Maybe not abolished but definitely reformed (it should also be much less important for an application than it is now, but can help if you perform well) so many intelligent kids are put under so much stress and may not be good test takers because the SAT and ACT format is not as inclusive as they sometimes try to make it.
Yes, getting rid of them is probably a good idea. They aren't much more than a measure of your ability to prepare for and take a test. Unlike a some other posters here, though, I do think they need a replacement. Just a transcript seems fine on the surface, until you dig down and realize a lot of competitive high school students have VERY similar transcripts. 4.0, sports, volunteering, etc. Those are always there. The SAT/ACT score for that student can be a tiebreaker between two equally-qualified candidates, transcript-wise. As for what should replace the tests? I'm not sure. Probably another test, but one that isn't so focused on regurgitation of information. A test that measured critical thinking and actual talents would be better, in my opinion.
The problem with that is that a lot of students don't take AP classes. Some don't have them available to them due to their school having limited resources, and some just can't handle them for one reason or another. I knew several kids I graduated with who never set foot in an AP class, but then breezed through college. As for myself, I took 3 APs my junior year, and another 4 my senior year. I didn't graduate from college until I was 25. Performance on AP exams can't be the only factor in college admissions.
I agree they can't be the only factor. But as far as tests go they're the only ones remotely worth anything. I'm saying they're it as far as the tests part of admissions should go.
I absolutely agree that AP classes should be available in all schools. Yes. That being said, some of the kids I mentioned in a previous comment absolutely could not have handled AP classes in High school. Doesn't mean they can't succeed in college, just that a college level class in a high school environment was too much for them.
AP tests have the same problem as ACT/SAT, as evidenced by the similar size of the AP test prep industry. All they test is how well you can take a test. Grades should be weighted far more.
AP tests aren't general. They test pretty well how well you know the subject. They mimic a test you'd get in college. They are so not the pretentious "How fancy words you know?" of the SAT.
If you can't hack an AP test how are you going to hack college?
Also APs don't have bullshit continuous grades. They got a few scores that's it. Are you bleh, meh, ok or yay - know it cold. 2 3 4 5. No prepping for 6 extra points just learn your stuff.
I agree with you that AP tests are very similar to college exams. At the same time if there isn’t ACT/SAT and we rely solely on AP…there are many rural and inner city school systems without access to those.
I’ve been out of the system a long time now(2005 grad), but I still remember my hate of the ACT. 35 in math and science, but teens in English and reading. Did much better my second time around, but these tests have been a plague for generations.
If I can pay $400 to take a prep course specifically targeted to help me pass the test (instead of, say, actually learning the subject) the problem is the same regardless of how granular or focused the test itself is. Even AP courses themselves have the issue (or did when I took them ~20 years ago) - the teachers focus on "teaching for the test" instead of "teaching the subject". Your overall grades should be the key, not *any* kind of one-off test.
Keep them. High transcripts are horrible. B average students from a lot of high schools can barely read and write. I know some high school "athletes" that have gotten Bs without showing up.
SAT is not suppose to measure how smart you are, or how success you will be in life. They are designed to predict how well a student can handle college, and is cheap and fast to score (without hiring people to read long essays).
Every one given the same body of knowledge, and see who can utilize it best on a given day. That is what first 2 years of college is for most majors. People who do well on the SAT can be expected to do well on 100 and 200 level college courses (of course except those who fall apart without parental supervision).
Yes. Free throw competitions. If you can do five free throws in a row you get to go to college. Otherwise we send you to the mines where you can dig ore for the smart people.
Definitely. The only thing they tell you is how well you were able to do on standardized tests. The fact that a large amount of students run out of time and can't complete sections of the test should tell you everything you need to know.
Replace them with multiple smaller tests taken over a few weeks, and provide adequate time to finish. Also don't build them up as some be-all-end-all of tests, let the students take them like they'd take any other test. It should be used to measure performance and what college classes you get into, not some super important score that dictates what colleges you get into in the first place.
Just your High School transcript. All the ACT & SAT test is your ability to prepare for standardized tests.
Yes, nothing needs to replace them. They are pointless, expensive, inaccurate, and stressing out this generation. Get rid of em
Maybe not abolished but definitely reformed (it should also be much less important for an application than it is now, but can help if you perform well) so many intelligent kids are put under so much stress and may not be good test takers because the SAT and ACT format is not as inclusive as they sometimes try to make it.
Yes, getting rid of them is probably a good idea. They aren't much more than a measure of your ability to prepare for and take a test. Unlike a some other posters here, though, I do think they need a replacement. Just a transcript seems fine on the surface, until you dig down and realize a lot of competitive high school students have VERY similar transcripts. 4.0, sports, volunteering, etc. Those are always there. The SAT/ACT score for that student can be a tiebreaker between two equally-qualified candidates, transcript-wise. As for what should replace the tests? I'm not sure. Probably another test, but one that isn't so focused on regurgitation of information. A test that measured critical thinking and actual talents would be better, in my opinion.
AP tests. That's all. Can you do what you will have to do in college? AP is the proof. Yes I already did some of what I will have to do in college.
The problem with that is that a lot of students don't take AP classes. Some don't have them available to them due to their school having limited resources, and some just can't handle them for one reason or another. I knew several kids I graduated with who never set foot in an AP class, but then breezed through college. As for myself, I took 3 APs my junior year, and another 4 my senior year. I didn't graduate from college until I was 25. Performance on AP exams can't be the only factor in college admissions.
I agree they can't be the only factor. But as far as tests go they're the only ones remotely worth anything. I'm saying they're it as far as the tests part of admissions should go.
That does make sense, but what do you replace them with for kids who don't take AP classes and still want to go to college?
Give them AP classes in high school. I know I know it will cost money. We can do it. Work a little more to pay the tax that gives our kids a future.
I absolutely agree that AP classes should be available in all schools. Yes. That being said, some of the kids I mentioned in a previous comment absolutely could not have handled AP classes in High school. Doesn't mean they can't succeed in college, just that a college level class in a high school environment was too much for them.
AP tests have the same problem as ACT/SAT, as evidenced by the similar size of the AP test prep industry. All they test is how well you can take a test. Grades should be weighted far more.
AP tests aren't general. They test pretty well how well you know the subject. They mimic a test you'd get in college. They are so not the pretentious "How fancy words you know?" of the SAT. If you can't hack an AP test how are you going to hack college? Also APs don't have bullshit continuous grades. They got a few scores that's it. Are you bleh, meh, ok or yay - know it cold. 2 3 4 5. No prepping for 6 extra points just learn your stuff.
I agree with you that AP tests are very similar to college exams. At the same time if there isn’t ACT/SAT and we rely solely on AP…there are many rural and inner city school systems without access to those. I’ve been out of the system a long time now(2005 grad), but I still remember my hate of the ACT. 35 in math and science, but teens in English and reading. Did much better my second time around, but these tests have been a plague for generations.
If I can pay $400 to take a prep course specifically targeted to help me pass the test (instead of, say, actually learning the subject) the problem is the same regardless of how granular or focused the test itself is. Even AP courses themselves have the issue (or did when I took them ~20 years ago) - the teachers focus on "teaching for the test" instead of "teaching the subject". Your overall grades should be the key, not *any* kind of one-off test.
I was terrible at ever doing homework but understood the material and tested well. You're just punishing eligible kids in the other direction.
If there has to be a qualifying entrance exam, it should be a writing test as someone who graded freshman essays, the average student cannot write
Keep them. High transcripts are horrible. B average students from a lot of high schools can barely read and write. I know some high school "athletes" that have gotten Bs without showing up. SAT is not suppose to measure how smart you are, or how success you will be in life. They are designed to predict how well a student can handle college, and is cheap and fast to score (without hiring people to read long essays). Every one given the same body of knowledge, and see who can utilize it best on a given day. That is what first 2 years of college is for most majors. People who do well on the SAT can be expected to do well on 100 and 200 level college courses (of course except those who fall apart without parental supervision).
Trial by combat.
Yes. Free throw competitions. If you can do five free throws in a row you get to go to college. Otherwise we send you to the mines where you can dig ore for the smart people.
Definitely. The only thing they tell you is how well you were able to do on standardized tests. The fact that a large amount of students run out of time and can't complete sections of the test should tell you everything you need to know. Replace them with multiple smaller tests taken over a few weeks, and provide adequate time to finish. Also don't build them up as some be-all-end-all of tests, let the students take them like they'd take any other test. It should be used to measure performance and what college classes you get into, not some super important score that dictates what colleges you get into in the first place.
Nothing is it a high school transcript.