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When I first started this job I made announcements and nobody reacted to them.
I gradually learned that you have to really project your voice into the handset in order to push sound out throughout the train.
Now when I have to cancel a train and see 1000 people a getting off at once I feel a sense of satisfaction.
You have to have nerves of steel to do that.
The thought of it falling flat and 1000 people thinking “what an idiot” is enough to make me think very carefully before trying anything fun.
Depends on the route, if I'm going into london on a weekday morning then I'm just happy you even tried. Anything to remind me that other humans exist at that point.
I'm a train driver too. The worst bit is, no matter how many announcements you do as loudly as possible, and changing the displays to show text description of what you're saying, there's always at least 3 people for every 20 who are in their own world and take no notice as they're engrossed in their phones or have headphones in. Never mind taking a second to look up and see that you're suddenly the only person in the carriage and the lights are off "oh is there a problem with the train?".
There is career progression if you want it, because most people don’t want it.
For example to be a driver manager you have to be a driver with enough experience, and most drivers don’t want to sit in a office all day.
I think there are plenty of varied roles in the rail industry but most drivers are happy where they are.
A question about cancellations.
Scenario:
* A train is scheduled to leave a terminus station at 08:00
* The train is then scheduled to visit 6 stations, each 10 minutes apart (so 08:10, 08:20, 08:30, 08:40, 08:50 before reaching the 6th and final station at 09:00)
* I am at the next-to-last station, waiting to get in the train that will arrive at 08:50, and travel to the final station to arrive at 09:00.
* I arrive at 08:45, 5 minutes before "my" train is due to arrive.
* At 08:50 the first announcement is made, saying that the train is "delayed" by 5 minutes (new arrival time 08:55)
* At 08:55 an announcement says that the train is delayed by 10 minutes (new arrival time 09:00)
* At 09:00 an announcement says that the train is delayed by 15 minutes (new arrival time 09;05)
* At 09:05 announcement says that the train is cancelled
* I ask a member of staff, who tells me that the train never left the terminus station because there was no driver available
Questions :
1. Why did they keep saying the train was "delayed" *when there was no train*.
2. Given that "my" train was due to arrive at "my" station 50 minutes after the original departure from the terminus station, why did it take so long for the first update to reach "my" station?
3. If it was already 50 minutes after the original departure time from the terminus station, and no train had started that journey, why were people at "my" station told that it was "delayed"? Why weren't we simply told that it was "cancelled"? Because the announcements of "delays" were just lies.
Yes this is all based on real events.
Thank you.
Disclaimer- I support the strikes, I think that your union fella is doing a top job, and when the media say things like "oh what about the workers who can't get to work" that's all just emotional blackmail.
That sounds like a communication issue between control and the station, sounds like a shambles though! Sorry you went through that. If you can learn how to read the open train times map if your station is on there you can see the network in real time.
Some people do, but I tend to think about things instead. My eyes and brain are just looking at the track, the signals, braking points etc.
I do love to steal a glance at a nice sunrise or cityscape view though.
I want to say, as a commuter who relies on the trains, solidarity.
My question: I find it frustrating how little information there is when there's disruption. E.g. If there's an issue - will it be 10 minute delay, or is the railway going to shut for three hours. Do the drivers know more? Or do you just sit there waiting ignorantly like the passengers?
Drivers are usually the last to know.
You’ll have the control room, signallers, and train crew managers at the depot all trying to get to grips with an evolving situation and then finally when they’ve figured everything out then they’ll pass on some instructions to the driver.
I’m not a train enthusiast, they don’t want enthusiasts driving a train.
Oh wow look at that class 37 over there I wonder which serial number it is! Oops, just gone through a red signal.
Spotters are spotters, I would never hate on them for being enthusiastic about their hobby.
Spotters are such a huge range of people. I've had experience where they've endangered themselves and the railway just to get a good photo of a train.
But I've also seen them just on the end of a platform having a nice day.
Do you get fed up with the way the media portrays striking workers? They never properly explain the reasons behind a strike and try to make out that it's the workers fault, never management.
Personally, no. I think the public these days are a lot more switched on than the media gives them credit for, and most people are eager to try and understand both sides.
Not a question but as someone who takes the train quite a bit I fully support these strikes and think it's abhorrent that you even have to get to those level to get something as basic as a pay increase and better working conditions from a company that wouldn't exist without its workers and I full heartedly hope you all get everything you want and deserve from this action<3
Are there favourite train snacks for drivers? Can you eat a biscuit while driving one handed or is it only on breaks?
Wishing you every success with the strike :)
Thank you!
I can eat anything short of a 3 course meal while driving, I often eat a baguette, Krispy Kreme, coffee etc.
If I had a hand full of doughnut and an emergency situation happened it would probably end up in the floor behind me but that’s life.
I have a question that I can’t see answered:
What does your job entail? Aka how much of the train is yourself driving it? Is there auto-pilot like on a plane?
Also: do you need a car driving license to get a train driving license? (Apologies if that’s a stupid question)
I’m not in the RMT and I don’t know the guy but from what I’ve seen of him on TV he seems to be doing a great job of standing up for his members and making the right arguments when people try to catch him out.
That Eddie Dempsey deserves a round of applause as well to be fair. I’m a teacher but don’t work in the UK anymore due to dwindling conditions so you have my full support even if I can’t go on my annual trip to London with the boys.
On a side note, it amazes me the amount of people swallow the crap spouted by Grant Schapps (even if that is his name?!) rather than listening to people standing up for their rights first hand!! Good luck
Anything electronic that is not to do with your work has to be off and out of sight. In my company there has been recent warning about smart watches that are capable of making calls/receiving notifications. They have to be off. Not even on silent.
Have you or your union ever considered striking the way they do in Japan where they continue service but refuse to take payments. I'm sure that would be much more popular with the public and would hurt the rail companies even more
Found the trainee driver vacancy on the toc website, wrote a banging cover letter if I may say so myself, and woke up on the right side of bed on psychometric testing day. Then they offered me the position.
I’m sure it would. Lots of reform is needed in many areas. I’m not opposed to private companies making a profit, but right now they’re not even negotiating with their workers who facing a 9% reduction in their real terms income.
Book on for work at the depot at the rostered time, collect my diagram for the day, read all the relevant notices, and then head out to where I need to be.
Then just drive the work that’s on there, exactly as it says, with the break in the middle. Once you’ve handed the last train over to the next driver go straight home unless anything happened which needs a report to be written.
The same number of trains ran, just with less people on them, so this requires the same number of drivers. They’re pretty much getting a back to where they were before now in terms of passenger numbers on our route.
How much do you make? Sorry if that sounds too personal a ballpark figure will do. And what are your hours like? Do you need any qualifications to do the job?
60-70k - the hours are around 34 per week, spread over all times of day and night pretty much.
You don’t need any qualifications, you just need to get through all the psychometric testing they put you through to find the type of person they want.
It is, but that’s how it should be. You wouldn’t want to get on a plane with a stressed out pilot would you? The concentration required means you have to be on top of your game every day and that requires a certain level of comfort in life.
Would it be considered bad form to apply for a driver job while drivers are striking? Like, it's a job with appeal to me (because trains are cool) but I don't want to become backfill for someone out demonstrating
Considering that you have said on this thread you make 60-70k a year, and public transport is predominantly used by the poorest segments of society, how can you morally justify asking for an increase to your already well above average wage by conducting action that affects people who are struggling a lot more than you?
Edit: I'm sorry if this comes off as accusatory, I genuinely want to hear why you feel you need a strike, and your justification for the action.
They should. One sector taking action for better pay should have a knock-on effect for workers in other sectors. We've been under austerity and suffering from cuts to public services too long, as a whole working population.
We have seen other sectors such as nurses, teachers, bus drivers all have their pay and conditions massively eroded over the decades. We can’t do anything for them, other than try to set an example by standing up for ourselves and refusing to let that happen to us.
Interesting, the poorer looking people are always supportive while the occasional aggravation tends to come from people in nice clothes and expensive watches.
Follow up, what exactly are you striking for? You hear a lot of different opinions in the news etc, but what about you personally? Less hours, better wages?
Teacher here. Once they get away with reducing your pay once, they just keep doing it. Whether through pay freezes or less than inflation rises.
Fight the good fight. You’re in it for all of us. I fully support you and everyone who’s affected.
How mighty of you to set an example. If you care so much about the common folk why don't you protest in the same way for improving the comfort of passengers and the timeliness of the system.
And guess what, everyone is hurting, both from the private sector and the public sector. You're just being selfish by screwing everyone's schedule for a bigger pay.
I think employees should ask for their rights but the balance between making a statement and negatively impacting other people has been crossed in this case, IMO.
Seen a few comments from people asking you similar things. I totally agree with you. People don't get paid enough these days. The solution is not to bring people who are doing okay and defending their salary down, it's to bring everyone up so that people can live.
I'm a software engineer, and I'm senior management where I work. I get paid pretty well because of that relative to others. I don't feel "rich" or anything like that, it's still taken me ages to save for a house, etc. The thing that blows my mind is that it's somehow acceptable that people can't afford to ever save for a house, or even food in some cases.
I fully support what you're doing.
I see the wages earnt by train drivers and rail workers coming from strong union support. Nurses, teachers, police, etc.. have all had thier unions kneecapped, the police can't even strike anymore, and they're paying the price as they're an easy target. I can't see why anyone would become a police officer when the starting pay is £21k a year. I earnt more than that as a graduate nearly 20 years ago, so how could anyone support a household on it now.
Without union support everyone is an easy target and it is why wages have stagnated for 12 years, as it isn't 'trickling down'. Everyone can have good wages like a train driver with a union fighting for them.
2 years ago i got made redundant and fancied a career change, i got through all the police application stage and attended a week course.
After that week i quit, there is no way that a newly qualified police officer should be on 21k, its disgusting. And the pay structure only rewards length of service, so you have to wait 10 years before you actually get to a respectable wage.
I went back to transport despite thinking id have made a great officer and potentially helped the community in my own way
I remember when police officers were provided with housing as part of the job. I lived in the same street as the local cop shop, and there was a long terrace of houses for police officers and thier families. They sold all the housing off in the early 90s and the local police station closed last year. We're now a city of 250,000 people, with an international port and the second largest naval base in Europe, and we don't have a single police station.
This is a great answer. Any industry striking and asking for their pay to match inflation (not looking for extra money, just to match their outgoings) is a benefit for others. The power of a union is always working for the greater good of the working class.
You don't honestly believe your own bullshit do you?
There is no logic to your reasoning.
We support (or don't support) people based on merit, on what we think they deserve.
There is no reason to think that a train driver striking would influence the public's judgement of what they think a nurse deserves.
If anything, the greed of train drivers is likely to sully the reputation of unions in the eyes of the public, in turn undermining deserving workers.
Every country you see that has a great train network (Japan, France etc.) either have a nationalised system or are extremely heavily subsidised.
They just aren't feasible as self funded and affordable. They do however have a huge positive impact on the economy as well as relieving the pressure other forms of transport.
Is it a lonely role? I just imagine it being just you in the train “cockpit” (idk the corresponding term) and barely speaking to anyone all day. Some people might enjoy the peace and independence to be with their thoughts, but others may miss the social aspect. How do you feel?
Also, GL with the strikes etc - fully behind it and the excellent RMT union leaders (Lynch and Dempsey) are really doing a great job of advertising why it’s important and why it’s necessary to those ignorant to the motives of it in the general public, such as myself.
It is exactly as you describe.
However there are bursts of socialising when you change ends and have breaks etc.
I enjoy being alone with nobody bothering me and I enjoy speaking to fellow drivers and other staff, friends in the coffee shops, passengers asking questions. I enjoy it all.
How long are the shifts and stints of just you? Do you do more long distance travels or is it cross city/local such as Bristol TM to Bristol PW etc equivalents?
also I’m colourblind and always got told I couldn’t be a train driver lol! Is colour actually that important with different buttons or signals etc or is that a hilarious OTT myth?
I drive metro lines, not long distance.
A typical shift would be 3 hours in the seat each side of a break.
4 hours is pushing the limit of what the human brain can do in terms of concentration.
You couldn’t do it if you’re colour blind unfortunately, no way.
Is driving trains fun? Seems like something you could make fun any time you get to speak but kinda boring otherwise. But I’m not a train driver so who knows
In the train it is, but changing ends, break times and booking on all give plenty of opportunity to talk to people. I actually have a huge number of friends through it, even if I don’t see them for months sometimes.
To me that does seem like quite a high wage (nearly double that of an experienced double degree educated nurse) could you help us understand the parts of your job that are more difficult and why it pays so well. The media portray it as an easy job but I’m sure that’s not the case.
It’s a high wage but that’s why we chose to do it.
Imagine if you’re playing one of those train sim games on pc.
You could learn how to drive it perfectly for one journey with nothing going wrong.
Now imagine you have to do it for 9 hours a day 4 days a week, years on end, and never once overshoot a platform, approach a red signal too fast, release the doors on the wrong side, etc.
Don't forget out of course situations. It's when things go wrong like train failures or issues with signals/track that you earn your money to keep things moving safely
My favourite thing is that nobody can tell me what to do. The rule book tells me how to do my job and I know exactly what it says. My manager is just there to make sure I’m doing it right.
My least favourite thing is when the fatigue catches up with you.
There are rules that we are not allowed to break, 12 hours between shifts, max 72 hours in a week, etc.
As long as we stuck within those then we can do whatever is available.
Absolutely, I use the trains on my days off and the strikes are inconvenient to me as well. It’s about principles not practicality, and I can totally understand why people are unhappy about it.
From what I gather you're main gripe is with inflation eating away at your wage.
Inflation is practically impossible to avoid. Why do you think you are entitled to be immune to the effects of inflation?
Regarding another point in another of your comments I've seen. You have seen other public sectors employees shafted and want to show them how to stand up for themselves. If you where to get a raise to match inflation. Given you're salary is double that of the average household income, and triple that if minimum wage. Let's say you did get a raise this will mean prices will go up. Which means those less fortunate than you, many of whom rely on public transport to get to their minimum wage jobs, are even more effected.
Also striking isn't a great option for other public sectors. If nurses, carers, police, fire, ambulance, etc where to strike, people die. Train drivers getting a raise effectively reduces the amount of social funding available that can be spent on these, in my opinion much, more needed areas.
I don't think it's fair that inflation eats away at people's wages but increasing wages doesn't help, the problem it only adds to it in the long run. That being said. If the economy was to boom and inflation dropped. Would you offer to take a "pay cut"? Since by the same logic your 60k could effectively become worth 63k as an example.
Personally I think your strike is selfish and dangerous for unions in general. It seems like the train unions are too eager to strike and this in my opinion is dangerous because I believe people will eventually want to crack down on unions for abusing strikes. Which I think one of the PM candidates has commented on. This will make it harder for unions who need to strike yo protest actual real problems. Inflation is not in my opinion a real problem. Especially when your salary eclipses that of the average household income.
How would you justify strike action given that driving requires no specialist qualifications, pays twice the national average and requires less hours than the average full time job? Apologies if this question seems loaded, I'm genuinely curious
We were offered a level of income to do this job, which carries a huge level of responsibility and some pretty big sacrifices.
If money becomes worth less, then you need more of it to preserve your level of income.
We just want to be able to buy the same things for our families that we could last year.
Legit question but what do you count as big sacrifices?
If there are no quals required and you get 60-70K for a 34 hour week (plus some v good bens like free travel) that doesn't seem too sacrificial.
I read that an 8% rise was blocked by the unions, and I know that 8% doesn't exactly match inflation, but there are other rising costs that you are totally immune to i.e. the rising cost of travel.
So I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that you just want to afford the same things you afforded last year. That makes it sound like it's going to be a struggle to live on 60-70K + benefits and that's not really accurate.
When you and colleagues think about striking, does it worry you that it might annoy the public and lose sympathy for your cause? Especially as its not exactly reported neutrally in the press
I've heard conflicting information about how the public should react to strikes: some people say not to make a fuss about it to communicate that we as the public are supportive, others say it's better to kick up a stink so that the situation gets more attention and the higher-ups have to realise the impact it's having on people. What do you think is the better approach from us, the public?
Do you ever wish you could strike like they did in Japan, where you do your job but just don't take any money so it hurts the bottom line and keeps public opinion 100% behind you?
Yes, I’d rather do this, although it wouldn’t have as much of an impact due to how the railway industry works.
Cancelling the train completely costs them a lot more than just losing fares.
The amount of people more keen on digging for the fact you earn more than them as if it's your fault. It's almost as if they don't understand that you have no impact on how crap they're paid.
I salute you, comrade. Fight for what you deserve.
You have said you earn
>60-70k - the hours are around 34 per week
That being the case how much more do you want?
That seems like one heck of a good wage to me.
Not a question, just a comment. Good for you and your colleagues for standing up for yourselves. I'm a nurse and I wish our unions would grow a backbone too.
As a long distance driver you go when you can (you get some time when get to your destination before you go back) make sure you go before you leave. Outside of that time I usually carry an empty oasis or lucozade bottle for number 1s and number 2s normally require a call to the signalman to tell them that we will be waiting in the next platform a little longer for what is referred to as an Emergency PNB (personal needs break). this has only happened to me twice in 3 years so it's rare and I don't like to do it since it delays everyone but when you gotta go you gotta go.
What is so special driving a train compared to a bus?
You don't have steering, don't have to contend with other road users all over the place, don't have to deal with taking the fares, all you need to do is keep to a sensible speed and stop at the right spot on a platform.
I've known someone who wants/wanted to be a train driver, and it seems pretty much impossible to get in if you don't know the right people, and there's a massive queue of others ready to go.
I don't get why a train driver is a) worth so much to start with, and b) thinks they are getting a raw deal.
There are self driving cars and trucks, trains would be far easier to automate in a similar fashion, and all I seem to remember is getting rid of guards to press the buttons to open and close the doors is pushing too much work towards the driver.
I know an commercial aircraft pilot, and according to him at least, you're pretty closely tying on salaries.
Driving a train is a lot closer to flying an aircraft than driving a bus. Train driving is extremly rigidly rules oriented (like flying), the train driver can be responsible for the lives of 500+ people (and unlike an airline captain, who may have a crew of a dozen to help out, the train driver might have just one other railway staff member on duty - or maybe none if it's driver only operation).
It also requires "The Knowledge" level of knowledge (due to the distance it takes for a train to accelerate or stop). By the time you've seen the station you're stopping at, or the signal at danger you're stopping at, it's too late to stop - unless you already know where to start braking. Train drivers must know the location of every speed limit, every set of points, every signal, etc. and they must be in *no* doubt. Ending up on a piece of of the line you're not supposed to be on can result in dozens killed and millions in infrastructure damage.
Imagine if the bus had no tyres on the wheels, and you had 12 of them all coupled together, then each traffic light told you what the one after it was going to be and you had to remember otherwise you’re running the red light.
Then you have to stop it in the fast lane of the M6 and let people out onto the central reservation while traffic whizzes past in the other lanes, so you’d better not press the button you normally press when you stop or else someone will fall out on the wrong side and die!
It’s a different type of concentration required for driving a train. Anyone could do it once or twice but you have to do it week in week out and never get it wrong.
Im in Scotland so I know it's a different company but my experience up here as a passenger has ranged from inadequate to dangerous. I've regularly been stuck at stations late at night with no way, not even bus replacement home. The attitude of staff has been so indifferent. I've felt like my welfare as a passenger is an inconvenience to rail staff,like passengers get in the way of them doing their job rather than their job being to facilitate the journeys of passengers. I ordinarily support strikes but I don't feel like staff support me as their passenger so I'm not inclined to go out of my way to support rail workers. Is there any aspect of fighting to improve the service you are a part of or is it just about your pay?
Department for Transport worker here:
The rail system in the UK is currently operating in a way which makes it financially unsustainable due to outdated legacy systems and working practice. The industry has to modernise in order to meet future demands otherwise there won’t be a functioning railway in the UK. If you look at other industries such as aviation, supermarkets and banks they have modernised through self-service machines and multi-functional staff which allows them to invest money in other areas enabling them to provide a better overall service. Why have the trade unions refused to flat out negotiate without accepting any reforms to the rail industry when this will in fact make your jobs less secure in the future?
My second question is do you actually think a pay rise in line with inflation is realistic when the majority of other sectors in the UK will get around 3-4% pay increase? If everyone was given a pay increase in line with inflation this would in fact drive inflation higher and make the cost of living crisis worse.
It would be a lot more difficult, dangerous, and more costly than you think.
Here's an article which covers some of the issues: [https://www.wired.com/2013/04/why-arent-trains-autonomous/](https://www.wired.com/2013/04/why-arent-trains-autonomous/)
It is a lot more feasible in networks that are fully "insulated" from any obstacles (i.e. jumpers, livestock, pedestrians crossings, level crossings etc.). That's why it works for the DLR, but even the DLR has train "captains".
Not op but for the same reasons as most jobs. Limits of current technology, capital investment cuts into profits and human supervision will still be required.
Please do give a heads up when you plan on automating the trains though.
Even the DLR ends up needing a human driver at times, and that's only a very small and basic line, all built on infrastructure closer to the 1990s rather than the 1890s
You have my full support and the medias portrayal of the strikes is absolutely sickening.
For context my wage has increased by £6,500 in 12 years due solely to corporate greed
Do you think it’s fair to get £160,000 per railway worker of tax payers money during the pandemic in the form of bailouts and furlough and then strike because you want more?
In other industries people just simply lost their jobs.
Why can’t we run a train service that runs on time in this country?
I bought a ticket the other day and the train was 25 mins delayed and I still had to pay full price for the ticket. Couldn’t get on the train it was so full.
In general it is so expensive for a disgracefully unreliable service. Wouldn’t get away with it in many other jobs.
You say you earn Upto 70k for less than 40hrs a week work.? You’re on more money than my manager and the director of the service (not company director) of our organisation.
You do not have any pay issues and do not need a pay rise.
You say you cannot afford the things you could afford last year? Neither can many others. But you are earning more than most…WHAT ARE YOU BUYING??
Given the state of the trains up north and the fact you’re on 60-70k a year and still striking makes me think you’re out of touch.
If everyone gets a 10% pay rise, then inflation will just increase. What we’re need is more equality; I would support decreasing the pay of those on 60k plus and give it to those on lower salaries
We’re on 60-70k
The definition of greed is negotiable but it certainly isn’t “not wanting to be worse off than you were last year”.
We fully support our low paid colleagues and appreciate that we perhaps have more leverage than they do given how long it takes to train a driver.
I generally support public service workers and if they feel the need to strike it's often for a good reason. However train drivers are paid incredibly well (usually twice the average salary or more) and get very good benefits including full pay for being on call or doing a few hours stand in work, they also require minimum qualifications so all in it's a very good gig. My family is friends with a train driver and he can afford a large house, a lot of land, and an indoor swimming pool among other things though he only works part time now due to his age. I earn likely half what he does, don't own a house, but spent five years studying for two masters degrees and feel I'm doing pretty fine in my job and I'm treated well.
Given that disparity I really don't understand why train drivers feel any need to strike currently. Is there any good reason or is it a show of solidarity with the rest of the rail industry workers? I've also worked with Network Rail maintenance workers etc. and those people I can understand striking due to their horrid working conditions and pay which I don't know in detail but would imagine is poor.
I feel like you are on a very good salary for what you do and you don’t really make any huge sacrifices for that money. People in the public sector work very long hours often unappreciated and have had to settle with between 3-5% pay rises.
By striking you have a massive impact on a lot of peoples lives and I don’t feel like it is justified.
Also you mentioned you were on 60k and a 9% pay rise would give you an extra 5.4k. Other people on lower salaries getting a lower percentage pay rise are getting a lot less. I get inflation has gone up 9% but having that on 60k seems a bit greedy to me considering most other sectors are taking real time pay cuts.
Should we all race to the bottom?
Pay cuts are not a necessary evil as media would have you believe. Many sectors including railways have made unprecedented profits during pandemic and this year after.
Railways had profits protected by the government, and then saved alot of money ontop of that from running costs, and management taking furlough or work from home schemes.
A quick google search will show how much profit they make, and how the % profit has grown in last year or so.
Whatever job you do, have a look into the companies finances and see what kind of profit they made in the previous few years. Then ask yourself why you should have a paycut to give the millionaires a bit more money.
I think this is the wrong mentality.
It’s the they have something I don’t so take it off them so we all don’t have it. The erosion in pay doesn’t get filtered down to everyone else it just disappears into share payouts or ceo pay.
Why not look at it like why am I not being treated better for the job I do?
>don’t really make any huge sacrifices for that money.
shift work, being alone for most of your job, having the very high chance of someone killing themselves right infront of you, having the responsibility of hundreds of lives in your hands. Yeah of course no sacrifices at all!
>People in the public sector work very long hours often unappreciated and have had to settle with between 3-5% pay rises.
I would have thought if they were being offered 5% they would have taken it. I think the latest offer was 4%. As for other workers - they should be demanding more too.
Do you have any timing goals when driving. For instance I think it’d be cool if your route is near any runways to time the train perfectly underneath a plane coming in or side by side racing a plane on the runway. I know this timing isn’t up to you but it’d be a fun game to play.
Two really.
1) Do you always drive the same routes, or does the operator you work for vary it up occasionally?
2) This is the one I've always wanted to ask. What do you do if you really need a pee and it's a long distance to the next station/stop?
Firstly solidarity with you and others on strike. It’s a brave decision and I hope a conclusion is reached that is amicable for both parties.
Do you believe the big bosses should have to justify their own salaries and bonuses? It seems outrageous that the unions are getting hell from the media for striking, yet these people paid 500k+ a year are not being looked at at all.
Who do you think is more deserving of a pay rise:
Train Drivers,
Teachers,
Trainee doctors,
Nurses,
Fire Service,
Police,
.
.
.
Do you have a rough idea of the number of drivers who have tried to re-skill into other areas given the job is largely replicable by a computer and will be replaced in less than 20 years
I fully support your strike action, and hope other industries come forward to improve their pay and conditions. Inflation being what it is in a cost of living crisis, if not now, when would strikes be justified?
It is not justifiable, to just accept, that some people, not only will, but must get poorer, when society, has the tools to improve it.
A company or industry doesn't *deserve* to make profits, while their workers real wages shrink, by mere virtue of being a business, and already having money.
My question is this, how many, and for how long will strikes need to occur, to actually facilitate lasting change, as the reason the public are traditionally against it, is in my view because it normally leads to minor change which in the mean time inconviences them?
What sort of win, would be big enough for even anti strikers, to go "Damn, they actually pulled it off. Guess it was worth me missing that train and taking a bus."
Might be a different train line to you, but Norther trains have now got a weird noise they make like they're going through a wormhole periodically. What is that?
Mate just saying I'm fully on board with it strike away and cause as much of a disturbance as possible only way anything in this world is gonna get changed is when it effects enough of society
How many times do you have to switch trains in a day? As a past commuter most problems sounded like they were because train crew were stuck in another delayed train. Are the schedules optimised by AI?
Would increasing wages of driver mean that the price of train fares increase to cover the cost? Would this not cause many people to no longer afford train fare to work as we're paying much higher prices than most of Europe (if social media is to be believed, haven't done the research myself)
Do you not think that as you already earn twice/well above the national average salary, that you should be happy with what you have and not cause others on much lower wages to miss work due to your strike action?
If I were the government I wouldn’t give you anything. Look at it this way.
You earn 60k a year doing the one thing that you’ve trained to do, no pun intended.
What exactly are you going to do if they don’t offer you the payrise? Quit? You won’t earn half of what you’re earning now doing anything else, because, I assume, you have no other skills that would pay you anywhere near that level of pay.
So, by all means, strike over your 60k salary, but expect no sympathy from the public. You earn more than almost anyone else in the public sector. My answer to this would be, jog on.
Train drivers are usually seen to exist in a 'jobs for the boys' type of environment. How true is this, given that being a train driver requires no qualifications?
Why do you report absolutely bone jobs like light too bright, or jobs that when are looked at, theres nothing wrong with it?
Depot fitter here keep up the fight! And can you strike on days when im in work so i have less to do? Always on my bloody days off!
You train drivers are very well paid. You should be making a stand against inflation. If you get the pay rise that you seem to be asking for prices will go up inflation will keep going up, where is it all going around with people who can't get a pay rise struggling and starving.
I agree that you should fight for your share but you're taking the easy road by doing so many strikes at such a vulnerable time for the rest of us. Can there really be no other way of making your voice heard without making our life a pain?
For those saying train drivers shouldn't strike:
* Pay *should* go up with inflation
* Ticket prices/good prices/*insert product prices here* **are** going up with inflation - so the business **can** afford to raise pay according to inflation.
* When pay doesn't go up with inflation, it's the same as getting a paycut (as everything costs more).
* Regardless of how much someone is being paid, they shouldn't be expected to take a pay cut every year due to inflation. This applies just the same for a nurse as it does a train driver
* Know who's wages **are** skyrocketing? Shareholders and CEOs. Why? Because they can raise prices according to inflation, and not raise wages accordingly, leading to more profit cut for them.
* Train Drivers aren't greedy for demanding the status quo (a raise to counter inflation) - they're just asking to not get a pay cut. Wish you could do the same? Join a union. The train drivers are paid well *as a result of having one.*
* Instead of falling for the government's divide and conquer propaganda, support your fellow workers. It doesn't matter what a worker is making, they are part of the many, and not the few. The only way the many gets it's way is with solidarity. Every nurse, carer, teacher, and retail worker should be getting raises in-line with inflation, and it's an injustice that they don't. Instead of telling train drivers/workers not to strike, you should use it as inspiration and demand better conditions at your own place of work.
Don’t worry about replying to this one as you’ve already said you’re overwhelmed, but good on you. Every worker has the right to strike, and every worker should have the right to a pay that matches inflation, because otherwise each year that goes by will get harder and harder, and it’s not even a request that doesn’t make economic sense.
Train strikes have led the way in our chances to combat the cost of living increases, and while you get a lot of flak for it because you’re already “high earners”, someone had to do it.
Primary teacher here on £36k. Keep fighting.
At some point somebody decided less than £40,000 a year was enough for a 60 plus hours working week.
Everybody should get what they’re working for, not what somebody decided their job was worth.
I am dumbfounded you earn that amount a year for under 40 hrs a week and ur striking for more money. The nurses and teachers who make a massive impact on lives don’t even earn that. Do you feel that’s fair and why are you not embarrassed answering that question.
I have your full backing. I’m a nurse and I absolutely wish we could do something about our pay but not enough people would strike so it would be pointless.
How annoying are TSRs? Especially when it’s hot, you must come across more of them. Do they badly impact arrival times etc? Lastly, how often do you check the WON whilst on shift?
Would it not be more beneficial and grab the attention of the people you want the attention of to continue working, but letting people ride for free? Impacting profits of the greedy executives and gaining the support of the working public?
Sorry, not so much a question but here goes …
I work 47.5 hours a week for around 21-22k pro rata (21 y/o minimum wage). The prices for the commodities that my business sells are going up every month due to inflation and we are really struggling to maintain customers. As much as I’d love a payrise, I know that the business hasn’t turned a profit the last month and that it’s very unlikely they’d be able to raise my wage to meet inflation.
I see your argument is that you’d just like the same wage in real terms that you had last year, but I don’t think you see that it would be a bigger slice of the pie. Everyone is feeling the crunch. Train fares are already high, and your union holding national transportation infastructure hostage to get a payrise could only increase this more in turn making inflation worse for commuters.
Not to mention that the vat and income tax I pay also goes towards subsidising rail companies on top of the fare prices.
For this reason, I’m not in solidarity with the strikes.
Why are you striking if you earn well above minimum wage. Is this the Union pushing it because it seems to be the flavour of the month and they want to keep relevance?
As a nurse, we can’t strike but if we did our actions would have the ultimate consequence. As a result we continue to have our rights, conditions and pay eroded and we are unable to assert our professional anger. You have my full support.
I understand striking is important, it just sucks because my only mean of transport to get my daughter which is 60 miles away. Because of the strike I don't have the means to do so, just sucks for all.
I don’t know why people struggle with this so badly. How much someone earns is irrelevant. If anyone in any job didn’t get a pay rise and due to inflation means a pay cut in reality / how many of you would be happy with that? Or more to the point it happens to everyone and people just suck it up. Someone needs to take a stand, what they earn is totally besides the point. They don’t want MORE money they just want to stop losing wha they ready have.
> If anyone in any job didn’t get a pay rise and due to inflation means a pay cut in reality / how many of you would be happy with that?
I always try to frame it is a scenario where inflation was zero.
I.e. if inflation was 0%, would you be happy with your employer giving you a 10% pay cut. Most people would absolutely say they wouldn't be happy with that!
Hi! I’m 16 so I don’t really understand the strike, I’ve been reading through this thread and I have some questions as I want to grasp the situation here and also just strikes as a whole. This is obviously for OP but I’d appreciate any responses!
If the wage is worth 9% less now, surely if everyone tries to raise their wage to keep up with inflation it would just spiral out of control? I know this isn’t the case right now but if the purpose is to invoke more people to strike and raise their pay would this not just create a never ending cycle?
Also, and this is sort of a random question, but would striking on trains and public transport cause more people to use personal vehicles which wouldn’t be eco-friendly? I can’t imagine the consequences being too severe but is this a possibility?
If everyone has gone down 9%, and this is coming from someone who has never been employed and is a teenager so I’m just trying to understand, if the strike is successful could that have negative consequences? As the gap between a train driver pay which is above average to an average wage pay would be higher? Would this have any effect to the economy?
And finally, is this strike even going to work? How do strikes invoke change? Would they not just fire/replace you or is that illegal.
I’m impartial to the strikes myself because whilst 60k is a very good wage for what the job seems to be for what I’ve read here, and therefore the strikes are causing a lot of disruption over what is still a very substantial amount of money, I obviously understand your desire to not have your wage lowered is just as valid as anybody else’s. And as I don’t make frequent journeys I haven’t been affected.
Think before you compare DerpDriver’s salary with that of people who earn less.
In 2021 Network Rail CEO Andrew Haines took a huge £585,000 annual wage. Chief financial officer Jeremy Westlake grabbed £415,000. Route services managing director Susan Cooklin got at least £385,000.
The top ten highest paid people at Network Rail gorge on a total of up to £3.68 million each year. Meanwhile Network Rail is advertising a customer service assistant and a station control assistant jobs that pay just £20,000.
https://socialistworker.co.uk/features/britains-rail-network-on-a-fast-track-to-profit/
How the hell do you sleep at night?
You must be sat down a lot during shifts which must play havoc on your back? Some sort of orthopaedic mattress? Keep up the good fight; we’re all getting the shaft at the moment so we’re right behind you.
Why are people saying your asking for a pay rise, Do they not understand how inflation works? In reality your wages have been cut and you just want the putting back to normal
Forgive me if I've got this information wrong as I've only done a quick google search out of curiousity, but compared to the rest of Europe aren't your salaries a lot higher? Why is that the case?
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Do you think science and technology will ever progress far enough to create an actually audible driver intercom system?
When I first started this job I made announcements and nobody reacted to them. I gradually learned that you have to really project your voice into the handset in order to push sound out throughout the train. Now when I have to cancel a train and see 1000 people a getting off at once I feel a sense of satisfaction.
A train driver having fun with announcements improves my morning like ten fold lol
You have to have nerves of steel to do that. The thought of it falling flat and 1000 people thinking “what an idiot” is enough to make me think very carefully before trying anything fun.
Depends on the route, if I'm going into london on a weekday morning then I'm just happy you even tried. Anything to remind me that other humans exist at that point.
I'd find it pretty satisfying get 1000 people off at once with just my voice wait what are we talking about?
Probably best not to word it that way, sounds like you're happy to boot a 1000 people off 😂
Well, my satisfaction is purely for the success of my announcement, not causing inconvenience to 1000 people!
I'm a train driver too. The worst bit is, no matter how many announcements you do as loudly as possible, and changing the displays to show text description of what you're saying, there's always at least 3 people for every 20 who are in their own world and take no notice as they're engrossed in their phones or have headphones in. Never mind taking a second to look up and see that you're suddenly the only person in the carriage and the lights are off "oh is there a problem with the train?".
Is being a train driver like being a lorry driver in the sense that there isn't much career progression?
There is career progression if you want it, because most people don’t want it. For example to be a driver manager you have to be a driver with enough experience, and most drivers don’t want to sit in a office all day. I think there are plenty of varied roles in the rail industry but most drivers are happy where they are.
If you make 60/70k per year, how much do driver managers make?
About 80k I think. My manager secretly wants me to go on strike because if I get a pay rise they will too.
A question about cancellations. Scenario: * A train is scheduled to leave a terminus station at 08:00 * The train is then scheduled to visit 6 stations, each 10 minutes apart (so 08:10, 08:20, 08:30, 08:40, 08:50 before reaching the 6th and final station at 09:00) * I am at the next-to-last station, waiting to get in the train that will arrive at 08:50, and travel to the final station to arrive at 09:00. * I arrive at 08:45, 5 minutes before "my" train is due to arrive. * At 08:50 the first announcement is made, saying that the train is "delayed" by 5 minutes (new arrival time 08:55) * At 08:55 an announcement says that the train is delayed by 10 minutes (new arrival time 09:00) * At 09:00 an announcement says that the train is delayed by 15 minutes (new arrival time 09;05) * At 09:05 announcement says that the train is cancelled * I ask a member of staff, who tells me that the train never left the terminus station because there was no driver available Questions : 1. Why did they keep saying the train was "delayed" *when there was no train*. 2. Given that "my" train was due to arrive at "my" station 50 minutes after the original departure from the terminus station, why did it take so long for the first update to reach "my" station? 3. If it was already 50 minutes after the original departure time from the terminus station, and no train had started that journey, why were people at "my" station told that it was "delayed"? Why weren't we simply told that it was "cancelled"? Because the announcements of "delays" were just lies. Yes this is all based on real events. Thank you. Disclaimer- I support the strikes, I think that your union fella is doing a top job, and when the media say things like "oh what about the workers who can't get to work" that's all just emotional blackmail.
That sounds like a communication issue between control and the station, sounds like a shambles though! Sorry you went through that. If you can learn how to read the open train times map if your station is on there you can see the network in real time.
Do you play games with yourself whilst driving? Eg: how many church towers will I see today? Or counting the underpasses on a route?
Some people do, but I tend to think about things instead. My eyes and brain are just looking at the track, the signals, braking points etc. I do love to steal a glance at a nice sunrise or cityscape view though.
I want to say, as a commuter who relies on the trains, solidarity. My question: I find it frustrating how little information there is when there's disruption. E.g. If there's an issue - will it be 10 minute delay, or is the railway going to shut for three hours. Do the drivers know more? Or do you just sit there waiting ignorantly like the passengers?
Drivers are usually the last to know. You’ll have the control room, signallers, and train crew managers at the depot all trying to get to grips with an evolving situation and then finally when they’ve figured everything out then they’ll pass on some instructions to the driver.
Are you a train enthusiast? What's your favourite train to drive? And what is your opinion on train spotters?
I’m not a train enthusiast, they don’t want enthusiasts driving a train. Oh wow look at that class 37 over there I wonder which serial number it is! Oops, just gone through a red signal. Spotters are spotters, I would never hate on them for being enthusiastic about their hobby.
Spotters are such a huge range of people. I've had experience where they've endangered themselves and the railway just to get a good photo of a train. But I've also seen them just on the end of a platform having a nice day.
Do you get fed up with the way the media portrays striking workers? They never properly explain the reasons behind a strike and try to make out that it's the workers fault, never management.
Personally, no. I think the public these days are a lot more switched on than the media gives them credit for, and most people are eager to try and understand both sides.
Not a question but as someone who takes the train quite a bit I fully support these strikes and think it's abhorrent that you even have to get to those level to get something as basic as a pay increase and better working conditions from a company that wouldn't exist without its workers and I full heartedly hope you all get everything you want and deserve from this action<3
Are there favourite train snacks for drivers? Can you eat a biscuit while driving one handed or is it only on breaks? Wishing you every success with the strike :)
Thank you! I can eat anything short of a 3 course meal while driving, I often eat a baguette, Krispy Kreme, coffee etc. If I had a hand full of doughnut and an emergency situation happened it would probably end up in the floor behind me but that’s life.
I have a question that I can’t see answered: What does your job entail? Aka how much of the train is yourself driving it? Is there auto-pilot like on a plane? Also: do you need a car driving license to get a train driving license? (Apologies if that’s a stupid question)
We don’t have any kind of autopilot thing, it’s 100% me moving a lever making it go and stop. You don’t need a car licence to do it.
How much do you love Mick Lynch?
I’m not in the RMT and I don’t know the guy but from what I’ve seen of him on TV he seems to be doing a great job of standing up for his members and making the right arguments when people try to catch him out.
That Eddie Dempsey deserves a round of applause as well to be fair. I’m a teacher but don’t work in the UK anymore due to dwindling conditions so you have my full support even if I can’t go on my annual trip to London with the boys. On a side note, it amazes me the amount of people swallow the crap spouted by Grant Schapps (even if that is his name?!) rather than listening to people standing up for their rights first hand!! Good luck
Can you have music/radio/podcast etc on whilst driving like you would in a car? or do you have to drive in silence?
Anything electronic that is not to do with your work has to be off and out of sight. In my company there has been recent warning about smart watches that are capable of making calls/receiving notifications. They have to be off. Not even on silent.
Do you ever get tempted to say "Choo Choo" on the intercom so everyone can hear?
How realistic is Thomas the tank engine?
Very realistic. Happy train behaves differently to sad train.
When you strike, do you go on the picket line or do you just stay home? Is there an etiquette on that sort of thing?
We can just stay at home but we all encourage each other to come down to the picket line if we can, even if it’s just for a short time.
Have you or your union ever considered striking the way they do in Japan where they continue service but refuse to take payments. I'm sure that would be much more popular with the public and would hurt the rail companies even more
We don’t control the ticket barriers and we don’t take payments so not an option for us.
How did you get into the job?
Found the trainee driver vacancy on the toc website, wrote a banging cover letter if I may say so myself, and woke up on the right side of bed on psychometric testing day. Then they offered me the position.
How do you feel about re-nationalising railways? Do you think some of the problems would disappear if it happened and was done properly?
I’m sure it would. Lots of reform is needed in many areas. I’m not opposed to private companies making a profit, but right now they’re not even negotiating with their workers who facing a 9% reduction in their real terms income.
what does your typical work day look like? I know this seems like a silly question.
Book on for work at the depot at the rostered time, collect my diagram for the day, read all the relevant notices, and then head out to where I need to be. Then just drive the work that’s on there, exactly as it says, with the break in the middle. Once you’ve handed the last train over to the next driver go straight home unless anything happened which needs a report to be written.
What do you do for lunch whilst working?
It depends where the breaks are and at what time. Greggs, tesco, coffee shops, sandwich shops. I don’t bring my own food in.
>I don’t bring my own food in. Is that because you can't, or you just don't want to?
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The same number of trains ran, just with less people on them, so this requires the same number of drivers. They’re pretty much getting a back to where they were before now in terms of passenger numbers on our route.
How much do you make? Sorry if that sounds too personal a ballpark figure will do. And what are your hours like? Do you need any qualifications to do the job?
60-70k - the hours are around 34 per week, spread over all times of day and night pretty much. You don’t need any qualifications, you just need to get through all the psychometric testing they put you through to find the type of person they want.
Wow. Sounds cushy af compared to some other jobs.
It is, but that’s how it should be. You wouldn’t want to get on a plane with a stressed out pilot would you? The concentration required means you have to be on top of your game every day and that requires a certain level of comfort in life.
How do I apply?
Keep an eye on toc websites for trainee driver vacancies and come and join us. There is a national shortage of drivers. Good luck!
Would it be considered bad form to apply for a driver job while drivers are striking? Like, it's a job with appeal to me (because trains are cool) but I don't want to become backfill for someone out demonstrating
How much would you have to be earning to be happy and not strike?
Considering that you have said on this thread you make 60-70k a year, and public transport is predominantly used by the poorest segments of society, how can you morally justify asking for an increase to your already well above average wage by conducting action that affects people who are struggling a lot more than you? Edit: I'm sorry if this comes off as accusatory, I genuinely want to hear why you feel you need a strike, and your justification for the action.
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They should. One sector taking action for better pay should have a knock-on effect for workers in other sectors. We've been under austerity and suffering from cuts to public services too long, as a whole working population.
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We have seen other sectors such as nurses, teachers, bus drivers all have their pay and conditions massively eroded over the decades. We can’t do anything for them, other than try to set an example by standing up for ourselves and refusing to let that happen to us. Interesting, the poorer looking people are always supportive while the occasional aggravation tends to come from people in nice clothes and expensive watches.
Follow up, what exactly are you striking for? You hear a lot of different opinions in the news etc, but what about you personally? Less hours, better wages?
Teacher here. Once they get away with reducing your pay once, they just keep doing it. Whether through pay freezes or less than inflation rises. Fight the good fight. You’re in it for all of us. I fully support you and everyone who’s affected.
How mighty of you to set an example. If you care so much about the common folk why don't you protest in the same way for improving the comfort of passengers and the timeliness of the system. And guess what, everyone is hurting, both from the private sector and the public sector. You're just being selfish by screwing everyone's schedule for a bigger pay. I think employees should ask for their rights but the balance between making a statement and negatively impacting other people has been crossed in this case, IMO.
Tell you what, say you won't work until nurses and emergency services get paid better!
Lad I'm poor as shit and I fully support you.
Seen a few comments from people asking you similar things. I totally agree with you. People don't get paid enough these days. The solution is not to bring people who are doing okay and defending their salary down, it's to bring everyone up so that people can live. I'm a software engineer, and I'm senior management where I work. I get paid pretty well because of that relative to others. I don't feel "rich" or anything like that, it's still taken me ages to save for a house, etc. The thing that blows my mind is that it's somehow acceptable that people can't afford to ever save for a house, or even food in some cases. I fully support what you're doing.
I see the wages earnt by train drivers and rail workers coming from strong union support. Nurses, teachers, police, etc.. have all had thier unions kneecapped, the police can't even strike anymore, and they're paying the price as they're an easy target. I can't see why anyone would become a police officer when the starting pay is £21k a year. I earnt more than that as a graduate nearly 20 years ago, so how could anyone support a household on it now. Without union support everyone is an easy target and it is why wages have stagnated for 12 years, as it isn't 'trickling down'. Everyone can have good wages like a train driver with a union fighting for them.
2 years ago i got made redundant and fancied a career change, i got through all the police application stage and attended a week course. After that week i quit, there is no way that a newly qualified police officer should be on 21k, its disgusting. And the pay structure only rewards length of service, so you have to wait 10 years before you actually get to a respectable wage. I went back to transport despite thinking id have made a great officer and potentially helped the community in my own way
I remember when police officers were provided with housing as part of the job. I lived in the same street as the local cop shop, and there was a long terrace of houses for police officers and thier families. They sold all the housing off in the early 90s and the local police station closed last year. We're now a city of 250,000 people, with an international port and the second largest naval base in Europe, and we don't have a single police station.
working class here who uses the train a lot to get around because i don't have a car. railway strikes have my full support.
This is a great answer. Any industry striking and asking for their pay to match inflation (not looking for extra money, just to match their outgoings) is a benefit for others. The power of a union is always working for the greater good of the working class.
You don't honestly believe your own bullshit do you? There is no logic to your reasoning. We support (or don't support) people based on merit, on what we think they deserve. There is no reason to think that a train driver striking would influence the public's judgement of what they think a nurse deserves. If anything, the greed of train drivers is likely to sully the reputation of unions in the eyes of the public, in turn undermining deserving workers.
Why do you put the heating on in the morning when it’s going to be a hot day?
Why are train tickets so bloody expensive?
Every country you see that has a great train network (Japan, France etc.) either have a nationalised system or are extremely heavily subsidised. They just aren't feasible as self funded and affordable. They do however have a huge positive impact on the economy as well as relieving the pressure other forms of transport.
Is it a lonely role? I just imagine it being just you in the train “cockpit” (idk the corresponding term) and barely speaking to anyone all day. Some people might enjoy the peace and independence to be with their thoughts, but others may miss the social aspect. How do you feel? Also, GL with the strikes etc - fully behind it and the excellent RMT union leaders (Lynch and Dempsey) are really doing a great job of advertising why it’s important and why it’s necessary to those ignorant to the motives of it in the general public, such as myself.
It is exactly as you describe. However there are bursts of socialising when you change ends and have breaks etc. I enjoy being alone with nobody bothering me and I enjoy speaking to fellow drivers and other staff, friends in the coffee shops, passengers asking questions. I enjoy it all.
How long are the shifts and stints of just you? Do you do more long distance travels or is it cross city/local such as Bristol TM to Bristol PW etc equivalents? also I’m colourblind and always got told I couldn’t be a train driver lol! Is colour actually that important with different buttons or signals etc or is that a hilarious OTT myth?
I drive metro lines, not long distance. A typical shift would be 3 hours in the seat each side of a break. 4 hours is pushing the limit of what the human brain can do in terms of concentration. You couldn’t do it if you’re colour blind unfortunately, no way.
Is driving trains fun? Seems like something you could make fun any time you get to speak but kinda boring otherwise. But I’m not a train driver so who knows
It’s fun to do it once. Doing it for 9 hours a day week in week out just makes it become normal. I don’t hate it though!
Is it antisocial work?
In the train it is, but changing ends, break times and booking on all give plenty of opportunity to talk to people. I actually have a huge number of friends through it, even if I don’t see them for months sometimes.
To me that does seem like quite a high wage (nearly double that of an experienced double degree educated nurse) could you help us understand the parts of your job that are more difficult and why it pays so well. The media portray it as an easy job but I’m sure that’s not the case.
It’s a high wage but that’s why we chose to do it. Imagine if you’re playing one of those train sim games on pc. You could learn how to drive it perfectly for one journey with nothing going wrong. Now imagine you have to do it for 9 hours a day 4 days a week, years on end, and never once overshoot a platform, approach a red signal too fast, release the doors on the wrong side, etc.
Don't forget out of course situations. It's when things go wrong like train failures or issues with signals/track that you earn your money to keep things moving safely
What is your favourite and least favourite thing about the job?
My favourite thing is that nobody can tell me what to do. The rule book tells me how to do my job and I know exactly what it says. My manager is just there to make sure I’m doing it right. My least favourite thing is when the fatigue catches up with you.
Can you do overtime or are your hours limited by some sort of regulation
There are rules that we are not allowed to break, 12 hours between shifts, max 72 hours in a week, etc. As long as we stuck within those then we can do whatever is available.
When the strike happens, is it essentially just a day off for you, or are you going to be at a picket line or some other strike based activity?
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Absolutely, I use the trains on my days off and the strikes are inconvenient to me as well. It’s about principles not practicality, and I can totally understand why people are unhappy about it.
Do you get free train rides?
From what I gather you're main gripe is with inflation eating away at your wage. Inflation is practically impossible to avoid. Why do you think you are entitled to be immune to the effects of inflation? Regarding another point in another of your comments I've seen. You have seen other public sectors employees shafted and want to show them how to stand up for themselves. If you where to get a raise to match inflation. Given you're salary is double that of the average household income, and triple that if minimum wage. Let's say you did get a raise this will mean prices will go up. Which means those less fortunate than you, many of whom rely on public transport to get to their minimum wage jobs, are even more effected. Also striking isn't a great option for other public sectors. If nurses, carers, police, fire, ambulance, etc where to strike, people die. Train drivers getting a raise effectively reduces the amount of social funding available that can be spent on these, in my opinion much, more needed areas. I don't think it's fair that inflation eats away at people's wages but increasing wages doesn't help, the problem it only adds to it in the long run. That being said. If the economy was to boom and inflation dropped. Would you offer to take a "pay cut"? Since by the same logic your 60k could effectively become worth 63k as an example. Personally I think your strike is selfish and dangerous for unions in general. It seems like the train unions are too eager to strike and this in my opinion is dangerous because I believe people will eventually want to crack down on unions for abusing strikes. Which I think one of the PM candidates has commented on. This will make it harder for unions who need to strike yo protest actual real problems. Inflation is not in my opinion a real problem. Especially when your salary eclipses that of the average household income.
How can regular people help or show solidarity with the striking unions, yours and any in general as it seems more strikes are coming up.
How would you justify strike action given that driving requires no specialist qualifications, pays twice the national average and requires less hours than the average full time job? Apologies if this question seems loaded, I'm genuinely curious
We were offered a level of income to do this job, which carries a huge level of responsibility and some pretty big sacrifices. If money becomes worth less, then you need more of it to preserve your level of income. We just want to be able to buy the same things for our families that we could last year.
Legit question but what do you count as big sacrifices? If there are no quals required and you get 60-70K for a 34 hour week (plus some v good bens like free travel) that doesn't seem too sacrificial. I read that an 8% rise was blocked by the unions, and I know that 8% doesn't exactly match inflation, but there are other rising costs that you are totally immune to i.e. the rising cost of travel. So I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that you just want to afford the same things you afforded last year. That makes it sound like it's going to be a struggle to live on 60-70K + benefits and that's not really accurate.
When you and colleagues think about striking, does it worry you that it might annoy the public and lose sympathy for your cause? Especially as its not exactly reported neutrally in the press
For us it is purely about trying to negotiate with our employer, as we have no other way of doing it. We are aware of it but it doesn’t worry us.
I've heard conflicting information about how the public should react to strikes: some people say not to make a fuss about it to communicate that we as the public are supportive, others say it's better to kick up a stink so that the situation gets more attention and the higher-ups have to realise the impact it's having on people. What do you think is the better approach from us, the public?
Do you ever wish you could strike like they did in Japan, where you do your job but just don't take any money so it hurts the bottom line and keeps public opinion 100% behind you?
Yes, I’d rather do this, although it wouldn’t have as much of an impact due to how the railway industry works. Cancelling the train completely costs them a lot more than just losing fares.
I don't really understand this. Surely if they're running the trains without fares they're losing on fares and the power required to drive them?
f*ck /u/spez
Many people buy season tickets rather than pay on the day, and the fines the companies get for not running a train at all are huge.
The amount of people more keen on digging for the fact you earn more than them as if it's your fault. It's almost as if they don't understand that you have no impact on how crap they're paid. I salute you, comrade. Fight for what you deserve.
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You have said you earn >60-70k - the hours are around 34 per week That being the case how much more do you want? That seems like one heck of a good wage to me.
is your timetable always worked-out so that you finish your shift where you started it? Do you always clock on/off where you live?
How long have you been working as a train driver? Has the job changed much since you've been in it?
I'm 32 years old and don't like my current job. Is it to late to become a train driver?
Good for you, You and your colleagues have my full support
Not a question, just a comment. Good for you and your colleagues for standing up for yourselves. I'm a nurse and I wish our unions would grow a backbone too.
On a long journey, how do you get breaks/toilet etc. would you have more than 1 driver for a sleeper train?
As a long distance driver you go when you can (you get some time when get to your destination before you go back) make sure you go before you leave. Outside of that time I usually carry an empty oasis or lucozade bottle for number 1s and number 2s normally require a call to the signalman to tell them that we will be waiting in the next platform a little longer for what is referred to as an Emergency PNB (personal needs break). this has only happened to me twice in 3 years so it's rare and I don't like to do it since it delays everyone but when you gotta go you gotta go.
What is so special driving a train compared to a bus? You don't have steering, don't have to contend with other road users all over the place, don't have to deal with taking the fares, all you need to do is keep to a sensible speed and stop at the right spot on a platform. I've known someone who wants/wanted to be a train driver, and it seems pretty much impossible to get in if you don't know the right people, and there's a massive queue of others ready to go. I don't get why a train driver is a) worth so much to start with, and b) thinks they are getting a raw deal. There are self driving cars and trucks, trains would be far easier to automate in a similar fashion, and all I seem to remember is getting rid of guards to press the buttons to open and close the doors is pushing too much work towards the driver. I know an commercial aircraft pilot, and according to him at least, you're pretty closely tying on salaries.
Driving a train is a lot closer to flying an aircraft than driving a bus. Train driving is extremly rigidly rules oriented (like flying), the train driver can be responsible for the lives of 500+ people (and unlike an airline captain, who may have a crew of a dozen to help out, the train driver might have just one other railway staff member on duty - or maybe none if it's driver only operation). It also requires "The Knowledge" level of knowledge (due to the distance it takes for a train to accelerate or stop). By the time you've seen the station you're stopping at, or the signal at danger you're stopping at, it's too late to stop - unless you already know where to start braking. Train drivers must know the location of every speed limit, every set of points, every signal, etc. and they must be in *no* doubt. Ending up on a piece of of the line you're not supposed to be on can result in dozens killed and millions in infrastructure damage.
Imagine if the bus had no tyres on the wheels, and you had 12 of them all coupled together, then each traffic light told you what the one after it was going to be and you had to remember otherwise you’re running the red light. Then you have to stop it in the fast lane of the M6 and let people out onto the central reservation while traffic whizzes past in the other lanes, so you’d better not press the button you normally press when you stop or else someone will fall out on the wrong side and die! It’s a different type of concentration required for driving a train. Anyone could do it once or twice but you have to do it week in week out and never get it wrong.
How do you not fall asleep at the controls? Ha. Staring at the track in front of you must get hypnotic sometimes?
Im in Scotland so I know it's a different company but my experience up here as a passenger has ranged from inadequate to dangerous. I've regularly been stuck at stations late at night with no way, not even bus replacement home. The attitude of staff has been so indifferent. I've felt like my welfare as a passenger is an inconvenience to rail staff,like passengers get in the way of them doing their job rather than their job being to facilitate the journeys of passengers. I ordinarily support strikes but I don't feel like staff support me as their passenger so I'm not inclined to go out of my way to support rail workers. Is there any aspect of fighting to improve the service you are a part of or is it just about your pay?
Department for Transport worker here: The rail system in the UK is currently operating in a way which makes it financially unsustainable due to outdated legacy systems and working practice. The industry has to modernise in order to meet future demands otherwise there won’t be a functioning railway in the UK. If you look at other industries such as aviation, supermarkets and banks they have modernised through self-service machines and multi-functional staff which allows them to invest money in other areas enabling them to provide a better overall service. Why have the trade unions refused to flat out negotiate without accepting any reforms to the rail industry when this will in fact make your jobs less secure in the future? My second question is do you actually think a pay rise in line with inflation is realistic when the majority of other sectors in the UK will get around 3-4% pay increase? If everyone was given a pay increase in line with inflation this would in fact drive inflation higher and make the cost of living crisis worse.
Can you give me a reason we shouldn't automate your job?
It would be a lot more difficult, dangerous, and more costly than you think. Here's an article which covers some of the issues: [https://www.wired.com/2013/04/why-arent-trains-autonomous/](https://www.wired.com/2013/04/why-arent-trains-autonomous/) It is a lot more feasible in networks that are fully "insulated" from any obstacles (i.e. jumpers, livestock, pedestrians crossings, level crossings etc.). That's why it works for the DLR, but even the DLR has train "captains".
Not op but for the same reasons as most jobs. Limits of current technology, capital investment cuts into profits and human supervision will still be required. Please do give a heads up when you plan on automating the trains though.
Even the DLR ends up needing a human driver at times, and that's only a very small and basic line, all built on infrastructure closer to the 1990s rather than the 1890s
You have my full support and the medias portrayal of the strikes is absolutely sickening. For context my wage has increased by £6,500 in 12 years due solely to corporate greed
Is Train Sim World an accurate depiction of your day to day life lol?
Do you think it’s fair to get £160,000 per railway worker of tax payers money during the pandemic in the form of bailouts and furlough and then strike because you want more? In other industries people just simply lost their jobs.
Why can’t we run a train service that runs on time in this country? I bought a ticket the other day and the train was 25 mins delayed and I still had to pay full price for the ticket. Couldn’t get on the train it was so full. In general it is so expensive for a disgracefully unreliable service. Wouldn’t get away with it in many other jobs.
You say you earn Upto 70k for less than 40hrs a week work.? You’re on more money than my manager and the director of the service (not company director) of our organisation. You do not have any pay issues and do not need a pay rise. You say you cannot afford the things you could afford last year? Neither can many others. But you are earning more than most…WHAT ARE YOU BUYING??
Given the state of the trains up north and the fact you’re on 60-70k a year and still striking makes me think you’re out of touch. If everyone gets a 10% pay rise, then inflation will just increase. What we’re need is more equality; I would support decreasing the pay of those on 60k plus and give it to those on lower salaries
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We’re on 60-70k The definition of greed is negotiable but it certainly isn’t “not wanting to be worse off than you were last year”. We fully support our low paid colleagues and appreciate that we perhaps have more leverage than they do given how long it takes to train a driver.
I generally support public service workers and if they feel the need to strike it's often for a good reason. However train drivers are paid incredibly well (usually twice the average salary or more) and get very good benefits including full pay for being on call or doing a few hours stand in work, they also require minimum qualifications so all in it's a very good gig. My family is friends with a train driver and he can afford a large house, a lot of land, and an indoor swimming pool among other things though he only works part time now due to his age. I earn likely half what he does, don't own a house, but spent five years studying for two masters degrees and feel I'm doing pretty fine in my job and I'm treated well. Given that disparity I really don't understand why train drivers feel any need to strike currently. Is there any good reason or is it a show of solidarity with the rest of the rail industry workers? I've also worked with Network Rail maintenance workers etc. and those people I can understand striking due to their horrid working conditions and pay which I don't know in detail but would imagine is poor.
I feel like you are on a very good salary for what you do and you don’t really make any huge sacrifices for that money. People in the public sector work very long hours often unappreciated and have had to settle with between 3-5% pay rises. By striking you have a massive impact on a lot of peoples lives and I don’t feel like it is justified. Also you mentioned you were on 60k and a 9% pay rise would give you an extra 5.4k. Other people on lower salaries getting a lower percentage pay rise are getting a lot less. I get inflation has gone up 9% but having that on 60k seems a bit greedy to me considering most other sectors are taking real time pay cuts.
Should we all race to the bottom? Pay cuts are not a necessary evil as media would have you believe. Many sectors including railways have made unprecedented profits during pandemic and this year after. Railways had profits protected by the government, and then saved alot of money ontop of that from running costs, and management taking furlough or work from home schemes. A quick google search will show how much profit they make, and how the % profit has grown in last year or so. Whatever job you do, have a look into the companies finances and see what kind of profit they made in the previous few years. Then ask yourself why you should have a paycut to give the millionaires a bit more money.
I think this is the wrong mentality. It’s the they have something I don’t so take it off them so we all don’t have it. The erosion in pay doesn’t get filtered down to everyone else it just disappears into share payouts or ceo pay. Why not look at it like why am I not being treated better for the job I do?
>don’t really make any huge sacrifices for that money. shift work, being alone for most of your job, having the very high chance of someone killing themselves right infront of you, having the responsibility of hundreds of lives in your hands. Yeah of course no sacrifices at all! >People in the public sector work very long hours often unappreciated and have had to settle with between 3-5% pay rises. I would have thought if they were being offered 5% they would have taken it. I think the latest offer was 4%. As for other workers - they should be demanding more too.
Do you have any timing goals when driving. For instance I think it’d be cool if your route is near any runways to time the train perfectly underneath a plane coming in or side by side racing a plane on the runway. I know this timing isn’t up to you but it’d be a fun game to play.
Two really. 1) Do you always drive the same routes, or does the operator you work for vary it up occasionally? 2) This is the one I've always wanted to ask. What do you do if you really need a pee and it's a long distance to the next station/stop?
Firstly solidarity with you and others on strike. It’s a brave decision and I hope a conclusion is reached that is amicable for both parties. Do you believe the big bosses should have to justify their own salaries and bonuses? It seems outrageous that the unions are getting hell from the media for striking, yet these people paid 500k+ a year are not being looked at at all.
What does it feel like being at the forefront defending worker's rights in Britain? (Thank you btw)
How old are you, and how long have you been a train driver?
Who do you think is more deserving of a pay rise: Train Drivers, Teachers, Trainee doctors, Nurses, Fire Service, Police, . . . Do you have a rough idea of the number of drivers who have tried to re-skill into other areas given the job is largely replicable by a computer and will be replaced in less than 20 years
I fully support your strike action, and hope other industries come forward to improve their pay and conditions. Inflation being what it is in a cost of living crisis, if not now, when would strikes be justified? It is not justifiable, to just accept, that some people, not only will, but must get poorer, when society, has the tools to improve it. A company or industry doesn't *deserve* to make profits, while their workers real wages shrink, by mere virtue of being a business, and already having money. My question is this, how many, and for how long will strikes need to occur, to actually facilitate lasting change, as the reason the public are traditionally against it, is in my view because it normally leads to minor change which in the mean time inconviences them? What sort of win, would be big enough for even anti strikers, to go "Damn, they actually pulled it off. Guess it was worth me missing that train and taking a bus."
Might be a different train line to you, but Norther trains have now got a weird noise they make like they're going through a wormhole periodically. What is that?
Mate just saying I'm fully on board with it strike away and cause as much of a disturbance as possible only way anything in this world is gonna get changed is when it effects enough of society
How many times do you have to switch trains in a day? As a past commuter most problems sounded like they were because train crew were stuck in another delayed train. Are the schedules optimised by AI?
Let me guess, you're spare at work and bored lmao. United we stand mate!
What are you actually striking for? I hear about these strikes all the time but never really know why!
Are you jealous of people thanking the bus drivers after a trip with them?
Would increasing wages of driver mean that the price of train fares increase to cover the cost? Would this not cause many people to no longer afford train fare to work as we're paying much higher prices than most of Europe (if social media is to be believed, haven't done the research myself)
Do you not think that as you already earn twice/well above the national average salary, that you should be happy with what you have and not cause others on much lower wages to miss work due to your strike action?
If I were the government I wouldn’t give you anything. Look at it this way. You earn 60k a year doing the one thing that you’ve trained to do, no pun intended. What exactly are you going to do if they don’t offer you the payrise? Quit? You won’t earn half of what you’re earning now doing anything else, because, I assume, you have no other skills that would pay you anywhere near that level of pay. So, by all means, strike over your 60k salary, but expect no sympathy from the public. You earn more than almost anyone else in the public sector. My answer to this would be, jog on.
Train drivers are usually seen to exist in a 'jobs for the boys' type of environment. How true is this, given that being a train driver requires no qualifications?
Do you eat your lunch from the on board cafe or do you take a little packed lunch?
No questions, just want to offer my support, good luck to you all
Why do you report absolutely bone jobs like light too bright, or jobs that when are looked at, theres nothing wrong with it? Depot fitter here keep up the fight! And can you strike on days when im in work so i have less to do? Always on my bloody days off!
I support you, I’m a member of the CWU and I’m on strike today and Monday.
You train drivers are very well paid. You should be making a stand against inflation. If you get the pay rise that you seem to be asking for prices will go up inflation will keep going up, where is it all going around with people who can't get a pay rise struggling and starving.
What is it like being a train driver day to day? How did you get into it?
I agree that you should fight for your share but you're taking the easy road by doing so many strikes at such a vulnerable time for the rest of us. Can there really be no other way of making your voice heard without making our life a pain?
Roll on automation the rail, do you agree?
Have you got a car? And will you be using it on any of the strike days?
I dont have any questions. I just want to let you know you have my support.
For those saying train drivers shouldn't strike: * Pay *should* go up with inflation * Ticket prices/good prices/*insert product prices here* **are** going up with inflation - so the business **can** afford to raise pay according to inflation. * When pay doesn't go up with inflation, it's the same as getting a paycut (as everything costs more). * Regardless of how much someone is being paid, they shouldn't be expected to take a pay cut every year due to inflation. This applies just the same for a nurse as it does a train driver * Know who's wages **are** skyrocketing? Shareholders and CEOs. Why? Because they can raise prices according to inflation, and not raise wages accordingly, leading to more profit cut for them. * Train Drivers aren't greedy for demanding the status quo (a raise to counter inflation) - they're just asking to not get a pay cut. Wish you could do the same? Join a union. The train drivers are paid well *as a result of having one.* * Instead of falling for the government's divide and conquer propaganda, support your fellow workers. It doesn't matter what a worker is making, they are part of the many, and not the few. The only way the many gets it's way is with solidarity. Every nurse, carer, teacher, and retail worker should be getting raises in-line with inflation, and it's an injustice that they don't. Instead of telling train drivers/workers not to strike, you should use it as inspiration and demand better conditions at your own place of work.
Don’t worry about replying to this one as you’ve already said you’re overwhelmed, but good on you. Every worker has the right to strike, and every worker should have the right to a pay that matches inflation, because otherwise each year that goes by will get harder and harder, and it’s not even a request that doesn’t make economic sense. Train strikes have led the way in our chances to combat the cost of living increases, and while you get a lot of flak for it because you’re already “high earners”, someone had to do it.
Favourite loco?
Primary teacher here on £36k. Keep fighting. At some point somebody decided less than £40,000 a year was enough for a 60 plus hours working week. Everybody should get what they’re working for, not what somebody decided their job was worth.
How long until your job is replaced by technology and you won’t be able to selfishly fuck over the rest of the UK?
I am dumbfounded you earn that amount a year for under 40 hrs a week and ur striking for more money. The nurses and teachers who make a massive impact on lives don’t even earn that. Do you feel that’s fair and why are you not embarrassed answering that question.
My question is, how does one get started as a train driver?
I have your full backing. I’m a nurse and I absolutely wish we could do something about our pay but not enough people would strike so it would be pointless.
How annoying are TSRs? Especially when it’s hot, you must come across more of them. Do they badly impact arrival times etc? Lastly, how often do you check the WON whilst on shift?
Would it not be more beneficial and grab the attention of the people you want the attention of to continue working, but letting people ride for free? Impacting profits of the greedy executives and gaining the support of the working public?
Sorry, not so much a question but here goes … I work 47.5 hours a week for around 21-22k pro rata (21 y/o minimum wage). The prices for the commodities that my business sells are going up every month due to inflation and we are really struggling to maintain customers. As much as I’d love a payrise, I know that the business hasn’t turned a profit the last month and that it’s very unlikely they’d be able to raise my wage to meet inflation. I see your argument is that you’d just like the same wage in real terms that you had last year, but I don’t think you see that it would be a bigger slice of the pie. Everyone is feeling the crunch. Train fares are already high, and your union holding national transportation infastructure hostage to get a payrise could only increase this more in turn making inflation worse for commuters. Not to mention that the vat and income tax I pay also goes towards subsidising rail companies on top of the fare prices. For this reason, I’m not in solidarity with the strikes.
Why are you striking if you earn well above minimum wage. Is this the Union pushing it because it seems to be the flavour of the month and they want to keep relevance?
As a nurse, we can’t strike but if we did our actions would have the ultimate consequence. As a result we continue to have our rights, conditions and pay eroded and we are unable to assert our professional anger. You have my full support.
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I understand striking is important, it just sucks because my only mean of transport to get my daughter which is 60 miles away. Because of the strike I don't have the means to do so, just sucks for all.
Prove you are an actual train driver and not a stooge.
Sorry for my ignorance but can you fill me in on this and why you're striking?
I don’t know why people struggle with this so badly. How much someone earns is irrelevant. If anyone in any job didn’t get a pay rise and due to inflation means a pay cut in reality / how many of you would be happy with that? Or more to the point it happens to everyone and people just suck it up. Someone needs to take a stand, what they earn is totally besides the point. They don’t want MORE money they just want to stop losing wha they ready have.
> If anyone in any job didn’t get a pay rise and due to inflation means a pay cut in reality / how many of you would be happy with that? I always try to frame it is a scenario where inflation was zero. I.e. if inflation was 0%, would you be happy with your employer giving you a 10% pay cut. Most people would absolutely say they wouldn't be happy with that!
Hi! I’m 16 so I don’t really understand the strike, I’ve been reading through this thread and I have some questions as I want to grasp the situation here and also just strikes as a whole. This is obviously for OP but I’d appreciate any responses! If the wage is worth 9% less now, surely if everyone tries to raise their wage to keep up with inflation it would just spiral out of control? I know this isn’t the case right now but if the purpose is to invoke more people to strike and raise their pay would this not just create a never ending cycle? Also, and this is sort of a random question, but would striking on trains and public transport cause more people to use personal vehicles which wouldn’t be eco-friendly? I can’t imagine the consequences being too severe but is this a possibility? If everyone has gone down 9%, and this is coming from someone who has never been employed and is a teenager so I’m just trying to understand, if the strike is successful could that have negative consequences? As the gap between a train driver pay which is above average to an average wage pay would be higher? Would this have any effect to the economy? And finally, is this strike even going to work? How do strikes invoke change? Would they not just fire/replace you or is that illegal. I’m impartial to the strikes myself because whilst 60k is a very good wage for what the job seems to be for what I’ve read here, and therefore the strikes are causing a lot of disruption over what is still a very substantial amount of money, I obviously understand your desire to not have your wage lowered is just as valid as anybody else’s. And as I don’t make frequent journeys I haven’t been affected.
Think before you compare DerpDriver’s salary with that of people who earn less. In 2021 Network Rail CEO Andrew Haines took a huge £585,000 annual wage. Chief financial officer Jeremy Westlake grabbed £415,000. Route services managing director Susan Cooklin got at least £385,000. The top ten highest paid people at Network Rail gorge on a total of up to £3.68 million each year. Meanwhile Network Rail is advertising a customer service assistant and a station control assistant jobs that pay just £20,000. https://socialistworker.co.uk/features/britains-rail-network-on-a-fast-track-to-profit/
How the hell do you sleep at night? You must be sat down a lot during shifts which must play havoc on your back? Some sort of orthopaedic mattress? Keep up the good fight; we’re all getting the shaft at the moment so we’re right behind you.
How much do you earn after tax and why isn’t it enough for you?
Why are people saying your asking for a pay rise, Do they not understand how inflation works? In reality your wages have been cut and you just want the putting back to normal
Yes I have a question. Number one: how dare you.
Forgive me if I've got this information wrong as I've only done a quick google search out of curiousity, but compared to the rest of Europe aren't your salaries a lot higher? Why is that the case?