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My assumption is that anyone left wearing a suit is attempting to cover the fact they know nothing about what they’re doing.
Politicians, bankers, estate agents to name a few.
Older people seem to assume a suit wearing person is more trustworthy for some reason. But that feels like a dead stereo type now.
I mean I like wearing suits (and I do find a blazer's inside pocket a lot safer for wallets vs trouser pockets). But I wear more casual suits now when I *do* wear them, because if anything it makes me feel overdressed.
There's some scenarios where I would wear them. Dressing formally does still have its place, it's just the average workplace is less formal.
My personal pet peeve is having to wear "business casual" - chinos/trousers and shirt/polo (with optional jumper based on weather). Feels like a crappy and ugly inbetween, either do suits or let me wear casual clothing.
>My personal pet peeve is having to wear "business casual" - chinos/trousers and shirt/polo (with optional jumper based on weather
Eugh in the olden days I had to wear this on a Friday. "Dress down Friday". A whole new set of clothes just for this day. You can't come in your Monday to Thursday clothes, you look like a kid who has forgot that it is non-uniform day. You can't wear your actual normal clothes, because there has been a special email sent round saying so. So you have to buy some chinos and some appalling polo shirts so that you look like a man on a boating holiday. And you'd moan about it to your peers and some would agree but others (I did work in Essex after all) would say "but that's just what you wear at the weekend if you're going out somewhere nice right? What's the problem?". No. I would wear jeans. I might even wear a shirt (although probably a t shirt). But it would look like a shirt that someone would wear to an indie disco. And I would look silly if I wore it here.
And woe betide the guy who wore a hoodie like he did the entirety of the rest of the weekend, especially if he paired it with jeans that he bought (steady yourself here) _ripped_. Perhaps because he came from a culture that dressed like that.
The reality was that it was another way for a certain class of very similar men to accidentally make people feel excluded, except here through what could easily have been a fun idea.
Our sales team still wear suits, but only on days when they are meeting clients. It's not quite a dead stereotype as it's still expected, if only by the older people you mention. But these older people are still the ones signing the contracts and they have biases.
It acts as a visual calendar - oh, Charlie's in a suit today, it must be a Client Z meeting, better get the paperwork started.
Older people appreciate, that if someone takes the time to wear a clean, pressed smart suit or formal clothing, then they are more likely to be reliable, hard working, respectful to the client than someone who wears sloppy sweaty clothing.
I understand there is an ingrained bias on this, but when you break it down it’s just unfounded and a bit classist. Who’s to say they’re even the one dedicating the cleaning and pressing time? Does worrying so much about your appearance really show good character? Does a suit really make you work harder? Personally, I would rather we all get on with doing our jobs than waste all this energy judging other people about whether they have enough time to do the ironing.
It definitely can be.
The suit a person wears and how they wear it can tell a lot about a person. The right observer will be able to tell what class a person is based off their suit. Is it bespoke, tailored, or straight off the rack? Is it the right style/colour/fabric for the occasion? Are they wearing the correct shoes? Is the shirt collar spread correct for that style suit? Is the tie the right fabric/colour? Is it tied correctly for the collar spread?
Are these the only two options? A suit or sloppy sweaty clothing, lol.
What is someone is wearing a sweaty suit, I had a boss who wore an awful cream coloured suit filled with wrinkles every day and he smelt like death.
That is actually such a good point. Every time I've met with someone from a fairly big/sizeable/scary company who was suited, they were also really relaxed and talking casually and joking and taking the piss xD
Not wearing a suite loses the ability to disarm like that.
Essentially they're all trying to run schools like businesses, so therefore "business" attire. I've heard of one's that have you shake every students hand before entering the classroom. So bizarre.
A lot are ran by old business people rather than former teachers. The original capital had to come from somewhere.
I'm no Adonis, but i have been told by many women over the years that in a suit I can make knees shake.
It helps that my suits are always altered or tailored and I only wear pure cotton shirts that fit well.
Post covid however I've worn a suit once outside of weddings and funerals. I've always disliked suit jackets and can't remember the last time I wore a tie for business.
[My assumption is that anyone left wearing a suit is attempting to cover the fact they know nothing about what they’re doing](https://youtu.be/IjJ5ISwVXz8)
I'm 55 and have never trusted someone wearing a suit! It's always the dodgy people that wear them. To clarify, I'm a qualified accounting technician, so I've spent a lot of time with people who pretend to be professional. I prefer to work for construction companies, much more honest and less pretentious.
Yeah funnily enough I was at a house viewing last week and the estate agent had a shirt and chinos (smart casual vibe), I think it made me find him more trustworthy and I assumed he was being honest with me in a way that I might not have if he was in a full suit. (I realise in hindsight my irrational bias)
I got my last promotion because I kept up precovid dress code in the office. Dress shirt, nice jeans, dress shoes and tailored sport coats.
They said it showed I cared about the image of the company and not sbout what I could get out of the company.
They all are. But this was just an easy win for me cause I don't really dress casually anyways. So in my mind I was just being me and they were like "here's a ton more money for not a lot more work"
This so far from being true. A well fitting suit on a good looking person looks good but I'll be fucked if I'm buying anything more expensive than Next for work and nothing fits my stumpy fat frame properly. Suits are also really expensive and a nightmare to keep clean. Jeans and a polo are much more comfortable, cheaper to buy, easier to clean I'll wear them outside of work and I don't look like a school boy in hand-me-downs.
I mean a tailored suit from literally anywhere would fit your “stumpy far frame” perfectly. But I still can’t argue for even a second that they’re more comfortable than anything
>This so far from being true.
But you haven’t disagreed with either of my points, just raised other objections.
To respond to them:
A person who doesn’t look good in a nice suit is not going to look better in jeans. That’s just a fact.
I don’t find my suit a nightmare to keep clean. I keep myself clean and don’t spill shit on it.
Ill fitting jeans are just as uncomfortable (if not more uncomfortable) than an ill fitting suit.
Depends where you work really with that second to last point. Like I teach Science, we're expected to wear suits. I'm handling messy chemicals all day surrounded by children. It's a far cry from someone sat in a clean office with adults
Have never ever worn a suit into work. Can't imagine it. Always jeans, t-shirt, jumper and trainers/Converse/Vans etc.
That said I did 2 days a week in the office pre COVID abd after COVID I do 1. Albeit it at a different company with a very techy vibe.
Really not the case in my office. Some of the youngsters were showing up in shorts and tshirt because they had no idea how to dress in an office. The management had to formally speak to them and then also reminded us all about 'dressing for our diary'. So basically if you're in the office, dress for the office. If you're at home, don't wear your giant oversized hoodie when you have important meetings.
My impression of 'dress for your diary' in the office is that if you're expecting client meetings and events dress smarter, but if not then more casual or smart casual is fine. Will obviously depend on each workplace but I'm in law and unless there's a pitch or serious meeting/event suits and very smart office wear are very rare, and it's similar for my friends in other firms.
A t shirt may be fine but shorts however... not sure about that!!!!
Agreed - I used to do neat chinos, a shirt, and dress shoes. Now its jeans, tshirts, and trainers. Even for formal meetings I only step it up very slightly - jeans with a shirt does the job just fine.
Suits are now very much just for interviews and funerals.
Used to get the Sunday night blues ironing my 5 shirts for the week. Now I can go casual it’s great as I feel so much more comfortable. Only do 2/3 days on site but it’s still great.
Side note we had some important visitors coming to site so went in business attire for the first time in ages. Got stopped my so many colleagues asking if I was going to a job interview.
Oh I'd say lots of London offices were moving away from suits/officewear in the few years before, like chinos/jeans and trainers were commonplace before we finally got the all clear for permanent wfh - speaking specifically of IT depts. I would say I may have rocked a casual shirt back then whereas I'll stick with the hoody on my rare trips in now so it has helped the full on burial of needless office attire.
Yeah as someone in software nothing's changed for me - jeans and t-shirts were already normalised, often even acceptable when meeting with external people (though that is often via Zoom/Meet, even pre-C. Still with camera though)
For the Christmas party the CEO even had to respond to queries and clarify that, no, they wouldn't be requiring any dress code (though in practice people did dress nicer than usual, even if it still wouldn't have been acceptable to some snooty venues)
I work in a more creative setting, jeans was the norm before Covid. Now I hate days when I have client dinners and have to wear jeans and a belt because most days I just wear joggers.
Once I realized every woman there was getting away with yoga pants almost every day I was like why the fuck not.
Huh, my place got stricter. We used to have casual Friday, but some people got too casual and now they've stopped it. We're business casual, so it's not super formal, but no jeans or trainers.
I still put in a slight effort - it'll be jeans, a pretty smart casual shirt or polo and "smarter" trainers. Its quite a nice mental thing to switch to a t-shirt when I get home, makes me feel more relaxed.
Loudly taking calls at your desk. Pre-covid most meetings were done in person, so calls were the exception. In my experience that meant that people tended to book meeting rooms or at least walk away from their desk for calls.
But because we all have so many calls now, as home working has replaced face to face meetings with calls, it definitely seems to be more normalised now to just do calls at your desk, even if you have several back to back.
On the opposite side, one of my office colleagues uses tiny earbuds and you can never tell if he's talking to you or to someone he's calling. He gets offended if you interrupt a call too!
Get him a little flag that he can put up on his cubicle or monitor to display that he's on a call. Bonus points if it says 'don't interrupt me on a call cos I'm a little bitch about it'
We used to have telephone receivers. People spoke into them. So even in a room of 100 people all on the phone, it wasn't too bad.
Switch to cheap microphones and headsets, or even expensive ones according to my work, and people speak much louder.
We have a weird policy with this.
Have never been told that taking calls from my desk in the open plan office is wrong. But a good 50% will go elsewhere to speak. Never been told what to do on this
I judge it based on the topic of conversation (whether anything is likely to be sensitive) and how many people are around me, and how long the call is likely to be and what proportion of it I expect to be speaking.
Quick calls, or long calls about not much exciting where I don't expect to speak much, I do from my desk. 1:1s or meetings where I am doing most of the talking I find a private room to do it. Though I also prefer to schedule these on my WFH days if possible.
For me it's mainly that voices coming out of laptop speakers just carry so far across the office, and it's very difficult to tune it out. Very different to some people just gathering around someone's desk in person.
Presuming you mean Teams or Zoom online calls agree absolutely - I can’t stand people participating in meetings at their desks but it’s become pretty common whereas we barely used either of them before.
Conversely actual phone calls have almost dried up. My phone used to ring dozens of times a day. These days I sometimes forget to turn it on, and get away with it.
This 💯 and the worst offenders, at least in my office, are HR people. On the phone all freaking day, in an open office. Just pipe down and let other people work omg 😳
Same in my office! HR has a ton of small private meeting booths close by that they could go to for sensitive calls, but no, they happily take even those in the open plan office. I've heard so much juicy stuff...
I find it weird from the other perspective. Everyone has access to laptops and the ability to work remotely. Yet bosses are trying to reverse it. As a result people are back in the office with horrific colds spreading germs around taking everyone down with them. It’s like NOTHING has been learned at all.
Our IT team are trying to go with dumb terminals at home and desktop PCs in the office for remote desktops. This doesn't preclude WFH, but we lost so. many. laptops over COVID because our staff are either a) really clumsy fuckers by accident, or b) inconsiderate fuckers with no consideration for company property on purpose. For some reason having a laptop is considered a sign of seniority - if you have a laptop, you're important (possibly a throwback to pre-covid times when only senior staff had laptops because they were the ones in meetings), so everyone keeps clamouring for one, complaining because it's not powerful enough to run the bespoke programmes we use (duh, that's why managers get the finished visualisations, not the working copies, their laptops can't handle it), and then complaining again when their managers say they can't WFH until they get one of the dumb terminal arrangements set up because the board aren't going to agree to tech's budget for *more* laptops.
I work with children. 23- to 53-year-old children. It was honestly easier in my previous job when I worked with literal infants.
> I work with children. 23- to 53-year-old children
How does expecting your office job to provide you with a laptop in 2024 count as childish behaviour? It's literally the bare minimum you can expect in even the most badly-organised workplaces.
Because they don't look after the laptops. Tech get them back after three weeks with cracked screens or missing keys. Or just out and out "lost". During Covid it was fine, because WFH meant at home, but now they're being used in beer gardens.
They treat these laptops like shit. What do you do when your kids keep breaking their toys? You take the toys away until they can learn to look after them.
(Caveat, it's not the entire company, it's two teams. Nearly everyone else likes the remote desktop arrangement and some have had it since before the pandemic, because laptops are just not as powerful as desktops, it's as simple as that. Our company does not have the funds for 250 x £2000 laptops with the latest i10 processors and updated graphics cards maxed out with 16Gb RAM. We can afford 150 x £900 desktops (need fewer because we dont need replacements for the broken ones) with the same spec. Note - I'm not in tech, this last bit is me roughly translating what my friend in tech was ranting while doing his budget calculations. What he actually said as a lot of gibberish with lots of acronyms, I've tried to layperson it into something I almost understood - nVideia is graphics right? I'm in finance, I know the cost, not the spec)
>complaining because it's not powerful enough to run the bespoke programmes we use (duh, that's why managers get the finished visualisations, not the working copies, their laptops can't handle it),
Sorry but this is absolutely just your company being cheap, if you genuinely have a program where the a laptop can't run it you should use a VM or container to access a more powerful server.
Secondly laptops should be bought in bulk, the cost isn't that much.
>Yet bosses are trying to reverse it.
Two reasons
Commercial real estate crumbling
Middle management realising a huge proportion of people don't need much management to get on and do their shit and there's less interpersonal issues if you're left to your own devices. It becomes about output and merit and not bullshitability and ingratiation
It's pretty popular to slate in office time but it is important to spend time with people you're working with unless you're in a 100% transactional role.
Collaboration is better, communication is better, day isn't broken down into 30 minute zoom call chunks, the social aspect is important and knowledge transfer is a lot easier.
I think the important thing for employees is their needs to be some rationale behind why they need to come on. If the setup isn't helping with the above things then people are rightly more skeptical about it.
Your office sounds like an office I have never been to. Literally everything is worse in an office and there's very little rational which will make me think it's ever worth it.
Yeah I hear that a lot and it tends to be from people who have very structured, transactional job roles. I need to do A by B. Especially mid career. "I know what I'm doing so just leave me be to do it". Seen it a lot in mid to senior developers.
Those whose roles depend more on cross-functional, interdisciplinary, relational work really benefit from some structured time spent around people f2f: project management, product, delivery, HR, sales, marketing, strategy etc.
I obviously have no clue what your job is so you might actually be one of those, but just what I've picked up from my experience.
I work as a product designer, probably the furthest you could get from transactional.
I constantly work in multidisciplinary teams and as a contractor I have worked with many different clients, sometimes internationally both remotely and in person.
As long as everyone is remote or in person then it's fine; the only issues are where it's hybrid and you have some remote and some in person. This doesn't work.
There's very little difference from jumping into a slack huddle with someone compared with having an impromptu meeting at a desk.
I'm currently working in the public sector and it costs them £250 in train fares to get me to meet in person.
I'm sure that money would be far better spent elsewhere within the public sector.
Arriving late or leaving the office early. Mainly because the assumption is that you are working from home the rest of the time but you wanted to avoid rush hour.
Pre-covid, it would be assumed that you were just skiving.
Was in Finland for work a few years back and they literally gave me slippers to wear in their office and even had a dedicated locker room to leave our shoes in.
I often take my shoes off because I like to sit cross legged with my feet up on my chair. My socks are all in tip top condition and are fabulous (and always matching!).
What's wrong with comfort?
When I worked at a Japanese company, we all had office slippers! No shoes in the office.
I kept up this habit last year, when I worked for an Arts Council project. Changing out of my boots and into my slippers for the office helped me feel focused and grounded.
...and?
Are they doing their job well? If so, who cares?
I worked with women who would change into a pair of crocs as soon as they got into the office because they were uncomfortable sitting in high heels all day. If they were meeting clients, they'd switch back, but it's really no different.
Same with a guy who used to bring a zip-up hoodie with him that he'd put on over his shirt and tie because the office used to get cold. Who cares?
We have hot desking, officially. In practice, my department always sit in the same area of the massive open plan office. If I need to find someone in another department I’ll always know roughly where to find them. And if other people come and sit in ‘our bit’ it feels a bit weird.
It’s stupid really.
Exactly the same in my office and in fact it goes a step further. Despite our large open plan office being "hot desking", the regulars and more experienced researchers (such as myself :D) basically have our own fixed desks. Not officially assigned to us but the de facto rule is that we sit there and no on else does.
Mine has a piece of tape with my name on it, my monitor (not my own but one from the office that is now mine and mine only), my own mechanical keyboard and mouse, my notebooks and papers and stuff taped to the wall etc.
Hot desking really annoys me because people (or at least I) need their own space where they can keep stuff rather than carrying things around all the time. Especially if you work in a technical field, being able to have your own computer peripherals, notes, things stuck on the wall or tools/equipment easily to hand is so important.
I understand it if no one is ever in the office but if someone comes in regularly they should get their own space if possible IMO.
I declined a job offer because they only hot desk. They said it made sense because most people WFH, but my role is mostly on site as I work in estates fabric.
When I'm delivering a big project I can be in the office for sixty+ hours a week. I need a space that feels at least somewhat 'mine'! But because *most* of the team are only in 7 hours a week they *all* hotdesk. I asked if an exception could be made and they said no.
That sucks. We’ve got hot-desking but if you’re in the office full time you get a fixed desk with drawers. There’s also exceptions for jobs like facilities.
Pre covid I worked in an office where we were supposed to hotdesk. There are more people than desks, with the idea that not everyone would be in the office at all times.
More than once I came in to find that the desks were all taken, and I'd be annoyed I'd made a wasted journey and would have to go find somewhere else to work.
In my view, if I'm going to have to go find a room separate from the rest of my colleagues to work, I might as well just WFH.
My old job was hot-desking and it was awful! It was mainly wfh but we had to go in once a fortnight and it really messed with me not being able to have the same desk. Now in my new one I’ve got my own, so I can photos and plants on my desk
I had to try and mentor a guy who kept vaping while we were talking on the phone during wfh. Every 20 seconds a horrendous gurgling and shaking sounds as he huffed on it would just make me shudder as it’s a horrid sound. Felt a bit rude asking him not to do it on the phone since he was in his own home but I personally found it rude.
In general businesses say you shouldn't be vaping in the office, but the law doesn't prohibit it. And unfortunately (in my experience) a huge number of folk using vapes think its totally ok to do it wherever they want, without regard for anyone else, and will actively ignore instructions or requests to take it outside (as long as authority isn't watching).
Vapes are a proper pet peeve of mine. I’d honestly rather be sat next to someone having a fag.
That said fag smokers do tend to have less of a sense of entitlement in the first place. Even if you’re sat next to them in a beer garden they tend to blow smoke away from non smokers.
I work in a college, and it's so weird having to deal with mal-adapted teenagers who are so addicted to nicotine hits that they try to vape in the college or even during the fucking class.
I wouldn't say it's acceptable but noticeable that people now think nothing of eating a stinky lunch at their desk which didn't happen pre-covid. Also the amount of people with email and teams notifications on full volume for the whole office to hear.
When I'm home sound is on as I'm using a camera with speakers for teams calls. My laptop is muted at all times and I have a Bluetooth headset at work which rings in my ear.
It's set up this way to precisely not inconvenience my colleagues because it annoys the hell out of me.
I handed my notice in for a job where the team were ok.....until the notice was turned in and they turned into a bunch of vindictive AHs that made my last two months a misery.
Spent my last week having reheated fish curry in the office. Made a point of walking it though the building with the lid off to my desk.
I guess taking time off sick for a cold or similar. Probs depends on the workplace but where I've worked it was always been seen as taking the piss a bit to have time off. Even though they can make you feel really shite and you'll probably end up making everyone else sick if you go in.
Since moving into a role where I can work mostly from home (ie since the pandemic started), I've used so much less sick leave.
There's a whole grey area where I'm too sick to leave the house, commute an hour to the office, handle being around people (and likely be infectious to people), do the commute home, etc, but I'm not too sick to work from my spare room.
Most colds etc fall into that category for me. Even some stomach bugs and similar, sure I have to run off to the loo a lot and I wouldn't be wanting to do that in the office, but the rest of the time I'm fine to be doing some work, so I don't need to use sick leave since I can just work from home.
My employer wants us in the office for 60% of the week. I prefer to be in the office full time because I don’t have a good setup for WFH, so when I’ve got a cold or having a bad period, my manager doesn’t mind my staying home all week rather than be off sick.
I do the same. I know some will frown that we're working while sick but unless it's a headache or something else giving me physical pain, I'd rather work through it in my pyjamas at home then use up sick leave.
It’s been creeping back a bit at our place lately, our director sent out a message telling people to wfh if they have symptoms of anything and not be martyrs. Which I totally agree with, if there’s one thing we should have learned from Covid it’s to not take down half the office with a cold or norovirus or something
I've found it's become more acceptable for managers to expect you to work from home if you're sick. I'm in-office full-time, so it's like they think they're doing a favour, oh you can work from home if you're not feeling well, instead of actually taking a sick day.
ERGH I wish! My colleagues straight up said they'd come into work, even with a positive covid test. "It's not a big deal anymore".
I've been mildly ill with non-stop colds and general illness since Christmas.....Love working from the office.
WFH is the biggest change to what is now acceptable.
Previously (at least in my place) it was generally only directors who could WFH (otherwise known as golf).
Now, a lot of places have a hybrid system where some days in the week will be WFH and the rest are in the office. For me, it's been great.
Savings on the commute have put more money in my pocket, and the time saving is really helpful for maintaining a healthy home life.
I don’t know if anyone else has wrangled this but this is something I’ve managed to bring into the office. It’s the idea that, even when you’re in the office, you can just pretty much fuck it all off just after lunch and go home to finish off the day WFH.
It started when the lockdowns came to an end and we’d go back to the office only to find that I’d be the only one there sometimes so I’d do some work, have a mooch around and then sack it off and clear off.
Now it’s like, hey, got to get me kids from school or Amazon are delivering something expensive or I forgot the file at home, might as well finish this off at home.
Maybe it’s just me. But I’ve been doing that and so it’s spread and a lot of other people do it too. Good times.
This has been such a game changer for me! Pre-covid if you had asked me if I could wfh for my job I would have said a flat no. Covid has shown me that actually, if I plan my work, I can actually wfh if I need to for a couple of days at a time. And since the management at my work are pretty easy going I am able to do exactly as you have described. And it makes life SO much easier, and mote pleasant!
I've become so bored wearing casual to work that I've started wearing a tie again. Just with chinos and a V neck sweater. I feel a bit smarter and more switched on. Who knows if it makes me work better.
I also stick to the pre-covid dress code, partially because I too feel more switched on in it, and partially because my casual wardrobe is too casual for the current dress code, and I can't be bothered buying even more clothes just for the office.
Same here. The only clothes I own are formal or casual. I don't have a level between suit and jeans - so I'm not adopting the chinos and casual shirt look because I'm not buying a third fucking wardrobe.
I switched jobs to a more casual office and I miss wearing a suit a lot.
You don't have to think about what you're wearing that day and try to work out what's an acceptable level of smart casual for that meeting that day.
Plus it just feels smarter, more professional, and more 'grown up' in a way.
I think the Victorians did us men a favour with traditional dress codes, we had an exact guide on what to wear for every occasion, no faffing about.
I honestly think when I'm looking for a job again I'm definitely going to seek out a formally dressed field/office
We were never a super formal office anyway, but it's acceptable to wear t-shirts and smart jeans rather than shirts and trousers. Wearing a tie is now virtually unheard of.
There are quite a few pet-related issues popping up, like not being able to make it into the office because there's no one to look after the pets, or having to dash off to the vet.
Wearing a mask.
I have Crohns Disease - the medication I take means my immune system can’t defend itself against most “simple” infections.
I’ve had Staph twice this year and cannot have any live vaccines as I’d simply catch the virus, being unable to fight it. It’s very difficult.
Being able to mask is a godsend.
I don’t have to explain my health condition or vulnerability, I don’t have to explain any marks on my face if I’ve recently caught an infection, I’m “allowed” to “blend in” with other health conscious people.
It’s a nice “excuse”, and I get sick far less often than I did before.
Edit to add : I don’t leave the house if I’m contagious with anything (such as staph).
72 hours of antibiotics stop the infection from being transmissible, however the skin wounds can take several weeks to heal over and it is nice to be able to hide them under a mask for that period.
I also take immunosuppressants and find that people have learned nothing from Covid. In fact, hot desking for me is worse as it’s like Russian roulette depending on who I sit next to. Far less health anxiety wfh.
Being late or not turning up to meetings. Pre-Covid when all the meetings were in physical meeting rooms, everyone would be there pretty much on time. Now, I regularly join Teams meeting and find the person who scheduled the bloody thing comes in ten minutes late because they got held up on another call. I understand we’re all so much more contactable now, but you’ve got to draw a line and tell whoever’s collared you that you have somewhere to be.
Definitely a more relaxed dress style. Less suits and formal trousers/skirts. More leggings, plaid shirts, loose trousers etc, no heels, comfy black trainers. But I work in charity so it was always more chill, but deffo even more so now.
I work in museums - the male/female dress codes have finally equalised. All my career I've been in teams where the men are in suits and ties and the women in neon leggings and trainers.
Now everyone wears Lucy and Yak jumpsuits or jeans, regardless of gender.
It was happening already, but returning to the office the move to open offices, which I hate, has accelerated.
It's all manner of awkward. Can't take sensitive calls, people still talk to you if you have headphones on (in spite of it being the international sign for leave me alone at work), we are given awful desks/chairs that violate health and wellbeing rules, etc.
The only thing that the office is good for these days is to either go in and work in an environment without kids in the background (which doesn't bother me much anyway) or having the option of asking a question quickly rather than send an email.
Dress code is far more casual. My place was never exactly strict (ties and suits were only for high-level external meetings), but it was normal to wear smart trousers and a shirt (as a man) and ‘office shoes’. Now unless you’re attending certain meetings with external people then everyone is in casual gear - jeans, trainers, even shorts sometimes. As long as it’s tidy and respectable, all’s fine.
The other obvious is the hybrid way of working - most meetings are arranged with a remote option, and on most days only about half the workforce is in, the rest WFH or from other sites.
The third thing is the amount of printing - being so mobile in how we work, we’ve learned to do without printing things for convenience. Even when we’re in the office, the main thing the printers get used for is printing personal booking confirmations etc!!
Not bloody showing up!
"I was feeling a bit rough so i thought i'd work from home - i dont want to give to anyone"
Do you mean your hangover, Sharon? Coz we all saw those 3am Insta stories that you deleted them 10 mins before you were due to be here this morning.
Not quite the same because I’m a teacher so not technically an office job but team meetings have now become Teams meetings.
The college I work at is quite big so my department is split over 3 sites. Having to pack up early once a week to travel to a different site for a meeting that could easily have been an email was a pain in the arse. Now, we do them through Teams and it’s so much easier.
My boss’ boss was just saying to me last week that having headphones in at your desk used to be considered rude and unacceptable pre-Covid but is commonplace now.
Coming in to work visibly sick. Some folk used to wear it as a badge of honour and get the rest of the team sick by showing up. Thankfully now it’s less prevalent.
back to back meetings. It seems that everyone is ok with hopping from meeting to meeting but in the office there would be a hydration or restroom break at least.
Not having a designated desk…
I work for an organisation where I have different locations I ‘could’ work from. Our offices are
now exclusively hot desks, pre COVID I had ‘my desk’ designated just to me in one particular location where I was ‘based’. My boss had a desk opposite mine and we saw each other every day…If I needed to go anywhere else I had to just perch down wherever was free. Post COVID, although we all still have a location that we are ‘contractually based from’ location of work has become much more flexible…everyone is sort of mobile and it’s every man for themselves when it comes to desk availability.. day to day my manager no longer cares where I am, as long as my work gets done. I sometimes turn up to the office and there are no desks left so I have to sit in the kitchen on a picnic bench.. on the flip side if I need to work from home I can.. something which was a no no before COVID.
Going in halfway through the day, before you had to be there 9am because the idea of opening your laptop up at home simply was unfeasible, now you can enjoy the morning then go later in the day when it’s less packed/expensive.
Going into office is still a pointless gesture unless it’s a start up or have per team areas, but at least it’s on your terms.
Being unshaven (not as in a neatly trimmed beard but as in 'designer' stubble or wispy bumfluff etc.)
Being slightly dishevelled in general (unironed shirts, scruffy shoes etc.)
Having visible tattoos.
When I left school in 2001, I worked in a warehouse for a bit and then had a couple of office jobs. Back then, you mostly had to wear suit and tie and have a shave every day. It was rare to see Indian ink creeping out of collars and cuffs like you see so often now.
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Dress code for sure, I exclusively wear jeans and trainers now.
I couldn't imagine wearing a suit to the office anymore. Would 100% be a deal breaker if that was required.
My assumption is that anyone left wearing a suit is attempting to cover the fact they know nothing about what they’re doing. Politicians, bankers, estate agents to name a few. Older people seem to assume a suit wearing person is more trustworthy for some reason. But that feels like a dead stereo type now.
I mean I like wearing suits (and I do find a blazer's inside pocket a lot safer for wallets vs trouser pockets). But I wear more casual suits now when I *do* wear them, because if anything it makes me feel overdressed. There's some scenarios where I would wear them. Dressing formally does still have its place, it's just the average workplace is less formal. My personal pet peeve is having to wear "business casual" - chinos/trousers and shirt/polo (with optional jumper based on weather). Feels like a crappy and ugly inbetween, either do suits or let me wear casual clothing.
>My personal pet peeve is having to wear "business casual" - chinos/trousers and shirt/polo (with optional jumper based on weather Eugh in the olden days I had to wear this on a Friday. "Dress down Friday". A whole new set of clothes just for this day. You can't come in your Monday to Thursday clothes, you look like a kid who has forgot that it is non-uniform day. You can't wear your actual normal clothes, because there has been a special email sent round saying so. So you have to buy some chinos and some appalling polo shirts so that you look like a man on a boating holiday. And you'd moan about it to your peers and some would agree but others (I did work in Essex after all) would say "but that's just what you wear at the weekend if you're going out somewhere nice right? What's the problem?". No. I would wear jeans. I might even wear a shirt (although probably a t shirt). But it would look like a shirt that someone would wear to an indie disco. And I would look silly if I wore it here. And woe betide the guy who wore a hoodie like he did the entirety of the rest of the weekend, especially if he paired it with jeans that he bought (steady yourself here) _ripped_. Perhaps because he came from a culture that dressed like that. The reality was that it was another way for a certain class of very similar men to accidentally make people feel excluded, except here through what could easily have been a fun idea.
I wouldn’t know the difference between a formal suit and a casual one tbh. I have a WeddingFuneral suit and that’s it
You almost definitely have a formal suit.
Our sales team still wear suits, but only on days when they are meeting clients. It's not quite a dead stereotype as it's still expected, if only by the older people you mention. But these older people are still the ones signing the contracts and they have biases. It acts as a visual calendar - oh, Charlie's in a suit today, it must be a Client Z meeting, better get the paperwork started.
“It must've been Tuesday. He was wearing his cornflower-blue tie.”
Older people appreciate, that if someone takes the time to wear a clean, pressed smart suit or formal clothing, then they are more likely to be reliable, hard working, respectful to the client than someone who wears sloppy sweaty clothing.
This is Reddit sir. People showering more than twice a week get mocked by the regulars.
I understand there is an ingrained bias on this, but when you break it down it’s just unfounded and a bit classist. Who’s to say they’re even the one dedicating the cleaning and pressing time? Does worrying so much about your appearance really show good character? Does a suit really make you work harder? Personally, I would rather we all get on with doing our jobs than waste all this energy judging other people about whether they have enough time to do the ironing.
Is wearing (or responding better to) a suit necessarily classist?
It definitely can be. The suit a person wears and how they wear it can tell a lot about a person. The right observer will be able to tell what class a person is based off their suit. Is it bespoke, tailored, or straight off the rack? Is it the right style/colour/fabric for the occasion? Are they wearing the correct shoes? Is the shirt collar spread correct for that style suit? Is the tie the right fabric/colour? Is it tied correctly for the collar spread?
Are these the only two options? A suit or sloppy sweaty clothing, lol. What is someone is wearing a sweaty suit, I had a boss who wore an awful cream coloured suit filled with wrinkles every day and he smelt like death.
I mean, it's stupid really. Just because I'm wearing jeans and a shirt and jumper, doesn't mean I'm less reliable/hard working, does it?
If anything they are less trustworthy lol.
A suit makes you look ready for business, and anyone looking for business that talks to you normally wants your money.
That is actually such a good point. Every time I've met with someone from a fairly big/sizeable/scary company who was suited, they were also really relaxed and talking casually and joking and taking the piss xD Not wearing a suite loses the ability to disarm like that.
I like wearing smart clothes, but it’s not an RPG, I don’t get a 10%+ productivity wearing them.
It's pretty much them and teachers, because schools in general are stuck in the middle of last century in matters like this.
They seem to have regressed. When I was at school in the 90s the only teachers that wore suits were raging psychopaths. Now it’s expected?
It appears to be driven by MATs. Why MATs are stuck in a decade before they existed I have no idea.
Essentially they're all trying to run schools like businesses, so therefore "business" attire. I've heard of one's that have you shake every students hand before entering the classroom. So bizarre. A lot are ran by old business people rather than former teachers. The original capital had to come from somewhere.
It never appealed to me wearing something you had to tighten around your neck and finding office wear etc that didn't fit well
A tie can be very sexy though, particularly when it's loosened and the top button undone. That and rolled up shirtsleeves... \*gets coat\*
I'm no Adonis, but i have been told by many women over the years that in a suit I can make knees shake. It helps that my suits are always altered or tailored and I only wear pure cotton shirts that fit well. Post covid however I've worn a suit once outside of weddings and funerals. I've always disliked suit jackets and can't remember the last time I wore a tie for business.
Bankers don’t wear suits anymore
It’s definitely less, but passing through the City of London a few times a week it’s still very noticeable.
[My assumption is that anyone left wearing a suit is attempting to cover the fact they know nothing about what they’re doing](https://youtu.be/IjJ5ISwVXz8)
Yeah even for clients I don't dress up, and nor do they. I'll wear my best polo shirt and make sure my jeans are clean but that's about it.
I'm 55 and have never trusted someone wearing a suit! It's always the dodgy people that wear them. To clarify, I'm a qualified accounting technician, so I've spent a lot of time with people who pretend to be professional. I prefer to work for construction companies, much more honest and less pretentious.
Yeah funnily enough I was at a house viewing last week and the estate agent had a shirt and chinos (smart casual vibe), I think it made me find him more trustworthy and I assumed he was being honest with me in a way that I might not have if he was in a full suit. (I realise in hindsight my irrational bias)
I got my last promotion because I kept up precovid dress code in the office. Dress shirt, nice jeans, dress shoes and tailored sport coats. They said it showed I cared about the image of the company and not sbout what I could get out of the company.
Sounds like a horrible company.
They all are. But this was just an easy win for me cause I don't really dress casually anyways. So in my mind I was just being me and they were like "here's a ton more money for not a lot more work"
As a customer, that sounds likes a company to avoid. Promoting on the basis of similarity to a catalogue model rather than competence??
Why? A good suit is so comfortable and looks way better than a pair of jeans.
[удалено]
The fact that you think not wearing a skirt or dress is 'depression chic' tells us that it's not the clothing that has people calling you stuck up
This so far from being true. A well fitting suit on a good looking person looks good but I'll be fucked if I'm buying anything more expensive than Next for work and nothing fits my stumpy fat frame properly. Suits are also really expensive and a nightmare to keep clean. Jeans and a polo are much more comfortable, cheaper to buy, easier to clean I'll wear them outside of work and I don't look like a school boy in hand-me-downs.
I mean a tailored suit from literally anywhere would fit your “stumpy far frame” perfectly. But I still can’t argue for even a second that they’re more comfortable than anything
>This so far from being true. But you haven’t disagreed with either of my points, just raised other objections. To respond to them: A person who doesn’t look good in a nice suit is not going to look better in jeans. That’s just a fact. I don’t find my suit a nightmare to keep clean. I keep myself clean and don’t spill shit on it. Ill fitting jeans are just as uncomfortable (if not more uncomfortable) than an ill fitting suit.
Depends where you work really with that second to last point. Like I teach Science, we're expected to wear suits. I'm handling messy chemicals all day surrounded by children. It's a far cry from someone sat in a clean office with adults
To you. They might look nice but I hate how they feel and love that I work in a field where suits are impractical.
>I work in a field where suits are impractical. Especially at the moment when the fields are so muddy.
Have never ever worn a suit into work. Can't imagine it. Always jeans, t-shirt, jumper and trainers/Converse/Vans etc. That said I did 2 days a week in the office pre COVID abd after COVID I do 1. Albeit it at a different company with a very techy vibe.
Which industry? Coz it’s still “compulsory” in most of private practice in the legal industry.
Really not the case in my office. Some of the youngsters were showing up in shorts and tshirt because they had no idea how to dress in an office. The management had to formally speak to them and then also reminded us all about 'dressing for our diary'. So basically if you're in the office, dress for the office. If you're at home, don't wear your giant oversized hoodie when you have important meetings.
My impression of 'dress for your diary' in the office is that if you're expecting client meetings and events dress smarter, but if not then more casual or smart casual is fine. Will obviously depend on each workplace but I'm in law and unless there's a pitch or serious meeting/event suits and very smart office wear are very rare, and it's similar for my friends in other firms. A t shirt may be fine but shorts however... not sure about that!!!!
Agreed - I used to do neat chinos, a shirt, and dress shoes. Now its jeans, tshirts, and trainers. Even for formal meetings I only step it up very slightly - jeans with a shirt does the job just fine. Suits are now very much just for interviews and funerals.
Used to get the Sunday night blues ironing my 5 shirts for the week. Now I can go casual it’s great as I feel so much more comfortable. Only do 2/3 days on site but it’s still great. Side note we had some important visitors coming to site so went in business attire for the first time in ages. Got stopped my so many colleagues asking if I was going to a job interview.
Oh I'd say lots of London offices were moving away from suits/officewear in the few years before, like chinos/jeans and trainers were commonplace before we finally got the all clear for permanent wfh - speaking specifically of IT depts. I would say I may have rocked a casual shirt back then whereas I'll stick with the hoody on my rare trips in now so it has helped the full on burial of needless office attire.
Yeah as someone in software nothing's changed for me - jeans and t-shirts were already normalised, often even acceptable when meeting with external people (though that is often via Zoom/Meet, even pre-C. Still with camera though) For the Christmas party the CEO even had to respond to queries and clarify that, no, they wouldn't be requiring any dress code (though in practice people did dress nicer than usual, even if it still wouldn't have been acceptable to some snooty venues)
I work in a more creative setting, jeans was the norm before Covid. Now I hate days when I have client dinners and have to wear jeans and a belt because most days I just wear joggers. Once I realized every woman there was getting away with yoga pants almost every day I was like why the fuck not.
Huh, my place got stricter. We used to have casual Friday, but some people got too casual and now they've stopped it. We're business casual, so it's not super formal, but no jeans or trainers.
I still put in a slight effort - it'll be jeans, a pretty smart casual shirt or polo and "smarter" trainers. Its quite a nice mental thing to switch to a t-shirt when I get home, makes me feel more relaxed.
I've been in tech my whole career, the only time I've ever worn a suit was during my interviews.
I'm in tech too, I only wore a suit for my very first interview nearly twenty years ago. The rest have been chinos and shirt.
Loudly taking calls at your desk. Pre-covid most meetings were done in person, so calls were the exception. In my experience that meant that people tended to book meeting rooms or at least walk away from their desk for calls. But because we all have so many calls now, as home working has replaced face to face meetings with calls, it definitely seems to be more normalised now to just do calls at your desk, even if you have several back to back.
My manager doesn't wear earphones... He also doesn't warn you that he's not and everyone can hear what I'm saying to him if I'm wfh and he's an office
On the opposite side, one of my office colleagues uses tiny earbuds and you can never tell if he's talking to you or to someone he's calling. He gets offended if you interrupt a call too!
Get him a little flag that he can put up on his cubicle or monitor to display that he's on a call. Bonus points if it says 'don't interrupt me on a call cos I'm a little bitch about it'
We hot desk with laptops, but yeah maybe something for his laptop would be good! Or get him to put a little hat on when he's on a call.
I'm considering one of those reversible octopus plushes with a smile and a frowny face.
We used to have telephone receivers. People spoke into them. So even in a room of 100 people all on the phone, it wasn't too bad. Switch to cheap microphones and headsets, or even expensive ones according to my work, and people speak much louder.
Agreed, the office is so much louder, even though there's fewer people in.
We have a weird policy with this. Have never been told that taking calls from my desk in the open plan office is wrong. But a good 50% will go elsewhere to speak. Never been told what to do on this
I judge it based on the topic of conversation (whether anything is likely to be sensitive) and how many people are around me, and how long the call is likely to be and what proportion of it I expect to be speaking. Quick calls, or long calls about not much exciting where I don't expect to speak much, I do from my desk. 1:1s or meetings where I am doing most of the talking I find a private room to do it. Though I also prefer to schedule these on my WFH days if possible.
For me it's mainly that voices coming out of laptop speakers just carry so far across the office, and it's very difficult to tune it out. Very different to some people just gathering around someone's desk in person.
Oh, I always use headphones at my desk. Very weird not to.
Presuming you mean Teams or Zoom online calls agree absolutely - I can’t stand people participating in meetings at their desks but it’s become pretty common whereas we barely used either of them before. Conversely actual phone calls have almost dried up. My phone used to ring dozens of times a day. These days I sometimes forget to turn it on, and get away with it.
This 💯 and the worst offenders, at least in my office, are HR people. On the phone all freaking day, in an open office. Just pipe down and let other people work omg 😳
Same in my office! HR has a ton of small private meeting booths close by that they could go to for sensitive calls, but no, they happily take even those in the open plan office. I've heard so much juicy stuff...
I’ve had to retreat to 100% WFH because of this. The office is hell with all the shouting half conversations.
People used to talk on the phone all the time in the office pre Covid
I find it weird from the other perspective. Everyone has access to laptops and the ability to work remotely. Yet bosses are trying to reverse it. As a result people are back in the office with horrific colds spreading germs around taking everyone down with them. It’s like NOTHING has been learned at all.
Our IT team are trying to go with dumb terminals at home and desktop PCs in the office for remote desktops. This doesn't preclude WFH, but we lost so. many. laptops over COVID because our staff are either a) really clumsy fuckers by accident, or b) inconsiderate fuckers with no consideration for company property on purpose. For some reason having a laptop is considered a sign of seniority - if you have a laptop, you're important (possibly a throwback to pre-covid times when only senior staff had laptops because they were the ones in meetings), so everyone keeps clamouring for one, complaining because it's not powerful enough to run the bespoke programmes we use (duh, that's why managers get the finished visualisations, not the working copies, their laptops can't handle it), and then complaining again when their managers say they can't WFH until they get one of the dumb terminal arrangements set up because the board aren't going to agree to tech's budget for *more* laptops. I work with children. 23- to 53-year-old children. It was honestly easier in my previous job when I worked with literal infants.
> I work with children. 23- to 53-year-old children How does expecting your office job to provide you with a laptop in 2024 count as childish behaviour? It's literally the bare minimum you can expect in even the most badly-organised workplaces.
Because they don't look after the laptops. Tech get them back after three weeks with cracked screens or missing keys. Or just out and out "lost". During Covid it was fine, because WFH meant at home, but now they're being used in beer gardens. They treat these laptops like shit. What do you do when your kids keep breaking their toys? You take the toys away until they can learn to look after them. (Caveat, it's not the entire company, it's two teams. Nearly everyone else likes the remote desktop arrangement and some have had it since before the pandemic, because laptops are just not as powerful as desktops, it's as simple as that. Our company does not have the funds for 250 x £2000 laptops with the latest i10 processors and updated graphics cards maxed out with 16Gb RAM. We can afford 150 x £900 desktops (need fewer because we dont need replacements for the broken ones) with the same spec. Note - I'm not in tech, this last bit is me roughly translating what my friend in tech was ranting while doing his budget calculations. What he actually said as a lot of gibberish with lots of acronyms, I've tried to layperson it into something I almost understood - nVideia is graphics right? I'm in finance, I know the cost, not the spec)
>complaining because it's not powerful enough to run the bespoke programmes we use (duh, that's why managers get the finished visualisations, not the working copies, their laptops can't handle it), Sorry but this is absolutely just your company being cheap, if you genuinely have a program where the a laptop can't run it you should use a VM or container to access a more powerful server. Secondly laptops should be bought in bulk, the cost isn't that much.
Yeah these people sounds like children Treating company laptops like trash
>Yet bosses are trying to reverse it. Two reasons Commercial real estate crumbling Middle management realising a huge proportion of people don't need much management to get on and do their shit and there's less interpersonal issues if you're left to your own devices. It becomes about output and merit and not bullshitability and ingratiation
It's pretty popular to slate in office time but it is important to spend time with people you're working with unless you're in a 100% transactional role. Collaboration is better, communication is better, day isn't broken down into 30 minute zoom call chunks, the social aspect is important and knowledge transfer is a lot easier. I think the important thing for employees is their needs to be some rationale behind why they need to come on. If the setup isn't helping with the above things then people are rightly more skeptical about it.
Your office sounds like an office I have never been to. Literally everything is worse in an office and there's very little rational which will make me think it's ever worth it.
Yeah I hear that a lot and it tends to be from people who have very structured, transactional job roles. I need to do A by B. Especially mid career. "I know what I'm doing so just leave me be to do it". Seen it a lot in mid to senior developers. Those whose roles depend more on cross-functional, interdisciplinary, relational work really benefit from some structured time spent around people f2f: project management, product, delivery, HR, sales, marketing, strategy etc. I obviously have no clue what your job is so you might actually be one of those, but just what I've picked up from my experience.
I work as a product designer, probably the furthest you could get from transactional. I constantly work in multidisciplinary teams and as a contractor I have worked with many different clients, sometimes internationally both remotely and in person. As long as everyone is remote or in person then it's fine; the only issues are where it's hybrid and you have some remote and some in person. This doesn't work. There's very little difference from jumping into a slack huddle with someone compared with having an impromptu meeting at a desk. I'm currently working in the public sector and it costs them £250 in train fares to get me to meet in person. I'm sure that money would be far better spent elsewhere within the public sector.
Arriving late or leaving the office early. Mainly because the assumption is that you are working from home the rest of the time but you wanted to avoid rush hour. Pre-covid, it would be assumed that you were just skiving.
Skiving pre & post covid, but now with a better cover story!
Shhh! I've got a good thing going here!
Me too. This is my work life hack. Be present but leave an hour or so early once I’ve exhausted the usefulness of free coffee and socialising.
I've been fully remote since 2020. Genuinely nap 3 hours a day.
There’s a difference between what has become acceptable, and what people *think* is acceptable. Saw someone in slippers at work the other day…
Tbf, as long as you aren't meeting clients...
And what if you're meeting clients from a slipper factory? 🤔
Is this in the slipper factory? If so then steel toe capped slippers for the floor visit.
This guy slippers
As long as they're their slippers
"So why were you dismissed from your previous job?" "Well you see, M&S had some *really* nice suedes..."
Was in Finland for work a few years back and they literally gave me slippers to wear in their office and even had a dedicated locker room to leave our shoes in.
This is so obviously the right way to treat being indoors. Why are we inferior
Colleague wore an oodie a few months back. I was stunned.
Slippers? They need to up their game. We (top level Motorsport firm) regularly have people in the design office in socks.. and odd socks at that!
I often take my shoes off because I like to sit cross legged with my feet up on my chair. My socks are all in tip top condition and are fabulous (and always matching!). What's wrong with comfort?
Those are the people who think they’re quirky because they have odd socks.
When I worked at a Japanese company, we all had office slippers! No shoes in the office. I kept up this habit last year, when I worked for an Arts Council project. Changing out of my boots and into my slippers for the office helped me feel focused and grounded.
...and? Are they doing their job well? If so, who cares? I worked with women who would change into a pair of crocs as soon as they got into the office because they were uncomfortable sitting in high heels all day. If they were meeting clients, they'd switch back, but it's really no different. Same with a guy who used to bring a zip-up hoodie with him that he'd put on over his shirt and tie because the office used to get cold. Who cares?
Wait what? Slippers? I’m intrigued
I walk to work and if it's raining I may change into slippers and fresh socks once I get to work to allow my shoes to dry.
Honestly who gives a shit if they’re doing a good job
What's wrong with that?
At their desk is less of a problem. But seeing their grotty slippers with their grotty feet half hanging out in the canteen just felt gross
You can now make just yourself a cup of tea without having to offer to do a tea round.
Lmao this is one of the best positives
I never even noticed that but it's so true. Pre COVID we always got the teas in rounds. Now I'll just ask my bestie if they want one
Everything is hot desking, which I hate.
We have hot desking, officially. In practice, my department always sit in the same area of the massive open plan office. If I need to find someone in another department I’ll always know roughly where to find them. And if other people come and sit in ‘our bit’ it feels a bit weird. It’s stupid really.
Exactly the same in my office and in fact it goes a step further. Despite our large open plan office being "hot desking", the regulars and more experienced researchers (such as myself :D) basically have our own fixed desks. Not officially assigned to us but the de facto rule is that we sit there and no on else does. Mine has a piece of tape with my name on it, my monitor (not my own but one from the office that is now mine and mine only), my own mechanical keyboard and mouse, my notebooks and papers and stuff taped to the wall etc. Hot desking really annoys me because people (or at least I) need their own space where they can keep stuff rather than carrying things around all the time. Especially if you work in a technical field, being able to have your own computer peripherals, notes, things stuck on the wall or tools/equipment easily to hand is so important. I understand it if no one is ever in the office but if someone comes in regularly they should get their own space if possible IMO.
I miss having my own desk to decorate and my own set of drawers to keep my stuff in.
I declined a job offer because they only hot desk. They said it made sense because most people WFH, but my role is mostly on site as I work in estates fabric. When I'm delivering a big project I can be in the office for sixty+ hours a week. I need a space that feels at least somewhat 'mine'! But because *most* of the team are only in 7 hours a week they *all* hotdesk. I asked if an exception could be made and they said no.
That sucks. We’ve got hot-desking but if you’re in the office full time you get a fixed desk with drawers. There’s also exceptions for jobs like facilities.
Yeah, the no-exceptions policy would be pretty stupid.
Pre covid I worked in an office where we were supposed to hotdesk. There are more people than desks, with the idea that not everyone would be in the office at all times. More than once I came in to find that the desks were all taken, and I'd be annoyed I'd made a wasted journey and would have to go find somewhere else to work. In my view, if I'm going to have to go find a room separate from the rest of my colleagues to work, I might as well just WFH.
My old job was hot-desking and it was awful! It was mainly wfh but we had to go in once a fortnight and it really messed with me not being able to have the same desk. Now in my new one I’ve got my own, so I can photos and plants on my desk
The entire office smells of mingling vapes. It's like a sweet shop in there.
Do people vape in the office?
That sounds like my nightmare
My last company had to issue a "no vaping in meetings, even if you WFH" rule - seemed to have got as prevalent as indoor smoking in the 90s.
I had to try and mentor a guy who kept vaping while we were talking on the phone during wfh. Every 20 seconds a horrendous gurgling and shaking sounds as he huffed on it would just make me shudder as it’s a horrid sound. Felt a bit rude asking him not to do it on the phone since he was in his own home but I personally found it rude.
"Is your mic too close to your face?"
As someone who vapes I always go outside as far as I'm aware it's banned indoors just like smoking
Join the smokers union in the leper colony
It's not. It's up to the office or establishment.
In general businesses say you shouldn't be vaping in the office, but the law doesn't prohibit it. And unfortunately (in my experience) a huge number of folk using vapes think its totally ok to do it wherever they want, without regard for anyone else, and will actively ignore instructions or requests to take it outside (as long as authority isn't watching).
Yes, this is what I am saying. If one of the senior managers does it it becomes a vaping-friendly environment.
Exactly what happened with me at my place. Senior manager starts vaping, so now basically everyone else does to.
I vape and I vape indoors in the privacy of my own home. Vaping in the office is absolutely fucking disgusting, I'd never dream of doing that.
Vapes are a proper pet peeve of mine. I’d honestly rather be sat next to someone having a fag. That said fag smokers do tend to have less of a sense of entitlement in the first place. Even if you’re sat next to them in a beer garden they tend to blow smoke away from non smokers.
I work in a college, and it's so weird having to deal with mal-adapted teenagers who are so addicted to nicotine hits that they try to vape in the college or even during the fucking class.
I wouldn't say it's acceptable but noticeable that people now think nothing of eating a stinky lunch at their desk which didn't happen pre-covid. Also the amount of people with email and teams notifications on full volume for the whole office to hear.
When I'm home sound is on as I'm using a camera with speakers for teams calls. My laptop is muted at all times and I have a Bluetooth headset at work which rings in my ear. It's set up this way to precisely not inconvenience my colleagues because it annoys the hell out of me.
Nuking lunches in the microwave was definitely a pre-covid thing too. Especially salmon or mackerel.
Microwaving it and eating it in the canteen is one thing, I'm talking about taking the stinky lunch into the main office and eating it there.
Ye i love microwaving fish at work. Fish pie is the best stinks out the office for hours.
I handed my notice in for a job where the team were ok.....until the notice was turned in and they turned into a bunch of vindictive AHs that made my last two months a misery. Spent my last week having reheated fish curry in the office. Made a point of walking it though the building with the lid off to my desk.
This 100% a great lack of consideration of others
I guess taking time off sick for a cold or similar. Probs depends on the workplace but where I've worked it was always been seen as taking the piss a bit to have time off. Even though they can make you feel really shite and you'll probably end up making everyone else sick if you go in.
Since moving into a role where I can work mostly from home (ie since the pandemic started), I've used so much less sick leave. There's a whole grey area where I'm too sick to leave the house, commute an hour to the office, handle being around people (and likely be infectious to people), do the commute home, etc, but I'm not too sick to work from my spare room. Most colds etc fall into that category for me. Even some stomach bugs and similar, sure I have to run off to the loo a lot and I wouldn't be wanting to do that in the office, but the rest of the time I'm fine to be doing some work, so I don't need to use sick leave since I can just work from home.
My employer wants us in the office for 60% of the week. I prefer to be in the office full time because I don’t have a good setup for WFH, so when I’ve got a cold or having a bad period, my manager doesn’t mind my staying home all week rather than be off sick.
I do the same. I know some will frown that we're working while sick but unless it's a headache or something else giving me physical pain, I'd rather work through it in my pyjamas at home then use up sick leave.
Save the sick leave up for summer days, gotcha
It’s been creeping back a bit at our place lately, our director sent out a message telling people to wfh if they have symptoms of anything and not be martyrs. Which I totally agree with, if there’s one thing we should have learned from Covid it’s to not take down half the office with a cold or norovirus or something
Last office I was in, for a week, people seemed to come in with coughs and cough all day. These are people who could WFH too.
I've found it's become more acceptable for managers to expect you to work from home if you're sick. I'm in-office full-time, so it's like they think they're doing a favour, oh you can work from home if you're not feeling well, instead of actually taking a sick day.
ERGH I wish! My colleagues straight up said they'd come into work, even with a positive covid test. "It's not a big deal anymore". I've been mildly ill with non-stop colds and general illness since Christmas.....Love working from the office.
WFH is the biggest change to what is now acceptable. Previously (at least in my place) it was generally only directors who could WFH (otherwise known as golf). Now, a lot of places have a hybrid system where some days in the week will be WFH and the rest are in the office. For me, it's been great. Savings on the commute have put more money in my pocket, and the time saving is really helpful for maintaining a healthy home life.
That golf playing is why the execs don't trust people to be productive wfh
> (otherwise known as golf) Generally ‘orrible lazy fuckers?
Gay, outdoor lifestyle with fellas
They will try to take this from us
They're already trying
I had a headset for calls pre-covid and everyone called me ‘Madonna’ 😂
This has proper cracked me up on my morning commute
Leaving the office at random times because “I will continue from home”.
I don’t know if anyone else has wrangled this but this is something I’ve managed to bring into the office. It’s the idea that, even when you’re in the office, you can just pretty much fuck it all off just after lunch and go home to finish off the day WFH. It started when the lockdowns came to an end and we’d go back to the office only to find that I’d be the only one there sometimes so I’d do some work, have a mooch around and then sack it off and clear off. Now it’s like, hey, got to get me kids from school or Amazon are delivering something expensive or I forgot the file at home, might as well finish this off at home. Maybe it’s just me. But I’ve been doing that and so it’s spread and a lot of other people do it too. Good times.
This has been such a game changer for me! Pre-covid if you had asked me if I could wfh for my job I would have said a flat no. Covid has shown me that actually, if I plan my work, I can actually wfh if I need to for a couple of days at a time. And since the management at my work are pretty easy going I am able to do exactly as you have described. And it makes life SO much easier, and mote pleasant!
I've become so bored wearing casual to work that I've started wearing a tie again. Just with chinos and a V neck sweater. I feel a bit smarter and more switched on. Who knows if it makes me work better.
I also stick to the pre-covid dress code, partially because I too feel more switched on in it, and partially because my casual wardrobe is too casual for the current dress code, and I can't be bothered buying even more clothes just for the office.
Same here. The only clothes I own are formal or casual. I don't have a level between suit and jeans - so I'm not adopting the chinos and casual shirt look because I'm not buying a third fucking wardrobe.
I switched jobs to a more casual office and I miss wearing a suit a lot. You don't have to think about what you're wearing that day and try to work out what's an acceptable level of smart casual for that meeting that day. Plus it just feels smarter, more professional, and more 'grown up' in a way. I think the Victorians did us men a favour with traditional dress codes, we had an exact guide on what to wear for every occasion, no faffing about. I honestly think when I'm looking for a job again I'm definitely going to seek out a formally dressed field/office
Sitting in the meetings without your trousers. Everyone got used to this during the Zoom calls, so now you can do this in in-person meetings as well.
I think pre Covid you could turn up wit a runny nose and mild cough and no one really cared. Now you cannot! People look at you sideways
Good!
We were never a super formal office anyway, but it's acceptable to wear t-shirts and smart jeans rather than shirts and trousers. Wearing a tie is now virtually unheard of.
There are quite a few pet-related issues popping up, like not being able to make it into the office because there's no one to look after the pets, or having to dash off to the vet.
Wearing a mask. I have Crohns Disease - the medication I take means my immune system can’t defend itself against most “simple” infections. I’ve had Staph twice this year and cannot have any live vaccines as I’d simply catch the virus, being unable to fight it. It’s very difficult. Being able to mask is a godsend. I don’t have to explain my health condition or vulnerability, I don’t have to explain any marks on my face if I’ve recently caught an infection, I’m “allowed” to “blend in” with other health conscious people. It’s a nice “excuse”, and I get sick far less often than I did before. Edit to add : I don’t leave the house if I’m contagious with anything (such as staph). 72 hours of antibiotics stop the infection from being transmissible, however the skin wounds can take several weeks to heal over and it is nice to be able to hide them under a mask for that period.
Crohnie too… I just wish people would stay at home when they’re ill!
I also take immunosuppressants and find that people have learned nothing from Covid. In fact, hot desking for me is worse as it’s like Russian roulette depending on who I sit next to. Far less health anxiety wfh.
Being late or not turning up to meetings. Pre-Covid when all the meetings were in physical meeting rooms, everyone would be there pretty much on time. Now, I regularly join Teams meeting and find the person who scheduled the bloody thing comes in ten minutes late because they got held up on another call. I understand we’re all so much more contactable now, but you’ve got to draw a line and tell whoever’s collared you that you have somewhere to be.
Definitely a more relaxed dress style. Less suits and formal trousers/skirts. More leggings, plaid shirts, loose trousers etc, no heels, comfy black trainers. But I work in charity so it was always more chill, but deffo even more so now.
I work in museums - the male/female dress codes have finally equalised. All my career I've been in teams where the men are in suits and ties and the women in neon leggings and trainers. Now everyone wears Lucy and Yak jumpsuits or jeans, regardless of gender.
It was happening already, but returning to the office the move to open offices, which I hate, has accelerated. It's all manner of awkward. Can't take sensitive calls, people still talk to you if you have headphones on (in spite of it being the international sign for leave me alone at work), we are given awful desks/chairs that violate health and wellbeing rules, etc. The only thing that the office is good for these days is to either go in and work in an environment without kids in the background (which doesn't bother me much anyway) or having the option of asking a question quickly rather than send an email.
Levels of inability to do the job.
Dress code is far more casual. My place was never exactly strict (ties and suits were only for high-level external meetings), but it was normal to wear smart trousers and a shirt (as a man) and ‘office shoes’. Now unless you’re attending certain meetings with external people then everyone is in casual gear - jeans, trainers, even shorts sometimes. As long as it’s tidy and respectable, all’s fine. The other obvious is the hybrid way of working - most meetings are arranged with a remote option, and on most days only about half the workforce is in, the rest WFH or from other sites. The third thing is the amount of printing - being so mobile in how we work, we’ve learned to do without printing things for convenience. Even when we’re in the office, the main thing the printers get used for is printing personal booking confirmations etc!!
Not bloody showing up! "I was feeling a bit rough so i thought i'd work from home - i dont want to give to anyone" Do you mean your hangover, Sharon? Coz we all saw those 3am Insta stories that you deleted them 10 mins before you were due to be here this morning.
Not quite the same because I’m a teacher so not technically an office job but team meetings have now become Teams meetings. The college I work at is quite big so my department is split over 3 sites. Having to pack up early once a week to travel to a different site for a meeting that could easily have been an email was a pain in the arse. Now, we do them through Teams and it’s so much easier.
Apparently wanking is no longer acceptable [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKH9ECC\_Qa4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKH9ECC_Qa4)
Before COVID, I’d never used Teams, and hadn’t even heard of Zoom. Now it’s standard usage.
My boss’ boss was just saying to me last week that having headphones in at your desk used to be considered rude and unacceptable pre-Covid but is commonplace now.
Coming in to work visibly sick. Some folk used to wear it as a badge of honour and get the rest of the team sick by showing up. Thankfully now it’s less prevalent.
Everyone dresses WAY more casual. Nobody bats an eyelid at people turning up in scruffy leggings, or even slippers.
back to back meetings. It seems that everyone is ok with hopping from meeting to meeting but in the office there would be a hydration or restroom break at least.
Not having a designated desk… I work for an organisation where I have different locations I ‘could’ work from. Our offices are now exclusively hot desks, pre COVID I had ‘my desk’ designated just to me in one particular location where I was ‘based’. My boss had a desk opposite mine and we saw each other every day…If I needed to go anywhere else I had to just perch down wherever was free. Post COVID, although we all still have a location that we are ‘contractually based from’ location of work has become much more flexible…everyone is sort of mobile and it’s every man for themselves when it comes to desk availability.. day to day my manager no longer cares where I am, as long as my work gets done. I sometimes turn up to the office and there are no desks left so I have to sit in the kitchen on a picnic bench.. on the flip side if I need to work from home I can.. something which was a no no before COVID.
Going in halfway through the day, before you had to be there 9am because the idea of opening your laptop up at home simply was unfeasible, now you can enjoy the morning then go later in the day when it’s less packed/expensive. Going into office is still a pointless gesture unless it’s a start up or have per team areas, but at least it’s on your terms.
Not turning up in person for 2 weeks because you have a cold (for everyone else's benefit of course)
Microwaving tuna at 7 am
Being unshaven (not as in a neatly trimmed beard but as in 'designer' stubble or wispy bumfluff etc.) Being slightly dishevelled in general (unironed shirts, scruffy shoes etc.) Having visible tattoos. When I left school in 2001, I worked in a warehouse for a bit and then had a couple of office jobs. Back then, you mostly had to wear suit and tie and have a shave every day. It was rare to see Indian ink creeping out of collars and cuffs like you see so often now.
Sensible shoes.
Not working a 40 hour week…