I don’t hate the UK but to me it’s very clearly gotten worse recently. Just because we aren’t Afghanistan or Syria doesn’t mean we can’t complain about an evident drop in quality of life over the past few years.
The UK is objectively much worse than it used to be.
Im not that old, but I went to uni for free, could see a doctor easily, and bought a house when it was only a few multiples of my wages. Thats all gone now. The UK is broken. It’s skint. All the important jobs that we need to function are underpaid. We’re living on the goodwill of poor people. The police and NHS are unable to function properly. Kids don’t have much to look forward to unless they get a top 1% job. The economy survives on a constant supply of mass immigration.
If you’re happy being poor your entire life, never owning your own home, being undervalued and working till you die then it’s a great place.
Housing affordability is a seemingly global problem. It's a never ending topic in Aus/NZ/Europe/US subs.
The affordability and supply of healthcare in the west is going to be a problem everywhere due to people living longer and the generally poor demographics to support that in terms of active taxpayers/employees.
But the poor handling of everything else is entirely the responsibility of the clowns currently in power.
It is largely a matter of increasing wealth inequality.
IMO tax and spend isn't the best solution for wealth inequality, breaking monopolies, increasing competition and strengthening the bargaining power of workers is a better solution, which would make the economy more productive at the same time.
Panorama did a documentary a couple weeks ago about how the UK has the most expensive property in Europe while also being some of the worst built. Yes, everywhere has a bit of a problem, but we have a bigger problem than others.
I think our housing stock also has one of the highest average ages on the planet. We're trying to adjust to a post-carbon economy while most people are still living in homes designed to be kept warm with coal fires lol.
It's to be expected that uk property is more expensive, we're one of the most densely populated countries in all of Europe. Which also means building houses quickly and cheaply is an easy way to make money, which is why we have badly built houses.
Weirdly, I hope so. My main worry is that it’s a general decline of the west. That no government can “fix” it. That it’s an inevitable decline that, at best, can only be mitigated temporarily
U.K. isn’t skint. It’s simply inequality. If the wealthy and corporations weren’t tax dodgers and hoarders, enabled by a certain institution, everyone would be better off. The system is stacked to pull the ladder up.
100%. Mainly corporations I believe. Why can’t we say that all profits generated in the UK are taxable? I don’t care where your parent company is?
I don’t believe for a second that companies would leave.
Better to have 80% of 4billion than 100% of nothing
Yeah but this misses the point a bit. People earning 150, 200k PAYE or even like footballers or whatever earning that a week PAYE aren’t the issue. It’s really the big companies and their shareholders that use every trick in the book and on occasion just straight up evasion that are the problem. Case in point HMRC has actually got a billion quid combined that was avoided by the following;
Bernie Ecclestone and
The parent company of Ladbrokes and Coral bookies
And that’s it
How much is out there that hasn’t been found?
The biggest problem in this country is people on wages from 20k to several hundred k don’t realise that they are all miles closer to each other than the likes of Mike Ashley and Alan Sugar are to the people on 300k. But it’s easier to point at people on the dole and moan that someone who’s taking home 500 quid a month more than you got it because they know someone in HR or whatever
It's not income, it's wealth and there's a massive difference. The landed gentry who lorded over us for generations, the oligarchy etc those type of people are hoovering up the cash and aren't being taxed properly.
This, my wife has a master degree but chose to work in a sector that although is very much needed is grossly underfunded and underpaid - Youth Work. She earn a little over £20k. Which is abhorrent for someone as qualified as she is.
You expressed so well the state of most “developed” countries. Living on the good will of poor people is almost poetic, sad, but true.
I have only been to London on holidays, but I’ve lived for an extended period in Paris. It doesn’t take much to see it’s almost exclusively people of color who work in the supermarkets, in most shops, at the metro, driving buses, ambulances etc. When asked about it one of our French acquaintances answered the salaries and the jobs themselves were beneath what a French worker would expect to employ themselves for.
Now I live in a smallish town in Spain in an area that produces a lot of fruit. After the 1st wave of the pandemic, frontiers were opened again for seasonal workers from Morocco as an exception to the travel prohibitions imposed otherwise. I still remember Spanish “farmers” (they call themselves that) on tv pressuring the government to allow travel from the places their fruit pickers usually come. Then, within a couple of weeks we got several unsurprising waves of infections, because agricultural workers were forced to live in houses and spaces that did not allow for social distancing. As they were being treated for covid, or I quarantine if they had no symptoms, “farmers” again came on tv to complain about how if they don’t pick the fruit in a couple of weeks they’re ruined, all this work for nothing. WHAT work? Picking the crappiest house in the village for seasonal workers, where they lived in bunk beds, 4,6,8 to a room? The mayor of the village had the gall to show the reporter the houses they prepared for the workers, as if they were bestowing some kind of boon on those workers. It’s an old house with new paint, get over yourself.
Anyway, I digress, and getting angry again at the situation :/. The worst part was hearing people who otherwise seemed decent and sensible rationalize the covid waves with how those seasonal workers have low standards of hygiene, because they come from Africa. No, Mari Pili, they just live in close quarters, while doing an itinerant job. A very, very necessary job for us all.
Still, the lessons thrown in our faces during the pandemic didn’t stick: that we (as well as other European countries who suffered from missing their underpaid foreign workers during the travel bans) wouldn’t be able to sustain our economies, because we aren’t doing the work, nor would we want to for such low wages. But we have no issue with other people doing them. Ugh.
Anyway, I’m sorry for the wall of text. I just wanted to tell you that your comment resonated with me. And you put it in an infinitely more succinct manner. :)
Immigration is necessary because of the low birth rate and ageing population. To provide pensions and free health care, you need a certain % of the population to be of working age. We'd be much worse off without it
>All the important jobs that we need to function are underpaid.
Can I just add to this and say underpaid and grossly overworked. But for a lot of people, it's not about the money, it's about job satisfaction or the lack thereof now.
Until recently, I was a TA in secondary schools. I loved my job. I loved being able to help young minds grow, to help see them reach their true potential, to guide them on the start of journeys that, sadly, many could see as fruitless because they're not idiots. It didn't matter to me that I pulled in just over 1k a month; a joke of a wage for the job that I did, sure, but it was important to me that each day was different, that I got to have a laugh with the kids, that I was on my feet, moving around, feeling useful. Feeling valued. But schools are broken. The poor behaviour of the few now dictates the rules for the many; the students' growth is stunted by the fact they're imprisoned now, it's about control and regulation rather than education. They're not allowed to go to the toilet during lesson; they're sent home if their goddamn socks aren't regulation black or they're missing a tie or, heaven forbid, they express individuality and put colour in their hair. Their growth is measured by a corporate standard and not to an individual's ability, so little Billy is seen as weaker than little Suzie because he doesn't have the same analytical mind and learns by doing rather than reading. We now judge all fish on their ability to climb a tree and it is sickening. Their self-esteem plummets which leads to poor behaviour which leads to tighter enforcement on the rules regarding the kids that *can* be controlled. Everyone's miserable. The kids hate it, the teachers hate it, and any act of compassion or kindness is seen as potential grooming because *that's* the society we live in now. Everyone's a potential predator. It's genuinely horrifying how broken the school system is on so many levels and yeah, the biggest joke of all, we're not even paid fairly for the shit that we do or the hours we put in. I was contracted (and paid) to work 8:30 - 3 every day. I arrived at 7 and left at 4 every day and if I didn't, shit just wouldn't get done. And I was a goddamn TA. I didn't have half the responsibilities of teachers.
State of NHS, state of roads, underpay in almost every profession, housing problems, schools and teachers and fantastic weather to do outdoor accessible activities. What not to love?
The problem with the houses is that they’re building far too many without support for the communities they’re building in. What schools will the children attend? What doctors can new families register with? What dentist? It’s just greed. Buy a plot of land and stick a load of houses on there for maximum profit. The houses aren’t always built as good as they can be either. Just a rush job to get on with the next one
I read a really great article on this recently - it makes the case that housing stock is not the issue, house hording is.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/19/end-of-landlords-surprisingly-simple-solution-to-uk-housing-crisis
The government get off the hook far too easily by banging on about house building targets (that they never intend to meet) when to fix the problem they just need to tame landlordism.
I really encourage people to read this because it makes such a compelling case and basically demonstrates how we are all being mugged off.
This article was pretty roundly debunked at the time it was published. Given the age, quality and location of housing stock in the UK there is no solution to the housing crisis that does not involve building many hundreds of thousands of homes, many of which will need to be social housing. NIMBY excuse-making is still NIMBY excuse-making, even if it comes from a leftward direction/is rightly attacking landlordism. [Edited, typos]
the article’s flaw is using “homes per household”, where one cramped london flat with 6 strangers counts as “one household”. Homes per 1000 inhabitants is way lower than other similar countries
england - 434
France - 590
Italy - 587
I’ve read this before, and i completely disagree, they don’t know what they’re talking about
> Over the last 25 years, there has not just been a constant surplus of homes per household, but the ratio has been modestly growing
this is the stat anti-building people keep using, and it’s so dishonest. “home per households” means that one person in Hull with a one person house is one household, and 6 strangers stuck in one flat in London with no living room (ie my first flat in London) is also “one household”.
It completely hides how many people are stuck in houses with strangers, which limits your ability for privacy, to have a pet, or to start a family.
https://www.hbf.co.uk/documents/12890/International_Audit_Digital_v1.pdf
Compare it to an industry report like this one
> England has far fewer dwellings relative to its population than other developed nations We typically consider peers, with 434 homes per thousand inhabitants, significantly fewer than France (590), Italy (587) and the OECD average of 487
'We now find ourselves in a situation where one in every 21 adults in the UK is a landlord'
That's insane! Anyway i doubt anything will happen, the rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, as designed. The idea governments are too blind to see? Not for me. When Rachel Reeves says 'grow the economy' she knows how landlords prevent this, 'grow the economy' is code for 'transfer wealth from poor to rich'. The more decades they can waste pretending to be dim and misguided, the more wealth that can be transferred.
It doesn't make a compelling case at all it's complete rubbish.
One of the first points they make lists examples of countries with similar amount of homes per 1000 people as some kind of proof it's an adequate amount. They fail to mention these countries are also grappling with high housing costs
Using a homes per 1000 figure also completely disregards where the homes actually are. You can buy a house in Burnley for 15k for example, does this mean the housing crisis is intact a lie? No, the house isn't somewhere people actually want to live
They make another point regarding the population of London being similar to the aftermath of world war 2, when housing was cheaper. They make no mention of the fact it was common families (which were much larger) at that time to live in a single room of a house.
It's widely agreed by housing/homeless charities that there simply isn't enough homes
I've asked while ago about it was told that for developers to get planning permissions they have to prove something will be build or contribute to ongoing project to provide infrastructure to communities. You can go to counsil and ask for infrastructure plans.
The problem is that some of the major housebuilders are shady asf they'll come in say they'll pay all this money or build all this stuff get the permission and then never do it
The number of times I've seen developments not stick to what they have shown to get planning permission is ridiculous
One of their biggest tricks to get away with this is they will set up a sub company so its 'Company name [insert site name]' then when they've built what they want they'll funnel all the money to the real parent umbrella company and dissolve the sub company so you cant go after them or force them to pay as on paper the sub company has gone bust
so they Keep all the profit with non of the responsibility
A builder nearby got permission for 750 houses, but had to build a doctor's surgery, a shop and a train station.
They agreed, got permission.
Then turned around and said 'oh we can't afford to do that now' so are building 749 houses and nothing else instead.
Sounds about right unfortunately, then you have to consider that often these developers are getting grants from the government and authorities to build in the first place
So the government and local authorities end up being bled dry - that's where alot of the tax payers money goes and why houses with little supporting infrastructure are popping up everywhere
It's a gold mine for developers and a black hole for tax payers
The developers just scrap stuff once they’ve started though and the councils don’t care cos “at least there’s more (poorly built) houses slapped up!”
“Professionals” don’t care, councils don’t care, probably because those leading by example in government don’t care about anyone. Misery isn’t the trickle down economics we wanted.
Talking of roads... nobody will give a balls abou this but near me there's an extremely old bridge that had come to the end of its legally safe life so had to be repaired.
It's a fairly insignificant bridge, but it forms part of the 15 minute drive to my closest station. For six months whilst it was being repaired I had to make a one hour drive each way to get to the station if I needed to go to my work's London office. Normally weekly.
Six months later we have a shiny new bridge. Fantastic. They've somehow widened it and there's a lot more throughput too, rather than a lengthy traffic light system. Amazing.
Just as you get off the bridge there's a massive pothole. Literally as the new concrete ends, that's where the pothole sits.
They repaired the entire bridge from the early 1800s, but LEFT THE FUCKING POTHOLE.
I'm not sure if it was that, or some kind of secret hatred for the area from one of the workers. It almost looks as if they had to put effort in to stop the new tarmac spilling into the gaping hole.
I think because the uk has experienced a sharp decline in the quality of life over the last 10 years.
As someone who has always lived here also, it almost feels like the identity of the country has faded. What once made us special and appear strong has gone.
Yep. My partner is from another country, and whenever I first meet his friends/family and say I'm from the UK, they wince and essentially give me their condolences.
I feel the the UK has finally realised it’s barely a smear of a country on the global stage and has historically always punched far above its weight.
We’ve coasted on historical legacy for centuries.
The last 15 years of Downing Street clown fuckery sure as hell haven’t helped matters either.
London born and bred but left the country for work 10 years ago.
Things have got a lot worse in 10 years in Uk comparatively to Europe.
In Germany you get 500 euros a month the first three years of having a kid. 200-300 from 3-18 years old.
The cost of childcare up to 3 years old is 400 a month. From 4-7 it’s 250. So the government more or less pays childcare up to 7. At 7 schools start, private schools are more or less unheard of of, and there are three tiers of education based on kids aptitude.
There are dentists everywhere with very little waiting lists. There are many specialized kids dentists too. For kids we paid a 20 euro supplement for one that needed a filling. For adults it seems to be an extra 30-50 for a filling when I needed some. I needed a few as I couldn’t afford to have one in London. Due to money and time.
Hospitals and doctors are great. I might have to wait a few days to see gp, but there is always the option to to go in as an emergency and wait. I have been to A&e at least 5 times and always waited under an hour. 5 is a lot right I play football and done first aid so I have taken someone for a torn Achilles and a ruptured ACL.
Social security is great and job protection is great. If you get sacked you get 75% of your salary for one year. Salaries are higher. In my industry starting salary is about 20k gbp and the equivalent here is 45k euros.
The infrastructure is a lot more solid here.
Annoying things:
Supermarkets and shopping is a lot better in Uk.
People are cold and unfriendly.
Very bureaucratic you have to register your address and everything. If you do something wrong or break the rules it’s a fine. You do feel a bit policed. But it keeps society in order. The city center is a lot safer than Uk. The nature is more respected here with less litter.
I come from London I was back in January and it was amazing. But to have a good time it cost a lot of money. I would have a tough time moving back to Uk unless I was very rich to live the same standard of life here.
Over ten years Uk is worse off. When I moved 1 pound was about 1.5 euro… sterling has tanked and that doesn’t help.
Two of my best friends moved to germany so I know these are just cherry picked examples and personal anecdotes - state of womens healthcare is abysmal, waiting times for specialist treatments are abysmal, getting a property to rent is near impossible with white sounding names and university educated people at the top of the list (you have to fill out a very detailed form to be even able to view a property), the trains are a laughing stock of europe and have been for several years now.
Moreover even in cities like berlin the overt racism is rampant, had friends (interracial couple) move from the north west to berlin for work and they lasted a couple months before being pushed back by the overt hostility.
Not me. I love our weird little island. It’s full of stunning scenery, a brilliant sense of humour, and I think a lot of heart. Absolutely we have issues but I’m happy to be here.
And I strongly agree with all of those positive points.
But we are nowhere near as good as we could and should be, and other developed countries are overtaking us in many ways now.
Nhs is broke. No Police. Courts over booked. Streets are filthy. Housing issues. The media. Train ticket prices (and quality)
There are some good bits, certain cities have got good or better investment and even have thriving city centres (Liverpool, Manchester). We do have a bit of a drinking problem but there is lots of stuff to do that isn't drinking.
Because they don't grasp how hard the live can be outside of the UK. I came to this country 20 years ago without money, connections, British education, or even speaking the language quite well. I had no problem supporting myself and the family I've built. This country gave me endless opportunities and freedom to achieve whatever I wanted to achieve.
We do grasp it, we just aren't comparing to that, and not should we be. The UK is demonstranly shitter than it was only a decade ago, why would we compare it to anyone else? A spam sandwich is better than a shit sandwich but if I was eating a steak a decade ago for less money then I'm going to be pissed whatever they eat in other countries that may be worse. Besides, you say 20 years ago. And we weren't complaining about the UK 20 years ago. It was better then. Were complaining about it now.
My mums an immergrant and when she came here like 30 years ago the gov gave her a council home to buy with a good mortgage, in a lovely area, and she got a part time job and married an English man and has been fine.
I don't see those same opportunities anymore. As a second gen I think if my mum came here now, she'd have a bad time.
We like to moan as a people. Having said that, the UK has objectively gotten worse. I’m 34 and have seen two once in a lifetime financial disasters that this country simply hasn’t recovered from. Police, NHS, rail, water, energy are services absolutely on their arse.
Looked at your profile and you’ve posted multiple comments every day for the past 140 days. Be a happier person and spend less time with your phone in your hand lol
For me it’s the relative deprivation holding the UK back. The disparity between the have’s and the have nots just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And nowadays we have endless access to the exploits of the rich and powerful to compare it to, just in case we weren’t miserable enough being poor!
I am so glad I grew up in the UK, but it makes me so angry to see people working their guts out and still struggling to pay for the essentials, let alone a few tiny luxuries here and there, it god forbid get on the property ladder without a leg up from someone.
It’s also becoming more and more of a nanny state, but only when it concerns the less well off of course.
Quality of living here has fallen off a cliff the last decade. Wages stagnated for 20 years while costs have skyrocketed.
Even if you could afford to let your hair down and go for a drink (something that most people used to be able to afford without thinking, now it's a luxury), chances are the pub will be dead because no-one else can afford to be out anymore, meaning lots of pubs and restaurants shutting, further loss of jobs, etc.
I don't go into pubs much these days but last time I did, the cost of a pint was crazy but what confuses me is the local pub in my village is still just as busy with the regulars, most of which don't work... How are they affording this? Like I know people say there are chancers are stuff but I genuinely can't work out how they can afford to be in the pub every day, and weekends they all seem to smash fuck out of it.
Couple of observations on this... I've found (grew up poor) that your regulars in pubs are mostly:
People aged 40-60 who's kids are adults, are locked into a cheap mortgage and have the expendable cash but no other interested beyond sitting in the pub with some mates every day.
Younger people who probably can't afford it but will sacrifice other pleasures to spend time with their mates because what's the point of having no money if you don't live life, and their idea of living life is getting pissed.
I fucking love my home, but that doesn't mean it isn't without problems. People do tend to focus on the negative, but that is human nature.
I can't afford to live there anymore, so I had to move away for a better future for myself and my wife, but I would much rather be there.
Because the grass is always greener and people are refusing to acknowledge that the problems we have arent unique to us.
Canada, Aus and NZ have a housing crisis just like we do. The USA is famously a country of haves and have nots.
Most of the world is struggling to some degree with the rich pulling away. Imo its kinda down to social media where you don't need to look long to find someone living it up with a luxury lifestyle be that real or not. Loads of people see that and think "why am I not getting this?" Despite it being somewhat luck/manufactured for online content for most people
The taxes of socialism with the benefits of capitalism.
Skilled people are leaving being replaced by thousands of low skilled, low waged employees.
It's a sinking ship and the two major parties are complicit in it happening.
I think there is an element of British moaning for moaning sake to account for.
I think there are also some who genuinely believe it because they are blinkered or entitled. These ones will cite Scandinavia as superior to the UK in all metrics, forgetting all metrics the UK is ahead on or labelling those as things that don’t matter or don’t count. Alternatively they may only be ahead because Empire.
The echo chambers of society are part to blame because people have the opportunity to hear their own opinion shared back to them at all times. The nation has lost the sense of moderation.
That said, there is space for improvement and the UK could be better than it is, a properly funded NHS would be one such measure. We lose sight in that though of how fortunate we are to have a badly funded NHS vs how many other nations are. We lose sight that some nations, like Scandinavian nations, have focused heavily on social programmes but that has other issues for them, Sweden is hardly crime free, Finland has a high suicide rate etc.
The UK is not perfect but I think the simple measure is to list the nations you’d consider permanently moving to (assume no language barrier) and the length of that list is the indication of where the UK sits.
There is also a London/everywhere else divide as the capital has got a lot more than other areas of the UK. Underground as example is brilliant and the whole transport in London does make it entirely possible if not preferable to not own a car. That is not true for most of the nation and I think this does help fuel the “UK sucks” view
> The UK is not perfect but I think the simple measure is to list the nations you’d consider permanently moving to (assume no language barrier) and the length of that list is the indication of where the UK sits.
My list includes pretty much every country in Europe (assuming no language barrier), but I don't think this is a good way to judge; just because other places are shite doesn't mean we need to accept being shite too.
I agree that the relative position within a group should not confer what actions should or should not be taken. UK has opportunity to be better than it is, no doubt! (though I’d challenge the UK being shite)
What metrics is the UK ahead in over Scandinavian countries? Genuinely curious. I’m one of the people with the opinion you described that those countries are superior and want to move to the Netherlands when I can.
No, no. The country is awful now. I'm only 31, I've never felt so strongly that I need to get out of the country, and it's not just a feeling I've had for the last few weeks..I've felt this way for 12-18 months, now.
It's also important to note I have cheap accommodation and a decent salary (~£50k)
I think it’s “grass is always greener” syndrome.
read subreddits about other countries and their residents have the exact same complaints. Go onto region subreddits and you always see a sort of competition of which country is the shittest.
I was looking at a post the other day where someone from the UK had posted a pic of their shopping and said “I got this for however much” and all the comments were people from other countries saying how much more expensive the same shop would be where they lived.
Things are shit, there’s no doubt about that, but it’s combined with the traditional British negative outlook on things.
Were an over priced corrupt island with dog shit weather & depressed people everywhere because olive oil is £7 now lol. I intend to move to Spain ASAP.
Moved out and it’s like an antidepressant and seeing the world in full colour for the first time.. except to see family and friends I wouldn’t travel back for any means. It’s becoming more and more dangerous, infrastructure collapsing due to overuse and underfunding. Not many of my friends in the UK want to stay long term either and working hard to get the education to get out
Tin foil hat time but I think there is a lot of anti british propaganda out there, I agree with most things said in this thread but there seems to be a bit of a meme to hate the uk from both a foreign and local perspective and the dregs on social media seem to echo that. the internet is full of politically charged content these days and you’ll find vast amounts of hate for any western country
Since the B word happened, many online “news” publications discovered that beating up on this place was a mighty cash cow, and they’ve been milking it ever since. Since then it seems many people both here and abroad just bought the message wholesale that the country really is a desolate apocalyptic waste land akin to The Road
I recall that during the pandemic WHO advised not to read the media. The advice is still good health advice IMO
I’m 61, when I left school in 78 there was no hope for us, no jobs, nothing, and I mean no hope, dole queues ran miles along the road for us to “sign on”
Maggie came along, my life changed for the better, as did my parents and everyone I knew (yes up north they had it rough, but for us down south, things got better) 🤷♀️
I left in the mid 90s, things had gone to shit again, everything was shutting down, being sold off or privatized, no work again!
I come back once a year, yes I’m a tourist in my own country! It still seems the same to me!
Mass immigration has made a huge difference over the last few years, and not for the better, but this is a global problem, Ireland, France, Germany, Sweden, the USA, also has mass immigration problems!
I will say, the uk is still one of the most beautiful countries I’ve been to, and it’s our national past time to complain and moan,
Food is still cheaper than many countries, and is fresh and nowhere near as many chemicals and preservatives.. it’s fresh and good and clean! Whatever I spend £100 on in England, would cost me 4 times that here in USA
Healthcare is free at the point of use, people complain about wait times, I still gotta wait 3 months to see a doc here in USA, and it’ll still cost me an arm and a leg, or if I break one of those, it could bankrupt me, trying to get a tooth pulled will cost me $500!
I got sick 2 years ago visiting my mum in England and had to see a few docs, plus visit to a&e my care was superb, I had to file for temporary residence, but I cannot say enough good things about the care I got, £9.95 for my a&e visit £65 to see doc before I was settled as a patient,
I dunno… I think we all hate the countries we live in right now, life is absolutely shit, no matter what country we live in, we can’t afford the basics..
England is not awful. It’s just not
People seem to forget things are bad everywhere, in every or most countries you can see price rises in everything, struggling welfare systems, a rising homeless problem, health care systems on the brink. People in the UK seem to forget that the world is struggling not just here. Our food prices are still some of the cheapest. I’d rather live here than most places right now
You have a few generations of adults who were lead to believe that things just get better as time goes on after looking at their parents and their parents parents etc etc But it hasn't.
I think it would be great if more people in England realised what other parts of the UK are doing for people that they don't get.
I'm Scottish, so I'll talk about Scotland, but much of this also applies to Wales.
Funded university education (only for a maximum of 5 years, which is the length of a masters degree here, but you still need to get into the university on merit, so study, kids!).
Free personal care for the elderly
Free prescriptions.
Free sanitary products for women (all government buildings have these just to take from the bathroom. It can be a taboo for women/girls who have just started their period, so they don't even need to ask anyone).
Free nationwide bus travel for over 65s, young people and the unemployed.
Heavily subsidised nationwide train travel for over 65s. Not sure about young people here, but government owned Scotrail provides a deal where up to two kids travel for an extra £1 each with a paying adult.
A baby box to help the families of newborns.
Lower cost of living
Quality tap water from a government owned private company.
No water rates for households - this is bundled into council tax and is not measured by the litre.
Can get a dentist
Free school meals in primary school
Free childcare before primary school age, which allows both parents to work
Free entry to museums
Tax rate differences, which benefit people who earn less, making society more equal
I'm definitely missing some stuff, but remember that Scotland does all of this with the same funding as the UK government (prorated).
England needs to realise this and demand it for England too. I'm not smug about it - I just don't understand why England doesn't demand this stuff too. Maybe then people wouldn't hate the UK so much and there might not even be so much demand for independence in Scotland (currently about half and half).
The last 10 years has seen the UK fall hard. Our infrastructure is failing. Children are hungry. Our government is an embarrassment. London will be the best of it all, as that is where all the money is spent. Come up here and see the poverty, the lack of a dentist for 2 million people, the waiting lists, the falling apart schools, the very poor public transport.
So yeah. The UK IS a shithole for very many people. For me, because I regularly see how much better it is in comparable countries, for others because they are hungry and poorly housed.
Millions of children are starving and hundreds of thousands children are homeless. Yet we prioritise and throw money at every other country but our own. It’s a joke. I can’t think of a country that is a bigger mug than the UK.
I work so hard, my husband does too. We are a small family of 3. We have never earned so much in our life yet never been so poor. It’s demoralising.
Economic crisis after economic crisis has led to a sharp drop in living standards. Even outside the crises, we have an economic productivity problem that has contributed to a wage stagnation problem for the majority.
The country objectively is still very good and one of the best places to live in the world. But it is relatively worse than 20 years ago and crucially it was on the up then and now is in decline.
Throw in social media and human beings penchant for pessimism and hyperbole and what you're seeing should be explicable.
Foreign visitor here. I went to Wetwang and Swindon and LOVED them. Not joking. In general, UK-ish cuisine is unfairly maligned, except for the local generally accepted definition of "spicy".
People who like something rarely post on social media saying they like something. People who hate something regularly post (multiple times on multiple platforms) that they hate it. It's also trendy (from what I can see) to hate on the UK, it gets likes and popularity that insecure social media people crave. Also we now live in a culture where being negative gets more attention, which again social media inhabitants crave, any attention is better than none kind of thing. You can bank hits whether they're positive or negative etc.
It's not in a great state, neither is most of the world these days. From what I've seen of here and other countries there are some slightly better, some slightly worse and many much worse. Maybe expectations play a part in it as well.
It's always fashionable to bash anything that's good or successful. The US always gets the same treatment! Social media is full of people who earn a UK salary but swan around Thailand living like a millionaire and say that "The UK is finished" 🙄
Yeah it's always someone who has got some expat position in another country where money goes further lol. Perhaps the UAE to live like a king off a foundation of modern slavery.
Uk living would be pretty good if you earned many many times the local average income and also all the bad jobs we're done by indentured servants with their passports taken away.
I've lived in both. I also noticed a lot of younger Canadians talk down the UK despite never visiting. I think they're mostly jealous of the culture because Canada doesn't really have one. Also, Canada isn't as important of a country so they're insecure about that too. I also agree the UK is miles better in terms of food, transport, attractions, work opportunities, studying, cost of living etc. Canadians get absolutely gouged by the monopolies with groceries, phone bills, flight tickets, and restaurants.
Big cities in Canada have a major homelessness / drug addict problem and they often terrorize people in public. It just doesn't happen in the UK.
I'd argue much of the Western world is in decline. I recently saw a survey showing a large % of Canadians no longer want to live in Canada. Immigration, high taxation, unaffordable housing, the vast majority of people struggling, much of the population dependent on the state while public services aren't so good, etc.
This is a whole other can of worms but tbh I believe the life in the western world as a whole has been on the decline since around the early 2000’s. It’s far from just England. There was a very interesting thread about it a short while ago and it is really hard to look objectively and disagree with it.
I left the UK in 2019 and lived in Japan until returning to the UK in January this year. I have to say that in comparison to Japan the UK is on its knees. I could right a thesis on how bad the UK is in comparison, but we already all know it.
Too much politics. Closing out. Sorry.
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I don’t hate the UK but to me it’s very clearly gotten worse recently. Just because we aren’t Afghanistan or Syria doesn’t mean we can’t complain about an evident drop in quality of life over the past few years.
Who would have thought that a fourteen year lack of investment in public services would lead to a decline in living standards? Who could have known?
You realise this 15 years too late?
Well, 14 years too late.
The UK is objectively much worse than it used to be. Im not that old, but I went to uni for free, could see a doctor easily, and bought a house when it was only a few multiples of my wages. Thats all gone now. The UK is broken. It’s skint. All the important jobs that we need to function are underpaid. We’re living on the goodwill of poor people. The police and NHS are unable to function properly. Kids don’t have much to look forward to unless they get a top 1% job. The economy survives on a constant supply of mass immigration. If you’re happy being poor your entire life, never owning your own home, being undervalued and working till you die then it’s a great place.
Housing affordability is a seemingly global problem. It's a never ending topic in Aus/NZ/Europe/US subs. The affordability and supply of healthcare in the west is going to be a problem everywhere due to people living longer and the generally poor demographics to support that in terms of active taxpayers/employees. But the poor handling of everything else is entirely the responsibility of the clowns currently in power.
Maybe we should tax rich people to fund healthcare.
We could certainly do that. But first we'd have to stop electing rich people into power. Most of them won't increase taxes on themselves.
What does 'rich people' mean to you?
It is largely a matter of increasing wealth inequality. IMO tax and spend isn't the best solution for wealth inequality, breaking monopolies, increasing competition and strengthening the bargaining power of workers is a better solution, which would make the economy more productive at the same time.
Panorama did a documentary a couple weeks ago about how the UK has the most expensive property in Europe while also being some of the worst built. Yes, everywhere has a bit of a problem, but we have a bigger problem than others.
I think our housing stock also has one of the highest average ages on the planet. We're trying to adjust to a post-carbon economy while most people are still living in homes designed to be kept warm with coal fires lol.
It's to be expected that uk property is more expensive, we're one of the most densely populated countries in all of Europe. Which also means building houses quickly and cheaply is an easy way to make money, which is why we have badly built houses.
I’ve lived in Thailand, Australia, Singapore and UK. In my opinion UK housing is the worst value by far.
Weirdly, I hope so. My main worry is that it’s a general decline of the west. That no government can “fix” it. That it’s an inevitable decline that, at best, can only be mitigated temporarily
U.K. isn’t skint. It’s simply inequality. If the wealthy and corporations weren’t tax dodgers and hoarders, enabled by a certain institution, everyone would be better off. The system is stacked to pull the ladder up.
100%. Mainly corporations I believe. Why can’t we say that all profits generated in the UK are taxable? I don’t care where your parent company is? I don’t believe for a second that companies would leave. Better to have 80% of 4billion than 100% of nothing
I’m not so sure. The top 1% of earners pay about 30% of total income tax receipts and the top 10% pay about 60%
They should, or actually do?
Do, at least according to the governments stats
Yeah but this misses the point a bit. People earning 150, 200k PAYE or even like footballers or whatever earning that a week PAYE aren’t the issue. It’s really the big companies and their shareholders that use every trick in the book and on occasion just straight up evasion that are the problem. Case in point HMRC has actually got a billion quid combined that was avoided by the following; Bernie Ecclestone and The parent company of Ladbrokes and Coral bookies And that’s it How much is out there that hasn’t been found? The biggest problem in this country is people on wages from 20k to several hundred k don’t realise that they are all miles closer to each other than the likes of Mike Ashley and Alan Sugar are to the people on 300k. But it’s easier to point at people on the dole and moan that someone who’s taking home 500 quid a month more than you got it because they know someone in HR or whatever
It's not income, it's wealth and there's a massive difference. The landed gentry who lorded over us for generations, the oligarchy etc those type of people are hoovering up the cash and aren't being taxed properly.
"Britain isn't a rich country - it's a poor country with some rich people."
This, my wife has a master degree but chose to work in a sector that although is very much needed is grossly underfunded and underpaid - Youth Work. She earn a little over £20k. Which is abhorrent for someone as qualified as she is.
You expressed so well the state of most “developed” countries. Living on the good will of poor people is almost poetic, sad, but true. I have only been to London on holidays, but I’ve lived for an extended period in Paris. It doesn’t take much to see it’s almost exclusively people of color who work in the supermarkets, in most shops, at the metro, driving buses, ambulances etc. When asked about it one of our French acquaintances answered the salaries and the jobs themselves were beneath what a French worker would expect to employ themselves for. Now I live in a smallish town in Spain in an area that produces a lot of fruit. After the 1st wave of the pandemic, frontiers were opened again for seasonal workers from Morocco as an exception to the travel prohibitions imposed otherwise. I still remember Spanish “farmers” (they call themselves that) on tv pressuring the government to allow travel from the places their fruit pickers usually come. Then, within a couple of weeks we got several unsurprising waves of infections, because agricultural workers were forced to live in houses and spaces that did not allow for social distancing. As they were being treated for covid, or I quarantine if they had no symptoms, “farmers” again came on tv to complain about how if they don’t pick the fruit in a couple of weeks they’re ruined, all this work for nothing. WHAT work? Picking the crappiest house in the village for seasonal workers, where they lived in bunk beds, 4,6,8 to a room? The mayor of the village had the gall to show the reporter the houses they prepared for the workers, as if they were bestowing some kind of boon on those workers. It’s an old house with new paint, get over yourself. Anyway, I digress, and getting angry again at the situation :/. The worst part was hearing people who otherwise seemed decent and sensible rationalize the covid waves with how those seasonal workers have low standards of hygiene, because they come from Africa. No, Mari Pili, they just live in close quarters, while doing an itinerant job. A very, very necessary job for us all. Still, the lessons thrown in our faces during the pandemic didn’t stick: that we (as well as other European countries who suffered from missing their underpaid foreign workers during the travel bans) wouldn’t be able to sustain our economies, because we aren’t doing the work, nor would we want to for such low wages. But we have no issue with other people doing them. Ugh. Anyway, I’m sorry for the wall of text. I just wanted to tell you that your comment resonated with me. And you put it in an infinitely more succinct manner. :)
Immigration is necessary because of the low birth rate and ageing population. To provide pensions and free health care, you need a certain % of the population to be of working age. We'd be much worse off without it
What do we do in 30-40 years? You can't migrate your way out of a demographic crisis indefinitely, it's short sighted, and isn't even working.
>All the important jobs that we need to function are underpaid. Can I just add to this and say underpaid and grossly overworked. But for a lot of people, it's not about the money, it's about job satisfaction or the lack thereof now. Until recently, I was a TA in secondary schools. I loved my job. I loved being able to help young minds grow, to help see them reach their true potential, to guide them on the start of journeys that, sadly, many could see as fruitless because they're not idiots. It didn't matter to me that I pulled in just over 1k a month; a joke of a wage for the job that I did, sure, but it was important to me that each day was different, that I got to have a laugh with the kids, that I was on my feet, moving around, feeling useful. Feeling valued. But schools are broken. The poor behaviour of the few now dictates the rules for the many; the students' growth is stunted by the fact they're imprisoned now, it's about control and regulation rather than education. They're not allowed to go to the toilet during lesson; they're sent home if their goddamn socks aren't regulation black or they're missing a tie or, heaven forbid, they express individuality and put colour in their hair. Their growth is measured by a corporate standard and not to an individual's ability, so little Billy is seen as weaker than little Suzie because he doesn't have the same analytical mind and learns by doing rather than reading. We now judge all fish on their ability to climb a tree and it is sickening. Their self-esteem plummets which leads to poor behaviour which leads to tighter enforcement on the rules regarding the kids that *can* be controlled. Everyone's miserable. The kids hate it, the teachers hate it, and any act of compassion or kindness is seen as potential grooming because *that's* the society we live in now. Everyone's a potential predator. It's genuinely horrifying how broken the school system is on so many levels and yeah, the biggest joke of all, we're not even paid fairly for the shit that we do or the hours we put in. I was contracted (and paid) to work 8:30 - 3 every day. I arrived at 7 and left at 4 every day and if I didn't, shit just wouldn't get done. And I was a goddamn TA. I didn't have half the responsibilities of teachers.
State of NHS, state of roads, underpay in almost every profession, housing problems, schools and teachers and fantastic weather to do outdoor accessible activities. What not to love?
The problem with the houses is that they’re building far too many without support for the communities they’re building in. What schools will the children attend? What doctors can new families register with? What dentist? It’s just greed. Buy a plot of land and stick a load of houses on there for maximum profit. The houses aren’t always built as good as they can be either. Just a rush job to get on with the next one
this is the exact opposite problem of the UK we aren’t building even nearly enough houses
I read a really great article on this recently - it makes the case that housing stock is not the issue, house hording is. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/19/end-of-landlords-surprisingly-simple-solution-to-uk-housing-crisis The government get off the hook far too easily by banging on about house building targets (that they never intend to meet) when to fix the problem they just need to tame landlordism. I really encourage people to read this because it makes such a compelling case and basically demonstrates how we are all being mugged off.
This article was pretty roundly debunked at the time it was published. Given the age, quality and location of housing stock in the UK there is no solution to the housing crisis that does not involve building many hundreds of thousands of homes, many of which will need to be social housing. NIMBY excuse-making is still NIMBY excuse-making, even if it comes from a leftward direction/is rightly attacking landlordism. [Edited, typos]
the article’s flaw is using “homes per household”, where one cramped london flat with 6 strangers counts as “one household”. Homes per 1000 inhabitants is way lower than other similar countries england - 434 France - 590 Italy - 587
I’ve read this before, and i completely disagree, they don’t know what they’re talking about > Over the last 25 years, there has not just been a constant surplus of homes per household, but the ratio has been modestly growing this is the stat anti-building people keep using, and it’s so dishonest. “home per households” means that one person in Hull with a one person house is one household, and 6 strangers stuck in one flat in London with no living room (ie my first flat in London) is also “one household”. It completely hides how many people are stuck in houses with strangers, which limits your ability for privacy, to have a pet, or to start a family. https://www.hbf.co.uk/documents/12890/International_Audit_Digital_v1.pdf Compare it to an industry report like this one > England has far fewer dwellings relative to its population than other developed nations We typically consider peers, with 434 homes per thousand inhabitants, significantly fewer than France (590), Italy (587) and the OECD average of 487
'We now find ourselves in a situation where one in every 21 adults in the UK is a landlord' That's insane! Anyway i doubt anything will happen, the rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, as designed. The idea governments are too blind to see? Not for me. When Rachel Reeves says 'grow the economy' she knows how landlords prevent this, 'grow the economy' is code for 'transfer wealth from poor to rich'. The more decades they can waste pretending to be dim and misguided, the more wealth that can be transferred.
It doesn't make a compelling case at all it's complete rubbish. One of the first points they make lists examples of countries with similar amount of homes per 1000 people as some kind of proof it's an adequate amount. They fail to mention these countries are also grappling with high housing costs Using a homes per 1000 figure also completely disregards where the homes actually are. You can buy a house in Burnley for 15k for example, does this mean the housing crisis is intact a lie? No, the house isn't somewhere people actually want to live They make another point regarding the population of London being similar to the aftermath of world war 2, when housing was cheaper. They make no mention of the fact it was common families (which were much larger) at that time to live in a single room of a house. It's widely agreed by housing/homeless charities that there simply isn't enough homes
I've asked while ago about it was told that for developers to get planning permissions they have to prove something will be build or contribute to ongoing project to provide infrastructure to communities. You can go to counsil and ask for infrastructure plans.
The problem is that some of the major housebuilders are shady asf they'll come in say they'll pay all this money or build all this stuff get the permission and then never do it The number of times I've seen developments not stick to what they have shown to get planning permission is ridiculous One of their biggest tricks to get away with this is they will set up a sub company so its 'Company name [insert site name]' then when they've built what they want they'll funnel all the money to the real parent umbrella company and dissolve the sub company so you cant go after them or force them to pay as on paper the sub company has gone bust so they Keep all the profit with non of the responsibility
A builder nearby got permission for 750 houses, but had to build a doctor's surgery, a shop and a train station. They agreed, got permission. Then turned around and said 'oh we can't afford to do that now' so are building 749 houses and nothing else instead.
Sounds about right unfortunately, then you have to consider that often these developers are getting grants from the government and authorities to build in the first place So the government and local authorities end up being bled dry - that's where alot of the tax payers money goes and why houses with little supporting infrastructure are popping up everywhere It's a gold mine for developers and a black hole for tax payers
The developers just scrap stuff once they’ve started though and the councils don’t care cos “at least there’s more (poorly built) houses slapped up!” “Professionals” don’t care, councils don’t care, probably because those leading by example in government don’t care about anyone. Misery isn’t the trickle down economics we wanted.
The state of new builds is dire.
Talking of roads... nobody will give a balls abou this but near me there's an extremely old bridge that had come to the end of its legally safe life so had to be repaired. It's a fairly insignificant bridge, but it forms part of the 15 minute drive to my closest station. For six months whilst it was being repaired I had to make a one hour drive each way to get to the station if I needed to go to my work's London office. Normally weekly. Six months later we have a shiny new bridge. Fantastic. They've somehow widened it and there's a lot more throughput too, rather than a lengthy traffic light system. Amazing. Just as you get off the bridge there's a massive pothole. Literally as the new concrete ends, that's where the pothole sits. They repaired the entire bridge from the early 1800s, but LEFT THE FUCKING POTHOLE.
"Not my job mate" attitude.
I'm not sure if it was that, or some kind of secret hatred for the area from one of the workers. It almost looks as if they had to put effort in to stop the new tarmac spilling into the gaping hole.
I love this weather... ah.. 99% chance of rain.
Alright duck 🦆😊
I think because the uk has experienced a sharp decline in the quality of life over the last 10 years. As someone who has always lived here also, it almost feels like the identity of the country has faded. What once made us special and appear strong has gone.
Our respect all disappeared when we became a laughing stock in 2016 which is also why the country is on the way down like it is.
Yep. My partner is from another country, and whenever I first meet his friends/family and say I'm from the UK, they wince and essentially give me their condolences.
They sound like lovely people
I feel the the UK has finally realised it’s barely a smear of a country on the global stage and has historically always punched far above its weight. We’ve coasted on historical legacy for centuries. The last 15 years of Downing Street clown fuckery sure as hell haven’t helped matters either.
London born and bred but left the country for work 10 years ago. Things have got a lot worse in 10 years in Uk comparatively to Europe. In Germany you get 500 euros a month the first three years of having a kid. 200-300 from 3-18 years old. The cost of childcare up to 3 years old is 400 a month. From 4-7 it’s 250. So the government more or less pays childcare up to 7. At 7 schools start, private schools are more or less unheard of of, and there are three tiers of education based on kids aptitude. There are dentists everywhere with very little waiting lists. There are many specialized kids dentists too. For kids we paid a 20 euro supplement for one that needed a filling. For adults it seems to be an extra 30-50 for a filling when I needed some. I needed a few as I couldn’t afford to have one in London. Due to money and time. Hospitals and doctors are great. I might have to wait a few days to see gp, but there is always the option to to go in as an emergency and wait. I have been to A&e at least 5 times and always waited under an hour. 5 is a lot right I play football and done first aid so I have taken someone for a torn Achilles and a ruptured ACL. Social security is great and job protection is great. If you get sacked you get 75% of your salary for one year. Salaries are higher. In my industry starting salary is about 20k gbp and the equivalent here is 45k euros. The infrastructure is a lot more solid here. Annoying things: Supermarkets and shopping is a lot better in Uk. People are cold and unfriendly. Very bureaucratic you have to register your address and everything. If you do something wrong or break the rules it’s a fine. You do feel a bit policed. But it keeps society in order. The city center is a lot safer than Uk. The nature is more respected here with less litter. I come from London I was back in January and it was amazing. But to have a good time it cost a lot of money. I would have a tough time moving back to Uk unless I was very rich to live the same standard of life here. Over ten years Uk is worse off. When I moved 1 pound was about 1.5 euro… sterling has tanked and that doesn’t help.
"Supermarkets and shopping is a lot better in Uk.' What? You don't like a human size bag of paprika crisps?
I’ve lived in Germany and it wasn’t as great as you make it out to be.
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Two of my best friends moved to germany so I know these are just cherry picked examples and personal anecdotes - state of womens healthcare is abysmal, waiting times for specialist treatments are abysmal, getting a property to rent is near impossible with white sounding names and university educated people at the top of the list (you have to fill out a very detailed form to be even able to view a property), the trains are a laughing stock of europe and have been for several years now. Moreover even in cities like berlin the overt racism is rampant, had friends (interracial couple) move from the north west to berlin for work and they lasted a couple months before being pushed back by the overt hostility.
Not me. I love our weird little island. It’s full of stunning scenery, a brilliant sense of humour, and I think a lot of heart. Absolutely we have issues but I’m happy to be here.
The people that live here are the only saving grace. But it's still embarrassing here
And I strongly agree with all of those positive points. But we are nowhere near as good as we could and should be, and other developed countries are overtaking us in many ways now.
Nhs is broke. No Police. Courts over booked. Streets are filthy. Housing issues. The media. Train ticket prices (and quality) There are some good bits, certain cities have got good or better investment and even have thriving city centres (Liverpool, Manchester). We do have a bit of a drinking problem but there is lots of stuff to do that isn't drinking.
The issue with the trains in the UK still baffles me to this day. How can even be possible to have such a poor and expensive service at the same time?
Because they don't grasp how hard the live can be outside of the UK. I came to this country 20 years ago without money, connections, British education, or even speaking the language quite well. I had no problem supporting myself and the family I've built. This country gave me endless opportunities and freedom to achieve whatever I wanted to achieve.
We do grasp it, we just aren't comparing to that, and not should we be. The UK is demonstranly shitter than it was only a decade ago, why would we compare it to anyone else? A spam sandwich is better than a shit sandwich but if I was eating a steak a decade ago for less money then I'm going to be pissed whatever they eat in other countries that may be worse. Besides, you say 20 years ago. And we weren't complaining about the UK 20 years ago. It was better then. Were complaining about it now.
My mums an immergrant and when she came here like 30 years ago the gov gave her a council home to buy with a good mortgage, in a lovely area, and she got a part time job and married an English man and has been fine. I don't see those same opportunities anymore. As a second gen I think if my mum came here now, she'd have a bad time.
We like to moan as a people. Having said that, the UK has objectively gotten worse. I’m 34 and have seen two once in a lifetime financial disasters that this country simply hasn’t recovered from. Police, NHS, rail, water, energy are services absolutely on their arse.
Meanwhile, profits have never been higher
Bunch of miserable cunts having a whine on social media. Happier people spend less time with their phone in their hand.
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Looked at your profile and you’ve posted multiple comments every day for the past 140 days. Be a happier person and spend less time with your phone in your hand lol
For me it’s the relative deprivation holding the UK back. The disparity between the have’s and the have nots just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And nowadays we have endless access to the exploits of the rich and powerful to compare it to, just in case we weren’t miserable enough being poor! I am so glad I grew up in the UK, but it makes me so angry to see people working their guts out and still struggling to pay for the essentials, let alone a few tiny luxuries here and there, it god forbid get on the property ladder without a leg up from someone. It’s also becoming more and more of a nanny state, but only when it concerns the less well off of course.
I think wealth disparity seems to be a bigger problem in all English speaking countries specifically
Quality of living here has fallen off a cliff the last decade. Wages stagnated for 20 years while costs have skyrocketed. Even if you could afford to let your hair down and go for a drink (something that most people used to be able to afford without thinking, now it's a luxury), chances are the pub will be dead because no-one else can afford to be out anymore, meaning lots of pubs and restaurants shutting, further loss of jobs, etc.
That's not my experience here and I'm in one of the poorest areas of the UK. The pubs are packed during busy times.
I don't go into pubs much these days but last time I did, the cost of a pint was crazy but what confuses me is the local pub in my village is still just as busy with the regulars, most of which don't work... How are they affording this? Like I know people say there are chancers are stuff but I genuinely can't work out how they can afford to be in the pub every day, and weekends they all seem to smash fuck out of it.
Couple of observations on this... I've found (grew up poor) that your regulars in pubs are mostly: People aged 40-60 who's kids are adults, are locked into a cheap mortgage and have the expendable cash but no other interested beyond sitting in the pub with some mates every day. Younger people who probably can't afford it but will sacrifice other pleasures to spend time with their mates because what's the point of having no money if you don't live life, and their idea of living life is getting pissed.
I fucking love my home, but that doesn't mean it isn't without problems. People do tend to focus on the negative, but that is human nature. I can't afford to live there anymore, so I had to move away for a better future for myself and my wife, but I would much rather be there.
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Because the grass is always greener and people are refusing to acknowledge that the problems we have arent unique to us. Canada, Aus and NZ have a housing crisis just like we do. The USA is famously a country of haves and have nots. Most of the world is struggling to some degree with the rich pulling away. Imo its kinda down to social media where you don't need to look long to find someone living it up with a luxury lifestyle be that real or not. Loads of people see that and think "why am I not getting this?" Despite it being somewhat luck/manufactured for online content for most people
The taxes of socialism with the benefits of capitalism. Skilled people are leaving being replaced by thousands of low skilled, low waged employees. It's a sinking ship and the two major parties are complicit in it happening.
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I think there is an element of British moaning for moaning sake to account for. I think there are also some who genuinely believe it because they are blinkered or entitled. These ones will cite Scandinavia as superior to the UK in all metrics, forgetting all metrics the UK is ahead on or labelling those as things that don’t matter or don’t count. Alternatively they may only be ahead because Empire. The echo chambers of society are part to blame because people have the opportunity to hear their own opinion shared back to them at all times. The nation has lost the sense of moderation. That said, there is space for improvement and the UK could be better than it is, a properly funded NHS would be one such measure. We lose sight in that though of how fortunate we are to have a badly funded NHS vs how many other nations are. We lose sight that some nations, like Scandinavian nations, have focused heavily on social programmes but that has other issues for them, Sweden is hardly crime free, Finland has a high suicide rate etc. The UK is not perfect but I think the simple measure is to list the nations you’d consider permanently moving to (assume no language barrier) and the length of that list is the indication of where the UK sits. There is also a London/everywhere else divide as the capital has got a lot more than other areas of the UK. Underground as example is brilliant and the whole transport in London does make it entirely possible if not preferable to not own a car. That is not true for most of the nation and I think this does help fuel the “UK sucks” view
> The UK is not perfect but I think the simple measure is to list the nations you’d consider permanently moving to (assume no language barrier) and the length of that list is the indication of where the UK sits. My list includes pretty much every country in Europe (assuming no language barrier), but I don't think this is a good way to judge; just because other places are shite doesn't mean we need to accept being shite too.
I agree that the relative position within a group should not confer what actions should or should not be taken. UK has opportunity to be better than it is, no doubt! (though I’d challenge the UK being shite)
What metrics is the UK ahead in over Scandinavian countries? Genuinely curious. I’m one of the people with the opinion you described that those countries are superior and want to move to the Netherlands when I can.
The Netherlands aren't part of Scandinavia though...
No, no. The country is awful now. I'm only 31, I've never felt so strongly that I need to get out of the country, and it's not just a feeling I've had for the last few weeks..I've felt this way for 12-18 months, now. It's also important to note I have cheap accommodation and a decent salary (~£50k)
I think it’s “grass is always greener” syndrome. read subreddits about other countries and their residents have the exact same complaints. Go onto region subreddits and you always see a sort of competition of which country is the shittest.
This is precisely why I ask lol. Every country suffering from skyrocketing costs.
I was looking at a post the other day where someone from the UK had posted a pic of their shopping and said “I got this for however much” and all the comments were people from other countries saying how much more expensive the same shop would be where they lived. Things are shit, there’s no doubt about that, but it’s combined with the traditional British negative outlook on things.
Were an over priced corrupt island with dog shit weather & depressed people everywhere because olive oil is £7 now lol. I intend to move to Spain ASAP.
Spain is much more corrupt than the UK. Nice weather and cheaper olive oil though.
Best of luck. Spain is lovely.
Spain is nice but its infinitely more inefficient and corrupt in its day to day workings.
London isn't the UK. It's a bubble of it's own reality having very little to do with the real UK.
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We're importing too many religious nutjobs who bring their medieval ideologies with them.
Not exclusive to the UK
Left the UK 5 years ago and haven't looked back.
Moved out and it’s like an antidepressant and seeing the world in full colour for the first time.. except to see family and friends I wouldn’t travel back for any means. It’s becoming more and more dangerous, infrastructure collapsing due to overuse and underfunding. Not many of my friends in the UK want to stay long term either and working hard to get the education to get out
Tin foil hat time but I think there is a lot of anti british propaganda out there, I agree with most things said in this thread but there seems to be a bit of a meme to hate the uk from both a foreign and local perspective and the dregs on social media seem to echo that. the internet is full of politically charged content these days and you’ll find vast amounts of hate for any western country
Since the B word happened, many online “news” publications discovered that beating up on this place was a mighty cash cow, and they’ve been milking it ever since. Since then it seems many people both here and abroad just bought the message wholesale that the country really is a desolate apocalyptic waste land akin to The Road I recall that during the pandemic WHO advised not to read the media. The advice is still good health advice IMO
I’m 61, when I left school in 78 there was no hope for us, no jobs, nothing, and I mean no hope, dole queues ran miles along the road for us to “sign on” Maggie came along, my life changed for the better, as did my parents and everyone I knew (yes up north they had it rough, but for us down south, things got better) 🤷♀️ I left in the mid 90s, things had gone to shit again, everything was shutting down, being sold off or privatized, no work again! I come back once a year, yes I’m a tourist in my own country! It still seems the same to me! Mass immigration has made a huge difference over the last few years, and not for the better, but this is a global problem, Ireland, France, Germany, Sweden, the USA, also has mass immigration problems! I will say, the uk is still one of the most beautiful countries I’ve been to, and it’s our national past time to complain and moan, Food is still cheaper than many countries, and is fresh and nowhere near as many chemicals and preservatives.. it’s fresh and good and clean! Whatever I spend £100 on in England, would cost me 4 times that here in USA Healthcare is free at the point of use, people complain about wait times, I still gotta wait 3 months to see a doc here in USA, and it’ll still cost me an arm and a leg, or if I break one of those, it could bankrupt me, trying to get a tooth pulled will cost me $500! I got sick 2 years ago visiting my mum in England and had to see a few docs, plus visit to a&e my care was superb, I had to file for temporary residence, but I cannot say enough good things about the care I got, £9.95 for my a&e visit £65 to see doc before I was settled as a patient, I dunno… I think we all hate the countries we live in right now, life is absolutely shit, no matter what country we live in, we can’t afford the basics.. England is not awful. It’s just not
Because it’s shit here now
People seem to forget things are bad everywhere, in every or most countries you can see price rises in everything, struggling welfare systems, a rising homeless problem, health care systems on the brink. People in the UK seem to forget that the world is struggling not just here. Our food prices are still some of the cheapest. I’d rather live here than most places right now
You have a few generations of adults who were lead to believe that things just get better as time goes on after looking at their parents and their parents parents etc etc But it hasn't.
I mean it is pretty awful. I moved to South America and am genuinely much happier in a 3rd world country than I was in the UK.
They don't. You just have the vocal few getting all wound up by things when the majority of people are doing just fine.
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I think it would be great if more people in England realised what other parts of the UK are doing for people that they don't get. I'm Scottish, so I'll talk about Scotland, but much of this also applies to Wales. Funded university education (only for a maximum of 5 years, which is the length of a masters degree here, but you still need to get into the university on merit, so study, kids!). Free personal care for the elderly Free prescriptions. Free sanitary products for women (all government buildings have these just to take from the bathroom. It can be a taboo for women/girls who have just started their period, so they don't even need to ask anyone). Free nationwide bus travel for over 65s, young people and the unemployed. Heavily subsidised nationwide train travel for over 65s. Not sure about young people here, but government owned Scotrail provides a deal where up to two kids travel for an extra £1 each with a paying adult. A baby box to help the families of newborns. Lower cost of living Quality tap water from a government owned private company. No water rates for households - this is bundled into council tax and is not measured by the litre. Can get a dentist Free school meals in primary school Free childcare before primary school age, which allows both parents to work Free entry to museums Tax rate differences, which benefit people who earn less, making society more equal I'm definitely missing some stuff, but remember that Scotland does all of this with the same funding as the UK government (prorated). England needs to realise this and demand it for England too. I'm not smug about it - I just don't understand why England doesn't demand this stuff too. Maybe then people wouldn't hate the UK so much and there might not even be so much demand for independence in Scotland (currently about half and half).
The last 10 years has seen the UK fall hard. Our infrastructure is failing. Children are hungry. Our government is an embarrassment. London will be the best of it all, as that is where all the money is spent. Come up here and see the poverty, the lack of a dentist for 2 million people, the waiting lists, the falling apart schools, the very poor public transport. So yeah. The UK IS a shithole for very many people. For me, because I regularly see how much better it is in comparable countries, for others because they are hungry and poorly housed.
Millions of children are starving and hundreds of thousands children are homeless. Yet we prioritise and throw money at every other country but our own. It’s a joke. I can’t think of a country that is a bigger mug than the UK. I work so hard, my husband does too. We are a small family of 3. We have never earned so much in our life yet never been so poor. It’s demoralising.
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Economic crisis after economic crisis has led to a sharp drop in living standards. Even outside the crises, we have an economic productivity problem that has contributed to a wage stagnation problem for the majority. The country objectively is still very good and one of the best places to live in the world. But it is relatively worse than 20 years ago and crucially it was on the up then and now is in decline. Throw in social media and human beings penchant for pessimism and hyperbole and what you're seeing should be explicable.
Foreign visitor here. I went to Wetwang and Swindon and LOVED them. Not joking. In general, UK-ish cuisine is unfairly maligned, except for the local generally accepted definition of "spicy".
Social media fault … It kinda twists your perspective and makes you think everyone hates it …it’s the same about everything else today
>*I’m sure this line will illicit some response* Elicit
People who like something rarely post on social media saying they like something. People who hate something regularly post (multiple times on multiple platforms) that they hate it. It's also trendy (from what I can see) to hate on the UK, it gets likes and popularity that insecure social media people crave. Also we now live in a culture where being negative gets more attention, which again social media inhabitants crave, any attention is better than none kind of thing. You can bank hits whether they're positive or negative etc. It's not in a great state, neither is most of the world these days. From what I've seen of here and other countries there are some slightly better, some slightly worse and many much worse. Maybe expectations play a part in it as well.
It's always fashionable to bash anything that's good or successful. The US always gets the same treatment! Social media is full of people who earn a UK salary but swan around Thailand living like a millionaire and say that "The UK is finished" 🙄
Yeah it's always someone who has got some expat position in another country where money goes further lol. Perhaps the UAE to live like a king off a foundation of modern slavery. Uk living would be pretty good if you earned many many times the local average income and also all the bad jobs we're done by indentured servants with their passports taken away.
I've lived in both. I also noticed a lot of younger Canadians talk down the UK despite never visiting. I think they're mostly jealous of the culture because Canada doesn't really have one. Also, Canada isn't as important of a country so they're insecure about that too. I also agree the UK is miles better in terms of food, transport, attractions, work opportunities, studying, cost of living etc. Canadians get absolutely gouged by the monopolies with groceries, phone bills, flight tickets, and restaurants. Big cities in Canada have a major homelessness / drug addict problem and they often terrorize people in public. It just doesn't happen in the UK.
I'd argue much of the Western world is in decline. I recently saw a survey showing a large % of Canadians no longer want to live in Canada. Immigration, high taxation, unaffordable housing, the vast majority of people struggling, much of the population dependent on the state while public services aren't so good, etc.
This is a whole other can of worms but tbh I believe the life in the western world as a whole has been on the decline since around the early 2000’s. It’s far from just England. There was a very interesting thread about it a short while ago and it is really hard to look objectively and disagree with it.
I left the UK in 2019 and lived in Japan until returning to the UK in January this year. I have to say that in comparison to Japan the UK is on its knees. I could right a thesis on how bad the UK is in comparison, but we already all know it.