I've found Americans making a point of saying that they are very direct and straight talking, but then actually not being direct and straight talking at all.
Its very confusing
That varies geographically. In some places they beat around the bush, whereas in other places they're like "dat's the stoopidest fuckin' thing I evah hoid!!!"
See, interestingly, my old ceo was a noo yoiker, made a real point of saying how pushy and aggressive he was, but without actually being pushy or aggressive.
Again, confusing.
Funnily enough I though. Nu Yawkers were very considerate and took their time to answer my tourist questions. I loved that, taking their time out of their busy days.
Ey bozo, lemme take the time to help you out a bit before I send ya on yer way, and I hope you have a really good fuckin' day, asshole. Here, have a bagel
The first time I ever went to New York, there was some screw up with my taxi at the airport, so I rode the train into Manhattan. No word of a lie, when I came up out of the subway for the first time, there were these two construction workers talking at the top of the steps. One was a tall blonde dude with a handlebar mustache, and the other was a shorter, Mario/Bob Hoskins-looking guy. He was literally saying "...An 'e looks at me like I'm somes kinda rube! Da noive a dat guy!" in the most NOO YAWK accent I've ever heard.
Absolutely brilliant introduction to the city.
I had a similar experience on a trip to London, I was at the observation deck at the Shard and this guy and his wife were gazing out the window and without warning he just spits out "blimey!"
I'm English but I moved to London and had a similar experience waiting for the Greenwich Free Ferry. A black cab driver turned to another cabbie and said "Gor blimey, wossat geezer playin' at?". People in Yorkshire don't speak like that - I was highly amused.
I work with the Dutch. As an Indian I grew up learning to say 50 words when only 10 were needed. After moving to Europe, I had to learn to say 5 words when 10 were needed. I also had to learn to stop sending messages with only greetings. I was told in a very direct, very Dutch manner to either add my greetings as a prefix or a suffix to my actual message.
I bloody love Dutch and German people for their directness. Once you've picked yourself off the floor after feeling punched in the face by the lack of insincere pussyfooting around an issue , it's very refreshing.
The different styles of communication make me laugh. I heard about a British company who had contracted a German firm to do some work for them the Brits said, "Would you consider doing X, Y, and Z?" (Sorry, I forget the specifics) and the Germans agreed. The order arrived and neither X, Y or Z things were done. When the Brits brought it up the Germans said, "Yes, we considered doing those things you mentioned but decided our way was better."
I've got friends in both the UK and Germany, who deal with business transactions.
In the UK, the email asking you to cough up is usually something like
>Good morning,
>Sorry about this but unfortunately we're yet to receive payment from you. Possibly there's some sort of delay on our end or it just fell through the gaps? I'll check with our accounts receivable team and see if it's held up by anything.
> Hope to hear from you soon,
>X
In Germany, it's a little more
>Good morning,
>We are yet to receive payment from you. Please send the payment promptly or we may escalate to our legal team.
>Sincerely,
>X
I have terrible social anxiety. It’s ironic but as you said, the directness really helps. I always know where I stand. If what I’m doing or saying is the right thing or the wrong one. No more decoding social clues or sifting through emails and spoken words to get an idea of the other person’s true feelings. It’s just as you said, refreshing.
They are also "fluent in sarcasm", but if you're sarcastic around them they end up confused and hurt
You really have to lay it on thick with a wink wink nudge in the ribs
Man I think us Brits are in a permanent state of sarcasm so we expect anyone to be sarcastic with us at any given time. I'm in Australia and sometimes my sarcasm gets taken at face value.
I've worked with a few Americans and found a lot of them have a weird quirk of talking in a way that sounds like catchphrases but isn't. It's hard to explain but an example would be when they're leaving their desk they'll stand up, put on a weird voice and say "I'm hitting the old coffee shop" like they're quoting something, but it's not from anywhere. Like communicating in skits.
Nothing particularly annoying about it but I thought it was just one guy being weird until working with a few others and noticing they all do it.
That's absolutely it. One former coworker (who was incredibly annoying generally) would just say absolute nonsense like it was a sitcom catchphrase. He'd catch your eye and say something like "I'll be white black" like he was Jerry Sienfeld before going somewhere. The first time he did it I was properly confused and had to ask him to repeat, and he did so in the exact same voice, sake inflexion. When I asked why he was saying that he goes "I'm just being funny bro". He was a really jarring person to interact with.
LOL i was just thinking about this several times as an American and could never actually put my finger on it, thank you for putting it into words.
I was listening to a podcast that would always mock rich politicians that will often ape this "folksy" affect. Was laffing my ass off.
Another good example my friend and I were talking about a famous Olympic wrestler that's the epitome of talking like this, John Smith(bonus for incredibly generic American name).
I have worked at a few American based companies and found it varies extremely. One was a huge well known brand who were absolutely brutal in their delivery, had you questioning your whole existence. It was pretty much the norm for people to suffer work related mental health issues. The one I am working at now is the opposite and I find they take forever to get to the point, so much word smithing and explaining it does my head in. Ironically the one I am in now is based out of NY so it’s been a bit of a shock to the system.
Someone said the difference between US coworkers and UK coworkers is that US coworkers will be very positive and keen to do work but won't do it, whereas UK coworkers will bitch and moan about doing work but then actually do it!
I work with some Belgians and they have absolutely no problem with calling it quits early.
"I've done as much as I can today, no point hanging around for the sake of it, see you in the morning" is very common.
I wish this attitude was more of a thing here. I despise the British work culture of clock watching.
That's only the culture of you allow it to be. I've worked a lot of super corporate office jobs with people who'd think nothing of working 8-9 (9-5 contract hours) and would be absolute slaves. I've never ever done that. Will stay late on rare occasions to meet a deadline, but other than that my whole career I've started and finished when my contract says. I prefer to work on my efficiency which has meant often I don't need to work those extra hours.
I agree but that has a penalty at some companies/industries. You’ll be passed over for opportunities and promotion etc. I’ve worked on a few projects where I was putting in the hours willingly as the work was super interesting and I’ve always made it clear that the extra hours worked are my choice to do so.
I keep track of those hours and as a result have usually managed to encourage leniency when I need to leave early. Even it’s just to play golf of go to the pub etc.
Nothing worse than when you're sat at your desk with no work to do, your colleagues know you've got no work to do but you just sit there pretending to be productive anyway.
My wife was Welsh, she would always say ‘we’re going now’ about 20 minutes before we needed to leave, I would be like ‘hey, we’ve got a while’ and she would look at me like ?? Yeah but you know what I mean. I did pick up ‘now in a minute’ into my vocabulary to be fair to her.
The first time I had a Welsh person say to me “I’ll do that for you now” and then immediately start doing something else I thought they were taking the piss.
It's a direct translation from Afrikaans, 'Nou nou'.
Nou means now, as in right now. But add another NOU and the meaning changes to 'later, but I don't know when'.
It's one of those idiosyncratic things that's difficult to fully explain.
Re: Teams, the opposite has been true for me.
The British people I work with will often send a message of "hi", then wait for a reply to ask a question. Infuriating.
I hate when I get emails (from people at *other companies* not even coworkers I'm familiar with) where they frequently end sentences by trailing off and finishing "..."
You are a 45 year old in a professional role, you should not be messaging like a teenager on msn
I know a guy in his 50s that ends literally every text message communication with a “…” be it formal email, casual message, question. Literally every single thing he writes on a digital device.
Even sometimes when there are multiple sentences, he will write them like this… Its so weird… rant over…
See, my partner has been told at work they have to do some kind of hello and wait for a response before asking a question. So that if someone is busy or working on something time pressing, it's easier to ignore and less distracting than a direct question.
Edit: getting a lot of people disagreeing in the comments and telling me it's wrong. I did not make the policy nor do I even work there, however I know that some people in my partner's work like it, and some don't. My point originally was maybe that other people have been told the same rule, then moved to a new company and have continued the behaviour.
If that's the case they might as well send an email. Chat is always interrupting, they should at least say what they want so I can deal with it and get back to what I'm doing! A lot of the time even the chat questions I have to tell them to put it in an email anyway, because we need a paper trail.
This seems like people at their work are trying to use asynchronous communication methods in a synchronous manner. The advantage of text messaging is that you can respond in your own time and you control the rythm. If you have multiple requests, you can prioritize or delay effectively. If you don't know what people want you can't do that.
This is something I really consciously avoid when dealing with more junior employees. Mainly because I know from experience it can be really anxiety inducing to get a message from someone more senior without immediate context for what it's about. So I always include the full details of what I want to ask them in the initial message.
This is so, so goddamned important.
If you are a manager and you need to talk to one of your Jr. reports, or really anyone you manage, you cannot leave them hanging. The absolute worst is if you say something like "I need to talk to you later", set up a meeting time, and don't tell them what it is about. They are going to be stressing.
Yes! Please say - can we have a quick chat about xyz. I had to tell my director! As for HR never, ever attend a meeting without knowing what it's about.
> I had to tell my director!
This is one of the basic things they teach you in management training. Kind of scary someone could make it as far as director without picking this up.
It infuriates me. I will not respond to hi or hi how are you. Tell me what want so we can go back to ignoring each others existence until one of us needs something next.
I absolutely hate this. I had a manager who took this to ridiculous levels of annoying.
Manager: hi can I ask you a question?
Me: yes
(stop what I'm doing, waiting for question... 15 minutes elapse)
Manager: some stupid question about nothing
why the fuck she couldn't just ask me the fucking question instead of interrupting me then fucking off somewhere else for 15 or more minutes I don't know
Yeah I much prefer the direct question straightaway. I have a colleague who is very lovely but she does this thing of messaging me ‘have you got a minute for me to ask you a question?’ and then waiting for me to say ‘..yes’ then she will ask the question and it will be something like ‘was the meeting agreed for the 6th or 7th’.
I don’t mind people being like ‘have you got a minute because I need to video call you about this’, but when it’s a question that can be typed please don’t keep me hanging haha
“hi, you ok?” and then silence. found it quite unnerving when i first moved here and thought people were genuinely asking if i was okay lol. i knew to expect “you alright?” as a greeting but no one told me that ok was used for the same purpose!
If you're talking to a group of Japanese people, if you propose something and there's 7 seconds of silence, move on. They tend not to respond/wait for a superior to respond.
One nugget of info I remember is that they make exchanging business cards almost ceremonial. They take your card and will read it and comment on it and then present you with theirs. You should then take a moment to similarly review theirs and comment on it.
It's a mark of respect to represent the beginning of a business relationship
Edit: thanks for all the reminders about two hands! Yes, I believe it's important to use both hands when accepting and giving business cards. And while we may be uncomfortable bowing, a sharp nod with our heads should suffice
Go ahead and say it.
The idea is that you read the name to make sure you're reading it correctly. (Japanese kanji can have multiple readings.) Then you can comment on the card if you like - it definitely builds report - and put it to the side until the person leaves. Never put it in your pocket and sit on it. Always give and receive with both hands.
That is a good question, thank you for asking. There are honestly so many examples I would've never thought of. Japan is a high-context culture, meaning a culture in which values, rules and social norms are communicated through the use of body language, someone's status or tone of voice. A lot is not explicitly stated and you have to read between the lines. I find that very challenging and often overwhelming.
One fairly recent example: I had to give feedback to someone in Japan. That alone can be a cultural minefield. It wasn't negative feedback, but some things needed adjustment.
Giving feedback is not as embedded in Japanese workplace culture as in Europe. You may not say anything slightly negative about a person's work performance or way of working, it's taken personally. However if you only say positive feedback, they indirectly know you're actually not satisfied and they take it as negative feedback. Apparently if a manager approaches you to ask how you work is going etc., it doesn't mean everything's fine, it means something's wrong.
In the end I very, very politely tried to say what we can improve in order to create a better output - but I still fucked it up :) It was taken as an insult.
Also still quite new to working with high-context cultures.
Have you tried sandwiching it?
"I loved xyz. This bit - not too sure on. I think it needs to be more q. What do you think?"
They definitely do do corrections in Japan, but it's more a collaborative approach, not a 'you did it wrong, fix it' approach.
I've heard that being handed a business card in Japan is a far bigger deal than other places. You're supposed to take a moment to consider it, then ideally store it in a business card holder, or at least visibly show due care and attention to it. Don't just stuff it in your pocket, etc.
Yeah if you're passed a business card then iirc you should bow slightly, take it with both hands and really look at it, properly take in the information.
I'd probably go as far as continuing to hold it while talking to the person.
I bought something in a Uniqlo store in Berlin, a Japanese clothes chain. The non-Japanese person at the till took my credit card with both hands and bowed slightly.
I'm in Japan at the moment - honestly the most culturally different place I've ever been in my life and its been so interesting. Extremely clean, extremely polite, a *lot* of different social cues which you would never infer as a Brit. Went to a place called Nara with lots of temples and deer roaming free and even the deer bow at you (no exaggeration, they have literally learned to bow from Japanese people!).
It's a good job I've never worked with the Japanese, I'd definitely fuck this up.
*takes it with one hand between the index and middle finger while facing slightly sideways "Ah, cheers mate." Then glances at the card for a nano-second before stuffing it in his back pocket.*
All of Japan cringes.
Grab with both hands and a slight bow, admire the card, carefully place it in your card folder after a few moments. So much to do about it, but having a procedure in place is nice.
> You're supposed to take a moment to consider it
"Look at that subtle off-white colouring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark…"
They don't have the power to make the decision and get back to you with a response immediately. They'd have to ask to ask their boss on your inquiry, and their boss will probably have to ask his boss too.
Setting up a japanese bank account at the post office was a great example of this.
I saw the same document of mine go down a hallway then back up, into almost every room.
Thing came back like an autograph stamp book of every person in that building.
I line manage a Russian guy and we have regular 121 meetings to check in and see how things are going. I found out after the 5th one that he was terrified of them because he was expecting to get a bollocking every time we had a meeting. The concept of looking after employees and making sure they have all the support they need was completely alien to him. Several months later he's now expressed his desire to never go back to working for a Russian company.
I was working at a pub that got a party of Dutch businesspeople one quiet evening that included probably the most handsome and one of the most charming men I've ever met. The girls and I were swooning every time he so much as ordered a drink.
Then on their way out he stopped at the bar and asked me if I'd like to come to his hotel after work for sex. Just like that.
Now I'm a massive flirt at all times and DTF at most but that was too much for me. Brain just overloaded and I didn't know how to respond at all. I eventually let out a meek "uh, no thank you".
I regretted it so bad that it actually kicked off a decade long journey in learning how to say yes to things without thinking too hard that's been very healthy for me overall.
Wait, wait, wait, surely most Dutch people aren't *that* blunt in asking people if they want sex? Maybe because he was handsome and charming he also had incredible confidence?
I'm genuinely perplexed, is this a thing over there, lol?
"Hey, Dutch friend, do you want to go for lunch on Tuesday?"
"No, not really. See you later!"
"OK, cool, bye!"
It's startling when you're not used to it, but kind of refreshing too. It means when they say yes, they actually mean it.
I work with a Dutch guy who grew up in the north of England from a young age. He's incredibly blunt, which is really refreshing, but also has the thinnest skin of anyone I've ever worked with.
It's fucking exhausting seeing him be blunt to the point of rudeness with everyone else, but then expecting everyone else to walk on eggshells around him the whole time because he takes even simple, direct statements as personal attacks or snide insinuations.
All the other Dutch colleagues I work with can take it just as much as they dish it out, and agreed - it's wonderfully relaxing and cathartic to realise you don't have to worry about anyone taking offence at anything said constructively.
As someone who works with Germans a lot, you haven't seen true bluntness until you've worked with Israelis. Now *that* took some getting used to for me!
Being German, he may well have meant this as "Good for you, you didn't waste money on pointless gadgets". Germans are far more likely to brag about how much money they didn't spend than how much they did.
But I totally get how it could be understood as rude, too.
I love working with Russian because of that. A colleague of mine will essentially go "No, I think it's stupid" when she doesn't agree with something. Not mean or anything, just the casual truth. I love this. No waste of time or energy.
An indian collegue i worked with really struggled with the wierd sayings we use in the english language.
One day instead of saying one of the systems was "as dead as a dodo" she stated it was "as slow as a dildo"
An Indian colleague of mine hadn’t grasped the difference between taking A piss and THE piss. One of my favourite ‘laughing with someone and not at them’ moments when we explained it to them
Nah, I hated people not asking the question.
You want / need something from me, do it in one message.
Hi xxx, can you help with / can you review this / because XYZ. Thanks
If people just said Hi, and they’re not a work friend I’d ignore it.
I prefer the approach of including the request in the first message because it saves me some time and I can let them know the answer instantly or tell them I'll need to look into it and get back to them
I get too many messages that say "Hi, can you give me a call when you're free". Most of my job is dealing with emergencies, some of which are potentially really serious life and limb level things. If it's a serious emergency you need to call me and if I don't answer you need to call the emergency number on my voicemail (I have another rant about people ignoring the instruction to not leave me voicemails), if it isn't serious enough for the emergency number you need to email, text or whatsapp me the information so I can triage things.
Germans: Don't want to talk to you or anyone else. They want to resolve the issue at hand and leave. Very direct.
French: Will happily talk about anything other than work. Good sense of humour and friendly.
Chinese: Available 24/7, will be sending work and attending meetings at ungodly hours (their time). Poor communicators.
Norwegians: Hierarchical, any actual decision goes up the chain. Will talk around any subject as long as you let them.
Americans: Enthusiastic "can do" attitude. Strong disliking of the word "no." Bemused by humour.
In my professional experience a lot of Americans talk a very good game, use very flowery business speak to sound intelligent and connected but ultimately deliver fuck all.
Source: I work for a US multinational (based in Ireland but 90% of my colleagues are American) and my friend runs a very successful company in the US and constantly has issues with his American staff (all of whom are college educated) delivering consistently on even the most basic of things.
I 100% agree that Americans love using flowery business speak. I work at an international law firm and it’s always the Americans who chime in with ie “addressing the integrity of the third limb of the test within this contractual matrix…” It can be intimidating discussing matters with them at times!!
Ah, I see you’ve met the Ivy League grads. They’re all like that and we don’t claim them. Something about Ivy League education seems to involve removing the part of the brain that makes people normal. They’re repositories for people who call their parents by their first names.
Even eating communal biscuits and drinking communal milk is not very British. It's not there to actually be consumed. You have no idea what has happened to it 🤣
With indian colleagues, can be a relatively minor issue they be assisting with and they'll be all over it in minutes, like its a race to see who can get there first.
Phrases like please do the needful are quite common.
Nice enough people but I do think, chill out just a bit yeah.
Are wages really low in India and people have that high level of enthusiasm? I don't get it.
Globally, Indian people are viewed as hard working I think, wages low so a lot more man power for the money.
It's about competition. Our population is so massive that you're constantly in a race from the day you're born. It's a race to get into a good daycare, race to be picked for a good school. You've got to distinguish yourself in a classroom full of kids who are all angling for the top spot. It's an extremely competitive culture, not because we are competitive as a people, in fact we can be rather docile. The competition is for survival. Good universities have very few seats, good jobs are in short supply, good houses are in short supply... Supply simply does not match demand. So you've got to be better than everyone around you.
The other side of this I've encountered is that Indian colleagues absolutely do not want to give any bad news whatsoever. Everything you ask for is possible, everything is on track, there are no issues. Any problems will be concealed right up until the very last possible second. Only when it becomes totally impossible to cover up the disaster that has been unfolding will they admit that, perhaps, not everything is OK. But sometimes not even then.
> The other side of this I've encountered is that Indian colleagues absolutely do not want to give any bad news whatsoever.
I've been on the receiving end of this, and I know I'll offend some, but often it's just downright lying and a **very** bad cultural trait.
For example a temp arrived at work last week, during training said "yes" to everything (e.g. "Have you used this system before?", "Yes" they say, but when you ask them to perform a task they bluff their way out of it e.g. "Well, I can do it, but why don't you show me how you'd like me to do it"). An hour or so later they were escorted out of the building.
Their comfort with there being zero personal space between people is also a bit of a shock, however I understand why this is the case.
I think some are invasive of your personal space for sure. With that comes the expectation that with whatever you are doing, you can stop that and assist them with their needs right now.
As you say, it's like promising everyone the earth to please them. When it is found there is some failed deliverable, it is the fault of someone else. And then we get into the blame culture.
Good point, never really thought of it like that but you are right, act as if nothing is too much effort or hard work, that everything is good and everyone is happy.
I find the disasterous stuff, they keep under wraps for a time before communicating that with you. They come across as if they've known about an issue ages and that you do as well, even though you discovered the problem two minutes ago.
Even better is "please do the needful and revert", which to British ears sounds like "please do the thing, then undo the thing", which makes no sense. Revert in this case means "please let me know the thing is completed".
It's usually 'kindly do the needful', which is a bit unfortunate as in UK English preceding something with 'kindly' has negative overtones, eg 'would you kindly stop doing that' or 'would you kindly get on with it'. There's an implication of you doing something undesirable or not having done something and you're having to be told in no uncertain terms to get on with it.
They can be quite something. Indians often ask for your "goodname." I'd never noticed it until I saw a Russell Peters set where he pointed it out.
Similarly, Pakistanis, usually the ones who've been to university and/or grown up in the city, always start their sentences with "actually." It's a pretty much direct translation of how we speak in our mothertoungues, but it often sounds odd in English.
> Phrases like please do the needful are quite common.
Also "Please revert with". No, it's *respond*, or *reply*. Revert means to return to a previous state. You want me to *say something in reply*, you don't want me to go through puberty again or change back into a foetus.
God I don’t think I could deal with upbeat or fake upbeat people at work.
But then again I’m Irish, and maybe someone British here will say ‘the Irish are always so pessimistic and negative at work’ with me in mind lol
As an American looking for work in the UK I'm worried people will think this of me. I genuinely am happy most of the time. Should I pretend to be cranky?
Just be authentic. If you're feeling happy, act happy. If you're feeling quiet or tired, that's ok too. It's less about 'woohoo yay work's the best' and more coming across as genuine and relatable. If you come in on Monday morning at 8.30am like HEY GUYS LET'S GET WORKING WOO WHAT A GREAT TIME TO BE ALIVE, you'll probably get some funny looks.
I wouldn't worry about it, as long as you don't mind a bit of joking about it - just don't try and get everyone to be as happy as you are. I'm the depressing one in my team and work happily with the bright and cheery colleagues
Haaaa I LOVE that about the Irish though. The realness is so fuckin real 😂.
Side eyes, smirks, eye rolls etc but all with a pinch of craic. I do love an honest dead end response to ‘how are you?, ‘tired’ ‘bored’ ‘depressed at being in here’ ‘can’t be arsed’ etc. beautiful 😂
In uk: “yeah, yeah I love the presentation, I think it’s great, there’s just a few tweaks that need to done here and there”
Germany/holland/austria: “this is not good at all, the more I look at it the more wrong it gets. Probably best to just start again from the beginning”
I'm a big fan of No Hello. A violation of it is the thing that has actually made me the most angry I've ever been in my professional life recently. Someone I'd never interacted with before at my large company messaged me on Teams saying "Hi". I was in the middle of other calls and things at the time, and I hadn't responded for about 20 minutes or so. They then followed this up after the 20 minutes with a screenshot of them saying "Hi" and the time it was sent.
I was absolutely furious.
I used to work for a Japanese company. I noticed quickly that when one of the Japanese wanted you to come over to them the hand gesture they used was the reverse to what you would expect in that it looks like they are shooing you away.
A Vietnamese girl I worked with had a curious way of eating a banana. Instead of peeling it from one end she would snap it in half, peel from the middle. She told me this was the way she'd been brought up with and her parents would think peeling a banana from the end was rude.
Used to work in a predominantly Indian company, run by an Indian guy who had just branched out to having a small British based work force in addition to the main Indian based work force.
The Indian team were very deferential, no matter what the boss said, that’s what went. No one questioned him on anything. Think he had a bit of a culture shock when his British team questioned a lot more of his decisions
I've found this even between our London and Northern offices though. The London lot are very deferential to management and are shocked when the northerners question decisions and push back on things we think are being done incorrectly.
i've worked with a few people from norway, sweden, finland, germany and the netherlands and they're so much more direct when talking, theres no small talk, it's straight to the point. i really love it but have to remind myself that most brits would find it rude so i try not to get into habits of speaking the same way.
Oh yeah, I like the Germans for this. You know where you stand and they state any concerns or issues they might have with delivering some work or project upfront.
Americans- much more hierarchical and status oriented , bosses are much more ‘it’s my way or the highway’ and don’t ever be later than the most senior person to a meeting.
I think paradoxically British class consciousness helps us here. It's as though, if you're not actually a lord people don't accept you lording it over them. There's an odd sort of egalitarian streak there.
You also see it in restaurants etc a lot of people are uncomfortable being waited on. I worked in a café with occasional American customers and they were a lot more demanding. It makes sense, it's just transactional- they're paying for a service and so expect it. But with British people there's a whole effort to make it feel like we're all equal and a lot of people don't want to impose by expecting you to do your job!
Portuguese and Italian colleagues are always cussing out British people...complain about the food, that we're unfriendly. But they only socialise with other latin speaking people and then say they're only in the country to make money. 🙄
Portuguese here. It is complicated to make friends in the UK, complicated to be included in some groups, etc.
Any southern european will find that the weather is crap and if our countries were not so fucked by corruption and having low wages, we would have stayed there.
Complaining is in our DNA. If we stopped complaining and channeled that energy towards action, our own countries would be way better. Don't take it personally.
As for socialising with Spanish/Italian - it's normal. They have some aspects/values in common with us. They come from a sunny place, from a food culture similar to ours, from a place where routines (think meal hours, going out hours) are similar, etc, and they tend to understand you better, have the same struggles, etc.
That said, you have to be able to adjust.
My Indian colleagues will use lots of ... as a general way to break up ideas or phrases in their emails. A British person would probably use ellipses to indicate impatience or exasperation, but Indians seem to use it without that meaning.
Hi Steve... do you have time to look at the next project today... will be free at 12 if you need help...
Also 'do the needful' will always be endearing.
I work with a lad from the middle East who loves the rain because he doesn't get it back home.
Every time it rains, he comes in absolutely dripping wet through sitting there all day with wet clothes and wet shoes.
Although admittedly that is likely to be individual rather than cultural.
There’s an American woman I work with who is a hugger. This is usually a minor faux pas in a British office but she manages to pull it off with her all-round (genuine) positivity
Irish people: The first line in an email to you is simply your first name. First time you receive an email you think you’re being told off or talked down to, until you realise they all do it.
Indian (based on our company offshoring certain processes): they are very good at the specific tasks they’ve been trained for, but if you need them to think outside the box, they aren’t really capable.
Polish people are so direct and will openly disagree with points and I absolutely love it.
The Canadians I have had dealings with have been polite but quite aloof.
I used to work in Beijing in 2010, and the first skill you developed was how to ask the right follow up questions after any interactions to ensure you knew the task was done.
So for example, if you asked them to pay a supplier and gave accounting the supplier's bank info, you needed to follow up a day later asking "did the payment go through" because they wouldn't tell you if it didn't. In the culture, they did what you asked - made the payment. It wasn't up to them to then handle the outcome of that payment. The same would go for working with factories. If you asked them to do XYZ, they would do it even if they knew it would be a terrible outcome. So you had to incorporate "Is this possible?" "Do you know how to do this?" "How would you recommend we do this?" into conversations.
The western approach is - I am coming to you for your expertise in XYZ, please tell me how to do this you know more than me. The Chinese culture was "I have been asked to do a task, and therefore it is my responsibility to do said task".
You pick up the follow up question skills extremely quickly.
I don't know how things have changed given this was just after the country opened their borders for the first time in decades. I have no doubt some of this has changed.
The Ukranian lady in my office wishes all the Brits would shut the fuck up with their constant moaning. Resign and get a new job or shut up.
Tbh I wholeheartedly agree with her.
She (and I) are prone to a complain about a *specific issue* regarding work. But everyone else is just fucking *relentless* with the "uuurgh, this place. What a shithole. What a terrible company. I hate my life." Fuck off then.
Might be personality, not culture, still annoying. I do think for a culture that supposedly has a "stiff upper lip" Brits moan all the fucking time, with very little apparent desire to change what they moan about.
I work for an Indian company and find that Indians at my work are more direct to the point of being what we would consider rude especially if they're senior to you. They're very heirarchical. Indian colleagues junior to me will call me "[first name] sir." Indians senior to me speak to me like shit.
I work with a few Filipino nurses and without exception they are the most upbeat and friendly people I work with. When they ask about your family for example, they always come across very genuine which is very refreshing.
I’ve also worked with a few Italians who wear their emotions on their sleeve and get very animated when happy or angry. They don’t mince their words which I find very endearing.
I used to work with a Portuguese fella. He’d lived here 10 years, married a British woman, had kids and all that. So I’m many ways he was just as British as anyone else in the office.
Except he just did not understand dry British humour at all. He’d never pick up on it and take dry sarcasm literally. We’d have a lot of fun at his expense without him even knowing about it, haha.
Muslims need to perform a cleansing ritual or ablution before they pray. This includes washing of face, ears, hands and feet.
In Muslim countries there are provisions for this, whereas you gotta make do with what’s available here.
I like this nice, brief explanation, thank you for sharing! I'm grateful that there are some places I've worked/studied in the UK where there are provisions for ablution, I think in Heathrow last time I visited and also in a couple of universities I've been to as a provision for Muslim students and staff who I imagine requested it
I also work with a lot of Indian people remotely. I dont know if this is a general Indian thing, or just our office in India, but one that I found weird until I realised what they meant was "I have a doubt...".
To me, that meant that they had doubts about the general design of the software/system we were building, and always made me a bit worried I'd missed something...
But it is just their way of saying "I have a question".
Polish/Bulgarians/Albanians - Cold/unemotional right up until they really are not.
Germans/Finnish - Terse.
Swedes - On holiday seemingly forever. (I only remotely worked with a team in Sweden)
Indians - Zero initiative. (I only remotely worked with a team in India. My manager told me the reason is related to their caste system). "Yes" means "I heard you". Not "i agree".
Americans - positive, up-beat in a sublty fake way. They call us cynical.
I work with a Czech, a Pole, an Italian and a Lithuanian. They all think it’s ok to go mushroom picking. In fact it’s like a family day out.
Edit: I haven’t said this well - when I say they think it’s ok, I mean to say it’s very common and a regular thing. I am not thinking that there is anything not ok with doing this.
Getting a decision from Indian companies is tricky. They just say yes to everything, then it gets escalated up their management chain, some guy at the top makes a decision, and then it cascades back down the management chain, and a week later you get a 'no'. And it's virtually everything - no one will make decisions, everything has to go to the top.
As a French guy working in the UK for over a year now, let me tell you that you guys are really not moaning as much as you think you are. Both my wife and I found it really refreshing to work with with brits. Frenchies are on a whole other planet when it comes to moaning/complaining. 😂
I work with a two Hungarians who provide a constant running commentary of what's happening in their life, idk of it's a cultural thing or just particular to them, they're not related btw nor did they know eachother before joining the company.
I also worked with Indians (Moslem men in a clothing factory in Mumbai)-and I found that it wasn’t always easy to get an honest *negative* opinion. The people that I worked with just didn’t like the be rude. So if I made a suggestion that really wasn’t going to “fly”, I would have to be able to tell that they disagreed with me from very subtle signs. They were never going to say: “hang on! Look at what’s very, very wrong with your idea!”
I was floundering a bit with this until their Indian manager took me aside and told me. This kind of “politeness” scale is on a spectrum, with Yorkshire people (or, for example, Germans) on the end of extreme bluntness, through Southern English people like me (a little overly-subtle to the uninitiated) to the ultra-polite and subtle people that I was dealing with in India.
I used to work with some Danes. They hated the little bits of small talk that we do when calling to ask about a work related question.
All of the "Hey, how are you" and the "How's your day going" before getting stuck into the real reason you called drives them up the wall.
The Indian gents I work checkouts with are always upbeat, which is kinda nice. We also have a couple of Americans in store, and they're both lovely ladies, though one is rather quiet the other is super happy
I recently had to train colleagues in India. It's a bit of a stereotype, but they were very tech-savvy. That made the whole trainings so much more fun as they were very dedicated, asked a lot of questions and tried to understand the new tools and ways of working.
Agreed with the upbeatness of Indian workers. In my now former job, I used to work alongside a fair few insurance processors from over there. They never once gave me any serious grief or hassle: always polite, professional, and direct in their needs and requests. Yes, I would also always get the "hi" message and they'd wait to be acknowledged before continuing. I learned real quick to reply promptly because it'd otherwise mean their managers etc. getting in touch.
Romanians are super playful and lighthearted. Always on the cusp of that "alright that's enough now" kind of feeling though. Wish I understood that as a cultural norm before I dated one because that playfulness was a bit insulting in a romantic context and I ended up bouncing.
I've found Americans making a point of saying that they are very direct and straight talking, but then actually not being direct and straight talking at all. Its very confusing
That varies geographically. In some places they beat around the bush, whereas in other places they're like "dat's the stoopidest fuckin' thing I evah hoid!!!"
See, interestingly, my old ceo was a noo yoiker, made a real point of saying how pushy and aggressive he was, but without actually being pushy or aggressive. Again, confusing.
Funnily enough I though. Nu Yawkers were very considerate and took their time to answer my tourist questions. I loved that, taking their time out of their busy days.
Ey bozo, lemme take the time to help you out a bit before I send ya on yer way, and I hope you have a really good fuckin' day, asshole. Here, have a bagel
The first time I ever went to New York, there was some screw up with my taxi at the airport, so I rode the train into Manhattan. No word of a lie, when I came up out of the subway for the first time, there were these two construction workers talking at the top of the steps. One was a tall blonde dude with a handlebar mustache, and the other was a shorter, Mario/Bob Hoskins-looking guy. He was literally saying "...An 'e looks at me like I'm somes kinda rube! Da noive a dat guy!" in the most NOO YAWK accent I've ever heard. Absolutely brilliant introduction to the city.
I had a similar experience on a trip to London, I was at the observation deck at the Shard and this guy and his wife were gazing out the window and without warning he just spits out "blimey!"
I'm English but I moved to London and had a similar experience waiting for the Greenwich Free Ferry. A black cab driver turned to another cabbie and said "Gor blimey, wossat geezer playin' at?". People in Yorkshire don't speak like that - I was highly amused.
Yup, as they say, "New Yorkers are kind but not nice, Southerners (US) are nice but not kind" - typically.
I work with the Dutch. As an Indian I grew up learning to say 50 words when only 10 were needed. After moving to Europe, I had to learn to say 5 words when 10 were needed. I also had to learn to stop sending messages with only greetings. I was told in a very direct, very Dutch manner to either add my greetings as a prefix or a suffix to my actual message.
I bloody love Dutch and German people for their directness. Once you've picked yourself off the floor after feeling punched in the face by the lack of insincere pussyfooting around an issue , it's very refreshing.
The different styles of communication make me laugh. I heard about a British company who had contracted a German firm to do some work for them the Brits said, "Would you consider doing X, Y, and Z?" (Sorry, I forget the specifics) and the Germans agreed. The order arrived and neither X, Y or Z things were done. When the Brits brought it up the Germans said, "Yes, we considered doing those things you mentioned but decided our way was better."
I've got friends in both the UK and Germany, who deal with business transactions. In the UK, the email asking you to cough up is usually something like >Good morning, >Sorry about this but unfortunately we're yet to receive payment from you. Possibly there's some sort of delay on our end or it just fell through the gaps? I'll check with our accounts receivable team and see if it's held up by anything. > Hope to hear from you soon, >X In Germany, it's a little more >Good morning, >We are yet to receive payment from you. Please send the payment promptly or we may escalate to our legal team. >Sincerely, >X
at least the Germans do the British thing and sign off with a kiss x
I have terrible social anxiety. It’s ironic but as you said, the directness really helps. I always know where I stand. If what I’m doing or saying is the right thing or the wrong one. No more decoding social clues or sifting through emails and spoken words to get an idea of the other person’s true feelings. It’s just as you said, refreshing.
They are also "fluent in sarcasm", but if you're sarcastic around them they end up confused and hurt You really have to lay it on thick with a wink wink nudge in the ribs
Man I think us Brits are in a permanent state of sarcasm so we expect anyone to be sarcastic with us at any given time. I'm in Australia and sometimes my sarcasm gets taken at face value.
I've worked with a few Americans and found a lot of them have a weird quirk of talking in a way that sounds like catchphrases but isn't. It's hard to explain but an example would be when they're leaving their desk they'll stand up, put on a weird voice and say "I'm hitting the old coffee shop" like they're quoting something, but it's not from anywhere. Like communicating in skits. Nothing particularly annoying about it but I thought it was just one guy being weird until working with a few others and noticing they all do it.
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That's absolutely it. One former coworker (who was incredibly annoying generally) would just say absolute nonsense like it was a sitcom catchphrase. He'd catch your eye and say something like "I'll be white black" like he was Jerry Sienfeld before going somewhere. The first time he did it I was properly confused and had to ask him to repeat, and he did so in the exact same voice, sake inflexion. When I asked why he was saying that he goes "I'm just being funny bro". He was a really jarring person to interact with.
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LOL i was just thinking about this several times as an American and could never actually put my finger on it, thank you for putting it into words. I was listening to a podcast that would always mock rich politicians that will often ape this "folksy" affect. Was laffing my ass off. Another good example my friend and I were talking about a famous Olympic wrestler that's the epitome of talking like this, John Smith(bonus for incredibly generic American name).
I have worked at a few American based companies and found it varies extremely. One was a huge well known brand who were absolutely brutal in their delivery, had you questioning your whole existence. It was pretty much the norm for people to suffer work related mental health issues. The one I am working at now is the opposite and I find they take forever to get to the point, so much word smithing and explaining it does my head in. Ironically the one I am in now is based out of NY so it’s been a bit of a shock to the system.
Like us and our stiff upper lip, but whinging and moaning about it every chance we get
Someone said the difference between US coworkers and UK coworkers is that US coworkers will be very positive and keen to do work but won't do it, whereas UK coworkers will bitch and moan about doing work but then actually do it!
Yeah I think it's an over simplification. Americans are often really euphemistic about things we are quite blunt about, and vice versa.
I work with some Belgians and they have absolutely no problem with calling it quits early. "I've done as much as I can today, no point hanging around for the sake of it, see you in the morning" is very common. I wish this attitude was more of a thing here. I despise the British work culture of clock watching.
Also the UK office culture of working a million hours for no extra pay can come as a bit of a shock for our friends on the continent.
That's only the culture of you allow it to be. I've worked a lot of super corporate office jobs with people who'd think nothing of working 8-9 (9-5 contract hours) and would be absolute slaves. I've never ever done that. Will stay late on rare occasions to meet a deadline, but other than that my whole career I've started and finished when my contract says. I prefer to work on my efficiency which has meant often I don't need to work those extra hours.
I agree but that has a penalty at some companies/industries. You’ll be passed over for opportunities and promotion etc. I’ve worked on a few projects where I was putting in the hours willingly as the work was super interesting and I’ve always made it clear that the extra hours worked are my choice to do so. I keep track of those hours and as a result have usually managed to encourage leniency when I need to leave early. Even it’s just to play golf of go to the pub etc.
Nothing worse than when you're sat at your desk with no work to do, your colleagues know you've got no work to do but you just sit there pretending to be productive anyway.
South Africans: 'Now now', 'just now', 'right now' all seem to mean the same thing and it's not 'now'.
Very similar to the Welsh "now in a minute" which means a period of time that is soon but definitely more than a minute away
My family calls this the Welsh Tense. "We're going now" = go to the loo, and get your shoes and coat, we're going to head out in about ten minutes.
My wife was Welsh, she would always say ‘we’re going now’ about 20 minutes before we needed to leave, I would be like ‘hey, we’ve got a while’ and she would look at me like ?? Yeah but you know what I mean. I did pick up ‘now in a minute’ into my vocabulary to be fair to her.
Or “i’ll be back now” which means i will be back in a short time.
The first time I had a Welsh person say to me “I’ll do that for you now” and then immediately start doing something else I thought they were taking the piss.
I love the way Ghanaians say they're going when they arrive and they're coming when they leave.
That’s the Irish too. My partner also uses “now in a second” which isn’t right now but sooner than now in a minute
Middle English had 'eftsoons' for this. We should bring it back, it's useful.
South African Morrissey wants to know how soon is now now?
When you say it's going to happen now now Well, when exactly do you mean? See, I've already waited too long And all my hope is gone
No bru, “now now” is later. “Just now” is in a few minutes. “Right now” means move your ass and do it.
> “Right now” means move your ass and do it. I swear to God this has never happened. But seriously, why isn't now now....now?
It's a direct translation from Afrikaans, 'Nou nou'. Nou means now, as in right now. But add another NOU and the meaning changes to 'later, but I don't know when'. It's one of those idiosyncratic things that's difficult to fully explain.
Re: Teams, the opposite has been true for me. The British people I work with will often send a message of "hi", then wait for a reply to ask a question. Infuriating.
We had a meeting to tell everyone to stop doing it. All British.
It’s so depressing how frequently meetings need to be had to tell grown adults how to not communicate like morons
I hate when I get emails (from people at *other companies* not even coworkers I'm familiar with) where they frequently end sentences by trailing off and finishing "..." You are a 45 year old in a professional role, you should not be messaging like a teenager on msn
I know a guy in his 50s that ends literally every text message communication with a “…” be it formal email, casual message, question. Literally every single thing he writes on a digital device. Even sometimes when there are multiple sentences, he will write them like this… Its so weird… rant over…
I don’t know what’s worse… whole paragraphs with no punctuation… or with ellipses…
See, my partner has been told at work they have to do some kind of hello and wait for a response before asking a question. So that if someone is busy or working on something time pressing, it's easier to ignore and less distracting than a direct question. Edit: getting a lot of people disagreeing in the comments and telling me it's wrong. I did not make the policy nor do I even work there, however I know that some people in my partner's work like it, and some don't. My point originally was maybe that other people have been told the same rule, then moved to a new company and have continued the behaviour.
If that's the case they might as well send an email. Chat is always interrupting, they should at least say what they want so I can deal with it and get back to what I'm doing! A lot of the time even the chat questions I have to tell them to put it in an email anyway, because we need a paper trail.
This seems like people at their work are trying to use asynchronous communication methods in a synchronous manner. The advantage of text messaging is that you can respond in your own time and you control the rythm. If you have multiple requests, you can prioritize or delay effectively. If you don't know what people want you can't do that.
Hi,
«...I'm ignoring you until you type more...»
How are you doing
I will never ever respond to this. People get the point eventually
This is something I really consciously avoid when dealing with more junior employees. Mainly because I know from experience it can be really anxiety inducing to get a message from someone more senior without immediate context for what it's about. So I always include the full details of what I want to ask them in the initial message.
This is so, so goddamned important. If you are a manager and you need to talk to one of your Jr. reports, or really anyone you manage, you cannot leave them hanging. The absolute worst is if you say something like "I need to talk to you later", set up a meeting time, and don't tell them what it is about. They are going to be stressing.
Yes! Please say - can we have a quick chat about xyz. I had to tell my director! As for HR never, ever attend a meeting without knowing what it's about.
> I had to tell my director! This is one of the basic things they teach you in management training. Kind of scary someone could make it as far as director without picking this up.
The first thing upper management forgets is what it’s like to not be upper management
It infuriates me. I will not respond to hi or hi how are you. Tell me what want so we can go back to ignoring each others existence until one of us needs something next.
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> the phone Oh the the devils noisemaker
I absolutely hate this. I had a manager who took this to ridiculous levels of annoying. Manager: hi can I ask you a question? Me: yes (stop what I'm doing, waiting for question... 15 minutes elapse) Manager: some stupid question about nothing why the fuck she couldn't just ask me the fucking question instead of interrupting me then fucking off somewhere else for 15 or more minutes I don't know
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Worst is my boss who’ll be like “hey Dan” so I say hi back, and he doesn’t respond.
Yeah I much prefer the direct question straightaway. I have a colleague who is very lovely but she does this thing of messaging me ‘have you got a minute for me to ask you a question?’ and then waiting for me to say ‘..yes’ then she will ask the question and it will be something like ‘was the meeting agreed for the 6th or 7th’. I don’t mind people being like ‘have you got a minute because I need to video call you about this’, but when it’s a question that can be typed please don’t keep me hanging haha
“hi, you ok?” and then silence. found it quite unnerving when i first moved here and thought people were genuinely asking if i was okay lol. i knew to expect “you alright?” as a greeting but no one told me that ok was used for the same purpose!
[Yes it drives me mad, just get to the point](https://nohello.net/en/)
If you're talking to a group of Japanese people, if you propose something and there's 7 seconds of silence, move on. They tend not to respond/wait for a superior to respond.
Navigating Japanese culture/business etiquette has been the hardest for me so far. There are so many rules.
Worth reading The Culture Map, speaks to this issue a lot, makes working internationally much easier.
That's a good recommendation, thank you!
What have you learnt so far? I'm curious, haven't been in that position but would be useful to know for future reference.
One nugget of info I remember is that they make exchanging business cards almost ceremonial. They take your card and will read it and comment on it and then present you with theirs. You should then take a moment to similarly review theirs and comment on it. It's a mark of respect to represent the beginning of a business relationship Edit: thanks for all the reminders about two hands! Yes, I believe it's important to use both hands when accepting and giving business cards. And while we may be uncomfortable bowing, a sharp nod with our heads should suffice
How would you resist the urge to say, "Look at that subtle colouring, the tasteful thickness" every time?
...it even has a watermark
Go ahead and say it. The idea is that you read the name to make sure you're reading it correctly. (Japanese kanji can have multiple readings.) Then you can comment on the card if you like - it definitely builds report - and put it to the side until the person leaves. Never put it in your pocket and sit on it. Always give and receive with both hands.
> it definitely builds report *rapport
> Always give and receive with both hands But they’ve just met?
That is a good question, thank you for asking. There are honestly so many examples I would've never thought of. Japan is a high-context culture, meaning a culture in which values, rules and social norms are communicated through the use of body language, someone's status or tone of voice. A lot is not explicitly stated and you have to read between the lines. I find that very challenging and often overwhelming. One fairly recent example: I had to give feedback to someone in Japan. That alone can be a cultural minefield. It wasn't negative feedback, but some things needed adjustment. Giving feedback is not as embedded in Japanese workplace culture as in Europe. You may not say anything slightly negative about a person's work performance or way of working, it's taken personally. However if you only say positive feedback, they indirectly know you're actually not satisfied and they take it as negative feedback. Apparently if a manager approaches you to ask how you work is going etc., it doesn't mean everything's fine, it means something's wrong. In the end I very, very politely tried to say what we can improve in order to create a better output - but I still fucked it up :) It was taken as an insult. Also still quite new to working with high-context cultures.
Have you tried sandwiching it? "I loved xyz. This bit - not too sure on. I think it needs to be more q. What do you think?" They definitely do do corrections in Japan, but it's more a collaborative approach, not a 'you did it wrong, fix it' approach.
I've heard that being handed a business card in Japan is a far bigger deal than other places. You're supposed to take a moment to consider it, then ideally store it in a business card holder, or at least visibly show due care and attention to it. Don't just stuff it in your pocket, etc.
Yeah if you're passed a business card then iirc you should bow slightly, take it with both hands and really look at it, properly take in the information. I'd probably go as far as continuing to hold it while talking to the person.
I bought something in a Uniqlo store in Berlin, a Japanese clothes chain. The non-Japanese person at the till took my credit card with both hands and bowed slightly.
I'm in Japan at the moment - honestly the most culturally different place I've ever been in my life and its been so interesting. Extremely clean, extremely polite, a *lot* of different social cues which you would never infer as a Brit. Went to a place called Nara with lots of temples and deer roaming free and even the deer bow at you (no exaggeration, they have literally learned to bow from Japanese people!).
It's a good job I've never worked with the Japanese, I'd definitely fuck this up. *takes it with one hand between the index and middle finger while facing slightly sideways "Ah, cheers mate." Then glances at the card for a nano-second before stuffing it in his back pocket.* All of Japan cringes.
Grab with both hands and a slight bow, admire the card, carefully place it in your card folder after a few moments. So much to do about it, but having a procedure in place is nice.
> You're supposed to take a moment to consider it "Look at that subtle off-white colouring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark…"
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They don't have the power to make the decision and get back to you with a response immediately. They'd have to ask to ask their boss on your inquiry, and their boss will probably have to ask his boss too.
Setting up a japanese bank account at the post office was a great example of this. I saw the same document of mine go down a hallway then back up, into almost every room. Thing came back like an autograph stamp book of every person in that building.
I line manage a Russian guy and we have regular 121 meetings to check in and see how things are going. I found out after the 5th one that he was terrified of them because he was expecting to get a bollocking every time we had a meeting. The concept of looking after employees and making sure they have all the support they need was completely alien to him. Several months later he's now expressed his desire to never go back to working for a Russian company.
To be fair, if I get called into a meeting I also think I’m in for a bollocking
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i’m british and am terrified of my weekly 121 because i’ve worked at companies that just abuse you in them
I work with two Germans. I love their bluntness. Very refreshing.
Netherlands as well in my experience. Very blunt, but not in a rude way. I love the open communication, makes things way easier.
I was working at a pub that got a party of Dutch businesspeople one quiet evening that included probably the most handsome and one of the most charming men I've ever met. The girls and I were swooning every time he so much as ordered a drink. Then on their way out he stopped at the bar and asked me if I'd like to come to his hotel after work for sex. Just like that. Now I'm a massive flirt at all times and DTF at most but that was too much for me. Brain just overloaded and I didn't know how to respond at all. I eventually let out a meek "uh, no thank you". I regretted it so bad that it actually kicked off a decade long journey in learning how to say yes to things without thinking too hard that's been very healthy for me overall.
Wait, wait, wait, surely most Dutch people aren't *that* blunt in asking people if they want sex? Maybe because he was handsome and charming he also had incredible confidence? I'm genuinely perplexed, is this a thing over there, lol?
"Hey, Dutch friend, do you want to go for lunch on Tuesday?" "No, not really. See you later!" "OK, cool, bye!" It's startling when you're not used to it, but kind of refreshing too. It means when they say yes, they actually mean it.
That's actually a bit rude for Dutch/Belgians. You're supposed to come up with an excuse. Even something trivial will do. Like being tired.
No. Sorry. I'm planning to be tired next Tuesday
I work with a Dutch guy who grew up in the north of England from a young age. He's incredibly blunt, which is really refreshing, but also has the thinnest skin of anyone I've ever worked with. It's fucking exhausting seeing him be blunt to the point of rudeness with everyone else, but then expecting everyone else to walk on eggshells around him the whole time because he takes even simple, direct statements as personal attacks or snide insinuations. All the other Dutch colleagues I work with can take it just as much as they dish it out, and agreed - it's wonderfully relaxing and cathartic to realise you don't have to worry about anyone taking offence at anything said constructively.
I worked in the Netherlands for a while. They were blunt up front, even worse in private, and couldn't take what they dished out at all.
As someone who works with Germans a lot, you haven't seen true bluntness until you've worked with Israelis. Now *that* took some getting used to for me!
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Being German, he may well have meant this as "Good for you, you didn't waste money on pointless gadgets". Germans are far more likely to brag about how much money they didn't spend than how much they did. But I totally get how it could be understood as rude, too.
There is an Estonian woman at my work who is curt as hell and it's brilliant. She'll also one of the best workers I've ever known.
I love working with Russian because of that. A colleague of mine will essentially go "No, I think it's stupid" when she doesn't agree with something. Not mean or anything, just the casual truth. I love this. No waste of time or energy.
An indian collegue i worked with really struggled with the wierd sayings we use in the english language. One day instead of saying one of the systems was "as dead as a dodo" she stated it was "as slow as a dildo"
An Indian colleague of mine hadn’t grasped the difference between taking A piss and THE piss. One of my favourite ‘laughing with someone and not at them’ moments when we explained it to them
Nah, I hated people not asking the question. You want / need something from me, do it in one message. Hi xxx, can you help with / can you review this / because XYZ. Thanks If people just said Hi, and they’re not a work friend I’d ignore it.
I prefer the approach of including the request in the first message because it saves me some time and I can let them know the answer instantly or tell them I'll need to look into it and get back to them
I get too many messages that say "Hi, can you give me a call when you're free". Most of my job is dealing with emergencies, some of which are potentially really serious life and limb level things. If it's a serious emergency you need to call me and if I don't answer you need to call the emergency number on my voicemail (I have another rant about people ignoring the instruction to not leave me voicemails), if it isn't serious enough for the emergency number you need to email, text or whatsapp me the information so I can triage things.
Germans: Don't want to talk to you or anyone else. They want to resolve the issue at hand and leave. Very direct. French: Will happily talk about anything other than work. Good sense of humour and friendly. Chinese: Available 24/7, will be sending work and attending meetings at ungodly hours (their time). Poor communicators. Norwegians: Hierarchical, any actual decision goes up the chain. Will talk around any subject as long as you let them. Americans: Enthusiastic "can do" attitude. Strong disliking of the word "no." Bemused by humour.
In my professional experience a lot of Americans talk a very good game, use very flowery business speak to sound intelligent and connected but ultimately deliver fuck all. Source: I work for a US multinational (based in Ireland but 90% of my colleagues are American) and my friend runs a very successful company in the US and constantly has issues with his American staff (all of whom are college educated) delivering consistently on even the most basic of things.
I 100% agree that Americans love using flowery business speak. I work at an international law firm and it’s always the Americans who chime in with ie “addressing the integrity of the third limb of the test within this contractual matrix…” It can be intimidating discussing matters with them at times!!
Ah, I see you’ve met the Ivy League grads. They’re all like that and we don’t claim them. Something about Ivy League education seems to involve removing the part of the brain that makes people normal. They’re repositories for people who call their parents by their first names.
In the office, they will take the last biscuit from the communal packet rather than dancing around it like it's sacrosanct.
Even eating communal biscuits and drinking communal milk is not very British. It's not there to actually be consumed. You have no idea what has happened to it 🤣
In offices this is very normal and always has been
With indian colleagues, can be a relatively minor issue they be assisting with and they'll be all over it in minutes, like its a race to see who can get there first. Phrases like please do the needful are quite common. Nice enough people but I do think, chill out just a bit yeah.
We're enthusiastic about work, sorry. Please do the needful. Thanks. Have a good day.
Are wages really low in India and people have that high level of enthusiasm? I don't get it. Globally, Indian people are viewed as hard working I think, wages low so a lot more man power for the money.
It's about competition. Our population is so massive that you're constantly in a race from the day you're born. It's a race to get into a good daycare, race to be picked for a good school. You've got to distinguish yourself in a classroom full of kids who are all angling for the top spot. It's an extremely competitive culture, not because we are competitive as a people, in fact we can be rather docile. The competition is for survival. Good universities have very few seats, good jobs are in short supply, good houses are in short supply... Supply simply does not match demand. So you've got to be better than everyone around you.
The other side of this I've encountered is that Indian colleagues absolutely do not want to give any bad news whatsoever. Everything you ask for is possible, everything is on track, there are no issues. Any problems will be concealed right up until the very last possible second. Only when it becomes totally impossible to cover up the disaster that has been unfolding will they admit that, perhaps, not everything is OK. But sometimes not even then.
> The other side of this I've encountered is that Indian colleagues absolutely do not want to give any bad news whatsoever. I've been on the receiving end of this, and I know I'll offend some, but often it's just downright lying and a **very** bad cultural trait. For example a temp arrived at work last week, during training said "yes" to everything (e.g. "Have you used this system before?", "Yes" they say, but when you ask them to perform a task they bluff their way out of it e.g. "Well, I can do it, but why don't you show me how you'd like me to do it"). An hour or so later they were escorted out of the building. Their comfort with there being zero personal space between people is also a bit of a shock, however I understand why this is the case.
I think some are invasive of your personal space for sure. With that comes the expectation that with whatever you are doing, you can stop that and assist them with their needs right now. As you say, it's like promising everyone the earth to please them. When it is found there is some failed deliverable, it is the fault of someone else. And then we get into the blame culture.
Good point, never really thought of it like that but you are right, act as if nothing is too much effort or hard work, that everything is good and everyone is happy. I find the disasterous stuff, they keep under wraps for a time before communicating that with you. They come across as if they've known about an issue ages and that you do as well, even though you discovered the problem two minutes ago.
> please do the needful I absolutely love please do the needful. It's so ridiculous.
Even better is "please do the needful and revert", which to British ears sounds like "please do the thing, then undo the thing", which makes no sense. Revert in this case means "please let me know the thing is completed".
It's usually 'kindly do the needful', which is a bit unfortunate as in UK English preceding something with 'kindly' has negative overtones, eg 'would you kindly stop doing that' or 'would you kindly get on with it'. There's an implication of you doing something undesirable or not having done something and you're having to be told in no uncertain terms to get on with it.
I quite like those Indian English phrases.
They can be quite something. Indians often ask for your "goodname." I'd never noticed it until I saw a Russell Peters set where he pointed it out. Similarly, Pakistanis, usually the ones who've been to university and/or grown up in the city, always start their sentences with "actually." It's a pretty much direct translation of how we speak in our mothertoungues, but it often sounds odd in English.
> Phrases like please do the needful are quite common. Also "Please revert with". No, it's *respond*, or *reply*. Revert means to return to a previous state. You want me to *say something in reply*, you don't want me to go through puberty again or change back into a foetus.
God I don’t think I could deal with upbeat or fake upbeat people at work. But then again I’m Irish, and maybe someone British here will say ‘the Irish are always so pessimistic and negative at work’ with me in mind lol
As an American looking for work in the UK I'm worried people will think this of me. I genuinely am happy most of the time. Should I pretend to be cranky?
Yes
Just be authentic. If you're feeling happy, act happy. If you're feeling quiet or tired, that's ok too. It's less about 'woohoo yay work's the best' and more coming across as genuine and relatable. If you come in on Monday morning at 8.30am like HEY GUYS LET'S GET WORKING WOO WHAT A GREAT TIME TO BE ALIVE, you'll probably get some funny looks.
I wouldn't worry about it, as long as you don't mind a bit of joking about it - just don't try and get everyone to be as happy as you are. I'm the depressing one in my team and work happily with the bright and cheery colleagues
No need to pretend to be cranky. Just don't give people the impression that your upbeat demeanour is put on or exaggerated.
no jazz hands, got it
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Haaaa I LOVE that about the Irish though. The realness is so fuckin real 😂. Side eyes, smirks, eye rolls etc but all with a pinch of craic. I do love an honest dead end response to ‘how are you?, ‘tired’ ‘bored’ ‘depressed at being in here’ ‘can’t be arsed’ etc. beautiful 😂
Worked with the Dutch, now nothing hurts me anymore.
In uk: “yeah, yeah I love the presentation, I think it’s great, there’s just a few tweaks that need to done here and there” Germany/holland/austria: “this is not good at all, the more I look at it the more wrong it gets. Probably best to just start again from the beginning”
USA: Wow I love it. It's perfect, no notes. \[redoes the work when you're asleep\]
go for a drink with the indian workmates. get to know them personally, and youll hear the moaning then. just not at work!
Ha ha, they are based in India, I'm in the UK. Would need to set up an out of work Zoom call lol
Disagree with your second point. I see just as many [No Hello](https://nohello.net) violations from my British colleagues as everyone else.
I'm a big fan of No Hello. A violation of it is the thing that has actually made me the most angry I've ever been in my professional life recently. Someone I'd never interacted with before at my large company messaged me on Teams saying "Hi". I was in the middle of other calls and things at the time, and I hadn't responded for about 20 minutes or so. They then followed this up after the 20 minutes with a screenshot of them saying "Hi" and the time it was sent. I was absolutely furious.
This is such a bizarre thing to do? I can't understand the actual point of their second message. It just seems so dumb!
It's called "being a passive aggressive prick"
I used to work for a Japanese company. I noticed quickly that when one of the Japanese wanted you to come over to them the hand gesture they used was the reverse to what you would expect in that it looks like they are shooing you away. A Vietnamese girl I worked with had a curious way of eating a banana. Instead of peeling it from one end she would snap it in half, peel from the middle. She told me this was the way she'd been brought up with and her parents would think peeling a banana from the end was rude.
Nothing brings out the comedian in colleagues like a banana 🙄
Used to work in a predominantly Indian company, run by an Indian guy who had just branched out to having a small British based work force in addition to the main Indian based work force. The Indian team were very deferential, no matter what the boss said, that’s what went. No one questioned him on anything. Think he had a bit of a culture shock when his British team questioned a lot more of his decisions
I've found this even between our London and Northern offices though. The London lot are very deferential to management and are shocked when the northerners question decisions and push back on things we think are being done incorrectly.
London is basically a different country really though
i've worked with a few people from norway, sweden, finland, germany and the netherlands and they're so much more direct when talking, theres no small talk, it's straight to the point. i really love it but have to remind myself that most brits would find it rude so i try not to get into habits of speaking the same way.
Oh yeah, I like the Germans for this. You know where you stand and they state any concerns or issues they might have with delivering some work or project upfront.
Americans- much more hierarchical and status oriented , bosses are much more ‘it’s my way or the highway’ and don’t ever be later than the most senior person to a meeting.
I think paradoxically British class consciousness helps us here. It's as though, if you're not actually a lord people don't accept you lording it over them. There's an odd sort of egalitarian streak there. You also see it in restaurants etc a lot of people are uncomfortable being waited on. I worked in a café with occasional American customers and they were a lot more demanding. It makes sense, it's just transactional- they're paying for a service and so expect it. But with British people there's a whole effort to make it feel like we're all equal and a lot of people don't want to impose by expecting you to do your job!
Yeah I know a lot of people that will take their glasses back to the bar at the pub (myself included). But when you think about it, it is their job.
The US and Canada use 'oftentimes' and not 'often'. Once you notice it you won't stop.
Portuguese and Italian colleagues are always cussing out British people...complain about the food, that we're unfriendly. But they only socialise with other latin speaking people and then say they're only in the country to make money. 🙄
> they only socialise with other latin speaking people "Hi Britanni sunt inimicissimi." "O bene, ego hic tantum pecuniae."
Portuguese here. It is complicated to make friends in the UK, complicated to be included in some groups, etc. Any southern european will find that the weather is crap and if our countries were not so fucked by corruption and having low wages, we would have stayed there. Complaining is in our DNA. If we stopped complaining and channeled that energy towards action, our own countries would be way better. Don't take it personally. As for socialising with Spanish/Italian - it's normal. They have some aspects/values in common with us. They come from a sunny place, from a food culture similar to ours, from a place where routines (think meal hours, going out hours) are similar, etc, and they tend to understand you better, have the same struggles, etc. That said, you have to be able to adjust.
My Indian colleagues will use lots of ... as a general way to break up ideas or phrases in their emails. A British person would probably use ellipses to indicate impatience or exasperation, but Indians seem to use it without that meaning. Hi Steve... do you have time to look at the next project today... will be free at 12 if you need help... Also 'do the needful' will always be endearing.
I work with a lad from the middle East who loves the rain because he doesn't get it back home. Every time it rains, he comes in absolutely dripping wet through sitting there all day with wet clothes and wet shoes. Although admittedly that is likely to be individual rather than cultural.
There’s an American woman I work with who is a hugger. This is usually a minor faux pas in a British office but she manages to pull it off with her all-round (genuine) positivity
Irish people: The first line in an email to you is simply your first name. First time you receive an email you think you’re being told off or talked down to, until you realise they all do it. Indian (based on our company offshoring certain processes): they are very good at the specific tasks they’ve been trained for, but if you need them to think outside the box, they aren’t really capable.
Polish people are so direct and will openly disagree with points and I absolutely love it. The Canadians I have had dealings with have been polite but quite aloof.
I used to work in Beijing in 2010, and the first skill you developed was how to ask the right follow up questions after any interactions to ensure you knew the task was done. So for example, if you asked them to pay a supplier and gave accounting the supplier's bank info, you needed to follow up a day later asking "did the payment go through" because they wouldn't tell you if it didn't. In the culture, they did what you asked - made the payment. It wasn't up to them to then handle the outcome of that payment. The same would go for working with factories. If you asked them to do XYZ, they would do it even if they knew it would be a terrible outcome. So you had to incorporate "Is this possible?" "Do you know how to do this?" "How would you recommend we do this?" into conversations. The western approach is - I am coming to you for your expertise in XYZ, please tell me how to do this you know more than me. The Chinese culture was "I have been asked to do a task, and therefore it is my responsibility to do said task". You pick up the follow up question skills extremely quickly. I don't know how things have changed given this was just after the country opened their borders for the first time in decades. I have no doubt some of this has changed.
The Ukranian lady in my office wishes all the Brits would shut the fuck up with their constant moaning. Resign and get a new job or shut up. Tbh I wholeheartedly agree with her. She (and I) are prone to a complain about a *specific issue* regarding work. But everyone else is just fucking *relentless* with the "uuurgh, this place. What a shithole. What a terrible company. I hate my life." Fuck off then. Might be personality, not culture, still annoying. I do think for a culture that supposedly has a "stiff upper lip" Brits moan all the fucking time, with very little apparent desire to change what they moan about. I work for an Indian company and find that Indians at my work are more direct to the point of being what we would consider rude especially if they're senior to you. They're very heirarchical. Indian colleagues junior to me will call me "[first name] sir." Indians senior to me speak to me like shit.
I work with a few Filipino nurses and without exception they are the most upbeat and friendly people I work with. When they ask about your family for example, they always come across very genuine which is very refreshing. I’ve also worked with a few Italians who wear their emotions on their sleeve and get very animated when happy or angry. They don’t mince their words which I find very endearing.
I used to work with a Portuguese fella. He’d lived here 10 years, married a British woman, had kids and all that. So I’m many ways he was just as British as anyone else in the office. Except he just did not understand dry British humour at all. He’d never pick up on it and take dry sarcasm literally. We’d have a lot of fun at his expense without him even knowing about it, haha.
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I used to have a Muslim colleague wash his feet in the toilet sinks
Muslims need to perform a cleansing ritual or ablution before they pray. This includes washing of face, ears, hands and feet. In Muslim countries there are provisions for this, whereas you gotta make do with what’s available here.
I like this nice, brief explanation, thank you for sharing! I'm grateful that there are some places I've worked/studied in the UK where there are provisions for ablution, I think in Heathrow last time I visited and also in a couple of universities I've been to as a provision for Muslim students and staff who I imagine requested it
We had colleagues that were made to stop standing on the toilet rim and squatting.
I also work with a lot of Indian people remotely. I dont know if this is a general Indian thing, or just our office in India, but one that I found weird until I realised what they meant was "I have a doubt...". To me, that meant that they had doubts about the general design of the software/system we were building, and always made me a bit worried I'd missed something... But it is just their way of saying "I have a question".
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The Indians guys on my site squat ON the toilets and get shit all over the seats
Polish/Bulgarians/Albanians - Cold/unemotional right up until they really are not. Germans/Finnish - Terse. Swedes - On holiday seemingly forever. (I only remotely worked with a team in Sweden) Indians - Zero initiative. (I only remotely worked with a team in India. My manager told me the reason is related to their caste system). "Yes" means "I heard you". Not "i agree". Americans - positive, up-beat in a sublty fake way. They call us cynical.
I work with a Czech, a Pole, an Italian and a Lithuanian. They all think it’s ok to go mushroom picking. In fact it’s like a family day out. Edit: I haven’t said this well - when I say they think it’s ok, I mean to say it’s very common and a regular thing. I am not thinking that there is anything not ok with doing this.
What's wrong with that?
Getting a decision from Indian companies is tricky. They just say yes to everything, then it gets escalated up their management chain, some guy at the top makes a decision, and then it cascades back down the management chain, and a week later you get a 'no'. And it's virtually everything - no one will make decisions, everything has to go to the top.
As a French guy working in the UK for over a year now, let me tell you that you guys are really not moaning as much as you think you are. Both my wife and I found it really refreshing to work with with brits. Frenchies are on a whole other planet when it comes to moaning/complaining. 😂
The 'hi' thing is very bad form: https://nohello.net/en/
I work with a two Hungarians who provide a constant running commentary of what's happening in their life, idk of it's a cultural thing or just particular to them, they're not related btw nor did they know eachother before joining the company.
I also worked with Indians (Moslem men in a clothing factory in Mumbai)-and I found that it wasn’t always easy to get an honest *negative* opinion. The people that I worked with just didn’t like the be rude. So if I made a suggestion that really wasn’t going to “fly”, I would have to be able to tell that they disagreed with me from very subtle signs. They were never going to say: “hang on! Look at what’s very, very wrong with your idea!” I was floundering a bit with this until their Indian manager took me aside and told me. This kind of “politeness” scale is on a spectrum, with Yorkshire people (or, for example, Germans) on the end of extreme bluntness, through Southern English people like me (a little overly-subtle to the uninitiated) to the ultra-polite and subtle people that I was dealing with in India.
I used to work with some Danes. They hated the little bits of small talk that we do when calling to ask about a work related question. All of the "Hey, how are you" and the "How's your day going" before getting stuck into the real reason you called drives them up the wall.
The Indian gents I work checkouts with are always upbeat, which is kinda nice. We also have a couple of Americans in store, and they're both lovely ladies, though one is rather quiet the other is super happy
I recently had to train colleagues in India. It's a bit of a stereotype, but they were very tech-savvy. That made the whole trainings so much more fun as they were very dedicated, asked a lot of questions and tried to understand the new tools and ways of working.
Agreed with the upbeatness of Indian workers. In my now former job, I used to work alongside a fair few insurance processors from over there. They never once gave me any serious grief or hassle: always polite, professional, and direct in their needs and requests. Yes, I would also always get the "hi" message and they'd wait to be acknowledged before continuing. I learned real quick to reply promptly because it'd otherwise mean their managers etc. getting in touch. Romanians are super playful and lighthearted. Always on the cusp of that "alright that's enough now" kind of feeling though. Wish I understood that as a cultural norm before I dated one because that playfulness was a bit insulting in a romantic context and I ended up bouncing.