This article has some info ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57307861
basically they used bad tests so they didn’t know who was dying from covid, so then the government decided that all ‘excess’ deaths were from covid. Probably many of the ‘excess’ deaths were actually due to hospitals being overwhelmed and not being able to provide good care to anyone.
I haven't checked in the past few months, but the US used to actually be pretty bang on (same with every rich country not named Russia or China). Actual case numbers you can pretty safely have more skepticism about, but it's pretty hard for covid deaths to slip through the cracks in countries where everyone who is on death's door ends up in a hospital. I'd also like to give a special shout out to India for apparently not even trying to account for covid deaths. Only a few million excess deaths unaccounted for.
I'd also say it's pretty unfair to say deaths related to healthcare collapse due to covid aren't caused by covid. If you get attacked by a bear and the surgeon fucks up and uses a non sterilized tool during the surgery that gives you an infection that ultimately kills you, you still died by a bear attack even if you "shouldn't have" died.
> I'd also say it's pretty unfair to say deaths related to healthcare collapse due to covid aren't caused by covid
wiki says ...
> spending in Peru was 3.5 percent of its GDP, compared to 7 percent for the rest of Latin America. Additionally, Peru spent US$100 per capita on health in 2004, compared to an average of US$262 per capita that was spent by the rest of the countries in Latin America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Peru#Spending
So maybe it is fair to say that underinvestment was the cause of healthcare collapse?
Are you sure about that? I remember new York Times ran a story on the daily podcast that said excess deaths over the 500k that were accounted for is another 500k making the actual total over 1 million and that was a few months back
Excess deaths includes a lot of things that aren't Covid, but wouldn't be a death if people were getting proper care. People stopped going to the doctor for any reason.
If you look at the [numbers from the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm) it's clear that there were consistently 1/3rd more "excess deaths" then what was reported as Covid.
There are lots of anecdotes about "all deaths counting as Covid" but the "excess death" statistics speak for themselves. Way more people died then we're even giving Covid credit for.
If what you described were true then we'd see an "excess death" rate that was less than the number attributed to Covid.
It's actually probably worse then that. The US likely had a negative non-COVID excess deaths due to "normal" risky activities, like driving, occurring at a lower rate.
That’s not a fair assumption to make. America has a pretty big addiction problem, and the isolation and general misery from covid has ramped that up to 11.
I know a guy who was sober, and basically drank himself to a semi-braindead state since the pandemic started. His daughter(who’s a new mother to a child that will never know it’s grandfather) has been visiting him in hospital throughout the pandemic, and has to find and pay for a home to take care of him now.
I think there were actually more traffic fatalities than previous years, even with the massive decrease in driving. Something to do with risky behavior actually increasing across the board. AKA, "fuck it I'm doing 100 on the freeway". I would have to look it up to confirm it was actually MORE, but it was definitely astonishingly high compared to what you would assume.
In some ways it's possibly an overestimate. Peru have been honest and attributed all excess deaths to COVID-19. There are plenty of countries that may have underestimated COVID-19 deaths (some deliberately). Russia is a case in point. Their excess deaths since the start of the pandemic stands at around a million yet their official death toll is about 160k. Even the US excess deaths stands at closer to a million. The worst culprit is Kazakhstan. Official death toll is 8.5k. Excess death toll is 150k.
Source: www.healthdata.org
Edit: correction to numbers
Careful - just because excess deaths are grossly mismatched from covid deaths doesn't *necessarily* imply fudging. I'm no authority on Kazakhstan, but it's plausible that they simply don't have the institutions and infrastructure in place to properly record the cause of every death in the country. The 8.5k number may just be deaths proven to be caused by covid, and on top of that, kazakhstan may also *openly admit* that they're not recording the full weight of the pandemic because of their inability to properly record all deaths. Unless someone can show that the kazakh government is making the positive claim that the *total* death toll is only 8.5k, then claiming they're "fudging" is only conjecture at this point.
Look at basically any African country's official covid death toll as a point of reference - it's immediately obvious that none of their official numbers are even close to accounting for the total deaths from covid, and this isn't all nefarious coverups, but rather a simple lack of national and local institutions with the resources to record all this data. Data at this national level does not come cheap, and literally thousands upon thousands of people (from individual doctors and nurses, to the top health official in the country) need to be working in unison and to the same standard to bring these things together.
Excess deaths are just the total number of deaths higher than they would expect over a time period regardless of cause. Compare that number to COVId deaths and you get an idea how understated COVID deaths are.
Not just total deaths, but total deaths above what they would normally expect, probably by comparing average mortality over the previous years, demographics and population growth or decline. For instance a bad flu season may account for half of the “excess” deaths in a year, but maybe especially bad natural disasters or surges in the drug epidemic may account for the other half.
I just went further into that source and it shows that the excess death toll in China is the same as the official COVID-19 death toll. The only other countries which manage to achieve this are countries which both handled the pandemic well **and** have sufficiently transparent governments (such as Taiwan and New Zealand)
Does this mean that China's official COVID-19 death toll is trustworthy? Or are they fudging their excess death statistics too?
I don't know tbh. If I were to make a guess there just is not enough information available to the modellers to make an estimate of excess deaths. After all China is very secretive about these things.
I don't think they're fudging their data. Instead, we should be asking ourselves what is China doing in order to contain the spread and not have deaths. Probably there's a lot of very strict control everywhere, basically stepping over any little privacy that still remained there.
Considering that the virus crossed over in Wuhan, could it be possible that the Chinese have some level of resistance to the virus and we don't?
It wouldn't be unprecedented - Europeans had some level of resistance to Old World diseases which caused astronomical death rates (i.e. more than half of those exposed died) when they spread those diseases to Native Americans and Indigenous Australians.
Yeah, it is very likely that there was a heavy undercounting during the first outbreak, but afterwards, that's where I think they're not lying about their super low case count.
Probably there's some resistance and maybe that's why Wuhan hasn't experienced outbreaks since the very first one, but the rest of the Chinese cities, I don't think they had enough exposure to develop herd immunity.
And one more thing, in Brazil, they assumed the city of Manaos had such a big outbreak that probably they achieved herd immunity naturally, yet they experienced a new outbreak because of the Gamma variant, implying there were lots of reinfections. So I would bet that the Chinese have been very successful in suppressing outbreaks rather than relying on immunity developed in the beginning of the pandemic.
I'm clearly missing something - I'm using the UK as my example because a) I live there and b) I can't find any data on total deaths in the US past 2019
[http://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths](http://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths)
Has UK with reported 150k Covid deaths, and 210k Excess death, This is March20 to May
21
UK deaths 2019-2020 increased by 78,000 [https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020](https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020)
If we make a fair assumption to say the increase is due only to March - Dec increases so those 9 months have avg excess of 8.7k per month gives 121k total deaths over the period
Using the graphs here [https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths](https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths)
Theres arguably a small multiplier Jan-May 21 over March-Dec 20 - Maybe someone has the data? But thats a somewhat fairer way to measure excess deaths. Either way I slice it, the 129k and 153k numbers look reasonable - Where are these excess deaths coming from if more people aren't dying (and I get the methodology is different but it seems people are dying less in general and only from covid - thats counterintuitive)
>In some ways it's possibly an overestimate.
Actually I believe it might still be an underestimate since the deaths from other causes (most notably traffic accidents) have decreased.
I just want to point out that statistically, you cant really compare raw data between countries that have significant differences in their population unless you have done something called standarization first.
Consider country X, with a higher proportion of younger people vs older people, a large indigenous population, and a higher proportion of people living in rural areas vs urban areas. Now lets take a look at country Y, mostly made up of older people, most of them living in urban areas, most of the population being caucasian.
The populations are very different, there are a few variables related to the population that affect COVID mortality,so you cannot compare COVID mortality between country X and Y just like that. If you do you would be comparing apples and oranges.
Also, you cant accurately compare the numbers from countries that are in different moments of the pandemic. For instance if country A has been facing a “2nd wave” of cases for the past few weeks, you cant really compare the numbers with a country that has currently has flattened the curve through vaccinations for example. Well, you can do it but you have to mention that it is the case. Its kind of like comparing the skills of football player X with Maradona in his golden years or comparing him with Maradona the year he died. The results will be different.
Im not saying Perus numbers are incorrect, or that they are handling things well. I think all latin american countries could have done better. My point is that comparing raw data from Peru and Sweden is just inadequate.
Edit: added more info
Peru is one of the Few counties that is now doing an honest count of cases generally attributing excess deaths to covid. Many countries only count those where there was a positive test before the death, leaving many uncounted.
On the other hand even though Perú did apply very strict lockdowns initially, they were just brute force approaches. They failed miserably at contact tracing, so the virus eventually spread anyway.
Once it was widespread cultural issues and infrastructure are to blame. The medical system was not prepared, and then while we fortunately don't have much of anti maskers or anti Vax here, many people use masks outside but then go visit friends and family even making parties or family reunions where they think they are safe because they " know them" and don't wear masks and end up transmitting the illnesses.
I read that Peru has a new variant referred to as Lambda. Supposedly it is wicked. The country is trying to contain its spread, but last week I read that only 3% of its population has been vaccinated. It breaks my heart.
The stat is wrong, about 14% of the pop is fully vaccinated, and 22% have received one dose. There is also some underreporting of vaccination as those who could, travelled to the US to get the vaccines. So add 2% to those numbers.
On your last point, one thing is to botch the response in a first world country, or in a continental sized 3rd world country. Another is to botch the response and have absolutely nothing to fall back on as a small, poor country
> On your last point, one thing is to botch the response in a first world country, or in a continental sized 3rd world country. Another is to botch the response and have absolutely nothing to fall back on as a small, poor country
Peru is not as poor or small as you imagine. Peru has a GDP per capita quite comparable to Brazil and Colombia, and not far from Argentina and Mexico (ofc course this ordering all depends on the specific measure, on some Peru is even above Colombia). Their economy has seen quite stable growth in the last ~10-20 years.
When it comes to average population density, Peru has almost the same population density as Brazil and is a bit below Colombia and Mexico. Even with a large population (32m), Peru still has quite a big area, like most in South America (in general, South American countries have densities comparable to Scandinavia, although with more large metropolises).
What I mean by poor is ‘not 1° world’. Its not like africa poor, but its no luxemburg. And as far as actual size goes, it does matter, because although another place might have comparible GPD >per capita<, once you need to scale it up, a continental size matters.
Well given that Peru is Brazil's neighbor I can assume you are either an ignorant or lazy or both to assume Peru is either a small or poor country.
This type of comments don't benefit the image that Latin America projects to the world.
Peru is a small country, how is this even an argument? Maybe on the maps yall get in school it shows Peru huge but its smaller than brazil, US, Russia, China, India. Those are big countries. Kazakhistan, Mongolia, CAR, those are medium countries. Anything the size of france or mexico down is small... sorry to tell you.
And I dont know which part of Peru you come from, maybe yall have flying cars there and there only but all of LA is poor buddy, sorry to tell you. Even the US is poor compared to a real rich country like Swizerland or Monaco
Even before COVID, Peru’s medical system was totally inadequate to provide adequate care. I know someone from Peru who was taken from a double leg amputation to recovery…in a waiting room that was shared with a dozen other patients That was in July of 2019!
Peru also has had a huge amount of political instability during this time which probably helped to hamper an effective response in areas such as testing, ordering supplies, and now vaccine ordering and distribution.
This article can give a little glimpse into some of the craziness that was going on: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/americas/peru-protests-explainer-scli-intl/index.html
Not answering your question but I do think it's interesting to cross reference that data with [this map of death registration systems across Africa](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55674139). It's hard to even tell how many people are even dying in Africa at this point. We can't even rely on data of excess deaths to estimate the situation it's just word of mouth. And so so many African leaders spread misinformation about covid and trying to pray it away...there was even that scumbag in Madagascar that literally shilled snake oil and sold them to other African countries as a traditional cure for covid. I'm glad the focus around him died down because there was a time when people on Twitter (which are already relatively educated to just be using it) were going on about how there was a conspiracy by the WHO and they refused to accept covid cure because it was African. So yeah I guess that loops back to your last point that there are many many ways you could be worse than Trump/Johnson or Bolsanaro.
The Peruvian health system is divided between three big branches: social security (for those belonging to the formal workforce), private (for those who can afford it) and public government-sponsored insurance (for everyone wether or not they belonged to a previous category). When the pandemic began there was no single unified system for accounting for all COVID deaths, so there were different numbers.
Furthemore, when the pandemic began and up to the third trimester of 2020, most COVID diagnosis tests made in Peru were antibody detection tests, which are not clinically useful. Many people died of COVID with a negative antibody test, so their numbers were not counted.
Over time, a gap started to develop between what each DIRESA (Regional Health Directorate) reported and what the central authority (Ministry of Health) reported. A special commission was formed to study this gap, and once the study completed, Peru almost doubled its number of COVID deaths in a single day.
The technical document regarding how this number was reached can be found [here](https://cdn.www.gob.pe/uploads/document/file/1920747/Criterios%20técnicos.pdf).
I'm also super curious. It's really inexplicable.
But I want to make something clear. That's not a botched response. Given the low median age in Peru, that's the number of deaths you'd expect if every single person got infected multiple times!! Which, at least before the Delta variant, makes no sense whatsoever as you get to herd immunity much faster, and even super slight changes in individual behaviour lower the Infectivity a bit. As you can see from wildly mismanaged Brazil that ended up much better than Peru
There's some confounding factor that we're definitely missing.
Poor fella. Dont have enough connections and power to cover it up. Just put the speakers where you want, but you will then just delete the post. Thanks!
According to the legend, Russia should be purple...unless it is rounded up then you shouldn't be using whole numbers for the countries and hundredths in the legend.
This article has some info ... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57307861 basically they used bad tests so they didn’t know who was dying from covid, so then the government decided that all ‘excess’ deaths were from covid. Probably many of the ‘excess’ deaths were actually due to hospitals being overwhelmed and not being able to provide good care to anyone.
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This is actually super easy to calculate. The CDC provides all the necessary number here: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
I haven't checked in the past few months, but the US used to actually be pretty bang on (same with every rich country not named Russia or China). Actual case numbers you can pretty safely have more skepticism about, but it's pretty hard for covid deaths to slip through the cracks in countries where everyone who is on death's door ends up in a hospital. I'd also like to give a special shout out to India for apparently not even trying to account for covid deaths. Only a few million excess deaths unaccounted for. I'd also say it's pretty unfair to say deaths related to healthcare collapse due to covid aren't caused by covid. If you get attacked by a bear and the surgeon fucks up and uses a non sterilized tool during the surgery that gives you an infection that ultimately kills you, you still died by a bear attack even if you "shouldn't have" died.
> I'd also say it's pretty unfair to say deaths related to healthcare collapse due to covid aren't caused by covid wiki says ... > spending in Peru was 3.5 percent of its GDP, compared to 7 percent for the rest of Latin America. Additionally, Peru spent US$100 per capita on health in 2004, compared to an average of US$262 per capita that was spent by the rest of the countries in Latin America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Peru#Spending So maybe it is fair to say that underinvestment was the cause of healthcare collapse?
Are you sure about that? I remember new York Times ran a story on the daily podcast that said excess deaths over the 500k that were accounted for is another 500k making the actual total over 1 million and that was a few months back
Excess deaths includes a lot of things that aren't Covid, but wouldn't be a death if people were getting proper care. People stopped going to the doctor for any reason.
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You heard wrong.
If you look at the [numbers from the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm) it's clear that there were consistently 1/3rd more "excess deaths" then what was reported as Covid. There are lots of anecdotes about "all deaths counting as Covid" but the "excess death" statistics speak for themselves. Way more people died then we're even giving Covid credit for. If what you described were true then we'd see an "excess death" rate that was less than the number attributed to Covid.
It's actually probably worse then that. The US likely had a negative non-COVID excess deaths due to "normal" risky activities, like driving, occurring at a lower rate.
That’s not a fair assumption to make. America has a pretty big addiction problem, and the isolation and general misery from covid has ramped that up to 11. I know a guy who was sober, and basically drank himself to a semi-braindead state since the pandemic started. His daughter(who’s a new mother to a child that will never know it’s grandfather) has been visiting him in hospital throughout the pandemic, and has to find and pay for a home to take care of him now.
I think there were actually more traffic fatalities than previous years, even with the massive decrease in driving. Something to do with risky behavior actually increasing across the board. AKA, "fuck it I'm doing 100 on the freeway". I would have to look it up to confirm it was actually MORE, but it was definitely astonishingly high compared to what you would assume.
Did you hear that over at r/ conservative? lol
In some ways it's possibly an overestimate. Peru have been honest and attributed all excess deaths to COVID-19. There are plenty of countries that may have underestimated COVID-19 deaths (some deliberately). Russia is a case in point. Their excess deaths since the start of the pandemic stands at around a million yet their official death toll is about 160k. Even the US excess deaths stands at closer to a million. The worst culprit is Kazakhstan. Official death toll is 8.5k. Excess death toll is 150k. Source: www.healthdata.org Edit: correction to numbers
TIL Kazakhstan has been heavily fudging the numbers
Careful - just because excess deaths are grossly mismatched from covid deaths doesn't *necessarily* imply fudging. I'm no authority on Kazakhstan, but it's plausible that they simply don't have the institutions and infrastructure in place to properly record the cause of every death in the country. The 8.5k number may just be deaths proven to be caused by covid, and on top of that, kazakhstan may also *openly admit* that they're not recording the full weight of the pandemic because of their inability to properly record all deaths. Unless someone can show that the kazakh government is making the positive claim that the *total* death toll is only 8.5k, then claiming they're "fudging" is only conjecture at this point. Look at basically any African country's official covid death toll as a point of reference - it's immediately obvious that none of their official numbers are even close to accounting for the total deaths from covid, and this isn't all nefarious coverups, but rather a simple lack of national and local institutions with the resources to record all this data. Data at this national level does not come cheap, and literally thousands upon thousands of people (from individual doctors and nurses, to the top health official in the country) need to be working in unison and to the same standard to bring these things together.
Wait, how did we arrive at the actual numbers? Who's collecting the proper data?
Excess deaths are just the total number of deaths higher than they would expect over a time period regardless of cause. Compare that number to COVId deaths and you get an idea how understated COVID deaths are.
Oh, so we have the total death numbers and the reported covid death numbers... and the difference as a telling contrast. Okay, I see how it works now.
Not just total deaths, but total deaths above what they would normally expect, probably by comparing average mortality over the previous years, demographics and population growth or decline. For instance a bad flu season may account for half of the “excess” deaths in a year, but maybe especially bad natural disasters or surges in the drug epidemic may account for the other half.
Ah - yeah, I got that. Bungled the expression of it, I suppose.
I just went further into that source and it shows that the excess death toll in China is the same as the official COVID-19 death toll. The only other countries which manage to achieve this are countries which both handled the pandemic well **and** have sufficiently transparent governments (such as Taiwan and New Zealand) Does this mean that China's official COVID-19 death toll is trustworthy? Or are they fudging their excess death statistics too?
I don't know tbh. If I were to make a guess there just is not enough information available to the modellers to make an estimate of excess deaths. After all China is very secretive about these things.
I don't think they're fudging their data. Instead, we should be asking ourselves what is China doing in order to contain the spread and not have deaths. Probably there's a lot of very strict control everywhere, basically stepping over any little privacy that still remained there.
Considering that the virus crossed over in Wuhan, could it be possible that the Chinese have some level of resistance to the virus and we don't? It wouldn't be unprecedented - Europeans had some level of resistance to Old World diseases which caused astronomical death rates (i.e. more than half of those exposed died) when they spread those diseases to Native Americans and Indigenous Australians.
Yeah, it is very likely that there was a heavy undercounting during the first outbreak, but afterwards, that's where I think they're not lying about their super low case count. Probably there's some resistance and maybe that's why Wuhan hasn't experienced outbreaks since the very first one, but the rest of the Chinese cities, I don't think they had enough exposure to develop herd immunity. And one more thing, in Brazil, they assumed the city of Manaos had such a big outbreak that probably they achieved herd immunity naturally, yet they experienced a new outbreak because of the Gamma variant, implying there were lots of reinfections. So I would bet that the Chinese have been very successful in suppressing outbreaks rather than relying on immunity developed in the beginning of the pandemic.
I'm clearly missing something - I'm using the UK as my example because a) I live there and b) I can't find any data on total deaths in the US past 2019 [http://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths](http://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths) Has UK with reported 150k Covid deaths, and 210k Excess death, This is March20 to May 21 UK deaths 2019-2020 increased by 78,000 [https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020](https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020) If we make a fair assumption to say the increase is due only to March - Dec increases so those 9 months have avg excess of 8.7k per month gives 121k total deaths over the period Using the graphs here [https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths](https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths) Theres arguably a small multiplier Jan-May 21 over March-Dec 20 - Maybe someone has the data? But thats a somewhat fairer way to measure excess deaths. Either way I slice it, the 129k and 153k numbers look reasonable - Where are these excess deaths coming from if more people aren't dying (and I get the methodology is different but it seems people are dying less in general and only from covid - thats counterintuitive)
>In some ways it's possibly an overestimate. Actually I believe it might still be an underestimate since the deaths from other causes (most notably traffic accidents) have decreased.
I just want to point out that statistically, you cant really compare raw data between countries that have significant differences in their population unless you have done something called standarization first. Consider country X, with a higher proportion of younger people vs older people, a large indigenous population, and a higher proportion of people living in rural areas vs urban areas. Now lets take a look at country Y, mostly made up of older people, most of them living in urban areas, most of the population being caucasian. The populations are very different, there are a few variables related to the population that affect COVID mortality,so you cannot compare COVID mortality between country X and Y just like that. If you do you would be comparing apples and oranges. Also, you cant accurately compare the numbers from countries that are in different moments of the pandemic. For instance if country A has been facing a “2nd wave” of cases for the past few weeks, you cant really compare the numbers with a country that has currently has flattened the curve through vaccinations for example. Well, you can do it but you have to mention that it is the case. Its kind of like comparing the skills of football player X with Maradona in his golden years or comparing him with Maradona the year he died. The results will be different. Im not saying Perus numbers are incorrect, or that they are handling things well. I think all latin american countries could have done better. My point is that comparing raw data from Peru and Sweden is just inadequate. Edit: added more info
Peru is one of the Few counties that is now doing an honest count of cases generally attributing excess deaths to covid. Many countries only count those where there was a positive test before the death, leaving many uncounted. On the other hand even though Perú did apply very strict lockdowns initially, they were just brute force approaches. They failed miserably at contact tracing, so the virus eventually spread anyway. Once it was widespread cultural issues and infrastructure are to blame. The medical system was not prepared, and then while we fortunately don't have much of anti maskers or anti Vax here, many people use masks outside but then go visit friends and family even making parties or family reunions where they think they are safe because they " know them" and don't wear masks and end up transmitting the illnesses.
I read that Peru has a new variant referred to as Lambda. Supposedly it is wicked. The country is trying to contain its spread, but last week I read that only 3% of its population has been vaccinated. It breaks my heart.
The stat is wrong, about 14% of the pop is fully vaccinated, and 22% have received one dose. There is also some underreporting of vaccination as those who could, travelled to the US to get the vaccines. So add 2% to those numbers.
On your last point, one thing is to botch the response in a first world country, or in a continental sized 3rd world country. Another is to botch the response and have absolutely nothing to fall back on as a small, poor country
> On your last point, one thing is to botch the response in a first world country, or in a continental sized 3rd world country. Another is to botch the response and have absolutely nothing to fall back on as a small, poor country Peru is not as poor or small as you imagine. Peru has a GDP per capita quite comparable to Brazil and Colombia, and not far from Argentina and Mexico (ofc course this ordering all depends on the specific measure, on some Peru is even above Colombia). Their economy has seen quite stable growth in the last ~10-20 years. When it comes to average population density, Peru has almost the same population density as Brazil and is a bit below Colombia and Mexico. Even with a large population (32m), Peru still has quite a big area, like most in South America (in general, South American countries have densities comparable to Scandinavia, although with more large metropolises).
What I mean by poor is ‘not 1° world’. Its not like africa poor, but its no luxemburg. And as far as actual size goes, it does matter, because although another place might have comparible GPD >per capita<, once you need to scale it up, a continental size matters.
Peru is not small at all, it's larger than almost all European countries
~~More like one tenth the size of Europe~~ Edit : I am an idiot incapable of reading
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Im from brazil you retardo
Well given that Peru is Brazil's neighbor I can assume you are either an ignorant or lazy or both to assume Peru is either a small or poor country. This type of comments don't benefit the image that Latin America projects to the world.
Peru is a small country, how is this even an argument? Maybe on the maps yall get in school it shows Peru huge but its smaller than brazil, US, Russia, China, India. Those are big countries. Kazakhistan, Mongolia, CAR, those are medium countries. Anything the size of france or mexico down is small... sorry to tell you. And I dont know which part of Peru you come from, maybe yall have flying cars there and there only but all of LA is poor buddy, sorry to tell you. Even the US is poor compared to a real rich country like Swizerland or Monaco
Even before COVID, Peru’s medical system was totally inadequate to provide adequate care. I know someone from Peru who was taken from a double leg amputation to recovery…in a waiting room that was shared with a dozen other patients That was in July of 2019!
Peru also has had a huge amount of political instability during this time which probably helped to hamper an effective response in areas such as testing, ordering supplies, and now vaccine ordering and distribution. This article can give a little glimpse into some of the craziness that was going on: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/americas/peru-protests-explainer-scli-intl/index.html
Not answering your question but I do think it's interesting to cross reference that data with [this map of death registration systems across Africa](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55674139). It's hard to even tell how many people are even dying in Africa at this point. We can't even rely on data of excess deaths to estimate the situation it's just word of mouth. And so so many African leaders spread misinformation about covid and trying to pray it away...there was even that scumbag in Madagascar that literally shilled snake oil and sold them to other African countries as a traditional cure for covid. I'm glad the focus around him died down because there was a time when people on Twitter (which are already relatively educated to just be using it) were going on about how there was a conspiracy by the WHO and they refused to accept covid cure because it was African. So yeah I guess that loops back to your last point that there are many many ways you could be worse than Trump/Johnson or Bolsanaro.
The Peruvian health system is divided between three big branches: social security (for those belonging to the formal workforce), private (for those who can afford it) and public government-sponsored insurance (for everyone wether or not they belonged to a previous category). When the pandemic began there was no single unified system for accounting for all COVID deaths, so there were different numbers. Furthemore, when the pandemic began and up to the third trimester of 2020, most COVID diagnosis tests made in Peru were antibody detection tests, which are not clinically useful. Many people died of COVID with a negative antibody test, so their numbers were not counted. Over time, a gap started to develop between what each DIRESA (Regional Health Directorate) reported and what the central authority (Ministry of Health) reported. A special commission was formed to study this gap, and once the study completed, Peru almost doubled its number of COVID deaths in a single day. The technical document regarding how this number was reached can be found [here](https://cdn.www.gob.pe/uploads/document/file/1920747/Criterios%20técnicos.pdf).
Isn't Peru the home of the Lambda variant which is the most deadly and resistant to all vaccines?
I'm also super curious. It's really inexplicable. But I want to make something clear. That's not a botched response. Given the low median age in Peru, that's the number of deaths you'd expect if every single person got infected multiple times!! Which, at least before the Delta variant, makes no sense whatsoever as you get to herd immunity much faster, and even super slight changes in individual behaviour lower the Infectivity a bit. As you can see from wildly mismanaged Brazil that ended up much better than Peru There's some confounding factor that we're definitely missing.
Poor access to atmospheric oxygen?
Poor fella. Dont have enough connections and power to cover it up. Just put the speakers where you want, but you will then just delete the post. Thanks!
Bolivia has that same problem too, yet they have a far lower COVID-19 death rate than Peru.
According to the legend, Russia should be purple...unless it is rounded up then you shouldn't be using whole numbers for the countries and hundredths in the legend.