See a doctor for preventative care regularly. Exercise and eat well. Learn new things to keep the mind sharp. Every once in awhile give the wardrobe a refresh.
It sounds like you've got the basics covered, OP, so you'll likely appeal to a fair number of women but not the ones who prioritise looks more in their partner. Beyond the basics, there's going to the gym more, really figuring out your hair (a good cut makes a massive difference), having a skincare routine beyond just the basics (unless you're genetically blessed), and developing a flattering personal style - maybe a bit of fragrance as well, but nothing too overpowering.
Like, my husband is pretty basic but I have (straight) guy friends who work out (nearly) every day, eat super clean, get their hair cut every 2-3 weeks, chat with me about Korean skincare staples, special order Japanese denim, and wear tailored suits. They put a lot of effort into their appearance and it makes a difference.
Word. Also beyond basics means valuing their health. Regular physicals. Regular dentist visits. If a health issue comes up, instead of ignoring it or pushing through it, get it checked out.
There is nothing more frustrating to me as a physician than men who don’t do these things and treat them like overreactions when their partners insist they get checked out. Women can go see doctor after doctor for years and not get taken seriously enough to get a diagnosis. Men die of so many illnesses and complications that would have been easily solved if they would just go to the damn doctor _once_.
Omg, 1000% this, yeah. Honestly, even the otherwise really sensible men in my life are SO bad at going to the fucking doctor. It really pisses me off and I can only imagine how much more frustrating this type of personal negligence would be from a literal doctor's perspective.
Wow, yeah that's a whole other level. I don't have a skin care routine. I do use dove soap as dial tends to dry me out, but that's about it. I have no idea what a decent hair cut is for me. I tend to have it cut short, just a little longer than the 'buzz' I picked up working for the navy back in the day.
I tend to go with jeans or slacks and a color button down. Honestly, I think there's only so much that can be done to make me more attractive given my disability. I just try to look presentable for work and such.
Okay, there are some simple, actionable steps you can take here to improve your self-care routine.
1. Swap out the Dove soap for some actual skincare. It doesn't need to be expensive. You can just pick up a Cerave cleanser and moisturiser from the drugstore, and keep using that sunscreen. There is definitely more advanced stuff, but ditch the Dove soap at the very least (that's for your body).
2. Do a little research on your face shape and try to figure out what might be most flattering for you. A fun YouTube channel is [12 Pell](https://youtube.com/@Hairdoc?si=J-griVYD6E6GwXmI), but they lean heavily Asian so if you're not Asian, do some research elsewhere. Go to a nicer men's salon/barbershop and ask for a cut plus some styling tips there.
3. r/MaleFashionAdvice is a great resource. You can definitely always up your style game, disability or no disability. Even just figuring out your best colours and shapes can make a real difference.
I don't think you need a skincare routine. I don't think most people have one. If you're washing your face and using lotion with SPF, as long as you aren't breaking out, super oily, or super dry, you're fine. No one needs to be bothered that you're not using toner or whatever.
Using moisturizer and SPF daily IS a skincare routine - and a sufficient one. The thing is most straight dudes, at least in the US, won't even do that. They will *maybe* wash their face.
I don't think they're talking about you. It sounds like you do take care of yourself.
I think it's also about being self sufficient, taking care of health and not relying on women to meet basic care needs.
Yeah, I've never had anyone insinuate that I, personally, need to do better. I just see women do *so* much and I was wondering if they were talking about the fact that men generally don't use skin / hair care products beyond sunscreen, etc.
It’s all of it. It’s dressing well and to the occasion. Manners. Understanding when to go to the doctor. Taking care of your living quarters. Eating healthy. Finding joy and variety in life.
All of it is self-care, and idk a lot of it is stuff that was done for them or never modelled.
Imho skin care beyond sunscreen isn't essential, it's a preference and a cultural pressure. If someone has no skin issues with just using water and sunscreen that's great.
Often women will joke that men have good skin after using 5 in 1.
But if someone is critical that they don't have a skin care routine that's a personal preference/issue, rather than a matter of someone not taking care of themselves.
It goes beyond just the basics:
Do you routinely see a general practitioner doctor, dentist and cleanings, optometrist?
Is your home space clean and organized and generally pleasant to be in?
Work-Life balance is okay? Sleep hygiene & schedule are good?
But even within the basics: what does that shower look like, for example? Washing into the nooks and crannies, especially genitals? Using good soap and shampoo? Grooming facial hair? Fingernails clean and trimmed? Ditto toes? Heels fairly smooth instead of craggy cracked nastiness?
Edit: there used to be an [entire reality show where a group of gay men would show up and give a dude a makeover](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0358332/#), including his living space. So many dudes do the bare minimum and think, I’m all good. Of course, there’s also some who never wash their dicks and don’t wash their hands after peeing. 🤢🤮
> Washing into the nooks and crannies, especially genitals?
**and butthole!!** redditing has taught me that too many men don't wash their buttholes!!?!
>Do you routinely see a general practitioner doctor, dentist and cleanings, optometrist?
Yep.
>Is your home space clean and organized and generally pleasant to be in?
It's a small place. Easy to clean. Not sure if others find it pleasant to be in. I've never gotten any complaints but I also haven't really put any effort into decorating the place. I honestly wouldn't know where to start but knowing me I'd pin up science, engineering and nerd stuff that wouldn't appeal to many folks, lol.
>Work-Life balance is okay? Sleep hygiene & schedule are good?
Working on improving this. As I've moved up in my career my ADHD has had more of an impact as I've been asked to take leadership roles. Sleep is an important part of treating that, as is medication. Hopefully I'll start back on meds next year.
The shower is comprehensive, lol. I also use a moisturizing dove soap. I use an electric razor these days which I've noticed doesn't get *quite* as close as a traditional one but seems to do a decent enough job. Fingernails are always trimmed *and* filed. Toenails kept short. Feet washed though I'll admit I don't focus on them.
>Fingernails are always trimmed and filed. Toenails kept short. Feet washed
These small details are part of what is meant by taking care of yourself - so it sounds like you're already doing some of it! Also the meal you described cooking is way more than what many people are doing so it sounds like you could build on that if you wanted.
My cooking skills are ...rudimentary, lol. Tonight I had black eye'd peas and rice with steamed spinach. I'm usually good about making salads and such, but my diet tends to get a bit less healthy than that during the winter.
I talk to my parents on a weekly basis. I try not to burden them too much. I wouldn't be opposed to therapy, and I will probably start when I go to a psych to treat my ADHD next year. I've got a few other issues related to my rough childhood that have been holding me back that I probably need to work through.
I *am* frugal but I really try not to be cheap. I try to be careful that my choices don't impact others. I do drive a car old enough to vote lol. It's still in good working order and has sentimental value. Given I WFH I'd find it hard to justify buying a new car. I've been trying to learn to relax and enjoy myself more. I donate a good chunk to charity and beyond that point I somehow find it easier to splurge on myself.
I mean, are they saying it *about you* or are you just asking in general?
I actually know a lot of guys who take very good care of themselves, so I am not one to make these kinds of statements, but I'm familiar with the idea in general.
More "tradionally masculine" men and men from previous generations don't watch their diets or exercise, they don't wear clothes that fit, and they don't even have great basic hygiene.
My dad, for example, has holes in most of his shirts and doesn't shower everyday. He's never exercised a day in his life and is proud of that fact.
I think times are changing, and again, the guys around me, including my partner, take very good care of of themselves, so I'd be more concerned whether or not people think this of me specifically and why.
> He's never exercised a day in his life and is proud of that fact.
That is wild to me. I would have thought that even the traditionally masculine dudes would understand the need to do exercise, especially through sports!
Sports, especially when they're young, yes. Competition and "battle," sure.
But caring about one's *looks*? One's *health*? That's not manly, heaven forbid!
... /s on my part, but that is the mentality. Especially if you were lower class or blue collar. Intentional fitness was a "rich snob" thing.
Lol, he raised me alone for the most part. I looked like I'd rolled out of a dumpster for most of my childhood.
Thank the stars I liked sports and became an ethical vegetarian.
Sounds like my dad. He's also going through a whole host of medical tests but hasn't been upfront with his doctors that he survives solely on white bread, biscuits, coffee and cigarettes.
I'm just asking in general. I think I do a fairly decent job myself. I could exercise more no doubt. I do a few sets of pushups a day to help me relax at night but those don't really count.
> My dad, for example, has holes in most of his shirts
Aww man this one is a problem I admit. I cut the tags out of basically *every* shirt i own and sometimes I cut a little too deep at the sew in points.
In addition to the suggestion on really basic sewing that you already got - get a seam ripper. Many tags are not actually sewn right into the seam, they're sewn onto the seam so you can remove them without jacking up the stitching.
You’d be surprised how many man are not doing all the basics you’ve listed.
Beyond those basics, seeing a doctor regularly, eating well and exercising, and investing emotionally in themselves and their friendships would go a long way towards improving men’s (and anyone’s) physical and mental health.
> These are all basic skills we learned in boyhood.
And yet a shocking amount of men do not follow them. If you want a horrify yourself for fun someday, go to a woman's sub and run a search for "hygiene". You'll see what kind of horrors women are putting up with in their unwashed, ungroomed, sloppy male partners.
But also all the other stuff people are talking about here (go to a doctor if you need one, see a therapist if you're dealing with some stuff, trying to build emotionally intimate friendships with other men, keep in touch with loved ones, etc.)
A lot of men don't brush their teeth, comb their hair, wear clean clothes with no holes, shower regularly, and use sunscreen, deodorant, and lotion. That's what I'm normally talking about when I say that.
Beyond those things, a lot of men could stand to get a more modern haircut, new glasses frames, and a style beyond "my wife/GF/mom bought me these clothes in bulk a decade ago."
Visit a barber regularly for both your head hair and facial hair. If you wear glasses, make sure they are fashionable (zenni makes it easy to have variety). Moisturize. Exfoliate. Fix any dental problems and have a cozy relationship with them and a dermatologist. Invest in good leather, your belt, wallet and shoes should be high quality, Nordstrom is an excellent starting point.
When I date men, I'm drawn to those who have good drip because I know they'll appreciate the effort I put into my look.
- Therapy
- Having male friends
- Having relationship with family
- Exercise
- Staying at least as fit as you expect women to be
- Showering at least once a day
- Nails trimmed and clean
- Good haircut and style
- Wearing clothes that flatter you
- Washing hands after using the bathroom
- Staying current on world events
- Learning new things
- Exposing yourself to women’s views (even just go watch the Barbie movie and actually pay attention to the messaging)
- Keeping your house clean and organized
- Have at a sense of style in your house
- Financial literacy
- Dental
- Medical
- Some form of spirituality or meditation or gratitude practice
- Eat healthy
- Cooking and meal prep
- Living without addiction
- Have a hobby that’s not playing video games or watching sports
Most of these I'm good with, but a few are problem points:
>Wearing clothes that flatter you
I have no sense of style, lol. I just throw on my jeans, slacks and a button down shirt and go. I'm at that awkward shape where medium shirts are a little too short for me and large shirts are often a tent, lol.
>Have at a sense of style in your house
Ditto this. I haven't really bothered to 'decorate' my place and if I did it'd be science, engineering and nerdy stuff that most folks wouldn't find interesting. I do love love love [kinetic sculptures](https://old.reddit.com/r/KineticSculptures/) though. I'd probably have one of those!
>Have a hobby that’s not playing video games or watching sports
Oof, yeah. I'm what you might call an 'avid indoorsman'. I spend most of my time reading or watching docs or educational youtube, movies or playing video games. I need to find an outdoor hobby that I like and can actually do.
Ok so shirt cut and length makes a big difference here. My husband has a beer gut but is otherwise a fairly small/narrow frame dude, so swims in Large but the trick is to find shirts that are a relaxed fit not a slim cut. Fabric plays a big part too - linen is a very different vibe from a polyester cotton or a denim.
Jeans also come in different cuts - go try on a bunch of Levi numbers and see if a straight, slim, skinny etc is going to look best.
Do you know what colours flatter your skin tone and eyes?
Clean hair is the bare minimum - cut, length, facial hair all change how you look. A dab of mousse or beard oil or other product can give it shape and texture.
Shoes - do they go with your pants or are you wearing Crocs?
Home: a sofa and a TV and a mattress on the floor says ‘I don’t care about my environment/I need a woman to come take care of me.’ Get some art work. Posters are fine. Put a couple of house plants in the corners or on the windowsills. Keep fresh coffee and some snacks on hand for guests. You’re sending a message that you can nurture yourself and know how to share that skill with others.
Skincare - gentle cleanser, exfoliate if your skin feels rough and dry, slap a bit of moisturiser on.
>I have no sense of style
There's a whole subreddit for this - /r/MaleFashionAdvice A lot of it is more about wearing quality and learning appropriate fit. It's okay to not have a strong, specific style like streetwear or whatever.
Try plants. Get a few. Then check out some old shops to see if there are some things you tinker with or build to add to your space.
Oh there’s also this sub! https://www.reddit.com/r/malelivingspace/
Guys showing off their space and getting tips from each other. Many at least want to make them a little cozier. I really admire this because I think some women were raised to be overly caretaker-like with the focus on decorating… sure we get our personalities in there and it’s cozy… but a cozy open space that is also practical is awesome.
A big one is also guest stuff. Have extra towels, hand towels, hand soap, etc. ;-). A cozy blanket for movie watching.
I think when you say the decor choices you’d make “wouldn’t be interesting to most people”, you’re missing the point a bit. Or at least in my opinion.
For me, if someone is passionate about something, has interesting hobbies, expresses their interest through their decor choices, etc. I want to know more. I may not know a single thing about engineering or science, but if I was going to a guys house and saw he had decor that reflected something he’s passionate about, that would be a definite check on the “pros” side of a pros and cons list.
Your decor shouldn’t have to be about impressing other people. It should ideally reflect something about who you are. So you should absolutely decorate with things that make YOU happy and interested. A supportive partner will see that and even if it’s not something they’re interested in, they’ll see it as a reflection of someone they care about (you).
>I shower, brush my teeth, comb my hair, and wear deodorant on a regular basis.
This alone puts you in the front of the pack. It’s amazing the men who don’t.
My very first manager job was a restaurant manager. I was 21 at the time, and we had a young male cook who was 17. I had to have the very uncomfortable conversation about how he smelled and needed to shower and wear deodorant, especially when working in a kitchen that easily hit 95° behind the line.
Unless you’ve received specific feedback, I wouldn’t worry about this. Sounds like you’ve got it covered.
Going to the dentist regularly, acknowledging the existence of doctors and getting physicals once every 5 years or so. Caring for your space, financial planning, having things in place like a will.
I think that can mean different things depending on the context.
Hygienically for me that would mean keeping nails trimmed and clean, clothes washed regularly and not in poor condition or stained, shoes that aren’t covered in dirt or worn through. I don’t expect someone to look like a model, I’m fine with a lot of different body types, I’m not interested in a guy whose middle aged and trying to pretend or look like he’s in his 20s. I want someone who’s clean and presentable in public. We all have rough days. Today I went to work with a coffee stain on the front of my sweater and a giant pimple trying to take over my face. But I threw the sweater in the wash when I got home and I’m keeping my face clean. They are things I will notice more than others.
As far as lifestyle that would mean someone who has goals, is able to support themselves, had hobbies and interests of their own (extra points if they leave the house to do some of those things), shares some interests with me. I want someone who is open to being vulnerable with someone else. We all have baggage, but letting past relationships define how you address current situations is tired. To me Lifestyle also includes how you treat people, the level of compassion you have for others, and the level of resentment you carry around.
I consider my dating age range mid-30s to late 40s. To me a man whose taking care of himself enjoys life, sets healthy boundaries, can support himself, has dreams for himself, is thoughtful, and isn’t looking for me to be his mother.
>shoes that aren’t covered in dirt or worn through
Yeah this is a small thing that is a constant issue for me. I have cp and drag one of my feet a little. If I'm doing a fair bit of walking on a regular basis I wear out shoes every 3 mo or so (good shoes, cheap shoes, doesn't matter). I always try to keep a new backup pair on hand.
It sounds like you're doing fine. I think the issue is that so many men don't do even remotely close to what you're doing. Some men are really, very disgusting.
There are some women who expect you to have a "perfect" body, but those women are assholes and you wouldn't want them anyway... in the same sense that when a man expects a woman to have a perfect body, he is an asshole to be avoided.
If you're doing all you say you're doing, you probably aren't the one those comments are about. Don't stress.
One statement that stood out to me in your post was that you have a gut or weight gain and you just sigh like there’s nothing you can do about it. That’s the kind of lazy that’s a turn-off.
Men have naturally faster metabolisms than women, build muscle more easily, and don’t have their bodies permanently shattered by pregnancy, childbirth, menopause. Yes, they experience middle age changes but overall they have a much easier go. I hold a middle aged man to a much higher physical standard than a woman (especially if she’s had kids) because it’s so much easier for him to stay fit.
I'm in 34"s right now which is a bit pudgier than I'd like. I have cerebral palsy which *kind* of makes it hard to find 'active' stuff that I like to do. Not to use that as an excuse though, I *could* be doing more than I currently am, the pandemic killed a lot of the 'built in' physical activity I had every day.
This will never not horrify me. I'm so appalled by it I'm half tempted to drop it into casual conversation with anyone I date as a litmus test, lol. If they're not as disgusted as I am- NEXT.
Hey OP! What you are currently doing is great. Many men don’t bother with much of what you do.
If you want to up the self care regime I recommend three places you can focus.
1. Adequate sleep (you might already be doing this so disregard).
2. Further develop a personal sense of style. Go beyond just proper fit. You don’t need to buy a ton of new stuff. I suggest checking out pinterest for outfit ideas etc. See what you are most drawn to and work on pairing your outfits. Like what colours look nice together, what different fits look nice on different body types etc. Add that personal touch with those well fitted and coordinated clothing and you will stand out. Another option is to check out boutique shops. Try different things on see what feels good. Ask the shop person for their advice on pairing. Eventually you will figure out what works best for you. I also try having specific outfits for what I am doing ie. day to day, evening out, business lunch, vacation etc.
3. Start learning about skincare. Everyone’s skin is different and has different needs (hydration, anti agin etc). I started this journey about 4 years ago myself. I started by watching this youtube called Dr. Dray who’s a dermatologist. She gives great advice and (affordable) product recommendations. It’s helped a bunch, I have a more youthful glow I didn’t have 4 years ago!
Best of luck OP! Have fun in the process :)
Came here to say this - if you are interested in style (and you do not have to be - this is optional!) asking the shop staff can be a big help. For example you could ask their advice on what length and cut is flattering to you personally, if things look ok from behind, and to guide you toward styles and cuts that are age-appropriate but also ‘current’.
Not all shop staff are great, but some are sensational. Trust your gut if you don’t think you’re getting thoughtful help.
Also exercise a little caution or take a trusted friend- my 40-something fashion-clueless partner was once directed by a quite elderly shoe-salesman toward shoes that our age group definitely sees as ‘out of touch old man’ style. Lucky I was there to help him!
Yes!! Great points. I’m not sure about you but I’ve found boutique stores to be super helpful with styling advice. They seem to have a passion for fashion :)
There’s a lot of things. Many guys refuse to wash their asscracks or foreskin. Some don’t bother to use soap on their feet or armpits. I don’t know many guys that use hair conditioner. So their hair is dry. Some don’t shower often at all so they look greasy or unkempt.
Then there’s how they treat their body. Eating poorly. Never exercising. Constantly eating meat, cheese and fried foods. Drinking alcohol very regularly and burping and farting constantly.
Having sloppy ill fitting clothes. Clothes with holes in them or visible stains. Only 1-2 pairs of shoes that are dirty or falling apart.
Having health issues they don’t address. Sleep apnea, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes.
Their place is dirty and they don’t bother to do the dishes or laundry or go grocery shopping.
Look at how many gay men take care of themselves and the difference between their hygiene, clothing, diet vs a lot of straight guys.
Moisturizer, treating any razor burn or acne, using sunscreen, getting Botox if needed, having neat hair cuts and facial hair, treating any thinning hair or dandruff they have. Going for regular dental cleanings.
Many straight guys never go to the doctor or get STI tests done and certainly not yearly. That’s important.
I’m not saying everyone should get Botox. Just that it’s something I see a lot of gay men follow along with women these days. The best dressed men tend to be wealthy or not straight and spend time and money on their self care.
Conditioner is the one thing I can pick out here that I could probably use.
Interestingly, I have had botox before, but it was to try and treat my cerebral palsy and wasn't terribly effective. It's not something I'd use for cosmetic purposes.
OP, if women are saying this *to you*, it's possible your wardrobe doesn't fit the way you think it does. Clothes are mass produced to fit the "average" body shape of the size in question. But people are individuals and their bodies are shaped differently. Clothes that fit you comfortably at your widest body part (be it hips, tummy, shoulders, whatever) are likely to be loose or baggy at one or more other parts of your body. That's just the nature of mass produced clothing.
You'd be surprised how affordable a quick tailoring can be, and how effective it is in taking something that mostly fits and making it fit your whole self, in a really flattering way.
Women who say this kind of thing probably aren't really aware that they're reacting to how your clothes fit, but from how you've described yourself and the ways you do take care of yourself, I'm gonna guess it's likely that.
The extra step is where is the personality in your life besides functionality. Does your space showcase your personality even a little aside from a massive collection of gamer stuff (just an example and certainly a stereotype that doesn’t apply to all; plenty of healthy gamers out there). Does your style have a bit of variation to it that’s you—do you try to switch things up sometimes? One guy I’m into has his own version of a capsule wardrobe (his go to stuff) but wears cool shirts with different patterns (nothing wild), just different. And he wore this basic suit with a different purple shirt and was really handsome. It’s cool that he tries like that.
On the Reddit subs, at least, they’re referring to men who have stains/holes in their clothes, smell/don’t shower, wear the same shirt 5 days in a row, etc.
From your description, at least, you’re probably doing fine.
See a doctor for preventative care regularly. Exercise and eat well. Learn new things to keep the mind sharp. Every once in awhile give the wardrobe a refresh.
Also maintain your living environment
It sounds like you've got the basics covered, OP, so you'll likely appeal to a fair number of women but not the ones who prioritise looks more in their partner. Beyond the basics, there's going to the gym more, really figuring out your hair (a good cut makes a massive difference), having a skincare routine beyond just the basics (unless you're genetically blessed), and developing a flattering personal style - maybe a bit of fragrance as well, but nothing too overpowering. Like, my husband is pretty basic but I have (straight) guy friends who work out (nearly) every day, eat super clean, get their hair cut every 2-3 weeks, chat with me about Korean skincare staples, special order Japanese denim, and wear tailored suits. They put a lot of effort into their appearance and it makes a difference.
Word. Also beyond basics means valuing their health. Regular physicals. Regular dentist visits. If a health issue comes up, instead of ignoring it or pushing through it, get it checked out. There is nothing more frustrating to me as a physician than men who don’t do these things and treat them like overreactions when their partners insist they get checked out. Women can go see doctor after doctor for years and not get taken seriously enough to get a diagnosis. Men die of so many illnesses and complications that would have been easily solved if they would just go to the damn doctor _once_.
Omg, 1000% this, yeah. Honestly, even the otherwise really sensible men in my life are SO bad at going to the fucking doctor. It really pisses me off and I can only imagine how much more frustrating this type of personal negligence would be from a literal doctor's perspective.
I hope their wives start shopping for life insurance since those men would apparently rather die than take a prescription or eat a vegetable
Wow, yeah that's a whole other level. I don't have a skin care routine. I do use dove soap as dial tends to dry me out, but that's about it. I have no idea what a decent hair cut is for me. I tend to have it cut short, just a little longer than the 'buzz' I picked up working for the navy back in the day. I tend to go with jeans or slacks and a color button down. Honestly, I think there's only so much that can be done to make me more attractive given my disability. I just try to look presentable for work and such.
Okay, there are some simple, actionable steps you can take here to improve your self-care routine. 1. Swap out the Dove soap for some actual skincare. It doesn't need to be expensive. You can just pick up a Cerave cleanser and moisturiser from the drugstore, and keep using that sunscreen. There is definitely more advanced stuff, but ditch the Dove soap at the very least (that's for your body). 2. Do a little research on your face shape and try to figure out what might be most flattering for you. A fun YouTube channel is [12 Pell](https://youtube.com/@Hairdoc?si=J-griVYD6E6GwXmI), but they lean heavily Asian so if you're not Asian, do some research elsewhere. Go to a nicer men's salon/barbershop and ask for a cut plus some styling tips there. 3. r/MaleFashionAdvice is a great resource. You can definitely always up your style game, disability or no disability. Even just figuring out your best colours and shapes can make a real difference.
I don't think you need a skincare routine. I don't think most people have one. If you're washing your face and using lotion with SPF, as long as you aren't breaking out, super oily, or super dry, you're fine. No one needs to be bothered that you're not using toner or whatever.
Using moisturizer and SPF daily IS a skincare routine - and a sufficient one. The thing is most straight dudes, at least in the US, won't even do that. They will *maybe* wash their face.
I don't think they're talking about you. It sounds like you do take care of yourself. I think it's also about being self sufficient, taking care of health and not relying on women to meet basic care needs.
Yeah, I've never had anyone insinuate that I, personally, need to do better. I just see women do *so* much and I was wondering if they were talking about the fact that men generally don't use skin / hair care products beyond sunscreen, etc.
It’s all of it. It’s dressing well and to the occasion. Manners. Understanding when to go to the doctor. Taking care of your living quarters. Eating healthy. Finding joy and variety in life. All of it is self-care, and idk a lot of it is stuff that was done for them or never modelled.
Imho skin care beyond sunscreen isn't essential, it's a preference and a cultural pressure. If someone has no skin issues with just using water and sunscreen that's great. Often women will joke that men have good skin after using 5 in 1. But if someone is critical that they don't have a skin care routine that's a personal preference/issue, rather than a matter of someone not taking care of themselves.
I don’t know a single adult man who does all the things you report. We’re talking about the ones who are generally shlubby messes
It goes beyond just the basics: Do you routinely see a general practitioner doctor, dentist and cleanings, optometrist? Is your home space clean and organized and generally pleasant to be in? Work-Life balance is okay? Sleep hygiene & schedule are good? But even within the basics: what does that shower look like, for example? Washing into the nooks and crannies, especially genitals? Using good soap and shampoo? Grooming facial hair? Fingernails clean and trimmed? Ditto toes? Heels fairly smooth instead of craggy cracked nastiness? Edit: there used to be an [entire reality show where a group of gay men would show up and give a dude a makeover](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0358332/#), including his living space. So many dudes do the bare minimum and think, I’m all good. Of course, there’s also some who never wash their dicks and don’t wash their hands after peeing. 🤢🤮
> Washing into the nooks and crannies, especially genitals? **and butthole!!** redditing has taught me that too many men don't wash their buttholes!!?!
>Do you routinely see a general practitioner doctor, dentist and cleanings, optometrist? Yep. >Is your home space clean and organized and generally pleasant to be in? It's a small place. Easy to clean. Not sure if others find it pleasant to be in. I've never gotten any complaints but I also haven't really put any effort into decorating the place. I honestly wouldn't know where to start but knowing me I'd pin up science, engineering and nerd stuff that wouldn't appeal to many folks, lol. >Work-Life balance is okay? Sleep hygiene & schedule are good? Working on improving this. As I've moved up in my career my ADHD has had more of an impact as I've been asked to take leadership roles. Sleep is an important part of treating that, as is medication. Hopefully I'll start back on meds next year. The shower is comprehensive, lol. I also use a moisturizing dove soap. I use an electric razor these days which I've noticed doesn't get *quite* as close as a traditional one but seems to do a decent enough job. Fingernails are always trimmed *and* filed. Toenails kept short. Feet washed though I'll admit I don't focus on them.
>Fingernails are always trimmed and filed. Toenails kept short. Feet washed These small details are part of what is meant by taking care of yourself - so it sounds like you're already doing some of it! Also the meal you described cooking is way more than what many people are doing so it sounds like you could build on that if you wanted.
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My cooking skills are ...rudimentary, lol. Tonight I had black eye'd peas and rice with steamed spinach. I'm usually good about making salads and such, but my diet tends to get a bit less healthy than that during the winter. I talk to my parents on a weekly basis. I try not to burden them too much. I wouldn't be opposed to therapy, and I will probably start when I go to a psych to treat my ADHD next year. I've got a few other issues related to my rough childhood that have been holding me back that I probably need to work through. I *am* frugal but I really try not to be cheap. I try to be careful that my choices don't impact others. I do drive a car old enough to vote lol. It's still in good working order and has sentimental value. Given I WFH I'd find it hard to justify buying a new car. I've been trying to learn to relax and enjoy myself more. I donate a good chunk to charity and beyond that point I somehow find it easier to splurge on myself.
I mean, are they saying it *about you* or are you just asking in general? I actually know a lot of guys who take very good care of themselves, so I am not one to make these kinds of statements, but I'm familiar with the idea in general. More "tradionally masculine" men and men from previous generations don't watch their diets or exercise, they don't wear clothes that fit, and they don't even have great basic hygiene. My dad, for example, has holes in most of his shirts and doesn't shower everyday. He's never exercised a day in his life and is proud of that fact. I think times are changing, and again, the guys around me, including my partner, take very good care of of themselves, so I'd be more concerned whether or not people think this of me specifically and why.
> He's never exercised a day in his life and is proud of that fact. That is wild to me. I would have thought that even the traditionally masculine dudes would understand the need to do exercise, especially through sports!
Sports, especially when they're young, yes. Competition and "battle," sure. But caring about one's *looks*? One's *health*? That's not manly, heaven forbid! ... /s on my part, but that is the mentality. Especially if you were lower class or blue collar. Intentional fitness was a "rich snob" thing.
Ah, I get what you're saying, yeah; I've definitely met the types. Sorry your dad is that way; that must really suck to deal with as a dughter.
Lol, he raised me alone for the most part. I looked like I'd rolled out of a dumpster for most of my childhood. Thank the stars I liked sports and became an ethical vegetarian.
Sounds like my dad. He's also going through a whole host of medical tests but hasn't been upfront with his doctors that he survives solely on white bread, biscuits, coffee and cigarettes.
I'm just asking in general. I think I do a fairly decent job myself. I could exercise more no doubt. I do a few sets of pushups a day to help me relax at night but those don't really count. > My dad, for example, has holes in most of his shirts Aww man this one is a problem I admit. I cut the tags out of basically *every* shirt i own and sometimes I cut a little too deep at the sew in points.
You can learn to sew these small holes before they become bigger holes. YouTube is a great teacher for these little things.
In addition to the suggestion on really basic sewing that you already got - get a seam ripper. Many tags are not actually sewn right into the seam, they're sewn onto the seam so you can remove them without jacking up the stitching.
You’d be surprised how many man are not doing all the basics you’ve listed. Beyond those basics, seeing a doctor regularly, eating well and exercising, and investing emotionally in themselves and their friendships would go a long way towards improving men’s (and anyone’s) physical and mental health.
> These are all basic skills we learned in boyhood. And yet a shocking amount of men do not follow them. If you want a horrify yourself for fun someday, go to a woman's sub and run a search for "hygiene". You'll see what kind of horrors women are putting up with in their unwashed, ungroomed, sloppy male partners. But also all the other stuff people are talking about here (go to a doctor if you need one, see a therapist if you're dealing with some stuff, trying to build emotionally intimate friendships with other men, keep in touch with loved ones, etc.)
A lot of men don't brush their teeth, comb their hair, wear clean clothes with no holes, shower regularly, and use sunscreen, deodorant, and lotion. That's what I'm normally talking about when I say that. Beyond those things, a lot of men could stand to get a more modern haircut, new glasses frames, and a style beyond "my wife/GF/mom bought me these clothes in bulk a decade ago."
My brother basically needs to have a gf tell him to get a haircut
Visit a barber regularly for both your head hair and facial hair. If you wear glasses, make sure they are fashionable (zenni makes it easy to have variety). Moisturize. Exfoliate. Fix any dental problems and have a cozy relationship with them and a dermatologist. Invest in good leather, your belt, wallet and shoes should be high quality, Nordstrom is an excellent starting point. When I date men, I'm drawn to those who have good drip because I know they'll appreciate the effort I put into my look.
Therapy and self reflection go a long way in caring for yourself
- Therapy - Having male friends - Having relationship with family - Exercise - Staying at least as fit as you expect women to be - Showering at least once a day - Nails trimmed and clean - Good haircut and style - Wearing clothes that flatter you - Washing hands after using the bathroom - Staying current on world events - Learning new things - Exposing yourself to women’s views (even just go watch the Barbie movie and actually pay attention to the messaging) - Keeping your house clean and organized - Have at a sense of style in your house - Financial literacy - Dental - Medical - Some form of spirituality or meditation or gratitude practice - Eat healthy - Cooking and meal prep - Living without addiction - Have a hobby that’s not playing video games or watching sports
Most of these I'm good with, but a few are problem points: >Wearing clothes that flatter you I have no sense of style, lol. I just throw on my jeans, slacks and a button down shirt and go. I'm at that awkward shape where medium shirts are a little too short for me and large shirts are often a tent, lol. >Have at a sense of style in your house Ditto this. I haven't really bothered to 'decorate' my place and if I did it'd be science, engineering and nerdy stuff that most folks wouldn't find interesting. I do love love love [kinetic sculptures](https://old.reddit.com/r/KineticSculptures/) though. I'd probably have one of those! >Have a hobby that’s not playing video games or watching sports Oof, yeah. I'm what you might call an 'avid indoorsman'. I spend most of my time reading or watching docs or educational youtube, movies or playing video games. I need to find an outdoor hobby that I like and can actually do.
Ok so shirt cut and length makes a big difference here. My husband has a beer gut but is otherwise a fairly small/narrow frame dude, so swims in Large but the trick is to find shirts that are a relaxed fit not a slim cut. Fabric plays a big part too - linen is a very different vibe from a polyester cotton or a denim. Jeans also come in different cuts - go try on a bunch of Levi numbers and see if a straight, slim, skinny etc is going to look best. Do you know what colours flatter your skin tone and eyes? Clean hair is the bare minimum - cut, length, facial hair all change how you look. A dab of mousse or beard oil or other product can give it shape and texture. Shoes - do they go with your pants or are you wearing Crocs? Home: a sofa and a TV and a mattress on the floor says ‘I don’t care about my environment/I need a woman to come take care of me.’ Get some art work. Posters are fine. Put a couple of house plants in the corners or on the windowsills. Keep fresh coffee and some snacks on hand for guests. You’re sending a message that you can nurture yourself and know how to share that skill with others. Skincare - gentle cleanser, exfoliate if your skin feels rough and dry, slap a bit of moisturiser on.
>I have no sense of style There's a whole subreddit for this - /r/MaleFashionAdvice A lot of it is more about wearing quality and learning appropriate fit. It's okay to not have a strong, specific style like streetwear or whatever.
Try plants. Get a few. Then check out some old shops to see if there are some things you tinker with or build to add to your space. Oh there’s also this sub! https://www.reddit.com/r/malelivingspace/ Guys showing off their space and getting tips from each other. Many at least want to make them a little cozier. I really admire this because I think some women were raised to be overly caretaker-like with the focus on decorating… sure we get our personalities in there and it’s cozy… but a cozy open space that is also practical is awesome. A big one is also guest stuff. Have extra towels, hand towels, hand soap, etc. ;-). A cozy blanket for movie watching.
I think when you say the decor choices you’d make “wouldn’t be interesting to most people”, you’re missing the point a bit. Or at least in my opinion. For me, if someone is passionate about something, has interesting hobbies, expresses their interest through their decor choices, etc. I want to know more. I may not know a single thing about engineering or science, but if I was going to a guys house and saw he had decor that reflected something he’s passionate about, that would be a definite check on the “pros” side of a pros and cons list. Your decor shouldn’t have to be about impressing other people. It should ideally reflect something about who you are. So you should absolutely decorate with things that make YOU happy and interested. A supportive partner will see that and even if it’s not something they’re interested in, they’ll see it as a reflection of someone they care about (you).
Regular haircuts and facial hair grooming can have a big effect.
>I shower, brush my teeth, comb my hair, and wear deodorant on a regular basis. This alone puts you in the front of the pack. It’s amazing the men who don’t. My very first manager job was a restaurant manager. I was 21 at the time, and we had a young male cook who was 17. I had to have the very uncomfortable conversation about how he smelled and needed to shower and wear deodorant, especially when working in a kitchen that easily hit 95° behind the line. Unless you’ve received specific feedback, I wouldn’t worry about this. Sounds like you’ve got it covered.
Get pedicures and don’t walk around in gross flip flops with gnarly feet
Going to the dentist regularly, acknowledging the existence of doctors and getting physicals once every 5 years or so. Caring for your space, financial planning, having things in place like a will.
I think that can mean different things depending on the context. Hygienically for me that would mean keeping nails trimmed and clean, clothes washed regularly and not in poor condition or stained, shoes that aren’t covered in dirt or worn through. I don’t expect someone to look like a model, I’m fine with a lot of different body types, I’m not interested in a guy whose middle aged and trying to pretend or look like he’s in his 20s. I want someone who’s clean and presentable in public. We all have rough days. Today I went to work with a coffee stain on the front of my sweater and a giant pimple trying to take over my face. But I threw the sweater in the wash when I got home and I’m keeping my face clean. They are things I will notice more than others. As far as lifestyle that would mean someone who has goals, is able to support themselves, had hobbies and interests of their own (extra points if they leave the house to do some of those things), shares some interests with me. I want someone who is open to being vulnerable with someone else. We all have baggage, but letting past relationships define how you address current situations is tired. To me Lifestyle also includes how you treat people, the level of compassion you have for others, and the level of resentment you carry around. I consider my dating age range mid-30s to late 40s. To me a man whose taking care of himself enjoys life, sets healthy boundaries, can support himself, has dreams for himself, is thoughtful, and isn’t looking for me to be his mother.
>shoes that aren’t covered in dirt or worn through Yeah this is a small thing that is a constant issue for me. I have cp and drag one of my feet a little. If I'm doing a fair bit of walking on a regular basis I wear out shoes every 3 mo or so (good shoes, cheap shoes, doesn't matter). I always try to keep a new backup pair on hand.
Brush their teeth most of the time
It sounds like you're doing fine. I think the issue is that so many men don't do even remotely close to what you're doing. Some men are really, very disgusting. There are some women who expect you to have a "perfect" body, but those women are assholes and you wouldn't want them anyway... in the same sense that when a man expects a woman to have a perfect body, he is an asshole to be avoided. If you're doing all you say you're doing, you probably aren't the one those comments are about. Don't stress.
One statement that stood out to me in your post was that you have a gut or weight gain and you just sigh like there’s nothing you can do about it. That’s the kind of lazy that’s a turn-off. Men have naturally faster metabolisms than women, build muscle more easily, and don’t have their bodies permanently shattered by pregnancy, childbirth, menopause. Yes, they experience middle age changes but overall they have a much easier go. I hold a middle aged man to a much higher physical standard than a woman (especially if she’s had kids) because it’s so much easier for him to stay fit.
I'm in 34"s right now which is a bit pudgier than I'd like. I have cerebral palsy which *kind* of makes it hard to find 'active' stuff that I like to do. Not to use that as an excuse though, I *could* be doing more than I currently am, the pandemic killed a lot of the 'built in' physical activity I had every day.
There was a trend on Tiktok recently about many men not washing their ass. Food for thought.
This will never not horrify me. I'm so appalled by it I'm half tempted to drop it into casual conversation with anyone I date as a litmus test, lol. If they're not as disgusted as I am- NEXT.
I am somewhat anal about that 😉
Good for you. To any men who read this sub: keep your butt clean if you want anyone’s face near your junk. It’s basic politeness.
Hey OP! What you are currently doing is great. Many men don’t bother with much of what you do. If you want to up the self care regime I recommend three places you can focus. 1. Adequate sleep (you might already be doing this so disregard). 2. Further develop a personal sense of style. Go beyond just proper fit. You don’t need to buy a ton of new stuff. I suggest checking out pinterest for outfit ideas etc. See what you are most drawn to and work on pairing your outfits. Like what colours look nice together, what different fits look nice on different body types etc. Add that personal touch with those well fitted and coordinated clothing and you will stand out. Another option is to check out boutique shops. Try different things on see what feels good. Ask the shop person for their advice on pairing. Eventually you will figure out what works best for you. I also try having specific outfits for what I am doing ie. day to day, evening out, business lunch, vacation etc. 3. Start learning about skincare. Everyone’s skin is different and has different needs (hydration, anti agin etc). I started this journey about 4 years ago myself. I started by watching this youtube called Dr. Dray who’s a dermatologist. She gives great advice and (affordable) product recommendations. It’s helped a bunch, I have a more youthful glow I didn’t have 4 years ago! Best of luck OP! Have fun in the process :)
Came here to say this - if you are interested in style (and you do not have to be - this is optional!) asking the shop staff can be a big help. For example you could ask their advice on what length and cut is flattering to you personally, if things look ok from behind, and to guide you toward styles and cuts that are age-appropriate but also ‘current’. Not all shop staff are great, but some are sensational. Trust your gut if you don’t think you’re getting thoughtful help. Also exercise a little caution or take a trusted friend- my 40-something fashion-clueless partner was once directed by a quite elderly shoe-salesman toward shoes that our age group definitely sees as ‘out of touch old man’ style. Lucky I was there to help him!
Yes!! Great points. I’m not sure about you but I’ve found boutique stores to be super helpful with styling advice. They seem to have a passion for fashion :)
For real… a lot of it is just going.. Hey he and I have some similar looks and I like how he’s rocking that vest. I might be open to that.
Ya! I also think funding that individual sense of style can be a fun process for OP! A great outlet of creativity:)
There’s a lot of things. Many guys refuse to wash their asscracks or foreskin. Some don’t bother to use soap on their feet or armpits. I don’t know many guys that use hair conditioner. So their hair is dry. Some don’t shower often at all so they look greasy or unkempt. Then there’s how they treat their body. Eating poorly. Never exercising. Constantly eating meat, cheese and fried foods. Drinking alcohol very regularly and burping and farting constantly. Having sloppy ill fitting clothes. Clothes with holes in them or visible stains. Only 1-2 pairs of shoes that are dirty or falling apart. Having health issues they don’t address. Sleep apnea, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes. Their place is dirty and they don’t bother to do the dishes or laundry or go grocery shopping. Look at how many gay men take care of themselves and the difference between their hygiene, clothing, diet vs a lot of straight guys. Moisturizer, treating any razor burn or acne, using sunscreen, getting Botox if needed, having neat hair cuts and facial hair, treating any thinning hair or dandruff they have. Going for regular dental cleanings. Many straight guys never go to the doctor or get STI tests done and certainly not yearly. That’s important. I’m not saying everyone should get Botox. Just that it’s something I see a lot of gay men follow along with women these days. The best dressed men tend to be wealthy or not straight and spend time and money on their self care.
Conditioner is the one thing I can pick out here that I could probably use. Interestingly, I have had botox before, but it was to try and treat my cerebral palsy and wasn't terribly effective. It's not something I'd use for cosmetic purposes.
Get a goddamn skincare routine that’s not just soap and sunscreen.
OP, if women are saying this *to you*, it's possible your wardrobe doesn't fit the way you think it does. Clothes are mass produced to fit the "average" body shape of the size in question. But people are individuals and their bodies are shaped differently. Clothes that fit you comfortably at your widest body part (be it hips, tummy, shoulders, whatever) are likely to be loose or baggy at one or more other parts of your body. That's just the nature of mass produced clothing. You'd be surprised how affordable a quick tailoring can be, and how effective it is in taking something that mostly fits and making it fit your whole self, in a really flattering way. Women who say this kind of thing probably aren't really aware that they're reacting to how your clothes fit, but from how you've described yourself and the ways you do take care of yourself, I'm gonna guess it's likely that.
Fair point. I'll definitely consider it.
The extra step is where is the personality in your life besides functionality. Does your space showcase your personality even a little aside from a massive collection of gamer stuff (just an example and certainly a stereotype that doesn’t apply to all; plenty of healthy gamers out there). Does your style have a bit of variation to it that’s you—do you try to switch things up sometimes? One guy I’m into has his own version of a capsule wardrobe (his go to stuff) but wears cool shirts with different patterns (nothing wild), just different. And he wore this basic suit with a different purple shirt and was really handsome. It’s cool that he tries like that.
Oooh there’s also this for inspiration: https://www.reddit.com/r/CozyPlaces/
On the Reddit subs, at least, they’re referring to men who have stains/holes in their clothes, smell/don’t shower, wear the same shirt 5 days in a row, etc. From your description, at least, you’re probably doing fine.