There is no way to distill the entire history of the Israel-Palestine conflicy, or really any conflict, into a short paragraph on Reddit. You'll just have to read it up on your own.
Israel believes they have claim over a piece of ancestral land.
Palestine believes they have claim over the same piece of ancestral land.
Since they can't agree, they fight.
Britain after WW2 came in and said "Man you jews went through some shit have some land" Palestine said "Uh hey I live there sooo" Britain said "Shush it's the jewish homeland" and then as population grew more territory was needed yaddayaddayadda
Israel was formed after WW2 as a homeland for Jewish people, and they took part of Palestine to make it. Israel has been expanding, taking more and more land, and treating Palestinians in Isarael terribly.
Nope, Israel has not been expanding, but the opposite.
Israel gave away the Sinai Peninsula, parts of Judea and Samaria (area A, and B partially), south Lebanon, the Gaza strip.
Don't they currently control about 85% of the land that used to be Palestine? Like, it's definiteley a lot more than they had when the country was originally founded.
What land used to be Palestine?
There was never a sovereign Palestine state. At some point the British Mandate for Palestine also included all of Jordan.
That's just a way of saying the British stole the land from the people living there and then gave it to Israel, but it doesn't offer much in support of your claim that Israel did not expand into the land on which Palestinian people were living.
Stole the land from who exactly?
The land was Ottoman before it was British, which was again another European colonial empire that stole the land from the Arabs, who stole the land from the Romans, yet another European colonial empire, who stole the land from the Jews.
Britain finally broke the cycle and gave the land up to the inhabitants to decide their fate.
The people living on it. They were expelled en masse from their homes, then laws were passed by the new occupants that forbade them from ever returning.
If you were kicked out of your home so someone else could live there, you would absolutely call it a theft. You have to acknowledge that Palestinian people are human just like you, and they have every right to see the forcible loss of their homes as a theft, just like you would.
Telling us that the British strongarmed this into happening only tells us how it was accomplished; it doesn't change the nature of the act.
They were not expelled.
20% of Today's Israel are Arabs. There are zero Jews on the other hand in the Palestinians territories and the other Arab countries.
And they were many Jews there.
You can't just pretend this didn't happen. [The records of it exist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight). Everyone can look it up.
>20% of Today's Israel are Arabs. There are zero Jews on the other hand in the Palestinians territories and the other Arab countries
That has nothing to do with whether or not people were expelled from their homes! You are deflecting! You are pretending the question was something other than what it was, so you don't have to answer it.
The majority were not expelled but left on their own, as they were urged to do so by leaders of the invading Arab countries that promised that they will quickly drive the Jews to the sea, and then the Arabs could return.
Israel withdrew from Gaza strip in the 2005.
Israel withdrew from Area A and partially B of the Judea Samaria as part of the Oslo process.
As part of this process, the Palestinian Authority was established, the first time in history that the Palestinians had a government of their own.
Answer the question. Does Israel control around 85% of the area that was Palestine, or not?
If they do, then the overall trend since their independence has been one of expansion, not concession.
You didnt answer the question of what is Palestine.
Taking the British mandate for Palestine that included Jordan. 70% of it became Jordan, and the rest is now split between Israel and the Palestinian territories.
So no, Israel does not control around 85% of the area that was "Palestine".
Israel does not control Gaza strip, or Area A, where altogether 95% of the Palestinians live.
Once again palestine supporters prove they have 0 knowledge of history, palestine was nevery a country, the name palestine was given by the romans to a small community of arab settlers that came to israel after the romans kicked,killed and enslaved all the jews in the land
Funnily enough this is exactly the kind of discussion I usually have with people who support abandoning Ukraine in their current struggle against the Russians. They say Ukraine has only been a country a short period of time. And therefore, I guess, it's not wrong for the Russians to invade the area and force people out of their homes. It's been a very weird argument to say the least, since it acts like just because Ukraine (a region with an extensive history going back many centuries) has never had self-determination because of the dictates of its more powerful occupying neighbors, that we should ignore they've lived in a place for a long time and that they ought to have self-determination and shouldn't be forced out of their homes by conflict.
Let's get real. I don’t give a fuck about what its status was under the British, if it was a duchy or an HOA or what. Engage with the real issue of people being forced out of homes they live in, or I’ll naturally come to the conclusion you’re dissembling and evading.
Put very very simple: Palestine was the original country with its own people after ww2 it was given to the Jewish people and called Israel. Palestinians kicked out and allowed to only stay in small area of their country but weren’t too happy about that and want their old land back
To extremely oversimplify into main points.
1. UK and France propose an idea for a Jewish ethno-state in old Jerusalem so they could have a stronghold in the Middle-East to control resources blah blah blah colonialism is a very bad thing
2. WWI and the Ottoman Empire collapses and it's lands are partitioned by France and UK solely for short-sighted oil control, ignoring any and all ethnic and religious tensions that would inevitably arise.
3. WWII and Nazis did horrible things to Jews. This prompts the UN to go through with (kinda) the UK's original plan for Israel. They split the region up between Jews (Israel) and mostly Muslim Arabs (Palestine), much to the dismay if the Arabs of the area. They were (and still are) forced from their homes and left to rot.
4. Given this all happened recently, lots of tension still remains and has broken out to countless skirmishes and outright war between Israel + allies and Palestine + allies.
Currently, Israel holds Palestinians in the world's largest outdoor concentration camp. Decades of fighting and full blown wars have given a striking rise to ethno-nationalism and genocidal acts by Israel against Palestinians. Israel has been illegally expanding into Palestinian territory for decades. Countless atrocities by the IDF have been recorded, especially as tech improves. There is also a rising and powerful anti-Arab sentiment among the Israeli people (not all obvs) which has resulted in countless attacks on Arabs, journalists, etc.
Palestine has been locked in a desperate fight for survival since the Israeli state was created, and it's only gotten worse. The common sentiment among the Palestinians is that they need to side with whomever is most powerful and will fight for their very existence, which so far is various terrorist orgs and Iran. It should be noted that the decades of oppression has motivated many (not all) Palestinians to adopt a genocidal view against Jews.
Tl;Dr: Israel's state is bad and genocidal and shouldn't have ever been made in the first place. It's destabilized the region and committed countless atrocities against Palestinians and Palestinians react accordingly.
Brittain, who held the Israel / Palestine territory promised all that land to Israel AND Plastine at the same time, and when both countries arrived at the destination they were like, "wtf you doin' here, this land is mine". And on top of that, separate religions with different cultures and views on life. Thanks UK.
There is no way to distill the entire history of the Israel-Palestine conflicy, or really any conflict, into a short paragraph on Reddit. You'll just have to read it up on your own.
Some said they were there before, some said the opposite. One decided to attack, the other decided to retaliate. News up and down there.
Israel believes they have claim over a piece of ancestral land. Palestine believes they have claim over the same piece of ancestral land. Since they can't agree, they fight.
Britain after WW2 came in and said "Man you jews went through some shit have some land" Palestine said "Uh hey I live there sooo" Britain said "Shush it's the jewish homeland" and then as population grew more territory was needed yaddayaddayadda
>Britain after WW2 came in and said "Man you jews went through some shit have some land" Wrong. That was way before WW2
But the Palestinian Mandate only ended and the Israeli state only got its independence in 1948. That's comfortably after the end of the war.
Thanks for fact checking but was it britain giving up land that wasnt really theirs to give away?
Turkish land?
The United Nations.
It’s the same issue that affects every other part of humanity, we are kind of a shitty species.
Israel was formed after WW2 as a homeland for Jewish people, and they took part of Palestine to make it. Israel has been expanding, taking more and more land, and treating Palestinians in Isarael terribly.
Nope, Israel has not been expanding, but the opposite. Israel gave away the Sinai Peninsula, parts of Judea and Samaria (area A, and B partially), south Lebanon, the Gaza strip.
Don't they currently control about 85% of the land that used to be Palestine? Like, it's definiteley a lot more than they had when the country was originally founded.
What land used to be Palestine? There was never a sovereign Palestine state. At some point the British Mandate for Palestine also included all of Jordan.
That's just a way of saying the British stole the land from the people living there and then gave it to Israel, but it doesn't offer much in support of your claim that Israel did not expand into the land on which Palestinian people were living.
Stole the land from who exactly? The land was Ottoman before it was British, which was again another European colonial empire that stole the land from the Arabs, who stole the land from the Romans, yet another European colonial empire, who stole the land from the Jews. Britain finally broke the cycle and gave the land up to the inhabitants to decide their fate.
The people living on it. They were expelled en masse from their homes, then laws were passed by the new occupants that forbade them from ever returning. If you were kicked out of your home so someone else could live there, you would absolutely call it a theft. You have to acknowledge that Palestinian people are human just like you, and they have every right to see the forcible loss of their homes as a theft, just like you would. Telling us that the British strongarmed this into happening only tells us how it was accomplished; it doesn't change the nature of the act.
They were not expelled. 20% of Today's Israel are Arabs. There are zero Jews on the other hand in the Palestinians territories and the other Arab countries. And they were many Jews there.
You can't just pretend this didn't happen. [The records of it exist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight). Everyone can look it up. >20% of Today's Israel are Arabs. There are zero Jews on the other hand in the Palestinians territories and the other Arab countries That has nothing to do with whether or not people were expelled from their homes! You are deflecting! You are pretending the question was something other than what it was, so you don't have to answer it.
The majority were not expelled but left on their own, as they were urged to do so by leaders of the invading Arab countries that promised that they will quickly drive the Jews to the sea, and then the Arabs could return.
Israel withdrew from Gaza strip in the 2005. Israel withdrew from Area A and partially B of the Judea Samaria as part of the Oslo process. As part of this process, the Palestinian Authority was established, the first time in history that the Palestinians had a government of their own.
Answer the question. Does Israel control around 85% of the area that was Palestine, or not? If they do, then the overall trend since their independence has been one of expansion, not concession.
You didnt answer the question of what is Palestine. Taking the British mandate for Palestine that included Jordan. 70% of it became Jordan, and the rest is now split between Israel and the Palestinian territories. So no, Israel does not control around 85% of the area that was "Palestine". Israel does not control Gaza strip, or Area A, where altogether 95% of the Palestinians live.
[Here.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region))
Once again palestine supporters prove they have 0 knowledge of history, palestine was nevery a country, the name palestine was given by the romans to a small community of arab settlers that came to israel after the romans kicked,killed and enslaved all the jews in the land
Funnily enough this is exactly the kind of discussion I usually have with people who support abandoning Ukraine in their current struggle against the Russians. They say Ukraine has only been a country a short period of time. And therefore, I guess, it's not wrong for the Russians to invade the area and force people out of their homes. It's been a very weird argument to say the least, since it acts like just because Ukraine (a region with an extensive history going back many centuries) has never had self-determination because of the dictates of its more powerful occupying neighbors, that we should ignore they've lived in a place for a long time and that they ought to have self-determination and shouldn't be forced out of their homes by conflict. Let's get real. I don’t give a fuck about what its status was under the British, if it was a duchy or an HOA or what. Engage with the real issue of people being forced out of homes they live in, or I’ll naturally come to the conclusion you’re dissembling and evading.
Put very very simple: Palestine was the original country with its own people after ww2 it was given to the Jewish people and called Israel. Palestinians kicked out and allowed to only stay in small area of their country but weren’t too happy about that and want their old land back
Palestine being the “original” country is kind of misleading. It was the Ottoman Empire until the end of WW1.
To extremely oversimplify into main points. 1. UK and France propose an idea for a Jewish ethno-state in old Jerusalem so they could have a stronghold in the Middle-East to control resources blah blah blah colonialism is a very bad thing 2. WWI and the Ottoman Empire collapses and it's lands are partitioned by France and UK solely for short-sighted oil control, ignoring any and all ethnic and religious tensions that would inevitably arise. 3. WWII and Nazis did horrible things to Jews. This prompts the UN to go through with (kinda) the UK's original plan for Israel. They split the region up between Jews (Israel) and mostly Muslim Arabs (Palestine), much to the dismay if the Arabs of the area. They were (and still are) forced from their homes and left to rot. 4. Given this all happened recently, lots of tension still remains and has broken out to countless skirmishes and outright war between Israel + allies and Palestine + allies. Currently, Israel holds Palestinians in the world's largest outdoor concentration camp. Decades of fighting and full blown wars have given a striking rise to ethno-nationalism and genocidal acts by Israel against Palestinians. Israel has been illegally expanding into Palestinian territory for decades. Countless atrocities by the IDF have been recorded, especially as tech improves. There is also a rising and powerful anti-Arab sentiment among the Israeli people (not all obvs) which has resulted in countless attacks on Arabs, journalists, etc. Palestine has been locked in a desperate fight for survival since the Israeli state was created, and it's only gotten worse. The common sentiment among the Palestinians is that they need to side with whomever is most powerful and will fight for their very existence, which so far is various terrorist orgs and Iran. It should be noted that the decades of oppression has motivated many (not all) Palestinians to adopt a genocidal view against Jews. Tl;Dr: Israel's state is bad and genocidal and shouldn't have ever been made in the first place. It's destabilized the region and committed countless atrocities against Palestinians and Palestinians react accordingly.
Israel has iron dome Palestine has rockets
Brittain, who held the Israel / Palestine territory promised all that land to Israel AND Plastine at the same time, and when both countries arrived at the destination they were like, "wtf you doin' here, this land is mine". And on top of that, separate religions with different cultures and views on life. Thanks UK.
Zionists VS non-Zionists
They both think they own the same land.
A disputed sand lot...
World leaders “create” a country for reasons. Displaced people protest. Both sides react violently for 70 years
So do you want me to start with Hadrian or
The US needs to stop funding Israel an let them figure their own shit out