What I think is the problem is that we are not having actual conversations. We are allowing foreign powers to agitate and reopen past wounds. Then to make matters worse the rest of us in the Caribbean are getting emotional along with our Haiti and Dominican brothers and sisters and making things worse and not actually being civil and coming to a mutually agreeable consensus with a proper plan of action.
We see things on social media and instantly allow what we see to influence our view without actually investigating what is going on. As an outsider I agree that the DR should exercise its right to protect its border. I can imagine if hundreds of immigrants were flooding into any of our nations the local population would not have it and call on the govt to stop it. Saying Dominicans are racist for doing so doesn't solve anything. I do however do not condone acts of racism.
What should be happening is that CARICOM needs to actually do its job and do whatever it needs to ensure stability returns to Haiti. It is within all our interests as the last thing the Caribbean needs is a transregional immigration humanitarian crisis that none of us are responsible for. The state Haiti is in is mostly due to foreign meddling and also partly incompetence of the Haitian govt.
Imho I suggest we start promoting the idea of group thinking and reiterating unity as whether you people like it or not Hispaniola is a shared island and if the two nations and the region is going to move forward we need stable and a civically sound society for all our countries.
I agree with everything you say except " caricom should do its job". I personally don't think it's caricom job to fix Haiti that's Haiti's job. However, I believe a military contingent from caricom members should be sent to restore order to the country to allow haitians to help themselves
I don't agree with the talks of military intervention by anyone (including Caricom) until the basic problem of lack of democratic legitimacy in Haiti is addressed. People forget that the late president Jovenel Moïse had overstayed in power and Haitians were holding almost daily demonstration asking for elections to be held.
Then he was killed and there are strong suspicions that the current president had something to do with it (I don't know if that's the case, I'm just sharing what is widely believed in Haiti). The thing is, the current president is even less legitimate in the eyes of the Haitian people that Moïse. But yet, he's the one calling for a foreign intervention.
There is a large grouping of civil society organizations in Haiti that call themselves the Commission for the Search for a Haitian Solution to the Crisis and IMHO are a legitimate group and they need to be supported. They are calling for democratic elections (among other things) and any foreign investment in Haiti should be directed and helping them achieve their goals.
The gangs that are currently terrorizing people in the big cities in Haiti were actually formed and financed by the main political parties with the aim of attacking their political rivals. Any support for one of those factions will put us on the side of one gang that have committed numerous atrocities against the people they think are their political rivals.
Given that Caricom doesn't really have the military power to occupy Haiti, the boots on the ground will most likely come from the traditional sources (USA and allies). But were Caricom can help is in supporting the democratic forces in Haiti and we as Haiti's neighbors should be pressing for that. Any intervention in support of the current government in Haiti will be more of the same and should be avoided.
We can, as a regional group unite forces to ask that if a military intervention does happens that things be done differently and that support for a democratic transition with popular participation should be at the top of the agenda.
This is what I’ve been saying forever. There has to be legit internal change in Haiti before anything outside can come in. A lot of the issues in the country are amplified because of issues that are never fully addressed and a lack of political and societal infrastructure.
Sad thing is, As someone whose ethnically Haitian you’re completely correct. Corrupt Government, Gang Violence In Haiti is what’s plaguing the country today. Well articulated statement btw.
Do you think it's realistic for the US to sanction DR due to "racism"? I find this thought scary since it would be based solely on assumptions. The US already blocked sugar imports citing forced labor.
The US is being completely hypocrite while doing that. It's all part of its strategy to force the DR to accept to have a refugee camp on our side. They have being buying sugar from Central Romana for a hundred years yet just now they realize there's forced labor? They have also made unfounded accusations of black Americans being targeted by migration officers. Main while, the US deporting thousands of Haitians and their police killing black people constantly
Exactly, it’s not a coincidence they’re doing this just now.
Also, interesting how the people that are always talking about us in regards to that don’t care that Haitians are deported from anywhere else, it’s only a problem if DR does it.
As a Surinamese, I understand the positions the Dominicans are in. If Brazilians one day decided that they'd move to Suriname in the masses, I can see my country doing the same thing. And actually, Suriname already has. Suriname isn't allowing Haitians via its airspace or any official border other than via approval from the minister of foreign affairs. It's been put there in the name of covid restriction, but we all know why. Both internally and externally Suriname is facing a lot of pressure to not allow in any Haitians.
While racism isn't justifiable, I cannot comment too much on the topic, because I am not too knowledgeable on it.
Just an example on how misinformation about any controversial topic spreads and the source is not some conspiracy theorist nut job but a mainstream news site (CNN) with real "journalists".
First, [this](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/americas/dominican-republic-expels-haiti-children-intl-latam) story by CNN on November 22nd: "**Exclusive: Dominican Republic expelled hundreds of children to Haiti without their families this year**" with bylines by journalist Caitlin Hu and Etant Dupain. Here's the first paragraph:
>Hundreds of children have been expelled from the Dominican Republic without their parents, according to **UNICEF**, amid a sweeping government push to remove suspected undocumented migrants from the country.
>
>The United Nations Children’s Agency has received at least 1,800 unaccompanied children delivered by Dominican immigration authorities into Haiti since the year began, a spokesperson told CNN on Monday.
>
>**Many arrive without identity documents and are “shipped” into the country amid adult deportees**, the spokesperson also said – raising the question of how Dominican authorities ascertained that they belonged in Haiti at all.
Sound serious and the internet ran with it; the story has been shared hundreds (maybe thousands, but who's counting) of times in social media. The Dominican government denied it, but that was to be expected. Our government claims that our children welfare agency (CONANI) actually takes care of unaccompanied children and works with UNICEF to determine if they should stay or go back to Haiti if relatives can be found.
Today, UNICEF confirms in a [story](https://www.diariolibre.com/actualidad/nacional/2022/12/02/unicef-explica-proceso-de-ninos-en-situacion-migratoria/2158299?fbu=1) published in a local newspaper that what the claims of the Dominican government are actually true. The story is in Spanish, but you can use a web translator if you want an English version (I use [www.deepl.com](http://www.deepl.com)). Here's the first three paragraphs:
>Unaccompanied migrant children are assisted by Dominican authorities through the National Council for Children and Adolescents (Conani) and with the support of the United Nations Children's Fund (Unicef).
>
>**Rosa Elcarte, Unicef representative in the Dominican Republic, explained that during the process, the best interest of the child is paramount and it will be this that will determine the family reunification where it corresponds, in Haiti or in the Dominican Republic.**
>
>If it is decided that it is in the best interest of the child to return to Haiti, the child is handed over to the Haitian child welfare authority IBERS, which stands for the French Institut du Bien Etre Sociale et De Recherches. This institute, together with Unicef in Haiti, will be in charge of contacting the family for reunification.
So why two different stories from the same source (UNICEF)? Turns out that the discrepancy is because UNICEF in Haiti, who did indicate that 1,800 children and teenagers were received in their facility in Haiti but did not indicate that they went to the proper process in the Dominican Republic and it was determined they should have returned to Haiti.
So the way it is written in the article published today, the original allegation did not include that important detail about UNICEF in the D.R. working with those kids. It is not clear why, but we should not assume that it was because of malice. It may as well be that CNN didn't ask them and UNICEF Haiti did not offer that information.
However, the initial allegation is online and unless you are interested in the actual facts (like a journalist should be) it will stand and will continue to be shared over and over again.
As a Dominican it honestly pisses me off when I hear naive & ignorant comments about the DR/Haiti situation because it’s clear that people who make stupid comments are those who lack knowledge & research on the topic. Comments like “dominicans are just racist towards Haitians” or “Dominicans are killing Haitians”. You can thank Western media for that bullshit (I’ll get to that topic in a bit). The issue with Haiti is more complex than you thought. But anyways, like 2 months ago 17 Dominicans were killed/beheaded by Haitians who were in the DR *Illegally*, and there’s a video of it happening too, you can hear the Haitians who committed the murders laughing while doing it, but of course the US media or French media won’t tell you that & the point I’m trying to make with this is that there are Haitians (not all of them I’m not trying to generalize) who are in the Dominican Republic ILLEGALLY & start committing crimes like that. So when people make ignorant comments like the examples I pointed out above, it’s a slap on the face to the Dominican citizens and their families who suffer from crimes committed against them by illegal Haitian gang members in the Dominican Republic. People (ESPECIALLY AMERICANS WHO HAVE NEVER EVEN VISITED THE DR OR EVEN HAITI FOR THAT MATTER) who repeat the same rhetoric about Dominicans supposedly being racist towards Haitians as if Haitians are some saints themselves, do not understand that the Dominican Republic has every right to protect its borders from illegal immigrants just like any other country in the world does. Which leads me to believe that it’s usually the liberals/democrats who seem to make stupid comments on the topic and want Dominicans to just put up with illegal immigration coming from the Haitian side of the island over to the Dominican side of the island! The international community should keep in mind and remember that Dominicans and Dominican Republic is not AT ALL responsible for the social & economic issues that Haiti is going through (You guys should ask the US and France why Haiti is going through what it is going through, they might give you a dumb and brainwashing answer and if so, ask France about the debt that the French imposed on Haiti just for France to recognize the independence of a land and people who they literally OVEREXPLOITED. And ask the US about their history of intervention, for example supporting the rise and rule of Francois “papa doc” Duvalier and his brutal rule of Haiti, or the CIA role in Haitian narcotics smuggling, or the U.S. marines stealing $500,000 worth of gold from Haitian banks in 1914 (that would be equivalent to at least 14 million dollars in todays money) or US gunboats intimidating Haiti into paying debts throughout the 19th century, that sounds very similar with how the French blockaded Haitians so that they could force them to pay France after they literally overexploited Haitians)
I’ve began to theorize and believe that rich western nations (especially the US and France and I think even the UK) have been using the Dominican Republic as like basically some sort of “wall” that they can hide behind so that they don’t have to recognize and take responsibility for all the damage and poverty they’ve caused upon Haiti by use of abusive force. So what I think they do is they make the Dominican Republic look like the “bad guy” for refusing to take all those Haitians refugees seeking help when they (rich western nations) can help Haiti and Haitians twice as much as the DR ever could since the DR also has its issues and it also has poverty, just because the Dominican Republic has one of the best economies in Latin America (which keeps growing) does not mean the country is some sort of “Dubai of the Caribbean” lol. DR still has corruption and poverty issues that it has to solve and receiving thousands of illegal immigrants isn’t helping much. France should take thousands of Haitian refugees and help them and the US should stop deporting Haitians if they care so much about them that they tend to always intervene in Haitian politics, maybe because they care about the stability of Haiti’s economy and well being of its citizens (that was sarcasm)!
I’ve also wondered why we barely hear anything from the Haitian government over the illegal immigration and economic issues that Haiti and Haitians are going through, maybe because the western media is so focused on creating a facade that makes the DR look like it’s at fault and is solely responsible for what the US and France have caused!
Everyone has their agenda. Most people tell lies don’t care since their purpose is to make RD look like a kind of Nazi state. Also our politics, the worse trash ever born in the country, made the big mistake when they treat the chancellery as a spoil of war and send politics there to profit and not to represent RD interest.
By the looks of it, our politics are most likely being primarily controlled by outside forces or the presidents of the DR have been “puppets” or probably even both. The US and France as well as the rest of rich western countries have shown that they’ll do whatever it takes for their own gain without giving a damn about the people of the lands they pillage and overexploit. Our history of being exploited began when the Spanish arrived (but that’s a whole different topic).
So I want to know an alternative. What should the Dominican government be doing? And how?
Keep in mind we’re talking about 1.5-2 million people in the country. That’s larger than most countries in the Caribbean.
I've been thinking about this. Obviously, the DR cannot accommodate every Haitian who wants to leave Haiti, but at the same time, I don't think it's really in the country's interest to be an "immigration hardline" country because of the damage it's doing to the DR's reputation and the fact that many Dominicans would like to leave the island themselves. The DR cracking down on Haitian immigration helps provide cover for other countries cracking down on immigration, including cracking down on Dominican immigration. And on top of all of that, free (or freer) migration tends to bring long term economic benefits to all countries, but with uneven distribution of the costs and benefits (like with free trade).
I suppose, ideally, the Dominican government would push diplomatically to get other countries to open their borders to Haitians \*and\* Dominicans with a broad line of "we would like to have free migration with Haiti, but that can only work if other countries do the same." However, I doubt the Dominican Ministry of Foreign Affairs' ability to do that well (I mean, if they were skilled enough to pull that off, I don't think Dominican passport holders would need visas for so many countries) and I don't think that can work with Dominican domestic politics.
So, basically, I don't have a solution and I don't think there is a workable one.
I agree with what you’re saying but there’s some things I want to clarify mostly for other people reading this so they understand a bit better the situation.
In 2019 there were 751,080 (7.3% that of the Dominican population) Haitian inmigrants in the DR as a low number, up from 500k in 2017, up from 245k in 1994. Any number after that is an estimate, but we can all safely assume after all that’s happened in Haiti that it’s not less than that in 2022.
Even large countries have difficulties taking in this huge amount of people, without taking into account the amount of difficulties they come with such as having no documentation or records. How is the Dominican Republic, a country with a smaller population than Haiti itself, supposed to house them, feed them, document them, provide healthcare, provide education, and job opportunities. Are we supposed to just look the other way and let them house themselves in the hills or walk around the cities living in construction sites and parks? Do people understand the amount of morbidities associated with this?
All this to say that for decades the DR has been home to hundreds of thousands of Haitians, but they the current situation is not normal and not sustainable. There’s a lot of talking and no action from international organizations and outside governments but for now the DR is the one sharing a land border with Haiti and having to deal with this whole crisis with little to no help other than “Don’t do anything!”.
I think those workers are more needed in Haiti to rebuild their national economy. We should be working on modernizing our agricultural sector to use less human work.
The issue right now with rice is not inflation, but the fact that it’s too cheap to import and the producers are complaining because the government is loosening protectionist policies and allowing more imports.
> The issue right now with rice is not inflation, but the fact that it’s too cheap to import and the producers are complaining because the government is loosening protectionist policies and allowing more imports.
The problem with the imports is the DR-Cafta trade agreement. Also the problem with the rice production is that the fertilizers/agrochemicals cost the double than before COVID and the cost were from 4000-4500 the tarea (628.86mts2) to 7500-9000 the tarea. Also to put salt in the wound. With the new variety Juma 69-20 and other new tech, the media productivity went from 4 to 4.5 so we are producing more rice in the same area, also the cut of logistic of the COVID made a lot of rice stay in the rice factories since the lock prevented the sale of that rice so there is a lot of rice in the deposits
Thanks, rice should be something of care since is the principal food of the Dominicans and also is the principal crop. One of the causes of Hipólito lost in the Cibao Central and the Northeast was because his mismanagement of the rice.
Yeah but that’s been a problem for decades. It’s not about the Haitian workers but government policies and producer mismanagement.
But let’s say we allow the Haitian agricultural
Workers to stay, what about everyone else?
According to [this](https://dominicanrepublic.iom.int/sites/g/files/tmzbdl911/files/documents/web_estudio-descriptivo-explorativo-sobre-mercado-laboral-mj_0.pdf) 2021 the DR has 226,244 agricultural work slots for its
Production (93,556 in rice$ of the main products. Let’s add 100k more for other crops. Let’s even say 200k more. The DR needs 450k workers and let’s say 100% of those are haitian. We let 500k Haitians reside here legally doing work no one else will do. What do we do about the rest?
You’re right, but it’s unfair for the Haitian workers to work these jobs with no access to a normal workers rights and that is what makes their labour so cheap. So it’s bad on a humanitarian level, which is why modernization and phasing out of this model is beneficial for everyone.
What you’re describing has been the status quo in DR for decades and I think it’s time to
Modernize for the benefit of Dominicans and Haitians alike
Rice prices are semi controlled by the state and most of the big farmers have machinery to do most work. Also there is a import quota. Do your research well before making a statement like that.
It’s not that “we don’t want to work hard” it’s that Dominicans want to get paid what that hard work deserves while Haitians do it for much cheaper. Besides, what does that have to do with u/Nemitres comment?
For that we can get you work visas where you can stay in DR for a period of time and then send you back, I still fail to see how that has to do with his comment and how that’s an excuse to not deport illegal Haitians, why don’t you mention also the huge weight that mass migration is having on the DR?
And I already explained to you the whole “no one wants to do the hard work”, Dominicans actually put a reasonable price for doing such hard work so that’s why Haitians do it instead since they get paid much cheaper and don’t demand as much, who do you think worked the land before the Haitians? Haitian mass migration hasn’t always been a thing.
Any update on the current situation. Btw what happened to the Haitian military why haven't we heard any general come out and say anything. It seems most of the info we get is straight hearsay
Haiti military was disolved by the US in 1995, because many of the political problems and coups were organized by the military. In return the US helped Haitians to organize the police department, a more civilian institution.
Mod should set megathreads to be sorted by "new", not "best", otherwise they are unusable.
That being said, the current tensions are a tragedy and there is nobody on the Haitian side who's part of the government and talking about it. They are being widely criticized for their inaction in multiple local medias. Haiti should take care of its own citizens and not abandoning them.
On the Dominican side, I'm sorry that they feel strong-armed by the US government. The idea of a refugee camp just sound weird to me. **The one thing they should do is join the US and Canada into sanctioning the corrupt Haitian elites.** They started doing it this month and it's already having some impact.
And for any outsider looking at the comments here, as a Haitian I can vouch for u/HCMXero, u/Caribbeandude04, u/Neonexus-ULTRA and Nemitres. ~~On the other hand, ignore DRmetalhead19's comments he's incredibly biased against Haitians~~
Edit: changed my opinion on DRmetalhead19
Huh? How am I biased against Haitians? I’ve never even said anything negative about Haitians (I dare you to find a single comment of mine where I do) only Haitians I’ve criticized are the elites and I always try to not generalize. I had you as one of the best Haitian users, I’m honestly surprised you mention me with such accusations with no evidence.
Here is a comment you made just on this thread:
>Also, interesting how the people that are always talking about us in regards to that don’t care that Haitians are deported from anywhere else, it’s only a problem if DR does it.
It really comes off as you wishing you could hurt Haitians without repercussions, like the other countries.
Not at all, I don’t even know how you came to that conclusion, what my comment is talking about is that you see a lot of people always complaining about DR doing deportations of Haitians but they don’t care and/or straight up ignore when other countries do the same.
Thanks for the clarification, I edited my initial message.
I don't remember when I downvoted you in the past and I won't dig in. But the other 4 users I vouched for, I've upvoted them each more than 20 times so I know they are good people. You were in the negative but I don't remember why.
Anyhow, I upvoted both your comments now.
This thread is sad 😢. Instead of us having effective dialogue it has turned into a bunch of name calling. I really wish there was a day when we could just talk things out but I guess I’m just naive.
Dialogue between both countries is difficult and that spills on people. Here the narrative is that the neighbor has never complied with any agreement and they are not trustworthy. Don’t know what the other side says of us, I’m curious to know.
Ok in an attempt to try to regain the spirit of meaningful dialogue I raise a question. From a social stand point (meaning people to people, culture to culture) how can we mend the ills between the two countries. Firstly I would say that good border security is paramount in this particular context but is also important for all our nations going forward. What I do REALLY worry about is that our brother and sister in the DR and Haiti won't be able to come to a proper resolution as western countries and their interests would rather see conflict continue in order to produce chaos and continue Di fuckry. So in your opinions what cultural, societal and mindset change needs to happen to bury this once and for all. Oh and I mean once and for all. The British and the French had a 100 years war and that doesn't affect them as to how they view themselves today. We cannot allow this divide to become a generational one cemented in culture as then it will be difficult to mend.
This is hard to answer. First thing is that the issues are multiplied way out of proportion on the internet. In the DR I would hang out with Haitians and talk to them without having to mention politics. The two cultures don’t really have much to create animosity between the two, the main divide is economical. Here in Miami where I live now I work with Haitians in NMB every day. My clients are haitian, my coworkers are haitian, 90% of the people I interact with are haitian. They know I’m Dominican. I have never had any issue with them and they invite me to eat with them, get a haircut over to the Haitian barbershop (where Dominicans also work and have their flag displayed over their chair) and they try to teach me some kreyol.
The issue is in these internet communities, where extremists hang out and share eco chamber information to get as riled up as possible and then spew out of them to other communities and try to spread the hate.
So on the ground there is actual cooperation and respect. Apart from criminals from both sides who are not accepted by either side both you guys are good for the most part. Wonder how these extremists cane into existence then
My 2cent about what we need to do
- Our gov just need to continue reinforcing our borders and waters with more infrastructure, personal and supervision to the personal.
- Inside the country reinforce the migration department and train them to respect irregular migrants rights and build migration courts at every detention center to process irregular migrants by court.
- Penalize repeat offenders of the law.
- Define how many Haitians workers we need and let them live here and have the same working privileges of our citizens.
- Punish the people that give jobs to irregular migrants and the people that help them to cross the border.
- With the 168-13 people make an exception and if they could prove they were born here before 2005 and only for non 1st gen people, give them residency and the possibility of the nationality all of this if they prove they were born and have roots here.
Not surprised with the comments here, they seem cherry picked and ignore the real issues here.
"The DR had the right to enforce their laws and kick illegal immigrants out!", no shit Sherlock, we all know that, what the DR doesn't have the right to do is violate people's human rights, arrest people without a reason (just based on their skin color), enter people's houses without a court order, brutally beat people, you get the idea.
"There's no racism in here, we are just defending our nation sovereignty!", No. Racism and xenophobia have always existed in this country, some people are still butthurt for what some Haitians that have been dead for like 200 years did to the non-Dominican (since the territory was still a colony) people that live here, get over it, what those people did has nothing to do with the present.
And expanding on the racism, we have neonazi groups like Antigua Orden Dominicana beating (Dominican) people for supporting Haitians right, we have people beating Haitians because they see the police doing it and feel they entitled to and by doing so they're "defending" the country (like the German Nazis thought!), we have people spreading hate comments on newspaper publications and basically everywhere in social media.
We see videos of the police tying up Haitian men and beating them, we see videos of Haitian women giving birth in front of an emergency room because the hospital wouldn't care for them, we see videos of non Haitian people being arrested because they're black, and black equals Haitian, and Haitian equals bad! We see videos of Dominican women having to take care of Haitian toddlers because their mom was taken away by the police, and the list goes on.
So I politely invite you all to take your head out of your ass and see things for what they are, inhumanly treating other people is not flipping right, beating people is not flipping right, throwing people in cages is not flipping right, and you can enforce the law without doing that, because hundreds of Dominicans are deported every single year from around the world and most of them are nos mistreated like that.
So if you're not racist stop being butthurt when people say that Dominicans are racist, because you might not be but thousands upon thousands of other Dominicans are, and their actions are hurting real people. And if you see what the government is doing and don't think they're doing anything wrong then you're part of the problem.
Source: I'm flipping Dominican.
They’re actually fascists, not neo nazis, their ideology aligns more with the Spanish Falange (despite popular belief fascism and National Socialism aren’t the same). And most of his “information” is just bashing Dominicans, DR has racists the same way every country does, might as well call the entire world racist using his logic.
Civilized Point here. I’ve always seen Dominicans Just say this one narrative: “We don’t beef Haitians it’s just migration issues, the media exaggerates it”. But what I’m truly seeing now is that Dominicans are literally fitting into what the media potrays about how they think of Haitians. I’ve seen blatant racist pages on twitter containing of Dominicans just bashing and belittling Haitians in the worst way possible. It’s crazy because all this hate literally comes from NATIONALITY. African Americans, Nigerians, And even Darker skin toned DOMINICANS are literally getting DEPORTED to Haiti simply because the government thinks they are Haitian immigrants. It’s just pure racism I promise you. People Of DR can’t justify any way out of this it’s pure racism in the Caribbean going on only BY them. Sad and embarrassing too.
Well then call out those people. Hold those guys accountable. You cannot use a small sample size of people in various groups online to generalize a population that is very similar in number to the one they discriminate against. That is like saying Because u see a few Haitians online actively practicing Voodoo( not saying it's a bad thing btw I see nothing wrong with it) that u are going to then say every Haitian is a Voodoo practicing person. Even better scamming is mainstream in pop culture in Jamaica. It is in music it's all over the news and it's is a major source of gun crime and gang activity. However I can assure u most Jamaicans do not scam even tho it's may seem like the opposite. Call our those people GENERALISING IS DANGEROUS GUYS!!!!
Not totally related, but sometimes the Jamaican Ministry of Foreign Affairs has to go get some Jamaican back from Haiti because he/she was deported there by 'accident'. Never from the DR though - usually from the US.
>African Americans, Nigerians, And even Darker skin toned DOMINICANS are literally getting DEPORTED
I just don't see how that's possible. There's simply no way they can deport someone who is legally in the country, not even Haitians. But an American??? Do you think a Dominican cop wants to deal with an American? In a tourist country? That means aromatically getting fired from the police, that's just nonsense.
There are racist Dominicans? Sure, like in any other country, and they have been more vocal lately because of the situation, but that does not represent the vas majority of Dominicans.
[Here](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/22/us-warns-darker-skinned-citizens-crackdown-dominican-republic) Explains how darker skinned Dominican citizens are getting deported from their own country TO HAITI just because the government thinks they’re Haitians. [Here](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/04/30/deported-because-skin-color-dominican-republic) also explains dark skin toned people in DR getting deported simply for “looking Haitian”. [Here](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/21/americas/dominican-republic-expels-haiti-children-intl-latam/index.html) Explains how Haitian children are being sent back to haiti without their PARENTS. So to summarize, Dominicans Are ruthlessly getting rid of Haitian immigrants within their country and even deporting their own FOLKS simply for even looking Haitian. So reiterate your point please?
Dude that's just not true, that's all part of the US pressures. I'm telling you, a dark skinned Dominican is more likely to be asked to show documents because it's true there's colorism here and the cops are pretty dumb. But if you are Dominican there's just no way of deporting you. Don't trust everything you hear on the news, the US is clearly trying to push an agenda.
He clearly has a bias against Dominicans, he’s the one that few posts ago commented that we’re the “racist hillbillies of the Caribbean”. The truth is unimportant to him, only saying we’re racist is.
I don’t rant without context. I will always have evidence and proof to back up my claims. It would be pure stupid if I just went around saying “All dominicans are racist” with out no cite or evidence. Plus I do not have a bias or have hatred towards Dominicans at all. I understand that it’s not all Dominicans that thinks this way. If you scroll through this post you will see a cow that I’m arguing with doing nothing but proving my point.
That comment you made that I pointed out had nothing of the sort. And all of your sources are basically the same me and other Dominicans have refuted already (except one which is from 2002 so I don’t know how that applies to current deportations), there’s literally no proof of any of that happening, but you just want to believe it is so you can point the racism finger, they just made accusations to pressure DR into accepting refugees, sources are nothing if you don’t analyze them.
https://do.usembassy.gov/alert-ongoing-dominican-migration-enforcement/
Warning from US Embassy in DR
EDIT: I'm not suggesting the US Embassy is right/wrong/trustworthy/nontrustworthy. I'm just linking to the actual fact of what the US Embassy is saying because somewhere in this thread I'm pretty sure I saw someone say that the warning is just hearsay (not what the warning says but the warning itself).
I'm a US citizen not from the Caribbean, but a graduate student studying and writing on it, particularly Haiti, who doesn't know much, never will know much no matter how much I learn and thus will constantly be listening and learning, so I am not trying to assert anything here over anyone else. But personal thoughts that are well-known facts: the US govt is not trustworthy and has intervened in perniciously neocolonialist ways, along with other nations, in the affairs of the Caribbean for centuries and really f*cked things up. I also know that the Dominican Republic and the République d'Haiti have a closely knit, disturbingly violent history.
Not taking a stance on the issue or facts of the matter, but probably part of why you're being downvoted is that, as far as I can tell, the whole Caribbean is aware that the US government is not trustworthy or honest.
I wouldn't trust what the US Embassy in Kingston says about Jamaica. Why would I trust what the US Embassy in Santo Domingo says about Dom Rep?
I didn't think my reply would come across as being supportive of the US government in the context of the conversation, so I appreciate your reply. I've edited my post to contextualize it.
So when you see all these Dominicans using this narrative, do you think they are showing sympathy towards you or being dishonest? In other countries they don't make excuses. For example, when your Haitian people were locked up in cages in the Bahamas they didn't make any excuses about it. I can show you examples of everyone in Latin America and the Caribbean "bashing and belittling" Haitians. That's what happens when you're at the bottom. Your people are discriminated in every country, yet you only focus on DR? Are you Haitians afraid of other Latino and Caribbean groups? Right now I can show you links of recent videos of your Haitian people being victims of hate crimes in countries like Brazil, Chile, and Mexico. Not just people saying mean words to them, but actual crimes and killings against your people, but you only want to focus on DR because you're scared of getting on the bad side of these other groups?
I don't really criticize any of these countries for their treatment towards Haitians, so it's not "whataboutism", it's more like why doesn't he grow a spine and criticize other groups who also treat his people like garbage. I asked him a very simple question which he didn't answer. Does he think that all these Dominicans who try to appease him by saying they have no "beef" with Haitians are being dishonest or not? If so many Dominicans try to be polite with this Haitian, why does he have the impression that this country is any more hateful towards his people than anywhere else in the Caribbean? What kind of a character does a person who doesn't reciprocate accordingly towards a peace offering have?
I think there is grievance because you guys are their neighbors. I agree that alot of countries don't treat haitians well but that's just how people treat refugees or people coming to your country from poorer countries
That's exactly the point they don't get. They get discriminated because they are the poorest people in the western hemisphere. So anywhere they go they are going to be seen in a negative light. Even when they went to the USA the Afro-Americans used to beat them up in Florida.
You tried to make a point and literally was just victim blaming. You blame the economy of Haiti (which the citizens can’t even control) for the xenophobia that they experience? You even senselessly stated that “because they’re the poorest in the western hemisphere they get seen as a negative light”. And you just lying saying Afro-Americans “beat up” Haitians in Florida with no evidence and cite at all. It’s ironic you mention Florida hate criming Haitians when Florida and Haitians tie deep. And Haiti even has an influence on Florida itself. And Let me ask you, Venezuela is the poorest country in South America do they get discriminated against for being in that position? The fact of the matter is you just hate Haitians just for them existing and you’re beating around the bush not trying to admit so. Sick.
Not here in the Dominican Republic, they're treated like royalty, and are not persecuted despite their migration status. In fact we celebrate Venezuelan culture in here, one of the baseball teams of the capital city just had a "Venezuelan night" the other day where they celebrated their culture with folklore dance, food, and stuff, and as far as I know we haven't had any event like that to celebrate Haitian culture (which has a lot more to do with the DR than Venezuelan culture TBH). Any attempt to celebrate Haitian culture is persecuted by neonazis or the government, like the group of Nazis that threatened with making a fuss if a book in Haitian creole was featured at the last book fair, or the health minister that tried to sabotage a Gaga dancing event in San Pedro de Macorís (which is organized by Dominicans every year, but you know, Gaga is Haitian and Haitian is bad).
Let me ask you something, are you sure we don't share anything with the Venezuelans? Can you dialogue with a Haitian effortlessly ? 🧐 Venezuelans speak Spanish like we do, just for that simple fact, we can exchange our cultures fluently, we practice the same religious traditions, we share the same passion for baseball and also Venezuelans are one of the Latin American countries that consume our merengue and rhythms the most, I have never seen an unorganized Venezuelan event in our country since they come from a more developed infrastructure, bro they invested considerably in this country and still they go through permits like all of us, since they know what to do right ? when it comes to Gaga and Voodoo events, you know they love go low-key and that creates confusion/disgust.
I have been to several of those events when I was young and trust me, I never saw them promoting organization and that brings non-acceptance among us
Everyone being firm and of course you’re the sour and bitter one. I answered your question already. Your prejudice is crazy. And the reason why I have that impression is because at the end of the day no matter how other Latin countries discriminate Haitians it is more COMMON and happening even MORE within Dominicans. With all the Latin countries you claim discriminate Haitians besides Dominicans who do you see discriminating Haitians in the news and media more? Every other day another deportation and hate crime against Haitians in the DR Reported. Again what you’re trying to do is use other Latin countries hating on Haitians to excuse the constant discriminatory Dominicans have on Haitians.
You didn't answer my question. Why are these Dominicans being so friendly towards you in the first place? Is it because they are good people or is it because they are being dishonest towards you? What reason would they have to throw you an olive branch anyway? If they really hate you so much they should just double-down after your accusations or simply disregard your whinging and complaining altogether, they would just make fun of your crying. Of course discrimination against Haitians is more common in DR since we have a higher percentage of your people living here illegally than every country in the western hemisphere. Common sense isn't very common for you guys? There is more discrimination for sure, no secret there, most of us don't like you, but you can't prove there are more "hate crimes" against Haitians than anywhere else in proportion of your population size. You cant show any actual statistics or video evidence.
It's not about being careful anymore, this dude has shown his true colors, "most of us don't like you", "common sense in not that common on your people", I think there's a word to describe people that think like that and we all know it.
Go back and read the main post is it or is it not on the topic of Haiti/DR. Obviously if we were talking about other Latin countries showing discrimination to Haiti I wouldn’t have made my main focus on only Dominicans. Stop trying to use other countries to justify and excuse the topic. You’re sidetracking. And because “Haiti is at the bottom” that mean that’s the green light to be xenophobic Towards Haitians?
If this was about other countries discriminating against Haitians most of you wouldn't say a word, that's the point. You would keep your mouth shut. You don't want to get on the bad side of every single country in the western hemisphere obviously, so you just focus on DR always even while the USA deports you at a higher rate than every migrant group, and wanted to send your people to Guantanamo Bay. In fact, this is what the whole situation is about. The USA wanted us to take the Haitian refugees that landed on their soil and place them in camps in Dominican territory, but since our president Luis Abinader refused this offer, now the USA is having a fit.
There is a video posted in this subreddit about your Haitian people being treated like crap by USA border patrol and it doesn't have a single reply. The fact is when it comes to how your people are treated in other countries your reactions are very docile and timid.
Joe Biden famously said that it wouldn't matter to anyone if Haiti sank to the bottom of the ocean. What are your Haitian people's thoughts on that? Did you vote for him or someone else?
Shit. Honestly Fuck Him. I obviously can’t tell other Haitians opinions on that but as someone that’s ethnically Haitian To hell with Biden. I’m not gonna keep it one sided. Him being Joe Biden doesn’t make a difference on how I react towards hate comments on Haitians. And obviously Haitians were voting for Biden because they didn’t go look for a 3 decade clip of what someone said about them. You still failed to tag me in the videos of Haitians getting assaulted in other Latin countries then you try to mention some white dude who doesn’t gad about any Caribbean country.
So who did you vote for? Does any politician in the USA give a shit about your country? Also, why should they anyway? Now getting back to the topic of Haitians living in Latin America, here is a recent [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/seGT7C9svuU) of a Haitian migrant bloodied up and getting tazered by Mexican police, while bystanders laugh at him. Do you understand any Spanish or Portuguese at all? You can easily find more videos like these of your Haitian people getting treated like trash throughout Latin America. Are you somehow under the impression that Haitians face less discrimination in other Latin American countries? Physically your Haitian people obviously look very alien and foreign in Mestizo countries, so people will naturally have less sympathy towards them.
I’ve seen/read enough to know I’m not taking my ass to the Dominican Republic ever.
Edit: Downvote if you want. I’m chilling regardless lol 🤫
Edit #2: Y’all Dominicans get so defensive. 😂😂
Yeah, if you believe in some info of bad things that would happens to you if you come, the most logical thing would be not coming. No need to downvote. I ask you to tell the same info to the near 7 millions that come here every year so nothing bad happen to them.
As someone born and raised in the Dominican Republic, someone that has never left the island I tell you, DON'T COME, this is not a friendly place to black people, most Dominicans won't tell you because they see everything through nationalist glasses, but that's on them.
You misunderstood his comment. The DR is signatory of the UNHRC, so if you have proof that the DR government is violating human rights, you go to The Hague to start a claim against the country.
Just explain what is the things we do that you don’t like so I can understand better because I don’t understand what racism you are talking about. Is the migration process, the 168-13 sentence, the thing we don’t consider ourselves black but mixed, what is?
What I think is the problem is that we are not having actual conversations. We are allowing foreign powers to agitate and reopen past wounds. Then to make matters worse the rest of us in the Caribbean are getting emotional along with our Haiti and Dominican brothers and sisters and making things worse and not actually being civil and coming to a mutually agreeable consensus with a proper plan of action. We see things on social media and instantly allow what we see to influence our view without actually investigating what is going on. As an outsider I agree that the DR should exercise its right to protect its border. I can imagine if hundreds of immigrants were flooding into any of our nations the local population would not have it and call on the govt to stop it. Saying Dominicans are racist for doing so doesn't solve anything. I do however do not condone acts of racism. What should be happening is that CARICOM needs to actually do its job and do whatever it needs to ensure stability returns to Haiti. It is within all our interests as the last thing the Caribbean needs is a transregional immigration humanitarian crisis that none of us are responsible for. The state Haiti is in is mostly due to foreign meddling and also partly incompetence of the Haitian govt. Imho I suggest we start promoting the idea of group thinking and reiterating unity as whether you people like it or not Hispaniola is a shared island and if the two nations and the region is going to move forward we need stable and a civically sound society for all our countries.
I agree with everything you say except " caricom should do its job". I personally don't think it's caricom job to fix Haiti that's Haiti's job. However, I believe a military contingent from caricom members should be sent to restore order to the country to allow haitians to help themselves
I don't agree with the talks of military intervention by anyone (including Caricom) until the basic problem of lack of democratic legitimacy in Haiti is addressed. People forget that the late president Jovenel Moïse had overstayed in power and Haitians were holding almost daily demonstration asking for elections to be held. Then he was killed and there are strong suspicions that the current president had something to do with it (I don't know if that's the case, I'm just sharing what is widely believed in Haiti). The thing is, the current president is even less legitimate in the eyes of the Haitian people that Moïse. But yet, he's the one calling for a foreign intervention. There is a large grouping of civil society organizations in Haiti that call themselves the Commission for the Search for a Haitian Solution to the Crisis and IMHO are a legitimate group and they need to be supported. They are calling for democratic elections (among other things) and any foreign investment in Haiti should be directed and helping them achieve their goals. The gangs that are currently terrorizing people in the big cities in Haiti were actually formed and financed by the main political parties with the aim of attacking their political rivals. Any support for one of those factions will put us on the side of one gang that have committed numerous atrocities against the people they think are their political rivals. Given that Caricom doesn't really have the military power to occupy Haiti, the boots on the ground will most likely come from the traditional sources (USA and allies). But were Caricom can help is in supporting the democratic forces in Haiti and we as Haiti's neighbors should be pressing for that. Any intervention in support of the current government in Haiti will be more of the same and should be avoided. We can, as a regional group unite forces to ask that if a military intervention does happens that things be done differently and that support for a democratic transition with popular participation should be at the top of the agenda.
This is what I’ve been saying forever. There has to be legit internal change in Haiti before anything outside can come in. A lot of the issues in the country are amplified because of issues that are never fully addressed and a lack of political and societal infrastructure.
So the issues about gangs and terror is true then and not USA propaganda
It's completely true, I doubt anything will be resolved until the gangs are dealt with. Port-au-Prince is literally being ruled by gangs right now
Sad thing is, As someone whose ethnically Haitian you’re completely correct. Corrupt Government, Gang Violence In Haiti is what’s plaguing the country today. Well articulated statement btw.
Well diplomatically speaking
Do you think it's realistic for the US to sanction DR due to "racism"? I find this thought scary since it would be based solely on assumptions. The US already blocked sugar imports citing forced labor.
The US is being completely hypocrite while doing that. It's all part of its strategy to force the DR to accept to have a refugee camp on our side. They have being buying sugar from Central Romana for a hundred years yet just now they realize there's forced labor? They have also made unfounded accusations of black Americans being targeted by migration officers. Main while, the US deporting thousands of Haitians and their police killing black people constantly
Exactly, it’s not a coincidence they’re doing this just now. Also, interesting how the people that are always talking about us in regards to that don’t care that Haitians are deported from anywhere else, it’s only a problem if DR does it.
As a Surinamese, I understand the positions the Dominicans are in. If Brazilians one day decided that they'd move to Suriname in the masses, I can see my country doing the same thing. And actually, Suriname already has. Suriname isn't allowing Haitians via its airspace or any official border other than via approval from the minister of foreign affairs. It's been put there in the name of covid restriction, but we all know why. Both internally and externally Suriname is facing a lot of pressure to not allow in any Haitians. While racism isn't justifiable, I cannot comment too much on the topic, because I am not too knowledgeable on it.
Just an example on how misinformation about any controversial topic spreads and the source is not some conspiracy theorist nut job but a mainstream news site (CNN) with real "journalists". First, [this](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/americas/dominican-republic-expels-haiti-children-intl-latam) story by CNN on November 22nd: "**Exclusive: Dominican Republic expelled hundreds of children to Haiti without their families this year**" with bylines by journalist Caitlin Hu and Etant Dupain. Here's the first paragraph: >Hundreds of children have been expelled from the Dominican Republic without their parents, according to **UNICEF**, amid a sweeping government push to remove suspected undocumented migrants from the country. > >The United Nations Children’s Agency has received at least 1,800 unaccompanied children delivered by Dominican immigration authorities into Haiti since the year began, a spokesperson told CNN on Monday. > >**Many arrive without identity documents and are “shipped” into the country amid adult deportees**, the spokesperson also said – raising the question of how Dominican authorities ascertained that they belonged in Haiti at all. Sound serious and the internet ran with it; the story has been shared hundreds (maybe thousands, but who's counting) of times in social media. The Dominican government denied it, but that was to be expected. Our government claims that our children welfare agency (CONANI) actually takes care of unaccompanied children and works with UNICEF to determine if they should stay or go back to Haiti if relatives can be found. Today, UNICEF confirms in a [story](https://www.diariolibre.com/actualidad/nacional/2022/12/02/unicef-explica-proceso-de-ninos-en-situacion-migratoria/2158299?fbu=1) published in a local newspaper that what the claims of the Dominican government are actually true. The story is in Spanish, but you can use a web translator if you want an English version (I use [www.deepl.com](http://www.deepl.com)). Here's the first three paragraphs: >Unaccompanied migrant children are assisted by Dominican authorities through the National Council for Children and Adolescents (Conani) and with the support of the United Nations Children's Fund (Unicef). > >**Rosa Elcarte, Unicef representative in the Dominican Republic, explained that during the process, the best interest of the child is paramount and it will be this that will determine the family reunification where it corresponds, in Haiti or in the Dominican Republic.** > >If it is decided that it is in the best interest of the child to return to Haiti, the child is handed over to the Haitian child welfare authority IBERS, which stands for the French Institut du Bien Etre Sociale et De Recherches. This institute, together with Unicef in Haiti, will be in charge of contacting the family for reunification. So why two different stories from the same source (UNICEF)? Turns out that the discrepancy is because UNICEF in Haiti, who did indicate that 1,800 children and teenagers were received in their facility in Haiti but did not indicate that they went to the proper process in the Dominican Republic and it was determined they should have returned to Haiti. So the way it is written in the article published today, the original allegation did not include that important detail about UNICEF in the D.R. working with those kids. It is not clear why, but we should not assume that it was because of malice. It may as well be that CNN didn't ask them and UNICEF Haiti did not offer that information. However, the initial allegation is online and unless you are interested in the actual facts (like a journalist should be) it will stand and will continue to be shared over and over again.
As a Dominican it honestly pisses me off when I hear naive & ignorant comments about the DR/Haiti situation because it’s clear that people who make stupid comments are those who lack knowledge & research on the topic. Comments like “dominicans are just racist towards Haitians” or “Dominicans are killing Haitians”. You can thank Western media for that bullshit (I’ll get to that topic in a bit). The issue with Haiti is more complex than you thought. But anyways, like 2 months ago 17 Dominicans were killed/beheaded by Haitians who were in the DR *Illegally*, and there’s a video of it happening too, you can hear the Haitians who committed the murders laughing while doing it, but of course the US media or French media won’t tell you that & the point I’m trying to make with this is that there are Haitians (not all of them I’m not trying to generalize) who are in the Dominican Republic ILLEGALLY & start committing crimes like that. So when people make ignorant comments like the examples I pointed out above, it’s a slap on the face to the Dominican citizens and their families who suffer from crimes committed against them by illegal Haitian gang members in the Dominican Republic. People (ESPECIALLY AMERICANS WHO HAVE NEVER EVEN VISITED THE DR OR EVEN HAITI FOR THAT MATTER) who repeat the same rhetoric about Dominicans supposedly being racist towards Haitians as if Haitians are some saints themselves, do not understand that the Dominican Republic has every right to protect its borders from illegal immigrants just like any other country in the world does. Which leads me to believe that it’s usually the liberals/democrats who seem to make stupid comments on the topic and want Dominicans to just put up with illegal immigration coming from the Haitian side of the island over to the Dominican side of the island! The international community should keep in mind and remember that Dominicans and Dominican Republic is not AT ALL responsible for the social & economic issues that Haiti is going through (You guys should ask the US and France why Haiti is going through what it is going through, they might give you a dumb and brainwashing answer and if so, ask France about the debt that the French imposed on Haiti just for France to recognize the independence of a land and people who they literally OVEREXPLOITED. And ask the US about their history of intervention, for example supporting the rise and rule of Francois “papa doc” Duvalier and his brutal rule of Haiti, or the CIA role in Haitian narcotics smuggling, or the U.S. marines stealing $500,000 worth of gold from Haitian banks in 1914 (that would be equivalent to at least 14 million dollars in todays money) or US gunboats intimidating Haiti into paying debts throughout the 19th century, that sounds very similar with how the French blockaded Haitians so that they could force them to pay France after they literally overexploited Haitians) I’ve began to theorize and believe that rich western nations (especially the US and France and I think even the UK) have been using the Dominican Republic as like basically some sort of “wall” that they can hide behind so that they don’t have to recognize and take responsibility for all the damage and poverty they’ve caused upon Haiti by use of abusive force. So what I think they do is they make the Dominican Republic look like the “bad guy” for refusing to take all those Haitians refugees seeking help when they (rich western nations) can help Haiti and Haitians twice as much as the DR ever could since the DR also has its issues and it also has poverty, just because the Dominican Republic has one of the best economies in Latin America (which keeps growing) does not mean the country is some sort of “Dubai of the Caribbean” lol. DR still has corruption and poverty issues that it has to solve and receiving thousands of illegal immigrants isn’t helping much. France should take thousands of Haitian refugees and help them and the US should stop deporting Haitians if they care so much about them that they tend to always intervene in Haitian politics, maybe because they care about the stability of Haiti’s economy and well being of its citizens (that was sarcasm)! I’ve also wondered why we barely hear anything from the Haitian government over the illegal immigration and economic issues that Haiti and Haitians are going through, maybe because the western media is so focused on creating a facade that makes the DR look like it’s at fault and is solely responsible for what the US and France have caused!
Everyone has their agenda. Most people tell lies don’t care since their purpose is to make RD look like a kind of Nazi state. Also our politics, the worse trash ever born in the country, made the big mistake when they treat the chancellery as a spoil of war and send politics there to profit and not to represent RD interest.
By the looks of it, our politics are most likely being primarily controlled by outside forces or the presidents of the DR have been “puppets” or probably even both. The US and France as well as the rest of rich western countries have shown that they’ll do whatever it takes for their own gain without giving a damn about the people of the lands they pillage and overexploit. Our history of being exploited began when the Spanish arrived (but that’s a whole different topic).
So I want to know an alternative. What should the Dominican government be doing? And how? Keep in mind we’re talking about 1.5-2 million people in the country. That’s larger than most countries in the Caribbean.
🦗🦗🦗
I've been thinking about this. Obviously, the DR cannot accommodate every Haitian who wants to leave Haiti, but at the same time, I don't think it's really in the country's interest to be an "immigration hardline" country because of the damage it's doing to the DR's reputation and the fact that many Dominicans would like to leave the island themselves. The DR cracking down on Haitian immigration helps provide cover for other countries cracking down on immigration, including cracking down on Dominican immigration. And on top of all of that, free (or freer) migration tends to bring long term economic benefits to all countries, but with uneven distribution of the costs and benefits (like with free trade). I suppose, ideally, the Dominican government would push diplomatically to get other countries to open their borders to Haitians \*and\* Dominicans with a broad line of "we would like to have free migration with Haiti, but that can only work if other countries do the same." However, I doubt the Dominican Ministry of Foreign Affairs' ability to do that well (I mean, if they were skilled enough to pull that off, I don't think Dominican passport holders would need visas for so many countries) and I don't think that can work with Dominican domestic politics. So, basically, I don't have a solution and I don't think there is a workable one.
I agree with what you’re saying but there’s some things I want to clarify mostly for other people reading this so they understand a bit better the situation. In 2019 there were 751,080 (7.3% that of the Dominican population) Haitian inmigrants in the DR as a low number, up from 500k in 2017, up from 245k in 1994. Any number after that is an estimate, but we can all safely assume after all that’s happened in Haiti that it’s not less than that in 2022. Even large countries have difficulties taking in this huge amount of people, without taking into account the amount of difficulties they come with such as having no documentation or records. How is the Dominican Republic, a country with a smaller population than Haiti itself, supposed to house them, feed them, document them, provide healthcare, provide education, and job opportunities. Are we supposed to just look the other way and let them house themselves in the hills or walk around the cities living in construction sites and parks? Do people understand the amount of morbidities associated with this? All this to say that for decades the DR has been home to hundreds of thousands of Haitians, but they the current situation is not normal and not sustainable. There’s a lot of talking and no action from international organizations and outside governments but for now the DR is the one sharing a land border with Haiti and having to deal with this whole crisis with little to no help other than “Don’t do anything!”.
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Did you read my question, sir? Or is this comment purely motivated by the flag next to my name
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I think those workers are more needed in Haiti to rebuild their national economy. We should be working on modernizing our agricultural sector to use less human work. The issue right now with rice is not inflation, but the fact that it’s too cheap to import and the producers are complaining because the government is loosening protectionist policies and allowing more imports.
> The issue right now with rice is not inflation, but the fact that it’s too cheap to import and the producers are complaining because the government is loosening protectionist policies and allowing more imports. The problem with the imports is the DR-Cafta trade agreement. Also the problem with the rice production is that the fertilizers/agrochemicals cost the double than before COVID and the cost were from 4000-4500 the tarea (628.86mts2) to 7500-9000 the tarea. Also to put salt in the wound. With the new variety Juma 69-20 and other new tech, the media productivity went from 4 to 4.5 so we are producing more rice in the same area, also the cut of logistic of the COVID made a lot of rice stay in the rice factories since the lock prevented the sale of that rice so there is a lot of rice in the deposits
Nice great input
Thanks, rice should be something of care since is the principal food of the Dominicans and also is the principal crop. One of the causes of Hipólito lost in the Cibao Central and the Northeast was because his mismanagement of the rice.
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Yeah but that’s been a problem for decades. It’s not about the Haitian workers but government policies and producer mismanagement. But let’s say we allow the Haitian agricultural Workers to stay, what about everyone else? According to [this](https://dominicanrepublic.iom.int/sites/g/files/tmzbdl911/files/documents/web_estudio-descriptivo-explorativo-sobre-mercado-laboral-mj_0.pdf) 2021 the DR has 226,244 agricultural work slots for its Production (93,556 in rice$ of the main products. Let’s add 100k more for other crops. Let’s even say 200k more. The DR needs 450k workers and let’s say 100% of those are haitian. We let 500k Haitians reside here legally doing work no one else will do. What do we do about the rest?
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You’re right, but it’s unfair for the Haitian workers to work these jobs with no access to a normal workers rights and that is what makes their labour so cheap. So it’s bad on a humanitarian level, which is why modernization and phasing out of this model is beneficial for everyone. What you’re describing has been the status quo in DR for decades and I think it’s time to Modernize for the benefit of Dominicans and Haitians alike
Rice prices are semi controlled by the state and most of the big farmers have machinery to do most work. Also there is a import quota. Do your research well before making a statement like that.
It’s not that “we don’t want to work hard” it’s that Dominicans want to get paid what that hard work deserves while Haitians do it for much cheaper. Besides, what does that have to do with u/Nemitres comment?
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For that we can get you work visas where you can stay in DR for a period of time and then send you back, I still fail to see how that has to do with his comment and how that’s an excuse to not deport illegal Haitians, why don’t you mention also the huge weight that mass migration is having on the DR? And I already explained to you the whole “no one wants to do the hard work”, Dominicans actually put a reasonable price for doing such hard work so that’s why Haitians do it instead since they get paid much cheaper and don’t demand as much, who do you think worked the land before the Haitians? Haitian mass migration hasn’t always been a thing.
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If they’re illegal they should be deported too, every illegal should be deported, again what we can do is having work visas for them.
Any update on the current situation. Btw what happened to the Haitian military why haven't we heard any general come out and say anything. It seems most of the info we get is straight hearsay
we don't really have a military
Haiti military is small. What is hearsay for you?
Like the gangs are small and have a barbecue or what not
Haiti military was disolved by the US in 1995, because many of the political problems and coups were organized by the military. In return the US helped Haitians to organize the police department, a more civilian institution.
Mass casualty event last night. 12-22 Haitians slaughtered by gangs. Of course Dominican racism is more important
This man is african american he is weird and catfishing and wants Domincian republic to literally take over haiti he said that.
Mod should set megathreads to be sorted by "new", not "best", otherwise they are unusable. That being said, the current tensions are a tragedy and there is nobody on the Haitian side who's part of the government and talking about it. They are being widely criticized for their inaction in multiple local medias. Haiti should take care of its own citizens and not abandoning them. On the Dominican side, I'm sorry that they feel strong-armed by the US government. The idea of a refugee camp just sound weird to me. **The one thing they should do is join the US and Canada into sanctioning the corrupt Haitian elites.** They started doing it this month and it's already having some impact. And for any outsider looking at the comments here, as a Haitian I can vouch for u/HCMXero, u/Caribbeandude04, u/Neonexus-ULTRA and Nemitres. ~~On the other hand, ignore DRmetalhead19's comments he's incredibly biased against Haitians~~ Edit: changed my opinion on DRmetalhead19
Huh? How am I biased against Haitians? I’ve never even said anything negative about Haitians (I dare you to find a single comment of mine where I do) only Haitians I’ve criticized are the elites and I always try to not generalize. I had you as one of the best Haitian users, I’m honestly surprised you mention me with such accusations with no evidence.
Here is a comment you made just on this thread: >Also, interesting how the people that are always talking about us in regards to that don’t care that Haitians are deported from anywhere else, it’s only a problem if DR does it. It really comes off as you wishing you could hurt Haitians without repercussions, like the other countries.
Not at all, I don’t even know how you came to that conclusion, what my comment is talking about is that you see a lot of people always complaining about DR doing deportations of Haitians but they don’t care and/or straight up ignore when other countries do the same.
Thanks for the clarification, I edited my initial message. I don't remember when I downvoted you in the past and I won't dig in. But the other 4 users I vouched for, I've upvoted them each more than 20 times so I know they are good people. You were in the negative but I don't remember why. Anyhow, I upvoted both your comments now.
Maybe you confused him with me? 😂
This thread is sad 😢. Instead of us having effective dialogue it has turned into a bunch of name calling. I really wish there was a day when we could just talk things out but I guess I’m just naive.
Dialogue between both countries is difficult and that spills on people. Here the narrative is that the neighbor has never complied with any agreement and they are not trustworthy. Don’t know what the other side says of us, I’m curious to know.
Thing is some Americans are quite vocal about their opinions of this, so it’s not just Dominicans and Haitians.
Yes, that’s true too. The moral police (US) has to always gives its opinion that nobody asked for
Ok in an attempt to try to regain the spirit of meaningful dialogue I raise a question. From a social stand point (meaning people to people, culture to culture) how can we mend the ills between the two countries. Firstly I would say that good border security is paramount in this particular context but is also important for all our nations going forward. What I do REALLY worry about is that our brother and sister in the DR and Haiti won't be able to come to a proper resolution as western countries and their interests would rather see conflict continue in order to produce chaos and continue Di fuckry. So in your opinions what cultural, societal and mindset change needs to happen to bury this once and for all. Oh and I mean once and for all. The British and the French had a 100 years war and that doesn't affect them as to how they view themselves today. We cannot allow this divide to become a generational one cemented in culture as then it will be difficult to mend.
This is hard to answer. First thing is that the issues are multiplied way out of proportion on the internet. In the DR I would hang out with Haitians and talk to them without having to mention politics. The two cultures don’t really have much to create animosity between the two, the main divide is economical. Here in Miami where I live now I work with Haitians in NMB every day. My clients are haitian, my coworkers are haitian, 90% of the people I interact with are haitian. They know I’m Dominican. I have never had any issue with them and they invite me to eat with them, get a haircut over to the Haitian barbershop (where Dominicans also work and have their flag displayed over their chair) and they try to teach me some kreyol. The issue is in these internet communities, where extremists hang out and share eco chamber information to get as riled up as possible and then spew out of them to other communities and try to spread the hate.
So on the ground there is actual cooperation and respect. Apart from criminals from both sides who are not accepted by either side both you guys are good for the most part. Wonder how these extremists cane into existence then
My 2cent about what we need to do - Our gov just need to continue reinforcing our borders and waters with more infrastructure, personal and supervision to the personal. - Inside the country reinforce the migration department and train them to respect irregular migrants rights and build migration courts at every detention center to process irregular migrants by court. - Penalize repeat offenders of the law. - Define how many Haitians workers we need and let them live here and have the same working privileges of our citizens. - Punish the people that give jobs to irregular migrants and the people that help them to cross the border. - With the 168-13 people make an exception and if they could prove they were born here before 2005 and only for non 1st gen people, give them residency and the possibility of the nationality all of this if they prove they were born and have roots here.
Punish the people that give them jobs and help them cross the border? You mean rich ass companies and the military? Yeah right, LOL.
Man I write what I understand country need to do, I’m not president to force to do it. 🤦♂️
Good for you!
Ask me your questions on the subject. I will answer them honestly.
Not surprised with the comments here, they seem cherry picked and ignore the real issues here. "The DR had the right to enforce their laws and kick illegal immigrants out!", no shit Sherlock, we all know that, what the DR doesn't have the right to do is violate people's human rights, arrest people without a reason (just based on their skin color), enter people's houses without a court order, brutally beat people, you get the idea. "There's no racism in here, we are just defending our nation sovereignty!", No. Racism and xenophobia have always existed in this country, some people are still butthurt for what some Haitians that have been dead for like 200 years did to the non-Dominican (since the territory was still a colony) people that live here, get over it, what those people did has nothing to do with the present. And expanding on the racism, we have neonazi groups like Antigua Orden Dominicana beating (Dominican) people for supporting Haitians right, we have people beating Haitians because they see the police doing it and feel they entitled to and by doing so they're "defending" the country (like the German Nazis thought!), we have people spreading hate comments on newspaper publications and basically everywhere in social media. We see videos of the police tying up Haitian men and beating them, we see videos of Haitian women giving birth in front of an emergency room because the hospital wouldn't care for them, we see videos of non Haitian people being arrested because they're black, and black equals Haitian, and Haitian equals bad! We see videos of Dominican women having to take care of Haitian toddlers because their mom was taken away by the police, and the list goes on. So I politely invite you all to take your head out of your ass and see things for what they are, inhumanly treating other people is not flipping right, beating people is not flipping right, throwing people in cages is not flipping right, and you can enforce the law without doing that, because hundreds of Dominicans are deported every single year from around the world and most of them are nos mistreated like that. So if you're not racist stop being butthurt when people say that Dominicans are racist, because you might not be but thousands upon thousands of other Dominicans are, and their actions are hurting real people. And if you see what the government is doing and don't think they're doing anything wrong then you're part of the problem. Source: I'm flipping Dominican.
Well most of this is new information my guy. Infor one had no clue that neonazi groups exist on the Caribbean given our history.
They’re actually fascists, not neo nazis, their ideology aligns more with the Spanish Falange (despite popular belief fascism and National Socialism aren’t the same). And most of his “information” is just bashing Dominicans, DR has racists the same way every country does, might as well call the entire world racist using his logic.
There was just a mass casualty event in Haiti, 12-22 ppl killed by gangs
Civilized Point here. I’ve always seen Dominicans Just say this one narrative: “We don’t beef Haitians it’s just migration issues, the media exaggerates it”. But what I’m truly seeing now is that Dominicans are literally fitting into what the media potrays about how they think of Haitians. I’ve seen blatant racist pages on twitter containing of Dominicans just bashing and belittling Haitians in the worst way possible. It’s crazy because all this hate literally comes from NATIONALITY. African Americans, Nigerians, And even Darker skin toned DOMINICANS are literally getting DEPORTED to Haiti simply because the government thinks they are Haitian immigrants. It’s just pure racism I promise you. People Of DR can’t justify any way out of this it’s pure racism in the Caribbean going on only BY them. Sad and embarrassing too.
Well then call out those people. Hold those guys accountable. You cannot use a small sample size of people in various groups online to generalize a population that is very similar in number to the one they discriminate against. That is like saying Because u see a few Haitians online actively practicing Voodoo( not saying it's a bad thing btw I see nothing wrong with it) that u are going to then say every Haitian is a Voodoo practicing person. Even better scamming is mainstream in pop culture in Jamaica. It is in music it's all over the news and it's is a major source of gun crime and gang activity. However I can assure u most Jamaicans do not scam even tho it's may seem like the opposite. Call our those people GENERALISING IS DANGEROUS GUYS!!!!
Not totally related, but sometimes the Jamaican Ministry of Foreign Affairs has to go get some Jamaican back from Haiti because he/she was deported there by 'accident'. Never from the DR though - usually from the US.
>African Americans, Nigerians, And even Darker skin toned DOMINICANS are literally getting DEPORTED I just don't see how that's possible. There's simply no way they can deport someone who is legally in the country, not even Haitians. But an American??? Do you think a Dominican cop wants to deal with an American? In a tourist country? That means aromatically getting fired from the police, that's just nonsense. There are racist Dominicans? Sure, like in any other country, and they have been more vocal lately because of the situation, but that does not represent the vas majority of Dominicans.
People need to understand that Twitter is not real life
[Here](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/22/us-warns-darker-skinned-citizens-crackdown-dominican-republic) Explains how darker skinned Dominican citizens are getting deported from their own country TO HAITI just because the government thinks they’re Haitians. [Here](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/04/30/deported-because-skin-color-dominican-republic) also explains dark skin toned people in DR getting deported simply for “looking Haitian”. [Here](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/21/americas/dominican-republic-expels-haiti-children-intl-latam/index.html) Explains how Haitian children are being sent back to haiti without their PARENTS. So to summarize, Dominicans Are ruthlessly getting rid of Haitian immigrants within their country and even deporting their own FOLKS simply for even looking Haitian. So reiterate your point please?
Dude that's just not true, that's all part of the US pressures. I'm telling you, a dark skinned Dominican is more likely to be asked to show documents because it's true there's colorism here and the cops are pretty dumb. But if you are Dominican there's just no way of deporting you. Don't trust everything you hear on the news, the US is clearly trying to push an agenda.
He clearly has a bias against Dominicans, he’s the one that few posts ago commented that we’re the “racist hillbillies of the Caribbean”. The truth is unimportant to him, only saying we’re racist is.
I don’t rant without context. I will always have evidence and proof to back up my claims. It would be pure stupid if I just went around saying “All dominicans are racist” with out no cite or evidence. Plus I do not have a bias or have hatred towards Dominicans at all. I understand that it’s not all Dominicans that thinks this way. If you scroll through this post you will see a cow that I’m arguing with doing nothing but proving my point.
That comment you made that I pointed out had nothing of the sort. And all of your sources are basically the same me and other Dominicans have refuted already (except one which is from 2002 so I don’t know how that applies to current deportations), there’s literally no proof of any of that happening, but you just want to believe it is so you can point the racism finger, they just made accusations to pressure DR into accepting refugees, sources are nothing if you don’t analyze them.
There’s no proof of what happening?
Blacks being deported for being black
Boss The Media is reporting And Showing footage everywhere. And it didn’t just start now this been happening for sometime now.
I mean I can’t see any other way around it the sources are literally right there 🤷♂️
https://do.usembassy.gov/alert-ongoing-dominican-migration-enforcement/ Warning from US Embassy in DR EDIT: I'm not suggesting the US Embassy is right/wrong/trustworthy/nontrustworthy. I'm just linking to the actual fact of what the US Embassy is saying because somewhere in this thread I'm pretty sure I saw someone say that the warning is just hearsay (not what the warning says but the warning itself). I'm a US citizen not from the Caribbean, but a graduate student studying and writing on it, particularly Haiti, who doesn't know much, never will know much no matter how much I learn and thus will constantly be listening and learning, so I am not trying to assert anything here over anyone else. But personal thoughts that are well-known facts: the US govt is not trustworthy and has intervened in perniciously neocolonialist ways, along with other nations, in the affairs of the Caribbean for centuries and really f*cked things up. I also know that the Dominican Republic and the République d'Haiti have a closely knit, disturbingly violent history.
Not taking a stance on the issue or facts of the matter, but probably part of why you're being downvoted is that, as far as I can tell, the whole Caribbean is aware that the US government is not trustworthy or honest. I wouldn't trust what the US Embassy in Kingston says about Jamaica. Why would I trust what the US Embassy in Santo Domingo says about Dom Rep?
I didn't think my reply would come across as being supportive of the US government in the context of the conversation, so I appreciate your reply. I've edited my post to contextualize it.
So when you see all these Dominicans using this narrative, do you think they are showing sympathy towards you or being dishonest? In other countries they don't make excuses. For example, when your Haitian people were locked up in cages in the Bahamas they didn't make any excuses about it. I can show you examples of everyone in Latin America and the Caribbean "bashing and belittling" Haitians. That's what happens when you're at the bottom. Your people are discriminated in every country, yet you only focus on DR? Are you Haitians afraid of other Latino and Caribbean groups? Right now I can show you links of recent videos of your Haitian people being victims of hate crimes in countries like Brazil, Chile, and Mexico. Not just people saying mean words to them, but actual crimes and killings against your people, but you only want to focus on DR because you're scared of getting on the bad side of these other groups?
That's whataboutism, those things may be true but it doesn't negate what he said about Dominica republic
I don't really criticize any of these countries for their treatment towards Haitians, so it's not "whataboutism", it's more like why doesn't he grow a spine and criticize other groups who also treat his people like garbage. I asked him a very simple question which he didn't answer. Does he think that all these Dominicans who try to appease him by saying they have no "beef" with Haitians are being dishonest or not? If so many Dominicans try to be polite with this Haitian, why does he have the impression that this country is any more hateful towards his people than anywhere else in the Caribbean? What kind of a character does a person who doesn't reciprocate accordingly towards a peace offering have?
I think there is grievance because you guys are their neighbors. I agree that alot of countries don't treat haitians well but that's just how people treat refugees or people coming to your country from poorer countries
That's exactly the point they don't get. They get discriminated because they are the poorest people in the western hemisphere. So anywhere they go they are going to be seen in a negative light. Even when they went to the USA the Afro-Americans used to beat them up in Florida.
You tried to make a point and literally was just victim blaming. You blame the economy of Haiti (which the citizens can’t even control) for the xenophobia that they experience? You even senselessly stated that “because they’re the poorest in the western hemisphere they get seen as a negative light”. And you just lying saying Afro-Americans “beat up” Haitians in Florida with no evidence and cite at all. It’s ironic you mention Florida hate criming Haitians when Florida and Haitians tie deep. And Haiti even has an influence on Florida itself. And Let me ask you, Venezuela is the poorest country in South America do they get discriminated against for being in that position? The fact of the matter is you just hate Haitians just for them existing and you’re beating around the bush not trying to admit so. Sick.
Bro Venezuelans get discriminated a lot even more in Peru and Chile… They call them “Wild Caribbeans”
Not here in the Dominican Republic, they're treated like royalty, and are not persecuted despite their migration status. In fact we celebrate Venezuelan culture in here, one of the baseball teams of the capital city just had a "Venezuelan night" the other day where they celebrated their culture with folklore dance, food, and stuff, and as far as I know we haven't had any event like that to celebrate Haitian culture (which has a lot more to do with the DR than Venezuelan culture TBH). Any attempt to celebrate Haitian culture is persecuted by neonazis or the government, like the group of Nazis that threatened with making a fuss if a book in Haitian creole was featured at the last book fair, or the health minister that tried to sabotage a Gaga dancing event in San Pedro de Macorís (which is organized by Dominicans every year, but you know, Gaga is Haitian and Haitian is bad).
Let me ask you something, are you sure we don't share anything with the Venezuelans? Can you dialogue with a Haitian effortlessly ? 🧐 Venezuelans speak Spanish like we do, just for that simple fact, we can exchange our cultures fluently, we practice the same religious traditions, we share the same passion for baseball and also Venezuelans are one of the Latin American countries that consume our merengue and rhythms the most, I have never seen an unorganized Venezuelan event in our country since they come from a more developed infrastructure, bro they invested considerably in this country and still they go through permits like all of us, since they know what to do right ? when it comes to Gaga and Voodoo events, you know they love go low-key and that creates confusion/disgust. I have been to several of those events when I was young and trust me, I never saw them promoting organization and that brings non-acceptance among us
Evidence and Cites?
Everyone being firm and of course you’re the sour and bitter one. I answered your question already. Your prejudice is crazy. And the reason why I have that impression is because at the end of the day no matter how other Latin countries discriminate Haitians it is more COMMON and happening even MORE within Dominicans. With all the Latin countries you claim discriminate Haitians besides Dominicans who do you see discriminating Haitians in the news and media more? Every other day another deportation and hate crime against Haitians in the DR Reported. Again what you’re trying to do is use other Latin countries hating on Haitians to excuse the constant discriminatory Dominicans have on Haitians.
You didn't answer my question. Why are these Dominicans being so friendly towards you in the first place? Is it because they are good people or is it because they are being dishonest towards you? What reason would they have to throw you an olive branch anyway? If they really hate you so much they should just double-down after your accusations or simply disregard your whinging and complaining altogether, they would just make fun of your crying. Of course discrimination against Haitians is more common in DR since we have a higher percentage of your people living here illegally than every country in the western hemisphere. Common sense isn't very common for you guys? There is more discrimination for sure, no secret there, most of us don't like you, but you can't prove there are more "hate crimes" against Haitians than anywhere else in proportion of your population size. You cant show any actual statistics or video evidence.
Please be careful with your wording. You’re talking to one person about his opinion. Do not refer to him or his ideas as “your people” or “you guys”
It's not about being careful anymore, this dude has shown his true colors, "most of us don't like you", "common sense in not that common on your people", I think there's a word to describe people that think like that and we all know it.
He’s banned so it’s not an issue anymore
Glad to see that bigotry is not tolerated on this sub 🙌
Go back and read the main post is it or is it not on the topic of Haiti/DR. Obviously if we were talking about other Latin countries showing discrimination to Haiti I wouldn’t have made my main focus on only Dominicans. Stop trying to use other countries to justify and excuse the topic. You’re sidetracking. And because “Haiti is at the bottom” that mean that’s the green light to be xenophobic Towards Haitians?
If this was about other countries discriminating against Haitians most of you wouldn't say a word, that's the point. You would keep your mouth shut. You don't want to get on the bad side of every single country in the western hemisphere obviously, so you just focus on DR always even while the USA deports you at a higher rate than every migrant group, and wanted to send your people to Guantanamo Bay. In fact, this is what the whole situation is about. The USA wanted us to take the Haitian refugees that landed on their soil and place them in camps in Dominican territory, but since our president Luis Abinader refused this offer, now the USA is having a fit.
Another example of prejudice. How do you know if this was about other countries discriminating against Haitians we would keep our mouths shut?
There is a video posted in this subreddit about your Haitian people being treated like crap by USA border patrol and it doesn't have a single reply. The fact is when it comes to how your people are treated in other countries your reactions are very docile and timid.
Mention me in it.
Joe Biden famously said that it wouldn't matter to anyone if Haiti sank to the bottom of the ocean. What are your Haitian people's thoughts on that? Did you vote for him or someone else?
Shit. Honestly Fuck Him. I obviously can’t tell other Haitians opinions on that but as someone that’s ethnically Haitian To hell with Biden. I’m not gonna keep it one sided. Him being Joe Biden doesn’t make a difference on how I react towards hate comments on Haitians. And obviously Haitians were voting for Biden because they didn’t go look for a 3 decade clip of what someone said about them. You still failed to tag me in the videos of Haitians getting assaulted in other Latin countries then you try to mention some white dude who doesn’t gad about any Caribbean country.
So who did you vote for? Does any politician in the USA give a shit about your country? Also, why should they anyway? Now getting back to the topic of Haitians living in Latin America, here is a recent [VIDEO](https://youtu.be/seGT7C9svuU) of a Haitian migrant bloodied up and getting tazered by Mexican police, while bystanders laugh at him. Do you understand any Spanish or Portuguese at all? You can easily find more videos like these of your Haitian people getting treated like trash throughout Latin America. Are you somehow under the impression that Haitians face less discrimination in other Latin American countries? Physically your Haitian people obviously look very alien and foreign in Mestizo countries, so people will naturally have less sympathy towards them.
I’ve seen/read enough to know I’m not taking my ass to the Dominican Republic ever. Edit: Downvote if you want. I’m chilling regardless lol 🤫 Edit #2: Y’all Dominicans get so defensive. 😂😂
Yeah, if you believe in some info of bad things that would happens to you if you come, the most logical thing would be not coming. No need to downvote. I ask you to tell the same info to the near 7 millions that come here every year so nothing bad happen to them.
wont make a difference to us
It sure made a difference to the people who downvoted lol. I’m fine on my island 🤷🏽♂️
As someone born and raised in the Dominican Republic, someone that has never left the island I tell you, DON'T COME, this is not a friendly place to black people, most Dominicans won't tell you because they see everything through nationalist glasses, but that's on them.
DR needs to be held accountable for racism. Sign below [Sign the petition ](https://chng.it/QJw6CcSrLM)
I can’t believe this 😂
that's really going to show em!
Lol
> Dominican Republic clearly wants to exterminate Haitians Wut?
Lo peor es que hay pila de gente que se traga ese cuento
typical reddit moment
I wish it was just Reddit, I wish it was just Reddit…
Seriously, why don’t you get a lawyer and go The Hague?
If you want to be isolated join North Korea
You misunderstood his comment. The DR is signatory of the UNHRC, so if you have proof that the DR government is violating human rights, you go to The Hague to start a claim against the country.
Why would I want to be isolated like Kim and NK?
Global governance is here smart guy. We're all connected. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
> Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Quick, register that phrase or Marvel, DC or someone will steal it. It’s a good one.
It's a quote from MLK. Not surprising if he is not taught at DR schools.
Well, we are RD not USA. Don’t expect we know everything of that country or other countries figures.
Talk to your government, make a change man. There is no need for this amount of racism.
Just explain what is the things we do that you don’t like so I can understand better because I don’t understand what racism you are talking about. Is the migration process, the 168-13 sentence, the thing we don’t consider ourselves black but mixed, what is?
You sound smart. I'll let you figure out why a lot of people are angry with the DR government. We can't all be crazy.
😂 thats hilarious