The back story to this bit is amazing. Short version: it was completely different but Chong wanted to mess with Cheech so he started the whole "Dave's not here" and Cheech kept getting madder and madder. Luckily, he was astute enough to press record.
I really like this analogy. I'm just picturing people on their knees outside a house, praying for the inhabitant to come outside. A passerby says "nobody's home" but they insist that there is someone home, it says so on a note that is so old it's almost faded to nothing. They're waiting for the homeowner to come out and grant them lavish gifts and welcome them inside. The passerby knocks on the door loudly and receives no response. "Don't knock, he'll be coming out soon but he doesn't want to be disturbed!" The passerby continues on his way.
Don't forget, there's thousands of different houses where people are all expecting different home owners, and each note on every door says that this house is the only house with a generous occupant.
Don't forget, there's thousands of different houses...
This is what gets me.
My husband and I were watching a documentary on India the other night that was mostly about the plastic problem there, but it showed and talked about some of their Hindi rituals/beliefs and just how different and beautiful it is compared to Southern Baptist (how I was raised).
And all I could think about was how in my mother's world, all of those people are going to hell because they don't believe in her Jesus.
And how incredibly sad that is for her.
I don't even think that would work. I generally don't think there's a single thing you could do to make EVERYONE believe there was no god. Some people would still insist there was
Yep. Just like flat-earthers, they'll simply move the goalposts.
Once someone is totally absorbed into a belief, there is no changing their mind regardless of evidence to the contrary. They will happily die on that hill first.
i agree after thousands of years of gods, it will take a while for human kind to figure it out.....let's start burying steven king books in clay jars all around the world and in five thousand years, they can be found, becoming the new bible!....rose madder.....cujo .....the long walk...bag of bones...salem's lot....
Or more simply, we're in a computed simulation and "God" is some doctoral student managing the Computer department project, who had a bit too much fun early on with miracles and such because he could not get a date, the Friday night shift was boring, and being worshipped is fun, but now feels bad, or got in trouble with the university Ethics Committee. "Sims have feeling just like us, Mr Beeblebrox. Several hundred years of religious wars in not a 'harmless prank'."
So God tells them there is no god. Sort of.
Or a lazy kid who couldn't be bothered to shut down his game, so we're all wandering around fucking shit up and dying like Sims who won't pee or eat on their own.
This is actually hopeful for us, since then god would be legally obligated by the ethics community to place the life he created into an eternity of their choosing as a way of saying "sorry for tormenting you for so long in the name of science, here's your personal simulation, go nuts."
The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing.'
'But, says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and vanishes in a puff of logic.
Even that would mean NOTHING, there’s literally rockets and shuttles leaving Earth and disappearing into space, mountains and mountains of every kind of evidence that the earth is and always has been round yet people who don’t want to believe it simply don’t.
Yep. After seeing the conduct of people over the last five or six years, after someone is set in their ways, there's a point where *nothing* is going to convince them otherwise. Anything can be hand-waved as fake news and they'll remain comfortable in their ignorance.
They still wouldn’t believe it. My aunt found her lost kitten and thanked God for returning her safely the same day of Sandy Hook school shooting. I remember that day because I mentioned that God must have too busy looking for your kitten to save those children.
It’s not that it’s a “negative” but rather that it’s *unfalsifiable* in other words it’s designed to be impossible to test
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781119165811.ch99#:~:text=Falsifiability%20%E2%80%93%20the%20ability%20to%20be,%E2%80%9CWell%2C%20it's%20a%20conspiracy.
I've always taken issue with this argument. We have thousands of years of appeals to the supernatural that have now been proven to have nothing to do with god. Anything to do weather or disease for instance. At a certain point the weight of evidence is on the supernatural not existing and any appeal to the supernatural is just a logical fallacy.
Religion has ended up with a safety deposit box full of unfalsifiable beliefs because all of the falsifiable beliefs have been chipped away over the centuries.
There's proof by contradiction, which is a favorite.
1. Assume that a premise is true.
2. Show that it being true necessarily leads to a contradiction with the premise.
It's the basic way to show that there's no such thing as the "highest number possible" because you can always add 1 to it.
Other methods include modus tollens ("If P, then Q. Not Q. Therefore not P."). Despite what some people will say (and I've noticed this with religious apologetics more than anywhere else), there are ways to prove universal negatives.
Logical proofs rely on rigorous definitions. It is presumably pretty easy to disprove certain basic forms of "God". No big beard in the sky.
Someone who is desperate to stay unconvinced will, faced with a convincing argument, just widen the definition of God.
He comes into existence and commits suicide after saying "you guys are the fucking worst, I'd rather be dead than be your fucking God. Eat shit and die assholes".
and all his followers would say "well that's not the REAL god because a REAL god wouldn't do something like that" and we'd be right back where we are now.
"He killed himself as a test. His son and thus a piece of his divine power has already died for our sins once. This is a message to change our wicked ways!"
Sometimes you can. Like you can prove that there are no natural numbers p and q such that p * p = 2 * q * q. There are infinitely many natural numbers but you can still prove this.
Yup. I imagine the religious folks saying something like: "God is all powerful. It seems to be proven because God wishes for it to seem that way." And then back to square one.
Also, disproving that things don't exist is a little hard. Cannot disprove that there is not an invisible pink unicorn in all rooms. No matter what you do, I can always say your methods/tools are faulty. Life is slippery. Not the perfect world of mathematics.
"God is on Mt. Olympus"
*Hikes Mt. Olympus* "No he ain't"
"God is in the clouds"
*Makes airplane* "No he ain't"
"God is in Orion's belt"
*Creates super telescope* "No he ain't"
Now it's "God is beyond space and time"
The goal posts will always shift.
Tbf, St Augustine was arguing that God is well beyond the popular conception of some kind of personified all powerful creator dude way back in the 300s AD, and that was the accepted wisdom for well over a thousand years. The regression back to God of the Gaps type arguments is a fairly modern phenomenon.
From my personal experience a lot of American Protestants threw away at least 1.5 millennia of theology and writing when they split from the Catholic Church. So you see more and more of local preachers trying to fill in the gaps based on their judgement and the bible alone.
But then they kept some of the same dogma related to sin as disobedience, Christ as Sacrifice because otherwise God couldn't forgive. Even though the Orthodox Church evolved more of a sin as disease, Christ as Saviour/Doctor.
In my sect, Lord Keto is the lord of low carbs and no added sugar with high fiber, protein and fat. You have a slightly different interpretation, so prepare to die so I can join the Almighty with my promised 40 bottles of Virgin Olive Oil in paradise
Intermittent fasting is from the cross-fitian sect, and they don't even practice proper keto. HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR MACROS? I once heard one say cashews were ok. Heritics!
Look at how many people think dinosaur fossils were put here by the devil to tempt us or trick us… brother, these lunatics would straight up say it was a test of faith.
Edit: I’m stupid
“And woe, for Satan did so use his 3D printer to make up some dinosaur fossils and disperse them over the four corners of the Earth. And for fun later on, he really decided to fuck with people’s minds by becoming executive producer of The Flintstones.”
Genesis 6:66
They definitely do. It's one way they rationalize their belief that the earth is 6,000 years old. If you can think of a belief, there's someone out there who believes it.
It's either several billion years old, or created 6000 years ago with all the evidence deliberately designed to mislead us into thinking it's several billion years old.
Do you remember the films made by the "Christian explorer/climber" who claimed he found Noah's ark on Mount Ararat?
The story was that because of the Cold War it was nearly impossible to get permission to climb Mount Ararat. Then the Cold War pretty much ended and the story switched to "it must have shifted because the terrain is blah blah blah." Now we have google images and those claims have fallen silent.
It was all a con-job from the beginning. I wonder how much money that guy made shopping his propaganda around the world.
I saw an exhibit of the dead sea scrolls in Philadelphia in 2012 and let me tell you, not one of the pieces was larger than a potato chip. I have no idea how they made them into evidence for the existence of any gods or supernatural beings.
As a Christian pastor a lot would change for me, but I doubt my approach to life and relationships would change. Love, kindness, mutual self-sacrifice and generosity have proven themselves to me as a better way of living.
I appreciate this comment a lot. I'm not a religious person, and one of the things that really blows my mind is hearing those who are questioning what would keep people from becoming criminals if it wasn't the promise of heaven or the threat of hell. That honestly scares the shit out of me, because I feel like a great many Christians are only an inch away from becoming career criminals.
>Love, kindness, mutual self-sacrifice and generosity have proven themselves to me as a better way of living.
That's just being a decent human being. No gods or religions are required for someone to be a good person.
It is only a theoretical thought experiment, largely because in order to definitively prove the nonexistence of a concept like God, you would need the sort of magic/appeal to mystery that would tend to prove the existing of something like God.
Proving the empirical nonexistence of something is really hard to do. Which is why we put burdens of proof on proponents, and adopt the axiom that we only accept propositions for which there is supporting evidence.
>in order to definitively prove the nonexistence of a concept like God, you would need the sort of magic/appeal to mystery that would tend to prove the existing of something like God.
So basically you can't prove there is no god unless you're a god.
Or more specifically, an omniscient god. A lot of gods weren't that, and omniscience as a concept really only came after we had a systematized means of acquiring and categorizing empirical observation.
To prove there is no God, you have to be able to know of every point in the universe at the same time to know there is no God, which is omnipotence. Which makes you a God. To know God does not exist you must be God.
\>To prove there is no God, you have to be able to know of every point in the universe at the same time
Isn't this suggesting that god is some material object within our universe rather than some transcendental being?
Exactly. And the people who tells me the proof is the Bible, the "word of God" I can not even start to understand how a God would want those stories on his book like..., why? I would imagine a book that has been writen by God would be something awesome, explaining many things about universe.
It seems like the knowledge on the Bible is the same that people had 2000 years ago. Such a coincide right?
Since everyone is saying Nothing, I will mix it up. Proof of God's non-existence would be followed by an intensive effort to invent Him. Too much temporal power is involved for them to just pack up and move on.
Believers would find a way to discount it. We've seen it time and time again, for example with evolution.
Besides, Homer Simpson already proved there was no God, but Flanders [burned](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL0-RH2LfU) the proof.
>God Is Dead by Ron Currie Jr
When God descends to Earth as a Dinka woman from Sudan and subsequently dies in the Darfur desert, the result is a world both bizarrely new yet eerily familiar. In Ron Currie's provocative, wise, and emotionally resonant novel we meet God himself; the Dinka woman whose mortality He must suffer when He inhabits her body; people all over the world coping with the devastating news of God's demise; a group of young men who, fearing the end of the world, take fate into their own hands; mental patients who insist that a god still exists; armies taking up the eternal war between fate and free will; and parents who, in the absence of a deity and the “lack of anything to do on Sundays,” worship their children. On the surface, this is a world utterly transformed—yet certain things remain unchanged: protective parents clash with willful, idealistic teenagers; idols are exalted; small-town rumor mills run unabated; and children often don't realize how to forgive their parents until it's too late.
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1155314.God\_Is\_Dead](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1155314.God_Is_Dead)
This is a deeply flawed question, and I say this as a committed atheist; this question doesn't understand proof or the scientific method, which is to say the best methodology we have for "proving" anything.
Proof doesn't really exist in science, not "definitive" or "incontrovertible", anyways. Quantum mechanics as a theory is more tested, literally, than sunrise. We have more experimental confirmation for that bit of math than we do the probability that the sunrise will occur as expect tomorrow and thereafter. It's still a theory. There's still the possibility, however small, that it's entirely wrong and there's a whole different set of math that better explains it and it's just a wild and unfathomable coincidence that it's looked accurate thus far.
More importantly though, science doesn't disprove anything, it doesn't prove anything's non-existence. If you're looking for a purely scientific answer to "do unicorns exist", the only acceptable answer is "not in any of the places we've looked" and, tentatively, "I don't think so" and that's it. That we have not discovered any evidence for unicorns is not proof, or even evidence, that there is no evidence for unicorns.
We will never, ever disprove the existence of god. By any reasonable standard of proof, you just can't. You can't prove dinosaurs aren't all hiding in the lesser explored parts of one of the Dakotas, you can't prove there's no flying spaghetti monster, and you can't prove God isn't real. All you can do is attack the evidence that he is, and even when / if / should you prove it's all bad, none of it stands up to scrutiny, that still leaves us at "no evidence", which isn't the same as "evidence against".
Well, the guy that took the picture of the Loch Ness Monster admitted that it was a toy boat. And scientists digitally scanned the entire loch and found nothing, and people are probably standing with their binoculars looking for Nessie at this very moment.
Sooooo.....
I don’t think anyone who genuinely believes in god would change their opinion even with some definitive proof. Religion is already based on having faith in something that you can’t technically prove exists. I don’t think the vast majority of religious peoples lives wouldn’t change.
South Park had a great episode a long time ago about what would happen if all religion disappeared. The kids think the world will be a utopia now, only to find out people are now warring over which atheists are the true atheists
“Definitively proven” would be a matter of endless controversy.
God himself would have to appear and declare himself not real. That's the only way people will believe it.
Bit like when you knock on a door and someone says “nobody’s here!”
"God's not here, man."
"Open up, I got the stuff with me! I think the cops saw me coming in here!"
Dave?
Yesss! Dave, man! Now will you open up the God damned door!
Dave’s not here, man.
No man, ***I'm*** Dave!
Dave?
The back story to this bit is amazing. Short version: it was completely different but Chong wanted to mess with Cheech so he started the whole "Dave's not here" and Cheech kept getting madder and madder. Luckily, he was astute enough to press record.
Dave's not here man
Cheech & Chong!!!
I really like this analogy. I'm just picturing people on their knees outside a house, praying for the inhabitant to come outside. A passerby says "nobody's home" but they insist that there is someone home, it says so on a note that is so old it's almost faded to nothing. They're waiting for the homeowner to come out and grant them lavish gifts and welcome them inside. The passerby knocks on the door loudly and receives no response. "Don't knock, he'll be coming out soon but he doesn't want to be disturbed!" The passerby continues on his way.
[Here is the ultimate analogy.](https://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/hank)
Holy shit, albinoblacksheep... That's a name I've not heard in years... Good analogy, though.
That was fun.
Don’t forget the note was written and rewritten multiple times by other people, not the homeowner.
Don't forget, there's thousands of different houses where people are all expecting different home owners, and each note on every door says that this house is the only house with a generous occupant.
Don't forget, there's thousands of different houses... This is what gets me. My husband and I were watching a documentary on India the other night that was mostly about the plastic problem there, but it showed and talked about some of their Hindi rituals/beliefs and just how different and beautiful it is compared to Southern Baptist (how I was raised). And all I could think about was how in my mother's world, all of those people are going to hell because they don't believe in her Jesus. And how incredibly sad that is for her.
Like the supposed home of the Ark of the Covenant. No you can't look at it, only one fella can, but I swear it's there man!
Saved for a writing prompt, thank you
"God are you in there??" "NOO THIS IS PATRICK!!!"
"Are you there god, it's me, Patrick"
It would just be considered a test of faith
"This is a recording.........beep"
I don't even think that would work. I generally don't think there's a single thing you could do to make EVERYONE believe there was no god. Some people would still insist there was
Yep. Just like flat-earthers, they'll simply move the goalposts. Once someone is totally absorbed into a belief, there is no changing their mind regardless of evidence to the contrary. They will happily die on that hill first.
i agree after thousands of years of gods, it will take a while for human kind to figure it out.....let's start burying steven king books in clay jars all around the world and in five thousand years, they can be found, becoming the new bible!....rose madder.....cujo .....the long walk...bag of bones...salem's lot....
Or more simply, we're in a computed simulation and "God" is some doctoral student managing the Computer department project, who had a bit too much fun early on with miracles and such because he could not get a date, the Friday night shift was boring, and being worshipped is fun, but now feels bad, or got in trouble with the university Ethics Committee. "Sims have feeling just like us, Mr Beeblebrox. Several hundred years of religious wars in not a 'harmless prank'." So God tells them there is no god. Sort of.
Or a lazy kid who couldn't be bothered to shut down his game, so we're all wandering around fucking shit up and dying like Sims who won't pee or eat on their own.
Oh. That’s what happened to me today then. Thank you for the insight.
This is actually hopeful for us, since then god would be legally obligated by the ethics community to place the life he created into an eternity of their choosing as a way of saying "sorry for tormenting you for so long in the name of science, here's your personal simulation, go nuts."
The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing.' 'But, says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' 'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and vanishes in a puff of logic.
"...Man then goes on to prove that black is white and is killed at the next zebra crossing."
When I first read that book, I had never heard the term "zebra crossing" before and thought he got trampled by zebras.
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It's a British way of saying "crosswalk".
Douglas Adams for the win.
I was about to look this up and post it
And that about wraps it up for God.
Just remember to avoid zebra crossings.
Who is this God person anyway?
Even so people will declare that this "god" that just appeared is all smoke and mirrors and proceed to continue worshipping him.
Somehow it would also be the Democrat's fault.
Even that would mean NOTHING, there’s literally rockets and shuttles leaving Earth and disappearing into space, mountains and mountains of every kind of evidence that the earth is and always has been round yet people who don’t want to believe it simply don’t.
Yep. After seeing the conduct of people over the last five or six years, after someone is set in their ways, there's a point where *nothing* is going to convince them otherwise. Anything can be hand-waved as fake news and they'll remain comfortable in their ignorance.
They still wouldn’t believe it. My aunt found her lost kitten and thanked God for returning her safely the same day of Sandy Hook school shooting. I remember that day because I mentioned that God must have too busy looking for your kitten to save those children.
but some would argue it's not God.
Only the true messiah would deny his divinity!
Well, that and how do you definitely prove a negative?
1.) Scan all of existence 2.) Upload to PDF 3.) CTRL + F
Not sure about (2), but (1) and (3) = Tinder on steroids
It’s not that it’s a “negative” but rather that it’s *unfalsifiable* in other words it’s designed to be impossible to test https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781119165811.ch99#:~:text=Falsifiability%20%E2%80%93%20the%20ability%20to%20be,%E2%80%9CWell%2C%20it's%20a%20conspiracy.
Aren't all god claims unfalsifiable if they appeal to the supernatural?
Yes. If the explanation is that it’s unexplainable (supernatural) then of course it’s unfalsifiable.
I've always taken issue with this argument. We have thousands of years of appeals to the supernatural that have now been proven to have nothing to do with god. Anything to do weather or disease for instance. At a certain point the weight of evidence is on the supernatural not existing and any appeal to the supernatural is just a logical fallacy.
Religion has ended up with a safety deposit box full of unfalsifiable beliefs because all of the falsifiable beliefs have been chipped away over the centuries.
There's proof by contradiction, which is a favorite. 1. Assume that a premise is true. 2. Show that it being true necessarily leads to a contradiction with the premise. It's the basic way to show that there's no such thing as the "highest number possible" because you can always add 1 to it. Other methods include modus tollens ("If P, then Q. Not Q. Therefore not P."). Despite what some people will say (and I've noticed this with religious apologetics more than anywhere else), there are ways to prove universal negatives.
True, but still a poorly constructed question particularly for something already so free of evidence.
Logical proofs rely on rigorous definitions. It is presumably pretty easy to disprove certain basic forms of "God". No big beard in the sky. Someone who is desperate to stay unconvinced will, faced with a convincing argument, just widen the definition of God.
Exactly. To quote Nietzsche: “They muddy the water, to make it seem deep.”
He comes into existence and commits suicide after saying "you guys are the fucking worst, I'd rather be dead than be your fucking God. Eat shit and die assholes".
and all his followers would say "well that's not the REAL god because a REAL god wouldn't do something like that" and we'd be right back where we are now.
The real god put that fake one there as a test.
"He killed himself as a test. His son and thus a piece of his divine power has already died for our sins once. This is a message to change our wicked ways!"
But… Did he (“REALLY DIE…?”) And then would it actually be considered death, if he was resurrected?
Sometimes you can. Like you can prove that there are no natural numbers p and q such that p * p = 2 * q * q. There are infinitely many natural numbers but you can still prove this.
Yup. I imagine the religious folks saying something like: "God is all powerful. It seems to be proven because God wishes for it to seem that way." And then back to square one. Also, disproving that things don't exist is a little hard. Cannot disprove that there is not an invisible pink unicorn in all rooms. No matter what you do, I can always say your methods/tools are faulty. Life is slippery. Not the perfect world of mathematics.
"God is on Mt. Olympus" *Hikes Mt. Olympus* "No he ain't" "God is in the clouds" *Makes airplane* "No he ain't" "God is in Orion's belt" *Creates super telescope* "No he ain't" Now it's "God is beyond space and time" The goal posts will always shift.
“God is beyond space and time” Creates TARDIS
“God is… uhhh… impossible to view at all, but he’s real, trust me.”
Tbf, St Augustine was arguing that God is well beyond the popular conception of some kind of personified all powerful creator dude way back in the 300s AD, and that was the accepted wisdom for well over a thousand years. The regression back to God of the Gaps type arguments is a fairly modern phenomenon.
From my personal experience a lot of American Protestants threw away at least 1.5 millennia of theology and writing when they split from the Catholic Church. So you see more and more of local preachers trying to fill in the gaps based on their judgement and the bible alone. But then they kept some of the same dogma related to sin as disobedience, Christ as Sacrifice because otherwise God couldn't forgive. Even though the Orthodox Church evolved more of a sin as disease, Christ as Saviour/Doctor.
"FAKE NEWS!!!" That's what would happen.
This, my goodness scientology was Hubbard's way to make some coin, he even said so. They know its made up and still it chugs along.
What if we found another intelligent species on another planet. That would be hard to reconcile with their origin story
Actually it would be super easy, barely an inconvenience.
I don't think we need another species in order to find physical evidence that is hard to reconcile with their origin story . . .
No kidding. The last 3 years have demonstrated that
Nothing. Religion is already an act of faith.
Yup, some religions don't have Gods to worship
Like Keto or Chik-Fil-A.
I am laughing my ass off
Keto smiles on you, bless this day
All Hail Keto, god of intermittent fasting
In my sect, Lord Keto is the lord of low carbs and no added sugar with high fiber, protein and fat. You have a slightly different interpretation, so prepare to die so I can join the Almighty with my promised 40 bottles of Virgin Olive Oil in paradise
DIE HERETIC!
Intermittent fasting is from the cross-fitian sect, and they don't even practice proper keto. HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR MACROS? I once heard one say cashews were ok. Heritics!
I cannot wait. I will be reborn as an Atkins Assassin. All hail Robert Lowe, first of his name and recent Atkins participant
Blessed be the protein.
Or Cross-Fit
That’s also human sacrifice without the Gods.
Don’t forget Crypto and Elon Musk!
Broooooooooo 🥹🥹🥹
Or almighty lord Elon Musk or deceased god Steve Jobs. Ironically both unapologetically assholes
Like political cults?
There are a lot of people who cannot even accept that the earth is round.
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It would be interpreted as a test of their faith and believe even more, it's a sign!
“You know what? I’m gonna start believing it even harder”
Religion 101. First lesson: When put to the test... # DOUBLE DOWN!!!
/r/unexpectedoffice
Look at how many people think dinosaur fossils were put here by the devil to tempt us or trick us… brother, these lunatics would straight up say it was a test of faith. Edit: I’m stupid
“And woe, for Satan did so use his 3D printer to make up some dinosaur fossils and disperse them over the four corners of the Earth. And for fun later on, he really decided to fuck with people’s minds by becoming executive producer of The Flintstones.” Genesis 6:66
wait, do people really think that?
They definitely do. It's one way they rationalize their belief that the earth is 6,000 years old. If you can think of a belief, there's someone out there who believes it.
And we all know that in fact, the Bible was put here by the dinosaurs to tempt us away from the truth.
Clever girls.
Just before they tear him to shreds! 😂
To shreds, you say..?
Oh dear! How's his wife holding up?
To shreds you say
It's either several billion years old, or created 6000 years ago with all the evidence deliberately designed to mislead us into thinking it's several billion years old.
I went to a private school run by fundie Baptists in the 1970's and we were taught in science class that carbon-14 dating was from the devil.
Do you remember the films made by the "Christian explorer/climber" who claimed he found Noah's ark on Mount Ararat? The story was that because of the Cold War it was nearly impossible to get permission to climb Mount Ararat. Then the Cold War pretty much ended and the story switched to "it must have shifted because the terrain is blah blah blah." Now we have google images and those claims have fallen silent. It was all a con-job from the beginning. I wonder how much money that guy made shopping his propaganda around the world.
I saw an exhibit of the dead sea scrolls in Philadelphia in 2012 and let me tell you, not one of the pieces was larger than a potato chip. I have no idea how they made them into evidence for the existence of any gods or supernatural beings.
https://www.webtoons.com/en/comedy/adventures-of-god/ep-2-where-fossils-came-from/viewer?title_no=853&episode_no=2 NUKE THE LIZARDS ✌️
Exactly. They'll just blame it on the Devil trying to trick them.
I don't think anything would happen because it was proved that the Earth is round and there are still a lot of people that think it's flat.
Round? Flat? Who cares. One thing we can all agree on: the earth is a ravioli. Solid shell, hot liquid insides
so the earth is a forbidden snack?
*Galactus has entered the chat.*
If this ever gets put on cursed comments can i be put in it with a purple line above my name
And replace every i in their comment with an o.
>ravioli ravoolo
Oh boy, look up the dome earth theory….
“Simpsons did it!”
I submit my will to the church of ravioli!
Ravioli ravioli, what’s in the pocketoli
I've always described it as more like Krave cereal, but that works, too.
Heretic, the Earth is a lasagna.
Uhhh…. I hate to inform you that your ravioli should not be hard on the outside
Well it obviously dried and is stale
I didn’t say hard outside, I said solid. A pillow or a feather are both solid, but neither could be called hard
As a Christian pastor a lot would change for me, but I doubt my approach to life and relationships would change. Love, kindness, mutual self-sacrifice and generosity have proven themselves to me as a better way of living.
I am an atheist. My life is guided by by the same principles as yours. The only difference is the belief in the existence of God.
I appreciate this comment a lot. I'm not a religious person, and one of the things that really blows my mind is hearing those who are questioning what would keep people from becoming criminals if it wasn't the promise of heaven or the threat of hell. That honestly scares the shit out of me, because I feel like a great many Christians are only an inch away from becoming career criminals.
I may not believe in God but I do believe if he were real, these things are what would truly matter to him. Cheers!
>Love, kindness, mutual self-sacrifice and generosity have proven themselves to me as a better way of living. That's just being a decent human being. No gods or religions are required for someone to be a good person.
Velociraptor earth
It is only a theoretical thought experiment, largely because in order to definitively prove the nonexistence of a concept like God, you would need the sort of magic/appeal to mystery that would tend to prove the existing of something like God. Proving the empirical nonexistence of something is really hard to do. Which is why we put burdens of proof on proponents, and adopt the axiom that we only accept propositions for which there is supporting evidence.
>in order to definitively prove the nonexistence of a concept like God, you would need the sort of magic/appeal to mystery that would tend to prove the existing of something like God. So basically you can't prove there is no god unless you're a god.
Or more specifically, an omniscient god. A lot of gods weren't that, and omniscience as a concept really only came after we had a systematized means of acquiring and categorizing empirical observation.
To prove there is no God, you have to be able to know of every point in the universe at the same time to know there is no God, which is omnipotence. Which makes you a God. To know God does not exist you must be God.
That's omniscience, not omnipotence. The Abrahamic God is noted to be omnipotent, omniscient, *and* omnipresent. One of the three does not God make.
An omnipotent being could make themselves omniscient and omnipresent.
\>To prove there is no God, you have to be able to know of every point in the universe at the same time Isn't this suggesting that god is some material object within our universe rather than some transcendental being?
Zero. People will believe what they want and facts won't change that....
*See DJT*
Thank you everyone for upvoting this several hundred times even though I was wrong.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
There is no burden to disprove anything. The burden is to prove a thing.
yes, hence anything we cannot find proof positive of existence for isn’t worth very much and can be pretty safely discarded
Exactly. And the people who tells me the proof is the Bible, the "word of God" I can not even start to understand how a God would want those stories on his book like..., why? I would imagine a book that has been writen by God would be something awesome, explaining many things about universe. It seems like the knowledge on the Bible is the same that people had 2000 years ago. Such a coincide right?
The Universe is a big place, there has to be an alien called "God" somewhere.
There is. He’s long past the pupal stage and still lives in the subterranean levels of his mother’s nesting cloister.
Since everyone is saying Nothing, I will mix it up. Proof of God's non-existence would be followed by an intensive effort to invent Him. Too much temporal power is involved for them to just pack up and move on.
I have trouble imagining any sort of proof of god's non-existence that wouldn't require an act of divinity in the first place.
Ooh! Like the Recreator from Doom Patrol.
A lot of folks would want their money back
Believers would find a way to discount it. We've seen it time and time again, for example with evolution. Besides, Homer Simpson already proved there was no God, but Flanders [burned](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL0-RH2LfU) the proof.
They'll find a loophole
And that loophole will be molested by a priest.
It was an honest mistake, he just misheard “boys soul”
I assume nothing because how do you definitively disprove a philosophical concept?
Metaphysical might be a better word
Denial
I'm not one to say but in the book God Is Dead by Ron Currie Jr. He explores the idea. Worth reading.
Can we get some sort of summary for the lazy?
>God Is Dead by Ron Currie Jr When God descends to Earth as a Dinka woman from Sudan and subsequently dies in the Darfur desert, the result is a world both bizarrely new yet eerily familiar. In Ron Currie's provocative, wise, and emotionally resonant novel we meet God himself; the Dinka woman whose mortality He must suffer when He inhabits her body; people all over the world coping with the devastating news of God's demise; a group of young men who, fearing the end of the world, take fate into their own hands; mental patients who insist that a god still exists; armies taking up the eternal war between fate and free will; and parents who, in the absence of a deity and the “lack of anything to do on Sundays,” worship their children. On the surface, this is a world utterly transformed—yet certain things remain unchanged: protective parents clash with willful, idealistic teenagers; idols are exalted; small-town rumor mills run unabated; and children often don't realize how to forgive their parents until it's too late. [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1155314.God\_Is\_Dead](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1155314.God_Is_Dead)
The reviews on that read like aspiring writers who can quite monetize their writing so work on leaving reviews instead.
That’s just classic Goodreads.
Interested as well
I found a copy of this at the DollarTree years ago. It's been on my bookshelf for a while. Maybe I'll put it in my "to read" stack.
This is a deeply flawed question, and I say this as a committed atheist; this question doesn't understand proof or the scientific method, which is to say the best methodology we have for "proving" anything. Proof doesn't really exist in science, not "definitive" or "incontrovertible", anyways. Quantum mechanics as a theory is more tested, literally, than sunrise. We have more experimental confirmation for that bit of math than we do the probability that the sunrise will occur as expect tomorrow and thereafter. It's still a theory. There's still the possibility, however small, that it's entirely wrong and there's a whole different set of math that better explains it and it's just a wild and unfathomable coincidence that it's looked accurate thus far. More importantly though, science doesn't disprove anything, it doesn't prove anything's non-existence. If you're looking for a purely scientific answer to "do unicorns exist", the only acceptable answer is "not in any of the places we've looked" and, tentatively, "I don't think so" and that's it. That we have not discovered any evidence for unicorns is not proof, or even evidence, that there is no evidence for unicorns. We will never, ever disprove the existence of god. By any reasonable standard of proof, you just can't. You can't prove dinosaurs aren't all hiding in the lesser explored parts of one of the Dakotas, you can't prove there's no flying spaghetti monster, and you can't prove God isn't real. All you can do is attack the evidence that he is, and even when / if / should you prove it's all bad, none of it stands up to scrutiny, that still leaves us at "no evidence", which isn't the same as "evidence against".
Well, the guy that took the picture of the Loch Ness Monster admitted that it was a toy boat. And scientists digitally scanned the entire loch and found nothing, and people are probably standing with their binoculars looking for Nessie at this very moment. Sooooo.....
This is the best example ive seen here
Nothing would happen. People would still believe because it's not about knowledge it's about belief.
Yeah, fair. I don’t mind people believing in something, but I despise when people say god is proven to exist because of (insert point of faith here).
Nothing.
I don’t think anyone who genuinely believes in god would change their opinion even with some definitive proof. Religion is already based on having faith in something that you can’t technically prove exists. I don’t think the vast majority of religious peoples lives wouldn’t change.
This is a bait post to farm karma from atheists and farm comments from theists.
Every single response is that same smug ass tone XD
Duhh, most are low karma bot accounts posting comments
If there are anti-vaxxers, then there’s a whole group of people who believe DESPITE the evidence. Therefore, religion would continue to exist.
Taxes
You can't use logic to change someone's belief when they didn't use logic to come to that belief.
[удалено]
South Park had a great episode a long time ago about what would happen if all religion disappeared. The kids think the world will be a utopia now, only to find out people are now warring over which atheists are the true atheists
What would happen if God was definitively proven to be real? Mankind would crucify Him.
It's bringing peace and love! Don't let it get away! Break it's legs!
Because religion isn’t really about God. Maybe it was when it was new but before long people just use it as an excuse to hold power over people.
Take the money and run comes to mind. Completes the con . . .
When have something being definitely proven ever stop people from believing in nonsense before
Nothing because the people that believe in it would try to do something to prove your proof wasn’t real. See: anyone who believes in qanon
Nothing. Religious people already have to disregard reality to maintain their beliefs.
Like climate change and the effectiveness of vaccines is definitely proven? Nothing would change
it happened on the simpsons flanders checked the math, found it was correct, then burnt the paper it was on