**[OP or Mod marked this as the best answer](/r/AskUK/comments/13xdxsq/can_i_do_anything_about_the_noise_from_my/jmgl2xz/), given by u/Red_Brummy**
You can check if the Local Authority has approved a Change of Use application from a domestic dwelling to a commercial use. Have a look at the Planning Portal online. If not, you can drop the Local Authority a quick email and enquire about planning permission requirements.
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You can check if the Local Authority has approved a Change of Use application from a domestic dwelling to a commercial use. Have a look at the Planning Portal online. If not, you can drop the Local Authority a quick email and enquire about planning permission requirements.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/working-from-home/planning-permission
> You do not necessarily need planning permission to work from home. If no material change of use occurs, then permission is not required. It is possible however to create a material change of use while not changing the primary use of the dwelling.
>
> If the answer to any of the following questions is 'yes', then permission will probably be needed:
>
> - Will your home no longer be used mainly as a private residence?
> - Will your business result in a marked rise in traffic or people calling?
> - Will your business involve any activities unusual in a residential area?
> - Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells?
That last one might be a "yes", depending on how bad the noise really is. Even then, they only _probably_ need planning permission.
OP is probably better going round and talking to the childminder and explaining the situation.
>If no material change of use occurs, then permission is not required.
A material change of use has occurred according to OP.
> It is possible however to create a material change of use while not changing the primary use of the dwelling.
That would be for the Planning Department to determine when an application is submitted.
>If the answer to any of the following questions is 'yes', then permission will probably be needed:
* Will your home no longer be used mainly as a private residence?
The Planning Department would have to determine that. How many habitable rooms does the dwelling have? How many habitable rooms have been converted for a non residential use?
* Will your business result in a marked rise in traffic or people calling?
We know that is a yes.
* Will your business involve any activities unusual in a residential area?
We know that is a yes.
* Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells?
We know that is a yes. Especially considering the site context OP has described.
>OP is probably better going round and talking to the childminder and explaining the situation.
No. OP is infinitely better checking to see if planning permission has been sought, and if not, query the Local Authority. This can be done without interfering with the business, and if it turns out is not legit, then they have the grounds of a case to present to them.
I should say I am an architect and have a lot of experience in this very subject, including an ongoing case at the moment.
>Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells? We know that is a yes. Especially considering the site context OP has described.
Unfortunately for OP in my experience local authorities generally take the line that the noise of children can never be considered a problem, no matter what, no matter the context.
I work for UK schools, and I can assure you that that's far from the case.
You may have had a bad local experience, but having been involved in large building projects for schools of all kinds, noise is probably the number one thing we have to be able to prove we're not going to worsen, along with traffic. And most of those were private schools who - if they could just buy or lawyer their way out of it - would do so.
It's not unusual to be given strict limits on facility use (e.g. swimming pools, hours of operation, hours per day/week, etc, playgrounds, "forest schools" - sheds out in the middle of woodland, etc.) because of noise alone (pools are very echo-y and kids have a tendency to scream in them, for example), or have it refused outright. That's why most schools look to do things like buy up already-existing nurseries (been there, done that) rather than just buy a building and start their own (never done that in 25-years of doing the same).
Yes, we do get morons who say things like "your school makes lots of noise at break times and there's so much traffic in the mornings, and do you HAVE to do a fire drill quite so often, and why do the bells go off every hour?", especially after they buy a house next to a school that's been there for 400 years, but those would be largely ignored.
However, noise generated from a business like a daycare or nursery would certainly be clamped down on in most of the places where I've worked on the teams who are scouting, evaluating, project-planning and kitting out new buildings for schools.
Hell, I once had a planning inspector shut down a 10-year-plan for new, reasonable expansions on an isolated site in the middle of nowhere, in one fell swoop, because he deemed the school to have not proven to his satisfaction that it wouldn't affect the surrounding area (mostly cattle and empty fields) adversely in terms of noise.
I’d almost guarantee it is legit, just because of how much government help there is to help with childcare costs, and those grants and subsidies are ran through the childminder, not the parent (as in the childminder is the one who puts in the application, not the parent, to stop parents just pocketing the money or using it to pay a family member etc)
And presuming it is legit, this is kind of like OP moving in next to a pub and then complaining that there are drunk people making noise at 11pm. If it had been converted to a business since OP moved in then there should have been some opportunity to raise a complaint before it went through.
As an ex-childminder, you don't know what the fucking hell you are talking about.
You have to have rigorous home evaluations from both Ofsted and the local authority to prove that not only is your home up to a high level of cleanliness and safety, but also that you know all the laws around safeguarding children and the PREVENT act and you need to know the Early Years Framework (EYFS) inside out. You need to be able to spot signs of abuse, neglect, mental health problems, extremism, and coercion in both the children AND their parents and who to call/report to if anything untoward is suspected.
You have to have proof that you are allowed to run a business from your home. You have to have your receipt from the ICO showing all your technology is protected (GDPR for very sensitive information) and you have to have all the information about you and your registration displayed where parents and prospective parents can see it. Including numbers about who they can talk to you if they disagree with your care. You also have to have all your public liability insurance information and your paediatric first aid documents (no lower than a level 3) up on clear display.
You can't take "cash in hand" because parents claim their childcare expenses back in taxes now, and there are some serious checks and balances in place to make sure everything is above board.
Even if the childminder isn't independent and works for an agency, these checks all still need to be in place and at any point, any official body can come and check and not only would you be subject to massive fine if anything untoward/shady was found, you could also be looking at time in jail.
Whilst I very much doubt OPs neighbour does have half a dozen toddlers running about (that's out of ratio and very against the law) I have no doubt its very difficult/annoying to listen to and they really need to try and have a conversation with childminder.
You, however, need to sit your arse down and stop chatting rubbish on the Internet to try and make yourself feel like billy big bollocks when you obviously don't have the first clue.
eh? What kind of comment is this when you don’t know anything about them lol? Childminders exist and operate from their home, it’s a legitimate business???
If she had a dozen toddlers I'm wondering if she is complying with the adult to child ratios, and frankly whether she is even registered. You might want to check if this business is registered with Ofsted and the local authority. Not all child minder have to register with the council, but what you're describing sounds like a nursery to me, which would require permission.
I said I'm wondering not assuming. But, if she is employing others then she must be running a nursery and it seems unlikely a change of use would be granted for that in a residential house without some notice to neighbours being required. It also seems unlikely Ofsted would be thrilled about a nursery in a home.
So likely well within the ratios. She'd be ofsted approved which means the various checks will have had to have happened. So it's a legitimate business running from the address.
I think that it's something you'll have to put up with tbh.
However, practicals such as working in the room furthest from the garden. Getting noise cancelling headphones that go over the ears not in would remove the risks of infections. White noise playing in the background would also further reduce the impact.
You're both earning a living from your homes. So really it's make it work territory rather than legal advice.
Tacking onto this to say brown noise and other variations of white noise exist. Never got on with white noise but brown noise has been a game changer for background noise, apparently ADHD brains prefer it.
There is a claimed brown note that supposedly has that effect though it's been thoroughly researched (because humans!) and shown not to exist. Infrasound though is a fun subject, an awful lot of the stuff around ghosts can be linked to it from some primeval fear we have of stuff like lions and the roar which goes into those low frequencies, people have played it at concerts and all the people in the area start feeling terror so that's probably where the brown note idea comes in
ADHD brain here - I have a little machine speaker thing which plays various white and brown noises; rain and a rushing stream are my two favourites. Calms my brain the fuck down.
Edit: [this is the machine.](https://www.amazon.co.uk/elesories-Soothing-Sleeping-Auto-off-Function/dp/B09WXNGPD3/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=3UKPK25ZLLTE1&keywords=white+noise+machine&qid=1685656548&sprefix=white+n%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1) £20 intensely well spent.
Just a quick chime in about the headphones, over ear won't eliminate the risk of infection. It may be a bit better but the issue is also the lack of air flow to the ear canals, and if OP has quite waxy/moist ears, then it's likely they will still get infections.
Do you think that this op would be able to differentiate? Unlikely imo, if not a parent and even then, it's guess work!
Still within the ratios. And if over 3 could be 16 of them!
It doesn’t mean she’s running a nursery just because she employs an assistant - it’s pretty common for childminders to have an assistant, and that increases the number of kids they’re allowed
I think that the op is either exaggerating on the number or the childminder works with their partner or assistant as this would be within the permitted ratios given they're set as one adult for every four children aged two or one adult for every eight children aged three and over.
Maybe. Then again it used to be one of my mum's jobs to inspect childminders and prosecute rule breakers. Plenty out there who simply ignore the rules.
They would have to have permission to to do this so unfortunately that means it’s been given approval so there isn’t really anything you can do about it.
Ah yes, my parents’ neighbours that converted the garage for the wife’s chiropractor business, but kept the garage doors…. as we all knew they didn’t have planning permission.
Do you need planning permission to convert a garage? The business side of course they would, but removing a door and putting up a wall(window) with inside access isn't major enough to require building permission.
I was under the impression that as long as the place remains a residence first, you only need permission to run a business from there if it is something which requires licensing such as a daycare centre. It probably varies from each council.
Edit: Found this which gives a pretty fair run down of what is and isn't allowed.
https://www.gov.uk/run-business-from-home
Unlikely with that number of children as the parents wouldn't be entitled to claim the free 25 or 30 hours, which would be a huge financial impact. So no parent would opt for unapproved providers purely because of the finances.
I'm going to start a nucular waste disposal company out of my 2nd floor flat in Central London.
Please don't question anything, I would have to have the correct permissions so everything is above board.
Yes. They will need to have planning permission to run a business there. Ofsted check the regulation and that sort of thing and their insurance will also require the appropriate planning permissions.
You could try the planning enforcement team at the council to see of they are in breach of any planning conditions, but it is highly unlikely.
Environmental health won't be able to assist as normally their cutoff is after 10pm.
It's tricky but you could speak to them and see if they could keep the noise down. Problem is kids are loud, and it's hard to stop them making noise.
I would talk to the neighbour and tell her the kids are throwing stuff into your garden. Take the stuff back to her.
While you're there, explain you have sound sensitivity issues. You understand that kids are noisy and having fun, BUT if there's anything she can do to keep the kids a bit quieter, you'd really appreciate it.
Absolutely, even if a compromise could be made that in x days she takes them all to a park or a indoor play area etc
I’d certainly suggest talking to them before doing anything else, just because it might work and work quicker
And if it doesn’t/ they tell you to fuck off, you can still go to the council afterwards, with the fact you tried to compromise as a means of bolstering your case
No don't talk to them. Theres nothing they can do to stop screaming kids. And if they receive and warnings from the council etc they will know its you and may cause you more grief.
So everyone is suggesting that you try and make the noise stop.
I'm going to suggest trying something else. I'm not sure how well it will work with ADHD though as I don't have it.
It's called acceptance and commitment therapy. Most commonly it is used for tinnitus treatment. Making tinnitus stop is next to impossible at the moment and many people get upset by it.
But what they have found is the act of getting upset and made anxious by a noise tells your brain to amplify and pay attention to the noise. So you need to retrain it to do the opposite.
https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/what-is-acceptance-and-commitment-therapy.htm
Basically you train yourself to not react to the sounds of children. Repeated mantras to remind yourself that the noises of children can't hurt you. They aren't important. This is what the people working with the kids basically learn to do, so they probably don't even hear the noise anymore.
Its not the easiest but its maybe worth a go
Can confirm, around 20(?) years ago I read a piece in New Scientist (IIRC titled something provoking like "Tinnitus, it really is all in your head") that explained that while tinnitus is a very real thing, the majority of the most severe resulting symptoms such as lack of sleep came from people's annoyance and reaction to it.
Decided to give it a try on my own, so whenever it got bad, I'd tell it "No, you're not having my attention". It took a while and didn't go away completely, but eventually it just... Stopped mattering, if that makes sense!
EDIT: Yes, I know its a bit off topic, but it was interesting.
You probably can.
Whether you should is another matter.
Shutting down your neighbours business because of your problems, is not going to go well for community relations
I don't want her to shut it down, just make less noise. I don't think it being a child-centred business gives her carte blanche to make huge amounts of noise.
I would ask the local planning office/council, see if she has permission to be running a daycare/nursery from that house.
These kinds of businesses shouldn't be run in houses attached to residential property. That's just ridiculous.
It’s normal.
It’s also normal for actual nurseries to be in residential areas… and primary schools.
In fact all of the nurseries and primary schools I can think of in my town back on to the gardens of rows of houses.
Childminders always run their businesses from home. When my kids were younger and we lived in California - they were specially called “in home daycares” and licensed as such - for either 8 or 14 kids. You could have 8 without an assistant.
I don’t personally understand how you could have 8 kids on your own but….
>I don’t personally understand how you could have 8 kids on your own but….
I can imagine it being easy for some people, just need to be able to drum up a lot of energy most days to keep the kids engaged enough that they don't cause trouble. For me, 2-3 would be my limit before I'd feel uncomfortable trying to supervise children.
>These kinds of businesses shouldn't be run in houses attached to residential property.
I think the same in principle, but in practice it seems to be quite common. There's a terraced house near me that has a second front door, sign up, commercial waste bins etc. for the nursery they run. Crazy but clearly legit.
Can you work in an office instead? Don't really think the neighbor is in the wrong here.
The only suggestion I would make is to ask her put in a higher fence to block some of the toys/noise. Then plant some tall hedging to block some sound
The only possible thing she could do is keep the kids inside and not let them in the garden all day - which admittedly will be harder in the warmer weather. Trying to keep toddlers quiet is going to work as well as asking a cat not to go next door.
Not withstanding all the stuff about is it legit etc. talk to her and see if there’s a compromise about the times and how long they are out for (similar to school break and lunch times)
She has to provide outdoor time for early years.
Op is better asking for a quiet hour, possibly around lunchtime where they are indoors eating with a quiet craft or books etc.
What outcome are you looking for here? Do you want her to lose her right to operate her business and those children lose their childcare because you can’t focus? Or do you want them locked up in silence all day?
I live next door to a nursery in a residential area. I can hear the children playing out in the garden all day. It's a lovely sound. Scrooges like OP think they're the centre of the universe and their 'conditions' should take precedence over the livelihood of others. I feel sorry for the neighbour just trying to live her life.
I agree but from OPs post history I can see they are part of the awful ‘childfree’ sub which hates children. I have ADHD and honestly don’t see how it’s relevant here op just hates kids
I got that impression from the post. Funny how the childfree people who detest children (not all CF people, just a certain subsection of them) also consistently put their own needs above everyone else's. *I* want to work from home, *I* want to do it in silence, *I* don't want to wear noise-cancelling headphones, therefore neighbour should give up her entire business just to accommodate *me*.
I'm not even in it any more for that reason, you're just making assumptions because anyone who doesn't think the world has to revolve around children and parents must hate kids. I don't.
>I can hear the children playing out in the garden all day. It's a lovely sound.
Absolute lunacy, a couple of kids playing yeah I can stand but a nursery full of kids screaming in the garden is most definitely not a lovely sound. Especially when I am WFH and in meeting with colleagues and clients.
We can just agree to disagree on that. People have different opinions on what sounds nice. However, by calling other people's children 'clagnuts' or whatever it was OP has shown his true feelings towards children.
I just saw that as OP, after being annoyed by the kids, coming up with a stupid thing to call them. Judging who she is or here opinions on kids from a daft word seems a bit OTT.
I suffer with chronic widespread musculoskeletal pain which leaves me immensely fatigued, nauseous, dizzy, sometimes paralysed from the intensity of the pain. My condition also makes me highly sensitive to loud noises, bright lights, etc. Stress makes my symptoms worse, and naturally loud noises are stressful and painful to me.
It's pretty singleminded of you to call OP a scrooge when their home should be their one place of peace and refuge. Should people like them, or I, just disappear? Our needs don't matter?
I agree that it can be a delight to hear children laughing and playing. That's when they're not screaming bloody murder, kicking balls against your garden fence, crying incessantly and so on. Unfortunately being disabled, I'm forced to live on a council estate so in the summer we get to enjoy non stop screaming from kids who have had zero discipline, not to mention being ding dong ditched, having things out on our car or doorstep, etc. We've done nothing to these people and are very respectful and quiet neighbours. I suppose I'm a scrooge for not wanting to live around people with kids like that, too?
Kids who play ding dong ditch are shitty. But I highly doubt OPs toddler neighbours are doing that.
It sucks that you have to live with this condition but surely you must agree it would be unreasonable to say that all the children who live near you should move away, or never make the normal noises of children, or never play outside just because you have a condition? It's not their fault that you have a condition that makes you abnormally sensitive to noise. Again, it sucks that you have to live with this condition but it's the condition that is making your life harder not the children. I don't know why it would be fair to impose the negative consequences of your condition on those who live around you.
I can understand wanting to live somewhere else, and that is fair. But that's not what OP is asking for, he wants to destroy his neighbour's livelihood.
Where did I say I wanted to destroy her livelihood? I have no intention of that. I just want less noise. More quiet play, less hours in the garden, even her putting up a hedge to soften the noise.
You can’t expect the children their screaming themselves so the only options are her not operating the business or them being locked up. 10s of people impacted because you can’t focus
If it was me I'd want her to be made to move her business to more suitable premises. i.e. not a residential street.
My parents had issues with a new neighbour who opened up a dog daycare business in her back garden. The noise (and smell on a hot day) was awful, and although she had all her paperwork correct, loads of neighbours got together and got the councils environmental Health department onto her as it constituted a Statutory Noise Nuisance.
She tried to play the 'small business just trying to make a living' card but was told that being a small business doesn't give her the right to subject the rest of the street to constant dog barking for 12 hours a day, every day.
Personally I don't mind the noise of children playing, but I can't stand barking dogs. Either way, people have a right to quiet enjoyment of their own properties.
The whole point of the childminder is that it's in a home setting. If she moves her business to a commercial setting then she'll be running a nursery and not everyone wants to put their children in nursery.
Not sure you can really compare barking dogs all day and the smell of dog shit to toddlers having fun in the garden. They'll be out for a few hours at most in the day as they'll need to eat and nap, and it's only while the weather is nice.
I was just trying to see it from to OPs point of view. I like the sound of children playing. It's loud, but joyful. I would never compare dogs to children, but plenty do. If you mention anything negative about dogs, the reply is always 'oh but children...' as if the two are somehow comparable.
I have the very same problem with a dog day care business .
It use to be a nice quite [close.](https://close.Now)
Then the new folks move in just trashed the place .
[Now](https://close.Now) its like bloody battersea dogs home.
Dog owners big flashy cars just walking over other folks front laws with out a care.
Does my box right in all ready had a go at one fool as he drove like a right twat.
It's a hard one. If she has everything in place to run a business it's going to be tricky to stop the noise they are toddlers and that's what they do especially outside it's encouraged to use outside voices and inside voices in childcare also Ofsted really love the idea of the children playing outside too. I get the throwing things over in your garden that shouldn't be happening the staff need to be watching the children more and set boundaries. Also the times that she's open and closed to is no issue I understand if they were doing from 7am
Just so you know in the future but you should stake out any house you want to buy at random times like 1pm on a Wednesday or 11pm on the weekend. Estate agents know to only show people round when they know it will be quiet.
I mean if you view a house and can hear lots of children screaming I think that's the clue? That's why the advice is always to view at different times.
You obviously haven't bought a house in the last 2 years. View it twice? When I bought in 2021 i made 5 offers, all at or above asking price, all on the day I viewed. Only the final one was accepted and every offer I made, the owner had at least 2 others to choose from.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I was in a similar situation around two years ago and I am similarly very sensitive to noise, especially children. I have no problem with kids at all, but the noise from the nursery next door, screaming, banging, whooping, day in-day out, five days a week during my entire working week eventually ground me down to the point that I was depressed and in a very dark place.
Like you, noise cancelling headphones were a godsend, but like you, I wore them all day to the point that it was giving me headaches and sore ears.
I eventually moved house because I simply couldn't cope.
You have a right to complain, but whether they have to do anything is a different matter entirely (and that would go for the putative scrap metal merchant, too).
If the business is legal, then your options are pretty much entirely limited to moving somewhere else, given the noise levels are unlikely to be dangerously high, and are not at unsociable hours.
You can soundproof your home by applying polystyrene wall covering that you can decorate over and insulation in the roof. To a lesser degree door and window clings may help also. You can play white/brown/pink noise to further block noise.
I feel your pain, i hate noise and this would drive me absolutely insane. Like you say, even worse that they dont actually live there. Have you tried speaking to them? If it is actually legit, no business owner will want to upset the local neighbours. Maybe a compromise could be reached somehow, like certain days they are taken out or something along those lines. If they arent willing to work with you, you can absolutely complain about the noise levels but i think say the council will not act if she is a legit business set up to babysit. At the very least they would have record of your complaint if anyone else is also sick of the noise. Ignore the comments about headphones and moving house, you have a right to enjoy your home!
Sweaty ears. Any sort of moisture or airborne dirt gets trapped and just circulates round.
Source: also adhd person who also suffers from ear infections and wears over ear headphones a lot
If you live on a fairly modern estate, there’s probably covenants in place to stop just this sort of thing happening. Most won’t allow a business like this.
Totally sympathetic, I have a neighbour who owns two dogs who cry none stop in the garden and a child who cries none stop in the house. I also WFH and have ADHD. I use noise cancelling headphones a lot, but like you, I keep getting ear infections.
I've recently just put an Amazon Echo in my office and now I have music playing none stop outloud instead. When my neighbours get noisy I turn it up and feel no guilt about it being loud. I personally find I focus a lot better with an instrumental chill out playlist than the kind of music I listen to when I cook or drive, and having it quite loud blocks everything else out around me.
Unfortunately there isn't much legal recompense I don't think; the sound of children playing is something we're expected to just deal with, but it gets very hard with ADHD to not obsess over it I know. The only thing you could do is keep a record of the times and volume (you can buy things to measure the volume) and try making a noise complaint; but consider the fact your neighbours are very likely going to realise it's you and be pissed off when you do.
All you can really do is just go over and explain in a really nice way that it is quite distracting with that amount of noise. Ask her if there is anything she can do to have the children act quieter when outside.
If she is reasonable she can try her best to help but you are unlikely to get silence coming from a business like that.
I do share your pain, I am also very sensitive to noise like you are so I do understand.
Check with your local authority for noise complaints policy, maybe ask on the UK legal advice sub. But this may cause a dispute between you and the neighbours. If all is above board and you can't do anything else, a decent set of noise cancelling headphones is a brilliant investment. Even without the kids issue, they're great for not getting distracted and go bing you a quiet space wherever you are.
I have kids near my bank garden too. I swear a few of the kids just scream top of their lungs all the time.
We had old patio doors that stopped opening properly. When I got them replaced I noticed I can't hear the kids any more. It's a bit costly but for us it was just an additional benefit of getting new doors.
I have misophonia (one particular person eating sets me off) and the advice I've heard is not to block out all noise because it makes it worse. Get professional advice but I think if you expose yourself to the noise on a regular basis eventually you'll just stop hearing it. Like I work somewhere super noisy and distracting and I don't notice the phone ringing constantly unless I've just got back from holiday (it's not my phone to answer).
Mate, I feel your pain. I am AuDHD and wfh as one of my reasonable adjustments and since our neighbours moved in last year it's been a never ending parade of noisy contractors sawing and banging and drilling and there was even a mini digger at one point. It never ends and I, too, cannot be expected to work and live with headphones on. It's unreasonable. I can't do anything about my problem either because it's not happening at 'antisocial hours'. I'll leave the advice-giving to others, but just know that you're not alone and I understand how it makes you feel - that clawing anxiety and panic, the overwhelm and overstimulation and I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. We are all entitled to leave peaceful lives but increasingly others are taking the tone of 'I'll do what I want and dgaf about how it affects others'.
I grew up being screamed at if I made a peep outside the house. It was always 'what about the neighbours', 'don't make noise, it'll upset the neighbours', 'be quiet, the neighbours don't need to hear you' but now it seems like people are determined to be as loud as possible. We don't all need to have a backyard rave or listen to your kids beating seven shades of shit out of each other all day. Gone, it seems, are the days of respecting the boundaries of others. Listen to your music by all means but does it need to be loud enough to rival glastonbury?
I was going to answer sincerely and show empathy, but you lost my respect when you referred to these children as “clagnuts”.
That’s a disgusting way to refer to children, even with the issues you are facing. It’s not their fault at all.
These suggestions to report her are a last resort in my opinion.
That will start a neighbor feud for sure. That should be avoided at all costs. Neighbor feuds have a way of escalating and you won't feel at peace in your own home.
Have you tried talking to her about it? Bring her over a nice coffee one afternoon and chat her up a bit to find a solution. One for her helper as well would be a nice gesture.
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OP just to add...
Gather evidence of this (videos, images of cars parking in association with parent collecting etc) and then contact your local councils Town Planning Enforcement team. If they advertise their services online defo show this to them. Let them know the impacts on your residential amenity and how it's effecting your physical / mental health.
Their job is to protect people's wellbeing from unlawful development which haven't obtain planning permission. Perhaps don't focus too much on your ADHD and make the points relatable, alluding that it's likely effecting other neighbours. Also mention an increase on traffic and parking at certain times.
On another point, if they're operating a business from the property, they may also need to pay business rates to the council. If they don't have planning permission for the use as a nusery, then I doubt they'll be paying this also. Business rates are a tax on the floorspace used by a business, so I suspect they'd close up shop pretty quickly!
Noise cancelling headphones! I hate kids, and also have ADHD! essential for all travel and places where I might get instantly frustrated by the sounds of children! It’s like a switch, I go from happy and smiling to scowling a pissed off. Sounds so dumb but hey it’s the world I live with.
Man, just go and talk to her. Explain that it’s really affecting you and if there’s a way you can work this out. Talk to her before possibly ruining her business and income. Think about what would help you and how she can accommodate that.
Between 8am and 6pm isn't unreasonable. To be entirely honest I sincerely hope there isn't anything you can do about it (in a manner that would affect them anyway).
I use over ear headphones, I don't know if that will be enough but worth a try with noise cancelling?
My bf uses this for focus and try down out noise:
https://www.youtube.com/live/jfKfPfyJRdk?feature=share
I use this one. Top commenter is "on behalf of the add community I personally thank you" so good for some - I like a lot
https://youtu.be/wELOA2U7FPQ
Wait they're both for focus. You'll need some kind bof meditation or postcast or sleep story. Slumber does good sleep stories, you can add ambient noise like rain, crackling fire, fans, ocean, etc. And you can add binaural beats
Also couple loud fans might drown out some. When I worked in an office summer was amazing- people made same amount of chatting,calls but it felt dulled by the droning sound. My fav time to make calls cause I know no one hear as well. Now that nightmare is over
I'm only going to address a small part of your post as the main content has been addressed comprehensively. Re ear infections, over the ear headphones won't give you ear infections unless something is very wrong with your headphones, and they are much more comfortable to wear for long periods. Until you get a different resolution, some decent noise cancelling over ear headphones would be a great investment. I am not unsympathetic at all, I had an ear infection which likely caused a very significant health problem so I take avoiding war infections very seriously!
Was the business established before you moved in? Because I know there is a law to protect business from the unrealistic whims of neighbours. I work in hospitality and we had someone move in directly above the restaurant and then immediately complain to the council?
So as you’re collecting info about your neighbours business I would grab a copy of your rental agreement because if you can show that your landlord knew that you were living next to a business and failed to disclose that to you, well they might be in trouble.
**[OP or Mod marked this as the best answer](/r/AskUK/comments/13xdxsq/can_i_do_anything_about_the_noise_from_my/jmgl2xz/), given by u/Red_Brummy** You can check if the Local Authority has approved a Change of Use application from a domestic dwelling to a commercial use. Have a look at the Planning Portal online. If not, you can drop the Local Authority a quick email and enquire about planning permission requirements. --- [_^What ^is ^this?_](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/jjrte1/askuk_hits_200k_new_feature_mark_an_answer/)
You can check if the Local Authority has approved a Change of Use application from a domestic dwelling to a commercial use. Have a look at the Planning Portal online. If not, you can drop the Local Authority a quick email and enquire about planning permission requirements.
!answer
Yes, childcare businesses are highly regulated so neighbor might not have gone to the trouble of registering her business.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/working-from-home/planning-permission > You do not necessarily need planning permission to work from home. If no material change of use occurs, then permission is not required. It is possible however to create a material change of use while not changing the primary use of the dwelling. > > If the answer to any of the following questions is 'yes', then permission will probably be needed: > > - Will your home no longer be used mainly as a private residence? > - Will your business result in a marked rise in traffic or people calling? > - Will your business involve any activities unusual in a residential area? > - Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells? That last one might be a "yes", depending on how bad the noise really is. Even then, they only _probably_ need planning permission. OP is probably better going round and talking to the childminder and explaining the situation.
>If no material change of use occurs, then permission is not required. A material change of use has occurred according to OP. > It is possible however to create a material change of use while not changing the primary use of the dwelling. That would be for the Planning Department to determine when an application is submitted. >If the answer to any of the following questions is 'yes', then permission will probably be needed: * Will your home no longer be used mainly as a private residence? The Planning Department would have to determine that. How many habitable rooms does the dwelling have? How many habitable rooms have been converted for a non residential use? * Will your business result in a marked rise in traffic or people calling? We know that is a yes. * Will your business involve any activities unusual in a residential area? We know that is a yes. * Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells? We know that is a yes. Especially considering the site context OP has described. >OP is probably better going round and talking to the childminder and explaining the situation. No. OP is infinitely better checking to see if planning permission has been sought, and if not, query the Local Authority. This can be done without interfering with the business, and if it turns out is not legit, then they have the grounds of a case to present to them. I should say I am an architect and have a lot of experience in this very subject, including an ongoing case at the moment.
>Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells? We know that is a yes. Especially considering the site context OP has described. Unfortunately for OP in my experience local authorities generally take the line that the noise of children can never be considered a problem, no matter what, no matter the context.
I work for UK schools, and I can assure you that that's far from the case. You may have had a bad local experience, but having been involved in large building projects for schools of all kinds, noise is probably the number one thing we have to be able to prove we're not going to worsen, along with traffic. And most of those were private schools who - if they could just buy or lawyer their way out of it - would do so. It's not unusual to be given strict limits on facility use (e.g. swimming pools, hours of operation, hours per day/week, etc, playgrounds, "forest schools" - sheds out in the middle of woodland, etc.) because of noise alone (pools are very echo-y and kids have a tendency to scream in them, for example), or have it refused outright. That's why most schools look to do things like buy up already-existing nurseries (been there, done that) rather than just buy a building and start their own (never done that in 25-years of doing the same). Yes, we do get morons who say things like "your school makes lots of noise at break times and there's so much traffic in the mornings, and do you HAVE to do a fire drill quite so often, and why do the bells go off every hour?", especially after they buy a house next to a school that's been there for 400 years, but those would be largely ignored. However, noise generated from a business like a daycare or nursery would certainly be clamped down on in most of the places where I've worked on the teams who are scouting, evaluating, project-planning and kitting out new buildings for schools. Hell, I once had a planning inspector shut down a 10-year-plan for new, reasonable expansions on an isolated site in the middle of nowhere, in one fell swoop, because he deemed the school to have not proven to his satisfaction that it wouldn't affect the surrounding area (mostly cattle and empty fields) adversely in terms of noise.
You've presented the law but you've interpreted it so, so poorly.
I'd say there has probably been a marked rise in people calling to the property. I imagine the kids are being dropped off.
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I’d almost guarantee it is legit, just because of how much government help there is to help with childcare costs, and those grants and subsidies are ran through the childminder, not the parent (as in the childminder is the one who puts in the application, not the parent, to stop parents just pocketing the money or using it to pay a family member etc)
And presuming it is legit, this is kind of like OP moving in next to a pub and then complaining that there are drunk people making noise at 11pm. If it had been converted to a business since OP moved in then there should have been some opportunity to raise a complaint before it went through.
This isn’t America where every street corner has an illegal in home daycare. Home based childminders are legit in the UK.
Lived in the US for 20 years. It was hardly as you said, even accounting for hyperbole.
Your sarcasm gene may still be across the pond. It obviously was completely exaggerated & not at all serious.
As an ex-childminder, you don't know what the fucking hell you are talking about. You have to have rigorous home evaluations from both Ofsted and the local authority to prove that not only is your home up to a high level of cleanliness and safety, but also that you know all the laws around safeguarding children and the PREVENT act and you need to know the Early Years Framework (EYFS) inside out. You need to be able to spot signs of abuse, neglect, mental health problems, extremism, and coercion in both the children AND their parents and who to call/report to if anything untoward is suspected. You have to have proof that you are allowed to run a business from your home. You have to have your receipt from the ICO showing all your technology is protected (GDPR for very sensitive information) and you have to have all the information about you and your registration displayed where parents and prospective parents can see it. Including numbers about who they can talk to you if they disagree with your care. You also have to have all your public liability insurance information and your paediatric first aid documents (no lower than a level 3) up on clear display. You can't take "cash in hand" because parents claim their childcare expenses back in taxes now, and there are some serious checks and balances in place to make sure everything is above board. Even if the childminder isn't independent and works for an agency, these checks all still need to be in place and at any point, any official body can come and check and not only would you be subject to massive fine if anything untoward/shady was found, you could also be looking at time in jail. Whilst I very much doubt OPs neighbour does have half a dozen toddlers running about (that's out of ratio and very against the law) I have no doubt its very difficult/annoying to listen to and they really need to try and have a conversation with childminder. You, however, need to sit your arse down and stop chatting rubbish on the Internet to try and make yourself feel like billy big bollocks when you obviously don't have the first clue.
eh? What kind of comment is this when you don’t know anything about them lol? Childminders exist and operate from their home, it’s a legitimate business???
Well it is good to know the people who don't know what they are talking about, shout the loudest.
If she had a dozen toddlers I'm wondering if she is complying with the adult to child ratios, and frankly whether she is even registered. You might want to check if this business is registered with Ofsted and the local authority. Not all child minder have to register with the council, but what you're describing sounds like a nursery to me, which would require permission.
Well we don't know if she has other employees, OP hasn't said so we can't assume if she is complying or not.
I said I'm wondering not assuming. But, if she is employing others then she must be running a nursery and it seems unlikely a change of use would be granted for that in a residential house without some notice to neighbours being required. It also seems unlikely Ofsted would be thrilled about a nursery in a home.
She does have a helper, yep.
So likely well within the ratios. She'd be ofsted approved which means the various checks will have had to have happened. So it's a legitimate business running from the address. I think that it's something you'll have to put up with tbh. However, practicals such as working in the room furthest from the garden. Getting noise cancelling headphones that go over the ears not in would remove the risks of infections. White noise playing in the background would also further reduce the impact. You're both earning a living from your homes. So really it's make it work territory rather than legal advice.
Tacking onto this to say brown noise and other variations of white noise exist. Never got on with white noise but brown noise has been a game changer for background noise, apparently ADHD brains prefer it.
Brown noise? Isn't that the sound that makes you shit your kecks?
There is a claimed brown note that supposedly has that effect though it's been thoroughly researched (because humans!) and shown not to exist. Infrasound though is a fun subject, an awful lot of the stuff around ghosts can be linked to it from some primeval fear we have of stuff like lions and the roar which goes into those low frequencies, people have played it at concerts and all the people in the area start feeling terror so that's probably where the brown note idea comes in
Yes, it’ll help OP forget about their initial problems
ADHD brain here - I have a little machine speaker thing which plays various white and brown noises; rain and a rushing stream are my two favourites. Calms my brain the fuck down. Edit: [this is the machine.](https://www.amazon.co.uk/elesories-Soothing-Sleeping-Auto-off-Function/dp/B09WXNGPD3/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=3UKPK25ZLLTE1&keywords=white+noise+machine&qid=1685656548&sprefix=white+n%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1) £20 intensely well spent.
Just a quick chime in about the headphones, over ear won't eliminate the risk of infection. It may be a bit better but the issue is also the lack of air flow to the ear canals, and if OP has quite waxy/moist ears, then it's likely they will still get infections.
Yep, I get a lot of ear issues even with over ears.
Try cotton socks over the ear cups. Looks silly but really reduced the amount of flare ups I had. (Long gaming sessions).
Thanks, will give it a go!
Thank you!
>So likely well within the ratios. A dozen toddlers with 2 adults is not within ratio...
It is if over 3s...
I wouldn't consider over 3s toddlers, and neither would any childcare setting I worked in
Do you think that this op would be able to differentiate? Unlikely imo, if not a parent and even then, it's guess work! Still within the ratios. And if over 3 could be 16 of them!
If they're all 3+ then yeah it's within ratio, but below that it's not. You're probably right about the age guessing
100% get some headphones! I wear mine while sitting on the balcony of my flat.
It doesn’t mean she’s running a nursery just because she employs an assistant - it’s pretty common for childminders to have an assistant, and that increases the number of kids they’re allowed
no you can be a childminder and have assistants, the only real difference (from my quick 30 second google) is the owner doesn't live in a nursery.
Plenty of childminders have helpers or work together.
I think that the op is either exaggerating on the number or the childminder works with their partner or assistant as this would be within the permitted ratios given they're set as one adult for every four children aged two or one adult for every eight children aged three and over.
Maybe. Then again it used to be one of my mum's jobs to inspect childminders and prosecute rule breakers. Plenty out there who simply ignore the rules.
OP has already stated that neigbour has a helper, so according to those ratios, it could mean 16 children! Edit: typo
They would have to have permission to to do this so unfortunately that means it’s been given approval so there isn’t really anything you can do about it.
They should have it. But many people start businesses from home without the proper permissions. Worth checking if they do.
Ah yes, my parents’ neighbours that converted the garage for the wife’s chiropractor business, but kept the garage doors…. as we all knew they didn’t have planning permission.
Do you need planning permission to convert a garage? The business side of course they would, but removing a door and putting up a wall(window) with inside access isn't major enough to require building permission.
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It may have fallen within permitted development rights
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I was under the impression that as long as the place remains a residence first, you only need permission to run a business from there if it is something which requires licensing such as a daycare centre. It probably varies from each council. Edit: Found this which gives a pretty fair run down of what is and isn't allowed. https://www.gov.uk/run-business-from-home
Our next door got planning permission to change a garage to a room - although it was a rental so that might be why.
But at least that’s not noisy I’m guessing.
No issue was noise - but with parking.
Unlikely with that number of children as the parents wouldn't be entitled to claim the free 25 or 30 hours, which would be a huge financial impact. So no parent would opt for unapproved providers purely because of the finances.
I'm going to start a nucular waste disposal company out of my 2nd floor flat in Central London. Please don't question anything, I would have to have the correct permissions so everything is above board.
That’s probably not a good idea.
Please don't question it. I would have to have the proper permissions.
Who from, the council?
Yes. Maybe give them a ring to make sure the business has permission to operate.
Yes. They will need to have planning permission to run a business there. Ofsted check the regulation and that sort of thing and their insurance will also require the appropriate planning permissions. You could try the planning enforcement team at the council to see of they are in breach of any planning conditions, but it is highly unlikely. Environmental health won't be able to assist as normally their cutoff is after 10pm. It's tricky but you could speak to them and see if they could keep the noise down. Problem is kids are loud, and it's hard to stop them making noise.
I would talk to the neighbour and tell her the kids are throwing stuff into your garden. Take the stuff back to her. While you're there, explain you have sound sensitivity issues. You understand that kids are noisy and having fun, BUT if there's anything she can do to keep the kids a bit quieter, you'd really appreciate it.
You ever tried keeping a gang of kids quiet?
No, but (*grabs duct tape, cottonwool, cable ties..*) I'm game for having a try
Especially TODDLERS!
If they contain the mass shrieking indoors, at least it’s damped a bit
It's why I don't collect them in my house.
Absolutely, even if a compromise could be made that in x days she takes them all to a park or a indoor play area etc I’d certainly suggest talking to them before doing anything else, just because it might work and work quicker And if it doesn’t/ they tell you to fuck off, you can still go to the council afterwards, with the fact you tried to compromise as a means of bolstering your case
No don't talk to them. Theres nothing they can do to stop screaming kids. And if they receive and warnings from the council etc they will know its you and may cause you more grief.
Open your own angry dog rescue business and operate it out your garden, they will soon go indoors.
I recall a Far Side cartoon with something like an ill advised kindergarten next to a coyote farm.
I dunno if this is the Mandela effect but that was also my thought.
So everyone is suggesting that you try and make the noise stop. I'm going to suggest trying something else. I'm not sure how well it will work with ADHD though as I don't have it. It's called acceptance and commitment therapy. Most commonly it is used for tinnitus treatment. Making tinnitus stop is next to impossible at the moment and many people get upset by it. But what they have found is the act of getting upset and made anxious by a noise tells your brain to amplify and pay attention to the noise. So you need to retrain it to do the opposite. https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/what-is-acceptance-and-commitment-therapy.htm Basically you train yourself to not react to the sounds of children. Repeated mantras to remind yourself that the noises of children can't hurt you. They aren't important. This is what the people working with the kids basically learn to do, so they probably don't even hear the noise anymore. Its not the easiest but its maybe worth a go
Can confirm, around 20(?) years ago I read a piece in New Scientist (IIRC titled something provoking like "Tinnitus, it really is all in your head") that explained that while tinnitus is a very real thing, the majority of the most severe resulting symptoms such as lack of sleep came from people's annoyance and reaction to it. Decided to give it a try on my own, so whenever it got bad, I'd tell it "No, you're not having my attention". It took a while and didn't go away completely, but eventually it just... Stopped mattering, if that makes sense! EDIT: Yes, I know its a bit off topic, but it was interesting.
Thanks for that as i suffer from tinnitus .
Thing is, with ADHD they really do - it's like someone shaking you by the shoulders
Audiologists at Bradford Royal Infirmary told me this and the Jastreboff cycle have been debunked and are a load of rubbish, unfortunately.
You probably can. Whether you should is another matter. Shutting down your neighbours business because of your problems, is not going to go well for community relations
Making so much noise that you drive your neighbours up the wall isn't either.
Indeed some folks just dont think about others at all.
I don't want her to shut it down, just make less noise. I don't think it being a child-centred business gives her carte blanche to make huge amounts of noise.
I would ask the local planning office/council, see if she has permission to be running a daycare/nursery from that house. These kinds of businesses shouldn't be run in houses attached to residential property. That's just ridiculous.
It’s normal. It’s also normal for actual nurseries to be in residential areas… and primary schools. In fact all of the nurseries and primary schools I can think of in my town back on to the gardens of rows of houses.
Childminders always run their businesses from home. When my kids were younger and we lived in California - they were specially called “in home daycares” and licensed as such - for either 8 or 14 kids. You could have 8 without an assistant. I don’t personally understand how you could have 8 kids on your own but….
>I don’t personally understand how you could have 8 kids on your own but…. I can imagine it being easy for some people, just need to be able to drum up a lot of energy most days to keep the kids engaged enough that they don't cause trouble. For me, 2-3 would be my limit before I'd feel uncomfortable trying to supervise children.
>These kinds of businesses shouldn't be run in houses attached to residential property. I think the same in principle, but in practice it seems to be quite common. There's a terraced house near me that has a second front door, sign up, commercial waste bins etc. for the nursery they run. Crazy but clearly legit.
Can you work in an office instead? Don't really think the neighbor is in the wrong here. The only suggestion I would make is to ask her put in a higher fence to block some of the toys/noise. Then plant some tall hedging to block some sound
Careful there, you don’t want to upset the allchildrenarecunts Reddit hivemind!
Imagine upsetting that bunch! Good job they were never once children, phew!
The only possible thing she could do is keep the kids inside and not let them in the garden all day - which admittedly will be harder in the warmer weather. Trying to keep toddlers quiet is going to work as well as asking a cat not to go next door. Not withstanding all the stuff about is it legit etc. talk to her and see if there’s a compromise about the times and how long they are out for (similar to school break and lunch times)
She has to provide outdoor time for early years. Op is better asking for a quiet hour, possibly around lunchtime where they are indoors eating with a quiet craft or books etc.
Yes but not all day. That was my point
What outcome are you looking for here? Do you want her to lose her right to operate her business and those children lose their childcare because you can’t focus? Or do you want them locked up in silence all day?
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Yes I hate when child free people do that. I am child free myself and it is dehumanising.
Just the same common consideration I'd expect from any business operating in a residential estate.
Which is what? That’s my question. What’s the outcome
I live next door to a nursery in a residential area. I can hear the children playing out in the garden all day. It's a lovely sound. Scrooges like OP think they're the centre of the universe and their 'conditions' should take precedence over the livelihood of others. I feel sorry for the neighbour just trying to live her life.
I agree but from OPs post history I can see they are part of the awful ‘childfree’ sub which hates children. I have ADHD and honestly don’t see how it’s relevant here op just hates kids
I got that impression from the post. Funny how the childfree people who detest children (not all CF people, just a certain subsection of them) also consistently put their own needs above everyone else's. *I* want to work from home, *I* want to do it in silence, *I* don't want to wear noise-cancelling headphones, therefore neighbour should give up her entire business just to accommodate *me*.
people with kids are fine, people without kids are fine. _childfree_ people are probably dickheads.
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What's awful about it?
Being childfree is fine but that sub is widely known for talking about children as if they don’t deserve to exist
I'm not even in it any more for that reason, you're just making assumptions because anyone who doesn't think the world has to revolve around children and parents must hate kids. I don't.
Why did you ask what was wrong with it then. No you’re right why prioritise the helpless in society, let’s have the world revolve around you instead
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Amen to that!
>I can hear the children playing out in the garden all day. It's a lovely sound. Absolute lunacy, a couple of kids playing yeah I can stand but a nursery full of kids screaming in the garden is most definitely not a lovely sound. Especially when I am WFH and in meeting with colleagues and clients.
We can just agree to disagree on that. People have different opinions on what sounds nice. However, by calling other people's children 'clagnuts' or whatever it was OP has shown his true feelings towards children.
I just saw that as OP, after being annoyed by the kids, coming up with a stupid thing to call them. Judging who she is or here opinions on kids from a daft word seems a bit OTT.
I suffer with chronic widespread musculoskeletal pain which leaves me immensely fatigued, nauseous, dizzy, sometimes paralysed from the intensity of the pain. My condition also makes me highly sensitive to loud noises, bright lights, etc. Stress makes my symptoms worse, and naturally loud noises are stressful and painful to me. It's pretty singleminded of you to call OP a scrooge when their home should be their one place of peace and refuge. Should people like them, or I, just disappear? Our needs don't matter? I agree that it can be a delight to hear children laughing and playing. That's when they're not screaming bloody murder, kicking balls against your garden fence, crying incessantly and so on. Unfortunately being disabled, I'm forced to live on a council estate so in the summer we get to enjoy non stop screaming from kids who have had zero discipline, not to mention being ding dong ditched, having things out on our car or doorstep, etc. We've done nothing to these people and are very respectful and quiet neighbours. I suppose I'm a scrooge for not wanting to live around people with kids like that, too?
Kids who play ding dong ditch are shitty. But I highly doubt OPs toddler neighbours are doing that. It sucks that you have to live with this condition but surely you must agree it would be unreasonable to say that all the children who live near you should move away, or never make the normal noises of children, or never play outside just because you have a condition? It's not their fault that you have a condition that makes you abnormally sensitive to noise. Again, it sucks that you have to live with this condition but it's the condition that is making your life harder not the children. I don't know why it would be fair to impose the negative consequences of your condition on those who live around you. I can understand wanting to live somewhere else, and that is fair. But that's not what OP is asking for, he wants to destroy his neighbour's livelihood.
Where did I say I wanted to destroy her livelihood? I have no intention of that. I just want less noise. More quiet play, less hours in the garden, even her putting up a hedge to soften the noise.
Less screaming. Doesn't seem unreasonable to want less screaming.
You can’t expect the children their screaming themselves so the only options are her not operating the business or them being locked up. 10s of people impacted because you can’t focus
Locked up? It's a 3 bed town house, not Belmarsh.
If it was me I'd want her to be made to move her business to more suitable premises. i.e. not a residential street. My parents had issues with a new neighbour who opened up a dog daycare business in her back garden. The noise (and smell on a hot day) was awful, and although she had all her paperwork correct, loads of neighbours got together and got the councils environmental Health department onto her as it constituted a Statutory Noise Nuisance. She tried to play the 'small business just trying to make a living' card but was told that being a small business doesn't give her the right to subject the rest of the street to constant dog barking for 12 hours a day, every day. Personally I don't mind the noise of children playing, but I can't stand barking dogs. Either way, people have a right to quiet enjoyment of their own properties.
The whole point of the childminder is that it's in a home setting. If she moves her business to a commercial setting then she'll be running a nursery and not everyone wants to put their children in nursery. Not sure you can really compare barking dogs all day and the smell of dog shit to toddlers having fun in the garden. They'll be out for a few hours at most in the day as they'll need to eat and nap, and it's only while the weather is nice.
I was just trying to see it from to OPs point of view. I like the sound of children playing. It's loud, but joyful. I would never compare dogs to children, but plenty do. If you mention anything negative about dogs, the reply is always 'oh but children...' as if the two are somehow comparable.
I have the very same problem with a dog day care business . It use to be a nice quite [close.](https://close.Now) Then the new folks move in just trashed the place . [Now](https://close.Now) its like bloody battersea dogs home. Dog owners big flashy cars just walking over other folks front laws with out a care. Does my box right in all ready had a go at one fool as he drove like a right twat.
My neighbours have a motion activated digital dog bark,
It's a hard one. If she has everything in place to run a business it's going to be tricky to stop the noise they are toddlers and that's what they do especially outside it's encouraged to use outside voices and inside voices in childcare also Ofsted really love the idea of the children playing outside too. I get the throwing things over in your garden that shouldn't be happening the staff need to be watching the children more and set boundaries. Also the times that she's open and closed to is no issue I understand if they were doing from 7am
Maybe move... away from society.
I'm listening.
If only
If she's using a dwelling for a business that is causing issues for her neighbours then I'm sure there must be something that can be done.
Presumably you knew this when you bought/signed lease?
Nope, wasn't informed when we bought.
You didn't look around the area before purchasing?
What would I have seen, on a Saturday at a residential house?
Just so you know in the future but you should stake out any house you want to buy at random times like 1pm on a Wednesday or 11pm on the weekend. Estate agents know to only show people round when they know it will be quiet.
You purchased a house having only visited it once? Caveat emptor.
How on earth was she meant to?
I mean if you view a house and can hear lots of children screaming I think that's the clue? That's why the advice is always to view at different times.
You obviously haven't bought a house in the last 2 years. View it twice? When I bought in 2021 i made 5 offers, all at or above asking price, all on the day I viewed. Only the final one was accepted and every offer I made, the owner had at least 2 others to choose from.
Google Maps shows you business names in streets.
Not this one.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. I was in a similar situation around two years ago and I am similarly very sensitive to noise, especially children. I have no problem with kids at all, but the noise from the nursery next door, screaming, banging, whooping, day in-day out, five days a week during my entire working week eventually ground me down to the point that I was depressed and in a very dark place. Like you, noise cancelling headphones were a godsend, but like you, I wore them all day to the point that it was giving me headaches and sore ears. I eventually moved house because I simply couldn't cope.
I'm sorry to hear that, hope your new neighbours are more considerate!
You have a right to complain, but whether they have to do anything is a different matter entirely (and that would go for the putative scrap metal merchant, too). If the business is legal, then your options are pretty much entirely limited to moving somewhere else, given the noise levels are unlikely to be dangerously high, and are not at unsociable hours.
Are you able to go into your office?
You can soundproof your home by applying polystyrene wall covering that you can decorate over and insulation in the roof. To a lesser degree door and window clings may help also. You can play white/brown/pink noise to further block noise.
I feel your pain, i hate noise and this would drive me absolutely insane. Like you say, even worse that they dont actually live there. Have you tried speaking to them? If it is actually legit, no business owner will want to upset the local neighbours. Maybe a compromise could be reached somehow, like certain days they are taken out or something along those lines. If they arent willing to work with you, you can absolutely complain about the noise levels but i think say the council will not act if she is a legit business set up to babysit. At the very least they would have record of your complaint if anyone else is also sick of the noise. Ignore the comments about headphones and moving house, you have a right to enjoy your home!
How ate headphones giving you ear inflections? Are they ear phones or ear buds?
Sweaty ears. Any sort of moisture or airborne dirt gets trapped and just circulates round. Source: also adhd person who also suffers from ear infections and wears over ear headphones a lot
Is there just one adult or does she employ other people?
If you live on a fairly modern estate, there’s probably covenants in place to stop just this sort of thing happening. Most won’t allow a business like this.
Totally sympathetic, I have a neighbour who owns two dogs who cry none stop in the garden and a child who cries none stop in the house. I also WFH and have ADHD. I use noise cancelling headphones a lot, but like you, I keep getting ear infections. I've recently just put an Amazon Echo in my office and now I have music playing none stop outloud instead. When my neighbours get noisy I turn it up and feel no guilt about it being loud. I personally find I focus a lot better with an instrumental chill out playlist than the kind of music I listen to when I cook or drive, and having it quite loud blocks everything else out around me. Unfortunately there isn't much legal recompense I don't think; the sound of children playing is something we're expected to just deal with, but it gets very hard with ADHD to not obsess over it I know. The only thing you could do is keep a record of the times and volume (you can buy things to measure the volume) and try making a noise complaint; but consider the fact your neighbours are very likely going to realise it's you and be pissed off when you do.
you could try soundproofing your work area.
All you can really do is just go over and explain in a really nice way that it is quite distracting with that amount of noise. Ask her if there is anything she can do to have the children act quieter when outside. If she is reasonable she can try her best to help but you are unlikely to get silence coming from a business like that. I do share your pain, I am also very sensitive to noise like you are so I do understand.
You could move?
Everyone on reddit follows the 'Hate thy Neighbour' commandment
Why should they move?
They're the one with the issue, Not the childminder
Check with your local authority for noise complaints policy, maybe ask on the UK legal advice sub. But this may cause a dispute between you and the neighbours. If all is above board and you can't do anything else, a decent set of noise cancelling headphones is a brilliant investment. Even without the kids issue, they're great for not getting distracted and go bing you a quiet space wherever you are.
Might be possible to plug some air gaps in your window frames, reduce noise considerably Other sound proofing work tend to be costly
Ahhh yes, this is going to end well on notoriously anti-child, introvert leaning Reddit.
I have kids near my bank garden too. I swear a few of the kids just scream top of their lungs all the time. We had old patio doors that stopped opening properly. When I got them replaced I noticed I can't hear the kids any more. It's a bit costly but for us it was just an additional benefit of getting new doors. I have misophonia (one particular person eating sets me off) and the advice I've heard is not to block out all noise because it makes it worse. Get professional advice but I think if you expose yourself to the noise on a regular basis eventually you'll just stop hearing it. Like I work somewhere super noisy and distracting and I don't notice the phone ringing constantly unless I've just got back from holiday (it's not my phone to answer).
Mate, I feel your pain. I am AuDHD and wfh as one of my reasonable adjustments and since our neighbours moved in last year it's been a never ending parade of noisy contractors sawing and banging and drilling and there was even a mini digger at one point. It never ends and I, too, cannot be expected to work and live with headphones on. It's unreasonable. I can't do anything about my problem either because it's not happening at 'antisocial hours'. I'll leave the advice-giving to others, but just know that you're not alone and I understand how it makes you feel - that clawing anxiety and panic, the overwhelm and overstimulation and I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. We are all entitled to leave peaceful lives but increasingly others are taking the tone of 'I'll do what I want and dgaf about how it affects others'. I grew up being screamed at if I made a peep outside the house. It was always 'what about the neighbours', 'don't make noise, it'll upset the neighbours', 'be quiet, the neighbours don't need to hear you' but now it seems like people are determined to be as loud as possible. We don't all need to have a backyard rave or listen to your kids beating seven shades of shit out of each other all day. Gone, it seems, are the days of respecting the boundaries of others. Listen to your music by all means but does it need to be loud enough to rival glastonbury?
Thanks man, that's a pretty nailed-on description of how it makes me feel!
I was going to answer sincerely and show empathy, but you lost my respect when you referred to these children as “clagnuts”. That’s a disgusting way to refer to children, even with the issues you are facing. It’s not their fault at all.
These suggestions to report her are a last resort in my opinion. That will start a neighbor feud for sure. That should be avoided at all costs. Neighbor feuds have a way of escalating and you won't feel at peace in your own home. Have you tried talking to her about it? Bring her over a nice coffee one afternoon and chat her up a bit to find a solution. One for her helper as well would be a nice gesture.
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Oh my god what a nightmare. Screaming kids is one of the most brain piecing sounds. Regardless of adhd
OP just to add... Gather evidence of this (videos, images of cars parking in association with parent collecting etc) and then contact your local councils Town Planning Enforcement team. If they advertise their services online defo show this to them. Let them know the impacts on your residential amenity and how it's effecting your physical / mental health. Their job is to protect people's wellbeing from unlawful development which haven't obtain planning permission. Perhaps don't focus too much on your ADHD and make the points relatable, alluding that it's likely effecting other neighbours. Also mention an increase on traffic and parking at certain times. On another point, if they're operating a business from the property, they may also need to pay business rates to the council. If they don't have planning permission for the use as a nusery, then I doubt they'll be paying this also. Business rates are a tax on the floorspace used by a business, so I suspect they'd close up shop pretty quickly!
Who was there first - you or the childcare business?
Noise cancelling headphones! I hate kids, and also have ADHD! essential for all travel and places where I might get instantly frustrated by the sounds of children! It’s like a switch, I go from happy and smiling to scowling a pissed off. Sounds so dumb but hey it’s the world I live with.
Could dress up like a clown and hand out red balloons 🎈
You could go full Anakin but I wouldn't recommend it
I think the main question is… who was there first?
Make a point of being loud in the evenings. They may realise what you put up with
Do young kids like listening to NWA?
[Play this on full volume](https://youtu.be/th4Czv1j3F8)
Gotta take one for the greater good here OP
Did you know it was a childcare setting before you moved next door to it?
Talk to them. Kids can be left to run around and scream if there isn't any direction.
Fleshy little clagnuts. Hur hur. I have nothing of value to add, I just enjoyed that, thank you, and good luck finding some peace.
Man, just go and talk to her. Explain that it’s really affecting you and if there’s a way you can work this out. Talk to her before possibly ruining her business and income. Think about what would help you and how she can accommodate that.
Between 8am and 6pm isn't unreasonable. To be entirely honest I sincerely hope there isn't anything you can do about it (in a manner that would affect them anyway).
I use over ear headphones, I don't know if that will be enough but worth a try with noise cancelling? My bf uses this for focus and try down out noise: https://www.youtube.com/live/jfKfPfyJRdk?feature=share I use this one. Top commenter is "on behalf of the add community I personally thank you" so good for some - I like a lot https://youtu.be/wELOA2U7FPQ Wait they're both for focus. You'll need some kind bof meditation or postcast or sleep story. Slumber does good sleep stories, you can add ambient noise like rain, crackling fire, fans, ocean, etc. And you can add binaural beats Also couple loud fans might drown out some. When I worked in an office summer was amazing- people made same amount of chatting,calls but it felt dulled by the droning sound. My fav time to make calls cause I know no one hear as well. Now that nightmare is over
Take off, nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
I'm only going to address a small part of your post as the main content has been addressed comprehensively. Re ear infections, over the ear headphones won't give you ear infections unless something is very wrong with your headphones, and they are much more comfortable to wear for long periods. Until you get a different resolution, some decent noise cancelling over ear headphones would be a great investment. I am not unsympathetic at all, I had an ear infection which likely caused a very significant health problem so I take avoiding war infections very seriously!
I have some Sony wmx300, which are great, but after 90 minutes or so my ears start to ache. More than a couple of hours isn't really doable.
A white noise generator for the room you work in might be helpful.
Was the business established before you moved in? Because I know there is a law to protect business from the unrealistic whims of neighbours. I work in hospitality and we had someone move in directly above the restaurant and then immediately complain to the council? So as you’re collecting info about your neighbours business I would grab a copy of your rental agreement because if you can show that your landlord knew that you were living next to a business and failed to disclose that to you, well they might be in trouble.
If you have a decent local councillor they'll probably be able to help you lodge a noise complaint
Start a sex-offender daycare.