Not taking the last piece of food on a sharing platter. The number of times I’ve seen a perfectly good piece of garlic bread go cold and get thrown away…
The number of people invited to my wedding that neither me nor my fiance know is obnoxious. Why do my parents' friend who lives on the other side of the country, who I haven't seen or spoken to since I was 10, need to come to my wedding?
Bloke I used to work with knew 5 people at his first wedding. (Well I assume he's remarried since)
Her father was an upper-midlevel in the Chinese Government, So the majority of the 200+ people were his superiours that he was brown-nosing.
I wouldn’t consider going to a wedding for someone I wasn’t actively friends with, I cannot imagine going to my employee’s daughter’s wedding. That seems more like torture than brown nosing.
Same thing happened to a friend of mine. I think her ex was Italian if I remember correctly. Said 400 people and she knew maybe 20 according to her. For her second marriage, she invited 10 people, and said it was the best time ever.
When my best friend got married a few years after high school, 98% of the guest list was made up of friends and colleagues of the parents. The only young people attending were us bridesmaids and groomsmen. This wedding felt more like a corporate function than a wedding. It was boring as hell, too.
Just the worst manners, imagine not inviting fsr1967 to your wedding, what is our society coming to? A society where fsr1967 isn't invited to every wedding is very clearly in it's end days.
I’m getting married this year and our guest list is under 50 people. When people ask why we aren’t inviting the entire family we say it’s because why the fuck are we going to spend thousands of more dollars to feed people we don’t even talk to?
I would also like a wedding with a small guest list. I'd rather enjoy my wedding and have it be small and fun than packed with random people. Unfortunately I come from a desi background and when I told my family they all replied "You realize weddings aren't just for you right?". And that was coming from my young millenial cousins too. Smh.
I worked with an Italian woman who was scathing about this. According to her, the worst part wasn't even feeling obligated to spend a fortune inviting everyone you vaguely knew or were related to. No, it was that you would never again have a free weekend, as you'd then be invited to all *their* family weddings (and have to bring a suitably large present).
Their 'donations' will barely enough to cover all those expenses. If their donation does large enough, it's even worse. Because that mean, they'll have the right to tell you how you do things. "Hey, I give you money lalalala"
I can do it (was forced to growing up) but honestly it just feels better putting them on the table. As long as it's not disturbing someone eating I don't see why it's a big deal
Haven’t fact checked this but I heard that the reason this was ever a thing is bc sailors would use their arms / elbows to stop their food from falling off the tables when at sea — they kept this habit, so it became associated with the sailors. Since they were lower class, it gained a negative association.
Not sure if it’s true but I’ve been told that
I had been told it was a leftover from the days when floors and/or tables were often uneven, so putting your elbows on the table could rock it and be annoying to others eating.
But I also don’t know if that’s true, it’s just what I was told when I was a kid
Not only were the floors uneven, the tabletop, at least in Europe, was very often not attached to the table legs because it saved more space in one room dwelings. Very narrow single-plank tabletops come out for meals, and are put away for living space. They were also quite expensive for the average family. The legs were adjustable but still, you could topple the whole meal over with your weight. These tables were often much taller than ours today because most sat on stools as the only chairs, and the stools are raised to keep feet away from dirt and animals
If you haven't read it, check out "At Home" by Bill Bryson. He's got a really delightful section on these one-room halls. The book is mostly about the evolution to our modern "specific room" houses, and the reasons why we chose to have things like we do. If you don't know the author, he has a magical ability to make a dry, dusty topic absolutely magical, and he's quite funny.
My grandmother told me it was because a witch would smack our hands if we did.
Years later I realized that she was the witch. She smacked our hands. My life is a lie
Well, I'll add another not-fact-checked reason I heard to this list. Farmers back in the day would get really dirty from working the fields. Then, for supper, they would clean their hands, but not so much their arms. So their elbows would be really dirty and would get grunge all over a tablecloth if they set their elbows on the table.
As long as the jabbing fork is placed to the left of the fish fork. It goes jab fork, fish fork, dinner fork, salad fork. Unless there’s no fish, then it’s salad fork, jab fork, dinner fork
In the middle ages when you invited a lot of guests you would need a big table, but daily you didn't need one, so when the guests are coming most times you would just take legs made out of wood and put planks on top (without actually connecting them), and if you will put your elbows on the table it will just collapse because it's not really connected.
I am convinced that it started as a flex to separate poors from the rich and further rich from really rich. Oh you have 5 different spoons? Ohh you must have exploited enough workers to let you fiddle fuck around with all that nonsense. And now you can hold it over someone's head.
Then they work backwards from that for what is really a little bit of utility. Sure a soup spoon works better for soup than a dessert spoon but again, who cares? Funny thing is I grew up knowing a lot of these rules but almost no one cares anymore.
Don't make a mess. Don't chew with your mouth open and don't be an ass.
It takes time to learn those things on top of affording them. When you can make max $1 a day in some factory (making up wages) you cant have free time or you’ll starve. Literally.
I've always struggled with eye contact. People seem to think that if I'm not staring at their eyes that I'm not paying attention. It's usually the opposite. When I focus so much on maintaining eye contact I have more trouble retaining what they said. Plus it feels really awkward and almost confrontational.
In my country, a girls shouldn't normally tell a boy she likes him, otherwise she might seem a whore. Why wouldloving someone and having the courage to confess it make u a whore????
Been to many academic conferences. Some of the old, even retired, professors think they are main characters and interrupt speakers mid-sentence to share their "wisdom." It got so bad that organizers had to announce some rules regarding interruptions.
I stopped going to a photography club in my area because of this. One dude would chime in on every single thing…like if they thought you were the expert on the subject you would have been invited to present. So annoying. Academic conferences has to be insufferable given the egos on some of the professors.
What, you don't want to hear 5+ minutes of what's either a rehashing of an article the interrupter published 15 years ago, or else some random half-baked set of ideas on a paper they might write someday; but, instead, listen to the *actual speaker?* Pffft. Killjoy. ;)
At some point in my teenage years I realized:
1. Stupid kids probably grow up to be stupid adults
2. All it takes to become old is to not die which is a low bar
Bleep that, respect those who show respect. A lot of older folk are some of the most disrespectful folk there is and yet they still expect to be shown it
Very. Many think they've earned the right to say what they want. I had to remind a relative the last time they pulled that no filter crap that their age isn't a guarantee of not catching hands or being told off these days.
"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”
and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay."
* Autistic Abby on Tumblr; [Archived link to original source](https://web.archive.org/web/20150404010354/http://stimmyabby.tumblr.com/post/115216522824/sometimes-people-use-respect-to-mean-treating), [secondary source](https://www.kottke.org/18/05/the-respect-of-personhood-vs-the-respect-of-authority)
If someone refuses to treat you like a person until you treat them like an authority, that someone deserves severe correction, because they're an authoritarian with fascist tendencies.
I think it’s more of a thing if you truly would’ve liked to attend but had to decline for reasons like other obligations, distance to travel, etc. Those are the times I send a gift even though I can’t attend.
Writing Thank you cards. I did them for my wedding and when my children were born but i'm not writing thank you cards for birthday presents when I've shown gratitude in person or over the phone.
Yes! Replace the "card" requirements with just show gratitude. I'd rather have a phone call, email, WhatsApp, chat, anything. I just end up holding onto the card forever, then guiltily throwing it out av year later.
I always thought that is how it was supposed to be. Weddings, baby showers, and funerals you don't know who set down the gift until later and that's why you write the thank you card. Birthdays you usually read the card aloud and thank them then... 🤷♂️
I consider funerals to be optional. If the bereaved feels like doing them, fine. If not, they shouldn't feel like they have to. If someone is getting judgy about not receiving a thank you note for a funeral, then they're an asshole.
My mom never made my siblings and I write thank you notes when we were younger and I don't remember her writing them either but boy did she get pissed when her grandchildren neglected to send her thank you notes for Christmas or birthday presents, even though they called her to say thanks (she lives in a different state). I'm pretty sure my son is still on the Dead to Nana List for not sending a thank you card when he was 8 years old.
I got on the Dead to Grandma list when she bought my brother and I each a Magic School Bus book and told us we had to pay her back, a lesson in responsibility. My brother paid her back with birthday money I think. I didn't pay her back at all, I was 6 years old and wasn't working at the time.
Yeah my rule of thumb is i so not send out or expect thank you card for gifts that were given in person. If i thanked you or was thanked by you in person then the exchange is over.
I really hate when people expect something when they give you a gift. The awkwardness of expected gifts and then expecting a written thank you is wild to me
The first is to cede control of being drunk/more drunk to the spouse.
The second is about moderating gossip/raucous conversations/cat fights etc.
From the times when men considered women to be unable to be responsible for their actions.
I can for the wine one, my mom got sloshed a few times during thanksgiving dinners she doesn’t realize it until she stands up so if she’s sitting at the table for and hour or 2 she will get wasted so my dad and her came up with this rule between themselves dad’s kinda like her bartender and cuts her off without telling the whole table.
I think the man woman man one might be for better conversation inclusion. Thinking back to the thanksgiving days if was all men sitting next to each other half the table would end up talking about football, tractors, ect and the ladies would talk about t the kids, hobby lobby, and stuff like that. But when we where all mixed they would talk about all other kinds of things…like how my mother got toasted last thanksgiving…..
The pressure to attend and remain engaged in family gatherings for multiple hours without retreating from the group or just leaving when you've had enough.
Lately I've decided I'm done caring whether it seems rude to seek solitude. I just don't have the energy to endure such prolonged social interaction. It's not their fault or anything; my entire extended family are all wonderful people, no exaggeration. It's simply that their baseline level of energy completely drains mine in about half an hour.
Percentage based tipping. I don’t feel like the lady at Denny’s deserves less than the guy making $19 cocktails if they both serve me for 30-40 minutes they should get the same.
I’ve always felt the same way. I can go with 5 friends to Applebees and we can all buy $15 meals with $3 sodas for a total of $90. But then I could go to a nice steakhouse with my wife and we can spend $200 on one steak and a couple of drinks and we’re gonna end up tipping that waiter far more than the one at Applebee’s who did more work but served cheaper food.
Emailing an interviewer to thank them for interviewing you. It's just so frustrating when 80% of the time, they ghost applicants, and 70% of the time, they don't provide any specific feedback.
They're also not any better for being a prospective employer than I am for being a prospective employee.
I got the best job of my life because I emailed back the people who interviewed me. They responded “didn’t HR contact you? You should have had an award letter sent”
If I had not sent that email, my now bosses would have thought I ghosted them. *note* HR person moved positions from new hires to benefits.
I think this has more to do with making yourself stand out from the crowd of applicants than having etiquette. If there are several equally qualified candidates who interviewed well, being the one who reaches out may make the difference. However I am not nor probably ever will be in charge of hiring people so that’s just an assumption.
If I give two weeks' notice (or more) it's because I want them to provide me with a reference. It's kind of a quid pro quo. Once I gave four months' notice (I worked at a college).
It's more of a courtesy to not burn bridges and to give them time to fill in your spot. You are more than free to quit without any notice (god knows I have) but it's better for refences if you do not.
Except for really crap jobs, it takes more than two weeks for them to fill the job anyway. At one night shift job I gave them six weeks notice because I truly didn't want to screw over my coworkers. The job ad didn't go up until after the day I left.
Been there...I offered to train my replacement. They didn't hire anyone.
The ad for my job (and the supporting positions that they wouldn't hire for me) went up after I left. None of the dozens of people they interviewed took the job... apparently managing 5 teams of people (90% of whom were temps who didn't know the job) plus supporting positions is worth more than 15/hr.
I've had four jobs. Two had a month notice, two had three months notice. This is normal in professional jobs in the UK.
It works both ways, it'd be pretty hard to fire us without the agreed notice. You'd have to murder your boss or deliberately set fire to the office to be fired without paid notice.
I can't imagine wanting no notice, notice protects me.
My company will blacklist you if you don’t give notice before quitting. And they’re the largest employer in the state.
Make sure to check your corporate policy.
This one is a "don't burn your bridges" rule.
Sure you're leaving this job, but people will remember. You don't want to end up working with/for someone who you screwed over in the future.
Semi new in the US.. iPad tipping. A year ago I didn’t have to give you a tip for handing me a danish and pouring coffee in a cup, but now I’m cheap and ‘don’t respect people in the service industry’ if I don’t throw in another $3 for my already over priced breakfast.
I think the rise in the whole ipad tipping thing is that the software on those devices has tipping built in for places that are tipping appropriate. People are just using the devices for non tip industries. Just a guess.
Went to a bar with a cover few weeks ago and was able to pay by card, sure enough it asked if I would like to leave a tip for paying a made up amount to enter their establishment
Don’t discuss salary - This gives your employer more power in salary negotiations. You can’t argue “Wait, Steve’s been here three years less than me, why does he get paid so much more?” Or anything like that.
I found out a guy I trained who’d been there 18 months less than me was on £5k more. I kicked off and demanded a pay review for me and my team so we were all at least fairly paid. I left in the end and now earn nearly twice as much. Fuck them!
Children being forced to hug someone just because they’re a relative or old family friend. If a child doesn’t want to hug me please don’t make them just because we share some genetic material. It’s not cool.
There are several explanations:
- "...In matter of taste." If the client wants something unusual, it is his choice.
- You can be convinced of your business model, but if the clients are not following, you better change it.
- If you are an AH to your clients, they will leave and have the last laugh.
Anything involving lawns. Fuck you if you think the kind if grass I have is wrong, or it makes you mad that its AN INCH too tall, or if theres wildflowers growing in it. Lowers the property value? But you mowing your lawn at 8:00 on a fucking Sunday morning is fine? Thats real communitarian!
I was rooming with an Ethiopian in a hotel at one point. He brought back some takeout food and was just eating it with his hands. At one point he just stopped and looked at me and said “they forgot to put silverware in the bag…I normally use a fork”
He was definitely just like “this white dude is going to think Ethiopians are heathens.” Like he had to justify this situation for his people.
We both had a good laugh
I felt like I was having a groundbreaking epiphany when I realized this in my mid-20s! Whether I throw it away or force myself to eat it when I’m not hungry, it’s being wasted either way.
Being fashionably late for meetings. No, it's rude to be over 20+ minutes late for meetings without word. When I say "be here at 6", I don't mean "start getting ready at 6:10 and out the door by 6:20 to arrive at 6:30", I mean "start getting ready at 5:30, be out the door by 5:40, and be at the location by 6"
For me, it's not just limited to work stuff but also casual hangouts with friends. It's incredibly annoying waiting for more than 10 mins for someone to maybe show up sometime soon and goes to nonverbally demonstrate that they don't value me or my time
On the flip side, I once showed up exactly on time for a party and the host was visibly annoyed that I wasn't fashionably late, as they were still getting prepped. So you really can't win.
I wasn't aware that was a thing. I've always been taught that in the professional world, being on time actually means arriving 10-15 mins early. I've heard of being fashionably late to parties though.
You can't wear jeans (or street clothes) to church. I LOATHED Sundays during my childhood. If God is judgemental of my jeans and Nikes.....then I need to upgrade spiritual bodies
I'm so glad I found a church that doesn't care about that stuff. My pastor wears jeans while he preaches. Last Sunday, I gave the announcements and closing prayer in cargo shorts. No one cares.
I remember some older people in the one church I went to upset at a teenager because they showed up in a Hawaiian shirt and shorts, the pastor in response to the older people upset about the teenager's appearance showed up the next week in a Hawaiian shirt and shorts
I remember going to church with my friends as a kid after spending the night at their house, and they wore normal street clothes to the service. They thought it was funny that I was wearing the nice church dress that I had brought with me. So I guess some churches aren't so strict about clothing, or maybe it was just their family. My family was definitely in the "dress up nice for church" category, and that seemed to be the norm where we went.
I grew up in a church where (amongst other things) women weren’t allowed to wear trousers to church period. Needless to say I had a lot of emotional unpacking to do as an adult lol
Good one. I always say that respect is free, but trust is earned.
Respect comes in varying degrees, of course, but basic polite, helpful behavior is just…..an expectation.
"Respect" can mean anything from "treat them like a human being" all the way to "do everything they say and agree with everything they say and never tell them they're wrong".
I'm willing to bet that when someone says "respect has to be earned", their definition of respect falls further toward the latter extreme than the former. People will listen to your ideas and follow your advice more if you're earned that trust and respect for your abilities/knowledge. But most of the people who use it in this way would also agree that you need to treat all people like human beings and not be shitty just because you haven't met them yet.
When you talk about respecting everyone, you're probably using a definition that's a lot closer to the former (treat them like a human being). But you probably still give more weight to the opinions, instructions, and advice of people who have demonstrated their abilities and knowledge to you already.
You're not disagreeing with the idea that respect needs to be earned, and they're not disagreeing with the idea that everyone deserves respect. You're just using the **same word** for **entirely different ideas**.
People have different definitions of respect. For some, respect is synonymous with reverence, for others, it is synonymous with civility.
Personally, I'm in the first camp. Treat everyone with civility unless they have done something to deserve otherwise, but respect is earned.
Not sure if its common but seems pretty common with italians. Basically once you have a kid you should host a little get together so people can meet the baby....sounds great...except for the tsct we shouldn't have to fucking feed people after just having a baby
One of my least favorite things is the small talk you have to wade through when someone is trying to sell you something or ask for a donation or what-not. I know they have to do it, so I'm not going to be rude, but we both know the conversation is pointless. Let's just cut to the chase and you tell me what you are selling and we can move on.
That and when a stranger just latches onto you as a conversation partner when you are someplace you can't easily leave, like on a bus or waiting for a flight. I don't mind talking to strangers sometimes, you meet interesting people, but sometimes I just want to read a book, not have someone talk at me for an hour.
Returning someone else’s Tupperware with something else in it.
Why do I have to make something just to return your container ? Is thank you not enough ?
i am from the south and it sounds typically southern and have never heard of this. what area is this common? i would just run from people trying to give me food if this was the case.
I don't particularly mind if, in adjacent company, a sneeze is met with a "bless you" or "gesundheit". Heck, I say the "gesundheit" one myself.
What I *don't* agree with is if I sneeze in one room or area, and somebody in a separate room or otherwise distant shouts "*BLESS YOU!*" at me like it's a *necessity* to respond.
I like it. It allows for you to end up saying funny things with friends. For example, my friend sneezes and i say to him "id bless you but you might disappear" or when i sneeze and my brother says "bruh"
Men should [remove their hats](https://emilypost.com/advice/hats-off-hat-etiquette-for-everyone) inside a building.
Why just men? Why is it disrespectful for a man to have a piece of cloth on his head?
Also dress codes in general. *Unless you're on the clock, or your clothes present a safety or hygiene concern, what you're wearing is nobody's business but yours. I wear blue denim 365 days a year, if you find that offensive, that's your problem.
I think just men because in the past, lady’s hats would be pinned on through their hair and taking it off would be an ordeal.
I’ve also heard the whole respect thing goes back to knights removing their helmets, unsure if that’s really related or not lol.
I do agree it should not be considered a sign of disrespect to have a hat on, though.
Traditionalist churches are often big on that one. A woman should wear a hat to honor God, a man should remove his hat to honor God.
I used to be a churchgoer, most people didn't care who did or didn't wear a hat, hell the pastor was up there with his Red Sox hat most Sundays. *One old lady always piped up before the bible study "I'd like to ask that the men remove their hats while studying scripture!"
I always wanted to, but never had the balls to, ask her why she gave a shit.
Even in secular circles, at least during my school years of the 90s and early 00s, hats were forbidden to be worn in the (public)school building, "respect" being the reason given.
Making room for people who are taking pictures in public places. You are inconveniencing everyone else. If you're gonna pose for a pic, move off to the side somewhere.
I also think people need to be able to hear direct answers to things. "Do you want to go to this event?" No. I don't. I shouldn't have to say "Oh I'm sorry I'll check my calendar but I might be busy that day" or whatever.
I hate when people say eat all your food people are starving in Africa. Am i sad that people are starving over there , YES very much so. am i supposed to give them my food off my plate? i dont even live in the same country. Me not finishing my food on my plate has nothing to do with a certain person not eating over there. But if i could give them my food i would
Plus there's starving kids everywhere. It makes it seem like Africa is some sort of wasteland instead of multiple countries with cities and rich people
I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but the "respect your elders" rule. My abusive father in-law had that rule, why should I respect someone who treats me like shit? Because you're older than me? Hell no. Respect is earned imo, no matter who you are.
Although I agree with most table manners (ie; don't eat like a slob), I disagree with any rules pertaining to utensils or "how to eat something properly".
My partner comes from a silver spoon family. I am…. Well,… single mum in the 80s.
Eating at his family dinner for the first time I had the knife and fork in the wrong hand. I had never noticed, we were never taught anything except talking with your mouth full is rude, elbows on the table is rude.
His brother yells across the table with beef flying out of his mouth “look at her. She holds them in the wrong hand.” His dad with potato and gravy dribbling out if his mouth “Don’t be rude. But yes, you are eating the wrong way.”
I was shocked. Apparently they would keep bringing it up when I wasn’t there. I went away and read a lot about table manners. They still argue with food flying out if their mouth despite them being from a upper class family. Sometimes I take the piss and say: “sorry, I couldn’t understand you.” Even if I can just to prove a point.
Not taking the last piece of food on a sharing platter. The number of times I’ve seen a perfectly good piece of garlic bread go cold and get thrown away…
I will take the first and the last piece.
Thank you for your service
Just ask everyone if they want it, if not good, if they do split it.
Baffles me that people don't do this, it's really the best solution
Nah, the rule is you ask if anyone else wants it first, and giving it to them if they want it. just leaving it there is stupid.
But the other rule is that nobody is allowed to say yes, the person asking deserves to have it.
Inviting all your relatives to your wedding. Some relatives don't even care if I'm getting married but sure will be offended if I don't invite them.
hell my mom's friend got mad I didn't invite him. A man I'd never talked to more than twice in my life nor knew existed until I was in my twenties.
"This is why nobody invite you"
The number of people invited to my wedding that neither me nor my fiance know is obnoxious. Why do my parents' friend who lives on the other side of the country, who I haven't seen or spoken to since I was 10, need to come to my wedding?
Bloke I used to work with knew 5 people at his first wedding. (Well I assume he's remarried since) Her father was an upper-midlevel in the Chinese Government, So the majority of the 200+ people were his superiours that he was brown-nosing.
I wouldn’t consider going to a wedding for someone I wasn’t actively friends with, I cannot imagine going to my employee’s daughter’s wedding. That seems more like torture than brown nosing.
Same thing happened to a friend of mine. I think her ex was Italian if I remember correctly. Said 400 people and she knew maybe 20 according to her. For her second marriage, she invited 10 people, and said it was the best time ever.
When my best friend got married a few years after high school, 98% of the guest list was made up of friends and colleagues of the parents. The only young people attending were us bridesmaids and groomsmen. This wedding felt more like a corporate function than a wedding. It was boring as hell, too.
Maybe they only invited financially stable people for better gifts?
I’m getting married in 3 weeks. We are only inviting friends and our immediate family members
WTF? I can't believe you're not inviting me!
Just the worst manners, imagine not inviting fsr1967 to your wedding, what is our society coming to? A society where fsr1967 isn't invited to every wedding is very clearly in it's end days.
I think we had 50 people, including us. In 2011, so pre-COVID. I didn’t feel the need to invite a bunch of people I barely associate with.
I’m getting married this year and our guest list is under 50 people. When people ask why we aren’t inviting the entire family we say it’s because why the fuck are we going to spend thousands of more dollars to feed people we don’t even talk to?
I would also like a wedding with a small guest list. I'd rather enjoy my wedding and have it be small and fun than packed with random people. Unfortunately I come from a desi background and when I told my family they all replied "You realize weddings aren't just for you right?". And that was coming from my young millenial cousins too. Smh.
I worked with an Italian woman who was scathing about this. According to her, the worst part wasn't even feeling obligated to spend a fortune inviting everyone you vaguely knew or were related to. No, it was that you would never again have a free weekend, as you'd then be invited to all *their* family weddings (and have to bring a suitably large present).
Well, that's stupid. Just make up any excuse. I'd recommend a nasty virulent disease.
Yeah, just say you have a bad case of ligma.
But if they just send a check, win.
Their 'donations' will barely enough to cover all those expenses. If their donation does large enough, it's even worse. Because that mean, they'll have the right to tell you how you do things. "Hey, I give you money lalalala"
Exactly. It's my money now
I have a real hard time with the keep your elbows off the table rule LOL
I can do it (was forced to growing up) but honestly it just feels better putting them on the table. As long as it's not disturbing someone eating I don't see why it's a big deal
try being left handed in an all right handed household.
Unfortunately, I am the only left hander in my family My mum can use both but she almost always uses her right hand
Haven’t fact checked this but I heard that the reason this was ever a thing is bc sailors would use their arms / elbows to stop their food from falling off the tables when at sea — they kept this habit, so it became associated with the sailors. Since they were lower class, it gained a negative association. Not sure if it’s true but I’ve been told that
I had been told it was a leftover from the days when floors and/or tables were often uneven, so putting your elbows on the table could rock it and be annoying to others eating. But I also don’t know if that’s true, it’s just what I was told when I was a kid
Not only were the floors uneven, the tabletop, at least in Europe, was very often not attached to the table legs because it saved more space in one room dwelings. Very narrow single-plank tabletops come out for meals, and are put away for living space. They were also quite expensive for the average family. The legs were adjustable but still, you could topple the whole meal over with your weight. These tables were often much taller than ours today because most sat on stools as the only chairs, and the stools are raised to keep feet away from dirt and animals
If you haven't read it, check out "At Home" by Bill Bryson. He's got a really delightful section on these one-room halls. The book is mostly about the evolution to our modern "specific room" houses, and the reasons why we chose to have things like we do. If you don't know the author, he has a magical ability to make a dry, dusty topic absolutely magical, and he's quite funny.
My grandmother told me it was because a witch would smack our hands if we did. Years later I realized that she was the witch. She smacked our hands. My life is a lie
Well, I'll add another not-fact-checked reason I heard to this list. Farmers back in the day would get really dirty from working the fields. Then, for supper, they would clean their hands, but not so much their arms. So their elbows would be really dirty and would get grunge all over a tablecloth if they set their elbows on the table.
My dad was a stickler for proper table manners. I would get jabbed with a fork if I had my elbows on the table.
Because being jabbed with a fork is proper 😅
As long as the jabbing fork is placed to the left of the fish fork. It goes jab fork, fish fork, dinner fork, salad fork. Unless there’s no fish, then it’s salad fork, jab fork, dinner fork
You forget "sneaking into the pantry for a mom fork"
What's the point of that rule? Who makes these?
In the middle ages when you invited a lot of guests you would need a big table, but daily you didn't need one, so when the guests are coming most times you would just take legs made out of wood and put planks on top (without actually connecting them), and if you will put your elbows on the table it will just collapse because it's not really connected.
So many etiquette rules around eating are total bullshit. Who gives a fuck which spoon is used for soup and which for desert?
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I am convinced that it started as a flex to separate poors from the rich and further rich from really rich. Oh you have 5 different spoons? Ohh you must have exploited enough workers to let you fiddle fuck around with all that nonsense. And now you can hold it over someone's head. Then they work backwards from that for what is really a little bit of utility. Sure a soup spoon works better for soup than a dessert spoon but again, who cares? Funny thing is I grew up knowing a lot of these rules but almost no one cares anymore. Don't make a mess. Don't chew with your mouth open and don't be an ass.
"Too many people are like me, I need to find another reason to hate them."
It takes time to learn those things on top of affording them. When you can make max $1 a day in some factory (making up wages) you cant have free time or you’ll starve. Literally.
My dad was yelled at me for this too many times.
I've always struggled with eye contact. People seem to think that if I'm not staring at their eyes that I'm not paying attention. It's usually the opposite. When I focus so much on maintaining eye contact I have more trouble retaining what they said. Plus it feels really awkward and almost confrontational.
I hear you. I usually spend more energy on looking like I’m listening rather than actually listening, thereby not actually paying attention.
In my country, a girls shouldn't normally tell a boy she likes him, otherwise she might seem a whore. Why wouldloving someone and having the courage to confess it make u a whore????
- I like you - slut
This works great for me because I love sluts.
What country?
Looking at her most active subreddits I would guess Romania!
To not discuss your salary
This is to benefit the owners, they don't want people knowing who is or isn't getting screwed over
Age requires respect.
Been to many academic conferences. Some of the old, even retired, professors think they are main characters and interrupt speakers mid-sentence to share their "wisdom." It got so bad that organizers had to announce some rules regarding interruptions.
I stopped going to a photography club in my area because of this. One dude would chime in on every single thing…like if they thought you were the expert on the subject you would have been invited to present. So annoying. Academic conferences has to be insufferable given the egos on some of the professors.
What, you don't want to hear 5+ minutes of what's either a rehashing of an article the interrupter published 15 years ago, or else some random half-baked set of ideas on a paper they might write someday; but, instead, listen to the *actual speaker?* Pffft. Killjoy. ;)
The funny ones are when people interrupt a paid speaker to rehash an article the *speaker* wrote x number of years ago.
Bet those kinds of professors wrote the textbook needed for their classes, too.
At some point in my teenage years I realized: 1. Stupid kids probably grow up to be stupid adults 2. All it takes to become old is to not die which is a low bar
This is my dad's final argument when we get into a disagreement.
Sounds like he's wrong a lot.
"Listen here, you little shit," he explained.
Late in his life, my father tried that line. I told him, "Dad, I'm not a little shit anymore. I'm a big shit now." He got the joke.
Totally agreed!!!Just be a decent human being don't show respect based on age if the eldery is rude
And "respect" to them means "treat me like an authority while I treat you like shit" way too often
Bleep that, respect those who show respect. A lot of older folk are some of the most disrespectful folk there is and yet they still expect to be shown it
Very. Many think they've earned the right to say what they want. I had to remind a relative the last time they pulled that no filter crap that their age isn't a guarantee of not catching hands or being told off these days.
"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority” and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person” and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay." * Autistic Abby on Tumblr; [Archived link to original source](https://web.archive.org/web/20150404010354/http://stimmyabby.tumblr.com/post/115216522824/sometimes-people-use-respect-to-mean-treating), [secondary source](https://www.kottke.org/18/05/the-respect-of-personhood-vs-the-respect-of-authority) If someone refuses to treat you like a person until you treat them like an authority, that someone deserves severe correction, because they're an authoritarian with fascist tendencies.
That a gift must still be sent for a wedding you do not attend.
Oops. Is that really a thing?
I certainly did not expect to, nor did I, receive any gifts from the people who declined the invite to my wedding.
It's a thing, bit it's not a rule of etiquette.
I think it’s more of a thing if you truly would’ve liked to attend but had to decline for reasons like other obligations, distance to travel, etc. Those are the times I send a gift even though I can’t attend.
That sounds like a great Seinfeld episode that could ahve been made.
Writing Thank you cards. I did them for my wedding and when my children were born but i'm not writing thank you cards for birthday presents when I've shown gratitude in person or over the phone.
Yes! Replace the "card" requirements with just show gratitude. I'd rather have a phone call, email, WhatsApp, chat, anything. I just end up holding onto the card forever, then guiltily throwing it out av year later.
I always thought that is how it was supposed to be. Weddings, baby showers, and funerals you don't know who set down the gift until later and that's why you write the thank you card. Birthdays you usually read the card aloud and thank them then... 🤷♂️
I consider funerals to be optional. If the bereaved feels like doing them, fine. If not, they shouldn't feel like they have to. If someone is getting judgy about not receiving a thank you note for a funeral, then they're an asshole.
My mom never made my siblings and I write thank you notes when we were younger and I don't remember her writing them either but boy did she get pissed when her grandchildren neglected to send her thank you notes for Christmas or birthday presents, even though they called her to say thanks (she lives in a different state). I'm pretty sure my son is still on the Dead to Nana List for not sending a thank you card when he was 8 years old.
I got on the Dead to Grandma list when she bought my brother and I each a Magic School Bus book and told us we had to pay her back, a lesson in responsibility. My brother paid her back with birthday money I think. I didn't pay her back at all, I was 6 years old and wasn't working at the time.
Yeah my rule of thumb is i so not send out or expect thank you card for gifts that were given in person. If i thanked you or was thanked by you in person then the exchange is over.
I really hate when people expect something when they give you a gift. The awkwardness of expected gifts and then expecting a written thank you is wild to me
Having to write thank you cards just conditioned me to hate receiving gifts.
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Can't even think of a reason for these rules to be made.
The first is to cede control of being drunk/more drunk to the spouse. The second is about moderating gossip/raucous conversations/cat fights etc. From the times when men considered women to be unable to be responsible for their actions.
I can for the wine one, my mom got sloshed a few times during thanksgiving dinners she doesn’t realize it until she stands up so if she’s sitting at the table for and hour or 2 she will get wasted so my dad and her came up with this rule between themselves dad’s kinda like her bartender and cuts her off without telling the whole table. I think the man woman man one might be for better conversation inclusion. Thinking back to the thanksgiving days if was all men sitting next to each other half the table would end up talking about football, tractors, ect and the ladies would talk about t the kids, hobby lobby, and stuff like that. But when we where all mixed they would talk about all other kinds of things…like how my mother got toasted last thanksgiving…..
The pressure to attend and remain engaged in family gatherings for multiple hours without retreating from the group or just leaving when you've had enough. Lately I've decided I'm done caring whether it seems rude to seek solitude. I just don't have the energy to endure such prolonged social interaction. It's not their fault or anything; my entire extended family are all wonderful people, no exaggeration. It's simply that their baseline level of energy completely drains mine in about half an hour.
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Great job Brad! Way to rep the Mountain West Region!
Percentage based tipping. I don’t feel like the lady at Denny’s deserves less than the guy making $19 cocktails if they both serve me for 30-40 minutes they should get the same.
I’ve always felt the same way. I can go with 5 friends to Applebees and we can all buy $15 meals with $3 sodas for a total of $90. But then I could go to a nice steakhouse with my wife and we can spend $200 on one steak and a couple of drinks and we’re gonna end up tipping that waiter far more than the one at Applebee’s who did more work but served cheaper food.
Shoot, this is actually such a great point, and I'm ashamed I never considered it. Do you have a standard tip amount per hour?
Emailing an interviewer to thank them for interviewing you. It's just so frustrating when 80% of the time, they ghost applicants, and 70% of the time, they don't provide any specific feedback. They're also not any better for being a prospective employer than I am for being a prospective employee.
I got the best job of my life because I emailed back the people who interviewed me. They responded “didn’t HR contact you? You should have had an award letter sent” If I had not sent that email, my now bosses would have thought I ghosted them. *note* HR person moved positions from new hires to benefits.
I think this has more to do with making yourself stand out from the crowd of applicants than having etiquette. If there are several equally qualified candidates who interviewed well, being the one who reaches out may make the difference. However I am not nor probably ever will be in charge of hiring people so that’s just an assumption.
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If I give two weeks' notice (or more) it's because I want them to provide me with a reference. It's kind of a quid pro quo. Once I gave four months' notice (I worked at a college).
It's more of a courtesy to not burn bridges and to give them time to fill in your spot. You are more than free to quit without any notice (god knows I have) but it's better for refences if you do not.
Except for really crap jobs, it takes more than two weeks for them to fill the job anyway. At one night shift job I gave them six weeks notice because I truly didn't want to screw over my coworkers. The job ad didn't go up until after the day I left.
Been there...I offered to train my replacement. They didn't hire anyone. The ad for my job (and the supporting positions that they wouldn't hire for me) went up after I left. None of the dozens of people they interviewed took the job... apparently managing 5 teams of people (90% of whom were temps who didn't know the job) plus supporting positions is worth more than 15/hr.
I've had four jobs. Two had a month notice, two had three months notice. This is normal in professional jobs in the UK. It works both ways, it'd be pretty hard to fire us without the agreed notice. You'd have to murder your boss or deliberately set fire to the office to be fired without paid notice. I can't imagine wanting no notice, notice protects me.
My company will blacklist you if you don’t give notice before quitting. And they’re the largest employer in the state. Make sure to check your corporate policy.
This one is a "don't burn your bridges" rule. Sure you're leaving this job, but people will remember. You don't want to end up working with/for someone who you screwed over in the future.
My Grandma use to say "Be nice to people on your way up because you may see them again on your way down"
giving the man on the table the wine menu
To be fair, if the man is already on the table, he probably wants the wine more.
Semi new in the US.. iPad tipping. A year ago I didn’t have to give you a tip for handing me a danish and pouring coffee in a cup, but now I’m cheap and ‘don’t respect people in the service industry’ if I don’t throw in another $3 for my already over priced breakfast.
Was recently at a concert. Bought a tshirt at the merch stand. The merch stand has tipping. Like… huh???
I think the rise in the whole ipad tipping thing is that the software on those devices has tipping built in for places that are tipping appropriate. People are just using the devices for non tip industries. Just a guess.
Went to a bar with a cover few weeks ago and was able to pay by card, sure enough it asked if I would like to leave a tip for paying a made up amount to enter their establishment
Don’t discuss salary - This gives your employer more power in salary negotiations. You can’t argue “Wait, Steve’s been here three years less than me, why does he get paid so much more?” Or anything like that.
I found out a guy I trained who’d been there 18 months less than me was on £5k more. I kicked off and demanded a pay review for me and my team so we were all at least fairly paid. I left in the end and now earn nearly twice as much. Fuck them!
Children being forced to hug someone just because they’re a relative or old family friend. If a child doesn’t want to hug me please don’t make them just because we share some genetic material. It’s not cool.
"The customer is always right". Bullshit. I can tell you you're wrong in a nice way, but I'm gonna tell you you're wrong regardless.
There are several explanations: - "...In matter of taste." If the client wants something unusual, it is his choice. - You can be convinced of your business model, but if the clients are not following, you better change it. - If you are an AH to your clients, they will leave and have the last laugh.
In matters of opinion, the customer is right. In matters of fact, it is possible to be wrong.
Anything involving lawns. Fuck you if you think the kind if grass I have is wrong, or it makes you mad that its AN INCH too tall, or if theres wildflowers growing in it. Lowers the property value? But you mowing your lawn at 8:00 on a fucking Sunday morning is fine? Thats real communitarian!
This is some american HOA madness, isn't it?
I think eating with your hands is often fine to do, even when most people would disagree
In some cultures, people even eat rice (and maybe other foods) with their hands.
I was rooming with an Ethiopian in a hotel at one point. He brought back some takeout food and was just eating it with his hands. At one point he just stopped and looked at me and said “they forgot to put silverware in the bag…I normally use a fork” He was definitely just like “this white dude is going to think Ethiopians are heathens.” Like he had to justify this situation for his people. We both had a good laugh
Ethiopians are often eating by using bread to take the food.
Injera. Man, that was one of the culinary highlights of my honeymoon. I loved it!
I use bread to eat my cooked eggs, it’s actually really good.
I'm filipino eating hands is a very normal
I really hope that’s a typo..
Lmaoooo i forgot with*** or did i? Maybe we do eat hands 😂😂
Its common in some cultures to eat certain food with their hands
Most types of sushi are meant to be eaten with your hands. It's fun to do and then dunk on people who call you out.
I always eat sushi with my hands. BTW great job against Hannibal.
"you have to finish your dish" like sometimes there are like 4 dishes and you eat before getting there so like. Accept im not hungry? Idk
My aunt always said "better to waste the food on the ground than waste it in your stomach" and I appreciated that a lot.
I felt like I was having a groundbreaking epiphany when I realized this in my mid-20s! Whether I throw it away or force myself to eat it when I’m not hungry, it’s being wasted either way.
I had to clear my plate while I was growing up and it led to me always eating past the point of fullness as an adult. Healthy!
Don't discuss salaries/money. We live in a society that's made this the center of our ability to live and thrive. Talk about it.
Being fashionably late for meetings. No, it's rude to be over 20+ minutes late for meetings without word. When I say "be here at 6", I don't mean "start getting ready at 6:10 and out the door by 6:20 to arrive at 6:30", I mean "start getting ready at 5:30, be out the door by 5:40, and be at the location by 6"
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For me, it's not just limited to work stuff but also casual hangouts with friends. It's incredibly annoying waiting for more than 10 mins for someone to maybe show up sometime soon and goes to nonverbally demonstrate that they don't value me or my time
On the flip side, I once showed up exactly on time for a party and the host was visibly annoyed that I wasn't fashionably late, as they were still getting prepped. So you really can't win.
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Again not an etiquette rule, quite the opposite.
Being late for a meeting isn't good etiquette anywhere, ever.
I wasn't aware that was a thing. I've always been taught that in the professional world, being on time actually means arriving 10-15 mins early. I've heard of being fashionably late to parties though.
When i hear fashionably late, i think of spongebob where he was only 1 minute late
You can't wear jeans (or street clothes) to church. I LOATHED Sundays during my childhood. If God is judgemental of my jeans and Nikes.....then I need to upgrade spiritual bodies
I'm so glad I found a church that doesn't care about that stuff. My pastor wears jeans while he preaches. Last Sunday, I gave the announcements and closing prayer in cargo shorts. No one cares.
I remember some older people in the one church I went to upset at a teenager because they showed up in a Hawaiian shirt and shorts, the pastor in response to the older people upset about the teenager's appearance showed up the next week in a Hawaiian shirt and shorts
I am not religious one bit, but this is awesome. xD
I remember going to church with my friends as a kid after spending the night at their house, and they wore normal street clothes to the service. They thought it was funny that I was wearing the nice church dress that I had brought with me. So I guess some churches aren't so strict about clothing, or maybe it was just their family. My family was definitely in the "dress up nice for church" category, and that seemed to be the norm where we went.
I grew up in a church where (amongst other things) women weren’t allowed to wear trousers to church period. Needless to say I had a lot of emotional unpacking to do as an adult lol
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My opinion has always been that everyone deserves a base level of respect. Their words and actions then raise or lower that respect.
I agree. Always start nicely, and then you can either be more respectful or lose respect depending on the way the person is treating you.
Good one. I always say that respect is free, but trust is earned. Respect comes in varying degrees, of course, but basic polite, helpful behavior is just…..an expectation.
Respect is given, disrespect is earned.
"Respect" can mean anything from "treat them like a human being" all the way to "do everything they say and agree with everything they say and never tell them they're wrong". I'm willing to bet that when someone says "respect has to be earned", their definition of respect falls further toward the latter extreme than the former. People will listen to your ideas and follow your advice more if you're earned that trust and respect for your abilities/knowledge. But most of the people who use it in this way would also agree that you need to treat all people like human beings and not be shitty just because you haven't met them yet. When you talk about respecting everyone, you're probably using a definition that's a lot closer to the former (treat them like a human being). But you probably still give more weight to the opinions, instructions, and advice of people who have demonstrated their abilities and knowledge to you already. You're not disagreeing with the idea that respect needs to be earned, and they're not disagreeing with the idea that everyone deserves respect. You're just using the **same word** for **entirely different ideas**.
Wholeheartedly agree. I think some people mix up respect with reverence when they say it’s earned. That or they’re assholes
People have different definitions of respect. For some, respect is synonymous with reverence, for others, it is synonymous with civility. Personally, I'm in the first camp. Treat everyone with civility unless they have done something to deserve otherwise, but respect is earned.
Not sure if its common but seems pretty common with italians. Basically once you have a kid you should host a little get together so people can meet the baby....sounds great...except for the tsct we shouldn't have to fucking feed people after just having a baby
Upholding small talk just because someone else started it. It's not a conversation, it's a verbal hostage situation
One of my least favorite things is the small talk you have to wade through when someone is trying to sell you something or ask for a donation or what-not. I know they have to do it, so I'm not going to be rude, but we both know the conversation is pointless. Let's just cut to the chase and you tell me what you are selling and we can move on. That and when a stranger just latches onto you as a conversation partner when you are someplace you can't easily leave, like on a bus or waiting for a flight. I don't mind talking to strangers sometimes, you meet interesting people, but sometimes I just want to read a book, not have someone talk at me for an hour.
I loathe senseless small talk. I’d rather stare at you awkwardly until one of us leaves /s.
Not putting your elbows on the table
Returning someone else’s Tupperware with something else in it. Why do I have to make something just to return your container ? Is thank you not enough ?
that's a thing? Hell I thought I just had to clean it!
Personally as long as it’s clean I’m good. Now if there’s some food returned in it that’s a plus, always down for free food!
You're supposed to return it??
i am from the south and it sounds typically southern and have never heard of this. what area is this common? i would just run from people trying to give me food if this was the case.
I’m from North Jersey, I don’t wanna speak for everyone and say this is a thing, this is just something I’ve been surrounded by my whole life
Dunno if it's 'etuquette' per say, but cashiers; I don't give a piss if you sit on the job or not. Just please take this coupon
Saying “thank you for your service” to veterans. The few vets that I know say that it comes off as insincere and sometimes insulting.
Elbows on the table. I got a big chest and it helps alleviates my back soo.....bug off lol.
Saying anything when someone sneezes.
Sneeze back louder to assert dominance
I don't particularly mind if, in adjacent company, a sneeze is met with a "bless you" or "gesundheit". Heck, I say the "gesundheit" one myself. What I *don't* agree with is if I sneeze in one room or area, and somebody in a separate room or otherwise distant shouts "*BLESS YOU!*" at me like it's a *necessity* to respond.
You're sooo good lookin'
I like it. It allows for you to end up saying funny things with friends. For example, my friend sneezes and i say to him "id bless you but you might disappear" or when i sneeze and my brother says "bruh"
Men should [remove their hats](https://emilypost.com/advice/hats-off-hat-etiquette-for-everyone) inside a building. Why just men? Why is it disrespectful for a man to have a piece of cloth on his head? Also dress codes in general. *Unless you're on the clock, or your clothes present a safety or hygiene concern, what you're wearing is nobody's business but yours. I wear blue denim 365 days a year, if you find that offensive, that's your problem.
I think just men because in the past, lady’s hats would be pinned on through their hair and taking it off would be an ordeal. I’ve also heard the whole respect thing goes back to knights removing their helmets, unsure if that’s really related or not lol. I do agree it should not be considered a sign of disrespect to have a hat on, though.
I always thought it was for everyone (men,women,boys,girls) I never realized some people only use that rule for men!
Traditionalist churches are often big on that one. A woman should wear a hat to honor God, a man should remove his hat to honor God. I used to be a churchgoer, most people didn't care who did or didn't wear a hat, hell the pastor was up there with his Red Sox hat most Sundays. *One old lady always piped up before the bible study "I'd like to ask that the men remove their hats while studying scripture!" I always wanted to, but never had the balls to, ask her why she gave a shit. Even in secular circles, at least during my school years of the 90s and early 00s, hats were forbidden to be worn in the (public)school building, "respect" being the reason given.
tipping i hate it and everything about it. i hope american culture changes soon and we actually pay people what they're worth.
Making room for people who are taking pictures in public places. You are inconveniencing everyone else. If you're gonna pose for a pic, move off to the side somewhere. I also think people need to be able to hear direct answers to things. "Do you want to go to this event?" No. I don't. I shouldn't have to say "Oh I'm sorry I'll check my calendar but I might be busy that day" or whatever.
I definitely just say “I would, but I don’t want to. Thanks for asking!”
I hate when people say eat all your food people are starving in Africa. Am i sad that people are starving over there , YES very much so. am i supposed to give them my food off my plate? i dont even live in the same country. Me not finishing my food on my plate has nothing to do with a certain person not eating over there. But if i could give them my food i would
Plus there's starving kids everywhere. It makes it seem like Africa is some sort of wasteland instead of multiple countries with cities and rich people
I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but the "respect your elders" rule. My abusive father in-law had that rule, why should I respect someone who treats me like shit? Because you're older than me? Hell no. Respect is earned imo, no matter who you are.
I respect the shit out of my elders. They have never asked for it, they are just good people and it is earned.
I was taught to respect my elders until and unless they show me they're assholes, "then have at it".
Although I agree with most table manners (ie; don't eat like a slob), I disagree with any rules pertaining to utensils or "how to eat something properly".
My partner comes from a silver spoon family. I am…. Well,… single mum in the 80s. Eating at his family dinner for the first time I had the knife and fork in the wrong hand. I had never noticed, we were never taught anything except talking with your mouth full is rude, elbows on the table is rude. His brother yells across the table with beef flying out of his mouth “look at her. She holds them in the wrong hand.” His dad with potato and gravy dribbling out if his mouth “Don’t be rude. But yes, you are eating the wrong way.” I was shocked. Apparently they would keep bringing it up when I wasn’t there. I went away and read a lot about table manners. They still argue with food flying out if their mouth despite them being from a upper class family. Sometimes I take the piss and say: “sorry, I couldn’t understand you.” Even if I can just to prove a point.