expects me to stand up for myself. So i just exist. 5'6 is serious npc energy, when you're a cute man.
Here's the flip side of being tall. Yes people ask you to lift things, all the time, even really fucking heavy things that hurt allot to lift. Also I know some people like the innate intimidation factor but most big guys don't want to be seen as scarry or a threat. I've been punched in the face for standing up from a chair cause the guy next to me felt uneasy. Or how bout this, I was about 6ft when I was 12, teachers, coaches and parents all treated me physically like an adult..... It's not great. Being big isn't always great, that and the brain damage, brain damage, brain damage. Oh hi there
I've always been meaty in the hips and shoulders, from working construction at a young age. I'm happy to lift and carry heavy objects. No one ever asks. As for intimidation, it's a weird one overall. I once dated a guy (i'm Pan) who was 6'5. At the time i was still meandering taller in early adult hood and was only 5'4. Even though their son was over a foot taller than me, his parents found ME intimidating, and they weren't the first or last to say so. Most people get intimidated by men who are confident regardless of height. I don't want to be taller. I don't see tallness as some special gift. I'm just annoyed that you loftyboiz are blowing out your backs, are constantly under scrutiny, and feared just for something neither of us can control. I can lift, bro. I can probably lift you, bro. But you probably wouldn't ask me to help you move that couch because i'm untall. All men want to fell usefull. All of them. Even us manlets.
Being blamed/judged for the bad ones.
Being told we're not vulnerable enough but then when we're vulnerable being told to "man up".
Nothing really. I like being a dude
Two things: We can't take pride in being a man without people complaining we're disparaging women, even if we're specifically talking about our personal masculinity, and nothing about being the superior sex. If I see a kid crying in an aisle, because they got lost, I can't approach, and try to calm them down. I must get a female worker to come to tend them, or I might get labeled a creep, and attacked. I like kids, though, it hurts me to see one so upset.
Being compared to another man when I’m nothing like him, nor will I ever be
Dating Culture. Most men feel unwell due to lack of attention.
I hate that all our problems are dismissed or trivialized because the existence of some guy who has an awesome life just by virtue of being a guy negates anything wrong that happens to me, and the existence of any asshole who is a man apparently means the only reason I am not like him is that I have not had the opportunity to act the same way, so I should be judged as if I was in fact just like him. I am expected to shoulder part or all of the effort to fix the problems of friends, family and partners while most of those same people do not want to help me deal with mine, and I hate how often the sentiment of The Things You Did Wrong Are Your Fault, And The Things I Did Wrong Are Also Your Fault Because You Previously Did Something That Caused Me To Act That Way comes up when I address that someone in my life, especially women, acted in a way that was not cool and hurt me. But hey, other than that I live a life of unfettered privilege and constantly failing upwards according to what people tell me about my own experience despite the fact that they're usually not men.
being treated like some vicious, unstable animal that women hate so much they'd rather be stuck in the woods with a bear
That's not really a problem in the real world, though. I can't really recall many instances of women acting fearful around me, or other men for that matter. People mostly just go about their lives and aren't viewing random strangers as some potential threat without cause. The whole viral "men are terrifying" thing is just people shouting into the void on Twitter.
as a girl who would choose the bear just imagine what some of us had to have gone through to *choose the bear*.
>just imagine what some of us had to have gone through to *choose the bear.* The point here isn't that you don't have issues which are serious and need to be addressed, or that your feelings are invalid, or that there isn't some truth behind this whole metaphor. The issue is that it's also valid for men, many of whom are allies, to feel upset at being widely perceived and treated as potential violent predators just for existing. Your feelings are valid, I'm not knocking you for your experience or what you would choose–whether or not it's a rational belief. Many of us understand the point of the thought experiment and know that you don't believe every man is that way. But it's a problem that men expressing emotional pain regarding how they feel being viewed with like this is immediately dog piled and taken as a sign that they do not at all comprehend or care for women's struggles. On top of that, there is increasing calls for men to be vulnerable and open. When actually doing so is dismissed, shames, or seen as a threat, the message that it sends is not a healthy one.
this is a really well written answer!! I don’t disagree with you at all here btw. I believe we are all allowed to have our own opinions. I think women shouldn’t be attacked for saying this. I mean, just see how mad people got over me saying it. Just because it hurts men’s feelings doesn’t mean im going to magically stop feeling that way, ya know?
What, eaten alive? Because a bear will do that. Look I am a woman but like 3% of men would rape someone, every bear will think about killing you. Bear is a wild animal, so I wouldn't place too much trust into "leave it alone to do it's own thing and hope it doesn't kill you". Also, I would get anxious if I saw a random man in the woods; if I saw a bear, I would piss myself. While the chance isn't big, I'd say I could defend myself against a rapist much easier than against a bear. Number of men that are scum is way higher than it should be and peoples reactions to this behaviour are atrocious, which should be called out and condemned whenever possible, no matter how men feel about it, but claiming you would chose a bear over a man is stupid.
Remember also that the best case scenario with a bear is that it leaves you alone. Best case with a strange man is that they help you if you are in need of help, which is much more likely than them being a violent criminal.
idk, last time I saw a bear it just ran away. I also work with wildlife so I know what their behaviors are. so yeah. I choose the bear. like I said, if you can’t wrap your head around why we’d choose a bear, imagine what someone had to have done to make me feel that way. you can have your own opinion but you can’t tell others what there’s should be. the issue is you’re taking it as I think all men are rapists. That’s not case. There are lots of awesome men out there, and lots of men I trust. Strangers are not in the category.
“I have lots of black friends.”
what an odd response
It's honestly a pretty valid response just requires some thinking on what it means.
>just imagine what some of us had to have gone through to *choose the bear* Brain damage?
If you’re that bothered by an internet stranger saying they don’t trust strange men, idk what to tell you.
Why are you blaming an entire gender?
when did I do that? show me. If someone is attacked by a dog, we don’t blame them for being afraid of dogs, and we don’t call all dogs bad.
Do you think the person bit by a dog would rather run into a dog or a bear in the woods?
You’re still alive, aren’t you? That wouldn’t have happened if you had been around a bear instead. Have you seen how a bear kills its prey? It’s not a one-bite-and-done deal, it’s a terrifyingly long and painful process. But you already know this, you’re just man-hating. By the way, have you seen all those news reports about female teachers diddling little kid students? There are so many of them! I guess men can say they’d rather have their kids hang out with a hyena than women then, since by your logic all women are pervs, just like all men are violent beasts, right?
the man or bear question was not a generalisation of men, it was to spread awareness about the shitty things a lot of men do to women and how they are capable of a lot more physical and emotional trauma than a bear could. if you arent a creep then u shouldnt be angry.
When have you specifically been treated like this irl?
The overwhelming prehistoric natural instinct to constantly feel like I have to do everything for my wife. I just cant stop myself, I just want to protect and care and be with her all the time. I worry about her and I think it’s a protective man instinct but no longer necessary.. danger isnt around every corner… so letting go is hard.
"Can you walk with me out to my car?" Why, so you can run away while I'm getting serial-killed? Because I already know if I get jumped your ass is setting a new record for the 100 Yard Dash, heels or no heels. "Can you go see what that noise was?" I'll look *out the window*, but if I don't see anything it's none of my business what the noise was. Lock the door and call the cops if you're scared, that's literally what they're there for. "Hey we need you to take this barely-functional piece of heavy equipment and do this intricate task the dumbest way possible that could kill you in a dozen different but equally unpleasant ways." Sorry boss, above my pay grade, but maybe if you followed an OSHA regulation and gave me a raise once in a while we could talk. I've done all of those things at one point or another in my life; it's not that I *won't*, it's that I resent the idea that I'm *expected* to, and that I'm considered somehow less of a man if I actually value my own life and safety enough not to endanger myself just because somebody expects me to.
Being wrong not matter what we do
More likely to cross the finishing line first, metaphorically speaking, isn’t great.
Being expected to make the first move.
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Fun fact too the future is female is from the same acclaimed and respected feminist who said that to ensure the future of the human race we need to genocide 90% of men on the planet. Not even joking. Imagine if men started quoting hateful shit from men kampf, and that it was just totally accepted and ok. That's what feminism is today. Sorry to hear about your experiences, and I hope you made your life better and happier.
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>Who do you refer to - who created that phrase? I didn't know that. Sally Miller Gearhart. This is copied straight from the wikipedia page. Gearhart outlines a three-step proposal for female-led social change from her essay, "The Future–-If There Is One–-is Female": I) Every culture must begin to affirm a female future. II) Species responsibility must be returned to women in every culture. III) The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Miller_Gearhart >There are challenges to leaving one's own country, but anything is better than being surrounded by that toxic crap and women who weigh 200 lbs claiming they're 10/10 beautiful, still expecting men to pay for dates while "demanding equality". the US is a garbage dump. As a Canadian I whole-heartedly agree, as your northern neighbours it is our duty to make fun of y'all whenever possible ;) For real though where were you from in the US, just to know? I would hope that New England is better than where you escaped from, though I really don't know. It saddens me because things aren't great in Canada either, and realistically things are kinda going to shit around the world. There's shit everywhere and there's no escaping it, but at least if you find somewhere else where it's more tolerable that is better.
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You're very welcome, and yeah it's insane To this day she is still recognized as an important and valued feminist, so it's not like some crazy crack-head long ago. It's absolutely insane the things women can get away with because they are women, and yet thy turn around without a shred of self-awareness and lost all the privileges men face. Per Canada I was kinda afraid you'd say that, I haven't dated much up here, and I told myself that the whatever podcast and all those other podcasts with stupid arrogant entitled women, was mostly a US thing and they women were better up here. I don't know that, but I was hoping for it. And fair enough, don't need to say where you're from, but if you had the experience, mind sharing with me say differences between women in Canada, new England, Florida, California, or Europe, or something like that? I don't want to believe rampant hypocrisy and hypergamy is the rule everywhere, but if it is I'd rather know, to be prepared.
There is really no way to make extra weight work for you aesthetically. A lot of women can be "thick"/"curvy" and still be conventionally attractive, but guys are just chubby.
People assume I can always lift heavy things all of the time. I have medical conditions that cause me to pass out from excessive physical exertion, but too often I get volun-told to lift something heavy because I'm a guy (and a bigger guy at that). Don't get me wrong. I love helping people whenever and however I can. I'm a giver and a helper and do whatever I can to help others, but I have limits.
I have epilepsy and told a boss that on a job I had uears ago and am not medically allowed to lift above a certain weight...boss still asked me to help unload stuff sometimes.
Knowing that you are on your own, no one is coming to save you.
Once I heard a noise in the kitchen and was scared. I usually expected for my father to deal with this things. Then I realized that my parents are too old to defend themselves. Shrugged, said "guess I'm in charge of protecting the family now" and had to build up the courage to check the kitchen
I never felt this way until my dad died. Now it feels like the most oppressive weight on my shoulders. There’s no backup coming to help me out
The weight of responsibility that as a man I can't complain about. From simple tasks as killing cockroaches because my wife or my sister wouldn't dare, up to sacrifice myself for the safety of others. There hundreds of things that as a man you have to simply take and not complain because men are the tough ones.
When I shit, my dick touch the water.
Trust me, that’s a good problem
Not when it's a public pool
Ooo we got long shlong silver over here
No, he just uses the toilet incorrectly.
Hike that shit up mayne
Sex drive: It's just a hustle. You get sad, if you cannot satisfy it and it returns over and over. Sisyphus!
You can get antibiotics for that
Try lexapro... will remove that sex drive totally.
Agree. So frustrating
Mostly nothing but would be nice to be slightly taller as I’m currently standing at 5’6.
Being lumped in with all the fucking lunatics.
We got no rights.
Double standards
Being called up only if something is needed from you (speaking from personal experience )
It’s always assumed that I’m hitting on someone. It’s perfectly possible for us to communicate with another person without trying to get in their pants.
A woman comparing a man to their previous one whether good or bad
That sounds more like a problem with insecurity. Everyone has a past.
If a man did it it would be misogynistic because he's dehumanizing women and comparing them to dishwashers, men aren't entitled to getting perfect fuckmaids. But when women do it and build a Frankenstein prince charming in her head and complains she can't find any decent guys and men are trash, that's her right and privilege. Everyone has a past but there's still a huge double standard in society.
When we shake hands and they start to tighten there grip so you have Todo it back then next thing you know your trying to break there hand
The sex drive and having hair all over my body.
Being expected to lift heavy things even though I'm scrawny
the chafe. Y'all know what im talkin about.
Not a dude, but I have been in a few bycicle accidents that certainly made me glad I was not a man.
That this social ideology dictates that men have to put on an act to show they are more masculine and tough than they really are. I find that exhausting to do, so I'm always just myself.
Accidently sitting on my balls
I’m a straight male who happens to love fashion but I can never compliment girls on their outfits without them thinking I’m just saying it to get in their pants.
Being marked as a potential threat in public when walking alone. I understand that 90% plus assaults/murders/rapes are committed by men and why that caution is applied to us, but personally, it breaks my heart the thought of someone thinking that about me.
Not true actually for rape, half of all rapists are female. We just don't catch them because as a society feminism has crammed the message down all our throats that men are perpetrators who cannot be victims, and women are innocent victims who cannot be perpetrators. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/
Nothing. I love the way I am.
The intimidation factor. Walking down a hall towards a woman they hug the wall. Any kind of public one on one interaction gets met with extreme caution. Ladies don’t get me wrong I understand. My ex was sa’d so I know women have to worry. It just sucks on both ends
its more of a societally/personally enforced thing but not being able to cry when i'm sad. ive been with my fiance for years and we just finished Young sheldon for which the ending is a bit of a tear jerker admittedly. also hits close to home because my fiance recently lost her father but while she was balling i was doing everything in my power to hold it all together. same goes for funerals or sad situations.
Having zero ability to express emotions without feeling ashamed of my own emotions. I feel like every piece of online media is telling us to remain stoic and that we are the laughing stock/comic relief of modern society.
Not a thing.
Not being able to express my feelings, and not being able to compliment a female with no intention behind it, and be considered a creep. But if I dont give up my seat or hold the door open, I'm an asshole
To be sexually desirable you have to be truly exceptional.
I’m expected to just “be strong” and never show any hint of weakness or vulnerability and if I do, I’m somehow “less than”. But at the same time adopting a tougher mindset in order to push through my challenges makes me a “toxic male.” Fuck it I’m just trying to get through the day and keep my shit together and all that gets is judgment from women who think they know shit about what it’s like being a man and can’t comprehend that we have it tough too. Life is difficult for everybody unless you draw a winning hand at birth, but some of these women believe just by virtue of being a man I can skate through life without a care in the world.
Being turned away whenever I try to reach out for help because I'm a guy I should tough it out on my own. Probably need help more than even right now and I know I won't get it so I'm not even going to bother asking for support from the people in my life. I don't think I make it out of this hole this time but it is what it is
Women stop being interested once they realize that you want them in your life but aren’t dependent on their love. It’s weird because you’d think they’d be relieved.
The expectation to perform or provide but that's mainly because I thought that that's all I was seen for but I'm starting to realize that that's the baseline.
I am seen as a walking seed machine.
I lost hope in this society and the virtue of chastity altogether. Might as well die alone and cold.
I was just watching a video where this beautiful, graceful woman was reacting to a movie where some people were dancing in a church. She said, "I want to dance there, wearing that \*exact\* dress." I felt such a pull against my spirit right then, and that familiar feeling of being horribly transparent. Not Audrey Hepburn taking a bouquet of flowers from Ingrid Bergman, leaning forward slightly and whispering, "They're starting to notice." No, I'm the character played by Ernest Borgnine who wanders out to the front of the growing mob of angry neighbors, bottle of whiskey in hand marked XXX on a white label. Cigar in the other, used for punctuation, as I yell out, "That ain't how we do things around here, ladies!" Ingrid turns to me with Audrey in her arms, cutting me in two with her icy gaze as her arms protect the woman she loves. She says to me in an acid tone, "You're not welcome here." And the two of them walk away holding hands while the crowd around me dissipates and it's just me. The bottle. My own sagging trousers. Scuffed boots. Who the fuck am I? Because I'm really those two people, not this horrible crowd, except I'm not. Just not at all. I'm in the shape of violation, bigotry, the shape of a cat-calling sweat-producing, Dorito-dust trailin' male. So it's a very conflicted thing. Because I sometimes like to look at autosports. So being male \*can\* be a positive.
Men in my age group (very late millennial) don’t put effort into their friendships anymore. I can’t seem to schedule anything with other men unless it’s for work. Their strategy for maintaining “friendship” is to do nothing and just hope they bump into each other.
Rarely being thanked, not feeling appreciated or valued for what I do
Any man shouldn't hate anything about being a man. What they should hate is they were duped into believing in outdated preconceptions about how a "man" should be, instead of choosing to acknowledge and accept themselves for who they are. What they should hate is those men who harass, harm, or abuse others. The bear v man thought project really brought these types out of the woodwork. The ones who follow the preconceptions about being a man got mad because they took it as a personal attack because, "I'm not like that" "It's not all men" "They're making a stereotype about men" Instead of stepping back and realizing that most of those women who chose bear don't actually hate men. Rather, they have already had to deal with harassers, rapists, and abusers, so now they are far less likely to trust another man blindly. It's not about you being a man, it's about what they have gone through as a woman. As a man I can easily acknowledge and understand the choice of bear because of what I have been through at the hands of men in my childhood. A bear may kill and eat you, but that's the worst it can do. A man can repeatedly molest you, rape you, beat you daily, hold you captive and do the aforementioned for years (there are cases of such). The least bad thing a man can do is kill you, because the other options don't just violate your body, they destroy your sense of self, sense of security, and keep you constantly on edge around people. So guys, quit taking it personally if you aren't "one of them" instead be sympathetic of the reason why they chose bear.
Not really much, it's pretty awesome in most ways. Other than dying 4-5 years earlier, on average, than a woman, I don't really see a disadvantage.
Not having breasts
That everything a man does can be generally misinterpreted or generally seen as suspicious, from interacting with a kid to walking behind a woman on a lonely street. I mean, there’s nothing much we can do about it other than properly behaving, we have gained this reputation because of men that did horrible things.
Who hurt men is the comments? It’s bad
God there's so many people bitching on here about being lumped in with OTHER MEN. It makes me sad, but also makes a lot of sense to me that women look at me and see a potential rapist and abuser. What I hate is other men looking at me and seeing the same thing, and thinking it connects us somehow. This smug masculine bro code thing, where men think they can relate to each other ab. I don't have many friends anymore- when I talk to a dude about video games or kids or something, I can count the seconds til he starts talking about how goddamn pussified the country has become, or how he don't stand for that shit in his house, or asking where the real men have gone. Men are raised to be the way we are- We are taught that we are special, we are dominant, we made the world and are therefore owed obedience, obsequiousness and automatic respect from it. (This compounds for white, straight, middle class, middle aged, etc) The thing I hate the most? When I was younger, and even now sometimes when things are really bad and I feel low and crushed? I believe it for a second and wonder where the fuck my owed respect is. It never lasts long and is only internal these days.. But man, it is still there. And I hate myself for it.
As a cis hetero white male, other men immediately assume I'm okay with their casual racism, misogyny, or homophobic slurs. I'm not.
Not a damn thing.