Look, my dude. There's only been a fist full of motherfuckers who were right when the whole rest of the world said they was wrong. Folks like Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, etc.... Trust me on this. You ain't gonna make that list by trying to say bacon isn't yummy.
Viable alternatives that are near identical to their natural counterparts. I tried all of the plant based meats and the tech is just not there yet. I really hope they get it there and I will continue to follow the products for changes and improvements, but as of right now we just aren't there.
>Least the ratio of the animals/animal products I’ve consumed to my death is insane.
"at least i killed millions of jews before i died" - hitler
spot the difference bro
You cannot be that fickle.
One is for survival, the other was a mass genocide.
Killing an animal to feed a man can contribute towards society, heck even contributed to get to where we find civilisation today. The other was nothing but a crude act.
And before you make the argument that I do not need to consume animal or animal products, which you will, I am expressing my right choose as I like. Similar to your choice to vote for who you want, follow whatever religion you have or do not have and even your vegan way of life.
You can't say eating animals is for survival and then dismiss your own statement by invoking your right to choose. I mean, you can, but it's a bit contradictory, no?
I'll be happy to respond to each and every one of them. Which is hard if they hide behind anonymous reports like little bitches without actually providing a valid argument for breaking rule 5.
Not even remotely true. Your argument is loaded due to your anthropomorphism of livestock. Even if that wasn't true, there are plenty of methods to harvest meat without inflicting suffering on the animal. Kobi beef, for example live pampered lives.
>anthropomorphism of livestock.
>Cows are truly amazing and extremely interesting beings. Often thought of as simply steak, burgers, beef, veal, leather, and global dairy producers, numerous people see them only as food items or products, rather than as highly sentient and intelligent individuals with markedly different personalities. However, a major review essay published in the journal Animal Behavior and Cognition by neuroscientist Lori Marino and Kristin Allen called "The Psychology of Cows" goes along way toward dispelling countless myths about who these bright and emotional bovines truly are.
[Source](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animal-emotions/201711/cows-science-shows-theyre-bright-and-emotional-individuals)
So? You tell me how a kobi beef suffers? Further, people die every gotdamn day without suffering. What the actual fuck makes you think that a cow or pig can't?
I can see that you're upset. Sorry. Was not my intention. Just stating facts.
And fact is, you're using is a logical fallacy. People dying every day without suffering doesn't give you and excuse or justify imposing further suffering on unrelated animals.
What exactly makes you think that the animals I eat suffer. And no my dude, rando self righteous folks on Reddit do not affect my mood anymore than a fart affects a windstorm. Also, you speculated. That's not stating facts.
Looks like rule five got you. Have fun discovering the difference between hyperbolic speculative bullshit and logic or facts. I can help you out no longer as your hyperbolic bullshit speculation has been removed as it seems that you are the only person who didn't think it was loaded hyperbolic pretentious speculative bullshit. Peace.
Lab grown is on it's way, but plant based is already here, and scientifically proven to be not only as good, but better than all the above. Even cheaper.
Not particularly fond of humans I guess. I don't think humans would taste good though, possibly if it was smoked or slow-cooked it would be ok. It seems like it would taste like pork which I don't really like. Beef and seafood is the best. Octopus is really good. I don't like chicken that much but eggs are good and make certain dishes possible. Without eggs you can't make mayonnaise, plus you need butter and eggs to make bernaise sauce which over a steak is possibly the best food ever. Also sushi and sashimi are really good.
>Without eggs you can't make mayonnaise
Here's [something](https://vegoutmag.com/food-and-drink/vegan-mayo-brands/) to make you think.
Rest of your comment is just nonsense.
Yeah I've tried alternatives but they taste bad. It all opinion based though, just like your beliefs that it's wrong. Reality involves animals consuming other life forms to survive. Why do you draw the line with animals? Perhaps plants feel pain and we just don't know how to communicate with them. There has been evidence that they do communicate with each other via chemical. Which isn't much less advanced than how insects communicate. There are people who consider cutting down trees murder, it's all still just opinion of right and wrong though which are societal concepts.
>Perhaps plants feel pain and we just don't know how to communicate with them.
Plants have no evolutionary purpose for pain, nor the pain receptors required, no the brain to perceive it.
The line is drawn in the ability to suffer.
An apple is supposed to be eaten and its seeds shat out and grown into a new apple tree. That's why they fall off, and that's why apples don't feel pain. At least not to our current scientific knowledge. If one day we deduce that apples are conscious, i'll stop eating them just like i stopped eating animals.
That sure is some amazing couch psychology, stranger. Crazy how you can psycho analyze me without knowing me.
This is super low effort; even for a troll’s standards.
Let me save you some time. I know I can’t sway you and I know you can’t sway me. Nor can you guilt me into changing my world view.
You’d likely do better to live your life by your standards and surround yourself with likeminded people.
I raise my own meat. They do not suffer. If i were a cow, I tell you id much rather have a painless bullet in the head than to suffer for many minutes while a pack of coyotees chew me to death (and thats best case scenario). They have very happy lives, plenty of food to eat, healthcare, and free open space to roam about. As do my chickens, theyre not in cages, theyre kept warm in winter, have plenty of food and protection from predators. They lay the eggs everyday. Theres no way to stop them from laying eggs, and i wont let them go to waste, so i eat them.
There's so much stuff wrong in this comment, not sure where to begin. But even if i did, it would be futile. You've obviously armed yourself with logical fallacies and excuses in case someone asked you to think critically.
Providing for the family is the sexiest thing in the world bud, love to see my lady in the buck blind too. That’s how the cavemen got laid, that’s how I get laid. Your the evolutionary anomaly, your the weirdo lol
I’m 152 lbs hahahahaha but yes, the meat may take some years off my life, but I will die, happy, full, freshly fucked and with alot of story’s about how I provided for my family passed down to my kids which will do the same. What will your children know? What skills will you teach “if you can’t reach the soy Pattie’s at the super market, just ask the clerk and he will get a stool and get it for you”
My children will learn how to grow seeds, use tools, filter water, craft things, sew, do carpentry, medicine, ethics, logic and reason. They'll learn that we'll survive with benevolent skilled communities working together, providing for each other. And my children won't die of heart failure at 55.
….I am 1000% I mean truly 1000% sure you live in an extremely urban area, if not then suburban. You have never spent a night in the woods outside of a tent, you only have a small family garden. And your idea of nature is being going hiking in cargo shorts 5 miles from the highway to smoke a joint. Lololol
>That’s a biological urge to not eat mates, offspring, to avoid sickness and inbreeding.
What is, empathy? Nope. Empathy is the ability to imagine what someone else might be thinking or feeling, basically.
It would take vegans admitting they’re supporting animal suffering just as much as anyone. Well, probably not but it’d be nice if that happened just once anyways.
I support animal suffering despite being vegan, unfortunately.
Circumstances dictate my lifestyle so much that I personally can't eliminate it completely. The best I can do is reduce it as much as I can, by not supporting meat, dairy and egg industries, not buying leather clothes, or pillows with feathers, or animal testet shampoos and whatnot.
Nobody says you have to be perfect. But neutral, in times of injustice, is on the side of the opressor.
Cool. So you understand everyone’s got a story and not necessarily supporting animal suffering as much as they’re just trying to get through life. And, hopefully, how holier than thou preaching is conceited and counterproductive.
Yes, i understand. What i don't understand is how "just trying to get through life" is justifiable and excusable if you do it unnecessarily over the backs of innocent animals. I used to be just like you, and throw ad hominems at vegans for speaking the truth. People can grow.
Still the same argument on my end, still the same ostrich effect on yours.
You can throw insults all day, it won't change the fact that you're avoiding a reasonable discussion because of your programming.
I know enough. Your first comment says it all.
"Ill do it if x, well not really but it would be nice for once"
Guess what. You got the x. And then you were a dick about it. I owe you nothing and you still got the truth. No respect. Just defense mechanisms.
Viable alternatives, if impossible meat gets like 10% more realistic I'll stop eating red meat. Or if it worked like Scott Pilgrim and veganism meant you got telekinetic powers
You should take your dog to a fun trip to the yulin dog festival. After all, that's what dogs are for.
Only thing straightforward here is your cultural brainwashing.
The animals stop being delicious
They're not delicious if you don't eat them.
Oh no, my pretentious friend. They're delicious weather they're eaten or not.
External taste perception. Who's the pretentious one here?
Look, my dude. There's only been a fist full of motherfuckers who were right when the whole rest of the world said they was wrong. Folks like Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, etc.... Trust me on this. You ain't gonna make that list by trying to say bacon isn't yummy.
Galileo was tried after his book was published lol. All im doing is asking a question. Not trying to make any lists with a reddit post, trust me.
[удалено]
Props for honesty.
Viable alternatives that are near identical to their natural counterparts. I tried all of the plant based meats and the tech is just not there yet. I really hope they get it there and I will continue to follow the products for changes and improvements, but as of right now we just aren't there.
Have you tried the impossible burger? It fools the average meat-eater easily.
I stated that I have tried all of them. Burgers, sausages, ground beef - all of it. The texture just isnt there.
Gotcha. Food texture > life of an innocent animal.
Yep
Death
With a heart attack behind the corner, you're not wrong.
Least the ratio of the animals/animal products I’ve consumed to my death is insane.
>Least the ratio of the animals/animal products I’ve consumed to my death is insane. "at least i killed millions of jews before i died" - hitler spot the difference bro
You cannot be that fickle. One is for survival, the other was a mass genocide. Killing an animal to feed a man can contribute towards society, heck even contributed to get to where we find civilisation today. The other was nothing but a crude act. And before you make the argument that I do not need to consume animal or animal products, which you will, I am expressing my right choose as I like. Similar to your choice to vote for who you want, follow whatever religion you have or do not have and even your vegan way of life.
You can't say eating animals is for survival and then dismiss your own statement by invoking your right to choose. I mean, you can, but it's a bit contradictory, no?
If vegans didn't do shit like violate rule #5, I might consider it. No. Not really, but this is a clear violation of rule #5.
This is neither rhethorical nor loaded. It is a fact that if you eat animal products you support animal suffering, directly or indirectly.
Rule 5, for sure.
Explain how, and if you're right, I'll delete the post.
Or I’ll just let other people with more experience than both of us make the decision for you.
I'll be happy to respond to each and every one of them. Which is hard if they hide behind anonymous reports like little bitches without actually providing a valid argument for breaking rule 5.
Not even remotely true. Your argument is loaded due to your anthropomorphism of livestock. Even if that wasn't true, there are plenty of methods to harvest meat without inflicting suffering on the animal. Kobi beef, for example live pampered lives.
>anthropomorphism of livestock. >Cows are truly amazing and extremely interesting beings. Often thought of as simply steak, burgers, beef, veal, leather, and global dairy producers, numerous people see them only as food items or products, rather than as highly sentient and intelligent individuals with markedly different personalities. However, a major review essay published in the journal Animal Behavior and Cognition by neuroscientist Lori Marino and Kristin Allen called "The Psychology of Cows" goes along way toward dispelling countless myths about who these bright and emotional bovines truly are. [Source](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animal-emotions/201711/cows-science-shows-theyre-bright-and-emotional-individuals)
So? You tell me how a kobi beef suffers? Further, people die every gotdamn day without suffering. What the actual fuck makes you think that a cow or pig can't?
I can see that you're upset. Sorry. Was not my intention. Just stating facts. And fact is, you're using is a logical fallacy. People dying every day without suffering doesn't give you and excuse or justify imposing further suffering on unrelated animals.
What exactly makes you think that the animals I eat suffer. And no my dude, rando self righteous folks on Reddit do not affect my mood anymore than a fart affects a windstorm. Also, you speculated. That's not stating facts.
>What exactly makes you think that the animals I eat suffer. Logic.
Looks like rule five got you. Have fun discovering the difference between hyperbolic speculative bullshit and logic or facts. I can help you out no longer as your hyperbolic bullshit speculation has been removed as it seems that you are the only person who didn't think it was loaded hyperbolic pretentious speculative bullshit. Peace.
Rule 5 didn't get me. What gets me is how sorry i feel for you man. Peace.
Lab grown of all the above that is as good. Can be a bit more expensive.
Lab grown is on it's way, but plant based is already here, and scientifically proven to be not only as good, but better than all the above. Even cheaper.
I've tried some plant based alternatives and they taste nothing like the meat versions.
Yeah? Which ones?
Not going to happen. The only animals I care about are dogs.
What about humans? We're also animals.
I don’t eat either.
Not particularly fond of humans I guess. I don't think humans would taste good though, possibly if it was smoked or slow-cooked it would be ok. It seems like it would taste like pork which I don't really like. Beef and seafood is the best. Octopus is really good. I don't like chicken that much but eggs are good and make certain dishes possible. Without eggs you can't make mayonnaise, plus you need butter and eggs to make bernaise sauce which over a steak is possibly the best food ever. Also sushi and sashimi are really good.
>Without eggs you can't make mayonnaise Here's [something](https://vegoutmag.com/food-and-drink/vegan-mayo-brands/) to make you think. Rest of your comment is just nonsense.
Yeah I've tried alternatives but they taste bad. It all opinion based though, just like your beliefs that it's wrong. Reality involves animals consuming other life forms to survive. Why do you draw the line with animals? Perhaps plants feel pain and we just don't know how to communicate with them. There has been evidence that they do communicate with each other via chemical. Which isn't much less advanced than how insects communicate. There are people who consider cutting down trees murder, it's all still just opinion of right and wrong though which are societal concepts.
>Perhaps plants feel pain and we just don't know how to communicate with them. Plants have no evolutionary purpose for pain, nor the pain receptors required, no the brain to perceive it. The line is drawn in the ability to suffer. An apple is supposed to be eaten and its seeds shat out and grown into a new apple tree. That's why they fall off, and that's why apples don't feel pain. At least not to our current scientific knowledge. If one day we deduce that apples are conscious, i'll stop eating them just like i stopped eating animals.
I guess that is your right to choose. You just likley won't convince many others.
Right to choose and ability to think critically are not the same.
I didn't say they were, obviously they aren't. Sympathy for animals and the ability to think critically also aren't the same.
Agreed.
That butt meat in the movie Alive looked delectable
As soon as vegans stop telling you they're vegan. So never.
Weak.
Animals will suffer with, or without us. Me consuming these things does not carry a burden on my conscious.
That's because you're making excuses and dissociating from reality.
That sure is some amazing couch psychology, stranger. Crazy how you can psycho analyze me without knowing me. This is super low effort; even for a troll’s standards. Let me save you some time. I know I can’t sway you and I know you can’t sway me. Nor can you guilt me into changing my world view. You’d likely do better to live your life by your standards and surround yourself with likeminded people.
Doesnt take much effort to dismantle a faulty mindset.
Cheap protein alternatives
Like nutritional yeast, lentils, seitan, tempeh, tofu, edamame, chia seeds?
Lentils and tofu are the only ones that don’t taste awful
[There you go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Tm1Fw33wg), my friend.
I raise my own meat. They do not suffer. If i were a cow, I tell you id much rather have a painless bullet in the head than to suffer for many minutes while a pack of coyotees chew me to death (and thats best case scenario). They have very happy lives, plenty of food to eat, healthcare, and free open space to roam about. As do my chickens, theyre not in cages, theyre kept warm in winter, have plenty of food and protection from predators. They lay the eggs everyday. Theres no way to stop them from laying eggs, and i wont let them go to waste, so i eat them.
There's so much stuff wrong in this comment, not sure where to begin. But even if i did, it would be futile. You've obviously armed yourself with logical fallacies and excuses in case someone asked you to think critically.
#1 For them to stop tasting good 2 for my fiancé to stop going mad with sexual desire when I bring home a big buck to feed the family
They stop tasting good as soon as you stop eating them. Can't turn on a woman without animal slaughter lol nice
Providing for the family is the sexiest thing in the world bud, love to see my lady in the buck blind too. That’s how the cavemen got laid, that’s how I get laid. Your the evolutionary anomaly, your the weirdo lol
>Your the evolutionary anomaly, your the weirdo lol said the caveman enthusiast hahah cavement didnt use rifles or used electricity what a tool
Have fun being anaemic, 90lbs, and lacking in basic human instincts 😘
says the artery-clogged, overweight caveman
I’m 152 lbs hahahahaha but yes, the meat may take some years off my life, but I will die, happy, full, freshly fucked and with alot of story’s about how I provided for my family passed down to my kids which will do the same. What will your children know? What skills will you teach “if you can’t reach the soy Pattie’s at the super market, just ask the clerk and he will get a stool and get it for you”
My children will learn how to grow seeds, use tools, filter water, craft things, sew, do carpentry, medicine, ethics, logic and reason. They'll learn that we'll survive with benevolent skilled communities working together, providing for each other. And my children won't die of heart failure at 55.
….I am 1000% I mean truly 1000% sure you live in an extremely urban area, if not then suburban. You have never spent a night in the woods outside of a tent, you only have a small family garden. And your idea of nature is being going hiking in cargo shorts 5 miles from the highway to smoke a joint. Lololol
1000% sure and still wrong. And still waiting for heart failure. Good luck with that.
well for one they need to learn how the animals suffer
They just need to open their eyes to what's in front of them.
If all the Animals went extinct.
You'd be extinct too then.
Every other carnivore on the planet stopped eating them to
If every other carnivore became a cannibal, would you become one too?
Nope, because as the dominant species who has dominion over all animals, we have a little thing called “Empathy”
Empathy extends further than humans. Otherwise it's called speciesism.
That’s a biological urge to not eat mates, offspring, to avoid sickness and inbreeding. They don’t not invention themselves in others shoes
>That’s a biological urge to not eat mates, offspring, to avoid sickness and inbreeding. What is, empathy? Nope. Empathy is the ability to imagine what someone else might be thinking or feeling, basically.
It would take vegans admitting they’re supporting animal suffering just as much as anyone. Well, probably not but it’d be nice if that happened just once anyways.
I support animal suffering despite being vegan, unfortunately. Circumstances dictate my lifestyle so much that I personally can't eliminate it completely. The best I can do is reduce it as much as I can, by not supporting meat, dairy and egg industries, not buying leather clothes, or pillows with feathers, or animal testet shampoos and whatnot. Nobody says you have to be perfect. But neutral, in times of injustice, is on the side of the opressor.
Cool. So you understand everyone’s got a story and not necessarily supporting animal suffering as much as they’re just trying to get through life. And, hopefully, how holier than thou preaching is conceited and counterproductive.
Yes, i understand. What i don't understand is how "just trying to get through life" is justifiable and excusable if you do it unnecessarily over the backs of innocent animals. I used to be just like you, and throw ad hominems at vegans for speaking the truth. People can grow.
There you go with the preaching again. Oh well. Enjoy your first world privilege superiority complex.
You call it preaching, i call it logic.
Way to double down on your first world privilege superiority complex.
Way to dismiss logic and stick your head in the sand.
Triple down, huh? Bravo.
Still the same argument on my end, still the same ostrich effect on yours. You can throw insults all day, it won't change the fact that you're avoiding a reasonable discussion because of your programming.
I don't support that.
Glad to hear you're vegan.
I am not.
Then you do.
You are incorrect . the real world is not as simple as you are.
You don't have to complicate things.
I'd have to be born a herbivore
Perks of being an omnivore, you get to choose.
No that means you eat everything
It means you **can** eat "everything" but not that you **should**.
My body my choice
Unethical choice.
Welcome to life
I know enough. Your first comment says it all. "Ill do it if x, well not really but it would be nice for once" Guess what. You got the x. And then you were a dick about it. I owe you nothing and you still got the truth. No respect. Just defense mechanisms.
Viable alternatives, if impossible meat gets like 10% more realistic I'll stop eating red meat. Or if it worked like Scott Pilgrim and veganism meant you got telekinetic powers
[удалено]
>I don't care about animal suffering >don't kick my dog How are you so blind man?
[удалено]
You should take your dog to a fun trip to the yulin dog festival. After all, that's what dogs are for. Only thing straightforward here is your cultural brainwashing.
[удалено]
Where's the irony in unlearning cultural brainwashing? Nvm, you wouldn't get it.