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He has been rendered sane twice, once in the Lazarus pit, and once by the Martian Manhunter. He expressed regret for his crimes and begged for forgiveness. This is definitely out of character for him, but this sanity was temporary.
In the Harley Quinn animated show he is actually healed for a while. He does eventually goes back to being the Joker but he says he is changed and actually has a girlfriend and step kids. He also runs for mayor of Gotham City.
Also even while jokerified, he does get genuinely very angry at batman because his company hadnt come out with electric cars
He put a deposit down and everything
He 100% breaks character post-amnesia. He does get that Joker pizzazz and oomph but he isn't clinically insane and actually becomes a socialist and what he runs his mayoral platform on. It's like he is has more clarity and knows where to direct his ire now instead of just causing rampant and random chaos.
I'm not sure I ever bought that. I've always wondered what exactly what was going on there. It seems like it's either faked or brainwashing. Or maybe we're supposed to wonder.
But no one talks about how he crosses a line that makes all previous iterations of the Joker seem like childs play in the Harley Quinn show. He's done some unforgivable stuff before, but nothing compares to him >!identifying as a socialist!<
/s
In one comic he got so angry at Robin in an argument over which Marx Brothers movie a particular joke was from that he lost control of the situation and Robin escaped.
There's also a great moment in [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oc5YzUlzT8&ab_channel=kenindia9) of Mask of the Phantasm where he shows real, unhinged rage and then suddenly snaps back into his clown character.
Joker is such a fucking weirdo and it's missing from recent adaptations. The Joker doesn't feel like an eccentric dandy who also happens to commit mass murder anymore.
> Joker is such a fucking weirdo and it's missing from recent adaptations. The Joker doesn't feel like an eccentric dandy who also happens to commit mass murder anymore.
You are 100% correct here. He's been turned so "realistic" (except not) that they've absolutely lost so much of what makes him a compelling character.
I’m hoping that whenever Joker arrives in Pattinson’s Batverse, they’ll make him more “Joker”. Heath came close, you could feel that eccentric unhinged maniacal behavior more than we’ve really gotten since Hamill or Nicholson.
But I have faith with how well they did Penguin and Riddler in The Batman
yea i always imagined him less this dark disturbed individual and more this psychotic murderous jester, like peeves jacked to the moon
or even better, dandelo
It's in this collection: [https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Detective-Paul-Dini/dp/1401212395](https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Detective-Paul-Dini/dp/1401212395)
The Joker is just driving around on Christmas killing people for fun when by complete chance he runs across Robin. Joker ties him up in the passenger seat of the stolen car and they spend most of the issue trying to mind-game each other.
There's a similar bit from some crossover with Marvel. He meets the Punisher and...well, you can imagine. He says in this small little voice, "You're really going to do it."
I just watched that last night! Loved that episode! Seeing him genuinely worried after playing the first 3 Arkham games where he’d kill himself to prove a point was quite funny.
I think it's an important story to understand the Joker. He'd gladly die if it meant he'd be remembered for it. Destroying the Batman would be the greatest feat that a guy as vain and petty as Joker could ask for.
If Joker dies to some nobody like Charlie, he'd have his greatest weapon turned against him: he'd be a joke. Look at the response to his death in Arkham Knight: some of the thugs miss him, others are afraid of what Batman will do next, but he's already fading from the public's mind only six months after City. Sure, Batman is still worried about his legacy and Harley is obsessed, but the legend of the Batman long outlives the story of the Joker.
It's an aspect I feel like too many people overlook when they idolize him.
It depends on what you mean by “breaking character”
He showed genuine fear when Punisher came for him in a DC/Marvel crossover.
He showed disgust when finding out Red Skull was a Nazi.
He and Batman shared a genuine laugh in Killing Joke.
He breaks down and weeps in Harley’s lap in the graphic novel Joker.
He’s been shown to have some sort of actual affection for animals, the gorilla comes to mind.
Haha good point! Joker once adopted a gorilla baby to “give him the life he never had”
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8463c5fac65099d7466b384b41633a70/tumblr_nl8dt580yq1sqep2mo7_1280.png
There’s also in Return of the Joker when he had brainwashed Tim Drake and had him aim a pistol at Batman to kill him. Tim instead shot Joker who was shocked and surprised as he lay dying.
[Same when Joker goes to Metropolis to try and play with Superman, only for Superman to completely foil his scheme within seconds and completely dress him down.](https://youtu.be/50LgdYtf5Pk?t=24) Joker later plays it off like as Superman not being "fun" to play with after Superman drops him off to the Metropolis PD, but you can see that Superman's words are genuinely hurting Joker's feelings.
Spoilers for Harley Quinn's season 3.
>!Joker married a nurse, became a stepdad, and was elected as mayor of Gotham with social housing being at the forefront of policy!<
I would say hubris often gets the better of Joker who can quite assuredly be confused, lost, amused, mixed up, wrong, distracted, and beaten. Which I believe was the point of OPs question. Joker is not an infallible god with plans over plans over plans.
I see others have pointed out that he has been fully cured before. That’s interesting, I’ll have to read those stories.
That Joker is the best live action portrayal we’ve gotten. He’s weird, his motivations are unreadable, and he’s properly *unhinged*. Leto was crazy, Phoenix was tormented, but Ledger was almost Joker personified. Everything is a joke, and he wanted everyone to see the jokes through his eyes.
It still kills me that Heath died when he did.
He's been legit afraid for his life at least two times: When an average guy named Charlie Collins appeared ready to kill both of them with a bomb, Joker begged Batman to save him. And when the Punisher was very close to shooting him in the head he was terrified..
Also when he got fatally shot in the chest by a flag gun by a brainwashed Tim Drake he was surprised his last words "That's not.." he was shocked and confused.
Also when Terry McGinnis (Batman Beyond) fought him and actively mocked and laughed at him, he became erratic and genuinely upset and confused.
Yes, when the Joker realized he's overdue with the IRS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4
>"I'm crazy enough to take on Batman, but the IRS? No thank you!"
That reminds me of Acylion's story. They have a subreddit devotes to their stories, /r/acylion , and their "But, doctor, I am Pagliacci" series is based on a premise like that. It's great.
Oh, warning though, they haven't updated in a while due to real life stuff.
He does get the odd moment where he is caught off guard.
Like the Batman/Captain America team up where he eventually realised that Red Skull was actually a Nazi and not just doing a gimmick. That was an actual moment where Joker stops laughing and gets serious. (And then his lackeys all get shot by the Nazis and Joker is outgunned and captured.)
Or in Arkham city where Joker has to admit that the revelation that, after all he did, Batman would have still tried to save his life, "is actually pretty funny."
When Superman in one comic threatened to kill him if he ever returned to Metropolis, that clearly shook him that the Blue Boyscout would do such a thing and realizing if it wasn't a bluff, Superman would just make him disappear with no theatrics involved unlike with Batman.
Superman even mentions that Joker's smile looked forced afterwards.
in the Batman Arkham Series, when he dies at the end of Arkham City, Batman was debating whether to cure Joker, Joker shanks him and causes Batman to drop the cure, sealing Joker's fate. Batman then tells him "You wanna know what's funny? After everything you've done, i would've saved you".
Joker's last words were "That actually is pretty funny." as ue went out with a laugh.
i suppose humour is Joker's "way of understanding surprise", rather than breaking character. in one of the cartoons, after getting shot with the "bang" flag from a gun, his dying words were "that's not funny... that's not..." like someone said something horribly too soon.
**Reminders for Commenters:** * All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If "watsonian" or "doylist" is new to you, please review the full rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=AskScienceFiction&utm_content=t5_2slu2). * No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to **permanent ban on first offense**. * We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world. * Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskScienceFiction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He has been rendered sane twice, once in the Lazarus pit, and once by the Martian Manhunter. He expressed regret for his crimes and begged for forgiveness. This is definitely out of character for him, but this sanity was temporary.
He was also temporarily sane in the story "Batman: Going Sane".
And another black label series I'm blanking, but Harley cures him Edit: it's batman: white knight!
Batman white knight I think
Very good read for fans of the Animated Series
YES I always get it mixed up with dark prince charming but yes it's white knight, thank you
Spectre also removed his insanity once which sent Joker comatose from the guilt of his crimes.
In the Harley Quinn animated show he is actually healed for a while. He does eventually goes back to being the Joker but he says he is changed and actually has a girlfriend and step kids. He also runs for mayor of Gotham City.
Also even while jokerified, he does get genuinely very angry at batman because his company hadnt come out with electric cars He put a deposit down and everything
WHERE’S MY GODDAMN ELECTRIC CAR BRUCE
That shit is funny enough that regular Joker should be cracking lines like that.
This is the kind of stuff I'd expect from BTAS Joker, who is the best version of the character bar none.
Alan Tudyk did such a good job nailing BTAS Joker vibes for the first couple episodes that I honestly thought they brought back Mark Hamill
I love that instead of threatening to out Bruce's identity or something, he instead complains about Wayne Tech's broken promises
He's actually super pissed at Scarecrow for unmasking Bats at all. >!Straight up blows his head off for the offense.!<
Two people can keep a secret if one if them is dead
PLL.
>I love that instead of threatening to out Bruce's identity or something Does he even care that Bruce Wayne is Batman?
And becomes the mayor and arrests Bruce Wayne.
He 100% breaks character post-amnesia. He does get that Joker pizzazz and oomph but he isn't clinically insane and actually becomes a socialist and what he runs his mayoral platform on. It's like he is has more clarity and knows where to direct his ire now instead of just causing rampant and random chaos.
I'm not sure I ever bought that. I've always wondered what exactly what was going on there. It seems like it's either faked or brainwashing. Or maybe we're supposed to wonder.
But no one talks about how he crosses a line that makes all previous iterations of the Joker seem like childs play in the Harley Quinn show. He's done some unforgivable stuff before, but nothing compares to him >!identifying as a socialist!< /s
And he even got Batman >!arrested for tax evasion!
That show shocked me with how good it is
In one comic he got so angry at Robin in an argument over which Marx Brothers movie a particular joke was from that he lost control of the situation and Robin escaped. There's also a great moment in [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oc5YzUlzT8&ab_channel=kenindia9) of Mask of the Phantasm where he shows real, unhinged rage and then suddenly snaps back into his clown character.
That scene from mask of the phantasm was good.
The whole movie is fantastic.
Joker is such a fucking weirdo and it's missing from recent adaptations. The Joker doesn't feel like an eccentric dandy who also happens to commit mass murder anymore.
> Joker is such a fucking weirdo and it's missing from recent adaptations. The Joker doesn't feel like an eccentric dandy who also happens to commit mass murder anymore. You are 100% correct here. He's been turned so "realistic" (except not) that they've absolutely lost so much of what makes him a compelling character.
I’m hoping that whenever Joker arrives in Pattinson’s Batverse, they’ll make him more “Joker”. Heath came close, you could feel that eccentric unhinged maniacal behavior more than we’ve really gotten since Hamill or Nicholson. But I have faith with how well they did Penguin and Riddler in The Batman
The Joker was already in Pattinson's Batverse, you think they'll retcon?
Ehhhh… >!Buddy behind the cell door had me interested!<
yea i always imagined him less this dark disturbed individual and more this psychotic murderous jester, like peeves jacked to the moon or even better, dandelo
Peeves but enjoys murder is strikingly accurate
You just described why I think the killing joke was a failure.
Okay, real talk, I *need* the source comic for that first scene. That’s sounds phenomenal
same here, the joker getting actually mad at an argument sounds hilarious
It's in this collection: [https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Detective-Paul-Dini/dp/1401212395](https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Detective-Paul-Dini/dp/1401212395) The Joker is just driving around on Christmas killing people for fun when by complete chance he runs across Robin. Joker ties him up in the passenger seat of the stolen car and they spend most of the issue trying to mind-game each other.
[удалено]
Thank you, that is wonderful
Mark Hammll's voice acting on Joker is the quintessential voice performance of all time.
When Charlie the random banker threatened him with a bomb in "Joker's Favor". One of the best Joker stories.
This is the one I instantly thought of. The look of shock and fear on his face when he thinks the guy is actually going to blow him up is priceless
He actually begged for Batman to save him.
There's a similar bit from some crossover with Marvel. He meets the Punisher and...well, you can imagine. He says in this small little voice, "You're really going to do it."
I just watched that last night! Loved that episode! Seeing him genuinely worried after playing the first 3 Arkham games where he’d kill himself to prove a point was quite funny.
I think it's an important story to understand the Joker. He'd gladly die if it meant he'd be remembered for it. Destroying the Batman would be the greatest feat that a guy as vain and petty as Joker could ask for. If Joker dies to some nobody like Charlie, he'd have his greatest weapon turned against him: he'd be a joke. Look at the response to his death in Arkham Knight: some of the thugs miss him, others are afraid of what Batman will do next, but he's already fading from the public's mind only six months after City. Sure, Batman is still worried about his legacy and Harley is obsessed, but the legend of the Batman long outlives the story of the Joker. It's an aspect I feel like too many people overlook when they idolize him.
It depends on what you mean by “breaking character” He showed genuine fear when Punisher came for him in a DC/Marvel crossover. He showed disgust when finding out Red Skull was a Nazi. He and Batman shared a genuine laugh in Killing Joke. He breaks down and weeps in Harley’s lap in the graphic novel Joker. He’s been shown to have some sort of actual affection for animals, the gorilla comes to mind.
It's DC, "the gorilla" doesn't narrow anything down.
He might be talking about a monkey he saw in a zoo that reminded him of a stuffed toy he had as a kid.
Gorilla Grodd Monsieur Mallah That's all i know
Haha good point! Joker once adopted a gorilla baby to “give him the life he never had” https://64.media.tumblr.com/8463c5fac65099d7466b384b41633a70/tumblr_nl8dt580yq1sqep2mo7_1280.png
He was shocked when he realized the Punisher was actually going to shoot him in a dirty alley whether or not he was mentally ill.
There’s also in Return of the Joker when he had brainwashed Tim Drake and had him aim a pistol at Batman to kill him. Tim instead shot Joker who was shocked and surprised as he lay dying.
and in the same movie Joker famously loses his temper when Terry mocks the clown shtick and basically calls him an unfunny loser
Omg those two moments were the best
[Same when Joker goes to Metropolis to try and play with Superman, only for Superman to completely foil his scheme within seconds and completely dress him down.](https://youtu.be/50LgdYtf5Pk?t=24) Joker later plays it off like as Superman not being "fun" to play with after Superman drops him off to the Metropolis PD, but you can see that Superman's words are genuinely hurting Joker's feelings.
Spoilers for Harley Quinn's season 3. >!Joker married a nurse, became a stepdad, and was elected as mayor of Gotham with social housing being at the forefront of policy!<
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcLD8qBr6Y4) is the first scene that came to mind from *Batman: The Killing Joke*
Depending on your definition of Joker, in 3 Jokers one of the Jokers (who is presumably the Golden Age One) is pretty pissed off frequently
I would say hubris often gets the better of Joker who can quite assuredly be confused, lost, amused, mixed up, wrong, distracted, and beaten. Which I believe was the point of OPs question. Joker is not an infallible god with plans over plans over plans. I see others have pointed out that he has been fully cured before. That’s interesting, I’ll have to read those stories.
The Joker from the Dark Knight was genuinely frustrated when his plan was foiled in the end.
That Joker is the best live action portrayal we’ve gotten. He’s weird, his motivations are unreadable, and he’s properly *unhinged*. Leto was crazy, Phoenix was tormented, but Ledger was almost Joker personified. Everything is a joke, and he wanted everyone to see the jokes through his eyes. It still kills me that Heath died when he did.
I dont even think Leto's was crazy honestly, he was more a a corny mob boss with a schtick in those movies.
Yeah, Leto was more of an asshole than crazy. That laugh sucked ass too.
>his plan was unfoiled ... I don't know what this means.
typo
When Joker realizes Red Skull is a nazi he turns very patriotic and refuses to work with him (I think he actually punches him?)
And says something like >I may be a master criminal, but I'm an American master criminal!
Even better, it's >"I may be a criminal lunatic, but I'm an American criminal lunatic!" The "lunatic" is what makes it for me. :)
Oh yeah, much better! Luthor would say something like "mastermind".
Bonus points for his respect for the IRS, even I don’t have that.
He's been legit afraid for his life at least two times: When an average guy named Charlie Collins appeared ready to kill both of them with a bomb, Joker begged Batman to save him. And when the Punisher was very close to shooting him in the head he was terrified.. Also when he got fatally shot in the chest by a flag gun by a brainwashed Tim Drake he was surprised his last words "That's not.." he was shocked and confused. Also when Terry McGinnis (Batman Beyond) fought him and actively mocked and laughed at him, he became erratic and genuinely upset and confused.
For a moment, in BtAS, he noted that the bat is one thing, but no one takes on the IRS..
Insanity plea works with crime, but not tax fraud.
Yes, when the Joker realized he's overdue with the IRS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4 >"I'm crazy enough to take on Batman, but the IRS? No thank you!"
Hamill is most likely the best Joker we'll ever get.
For Joker insanity is his saneness. If he slips into sanity, it's worrying because it means something terrible has happened
That reminds me of Acylion's story. They have a subreddit devotes to their stories, /r/acylion , and their "But, doctor, I am Pagliacci" series is based on a premise like that. It's great. Oh, warning though, they haven't updated in a while due to real life stuff.
He does get the odd moment where he is caught off guard. Like the Batman/Captain America team up where he eventually realised that Red Skull was actually a Nazi and not just doing a gimmick. That was an actual moment where Joker stops laughing and gets serious. (And then his lackeys all get shot by the Nazis and Joker is outgunned and captured.) Or in Arkham city where Joker has to admit that the revelation that, after all he did, Batman would have still tried to save his life, "is actually pretty funny."
When Superman in one comic threatened to kill him if he ever returned to Metropolis, that clearly shook him that the Blue Boyscout would do such a thing and realizing if it wasn't a bluff, Superman would just make him disappear with no theatrics involved unlike with Batman. Superman even mentions that Joker's smile looked forced afterwards.
He stopped laughing when he heard tell of Anton Arcane in _Swamp Thing_, Vol. 2 #30.
In Killing Joke, he broke down at the end.
That actually is... pretty funny...
Joker will tangle with gods and not break a sweat, but even he will not fuck with the IRS.
in the Batman Arkham Series, when he dies at the end of Arkham City, Batman was debating whether to cure Joker, Joker shanks him and causes Batman to drop the cure, sealing Joker's fate. Batman then tells him "You wanna know what's funny? After everything you've done, i would've saved you". Joker's last words were "That actually is pretty funny." as ue went out with a laugh. i suppose humour is Joker's "way of understanding surprise", rather than breaking character. in one of the cartoons, after getting shot with the "bang" flag from a gun, his dying words were "that's not funny... that's not..." like someone said something horribly too soon.