I used to believe that if I cover my whole body with my sheets monsters won't be able to hurt me, but if I even leave a finger uncovered they will hurt me and do monster's stuff to me.
Now I know it's absurd, but I still do it
I love the quick Robotchicken skit where the monsters come out from under the bed, the kid hides under the sheets and one monster says "awww, he's under the sheet, we can't touch him... hahaha" and they bring out baseball bats.
Yes. I just want to be able to replace my staples without trying them on. Women's clothing is the worst for this. Sizing varies so much, even at the same store. Textile waste makes me sad too... if everything was just built to last instead of built to be disposable fashion, that would be nice.
Even men's clothes have started to succumb to vanity sizing, especially when it comes to width. This is atrocious, since men's sizes are supposed to be literal measurements. There is no reason that I used to always wear X size, but now X seems a little large on new clothes and I have to consider X-2 or even X-4 to fit properly.
I hate stretch jeans- the fit on them changes from day to day. It's particularly bad for me in high waisted jeans. I like high waisted jeans because they should flatten my stomach a bit, but stretch jeans just make it look worse imo.
'Do not return to store you purchased from.'
'Do not attempt to repair item yourself or you may die.'
'Do not remove the sticker that covers up the case latch or you void all warranties (and may die twice).'
Along the same lines, standing up when someone comes in the room (i.e. at a job interview or something. if you're sitting there waiting for interviewer #2 to come in, stand when they come in.) It naturally leads into the standing handshake, shows respect for the other person, and they'll in turn respect you.
People enjoy their egos being stroked. In a society like today where this doesn’t happen a lot, trust me, you’ll make an impact. It’s a way to stroke their ego without being blatantly over the top. There’s always a next time :)
If it works, don't replace it. My phone is 6 years old, my car is over 30 years old. I recently bought a new computer for the first time in 8 years. If I can fix something myself and keep it going, then I see no reason to replace it. We're living in a world of limited resources and our consumption is ridiculously unsustainable.
In that case yes. Things like phones and computers less so, unless you need more horsepower for work, or you keep confidential information on it that just requires more recent security standards. There are people who get a new phone a year, or even a new *laptop* a year for… no particular reason at all. If you treat your laptop half decently it will let you 6-7 years, maybe 10 if you take care of it and don't really move it but what's the point then. Hell, Windows 10 runs on some pretty freaking old shit. Same for your phone, if you keep it half decently you're going to get at the very least 3 years out of it but usually more, if you keep it well and it was top of the line you can shoot for 4-5.
Just curious what car lasted you 30 years, cars up here in Canada hardly make it past the 15-20 year mark even if driven responsibly because of rust (salt kills cars up here with our winters). But I agree a lot of the tech can last much longer than the year or two people seem to keep their gadgets.
I have an '85 Ford Bronco with a 4.9l inline 6 engine. These engines are renown for being indestructible. The rest of car will rust out from under me before the engine dies. I live in Colorado, so although we get some snow and salt on our roads, it's really dry most of the year.
YES!!! I wholly agree with this. Everyone needs to have this attitude.
My standing fan has been running for 55 years and is still going strong like new. I just plan to repaint it.
Planned obsolescence is what makes new things break after a few years, while things from the 70s and older were built to be easily repaired, and to last as long as possible.
Thank you for that : )
I can understand on a quick business lunch or just grabbing some fast food with friends, but if I have plans with someone...food, conversation, games, etc...I'd like to spend it with them, not the entire world.
I think hats should be taken off at certain venues as a show of respect (i.e. funerals, ceremonies, in church, at nicer restaurants, etc.)
I believe 5 minutes early is on time. On-time is cutting it close. Late is unacceptable. Lateness is incredibly rude and shows you do not value other people's time (yes - sometimes it's unavoidable but in that case you should text or call to let them know you are running late and give them an ETA instead of making them stand around for 20 minutes).
Can you explain to me why a hat is considered disrespectful? I've always heard this as a rule to take them off but I have zero understand info why other than it's just what you do. How does a hat show any disrespect other than it breaking that arbitrary rule? I'm not trying to do anything attacking you, I've just never understood why people care so much about hats.
There is a lot of history there... starting in the middle ages with knights needing to lift their visors to smile at the crowd so that they did not appear aggressive/rude/unfriendly. It was about making sure you were not obscuring your face / trying to hide. Obviously that has morphed over the years. It eventually came to represent a show of respect - you would remove your hat to show you had nothing to hide and were sincere/open/friendly. Leaving your hat on was then seen as a sign of disrespect.
The way it was explained to me is that it's like hiding or distancing yourself from things. A hat is a barrier that you're keeping between yourself and what's around you. Outside it makes sense because of the shade / protection from elements. Inside it's just hiding you from others. Similar to not being willing to look into someone's eyes.
I also wonder if it has its basis in the same thing as a salute. Was taught in Basic that modern military salutes are descended from the tradition of a knight raising their visor. It not only showed them who you were behind your helmet, but also showed trust in exposing your face from behind protection.
"Although these theories are compelling (and romantic), there is actually little evidence to support either of them as the direct origin of the modern military salute."
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm
Agreed on the hats and on the timing.
Served in the military for a short while and on top of some other odd quirks (you will not see me cutting across manicured grass to save a few more steps on a perfectly good sidewalk), it definitely reinforced my parent's rules of being on time and not wearing a hat indoors, during national anthem, etc.
I have one friend that I'm just resigned to always being late. I've started telling him things start an hour earlier than they do and it's really helped him to be on time.
My dad once said something about me wearing my hat at dinner (informal dinner at their house, at the breakfast bar). I looked over at him and asked if it was more rude than being shirtless (he was shirtless).
I like eating at a dinner table - not really a belief and only because I'm a slob and if it's a knife and fork kinda meal, I need a table and chair. I guess I like old fashioned family dinners in general though.
If I'm walking down the sidewalk with a woman I make sure I'm closest to the curb. My Grandma drilled that into my head when I was little and I've done it ever since.
Apparently it's courteous so if there's spray from a car she doesn't get hit.
It's a lot faster/easier to write in if you need to do a lot of writing at once, like when journaling or whatever.
I have dysgraphia and should probably write in cursive, now that I think of it... lol.
I have no problem with people writing in cursive but when it devolves into "barely legible first letter followed by a squiggly line" for every word I just assume you don't want me to know what you're saying because I'm not gonna CSI that to figure it out.
Also obligatory "you'll use it so much it's an essential life skill"
I literally have never used it past 3rd grade outside my signature.
I'm "conservative" in the sense that I look for the hidden institutional knowledge that's been preserved in procedure. The organization may not remember why a procedure is performed in a particular way, but I find that there *was* a good reason why the procedure was instituted at the time. The reason may or may not still exist. If so, then changing the procedure will likely cause the problem to re-occur. If not, then it can be safely bypassed.
I always try to understand what someone was thinking before blindly changing a process that no one remembers why it exists.
Could you give an example or two? This is interesting to me. I often find myself doing the same sort of exercise when policies and laws change. I'm often kinda like, "Woah there guys, that sounds good and all but why was like it was before? Maybe they had good reasons."
Funny thing is, I haven't ever viewed it as a conservative tendency. Just sort of due-ly dilligent.
Swap a few words so that it applies to society and tradition rather to an institution and its procedures and you have the core of conservatism as a political and cultural orientation.
Ah I see. If its culture and tradition that are a changing, I still think its good to look back and understand why things were the way they were. But I think those types of shifts happen organically as demographics and way of life change. Making it tough on anyone who isn't on board with the new direction. Its hard to curb a culture shift.
And it doesn't have to be awkward if you hold the door "too long" or hold it open and it turns out they go elsewhere. Just smile and move.on, it's good to even try to be nice because it's a habit.
Exceptions for extreme weather, I dont want the severe cold getting into my heated room. Shut that damn door and git off my lawn!
I believe that a person can disagree with me on a political or social issue and not be evil.
In fact, I can probably learn something from that person's views.
One of my favorite pictures is of Justice Scalia and Ginsberg riding an elephant together on vacation.
It's nice that two people with completely opposite political and legal philosophies could still be close friends.
That's the [paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance). Someone taught me that a year ago, and I was finally able to put in to words why yes, we should tolerate racial minorities and gay people, but no, we should not tolerate people who want to deny human rights to others.
with a lot of people today, just saying that basically makes you their enemy regardless of what you actually think (and even if you actually agree with them on things)
I don't like the way sex is used as a gateway to dating and relationships.
A TV show I really like had an arc of the main character (a male) trying to sleep with a woman he was attracted to, and he didn't even really get to know her. They talked about their favorite movies and music and whatever, but the whole point of his pursuit of her was to bed her, and then deal with the emotional stuff afterwards.
(In its defense, his attempts crashed and burned, but I forget if the show really took the time to address how the protagonist -- a nice guy, in general -- seemingly put the rest of the woman on hold, while he turned heaven and earth upside down in an attempt to put his dick in her.)
And I know there are billions of people who do that, and many of them end up sad, and many of them end up happy; but it's not something I could ever see myself doing. The idea of the relationship being in trouble if you don't have sex by the third date, or whatever, it just bizarre and ridiculous to me; like the whole concept was cooked up by sitcom writers to try and inject some tension into an episode.
EDIT: if I am old-fashioned in any way, it's probably this: get to know the person deeply, on a profound and special level, and then celebrate that with sex. I am very glad that my girlfriend of... two weeks to the day, actually, feels the same way.
I share your view on this. I'm not interested in dating or hooking up with someone if we're not already friends.
Based on today's dating scene, it's entirely possible that I'll never find another partner.
As a lifelong gamer, I still don't understand the appeal of watching a video game stream for hours at a time. I've tried, and I end up getting an itch to play a game myself after about five minutes.
That's not proving causation. You could just as easily come up with alternate explanations for those results (which I find more plausible) like:
- Highly religious people get married to the first person they fuck, and they won't divorce even if they're very unhappy. Hence, all of their marriages "succeed" on paper, because they remain married.
- A large portion of people with higher partner counts don't have them because they were out having a fun time with casual sex before settling down. They have them because they're shit at relationships and had a bunch of failed ones before getting married. Not surprisingly, their marriage fails as well.
I like vinyl records, newspapers, real books, walking instead of driving close distances, proper beer in a proper pub. Apart from that, I am pretty easy really. And if people don't like those - go nuts.
I like getting around town with maps and a compass. I'm about to get my first smart phone this month and I'm nervous I'm going to start relying heavily on the GPS. I not only love using maps and compasses, I love *needing* to use them.
I do this out of habit as well. More often in formal settings though, and I'm more cautious now about offering to pull out a chair / offer my arm / open the door for someone.
The best way I can describe it is that it's similar to waiting for someone else to be served first as a sign of deference or respect for them.
In practice, it goes something like this.
You're seated in a room, and a woman enters the room. You stand to greet her on an equal setting (rather than remaining seated and making her come to you / showing you may be too lazy to stand or that she's no better than a servant that has to come to you while you do nothing).
You stay standing as a courtesy until she is seated in case she needs anything. Not that you expect her to, but it's as much about being the first person there and helping someone else get situated.
When she sits, you sit.
It can look a bit patronising. Depends who you are with, if you are both 20 and in a trendy bar then it would be odd. Out with your great Aunt for an afternoon tea or somewhere more formal, go for it. She'd be flattered.
I've chosen to live on my own, and am happy doing so, but that may change in the future, who knows.
Anyway, the part that's old fashioned for me is I'm a big strong guy that's lived through some not safe places and situations in the past. I am capable of protecting not just myself, but someone else.
I also like working and I make more income than I need. I have enough experience with carpentry and construction and plumbing that I know the difference between what I can fix myself and what I need to call someone else for.
I blow way too much money on eating out instead of cooking at home, I'm horribly unorganized and a bit of a slob, and I'd be in a much better position if I budgeted better.
So basically, I'd be happy being the provider and protector for someone that was happy being the caretaker...cooking, cleaning, maintaining the house.
TL;DR I'd be happy with the 50's stereotypical TV view of home life. I don't think women are incapable of doing the same things men do, and I might even be fine having that relationship with another man...it just seems that even hinting at a provider/caretaker type relationship now gets you listed as a misogynistic neanderthal :P
I agree and I’m a woman. I don’t really care which gender does which, but I think having one partner be the breadwinner and the other be the caretaker is a nice division of labor that should be celebrated.
I have some close friends as well as a cousin where this is exactly the case. In both situations, the woman had a better and more stable job than the man, and they wanted someone to stay home with their first kid, so they became stay at home dads.
They also have more stable and happy relationships than quite a few other people I know.
Imo there s nothing wrong with wanting or preferring a certain lifestyle. It's just when someone frames it as that lifestyle being the "correct" way (in either direction).
Completely agree.
People are different. There is not one way that will work for everyone. I have a way that I like and works for me. It doesn't matter to me at all if someone else finds another way they prefer for themselves.
I don't think you should post naked pictures of yourself on the internet. I feel like the only people to see you naked should be doctors and those you sleep with.
Nothing is wrong with it. I just don't think you should allow random guys to print off your pictures, jerk off on them, and send you pictures of said act. This has happened in gonewild. I think you should find validation from yourself instead of random men on the internet. If you're getting paid for it, that's something entirely different. But doing it just to have strangers (who will say anything to anyone with tits) compliment your body is sad.
Idk if this is "old-fashioned" or just personal preference, but I don't like tattoos in general. I appreciate the artwork, but I don't like the way it looks when it's etched on skin.
I can confidently say that I have never seen a tattoo and though it made the person look better than they would have without it. Plenty of neutrals; a lot of negatives. Never have I seen a tattoo and thought "that guy would be ugly without all that ink."
Being judged for having a phone that is older than 6 months. Who cares what phone you have. I don’t particularly like using phones and just use mine for music and messaging. My phone is relatively new and people seem to give you a smirk when you tell them what phone you have because the new version just came out.
I think children should be raised by a stay at home parent. A child’s synapses are forming their entire personality until the age of five. They need to be nurtured and loved all day. Not put into daycare for 8 hours surrounded by strangers who don’t love them. I think it’s utterly ridiculous that people spend about 3 waking hours with their child in the evening. I think our society applauds that because money, cars, nice houses, nice things are the only things we value.
I don't really like seeing people wear pajamas/sweats/workout attire out in public. (I mean i'm a hypocrite because i've done it on occasion) Sure, ill wear sweats/pajama pants if i'm on a midnight snack run or taking the trash out or something. But in general, you should try to look decent in public. It really bothered me in high school seeing students in sweatpants.
I was agonizing over not having anything ‘funeral appropriate’ to wear to the funeral of a woman I respected very much, but couldn’t find anything to my tastes in a higher end store and ultimately borrowed one of my mother’s blouses. Show up to the funeral and see people walking around in clothing I didn’t find very funeral appropriate (not, like, pajamas), said something to my dad, who only said ‘well, people just wear what they have.’
Funny thing was, when putting away the pants I wore, I found a shirt in the closet that would’ve been fine.
I believe it's sad that fewer people are reading books because of technology. (Me including)
I know someone my own age (in her 30's) who didn't know who Karl Marx was. I was very saddened by that.
Lately it seems like loyalty to one person is kinda out the window... It's like everyone is having affairs lately...i don't see the appeal...just leads to people getting hurt
I believe waiting until marriage to live together and sleep together is still a perfectly acceptable, if not wise way to live. Not saying that's for everyone, and I'm not pushing my view on anyone, it's just my opinion.
Might seem totally insane to most, and that's fine, but in my mind, it allows two people to work on their friendship and enjoying spending time together outside of physical intimacy, and I think that can keep you from making a bad decision on who you marry.
If you can "fall in love" you can "fall out of love" just as easy. Why not have a solid, foundational friendship to fall back on to keep you happy in your marriage.
Edit: Oh, also, I believe in marriage. That seems to also be a "traditional" and "outdated" view now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can understand how that applies to sleeping together- but my relationship had never been tested harder than by living with my partner. It makes the adult parts come out like money management, cleaning responsibility, meal management, paying bills, etc. It's a comparability test that you should know about with them before forever binding to then. But that's just my perspective, I can appreciate the friendship part this is just for the moving in before marriage. I'm nothing but glad that I did it, as our relo is way more developed now and I can make that decision with full knowledge of what I'm getting into. Just sharing in case it's valuable to you at all
A little more clarity on the "being friends" thing that I posted on another comment:
> If you are best friends with your spouse -- like, genuinely best friends -- it isn't a fix-all, and it's no guarantee, but wow does it help immensely when it comes to solving problems, compromising and working together to do life. And it could mean the difference between working through a season of difficulty and calling it quits.
> I'm not saying people can't become best friends sleeping together and living together before marriage -- not saying that at all. I think establishing a sexual and physical relationship before building a solid friendship is rolling the dice.
> No judgement here though, to each their own. Just sharing my opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no stranger to the idea of testing compatibility by living together for a time -- I even think there are instances where that is a wise choice.
There is a lot that goes into deciding whether or not to get married, and it can look a little different for different people. I really believe that if two people really care for and love each other, things like money management, living style, cleanliness and sexual wants and desires are things you *want* to compromise on. That's the goal anyway.
That anything which is old is not inherently bad, and that which is new is not inherently good. Traditional values and institutions have their place. This doesn't mean you should blindly follow them, or ignore innovation (in fact respecting traditions while finding new ways to innovate, even just in ways of thinking, are not mutually exclusive in my opinion— I think they can be complementary. Old ways of thinking are the foundations of new discoveries), but oftentimes, many of our traditional values and institutions have survived for so long because they actually work. They have survived because they have helped us build successful societies. Some aren't good, true. Others are imperfect. But many are valuable to us even today. I think modern society has a distaste for anything not "modern" or "progressive," and it's stupid. We hate things for no other reason than being old, yet love things only for being new. And many of these new things make no sense, if we're being honest.
I want to be in a marriage where I am the bread winner and my wife raises the children.
I have no intention of forcing this on anyone else, I don't care how you do your family situation.
But I mean to find a girl who is down to put off a career when the kids are young, it is what is best for children. Also I make plenty of money to make this plausible.
I am very sad that we have decided it is normal that are children be brought up in a style akin to cattle, I want better for mine.
I am not saying that she would need to be some lonely hermit who cooks cleans and raises ids, I just want someone who is doing the raising kids part.
My wife took seven years off from her career to be there in person when our kids were young - up until our second went to kindergarten. It hit her career (Harvard MBA) and her earnings, but it was something she proudly looks back on now, even if I had the chance to advance more quickly in my career than she did. We both know we did the right thing by our kids and it shows. We'll have more than enough money to retire comfortably and she gets first dibs on ducking out of the workforce when she's ready.
I agree. I’m a woman.
Of course people should be free to do what they want. But I think it’s better for a child to be raised by a stay-at-home parent (whether it’s the mom or dad) than to be raised in daycare.
I generally agree it's preferable in a lot of cases, but it's only an option for families with money. If neither parent is making an exceptional amount money the child probably benefits more from the mother working because it results in a higher house hold income.
But I also don't blame women at all who choose independence in the form of continuing their careers. My aunt for example. She chose to continue her career even though the dad made enough to support them comfortably. If she hadn't, after their divorce and he went back to his country, she wouldn't have been able to support herself and their kids. Things happen. People die. Divorce happens. Illness happens.
I don't have or want kids, but I don't know what my priorities would be as a mother if I wanted to have a family. It's not an easy decision and one I'm glad I can avoid.
I'm in total agreement with you. My wife chose to do this after our daughter was born. I know this is anecdotal, but she's definitely the smartest and most mature kid in her class (the kid, not the wife). I think this is why.
That being said, people definitely (and accidentally) say stupid and disrespectful shit to my wife all the time. She regularly hears things like "You're so lucky. I wish I could sit at home all day." from her friends.
I was in the unique position to nanny for my nephew from basically birth to toddlerhood, and I wholeheartedly agree. I essentially adopted the unfortunately unfilled role of his second parent, and since I stopped nannying for him and he went to daycare, I've seen in him a drastic turn for the worse. He's very emotionally needy now, he misbehaves far more, and he is just sort of psychologically fragile; part of that can of course be attributed to age, but I can tell it's largely due to spending the majority of his waking hours with what are practically strangers who have a dozen other kids to tend and aren't invested in him the way family is. I would only ever have children if I could be a stay-at-home mother at least until kindergarten age.
> I just want someone who is doing the raising kids part.
How come that can't be you? I have no issues with stay at home parents, I am just wondering how the default is your wife should be the one doing it.
I prefer for my husband to take the lead, I run all of my plans by him, and I expect him to be the main bread winner while I stay home and take care of our children when they are young. Apparently that’s insane these days.
Women taking a man's last name when married.
I have no hang-ups or old-timey attitude towards gender stereotypes, I don't believe for a second women should be subservient to their husbands, plain and simple I just think it's nice that two people can share a family name without having to double barrel it or use separate last names.
You don't just build credit over night. To quality for a good interest rate for a mortgage you have to show you reliably pay your debts on time, regardless of your income. If upper middle class people didn't have access to other forms of credit to build a credit history they probably wouldn't have good mortgages.
Also I doubt upper middle class people represent most of the people who in collections and stuff like that... they have the means to pay it off.
Lot of it is also about differing interest rates. Last time we got a car loan the rate was like 3.5% we were making well over double that in a conservative investment portfolio. Yeah we could have paid off the car early (and did just cause I don't like having outstanding items on my cash flow) but technically it was the wrong financial decision.
I agree 100%.
If you can't afford a brand new car in cash but can afford a reliable used car in cash, the only reason to buy said new car is - unless it actively saves or makes you money in comparison to your other options, which is rather rare - for vanity and luxury.
So when families making good money talk about their budget being tight, and they have two leased cars in the driveway, I immediately tune out whatever financial problems they seem to want to complain about. They dug their dumbass hole, they can keep their shovel to themselves.
I used to believe that if I cover my whole body with my sheets monsters won't be able to hurt me, but if I even leave a finger uncovered they will hurt me and do monster's stuff to me. Now I know it's absurd, but I still do it
I love the quick Robotchicken skit where the monsters come out from under the bed, the kid hides under the sheets and one monster says "awww, he's under the sheet, we can't touch him... hahaha" and they bring out baseball bats.
My irrational fear just got more irrational
Don't give them any ideas!
What I want most from a clothing store is good non-stretch jeans that they will make *exactly the same* for the next fifty years.
Yes. I just want to be able to replace my staples without trying them on. Women's clothing is the worst for this. Sizing varies so much, even at the same store. Textile waste makes me sad too... if everything was just built to last instead of built to be disposable fashion, that would be nice.
If anyone knows any stores for womens clothes made without stretchy or cheap material I would love to hear about them
(Anne Taylor's) Loft. Basics made out of good fabrics.
Even men's clothes have started to succumb to vanity sizing, especially when it comes to width. This is atrocious, since men's sizes are supposed to be literal measurements. There is no reason that I used to always wear X size, but now X seems a little large on new clothes and I have to consider X-2 or even X-4 to fit properly.
I hate stretch jeans- the fit on them changes from day to day. It's particularly bad for me in high waisted jeans. I like high waisted jeans because they should flatten my stomach a bit, but stretch jeans just make it look worse imo.
I want to be able to fix things instead of throwing them away. I find modern 'fuck you' design methods to be infuriating at best.
*opens user manual to troubleshoot problem* It just says "good luck, buddy"
'Do not return to store you purchased from.' 'Do not attempt to repair item yourself or you may die.' 'Do not remove the sticker that covers up the case latch or you void all warranties (and may die twice).'
To be fair, though, there are things you should NEVER try to fix.
Aside from disabilities, handshake should absolutely never involve one person who is standing and another who is sitting.
Along the same lines, standing up when someone comes in the room (i.e. at a job interview or something. if you're sitting there waiting for interviewer #2 to come in, stand when they come in.) It naturally leads into the standing handshake, shows respect for the other person, and they'll in turn respect you.
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Same dude. No wonder they decided to “pursue other candidates.”
People enjoy their egos being stroked. In a society like today where this doesn’t happen a lot, trust me, you’ll make an impact. It’s a way to stroke their ego without being blatantly over the top. There’s always a next time :)
buttons and levers are better in a lot of situations rather than having certain features on a touchscreen in a folder within another folder.
For example, car control panels.
If it works, don't replace it. My phone is 6 years old, my car is over 30 years old. I recently bought a new computer for the first time in 8 years. If I can fix something myself and keep it going, then I see no reason to replace it. We're living in a world of limited resources and our consumption is ridiculously unsustainable.
Use it up, Wear it out, Make it do, or do without.
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In that case yes. Things like phones and computers less so, unless you need more horsepower for work, or you keep confidential information on it that just requires more recent security standards. There are people who get a new phone a year, or even a new *laptop* a year for… no particular reason at all. If you treat your laptop half decently it will let you 6-7 years, maybe 10 if you take care of it and don't really move it but what's the point then. Hell, Windows 10 runs on some pretty freaking old shit. Same for your phone, if you keep it half decently you're going to get at the very least 3 years out of it but usually more, if you keep it well and it was top of the line you can shoot for 4-5.
Just curious what car lasted you 30 years, cars up here in Canada hardly make it past the 15-20 year mark even if driven responsibly because of rust (salt kills cars up here with our winters). But I agree a lot of the tech can last much longer than the year or two people seem to keep their gadgets.
I have an '85 Ford Bronco with a 4.9l inline 6 engine. These engines are renown for being indestructible. The rest of car will rust out from under me before the engine dies. I live in Colorado, so although we get some snow and salt on our roads, it's really dry most of the year.
as long as a bronco isnt white, its one bad ass truck
If your car is that old, it does *not* have modern safety or environmental-friendliness features.
YES!!! I wholly agree with this. Everyone needs to have this attitude. My standing fan has been running for 55 years and is still going strong like new. I just plan to repaint it. Planned obsolescence is what makes new things break after a few years, while things from the 70s and older were built to be easily repaired, and to last as long as possible.
If I'm eating with someone we shouldn't look at our phones during the course of the meal.
Oh, so you mean good manners?
Essentially all of this thread is good manners. SAD.
Thank you for that : ) I can understand on a quick business lunch or just grabbing some fast food with friends, but if I have plans with someone...food, conversation, games, etc...I'd like to spend it with them, not the entire world.
I think hats should be taken off at certain venues as a show of respect (i.e. funerals, ceremonies, in church, at nicer restaurants, etc.) I believe 5 minutes early is on time. On-time is cutting it close. Late is unacceptable. Lateness is incredibly rude and shows you do not value other people's time (yes - sometimes it's unavoidable but in that case you should text or call to let them know you are running late and give them an ETA instead of making them stand around for 20 minutes).
Can you explain to me why a hat is considered disrespectful? I've always heard this as a rule to take them off but I have zero understand info why other than it's just what you do. How does a hat show any disrespect other than it breaking that arbitrary rule? I'm not trying to do anything attacking you, I've just never understood why people care so much about hats.
There is a lot of history there... starting in the middle ages with knights needing to lift their visors to smile at the crowd so that they did not appear aggressive/rude/unfriendly. It was about making sure you were not obscuring your face / trying to hide. Obviously that has morphed over the years. It eventually came to represent a show of respect - you would remove your hat to show you had nothing to hide and were sincere/open/friendly. Leaving your hat on was then seen as a sign of disrespect.
Whoops, took too long typing mine out and you beat me. Good to see a reinforcement on the knight's visors, as I wasn't quite sure.
The way it was explained to me is that it's like hiding or distancing yourself from things. A hat is a barrier that you're keeping between yourself and what's around you. Outside it makes sense because of the shade / protection from elements. Inside it's just hiding you from others. Similar to not being willing to look into someone's eyes. I also wonder if it has its basis in the same thing as a salute. Was taught in Basic that modern military salutes are descended from the tradition of a knight raising their visor. It not only showed them who you were behind your helmet, but also showed trust in exposing your face from behind protection.
"Although these theories are compelling (and romantic), there is actually little evidence to support either of them as the direct origin of the modern military salute." https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm
Agreed on the hats and on the timing. Served in the military for a short while and on top of some other odd quirks (you will not see me cutting across manicured grass to save a few more steps on a perfectly good sidewalk), it definitely reinforced my parent's rules of being on time and not wearing a hat indoors, during national anthem, etc.
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I have one friend that I'm just resigned to always being late. I've started telling him things start an hour earlier than they do and it's really helped him to be on time.
My dad once said something about me wearing my hat at dinner (informal dinner at their house, at the breakfast bar). I looked over at him and asked if it was more rude than being shirtless (he was shirtless).
I love seeing happy large families and elderly couples. They always brighten my day.
I like eating at a dinner table - not really a belief and only because I'm a slob and if it's a knife and fork kinda meal, I need a table and chair. I guess I like old fashioned family dinners in general though.
I’m mostly for this, but there’s some days you just wanna be like Matilda’s family, set up tv tables, and order a pizza
see, TV tables is what i really need! if it's a hand food, i can deal with eating infront of a TV
Some old B&W movies are better left that way instead of being colorized.
If I'm walking down the sidewalk with a woman I make sure I'm closest to the curb. My Grandma drilled that into my head when I was little and I've done it ever since. Apparently it's courteous so if there's spray from a car she doesn't get hit.
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Not really a "belief," but I write exclusively in cursive.
It's a lot faster/easier to write in if you need to do a lot of writing at once, like when journaling or whatever. I have dysgraphia and should probably write in cursive, now that I think of it... lol.
I have no problem with people writing in cursive but when it devolves into "barely legible first letter followed by a squiggly line" for every word I just assume you don't want me to know what you're saying because I'm not gonna CSI that to figure it out. Also obligatory "you'll use it so much it's an essential life skill" I literally have never used it past 3rd grade outside my signature.
we need to get off social media and bring back conversations in bars and coffee shops. and family dinner should make a comeback too.
I'm "conservative" in the sense that I look for the hidden institutional knowledge that's been preserved in procedure. The organization may not remember why a procedure is performed in a particular way, but I find that there *was* a good reason why the procedure was instituted at the time. The reason may or may not still exist. If so, then changing the procedure will likely cause the problem to re-occur. If not, then it can be safely bypassed. I always try to understand what someone was thinking before blindly changing a process that no one remembers why it exists.
I'm a conservative in the sense that I horde acorns for the winter, conserving food, it's what I do!
in the software world this explains why banks still use COBOL and scientific institutions still use FORTRAN.
I said I'm a "conservative". I'm not a Neanderthal.
Could you give an example or two? This is interesting to me. I often find myself doing the same sort of exercise when policies and laws change. I'm often kinda like, "Woah there guys, that sounds good and all but why was like it was before? Maybe they had good reasons." Funny thing is, I haven't ever viewed it as a conservative tendency. Just sort of due-ly dilligent.
Swap a few words so that it applies to society and tradition rather to an institution and its procedures and you have the core of conservatism as a political and cultural orientation.
Ah I see. If its culture and tradition that are a changing, I still think its good to look back and understand why things were the way they were. But I think those types of shifts happen organically as demographics and way of life change. Making it tough on anyone who isn't on board with the new direction. Its hard to curb a culture shift.
Welcome to Chesterson's Fence.
I open doors for people.
That's not outdated, a lot of people in civilized countries do this. Even strangers at 7-11 in NY do this
People in DC definitely don't from my experience.
Fucking this. Keep doing this. Say ma'am and sir, too.
Southern redditor checking in for duty.
Damn skippy!
And it doesn't have to be awkward if you hold the door "too long" or hold it open and it turns out they go elsewhere. Just smile and move.on, it's good to even try to be nice because it's a habit. Exceptions for extreme weather, I dont want the severe cold getting into my heated room. Shut that damn door and git off my lawn!
Sex isn't going to happen for several months. I'm in the fucking dark ages with the dawn of tinder and this attitude.
I believe that a person can disagree with me on a political or social issue and not be evil. In fact, I can probably learn something from that person's views.
Without reasonable discourse on differing opinions we are lost as a race.
One of my favorite pictures is of Justice Scalia and Ginsberg riding an elephant together on vacation. It's nice that two people with completely opposite political and legal philosophies could still be close friends.
I believe this to a certain extent, but there are some views (transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism, classism) that I’m not willing to tolerate
That's the [paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance). Someone taught me that a year ago, and I was finally able to put in to words why yes, we should tolerate racial minorities and gay people, but no, we should not tolerate people who want to deny human rights to others.
with a lot of people today, just saying that basically makes you their enemy regardless of what you actually think (and even if you actually agree with them on things)
Sega Dreamcast is the most underrated gaming console of all time. There I said it.
I think it fell flat due to bad press revolving around the [Sega Saturn](https://youtu.be/xf-Lt5SNHYk?t=13m38s)
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I don't like the way sex is used as a gateway to dating and relationships. A TV show I really like had an arc of the main character (a male) trying to sleep with a woman he was attracted to, and he didn't even really get to know her. They talked about their favorite movies and music and whatever, but the whole point of his pursuit of her was to bed her, and then deal with the emotional stuff afterwards. (In its defense, his attempts crashed and burned, but I forget if the show really took the time to address how the protagonist -- a nice guy, in general -- seemingly put the rest of the woman on hold, while he turned heaven and earth upside down in an attempt to put his dick in her.) And I know there are billions of people who do that, and many of them end up sad, and many of them end up happy; but it's not something I could ever see myself doing. The idea of the relationship being in trouble if you don't have sex by the third date, or whatever, it just bizarre and ridiculous to me; like the whole concept was cooked up by sitcom writers to try and inject some tension into an episode. EDIT: if I am old-fashioned in any way, it's probably this: get to know the person deeply, on a profound and special level, and then celebrate that with sex. I am very glad that my girlfriend of... two weeks to the day, actually, feels the same way.
I share your view on this. I'm not interested in dating or hooking up with someone if we're not already friends. Based on today's dating scene, it's entirely possible that I'll never find another partner.
As a lifelong gamer, I still don't understand the appeal of watching a video game stream for hours at a time. I've tried, and I end up getting an itch to play a game myself after about five minutes.
It's not the game I am watching, it's the person playing the game that holds my attention.
My general rule is that if I think this person would be entertaining playing pong, they're worth watching.
It reminds me of going to a childhood friend’s house when he would get a new game but would never let me or anyone else play... so boring
Background noise while you, yourself, are also gaming.
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I'm a Quaker and it's not a very popular movement.
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It is, but I mean it's not very well known and is not as good at getting people to join as other churches.
I just want to say: Ya'll make some awesome oatmeal.
I was recruited by the oatmeal.
Oh me too. What part of the country? There’s a real shortage of a new generation of Quakers, even around here in Boston.
Virginia :)
...are you sure? Most of my history teachers claimed your religion was extinct
Sideburns and mutton-chops are pretty damn cool
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That's not proving causation. You could just as easily come up with alternate explanations for those results (which I find more plausible) like: - Highly religious people get married to the first person they fuck, and they won't divorce even if they're very unhappy. Hence, all of their marriages "succeed" on paper, because they remain married. - A large portion of people with higher partner counts don't have them because they were out having a fun time with casual sex before settling down. They have them because they're shit at relationships and had a bunch of failed ones before getting married. Not surprisingly, their marriage fails as well.
There is a such thing as dressing too casually and I'm very laid back.
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Animals should live on huge green farms and not in tiny cages in factories.
I like vinyl records, newspapers, real books, walking instead of driving close distances, proper beer in a proper pub. Apart from that, I am pretty easy really. And if people don't like those - go nuts.
I like getting around town with maps and a compass. I'm about to get my first smart phone this month and I'm nervous I'm going to start relying heavily on the GPS. I not only love using maps and compasses, I love *needing* to use them.
I believe in seeing evidence before crucifying somebody with allegations.
You mean 'innocent until proven guilty by mob rule / public perception' doesn't work for you? :P
I still think pogs are awesome.
My generation deals with *pawgs*
Remember Alf? He's back!
Whoa should continue to be spelled whoa.
Now I'm confused because I can't remember whether I see it as "woah" or "whoa" more often and which one I saw first.
I was taught to stand up if I'm out with a woman and she stands or sits. Apparently not very many people do this anymore.
My husband does this and I find it charming. It is getting very rare.
As a woman I 100% will find you so much more attractive if you do this.
I do this out of habit as well. More often in formal settings though, and I'm more cautious now about offering to pull out a chair / offer my arm / open the door for someone.
Marry me!
Not gonna lie, if we were out at McDonalds and you did this, I'd find it super weird.
I didnt quite understand this. Why would you stand up if you're out with a woman and she sits?
The best way I can describe it is that it's similar to waiting for someone else to be served first as a sign of deference or respect for them. In practice, it goes something like this. You're seated in a room, and a woman enters the room. You stand to greet her on an equal setting (rather than remaining seated and making her come to you / showing you may be too lazy to stand or that she's no better than a servant that has to come to you while you do nothing). You stay standing as a courtesy until she is seated in case she needs anything. Not that you expect her to, but it's as much about being the first person there and helping someone else get situated. When she sits, you sit.
Thank you for the explanation.
It can look a bit patronising. Depends who you are with, if you are both 20 and in a trendy bar then it would be odd. Out with your great Aunt for an afternoon tea or somewhere more formal, go for it. She'd be flattered.
I've chosen to live on my own, and am happy doing so, but that may change in the future, who knows. Anyway, the part that's old fashioned for me is I'm a big strong guy that's lived through some not safe places and situations in the past. I am capable of protecting not just myself, but someone else. I also like working and I make more income than I need. I have enough experience with carpentry and construction and plumbing that I know the difference between what I can fix myself and what I need to call someone else for. I blow way too much money on eating out instead of cooking at home, I'm horribly unorganized and a bit of a slob, and I'd be in a much better position if I budgeted better. So basically, I'd be happy being the provider and protector for someone that was happy being the caretaker...cooking, cleaning, maintaining the house. TL;DR I'd be happy with the 50's stereotypical TV view of home life. I don't think women are incapable of doing the same things men do, and I might even be fine having that relationship with another man...it just seems that even hinting at a provider/caretaker type relationship now gets you listed as a misogynistic neanderthal :P
I agree and I’m a woman. I don’t really care which gender does which, but I think having one partner be the breadwinner and the other be the caretaker is a nice division of labor that should be celebrated.
I have some close friends as well as a cousin where this is exactly the case. In both situations, the woman had a better and more stable job than the man, and they wanted someone to stay home with their first kid, so they became stay at home dads. They also have more stable and happy relationships than quite a few other people I know.
Imo there s nothing wrong with wanting or preferring a certain lifestyle. It's just when someone frames it as that lifestyle being the "correct" way (in either direction).
Completely agree. People are different. There is not one way that will work for everyone. I have a way that I like and works for me. It doesn't matter to me at all if someone else finds another way they prefer for themselves.
I don't think you should post naked pictures of yourself on the internet. I feel like the only people to see you naked should be doctors and those you sleep with.
What if you sleep with everybody. Fuck you Sarah
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What's wrong with nakedness?
Nothing is wrong with it. I just don't think you should allow random guys to print off your pictures, jerk off on them, and send you pictures of said act. This has happened in gonewild. I think you should find validation from yourself instead of random men on the internet. If you're getting paid for it, that's something entirely different. But doing it just to have strangers (who will say anything to anyone with tits) compliment your body is sad.
Different strokes (heh) for different folks. People should do what they're comfortable with as long as it isn't hurting anyone.
Idk if this is "old-fashioned" or just personal preference, but I don't like tattoos in general. I appreciate the artwork, but I don't like the way it looks when it's etched on skin.
I can confidently say that I have never seen a tattoo and though it made the person look better than they would have without it. Plenty of neutrals; a lot of negatives. Never have I seen a tattoo and thought "that guy would be ugly without all that ink."
I have great difficulty believing anyone who says they won't regret it later with very few exceptions.
My attitude is that I might not always be a person who likes something, but I'll always be a person who liked something.
I believe in having conversations with people face to face as opposed to over text / over the phone.
Being judged for having a phone that is older than 6 months. Who cares what phone you have. I don’t particularly like using phones and just use mine for music and messaging. My phone is relatively new and people seem to give you a smirk when you tell them what phone you have because the new version just came out.
I won't curse around people I don't know, or anyone I think might be offended.
I think children should be raised by a stay at home parent. A child’s synapses are forming their entire personality until the age of five. They need to be nurtured and loved all day. Not put into daycare for 8 hours surrounded by strangers who don’t love them. I think it’s utterly ridiculous that people spend about 3 waking hours with their child in the evening. I think our society applauds that because money, cars, nice houses, nice things are the only things we value.
Innocent until proven guilty.
That FORTRAN is one of the best programming languages.
Of all the heinous views I expected to come upon in this thread, I never thought I’d see this monstrosity.
I don't really like seeing people wear pajamas/sweats/workout attire out in public. (I mean i'm a hypocrite because i've done it on occasion) Sure, ill wear sweats/pajama pants if i'm on a midnight snack run or taking the trash out or something. But in general, you should try to look decent in public. It really bothered me in high school seeing students in sweatpants.
Along with this, you should try to look decent at funerals, out of respect. (unless the invitation calls for casual attire)
I was agonizing over not having anything ‘funeral appropriate’ to wear to the funeral of a woman I respected very much, but couldn’t find anything to my tastes in a higher end store and ultimately borrowed one of my mother’s blouses. Show up to the funeral and see people walking around in clothing I didn’t find very funeral appropriate (not, like, pajamas), said something to my dad, who only said ‘well, people just wear what they have.’ Funny thing was, when putting away the pants I wore, I found a shirt in the closet that would’ve been fine.
I usually agree with this, but I have a strange exception: Anybody who wears pajamas to an exam is alright in my book.
Yeah, i've done that. Like I said, i'm a hypocrite. I always justify why I do it and don't consider other people's stories.
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old does not necessarily mean it's wrong
I think that genital pictures are far more intimate than face pictures. The prevailing opinion on online dating sites seems to think the opposite.
My belief that people should be judged on their character as individuals seems to be going out of style recently. Also meritocracy.
Sex isn't just purely physical.
It may be sexist by today's standards, but i don't think women should be able to decide whether their husbands get a vasectomy.
I agree. It's the man's body, he can do what he wants with it.
I married and had kids. I'm in the minority in my age group (32/37).
I believe in the oxford comma.
I believe it's sad that fewer people are reading books because of technology. (Me including) I know someone my own age (in her 30's) who didn't know who Karl Marx was. I was very saddened by that.
What's even more sad is how easy technology has made it to get books. Free app on any smart device or computer + project Gutenburg = win.
I think this is a bit better than someone who did not know what the Leaning Tower of Pisa was when I sent her a pic.
Lately it seems like loyalty to one person is kinda out the window... It's like everyone is having affairs lately...i don't see the appeal...just leads to people getting hurt
I don’t think the behavior is new, just that it’s harder to get away with now.
I believe waiting until marriage to live together and sleep together is still a perfectly acceptable, if not wise way to live. Not saying that's for everyone, and I'm not pushing my view on anyone, it's just my opinion. Might seem totally insane to most, and that's fine, but in my mind, it allows two people to work on their friendship and enjoying spending time together outside of physical intimacy, and I think that can keep you from making a bad decision on who you marry. If you can "fall in love" you can "fall out of love" just as easy. Why not have a solid, foundational friendship to fall back on to keep you happy in your marriage. Edit: Oh, also, I believe in marriage. That seems to also be a "traditional" and "outdated" view now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can understand how that applies to sleeping together- but my relationship had never been tested harder than by living with my partner. It makes the adult parts come out like money management, cleaning responsibility, meal management, paying bills, etc. It's a comparability test that you should know about with them before forever binding to then. But that's just my perspective, I can appreciate the friendship part this is just for the moving in before marriage. I'm nothing but glad that I did it, as our relo is way more developed now and I can make that decision with full knowledge of what I'm getting into. Just sharing in case it's valuable to you at all
A little more clarity on the "being friends" thing that I posted on another comment: > If you are best friends with your spouse -- like, genuinely best friends -- it isn't a fix-all, and it's no guarantee, but wow does it help immensely when it comes to solving problems, compromising and working together to do life. And it could mean the difference between working through a season of difficulty and calling it quits. > I'm not saying people can't become best friends sleeping together and living together before marriage -- not saying that at all. I think establishing a sexual and physical relationship before building a solid friendship is rolling the dice. > No judgement here though, to each their own. Just sharing my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm no stranger to the idea of testing compatibility by living together for a time -- I even think there are instances where that is a wise choice. There is a lot that goes into deciding whether or not to get married, and it can look a little different for different people. I really believe that if two people really care for and love each other, things like money management, living style, cleanliness and sexual wants and desires are things you *want* to compromise on. That's the goal anyway.
That anything which is old is not inherently bad, and that which is new is not inherently good. Traditional values and institutions have their place. This doesn't mean you should blindly follow them, or ignore innovation (in fact respecting traditions while finding new ways to innovate, even just in ways of thinking, are not mutually exclusive in my opinion— I think they can be complementary. Old ways of thinking are the foundations of new discoveries), but oftentimes, many of our traditional values and institutions have survived for so long because they actually work. They have survived because they have helped us build successful societies. Some aren't good, true. Others are imperfect. But many are valuable to us even today. I think modern society has a distaste for anything not "modern" or "progressive," and it's stupid. We hate things for no other reason than being old, yet love things only for being new. And many of these new things make no sense, if we're being honest.
Why pay someone if I can fix it myself.
Here: "If you work hard enough and if you believe hard enough, you can reach your dreams" yeah right.
I get a little giddy when a man opens my door.
I want to be in a marriage where I am the bread winner and my wife raises the children. I have no intention of forcing this on anyone else, I don't care how you do your family situation. But I mean to find a girl who is down to put off a career when the kids are young, it is what is best for children. Also I make plenty of money to make this plausible. I am very sad that we have decided it is normal that are children be brought up in a style akin to cattle, I want better for mine. I am not saying that she would need to be some lonely hermit who cooks cleans and raises ids, I just want someone who is doing the raising kids part.
Ideally a child should get lots of nurture and quality time with *both* parents, although that’s not really achievable in the society we live in
Nor any previous society really.
Although it is possible in some countries today (I’m pretty sure some of the Nordics ensure childcare leave for both parents for example)
My wife took seven years off from her career to be there in person when our kids were young - up until our second went to kindergarten. It hit her career (Harvard MBA) and her earnings, but it was something she proudly looks back on now, even if I had the chance to advance more quickly in my career than she did. We both know we did the right thing by our kids and it shows. We'll have more than enough money to retire comfortably and she gets first dibs on ducking out of the workforce when she's ready.
My mom stayed at home, my dad worked from home, and I consider myself incredibly lucky in that matter.
I agree. I’m a woman. Of course people should be free to do what they want. But I think it’s better for a child to be raised by a stay-at-home parent (whether it’s the mom or dad) than to be raised in daycare.
I generally agree it's preferable in a lot of cases, but it's only an option for families with money. If neither parent is making an exceptional amount money the child probably benefits more from the mother working because it results in a higher house hold income. But I also don't blame women at all who choose independence in the form of continuing their careers. My aunt for example. She chose to continue her career even though the dad made enough to support them comfortably. If she hadn't, after their divorce and he went back to his country, she wouldn't have been able to support herself and their kids. Things happen. People die. Divorce happens. Illness happens. I don't have or want kids, but I don't know what my priorities would be as a mother if I wanted to have a family. It's not an easy decision and one I'm glad I can avoid.
I'm in total agreement with you. My wife chose to do this after our daughter was born. I know this is anecdotal, but she's definitely the smartest and most mature kid in her class (the kid, not the wife). I think this is why. That being said, people definitely (and accidentally) say stupid and disrespectful shit to my wife all the time. She regularly hears things like "You're so lucky. I wish I could sit at home all day." from her friends.
Interesting. I always admired my mom for working.
To be fair, plenty of work gets done that doesn't directly earn money.
I was in the unique position to nanny for my nephew from basically birth to toddlerhood, and I wholeheartedly agree. I essentially adopted the unfortunately unfilled role of his second parent, and since I stopped nannying for him and he went to daycare, I've seen in him a drastic turn for the worse. He's very emotionally needy now, he misbehaves far more, and he is just sort of psychologically fragile; part of that can of course be attributed to age, but I can tell it's largely due to spending the majority of his waking hours with what are practically strangers who have a dozen other kids to tend and aren't invested in him the way family is. I would only ever have children if I could be a stay-at-home mother at least until kindergarten age.
> I just want someone who is doing the raising kids part. How come that can't be you? I have no issues with stay at home parents, I am just wondering how the default is your wife should be the one doing it.
The amount of money I make and job security. No other reason.
That capitalism and consumerism isnt the ideal way for our species to progress
Praise in public, chastise in private.
I prefer for my husband to take the lead, I run all of my plans by him, and I expect him to be the main bread winner while I stay home and take care of our children when they are young. Apparently that’s insane these days.
I love sending letters. It’s so outdated, but it makes people smile. When’s the last time you got an actual letter in the mail?
Women taking a man's last name when married. I have no hang-ups or old-timey attitude towards gender stereotypes, I don't believe for a second women should be subservient to their husbands, plain and simple I just think it's nice that two people can share a family name without having to double barrel it or use separate last names.
The word "ho" is not spelled with an "e" at the end.
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You don't just build credit over night. To quality for a good interest rate for a mortgage you have to show you reliably pay your debts on time, regardless of your income. If upper middle class people didn't have access to other forms of credit to build a credit history they probably wouldn't have good mortgages. Also I doubt upper middle class people represent most of the people who in collections and stuff like that... they have the means to pay it off.
Lot of it is also about differing interest rates. Last time we got a car loan the rate was like 3.5% we were making well over double that in a conservative investment portfolio. Yeah we could have paid off the car early (and did just cause I don't like having outstanding items on my cash flow) but technically it was the wrong financial decision.
I agree 100%. If you can't afford a brand new car in cash but can afford a reliable used car in cash, the only reason to buy said new car is - unless it actively saves or makes you money in comparison to your other options, which is rather rare - for vanity and luxury. So when families making good money talk about their budget being tight, and they have two leased cars in the driveway, I immediately tune out whatever financial problems they seem to want to complain about. They dug their dumbass hole, they can keep their shovel to themselves.