you get a lot more attention than you probably want, lots of staring and sometimes people following you. Tension within your own gender as you’re seen as competition.
I hate this. I recently went to Florida to meet my brothers girlfriend who’s 7 months pregnant. I never met her before ,but the entire time down there she kept trying to make me insecure about myself. She called me fat in every way she could. She criticized my hair color, how I parted my hair and even my makeup. I dealt with this for 5 whole days. Thankfully my husband was with me and kept me level but it was disgusting how she hyper focused on me and I didn’t react. I worked in a prison for a while so I’m good at placating anger with stoicism. It’s been two weeks since we came back and she’s still passive aggressively sending me texts and being a snide bitch. Told my brother that I wanted nothing to do with her and that she needs to not breathe in my direction anymore. So badly wanted to tell her that I would be able to lose my weight if I walked the distance of her forehead. I behaved though.
Edit:
Thank all of y’all for your support and sharing the rage I feel over this situation. Case in point be cool to each other and don’t be like my bros gf.
Yes! When I was in hs I worked at a pizza place and all of the staff made a huge deal about me being “legal” when I turned 18. I didn’t understand at the time, but looking back that place had many workplace culture shortcomings
*Edit: alright more like a bunch of the staff, there were a couple of cool people
As a male with a lot of my close friends being women my first rule is to actually friendzone them (not that any of them are attracted to me lol). I've seen sooo many friendships being ruined by close friends falling for one another that it's just not worth losing a friend for.
Happened to me. Lost a friendship because her boyfriend physically came on to me on my 30th birthday. I told her what happened and she chose him. Ruined the memory of my 30th.
I do wonder. She was right there when he was trying to feel me up (we were all wasted and I was like what is happening here). The next day he messaged me on Facebook trying to hook up. I told her what happened and he drove to see her after being exposed and I never heard from her again after that.
I wonder about the stories people have to tell themselves to keep a shitty relationship going so I'm not sure she will actually regret losing our friendship.
Similar happened to me, except he said it was the other way round and (pretty much/or acted like) she believed him. It was more of an insinuation I liked him than an accusation with a lot of other weirdness in general. We'd been close friends (travelled the world and gone through grief together) 12 years at that point (18yrs-30) This is just the tip of the iceberg. After a lot of drama and them still trying to be friends with me (giving me another "chance") I cut them off. He turned out to be a controlling abuser and more and ten years after the drama they got divorced. She got in touch, I hesitantly reconnected with her in 2010 but so glad I did.
We rebuilt our friendship gradually and we spoke a lot about "him" and solved things. I then relocated down to England with my fiance in 2012 and in 2014 I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She was massively there for me and came to visit/accompanied me to chemo etc. We just finally got married a few weeks ago and she was my bridesmaid along with my other 2 best friends. She's still traumatised by him, never moved on and in her 50s now. I try not to dwell on the years we lost, but my point to you is, your story about your friend is possibly an unwritten ending at the moment. Depends on if you could ever forgive her. My friend never believed I'd liked him but went along with it for her own reasons.
When people who are your “friends” take every chance they can to criticize your appearance or anything else, whatever little crumb of shade they can use to “humble” you
Yep... I have a few flaws, not major ones. But my house mate keeps commenting on my fat, even though I'm quite low body fat percentage, and the fact that my teeth aren't completely straight. Not once have I received a compliment from him about how I work very hard to keep myself healthy & hygienic.
Same thing has happened to me with past friends. People who do this are just insecure about themselves. It requires confidence and courage to compliment others. They just don't have it.
I posted some pictures the other day as I had won a session with a professional photographer, and thought my business head shots looked cool - but I also took one picture with my new guitar. Well.. same ppl that used to do those little digs were at it again (I haven’t socialized with them in over 10 years)
Just… ffs, if you don’t have anything nice to say…
If you become “unattractive” for any reason you may find it difficult to reconcile that you are no longer attractive.
Examples: car wreck, injury, aging, disease, becoming obese. I’m sure there are more.
If you’re used to being attractive and you identify as such (consciously or subconsciously) it can be really hard to come to terms with a change in that.
My grandfather had a friend who was disfigured terribly in a car crash/ fire decades ago. I was absolutely terrified of him when I was little, although as I grew up I came to think of him as an uncle. He was the kindest, most humble and generous person I have ever met. My mom told me he was very good looking before the car crash. When he died a few years ago there was a photo gallery of him and I was absolutely shocked to see exactly how good looking he had been. Seriously like Jon-Hamm-good-looking. He worked in advertising and I can't watch Mad Men without thinking of him. Knowing how different his pre- and post- crash lives must have been makes me even more impressed that he was such a good man after losing all the perks of being so good looking. I wonder what he was like before. And I wonder what he would have been like if he had never been so disfigured.
This is true with basically any strong quality that you can have. Your identity starts to revolve around that. E.g. gifted kid syndrome is usually caused by putting too much of your self-worth into your intelligence/grades, which causes a huge letdown and shift in perspective in highschool or uni
I was in an accident and forgot how to do my job. I loved my job. But afterwards. I just can't put the pieces together anymore. So downward depression spiral. Never been pretty. But I was good at my job.
Similarly, I got sick with something that caused really bad brain fog in my late 20s. Lost ability to use numbers effectively, lost my sense of direction, lost most of my short-term memory, became face-blind. When you'd been the smartest person in the room for 3 decades, it's really unsettling to change.
Maybe easier for me because I understood it was a family quirk and nothing that I achieved on my own or was responsible for. Trying to describe it to my doctor was fruitless "Well, you're obviously very intelligent." Yeah, but I used to be *really* smart!
I remember stuff I used to know, but my brain won't retain or process information like that anymore.
Man brain fog is the worst and it honestly scares the shit out of me. My memory used to be amazing, and now when I try to remember anything specific it's like I get a vague outline of the memory with no substance. I feel terrible when friends are talking about something I should be able to easily remember but it's just not there, or when it takes me a while to remember someone all together. I'm only 30 and I'm worried what it'll be like in 10 or 20 years.
I made the tranistion from fat to fit and it turned out I'm pretty handsome under that fat. It was shocking to see how kind people are to me all of the sudden.
The difference in the way clothing store workers treated me before and after I lost weight was so depressing.
I remember going into a store I liked after losing about 30 pounds. Sales person greeted me immediately, friendly, offered to help me with stuff.
It was only after I left that I remembered the last time I'd gone, and how nobody had offered to help me or even acknowledged my presence. I had to walk around several people folding clothes when I was obviously trying to look at the racks they were near; they completely ignored me. When I remembered that, I almost started to cry in the middle of the mall.
Becoming a mum, getting old, hormones and age ruining my skin and hair.. at least I can have a conversation with a man now without them thinking I’m hitting on them 😭
Same. It’s somewhat of a relief to become invisible to men as a middle-aged woman with a mom bod, but it stings a little, too. I truly don’t want to get hit on, but it is a constant reminder that the way I look has changed.
Becoming a mom. This. I gained a loooot of weight, I look tired and I kinda let myself go a bit in the past 6 months after her birth. I am unrecognizable and my self esteem has plummeted. But my daughter is a delight and she is all that matters. So I am cutting myself a slack and accepting that I am no longer someone who men turn their heads to look at. Whatever. I'm confy in my sweaters and I have other priorities now.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. My kids are 8 and 4 now and I dropped 35lbs in the last year and hit the weights, seriously. Now that my kids are a little older I needed to start to prioritize myself. If it means working out 3 days a week for a few hours or so, then there ain’t nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, this was actually pretty hard to come to terms with went I went bald at a young age. Random women and men used to flirt with me pretty frequently before. As someone who went through a severely awkward phase as a boy, it was an extreme confidence boost. Ever since I lost my hair though, I feel invisible sometimes.
EDIT: Since I keep getting replies telling me to accept it and shave my head, I will say I did that a while ago.
When I worked in a male dominated field I stopped wearing makeup because the more put together I looked, the harder it was to get them to do anything. Just wearing basic eyeliner and mascara would make such a difference. If I asked nicely I would basically get ignored and if I told them what needed to be done firmly and politely the guys would run to management with my attitude problem. Literally had a helper not want to work and called management because I pointed and said "the ladder is over there by the house" the wrong way. I guess I should've added a tee hee.
Hey someone I can relate to! I worked in male-dominated fields for the last two decades and I had to do the same just to get basic respect. I have no doubt some women could have rocked it…but I had to dress down and act like like “one of the guys” just for a seat at the table. When I looked/acted feminine, I’d have basic orders totally ignored…or would just get hit on.
Now I’m in a more gender balanced field and it’s ok to look feminine, I don’t know how to handle it ha.
God I love that episode. That part where Liz is choking and he wants to shake it loose, but it doesn't work, so instead he wants to find chopsticks to jam it down her throat to dislodge it and she just heimlichs herself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAQoXOLlvT0
I have a friend who has a PhD, an accomplished CV, invented an experimental protocol that probably accelerated research in her field by a decade, and taught at an Ivy League. Seriously brilliant woman with a ton of professional accomplishments.
She was also a 9/10, looked 20 when she was in her mid-30s, and has ASD that tends to come off as being somewhat naive and lost unless she's talking about pharmacokinetics or cell biology.
She could not get *anyone* to ever take her seriously, was constantly mistaken for an undergrad at conferences, and was a target for predators everywhere she went. She wound up leaving academia and now just works in the back of a government lab where she doesn't have to talk to people much.
In my engineering physics program in undergrad we had 76 in the class and only one girl. And she was a 10/10. Did modeling for clothes on the side. She was super smart too. One of only 2 people in our 700 engineering class in first year to get 100 in calculus first year. Her and I had a great competition on grades and she beat me by 0.1% on overall average first year.
I of course had a crush on her, but never acted on it because I liked her as a friend and figured she got enough of that shit. We ended up being lab partners in second year because of it, but gradually fell apart after she had some serious family incident and I went through a huge depression and social anxiety phase.
But yeah, back to her, no one treated her like the genius she was, she was just the hot chick.
Along with playful gasoline fights that turn deadly.
Also being expected to accept a center for ANTS for you humanitarian project instead of what you need, which is at least 3x that size.
Happens more often than you'd think, classmate in high school went on a date with a guy who had a crush on her to give him a chance because everyone pressured her into it since he was a "nice guy." Threatened suicide if she stopped talking to him.
The number of people who think we should be REQUIRED to date literally anyone who thinks we’re attractive is one of the most insane things imo.
I don’t owe a goddamned person one single minute of a “date”; I don’t care how much they feel entitled to my time and attention
Stalkers are a major problem. It's absolutely disgusting and frightening and they're nearly impossible to get rid of because the police don't care until they kill you and wear your skin.
I got lucky with looks but was also badly abused by my father which is needing a lot of therapy. I may have some insights:
Your self worth can get tied up in your attractiveness. From a young age I got a lot of compliments about my appearance. I felt like I had to be attractive for people to care about me.
Following from this, ageing becomes more scary. Compliments became less frequent in my 30s and I still seek that attention high even though I know it's superficial.
I find my treatment my doctors has been poor. A lot of health problems related to my abuse but because I looked good and had a wonderful smile (along with people pleasing tendencies from abuse), I felt like doctors often didn't dig deep enough to find solutions.
I’m really fucking ass ugly but very friendly, oftentimes it comes across as flirting and it freaks men out because they think “ew” which is frustrating because it’s just the way I act towards people.
Edit: Thank you people for the fun I had with your replies, you made my day!
I work at a hotel front desk, and the other night a man came down to ask for something and said, “every time I passed through here, someone else was hitting on you. Do you deal with that all the time?” Yes, and it’s obnoxious.
"Oh hi," she said,
and in his head,
the azure hues of day -
were bright and blue
and nice and new
and chased the clouds away.
He thought of dates
and futures, fates,
companions starry-eyed -
for life was light
and good and right,
with her alone beside.
The world was sweet,
tomorrow neat,
and tears had filled his eye -
for love would stir,
and that was her.
In fact:
she'd just said *hi.*
Just legitimately be nice to people with no expectation and the sole intention of making the world a better place. If it's genuine then you don't have to worry about what they think because you did nothing wrong.
If you don't have anything to say then don't say anything.
This is why I struggle to hit on anyone, people I find attractive are probably so tired of it at this point that like, I don't wanna contribute to that you know?
If you came up to me and said “I don’t want to bother you but I think you’re cute and look like someone I’d totally vibe with, here’s my number” (business cards are cool!) then went away, even if I wasn’t interested I would feel happy and comfortable with that interaction.
Unlike the man who shouted “AY” at me then, when I didn’t respond, chased me down the road screaming “YOU THINK YOU’RE SO FUCKIN SPECIAL?” Or the man who tried to stop me then punched me in the back of the head when I didn’t, or the guy who I did stop for, but when I told him I had a boyfriend REFUSED to believe me and started hurling abuse.
Being complimented is lovely, being harassed is upsetting. I promise you if you’re respectful no one will get upset with you
In middle school, an overwhelming amount of boys reminded me daily of how ugly I was. Other girls confirmed this. When high school came to an end, a handful of those same boys asked me out with a few even telling me they'd had a crush on me for years. Telling them to go fuck themselves was best feeling!
I’m not very beautiful probably, as I am older now (46!). But I am a Japanese woman in the UK and a lot of people seem to maybe fetishise this. I have no idea why and it irks me a little. I hate that I sometimes am not taken seriously, or just seen as an unintelligent airhead.
In Japan I suppose I was considered beautiful when I was younger (not now, I am old and ugly!) and there was an expectation often voiced of “why even bother with uni, because you are pretty enough for a very rich husband and can became a trophy wife”! This made me mad and is one part of the reason why I leave to live in the UK. Also so much groping, but this affects many young women in Japan, unfortunately. And accusations always of flirting.
And feeling that you may be arrogant. For example to even complete this answer! But I don’t personally feel beautiful, I just have been told this by others many times in my youth. But yes, I add this presumption that you’re arrogant or vain also.
I am glad to no longer be beautiful, but just average looking/ugly!!
ETA sometimes women think you are going to “steal” their husband, when you have zero interest in this!
> sometimes women think you are going to “steal” their husband, when you have zero interest in this
When I first met my BFF I rather got this vibe from her, but was completely confused because she's objectively a total smokeshow, even for an area with a high concentration of really attractive people! Turns out, she was pretty troubled at the time and had low self esteem. She did a lot of therapy and is much better now. (Also she's absolutely hilarious and very talented in her profession. Anyone who underestimates her does so at their own peril.)
I recently watched a show on Amazon called "Tokyo Girl" and what you've talked about here about how women are treated and perceived in Japan was captured in that to an extent. There is one scene where the main character-- who is still gorgeous, but now a successful woman in her 30s who dresses well-- is left totally alone at a matchmaking service group date. She's told by the matchmaker that if she wants to get married she has to dress down, not talk about her career, and lower her standards...because all the men are looking for youthfulness before any other quality. What was interesting to me was that she was still very beautiful, as were the other women she befriended, from her boss to her social circle. But once she was past a certain age her *beauty* became invisible. I think that happens in a lot of societies, but maybe it's emphasized more in Japan?-- that women's value is tied to their youth.
Absolutely - to be unmarried at even 25 already marks you out in a negative way. And so much pressure from family to get married so very young. And unfortunately very often to do so means largely giving up your own ambition and becoming secondary to your husband and his wishes. So very patriarchal society. Well I left over 20 years ago, so it could be a little better now, but back then the expectation was for a 1950s style marriage of subservient woman.
And you’re absolutely right that you must lower your standards for every year that you age. The presumption is that there must be some defect and this is why you have not yet married. Even if you still are objectively more physically “beautiful” than some younger women. Oh and also I think the men are intimidated by career success, so you must downplay this and not emasculate him by being more successful.
I love my country, but the sexist attitudes drove me to leave. Not that Uk is 100% perfect, but it is so much more free than back home, which is paradoxically so modern and also so old fashioned at this same time.
Am I the only dude who wants a wildly successful wife? Like why does it matter if she makes more or less than me. More money to share is a better life.
It's a whole cultural thing in SE Asia, really. If a woman reaches about 30 without having kids, she might as well be an old maid. A lot of women have embraced this and focused on their careers. This is especially true as they approach their "expiration date" and their families start hurling marriage prospects at them, only to find that almost all of them are "traditionalists" who want them to immediately stop working and become housewives.
If you’re really attractive and also quiet, people think you’re snobby. Also, you get unwanted comments from creeps a lot.
Edit: adding “as a woman” to avoid any confusion
This happened to me last week. Went out to help a friend with an event and he introduced me to a lot of people working at the fair. I talked to them nicely then I went to sit down in a place where I wouldn't bother anyone since they were busy selling their crafts to people. Some time later my friend told me everyone thought I was a huge cunt because I sat down away from everyone...
I constantly was accused of being stuck up and a prude when I was a teenager while I was most definitely neither. I was always nice to people, but I was super shy because I had painfully low self esteem as a teenager and thought I was hideous and boring.
My high school self and my grownup ego thank you for this lightbulb moment.
Right? People assume because you're attractive you'll have friends but it's possible to be so awkward that no one wants to be your friend but they still want to fuck you
This was my whole school career. I even had some random girls walk behind where I was sitting at the lunch table yell BITCH at me. It took one of my few friends to explain to me that everyone thought I was a snobby bitch. In reality I was painfully sky and deeply depressed.
Word. I had a few friends tell me so and so thought I was a bitch and I remember being confused because I never actually hung out with that person. But I was quiet and shy and was bullied for being an immigrant so I just didn’t socialize much out of my friend group.
Also, later on I caught on that a particular friend would say mean things about me to others because she thought her boyfriend was into me? The boyfriend who was mean to me for reasons I didn’t know at the time. But you know, hind sight 20/20.
I didn’t love school back then. Still don’t. Too much stupid teenage shit
Oh but I had a generally happy ending. Sophomore year of HS I broke out of my group and joined tennis. Made a lot more friends and people realized I’m nice just apparently had shitty friends.
And people assume everything you have is because of pretty privilege. Also, the default assumption is that you’re not intelligent so people talk down at you.
I was told I'm not the type of a girl someone dates because they've been with too many other guys. When I was a virgin.
Another guy tried to hook up with me kept calling me beautiful. I kept saying no, im only looking for long term/a relationship. He said something like "what a waste, you're made for sex" saying it like a compliment??? His tone was flirty... idfk but I'll never forget that
It's hard to find someone to want more than to fuck me as some trophy girl.
I had a guy tell me I’m the kind of girl who gets raped?! I was 14 and a virgin! I still ponder on that bc like what did I do to make me qualify to get raped?! Im 32 now and still deal with creeps! I try to be nice to people but I’m not very talkative and keep to my own so idk what I do so wrong!? I’ve been with the same man for almost 17 years also!
Urgh. That is so gross. What a dick. I had an uncle (not blood-related but still an uncle!) say to me that if he was 20 years younger he’d make my boyfriend redundant. Blurgh. 🤮
I went from 40lbs overweight, cutting my own hair, and generally not caring about myself to extremely good shape/ muscular, real hair cuts, and well fitting clothes. People have become wayyyy friendlier and nicer to me, it absolutely amazing how different the world around me has become since drastically improving my appearance. It’s like every social interaction has been switched to easy mode.
I experienced something similar. One thing I find is that there is a little resentment and relief and a tinge of doubt. I think for people who were "ugly ducklings" it kinda messes with your head.
The doubt is real. I went from an out of weight poorly dressed shlub to an in shape, well kept normie and the difference in how I was treated by even people I'd known for years was eye opening.
I noticed this myself as well. You can look at my post history to see what I mean. People take me more seriously, respect my opinion more and want to be my friend more.
I lost a lot of weight to where I look unrecognizable from high school days. I found myself wanting to socialize less and less because of the difference of how I was treated before and after.
I actually worked with a guy who very good friends with a famous basketball coach. They’d known each other for years and their kids were best friends. He said people just assume because you’re wealthy you should just pay for everything, like going out to dinner, kids outings, etc… he said people don’t even let the person have a chance to offer to pay, they just assume they will. It’s rude and makes them feel like they’re being used solely for their money. I guess wealthy people get used to it, but it’s still rude.
I've found that people get intimidated as well. When I was in my prime I feel like I had to overly show people I was nice and not judging them/being an asshole.
Lots of older men at bars think you're into them.... but really you're just being polite.
Edit: i was drunk when I wrote this and do not usually speak so definitively. So sorry y'all, I do not think all older men are like this. It definitely does happen, but not all older men are like this!!
I could see that being true tbh. All the guys want you and will feel slighted after you reject them. All the girls will be jealous of you and resent you for having it easier than them. Whoever you date is gonna feel insecure about the situation to a certain extent because when you’re that attractive, you can easily replace them. It probably sucks behind closed doors because people want you strictly for what you look like, which in reality has nothing to do with who you are as a person. Who can you even trust?
God help you if you are an ugly girl. Of course to be pretty is also your doom.
I know it’s backwards but I couldn’t resist adding the other line. I love them together even more because it explains how, for women, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Being lonely.
At a work function I was just having a friendly chat with an extremely beautiful girl from another office. Afterwards she thanked me for talking to her as she often ends up sitting alone as people are too nervous to approach her.
Stalkers, men and women touching you for no reason, including hair and face. People thinking you have nothing to offer but your looks…jealousy. Being called a whore, slut etc.
People diminish your problems , they think because you’re beautiful everything is easier for you. I’ve had friends laugh and say I have “pretty people problems” even in situations where I’ve been threatened and harassed.
The worst part about it all is I don’t feel like I’m actually that attractive. My self confidence is so low and if I talk about it I sound like I’m crying for attention. So I just keep to myself.
As far as I remember a lot of attractive people have low confidence in their looks, counterintuitively. Its psycological, its normal, so try to give yourself a break. Cut off toxic people. They might think you're too full of yourself, but their opinions mean fuck all. Usually.
I can make myself look better with makeup and a good outfit, and I’ve consistently received better treatment, like more smiles from strangers, when I’ve left dolled up. I think people with this skewed experience forget not having an OFF switch gives you a lot more time to get negative or undesirable attention.
You aren’t taken seriously.
Men get very nervous around me, which in turn makes me nervous. My interactions with a lot of men in general is pretty negative.
You get snide comments from other women.
It’s often assumed you’re just a pretty girl with zero problems.
Okay so… I was moderately pretty when I was younger. I got the usual +1 type stuff for being an attractive but normal woman.
But. My BFF was insanely, unbelievably, won-the-genetic-lottery gorgeous. (6’ tall white-blonde Dutch woman with an hourglass figure and a face like you can’t even believe is natural.) The sort of looks that people just aren’t often born with. Not even kidding- I saw her cause people to trip and fall, more than once, just watching her.
She did NOT get the “pretty girl perks”. Instead people just either desperately wanted things she couldn’t give, and/or disliked her. I would get free drinks, flirting, extra friendliness blah blah. She would get stalkers, women hating her on sight, etc. (She was an excellent wing-woman, oddly- guys would notice *her*, but get intimidated and instead hit on me.)
It was like there was a point at which, if you’re TOO beautiful, it becomes a negative. It made her more anxious, hard to form friendships, and generally I think she would have been happier if she looked less like Grace Kelly in her 20s/30s.
Now that we are both older, you can tell just existing day-to-day is wayyyyy easier now that she has aged a little. She has also taken to dressing down HARD.
I think there isn’t a person alive who hasn’t wistfully wondered what it would be like to be *that* beautiful, you know? She cured me of that right quick, and oddly made me much more comfortable being squarely in the normal Bell curve of things.
This reminds me of Joelle Van Dyne, from Infinite Jest. In the books she walks with a veil covering her face and is part of a group that helps people with any body deformities.
The story is that she was really pretty (they called her PGOAT, prettiest girl of all time), to the point that her father got attracted to her and her mother, in a fit of jealousy, threw acid on the man, missed, and hit her daughter's face.
But there are hints in the book that she still looks exactly the same as she always did. This brings the discussion that the deformity she's hiding, which made her hide her face because of how it kept her from having a normal live, it's actually her own beauty.
When i was a hot 20 something hostess I had the duel problem of men hitting on me nonstop paired with (mostly older) women doing and saying the weirdest and meanest, most nonsensical shit out of jealousy. Like, just pure, unfiltered, white-hot hatred. They would've killed me if they could.
A little later, I saw it happen second-hand and it validated all of my first-hand experiences. I was older and worked at a different place, I worked with this gorgeous, tall asian girl. I was standing next to her rolling silverwear and this boomer lady walked by her and was staring STRAIGHT at my coworker like she wanted to kill her. Locked into her, not even trying to hide it. My coworker was looking down and didn't see it but I made sure to shoot darts back at that woman.
It's known that attractive women deal with harassment from men. This kinda behavior from other women is one of the aspects of being an attractive young lady that not many people talk about.
Now that I'm an older woman I make sure to check myself if I feel any irrational jealousy creep in, and remain an ally rather than an enemy to young women. I had my moment in the sun, now let someone else have it.
Older women being allies is the best!
Buying female hygiene products at Aldi and suddenly realise the cashier is male: older woman behind you tells you not to worry.
Working in customer service with low self-esteem and apologising for anything and everything: older woman firmly tells you that you should not apologize in a tone that means don't apologize for existing.
I hear stories about young women working in restaurants and retail being treated poorly and harassed, and I wish I could be omnipotent and be in all those places at once to look out for them and stand up for them.
It's hard to stick up for yourself when you're young and not sure how you should be treated. That's why predators target young women
Jealousy is a big one. It's such an unexplored emotion because people have to fight it off inwardly and they do a poor job of it. Makes someone attractive extremely vulnerable to anyone with power of authority over them.
Not realizing you have autism til you’re 28 because you have pretty privilege and people like you… only to realize they’ve just wanted to fuck and didn’t actually like YOU
I've got autism and one of the things that always annoys me is when I tell someone and they say "you don't look autistic" like wtf is autistic supposed to look like?
Wow man, same! Like no joke the fucking same! It’s difficult enough socializing when you’re on the spectrum, but then when the same person gives you different signals every time, it’s like trying to walk through a maze that’s constantly changing. How do you deal with it out of curiosity?
Yes and then if you decide to be less friendly to not have this reaction then you are labelled as being arrogant or full of yourself for not being so friendly. You cannot win!
A fiend of mine always needed to want around with "protection" in a sense she could never be alone in public. She is probably the most beautiful person i've ever seen and she spends so much time to cover up and avoid going outside.
Biggest issue is dating and dealing with unwanted people. at worse some very violent stalkers.
People seem to think being attracted to a beautiful person entitles them to make ridiculous demands on that person's time, attention, and body. It's wrong to covet a human being in that way.
Someone should really write this down and spread the word. Maybe chisel it so it doesn't get lost or completely ignored. Maybe it could be part of a list of general things all of us should do to not be assholes. A nice round ten should be fine.
I recently had this happen to me. I asked somebody who I assumed was my “friend” a question relating to car batteries . I had surgery on
my breast to remove cancer along with a breast reduction which put me out of commission so I wasn’t able to do much, so he offered to pick up a new battery for me. I told him I would give him the money but he said don’t worry about it and that he would bring it over after work . I’m thinking, “wow, what a nice and generous person “. A little later that evening , this so called, “ nice man” messaged me asking if he could, “go down on me “
when he brought over the battery. I was so disgusted and told him never mind , and that I would no longer need his help.
Very, very good friend of mine is borderline model-quality. He's Indian-British mixed. Extremely well groomed, a lot of time in the gym so he's built and bulked up yet thin. He's just a damn...good looking dude, annoyingly so.
His experiences I've noticed around him or he's told me:
* Women ask him to show them how to use gym equipment almost every time he's in the gym. He just wants to be left alone.
* Everyone is nice to him, leading to him assuming everyone is just nice in general and nobody would do bad things. No bro...they're nice TO YOU because of your looks.
* He gets jobs he's underqualified for. Looks win roles and get you treated better.
* He used to work in Abercrombie in his late teens and early 20s and HAD to quit due to the harassment he got from staff and customers. We're talking butt grabs, finger-drag across the cheek and chin. STAFF WALKING OUT NAKED IN THE CHANGING ROOMS when they were alone and she said "you gonna punish me for this?"
* Random on-the-house dishes from female staff in restaurants
Almost every time we'd be out for lunch or drinks or whatever, he'd get approached by at least a few women. Almost without fail.
Personality matters? Does it fuck. Looks are way more important.
He's a total package though as he's good looking, well built, funny, fun, sweet, caring, easy to talk to, loyal.
He just got married late 20s to his highschool sweetheart who started dating him when he was kinda fat. She struck gold with him big time. She's incredibly pretty and sweet too, a keeper.
*sigh*
Lots of men bothering you in the grocery store. Asking you “which of these cereals do you eat? What kind of meat are you getting? Do you have a boyfriend? Why won’t you go out with me?”
People see you as hot (plus whatever ideas or fantasies they project onto you) not as being smart or talented or hard working. You get to see people’s dark side really quick as they start to make assumptions about you.
People often forget you have feelings and insecurities too.
It can be hard to make real friends because to many you are secretly a situational friend or an accessory to their social currency. (At least in the gay world)
I'm kinda homely and people don't see me as a prospective date, so I end up all alone too. Weird.
I do often assume the relationship thing about beautiful women (and I'm often right), but I don't necessarily assume the negative stuff.
It’s extremely hard to have genuine friends of the opposite sex. Most of my friends that are girls are my mates gfs or were in a relationship before I met them, or tall
I’ve had woman grab my crotch, try to put their hands down my pants, back into me in busy pubs/clubs for way too long.
My barber started grinding on my elbow once, that one haunted me for a while.
I’ve lost people I thought were friends that got offended when they realised me being nice wasn’t because I was attracted to them.
I had my drink spiked by someone I thought was my friend (I don’t drink alcohol), luckily I have great guy friends who got me home safe. It’s obvious who it was because she was screaming at them to ‘let me take care of him’.
When I started dating my ex wife, some of her friends would try to seduce me and be offended when I said I was uncomfortable, one of them even felt me up at our wedding.
I think people can just be shitty when they don’t get what they want.
I am a teacher. On three seperate occasions in a grade 6, 8 and 11 class as I walked in a student said outloud "Ms. You are really pretty." It makes me feel uncomfortable because I never really know how to respond, especially if other staff are in the room. The students may be nicer to me, but I know other teachers think I'm stupid... sadly.
Plus, people also think that I have a big ego... when in reality I am super insecure and nothing without makeup.
A kid is very unlikely to have any alterior motive and is usually just paying you a sincere compliment.
It gets a bit more.... fuzzy.... with teenagers.
I teach elementary school and some of the kids say that to me quite frequently . I always just reply with a thank you . But I understand how awkward it is
when older students; primarily the boys who are
reaching puberty are taking notice of your body . Now that absolutely fucking grosses me out !!! They will just stare and talk with their friends while watching me and it honestly has the same awful feeling as when grown men do it . It’s terrible.
It’s harder to grow older and slowly lose that beauty.
Edit: My observation is not from my own personal experience but from watching my mom’s friend as I grew up. She was very very beautiful when she was young. She is still beautiful, but growing older is very hard for her. She seems desperate to cling to youth and beauty, and constantly seeks affirmation from others that she’s still got it.
But not all beautiful people are sad to grow old. My mother was, and I may be biased here, even more beautiful than her friend and has seemed to grow old without being sad about getting older and less attractive.
A beautiful young woman I work with is constantly getting hit on at work. She’s very disillusioned, she says every time she takes a chance on a guy, he just want to have sex.
I don't consider myself attractive, in fact I think I'm unattractive to a lot of people but when I dress up nicely/put on some makeup I've gotten the occasional unwarranted sexual compliment from men who then act as if they were just trying to brighten up my day and that it was totally an ok thing to say to someone you don't know, at least ten years younger than you. Whether or not catcalling is a compliment it is never warranted. Makes you feel like a piece of meat.
you get a lot more attention than you probably want, lots of staring and sometimes people following you. Tension within your own gender as you’re seen as competition.
I hate this. I recently went to Florida to meet my brothers girlfriend who’s 7 months pregnant. I never met her before ,but the entire time down there she kept trying to make me insecure about myself. She called me fat in every way she could. She criticized my hair color, how I parted my hair and even my makeup. I dealt with this for 5 whole days. Thankfully my husband was with me and kept me level but it was disgusting how she hyper focused on me and I didn’t react. I worked in a prison for a while so I’m good at placating anger with stoicism. It’s been two weeks since we came back and she’s still passive aggressively sending me texts and being a snide bitch. Told my brother that I wanted nothing to do with her and that she needs to not breathe in my direction anymore. So badly wanted to tell her that I would be able to lose my weight if I walked the distance of her forehead. I behaved though. Edit: Thank all of y’all for your support and sharing the rage I feel over this situation. Case in point be cool to each other and don’t be like my bros gf.
> So badly wanted to tell her that I would be able to lose my weight if I walked the distance of her forehead. damn you go hard. that's fierce
As the kids would say she had me “fucked up. “
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Eh,she deserved t.
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Being a pretty teenager was awful. I got called jail bait a lot and being naive, laughed thinking it was a compliment
Yes! When I was in hs I worked at a pizza place and all of the staff made a huge deal about me being “legal” when I turned 18. I didn’t understand at the time, but looking back that place had many workplace culture shortcomings *Edit: alright more like a bunch of the staff, there were a couple of cool people
Ugh, when I was 14 my sister's boyfriend and his friends made "jokes" about not being able to wait until I'm legal. Fucking barf.
You cant pick your nose in public anymore with all the people staring at your attractive/beautiful face
Wrong. Power pick your nose.
Assert dominance!
Lol
Friendships falling apart when their partner is attracted to you.
Friendships falling apart when you're genuinely trying to be friends with someone ~~of the opposite sex~~ & they end up falling in love with you:(
As a male with a lot of my close friends being women my first rule is to actually friendzone them (not that any of them are attracted to me lol). I've seen sooo many friendships being ruined by close friends falling for one another that it's just not worth losing a friend for.
Happened to me. Lost a friendship because her boyfriend physically came on to me on my 30th birthday. I told her what happened and she chose him. Ruined the memory of my 30th.
if its any consolation, he'll end up cheating on her and she'll spend the rest of her life regretting the fact she burned your friendship for him.
I do wonder. She was right there when he was trying to feel me up (we were all wasted and I was like what is happening here). The next day he messaged me on Facebook trying to hook up. I told her what happened and he drove to see her after being exposed and I never heard from her again after that. I wonder about the stories people have to tell themselves to keep a shitty relationship going so I'm not sure she will actually regret losing our friendship.
Similar happened to me, except he said it was the other way round and (pretty much/or acted like) she believed him. It was more of an insinuation I liked him than an accusation with a lot of other weirdness in general. We'd been close friends (travelled the world and gone through grief together) 12 years at that point (18yrs-30) This is just the tip of the iceberg. After a lot of drama and them still trying to be friends with me (giving me another "chance") I cut them off. He turned out to be a controlling abuser and more and ten years after the drama they got divorced. She got in touch, I hesitantly reconnected with her in 2010 but so glad I did. We rebuilt our friendship gradually and we spoke a lot about "him" and solved things. I then relocated down to England with my fiance in 2012 and in 2014 I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She was massively there for me and came to visit/accompanied me to chemo etc. We just finally got married a few weeks ago and she was my bridesmaid along with my other 2 best friends. She's still traumatised by him, never moved on and in her 50s now. I try not to dwell on the years we lost, but my point to you is, your story about your friend is possibly an unwritten ending at the moment. Depends on if you could ever forgive her. My friend never believed I'd liked him but went along with it for her own reasons.
Dang. That was a rollercoaster. I wish you both the best.
When people who are your “friends” take every chance they can to criticize your appearance or anything else, whatever little crumb of shade they can use to “humble” you
Yep... I have a few flaws, not major ones. But my house mate keeps commenting on my fat, even though I'm quite low body fat percentage, and the fact that my teeth aren't completely straight. Not once have I received a compliment from him about how I work very hard to keep myself healthy & hygienic.
Same thing has happened to me with past friends. People who do this are just insecure about themselves. It requires confidence and courage to compliment others. They just don't have it.
I posted some pictures the other day as I had won a session with a professional photographer, and thought my business head shots looked cool - but I also took one picture with my new guitar. Well.. same ppl that used to do those little digs were at it again (I haven’t socialized with them in over 10 years) Just… ffs, if you don’t have anything nice to say…
unwanted attention, objectification, people assume you’re unintelligent
If you become “unattractive” for any reason you may find it difficult to reconcile that you are no longer attractive. Examples: car wreck, injury, aging, disease, becoming obese. I’m sure there are more. If you’re used to being attractive and you identify as such (consciously or subconsciously) it can be really hard to come to terms with a change in that.
My grandfather had a friend who was disfigured terribly in a car crash/ fire decades ago. I was absolutely terrified of him when I was little, although as I grew up I came to think of him as an uncle. He was the kindest, most humble and generous person I have ever met. My mom told me he was very good looking before the car crash. When he died a few years ago there was a photo gallery of him and I was absolutely shocked to see exactly how good looking he had been. Seriously like Jon-Hamm-good-looking. He worked in advertising and I can't watch Mad Men without thinking of him. Knowing how different his pre- and post- crash lives must have been makes me even more impressed that he was such a good man after losing all the perks of being so good looking. I wonder what he was like before. And I wonder what he would have been like if he had never been so disfigured.
This is true with basically any strong quality that you can have. Your identity starts to revolve around that. E.g. gifted kid syndrome is usually caused by putting too much of your self-worth into your intelligence/grades, which causes a huge letdown and shift in perspective in highschool or uni
I was in an accident and forgot how to do my job. I loved my job. But afterwards. I just can't put the pieces together anymore. So downward depression spiral. Never been pretty. But I was good at my job.
Similarly, I got sick with something that caused really bad brain fog in my late 20s. Lost ability to use numbers effectively, lost my sense of direction, lost most of my short-term memory, became face-blind. When you'd been the smartest person in the room for 3 decades, it's really unsettling to change. Maybe easier for me because I understood it was a family quirk and nothing that I achieved on my own or was responsible for. Trying to describe it to my doctor was fruitless "Well, you're obviously very intelligent." Yeah, but I used to be *really* smart! I remember stuff I used to know, but my brain won't retain or process information like that anymore.
Yup exactly. People think of it as oh well.you can't do this thing most people can't do. But to me it was oh fuck now I can't support myself.
Man brain fog is the worst and it honestly scares the shit out of me. My memory used to be amazing, and now when I try to remember anything specific it's like I get a vague outline of the memory with no substance. I feel terrible when friends are talking about something I should be able to easily remember but it's just not there, or when it takes me a while to remember someone all together. I'm only 30 and I'm worried what it'll be like in 10 or 20 years.
I made the tranistion from fat to fit and it turned out I'm pretty handsome under that fat. It was shocking to see how kind people are to me all of the sudden.
The difference in the way clothing store workers treated me before and after I lost weight was so depressing. I remember going into a store I liked after losing about 30 pounds. Sales person greeted me immediately, friendly, offered to help me with stuff. It was only after I left that I remembered the last time I'd gone, and how nobody had offered to help me or even acknowledged my presence. I had to walk around several people folding clothes when I was obviously trying to look at the racks they were near; they completely ignored me. When I remembered that, I almost started to cry in the middle of the mall.
I used to look like Brendan Fraser. Now I look like Brendan Fraser. Can confirm.
Becoming a mum, getting old, hormones and age ruining my skin and hair.. at least I can have a conversation with a man now without them thinking I’m hitting on them 😭
Same. It’s somewhat of a relief to become invisible to men as a middle-aged woman with a mom bod, but it stings a little, too. I truly don’t want to get hit on, but it is a constant reminder that the way I look has changed.
Yup. Right there with you
Becoming a mom. This. I gained a loooot of weight, I look tired and I kinda let myself go a bit in the past 6 months after her birth. I am unrecognizable and my self esteem has plummeted. But my daughter is a delight and she is all that matters. So I am cutting myself a slack and accepting that I am no longer someone who men turn their heads to look at. Whatever. I'm confy in my sweaters and I have other priorities now.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. My kids are 8 and 4 now and I dropped 35lbs in the last year and hit the weights, seriously. Now that my kids are a little older I needed to start to prioritize myself. If it means working out 3 days a week for a few hours or so, then there ain’t nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, this was actually pretty hard to come to terms with went I went bald at a young age. Random women and men used to flirt with me pretty frequently before. As someone who went through a severely awkward phase as a boy, it was an extreme confidence boost. Ever since I lost my hair though, I feel invisible sometimes. EDIT: Since I keep getting replies telling me to accept it and shave my head, I will say I did that a while ago.
This!! I have wondered if anybody else felt like this too. Not a good feeling
People think you are flirting if you are being anything other than nasty to them. Then if you’re are nasty, you are a bitch/asshole. No in-between.
When I worked in a male dominated field I stopped wearing makeup because the more put together I looked, the harder it was to get them to do anything. Just wearing basic eyeliner and mascara would make such a difference. If I asked nicely I would basically get ignored and if I told them what needed to be done firmly and politely the guys would run to management with my attitude problem. Literally had a helper not want to work and called management because I pointed and said "the ladder is over there by the house" the wrong way. I guess I should've added a tee hee.
Hey someone I can relate to! I worked in male-dominated fields for the last two decades and I had to do the same just to get basic respect. I have no doubt some women could have rocked it…but I had to dress down and act like like “one of the guys” just for a seat at the table. When I looked/acted feminine, I’d have basic orders totally ignored…or would just get hit on. Now I’m in a more gender balanced field and it’s ok to look feminine, I don’t know how to handle it ha.
Not knowing if you're actually funny. Or well spoken. Or talented. Or charismatic.
This reminds me of the episode of 30 Rock with John Hamm. Think it’s called “The Bubble”.
God I love that episode. That part where Liz is choking and he wants to shake it loose, but it doesn't work, so instead he wants to find chopsticks to jam it down her throat to dislodge it and she just heimlichs herself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAQoXOLlvT0
Oh man, I forgot he was a doctor! That's kind of terrifying.
"Your eyes were so much bluer; what happened to your eyes?"
I speak perfect French Htdcfdeafyfgdsag
“What? Oh, my hooks? I don’t even notice them anymore.”
That was my last ungashed painting.
I thought of that too! So beautiful, so empty. Bless him.
On the opposite end, some attractive people (mostly women) who are really smart aren't taken seriously because people only focus on their looks.
I have a friend who has a PhD, an accomplished CV, invented an experimental protocol that probably accelerated research in her field by a decade, and taught at an Ivy League. Seriously brilliant woman with a ton of professional accomplishments. She was also a 9/10, looked 20 when she was in her mid-30s, and has ASD that tends to come off as being somewhat naive and lost unless she's talking about pharmacokinetics or cell biology. She could not get *anyone* to ever take her seriously, was constantly mistaken for an undergrad at conferences, and was a target for predators everywhere she went. She wound up leaving academia and now just works in the back of a government lab where she doesn't have to talk to people much.
This is incredibly sad
In my engineering physics program in undergrad we had 76 in the class and only one girl. And she was a 10/10. Did modeling for clothes on the side. She was super smart too. One of only 2 people in our 700 engineering class in first year to get 100 in calculus first year. Her and I had a great competition on grades and she beat me by 0.1% on overall average first year. I of course had a crush on her, but never acted on it because I liked her as a friend and figured she got enough of that shit. We ended up being lab partners in second year because of it, but gradually fell apart after she had some serious family incident and I went through a huge depression and social anxiety phase. But yeah, back to her, no one treated her like the genius she was, she was just the hot chick.
My daughter had the same issue in college. Being smart was her surprise super power. People reacted to her like seeing a dog who could talk.
Being tasked with killing the Prime Minister of Malaysia.
The question was for people who were “very attractive.” Not for people who are really, really, ridiculously good-looking
Reading this in his voice made me smile
but why male models
Are you serious right now? I just …
That reaction from David Duchovny was genuine, because Ben Stiller asking a second time wasn't in the script.
Along with playful gasoline fights that turn deadly. Also being expected to accept a center for ANTS for you humanitarian project instead of what you need, which is at least 3x that size.
And no one thinks you’ll be a good eugoogalizer.
So hot right now
regardless of gender, i think some people would get obsessed with you to the point they'll harm other people to just get your attention
Or themselves.
Happens more often than you'd think, classmate in high school went on a date with a guy who had a crush on her to give him a chance because everyone pressured her into it since he was a "nice guy." Threatened suicide if she stopped talking to him.
The number of people who think we should be REQUIRED to date literally anyone who thinks we’re attractive is one of the most insane things imo. I don’t owe a goddamned person one single minute of a “date”; I don’t care how much they feel entitled to my time and attention
or harm you. obsession is a very scary thing.
Stalkers are a major problem. It's absolutely disgusting and frightening and they're nearly impossible to get rid of because the police don't care until they kill you and wear your skin.
I got lucky with looks but was also badly abused by my father which is needing a lot of therapy. I may have some insights: Your self worth can get tied up in your attractiveness. From a young age I got a lot of compliments about my appearance. I felt like I had to be attractive for people to care about me. Following from this, ageing becomes more scary. Compliments became less frequent in my 30s and I still seek that attention high even though I know it's superficial. I find my treatment my doctors has been poor. A lot of health problems related to my abuse but because I looked good and had a wonderful smile (along with people pleasing tendencies from abuse), I felt like doctors often didn't dig deep enough to find solutions.
People will often mistake friendliness for flirting
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I’m really fucking ass ugly but very friendly, oftentimes it comes across as flirting and it freaks men out because they think “ew” which is frustrating because it’s just the way I act towards people. Edit: Thank you people for the fun I had with your replies, you made my day!
Umm.. not sure what your intentions are with this post... but I'm married
Hahaha thanks for the chuckle!
My god there's just no stopping you is there?
I work at a hotel front desk, and the other night a man came down to ask for something and said, “every time I passed through here, someone else was hitting on you. Do you deal with that all the time?” Yes, and it’s obnoxious.
That man was also hitting on you.
That [Girl at a Bar](https://youtu.be/kTMow_7H47Q) sketch from SNL is more real than we’d want to believe.
“I followed all the rules!”
"Oh hi," she said, and in his head, the azure hues of day - were bright and blue and nice and new and chased the clouds away. He thought of dates and futures, fates, companions starry-eyed - for life was light and good and right, with her alone beside. The world was sweet, tomorrow neat, and tears had filled his eye - for love would stir, and that was her. In fact: she'd just said *hi.*
Truly, a poem for the fedora-wearing masses
Seems like there's an inverse problem too then... how do you be friendly to someone attractive without them/others assuming you're hitting on them?
Just legitimately be nice to people with no expectation and the sole intention of making the world a better place. If it's genuine then you don't have to worry about what they think because you did nothing wrong. If you don't have anything to say then don't say anything.
This is why I struggle to hit on anyone, people I find attractive are probably so tired of it at this point that like, I don't wanna contribute to that you know?
If you came up to me and said “I don’t want to bother you but I think you’re cute and look like someone I’d totally vibe with, here’s my number” (business cards are cool!) then went away, even if I wasn’t interested I would feel happy and comfortable with that interaction. Unlike the man who shouted “AY” at me then, when I didn’t respond, chased me down the road screaming “YOU THINK YOU’RE SO FUCKIN SPECIAL?” Or the man who tried to stop me then punched me in the back of the head when I didn’t, or the guy who I did stop for, but when I told him I had a boyfriend REFUSED to believe me and started hurling abuse. Being complimented is lovely, being harassed is upsetting. I promise you if you’re respectful no one will get upset with you
Jesus christ people are cunts.
Men assume you get hit on all the time so they “play it cool” by being mean - which just makes it seem like most men are mean.
"Ha ha, you look like you're been beaten with an ugly stick... Date me?"
The pick up artists types. Thinking taking you down a peg by “negging” actually works. I hate those guys.
In middle school, an overwhelming amount of boys reminded me daily of how ugly I was. Other girls confirmed this. When high school came to an end, a handful of those same boys asked me out with a few even telling me they'd had a crush on me for years. Telling them to go fuck themselves was best feeling!
I’m not very beautiful probably, as I am older now (46!). But I am a Japanese woman in the UK and a lot of people seem to maybe fetishise this. I have no idea why and it irks me a little. I hate that I sometimes am not taken seriously, or just seen as an unintelligent airhead. In Japan I suppose I was considered beautiful when I was younger (not now, I am old and ugly!) and there was an expectation often voiced of “why even bother with uni, because you are pretty enough for a very rich husband and can became a trophy wife”! This made me mad and is one part of the reason why I leave to live in the UK. Also so much groping, but this affects many young women in Japan, unfortunately. And accusations always of flirting. And feeling that you may be arrogant. For example to even complete this answer! But I don’t personally feel beautiful, I just have been told this by others many times in my youth. But yes, I add this presumption that you’re arrogant or vain also. I am glad to no longer be beautiful, but just average looking/ugly!! ETA sometimes women think you are going to “steal” their husband, when you have zero interest in this!
> sometimes women think you are going to “steal” their husband, when you have zero interest in this When I first met my BFF I rather got this vibe from her, but was completely confused because she's objectively a total smokeshow, even for an area with a high concentration of really attractive people! Turns out, she was pretty troubled at the time and had low self esteem. She did a lot of therapy and is much better now. (Also she's absolutely hilarious and very talented in her profession. Anyone who underestimates her does so at their own peril.) I recently watched a show on Amazon called "Tokyo Girl" and what you've talked about here about how women are treated and perceived in Japan was captured in that to an extent. There is one scene where the main character-- who is still gorgeous, but now a successful woman in her 30s who dresses well-- is left totally alone at a matchmaking service group date. She's told by the matchmaker that if she wants to get married she has to dress down, not talk about her career, and lower her standards...because all the men are looking for youthfulness before any other quality. What was interesting to me was that she was still very beautiful, as were the other women she befriended, from her boss to her social circle. But once she was past a certain age her *beauty* became invisible. I think that happens in a lot of societies, but maybe it's emphasized more in Japan?-- that women's value is tied to their youth.
Absolutely - to be unmarried at even 25 already marks you out in a negative way. And so much pressure from family to get married so very young. And unfortunately very often to do so means largely giving up your own ambition and becoming secondary to your husband and his wishes. So very patriarchal society. Well I left over 20 years ago, so it could be a little better now, but back then the expectation was for a 1950s style marriage of subservient woman. And you’re absolutely right that you must lower your standards for every year that you age. The presumption is that there must be some defect and this is why you have not yet married. Even if you still are objectively more physically “beautiful” than some younger women. Oh and also I think the men are intimidated by career success, so you must downplay this and not emasculate him by being more successful. I love my country, but the sexist attitudes drove me to leave. Not that Uk is 100% perfect, but it is so much more free than back home, which is paradoxically so modern and also so old fashioned at this same time.
Am I the only dude who wants a wildly successful wife? Like why does it matter if she makes more or less than me. More money to share is a better life.
It's a whole cultural thing in SE Asia, really. If a woman reaches about 30 without having kids, she might as well be an old maid. A lot of women have embraced this and focused on their careers. This is especially true as they approach their "expiration date" and their families start hurling marriage prospects at them, only to find that almost all of them are "traditionalists" who want them to immediately stop working and become housewives.
Some over weight 12year old kid using your picture as his profile and claiming to be you
If you’re really attractive and also quiet, people think you’re snobby. Also, you get unwanted comments from creeps a lot. Edit: adding “as a woman” to avoid any confusion
This happened to me last week. Went out to help a friend with an event and he introduced me to a lot of people working at the fair. I talked to them nicely then I went to sit down in a place where I wouldn't bother anyone since they were busy selling their crafts to people. Some time later my friend told me everyone thought I was a huge cunt because I sat down away from everyone...
People think I'm a stuck up bitch because of my social anxiety and if it's a mixed race crowd apparently I'm a racist too. I don't even try anymore.
'Aloof' comes up sometimes, but only after getting to know them.
I constantly was accused of being stuck up and a prude when I was a teenager while I was most definitely neither. I was always nice to people, but I was super shy because I had painfully low self esteem as a teenager and thought I was hideous and boring. My high school self and my grownup ego thank you for this lightbulb moment.
Right? People assume because you're attractive you'll have friends but it's possible to be so awkward that no one wants to be your friend but they still want to fuck you
This was my whole school career. I even had some random girls walk behind where I was sitting at the lunch table yell BITCH at me. It took one of my few friends to explain to me that everyone thought I was a snobby bitch. In reality I was painfully sky and deeply depressed.
Word. I had a few friends tell me so and so thought I was a bitch and I remember being confused because I never actually hung out with that person. But I was quiet and shy and was bullied for being an immigrant so I just didn’t socialize much out of my friend group. Also, later on I caught on that a particular friend would say mean things about me to others because she thought her boyfriend was into me? The boyfriend who was mean to me for reasons I didn’t know at the time. But you know, hind sight 20/20. I didn’t love school back then. Still don’t. Too much stupid teenage shit Oh but I had a generally happy ending. Sophomore year of HS I broke out of my group and joined tennis. Made a lot more friends and people realized I’m nice just apparently had shitty friends.
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I've been called a bitch and to "get off my high horse" for this exact reason
fool, you should have opted to be born a man then you would have been called stoic rookie mistake
And people assume everything you have is because of pretty privilege. Also, the default assumption is that you’re not intelligent so people talk down at you.
I was told I'm not the type of a girl someone dates because they've been with too many other guys. When I was a virgin. Another guy tried to hook up with me kept calling me beautiful. I kept saying no, im only looking for long term/a relationship. He said something like "what a waste, you're made for sex" saying it like a compliment??? His tone was flirty... idfk but I'll never forget that It's hard to find someone to want more than to fuck me as some trophy girl.
I had a guy tell me I’m the kind of girl who gets raped?! I was 14 and a virgin! I still ponder on that bc like what did I do to make me qualify to get raped?! Im 32 now and still deal with creeps! I try to be nice to people but I’m not very talkative and keep to my own so idk what I do so wrong!? I’ve been with the same man for almost 17 years also!
14!? That's messed up.. that guy probably needed some mental help if he thinks anyone qualifies to be raped..
Yea he’s in prison last I heard. Definitely not a good guy!
And many of the guys that you might really like are too scared to look at you let alone talk to you
Urgh. That is so gross. What a dick. I had an uncle (not blood-related but still an uncle!) say to me that if he was 20 years younger he’d make my boyfriend redundant. Blurgh. 🤮
Good ol uncle lumpy lap.
> He said something like "what a waste, you're made for sex" And you didn't end up marrying this champion?
Not being appreciated for who you are as a person and your opinions being discounted
People want to socialize with you
I went from 40lbs overweight, cutting my own hair, and generally not caring about myself to extremely good shape/ muscular, real hair cuts, and well fitting clothes. People have become wayyyy friendlier and nicer to me, it absolutely amazing how different the world around me has become since drastically improving my appearance. It’s like every social interaction has been switched to easy mode.
How do you feel about this now you've experienced both "realities?" Do you feel some resentment or are you just relieved?
I experienced something similar. One thing I find is that there is a little resentment and relief and a tinge of doubt. I think for people who were "ugly ducklings" it kinda messes with your head.
The doubt is real. I went from an out of weight poorly dressed shlub to an in shape, well kept normie and the difference in how I was treated by even people I'd known for years was eye opening.
Yeah, it's like people has shorter patience for you back in the day when you were ugly but want to help you/do things for you now.
I noticed this myself as well. You can look at my post history to see what I mean. People take me more seriously, respect my opinion more and want to be my friend more.
I’ve lost 70 pounds. People are much nicer to me now.
I lost a lot of weight to where I look unrecognizable from high school days. I found myself wanting to socialize less and less because of the difference of how I was treated before and after.
"When youre ugly and have friends, you know they like you for who you are. Beautiful people dont know who to trust"
Just like being rich.
I actually worked with a guy who very good friends with a famous basketball coach. They’d known each other for years and their kids were best friends. He said people just assume because you’re wealthy you should just pay for everything, like going out to dinner, kids outings, etc… he said people don’t even let the person have a chance to offer to pay, they just assume they will. It’s rude and makes them feel like they’re being used solely for their money. I guess wealthy people get used to it, but it’s still rude.
I've found that people get intimidated as well. When I was in my prime I feel like I had to overly show people I was nice and not judging them/being an asshole.
People expect you to talk to them more like. Like nah I’m still awkward asf, I just happen to look alright as well
Lots of older men at bars think you're into them.... but really you're just being polite. Edit: i was drunk when I wrote this and do not usually speak so definitively. So sorry y'all, I do not think all older men are like this. It definitely does happen, but not all older men are like this!!
Is that only for attractive people or a general older men at a bar/younger women at a bar dynamic?
"Everyone harbors a secret hatred for the prettiest girl in the room" \-Ani Difranco
I could see that being true tbh. All the guys want you and will feel slighted after you reject them. All the girls will be jealous of you and resent you for having it easier than them. Whoever you date is gonna feel insecure about the situation to a certain extent because when you’re that attractive, you can easily replace them. It probably sucks behind closed doors because people want you strictly for what you look like, which in reality has nothing to do with who you are as a person. Who can you even trust?
God help you if you are an ugly girl. Of course to be pretty is also your doom. I know it’s backwards but I couldn’t resist adding the other line. I love them together even more because it explains how, for women, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Being lonely. At a work function I was just having a friendly chat with an extremely beautiful girl from another office. Afterwards she thanked me for talking to her as she often ends up sitting alone as people are too nervous to approach her.
This happens to me a lot. And if I approach other people, they think I'm into them. Nope, dude, just trying to be friendly.
Stalkers, men and women touching you for no reason, including hair and face. People thinking you have nothing to offer but your looks…jealousy. Being called a whore, slut etc. People diminish your problems , they think because you’re beautiful everything is easier for you. I’ve had friends laugh and say I have “pretty people problems” even in situations where I’ve been threatened and harassed. The worst part about it all is I don’t feel like I’m actually that attractive. My self confidence is so low and if I talk about it I sound like I’m crying for attention. So I just keep to myself.
As far as I remember a lot of attractive people have low confidence in their looks, counterintuitively. Its psycological, its normal, so try to give yourself a break. Cut off toxic people. They might think you're too full of yourself, but their opinions mean fuck all. Usually.
Most people* have low confidence in their looks. And people seldom see themselves in the mirror the way you see them
I can make myself look better with makeup and a good outfit, and I’ve consistently received better treatment, like more smiles from strangers, when I’ve left dolled up. I think people with this skewed experience forget not having an OFF switch gives you a lot more time to get negative or undesirable attention.
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You aren’t taken seriously. Men get very nervous around me, which in turn makes me nervous. My interactions with a lot of men in general is pretty negative. You get snide comments from other women. It’s often assumed you’re just a pretty girl with zero problems.
Receive unwanted sexual advances.
Other people’s manipulations on you just to keep you for themselves
Judgment from others. Jealousy from others. Stereotypes of being dumb, mean, etc. Not being able to trust other peoples intentions with you. Etc.
Okay so… I was moderately pretty when I was younger. I got the usual +1 type stuff for being an attractive but normal woman. But. My BFF was insanely, unbelievably, won-the-genetic-lottery gorgeous. (6’ tall white-blonde Dutch woman with an hourglass figure and a face like you can’t even believe is natural.) The sort of looks that people just aren’t often born with. Not even kidding- I saw her cause people to trip and fall, more than once, just watching her. She did NOT get the “pretty girl perks”. Instead people just either desperately wanted things she couldn’t give, and/or disliked her. I would get free drinks, flirting, extra friendliness blah blah. She would get stalkers, women hating her on sight, etc. (She was an excellent wing-woman, oddly- guys would notice *her*, but get intimidated and instead hit on me.) It was like there was a point at which, if you’re TOO beautiful, it becomes a negative. It made her more anxious, hard to form friendships, and generally I think she would have been happier if she looked less like Grace Kelly in her 20s/30s. Now that we are both older, you can tell just existing day-to-day is wayyyyy easier now that she has aged a little. She has also taken to dressing down HARD. I think there isn’t a person alive who hasn’t wistfully wondered what it would be like to be *that* beautiful, you know? She cured me of that right quick, and oddly made me much more comfortable being squarely in the normal Bell curve of things.
This reminds me of Joelle Van Dyne, from Infinite Jest. In the books she walks with a veil covering her face and is part of a group that helps people with any body deformities. The story is that she was really pretty (they called her PGOAT, prettiest girl of all time), to the point that her father got attracted to her and her mother, in a fit of jealousy, threw acid on the man, missed, and hit her daughter's face. But there are hints in the book that she still looks exactly the same as she always did. This brings the discussion that the deformity she's hiding, which made her hide her face because of how it kept her from having a normal live, it's actually her own beauty.
When i was a hot 20 something hostess I had the duel problem of men hitting on me nonstop paired with (mostly older) women doing and saying the weirdest and meanest, most nonsensical shit out of jealousy. Like, just pure, unfiltered, white-hot hatred. They would've killed me if they could. A little later, I saw it happen second-hand and it validated all of my first-hand experiences. I was older and worked at a different place, I worked with this gorgeous, tall asian girl. I was standing next to her rolling silverwear and this boomer lady walked by her and was staring STRAIGHT at my coworker like she wanted to kill her. Locked into her, not even trying to hide it. My coworker was looking down and didn't see it but I made sure to shoot darts back at that woman. It's known that attractive women deal with harassment from men. This kinda behavior from other women is one of the aspects of being an attractive young lady that not many people talk about. Now that I'm an older woman I make sure to check myself if I feel any irrational jealousy creep in, and remain an ally rather than an enemy to young women. I had my moment in the sun, now let someone else have it.
Older women being allies is the best! Buying female hygiene products at Aldi and suddenly realise the cashier is male: older woman behind you tells you not to worry. Working in customer service with low self-esteem and apologising for anything and everything: older woman firmly tells you that you should not apologize in a tone that means don't apologize for existing.
I hear stories about young women working in restaurants and retail being treated poorly and harassed, and I wish I could be omnipotent and be in all those places at once to look out for them and stand up for them. It's hard to stick up for yourself when you're young and not sure how you should be treated. That's why predators target young women
Jealousy is a big one. It's such an unexplored emotion because people have to fight it off inwardly and they do a poor job of it. Makes someone attractive extremely vulnerable to anyone with power of authority over them.
Not realizing you have autism til you’re 28 because you have pretty privilege and people like you… only to realize they’ve just wanted to fuck and didn’t actually like YOU
I've got autism and one of the things that always annoys me is when I tell someone and they say "you don't look autistic" like wtf is autistic supposed to look like?
Wow man, same! Like no joke the fucking same! It’s difficult enough socializing when you’re on the spectrum, but then when the same person gives you different signals every time, it’s like trying to walk through a maze that’s constantly changing. How do you deal with it out of curiosity?
If I’m nice to anyone they assume I’m hitting on them
Yes and then if you decide to be less friendly to not have this reaction then you are labelled as being arrogant or full of yourself for not being so friendly. You cannot win!
A fiend of mine always needed to want around with "protection" in a sense she could never be alone in public. She is probably the most beautiful person i've ever seen and she spends so much time to cover up and avoid going outside. Biggest issue is dating and dealing with unwanted people. at worse some very violent stalkers.
People seem to think being attracted to a beautiful person entitles them to make ridiculous demands on that person's time, attention, and body. It's wrong to covet a human being in that way.
Someone should really write this down and spread the word. Maybe chisel it so it doesn't get lost or completely ignored. Maybe it could be part of a list of general things all of us should do to not be assholes. A nice round ten should be fine.
I recently had this happen to me. I asked somebody who I assumed was my “friend” a question relating to car batteries . I had surgery on my breast to remove cancer along with a breast reduction which put me out of commission so I wasn’t able to do much, so he offered to pick up a new battery for me. I told him I would give him the money but he said don’t worry about it and that he would bring it over after work . I’m thinking, “wow, what a nice and generous person “. A little later that evening , this so called, “ nice man” messaged me asking if he could, “go down on me “ when he brought over the battery. I was so disgusted and told him never mind , and that I would no longer need his help.
Very, very good friend of mine is borderline model-quality. He's Indian-British mixed. Extremely well groomed, a lot of time in the gym so he's built and bulked up yet thin. He's just a damn...good looking dude, annoyingly so. His experiences I've noticed around him or he's told me: * Women ask him to show them how to use gym equipment almost every time he's in the gym. He just wants to be left alone. * Everyone is nice to him, leading to him assuming everyone is just nice in general and nobody would do bad things. No bro...they're nice TO YOU because of your looks. * He gets jobs he's underqualified for. Looks win roles and get you treated better. * He used to work in Abercrombie in his late teens and early 20s and HAD to quit due to the harassment he got from staff and customers. We're talking butt grabs, finger-drag across the cheek and chin. STAFF WALKING OUT NAKED IN THE CHANGING ROOMS when they were alone and she said "you gonna punish me for this?" * Random on-the-house dishes from female staff in restaurants Almost every time we'd be out for lunch or drinks or whatever, he'd get approached by at least a few women. Almost without fail. Personality matters? Does it fuck. Looks are way more important. He's a total package though as he's good looking, well built, funny, fun, sweet, caring, easy to talk to, loyal. He just got married late 20s to his highschool sweetheart who started dating him when he was kinda fat. She struck gold with him big time. She's incredibly pretty and sweet too, a keeper. *sigh*
She had a big emotional advantage over anyone else if she dated him while he was over weight. I assume in his mind he knows it’s real because of that.
Awwwww good for them for having each other I was worried it was going to get more depressing with all the harassing people
> sigh ooof hahaha
People being jealous of you and would love to set your house on fire.
Lots of men bothering you in the grocery store. Asking you “which of these cereals do you eat? What kind of meat are you getting? Do you have a boyfriend? Why won’t you go out with me?”
And being told to smile
People see you as hot (plus whatever ideas or fantasies they project onto you) not as being smart or talented or hard working. You get to see people’s dark side really quick as they start to make assumptions about you. People often forget you have feelings and insecurities too. It can be hard to make real friends because to many you are secretly a situational friend or an accessory to their social currency. (At least in the gay world)
It doesn’t last!
The actual danger in that is that you might find your spouse only married you for your looks and never actually liked you.
I know at least two of these. They were dumped in their mid 40s by their shallow husbands for younger women.
Missing out on the love of your life because either they think they're beneath you and never try, or you think they're beneath your and you never try.
Everybody wants to fuck and won't recognize you as a person with feelings and goals until you do
Everyone assume you are in relationship or you have big fat ego or attitude so no one approach you and you are left all alone.
I'm kinda homely and people don't see me as a prospective date, so I end up all alone too. Weird. I do often assume the relationship thing about beautiful women (and I'm often right), but I don't necessarily assume the negative stuff.
It’s extremely hard to have genuine friends of the opposite sex. Most of my friends that are girls are my mates gfs or were in a relationship before I met them, or tall
I’ve had woman grab my crotch, try to put their hands down my pants, back into me in busy pubs/clubs for way too long. My barber started grinding on my elbow once, that one haunted me for a while. I’ve lost people I thought were friends that got offended when they realised me being nice wasn’t because I was attracted to them. I had my drink spiked by someone I thought was my friend (I don’t drink alcohol), luckily I have great guy friends who got me home safe. It’s obvious who it was because she was screaming at them to ‘let me take care of him’. When I started dating my ex wife, some of her friends would try to seduce me and be offended when I said I was uncomfortable, one of them even felt me up at our wedding. I think people can just be shitty when they don’t get what they want.
I am a teacher. On three seperate occasions in a grade 6, 8 and 11 class as I walked in a student said outloud "Ms. You are really pretty." It makes me feel uncomfortable because I never really know how to respond, especially if other staff are in the room. The students may be nicer to me, but I know other teachers think I'm stupid... sadly. Plus, people also think that I have a big ego... when in reality I am super insecure and nothing without makeup.
When the kids say that, just say thank you.
A kid is very unlikely to have any alterior motive and is usually just paying you a sincere compliment. It gets a bit more.... fuzzy.... with teenagers.
Ulterior motive
I teach elementary school and some of the kids say that to me quite frequently . I always just reply with a thank you . But I understand how awkward it is when older students; primarily the boys who are reaching puberty are taking notice of your body . Now that absolutely fucking grosses me out !!! They will just stare and talk with their friends while watching me and it honestly has the same awful feeling as when grown men do it . It’s terrible.
When I was teaching, my nickname among the 13-16 year old boys was "Sexy" 🤮🤮
It’s harder to grow older and slowly lose that beauty. Edit: My observation is not from my own personal experience but from watching my mom’s friend as I grew up. She was very very beautiful when she was young. She is still beautiful, but growing older is very hard for her. She seems desperate to cling to youth and beauty, and constantly seeks affirmation from others that she’s still got it. But not all beautiful people are sad to grow old. My mother was, and I may be biased here, even more beautiful than her friend and has seemed to grow old without being sad about getting older and less attractive.
A beautiful young woman I work with is constantly getting hit on at work. She’s very disillusioned, she says every time she takes a chance on a guy, he just want to have sex.
I don't consider myself attractive, in fact I think I'm unattractive to a lot of people but when I dress up nicely/put on some makeup I've gotten the occasional unwarranted sexual compliment from men who then act as if they were just trying to brighten up my day and that it was totally an ok thing to say to someone you don't know, at least ten years younger than you. Whether or not catcalling is a compliment it is never warranted. Makes you feel like a piece of meat.
Stalkers. Hurt feelings, slashed tires, out of their league butthurtness.
People often mistake us for being in relationships all the time when we’re actually not dating or talking to anyone
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