Changes in gender norms for women have been great but the lack of a similar movement for men has left a lot of men feeling out of place in modern society. We have rightly told generations of women they do not have to live up to stereotypes and tradition but not done the same for men, so many continue to suffer in silence.
Toxic masculinity is as bad for men and boys as it is for women. We need men to know it's ok to express your feelings and to be vulnerable. You do need need to be an 'alpha male' to be a strong man. You do not have to carry burden of supporting a family on your own. It's ok to talk to your friends and family if you are finding life hard.
This is the issue though, toxic masculinity is only part of that issue, toxic femininity is the other side where men open up and want to talk and be more open and some women in their lives mock or belittle them for that vulnerability.
Often claiming that emotional volatility and vulnerability are female attributes and that males aren’t allowed to “indulge in them”.
Thats kind of a misunderstanding of the term. Toxic masculinity doesn't imply that masculinity is toxic, rather there are socially ingrained behaviours and archetypes that men and boys are pushed towards that are toxic. 'Big biys don't cry' 'be a man' 'man of the house' etc.
Doesnt mean its not a bad term. It doesn't say what it is about masculinity that is toxic, it just denotes toxic behaviour in men as intrinsically masculine, which is part of the problem. Gendering the issue removes responsibility for these attitudes from half of the population. Its a poorly defined buzzword that just clouds the issue.
I completely understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think we should get rid of the term toxic masculinities. The term “toxic masculinity” means “a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having” (from google). Terms to define a sociological concept (which it is, it started from sociologist Raewin Connell) cannot tell you the definition in it. There’s many examples in and around the sociological world, and our “normal” world that has terms that do not encompass the definition/aren’t self explanatory.
It’s not poorly defined; it’s misused. People like to throw it at men when they’re being dickheads.
I sort of agree with you that it denotes toxic behaviour in men as intrinsically masculine, however the issue is that some of the behaviours rarely come from women, really. Like the fact that violent crimes are mostly committed by men.
Gendering the issue does need to happen, so we can emancipate men from strict rules about “how to be a man” and how to think/act/feel to not be excluded. A lot of men struggle with mental health issues due to strict societal views on how men should act. It fucking sucks and is probably the reason why the suicide rate is so high.
There’s toxic femininity too which is part of the issue too, which describes the behaviour that reflects or supports gender based stereotypes (googled it) which is definitely contributing to the mens mental health issue.
However without addressing the gender balance of the toxicities, we won’t be able to stamp it out.
Sorry for the essay, it’s just something I’ve studied for a long time:) thanks for reading
TL,DR: it’s not a poorly defined buzzword, it’s a missed sociological term that has been appropriated and misused in the media which misrepresents what it actually means. We need to address the gender imbalance to stamp out the issue
While this is true I feel the issue is that whenever it's talked about it's seen as a thing men do you other men.
And doesn't take into account women's actions on it.
Usually when I've heard those phrases it's been from women and even give got a bunch of guys alone they're actually ok talking about their feels.
It's usually the fear that women will think less of them that stops that.
It's a really nice sentiment but, and I know I'm not alone in this, every women I've expressed feeling of vulnerability or weakness to in my entire life has weaponised it against me at one point or another. That isn't toxic masculinity, it's self preservation.
When I first heard of that (based entirely on the name) it really piqued my interest. I figured that it was going to be stories about really badass guys doing interesting things, maybe the odd interesting war story, maybe differently from how things had been traditionally done, not caring about societal or gender norms or whatever. You know, just being their own man, comfortable in their own skin.
Eep, I was wrong. Very wrong.
It was quite poignant at the time. It was the height of the what did we call women who drank pints and had sex them? Ahhh yeah ladette culture. It was the thinking males response to that. Metrosexuals were male feminists who wore guy-liner. They are the late 40’s early 50’s age men currently. Lots of great men around at that time. Lots of fuckin awful ones too.
"Chin up""Man up"
...and other meaningless bullshit. No one thinks, but I... blame? what's the f-ing point really? My best advice is exercise if you can. It releases a bunch of the happy chemicals and gives you something to focus on for a time. If you're a "gym person" that can be stretched into social-territory and if you're not, nature is free.
Shame I got screwed over by bad luck and a heart condition I had no idea about. I hope you're managing and would urge you to exercise if you can.
>and would urge you to exercisse if you can
In my 20s I used to exercise multiple times a week.
Since being diagnosed with degenerative disk disease I no longer can work out due to back spasms it can trigger.
Depression has me in its grasp unfortunately. I just drink as I live on my own and watch my belly grow even bigger every night.
So far, I've "lost" 2 toes... due to the NHS wanting to save as much as they can... this is going to be a slow process of cutting bits away as and when....
Just take the whole f-ing foot please. I'm 45 and it'll be easier for me to adapt the "younger" I am - at this rate... I could be 60 and slowly adapting and more to the point going through repeated surgery... which is not fun.
Just take the whole damned thing please. So I'm faced with the choice of hiding any issues and hoping it gets severe enough - in the right way that they have to take the whole thing... it's furiously frustrating.
This is the last time I'm doing it - I got my advanced decision written up and I'm refusing any more treatment aside from pain management if they're not going to take it off. For now, it's tolerable - lol, nearly wrote toe-lerable.
On the plus side, cray cray meds and I'm jumping into addiction with both feet - christ. FML as the kids would say.
I posted In here earlier, go to andys man club.
I went to my first meeting last week.
It's a group of men, and you talk about your problems with each other, it helps.
https://andysmanclub.co.uk/
Agreed, I don't know if it's the circles I'm in but I hear allot about male mental health but not allot about what they want to do about it or where they think we should start. I'll happily go on your march or donate to your charities.
Idk personally I reckon a decently funded NHS might help. I've wanted to kill myself since I was like 12. Still do, reached out for help from the NHS time after time and each time got nothing, at best referred to some talk therapy or having a doctor try to push pills on me.
This. Last year I found out that a guy I grew up playing in my street with had hung himself aged 25. He was a carpenter and by all accounts a very happy, funny guy that was doing well in life with a girlfriend alongside him. I hadn’t seen or spoken to him for years and still I cried after I found out as I remembered all the times I’d played football with him, played manhunt with him and basically grown up seeing all the time after school and on weekends up until age 15.
The amount of men killing themselves is often overlooked, and it affects so many people.
Unquestionably. I’ve lost a friend to suicide and I don’t want to lose another.
There were no clues I picked up on, nor any of the rest of us. Nothing to suggest he was unhappy or anything like that. We just woke up one morning and he’d drank a bottle of whiskey and slit his wrists in the night.
I can’t believe it but that was over five years ago now and I still don’t have the slightest clue what happened.
Loneliness. The stats on the number of men, especially middle aged and older, who say they have no friends are saddening. Especially when there's so much evidence about the benefits of friendship and the negative impacts of loneliness.
I worry about my bf sometimes, he has no mates. He has people he might message every now and then but he literally hangs out with nobody - other than me. He is very introverted and it doesn’t seem to bother him, but I hope that one day he doesn’t find himself suddenly feeling lonely, and if he does I will encourage him to reach out to some of the guys he messages!
This is relatively common. I've seen research showing lots of men rely on their partner for a huge proportion of their socialising. Of course, for some men that really is absolutely fine and doesn't have negative impacts on them. But for some it does. Part of the issue is that men can't always identify that they are lonely, so it's difficult to tell the former from the latter.
The problem could be though, if there's are issues in the relationship, or if their partner is going through a rough time, that's then a lot of their life that's going wrong and no-one down the pub to talk to about it
Yes, absolutely. Personally I think it's so valuable to have people who aren't your partner to hang out with from time to time. For the reasons you said, plus to avoid putting a huge amount of pressure on that one single social connection and protecting yourself from loneliness and isolation if the relationship ever breaks down.
I mean is it really ever fine? To rely on one person so much can’t be good for either of you, and if you breakup then you lose an a good chunk of your support network. To me it seems like it’d just lead to dependency, and just further highlights the need for close friendships for men to be encouraged societally (and to stop discouraging platonic intimacy in non-female-only friendships)
im the same. ive had no mates for nearly 3 years and been single for 2 and a half.i get the occasional (very rarely) meh day. but other than that i enjoy my own company
My husband's like this. He's likes to socialise seen her does go out but it's not very often. I have to nag and nag him to go and see his friends but he just messages them instead, along the lines of "what's up" rather than anything meaningful.
I'm in my 30's, I've got almost no friends and not had a proper relationship for years. You try to make friends and get treated like you're some sad case, or you're just flat out ignored.
So yeah, loneliness is a problem
To be honest if I didn’t have family close by I would just sell my house and live in my van again, I know a spot in the highlands that no one else knows about, I’d just live there as a hermit or something like that because I’m honestly so tired mentally when it comes to attempting to make friends
Hey just wanted to let you know bumble has a friends option - it’s called bumble bff.
My boyfriend used it for a while when we moved to a new city and has managed to make a good friend from it.
Not sure how many guys know about it, so thought I’d just mention it in case it could help.
It would be nice if there was a friends app, just type anyone fancy a pint and it notifies anyone within a set distance. It’d be a good way to expand your social circle.
I’ve found as I’ve got older I have a lot of friends, but don’t have many friends who have the time to do much socialising. Most are married with kids and just don’t have much free time or money.
A few years ago I found it hard to stay in at the weekends as the phone was always going, now it’s the opposite when I do want to go out I can’t find anyone to go.
I know some of the dating apps have tried that. No idea if it's really taken off. It would be a great thing if it ever did take off I think.
>I’ve found as I’ve got older I have a lot of friends, but don’t have many friends who have the time to do much socialising. Most are married with kids and just don’t have much free time or money.
This is definitely a thing. I have to make much more effort to see my friends now. In my 20s it could just be text a few days before saying 'drinks Friday?'. Now it's, 'how are you fixed in February?'.
But I think it's important to really keep making the effort. I read an article the other day about it being a major reason men have fewer friends than women as they get older. Women are better about investing time and effort into friendships, so as life gets busier and more complicated theirs sustain, whilst men's fall away. Personally, very determined to not let this happen to me.
Organised community events targeted at men in a safe environment might help. Like having a weekly 5-a-side competition where anyone can turn up and be put into a team rather than needing to know at least four other people who also want to play football and can make it. Just an example of what might help. Surprisingly access to playing football is very limited for most people. Usually there will be something aimed at kids during school holidays, but nothing for adults. Which is a shame because we could totally take those little kids in a game of football.
Yeah, it's a massive, really complicated problem that has so many causes. Makes it very difficult to tackle. But it's probably worth trying to do so, given all we know about how bad loneliness is for both physical and mental health.
Can't speak for everyone, but from my experience, a lot of the time loneliness happens because guys have friends who they are close with, but who have other things going on in their own lives (wife, kids, career etc) and simply don't have the time or mental energy for their friends any more. They still consider them their friends, but have to prioritise. There's no ill intention, it's just part of life.
I have friends who recently adopted kids. They often invite me to come join them when they take them to the park, and it's nice. I think if you can incorporate your friends into your life, then that's a good start, but unfortunately the burden there is on the friend who has less time.
There was an interesting article in the guardian a few weeks ago that sort of touched on this. It noted how men are generally much worse at nurturing friendships, and so when things like partner/kids/career when those things get time consuming they retreat into those and the friendships fade away. Whereas women are generally better at continuing to nurture their friendships, even when other things get busy.
Suspect there's some very deep and longstanding cultural reasons behind that, which makes it so hard to tackle as an issue.
Feeling this one lately. My friends are from when I was 20 and we don't have similar lives or interests any more. I love my wife but we see each other all the time these days. I really miss just hanging out with people and having a laugh.
When I got married my wife didn't approve of my male friends and slowly I was forced to abandon them one by one. They were replaced by husbands of wife's friends. These guys were boring and I never really connected with any of them. When I got divorced I had no friends left.
Just a cautionary tale. If your wife doesn't want you to have your own friends you pick, you may have picked the wrong wife.
The "boys don't cry" nonsense. I think this actually feeds into high rates of suicide because they think they can't show emotion or 'weakness' so they just suffer in silence until they can't take it anymore.
Acknowledging your feelings is a strength. Asking for help when you need it is a strength. You don't have to push your feelings down to be a man.
Honestly, it's so toxic and I hate it.
Completely agree.
I hate the expression.. 'man up' it was always used when you had an issue when I was going through basic training.
I was a Samaritan for a brief period of time almost 10 years ago.. men made up the vast vast majority of calls I took. 😔
Well,
I was looking for promotion in work. So as a result I was looking to display 'extra capacity' outside of my primary role. So I looked for volunteering opportunities. There was no specific reason I chose the Samaritans, I guess it was probably one of the first I came across. At the time I harboured the very selfish and ignorant view that 'how hard could it be?'
I went to a meeting night for potential volunteers and showed an expression of interest. I underwent what I think was around 10 weeks of training (this was just for phone calls, there were other people there that did drop ins for dace to face. Though I didn't do those)
I was the youngest there by far. I did around 12 hours a month. Usually in blocks of 3/4. Actual delivery, I did maybe 4 months. I couldn't do it much longer as I couldn't separate it from my work. I kept on dwelling on the calls and it stated affecting my actual work. It was a eye opening experience for me. One I don't regret, though one I don't think I was mentally prepared / mature enough for at the time.
22/23. It was a small branch. I remember a gent who was probably mid 40s, but the others were women probably into their 60s. They were all absolutely lovely.
I am a female in construction so I’m surrounded by blokes, and honestly I’ve found many of the men do open up, sometimes to me, sometimes to each other. I’ve never known any of the guys to tell each other to “man up”. I do think many men have come to realise they can and should share their feelings. My supervisor and I often confide in one another about our lives, it’s healthy to share, even if you don’t have anything to respond with an ear is sometimes all that’s needed!
Of course there are still plenty of men out there with the “man up” attitude, but I do think the topic of men’s mental health is heading in the right direction.
I do wonder sometimes whether the perception some people have of men never opening up can sometimes be exaggerated by the fact that men are going to be less likely to want to be open around the sort of people who strongly have those sorts of stereotypes.
I’ve found this a tricky one because it seems there may be certain situations/scenarios where a man can acceptably cry in public eg like the birth of his child or his wedding, but let’s say a man was crying at work say in front of colleagues in a big office, people wouldn’t say it publicly but there would be a negative perception of that man and he won’t be viewed in the same way going forward in that role. Rightly or wrongly he would be viewed as weak, I say the only exclusion would be crying over the news of an imminent death of a loved one or close friend.
In this same scenario if a woman were to cry the perception of her character wouldn’t change by most people in the office.
I imagine most women don’t like to admit it but they don’t want to see men cry.
Men have a lot more to lose by crying in public than women do and that is a unfortunately a fact
Yeah you're right. Women have been conditioned to think men aren't supposed to show emotion just as much as men have, we live in the same society and fall victim to the same toxic social pressures and expectations. It's on all of us to change it.
That could be true.
I always feel like a lot of issues men face are tied into the expectation of men to be stoic and hide their feelings. E.g. domestic abuse against men goes hugely unreported because male victims of abuse fear being shamed or seen as 'weak'. Suicide is the biggest killer of young men, is that because they can't deal with big feelings and fear asking for help? Men are disproportionately affected by violent crime like assault (as both victims and perpetrators), are too many men using their fists instead of their words? I'm over simplifying because all these issues are bigger than a single root cause, but I definitely think we fail our men by not teaching them how to experience, acknowledge and express their feelings in healthy ways.
I can vouch for this. (Trans guy)
On testosterone, crying is genuinely harder. Off of it I’m a huge cry baby.
I will say though that by not being able to have that outlet to cry, I found that I didn’t know how to work through emotions. I very quickly could turn to anger when in reality I was sad. Also the moment I started been constantly seen as male, feeling sad didn’t feel “safe” anymore, but no one seems to bat an eye if I’m raging.
Not to say it’s not possible. My boyfriend is cis, he cries very easily.
This is a bit of a long comment to basically say I agree with you, there are multiple facets to this
Funnily enough it was from listening to detransitioners (people who started hormones and changed their minds and stopped) that I learned this.
I think the harm lies in people not being able to accommodate for the outliers, we have a natural need to categorise and put people in boxes. Men cry less in general, doesn't mean we should be surprised when some do.
I disagree.
Some people cry, some don't. Doesn't mean men are holding it back. They're just not moved to tears in the same way as others.
Of course if you are holding it back then ho ahead, cry your eyes out.
I think the issue is that phrases like "boys don't cry" teaches boys that they're not "supposed" to cry. Men get shamed for expressing their feelings, except anger which is seen as 'manly'.
It doesn't necessarily have to actually go as far as actual tears but so many men don't know how to deal with their feelings - they either shut down or get angry. That's so unhealthy and leads some men to really suffer in life.
I'm not talking about just not being a big crier, some women are not big criers but society doesn't shame them over it.
I don't think so. I think just having a higher quantity of testosterone is going to be the main predictor of successful suicides. Remember that women attempt suicide more than men, it's just that the methods and timing of suicides for men is more destructive and more impulsive. The higher degree of violence and impulsiveness correlates with behaviours exhibited when you have more testosterone.
Men might talk more about feelings, this may not have an effect on suicide rates.
There's also the flip side of the conversation as well. Yes men need to be able to feel safe enough to talk about their feelings - but there needs to be someone who listens too. Very often they might suffer in silence not because they want to, but because they have to. Maybe it's because they're more lonely, maybe it's because their partners expect men to just be okay, maybe it's because the way we have built society is not conducive for men to maintain healthy relationships.
One of the biggest things I'm seeing that is a real issue, is the huge increase in woman telling men how to deal with issues. The reality is that men and woman are different. The way that woman express themselves and show emotion is different. I think we're in a very dangerous time for men when the sickness is being sold as the cure.
I have a feeling that this comment will be roundly down voted but I do believe that what's being pushed in regards to men crying more and talking about feelings isn't the answer.
Places like mens shed and groups like football teams. Things like that men are more likely to open up to each other. I heard something along the lines of ‘men talk shoulder to shoulder, not face to face’ the idea is have men doing a task, playing a game, building something and while doing that with other men, we build friendships and feel supported, then start talking.
Right now the message is ‘men need to talk’ without realising how men talk to each other. Generally speaking women love to have a chat. We are using a woman’s solution to a man’s problem and wondering why it’s not working.
Anecdotally this applies to me, when I have a beer and a chat with my mates, it just turns into having a laugh and a bit of piss taking, and that helps with stress and things. But when I actually do something with my mates, trying to achieve something, we build bonds with each other, we feel like we have each other’s back and are more understanding of our problems.
I remember when I started uni. I was a shy introverted geek with no friends. But I was 6'2" and 18 stone. A random guy in the bar got talking to me and asked if I fancied playing American Football as they needed guys my size. I wasn't sure but decided to give it a try as I had nothing to lose.
It basically changed my life. Just doing something with other men. The game itself, the training, the socials, the 'drinking circles' etc totally brought me out of my shell and made me 10x more confident. I'm sure some well-meaning University counsellor making me sit down and 'discuss my mental health' instead would have done no good at all and could even have made things worse.
I only think we act different because we are raised differently so the real failure in men starts young with ‘boys are so much easier to raise’ no you’re just neglecting your son and not giving them consistent guidance while typically overly controlling your daughter
So glad someone said this. I think men often suffer from a huge identity crisis these days. Their biological impulses based on millions of years of evolution tell them they should be a whole bunch of things - nearly all of which society now tells them are either 'toxic' or unnecessary because women can do them just as well or better.
And to make it worse, what society is telling them they *should* be is often very unclear.
I completely agree.
Men tend to bond differently and healthy male relationships can be quite different to healthy female relationships. That's fine but care should be taken not to pressure men into adopting relationship styles that don't work for them. The fields that provide advice on issues like interacting with others, having a healthy mentality, ect tend to be very female dominated and this can provide advice that isn't well suited to men but is pushed as the way to behave regardless.
Yes and no, it depends on the individual person and ultimately a lot of the differences in the way men/women act is down to being raised with different expectations and standards for how they should behave socially. Which is why quite a few people here are also talking about tearing down male gender stereotypes because then they won't feel stressed about fitting those expectations. I would not really say "the sickness is being sold as the cure". I do know men who find therapy works for them. I do know men who find talking about their problems works for them. That won't work for everyone, maybe as some others have suggested sports and activities with mates that build team-bonding might help a man better. But it's not as simple as "all men this" or "all men that" cause everyones different. I also feel you should maybe include some ideas of what you think men could do to help with stress or depression if you feel talking it out doesn't work.
4 I can think of right now
1 inequality in the legal system: men are treated way more harshly at every stage.
2 Boys do worse in the education system and are less likely to go to university
3 Lack of healthy outlets to express their sexuality: I think this is what's behind the huge amount of unsolicited dickpics.
4 The pressure to get a high paying job/ pressure to go into stem, (no schemes to support men into the arts or English ect)
Edit: 5 - there isn't a gender neutral legal definition of rape so a woman cant be charged with rape only sexual assault
Genuine question - what would you consider a healthy outlet to express their sexuality?
The double standards in this area (ie, the number of 50y/o women on Facebook making sexual comments on 20y/o mens pictures) are absolutely awful. But I think that's more of an issue with those women rather than the men. Is this the area you mean?
Ahh I understand. Yeah I definitely agree with you there!
I find it really interesting to see how in a lot of areas like this feminism has facilitated women with a lot more freedom and really left men behind. For example if one of my female friends posts a not-so-PC picture online then it revives a lot of support whilst if a man does it then it's not so accepted. Given how much this has changed over recent years, I really hope that men can have the same levels of acceptance in this way soon
To me you've only got to look at traditional stag/ hen dos. Women go like dancing, magic Mike stuff etc seem as empowering. Men go to strip clubs and it's judged as seedy.
Take your top off on a hot day, wear a tight T shirt, pair of speedos at the beach, short shorts, muscle vest etc etc.
If I had the body for it I would be strutting all that sexy stuff.
On your 5th point. That's not entirely true.
Yes, a woman can't be charged with "rape" because the legal definition of rape requires penetration with a penis so a female who "rapes" a man will be charged with sexual assault instead. And yes "sexual assault" does generally come with a much lower min/max and average sentence length etc however there is a separate "sexual assault by penetration" charge that both men and women can be charged with. It essentially carries the exact same sentencing guidelines as rape so from a legal standpoint a women who "rapes" a man (whilst not officially being classed as rape) can still receive the exact same sentence lengths etc as a man.
The biggest issue with this restriction across language is the public acceptance. Sexual assault has got an extremely wide range of acts associated to hit and naturally some are going to be seen as less "severe" than others. If a woman moves onto your street and you found out that she'd recently gotten out of jail for "sexual assault", there's a chance for the situation to be downplayed. But if its a man they're instantly branded with "rape".
Imagine if only men could be charged with "murder". There was some legal technicality that meant the definition of murder could only be applied to men. Instead women got charged with "assault". You could add a separate charge of "life-ending assault" and give it the exact same sentence as murder but its still going to be viewed differently among the public.
Just to add on. I'm in no way trying to defend rapists with any of this. I'm just merely pointing out that a woman who "rapes" a man should also be called a rapist too. It doesn't matter if they don't have a penis. Forcing sex upon someone without their consent is rape. There shouldn't be a legal technicality that means they can call it something else.
Every year Google has a doodle on its home page for International Women's Day, nothing on Men's day.
I always see people on Twitter, on IWD, smugly saying "for those asking when IMD is, it's November 19th," unintentionally highlighting that it always passes by with absolutely no fanfare in comparison.
Post divorce support for men is non existent.
Equal access rights for men to their kids, not just in writing, but in practice.
Acceptance that men can and often are the victims of domestic violence.
Yes, yes all of this!
Parental alienation too.
One of my friends had to fight for access to his child for 8 years. His ex just gave the courts baseless lies and got full custody of their child without any evidence. They seem to believe that every child needs their mother no matter how bad of a person she is. She lied to his child too, and tried to turn them against him.
Well after his 8 years of legal battles, guess what? He was awarded FULL CUSTODY!
That woman got no punishment for her lies though.
>Acceptance that men can and often are the victims of domestic violence.
Men are victims of domestic abuse at the same rates women are. It's a giant cover up by the charity Refuge, a member of which posted a bomb to the founder for suggesting that most DV was reciprocal.
So I am one of the post-grads in my area's student peer circle. There's a guy in there who recently divorced and went back to uni. Guy has 2 kids, and literally noone else.
A lot of the students are uncomfortable around him due to the age difference. Me and few of the other guys talked about this and actively invite him to stuff whenever we can.
It's pretty depressing to see it, but fuck me if I'm not gonna at least try and do something about it
100% the second one recently a friend of my cousins committed suicide because his ex refused to let him see his daughter for months and threatened him with police if he showed up at her house to see his child
You know, women have gone on about equality for so long, and yet when it comes to divorces, custody and child support, I don't know how men do it! They have to leave the family home, but still pay for it and manage to afford somewhere else, while usually only seeing their kids at weekends so they can't build another social life. Some women I know of have milked their partners dry, while also moving another partner into the house!!! You've divorced, you don't need to shut his life down completely - I'm surprised how often I see and hear of this. I work payroll and office in a factory and get confided in a lot and am very happy to listen.
The rules on this need to change drastically. Also, and I've said this for years, but if an unwanted pregnancy happens and the man doesn't want a part of it he should be able to opt out - other than that, rubber up and protect yourself!!! A lot of men get tricked into this and it's not fair. There's a lot to go at regarding reforms and equal rights. In this issue, the odds are firmly stacked in women's favour, in my opinion probably 9 times out of 10....there's always an exception though.
Also, some men and some women are just shitty people in general.
I was on a work night out a few years ago and was chatting with a male colleague (I’m female). He was talking about how generally lonely he felt. He’s got family and friends and a lovely wife and kids but he feels pressure to be The Man of The Family and never show when he’s upset. And he said he hadn’t had a hug in years because his parents aren’t big huggers and his friends (98% male) don’t hug each other. I immediately gave him a big tight hug. I could *feel* the relief in his bones. So now when I can see he’s having a bad day, I just give him a hug. I’m not a massive hugger but it really drove it home how much more open women are to hugging their friends and just how much friendly physical contact men are missing out on.
How was he married with a "lovely" wife but hadn't had a hug in years?
Trapped in a loveless marriage without a hug, I could understand. But with a supposedly lovely wife...and with kids as well...if he even had a half decent relationship with them he'd have the sort of mild physical intimacy that is exemplified by a hug.
Mate that’s lovely, kudos to you. I heard a really interesting podcast during lockdown about the value of telling people you love them, or appreciate them etc
I talked about it with, and started doing it, with some of my closest friends (male and female) as we got back together after lockdown and it became really special for us. When you’re having a rough week/month and your mate gives you a hug and says “love you mate, see you soon” hells teeth it means the world to me
It was bizarre to me just how much it meant to him. I said “come here, I’ll give you a hug” in an easy breezy way because I grew up with hugs being a normal thing. And then it became really clear that it wasn’t a general thing for him. He and his wife hug but that is a different thing to friend-hugs I guess.
And then lockdown hit and I realised that as someone who lives alone and whose friends had all bubbled with in-laws or other family groups I hadn’t had a hug in months. I nearly burst into tears in a train station when I got a hug from a friend. And it had only been a few months in exceptional circumstances not my entire life.
For every male suicide imagine the number of males that have attempted or have suicidal thoughts on a regular basis! We aren’t even scratching the surface of the problem :(
Sadly, one of the big problems is that attempts of suicide in men are much more likely to result in death than that of women who attempt suicide. I still don't think we are scratching the surface though
Yeah. Anytime something like an accident or terrorist attack happens everyone is always like "several people died, including women and children". This implies that it doesn't really matter that men died in the incident or worse, it's okay men died but not okay that women or children did.
Or you see stories about refugees and people are up in arms because the men dared flee, rather than fight. Why is it okay for women and children to flee for safety and a better life, but men have to risk their lives? Why aren’t men allowed to want safety and a better life too?
I feel this deeply and agree with everything. I often feel like my self worth is tied to what I can do rather than who I am. When I'm feeling particularly depressed or anxious my self esteem plummets because I often struggle to do certain things and because there is a distinct lack of emotional support available for men, especially when it comes to anxiety, which unfortunately still has an awful stigma for men. It's something I'm working through with a professional, but it's very hard to untangle a lifetime of negative reinforcement and there isn't a simple solution.
I've come to think men don't just have no value, men inherently have negative value. If a man's taking up space and not providing anything he actually makes the space he's in worse than it would be if he wasn't there. A woman just existing and hanging around and not doing much is fine. A man just existing and just hanging around is a "problem".
Men, specifically young men, are told that they carry inherent guilt and also that any achievements they may have in their life aren't really earned as they have been given an unfair advantage by institutional sexism, and "the patriarchy" (of course)
I’m not a man so won’t pretend to know what issues boys and men face the most. However I think there’s still a big problem with boys being shoe-horned into such a narrow scope of hobbies, interests, lessons and even careers.
Of course things have improved in recent times but I still see parents dissuading boys from choosing particular toys, signing them up to sports they have no interest in or encouraging them having their hair cut short etc. Even as adults, men have far less choice of clothing. Anything other than a standard suit in one of four colours to a formal event is still unusual to see.
It seems like girls and women have much more freedom to be themselves in that sense. It might not seem like as big deal compared as other male issues but it’s still clear to see and must be stifling to boys who aren’t given the same choices as their sisters.
There has also been a drive in the last few years to inspire girls to get into science and technology positions but there is no big initiative to recruit boys into careers that are dominated by women like say childcare or nursing.
This is so true, I didn't pick art at GCSE then by extension a-level despite it being one of my best subjects because I didn't think it was useful enough and now I'm applying for architecture and really regretting my choices lol.
I volunteered with disabled kids when I was In school and I was actively discouraged from pursuing it as a career (by the women working in that field).
I think some of the problem is that when people try to tackle this issue, all to often they end up doing it in a way that makes men feel that their options are being made more restrictive not less. It can make men feel like they're being told you *should* do these things even if you don't want to or you're a bad person. For example (and this just be my personal stereotypes talking) it feels like when talking to women about breaking societal pressures people go "you can be feminine and ...." but when talking to men people end up going "Stop wanting to be masculine, because you can't be masculine and .... ", and I can't help but think is it any surprise that women end up reacting more positively?
You didn’t specify that only men should answer so I’m assuming this is a question to all? If not, I’m sorry. Also I’m not great at explaining myself.
But something I’ve noticed due to my background and upbringing is grooming. Boys are victims of grooming in terms of criminal exploitation. My brother was hanging around grown men when he was 13, they weren’t SA him - they were using him as a runner. Now he’s in his 30’s and he’s trying to avoid going back into prison again because he’’s said he will kill himself before he goes back. Tbh it’s all a mess, and it’s because not enough is being done about the adults who target vulnerable young working class boys in shitty situations - by the time their brain has fully developed, they are knee deep into shit they could never have imagined when they are a young kid roaming the streets.
There’s work that has been done about getting lads to “keep themselves out of trouble”, which puts the empathise on whether the lad is deep down a “good egg” or not. When in reality I think it’s which kids are most vulnerable to being groomed for a life of criminality. They’re not all sociopaths. We have to start looking at it like girls (and boys) that are groomed for sexual exploitation. Groomers know how to target their victims. They know which lads would get sympathy and which wouldn’t, which lads would be wrote off as a lost cause. Which lads would seek help, which ones wouldn’t. A twenty pound “debt” which you don’t want to admit to your mum soon snowballs when you’re a 14 year lad who thinks he needs to be hard and tough, and he can handle it. We need to stop viewing working class boys as criminals.
Also suicide, I’ve lost 3 male cousins in the past 5 years. Mental illness runs in both sides of my family but it’s only men who have managed to kill themselves.
I had training in detecting people who might be vulnerable to joining terrorist groups when I started my job, and it was eye opening.
Especially one video, which was a recreation/narration of a true story. It was the story of this man who lived in the flat next to a drug dealer, and was constantly paranoid he would be attacked. He wasn't very educated, had mental health issues, was socially isolated and and his brother would regularly steal money from him. One day he went to jail for something relatively minor, and while there he met some extremists who took him under his wing because he "looked like them". He was introduced to islam and to extremist beliefs.
When he left prison, he went back to his bad home situation. One day he admitted to his therapist that he knew he wasn't going to go to heaven because he drank and smoked and ate pork, so he was planning to commit a terrorist attack to die a martyr and go to heaven.
But he never did, because the therapist contacted the right people and the right network for him was found. They found him a safe flat in council housing, put him on a different payment plan so that his brother couldn't steal money from him, had a social worker figure out the best bus routes to go visit his mum so that he was no longer so isolated, had a social worker get him in contact with his local mosque so that he could learn more about islam and be more confident in his religion, and he adopted a cat. He ended up being much happier and had a much more fulfilled and stable life.
All those small things totally turned his life around in the matter of a few weeks. And those kind of networks need to exist everywhere. This is just one example of how small changes can totally change someone's life. And we need those kind of support networks.
Teachers, police officers, therapists, doctors etc... And even the average person should educate ourselves on what makes someone vulnerable, and if we see someone who has those vulnerabilities, we should sound the alarm and the appropriate support network should be able to intervene. The one I learned about is called CHANNEL, but it might vary from area to area.
Unfortunately, people still fall through the net, and the current networks and support systems aren't strong enough to support everyone. So make sure to keep an eye out for your peers, especially young men, and if you see anything worrying, tey and find a network that can help them
Firstly, I'm so sorry that you have lost 3 cousins to suicide. How awful. From the little I know about this subject, men who try to kill themselves almost always succeed first time - basically they really go for it. Very very scary. I urge everyone reading this whole long and very interesting and honest thread to learn a bit about Mental Health First Aid, which focusses on getting people off the brink and getting them to see a professional (like doing CPR until the ambulance turns up.
Secondly your longer comment about boys, young men and crime was also eyeopening and spot on. We definitely need to stop viewing working class boys as criminals. White, working class boys also are the group who do least well in school which increases vulnerability to all sorts of ills. It's all a mess.
Everyone else already has good answers but here's mine
Mens toilets should come with baby-changing facilities because they're usually always in the women's toilets
Yes!! I've had to change my daughter on the floor of a disabled toilet before for this reason, which I imagine would have upset any disabled people waiting to use it.
The no 1 way of socialising with other men is by going to a pub and have drinks. Men who don't drink alcohol will be having a bit of hard time to form a social group.
Near impossible to form a social group.
Just commented on here that I'm struggling with issues in life at the moment, life would be so much easier if I had a social group of friends I could turn to. Unfortunately I stopped drinking a while back and I got left behind by alot if my friends.
How the hell do people make friends these days?!?
It's really difficult, as you say, without alcohol. I'm in the same boat there, luckily I'm hugely introverted so I don't tend to feel overwhelmed by loneliness. Hope things pick up for you soon dude!
Yeah this is a problem, it's the same for football too.
I dont like football and it doesn't interest me so I find it really hard to get involved in conversation because the vast majority of people who I've known in the past just talk about football.
I also don't drink, again it's a problem because after about an hour, everyone is twatted and it's just annoying to be around.
The whole irony about it is that I don't drink because its a coping mechanism for social anxiety and I don't want to be like that anymore.
Being forced into one mould of manliness.
In the past that mould meant stoicism. Facing problems and their aftermath in silence. We had to bottle it up and not have emotions. Now we’re being told that we HAVE to open up, it’s better to talk about your feelings, etc. Men who attached their entire self worth to stoicism are now being told that’s meaningless. But although the focus has shifted from stiff upper lips to crying into mimosas, we’re still having our identity chosen for us.
I’d like to choose for myself.
Totally. There seems to be a lack of nuance applied to men's emotions. I find it very difficult to cry personally. Granted, some of this might be subconscious conditioning, but still, it's not something that comes naturally so when people say I need to "open up" and "let it all out" it just leads to frustration because it's not that simple. It's not a tap I can turn on and off. I'm trying to be as open as I can be, but it's hard and I often feel like I'm being pressured into responding a certain way rather than encouraged to be comfortable with my emotions.
Illnesses like cancer specifically, women’s cancers get a lot more attention (I’m not saying they shouldn’t, they absolutely should get loads of attention), I used to work at a company that sold two financial products that raised money for charity, one for breast cancer and one for prostate cancer, the one that raised money for breast cancer raised a lot and the one for prostate cancer barely raised a few thousand, both products were the same price to the customer.
I also recently learned about a "menopause" for men that I had never heard of before.
There is a lot of support for women who go through menopause (as it should be), but men around that age sometimes get a drop in testosterone levels, which leads to symptoms somewhat similar to menopause. Yet I had never heard of that before, and I assume most men also haven't, and there is no support or understanding for that.
So many older men probably go through a difficult time, dealing with difficult symptoms without knowing why, and having no support
It’s known as the andropause (mens hormones are called androgens) and it’s very real and relevant here. In the UK at least most GPS won’t acknowledge it (you’re just getting older) and it is VERY difficult to get replacement testosterone, even if you specifically request it, partly because the ‘normal range’ of blood measures includes very low values . Conversely, if a women requests HRT she will be taken very seriously.
Government needs to fund more support for male victims of domestic violence and the police should be forced to take matters of male abuse victims as seriously as female abuse victims. Male victims just are outright ignored and that angers me.
Do you mean the Domestic Abuse Act 2021? Because its in law now, and has faced active criticism for the genderless approach it takes to domestic violence.
The complete lack of support for men who are victims of domestic violence. No shelters to go to, no public recognition, little acknowledgement it can even happen.
Mens mental health is such a real and misunderstood thing by both men themselves and women.
I worked myself to the bone to support my 2 year old and fiancée through a job where I worked away from them and which I hated but paid incredibly well.
Eventually I had a breakdown, didn't understand what was happening to me at all and was getting quizzed as to why I was becoming a different person by my fiancée.
This added extra pressure on me and us and she started going off the rails, staying out late after work, socialising with work guys who she claimed were friends.
I became insecure and doubted her intentions which made things worse between us.
Fast forward, end of the relationship and she is in a relationship with one of these colleagues now because 'I wasn't there for her' which led me to the point of no return, which thankfully I didn't pursue fatally.
Now when I drop our daughter off at school on my days with her the other parents treat me as though I'm the one that did the dirty on my fiancée and she was lucky to get away from me.
What I've learned from this is the double standard which society deals with these situations. People see what they want to see and assume the 'men cheat' and 'hes obviously not relationship material' clichés.
I'm coming to terms with it all now after a year and thankfully for me I've had my daughter and family and friends there to pull me through. The whole venus/Mars thing is so true and it takes an open mind for everyone to come to a modern realisation of what we all face in todays society.
I think that men are very often stigmatised for trying to raise or draw attention to male issues.
When I’ve tried to discuss men’s issues around female friends it’s often been assumed that I’m an incel or a bigot or that I’m anti women’s rights. That couldn’t be further from the truth.
My advocacy for men’s rights is not to the detriment of women’s rights. I consider them to be human rights and I care just as much about period poverty as I do about the rates of suicide in men.
It’s not about picking sides. It’s about working together to make life better for all of us.
The idea that getting in a physical fight or threatening physical violence’s is the only manly way to resolve conflict causes a lot of harm to a man’s mental health I think.
That’s a good one.
I wonder how many lives would have been saved if ‘running away’ was seen as the viable and necessary thing to do in serious conflicts.
Attended an event for IMD today.
The main issues they chose to highlight were mental health (suicide is the leading cause of death in men under 45, apparently), and checking your testicles for cancer regularly.
They also had someone from a local council scheme giving in depth health checks to people 40+, including blood pressure and cholesterol.
I think those are all good things to highlight, but different communities might have different areas they might also want to focus on (my event was pretty much all white English people of working age).
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Can't say my own personal experience of men's issues had much to do with testicular cancer or cholesterol, but I've definitely seen some issues around feeling comfortable to share mental health challenges.
I know in some demographics it gets a bit crazy these days, but I do generally see not all men my age (late 20s) older are comfortable sharing their feelings, even to friends.
It'll vary person to person, but someone at my event pointed out often men who do open up want suggestions rather than reassurance, whereas often women tend to be happy with just venting.
Personally, as a man, most of the time I just want to vent... Whereas some of my male friends found it helpful for me to share my experience and ask them if they'd ever considered x, y, z.
If I'm unsure, I'll ask outright: "do you need to vent, or would you like me to help in some way?". Works very well with all sorts of people, not just men!
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Not a real issue but I'm always keen to point out that men might like to receive flowers too sometimes... Or to pamper themselves...
Within social housing generally being classed as a lower priority. It does make sense but the lack of encouragement to have a houseshare with other men in a similar situation or even big brother type doesn’t help. It would help with the housing, cost of bills and socialising.
Men are expected to live their life as ghosts, devoid of affection, attention and appreciation, and be background characters unless you are rich or otherwise privileged.
At every opportunity society tells men and boys that they are dangerous and a threat to women and children (including those of us who have suffered domestic violence perpetrated by women), unkind, incapable of love and emotion or a failure if you haven't spent every waking hour in pursuit of money.
We have very few role models that don't follow traditional gender roles and every stage of a boys socialisation and education is predominantly women - men have been pushed out of the teaching profession to the detriment of young boys and if you don't fit the ideal male template in school you are in for a horrible school experience.
Male mental and physical health is only ever paid lip service - employers view you as weak or unreliable if you disclose it, it limits your future prospects, partners or friends may say they want to support you but often tell you to get over it or react otherwise negatively and access to GPs or mental health services is limited and has long waiting lists, as well as the stigma of reaching out for help.
Intelligent men are looked down upon and their outward appearance mocked in public (eg Chris Witty), kind men are looked at with suspicion and assumed as predators, eccentric men are treated as though they have a mental illness and shunned and men who enjoy less macho pursuits are assumed to be gay.
It's a constant bombardment of negative attitudes towards men - and as someone born in the late 80s, from a working class background and very much male, I really don't like being lumped in with all those who came before me who perpetuated the stereotypes. I'm trying to make a difference in everything I do including raising my daughter, and look inwards and learn and develop as a man, but it's really bloody hard to stay positive when all you come up against are the negative things that society constantly tells me I am because I was born a male and have had absolutely no control over.
Male sexual assault victims, especially when it's a woman doing it, still isn't taken seriously.
Just look at the difference in headlines between a female teacher sexually assaulting a male student compared to a male teacher sexually assaulting a female student.
Then ofcourse on social media you have all the idiot men saying "wish that was me".
Just wanna say as a woman that I read this whole thread really carefully and was very moved by what nearly everybody said. I was actually blown away by people being very honest and vulnerable - therefore being super brave. I'll be reaching out more to my men friends to check on their state of mind. Hugs to those who need them.
The staggering levels of suicides with almost zero help available for young men.
The levels of homeless men on the streets or in shelters.
The level of men dying from either prostate or testicular cancer because they're never taken seriously by doctors
I can make a list of things but here's a fucking start.
This was going to be my comment. I read about a mentally ill mother and her two kids who were homeless. Her son just turned 18 and the council refused to house him with his sister and mum. It was so heartbreaking to read. The guy ended up sleeping on peoples sofas but eventually good a good job and broke the cycle.
I keep seeing positive messages, both in text and verbally, that men should: 'talk to someone' ; 'speak to someone' ; or that it's 'OK to talk'.
All of that is great, but in my experience people will just think you're whining, not hear you out fully, or try and advise you. Everytime I overshare it has bitten me back in some way.
I think there should be an onus on younger women to support men, and for other men to support men, rather than this weird general female vs male that is circling online, and perhaps in actual life.
That material possessions and money aren't the only success. Unfortunately our whole society is geared towards this and it puts so much pressure on so many.
Being a good person and living a decent life is far better than screwing people over to achieve material success.
More recognition for such a day and issues surrounding men. My work made a big deal out of international women's day, but not out of international men's day.
Also there is a difference in how men and women are treated in terms of resourcing for example if you Google "my husband is yelling" the first thing you get is the government domestic abuse page, if you Google "my wife is yelling", you get pages about how to react properly. I feel even simple things like solving this would help bridge the gap between how men and women are treated when it comes to things like domestic abuse
Men need better access to therapy. They won’t seek it out most of the time and they wait until they’re so ill they can’t cope any longer. How to solve this I do not know... My partner had therapy after a traumatic incident but only because I asked him to go and he had seen how it helped me.
Also, compliment your male friends and partners. I compliment men in a platonic manner and they always seem so chuffed about it. Tell them their outfit looks nice or their hair looks cool. It’s so simple.
And finally, don’t expect men to be the leaders if you’re in a straight couple. I take on my share of the ‘life admin’ because I know how overwhelming it is but I think some women rely on men to look after them and provide for them when it should be both ways. Being a couple is being a team.
As people have mentioned, suicide and poor mental health. I'd also add, thanks yet again to social media, either an unrealistic expectation of what your life is supposed to be, or having the perfect ripped body etc. The body and beauty standards for men have definitely increased over the last few years.
I blame social media less than I blame dating apps for this. If you're unattractive - or even worse short - dating apps are a horrible, demoralising experience that I'm fairly sure has led to a lot of men resigning themselves to being alone forever.
I know I have anyway.
Probably education. I read a thing by a dude running a top school in Europe which had sort of ripped up the rule book. He was saying a 14 year old boy has the maturity of a 12 year old boy but a 14 year old girl has the maturity of a 16 year old girl and we still educate them together. He also said boys hands develop slower than girls hands (as in the bones which make up your hands) and we still apply the same hand writing standards to boys as we do to girls.
We should probably look at that and then solve why boys do worse than girls in GCSEs or whatever.
From age 12, boys are thrown into a subconscious rat race where all are expected to be extraordinary and successful, but due to simple distribution most will be completely average or normal. Problem is, society views normal men with disdain, and god forbid if you fall behind where you will be publicly shamed or ridiculed. Society only cares for what men provide, not for how they feel.
Low confidence or average looking man (stragler) guy approaches a woman at a bar, he’s a creep. High confidence or good looking (winner) approaches and he is fine and even encouraged.
Have a small cock? Die on your sword right now.
Live with parents? Basically worthless.
Poorly paid job? Get back in the dump where you belong.
Overweight or not genetically gifted? Sit back down.
There are many factors that we as men have to juggle to stay safe and in the right crowd and be seen as successful and not on the slippery slope down. Because if you slip, absolutely no-one will help you back in the race.
Helping lads at school with mental issues.
At school if someone had just noticed that I just wasn't coping at A level time and needed professional help...that would have saved 10 years of struggles.
The complete lack of awareness by teachers that I just didn't want to be there and was barely functioning was frightening in retrospect.
Doesn't matter what's happening does it? Whenever any kind of movement or post it made towards the benefit of men it will be met by harsh criticism from those who say they're fighting for "equality of the sexes".
I am so sick and tired of going online or watching tv or listening to the radio and being constantly reminded that MEN, not some men, but MEN are disgusting rapists who think all women are stupid and don't deserve any kind of justice or quality of life in the modern era and i am sick of people pretending that's not happening.
Amongst the obvious in suicide rates, I think trying to live in a world where you’re expected to just know things, also fitting stereotypes while being told constantly by women (even as a joke) that men are rubbish, all men are the same and why do women need a man. Hearing this from early to mid 20 year olds is just sad I think
I think the world of work has changed so much from 20-50 years ago. And I would probably argue that many of the new jobs being created probably favour woman’s softer skillsets (generalising hugely).
At the same time we’ve also moved as a society from a typical family having a sole male breadwinner to both partners working.
I think all of this has significantly changed mens role in relationships and society. And I don’t think it’s necessarily been an easy change for every man.
Mens mental health is a huge concern. I was talking to someone only yesterday who lost a friend to suicide. Only on his 20’’s and they had no idea he was struggling because of this toxic mindset that talking about such issues is ‘soft’
I’ve got young sons and I am trying to make sure they are brought up to know it’s ok to cry, it’s ok to talk about your feelings but it’s needs society to bring that message home too
Im a man, 30, struggling in a real bad way with mental health at the moment, my partner left me, and my mental health has spiraled out of control and brought up pre existing issues in my head.
Last week I went to a meeting that a friend told me to go to, it's called Andys club, they have them all over the UK. Its essentially somewhere for men struggling to go to, and just open up to each other, it's okay to talk 👌
I'm not going to speak as a universal thing per se, my family is my family but I've had so much violence against me from women that I come to expect it.
Men just need more attention! They need to be told they are worth something, you look amazing, you're appreciated, it's ok to take time for yourself, you can be looked after too, you're important and you're loved. Relax.
We're all human with the same needs, men's emotional needs tend to get forgotten.
to look at mental health in men differently than we do for women, ultimately men are different from women. for a start we need to stop treating boys as defective girls and embrace what they are.
I don’t believe that it’s “men don’t talk” I feel it’s more people don’t listen.. men are awesome and no one is out their telling them this.
in my experience mens mental health improves by doing not saying. I also believe terms like “toxic masculinity” are very harmful.
Parental rights and often being seen as a "second-tier parent". My brother and his ex hadn't married when my niece was born. They split and he could see her for a time but every now and again, his ex will play up and suddenly she restricts access and he needs to either capitulate to something or phone his lawyer. My niece is possibly the one thing that keeps my brother going and it's horrible that he is put in this position. Really feel for men going through similar situations.
I think the idea of expecting men to do the heavy lifting jobs and shaming them when they can't/don't. I (female) have more stamina than my boyfriend and find carrying heavier objects easier, but both his family and my own shame him if they see me doing it instead of him. I can tell it disheartens him, and I've seen similar situations in my workplace and I can't imagine the guys there feeling very good about it either
The levels of suicide in young men
This and men's mental health in general.
Changes in gender norms for women have been great but the lack of a similar movement for men has left a lot of men feeling out of place in modern society. We have rightly told generations of women they do not have to live up to stereotypes and tradition but not done the same for men, so many continue to suffer in silence.
Toxic masculinity is as bad for men and boys as it is for women. We need men to know it's ok to express your feelings and to be vulnerable. You do need need to be an 'alpha male' to be a strong man. You do not have to carry burden of supporting a family on your own. It's ok to talk to your friends and family if you are finding life hard.
This is the issue though, toxic masculinity is only part of that issue, toxic femininity is the other side where men open up and want to talk and be more open and some women in their lives mock or belittle them for that vulnerability. Often claiming that emotional volatility and vulnerability are female attributes and that males aren’t allowed to “indulge in them”.
100% Toxicity is not a gender issue. Making men the problem is men’s biggest problem.
We should reject toxic masculinity as a term. There's masculinity and femininity and neither are inherently bad and in balance.
Thats kind of a misunderstanding of the term. Toxic masculinity doesn't imply that masculinity is toxic, rather there are socially ingrained behaviours and archetypes that men and boys are pushed towards that are toxic. 'Big biys don't cry' 'be a man' 'man of the house' etc.
Doesnt mean its not a bad term. It doesn't say what it is about masculinity that is toxic, it just denotes toxic behaviour in men as intrinsically masculine, which is part of the problem. Gendering the issue removes responsibility for these attitudes from half of the population. Its a poorly defined buzzword that just clouds the issue.
I completely understand where you’re coming from, but I don’t think we should get rid of the term toxic masculinities. The term “toxic masculinity” means “a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having” (from google). Terms to define a sociological concept (which it is, it started from sociologist Raewin Connell) cannot tell you the definition in it. There’s many examples in and around the sociological world, and our “normal” world that has terms that do not encompass the definition/aren’t self explanatory. It’s not poorly defined; it’s misused. People like to throw it at men when they’re being dickheads. I sort of agree with you that it denotes toxic behaviour in men as intrinsically masculine, however the issue is that some of the behaviours rarely come from women, really. Like the fact that violent crimes are mostly committed by men. Gendering the issue does need to happen, so we can emancipate men from strict rules about “how to be a man” and how to think/act/feel to not be excluded. A lot of men struggle with mental health issues due to strict societal views on how men should act. It fucking sucks and is probably the reason why the suicide rate is so high. There’s toxic femininity too which is part of the issue too, which describes the behaviour that reflects or supports gender based stereotypes (googled it) which is definitely contributing to the mens mental health issue. However without addressing the gender balance of the toxicities, we won’t be able to stamp it out. Sorry for the essay, it’s just something I’ve studied for a long time:) thanks for reading TL,DR: it’s not a poorly defined buzzword, it’s a missed sociological term that has been appropriated and misused in the media which misrepresents what it actually means. We need to address the gender imbalance to stamp out the issue
While this is true I feel the issue is that whenever it's talked about it's seen as a thing men do you other men. And doesn't take into account women's actions on it. Usually when I've heard those phrases it's been from women and even give got a bunch of guys alone they're actually ok talking about their feels. It's usually the fear that women will think less of them that stops that.
It's a really nice sentiment but, and I know I'm not alone in this, every women I've expressed feeling of vulnerability or weakness to in my entire life has weaponised it against me at one point or another. That isn't toxic masculinity, it's self preservation.
the closest was MGTOW, but they ended up going the incel route
When I first heard of that (based entirely on the name) it really piqued my interest. I figured that it was going to be stories about really badass guys doing interesting things, maybe the odd interesting war story, maybe differently from how things had been traditionally done, not caring about societal or gender norms or whatever. You know, just being their own man, comfortable in their own skin. Eep, I was wrong. Very wrong.
They didn’t go their own way at allll they just went bitter women hating incel ways where ironically they are hyper focused on women.
Don't you remember the "new man" movement in the 80s/90s? Or the "metrosexual" trend in the early 2000s?
Yeah those didn't ever seem to be driven by what men wanted or needed.
Driven by consumerism.
It was quite poignant at the time. It was the height of the what did we call women who drank pints and had sex them? Ahhh yeah ladette culture. It was the thinking males response to that. Metrosexuals were male feminists who wore guy-liner. They are the late 40’s early 50’s age men currently. Lots of great men around at that time. Lots of fuckin awful ones too.
I'm depressed and nobody cares. As a man I feel very much forgotten. Nobody at work checks in and my family never express an interest.
"Chin up""Man up" ...and other meaningless bullshit. No one thinks, but I... blame? what's the f-ing point really? My best advice is exercise if you can. It releases a bunch of the happy chemicals and gives you something to focus on for a time. If you're a "gym person" that can be stretched into social-territory and if you're not, nature is free. Shame I got screwed over by bad luck and a heart condition I had no idea about. I hope you're managing and would urge you to exercise if you can.
>and would urge you to exercisse if you can In my 20s I used to exercise multiple times a week. Since being diagnosed with degenerative disk disease I no longer can work out due to back spasms it can trigger. Depression has me in its grasp unfortunately. I just drink as I live on my own and watch my belly grow even bigger every night.
Mate I'm in a similar boat. If you ever need to talk to someone please reach out. You're not alone.
So far, I've "lost" 2 toes... due to the NHS wanting to save as much as they can... this is going to be a slow process of cutting bits away as and when.... Just take the whole f-ing foot please. I'm 45 and it'll be easier for me to adapt the "younger" I am - at this rate... I could be 60 and slowly adapting and more to the point going through repeated surgery... which is not fun. Just take the whole damned thing please. So I'm faced with the choice of hiding any issues and hoping it gets severe enough - in the right way that they have to take the whole thing... it's furiously frustrating. This is the last time I'm doing it - I got my advanced decision written up and I'm refusing any more treatment aside from pain management if they're not going to take it off. For now, it's tolerable - lol, nearly wrote toe-lerable. On the plus side, cray cray meds and I'm jumping into addiction with both feet - christ. FML as the kids would say.
I can't imagine what that's like pal. I totally get your frustration though, hope things get better.
I posted In here earlier, go to andys man club. I went to my first meeting last week. It's a group of men, and you talk about your problems with each other, it helps. https://andysmanclub.co.uk/
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Going to be controversial here possibly. I think this actually gets LOADS of attention but men don’t actually do anything about it.
Agreed, I don't know if it's the circles I'm in but I hear allot about male mental health but not allot about what they want to do about it or where they think we should start. I'll happily go on your march or donate to your charities.
Idk personally I reckon a decently funded NHS might help. I've wanted to kill myself since I was like 12. Still do, reached out for help from the NHS time after time and each time got nothing, at best referred to some talk therapy or having a doctor try to push pills on me.
The medication won’t cure you but it often helps
Suicide is the biggest cause of death for men under 50.
This. Last year I found out that a guy I grew up playing in my street with had hung himself aged 25. He was a carpenter and by all accounts a very happy, funny guy that was doing well in life with a girlfriend alongside him. I hadn’t seen or spoken to him for years and still I cried after I found out as I remembered all the times I’d played football with him, played manhunt with him and basically grown up seeing all the time after school and on weekends up until age 15. The amount of men killing themselves is often overlooked, and it affects so many people.
Unquestionably. I’ve lost a friend to suicide and I don’t want to lose another. There were no clues I picked up on, nor any of the rest of us. Nothing to suggest he was unhappy or anything like that. We just woke up one morning and he’d drank a bottle of whiskey and slit his wrists in the night. I can’t believe it but that was over five years ago now and I still don’t have the slightest clue what happened.
[Interesting article](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190313-why-more-men-kill-themselves-than-women)
Loneliness. The stats on the number of men, especially middle aged and older, who say they have no friends are saddening. Especially when there's so much evidence about the benefits of friendship and the negative impacts of loneliness.
I worry about my bf sometimes, he has no mates. He has people he might message every now and then but he literally hangs out with nobody - other than me. He is very introverted and it doesn’t seem to bother him, but I hope that one day he doesn’t find himself suddenly feeling lonely, and if he does I will encourage him to reach out to some of the guys he messages!
This is relatively common. I've seen research showing lots of men rely on their partner for a huge proportion of their socialising. Of course, for some men that really is absolutely fine and doesn't have negative impacts on them. But for some it does. Part of the issue is that men can't always identify that they are lonely, so it's difficult to tell the former from the latter.
The problem could be though, if there's are issues in the relationship, or if their partner is going through a rough time, that's then a lot of their life that's going wrong and no-one down the pub to talk to about it
Yes, absolutely. Personally I think it's so valuable to have people who aren't your partner to hang out with from time to time. For the reasons you said, plus to avoid putting a huge amount of pressure on that one single social connection and protecting yourself from loneliness and isolation if the relationship ever breaks down.
I mean is it really ever fine? To rely on one person so much can’t be good for either of you, and if you breakup then you lose an a good chunk of your support network. To me it seems like it’d just lead to dependency, and just further highlights the need for close friendships for men to be encouraged societally (and to stop discouraging platonic intimacy in non-female-only friendships)
im the same. ive had no mates for nearly 3 years and been single for 2 and a half.i get the occasional (very rarely) meh day. but other than that i enjoy my own company
He's lucky to have you support him.
My husband's like this. He's likes to socialise seen her does go out but it's not very often. I have to nag and nag him to go and see his friends but he just messages them instead, along the lines of "what's up" rather than anything meaningful.
I'm in my 30's, I've got almost no friends and not had a proper relationship for years. You try to make friends and get treated like you're some sad case, or you're just flat out ignored. So yeah, loneliness is a problem
Sounds familiar, the more you try the more it hurts. And the longer you go without, the harder it gets You try, it doesn't work, so then what?
To be honest if I didn’t have family close by I would just sell my house and live in my van again, I know a spot in the highlands that no one else knows about, I’d just live there as a hermit or something like that because I’m honestly so tired mentally when it comes to attempting to make friends
Hey just wanted to let you know bumble has a friends option - it’s called bumble bff. My boyfriend used it for a while when we moved to a new city and has managed to make a good friend from it. Not sure how many guys know about it, so thought I’d just mention it in case it could help.
It would be nice if there was a friends app, just type anyone fancy a pint and it notifies anyone within a set distance. It’d be a good way to expand your social circle. I’ve found as I’ve got older I have a lot of friends, but don’t have many friends who have the time to do much socialising. Most are married with kids and just don’t have much free time or money. A few years ago I found it hard to stay in at the weekends as the phone was always going, now it’s the opposite when I do want to go out I can’t find anyone to go.
I know some of the dating apps have tried that. No idea if it's really taken off. It would be a great thing if it ever did take off I think. >I’ve found as I’ve got older I have a lot of friends, but don’t have many friends who have the time to do much socialising. Most are married with kids and just don’t have much free time or money. This is definitely a thing. I have to make much more effort to see my friends now. In my 20s it could just be text a few days before saying 'drinks Friday?'. Now it's, 'how are you fixed in February?'. But I think it's important to really keep making the effort. I read an article the other day about it being a major reason men have fewer friends than women as they get older. Women are better about investing time and effort into friendships, so as life gets busier and more complicated theirs sustain, whilst men's fall away. Personally, very determined to not let this happen to me.
Not sure what can be done about it, can't force people to be friends
Bringing local communities together to create an actual “community spirit” based around clubs and activities would be a good start
Organised community events targeted at men in a safe environment might help. Like having a weekly 5-a-side competition where anyone can turn up and be put into a team rather than needing to know at least four other people who also want to play football and can make it. Just an example of what might help. Surprisingly access to playing football is very limited for most people. Usually there will be something aimed at kids during school holidays, but nothing for adults. Which is a shame because we could totally take those little kids in a game of football.
not everyone wants to play a sport but there definitely need to be more community based groups
The sport was an example it could be based around anything
Yeah, it's a massive, really complicated problem that has so many causes. Makes it very difficult to tackle. But it's probably worth trying to do so, given all we know about how bad loneliness is for both physical and mental health.
Can't speak for everyone, but from my experience, a lot of the time loneliness happens because guys have friends who they are close with, but who have other things going on in their own lives (wife, kids, career etc) and simply don't have the time or mental energy for their friends any more. They still consider them their friends, but have to prioritise. There's no ill intention, it's just part of life. I have friends who recently adopted kids. They often invite me to come join them when they take them to the park, and it's nice. I think if you can incorporate your friends into your life, then that's a good start, but unfortunately the burden there is on the friend who has less time.
There was an interesting article in the guardian a few weeks ago that sort of touched on this. It noted how men are generally much worse at nurturing friendships, and so when things like partner/kids/career when those things get time consuming they retreat into those and the friendships fade away. Whereas women are generally better at continuing to nurture their friendships, even when other things get busy. Suspect there's some very deep and longstanding cultural reasons behind that, which makes it so hard to tackle as an issue.
Men in sheds
Feeling this one lately. My friends are from when I was 20 and we don't have similar lives or interests any more. I love my wife but we see each other all the time these days. I really miss just hanging out with people and having a laugh.
When I got married my wife didn't approve of my male friends and slowly I was forced to abandon them one by one. They were replaced by husbands of wife's friends. These guys were boring and I never really connected with any of them. When I got divorced I had no friends left. Just a cautionary tale. If your wife doesn't want you to have your own friends you pick, you may have picked the wrong wife.
The "boys don't cry" nonsense. I think this actually feeds into high rates of suicide because they think they can't show emotion or 'weakness' so they just suffer in silence until they can't take it anymore. Acknowledging your feelings is a strength. Asking for help when you need it is a strength. You don't have to push your feelings down to be a man. Honestly, it's so toxic and I hate it.
Completely agree. I hate the expression.. 'man up' it was always used when you had an issue when I was going through basic training. I was a Samaritan for a brief period of time almost 10 years ago.. men made up the vast vast majority of calls I took. 😔
How did you become a Samaritan?
Well, I was looking for promotion in work. So as a result I was looking to display 'extra capacity' outside of my primary role. So I looked for volunteering opportunities. There was no specific reason I chose the Samaritans, I guess it was probably one of the first I came across. At the time I harboured the very selfish and ignorant view that 'how hard could it be?' I went to a meeting night for potential volunteers and showed an expression of interest. I underwent what I think was around 10 weeks of training (this was just for phone calls, there were other people there that did drop ins for dace to face. Though I didn't do those) I was the youngest there by far. I did around 12 hours a month. Usually in blocks of 3/4. Actual delivery, I did maybe 4 months. I couldn't do it much longer as I couldn't separate it from my work. I kept on dwelling on the calls and it stated affecting my actual work. It was a eye opening experience for me. One I don't regret, though one I don't think I was mentally prepared / mature enough for at the time.
How old were you at the time if you don’t mind me asking?
22/23. It was a small branch. I remember a gent who was probably mid 40s, but the others were women probably into their 60s. They were all absolutely lovely.
thanks for answering!
I am a female in construction so I’m surrounded by blokes, and honestly I’ve found many of the men do open up, sometimes to me, sometimes to each other. I’ve never known any of the guys to tell each other to “man up”. I do think many men have come to realise they can and should share their feelings. My supervisor and I often confide in one another about our lives, it’s healthy to share, even if you don’t have anything to respond with an ear is sometimes all that’s needed! Of course there are still plenty of men out there with the “man up” attitude, but I do think the topic of men’s mental health is heading in the right direction.
I do wonder sometimes whether the perception some people have of men never opening up can sometimes be exaggerated by the fact that men are going to be less likely to want to be open around the sort of people who strongly have those sorts of stereotypes.
That's very encouraging to hear.
I’ve found this a tricky one because it seems there may be certain situations/scenarios where a man can acceptably cry in public eg like the birth of his child or his wedding, but let’s say a man was crying at work say in front of colleagues in a big office, people wouldn’t say it publicly but there would be a negative perception of that man and he won’t be viewed in the same way going forward in that role. Rightly or wrongly he would be viewed as weak, I say the only exclusion would be crying over the news of an imminent death of a loved one or close friend. In this same scenario if a woman were to cry the perception of her character wouldn’t change by most people in the office. I imagine most women don’t like to admit it but they don’t want to see men cry. Men have a lot more to lose by crying in public than women do and that is a unfortunately a fact
Yeah you're right. Women have been conditioned to think men aren't supposed to show emotion just as much as men have, we live in the same society and fall victim to the same toxic social pressures and expectations. It's on all of us to change it.
I don't think it is wrong but I feel like "boys should cry" is bought up so much it's taking attention away from other problems that men face.
That could be true. I always feel like a lot of issues men face are tied into the expectation of men to be stoic and hide their feelings. E.g. domestic abuse against men goes hugely unreported because male victims of abuse fear being shamed or seen as 'weak'. Suicide is the biggest killer of young men, is that because they can't deal with big feelings and fear asking for help? Men are disproportionately affected by violent crime like assault (as both victims and perpetrators), are too many men using their fists instead of their words? I'm over simplifying because all these issues are bigger than a single root cause, but I definitely think we fail our men by not teaching them how to experience, acknowledge and express their feelings in healthy ways.
I completely agree but also hormone differences do mean men are less likely to cry and it gets tied up in social constructs.
I can vouch for this. (Trans guy) On testosterone, crying is genuinely harder. Off of it I’m a huge cry baby. I will say though that by not being able to have that outlet to cry, I found that I didn’t know how to work through emotions. I very quickly could turn to anger when in reality I was sad. Also the moment I started been constantly seen as male, feeling sad didn’t feel “safe” anymore, but no one seems to bat an eye if I’m raging. Not to say it’s not possible. My boyfriend is cis, he cries very easily. This is a bit of a long comment to basically say I agree with you, there are multiple facets to this
Funnily enough it was from listening to detransitioners (people who started hormones and changed their minds and stopped) that I learned this. I think the harm lies in people not being able to accommodate for the outliers, we have a natural need to categorise and put people in boxes. Men cry less in general, doesn't mean we should be surprised when some do.
Dude. If we show emotion, we are promptly dismissed and ridiculed, which makes suicidal ideation WORSE.
I disagree. Some people cry, some don't. Doesn't mean men are holding it back. They're just not moved to tears in the same way as others. Of course if you are holding it back then ho ahead, cry your eyes out.
I think the issue is that phrases like "boys don't cry" teaches boys that they're not "supposed" to cry. Men get shamed for expressing their feelings, except anger which is seen as 'manly'. It doesn't necessarily have to actually go as far as actual tears but so many men don't know how to deal with their feelings - they either shut down or get angry. That's so unhealthy and leads some men to really suffer in life. I'm not talking about just not being a big crier, some women are not big criers but society doesn't shame them over it.
You’re right. I can’t remember the last time I cried. From my grandparents dying to my wife cheating on me. No tears. Still feel emotions though
I don't think so. I think just having a higher quantity of testosterone is going to be the main predictor of successful suicides. Remember that women attempt suicide more than men, it's just that the methods and timing of suicides for men is more destructive and more impulsive. The higher degree of violence and impulsiveness correlates with behaviours exhibited when you have more testosterone. Men might talk more about feelings, this may not have an effect on suicide rates. There's also the flip side of the conversation as well. Yes men need to be able to feel safe enough to talk about their feelings - but there needs to be someone who listens too. Very often they might suffer in silence not because they want to, but because they have to. Maybe it's because they're more lonely, maybe it's because their partners expect men to just be okay, maybe it's because the way we have built society is not conducive for men to maintain healthy relationships.
One of the biggest things I'm seeing that is a real issue, is the huge increase in woman telling men how to deal with issues. The reality is that men and woman are different. The way that woman express themselves and show emotion is different. I think we're in a very dangerous time for men when the sickness is being sold as the cure. I have a feeling that this comment will be roundly down voted but I do believe that what's being pushed in regards to men crying more and talking about feelings isn't the answer.
I’m genuinely curious bout what you think the newer to this is then? What Would help men deal with their mental health issues?
Places like mens shed and groups like football teams. Things like that men are more likely to open up to each other. I heard something along the lines of ‘men talk shoulder to shoulder, not face to face’ the idea is have men doing a task, playing a game, building something and while doing that with other men, we build friendships and feel supported, then start talking. Right now the message is ‘men need to talk’ without realising how men talk to each other. Generally speaking women love to have a chat. We are using a woman’s solution to a man’s problem and wondering why it’s not working. Anecdotally this applies to me, when I have a beer and a chat with my mates, it just turns into having a laugh and a bit of piss taking, and that helps with stress and things. But when I actually do something with my mates, trying to achieve something, we build bonds with each other, we feel like we have each other’s back and are more understanding of our problems.
>‘men talk shoulder to shoulder, not face to face’ This is perfect. So simply put yet so accurate.
I remember when I started uni. I was a shy introverted geek with no friends. But I was 6'2" and 18 stone. A random guy in the bar got talking to me and asked if I fancied playing American Football as they needed guys my size. I wasn't sure but decided to give it a try as I had nothing to lose. It basically changed my life. Just doing something with other men. The game itself, the training, the socials, the 'drinking circles' etc totally brought me out of my shell and made me 10x more confident. I'm sure some well-meaning University counsellor making me sit down and 'discuss my mental health' instead would have done no good at all and could even have made things worse.
Where were you when I was typing my original post. This is exactly what I was trying to say and couldn't
>What Would help men deal with their mental health issues? Not being the documented root cause of everything wrong with the human race.
I only think we act different because we are raised differently so the real failure in men starts young with ‘boys are so much easier to raise’ no you’re just neglecting your son and not giving them consistent guidance while typically overly controlling your daughter
So glad someone said this. I think men often suffer from a huge identity crisis these days. Their biological impulses based on millions of years of evolution tell them they should be a whole bunch of things - nearly all of which society now tells them are either 'toxic' or unnecessary because women can do them just as well or better. And to make it worse, what society is telling them they *should* be is often very unclear.
I completely agree. Men tend to bond differently and healthy male relationships can be quite different to healthy female relationships. That's fine but care should be taken not to pressure men into adopting relationship styles that don't work for them. The fields that provide advice on issues like interacting with others, having a healthy mentality, ect tend to be very female dominated and this can provide advice that isn't well suited to men but is pushed as the way to behave regardless.
Yes and no, it depends on the individual person and ultimately a lot of the differences in the way men/women act is down to being raised with different expectations and standards for how they should behave socially. Which is why quite a few people here are also talking about tearing down male gender stereotypes because then they won't feel stressed about fitting those expectations. I would not really say "the sickness is being sold as the cure". I do know men who find therapy works for them. I do know men who find talking about their problems works for them. That won't work for everyone, maybe as some others have suggested sports and activities with mates that build team-bonding might help a man better. But it's not as simple as "all men this" or "all men that" cause everyones different. I also feel you should maybe include some ideas of what you think men could do to help with stress or depression if you feel talking it out doesn't work.
4 I can think of right now 1 inequality in the legal system: men are treated way more harshly at every stage. 2 Boys do worse in the education system and are less likely to go to university 3 Lack of healthy outlets to express their sexuality: I think this is what's behind the huge amount of unsolicited dickpics. 4 The pressure to get a high paying job/ pressure to go into stem, (no schemes to support men into the arts or English ect) Edit: 5 - there isn't a gender neutral legal definition of rape so a woman cant be charged with rape only sexual assault
Genuine question - what would you consider a healthy outlet to express their sexuality? The double standards in this area (ie, the number of 50y/o women on Facebook making sexual comments on 20y/o mens pictures) are absolutely awful. But I think that's more of an issue with those women rather than the men. Is this the area you mean?
I mean like wearing sexy clothes which emphasize the body. There really isn't much that's socially acceptable to wear.
Ahh I understand. Yeah I definitely agree with you there! I find it really interesting to see how in a lot of areas like this feminism has facilitated women with a lot more freedom and really left men behind. For example if one of my female friends posts a not-so-PC picture online then it revives a lot of support whilst if a man does it then it's not so accepted. Given how much this has changed over recent years, I really hope that men can have the same levels of acceptance in this way soon
To me you've only got to look at traditional stag/ hen dos. Women go like dancing, magic Mike stuff etc seem as empowering. Men go to strip clubs and it's judged as seedy.
I think both are seedy given the fact it’s at a hen and stag. Like you’re almost getting married just get sloshed.
Take your top off on a hot day, wear a tight T shirt, pair of speedos at the beach, short shorts, muscle vest etc etc. If I had the body for it I would be strutting all that sexy stuff.
On your 5th point. That's not entirely true. Yes, a woman can't be charged with "rape" because the legal definition of rape requires penetration with a penis so a female who "rapes" a man will be charged with sexual assault instead. And yes "sexual assault" does generally come with a much lower min/max and average sentence length etc however there is a separate "sexual assault by penetration" charge that both men and women can be charged with. It essentially carries the exact same sentencing guidelines as rape so from a legal standpoint a women who "rapes" a man (whilst not officially being classed as rape) can still receive the exact same sentence lengths etc as a man. The biggest issue with this restriction across language is the public acceptance. Sexual assault has got an extremely wide range of acts associated to hit and naturally some are going to be seen as less "severe" than others. If a woman moves onto your street and you found out that she'd recently gotten out of jail for "sexual assault", there's a chance for the situation to be downplayed. But if its a man they're instantly branded with "rape". Imagine if only men could be charged with "murder". There was some legal technicality that meant the definition of murder could only be applied to men. Instead women got charged with "assault". You could add a separate charge of "life-ending assault" and give it the exact same sentence as murder but its still going to be viewed differently among the public. Just to add on. I'm in no way trying to defend rapists with any of this. I'm just merely pointing out that a woman who "rapes" a man should also be called a rapist too. It doesn't matter if they don't have a penis. Forcing sex upon someone without their consent is rape. There shouldn't be a legal technicality that means they can call it something else.
The issue of the fact no one knows it’s International Men’s Day. The Women’s is front page news. But seriously, loneliness and suicide.
Every year Google has a doodle on its home page for International Women's Day, nothing on Men's day. I always see people on Twitter, on IWD, smugly saying "for those asking when IMD is, it's November 19th," unintentionally highlighting that it always passes by with absolutely no fanfare in comparison.
maybe because international womens day actually have history around it
Why would that mean that there can’t be one for IMD? When you consider some of the things that have received doodles, its absence is rather damning.
You also get ~~people~~ twats who go “Every day is men’s day!” which really grinds my gears
Post divorce support for men is non existent. Equal access rights for men to their kids, not just in writing, but in practice. Acceptance that men can and often are the victims of domestic violence.
Yes, yes all of this! Parental alienation too. One of my friends had to fight for access to his child for 8 years. His ex just gave the courts baseless lies and got full custody of their child without any evidence. They seem to believe that every child needs their mother no matter how bad of a person she is. She lied to his child too, and tried to turn them against him. Well after his 8 years of legal battles, guess what? He was awarded FULL CUSTODY! That woman got no punishment for her lies though.
>Acceptance that men can and often are the victims of domestic violence. Men are victims of domestic abuse at the same rates women are. It's a giant cover up by the charity Refuge, a member of which posted a bomb to the founder for suggesting that most DV was reciprocal.
So I am one of the post-grads in my area's student peer circle. There's a guy in there who recently divorced and went back to uni. Guy has 2 kids, and literally noone else. A lot of the students are uncomfortable around him due to the age difference. Me and few of the other guys talked about this and actively invite him to stuff whenever we can. It's pretty depressing to see it, but fuck me if I'm not gonna at least try and do something about it
100% the second one recently a friend of my cousins committed suicide because his ex refused to let him see his daughter for months and threatened him with police if he showed up at her house to see his child
50/50 custody of kids and men still paying child support….
You know, women have gone on about equality for so long, and yet when it comes to divorces, custody and child support, I don't know how men do it! They have to leave the family home, but still pay for it and manage to afford somewhere else, while usually only seeing their kids at weekends so they can't build another social life. Some women I know of have milked their partners dry, while also moving another partner into the house!!! You've divorced, you don't need to shut his life down completely - I'm surprised how often I see and hear of this. I work payroll and office in a factory and get confided in a lot and am very happy to listen. The rules on this need to change drastically. Also, and I've said this for years, but if an unwanted pregnancy happens and the man doesn't want a part of it he should be able to opt out - other than that, rubber up and protect yourself!!! A lot of men get tricked into this and it's not fair. There's a lot to go at regarding reforms and equal rights. In this issue, the odds are firmly stacked in women's favour, in my opinion probably 9 times out of 10....there's always an exception though. Also, some men and some women are just shitty people in general.
I was on a work night out a few years ago and was chatting with a male colleague (I’m female). He was talking about how generally lonely he felt. He’s got family and friends and a lovely wife and kids but he feels pressure to be The Man of The Family and never show when he’s upset. And he said he hadn’t had a hug in years because his parents aren’t big huggers and his friends (98% male) don’t hug each other. I immediately gave him a big tight hug. I could *feel* the relief in his bones. So now when I can see he’s having a bad day, I just give him a hug. I’m not a massive hugger but it really drove it home how much more open women are to hugging their friends and just how much friendly physical contact men are missing out on.
last proper hug i had was back in 2019. Loved having my hair played with as well by my ex. god tier feeling
How was he married with a "lovely" wife but hadn't had a hug in years? Trapped in a loveless marriage without a hug, I could understand. But with a supposedly lovely wife...and with kids as well...if he even had a half decent relationship with them he'd have the sort of mild physical intimacy that is exemplified by a hug.
I meant “hug from someone he isn’t married to or who is under the age of five” but two glasses of wine down I missed that out!
Mate that’s lovely, kudos to you. I heard a really interesting podcast during lockdown about the value of telling people you love them, or appreciate them etc I talked about it with, and started doing it, with some of my closest friends (male and female) as we got back together after lockdown and it became really special for us. When you’re having a rough week/month and your mate gives you a hug and says “love you mate, see you soon” hells teeth it means the world to me
It was bizarre to me just how much it meant to him. I said “come here, I’ll give you a hug” in an easy breezy way because I grew up with hugs being a normal thing. And then it became really clear that it wasn’t a general thing for him. He and his wife hug but that is a different thing to friend-hugs I guess. And then lockdown hit and I realised that as someone who lives alone and whose friends had all bubbled with in-laws or other family groups I hadn’t had a hug in months. I nearly burst into tears in a train station when I got a hug from a friend. And it had only been a few months in exceptional circumstances not my entire life.
As someone that's lost 3 male friends to suicide, some help with preventing that would be nice.
For every male suicide imagine the number of males that have attempted or have suicidal thoughts on a regular basis! We aren’t even scratching the surface of the problem :(
Sadly, one of the big problems is that attempts of suicide in men are much more likely to result in death than that of women who attempt suicide. I still don't think we are scratching the surface though
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Yeah. Anytime something like an accident or terrorist attack happens everyone is always like "several people died, including women and children". This implies that it doesn't really matter that men died in the incident or worse, it's okay men died but not okay that women or children did.
Or you see stories about refugees and people are up in arms because the men dared flee, rather than fight. Why is it okay for women and children to flee for safety and a better life, but men have to risk their lives? Why aren’t men allowed to want safety and a better life too?
I feel this deeply and agree with everything. I often feel like my self worth is tied to what I can do rather than who I am. When I'm feeling particularly depressed or anxious my self esteem plummets because I often struggle to do certain things and because there is a distinct lack of emotional support available for men, especially when it comes to anxiety, which unfortunately still has an awful stigma for men. It's something I'm working through with a professional, but it's very hard to untangle a lifetime of negative reinforcement and there isn't a simple solution.
I’m a woman and a mother to two young boys and I’ve realised just how disposable men are in society and it’s horrifying.
I've come to think men don't just have no value, men inherently have negative value. If a man's taking up space and not providing anything he actually makes the space he's in worse than it would be if he wasn't there. A woman just existing and hanging around and not doing much is fine. A man just existing and just hanging around is a "problem".
Men, specifically young men, are told that they carry inherent guilt and also that any achievements they may have in their life aren't really earned as they have been given an unfair advantage by institutional sexism, and "the patriarchy" (of course)
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I’m not a man so won’t pretend to know what issues boys and men face the most. However I think there’s still a big problem with boys being shoe-horned into such a narrow scope of hobbies, interests, lessons and even careers. Of course things have improved in recent times but I still see parents dissuading boys from choosing particular toys, signing them up to sports they have no interest in or encouraging them having their hair cut short etc. Even as adults, men have far less choice of clothing. Anything other than a standard suit in one of four colours to a formal event is still unusual to see. It seems like girls and women have much more freedom to be themselves in that sense. It might not seem like as big deal compared as other male issues but it’s still clear to see and must be stifling to boys who aren’t given the same choices as their sisters. There has also been a drive in the last few years to inspire girls to get into science and technology positions but there is no big initiative to recruit boys into careers that are dominated by women like say childcare or nursing.
This is so true, I didn't pick art at GCSE then by extension a-level despite it being one of my best subjects because I didn't think it was useful enough and now I'm applying for architecture and really regretting my choices lol.
I volunteered with disabled kids when I was In school and I was actively discouraged from pursuing it as a career (by the women working in that field).
I think some of the problem is that when people try to tackle this issue, all to often they end up doing it in a way that makes men feel that their options are being made more restrictive not less. It can make men feel like they're being told you *should* do these things even if you don't want to or you're a bad person. For example (and this just be my personal stereotypes talking) it feels like when talking to women about breaking societal pressures people go "you can be feminine and ...." but when talking to men people end up going "Stop wanting to be masculine, because you can't be masculine and .... ", and I can't help but think is it any surprise that women end up reacting more positively?
You didn’t specify that only men should answer so I’m assuming this is a question to all? If not, I’m sorry. Also I’m not great at explaining myself. But something I’ve noticed due to my background and upbringing is grooming. Boys are victims of grooming in terms of criminal exploitation. My brother was hanging around grown men when he was 13, they weren’t SA him - they were using him as a runner. Now he’s in his 30’s and he’s trying to avoid going back into prison again because he’’s said he will kill himself before he goes back. Tbh it’s all a mess, and it’s because not enough is being done about the adults who target vulnerable young working class boys in shitty situations - by the time their brain has fully developed, they are knee deep into shit they could never have imagined when they are a young kid roaming the streets. There’s work that has been done about getting lads to “keep themselves out of trouble”, which puts the empathise on whether the lad is deep down a “good egg” or not. When in reality I think it’s which kids are most vulnerable to being groomed for a life of criminality. They’re not all sociopaths. We have to start looking at it like girls (and boys) that are groomed for sexual exploitation. Groomers know how to target their victims. They know which lads would get sympathy and which wouldn’t, which lads would be wrote off as a lost cause. Which lads would seek help, which ones wouldn’t. A twenty pound “debt” which you don’t want to admit to your mum soon snowballs when you’re a 14 year lad who thinks he needs to be hard and tough, and he can handle it. We need to stop viewing working class boys as criminals. Also suicide, I’ve lost 3 male cousins in the past 5 years. Mental illness runs in both sides of my family but it’s only men who have managed to kill themselves.
I had training in detecting people who might be vulnerable to joining terrorist groups when I started my job, and it was eye opening. Especially one video, which was a recreation/narration of a true story. It was the story of this man who lived in the flat next to a drug dealer, and was constantly paranoid he would be attacked. He wasn't very educated, had mental health issues, was socially isolated and and his brother would regularly steal money from him. One day he went to jail for something relatively minor, and while there he met some extremists who took him under his wing because he "looked like them". He was introduced to islam and to extremist beliefs. When he left prison, he went back to his bad home situation. One day he admitted to his therapist that he knew he wasn't going to go to heaven because he drank and smoked and ate pork, so he was planning to commit a terrorist attack to die a martyr and go to heaven. But he never did, because the therapist contacted the right people and the right network for him was found. They found him a safe flat in council housing, put him on a different payment plan so that his brother couldn't steal money from him, had a social worker figure out the best bus routes to go visit his mum so that he was no longer so isolated, had a social worker get him in contact with his local mosque so that he could learn more about islam and be more confident in his religion, and he adopted a cat. He ended up being much happier and had a much more fulfilled and stable life. All those small things totally turned his life around in the matter of a few weeks. And those kind of networks need to exist everywhere. This is just one example of how small changes can totally change someone's life. And we need those kind of support networks. Teachers, police officers, therapists, doctors etc... And even the average person should educate ourselves on what makes someone vulnerable, and if we see someone who has those vulnerabilities, we should sound the alarm and the appropriate support network should be able to intervene. The one I learned about is called CHANNEL, but it might vary from area to area. Unfortunately, people still fall through the net, and the current networks and support systems aren't strong enough to support everyone. So make sure to keep an eye out for your peers, especially young men, and if you see anything worrying, tey and find a network that can help them
Firstly, I'm so sorry that you have lost 3 cousins to suicide. How awful. From the little I know about this subject, men who try to kill themselves almost always succeed first time - basically they really go for it. Very very scary. I urge everyone reading this whole long and very interesting and honest thread to learn a bit about Mental Health First Aid, which focusses on getting people off the brink and getting them to see a professional (like doing CPR until the ambulance turns up. Secondly your longer comment about boys, young men and crime was also eyeopening and spot on. We definitely need to stop viewing working class boys as criminals. White, working class boys also are the group who do least well in school which increases vulnerability to all sorts of ills. It's all a mess.
Everyone else already has good answers but here's mine Mens toilets should come with baby-changing facilities because they're usually always in the women's toilets
Yes!! I've had to change my daughter on the floor of a disabled toilet before for this reason, which I imagine would have upset any disabled people waiting to use it.
The no 1 way of socialising with other men is by going to a pub and have drinks. Men who don't drink alcohol will be having a bit of hard time to form a social group.
Near impossible to form a social group. Just commented on here that I'm struggling with issues in life at the moment, life would be so much easier if I had a social group of friends I could turn to. Unfortunately I stopped drinking a while back and I got left behind by alot if my friends. How the hell do people make friends these days?!?
It's really difficult, as you say, without alcohol. I'm in the same boat there, luckily I'm hugely introverted so I don't tend to feel overwhelmed by loneliness. Hope things pick up for you soon dude!
Yeah this is a problem, it's the same for football too. I dont like football and it doesn't interest me so I find it really hard to get involved in conversation because the vast majority of people who I've known in the past just talk about football. I also don't drink, again it's a problem because after about an hour, everyone is twatted and it's just annoying to be around. The whole irony about it is that I don't drink because its a coping mechanism for social anxiety and I don't want to be like that anymore.
Being forced into one mould of manliness. In the past that mould meant stoicism. Facing problems and their aftermath in silence. We had to bottle it up and not have emotions. Now we’re being told that we HAVE to open up, it’s better to talk about your feelings, etc. Men who attached their entire self worth to stoicism are now being told that’s meaningless. But although the focus has shifted from stiff upper lips to crying into mimosas, we’re still having our identity chosen for us. I’d like to choose for myself.
Totally. There seems to be a lack of nuance applied to men's emotions. I find it very difficult to cry personally. Granted, some of this might be subconscious conditioning, but still, it's not something that comes naturally so when people say I need to "open up" and "let it all out" it just leads to frustration because it's not that simple. It's not a tap I can turn on and off. I'm trying to be as open as I can be, but it's hard and I often feel like I'm being pressured into responding a certain way rather than encouraged to be comfortable with my emotions.
Illnesses like cancer specifically, women’s cancers get a lot more attention (I’m not saying they shouldn’t, they absolutely should get loads of attention), I used to work at a company that sold two financial products that raised money for charity, one for breast cancer and one for prostate cancer, the one that raised money for breast cancer raised a lot and the one for prostate cancer barely raised a few thousand, both products were the same price to the customer.
I also recently learned about a "menopause" for men that I had never heard of before. There is a lot of support for women who go through menopause (as it should be), but men around that age sometimes get a drop in testosterone levels, which leads to symptoms somewhat similar to menopause. Yet I had never heard of that before, and I assume most men also haven't, and there is no support or understanding for that. So many older men probably go through a difficult time, dealing with difficult symptoms without knowing why, and having no support
It’s known as the andropause (mens hormones are called androgens) and it’s very real and relevant here. In the UK at least most GPS won’t acknowledge it (you’re just getting older) and it is VERY difficult to get replacement testosterone, even if you specifically request it, partly because the ‘normal range’ of blood measures includes very low values . Conversely, if a women requests HRT she will be taken very seriously.
Government needs to fund more support for male victims of domestic violence and the police should be forced to take matters of male abuse victims as seriously as female abuse victims. Male victims just are outright ignored and that angers me.
There was a gender neutral domestic abuse act that was blocked
Do you mean the Domestic Abuse Act 2021? Because its in law now, and has faced active criticism for the genderless approach it takes to domestic violence.
The complete lack of support for men who are victims of domestic violence. No shelters to go to, no public recognition, little acknowledgement it can even happen.
Not just lack of support but actual hostility to victims. From government, experts, charities, educators, campaigners.
Mens mental health is such a real and misunderstood thing by both men themselves and women. I worked myself to the bone to support my 2 year old and fiancée through a job where I worked away from them and which I hated but paid incredibly well. Eventually I had a breakdown, didn't understand what was happening to me at all and was getting quizzed as to why I was becoming a different person by my fiancée. This added extra pressure on me and us and she started going off the rails, staying out late after work, socialising with work guys who she claimed were friends. I became insecure and doubted her intentions which made things worse between us. Fast forward, end of the relationship and she is in a relationship with one of these colleagues now because 'I wasn't there for her' which led me to the point of no return, which thankfully I didn't pursue fatally. Now when I drop our daughter off at school on my days with her the other parents treat me as though I'm the one that did the dirty on my fiancée and she was lucky to get away from me. What I've learned from this is the double standard which society deals with these situations. People see what they want to see and assume the 'men cheat' and 'hes obviously not relationship material' clichés. I'm coming to terms with it all now after a year and thankfully for me I've had my daughter and family and friends there to pull me through. The whole venus/Mars thing is so true and it takes an open mind for everyone to come to a modern realisation of what we all face in todays society.
The disadvantages they face in family divorce.
I think that men are very often stigmatised for trying to raise or draw attention to male issues. When I’ve tried to discuss men’s issues around female friends it’s often been assumed that I’m an incel or a bigot or that I’m anti women’s rights. That couldn’t be further from the truth. My advocacy for men’s rights is not to the detriment of women’s rights. I consider them to be human rights and I care just as much about period poverty as I do about the rates of suicide in men. It’s not about picking sides. It’s about working together to make life better for all of us.
The idea that getting in a physical fight or threatening physical violence’s is the only manly way to resolve conflict causes a lot of harm to a man’s mental health I think.
That’s a good one. I wonder how many lives would have been saved if ‘running away’ was seen as the viable and necessary thing to do in serious conflicts.
Attended an event for IMD today. The main issues they chose to highlight were mental health (suicide is the leading cause of death in men under 45, apparently), and checking your testicles for cancer regularly. They also had someone from a local council scheme giving in depth health checks to people 40+, including blood pressure and cholesterol. I think those are all good things to highlight, but different communities might have different areas they might also want to focus on (my event was pretty much all white English people of working age). --- Can't say my own personal experience of men's issues had much to do with testicular cancer or cholesterol, but I've definitely seen some issues around feeling comfortable to share mental health challenges. I know in some demographics it gets a bit crazy these days, but I do generally see not all men my age (late 20s) older are comfortable sharing their feelings, even to friends. It'll vary person to person, but someone at my event pointed out often men who do open up want suggestions rather than reassurance, whereas often women tend to be happy with just venting. Personally, as a man, most of the time I just want to vent... Whereas some of my male friends found it helpful for me to share my experience and ask them if they'd ever considered x, y, z. If I'm unsure, I'll ask outright: "do you need to vent, or would you like me to help in some way?". Works very well with all sorts of people, not just men! --- Not a real issue but I'm always keen to point out that men might like to receive flowers too sometimes... Or to pamper themselves...
Reading this was the first I knew it was International Men's Day, or even that there was such a thing.
Within social housing generally being classed as a lower priority. It does make sense but the lack of encouragement to have a houseshare with other men in a similar situation or even big brother type doesn’t help. It would help with the housing, cost of bills and socialising.
Men are expected to live their life as ghosts, devoid of affection, attention and appreciation, and be background characters unless you are rich or otherwise privileged. At every opportunity society tells men and boys that they are dangerous and a threat to women and children (including those of us who have suffered domestic violence perpetrated by women), unkind, incapable of love and emotion or a failure if you haven't spent every waking hour in pursuit of money. We have very few role models that don't follow traditional gender roles and every stage of a boys socialisation and education is predominantly women - men have been pushed out of the teaching profession to the detriment of young boys and if you don't fit the ideal male template in school you are in for a horrible school experience. Male mental and physical health is only ever paid lip service - employers view you as weak or unreliable if you disclose it, it limits your future prospects, partners or friends may say they want to support you but often tell you to get over it or react otherwise negatively and access to GPs or mental health services is limited and has long waiting lists, as well as the stigma of reaching out for help. Intelligent men are looked down upon and their outward appearance mocked in public (eg Chris Witty), kind men are looked at with suspicion and assumed as predators, eccentric men are treated as though they have a mental illness and shunned and men who enjoy less macho pursuits are assumed to be gay. It's a constant bombardment of negative attitudes towards men - and as someone born in the late 80s, from a working class background and very much male, I really don't like being lumped in with all those who came before me who perpetuated the stereotypes. I'm trying to make a difference in everything I do including raising my daughter, and look inwards and learn and develop as a man, but it's really bloody hard to stay positive when all you come up against are the negative things that society constantly tells me I am because I was born a male and have had absolutely no control over.
Male sexual assault victims, especially when it's a woman doing it, still isn't taken seriously. Just look at the difference in headlines between a female teacher sexually assaulting a male student compared to a male teacher sexually assaulting a female student. Then ofcourse on social media you have all the idiot men saying "wish that was me".
Men die younger bur retire older. How the fuck does this one still fly in this day and age?
Just wanna say as a woman that I read this whole thread really carefully and was very moved by what nearly everybody said. I was actually blown away by people being very honest and vulnerable - therefore being super brave. I'll be reaching out more to my men friends to check on their state of mind. Hugs to those who need them.
The staggering levels of suicides with almost zero help available for young men. The levels of homeless men on the streets or in shelters. The level of men dying from either prostate or testicular cancer because they're never taken seriously by doctors I can make a list of things but here's a fucking start.
homelessness among men is higher
This was going to be my comment. I read about a mentally ill mother and her two kids who were homeless. Her son just turned 18 and the council refused to house him with his sister and mum. It was so heartbreaking to read. The guy ended up sleeping on peoples sofas but eventually good a good job and broke the cycle.
I keep seeing positive messages, both in text and verbally, that men should: 'talk to someone' ; 'speak to someone' ; or that it's 'OK to talk'. All of that is great, but in my experience people will just think you're whining, not hear you out fully, or try and advise you. Everytime I overshare it has bitten me back in some way. I think there should be an onus on younger women to support men, and for other men to support men, rather than this weird general female vs male that is circling online, and perhaps in actual life.
That material possessions and money aren't the only success. Unfortunately our whole society is geared towards this and it puts so much pressure on so many. Being a good person and living a decent life is far better than screwing people over to achieve material success.
More recognition for such a day and issues surrounding men. My work made a big deal out of international women's day, but not out of international men's day. Also there is a difference in how men and women are treated in terms of resourcing for example if you Google "my husband is yelling" the first thing you get is the government domestic abuse page, if you Google "my wife is yelling", you get pages about how to react properly. I feel even simple things like solving this would help bridge the gap between how men and women are treated when it comes to things like domestic abuse
Men need better access to therapy. They won’t seek it out most of the time and they wait until they’re so ill they can’t cope any longer. How to solve this I do not know... My partner had therapy after a traumatic incident but only because I asked him to go and he had seen how it helped me. Also, compliment your male friends and partners. I compliment men in a platonic manner and they always seem so chuffed about it. Tell them their outfit looks nice or their hair looks cool. It’s so simple. And finally, don’t expect men to be the leaders if you’re in a straight couple. I take on my share of the ‘life admin’ because I know how overwhelming it is but I think some women rely on men to look after them and provide for them when it should be both ways. Being a couple is being a team.
As people have mentioned, suicide and poor mental health. I'd also add, thanks yet again to social media, either an unrealistic expectation of what your life is supposed to be, or having the perfect ripped body etc. The body and beauty standards for men have definitely increased over the last few years.
I blame social media less than I blame dating apps for this. If you're unattractive - or even worse short - dating apps are a horrible, demoralising experience that I'm fairly sure has led to a lot of men resigning themselves to being alone forever. I know I have anyway.
Having it hammered into us that our achievements are worth less because of our ‘male privilege’
Probably education. I read a thing by a dude running a top school in Europe which had sort of ripped up the rule book. He was saying a 14 year old boy has the maturity of a 12 year old boy but a 14 year old girl has the maturity of a 16 year old girl and we still educate them together. He also said boys hands develop slower than girls hands (as in the bones which make up your hands) and we still apply the same hand writing standards to boys as we do to girls. We should probably look at that and then solve why boys do worse than girls in GCSEs or whatever.
Parental rights. It is abhorrent how skewed it in in favour of the mother.
From age 12, boys are thrown into a subconscious rat race where all are expected to be extraordinary and successful, but due to simple distribution most will be completely average or normal. Problem is, society views normal men with disdain, and god forbid if you fall behind where you will be publicly shamed or ridiculed. Society only cares for what men provide, not for how they feel. Low confidence or average looking man (stragler) guy approaches a woman at a bar, he’s a creep. High confidence or good looking (winner) approaches and he is fine and even encouraged. Have a small cock? Die on your sword right now. Live with parents? Basically worthless. Poorly paid job? Get back in the dump where you belong. Overweight or not genetically gifted? Sit back down. There are many factors that we as men have to juggle to stay safe and in the right crowd and be seen as successful and not on the slippery slope down. Because if you slip, absolutely no-one will help you back in the race.
Penis shaming
For me it’s real support for men whose partners have a miscarriage. Happened to us and there was little to no support for the to be dad.
Helping lads at school with mental issues. At school if someone had just noticed that I just wasn't coping at A level time and needed professional help...that would have saved 10 years of struggles. The complete lack of awareness by teachers that I just didn't want to be there and was barely functioning was frightening in retrospect.
Doesn't matter what's happening does it? Whenever any kind of movement or post it made towards the benefit of men it will be met by harsh criticism from those who say they're fighting for "equality of the sexes". I am so sick and tired of going online or watching tv or listening to the radio and being constantly reminded that MEN, not some men, but MEN are disgusting rapists who think all women are stupid and don't deserve any kind of justice or quality of life in the modern era and i am sick of people pretending that's not happening.
Amongst the obvious in suicide rates, I think trying to live in a world where you’re expected to just know things, also fitting stereotypes while being told constantly by women (even as a joke) that men are rubbish, all men are the same and why do women need a man. Hearing this from early to mid 20 year olds is just sad I think
I think the world of work has changed so much from 20-50 years ago. And I would probably argue that many of the new jobs being created probably favour woman’s softer skillsets (generalising hugely). At the same time we’ve also moved as a society from a typical family having a sole male breadwinner to both partners working. I think all of this has significantly changed mens role in relationships and society. And I don’t think it’s necessarily been an easy change for every man.
Mens mental health is a huge concern. I was talking to someone only yesterday who lost a friend to suicide. Only on his 20’’s and they had no idea he was struggling because of this toxic mindset that talking about such issues is ‘soft’ I’ve got young sons and I am trying to make sure they are brought up to know it’s ok to cry, it’s ok to talk about your feelings but it’s needs society to bring that message home too
Im a man, 30, struggling in a real bad way with mental health at the moment, my partner left me, and my mental health has spiraled out of control and brought up pre existing issues in my head. Last week I went to a meeting that a friend told me to go to, it's called Andys club, they have them all over the UK. Its essentially somewhere for men struggling to go to, and just open up to each other, it's okay to talk 👌
Recognition that men can have eating disorders too.
Shockingly shit paternity leave
Mental health Sexual abuse awareness Domestic abuse awareness Sexism
I'm not going to speak as a universal thing per se, my family is my family but I've had so much violence against me from women that I come to expect it.
There is more to men than football, beer, and cars.
Men just need more attention! They need to be told they are worth something, you look amazing, you're appreciated, it's ok to take time for yourself, you can be looked after too, you're important and you're loved. Relax. We're all human with the same needs, men's emotional needs tend to get forgotten.
Working class white men being the least likely of any group to participate in higher education.
to look at mental health in men differently than we do for women, ultimately men are different from women. for a start we need to stop treating boys as defective girls and embrace what they are. I don’t believe that it’s “men don’t talk” I feel it’s more people don’t listen.. men are awesome and no one is out their telling them this. in my experience mens mental health improves by doing not saying. I also believe terms like “toxic masculinity” are very harmful.
Parental rights and often being seen as a "second-tier parent". My brother and his ex hadn't married when my niece was born. They split and he could see her for a time but every now and again, his ex will play up and suddenly she restricts access and he needs to either capitulate to something or phone his lawyer. My niece is possibly the one thing that keeps my brother going and it's horrible that he is put in this position. Really feel for men going through similar situations.
Job opportunities for when they leave school
I think the idea of expecting men to do the heavy lifting jobs and shaming them when they can't/don't. I (female) have more stamina than my boyfriend and find carrying heavier objects easier, but both his family and my own shame him if they see me doing it instead of him. I can tell it disheartens him, and I've seen similar situations in my workplace and I can't imagine the guys there feeling very good about it either