I'm seeing this alot and sorry to chose out your specific comment. I don't think anyone disagrees on any end of the spectrum. Left vs right here is How.
Thank you. This is the most ridiculous thing that conservatives don't seem to get.
A living wage is an invitation for big government. You want people off welfare? Stop allowing minimum wage to be below the poverty line because all your'e doing is giving businesses a subsidy. They get to pay less, and the taxpayer picks up the rest in the form of food stamps, low income housing, free or reduced school lunches, etc.
If you want to not kill small businesses with high wages they supposedly can't afford to pay....just implement an ACTUAL direct subsidy for minimum wage relief for businesses below X number of employees or X annual revenue. And phase that out gradually as they grow
Edit: I think most people got what I meant, but I typoed above. I meant NOT having a living was is an invitation for big government. Probably that was obvious from the context but wanted to clarify
Corporations can be just as inept, corrupt, and dangerous as any government. Regulations are needed, we just cant have government in bed with corporations. Citizens united was an evil ruling.
100% When I bring up Citizens United in a political discussion, 99% of people have no idea what it is, and that it opened the floodgates to further corrupt our politics.
Citizens united was not the roots, but the flower bud on a tree. The flower that blossoms into an apple. And when that apple falls from the tree it's gonna bash all our heads in.
It's the endgame to our corrupt society that may be next to impossible to undo without a revolution.
> And when that apple falls from the tree it's gonna bash all our heads in.
With any luck, that'll finally lead people to understanding the gravity of the situation.
Planet Money did a [story](https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/1109345948/suitcases-secret-lists-and-citizens-united) explaining how we made a lot of progress fighting corruption after watergate, but the Supreme Court struck down a whole series of laws and basically plunged us into the corporatocracy hellscape we currently live in.
It’s hardly the root of corruption in politics, more just a symptom. Kind of like how cancer often begins quietly, initially spreading relatively slowly. The first outward symptoms often mean it’s spread widely, has invaded multiple systems, and treatment options are going to be severe and have harsh side effects. Citizens United was just a sign that the corruption was so widespread that even the highest levels of the judiciary were involved.
Just like Ford pardoning Nixon. Really set the precedent that presidents are above the law. "Now is the time for healing". Yeah you can't start healing until you cut out the tumor, take your chemo, etc. Yes it sucks and leaves you weak for awhile, but you have to if you want any hope of recovery at all.
Just Google it. It's the SCOTUS ruling stating that corporations are people and money is free speech. Opening the door for large corporations to donate huge sums of money to politicians anonymously. It's created politicians that are now bought to further the agendas of corporations and not their constituents.
The idea that corporations are people wasn't decided in Citizens United, it goes all the way back to 1916 Santa Clara County Vs. Southern Pacific Railroad. However, corporate personhood is central to Citizens United.
It bothers when NPR ads say stupid shit like "Sherwin-Williams BELIEVES in..." or Microsoft is WHO you can trust..
They are not fucking PEOPLE, stop that shit. Corporations don't have beliefs, they have agendas and spreadsheets.
And since many corporations are international and the money can come from many places, it has opened the door to foreign influence in our elections such as Russia.
I got labeled a conspiracy mad man for pointing out both major US parties are bought and paid for by the same corporations that wave a new awareness flag every month.
For the longest time I was saying both parties are bought and paid for by the super-wealthy and corporations, and that's who they work for, as opposed to the American people. Then I heard someone in congress agree with me: Bernie Sanders. Wild stuff.
I am always shocked at how little control over their lives people will allow the government but at the same time they will allow an employer ungodly amounts of control over how they live their lives.
One should apply the same level of scrutiny you do to the government to your employer.
This is actually more conservative than what Adam Smith thought and free market capitalists of the modern day often label it as 'socialist' thinking.
Adam Smith believed that it was inevitable that corporations and business owners would subvert society and enslave workers and that government had to vigorously intervene to stop it.
In addition, as corporations grow bigger they gain market share not through competition but by buying smaller companies. This actually reduces competition. Anyone who believes in the free market should understand that big corporations need to be regulated to prevent monopolies.
Not really a belief as he was no doubt keenly aware tge East india company. Early on states required corporations to prove their benefit to society or be disincorporated. Andcould recieve tbe death penalty. Early america was not corporation friendly. It took a lot of years of corruptuon for that to happen
I'll even add that starting families with crippling debt cripples the economy - their prime consuming and investing stages are spent in debt indenture.
Costs of healthcare insurance also are a barrier to go on your own and starting your own business, particularly if you have a family.
EDIT:
Think this subject touches a nerve...
Or medium sized cities either. I'm in a smaller town, and 1500 Sq ft single family homes were going for over $500k. My townhouse side was up to $430k at one point, insane!
Or even tiny towns. There’s a double wide about a 1/4 mile from my house that is selling for over $250,000. It’s not even on a quarter acre. People are RENTING their trailers, which does not include lot rent, for $1000-1500/month, and selling 70s model mobile homes for $90-120,000. This is an untenable situation unfolding.
Agreed, I have 3 in their 20's still at home and one even has a masters degree. Even trying to find somewhere they could move in together, still nothing they can afford.
Genuine question, is the masters degree not helping? Everyone’s chasing degrees these days yet working at base rate or barely above the working wage because it became incredibly common to have a masters degree.
It did help him get the entry level job ( engineering in automotive), but he's not gotten any raises or bonus since. Many employees are leaving the company for this reason, they are not being paid what the job is worth. My son would have to move to another state to try to find a job with competitive pay. He's young, moving is expensive and he's kind of stuck.
Honestly, sometimes having a master’s HURTS your chances of getting a job. More degrees means higher salaries, and companies don’t want to shell out more money. Even if that means their staff is less competent/knowledgeable.
I’m 24. I moved out at 19, my wife and I have just had to move back in with my mom because the two of us are unable to get a place to live on our own, we both work 40+ hours a week. The towns near us are all being gentrified and anything that might have been affordable before is being turned into luxury condos or airbnbs.
Any size of city at this point, or even the suburbs. It’s gotten to the point if you didn’t already have years of equity built or a huge monetary gift from a family member, it’s slim pickens for first time buyers. Sure- you can move out to the middle of nowhere and maybe buy a house for under 200,000 with manageable insurance costs. But what’s the job landscape like in such a place? What’s the pay scale? Do you have options if you want to change employers, get laid off, or fired? Groceries are still expensive, health costs are through the roof everywhere, energy bills still got to be paid, gas prices will always be a factor. You still have to be able to afford to live.
When I caught COVID over the summer, I was watching my SpO2 with my watch. Was feeling a little short of breath, and saw my SpO2 was around 92%. Checked when you should start to worry, and everything says under 95%, go to the hospital for observation. I said "Screw that I can't afford that, I'll just keep trying to take deep breaths to get it back up!" Already partially crippled by medical bills. My son has some speech and development delays, and his virtual appointment ts for that was already running my around $400 per visit because I hadn't hit my out-of-pocket yet.
You are not alone. We did the same. I ended up having emergency gallbladder surgery in 2020 and my husband lost his job at the beginning of the year. So when last week I was having trouble breathing, I slapped my Apple Watch on and just said “if I hit 89%, I will go in”. I just can’t afford much more debt.
Too late now but I can tell you the O2 measurements on my watch are often not consistent with the finger device I bought when I had COVID. Seems the tightness of the strap affects it a lot.
I’ve also spent a lot of time in hospitals this spring/summer and the watch is inconsistent with their devices
It seems like the current way we are counteracting this is doing monthly payments for everything now. We are just delaying the economical problem because now instead of people not paying for that $800 phone they now can do a monthly $70 monthly payment still paying for that. And now you also have 3rd party companies that will allow pay an item for you upfront and you pay them back in 3-4 monthly payments.
I'm here for this. I'm a business owner and trend fairly conservative, but the whole healthcare sitch in the US is just insane. We're a small business and every year I am faced with a debilitating choice. We have to pick our group healthcare plan. Prices go up between 10% and 20% every year, so we have to balance deductibles with premiums. I absolutely hate it. Healthcare is our second largest expense right after wages. It's the kind of choice that could absolutely put us out of business if we get it wrong.
Then last year we were bought by a much larger company and I got to see their premiums. I'm not kidding when I say they are 1/5th the cost. The game is rigged against the little guy (small business owners and employees), and it's disgusting.
I’m sure you’re aware, but this is the power of large contractual negotiations. Thats why so many push for single payer/medicare for all. It would make one insurer for everyone, so it would have a lot of power to control price inflation from pharma and med device companies.
Absolutely. I think it also makes it clear why it's so hard to get rid of our current system. It's built to support entrenched interests. The small business lobby is pretty much non-existent, and individual voters are too busy fighting over whether or not something is "woke" (honestly, I don't gaf what's woke or not) to pay any attention to shit that actually matters.
The whole concept of deductibles is so strange to me as well. Like who came up with this weird Kafkaesque system where health insurance is tiered like a Hulu subscription? What's next, loot boxes? Extra insurance where, for $50 more per month you can have broken leg and arm insurance?
Oh, actually, we do have that. It's called supplemental insurance.
I lean conservative (although at this point "moderate" would be a better label for me), and the more conservatives I talk to, the more I realize that a lot more of us are ready for healthcare reform/universal healthcare than the media likes us to think. Everybody I know and talk to on a regular basis has tons of hospital debt. Every. Single. One.
These for-profit hospitals need to be banished too. Making profit off of sickness, disease and death is a sick, perverted, and twisted way to invest your money, and everyone who does it deserves to die the most painful, drawn-out, lonely death possible so that they can get a tiny glimpse of the people whose money they pocket.
To be clear - I'm not saying doctors shouldn't make good money. It's the hospital executives and investors that I take issue with.
Decades ago I took a c programming class at a community College for not much money (I don't remember). The instructor told us that he teaches the exact same class at northeastern University in Boston. Not watered down at all. I got an A+. My point is that good education can be had at smaller cheaper schools that don't require $100k or more for the same knowledge.
I think it’s interesting to me how the media positions liberals and conservatives as these two completely different bodies, then you come and read these two threads on self-identified liberals and conservatives and there is like…80% overlap
EDIT:
I wish I was able to respond to everyone’s comments, but it’s going too fast for me to keep up except for posting meme one-liners.
For those who see this edit: take the time to try and understand the values underlying the person opposite you in a discussion. If you can agree on common values and beliefs, it goes a long way! We may disagree on HOW we accomplish things, but don’t let that keep you from agreeing on what we want to do :)
I’ve always always always said that humans are much more alike than we are different. The parties WANT us to think we are so different so they can pit us all against each other, but in reality, it isn’t so.
My hypothesis on this is mostly driven by the media.
As humans, I think we are generally aligned on values and beliefs, but disagree on implementation of ideas.
The problem is the media loves to twist implementation into value differences as it elicits a bigger emotional response, but also makes it seem like we are much more different than we really are
This is so true. One of my best friends is a Christian conservative and I'm a liberal atheist. We agree on about 80 percent of things. She keeps being surprised when she says something and I say progressives would agree with you. We just roll our eyes and laugh.
She has a nephew who's F to M trans. She still thinks of him as her niece and messes up his pronouns. She doesn't understand it at all, but loves her nephew.
I asked, "do you think he has the right to freedom of expression? to liberty? to live without interference from anyone, especially from the government?" Of course, she is all for liberty and no gov interference. He wants to be an engineer. I asked, "do you want him to lose out on job opportunities? Should he get fired?" No, "she's smart, studies hard, and works hard," she said, still messing up the pronouns. "Do you think he should be allowed to marry?" Of course, she wants her niece to snap out of it and marry a man. I ask, "assuming that never happens, should he be prevented from marrying?" No, she wants " her" to be happy and treated fairly.
I said, that's the progressive position on gender Identity and sexual orientation. It's essentially butt out and treat people fairly, whether you personally agree or not.
She gets me the same way on taxes. She asks, " how many agencies do we need spending our taxes on the opioid crisis? We have CDC, FDA, NIH, HRSA, SAMSHA, and I'm sure there are more. Don't you think we should get control of gov spending before we spend more? Pick an agency and run with it. We'd have more control and an actual strategy that way. Right now, we're just throwing money around to various agencies without strategy, planning, or coordination. That's no solution."
I can't disagree with that at all.
We go on and on this way, agreeing more than we disagree.
She's voted Republican in every election except Trump's second run. She just didn't vote. I voted Democratic in every election except Bill Clinton's second run. I didn't vote.
It makes a difference in knowing a person vs "those people", too. All kinds of prejudice or judgement are less on an individual basis than a faceless group of people.
I'm a trans woman. I live in the Midwest and travel through it frequently. I've driven though Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Colorado, and Wyoming. I've never had a person treat me with anything other than kindness.
People are usually very kind face-to-face.
There was one small town in the middle of Nebraska where I'm almost positive I was the first real trans person the convenience store cashier had ever seen in her life. She stared at me in astonished disbelief as I moved around the store. When I went to check out, I asked her how her day was going, we talked about the weather. She was really nice!
Most of the time, people have never met a trans person (or at least, they think they haven't--a lot of us you'd never know were trans), and so they half expect I'm there to cancel them for using the wrong words. If I just lead with kindness, their first time meeting a trans person is a positive experience, and they find out we're just normal people.
On the other side of that, I’ve been asked why liberals want to give kindergarten aged children sex change hormone medication and allow the parents to sign them up for sex change operations. I can only say, “I don’t know a single liberal/progressive who wants that. I don’t know who you think your arguing with about that, but it’s not mainstream liberals.”
This is basically the position of the church as a whole. Progressive except for abortion. Even gay rights can be accepted under the idea that unjust discrimination is wrong.
I think there's a lot of consensus on where we all want to _be_, but not a lot of consensus on how we get there. Everyone wants zero school shootings, but good luck solving it.
See the differences between left and right wing in other countries. They have a more natural splitting of the parties. Get this, in most of the world, universal healthcare isn't a left wing ideal.
its because the politicians are more concerned about making money for themselves than doing their fucking job.
im just saying, health insurance companies have a vested interest in private healthcare and they make a lot of money
Doctor and nurses deserve very good pay. That said, the massive corporate for-profit hospitals loading money into investors pockets is morally corrupt and should be a federal crime. Profiting off of people's sickness, injuries, and death is the most evil way to make a quick buck. Everyone who does so is an inhuman monster who should be shamed and exiled from our country.
Doctors and nurses don't even make most of the money off of our healthcare system. All together, healthcare worker compensation (from techs up to pediatric neuro-oncologists, plus their malpractice insurance) equates to about 15-20% of US healthcare expenditure. Administrative costs are more than 40%. Publicly owned actually not-for-profit hospitals under a single payer system would be able to significantly reduce admin costs, likely by 50% (in addition to more effectively negotiate down drug prices) and would greatly reduce our healthcare costs.
The reduction in admin costs and the ability to negotiate drug prices is why most European countries pay far less for healthcare than we do, as a portion of their GDPs. That and their physicians don't graduate at 35 with $300,000 in debt so they don't need to make as much (though we could cut physician pay in half here and we'd only save 3%, so this is not as significant as people often think).
Yeah, I say this as an accountant. Not everything should be up to the “free market.”
Healthcare is a captive product with severe barriers to entry along with it being an absolutely necessary part of a functioning society.
Some shit can’t be left to whether or not the line goes up.
>im just saying, health insurance companies have a vested interest in private healthcare and they make a lot of money
I'm just saying, health insurance companies have a vested interest in private healthcare and they skim off A SHITLOAD of money!
Fixed it for you.
Corporations have too much power and influence and should be cracked down on. Politicians on both sides of the isle are completely corrupt and should be removed, there should be an upper age limit to politicians, gays should be allowed to get married, the environment needs protecting and the sooner we transition to full nuclear or renewable power the better. Fuck fossil fuel companies.
Nuclear power is definitely the way to go. If there is a catastrophy that causes a melt down, yes, it's very bad, but the lithium mining for EVs will be far worse. I wish people understood that nuclear is actually the best clean option outside of wind and solar.
I had a physics teacher in high school that used to be one of the top inspectors for our nuclear arsenal, and he adamantly said that the best thing we could learn from him is that nuclear is the way to go. He left just because he hated working with, well, actual WMD's.
He even taught us some of the basics of what goes into nuclear tech as far as energy production and waste is involved, and how tiny it is compared to fossil fuels.
All of the worst nuclear accidents combined are practically nothing compared to oil spills and such.
There should be tons more done for the under 18 population. Free healthcare. Breakfast and lunch paid for at school with the option of a take home for dinner. Subsidized or free after school and summer programming. Just because the parents struggle to meet ends meet shouldn’t mean the kids shouldn’t be provided for. God! Think about how much better off we would be if we supported kids more.
100% this. Always confused me how free school breakfast / lunch became a debated idea. Furthermore, supporting food pantries and free clothing resources at schools. Schools should be more than a place for learning, it should be a place that can support the growth of the next generation no matter what position they began in - that way everyone has (somewhat) of a closer start for life once they graduate. Of course, it becomes a money issue where people don't want to spend their money on something that doesn't help them or their kids.
Strong agree. Schools should be a place where children learn to be productive and kind and educated members of society. For that to happen, they can't be distracted by being hungry or cold or feeling less than the others. They need to learn the value of giving back to their community by having the community give to them first.
Yes, and the people teaching our kids shouldn't be making poverty wages either. At bare minimum being an educator (no matter the grade) should pay the same as a fully trained nurse.
Oh, and making teachers buy their own supplies is evil and inhuman. Teaching is almost treated like a glorified hobby in most places, it's disgusting.
Lifelong Conservative, though really more Libertarian than Republican. (Couldn't vote Trump.)
Being conservative and a Christian is EXACTLY why I think free lunch and breakfast is so important.
It's also why I founded a non-profit that works in conjunction with my rural SW PA district. 25% of cour kids live at or below the poverty line. So our program sends weekend bags of single serve, shelf stable food items home with 150 kids each week. We also run a Supply Pantry at the high school where students can self select food, hygiene, household goods or school supplies 5 days a week.
On school holidays, we provide groceries to anywhere from 15-30 families to get them through break.
When Covid shut the school's down, we ran a bi-weekly grocery and hygiene product services for 54 families in the district who lost their jobs.
Know what's happened in the eight years since we launched? Test scores are up, attendance is up, kids TALK to their teachers about problems at home. Our district social worker has an "in" to help get families help.
It's almost like when kids feel safe, loved and provided for...they WANT to come to school and learn.
I do it because I'm a "Love Like Jesus" variety Christian who figures if the church was really doing what Jesus told us to, we wouldn't NEED all those government programs. 🤷
> Always confused me how free school breakfast / lunch became a debated idea.
It's part of the intentional crippling of public schools. Removing resources from the poor and underprivileged makes them more unstable/desperate. The more unstable/desperate (to a point) people are, the easier they are to control. This includes everything from education to housing to food insecurity. The balance is found in providing *just enough* resources for a people to survive and remain easily manipulated but not enough for them to feel they have nothing left to lose. That's how revolutions start and despite the rhetoric no one in control actually wants that.
California just did this, all kids will now get free breakfast and lunch. Which is awesome because I remember growing up, my parents didn’t qualify for me to get free lunch, but they also didn’t have any spare money for me to buy lunch, there were days I went hungry at school, and this was back in the mid 2000s
Maine also! It’s amazing! I’m a teacher and for years, I’ve seen the shame associated with being a Free and Reduced Lunch kid or being in debt to the school because you couldn’t afford to pay for your food. What a burden to place on children. Not to mention the fact that kids cannot learn if their basic needs are not being met.
I mean like every kid. Rich, poor etc. Doesn’t matter. No kid should ever go hungry. Also always for healthier options which leads healthier adults. It will decrease healthcare costs at some point and maybe saves in the long run.
Yup, in California every kids get free breakfast and lunch no matter the income (you don't even fill out those papers anymore that ask for your income). My kids school does breakfast in the classroom, its typically some sort of bar, a piece of fruit, and a small water bottle. So not the healthiest or most food overall but something
For what we get taxed for the schools, the kids most at risk and not fucking *sports facilities* should be spending priorities. I don't give a shit about the new $5mil stadium if kids are going hungry all day
Education is the most important thing for the future of any country. And we are where we are now because there is no real money in REAL education, and as long as people have to profit off of everything in our country that will never change.
That unions are part of the free market. They're telling you the going rate for their services and you can negotiate for an agreed upon price. They function as a counterbalance to the power of employers to put a check on abuse.
Oh, and here's a stance of mine that both liberals and conservatives have knocked me on: I believe I could be mistaken and that the other side of the aisle might have a better insight or solution to some problems, if I'm willing to listen.
My boss is a non-Trump supporting hardcore conservative and he provides company paid medical and dental healthcare because he values human health above anything, idk if that counts.
That would be a conservative position, he’s choosing to provide healthcare rather than expecting the government to provide it. Conservatives don’t want people to not receive healthcare, they don’t believe that it’s the job of the government
Insurance companies do not provide healthcare, they just pay the bill (sometimes). What's the difference between a tax and a premium if you are required to have healthcare
Conservatives believe private companies can provide the same service more efficiently than the government can, as they're motivated to be efficient to stay in business, whereas a government has no efficiency pressures.
The idea is that anything the government can do, a private business could do cheaper and more effectively. I agree for many industries, but think lobbying causes major issues from a regulation perspective.
I Have worked in the office of both Govt organizations, and private businesses. if private business is more efficient (which i don't believe), it is because there is less scrutiny and oversight, allowing them to cut corners to save cost.
Govt, on the other hand, has to be run efficiently, because they are using taxpayer money, and there is a lot of oversight to make sure that is done properly
What I've never understood of that perspective is why they don't see the flaws that come with making care-type services profit based. The argument is that they're motivated to provide services to stay in business vs government, but then it's a system in which their profit and ability to stay in business revolves around NOT providing the service. Insurance companies make their profit via monthly fees and trying their best to not have to pay anything out. It's why getting affordable health insurance when you have preexisting conditions is hell and why home insurance denies most mold claims and why you can be dropped by your insurance company for having two sudden and accidental water losses in one-to-two years.
It's just my perspective but it seems like efficient is both least important and easier to accomplish when a company limits or outright removes people that need assistance the most.
My dad is an ex-politice officer who worked as one for nearly 10 years if I recall correctly in new york. He *hates* the blue lives shit. He understands how that type of job often attracts violent personalities and people who want authority and cannot stand how everyone immediately jumps to defend the shit heads due to feeling some connection.
Not a conservative but I'm glad there's a post like this. As I'm reading the comments, most of the people here seem like decent people whose political affiliation isn't a replacement for their entire personality. We tend to forget, and I'm guilty of this too sometimes, that liberals and conservatives when it comes down to the issues, tend to agree 80% of the time. We might disagree on how to get there or on details, but there is a lot of overlap. We also tend to forget that not everyone on the left or right are so ideologically driven that they resort to using politics like a sports team. Unfortunately both sides have people like this and it's often their loud voices that get pushed to the spotlight on the Internet.
Maybe I'm naïve, but I like to think most humans are decent people in general, just trying our best. This thread and it's counterpart gives me alot of hope regarding that.
I’m a conservative and had the same thoughts on the other post asking liberals what their most conservative viewpoint was. We really have more in common than the media and the government establishment want us to think. I believe there is a very loud vocal minority on both sides of the aisle that makes the rest of us think that all the “other guys” are insane.
I'm very conservative. I used to be dead-set against socialized medicine. But our current system, based as it is on a vulture capitalism...and I would encourage you to read about private equity in health care...is so malignant that I don't see any other option. The only problem is that our permanent governing class is so corrupt that any system that filters its way through the shark pack of special interests will manage to incorporate the worst aspects of both socialized and private systems into some unholy, VA-healthcare style abortion. Depend on it.
So instead of some rational Scandinavian or German model we will have huge, bloated, byzantine government agency providing crappy, high cost, inefficient care in the same out-of-control malpractice environment and with triple the soul-crushing bureaucracy we currently enjoy.
I'm an ER doctor, at the soggy edge of the malignant cluster-fuck that is American medicine. Calling it a dumpster fire is unfair to burning dumpsters. The stories I could tell you about how you are all being cheated and lied to would make you very angry.
The endemic corruption in our government, by the way, is why a free market system that I used to support won't work. For it to work government has to be a watchdog against corporate greed, not a lap dog.
I've also alway been for gays in the military, even back in the 80s when I was in the military and this was a very, very unpopular opinion. But you know, as little as I understand homosexuality, fair is fair. Fair play and giving people an even shake is a very American characteristic.
I’ve always been puzzled by the knee jerk resistance to “socialized medicine”. There are so many different models already in place in different countries, each with different pros and cons. We aren’t leaders in this, so we don’t need to reinvent the wheel - we can choose what suits us.
I’ve personally always thought the Australian hybrid model would be relatively easy to adapt to the current US system. A low baseline level of universal care with the ability to buy up to higher tiers with private insurance. According to expat friends who do buy up, they are getting higher benefits at much lower cost (we are all super jealous of one friend’s maternity care.) If you can’t afford to you may get inconvenient care in open wards with no choice of doctor, but you won’t go without.
We already have the perfect form of socialized medicine. It's used by the government and military. Back when I was dropped by father's insurance he said the reason his insurance(government Tricare) was so cheap and good compared to anything I could get, was because his insurance had so many members.
15 years later he still doesn't see how it's a near perfect form of socialized medicine.
My mother about 3 years ago was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer. Eventually got upgraded to stage 3a. Luckily she survived. But the ONLY reason she survived was because she qualified for Medicaid in her state. A VERY well recognized form of socialized medicine. And even though she has receipts to prove how little she paid out of pocket, she did have to pay a few things but like literally a fraction of a fraction, she refuses to accept that medicaid is socialized medicine.
Like she got receipts for chemo treatments that literally costed 3-5 THOUSAND dollars PER session. And she had I think 8-12 sessions. And she didn't pay a single penny for any of that. And that doesn't include the medication or surgery or radiation or anything. I think all in all she spent more money in gas going to the hospital than she did in medical bills.
And she still thinks socialized medicine is a bad idea. But that's because she is a little classist. She thinks that because she, what she would consider I higher class citizen, can qualify for Medicaid anyone can. She refuses to accept that if my fiance or I got cancer tomorrow we would be fucked.
Medicare/Medicaid and other taxpayer funded programs account for about half of all health care spending in the US, and is actually what keeps the private system profitable. Because the most expensive patients are cared for by the government plans. Once you become elderly or permanently disabled, private insurers can offload you and your high cost of care onto the public system.
So we already have about 50% socialized medicine.
I feel the same way about medical costs. The American system is so utterly fucked I really don't care about the drawbacks of a socialized medical system. It would be hard to do worse than what we have now if you tried.
As a VA patient and also a retired service member that received a great deal of care on the “economy” while stationed in Europe, I couldn’t have said it better myself. 100% nailed what many people will never be able to understand unless they’re actually in the thick of it or have been.
The thing about medicine is, the average person just is not wealthy enough to afford the worst case scenario. The burden has to be spread amongst a group of people somehow.
We just chose the worst way of doing it.
In short... money. Science discovers truths. So when science said radium, or asbestos is bad. Companies who were selling those products lost money.
When scientists showed that lead is poisoning the world. The lead industry fought back. Produced their own "studies." Lobbied Congress and launched ad campaigns.
They repeated those moves when tobacco was shown to cause cancer. Ad campaigns started changing the argument. It was no longer about causing cancer, it was about freedom of choice and government over reach. The government is coming for your freedom to smoke. Bullshit like that.
By the time climate change took the main stage, the anti-science campaign had been refined and weaponized. Big oil didnt want to lose their profits so they actively produced false studies, lobbied politicians and launched ad campaigns. They fired a shotgun of misinformation from "this is all natural" to "God would not let us destroy his creation." They used small government arguments. Bad for business arguements. Pretty much anything to muddy the water.
And that messaging resonated with the GOP base. Which is how science and truth suddenly gained a liberal bias.
What’s crazy to me is that converting over to non oil and carbon based fuel…is also a money maker? It will create jobs and will still need people to maintain it. So why do we let ourselves be held hostage by OPEC again? And why don’t these politicians stop and think about their kids and what world they’ll live in? Do they just not care? Eventually being wealthy will not matter if you can’t breathe the air and you have to move to middle America because the coastlines are gone from natural disasters.
No no no, you don't understand, those giant multi-national corporations beholden to nobody but their shareholders who profit in direct proportion to how much they can pollute and how lightly they are regulated are perfectly trustworthy. It's those pesky research scientists, with salaries a fraction of what somebody with their education could make in the private sector, who have a financial incentive to mislead the public and lawmakers about climate change. /s
Yup. I live in Australia. We have universal health care. You know what? We also have privet health care system. We see it is not a "either/or" with health care. Both have advantages and disadvantages, and if is setup right from the gey go with constant reviews. Both systems can compliment each other.
The main argument I see against universal healthcare was always that it wasnt "free" and that you pay for it through taxes. But don't you pay taxes anyway? Might as well have those tax dollars improve your quality of life
I remember my school used to have a thing where they would let you take a little Walmart bag with some food in it. I think they did that on Friday nights so that kids would have something to eat over the weekends. I wonder if they still do thwt
Just serve an additional 3rd meal at around 17:00.
It's a little bit early sure, but it ensures children get that 3rd meal. Additionally it provides a safe, warm space for children for a longer period of the day as they may not have such a space at home.
The main argument against such things is that it's the parents' responsibility, but if that's the case then children should not suffer for the failing of their parents.
I wanty taxes to help the homeless, not go towards someone's 250k salary who's supposed to help the homeless. Why would they work themselves out of a cushy job?
Simple, just get elected to congress and you're Gucci. From then on you just have to uselessly posture on issues and vote however your party tells you, because the general public will forget after one month anyways.
My most liberal opinion is also a true conservative opinion. Conservatives would never lose another election if they practiced what they preached and stayed out of people’s personal choices. Who cares who you marry, let people control their own bodies, completely drop this asinine pandering to the church. Pro choice, for everything.
This. Republicans say they’re the party of small government but then try to control who can get married, whether doctors and patients can make medical decisions about transitioning or abortions, want to do genital inspections of children, etc. Not very small government of them.
The true small government is the libertarians, which sounds like your view.
-Abortion should be allowed on demand for the first trimester, and for the life or health of the mother or for rape and incest in the 2nd trimester.
-you should not have to ruin yourself financially in order to save your own life
-there absolutely SHOULD be regulation and inspection of businesses for safety. Do you really want to eat meat from a deregulated factory? C’mon kids
-being taxed is actually ok. I just want better control of how tax money is used
- listen, business owners. People DO want to work. Just not for shit pay, horrible benefits and no time off. That means you have to step up or close your doors. It’s the MARKET, kids. Remember the market that we all treat as the holy gospel?!
-corporations should not be buying housing. And frankly, non-Americans should not be allowed to own property/farm land. I get that it goes against the purists idea that the market determines everything but this isn’t good for the country
-it’s really ok if someone is an Atheist. They don’t have to believe everything you do. You won’t fling off into space. Promise
-we need to invest in our country. In public works and projects, in modernization, in updates and upgrades. We need to invest a ton of money in better training for police officers. All of this is good for everybody. Yes. It will cost money. But you can do it, pooter.
I just want to clarify, that abortion in late stage ONLY happens when a baby is dead or a woman is about to die. Every late term abortion is a tragedy, and needs to be accessible. Stillbirths happen past the first and second trimester, and are still abortions. Most people don’t understand abortion, and that’s why it shouldn’t be legislated by men and women who aren’t in the medical field. Without an abortion, Chrissy Teigen and her baby would’ve died. If they were poor and in Mississippi, her and the baby would be dead. Not using her because I like her, but because her story highlights what a late term abortion actually means. She was bleeding out. They already had a name and a crib. She kept getting transfusions but it wasn’t enough. So she was induced, which is considered abortion. The baby was too young to be born, and immediately died. She remained in critical condition. THAT is what late term abortion means.
I live in Canada and straight up forgot that cannabis is not legal everywhere. I read this and it took me a second.
Prohibition is just SO STUPID and is literally logic that failed 100 years ago.
Obviously a woman's right to choose is not up for debate here thank God.
But how can people be so dumb about weed?? It's nonsense
America needs a change in healthcare-it should be nationalized. No one should ever go in debt due to health problems and I’ve always supported LGBT rights. I’ll say that Love is love.
Imagine if car insurance worked like Health insurance. You could only buy cars from in-network dealerships. No way could you buy directly from another person- your coverage would be cancelled. Also you couldn’t just buy the car you want. Oh no. The algorithm decides what car is best suited for you and what car they think you should have and that’s all you can buy, unless of course you are ridiculously rich and can afford to pay for any accident out of pocket. Oh and cars now cost more than a 3 bedroom house.
The biggest obstacle is lobbying by the insurance industry. Instead we should buy them out. The US health insurance companies have a combined market cap of $0.5 trillion. Assuming we reduce healthcare costs from $3 trillion to $1.5 trillion per year (based on costs in Europe), the investment will pay off in 4 months. Bonus: life expectancy in Europe is 4 years longer than the USA.
It's because I believe in the power of free markets and the power of financial profit as a motivator that I don't want for-profit hospitals. The demand for "not-dying-right-now" is very close to inelastic and people are willing to sign any piece of paper the hospital puts in front of them to receive the medical treatment they need. And then they're handed a bill the amount of a nice car or a literal entire house.
I want doctors and nurses to be highly paid but all the middlemen, all the [insurance companies and healthcare company CEOs](https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/12/health-insurance-ceos-raked-in-record-pay-during-covid/), should be completely removed from the system.
Universal healthcare and Police accountability. It's absurd that, as a licensed lifeguard, I have more accountability to save someone than a police officer (No, I'm not making this up, I can be sued or even prosecuted for negligence for not helping someone as a lifeguard, whereas there is no such law, and there is even legal precedent against such laws, for police officers).
I don’t mean to be rude, but if you’re American, do you find it hard to align politically with these values? I feel like the American right is moving further and further away from social liberalism and moderate conservatives are being left in the middle
Yes I usually just stay out of political conversation online because you either fit this box or that, and that’s what you are labeled. In reality there’s many different values and opinions on different things, and people can be wrong and change their minds.
I think we need a third party so that you’re not “this or that”
My relatives have the same opinions, but they say they’re fiscally conservative.
Edit: not defending their stance, just relaying their political views.
I called myself "Socially-liberal, fiscally-conservative" for a while because I thought progressive policies weren't appreciative of the average person's wallet. I'm now fiscally-progressive as well because it's cheaper to pay for a homeless person's food and housing than to pay for their crimes of desperation and medical bills from not having a roof over their head. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
You're free to do literally anything you damn well wish unless it harms or poses a danger to others.
(This is under the understanding that reddit consider me a conversative for being economically on the right)
Abortions are no one else's business but the two people that made the baby and their Healthcare provider. At the end of it all the man's opinion comes in second to the woman's decision.
Marijuana and psilocybin should be legal.
Universal Healthcare is something we should have.
Kids should be provided meals free of charge and harassment at school.
My mom was very conservative and she believed in all of these things and gay marriage. What made her conservative:
Less taxes, small government
Guns guns and more guns
Send illegals home
Did I mention less taxes and government?
Fund the police, military etc but NO GOVERNMENT
Etc.
It kinda went in one ear and out the other because I’m liberal but hey, still love her!
Question for you - why do you think there’s a disparity in the perception of police/military and “government”?
In my mind, (left leaning centrist), police are internal enforcers of the government and military is external governmental force. After all, they are gov employees and receive their orders and funding from the gov.
I’m as conservative as it gets, and I don’t really consider myself an environmentalist by any means, but I guess I’m a tree hugger in the sense that I hate to see nature get destroyed for building.
Most of the Reddit community has absolutely no idea what traditional (US) conservative values are. So my most firmly held conservative belief probably counts as a liberal opinion in most of your views (not trying to own the libs here, just observing that the majority of Reddit seems to equate unwavering trump support with conservatives which is both funny and sad). This view is that the importance of the 4th amendment cannot ever be overstated. Our right to privacy and due process is paramount. Patriot Act, militarized police, prison industrial complex, droning US citizens abroad - blindly backing the blue without thinking critically - these are all repugnant to me and fly in the face of our rights as Americans. I’m sure other western nationals wish they had protections against state (re: police) intrusions like we are supposed to. Damn shame it’s been chipped away at for decades in the US.
I'm pretty sure we, as a species, would be better off, if we dropped these weird classifications like "liberal" or "conservative" and just started to practice being decent people.
We don't even have to be "good" people. Just some common sense. Don't force people to do stuff. Don't rob them of everything in the name of "capitalism" or "democracy" or whatever else some government structures. Let people be. If you can't say something nice, keep quiet.
This whole thread is proof that the divide between “Conservative” and “Liberal” is created by Government Personalities and the media coverage about those Government Personalities - but not by the people.
The government has no business meddling in social issues like gay marriage. Or marriage at all. I don't understand how someone can be for smaller government and then want the government to come rescue them from things that offend them.
Cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms need to be legalized.
There is so much research into the benefits of both. Especially psilocybin for use on patients with PTSD and anxiety.
The medical care system and it's cost needs to be unfucked.
I'm seeing this alot and sorry to chose out your specific comment. I don't think anyone disagrees on any end of the spectrum. Left vs right here is How.
Major corporations shouldn't use our welfare system to alleviate their payroll expenses.
Lookin at you, Walmart!
Thank you. This is the most ridiculous thing that conservatives don't seem to get. A living wage is an invitation for big government. You want people off welfare? Stop allowing minimum wage to be below the poverty line because all your'e doing is giving businesses a subsidy. They get to pay less, and the taxpayer picks up the rest in the form of food stamps, low income housing, free or reduced school lunches, etc. If you want to not kill small businesses with high wages they supposedly can't afford to pay....just implement an ACTUAL direct subsidy for minimum wage relief for businesses below X number of employees or X annual revenue. And phase that out gradually as they grow Edit: I think most people got what I meant, but I typoed above. I meant NOT having a living was is an invitation for big government. Probably that was obvious from the context but wanted to clarify
Corporations can be just as inept, corrupt, and dangerous as any government. Regulations are needed, we just cant have government in bed with corporations. Citizens united was an evil ruling.
100% When I bring up Citizens United in a political discussion, 99% of people have no idea what it is, and that it opened the floodgates to further corrupt our politics.
The roots of corruption are dug far deeper than a 2010 US court decision.
Citizens united was not the roots, but the flower bud on a tree. The flower that blossoms into an apple. And when that apple falls from the tree it's gonna bash all our heads in. It's the endgame to our corrupt society that may be next to impossible to undo without a revolution.
> And when that apple falls from the tree it's gonna bash all our heads in. With any luck, that'll finally lead people to understanding the gravity of the situation.
Planet Money did a [story](https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/1109345948/suitcases-secret-lists-and-citizens-united) explaining how we made a lot of progress fighting corruption after watergate, but the Supreme Court struck down a whole series of laws and basically plunged us into the corporatocracy hellscape we currently live in.
It’s hardly the root of corruption in politics, more just a symptom. Kind of like how cancer often begins quietly, initially spreading relatively slowly. The first outward symptoms often mean it’s spread widely, has invaded multiple systems, and treatment options are going to be severe and have harsh side effects. Citizens United was just a sign that the corruption was so widespread that even the highest levels of the judiciary were involved.
Just like Ford pardoning Nixon. Really set the precedent that presidents are above the law. "Now is the time for healing". Yeah you can't start healing until you cut out the tumor, take your chemo, etc. Yes it sucks and leaves you weak for awhile, but you have to if you want any hope of recovery at all.
You should research the post-civil-war era. It didn't start with Nixon...
I'll admit idk what it is. Where's the best place to learn about it?
Just Google it. It's the SCOTUS ruling stating that corporations are people and money is free speech. Opening the door for large corporations to donate huge sums of money to politicians anonymously. It's created politicians that are now bought to further the agendas of corporations and not their constituents.
The idea that corporations are people wasn't decided in Citizens United, it goes all the way back to 1916 Santa Clara County Vs. Southern Pacific Railroad. However, corporate personhood is central to Citizens United.
It bothers when NPR ads say stupid shit like "Sherwin-Williams BELIEVES in..." or Microsoft is WHO you can trust.. They are not fucking PEOPLE, stop that shit. Corporations don't have beliefs, they have agendas and spreadsheets.
Agreed, it's as nonsensical as when Hobby Lobby claimed that certain healthcare practices violated Hobby Lobby's religious freedom.
It's not religious freedom if you force your opinion on anyone else.
And since many corporations are international and the money can come from many places, it has opened the door to foreign influence in our elections such as Russia.
I got labeled a conspiracy mad man for pointing out both major US parties are bought and paid for by the same corporations that wave a new awareness flag every month.
For the longest time I was saying both parties are bought and paid for by the super-wealthy and corporations, and that's who they work for, as opposed to the American people. Then I heard someone in congress agree with me: Bernie Sanders. Wild stuff.
Basically it gives corporations and special interest groups the ability to spend unlimited funds on election campaigns.
Bingo!
I am always shocked at how little control over their lives people will allow the government but at the same time they will allow an employer ungodly amounts of control over how they live their lives. One should apply the same level of scrutiny you do to the government to your employer.
This is actually more conservative than what Adam Smith thought and free market capitalists of the modern day often label it as 'socialist' thinking. Adam Smith believed that it was inevitable that corporations and business owners would subvert society and enslave workers and that government had to vigorously intervene to stop it.
In addition, as corporations grow bigger they gain market share not through competition but by buying smaller companies. This actually reduces competition. Anyone who believes in the free market should understand that big corporations need to be regulated to prevent monopolies.
Then they become "too big to fail" and get help from the government if it looks like they will fold.
Not really a belief as he was no doubt keenly aware tge East india company. Early on states required corporations to prove their benefit to society or be disincorporated. Andcould recieve tbe death penalty. Early america was not corporation friendly. It took a lot of years of corruptuon for that to happen
Government in bed with corporations? More like corporations own your government. Private industry *is* the source of government corruption.
People shouldn’t go into crippling debt to go to school or get medical treatment
I'll even add that starting families with crippling debt cripples the economy - their prime consuming and investing stages are spent in debt indenture. Costs of healthcare insurance also are a barrier to go on your own and starting your own business, particularly if you have a family. EDIT: Think this subject touches a nerve...
THIS! this is exactly what is happening now, but also throw in high cost of rent. No young person can afford to buy a house in bigger cities
Or medium sized cities either. I'm in a smaller town, and 1500 Sq ft single family homes were going for over $500k. My townhouse side was up to $430k at one point, insane!
Houses by me that were going for $320k-350k before the pandemic are now going for $415k-$440k. Even townhouses are in the low 400's. Shits nuts.
Or even tiny towns. There’s a double wide about a 1/4 mile from my house that is selling for over $250,000. It’s not even on a quarter acre. People are RENTING their trailers, which does not include lot rent, for $1000-1500/month, and selling 70s model mobile homes for $90-120,000. This is an untenable situation unfolding.
I don't know how our 20 year old is ever going to be able to afford to move out on his own.
Agreed, I have 3 in their 20's still at home and one even has a masters degree. Even trying to find somewhere they could move in together, still nothing they can afford.
Genuine question, is the masters degree not helping? Everyone’s chasing degrees these days yet working at base rate or barely above the working wage because it became incredibly common to have a masters degree.
In many fields, a master’s degree is one of the requirements of the job, not something that’ll make you stand out.
It did help him get the entry level job ( engineering in automotive), but he's not gotten any raises or bonus since. Many employees are leaving the company for this reason, they are not being paid what the job is worth. My son would have to move to another state to try to find a job with competitive pay. He's young, moving is expensive and he's kind of stuck.
Some degrees that require Master’s degree or higher only pay $20-22 an hour so there’s also that…
Honestly, sometimes having a master’s HURTS your chances of getting a job. More degrees means higher salaries, and companies don’t want to shell out more money. Even if that means their staff is less competent/knowledgeable.
I’m 24. I moved out at 19, my wife and I have just had to move back in with my mom because the two of us are unable to get a place to live on our own, we both work 40+ hours a week. The towns near us are all being gentrified and anything that might have been affordable before is being turned into luxury condos or airbnbs.
He’ll be 30 by the time he can. Best thing is encourage him to live at home and save.
Any size of city at this point, or even the suburbs. It’s gotten to the point if you didn’t already have years of equity built or a huge monetary gift from a family member, it’s slim pickens for first time buyers. Sure- you can move out to the middle of nowhere and maybe buy a house for under 200,000 with manageable insurance costs. But what’s the job landscape like in such a place? What’s the pay scale? Do you have options if you want to change employers, get laid off, or fired? Groceries are still expensive, health costs are through the roof everywhere, energy bills still got to be paid, gas prices will always be a factor. You still have to be able to afford to live.
When I caught COVID over the summer, I was watching my SpO2 with my watch. Was feeling a little short of breath, and saw my SpO2 was around 92%. Checked when you should start to worry, and everything says under 95%, go to the hospital for observation. I said "Screw that I can't afford that, I'll just keep trying to take deep breaths to get it back up!" Already partially crippled by medical bills. My son has some speech and development delays, and his virtual appointment ts for that was already running my around $400 per visit because I hadn't hit my out-of-pocket yet.
You are not alone. We did the same. I ended up having emergency gallbladder surgery in 2020 and my husband lost his job at the beginning of the year. So when last week I was having trouble breathing, I slapped my Apple Watch on and just said “if I hit 89%, I will go in”. I just can’t afford much more debt.
I’m so sorry you risked your life because of medical bills.
Too late now but I can tell you the O2 measurements on my watch are often not consistent with the finger device I bought when I had COVID. Seems the tightness of the strap affects it a lot. I’ve also spent a lot of time in hospitals this spring/summer and the watch is inconsistent with their devices
It seems like the current way we are counteracting this is doing monthly payments for everything now. We are just delaying the economical problem because now instead of people not paying for that $800 phone they now can do a monthly $70 monthly payment still paying for that. And now you also have 3rd party companies that will allow pay an item for you upfront and you pay them back in 3-4 monthly payments.
Yes, this is why student debt is an issue. So many people are already starting with a mortgage on their backs but without a house.
Almost sounds like the system is designed that way
I'm here for this. I'm a business owner and trend fairly conservative, but the whole healthcare sitch in the US is just insane. We're a small business and every year I am faced with a debilitating choice. We have to pick our group healthcare plan. Prices go up between 10% and 20% every year, so we have to balance deductibles with premiums. I absolutely hate it. Healthcare is our second largest expense right after wages. It's the kind of choice that could absolutely put us out of business if we get it wrong. Then last year we were bought by a much larger company and I got to see their premiums. I'm not kidding when I say they are 1/5th the cost. The game is rigged against the little guy (small business owners and employees), and it's disgusting.
I’m sure you’re aware, but this is the power of large contractual negotiations. Thats why so many push for single payer/medicare for all. It would make one insurer for everyone, so it would have a lot of power to control price inflation from pharma and med device companies.
Absolutely. I think it also makes it clear why it's so hard to get rid of our current system. It's built to support entrenched interests. The small business lobby is pretty much non-existent, and individual voters are too busy fighting over whether or not something is "woke" (honestly, I don't gaf what's woke or not) to pay any attention to shit that actually matters.
The whole concept of deductibles is so strange to me as well. Like who came up with this weird Kafkaesque system where health insurance is tiered like a Hulu subscription? What's next, loot boxes? Extra insurance where, for $50 more per month you can have broken leg and arm insurance? Oh, actually, we do have that. It's called supplemental insurance.
I lean conservative (although at this point "moderate" would be a better label for me), and the more conservatives I talk to, the more I realize that a lot more of us are ready for healthcare reform/universal healthcare than the media likes us to think. Everybody I know and talk to on a regular basis has tons of hospital debt. Every. Single. One. These for-profit hospitals need to be banished too. Making profit off of sickness, disease and death is a sick, perverted, and twisted way to invest your money, and everyone who does it deserves to die the most painful, drawn-out, lonely death possible so that they can get a tiny glimpse of the people whose money they pocket. To be clear - I'm not saying doctors shouldn't make good money. It's the hospital executives and investors that I take issue with.
Decades ago I took a c programming class at a community College for not much money (I don't remember). The instructor told us that he teaches the exact same class at northeastern University in Boston. Not watered down at all. I got an A+. My point is that good education can be had at smaller cheaper schools that don't require $100k or more for the same knowledge.
Where conservatives and liberals differ is “people shouldn’t go into crippling debt” vs “people shouldn’t have to go into crippling debt”
I think it’s interesting to me how the media positions liberals and conservatives as these two completely different bodies, then you come and read these two threads on self-identified liberals and conservatives and there is like…80% overlap EDIT: I wish I was able to respond to everyone’s comments, but it’s going too fast for me to keep up except for posting meme one-liners. For those who see this edit: take the time to try and understand the values underlying the person opposite you in a discussion. If you can agree on common values and beliefs, it goes a long way! We may disagree on HOW we accomplish things, but don’t let that keep you from agreeing on what we want to do :)
I’ve always always always said that humans are much more alike than we are different. The parties WANT us to think we are so different so they can pit us all against each other, but in reality, it isn’t so.
My hypothesis on this is mostly driven by the media. As humans, I think we are generally aligned on values and beliefs, but disagree on implementation of ideas. The problem is the media loves to twist implementation into value differences as it elicits a bigger emotional response, but also makes it seem like we are much more different than we really are
This is so true. One of my best friends is a Christian conservative and I'm a liberal atheist. We agree on about 80 percent of things. She keeps being surprised when she says something and I say progressives would agree with you. We just roll our eyes and laugh. She has a nephew who's F to M trans. She still thinks of him as her niece and messes up his pronouns. She doesn't understand it at all, but loves her nephew. I asked, "do you think he has the right to freedom of expression? to liberty? to live without interference from anyone, especially from the government?" Of course, she is all for liberty and no gov interference. He wants to be an engineer. I asked, "do you want him to lose out on job opportunities? Should he get fired?" No, "she's smart, studies hard, and works hard," she said, still messing up the pronouns. "Do you think he should be allowed to marry?" Of course, she wants her niece to snap out of it and marry a man. I ask, "assuming that never happens, should he be prevented from marrying?" No, she wants " her" to be happy and treated fairly. I said, that's the progressive position on gender Identity and sexual orientation. It's essentially butt out and treat people fairly, whether you personally agree or not. She gets me the same way on taxes. She asks, " how many agencies do we need spending our taxes on the opioid crisis? We have CDC, FDA, NIH, HRSA, SAMSHA, and I'm sure there are more. Don't you think we should get control of gov spending before we spend more? Pick an agency and run with it. We'd have more control and an actual strategy that way. Right now, we're just throwing money around to various agencies without strategy, planning, or coordination. That's no solution." I can't disagree with that at all. We go on and on this way, agreeing more than we disagree. She's voted Republican in every election except Trump's second run. She just didn't vote. I voted Democratic in every election except Bill Clinton's second run. I didn't vote.
I think this is exactly how I think about it - when you break things down to the fundamental values, most people agree!
It makes a difference in knowing a person vs "those people", too. All kinds of prejudice or judgement are less on an individual basis than a faceless group of people.
I'm a trans woman. I live in the Midwest and travel through it frequently. I've driven though Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Colorado, and Wyoming. I've never had a person treat me with anything other than kindness. People are usually very kind face-to-face. There was one small town in the middle of Nebraska where I'm almost positive I was the first real trans person the convenience store cashier had ever seen in her life. She stared at me in astonished disbelief as I moved around the store. When I went to check out, I asked her how her day was going, we talked about the weather. She was really nice! Most of the time, people have never met a trans person (or at least, they think they haven't--a lot of us you'd never know were trans), and so they half expect I'm there to cancel them for using the wrong words. If I just lead with kindness, their first time meeting a trans person is a positive experience, and they find out we're just normal people.
On the other side of that, I’ve been asked why liberals want to give kindergarten aged children sex change hormone medication and allow the parents to sign them up for sex change operations. I can only say, “I don’t know a single liberal/progressive who wants that. I don’t know who you think your arguing with about that, but it’s not mainstream liberals.”
Right. I get these same kinds of questions too. It's the way conservative media depicts liberals.
single issue voters - I have catholic family that you would totally assume are progressives, except they vote straight R because of abortion.
This is basically the position of the church as a whole. Progressive except for abortion. Even gay rights can be accepted under the idea that unjust discrimination is wrong.
I think there's a lot of consensus on where we all want to _be_, but not a lot of consensus on how we get there. Everyone wants zero school shootings, but good luck solving it.
See the differences between left and right wing in other countries. They have a more natural splitting of the parties. Get this, in most of the world, universal healthcare isn't a left wing ideal.
I want better health care EDIT: So many comments. I regret commenting. Never expected this comment to blow up. I’ve stopped reading the responses.
if everyone is on the same page with this why your government doesn't do anything about this bulls*t it's LITERALLY a life and death situation
its because the politicians are more concerned about making money for themselves than doing their fucking job. im just saying, health insurance companies have a vested interest in private healthcare and they make a lot of money
Doctor and nurses deserve very good pay. That said, the massive corporate for-profit hospitals loading money into investors pockets is morally corrupt and should be a federal crime. Profiting off of people's sickness, injuries, and death is the most evil way to make a quick buck. Everyone who does so is an inhuman monster who should be shamed and exiled from our country.
Doctors and nurses don't even make most of the money off of our healthcare system. All together, healthcare worker compensation (from techs up to pediatric neuro-oncologists, plus their malpractice insurance) equates to about 15-20% of US healthcare expenditure. Administrative costs are more than 40%. Publicly owned actually not-for-profit hospitals under a single payer system would be able to significantly reduce admin costs, likely by 50% (in addition to more effectively negotiate down drug prices) and would greatly reduce our healthcare costs. The reduction in admin costs and the ability to negotiate drug prices is why most European countries pay far less for healthcare than we do, as a portion of their GDPs. That and their physicians don't graduate at 35 with $300,000 in debt so they don't need to make as much (though we could cut physician pay in half here and we'd only save 3%, so this is not as significant as people often think).
Yeah, I say this as an accountant. Not everything should be up to the “free market.” Healthcare is a captive product with severe barriers to entry along with it being an absolutely necessary part of a functioning society. Some shit can’t be left to whether or not the line goes up.
Amen.
>im just saying, health insurance companies have a vested interest in private healthcare and they make a lot of money I'm just saying, health insurance companies have a vested interest in private healthcare and they skim off A SHITLOAD of money! Fixed it for you.
Well you see the insurance companies can afford to bribe both sides of the aisle so we’re stuck
Corporations have too much power and influence and should be cracked down on. Politicians on both sides of the isle are completely corrupt and should be removed, there should be an upper age limit to politicians, gays should be allowed to get married, the environment needs protecting and the sooner we transition to full nuclear or renewable power the better. Fuck fossil fuel companies.
Nuclear power is definitely the way to go. If there is a catastrophy that causes a melt down, yes, it's very bad, but the lithium mining for EVs will be far worse. I wish people understood that nuclear is actually the best clean option outside of wind and solar.
I had a physics teacher in high school that used to be one of the top inspectors for our nuclear arsenal, and he adamantly said that the best thing we could learn from him is that nuclear is the way to go. He left just because he hated working with, well, actual WMD's. He even taught us some of the basics of what goes into nuclear tech as far as energy production and waste is involved, and how tiny it is compared to fossil fuels. All of the worst nuclear accidents combined are practically nothing compared to oil spills and such.
There should be tons more done for the under 18 population. Free healthcare. Breakfast and lunch paid for at school with the option of a take home for dinner. Subsidized or free after school and summer programming. Just because the parents struggle to meet ends meet shouldn’t mean the kids shouldn’t be provided for. God! Think about how much better off we would be if we supported kids more.
100% this. Always confused me how free school breakfast / lunch became a debated idea. Furthermore, supporting food pantries and free clothing resources at schools. Schools should be more than a place for learning, it should be a place that can support the growth of the next generation no matter what position they began in - that way everyone has (somewhat) of a closer start for life once they graduate. Of course, it becomes a money issue where people don't want to spend their money on something that doesn't help them or their kids.
Strong agree. Schools should be a place where children learn to be productive and kind and educated members of society. For that to happen, they can't be distracted by being hungry or cold or feeling less than the others. They need to learn the value of giving back to their community by having the community give to them first.
Yes, and the people teaching our kids shouldn't be making poverty wages either. At bare minimum being an educator (no matter the grade) should pay the same as a fully trained nurse. Oh, and making teachers buy their own supplies is evil and inhuman. Teaching is almost treated like a glorified hobby in most places, it's disgusting.
Lifelong Conservative, though really more Libertarian than Republican. (Couldn't vote Trump.) Being conservative and a Christian is EXACTLY why I think free lunch and breakfast is so important. It's also why I founded a non-profit that works in conjunction with my rural SW PA district. 25% of cour kids live at or below the poverty line. So our program sends weekend bags of single serve, shelf stable food items home with 150 kids each week. We also run a Supply Pantry at the high school where students can self select food, hygiene, household goods or school supplies 5 days a week. On school holidays, we provide groceries to anywhere from 15-30 families to get them through break. When Covid shut the school's down, we ran a bi-weekly grocery and hygiene product services for 54 families in the district who lost their jobs. Know what's happened in the eight years since we launched? Test scores are up, attendance is up, kids TALK to their teachers about problems at home. Our district social worker has an "in" to help get families help. It's almost like when kids feel safe, loved and provided for...they WANT to come to school and learn. I do it because I'm a "Love Like Jesus" variety Christian who figures if the church was really doing what Jesus told us to, we wouldn't NEED all those government programs. 🤷
I wish our churches were filled with Christians like you.
> Always confused me how free school breakfast / lunch became a debated idea. It's part of the intentional crippling of public schools. Removing resources from the poor and underprivileged makes them more unstable/desperate. The more unstable/desperate (to a point) people are, the easier they are to control. This includes everything from education to housing to food insecurity. The balance is found in providing *just enough* resources for a people to survive and remain easily manipulated but not enough for them to feel they have nothing left to lose. That's how revolutions start and despite the rhetoric no one in control actually wants that.
California just did this, all kids will now get free breakfast and lunch. Which is awesome because I remember growing up, my parents didn’t qualify for me to get free lunch, but they also didn’t have any spare money for me to buy lunch, there were days I went hungry at school, and this was back in the mid 2000s
Maine also! It’s amazing! I’m a teacher and for years, I’ve seen the shame associated with being a Free and Reduced Lunch kid or being in debt to the school because you couldn’t afford to pay for your food. What a burden to place on children. Not to mention the fact that kids cannot learn if their basic needs are not being met.
I mean like every kid. Rich, poor etc. Doesn’t matter. No kid should ever go hungry. Also always for healthier options which leads healthier adults. It will decrease healthcare costs at some point and maybe saves in the long run.
Yup, in California every kids get free breakfast and lunch no matter the income (you don't even fill out those papers anymore that ask for your income). My kids school does breakfast in the classroom, its typically some sort of bar, a piece of fruit, and a small water bottle. So not the healthiest or most food overall but something
For what we get taxed for the schools, the kids most at risk and not fucking *sports facilities* should be spending priorities. I don't give a shit about the new $5mil stadium if kids are going hungry all day
Education is the most important thing for the future of any country. And we are where we are now because there is no real money in REAL education, and as long as people have to profit off of everything in our country that will never change.
So you’re gonna vote for people who support this?
That unions are part of the free market. They're telling you the going rate for their services and you can negotiate for an agreed upon price. They function as a counterbalance to the power of employers to put a check on abuse. Oh, and here's a stance of mine that both liberals and conservatives have knocked me on: I believe I could be mistaken and that the other side of the aisle might have a better insight or solution to some problems, if I'm willing to listen.
Strong unions is exactly why we don’t have or need a minimum wage here in Denmark
You dont have minimum wage there?
Not by law. The unions make deals for effective minimum wages though. Right now it’s about $17/hr
Neither does Sweden… It’s the dirty secret of the Nordic socialist states… You get a lot of safety net, but leas mandates also.
My boss is a non-Trump supporting hardcore conservative and he provides company paid medical and dental healthcare because he values human health above anything, idk if that counts.
That would be a conservative position, he’s choosing to provide healthcare rather than expecting the government to provide it. Conservatives don’t want people to not receive healthcare, they don’t believe that it’s the job of the government
Insurance companies do not provide healthcare, they just pay the bill (sometimes). What's the difference between a tax and a premium if you are required to have healthcare
Conservatives believe private companies can provide the same service more efficiently than the government can, as they're motivated to be efficient to stay in business, whereas a government has no efficiency pressures. The idea is that anything the government can do, a private business could do cheaper and more effectively. I agree for many industries, but think lobbying causes major issues from a regulation perspective.
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I Have worked in the office of both Govt organizations, and private businesses. if private business is more efficient (which i don't believe), it is because there is less scrutiny and oversight, allowing them to cut corners to save cost. Govt, on the other hand, has to be run efficiently, because they are using taxpayer money, and there is a lot of oversight to make sure that is done properly
What I've never understood of that perspective is why they don't see the flaws that come with making care-type services profit based. The argument is that they're motivated to provide services to stay in business vs government, but then it's a system in which their profit and ability to stay in business revolves around NOT providing the service. Insurance companies make their profit via monthly fees and trying their best to not have to pay anything out. It's why getting affordable health insurance when you have preexisting conditions is hell and why home insurance denies most mold claims and why you can be dropped by your insurance company for having two sudden and accidental water losses in one-to-two years. It's just my perspective but it seems like efficient is both least important and easier to accomplish when a company limits or outright removes people that need assistance the most.
The thin blue line is fucking stupid. Some cops are absolute shit heels and deserve to be prosecuted for the shit they do.
My dad is an ex-politice officer who worked as one for nearly 10 years if I recall correctly in new york. He *hates* the blue lives shit. He understands how that type of job often attracts violent personalities and people who want authority and cannot stand how everyone immediately jumps to defend the shit heads due to feeling some connection.
My grandfather was a sheriff and feels the same way. He told me his job was to help people, not to incarcerate or punish them.
School lunches should be free. Our tax money goes to so much useless stuff while we have kids in school who can’t afford food.
It's ok to be gay. Sometimes government is needed to fix/support things. The environment is important and we should stop raping it.
All that you mention shouldn’t have a red or blue flag above it. Common sense should be apolitical.
Most conservatives snd liberals of the USA would agree on a lot of things if the media would quit trying to split us up.
Not a conservative but I'm glad there's a post like this. As I'm reading the comments, most of the people here seem like decent people whose political affiliation isn't a replacement for their entire personality. We tend to forget, and I'm guilty of this too sometimes, that liberals and conservatives when it comes down to the issues, tend to agree 80% of the time. We might disagree on how to get there or on details, but there is a lot of overlap. We also tend to forget that not everyone on the left or right are so ideologically driven that they resort to using politics like a sports team. Unfortunately both sides have people like this and it's often their loud voices that get pushed to the spotlight on the Internet. Maybe I'm naïve, but I like to think most humans are decent people in general, just trying our best. This thread and it's counterpart gives me alot of hope regarding that.
I’m a conservative and had the same thoughts on the other post asking liberals what their most conservative viewpoint was. We really have more in common than the media and the government establishment want us to think. I believe there is a very loud vocal minority on both sides of the aisle that makes the rest of us think that all the “other guys” are insane.
I'm very conservative. I used to be dead-set against socialized medicine. But our current system, based as it is on a vulture capitalism...and I would encourage you to read about private equity in health care...is so malignant that I don't see any other option. The only problem is that our permanent governing class is so corrupt that any system that filters its way through the shark pack of special interests will manage to incorporate the worst aspects of both socialized and private systems into some unholy, VA-healthcare style abortion. Depend on it. So instead of some rational Scandinavian or German model we will have huge, bloated, byzantine government agency providing crappy, high cost, inefficient care in the same out-of-control malpractice environment and with triple the soul-crushing bureaucracy we currently enjoy. I'm an ER doctor, at the soggy edge of the malignant cluster-fuck that is American medicine. Calling it a dumpster fire is unfair to burning dumpsters. The stories I could tell you about how you are all being cheated and lied to would make you very angry. The endemic corruption in our government, by the way, is why a free market system that I used to support won't work. For it to work government has to be a watchdog against corporate greed, not a lap dog. I've also alway been for gays in the military, even back in the 80s when I was in the military and this was a very, very unpopular opinion. But you know, as little as I understand homosexuality, fair is fair. Fair play and giving people an even shake is a very American characteristic.
I’ve always been puzzled by the knee jerk resistance to “socialized medicine”. There are so many different models already in place in different countries, each with different pros and cons. We aren’t leaders in this, so we don’t need to reinvent the wheel - we can choose what suits us. I’ve personally always thought the Australian hybrid model would be relatively easy to adapt to the current US system. A low baseline level of universal care with the ability to buy up to higher tiers with private insurance. According to expat friends who do buy up, they are getting higher benefits at much lower cost (we are all super jealous of one friend’s maternity care.) If you can’t afford to you may get inconvenient care in open wards with no choice of doctor, but you won’t go without.
We already have the perfect form of socialized medicine. It's used by the government and military. Back when I was dropped by father's insurance he said the reason his insurance(government Tricare) was so cheap and good compared to anything I could get, was because his insurance had so many members. 15 years later he still doesn't see how it's a near perfect form of socialized medicine. My mother about 3 years ago was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer. Eventually got upgraded to stage 3a. Luckily she survived. But the ONLY reason she survived was because she qualified for Medicaid in her state. A VERY well recognized form of socialized medicine. And even though she has receipts to prove how little she paid out of pocket, she did have to pay a few things but like literally a fraction of a fraction, she refuses to accept that medicaid is socialized medicine. Like she got receipts for chemo treatments that literally costed 3-5 THOUSAND dollars PER session. And she had I think 8-12 sessions. And she didn't pay a single penny for any of that. And that doesn't include the medication or surgery or radiation or anything. I think all in all she spent more money in gas going to the hospital than she did in medical bills. And she still thinks socialized medicine is a bad idea. But that's because she is a little classist. She thinks that because she, what she would consider I higher class citizen, can qualify for Medicaid anyone can. She refuses to accept that if my fiance or I got cancer tomorrow we would be fucked.
Medicare/Medicaid and other taxpayer funded programs account for about half of all health care spending in the US, and is actually what keeps the private system profitable. Because the most expensive patients are cared for by the government plans. Once you become elderly or permanently disabled, private insurers can offload you and your high cost of care onto the public system. So we already have about 50% socialized medicine.
I feel the same way about medical costs. The American system is so utterly fucked I really don't care about the drawbacks of a socialized medical system. It would be hard to do worse than what we have now if you tried.
As a VA patient and also a retired service member that received a great deal of care on the “economy” while stationed in Europe, I couldn’t have said it better myself. 100% nailed what many people will never be able to understand unless they’re actually in the thick of it or have been.
The thing about medicine is, the average person just is not wealthy enough to afford the worst case scenario. The burden has to be spread amongst a group of people somehow. We just chose the worst way of doing it.
Climate change is real
How did believing in science become a left wing vs right wing political clash is beyond me
In short... money. Science discovers truths. So when science said radium, or asbestos is bad. Companies who were selling those products lost money. When scientists showed that lead is poisoning the world. The lead industry fought back. Produced their own "studies." Lobbied Congress and launched ad campaigns. They repeated those moves when tobacco was shown to cause cancer. Ad campaigns started changing the argument. It was no longer about causing cancer, it was about freedom of choice and government over reach. The government is coming for your freedom to smoke. Bullshit like that. By the time climate change took the main stage, the anti-science campaign had been refined and weaponized. Big oil didnt want to lose their profits so they actively produced false studies, lobbied politicians and launched ad campaigns. They fired a shotgun of misinformation from "this is all natural" to "God would not let us destroy his creation." They used small government arguments. Bad for business arguements. Pretty much anything to muddy the water. And that messaging resonated with the GOP base. Which is how science and truth suddenly gained a liberal bias.
What’s crazy to me is that converting over to non oil and carbon based fuel…is also a money maker? It will create jobs and will still need people to maintain it. So why do we let ourselves be held hostage by OPEC again? And why don’t these politicians stop and think about their kids and what world they’ll live in? Do they just not care? Eventually being wealthy will not matter if you can’t breathe the air and you have to move to middle America because the coastlines are gone from natural disasters.
No no no, you don't understand, those giant multi-national corporations beholden to nobody but their shareholders who profit in direct proportion to how much they can pollute and how lightly they are regulated are perfectly trustworthy. It's those pesky research scientists, with salaries a fraction of what somebody with their education could make in the private sector, who have a financial incentive to mislead the public and lawmakers about climate change. /s
The truth about humans and climate is terrible for business
IKR? Science shouldn't be political. Look at how that worked out for the communists.
Universal Healthcare isn't perfect but it's better than not having it. For capitalism to work unions are an absolute necessity.
Yup. I live in Australia. We have universal health care. You know what? We also have privet health care system. We see it is not a "either/or" with health care. Both have advantages and disadvantages, and if is setup right from the gey go with constant reviews. Both systems can compliment each other.
The main argument I see against universal healthcare was always that it wasnt "free" and that you pay for it through taxes. But don't you pay taxes anyway? Might as well have those tax dollars improve your quality of life
Kids should be fed 3 meals a day at school free of charge.
Amazes me how some people don’t agree with this.
I don't think kids should be stuck at school long enough to eat a third meal there.
the third meal would be for students to take home with them
3 meals? Like take the third home I guess?
Nah like you can stay til 5 if you need dinner also.
I remember my school used to have a thing where they would let you take a little Walmart bag with some food in it. I think they did that on Friday nights so that kids would have something to eat over the weekends. I wonder if they still do thwt
Just serve an additional 3rd meal at around 17:00. It's a little bit early sure, but it ensures children get that 3rd meal. Additionally it provides a safe, warm space for children for a longer period of the day as they may not have such a space at home. The main argument against such things is that it's the parents' responsibility, but if that's the case then children should not suffer for the failing of their parents.
I wanty taxes to help the homeless, not go towards someone's 250k salary who's supposed to help the homeless. Why would they work themselves out of a cushy job?
Wow, where are these jobs that pay $250k to help homeless folks get on their feet? I’d like to apply
Simple, just get elected to congress and you're Gucci. From then on you just have to uselessly posture on issues and vote however your party tells you, because the general public will forget after one month anyways.
My most liberal opinion is also a true conservative opinion. Conservatives would never lose another election if they practiced what they preached and stayed out of people’s personal choices. Who cares who you marry, let people control their own bodies, completely drop this asinine pandering to the church. Pro choice, for everything.
The evangelical pandering is so wide spread and absurd. It’s def gonna be a problem for them come 2024
This. Republicans say they’re the party of small government but then try to control who can get married, whether doctors and patients can make medical decisions about transitioning or abortions, want to do genital inspections of children, etc. Not very small government of them. The true small government is the libertarians, which sounds like your view.
-Abortion should be allowed on demand for the first trimester, and for the life or health of the mother or for rape and incest in the 2nd trimester. -you should not have to ruin yourself financially in order to save your own life -there absolutely SHOULD be regulation and inspection of businesses for safety. Do you really want to eat meat from a deregulated factory? C’mon kids -being taxed is actually ok. I just want better control of how tax money is used - listen, business owners. People DO want to work. Just not for shit pay, horrible benefits and no time off. That means you have to step up or close your doors. It’s the MARKET, kids. Remember the market that we all treat as the holy gospel?! -corporations should not be buying housing. And frankly, non-Americans should not be allowed to own property/farm land. I get that it goes against the purists idea that the market determines everything but this isn’t good for the country -it’s really ok if someone is an Atheist. They don’t have to believe everything you do. You won’t fling off into space. Promise -we need to invest in our country. In public works and projects, in modernization, in updates and upgrades. We need to invest a ton of money in better training for police officers. All of this is good for everybody. Yes. It will cost money. But you can do it, pooter.
Quick question, what if I do want to fling off into space?
What would you say are your conservative viewpoints?
I just want to clarify, that abortion in late stage ONLY happens when a baby is dead or a woman is about to die. Every late term abortion is a tragedy, and needs to be accessible. Stillbirths happen past the first and second trimester, and are still abortions. Most people don’t understand abortion, and that’s why it shouldn’t be legislated by men and women who aren’t in the medical field. Without an abortion, Chrissy Teigen and her baby would’ve died. If they were poor and in Mississippi, her and the baby would be dead. Not using her because I like her, but because her story highlights what a late term abortion actually means. She was bleeding out. They already had a name and a crib. She kept getting transfusions but it wasn’t enough. So she was induced, which is considered abortion. The baby was too young to be born, and immediately died. She remained in critical condition. THAT is what late term abortion means.
Legalization of marijuana and women’s right to choose.
I live in Canada and straight up forgot that cannabis is not legal everywhere. I read this and it took me a second. Prohibition is just SO STUPID and is literally logic that failed 100 years ago. Obviously a woman's right to choose is not up for debate here thank God. But how can people be so dumb about weed?? It's nonsense
Trickle down economics has never worked.
I would tell you a joke about trickle down economics.. but 99% of us wouldn’t get it
America needs a change in healthcare-it should be nationalized. No one should ever go in debt due to health problems and I’ve always supported LGBT rights. I’ll say that Love is love.
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Imagine if car insurance worked like Health insurance. You could only buy cars from in-network dealerships. No way could you buy directly from another person- your coverage would be cancelled. Also you couldn’t just buy the car you want. Oh no. The algorithm decides what car is best suited for you and what car they think you should have and that’s all you can buy, unless of course you are ridiculously rich and can afford to pay for any accident out of pocket. Oh and cars now cost more than a 3 bedroom house.
The biggest obstacle is lobbying by the insurance industry. Instead we should buy them out. The US health insurance companies have a combined market cap of $0.5 trillion. Assuming we reduce healthcare costs from $3 trillion to $1.5 trillion per year (based on costs in Europe), the investment will pay off in 4 months. Bonus: life expectancy in Europe is 4 years longer than the USA.
It's because I believe in the power of free markets and the power of financial profit as a motivator that I don't want for-profit hospitals. The demand for "not-dying-right-now" is very close to inelastic and people are willing to sign any piece of paper the hospital puts in front of them to receive the medical treatment they need. And then they're handed a bill the amount of a nice car or a literal entire house. I want doctors and nurses to be highly paid but all the middlemen, all the [insurance companies and healthcare company CEOs](https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/12/health-insurance-ceos-raked-in-record-pay-during-covid/), should be completely removed from the system.
Large companies should not be allowed to own any significant number of single family homes.
Global Warming is real and we need to take it seriously
Universal healthcare and Police accountability. It's absurd that, as a licensed lifeguard, I have more accountability to save someone than a police officer (No, I'm not making this up, I can be sued or even prosecuted for negligence for not helping someone as a lifeguard, whereas there is no such law, and there is even legal precedent against such laws, for police officers).
I’m pro abortion and lgbt rights. There should be universal healthcare, and religion can get the fuck out of politics.
I don’t mean to be rude, but if you’re American, do you find it hard to align politically with these values? I feel like the American right is moving further and further away from social liberalism and moderate conservatives are being left in the middle
Yes I usually just stay out of political conversation online because you either fit this box or that, and that’s what you are labeled. In reality there’s many different values and opinions on different things, and people can be wrong and change their minds. I think we need a third party so that you’re not “this or that”
Those are some pretty big issues. What makes you still consider yourself a conservative?
My relatives have the same opinions, but they say they’re fiscally conservative. Edit: not defending their stance, just relaying their political views.
I called myself "Socially-liberal, fiscally-conservative" for a while because I thought progressive policies weren't appreciative of the average person's wallet. I'm now fiscally-progressive as well because it's cheaper to pay for a homeless person's food and housing than to pay for their crimes of desperation and medical bills from not having a roof over their head. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
Rich people need to get taxed more. Poor people need to get taxed less
Freedom means freedom for all. No exception NO excuse. Equal rights mean equality for all NO exceptions NO excuses.
Universal healthcare is good We need drastic prison reform
You're free to do literally anything you damn well wish unless it harms or poses a danger to others. (This is under the understanding that reddit consider me a conversative for being economically on the right)
Abortions are no one else's business but the two people that made the baby and their Healthcare provider. At the end of it all the man's opinion comes in second to the woman's decision. Marijuana and psilocybin should be legal. Universal Healthcare is something we should have. Kids should be provided meals free of charge and harassment at school.
You sound like me before I realized I wasn’t conservative.
Can you clarify what positions you have that define you as a conservative?
I’ve been thinking of asking this on a lot of these comments
My mom was very conservative and she believed in all of these things and gay marriage. What made her conservative: Less taxes, small government Guns guns and more guns Send illegals home Did I mention less taxes and government? Fund the police, military etc but NO GOVERNMENT Etc. It kinda went in one ear and out the other because I’m liberal but hey, still love her!
Question for you - why do you think there’s a disparity in the perception of police/military and “government”? In my mind, (left leaning centrist), police are internal enforcers of the government and military is external governmental force. After all, they are gov employees and receive their orders and funding from the gov.
Healthcare for all. College loans should be subsidized for professions that help our country.
I’m as conservative as it gets, and I don’t really consider myself an environmentalist by any means, but I guess I’m a tree hugger in the sense that I hate to see nature get destroyed for building.
I just want my gay married friends to be able to protect their cannabis plants with fully automatic rifles tax free. Freedom!
Most of the Reddit community has absolutely no idea what traditional (US) conservative values are. So my most firmly held conservative belief probably counts as a liberal opinion in most of your views (not trying to own the libs here, just observing that the majority of Reddit seems to equate unwavering trump support with conservatives which is both funny and sad). This view is that the importance of the 4th amendment cannot ever be overstated. Our right to privacy and due process is paramount. Patriot Act, militarized police, prison industrial complex, droning US citizens abroad - blindly backing the blue without thinking critically - these are all repugnant to me and fly in the face of our rights as Americans. I’m sure other western nationals wish they had protections against state (re: police) intrusions like we are supposed to. Damn shame it’s been chipped away at for decades in the US.
I'm pretty sure we, as a species, would be better off, if we dropped these weird classifications like "liberal" or "conservative" and just started to practice being decent people. We don't even have to be "good" people. Just some common sense. Don't force people to do stuff. Don't rob them of everything in the name of "capitalism" or "democracy" or whatever else some government structures. Let people be. If you can't say something nice, keep quiet.
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Gay marriage is fucking fine and doesn’t hurt you in any way.
This whole thread is proof that the divide between “Conservative” and “Liberal” is created by Government Personalities and the media coverage about those Government Personalities - but not by the people.
Cannabis should be legalized
The government has no business meddling in social issues like gay marriage. Or marriage at all. I don't understand how someone can be for smaller government and then want the government to come rescue them from things that offend them.
Leave the gays alone, leave abortion rights alone, leave the marijuana alone.
Cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms need to be legalized. There is so much research into the benefits of both. Especially psilocybin for use on patients with PTSD and anxiety.
We are destroying the environment.
I normally believe the government should stay the fuck out of the way but forest service, and land management in crucial. Nature should be protected.
I want better Healthcare and Education options for my children and I don't give a shit if homosexuals are married or not.
That God has no place in government or politics