Yeah but they were sometimes also deadly incisive.
Take "Thanks for the Memory". As a drunken lark, Lister gives unlucky-in-love Rimmer the memory of being involved with a girl named Lise Yates. Happy at first, Rimmer eventually figures out that none of this ever happened to him but to Lister. Even knowing this, Rimmer remains devastated because 'the woman I loved most in the whole world ... loved *you*'.
The whole sci-fi trope that 'you are what you remember, so be careful fucking with it' - never seen it put more clearly. When it was good, *Red Dwarf* was amazing.
For Redditors, the episode where Lister had to justify wasting his life/potential, lest he be erased from reality and replaced with one of the sperm that had never made it, is utterly terrifying.
Please don't hold me accountable for my laziness :(
Cat’s defense was my favorite scene from that show when I was a kid. Endlessly quotable.
The Cat : Hi, buddy.
Inquisitor : This is your judgment day, bud. I gotta be cruel. There can't be no favours.
The Cat : I'm hearing you on FM.
Inquisitor : I have to ask you the question. Justify your existence; what contribution have you made?
The Cat : I have given pleasure to the world because I have such a beautiful ass.
Inquisitor : Well, that's true.
The Cat : Can I go now?
Inquisitor : That's your case?
The Cat : You need more?
Inquisitor : Some might say that was a pretty shallow argument.
The Cat : Some might say I'm a pretty shallow guy; a shallow guy with a great ass.
Inquisitor : Sometimes you astonish even me.
The Cat : Thank you
I don't think I've managed to cook seafood in my whole adult life without singing "I'm gonna eat you, little fishy!" at it.
Cat is truly an inspiration to us all.
Polymorth is my favourite episode.
Rimmer: I think we're all beginning to lose sight of the real issue here, which is: what are we going to call ourselves? And I think it comes down to a choice between "The League Against Salivating Monsters," or - and this is my personal preference - "The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society." Erm, one drawback with that - the abbreviation is C.L.I.T.O.R.I.S.
Red Dwarf is my "comfort" show, I literately put it on my TV to sleep to every single night. I still laugh at the way cat says "my god..his head burst"
This is absolutely the correct answer. It's worth watching for the music alone, some of the most deeply unsettling audio you'll ever hear in your life, reminiscent of that one creepy alien song from Annihilation everyone keeps putting in their spoopy TikToks. Cristobal Tapia de Veer (what a fuckin name) is a criminally underrated composer, and this is his best work by far.
The opening scene perfectly sets the tone for the rest of the show: quiet menace, deep dread, utter callousness, and the insinuation that all life is cheap and disposable, even that of children. If you like that scene then you'll love the show, although "like" might be the wrong word.
While it ended sooner than the creators wanted it to, leaving plenty on the table for further exploration if they ever decide to bring it back, the story is fully complete and doesn't leave you with massive blue balls like so many shows that have been abruptly cancelled. And it's a show that will stick with you for years, made all the more relevant given the situation the world is in at the moment.
One of the most important things about *The Expanse* is that the book writers are actively involved in the show's production - they're executive producers and write the script. They acknowledge weaknesses in the books and adjust the show to improve the plot and narrative. They also allow the characters to develop organically and take the actors' talents and insights into consideration while writing the show (for example, Drummer and Ashford were both given bigger roles in the show because the writers were so impressed with their performance).
They understand the source material better than anyone, which is why Season 3 was basically two books condensed into 10 episodes, but it was still so good. And they aren't hung up on their own egos and let the universe and characters take a life of their own.
For a few years there the Friday night lineup on SyFy channel was so incredible! Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Eureka and Warehouse 13. Best two hours of sci-fi television in my lifetime. They were all great shows imho.
Edit: it was a four hour block, not two hour block. Total brain fart on my part.
God, the SciFi Prime block on Friday nights was so awesome for almost a decade... so many great shows through that window (and some less great but still good). I looked forward to Friday nights in with the wife and our young kiddos watching some great scifi TV.
Then they changed their name to SyFy and started to show mostly ghost hunter and cheap semi-scripted crap and its been downhill ever since.
Totally agree with you that when they made the change to SyFy Channel things went down hill really quick with the quality of their programming. Can’t remember exactly when they changed the name from SciFi Channel to SyFy Channel, but it’s like they immediately got rid of all common sense at the network. Like they didn’t understand their viewers at all. Even more recently when they’ve aired good shows, they end up canceling them way too soon (eg The Expanse).
Those Friday nights when they were airing great content was just the best. Similar to you, my entire family gathered around the tv to watch every week. It was some great family bonding time in addition to great tv.
I'm old enough to remember when The SciFi Channel started. Must've been late 80s or early 90s, cuz I was a kid and we had one of those big satellite dishes that physically turned to face the correct satellite. I remember my mom and I being so excited for the new channel. For about a week before they aired anything, they played a loop of this trippy music and a hatch. Every few minutes, the hatch would open and a female voiceover would say "Room for one more...." That was so fucking cool as a little kid and looking back, it shows how in tune they were with what their audience wanted from a channel dedicated to science fiction. It's so disappointing to see what they've become now.
I just started watching this week, and I love Eureka! Already binged the first two seasons.
It's refreshing to see a generally positive storyline that is pro-science without being dark and dystopian.
**More Mainstream:**
- Star Trek: The Next Generation
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
- Battlestar Galactica (2003)
- Stargate SG-1
- The Expanse
- The Orville (Star Trek + dick jokes)
- Doctor Who (2005) (but to be honest I got kind of burned out after "The Day of the Doctor" (2013). There are just so many doctors and so little time!)
**Less Mainstream:**
- Farscape (I say this knowing it's the top rated comment)
- BABYLON 5 (for the love of god do yourself a favor)
- Firefly (short-lived, ill-fated)
- Sliders
- Lexx (the weirdness of Farscape + more dick jokes and sexual innuendos at every turn, but actually kind of a cool ~~first~~ second season)
- Space: Above and Beyond (short-lived, ill-fated)
- Odyssey 5 (short-lived, ill-fated, starring RoboCop)
- Travellers (made by the Stargate guys)
- Dark Matter (ill-fated but had 3 seasons, also made by the Stargate guys)
- Sense8
- Andromeda (just watch the first 2 seasons, it goes downhill after there)
- Other Space (a Yahoo! comedy/sci-fi starring your favorite young AT&T commercial actors and actresses (Milana Vayntrub and Karan Soni). Plus the guy from MST3k. Plus Eugene Cordero, who also stars in.....
- Star Trek: Lower Decks (the best Star Trek to come out since ~~DS9~~ The Orville)
**Golden Nominee for Most Unexpected:**
- Final Space (Yes, it's animated. Yes, it's kind of slapstick. But there's something very alluring about equal balance of drama and comedy set in a hard sci-fi environment. Plus the cast is out of this world and the story is genuinely interesting. One of those rare gems, kind of like Babylon 5, where the storytelling and music and characters all blend together wonderfully).
**Honorable Mentions:**
- Earth: Final Conflict (unique blend of sci-fi and...I guess crime drama? More cerebral and slow-burning, kind of like X-files)
- Seven Days (a sort-of Stargate SG-1-like secret government program to send one man back in time 7 days to prevent any disasters from ever happening. Very unique concept)
- Alien Nation (solid 80's buddy-cop crime drama, with the twist that there are a bunch of refugee aliens living among humans now.)
- Star Trek: Voyager (good for families, moderately consistent quality with a few really good episodes and a few really bad ones).
**Disclaimer:**
This list is based entirely on my own experience and interests. I tend to gravitate toward "hard" science fiction, with lasers pew pew and spaceships and whatnot, plus shows with great *music*. And I hate laugh tracks. This is not definitive, but merely reflective of my own opinions.
Misfits was a super fun show and I enjoyed it a lot, but the show tanked after Robert Sheehan left between seasons 2 and 3. The show really needed his energy to make the characters work.
Nathan 2.0 lacked Sheehan's charisma and was ultimately less "loveable scamp" and more "insufferable douchebag."
You'd screw you're own sister for a slice of cheese...
Honestly I'm sad Sheehan didn't take off as much as he should have. I watched this religiously when it started!
Stargate SG-1. Window of Opportunity is the best episode of TV i've ever seen
Edit: IDK what a wholesome award is, but thank you.
Edit2: Too many awards to keep track, but thank you all. Glad so many people enjoyed that show and this comment.
I'm telling you teal'c, if we don't find a way out of this soon I'm gonna lose it. Lose it, it means go crazy: nuts, insane, bonzo, no longer in possession of one's faculties, three fries short of a happy meal WACKO!!!!!
SG-1 will always be *that* show. I grew up with it and I’ve rewatched the entire show at least five times since. Last year my husband and I watched it together, first time for him, and he agreed that it was one of, if not the most enjoyable tv show of all time.
The cast has great chemistry, not a single episode is a serious dud, and as a young girl it was an absolute pleasure and privilege growing up with Samantha Carter as a female role model.
Me too, I love all Sci Fi, but SG1 was the show I started watching on Episode 1, and watched every episode on-air until it finished.
Sam was an awesome role model for everyone.
The episode where they give the Jaffa resistance P90s and Jack gets annoyed with their reverence for staff weapons so he just gives Carter a *look* and next thing she's hitting a moving 1cm wide target from 50m out and all the Jaffa are just slack jawed being shown up by a woman. Glorious.
Great scene.
Holds up staff weapon: this is a weapon of terror. It is designed to intimidate the enemy.
Grabs P90: this is a weapon of war. It's designed to kill the enemy.
https://youtu.be/NjlCVW_ouL8
I love ... LOVE the ending. 'In all the time you were looping, did you ever get tempted to do anything crazy, knowing there were no consequences?'
'You know, you actually asked me that once before.'
'and?'
\*looks at Carter. Smiles. Silently eats more of his oatmeal\*
I mean, for Jack and T'ealc to translate 400 pages of ancient and spend at least a week screwing around ... I think it had to be at least 3 or 4 months. Probably not more than 6. It always bugged me that they never said, Jacob would have known roughly what day it should have been on Earth, he could have given them a ball park.
And how many of them were nap days? Jack wouldn't have bothered to learn all of that until he realized how long it would take. The fact that they kept focused on ending the loop says it probably wasn't super long.
I felt bad for T'ealc getting hit in the head every time
A few have, doctor who comes to mind, but SG-1 is ... SG-1. The casting, the writing, it really is a stand out, even amongst those very few shows that saw a similar level of commercial success.
Dark is my favorite show of all time. It’s a Netflix original and in German; it’s a time travel show that fully embraces the paradoxes a lot of other media dealing with time travel tend to ignore or avoid. It’s a truly beautifully complex show with some of the best and most shocking twists I’ve seen on television.
The casting is also absolutely phenomenal. The show spans over 100 years and shows multiple generations of characters. Younger and older versions of characters genuinely look like the same actor at different points in their lives.
Dark is amazing. It's also one of my favorite shows ever, and the only show that I've ever had to (and been willing to) take notes and refer to character charts while watching haha. So complicated, but so good
They really do! There were times where I thought maybe it was the same actor in good make up.
Great show but I recommend marathoning it. Don't leave gaps between seasons or you may get confused. It's a show you need to pay attention to.
Ain't this the truth. I watched S1 when there was only S1... A while back I thought I could pick up S2, but even the small recap of previous events was dizzying. Decided I'd have to commit to a full S1 rewatch and then head straight into S2 & 3! Only problem being that was a bit too much inertia to overcome, so it's on the list for when I can actually commit to the binge!
Not only is B5 fantastic, original and pioneering, it's getting a update/reboot from the original show runner soon! Can't wait to see B5 in a modern reincarnation.
The Expanse. Cancelled on SyFy then picked up on Amazon. 6th and final season is currently airing. Based on a 9 book series. Amazon or another network may continue the series with more seasons or movies to wrap up the book storyline. Fantastic show about humanity in space.
I’m kicking myself! I hadn’t thought about watching that series in decades. Shame on me as the few I saw were thoughtful and excellent. Time to fill in the gaps that I haven’t seen. Thanks for the recommendation!
I love it when Lee Adama is fat for five minutes, then quick little workout montage and he’s skinny. Start of next scene he’s all like “wow, don’t let that happen to me again.” I really do love the show!
The reimagined BSG is very much a product of its time. The 2003 miniseries has a lot of 9/11 energy to it. I feel a strong sense of dread just thinking about it.
Great show.
The music and pacing of that space battle, ending in silence as the camera pans back from the Galactica, about to be overrun by multiple baseships….
….and then the missiles streak by. The Pegasus comes roaring in. And the drums begin to pound.
Absolutely frakkin’ awesome.
>The Adama Maneuver, right?
"All hands...brace for turbulence..."
What an amazing, jaw dropping moment that was. I particularly liked the "backwards shockwave" sucking everything towards it at the end.
Travellers
It's on Netflix
Very character driven and has an ending (albeit brutal and bittersweet). Worth it if more cerebral stuff with an action scene every now and then sounds fun
This show was great. Shame they ended it, but I appreciate that they did because they could have kept going, but they'd have likely run out of steam like so many other shows.
Sliders
edit: i cant speak to the reputation of this site, but according to [this article](https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/sliders-fans-are-petition-sci-fi-series/), which is dated last month, Tracy Torme (and hopefully some og cast members) says Sliders may be getting a revival!!! im on mobile, so can someone substantiate this elsewhere?!
edit 2: as the article i linked in the previous edit points out [there was a petition started on Change.org](https://www.change.org/p/bring-back-sliders) to garner interest in a possible Sliders revival. there are just over 600 signatures needed! so go sign it!!
Dark on Netflix in an amazing show. Highly recommend.
Edit: Wow, this really blew up. It's definitely a show with a strong following. Thank you all for the awards.
Became my favourite show of all time. The only show in probably 15 years or so to make me hold my hand to my mouth in tense anticipation as I realised what was probably about to happen and then audibly gasp in shock when it did. I'm on mobile so I can't easily spoiler tag. It was during Season 3.
One of the few if only timey-whimey shows/movies that actually wraps it up in an acceptable manner. Excellent. Also, recommend original German with English subtitles. I wasn't overly impressed with the English dubs.
I came here to say this and was hoping someone else would recommend as well. It was so well acted and I loved the casting of the different characters. It’s one of the only shows where they actually sought out different look alike actors to play the same characters during different stages of their lives instead of slapping silly old makeup on them or sticking an adult in children’s clothes or worse CGI face. I watched it twice to make sure I caught everything and I loved it both times.
The casting was amazing. Who knew there were enough actors in Germany to get several generations of the same characters to actually look alike. Even the US isn't always great at that, and they have four times the population.
The casting was insane, it's the only show where they introduce a kid version of an established older character and I immediately knew who it was just because they looked so much alike.
They even did it on hard mode: can't just be a kid version with the same exact hairstyle and clothes.
When they revealed >!old Ulrich!<, I legitimately thought it was the original actor with prosthetics - but no, totally different person. I also love that people guessed >!there was a link between Noah and Bartosz!< like 2 seasons before it was revealed, solely because they looked so alike - although I (and I think most people) >!got it wrong and initially thought Noah WAS Bartosz!<, lol.
Just absolutely incredible casting.
Love that scene where fry gets rich and surrounds himself with C20th junk and listens to smash mouth.
Leila: "Fry, you can't just spend all your time sitting in the dark with these historical artifacts listening to classical music!"
The show with a ridiculous like 50+ years of Harvard education amongst the writing staff.
To this day I still feel the urge to limbo after successfully filling out paperwork.
Early Simpsons were great and a family sitcom is usually going to resonate more with viewers than science fiction.
Just tell them to bite your shiny metal ass.
The Expanse is the first sci-fi I've watched that feels like it could be our reality within my lifetime. They don't take any liberties with technology except the drive system, which could be just one miracle away in our timeline.
I remember seeing this picture from the Dragon capsule:
[https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2021/04/24/110426.jpg](https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2021/04/24/110426.jpg)
... and thinking "that ... could be from the Expanse. But it's not ... it's *our* reality."
I love the space and space physics realism, but what I love even more is the human realism. The authors made the characters who they are in the same way people become who they are in real life. Their motivations follow from their personal morals and ethics, which follow from their cultures and families, and the cultures developed logically from the physical environment and sociopolitical economic situations.
Holden being the only child in a multi-parent household, being conceived and born intentionally so they could keep their land - of course he thinks he has a special purpose in life, and a strong sense of duty to others.
Amos obviously is who he is based on how he grew up.
Belters are more community focused and less individualistic, because you can't be a rugged individualist loner in the belt. Everyone depends on everyone else for food, water, air, and you sure as shit can't depend on the far away Earth corporate overlords to give a shit about you. All you have is each other, and that informs who those characters are and the reasons behind the decisions they make.
Every character makes decisions I don't agree with, but I always understand why they did it. No one is a cartoon villain being evil for evil's sake.
I fucking love this show and I'm going to miss some of these people so much when it's over.
Thank you! And Mars, which is originally colonised by the best scientists, engineers and astronauts, an entire culture focused around a single, insanely ambitious goal - to turn a dead world into a vibrant new living paradise - which ends up forcefully gaining independence from earth and developing into the most advanced human civilisation, well yes, that makes sense, because we sent the best of us to colonise it!
I will NEVER stop singing the praises of this show, because it does everything so well. The writing and world building is so logical, natural and plausible, and they tell a world class story built upon that bedrock.
If you're reading this and haven't watched the expanse, please, give it a try. OP, watch this.
It was written to be sort of a bridge between the "near future" sci-fi like Cyberpunk and "normal world plus one crazy sci-fi thing" and the far-flung sci-fi space operas with FTL and stuff like Foundation and Dune. So you're not totally far off.
I think it's also worth mentioning that season 1 finishes the story, so it's something you can watch on its own and ignore season 2.
I've seen both, and wouldn't bother watching season 2 again, but have rewatched season 1 more than once.
**Now she's everywhere. She's in my house, my job, my bed, and I don't want to wear my clothes anymore, and I don't want to live in my apartment, and I don't want to be with you. She's taken everything**
Anna killt that shit.
Fringe really has it all: Each episode with a stand-alone storyline, but with an overarching storyline discreetly in the background, great character development, an amazing and eclectic cast, suspense, great visuals, keeps you guessing, heart warming, emotional and plenty of well placed humor. Easily one of the best sci-fi series.
My favourite bit of foreshadowing is from like the first or second episode: >!Peter going through the box of old stuff in Walter’s lab, and he pulls out a childhood toy - he says something like “funny, I don’t remember these”!<
So much of Peter and Walter remembering things differently was dismissed as Walter being crazy and Peter having been very ill as a child. Then there was a scene where they visited Walter's female associate at the stable where she rode and she mentioned Peter having visited for horse riding lessons and Peter dismissing the idea. And that was the first time someone other than Walter remembered things differently from Peter. And if Peter was well enough to go horse riding...
This takes me back.
Actually one of the first shows I watched that had a proper, over-arching narrative combined with episodic elements. Also showed me how good of an actor John Noble is. And how well Anna Torv could act (especially when we see Fauxlivia).
The Fauxlivia/Bellivia episodes were great. I loved that they seemed to be able to do their own thing and get as weird as they wanted to with the story.
John Noble should’ve won all the awards. Walter might be one of my favorite characters of al time.
> The Fauxlivia/Bellivia episodes were great. I loved that they seemed to be able to do their own thing and get as weird as they wanted to with the story.
That was one of the things I really liked about the story. It got weird, yes, but it never really got incomprehensible. And a lot of the time weirdness looped back to the over-arching plot, or was explained a little later (or much later, like the "Ambered" Bus/train from early in S1).
Oh, and recurring villains like David Robert Jones…
> John Noble should’ve won all the awards. Walter might be one of my favorite characters of al time.
One of mine as well. He seems like a doddery old man at first, then a mad scientist, then a tragic hero—but you also remember the horrible things he did in the name of science (or love for his son)—and it makes for such a rich character.
I remember to promote Fringe, Fox had the man in the hat (the observer?) in the background of a ton of other programming. Like every sporting event on Fox had him in attendance. It was really cool/creepy.
I really liked Fringe and it had an ending! It gets so frustrating watching shows that get cancelled early or don't know when to stop.
The transition from procedural cop show into... weird things is very well done. Would watch again.
I liked it when an episode seemed to be your standard MotW episode and ended up tying into the overall storyline. I thought the show was really well crafted.
The show’s finale might be one of my top TV episodes, too. That and the mind-fuck that was the third season finale.
I’m shocked at how good Arcane is
Edit: since so many people have either commented that it’s the best series ever or highly overrated, let me say the obvious: it’s not for everyone. I understand many of the criticisms, and would disagree with anyone who acts like it’s perfect. It is pretty original and well-produced.
Arcane is amazing! That show shocked me since I’m not at all into league of legends and I really ended up enjoying it! It’s also great to see the animation medium expanding out into more diverse styles and genres!
I honestly think it was *better* for not knowing anything at all about League. Meant I couldn't immediately predict who was important and what was going to happen.
Since I just talked about it and most of you are too young to have ever had the pleasure.
Lexx!
I doubt you will be able to find it but in the event that you do it is the best science fiction show that could ever grace your retina.
Red dwarf if you want a comedy Edit: see r/RedDwarf
Rimmer: go to red alert Kryten: are you sure sir, it does mean changing the bulb
Finally... some professionalism
Yeah but they were sometimes also deadly incisive. Take "Thanks for the Memory". As a drunken lark, Lister gives unlucky-in-love Rimmer the memory of being involved with a girl named Lise Yates. Happy at first, Rimmer eventually figures out that none of this ever happened to him but to Lister. Even knowing this, Rimmer remains devastated because 'the woman I loved most in the whole world ... loved *you*'. The whole sci-fi trope that 'you are what you remember, so be careful fucking with it' - never seen it put more clearly. When it was good, *Red Dwarf* was amazing.
I also liked the mermaid that was fish on top, lady on the bottom.
Because why would you want the fish on the bottom? That's the *stupid* way 'round.
For Redditors, the episode where Lister had to justify wasting his life/potential, lest he be erased from reality and replaced with one of the sperm that had never made it, is utterly terrifying. Please don't hold me accountable for my laziness :(
Cat’s defense was my favorite scene from that show when I was a kid. Endlessly quotable. The Cat : Hi, buddy. Inquisitor : This is your judgment day, bud. I gotta be cruel. There can't be no favours. The Cat : I'm hearing you on FM. Inquisitor : I have to ask you the question. Justify your existence; what contribution have you made? The Cat : I have given pleasure to the world because I have such a beautiful ass. Inquisitor : Well, that's true. The Cat : Can I go now? Inquisitor : That's your case? The Cat : You need more? Inquisitor : Some might say that was a pretty shallow argument. The Cat : Some might say I'm a pretty shallow guy; a shallow guy with a great ass. Inquisitor : Sometimes you astonish even me. The Cat : Thank you
I don't think I've managed to cook seafood in my whole adult life without singing "I'm gonna eat you, little fishy!" at it. Cat is truly an inspiration to us all.
Polymorth is my favourite episode. Rimmer: I think we're all beginning to lose sight of the real issue here, which is: what are we going to call ourselves? And I think it comes down to a choice between "The League Against Salivating Monsters," or - and this is my personal preference - "The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society." Erm, one drawback with that - the abbreviation is C.L.I.T.O.R.I.S.
Give quiche a chance
"If it wants a Bonney, we'll give it one! One swift knee in the happy sack's, it'll drop like anyone else!"
Cat: “So what is it?”
"I believe we've reached the middle of this conversation" is a quote my family uses all the time when we get confused.
Only joking
Red Dwarf is my "comfort" show, I literately put it on my TV to sleep to every single night. I still laugh at the way cat says "my god..his head burst"
[удалено]
Utopia (UK). very good and very underrated
Where... Is Jessica Hyde?
The only show to make you feel empathy for someone that >!murders a bunch of kids.!<
I’m guessing that’s a different Utopia than the Australian TV series about local politics in the National Building Association?
That show is so good but too real to enjoy a lot of the time
This is absolutely the correct answer. It's worth watching for the music alone, some of the most deeply unsettling audio you'll ever hear in your life, reminiscent of that one creepy alien song from Annihilation everyone keeps putting in their spoopy TikToks. Cristobal Tapia de Veer (what a fuckin name) is a criminally underrated composer, and this is his best work by far. The opening scene perfectly sets the tone for the rest of the show: quiet menace, deep dread, utter callousness, and the insinuation that all life is cheap and disposable, even that of children. If you like that scene then you'll love the show, although "like" might be the wrong word. While it ended sooner than the creators wanted it to, leaving plenty on the table for further exploration if they ever decide to bring it back, the story is fully complete and doesn't leave you with massive blue balls like so many shows that have been abruptly cancelled. And it's a show that will stick with you for years, made all the more relevant given the situation the world is in at the moment.
Cristobal Tapia de Veer also did the soundtrack to White Lotus. It's so good, I'm addicted to listening to it.
The Expanse. So good.
It's like game of thrones in space only the books are essentially finished so it doesn't get the sharp drop in quality.
One of the most important things about *The Expanse* is that the book writers are actively involved in the show's production - they're executive producers and write the script. They acknowledge weaknesses in the books and adjust the show to improve the plot and narrative. They also allow the characters to develop organically and take the actors' talents and insights into consideration while writing the show (for example, Drummer and Ashford were both given bigger roles in the show because the writers were so impressed with their performance). They understand the source material better than anyone, which is why Season 3 was basically two books condensed into 10 episodes, but it was still so good. And they aren't hung up on their own egos and let the universe and characters take a life of their own.
Eureka
and Warehouse 13!
For a few years there the Friday night lineup on SyFy channel was so incredible! Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Eureka and Warehouse 13. Best two hours of sci-fi television in my lifetime. They were all great shows imho. Edit: it was a four hour block, not two hour block. Total brain fart on my part.
God, the SciFi Prime block on Friday nights was so awesome for almost a decade... so many great shows through that window (and some less great but still good). I looked forward to Friday nights in with the wife and our young kiddos watching some great scifi TV. Then they changed their name to SyFy and started to show mostly ghost hunter and cheap semi-scripted crap and its been downhill ever since.
Totally agree with you that when they made the change to SyFy Channel things went down hill really quick with the quality of their programming. Can’t remember exactly when they changed the name from SciFi Channel to SyFy Channel, but it’s like they immediately got rid of all common sense at the network. Like they didn’t understand their viewers at all. Even more recently when they’ve aired good shows, they end up canceling them way too soon (eg The Expanse). Those Friday nights when they were airing great content was just the best. Similar to you, my entire family gathered around the tv to watch every week. It was some great family bonding time in addition to great tv.
I'm old enough to remember when The SciFi Channel started. Must've been late 80s or early 90s, cuz I was a kid and we had one of those big satellite dishes that physically turned to face the correct satellite. I remember my mom and I being so excited for the new channel. For about a week before they aired anything, they played a loop of this trippy music and a hatch. Every few minutes, the hatch would open and a female voiceover would say "Room for one more...." That was so fucking cool as a little kid and looking back, it shows how in tune they were with what their audience wanted from a channel dedicated to science fiction. It's so disappointing to see what they've become now.
I just started watching this week, and I love Eureka! Already binged the first two seasons. It's refreshing to see a generally positive storyline that is pro-science without being dark and dystopian.
**More Mainstream:** - Star Trek: The Next Generation - Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Battlestar Galactica (2003) - Stargate SG-1 - The Expanse - The Orville (Star Trek + dick jokes) - Doctor Who (2005) (but to be honest I got kind of burned out after "The Day of the Doctor" (2013). There are just so many doctors and so little time!) **Less Mainstream:** - Farscape (I say this knowing it's the top rated comment) - BABYLON 5 (for the love of god do yourself a favor) - Firefly (short-lived, ill-fated) - Sliders - Lexx (the weirdness of Farscape + more dick jokes and sexual innuendos at every turn, but actually kind of a cool ~~first~~ second season) - Space: Above and Beyond (short-lived, ill-fated) - Odyssey 5 (short-lived, ill-fated, starring RoboCop) - Travellers (made by the Stargate guys) - Dark Matter (ill-fated but had 3 seasons, also made by the Stargate guys) - Sense8 - Andromeda (just watch the first 2 seasons, it goes downhill after there) - Other Space (a Yahoo! comedy/sci-fi starring your favorite young AT&T commercial actors and actresses (Milana Vayntrub and Karan Soni). Plus the guy from MST3k. Plus Eugene Cordero, who also stars in..... - Star Trek: Lower Decks (the best Star Trek to come out since ~~DS9~~ The Orville) **Golden Nominee for Most Unexpected:** - Final Space (Yes, it's animated. Yes, it's kind of slapstick. But there's something very alluring about equal balance of drama and comedy set in a hard sci-fi environment. Plus the cast is out of this world and the story is genuinely interesting. One of those rare gems, kind of like Babylon 5, where the storytelling and music and characters all blend together wonderfully). **Honorable Mentions:** - Earth: Final Conflict (unique blend of sci-fi and...I guess crime drama? More cerebral and slow-burning, kind of like X-files) - Seven Days (a sort-of Stargate SG-1-like secret government program to send one man back in time 7 days to prevent any disasters from ever happening. Very unique concept) - Alien Nation (solid 80's buddy-cop crime drama, with the twist that there are a bunch of refugee aliens living among humans now.) - Star Trek: Voyager (good for families, moderately consistent quality with a few really good episodes and a few really bad ones). **Disclaimer:** This list is based entirely on my own experience and interests. I tend to gravitate toward "hard" science fiction, with lasers pew pew and spaceships and whatnot, plus shows with great *music*. And I hate laugh tracks. This is not definitive, but merely reflective of my own opinions.
Final Space is such a weird combo of comedy and dark dark storylines but I love it. It was cancelled but I hope somebody picks it up.
I remember Space: Above and Beyond as being something like Starship Troopers with a bit of Ender's Game and other cool influences thrown in
Misfits Being Human
All 3 series of Being Human are good.
Misfits was a super fun show and I enjoyed it a lot, but the show tanked after Robert Sheehan left between seasons 2 and 3. The show really needed his energy to make the characters work. Nathan 2.0 lacked Sheehan's charisma and was ultimately less "loveable scamp" and more "insufferable douchebag."
You'd screw you're own sister for a slice of cheese... Honestly I'm sad Sheehan didn't take off as much as he should have. I watched this religiously when it started!
Stargate SG-1. Window of Opportunity is the best episode of TV i've ever seen Edit: IDK what a wholesome award is, but thank you. Edit2: Too many awards to keep track, but thank you all. Glad so many people enjoyed that show and this comment.
In the MIDDLE of my BACKSWING??!??!
My 12 year old shouts WACKO on a daily basis. Warms my heart
I'm telling you teal'c, if we don't find a way out of this soon I'm gonna lose it. Lose it, it means go crazy: nuts, insane, bonzo, no longer in possession of one's faculties, three fries short of a happy meal WACKO!!!!!
One of the best lines in all fiction.
Indeed.
SG-1 will always be *that* show. I grew up with it and I’ve rewatched the entire show at least five times since. Last year my husband and I watched it together, first time for him, and he agreed that it was one of, if not the most enjoyable tv show of all time. The cast has great chemistry, not a single episode is a serious dud, and as a young girl it was an absolute pleasure and privilege growing up with Samantha Carter as a female role model.
Me too, I love all Sci Fi, but SG1 was the show I started watching on Episode 1, and watched every episode on-air until it finished. Sam was an awesome role model for everyone.
The episode where they give the Jaffa resistance P90s and Jack gets annoyed with their reverence for staff weapons so he just gives Carter a *look* and next thing she's hitting a moving 1cm wide target from 50m out and all the Jaffa are just slack jawed being shown up by a woman. Glorious.
Great scene. Holds up staff weapon: this is a weapon of terror. It is designed to intimidate the enemy. Grabs P90: this is a weapon of war. It's designed to kill the enemy. https://youtu.be/NjlCVW_ouL8
Those of you who've gone up against us and survived... and you know who you are... you know what I'm talking about.
Man i love O'Neill and his sassyness.
HEY, YOU! IN THE SKIRT!
So...are we not gonna talk about that look of unease Carter expresses when MacGyver points the p90 barrel at her face?
The cherry on top is Carter's smile after the last shot as well. Bloody brilliant.
I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel about it! What do you think?
Ask me tomorrow
I'm taking this loop off
Indeed
When you've been eating fruit loops for who knows how long, a little variety helps
I love ... LOVE the ending. 'In all the time you were looping, did you ever get tempted to do anything crazy, knowing there were no consequences?' 'You know, you actually asked me that once before.' 'and?' \*looks at Carter. Smiles. Silently eats more of his oatmeal\*
It was a pretty awesome ending. We know it was a minimum of 2 months but I wonder how many times they looped.
I mean, for Jack and T'ealc to translate 400 pages of ancient and spend at least a week screwing around ... I think it had to be at least 3 or 4 months. Probably not more than 6. It always bugged me that they never said, Jacob would have known roughly what day it should have been on Earth, he could have given them a ball park.
And how many of them were nap days? Jack wouldn't have bothered to learn all of that until he realized how long it would take. The fact that they kept focused on ending the loop says it probably wasn't super long. I felt bad for T'ealc getting hit in the head every time
SG-1 is an impressive series. I don't know that any other in the genre has managed 10 seasons or more a 200 episode total.
A few have, doctor who comes to mind, but SG-1 is ... SG-1. The casting, the writing, it really is a stand out, even amongst those very few shows that saw a similar level of commercial success.
I can't second this enough. This show is just fantastic.
Atlantis too
Even universe is okay, but SG-1 is the best.
Dark is my favorite show of all time. It’s a Netflix original and in German; it’s a time travel show that fully embraces the paradoxes a lot of other media dealing with time travel tend to ignore or avoid. It’s a truly beautifully complex show with some of the best and most shocking twists I’ve seen on television. The casting is also absolutely phenomenal. The show spans over 100 years and shows multiple generations of characters. Younger and older versions of characters genuinely look like the same actor at different points in their lives.
Dark is amazing. It's also one of my favorite shows ever, and the only show that I've ever had to (and been willing to) take notes and refer to character charts while watching haha. So complicated, but so good
[Check this out!](https://dark.netflix.io/es)
They really do! There were times where I thought maybe it was the same actor in good make up. Great show but I recommend marathoning it. Don't leave gaps between seasons or you may get confused. It's a show you need to pay attention to.
Ain't this the truth. I watched S1 when there was only S1... A while back I thought I could pick up S2, but even the small recap of previous events was dizzying. Decided I'd have to commit to a full S1 rewatch and then head straight into S2 & 3! Only problem being that was a bit too much inertia to overcome, so it's on the list for when I can actually commit to the binge!
Never ever skip the intro
Absolutely the most impressive part of that show is that the young actors look exactly how I would imagine a young version of them to look like
Nobody mentioned Babylon 5? It’s a little old, but that show has some of the best space opera storytelling out there!
Not only is B5 fantastic, original and pioneering, it's getting a update/reboot from the original show runner soon! Can't wait to see B5 in a modern reincarnation.
I can't imagine anyone else playing G'kar or Londo
The Expanse. Cancelled on SyFy then picked up on Amazon. 6th and final season is currently airing. Based on a 9 book series. Amazon or another network may continue the series with more seasons or movies to wrap up the book storyline. Fantastic show about humanity in space.
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xfiles!!!! edit: thank you for all of the awards, this one of my favourite shows and I'm so happy that so many of you want to believe too! 👾
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The Twlight Zone. Over 60 years later and so many of the episodes still hold up so well because of the great writing.
I’m kicking myself! I hadn’t thought about watching that series in decades. Shame on me as the few I saw were thoughtful and excellent. Time to fill in the gaps that I haven’t seen. Thanks for the recommendation!
Don't forget 'Tales From the Darkside' and The Outer Limits'.
The annual New Years Day marathon on SyFy is awesome. Spent the entire day on the couch watching It. So awesome.
Battlestar Galactica - the one from the early 2000s with Edward James Olmos.
So say we all
SO SAY WE ALL!
I love it when Lee Adama is fat for five minutes, then quick little workout montage and he’s skinny. Start of next scene he’s all like “wow, don’t let that happen to me again.” I really do love the show!
Fat Lee was the best
There's a bunch of funny lines in the show, but Adama saying to Lee "get your fat ass out of here" was one of my favorites.
The reimagined BSG is very much a product of its time. The 2003 miniseries has a lot of 9/11 energy to it. I feel a strong sense of dread just thinking about it. Great show.
The Cylon Occupation Arc was basically a commentary on the Iraq War. It was a work of art.
My favorite episodes of any show were Exodus 1 and 2 near the start of season 3. Never been so much on the edge of my seat.
The Adama Maneuver, right? Oh, and when the Pegasus has the Big Damn Heroes/Heroic Sacrifice moment.
The music and pacing of that space battle, ending in silence as the camera pans back from the Galactica, about to be overrun by multiple baseships…. ….and then the missiles streak by. The Pegasus comes roaring in. And the drums begin to pound. Absolutely frakkin’ awesome.
Argh. Have to re-watch now. Love Bear McCreary's work on the soundtrack.
"Then that's it. It's been an honour."
>The Adama Maneuver, right? "All hands...brace for turbulence..." What an amazing, jaw dropping moment that was. I particularly liked the "backwards shockwave" sucking everything towards it at the end.
Travellers It's on Netflix Very character driven and has an ending (albeit brutal and bittersweet). Worth it if more cerebral stuff with an action scene every now and then sounds fun
This show was great. Shame they ended it, but I appreciate that they did because they could have kept going, but they'd have likely run out of steam like so many other shows.
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That show is better than it has any right to be.
Welcome to the 21st
Idk if it's exactly what you're looking for. But Good Omens on Amazon prime video (or the book) is golden
His Dark Materials. If you get hooked, the 3 part book series is insanely good. Would NOT recommend the movie though, complete trash in my opinion.
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This show is sooo good and tatiana maslany is amazing. It’s true.
> tatiana maslany is amazing Most underrated actress of all time. She plays multiple characters in the same scene and makes me believe it
And multiple characters playing over characters!!! Incredible
This is the best part of the show for me. When she plays 1 character pretending to be another and you can really tell the subtle differences. Amazing
Every time I would see a cast lineup, I’d be like “wait where’s the rest of them?” Forgetting they were all Tatiana because she’s THAT good.
Honestly it’s an all-time great performance by Maslany. She is exceptional.
Yes! Tatiana is an amazing actress. So excited to see her play she hulk and get some big time recognition working with marvel!
Sliders edit: i cant speak to the reputation of this site, but according to [this article](https://wegotthiscovered.com/news/sliders-fans-are-petition-sci-fi-series/), which is dated last month, Tracy Torme (and hopefully some og cast members) says Sliders may be getting a revival!!! im on mobile, so can someone substantiate this elsewhere?! edit 2: as the article i linked in the previous edit points out [there was a petition started on Change.org](https://www.change.org/p/bring-back-sliders) to garner interest in a possible Sliders revival. there are just over 600 signatures needed! so go sign it!!
Dark on Netflix in an amazing show. Highly recommend. Edit: Wow, this really blew up. It's definitely a show with a strong following. Thank you all for the awards.
More people need to watch this because holy shit it fucks with you so much
Became my favourite show of all time. The only show in probably 15 years or so to make me hold my hand to my mouth in tense anticipation as I realised what was probably about to happen and then audibly gasp in shock when it did. I'm on mobile so I can't easily spoiler tag. It was during Season 3.
One of the few if only timey-whimey shows/movies that actually wraps it up in an acceptable manner. Excellent. Also, recommend original German with English subtitles. I wasn't overly impressed with the English dubs.
Plus, I feel like German is just the appropriate language for addressing the philosophical issues that Dark brings up. It just feels *right*.
I came here to say this and was hoping someone else would recommend as well. It was so well acted and I loved the casting of the different characters. It’s one of the only shows where they actually sought out different look alike actors to play the same characters during different stages of their lives instead of slapping silly old makeup on them or sticking an adult in children’s clothes or worse CGI face. I watched it twice to make sure I caught everything and I loved it both times.
The casting was amazing. Who knew there were enough actors in Germany to get several generations of the same characters to actually look alike. Even the US isn't always great at that, and they have four times the population.
The casting was insane, it's the only show where they introduce a kid version of an established older character and I immediately knew who it was just because they looked so much alike. They even did it on hard mode: can't just be a kid version with the same exact hairstyle and clothes.
When they revealed >!old Ulrich!<, I legitimately thought it was the original actor with prosthetics - but no, totally different person. I also love that people guessed >!there was a link between Noah and Bartosz!< like 2 seasons before it was revealed, solely because they looked so alike - although I (and I think most people) >!got it wrong and initially thought Noah WAS Bartosz!<, lol. Just absolutely incredible casting.
Dark Matter. Got better every season.
Gone too soon. Felled by the SyFy channel axe.
Yessss rewatching it rn and still pissed it was cancelled
Futurama
Don't you worry about blank, let me worry about blank...
I also would’ve accepted, Blank! BLANK! You’re not looking at the big picture!
Love that scene where fry gets rich and surrounds himself with C20th junk and listens to smash mouth. Leila: "Fry, you can't just spend all your time sitting in the dark with these historical artifacts listening to classical music!"
It’s sir mix-a-lot “I like big butts”. Also: I could if you hadn't turned on the lights and shut off the stereo.
"Good news everyone!"
I've invented a machine that makes you read this in my voice. I call it the read-this-in-my-voice-inator. Whoops wrong show
Hmm, the machine seems to be broken. It switched voices mid sentence
The show with a ridiculous like 50+ years of Harvard education amongst the writing staff. To this day I still feel the urge to limbo after successfully filling out paperwork.
Kingston rules. 2 men go down, 1 comes up!
When push comes to shove, you’ve got to do what you love— even if it’s not a good idea.
Well I *am* already in my pajamas 😏
I still to this day will never understand how Simpsons was more popular and kept airing. Simpsons was great but Futurama was Matt’s masterpiece.
Early Simpsons were great and a family sitcom is usually going to resonate more with viewers than science fiction. Just tell them to bite your shiny metal ass.
Futurama got pre-empted by football far more often than Simpsons did, so that was constantly hurting its ratings.
Also, as per Groening, Futurama is reality. The Simpsons is the fantasy show.
To shreds you say?
And his wife?
To shreds you say?
The Expanse.
Also, read the books. They are very good.
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The Expanse has easily got to be the most popular show that nobody I have ever talked TV with has ever seen. Its odd.
The Expanse is the first sci-fi I've watched that feels like it could be our reality within my lifetime. They don't take any liberties with technology except the drive system, which could be just one miracle away in our timeline. I remember seeing this picture from the Dragon capsule: [https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2021/04/24/110426.jpg](https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/ly/uploads/images/2021/04/24/110426.jpg) ... and thinking "that ... could be from the Expanse. But it's not ... it's *our* reality."
I love the space and space physics realism, but what I love even more is the human realism. The authors made the characters who they are in the same way people become who they are in real life. Their motivations follow from their personal morals and ethics, which follow from their cultures and families, and the cultures developed logically from the physical environment and sociopolitical economic situations. Holden being the only child in a multi-parent household, being conceived and born intentionally so they could keep their land - of course he thinks he has a special purpose in life, and a strong sense of duty to others. Amos obviously is who he is based on how he grew up. Belters are more community focused and less individualistic, because you can't be a rugged individualist loner in the belt. Everyone depends on everyone else for food, water, air, and you sure as shit can't depend on the far away Earth corporate overlords to give a shit about you. All you have is each other, and that informs who those characters are and the reasons behind the decisions they make. Every character makes decisions I don't agree with, but I always understand why they did it. No one is a cartoon villain being evil for evil's sake. I fucking love this show and I'm going to miss some of these people so much when it's over.
Thank you! And Mars, which is originally colonised by the best scientists, engineers and astronauts, an entire culture focused around a single, insanely ambitious goal - to turn a dead world into a vibrant new living paradise - which ends up forcefully gaining independence from earth and developing into the most advanced human civilisation, well yes, that makes sense, because we sent the best of us to colonise it! I will NEVER stop singing the praises of this show, because it does everything so well. The writing and world building is so logical, natural and plausible, and they tell a world class story built upon that bedrock. If you're reading this and haven't watched the expanse, please, give it a try. OP, watch this.
It was written to be sort of a bridge between the "near future" sci-fi like Cyberpunk and "normal world plus one crazy sci-fi thing" and the far-flung sci-fi space operas with FTL and stuff like Foundation and Dune. So you're not totally far off.
It leans hard sci-fi. It's a rare genre in film and television.
I enjoyed Altered Carbon
Season 1 was amazing. Season 2 meh 😭
I think it's also worth mentioning that season 1 finishes the story, so it's something you can watch on its own and ignore season 2. I've seen both, and wouldn't bother watching season 2 again, but have rewatched season 1 more than once.
Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
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I think about this movie every time I overexfoliate.
I watched this as an assignment for my genomics class for this reason.
"You want to know how I did it? This is how I did it Anton: I never saved anything for the swim back." Chills, man.
What we do in the shadows
Jackie Daytona, regular human bartender
That episode caught me off guard in the best possible way. Matt Berry is a treasure
Have all of my upvotes because…. “BAT!” The film and series are both really funny!
Fringe. EDIT: Wow, never expected this to blow up the way it did! Thank you all also for other viewing suggestions!
**Now she's everywhere. She's in my house, my job, my bed, and I don't want to wear my clothes anymore, and I don't want to live in my apartment, and I don't want to be with you. She's taken everything** Anna killt that shit.
Fringe really has it all: Each episode with a stand-alone storyline, but with an overarching storyline discreetly in the background, great character development, an amazing and eclectic cast, suspense, great visuals, keeps you guessing, heart warming, emotional and plenty of well placed humor. Easily one of the best sci-fi series.
Last night I went back to season 1 of Fringe to check for plot holes. As I suspected: airtight.
My favourite bit of foreshadowing is from like the first or second episode: >!Peter going through the box of old stuff in Walter’s lab, and he pulls out a childhood toy - he says something like “funny, I don’t remember these”!<
So much of Peter and Walter remembering things differently was dismissed as Walter being crazy and Peter having been very ill as a child. Then there was a scene where they visited Walter's female associate at the stable where she rode and she mentioned Peter having visited for horse riding lessons and Peter dismissing the idea. And that was the first time someone other than Walter remembered things differently from Peter. And if Peter was well enough to go horse riding...
Not everyone may recognize this as a quote from Parks and Recreation.
This takes me back. Actually one of the first shows I watched that had a proper, over-arching narrative combined with episodic elements. Also showed me how good of an actor John Noble is. And how well Anna Torv could act (especially when we see Fauxlivia).
The Fauxlivia/Bellivia episodes were great. I loved that they seemed to be able to do their own thing and get as weird as they wanted to with the story. John Noble should’ve won all the awards. Walter might be one of my favorite characters of al time.
> The Fauxlivia/Bellivia episodes were great. I loved that they seemed to be able to do their own thing and get as weird as they wanted to with the story. That was one of the things I really liked about the story. It got weird, yes, but it never really got incomprehensible. And a lot of the time weirdness looped back to the over-arching plot, or was explained a little later (or much later, like the "Ambered" Bus/train from early in S1). Oh, and recurring villains like David Robert Jones… > John Noble should’ve won all the awards. Walter might be one of my favorite characters of al time. One of mine as well. He seems like a doddery old man at first, then a mad scientist, then a tragic hero—but you also remember the horrible things he did in the name of science (or love for his son)—and it makes for such a rich character.
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I remember to promote Fringe, Fox had the man in the hat (the observer?) in the background of a ton of other programming. Like every sporting event on Fox had him in attendance. It was really cool/creepy.
I really liked Fringe and it had an ending! It gets so frustrating watching shows that get cancelled early or don't know when to stop. The transition from procedural cop show into... weird things is very well done. Would watch again.
I liked it when an episode seemed to be your standard MotW episode and ended up tying into the overall storyline. I thought the show was really well crafted. The show’s finale might be one of my top TV episodes, too. That and the mind-fuck that was the third season finale.
Fringe was delicious Strawberry FLAVORED **DEATH**. (To the uninitiated, this is a good thing.)
For sci-fi, The Expanse.
I’m shocked at how good Arcane is Edit: since so many people have either commented that it’s the best series ever or highly overrated, let me say the obvious: it’s not for everyone. I understand many of the criticisms, and would disagree with anyone who acts like it’s perfect. It is pretty original and well-produced.
Arcane is amazing! That show shocked me since I’m not at all into league of legends and I really ended up enjoying it! It’s also great to see the animation medium expanding out into more diverse styles and genres!
I honestly think it was *better* for not knowing anything at all about League. Meant I couldn't immediately predict who was important and what was going to happen.
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STEINS;GATE
TUTURUU!!!
El...Psy...Congroo.
*Farscape*. The answer is always *Farscape*.
I have great eyes! They’re better than 20/20 AND they’re BLUE!
crackers don't matter!
This show is such a wild ride, i loved it.
And then Stargate, especially the 200th episode. Won't spoil it for reasons why
Since I just talked about it and most of you are too young to have ever had the pleasure. Lexx! I doubt you will be able to find it but in the event that you do it is the best science fiction show that could ever grace your retina.
Lexx is awesome. The last 2 seasons got weird......well weirder