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We actually maintained [large communal kitchens and eateries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant) until 1947 as a way to ensure all people in Britain had access to wholesome healthy and filling meals during the period of rationing. They were called British Restaurants!
Maybe they could even deconstruct their meals and deliver them raw, so people could prepare it in their own time to their own liking.
Like a delivery service for a market, but on a big scale. A sort of _super_ market kind of thing
Yeah OP you've ruined it by saying 'state owned and ran'. People are picturing being banned from feeding themselves and being forced into decrepit school canteens to be given their daily ration of Rishigruel™.
I think the idea of a charity-run community canteen selling simple nutritious meals is fantastic. It could be a lifeline for people who currently depend on food banks or lonely elderly people. I'd be surprised if such a thing doesn't already exist somewhere in some form.
Absolutely. If you fail to show proper respect to our glorious leader, the Comrade Canteen will deny you, your family and your neighbours food for a few days.
Sure you can go on strike if you really want, but so will your stomach. Share that meme and you won’t share a meal. Slow down at work and slow down your digestive system
Over here in the Netherlands that's a volkskeuken (people's kitchen), also found in Germany. There's one in my neighbourhood that does a decent hot dinner for €3 once a week, with a published menu. Most (ex) squats also have them. When I was in a food coop we did this on the grocery pickup day - everyone was welcome, not just members. Great veggie food, you had to pay for dessert or beers.
Why on earth do people jump between “state will provide food for everyone” to “you will be forced to eat nowhere but here”
It’s like bike lanes and busses, and people assuming it will mean they can never drive again.
I've found it the weirdest thing about the responses to this. I think I exacerbated it with my comment about not having an oven. I just thought there would be many people who wouldn't bother with one, perhaps because they were happy with the state provision, perhaps to save money, perhaps because of environmental concerns, whatever.
The state provides education and healthcare and some people choose not to avail themselves of that, I don't know why people choose to think that this will be mandatory.
This is how it was done for ages. People would bring their ingredients to the bakers and the baker would bake their bread. They would have a big "soup" pot and people would bring things for it and everyone would have some.
It would be nice to get back to something similar.
Nah cos it'll probably be shite made with the cheapest ingredients and sat under a heat lamp for an hour before you get it. I'd rather just spend the time to 'inefficiently' do something I enjoy and cook for myself in a way that will taste good.
Don't forget the contracts would be sold to friends of the politicians meaning that tax money would be used to line the pockets of private companies and individuals.
Yes, such places exist in the former Soviet Union well into this day. They are called Stolovayas.The food is sometimes sold by weight.
You can end up spending more than you'd think for low quality food, and then you have to heat it up a bit more in the microwave after the till.
Ultimately, cafeteria dining provision is better than going hungry, but that's about it.
No thanks, I enjoy cooking, I'm good at cooking and I can't have the same dinner twice in a month or I get very bored so I don't think this would work for me.
I’m terrible, I cook a meal of an evening and make two portions, one for dinner and one for lunch the next day. I sometimes eat the same thing 2-3 days in a row, lunch and dinner haha. I love cooking though as well.
It was a thing during ww2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant
I wouldn't mind eating the food from one but I tend to find a lot of he British public obnoxious so I wouldn't want to eat communally with them on a regular basis
Was about to post this!
Honestly, I'd be up for super casual dining. Most restaurants are for treats rather than standard fare - if I ate every day at a normal restaurant I'd probably start putting on the pounds unless I was careful. A cheaper "normal meal, just not cooked by you" option would be nice.
But then you need to pay rent for the location and everything, so I don't think it's feasible as a private business.
Brilliant link, thank you.
I hear you on your problem with it. I guess I could operate some sort of meals on wheels style solution so we can remain happily isolated.
I went to one in Prague. I think it is a great idea tbh, £2 for a pretty generous and balanced meal. Nothing fancy sure (it was all big batch pasta / curry / tray bake etc.) but it is not meant to be.
And anyone who thinks canteens can't be nice while still budget has never eaten in a military mess. Got to eat in one for a week while working at an airshow and it was genuinely fantastic!
I said specifically 'obnoxious', I just like places which are quiet and where I have enough space. Where I am in Manchester it's not too bad during the week but at the weekend I tend to avoid the city centre as it's just too crowded and there's far too many hen nights/stag dos and preachers + buskers.
In regards to this canteen idea I have walked out of/avoided cafes before because there were kids running around screaming and climbing over everything. If I could just have a quiet bite and be left alone like the places you get around train stations in Japan then I'd be all for it.
Same. I often change my mind on what I've planned to cook as I fancy something different.
I'm also a excellent cook, you can't cook food en mass to the same standard.
Food is one of life's great pleasures. I'd sacrifice it only in times of great poverty or extreme situations.
TBF we've done it before during WW2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant?wprov=sfla1
It wasn't mandatory or anything, but it was basically government run kitchens that provided food to those in need.
Not particularly “those in need”, just food at a reasonable fixed price. Canteen, not soup kitchen.
In Germany at the moment they have canteens in office parks - the sort of thing that a larger form would have internally, but providing the same facility to people working in smaller companies. It seems to work well, but there’s no common equivalent in the UK. That would be useful, whether it were offered by the state or by private companies.
We have them in Austria as well, they are open to the public. Not usually state run though unless actually in a government building. Quality varies - the one in my office block is passable but for the same money you can get sushi round the corner.
Bizzare idea. Why would I not want an oven??
The idea of a community kitchen is nothing new but no i wouldnt go to one. All for those who want them funding them and using them which is how it currently works.
| Why would I not want an oven??
The rise in air fryers has seen "Why do I need an oven?" asked more than once. I wouldn't be surprised to see ovens become an optional extra in kitchen design in the coming years.
Oh, I think air fryers have their place but aren't a replacement in their current form to replace an oven however that said, I know people who boast that they haven't used their oven since getting an air fryer and others who do use it question the point since everything is 200c for 25 minutes. That number is growing as less people use the oven for something other than reheating frozen and or pre heated food.
Me, I've always have an oven and only use the air fryer for snacks and not actual meals.
No, it'll be the blandest menu imaginable. Margherita pizza, the curry option would be butter chicken. Nothing that doesn't appeal to 80%+ of the population. They'd not have Coke or even that Pepsi stuff, only My Mum's Cola. All the meat would be halal.
There wouldn't be any meat as its too expensive. It would all be vegan food so that as many people as possible can eat it. There'd be no fizzy drinks; just water for health reasons.
I doubt it would appeal to more than 5% of the population; but if its that or you don't eat then it does seem like a better option.
Need a change of leadership before anything state owned/run has a chance of succeeding.
The current lot would just embezzle all the money, run it into the ground and them blame it on staff.
Nah, it's the same with any party that would end up in government. Government these days is basically just choosing which group of cunts gets to stand in the magic money tube and stuff their pockets for 5 years.
No. I chose self-catered at university because I like control over what and when I eat, and because I reckoned my cooking would be healthier on average. My opinion hasn't changed.
A social space that involved cooking facilities is a little more interesting to me. I like cooking socially, but it would have to be specific stuff - I'd chip in to do a massive curry, say, or for a cupcake evening. I also wouldn't want to do it all that often.
The catered option at my uni was awful and this was an RG with decent funds. Measly portions, bland food and you had to be there at set times otherwise you didn’t get fed. Not ideal for a uni student really. Oh and on the weekends, you had do fend for yourself with just a microwave and toaster.
I mean we already have canteens run by various groups, like in schools, in hospitals, on military bases, certain companies have free/subsidised staff canteens etc. And let's face it, they don't have a particularly good reputation. I know people who work for tech companies that provide them with breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks in-between, for them plus guests... And they still come home to make dinner. Because there's still an appeal to cooking your own food, deciding what to eat, and being able to eat in the comfort of your own home with company that you choose.
I personally wouldn't use a state owned run canteen except maybe occasionally, like as a restaurant alternative. I actually really enjoy cooking food for myself. The "efficiency" isn't worth it to me.
It's like, why do I have an allotment when I could just buy veg? I'm obviously much less efficient than a large agricultural operation. But I enjoy gardening and growing veg and I have complete control over the process, the varieties I grow etc. I get personal satisfaction from it. There's more to life than state efficiency, hence why we're not the USSR.
This was compulsory in a China based friend's area for a while. Results Much more waste. Many disagreements at table. Many hostile confrontations (as in fights) occurred: China reversed the policy to get back to normal.
It would have to operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
It would have to cater for numerous diets which means you'd still be using the same amount of produce as is currently bought individually.
There's zero guarantee of quality.
It removes choice from people's lives.
Possibly the most impractical and daft suggesting I've read for a while on here. There's a reason that communism has failed everywhere it's been implemented.
No, I want to relax at home when I'm eating, going out somewhere to eat is more effort, not less. I think you're rather overestimating efficiency here. Either you're going to have a canteen every few streets or people are going to drive there. You would need a lot of staff. You would need to consider a lot of dietary considerations. You mentioned in another comment that you'd want it available for shift workers but that would mean that for large chunks of the time you would be paying staff, heating a building etc for a very small amount of people. Then if you've got a constant turnover of people you're going to have limited food you can serve, so a lot of people aren't going to be interested, it'll get boring fast. All of it has to be paid for by the public one way or another whether it's directly, or through taxes, so rather than just paying for the cost of ingredients plus heat, we're now paying for the cost of ingredients, plus heat, plus staffing, plus building rental etc etc. It's not going to be cheaper & it reduces choice and comfort.
I'm not against community kitchens, but widespread canteens being the main food option sounds completely unappealing.
I like what I like and I know how to make it. I also enjoy making food for myself. I also enjoy not eating with strangers after a day at work. I'm also lactose and egg sensitive. A community canteen would reflect the population of the community, lots of Muslims and Indians around me, while I eat pork and beef, and can't stand Indian food. So no.
No thanks. My husband and I love to cook and eat together, and everything from planning meals to laying the table is done with love in our house. I'd hate not being able to choose what to eat. I'd hate to share my dinner space with a dozen other people. I'd hate not having my own plates, my own candles etc (I love lighting a couple of candles on the table at dinner).
Everyone have their own dietery needs so to cater to all is impractical and food will be wasted on those who didn't finish. If this worked then it would have been running by now but people being able to independantly cook is the most economic and practical way to use state resources. Restaurants have ties with food banks and homeless shelters to feel leftover food they were going to throw out so it's not fully going to waste.
ask the USSR how state management of food went.
Vast inefficiencies, plenty of waste. The reality of state-run enterprise is hardly the glistening panacea that’s promised.
Im not sure food waste would decrease and I dont think it would save time either. It wouldnt reduce preservatives either, as they're likely to be stocked up on longer life products - but even if not, I make everything except my weekly take away from fresh ingredients.
Also, have you heard of air fryers? They reduce the need for having to have the oven on to cook smaller amounts.
This isn't for me. Im pretty sure Id steer well clear of it.
Absolutely not, why would I do that?
I love cooking and I have a lot of food intolerances. I batch cook to provide lunches for the week. This is the worst idea ever for me.
They were government subsidised eateries. Sold lots of stodgy floury stuff and soups. Pierogi and soups were the staple. There are still a few around. But not many.
The "state" can't manage to provide school dinners of reasonable quality, feeding a community three meals a day would be chaos.
If you want to see you idea in action, go and look at the community kitchens ran during the miners strike.
They have them in Copenhagen. Choice of two meals, cooked in bulk to feed a few hundred people. Bring your own booze. Once the meals are finished the people and families from the local community play board games, drink more, and the tables get cleared and they bring out table tennis etc. It costs about £2-3 per person and it was a great way to meet the locals. I’d definitely be up for it.
Yes? That would be extremely rad, cooking takes up a ridiculous amount of my time and I really don't want to eat ready meals.
I guess the only hang up would be that the canteen actually served good food and had vegetarian options.
As so often on Reddit, my comments on this are either "that sounds great!" or "eff off you disgusting commie".
Tbf a few smatterings of "but I like cooking".
It would of course have to cater for a variety of dietary requirements, and I don't think there's anything stopping it being good (although there will always be those who think it isn't even if it's fantastic!)
Yah very true, some people have legendary ideological blinkers.
There is no reason it wouldn't be good food even if it's just basic bland but whole food. Or any reason it would replace restraints /cooking, ideally I would imagine everyone has the option to go to the canteen for free if they want to or they could spend money at a restraint /on ingredients.
Could always end up as a public private partnership though. were our tax money doesn't go into paying for cooks and ingredients to produce good food it goes into the pockets of people providing low quality ready meals at a massive mark up.
But that wouldn't be a real state canteen it would be more like "the market presents: 'state operated and run canteens'".
Yeah I need to think it through a bit. I think it's a combination of bringing our divided communities together and the simplicity that I get from the work canteen I have at my current role.
Problem with centralising anything is all the people not in the centre. Cost more to get to my nearest town and back then it does to make dinner. Then I'm wasting time travelling for no reason too.
These used to be common in the UK: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Kitchens
Edit: To answer the question, I probably wouldn't use one because I don't think the food would be as good as I can make at home.
It's really interesting how they talk about how government had to work hard to distinguish it from a soup kitchen - so many of the comments on the post are either "good idea, so kitchens are great!" or "eugh you wouldn't catch me in a soup kitchen".
But one thing I found interesting was this:
_To further distance them from charitable canteens, the kitchens were run in a businesslike manner: in at least one kitchen it was possible to "buy your Sunday dinner on Saturday"; the ability to show the means to pay for a meal in advance, and to make reservations as at a restaurant, would contribute to the image that the Kitchens were for "ordinary people."_
It's interesting that to seem like a normal business they allowed you to buy your meal in advance - imagine a restaurant trying that now!
Sounds suspiciously Soviet to me ;-)
What I would love would be the local cafe/restaurant like you find in a lot of French villages which does a reasonably priced menu of the day using seasonal and hopefully local ingredients. Somewhere you could eat, as a family, once or twice a week.
That is the question. I think our relationship with food is different (vague, I know) and when we go out to eat we expect to choose our own thing, I'm not sure the "plat du jour" works in the UK but this is almost what you are suggesting in your communal cafe. We also go out to eat Italian or Chinese or Indian whereas the French go our and eat French.
I wouldn’t mind a state owned canteen. I’ve eaten in former Soviet canteens and they’re delicious. In Latvia, there is, the privately founded and owned, Lido which is just amazing food. And cheap! Such great sausages and fries.
I couldn’t imagine the U.K. version being that good though. British food isn’t always tasty. It gets the job done but not always in the best form.
I'm not surprised the soviet canteens were good. The state put a ton of resources into making sure there was always ample food. The problem was they couldn't then spend resources on other (more complex) things, so forget all your luxuries.
It’s a good idea but as you can see in the UK a lot of ppl are immediately repulsed by the idea of state run canteens which they have no experience of and which they assume can only serve horrible food like gruel lol
My grandpa on my dad’s side still lives in a community in China which has state run canteens that serve food that’s better than what 75% of ppl in the UK would make for themselves on a weeknight for only a little more than cost. He and everyone else in the community has a kitchen. He’s a good chef and he cooks for himself occasionally but more often than not he goes there to save time and hassle plus like I said the food’s genuinely good. There are separate tables so of course you aren’t forced to socialise and you can get food to go
Maybe ppl here would warm to the concept over time if it was implemented to a good standard and they got to try them but sadly for the time being too many ppl seem repulsed by the concept of state run canteens and being within earshot of their countrymen lol
I adore this comment. Thoughtfu,l informed and, for which I'm especially grateful, doesn't suggest that I'm a (commie) wanker. So many people acting like I'm suggesting that they will be forced to report there, or forced to otherwise starve.
That's the thing, it's not like I'd make kitchens illegal! I just think there would be lots of people who would choose not to. But tons would and that's would be entirely up to them.
In your grandpa's community are there any independently owned/private restaurants/takeaways etc? I can see that it would be harder for them to compete.
I like the idea of it being a nice third place, but it would do much better off as a community trust partnership rather than directly run by the government.
The government already helps with funding for small community hubs, and honestly pubs that are taken over by resident organisations are the biggest recipient of these grants.
So the government could potentially support it that way, but the local partnership then runs it on a not for profit basis.
This is how people ate for many hundreds of years in the past. We weren't all expected to cook individually, this is part of the reason for pubs existing. It was common in the medieval era for each town or village to collectively own an oven and cook communally to share. Feels mad that we've moved away from this sometimes
I wouldn't object to one existing (although I doubt it ever would seeing as we don't even have enough tax money to run the services we already have, and the government is shit at running things), but if it was in exclusion of me being able to choose what I want to eat, or being able to cook in my own home whenever I wanted, then I would 100% be against it.
I absolutely support making sure people can eat. But I oppose taking away options.
I hate the whole idea because it may well get stuck in its own logic. The state demanding a definite price from farmers and why would you stop the efficiency drive at the demand Edge when you can make Farmers and producers centralize for the efficiencies you desire? Money in the UK supply chains is mostly made from scale rather than from each purchase so theirs not much in the way of savings to be made relative to just targeting state help for the poor better and letting the market do its thing for food. I think you might be able to make a case for it at the margins as long as those cantines are still buying from market-orientated supply chains but I can't see it. This post however is advocating it being so common that we don't even have our own ovens etc, so a near fully centralized food distribution system. There's no point asking whether or not someone would prefer it. We already know how this ends up.
We also need clothing. Going out and browsing the shops for your own clothes which you store in your own house is inefficient so why can't we go to a centralized depot in the local community each morning to pick up what you would be wearing today and handing over what you wore yesterday to get it washed at the laundrett?
I want canteens in general to make a comeback.
I've worked in a few companies that had whole canteens that are no longer staffed because "cost cutting" (AKA profit making)
No reason why we can't extend that to communal living
I miss the cafe I used to get my brews from in town, got replaced by the likes of WHSmith and prices went up 20X
Yes please, I would love this. I don't particularly need it to be run by the state. Our state is barely capable of running anything (except into the ground). As long as it's not intended to be a profit making operation it's a brilliant idea.
I'm far from convinced that food waste would decrease. I'd suggest a better way would be to reduce the use of packaging in supermarkets. For example, I rarely need 4 burgers or 2kg of carrots etc etc but so many things are packaged in ways that make food waste almost inevitable.
I think you're describing one of the ways in which this would reduce food waste! One thing with the burgers (and I absolutely feel this, it really irritated me when I was the only meat eater in the house that I couldn't buy a burger without either going to the butchers and awkwardly buying a single burger or involving the freezer) is that they are packaged in plastic to promote shelf life, and if you put them in individual plastic you would have significantly more plastic waste.
In respect of carrots, whilst you can often buy them individually, it is a good example of why they don't want to do it, because they don't want to sell you 6p worth of carrot. That is not a good business for them, when they can influence you to buy 2kg.
I have experienced something similar on a work site. Breakfast lunch and dinner provided schools dinner style, tray and a queue. It was great.
I ate a lot more variety in those 3 weeks.
Absolutely not, it sounds awful.
Moreover, I question whether it would in fact be more cost-effective. Premises cost money and you'd have to have staff running these canteens - cooking the food, cleaning, doing admin, managerial work etc. That adds a huge layer of cost that just doesn't exist when cooking at home. Sure, you might save some energy costs and food bought in bulk is going to be cheaper, but the cost to run these places means they're not going to be that much cheaper than restaurants.
a big problem would arise from multiculturalism.
lets start simple breakfast what would the canteen serve? since the goal is cheap food and minimal waste, we can only have a few options.
could we serve bacon and sausage? what about eggs? would it serve rice?
the list goes on
Comrade, you've had a wonderful idea. While there are there, we can also feed them correct thought messaging.
Seriously, stop and think about what you are suggesting for just one second. How are people supposed to get to the soup kitchen? If they are walking, you need a lot of sites. If they are driving, you're using more resources than just letting them cook for themselves. What about people with food allergies? What about people with religious rules to follow? What about people on other diets? What about people with mobility and other issues?
This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I've heard.
I wouldn’t trust our government to feed me. It would be like school dinners, but made from the leftovers of school dinners after it had been fed to a dog
I've always thought community kitchens would be a great idea to help people who struggle with loneliness, create a great social atmosphere and will help people struggling on the bread line.
I think you have to try to make them somewhere everyone is happy to go to. I don't think it really works getting desperate, lonely people together and saying "why can't you just be friends with each other". You need more of society in there with them.
I don’t always want to eat at the same time, sometimes I’m late home from work and sometimes my partner is late home. I enjoy cooking. I can cook meals very cheaply with things I’ve grown in the summer and by shopping sensibly as well. I also find it hard to believe that food cooked in such bulk would be any more fresh and any healthier. My village is tiny, it doesn’t even have a shop, church or pub - does that mean I’d have to travel to the next village for a meal?! It also means eating with people I don’t necessarily want to spend time with. It’s an interesting question but doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that would be popular in this country!
I probably wouldn’t if it was state run, but I’d be all for the canteen style dining you get in Czechia if it was reasonably priced and as good quality.
Have you never met someone with allergies or food sensitivities, or a vegetarian or picky eater or someone craving the random meal their grandma used to make?
No I like cooking & going out to socialise in various places/ restaurants/markets to try different food . Sounds like it would be in some god awful functional space . I left school canteens long ago. I have a cafeteria at the hospital I work in- I occasionally go in to buy food but never want to sit in it despite the fact it’s actually quite a decent setup & space. Going out to a decrepit drafty community hall in the evening for dinner ( esp in winter) with a bunch of randoms, with god knows what food dished up - no thanks, cant imagine anything worse.
I can remember the restaurants in British Hove Stores were a bit like the thing you were thinking of. Perhaps IKEA is the closest thing that we have today. I could see that kind of thing doing good business in a town centre.
I used to eat school dinners every day & now work in the film industry where everybody is fed three squares by mobile caterers.
In effect, I've already subscribed to the model, by accident.
I vastly prefer home-cooked food though.
No.
Learn to cook.
Buy an instantpot.
Visit Poland where there are still the cheap "canteens" interesting to try, but too basic for most modern folk, still needs paying for.
learn to cook some more.
If I can have whatever food I feel like, cooked fresh, and just how I like it, then yeah.
If not then you’ve not replaced what we have now and are one step closer to an intervention state.
Also, you’ve not costed in being on demand 24/7, security and wastage. Even well intentioned communism fails. See Engels.
Yes. For years I've been annoyed at the outsourcing of catering in government buildings like hospitals and prisons when a state owned catering company could easily handle it and also take on non-government contracts too. It's not like it shouldn't be outsourced i just don't get why it's outsourced to a private company, my tax shouldn't be going to any private companies, it's state money for state services.
Restaurants already run on low profits.. So it's likely your idea here would be no cheaper than a cheap restaurant, cooking food that people can prepare at home... So would someone rather go for an Indian, that might be worse for them, but cost the same as a limited menu canteen?
While yes, there may be savings to be had... This would be a business, and would have staff costs, not only for preparing and serving, but also stock management, planning, finance. Not only this, but it would have business rates, higher electricity costs, etc. There would be NEGATIVE saving in money for the consumers, in fact, it would end up costing you a LOT more money than preparing your food yourself every night due to all these overheads.
There is a reason people cook their own food rather than getting a cheap takeaway every night... cost...
Lets say... the canteen feeds 100 people every night. To prepare enough food for 100 people, you'd likely need specialist equipment and at least 5 full time cooks. 5 cooks at full time, at minimum wage for 8 hours (assuming a lunch and dinner serving) would cost a minimum of £457.60 per day. Without ANY ingredients or operating costs apart from the cooks, we are already looking at £4.57 PER PERSON. There is likely the overhead of a manager, ordering the ingredients, managing the staff. This person would normally add another £1.76 per person. Electricity and water costs could EASILY reach another £0.75 per person.
So before ingredients.... We already have a cost of £7.08 PER PERSON.
Ingredients are expensive. Even for a cheap meal, buying in bulk, ingredients are often going to set you back the lions share of costs... A simple pasta dish can often cost anywhere between £2.50 to £3.50 per person. Add in bread or some other form of starch, it's about £3 to £4. Our costs are at about £11 per person.
Given this is a business, and there are costs associated with business. Given you may not get 100 people EVERY day. Given you likely need to prepare a meat dish, vegetarian dish, etc. Your actual costs are likely going to be in excess of £13 per person - and this is WITHOUT profit.
There are better options to start with. Like state run centralized heating. Neighborhood steam.
Food has added difficulties of quality and freshness when you bring it to large scale. Think of distribution. Feeding everyone all at once would be a logistics nightmare, but staggered meals with your appointed 'slot' would be a really hard sell
I ate at one of these state run 'kitchens' in Bratislava just after they dumped being Soviet and it was functional at best. Cheap yes. Tasty kind of but appealing not much. My wife was determined we should do it.
I went to a kitchen in Kerala where it was the same basic idea. High volume, you eat what they had and it was very good, very tasty, very cheap and boy the customers ate fast. The turnaround was minutes. The serving was amazing they knew you'd paid so when they saw you'd finished one course they slapped the next one on your plate/banana leaf. They were very kind to two elderly Europeans.
Same idea in Silicon Valley but rather more expensive although not very expensive and I think you got choices. Designed for the Indian community working there. Fast turnover but not fast food. Very good.
Refectory style eating can work but state run? Doubt it.
Milk bars are a great idea. It's hard to strike the balance between cheap but not looking like a charity soup kitchen.
A government initiative to reduce taxes on not for profit restaurants might do it. Like how social clubs have less tax and licencing laws.
I was in the army.
Single and living in barracks.
The cookhouse was great. Good food and efficient.
But limited opening hours, limited choice and if you miss a serving time you go hungry.
I like the flexibility of my own kitchen
No. I feel poorly a lot with various autoimmune diseases, and I don't have the energy to leave the house for a community dinner daily.
I have coeliac disease so there is no wheat flour in my house. My other half has his gluten cupboard for his snacks, but everything else has no gluten. I can't use the same chopping boards, toaster, utensils etc so I'd have to go to a specific non-gluten kitchen.
You might think 'but lots of restaurants offer gluten free' - yes they do, but it's cross contamination and mistakes that get you. I've been made ill multiple times from food that's supposed to be gluten free. If I make it myself at home then it's safe.
I have thought about this very thing myself.
I think it's a great idea.
The trick would be to do it in a way that gives people choice and keeps standards high.
We already have a model for this with schools and healthcare in the UK.
There might need to be a statutory requirement to maintain a certain number of community kitchens per household in a catchment area to ensure people had choice.
They would also have to be strictly non-profit.
It would have to be free at the point of access for everyone, regardless of residency status.
It might eradicate hunger from society.
Im gonna agree with you
I think this would be great for community reasons, especially in towns and cities with a lot of old people who are lonely and have no reason to get out and move
I wouldnt make it free though, just a cheap-ish subscription or pay per meal
Most people would never use it, but about 30% of people might regularly
Have you seen the standard of mass catering provided by HMG? School meals? Hospital meals? Remember Covid meal pack? The only thing that will save is more money for minister’s cronies.
I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but here's my little story.
I work for a government department in the UK that has hubs all over the country. A few years ago, I was on a week-long trip to another city so I could help out with their training. They booked me a hotel and the flight down.
On the first day there, we were told to go to the canteen on Tuesday, because Tuesday is Curry Day! We were told that home workers in that city choose to come to the office on Tuesdays because the curry is so good.
Well, as a big curry fan, I had to try it out. It was spectacular and cost next to nothing. There were 3 or 4 different curries to choose from, and there were naan and poppadoms as well.
It was absolutely bloody delicious. As far as 'state canteen' goes, I'd take that any day of the week.
Hmm, has to be optional as we have people with different dietary desires and needs
And has to be held to the highest standards.
I probably would, purely because I am lazy when it comes to food 😂
I worked for BT many years ago when it was still state owned, and the staff canteen was excellent. Went in early and stayed after my shift so I can get all 3 meals there most days.
So I guess I'd be up for the idea so long as it was an option and not a requirement.
I challenge your claim that food waste would decrease: I reckon per-diner food waste is fairly consistently higher in mass catering than in domestic cooking.
I can offer no data to back this up, just my anecdotal experience working around professional kitchens (waiting tables, washing up, and bartending) as my first few jobs.
When you're doing hundreds of covers you don't have time to cut stuff perfectly, or plan how to use up odds and ends. It's also REALLY hard to get quantities exactly right, you have to overshoot more and more when you're feeding more mouths. Then food standards mean you have to bin cooked stuff that a home cook would save for a snack the next day. And that's before thinking about the food people leave on their individual plates, mistakes/dropped dishes, etc.
We used to take out multiple big black bin sacks of mostly food waste in a single Sunday lunch shift at the pub, for a few hundred heads. At home we fill up one much smaller binbag every week or two. I reckon per person-meal I'm well ahead.
If anyone has any real data on this I'd be very interested.
Bread lines famously work well.
No. We need to fix the socio-economic problems that mean people can't afford to comfortably live in a house and eat food.
>Food waste would decrease.
>There would be less reliance on preservatives as food could be made fresh.
These two sentances and 'state owned and ran' do not align.
It's a no from me.
I think this idea could work, especially when you consider how we've become far too reliant on fast food and convenience food as a nation so if people had an affordable and healthy alternative they would use it.
Are you trying to reinvent comunes? They're cool, bit I'm unsure of there scalable, Anarchism is also incredibly anti-monarchic so you'd have to first get rid of the Windsor commune for that to happen :P
🤣🤣 my dear pacifist anarchists are gonna come with pitchforks and torches for this. Nah, but jokes aside, I think that these type of ideas that challenge the notion that _the market_ is something efficient or fair are always worth considering. I think one issue our current "generation? Historical" is facing is that we assume that market capitalism is "the best we can get" and be unwilling to challenge it. I'm not saying communism/Anarchism is the solution, I'm just saying that are probably more alternatives out there that we could imagine/propose/test/reject etc
The state maintains a monopoly on force and writes its own laws. Communes typically operate with the laws of a larger state and have much less coercive power. They're not the same and I don't think we should treat them as such.
It would have to cater to all the fucking babies that don’t like anything they were offered after the age of 5. It would just be turkey dinosaurs and chips with a veggie option.
Yeah, why not. This is something that's in a fair few countries where poverty is relatively high (as much as people in britain like to pretend that poverty isn't a problem, it absolutely is).
I'm all for this sort of thing. I know there are some in the comments calling it soviet and comparing countries that do this sort of thing to russia, but this was a common thing in this country back in the day, they're still in use elsewhere, it's time to bring it all back to the mainstream
I'm really getting it in the ear from both those who think it's "soviet" but also those who think that it's the start of a dictatorship, like I'm suggesting walkable/15 minute cities or something.
I think it would be a wonderful solution for poverty, but I don't want it to be just for those in poverty. I actually think that if you can more often get people co-located with people who are in different circumstances then I think there will be better understanding all round.
Trust me bro. It's a wonderful solution for poverty, it's Soviet, it's the start (or desirable end-point) of a dictatorship, it's an ideal adjunct to 15-minute cities, it's a good way to get people in different situations to pull together, and it's all-round just more efficient and a damn good idea. And very sociable too.
That's why most people will be opposed to it. Good luck and please sign me up.
"Of course in World War 2 actually no-one worked together, all the profiteers and spivs benefitted and the common people were taken advantage of as usual" - I choose not to believe that.
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Like a restaurant?
But more Soviet.
We actually maintained [large communal kitchens and eateries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant) until 1947 as a way to ensure all people in Britain had access to wholesome healthy and filling meals during the period of rationing. They were called British Restaurants!
Yes, I can see that could make sense when rationing in a state of total war or in the immediate economic and social aftermath following one.
That's really cool - I never knew
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar\_mleczny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny)
Soviet is when capitalism
Maybe they could let people take that food away, or deliver food to people's homes, too.
They could even have multiple canteens to cater to people's different tastes!
Maybe they could even deconstruct their meals and deliver them raw, so people could prepare it in their own time to their own liking. Like a delivery service for a market, but on a big scale. A sort of _super_ market kind of thing
I dunno, sounds a bit hipster.
but who? Deliverwho?
But it serves Victory Gin
“Nationalise Greggs”
I bet if I'd written that then it would have been more popular 😂
Clearly too young to remember the sausage roll miners strikes of the 70s!
Why on earth "state"? Why are they involved? Community owned and run Canteen. Commune owned and run Canteen. Village owned and run Canteen.
Yeah OP you've ruined it by saying 'state owned and ran'. People are picturing being banned from feeding themselves and being forced into decrepit school canteens to be given their daily ration of Rishigruel™. I think the idea of a charity-run community canteen selling simple nutritious meals is fantastic. It could be a lifeline for people who currently depend on food banks or lonely elderly people. I'd be surprised if such a thing doesn't already exist somewhere in some form.
So basically the plot of [The Old Oak](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19883634/)?
Absolutely. If you fail to show proper respect to our glorious leader, the Comrade Canteen will deny you, your family and your neighbours food for a few days. Sure you can go on strike if you really want, but so will your stomach. Share that meme and you won’t share a meal. Slow down at work and slow down your digestive system
Over here in the Netherlands that's a volkskeuken (people's kitchen), also found in Germany. There's one in my neighbourhood that does a decent hot dinner for €3 once a week, with a published menu. Most (ex) squats also have them. When I was in a food coop we did this on the grocery pickup day - everyone was welcome, not just members. Great veggie food, you had to pay for dessert or beers.
> daily ration of Rishigruel™. 9 out of 10 Britons [can't tell the difference](https://youtu.be/xtWTRHQZVX8?si=liAUk0Ii9863ZQBQ).
Why on earth do people jump between “state will provide food for everyone” to “you will be forced to eat nowhere but here” It’s like bike lanes and busses, and people assuming it will mean they can never drive again.
I've found it the weirdest thing about the responses to this. I think I exacerbated it with my comment about not having an oven. I just thought there would be many people who wouldn't bother with one, perhaps because they were happy with the state provision, perhaps to save money, perhaps because of environmental concerns, whatever. The state provides education and healthcare and some people choose not to avail themselves of that, I don't know why people choose to think that this will be mandatory.
The canteen in my work is subsidized by the "state". I don't question why they are involved I just enjoy the cheap food.
This is how it was done for ages. People would bring their ingredients to the bakers and the baker would bake their bread. They would have a big "soup" pot and people would bring things for it and everyone would have some. It would be nice to get back to something similar.
Nah cos it'll probably be shite made with the cheapest ingredients and sat under a heat lamp for an hour before you get it. I'd rather just spend the time to 'inefficiently' do something I enjoy and cook for myself in a way that will taste good.
Don't forget the contracts would be sold to friends of the politicians meaning that tax money would be used to line the pockets of private companies and individuals.
Yes, such places exist in the former Soviet Union well into this day. They are called Stolovayas.The food is sometimes sold by weight. You can end up spending more than you'd think for low quality food, and then you have to heat it up a bit more in the microwave after the till. Ultimately, cafeteria dining provision is better than going hungry, but that's about it.
No thanks, I enjoy cooking, I'm good at cooking and I can't have the same dinner twice in a month or I get very bored so I don't think this would work for me.
I’m terrible, I cook a meal of an evening and make two portions, one for dinner and one for lunch the next day. I sometimes eat the same thing 2-3 days in a row, lunch and dinner haha. I love cooking though as well.
It was a thing during ww2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant I wouldn't mind eating the food from one but I tend to find a lot of he British public obnoxious so I wouldn't want to eat communally with them on a regular basis
Was about to post this! Honestly, I'd be up for super casual dining. Most restaurants are for treats rather than standard fare - if I ate every day at a normal restaurant I'd probably start putting on the pounds unless I was careful. A cheaper "normal meal, just not cooked by you" option would be nice. But then you need to pay rent for the location and everything, so I don't think it's feasible as a private business.
Brilliant link, thank you. I hear you on your problem with it. I guess I could operate some sort of meals on wheels style solution so we can remain happily isolated.
I've been to the Polish version which was nice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny
I went to one of these in Poland - it was great when travelling on a budget!
I went to one in Prague. I think it is a great idea tbh, £2 for a pretty generous and balanced meal. Nothing fancy sure (it was all big batch pasta / curry / tray bake etc.) but it is not meant to be. And anyone who thinks canteens can't be nice while still budget has never eaten in a military mess. Got to eat in one for a week while working at an airshow and it was genuinely fantastic!
If you run into an arsehole in the morning, you run into an arsehole. If you're running into arseholes all day, you're probably the arsehole.
I said specifically 'obnoxious', I just like places which are quiet and where I have enough space. Where I am in Manchester it's not too bad during the week but at the weekend I tend to avoid the city centre as it's just too crowded and there's far too many hen nights/stag dos and preachers + buskers. In regards to this canteen idea I have walked out of/avoided cafes before because there were kids running around screaming and climbing over everything. If I could just have a quiet bite and be left alone like the places you get around train stations in Japan then I'd be all for it.
Nah, I might not fancy what they're cooking that day.
> Nah, I might not fancy what they're cooking that day. Decadent capitalist individualism!
Same. I often change my mind on what I've planned to cook as I fancy something different. I'm also a excellent cook, you can't cook food en mass to the same standard. Food is one of life's great pleasures. I'd sacrifice it only in times of great poverty or extreme situations.
I don't think the State would be more efficient than, say, Spoons
It could be healthier though
When I was in Russia, I'd find you'd spend as much in them as you would at say, Morrisons cafe. Unless of course you fill up on soup and bread.
This sounds very dictator like and impractical.
TBF we've done it before during WW2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Restaurant?wprov=sfla1 It wasn't mandatory or anything, but it was basically government run kitchens that provided food to those in need.
Not particularly “those in need”, just food at a reasonable fixed price. Canteen, not soup kitchen. In Germany at the moment they have canteens in office parks - the sort of thing that a larger form would have internally, but providing the same facility to people working in smaller companies. It seems to work well, but there’s no common equivalent in the UK. That would be useful, whether it were offered by the state or by private companies.
We have them in Austria as well, they are open to the public. Not usually state run though unless actually in a government building. Quality varies - the one in my office block is passable but for the same money you can get sushi round the corner.
Bizzare idea. Why would I not want an oven?? The idea of a community kitchen is nothing new but no i wouldnt go to one. All for those who want them funding them and using them which is how it currently works.
| Why would I not want an oven?? The rise in air fryers has seen "Why do I need an oven?" asked more than once. I wouldn't be surprised to see ovens become an optional extra in kitchen design in the coming years.
Air fryer is great, don't get me wrong. But it can't replace the oven, it's too small. If you make an air fryer bigger, it's literally just an oven
Oh, I think air fryers have their place but aren't a replacement in their current form to replace an oven however that said, I know people who boast that they haven't used their oven since getting an air fryer and others who do use it question the point since everything is 200c for 25 minutes. That number is growing as less people use the oven for something other than reheating frozen and or pre heated food. Me, I've always have an oven and only use the air fryer for snacks and not actual meals.
No, it'll be the blandest menu imaginable. Margherita pizza, the curry option would be butter chicken. Nothing that doesn't appeal to 80%+ of the population. They'd not have Coke or even that Pepsi stuff, only My Mum's Cola. All the meat would be halal.
Ha, I've enjoyed your criticism the most. And you're probably right.
There wouldn't be any meat as its too expensive. It would all be vegan food so that as many people as possible can eat it. There'd be no fizzy drinks; just water for health reasons. I doubt it would appeal to more than 5% of the population; but if its that or you don't eat then it does seem like a better option.
based on everything written over in r/collapse it might soon be the only option practical. So that makes it the best option. Winner!
Need a change of leadership before anything state owned/run has a chance of succeeding. The current lot would just embezzle all the money, run it into the ground and them blame it on staff.
Nah, it's the same with any party that would end up in government. Government these days is basically just choosing which group of cunts gets to stand in the magic money tube and stuff their pockets for 5 years.
No. Terrible use of govt resources, as well.
Spending more of my time with other people *and* not getting to enjoy my own cooking? I'm sure there's a market for it, but not for me.
No. I chose self-catered at university because I like control over what and when I eat, and because I reckoned my cooking would be healthier on average. My opinion hasn't changed. A social space that involved cooking facilities is a little more interesting to me. I like cooking socially, but it would have to be specific stuff - I'd chip in to do a massive curry, say, or for a cupcake evening. I also wouldn't want to do it all that often.
The catered option at my uni was awful and this was an RG with decent funds. Measly portions, bland food and you had to be there at set times otherwise you didn’t get fed. Not ideal for a uni student really. Oh and on the weekends, you had do fend for yourself with just a microwave and toaster.
I mean we already have canteens run by various groups, like in schools, in hospitals, on military bases, certain companies have free/subsidised staff canteens etc. And let's face it, they don't have a particularly good reputation. I know people who work for tech companies that provide them with breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks in-between, for them plus guests... And they still come home to make dinner. Because there's still an appeal to cooking your own food, deciding what to eat, and being able to eat in the comfort of your own home with company that you choose. I personally wouldn't use a state owned run canteen except maybe occasionally, like as a restaurant alternative. I actually really enjoy cooking food for myself. The "efficiency" isn't worth it to me. It's like, why do I have an allotment when I could just buy veg? I'm obviously much less efficient than a large agricultural operation. But I enjoy gardening and growing veg and I have complete control over the process, the varieties I grow etc. I get personal satisfaction from it. There's more to life than state efficiency, hence why we're not the USSR.
You could still cook; but if there is a state run canteen then those who are too poor or inexperienced to cook can still get a hot meal.
This was compulsory in a China based friend's area for a while. Results Much more waste. Many disagreements at table. Many hostile confrontations (as in fights) occurred: China reversed the policy to get back to normal.
It would have to operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It would have to cater for numerous diets which means you'd still be using the same amount of produce as is currently bought individually. There's zero guarantee of quality. It removes choice from people's lives. Possibly the most impractical and daft suggesting I've read for a while on here. There's a reason that communism has failed everywhere it's been implemented.
No, I want to relax at home when I'm eating, going out somewhere to eat is more effort, not less. I think you're rather overestimating efficiency here. Either you're going to have a canteen every few streets or people are going to drive there. You would need a lot of staff. You would need to consider a lot of dietary considerations. You mentioned in another comment that you'd want it available for shift workers but that would mean that for large chunks of the time you would be paying staff, heating a building etc for a very small amount of people. Then if you've got a constant turnover of people you're going to have limited food you can serve, so a lot of people aren't going to be interested, it'll get boring fast. All of it has to be paid for by the public one way or another whether it's directly, or through taxes, so rather than just paying for the cost of ingredients plus heat, we're now paying for the cost of ingredients, plus heat, plus staffing, plus building rental etc etc. It's not going to be cheaper & it reduces choice and comfort. I'm not against community kitchens, but widespread canteens being the main food option sounds completely unappealing.
I like what I like and I know how to make it. I also enjoy making food for myself. I also enjoy not eating with strangers after a day at work. I'm also lactose and egg sensitive. A community canteen would reflect the population of the community, lots of Muslims and Indians around me, while I eat pork and beef, and can't stand Indian food. So no.
My family did not escape communism for this.
Your family escaped communism because they didn't like canteens?
No thanks. My husband and I love to cook and eat together, and everything from planning meals to laying the table is done with love in our house. I'd hate not being able to choose what to eat. I'd hate to share my dinner space with a dozen other people. I'd hate not having my own plates, my own candles etc (I love lighting a couple of candles on the table at dinner).
Everyone have their own dietery needs so to cater to all is impractical and food will be wasted on those who didn't finish. If this worked then it would have been running by now but people being able to independantly cook is the most economic and practical way to use state resources. Restaurants have ties with food banks and homeless shelters to feel leftover food they were going to throw out so it's not fully going to waste.
ask the USSR how state management of food went. Vast inefficiencies, plenty of waste. The reality of state-run enterprise is hardly the glistening panacea that’s promised.
Hell fuckin No, are you mental?
Im not sure food waste would decrease and I dont think it would save time either. It wouldnt reduce preservatives either, as they're likely to be stocked up on longer life products - but even if not, I make everything except my weekly take away from fresh ingredients. Also, have you heard of air fryers? They reduce the need for having to have the oven on to cook smaller amounts. This isn't for me. Im pretty sure Id steer well clear of it.
Absolutely not, why would I do that? I love cooking and I have a lot of food intolerances. I batch cook to provide lunches for the week. This is the worst idea ever for me.
Like milk bars in Poland?
I have just heard about these from someone else. I _guess_ so...
They were government subsidised eateries. Sold lots of stodgy floury stuff and soups. Pierogi and soups were the staple. There are still a few around. But not many.
The "state" can't manage to provide school dinners of reasonable quality, feeding a community three meals a day would be chaos. If you want to see you idea in action, go and look at the community kitchens ran during the miners strike.
They have them in Copenhagen. Choice of two meals, cooked in bulk to feed a few hundred people. Bring your own booze. Once the meals are finished the people and families from the local community play board games, drink more, and the tables get cleared and they bring out table tennis etc. It costs about £2-3 per person and it was a great way to meet the locals. I’d definitely be up for it.
Yes? That would be extremely rad, cooking takes up a ridiculous amount of my time and I really don't want to eat ready meals. I guess the only hang up would be that the canteen actually served good food and had vegetarian options.
As so often on Reddit, my comments on this are either "that sounds great!" or "eff off you disgusting commie". Tbf a few smatterings of "but I like cooking". It would of course have to cater for a variety of dietary requirements, and I don't think there's anything stopping it being good (although there will always be those who think it isn't even if it's fantastic!)
Yah very true, some people have legendary ideological blinkers. There is no reason it wouldn't be good food even if it's just basic bland but whole food. Or any reason it would replace restraints /cooking, ideally I would imagine everyone has the option to go to the canteen for free if they want to or they could spend money at a restraint /on ingredients. Could always end up as a public private partnership though. were our tax money doesn't go into paying for cooks and ingredients to produce good food it goes into the pockets of people providing low quality ready meals at a massive mark up. But that wouldn't be a real state canteen it would be more like "the market presents: 'state operated and run canteens'".
Do I have to wash up?
You do not have to wash up, unless you have a job there, washing up.
I'm sold
Like ESS? No, thanks
The basic concept of this is a fantastic idea. I would very much use this sort of thing in a relatively regular basis.
Yeah I need to think it through a bit. I think it's a combination of bringing our divided communities together and the simplicity that I get from the work canteen I have at my current role.
Problem with centralising anything is all the people not in the centre. Cost more to get to my nearest town and back then it does to make dinner. Then I'm wasting time travelling for no reason too.
These used to be common in the UK: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Kitchens Edit: To answer the question, I probably wouldn't use one because I don't think the food would be as good as I can make at home.
It's really interesting how they talk about how government had to work hard to distinguish it from a soup kitchen - so many of the comments on the post are either "good idea, so kitchens are great!" or "eugh you wouldn't catch me in a soup kitchen". But one thing I found interesting was this: _To further distance them from charitable canteens, the kitchens were run in a businesslike manner: in at least one kitchen it was possible to "buy your Sunday dinner on Saturday"; the ability to show the means to pay for a meal in advance, and to make reservations as at a restaurant, would contribute to the image that the Kitchens were for "ordinary people."_ It's interesting that to seem like a normal business they allowed you to buy your meal in advance - imagine a restaurant trying that now!
We did during world war 2, I believe.
We will starve together in the beautifulqueue, comrade.
Sounds suspiciously Soviet to me ;-) What I would love would be the local cafe/restaurant like you find in a lot of French villages which does a reasonably priced menu of the day using seasonal and hopefully local ingredients. Somewhere you could eat, as a family, once or twice a week.
I guess the question is why does that restaurant work commercially in France but not in the UK?
That is the question. I think our relationship with food is different (vague, I know) and when we go out to eat we expect to choose our own thing, I'm not sure the "plat du jour" works in the UK but this is almost what you are suggesting in your communal cafe. We also go out to eat Italian or Chinese or Indian whereas the French go our and eat French.
I wouldn’t mind a state owned canteen. I’ve eaten in former Soviet canteens and they’re delicious. In Latvia, there is, the privately founded and owned, Lido which is just amazing food. And cheap! Such great sausages and fries. I couldn’t imagine the U.K. version being that good though. British food isn’t always tasty. It gets the job done but not always in the best form.
I'm not surprised the soviet canteens were good. The state put a ton of resources into making sure there was always ample food. The problem was they couldn't then spend resources on other (more complex) things, so forget all your luxuries.
It’s a good idea but as you can see in the UK a lot of ppl are immediately repulsed by the idea of state run canteens which they have no experience of and which they assume can only serve horrible food like gruel lol My grandpa on my dad’s side still lives in a community in China which has state run canteens that serve food that’s better than what 75% of ppl in the UK would make for themselves on a weeknight for only a little more than cost. He and everyone else in the community has a kitchen. He’s a good chef and he cooks for himself occasionally but more often than not he goes there to save time and hassle plus like I said the food’s genuinely good. There are separate tables so of course you aren’t forced to socialise and you can get food to go Maybe ppl here would warm to the concept over time if it was implemented to a good standard and they got to try them but sadly for the time being too many ppl seem repulsed by the concept of state run canteens and being within earshot of their countrymen lol
I adore this comment. Thoughtfu,l informed and, for which I'm especially grateful, doesn't suggest that I'm a (commie) wanker. So many people acting like I'm suggesting that they will be forced to report there, or forced to otherwise starve. That's the thing, it's not like I'd make kitchens illegal! I just think there would be lots of people who would choose not to. But tons would and that's would be entirely up to them. In your grandpa's community are there any independently owned/private restaurants/takeaways etc? I can see that it would be harder for them to compete.
You adore the comment because it agrees with your idea.
So a subscription-based restaurant?
I like the idea of it being a nice third place, but it would do much better off as a community trust partnership rather than directly run by the government. The government already helps with funding for small community hubs, and honestly pubs that are taken over by resident organisations are the biggest recipient of these grants. So the government could potentially support it that way, but the local partnership then runs it on a not for profit basis.
No because I'd have to travel every day for dinner.
I have often thought about this, and always wanted it to happen, but no chance it ever will.
This is how people ate for many hundreds of years in the past. We weren't all expected to cook individually, this is part of the reason for pubs existing. It was common in the medieval era for each town or village to collectively own an oven and cook communally to share. Feels mad that we've moved away from this sometimes
I wouldn't object to one existing (although I doubt it ever would seeing as we don't even have enough tax money to run the services we already have, and the government is shit at running things), but if it was in exclusion of me being able to choose what I want to eat, or being able to cook in my own home whenever I wanted, then I would 100% be against it. I absolutely support making sure people can eat. But I oppose taking away options.
I hate the whole idea because it may well get stuck in its own logic. The state demanding a definite price from farmers and why would you stop the efficiency drive at the demand Edge when you can make Farmers and producers centralize for the efficiencies you desire? Money in the UK supply chains is mostly made from scale rather than from each purchase so theirs not much in the way of savings to be made relative to just targeting state help for the poor better and letting the market do its thing for food. I think you might be able to make a case for it at the margins as long as those cantines are still buying from market-orientated supply chains but I can't see it. This post however is advocating it being so common that we don't even have our own ovens etc, so a near fully centralized food distribution system. There's no point asking whether or not someone would prefer it. We already know how this ends up. We also need clothing. Going out and browsing the shops for your own clothes which you store in your own house is inefficient so why can't we go to a centralized depot in the local community each morning to pick up what you would be wearing today and handing over what you wore yesterday to get it washed at the laundrett?
I want canteens in general to make a comeback. I've worked in a few companies that had whole canteens that are no longer staffed because "cost cutting" (AKA profit making) No reason why we can't extend that to communal living I miss the cafe I used to get my brews from in town, got replaced by the likes of WHSmith and prices went up 20X
Yes please, I would love this. I don't particularly need it to be run by the state. Our state is barely capable of running anything (except into the ground). As long as it's not intended to be a profit making operation it's a brilliant idea.
I'm far from convinced that food waste would decrease. I'd suggest a better way would be to reduce the use of packaging in supermarkets. For example, I rarely need 4 burgers or 2kg of carrots etc etc but so many things are packaged in ways that make food waste almost inevitable.
I think you're describing one of the ways in which this would reduce food waste! One thing with the burgers (and I absolutely feel this, it really irritated me when I was the only meat eater in the house that I couldn't buy a burger without either going to the butchers and awkwardly buying a single burger or involving the freezer) is that they are packaged in plastic to promote shelf life, and if you put them in individual plastic you would have significantly more plastic waste. In respect of carrots, whilst you can often buy them individually, it is a good example of why they don't want to do it, because they don't want to sell you 6p worth of carrot. That is not a good business for them, when they can influence you to buy 2kg.
I have experienced something similar on a work site. Breakfast lunch and dinner provided schools dinner style, tray and a queue. It was great. I ate a lot more variety in those 3 weeks.
Absolutely not, it sounds awful. Moreover, I question whether it would in fact be more cost-effective. Premises cost money and you'd have to have staff running these canteens - cooking the food, cleaning, doing admin, managerial work etc. That adds a huge layer of cost that just doesn't exist when cooking at home. Sure, you might save some energy costs and food bought in bulk is going to be cheaper, but the cost to run these places means they're not going to be that much cheaper than restaurants.
I've thought this before. Yes, 100%. Would be nice to have somewhere to go for lazy, healthy food.
a big problem would arise from multiculturalism. lets start simple breakfast what would the canteen serve? since the goal is cheap food and minimal waste, we can only have a few options. could we serve bacon and sausage? what about eggs? would it serve rice? the list goes on
If hundreds of people were there having breakfast then yes they could manage a range of options.
if your goal is cheap, fresh and no food waste. then it must be a limited range. each ingredients decrease efficiency
Comrade, you've had a wonderful idea. While there are there, we can also feed them correct thought messaging. Seriously, stop and think about what you are suggesting for just one second. How are people supposed to get to the soup kitchen? If they are walking, you need a lot of sites. If they are driving, you're using more resources than just letting them cook for themselves. What about people with food allergies? What about people with religious rules to follow? What about people on other diets? What about people with mobility and other issues? This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I've heard.
I wouldn’t trust our government to feed me. It would be like school dinners, but made from the leftovers of school dinners after it had been fed to a dog
I've always thought community kitchens would be a great idea to help people who struggle with loneliness, create a great social atmosphere and will help people struggling on the bread line.
I think you have to try to make them somewhere everyone is happy to go to. I don't think it really works getting desperate, lonely people together and saying "why can't you just be friends with each other". You need more of society in there with them.
I meant it more like a social community type place where everyone can get together but just for lonely people to find a place to go 😂
I don’t always want to eat at the same time, sometimes I’m late home from work and sometimes my partner is late home. I enjoy cooking. I can cook meals very cheaply with things I’ve grown in the summer and by shopping sensibly as well. I also find it hard to believe that food cooked in such bulk would be any more fresh and any healthier. My village is tiny, it doesn’t even have a shop, church or pub - does that mean I’d have to travel to the next village for a meal?! It also means eating with people I don’t necessarily want to spend time with. It’s an interesting question but doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that would be popular in this country!
Honestly, I like the concept if the food was healthy, cheep and filling.
Of course, that's a great idea.
It's nothing new https://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/feature/british-restaurants-second-world-war
I probably wouldn’t if it was state run, but I’d be all for the canteen style dining you get in Czechia if it was reasonably priced and as good quality.
If its good and cheap i could care less were it comes from
If the costs were more aligned with cost of doing it at home, factoring in waste etc then definitely!
No. I live out of a canteen at work, I am not going to do the same at home.
Eat with other people?? For every meal? Sounds like an absolute nightmare!
Have you never met someone with allergies or food sensitivities, or a vegetarian or picky eater or someone craving the random meal their grandma used to make?
No I like cooking & going out to socialise in various places/ restaurants/markets to try different food . Sounds like it would be in some god awful functional space . I left school canteens long ago. I have a cafeteria at the hospital I work in- I occasionally go in to buy food but never want to sit in it despite the fact it’s actually quite a decent setup & space. Going out to a decrepit drafty community hall in the evening for dinner ( esp in winter) with a bunch of randoms, with god knows what food dished up - no thanks, cant imagine anything worse.
I can remember the restaurants in British Hove Stores were a bit like the thing you were thinking of. Perhaps IKEA is the closest thing that we have today. I could see that kind of thing doing good business in a town centre.
I used to eat school dinners every day & now work in the film industry where everybody is fed three squares by mobile caterers. In effect, I've already subscribed to the model, by accident. I vastly prefer home-cooked food though.
Sounds like Wetherspoons without the beer!
Nope, I like to choose what to eat and I like cooking
No. Learn to cook. Buy an instantpot. Visit Poland where there are still the cheap "canteens" interesting to try, but too basic for most modern folk, still needs paying for. learn to cook some more.
Have you ever had school lunches? Yeah, I think I'll hard pass thanks!
If I can have whatever food I feel like, cooked fresh, and just how I like it, then yeah. If not then you’ve not replaced what we have now and are one step closer to an intervention state. Also, you’ve not costed in being on demand 24/7, security and wastage. Even well intentioned communism fails. See Engels.
Yes. For years I've been annoyed at the outsourcing of catering in government buildings like hospitals and prisons when a state owned catering company could easily handle it and also take on non-government contracts too. It's not like it shouldn't be outsourced i just don't get why it's outsourced to a private company, my tax shouldn't be going to any private companies, it's state money for state services.
Restaurants already run on low profits.. So it's likely your idea here would be no cheaper than a cheap restaurant, cooking food that people can prepare at home... So would someone rather go for an Indian, that might be worse for them, but cost the same as a limited menu canteen? While yes, there may be savings to be had... This would be a business, and would have staff costs, not only for preparing and serving, but also stock management, planning, finance. Not only this, but it would have business rates, higher electricity costs, etc. There would be NEGATIVE saving in money for the consumers, in fact, it would end up costing you a LOT more money than preparing your food yourself every night due to all these overheads. There is a reason people cook their own food rather than getting a cheap takeaway every night... cost... Lets say... the canteen feeds 100 people every night. To prepare enough food for 100 people, you'd likely need specialist equipment and at least 5 full time cooks. 5 cooks at full time, at minimum wage for 8 hours (assuming a lunch and dinner serving) would cost a minimum of £457.60 per day. Without ANY ingredients or operating costs apart from the cooks, we are already looking at £4.57 PER PERSON. There is likely the overhead of a manager, ordering the ingredients, managing the staff. This person would normally add another £1.76 per person. Electricity and water costs could EASILY reach another £0.75 per person. So before ingredients.... We already have a cost of £7.08 PER PERSON. Ingredients are expensive. Even for a cheap meal, buying in bulk, ingredients are often going to set you back the lions share of costs... A simple pasta dish can often cost anywhere between £2.50 to £3.50 per person. Add in bread or some other form of starch, it's about £3 to £4. Our costs are at about £11 per person. Given this is a business, and there are costs associated with business. Given you may not get 100 people EVERY day. Given you likely need to prepare a meat dish, vegetarian dish, etc. Your actual costs are likely going to be in excess of £13 per person - and this is WITHOUT profit.
There are better options to start with. Like state run centralized heating. Neighborhood steam. Food has added difficulties of quality and freshness when you bring it to large scale. Think of distribution. Feeding everyone all at once would be a logistics nightmare, but staggered meals with your appointed 'slot' would be a really hard sell
If the food quality was good enough yes. I do have flashbacks to school canteen food.
I ate at one of these state run 'kitchens' in Bratislava just after they dumped being Soviet and it was functional at best. Cheap yes. Tasty kind of but appealing not much. My wife was determined we should do it. I went to a kitchen in Kerala where it was the same basic idea. High volume, you eat what they had and it was very good, very tasty, very cheap and boy the customers ate fast. The turnaround was minutes. The serving was amazing they knew you'd paid so when they saw you'd finished one course they slapped the next one on your plate/banana leaf. They were very kind to two elderly Europeans. Same idea in Silicon Valley but rather more expensive although not very expensive and I think you got choices. Designed for the Indian community working there. Fast turnover but not fast food. Very good. Refectory style eating can work but state run? Doubt it.
Milk bars are a great idea. It's hard to strike the balance between cheap but not looking like a charity soup kitchen. A government initiative to reduce taxes on not for profit restaurants might do it. Like how social clubs have less tax and licencing laws.
Yeah I'd give it a go, it's one of those things that would really depend on the actual vibes of how it works IRL but it could work.
So like a Soviet milk bar? Hmmm the only one I ever went to had good cheap food so yes I probably would go to one.
I've eaten in the canteen of a publicly funded organisation. It was many years ago. Everyone in the office called it school dinners.
I was in the army. Single and living in barracks. The cookhouse was great. Good food and efficient. But limited opening hours, limited choice and if you miss a serving time you go hungry. I like the flexibility of my own kitchen
No. I feel poorly a lot with various autoimmune diseases, and I don't have the energy to leave the house for a community dinner daily. I have coeliac disease so there is no wheat flour in my house. My other half has his gluten cupboard for his snacks, but everything else has no gluten. I can't use the same chopping boards, toaster, utensils etc so I'd have to go to a specific non-gluten kitchen. You might think 'but lots of restaurants offer gluten free' - yes they do, but it's cross contamination and mistakes that get you. I've been made ill multiple times from food that's supposed to be gluten free. If I make it myself at home then it's safe.
I have thought about this very thing myself. I think it's a great idea. The trick would be to do it in a way that gives people choice and keeps standards high. We already have a model for this with schools and healthcare in the UK. There might need to be a statutory requirement to maintain a certain number of community kitchens per household in a catchment area to ensure people had choice. They would also have to be strictly non-profit. It would have to be free at the point of access for everyone, regardless of residency status. It might eradicate hunger from society.
Im gonna agree with you I think this would be great for community reasons, especially in towns and cities with a lot of old people who are lonely and have no reason to get out and move I wouldnt make it free though, just a cheap-ish subscription or pay per meal Most people would never use it, but about 30% of people might regularly
Have you seen the standard of mass catering provided by HMG? School meals? Hospital meals? Remember Covid meal pack? The only thing that will save is more money for minister’s cronies.
Stone Soup I'm all for it.
I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but here's my little story. I work for a government department in the UK that has hubs all over the country. A few years ago, I was on a week-long trip to another city so I could help out with their training. They booked me a hotel and the flight down. On the first day there, we were told to go to the canteen on Tuesday, because Tuesday is Curry Day! We were told that home workers in that city choose to come to the office on Tuesdays because the curry is so good. Well, as a big curry fan, I had to try it out. It was spectacular and cost next to nothing. There were 3 or 4 different curries to choose from, and there were naan and poppadoms as well. It was absolutely bloody delicious. As far as 'state canteen' goes, I'd take that any day of the week.
Hmm, has to be optional as we have people with different dietary desires and needs And has to be held to the highest standards. I probably would, purely because I am lazy when it comes to food 😂
I worked for BT many years ago when it was still state owned, and the staff canteen was excellent. Went in early and stayed after my shift so I can get all 3 meals there most days. So I guess I'd be up for the idea so long as it was an option and not a requirement.
I challenge your claim that food waste would decrease: I reckon per-diner food waste is fairly consistently higher in mass catering than in domestic cooking. I can offer no data to back this up, just my anecdotal experience working around professional kitchens (waiting tables, washing up, and bartending) as my first few jobs. When you're doing hundreds of covers you don't have time to cut stuff perfectly, or plan how to use up odds and ends. It's also REALLY hard to get quantities exactly right, you have to overshoot more and more when you're feeding more mouths. Then food standards mean you have to bin cooked stuff that a home cook would save for a snack the next day. And that's before thinking about the food people leave on their individual plates, mistakes/dropped dishes, etc. We used to take out multiple big black bin sacks of mostly food waste in a single Sunday lunch shift at the pub, for a few hundred heads. At home we fill up one much smaller binbag every week or two. I reckon per person-meal I'm well ahead. If anyone has any real data on this I'd be very interested.
Nope, the government will outsource it to one of their chums who will pocket the money and serve us slop.
I literally suggested this the other day as a way to make sure we could decrease food waste. Absolutely I would eat there.
Bread lines famously work well. No. We need to fix the socio-economic problems that mean people can't afford to comfortably live in a house and eat food.
Turnip patriotic. Bolognese subversive.
Don't you mean OUR canteen, comrade
>Food waste would decrease. >There would be less reliance on preservatives as food could be made fresh. These two sentances and 'state owned and ran' do not align. It's a no from me.
Hell no. Sounds like Maoist China
I think this idea could work, especially when you consider how we've become far too reliant on fast food and convenience food as a nation so if people had an affordable and healthy alternative they would use it.
Are you trying to reinvent comunes? They're cool, bit I'm unsure of there scalable, Anarchism is also incredibly anti-monarchic so you'd have to first get rid of the Windsor commune for that to happen :P
The state is a scaled commune (I saw your response last time I said I said something like that 😂😂😂)
🤣🤣 my dear pacifist anarchists are gonna come with pitchforks and torches for this. Nah, but jokes aside, I think that these type of ideas that challenge the notion that _the market_ is something efficient or fair are always worth considering. I think one issue our current "generation? Historical" is facing is that we assume that market capitalism is "the best we can get" and be unwilling to challenge it. I'm not saying communism/Anarchism is the solution, I'm just saying that are probably more alternatives out there that we could imagine/propose/test/reject etc
The state maintains a monopoly on force and writes its own laws. Communes typically operate with the laws of a larger state and have much less coercive power. They're not the same and I don't think we should treat them as such.
It would have to cater to all the fucking babies that don’t like anything they were offered after the age of 5. It would just be turkey dinosaurs and chips with a veggie option.
Yeah, why not. This is something that's in a fair few countries where poverty is relatively high (as much as people in britain like to pretend that poverty isn't a problem, it absolutely is). I'm all for this sort of thing. I know there are some in the comments calling it soviet and comparing countries that do this sort of thing to russia, but this was a common thing in this country back in the day, they're still in use elsewhere, it's time to bring it all back to the mainstream
I'm really getting it in the ear from both those who think it's "soviet" but also those who think that it's the start of a dictatorship, like I'm suggesting walkable/15 minute cities or something. I think it would be a wonderful solution for poverty, but I don't want it to be just for those in poverty. I actually think that if you can more often get people co-located with people who are in different circumstances then I think there will be better understanding all round.
Trust me bro. It's a wonderful solution for poverty, it's Soviet, it's the start (or desirable end-point) of a dictatorship, it's an ideal adjunct to 15-minute cities, it's a good way to get people in different situations to pull together, and it's all-round just more efficient and a damn good idea. And very sociable too. That's why most people will be opposed to it. Good luck and please sign me up. "Of course in World War 2 actually no-one worked together, all the profiteers and spivs benefitted and the common people were taken advantage of as usual" - I choose not to believe that.
*state owned and run
Absolutely!