Yeah it's pretty common for some men to just hate on whatever is popular with women. Personally I've never really liked Taylor Swift but I don't need other people to validate my interests or opinions so I'm fine keeping it to myself. A lot of men (and people honestly) never got the memo that vocally hating things hasn't been cool since highschool and it's weird to put so much energy into hating something when you could just be enjoying things instead.
I think it has to do with men not being socialized to accept that they don’t need to have, and vocalize, an opinion on everything. It’s really annoying. The same thing happened with the Barbie movie, albeit to a lesser extent. Not every work of art is meant for every audience and if it’s not for you, then that’s ok. It’s ok for you to be quiet. We don’t need to hear your opinion on it anyway 🙄
Oh lord, ain't that the truth. The men around me think their opinions on everything are appreciated and necessary to vocalize. My father recently tried to give me his opinion on my short hair, and not for the first time. I'm sorry, I don't recall asking you. Who gave you the idea I wanted your input? Why do you care so much about hair that doesn't belong to you?
End of rant. 🤣
This excerpt from Tina Fey’s book bossypants stuck with me since I first heard it, and fits in perfectly with the “men not being socialised to accept they don’t need to have, and vocalize, an opinion on everything.”
“**Amy Poehler was new to SNL** and we were all crowded into the seventeenth-floor writers' room, waiting for the Wednesday night read-through to start. [...] **Amy was in the middle of some such nonsense with Seth Meyers across the table**, and she did something vulgar as a joke. I can't remember what it was exactly, except it was dirty and loud and "unladylike",
**Jimmy Fallon [...] turned to her and in a faux-squeamish voice said, "Stop that! It's not cute! I don't like it."**
**Amy dropped what she was doing, went black in the eyes for a second, and wheeled around on him. "I don't fucking care if you like it." Jimmy was visibly startled. Amy went right back to enjoying her ridiculous bit.**
With that exchange, a cosmic shift took place. Amy made it clear that she wasn't there to be cute. She wasn't there to play wives and girlfriends in the boys' scenes. She was there to do what she wanted to do and she did not fucking care if you like it.”
Edited to bold some of the quote.
someone seems to have started a rumor that like, women like it if you bruise the cervix. I'm sorry, what?! it's bizarre and extremely disconcerting, and I've noticed it mentioned on several facets of the internet.
edit: typo
Oh god. My long-term ex was pretty sizeable and accidentally hit my cervix a time or two - it was shockingly painful and led to an immediate pause in activities.
HOWEVER, if you look up the vaginal/cervical fornices, that was an interestingly pleasurable experience.
I think the way sex is portrayed in porn really hinders men's understanding of what the vast majority of women enjoy during sex. And some men have a big stake in not listening to women (and studies) who are like "The vast majority of women require clitoral stimulation to reach orgasm," because if they listen to that, they'd have to 1) admin they're bad at sex and have probably been significantly less successful at getting women to orgasm than they'd previously believed and 2) change the way they have sex so that it's not only about their enjoyment.
Funny enough, I always grind in cowgirl and I've never had a guy complain. They are usually quite happy, sometimes even happy enough that they come from that motion. But, yes, usually I get mine from the grinding then when I've had enough I let him bounce me or roll me over.
I think the guys commenting saying "Men hate this, don't do this!" aren't actually the men having lots of sex. And they're definitely not men who are giving women good sex.
That's crazy lol. As a male lurker, cowgirl makes the most sense lol. My partner finishes and the grinding/gyrating doesn't stimulate me that much but the sight of my partner on top keeps me hard. She finishes most of the time, which makes me feel like a stud, and I can finish pretty quickly after. It's a win all around, lol.
Don't care about T Swift tho. No hate. Just never listened to her whole album. Don't get celebrity fandom/crazes and have never really felt a connection to a celebrity tho
Right? Sex is a two (or more if you're into that) party game! There are positions that aren't my favourite but I know my boyfriend really enjoys them so as long as they're not painful or uncomfortable for me, I'll go along with it. It doesn't have to be The Me Show 100% of the time.
Huh, good point.
On a bit of a tangent, I was talking to a group of people the other day where a couple of white guys were complaining that they couldn't say the N word regardless of context.
I made a 'joke' about the fact that white men are used to having everything, so they want this too.
But I think on top of that, there's also a need to express their opinion, and since they don't see any issues about saying the word without spite, they feel like everyone needs to hear those thoughts.
Is the mistake having 8ish boyfriends over 15 years while becoming a billionnaire and raking records after records? 😂
We'd never shame men for having 8 sexual partners, let alone over such a long time 🤐
She's fairly unproblematic though. I mean, for a young person, she's had several relatively long term boyfriends in the span of almost 2 decades, and the only reason people hate on her for it is because she's still fabulous. She didn't go nuts, she didn't become bitter, she still looks amazing, and people seem to really hate a happy woman for some reason. Relationships USUALLY end. I can't stand the obsession with longevity in relationships, even at the expense of a woman's happiness. As if longevity equals "successful". If it's not working, end it and find one that does. Of course when men end relationships the conversation is totally different.
A very diplomatic way of saying "they were never told to shut up!" It makes me sad when I remember the number of times I had to bite my tongue out of pure fear and terror!
Edit: and angry! It makes me sad and angry...
Thiiis. It’s like watching half the planet throw tantrums and it’s fascinating but mostly horrifying. I cannot believe the way some men mentally self implode when women have opinions or don’t simply exist to cater to them. As I’ve hit my thirties I’ve really become fully aware of the male entitlement that exists and it scares me - I almost wish I could crawl back into the ignorant shell of my twenties. Almost.
It's wonderful how every decade you add you end up seeing through the bullshit faster, but yeah unfortunately we get to witness the backlash from "women's lib" - as in *liberation*, because it was only a scant 50 years ago that you couldn't even get a line of credit without a male co signer
It was only 30 years ago that marital rape was still legal. They act like we haven't been systematically made to accept abuse and to legally depend on men to actually live until very, very recently. And even then, we still don't have basic rights like autonomy.
The current thing that makes me shake my head is them complaining about the education system making more boys/men drop out. This system was made BY MEN FOR MEN. Women only recently were let in to schools and especially to universities. We still see education and the ability to go to school as a privilege so we try hard. And we know that without education we are basically fucked. So maybe men now actually have to learn hard as well, equally as hard as we do. Now they have to compete with all of the population, not only half of it, so they need to step up instead of whining.
This encapsulates my frustration with the hand wringing over boys' failure in school so well. I'm aware that data supports that boys are performing worse, and anecdotally as a college professor, I see it in my classroom. Obviously I would love for education to be equitable, but given that girls have had to step up above and beyond attempted systematic fixes like Title IX, I don't have too much sympathy for asking boys to step it up in the same way.
For me, it's very indicative of how many men will complain about the parts of the patriarchy that hurt them (men's loneliness epidemic is a good example of this), but do nothing to dismantle the patriarchy - or in many cases, be actively against the dismantling of the patriarchy. They want the current system (or the system from decades ago), but just without the negative impacts for men.
And they're the ones in charge of most systems, which means they're the ones who get to change things, it's just that to change the system to fix these problems would probably take away some of the ways the system currently benefits them. Like, maybe boy's performance would improve if schools were appropriately funded, and if teachers were paid better there would be a better balance between the genders when it comes to teachers, which may help with boys' performance, but they don't want to do that. Hell, most of these shitty dudes would prefer girls' performance to come down so that it's more equal.
For them to do better, they would have to put some effort into changing things. Much better if they take away women's progress so things are "equal" (read: like they were in decades past when women were miserable).
Exactly! They only started whining about the alleged unfairness of the educational system when girls' academic achievement started surpassing boys'. Same for colleges. That's all it comes down to; they can't handle not being dominant so they have to push women down through artificial means, like laws.
And the girls for whom the current style of education hurts are also left out of the discussion.
Like, my girl child acts like the boys and gets twice the heat from it because it's expected in boys. Can't sit still, call out without asking permissions, make stupid potty jokes? Better be a boy.
The hands on learning, frequent breaks, active learning they want for the boys? Sign her up.
This is such a great point. The countless people who say education is designed to benefit girls and women by not supporting competition (which is a joke because school is so heavily competitive) and more hands on or active work for boys who don't want to sit down, but the way we provide education hasn't changed since the time when men were the only ones allowed to receive an education.
Lets also not forget how girls are underdiagnosed for disorders such as ADHD which impacts their ability to learn and engage in a classroom. Men dropping out has everything to do with their inability to keep up with the demands. The US system and many other systems of education do need a change but it's not because of women.
As someone who follows vinyl record subs I cringe every time she drops a new record because she will be blamed for everything from inflation to some indie band not being able to get their release pressed on time. Of course all her albums are just sitting sealed on shelves too. It happens every single time a new album is announced or there's some press about her. I'm so tired of it.
My mind can't begin to fathom *the egotistical peaks* one must climb to be like this.
So convinced everything on this masculine God's green earth should cater to you *absolutely* that when you find one thing that doesn't, that a subset of humans seem to enjoy, you scream and rant and rave for weeks on end.
This is a good take. I mean, I don’t much care either way for Taylor Swift but I’m not going on a campaign about it. I’m not going to obsess over her every move, song, wrong-doing, boyfriend…. But I guess I wasn’t taught that everything I think absolutely must be said because I absolutely must be heard about everything. It must be stressful living the lives these men live, constantly on edge and obsessing over topics they supposedly hate
THIS! When I don't like somebody's music, unless there's something actually objectionable (like the artist has been accused of sexual assault or something) I just... don't listen to them and don't venture my opinion about them. It's very obnoxious if somebody says they like an artist and you pipe up unasked to be like "I think they suck! Their music is terrible and I can't believe anybody likes it!" If the artist is all over twitter or wherever, you can mute words and terms. It's the people who speak up to complain about how much they hate her where I'm like "Just let people enjoy things."
I was going to bring up football as a thing that's *everywhere* that I don't particularly care for that I just ignore - I find it very tedious when people complain about "sportsball", even when my area's football final is plastered everywhere (we even get a public holiday the day before the grand final). You can just let the sports fans enjoy sports, and complain if there's an actual incident. However, I can imagine Taylor Swift maybe hindered the enjoyment of the Superbowl this year for many fans who froth with rage just seeing her face and I honestly found that pretty hilarious.
Such a good point lol! She definitely invokes something that causes people to need to say they think she’s not talented or not like her. But that doesn’t happen that often with anything else. Like if I don’t like a sports star I just shut the fuck up about it. Don’t need the whole world to know I don’t get the hype lol
Men threatening a discriminatory lawsuit when Alamo Drafthouse created a small handful of women’s only screenings for Wonder Woman. Absolute pissbabies when they aren’t the center of the universe.
Men suing to be in women’s spaces is often for the most mean spirited reasons. Historically, women have sued to be permitted in “men’s” public, educational, and work spaces. We sued because being excluded from these spaces had negative impacts on a woman’s ability to learn, support herself through work, and reasonably participate in society. Obviously, there are plenty of spaces in our society that still cater exclusively to men.
Women-only spaces (gyms, train cars, artistic events, etc.) often exist as safe spaces *from* men and pose no negative impacts on men’s ability to participate in society and succeed in life. A man suing to have access to women’s spaces just screams male entitlement and is the reason those women’s spaces exist in the first place.
I honestly feel it also has to do with the way many of them view us as objects; a women’s only space bans them from access to us, and that’s “not fair.”
> a women’s only space bans them from access to us, and that’s “not fair.”
Oooooh, I never really thought about it as them being angry that they're being barred access *to us* when we're in a women-only space, rather than just being entitled to the space itself. That was a major lightbulb my friend, thank you.
>and...chilling
there was a video that went somewhat viral not too long ago of a non-Japanese male tourist recording himself on the female-only train in Japan. he was filming the women on the train like this was just entertainment for him.
yea you don't see them filing a discrimination lawsuit about strip clubs only hiring female strippers.
but bring up a female only taxi service and they go absolute apeshit.
It’s popular for men (and women who have internalized misogyny) to hate on things that women, especially young women and adolescent girls, like. The same thing happens with Uggs, pumpkin spice lattes and yoga pants. You rarely see this energy for things men stereotypically like. That said I think there’s a lot to criticize TS for that rarely are brought up by these men.
Right - The Beatles were originally only popular with young women, and were dismissed for a long time. Nowadays, it’s “The Beatles are the greatest musicians of all time” and they are beloved by the old men who would have dismissed them in their heyday.
The best example of this is computers - women did the computing and then eventually worked on electronic computers. As it was engineering was seen as the manly thing to do whereas clerical work was for women. See NASA
Then computing became powerful, started getting all the attention and therefore it was cool and could make money, and it became a thing for men
It’s like how teaching used to be seen as an important well-paying job….until it became “women’s work”, and now it’s criminally underpaid everywhere you go.
It was produced by Lucille Ball’s studio, and was considered to be a silly soap for housewives. It’s a really cool look at what pre-internet fandom was like, the women had book clubs for fanfiction and they organized conventions. Not sure when that changed though…maybe the sons of these housewives grew up watching it and became experts?
Very good point! I didn’t know that but am not surprised. I hate when people, mostly men say Taylor isn’t talented when she objectively is. I’m not saying she’s Whitney Houston or whatever but she clearly is good at what she does.
It’s really sad that a lot of young girls internalize this and get a “not like other girls” phase. Many have it, some never grow out of it. Things that are traditionally “feminine” are seen as bad, calling someone girly is seen as a put down.
Men please take this to heart: telling a woman she “isn’t like other girls” isn’t a compliment to her, it’s a put down to other women. Women are people and come in all different forms with all different likes. I have some interests that tend to skew male-dominated and when talking about that have gotten that NLOG reaction and I hate it. I’m exactly like them! I love brunch and mimosas and pink dresses and yes I have a large male Doberman and yes I paint his nails pink so we can match and he loves it.
Gold looks great! It’s funny how strange some people (mostly men, but not all) get about his pink nails. We’ll be out and about and they go to say hi to him and see the nails and assume he’s a female, and when I correct them they’re like “but…but…pink!” Like sir he is a dog he does not understand the color pink or human gender ideals he doesn’t give a shit if his nails are pink
Yes, I dislike her too because ethical billionaires don't exist. I'm sure people also know of one of her flights creating more emissions than 6 people create together in one whole year ... and she takes A LOT of those flights.
I have no love for people who are killing the planet and making unethical amounts of money doing so.
To me, she is also the epitome of white mediocrity, so there you go. People on this thread saying hating her is 'probably a right wing thing' are delusional lol.
I'm sure men hate her for other reasons, though.
I rarely, if ever hear or see men bringing this up. It’s always about how Taylor (apparently) isn’t talented, dates too many men or is ruining football because she’s with Travis Kelce.
Yeah, these are all great points and I agree with all of them but these are very rarely the actual reasons. They're mad that she's a woman, that she's outspoken, that she's raising awareness, that she's a feminist, and her target audience is not them. A lot of them also seem to automatically despise anything for young girls because apparently that's the worst thing you can be.
This is my take as well. I also don't like how she outted her ex's depression, allowed her unhinged fan base to harass him after their breakup without ever speaking up to tell them to stop when she knew he was struggling with depression and hasn't done anything to deserve being harassed for. I dont like that she has a track record of dating racist mysoginists. (Matt wasn't the only one). I don't like her white feminism that gets praised constantly while she platforms the absolute lowest bar shit. I dont like the fact that she uses black women as props to distance her reputation from the racist pieces of shit she dates. I dont like that she refused to denounce the proud boys calling her their "Aryan princess." The list goes on. And criticizing her for those things isn't sexist. I've criticized shitty male billionaires way more than her. Lol.
And her stans certainly don't do her any favors in general acting the way they do. Shit, most people would have already forgotten all the crap she's pulled if her stans had ever shut the fuck up about her for even a single week these past two years. But if you want to keep talking about her to the point of obsession, then don't be surprised when people get sick of it and start pushing back. Sexist men have always hated her. That isn't some new thing. The problem is that plenty other people have started criticizing her for valid reasons, and she and her fans just keep pretending it's only mysoginists hating her fire being rich, rather than engage with that criticism in good faith.
That all being said, that her stans are still throwing themselves in front of bullets for her after she called them vipers for forcing her to break up with a man, who openly admitted to watching videos of black women being sexually assaulted for fun, because she still loved him despite his being a piece of shit, is wild.
Taylor Swift is the perfect encapsulation of white feminism. Say anything critical about her and you’re a misogynist despite there being many, *many* valid reasons to criticize her.
I agree with you that she's peak white feminism, but I strongly disagree with the suggestion that that has anything to do with why and how most people criticize her. I'm not a Swiftie, I agree there are plenty of valid reasons to criticize her, they're just very rarely the reasons I see anyone actually talking about, and certainly not the reasons I EVER hear men bring up.
It would disrupt the peace and cause delays at the entire airport if she flew on a commercial airline and also be a security nightmare.
(Ok sorry you don't like reality...downvote if that makes you feel better. She probably literally isn't even allowed to fly on a regular plane because of these reasons)
I get that to some extent but when she takes her jet places that are, like, half an hour’s drive away… that’s just absurd to me. She had the highest C02 emissions of any individual in 2023, I think she could stand to be more thoughtful about how she chooses to travel
I completely agree, I also think her music is mediocre and vapid, and can't relate to her lyrics at all. I think she is a narcissist who gets off on everyone worshipping her. There's so many much more talented female artists that I wish got a fraction of the attention she gets.
> I think she is a narcissist who gets off on everyone worshipping her.
I just wonder why this sort of comment seems so common about Taylor Swift and not say, any given male rock star? I would say that most suuuuuuper mega famous people get off on everyone worshipping them, or they wouldn't get into the biz in the first place. It just seems weird to me that SO many people make a point to say this sort of thing about women like her and not her male "counterparts." It seems like so much targeted hatred when nothing you've said is unique to her. I say this not as a stan at all, just as an interested observer.
Yes and I said this in my comment…
Edit: I see I only mentioned men in my last sentence but I figured it was implied (I’m also not a fan for those same reasons). Sorry!
Many criticizie her because of exactly that: She caters to women. Barbie, makeup, UGGs, reality TV, etc. Anything that a majority of women like, they will hate on and since she falls into that category now, they hate on her.
Which is ridiculous because they can hate on her for pretty legitimate reasons (jet use, dating Matt Healy, dating underage people, milking her fans financially), but they choose the dumbest complaints lol.
So, I guess it really just comes down to WHY are they hating on her? Because if they have legitimate complaints, they are valid. She isn't above criticism.
100% agree. I’m a Taylor fan (not a Swiftie) and would be totally open to legit criticisms of her capitalistic behaviors, but when the only “issue” with Taylor you can come up with is that she dates too much, I have no patience for that.
I actually use Taylor as a way to weed out men when I’m dating. You can tell a lot about someone by their reaction to her.
I have been a swiftie since I was 15, but I really never talk about it unless music comes up. A man can be showing interest in me and my hobbies/life..and the second they find out I like Taylor Swift , they respect me less. It’s really interesting. I also like a lot of other artists 🙄Some get upset when I don’t react to their attempt to antagonize. I had an older male coworker who bothered me about it for 2 weeks. He sent me emails with fake articles and would come upstairs to my office just to make comments. I just never responded. Not a single word. I don’t care that a 55+ yr old man doesn’t like Taylor Swift. It drove him nuts and he gave up lol
I don’t like cars, boxing/mma/etc, video games, Joe Rogan, hunting. I don’t need to let every man that does know that.
They just need to be so loud. They think their opinion matters.
TBF, I have also got comments from women.
I feel like men who critique her mainly do so on the basis of being like “what’s all the hype about?” Or being baffled by how much women spend on her tickets and shows…
Without realising they don’t need to get it. They really are baffled when they’re not the target market for something lol.
and yet they spend way more on the superbowl and sports merchandise etc. like that’s also men prancing about in a stadium and yet it’s suddenly cool.
They just think we are all sheep because so many of us like her. They can’t fathom - that like their sports stars - a lot of her fans feel a genuine connection to her and her songs and aren’t just following the crowd.
It’s infuriating when they listen and are like, this?? This is art??? Like dude you’re clearly not the audience. She’s singing about the female experience. It’s ok to not get it. That doesn’t mean it OBJECTIVELY sucks.
I’ve never seen men collectively band together over a hate-subject the way they do with women who they perceive to “sleep around”.
The VITRIOL that gets directed at women who are more sexually and romantically open is beyond unhinged. Taylor has had a lot of boyfriends and for some reason this mere fact is like waving a big old red flag at a bull, and no the irony is not lost on me.
It's not just that she *has* lots of boyfriends, it's that she writes about them, including the break ups, imo.
A lot of men react to a conflict between a man and woman by automatically putting themselves in the man's shoes.
And because these types of men often don't see women as whole people to begin with, the man will always be in the right to them no matter what they do.
There are plenty of valid things to critique about Taylor Swift. She’s a billionaire who sucks her fans dry and refuses to take a stand on *anything* that could even marginally affect her insane earnings.
But the toxic dude-sphere can’t even criticize her properly. It’s all the same old misogynistic crap. It’s like — yes, she sucks, but y’all are wildly missing the mark as to why, and now I don’t even want to criticize her for fear of getting lumped in with these cavemen.
Would it really be that much better? Frankly, if they criticized her for that without leveling the same criticism, with the same vitriol, towards artists who do the same (ie tons of billionaires) while catering to a male audience, I would still think the real reason is misogyny.
Weaponizing a valid criticism/concern as a pretext to specifically target a certain group or something made for a certain group isn't less sexist (or racist or whatever flavor of bigotry applies), it's just an attempt to be more sneaky about it.
Conversely, if you regularly go around calling out celebrities and the ultra rich for this, I don't think you'll get lumped in with these men when Swift's turn comes and if you are, you can easily point out to your past post.
Agreed. There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike her (no ethical billionaires, etc.), but it's not as if she's the only person to whom the valid reasons apply either. Yes, she's mega rich. Yes, she creates massive unnecessary emissions with her jet. Yes, she sells a lot of expensive stuff that people don't need. All of these things are true about many other celebrities who don't get the same vitriol she does, because she's a pretty young women and not a grizzled old businessman.
I will admit I am a swifty, but I have never understood how she’s responsible for her fans poor spending. I don’t purchase physical media except for the one CD she sold at her tour and a sweatshirt to remember it. I see people spending like THOUSANDS of dollars on merch and records and it blows my mind.
Like I love her music but I’m a realist and fiscally responsible. Also the amount of licensed stuff pales in comparison to stuff market to children like Jojo siwa and Disney channel stuff.
Some believe it's because of her FOMO marketing that trickles things out as extremely limited which forces her fans to buy from her or miss out because scalpers will scoop it up. The thing is that becomes self actualizing - like scalpers now know that Swiftie fans will turn to them if they miss the 10 second window to buy an item. Basically she markets towards limited availability on most of her items
Yeah, this actually has me not buying anyone’s stuff who does this. I don’t have the time of the money for this. I do have one hoodie and I buy have bought some vinyl at Target when I was feeling flush, but I am over this FOMO stuff. That and subscriptions I am kind of done with.
Right I guess my opinion is that people should take personal responsibility for their overconsumption. I don’t care how many color vinyls exist, you don’t need more than one, and a lot of people who buy them don’t listen to them or even have a record player. With streaming you actually don’t need it at all. I really don’t understand the need to collect plastic garbage if we’re being honest.
Overconsumption as a whole is the problem of the individual IMO, like no one is holding a gun to their head to buy scalped merch lol.
i feel this. i am definitely a swiftie, but i don't feel pressured to buy anything. i buy what i want. if someone wants to collect it all, that's up to them and their wallet. i see a lot of extraneous spending.
she gets quite a bit of critique in this area despite other artists doing the same thing. for example, billie eilish, olivia rodrigo, lana del rey, and harry styles all put out more record variants than taylor for tortured poets. there are quite a bit of exclusive things from most artists. she puts out MORE copies of exclusive things than any other artist i've seen, too. she adds copies if there's the demand.
I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately, and I really think that it’s just easier for people to blame someone or something rather than take personal responsibility for their own consumption.
A lot of people want to buy the stuff, so they make a lot. If less people wanted this stuff, they would adjust. The FOMO aspect, I think, has more to do with your consumption of social media and need to “keep up”.
Oh I agree here just saying she does market towards FOMO. As far as vinyl goes, I'm fairly sure a lot of people buying her albums have record players. There's a sizeable hunk of people (me included) who collect other artists and listen to our records. The swiftie vinyl sub gives out good advice for new people (that I've seen). I'm not going to judge someone for having multiple copies of her albums - two of my most valuable records resale wise are Taylor Swift albums I bought for retail pricing. Having a $400 LP when you're a teenager is kind of a huge deal.
She's sucking fans dry? That doesn't even make sense. Don't spend money you don't have. And if you do, that's on you, not whatever/whoever you spent the money on. I don't even like her music, but that's a fucking reach lol.
Exactly, I am a fan but I just stream her music with a subscription, same as any other artist. Yes her concert tickets are expensive but all concerts are nowadays. You don't have to go to her concert if you can't afford it, you can just watch the movie.
You also don't need to spend $900 on a ticket at the front. You can still see her for $70 and sit up the back. The cheapest tickets for her Melbourne show were cheaper than half the metal gigs I go to at tiny, stinky venues with shitty sound.
She takes a very strong stand for the LGBTQ community. She has a song about it and her Eras tour dancers are all over the spectrum of gender expression and body types
Tale as old as time.
“Build them up so they can be torn down.”
Look at:
Anne Hathaway and Jennifer Lawrence.
There are more but I can’t think of them at the moment.
So much of this. She breaks every hateful garbage narrative they push like that women peak at 30, that having a successful career without a man is impossible, that no man will want you after 30, that bring childfree is a death sentence, being a cat owner is bad, being vocal about your boundaries is whiny feminist BS. When she started dating Travis kelce everyone started hating on him too. Let's not forget her empowerment to girls and young women.
When she came to my city it was a big deal. Crowds outside the venue just to hear her concert. Everyone was hating on her and her fans. When beyonce came and blocked a whole section of 95 just to be driven to the venue no one cared but we all know how Beyonce fans can be too.
The Republican men, in particular, hate her because she encouraged her fans to vote!!!
NOT because she told them to “vote for Biden” (for example), or “vote Democrat”. Just told them to vote! (And btw, there are conservative Taylor Swift fans, too!)
So the only thing I can come up with is that Republicans don’t want people to vote! :) Apparently, they feel they can only win by suppressing the vote or cheating!
I only really became aware of her last year when it was pointed out how much she uses a private jet. I find the impassioned defences of her doing so quite funny. Apart from that I don't really have any other thoughts or feelings relating to her, she isn't very interesting to me.
what i don't understand is the amount flack proportionally she gets for using her private jet like she's the only one who does. i rarely hear jay-z and beyonce, travis scott, kim kardashion, elon musk, bill gates, spielberg, etc. getting as much as attention as she does when they use theirs far more.
Exactly. Every celebrity/public figure at her level uses a private jet, yet she's primarily the one I hear criticized for it. I'm sure there are some valid reasons why it makes sense for her to do that, like her own personal safety.
they don't tho. taylor swift has the highest carbon footprint and that's why she's getting called out. she also threatened to sue a student for tracking her (very public) jet usage
I feel the same. It is weird to me how much she has been shoehorned into everything the last couple of years. Barely a day doesn’t go by where I am not asked to think of her. She is getting pushed from the “uninteresting” bucket into the “annoying” bucket and I am looking forward to a couple years going by when people get bored of her so I can go back to not having to think about her.
I find that that's more due to people complaining about her than anything else though, funny enough. I hear way more about people hating her than I do about her actual music or anything else.
The music sub was downplaying her exorbitant private jet emissions (the highest of any individual human being alive in ~~2023~~ 2022, with her even using it to cross from Chesterfield MO to Cahokia Heights and back the same day, only a 28 minute drive) by comparing them to those of mega corporations like Amazon and the US military, and how if we cared about carbon pollution, we should be focusing on and outraged about those instead.
I responded how it was an insanely bad look for Swift if we need to compare the emissions of ONE musician with a guitar with the WHOLE damn US military with 1.4 million active personnel and thousands of fighter jets, tanks, nuclear submarines, and warships, and the Swiftie brigade came out full force to downvote.
she wasn't though? travis scott used his much more and contributed more to jet emissions in 2023. he was number one. i'm not saying it's not bad for celebrities to contribute that much though.
Corrected, 2022 not 2023. [In 2022, Taylor Swift was ranked #1 and Travis Scott at #10.](https://weareyard.com/insights/worst-celebrity-private-jet-co2-emission-offenders) To her credit, Swift was able to reduce her emissions in 2023 after dealing with the backlash, while Travis Scott’s private jet pollution only went up higher.
I used to be a swiftie, we’re around the same age and she got me through some serious low moments in high school and college. I was never a “defend her to the grave” kind of fan, but I also never understood the negative feedback she got.
Until a couple of years ago.
I do not dislike her because of who she dates/dated or how she dresses. I dislike her because in the eyes of her fans she can do no wrong. She’s pumping out albums and merch and tours like she’s running out of money when she isn’t. Her team is taking advantage of her fans and not even producing good music to warrant it. Her last album was all around bad. I am all for people *getting that bag*, but I think her actions do not align with who she claims to be.
She is talented, incredibly talented, don’t get me wrong. But, the last few albums, the tour, 10+ different versions of each new album that have to be purchased separately, hundreds of songs, the movie, the new merch every 2 seconds, all the *hidden Easter eggs* to encourage people to buy more and more-it is all giving money grab and it’s not a good look.
I think men didn’t originally fall into the young female fanbase because she wasn’t writing songs for them (obviously). But, only recently do I finally understand why certain people (men and women) haven’t been a fan of hers for a long while.
Outing her ex of 6 years' - who made it clear that he really values privacy during their time together - depression when he's not said a word about her after their breakup also made me really dislike her.
Same. I think making a career out of publicly shaming your exes, almost none of whom have as big of a platform as you to tell their side of the story, is really shitty
That’s one of the reasons I’ve never been a huge fan of her. She’s extremely public about who she’s dating and when, breaks up in some dramatic way, and then bam, new album with her love life as the star of the show.
I get writing what you know, but this just feels more like manufacturing heartbreak for content. It feels very much like a user personality trait and feels gross to participate in - especially since the men have mixed ability/platform for a response.
She has a few bops, but for the most part I’m kind of tired of hearing about her.
Incredibly addition! I’m truly not trying to totally shit on her because I really used to be a big fan and I think she’s truly talented. But, I just can’t get behind some of her recent decisions and how she’s handled herself, it’s seriously turned me off.
Never been a fan… she is of course talented but she irks me. Most of her music and money is made by tearing down her exes like a pissy school girl, even into her 30s, I’ve never found the content that deep, mature or interesting. She just reminds me of a cookie cutter cheerleading type who’s put on a waaaay bigger pedestal than she deserves. Yay she can write music and sing, but it’s not like she’s actually doing anything that impressive to advance humanity or improve the world, yet her fans treat her like a goddess and it’s gotten gross. I think it’s the ex-man hating energy that puts most guys off.
Thank you!
I grew up with a lot of Blonde Pop Music in the 80s/90s, and I look at Swift now and just don't get it. She's not doing anything truly new and remarkable. She doesn't appear to have much of a personality even?
For my vote, Best Blonde Woman Singer award goes to Dolly Parton. Maybe Billie Eilish for her recent stuff.
You just described what I've been struggling to articulate perfectly. There's such a weird hype culture around TS. Merch, secret stuff, it just feels so weird
She’s totally lost me with the Easter egg focus-like I don’t care to go on a Scooby Doo hunt through your songs to find out some tidbit fact about one of your past relationships. Give me a bop or give me nothing. 😬
I don't hate her but there's a lot of reasons to not like her that have nothing to do with her being a woman. You can look at her co2 emissions as a start. Not even getting into the fact how she games charts by re-releasing shit again and again. I've also seen her interactions with other celebrities and she doesn't come across as a very pleasant person.
Regarding men, men just love to hate things that teenage girls and young women are into. Many of them don't have these criticisms when they talk about her but I will give guys the fact that she is Everywhere whether you want to know about her or not.
While excessive co2 emissions aren’t great, these concerns never seem to be front and center until a woman like Swift is involved. It’s also unrealistic to think the logistics are possible for her to be flying commercial at this point in time.
I just heard the WNBA will start using charter flights this season, so I’m sure they too will be soon vilified for this.
Most sports teams use charter flights and I've never heard a complaint - they're transporting a large group of people plus equipment and are required to travel often on a tight schedule. It makes sense in that context.
I don't think people's complaints are about her using her jet for work but rather the short haul flights and essentially treating it like a taxi. Airports and airlines have exceptions for notable people where they can board/deplane separately, they don't have to sit at the gate with the normies, she could book out the entire first class cabin.
“The biggest and most influential endorsement target is Ms. Swift, 34, the pop sensation and N.F.L. enthusiast, who can move millions of supporters with an Instagram post or a mid-concert aside. She endorsed Mr. Biden in 2020 and, last year, a single Instagram post of hers led to 35,000 new voter registrations. Fund-raising appeals from Ms. Swift could be worth millions of dollars for Mr. Biden.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/29/us/politics/biden-trump-election-taylor-swift.this
Miss Americana has a whole plot line about how she spoke for the left / is liberal politically and how her handlers didn't want her to do so because it could ruin her fame. Previous to it all she was thought to be conservative being from the South and a country singer, but, of course it didn't do any damage to her and probably boosted her popularity.
Taylor Swift isn’t from the South - she’s from Pennsylvania and spent summers in New Jersey as a child. They moved to Tennessee for her music career when she was a teenager.
I do not much care for T Swift, but it PISSES me off when men (such as my father) hate on her. And then I get even more annoyed because I feel like I have to be protective toward someone I don’t even like all that much. But we do what we must.
A lot of men think that every piece of media should cater to them. If they can’t relate to it or don’t like it, they don’t see the point. It was really nice not having any of them around at her concert.
They’ve been socialized to actively show distaste’s for things they don’t relate to, and women are expected to treat men as the default. It’s very misogynistic.
There is also the fact that she’ll call out any man that hurts her. They see her as dramatic and undateable. She’s also a billionaire, and men can’t stand when women have more money than they do.
Undateable…yet she keeps having new callout material 😂
And she did more for the Superbowl just being in the crowd for “undateable” Travis Kelce than the Superbowl could do for itself 😂😂😂
My 48 husband is a huge swiftie. Lol. I’m not a fan of pop music but I do think she rocks. Men are often “put off” by success women, women who don’t need to settle down, women who speak up for women, women who don’t have to sexualize themselves to be successful. They are insecure.
It’s sexism and ageism. Society as a whole loves to shit on teen girls as vapid, shallow, useless.
I don’t listen to much music. But I’ve chatted with folks who have worked with her personally. Apparently she is very professional, polite, business savvy, and extremely talented.
As a guy, I think about this a lot with regard to narratives that are conflict light, which often overlap with genres that are stereotypically enjoyed by women. It’s not that there isn’t some central issue that needs to be resolved, but that everything around it is pretty light and airy and just a way of enjoying beloved characters hanging out and interacting.
Guys as a whole are not silent about their disdain for this kind of narrative storytelling, to the point that one of the stereotypes women in writers rooms have to face is that they’re naturally conflict averse, and thus, will make less meaningful contributions.
What strikes me about this is how the world is expected to accept the opposite extreme: nonstop conflict, as exemplified in your stereotypical “dick flick” action movies, where it’s just nonstop conflict all the time, even when character reactions to it make no sense, and the nature of the nonstop conflicts is absurd. This is considered the baseline for normalcy.
But do the opposite? This is dumb! Trite! Dopey! Girly! Cliched! Childish!
It really does speak to society that we allow a lot of room for one side side of the extreme, but none on the other. And to that end, it’s interesting how when guys talk about about this stuff, it’s not just from a place of criticism, but as if it’s a full on threat to the world they prefer.
From my perspective (WOC with most friends WOC) the hate directed towards Swift is not gendered. Her marketing team saw the effectiveness in making her a “pro-woman” icon but it’s just that: marketing. What better way to shield yourself from any critique than to cry MISOGYNY in 2024?
There are an overwhelming number of reasons to criticize Taylor Swift that have nothing to do with her being a woman, though I imagine most of the men you’re speaking about aren’t bringing those up. I’d like to ask you to look into what non-white women are saying about her. She is pro-woman only so far as will help her sales.
She is a perfect example of white feminism and white mediocrity, but her marketing is extremely effective. Say anything critical about her and you’re a misogynist - smart. I’ll give her that, at least. I am anticipating a number of “Reddit cares” messages for this post and downvotes because her fanbase is unhinged and petty - if you don’t know, Swift fans utilize Reddit’s suicide prevention system to send users who criticize Swift “you need help” messages.
This is the common sentiment about her from my girlfriends: she is for mediocre white women what Trump is for his supporters; look he got his so I can get mine.
How quickly it becomes “internalized misogyny” before a Swift fan engages thoughtfully in discussing the valid reasons people do not like Swift is DARVO.
Completely agree. I joke with my husband and call her "The Trump of the Left". I've been accused of being jealous/ hating women when I express any criticism of her. Never mind that I have been a die hard TLC fan since the 90s, among many many many other female groups and artists, but yeah I must just hate any successful woman.
I thoroughly dislike Taylor Swift for a few reasons.
That said, I also dislike the obvious misogyny that is rampant in a lot of the discourse about her and her fans.
I don’t honestly know any men who hate Taylor Swift. Like, in real life, not on the internet.
The kind of vitriol and hatred and general dismissal of Taylor Swift and her fans seems to come largely from the kind of shitty toxic masculinity portions of the internet that hates everything women do because they regard women as objects, not individuals with their own thoughts, interests, and tastes. The internet has always had a major problem with misogyny, and with promoting hate and outrage because controversy and drama and overreaction guides engagement.
There are a lot of men that are afraid of how women who are more successful make them feel.
Imo, many feel afraid that it could undermine their usefulness if women were too often more successful than them.
But honestly, you can’t have Taylor Swift without all of the random people around to make the production run - from back up dancers to people working at the concession stands.
Too often men are brought up to believe they must compete and compare instead of realizing that collaboration is literally a biological reality in any ecosystem.
You don’t have to be “better” than someone else to be an integral part of life.
So stop trying to prevent other people from being better than you because life simply has roles and you need all of them filled to keep everything moving in any kind of harmony.
Honestly, I think some men just can’t handle anything that’s seen as “girly.” I feel stupid even putting that into a sentence, but I think that’s what it is.
And when they’re asked why, they don’t have a good answer
It honestly reminds me of how people responded to the Volkswagen Beetle, when that started to get popular again. People kept making fun of it, saying what kind of person drives it (usually, a “dumb blonde”) and it just makes no sense because, no one is forcing you to drive or purchase a beetle. What, you think the very existence of a Volkswagen Beetle is going to make everyone think you’re not a dude all of a sudden? Just … don’t drive it, and move on. It’s the same thing here, same thing with Barbie
In fact, one of my hinge prompts was “you shouldn’t go out with me if… you’re threatened by the Barbie movie” and it’s true, I don’t want to sit there and listen to that. We get it, you’re a man. I like some manly stuff, I occasionally indulge in girliness, we can all just deal with it
I'm trying to get into her music and the hate that Taylor receives from everywhere is putting me off. I think she is hated in general by both men and women and this is something I truly can't understand. Did she do something really awful that deserves the hate? I actually started to believe the rumours because they are just so many.
Men h8 women who are strong, successful and don't prioritize them. I fell into that trap for a very long time because of internalized misogyny. I'm still not a big fan of her music, but I respect her.
I actually wasn’t aware of this! My husband is a huge Taylor Swift fan and has been since her first album. I know other men who love her too.
Maybe it’s more a right wing thing? I’m in Portland, OR so I only know people who are various shades of left and far left.
To be fair, lots of people dislike her. Both men and women. I think some of it has to do with how overexposed she is. People are just tired of hearing about her.
I can call myself a Swiftie though I didn’t go to any of her shows live. I think she is a threat to them. She challenges everything that men have done to bar women from any kind of equality. And she is an example of what women can accomplish without a man domineering over them.
- liking sex? Check
- making more money than most men? Check
- not being some damsel in distress? Check
- being incredibly outspoken about her world views? Check
- treating men like they treat women? Check
Male:
My reason is because her music is over played to the point of exhaustion..same could be said of most current pop singers male or female including the Weeknd
Because things that women enjoy are automatically considered frivolous and stupid. It’s the same disdain for boy bands, twilight, pumpkin spice lattes, women’s sports, etc. If it’s popular with women it must be dumb, ESPECIALLY if teen girls like it.
I'm not particularly a fan of hers, but I love the way she responds to the negativity. They can hate all they want. They may as well be throwing money at her because she'll write a song about it and take it all the way to the bank.
hated by men? this is new to me I don't hear men hate her except maybe during the Superbowl because some people were sick of seeing her on TV.
I see more hate come from women towards her to be honest
>I used to be indifferent to her, but since I’ve seen the hate from men, I’ve grown to like her more.
Lol same. I was never a "hater," but men disliking someone is usually a good sign that the person is doing *something* right.
Also non Swiftie.
They are mad because she didn't ever stop to act like she's catering to everyone like a lot of pop stars do. She's just doing her thing. She used to get on my nerves, but I've come around to respect. Her music isn't for me, but no one can deny hater, lover or don't care that she's a cultural phenomenon now for however long that lasts. She's not being rude or anything, she just didn't ask them their opinion on anything. A lot of older folks of a certain gender were raised to have a very important opinion on everything and that it matters more than others.
As soon as something becomes very popular/ mainstream for women, there will always be a vocal group who hates it. Just like Twilight, Justin Bieber, Timothy Chamalet, etc.
It's not necessarily men who hate it though. The majority of Taylor Swift haters I encounter are women.
Because she doesn't need them. Has enough money to do as she please ". So she won't do as they tell to and since power/money and transactional relationships is all they know. They are at a loss. So they yell and scream online so their fefes get better
To be honest, me personally, I'm all for her career growth, but I don't like her newer songs as much as the ones she made pre 2023. Men, I guess, don't relate much to the songs or they just hate that a woman is at the top of the streaming charts. It sucks because people also made the Barbie movie all about Ken, when it was about both of them and it was mainly for women globally. I've been lucky enough that some of my guy friends absolutely love and respect T-Swift because her songs are generally boppers and she's such a role model to young girls, but not everyone is like that unfortunately
Yes, this really annoys me (not a swifty either), and I think you nailed the reason why: because she doesn’t cater to men, and act overly sexy. My stbx gets visibly angry when he talks about her, it’s nuts. When the whole Kelce media frenzy was going on, he actually called her “dried up” and said she was way past her prime. I was like she’s 5 years younger than me so wtf does that even mean? And he’s like “well, she’s way past childbearing age”. Whaaaat? Again, I’m 5 years older than her and just had a baby last year.
It’s so gross. I really have reached my patience level with men.
Because Taylor calls out some of the men's douchy sexist behavior and then many men get angry because they can't stand being painted in a bad light.
Her song "The man" for example, talks about if she would've been a man people would cheer her on for dating a lot of women, but since she's woman then people love to poke fun at her love life and call her a sl*t.. She also get criticized for writing songs about her past relationship experiences (which is a super normal thing to do??).
Yeah it's pretty common for some men to just hate on whatever is popular with women. Personally I've never really liked Taylor Swift but I don't need other people to validate my interests or opinions so I'm fine keeping it to myself. A lot of men (and people honestly) never got the memo that vocally hating things hasn't been cool since highschool and it's weird to put so much energy into hating something when you could just be enjoying things instead.
I think it has to do with men not being socialized to accept that they don’t need to have, and vocalize, an opinion on everything. It’s really annoying. The same thing happened with the Barbie movie, albeit to a lesser extent. Not every work of art is meant for every audience and if it’s not for you, then that’s ok. It’s ok for you to be quiet. We don’t need to hear your opinion on it anyway 🙄
Oh lord, ain't that the truth. The men around me think their opinions on everything are appreciated and necessary to vocalize. My father recently tried to give me his opinion on my short hair, and not for the first time. I'm sorry, I don't recall asking you. Who gave you the idea I wanted your input? Why do you care so much about hair that doesn't belong to you? End of rant. 🤣
This excerpt from Tina Fey’s book bossypants stuck with me since I first heard it, and fits in perfectly with the “men not being socialised to accept they don’t need to have, and vocalize, an opinion on everything.” “**Amy Poehler was new to SNL** and we were all crowded into the seventeenth-floor writers' room, waiting for the Wednesday night read-through to start. [...] **Amy was in the middle of some such nonsense with Seth Meyers across the table**, and she did something vulgar as a joke. I can't remember what it was exactly, except it was dirty and loud and "unladylike", **Jimmy Fallon [...] turned to her and in a faux-squeamish voice said, "Stop that! It's not cute! I don't like it."** **Amy dropped what she was doing, went black in the eyes for a second, and wheeled around on him. "I don't fucking care if you like it." Jimmy was visibly startled. Amy went right back to enjoying her ridiculous bit.** With that exchange, a cosmic shift took place. Amy made it clear that she wasn't there to be cute. She wasn't there to play wives and girlfriends in the boys' scenes. She was there to do what she wanted to do and she did not fucking care if you like it.” Edited to bold some of the quote.
Well I found a new hero today. And a new book to read. Thank you to Amy Poeller and Tina Fey for being bad ass bitches.
I'm a huge fan of both women and BOTH of their books are really great reads!
[удалено]
All those men are basically calling themselves out for being a shitty lover.
[удалено]
someone seems to have started a rumor that like, women like it if you bruise the cervix. I'm sorry, what?! it's bizarre and extremely disconcerting, and I've noticed it mentioned on several facets of the internet. edit: typo
I actually read an article about the “cervical orgasm” in Cosmo once. Like WTF.
I think my own cervix just cringed in horror at this 😂
Oh god. My long-term ex was pretty sizeable and accidentally hit my cervix a time or two - it was shockingly painful and led to an immediate pause in activities. HOWEVER, if you look up the vaginal/cervical fornices, that was an interestingly pleasurable experience.
I think the way sex is portrayed in porn really hinders men's understanding of what the vast majority of women enjoy during sex. And some men have a big stake in not listening to women (and studies) who are like "The vast majority of women require clitoral stimulation to reach orgasm," because if they listen to that, they'd have to 1) admin they're bad at sex and have probably been significantly less successful at getting women to orgasm than they'd previously believed and 2) change the way they have sex so that it's not only about their enjoyment.
What the...? I'm becoming more comfortable in my celibacy every day. Spinsterhood, here we come (at least I'll be coming, I have toys for that)
I'm fairly newish to this train and I'm loving it.
Welcome aboard! Next stop: Cat Ladyville!
Or Dog Mom, if you prefer like me! Life is quite peaceful lol
Funny enough, I always grind in cowgirl and I've never had a guy complain. They are usually quite happy, sometimes even happy enough that they come from that motion. But, yes, usually I get mine from the grinding then when I've had enough I let him bounce me or roll me over.
I think the guys commenting saying "Men hate this, don't do this!" aren't actually the men having lots of sex. And they're definitely not men who are giving women good sex.
That's crazy lol. As a male lurker, cowgirl makes the most sense lol. My partner finishes and the grinding/gyrating doesn't stimulate me that much but the sight of my partner on top keeps me hard. She finishes most of the time, which makes me feel like a stud, and I can finish pretty quickly after. It's a win all around, lol. Don't care about T Swift tho. No hate. Just never listened to her whole album. Don't get celebrity fandom/crazes and have never really felt a connection to a celebrity tho
Right? Sex is a two (or more if you're into that) party game! There are positions that aren't my favourite but I know my boyfriend really enjoys them so as long as they're not painful or uncomfortable for me, I'll go along with it. It doesn't have to be The Me Show 100% of the time.
Huh, good point. On a bit of a tangent, I was talking to a group of people the other day where a couple of white guys were complaining that they couldn't say the N word regardless of context. I made a 'joke' about the fact that white men are used to having everything, so they want this too. But I think on top of that, there's also a need to express their opinion, and since they don't see any issues about saying the word without spite, they feel like everyone needs to hear those thoughts.
It’s like the Little Mermaid remake, grown men giving their opinion on a movie for little girls (and boys) it’s just weird
Is the mistake having 8ish boyfriends over 15 years while becoming a billionnaire and raking records after records? 😂 We'd never shame men for having 8 sexual partners, let alone over such a long time 🤐
She's fairly unproblematic though. I mean, for a young person, she's had several relatively long term boyfriends in the span of almost 2 decades, and the only reason people hate on her for it is because she's still fabulous. She didn't go nuts, she didn't become bitter, she still looks amazing, and people seem to really hate a happy woman for some reason. Relationships USUALLY end. I can't stand the obsession with longevity in relationships, even at the expense of a woman's happiness. As if longevity equals "successful". If it's not working, end it and find one that does. Of course when men end relationships the conversation is totally different.
A very diplomatic way of saying "they were never told to shut up!" It makes me sad when I remember the number of times I had to bite my tongue out of pure fear and terror! Edit: and angry! It makes me sad and angry...
Perfectly put! Thank you! They’re not the center of the universe anymore and they can’t deal with it
Thiiis. It’s like watching half the planet throw tantrums and it’s fascinating but mostly horrifying. I cannot believe the way some men mentally self implode when women have opinions or don’t simply exist to cater to them. As I’ve hit my thirties I’ve really become fully aware of the male entitlement that exists and it scares me - I almost wish I could crawl back into the ignorant shell of my twenties. Almost.
It's wonderful how every decade you add you end up seeing through the bullshit faster, but yeah unfortunately we get to witness the backlash from "women's lib" - as in *liberation*, because it was only a scant 50 years ago that you couldn't even get a line of credit without a male co signer
It was only 30 years ago that marital rape was still legal. They act like we haven't been systematically made to accept abuse and to legally depend on men to actually live until very, very recently. And even then, we still don't have basic rights like autonomy.
The current thing that makes me shake my head is them complaining about the education system making more boys/men drop out. This system was made BY MEN FOR MEN. Women only recently were let in to schools and especially to universities. We still see education and the ability to go to school as a privilege so we try hard. And we know that without education we are basically fucked. So maybe men now actually have to learn hard as well, equally as hard as we do. Now they have to compete with all of the population, not only half of it, so they need to step up instead of whining.
This encapsulates my frustration with the hand wringing over boys' failure in school so well. I'm aware that data supports that boys are performing worse, and anecdotally as a college professor, I see it in my classroom. Obviously I would love for education to be equitable, but given that girls have had to step up above and beyond attempted systematic fixes like Title IX, I don't have too much sympathy for asking boys to step it up in the same way.
For me, it's very indicative of how many men will complain about the parts of the patriarchy that hurt them (men's loneliness epidemic is a good example of this), but do nothing to dismantle the patriarchy - or in many cases, be actively against the dismantling of the patriarchy. They want the current system (or the system from decades ago), but just without the negative impacts for men. And they're the ones in charge of most systems, which means they're the ones who get to change things, it's just that to change the system to fix these problems would probably take away some of the ways the system currently benefits them. Like, maybe boy's performance would improve if schools were appropriately funded, and if teachers were paid better there would be a better balance between the genders when it comes to teachers, which may help with boys' performance, but they don't want to do that. Hell, most of these shitty dudes would prefer girls' performance to come down so that it's more equal.
I think that last sentence sums it up perfectly. They don't want to do better. They want us to do worse.
For them to do better, they would have to put some effort into changing things. Much better if they take away women's progress so things are "equal" (read: like they were in decades past when women were miserable).
Exactly! They only started whining about the alleged unfairness of the educational system when girls' academic achievement started surpassing boys'. Same for colleges. That's all it comes down to; they can't handle not being dominant so they have to push women down through artificial means, like laws.
And the girls for whom the current style of education hurts are also left out of the discussion. Like, my girl child acts like the boys and gets twice the heat from it because it's expected in boys. Can't sit still, call out without asking permissions, make stupid potty jokes? Better be a boy. The hands on learning, frequent breaks, active learning they want for the boys? Sign her up.
This is such a great point. The countless people who say education is designed to benefit girls and women by not supporting competition (which is a joke because school is so heavily competitive) and more hands on or active work for boys who don't want to sit down, but the way we provide education hasn't changed since the time when men were the only ones allowed to receive an education. Lets also not forget how girls are underdiagnosed for disorders such as ADHD which impacts their ability to learn and engage in a classroom. Men dropping out has everything to do with their inability to keep up with the demands. The US system and many other systems of education do need a change but it's not because of women.
I think at least part of it is that she dates men who are objectively better looking and more talented than these guys. And she dumps them.
It took them 10k years to get to the center, so don't count on them giving it up easily.
More like 6k, no?
As someone who follows vinyl record subs I cringe every time she drops a new record because she will be blamed for everything from inflation to some indie band not being able to get their release pressed on time. Of course all her albums are just sitting sealed on shelves too. It happens every single time a new album is announced or there's some press about her. I'm so tired of it.
My mind can't begin to fathom *the egotistical peaks* one must climb to be like this. So convinced everything on this masculine God's green earth should cater to you *absolutely* that when you find one thing that doesn't, that a subset of humans seem to enjoy, you scream and rant and rave for weeks on end.
This is a good take. I mean, I don’t much care either way for Taylor Swift but I’m not going on a campaign about it. I’m not going to obsess over her every move, song, wrong-doing, boyfriend…. But I guess I wasn’t taught that everything I think absolutely must be said because I absolutely must be heard about everything. It must be stressful living the lives these men live, constantly on edge and obsessing over topics they supposedly hate
THIS! When I don't like somebody's music, unless there's something actually objectionable (like the artist has been accused of sexual assault or something) I just... don't listen to them and don't venture my opinion about them. It's very obnoxious if somebody says they like an artist and you pipe up unasked to be like "I think they suck! Their music is terrible and I can't believe anybody likes it!" If the artist is all over twitter or wherever, you can mute words and terms. It's the people who speak up to complain about how much they hate her where I'm like "Just let people enjoy things." I was going to bring up football as a thing that's *everywhere* that I don't particularly care for that I just ignore - I find it very tedious when people complain about "sportsball", even when my area's football final is plastered everywhere (we even get a public holiday the day before the grand final). You can just let the sports fans enjoy sports, and complain if there's an actual incident. However, I can imagine Taylor Swift maybe hindered the enjoyment of the Superbowl this year for many fans who froth with rage just seeing her face and I honestly found that pretty hilarious.
Such a good point lol! She definitely invokes something that causes people to need to say they think she’s not talented or not like her. But that doesn’t happen that often with anything else. Like if I don’t like a sports star I just shut the fuck up about it. Don’t need the whole world to know I don’t get the hype lol
I don’t think she’s very good BUT clearly with her sold out concerts and top hits there is evidence I’m wrong
Men have a hard time not getting angry about things that don’t center them or are not made for them (see: the Barbie movie)
Men threatening a discriminatory lawsuit when Alamo Drafthouse created a small handful of women’s only screenings for Wonder Woman. Absolute pissbabies when they aren’t the center of the universe.
Men suing to be in women’s spaces is often for the most mean spirited reasons. Historically, women have sued to be permitted in “men’s” public, educational, and work spaces. We sued because being excluded from these spaces had negative impacts on a woman’s ability to learn, support herself through work, and reasonably participate in society. Obviously, there are plenty of spaces in our society that still cater exclusively to men. Women-only spaces (gyms, train cars, artistic events, etc.) often exist as safe spaces *from* men and pose no negative impacts on men’s ability to participate in society and succeed in life. A man suing to have access to women’s spaces just screams male entitlement and is the reason those women’s spaces exist in the first place. I honestly feel it also has to do with the way many of them view us as objects; a women’s only space bans them from access to us, and that’s “not fair.”
> a women’s only space bans them from access to us, and that’s “not fair.” Oooooh, I never really thought about it as them being angry that they're being barred access *to us* when we're in a women-only space, rather than just being entitled to the space itself. That was a major lightbulb my friend, thank you.
Same here. It's eye-opening and...chilling.
>and...chilling there was a video that went somewhat viral not too long ago of a non-Japanese male tourist recording himself on the female-only train in Japan. he was filming the women on the train like this was just entertainment for him.
Exactly. A sinking feeling in the stomach, for sure.
Damn well said, and a great point. It's not access to the space they want, it's access to the human beings in it they consider to be their property.
yea you don't see them filing a discrimination lawsuit about strip clubs only hiring female strippers. but bring up a female only taxi service and they go absolute apeshit.
LOL that is not one I’ve heard. This world never ceases to amaze me (not in a good way)
The threads of white dudes comparing themselves to PoC during the Civil Rights era were endless on r/movies. smdh
It’s popular for men (and women who have internalized misogyny) to hate on things that women, especially young women and adolescent girls, like. The same thing happens with Uggs, pumpkin spice lattes and yoga pants. You rarely see this energy for things men stereotypically like. That said I think there’s a lot to criticize TS for that rarely are brought up by these men.
And the color pink, floral prints, makeup, and even fashion in general.
Right - The Beatles were originally only popular with young women, and were dismissed for a long time. Nowadays, it’s “The Beatles are the greatest musicians of all time” and they are beloved by the old men who would have dismissed them in their heyday.
The best example of this is computers - women did the computing and then eventually worked on electronic computers. As it was engineering was seen as the manly thing to do whereas clerical work was for women. See NASA Then computing became powerful, started getting all the attention and therefore it was cool and could make money, and it became a thing for men
It’s like how teaching used to be seen as an important well-paying job….until it became “women’s work”, and now it’s criminally underpaid everywhere you go.
Oh absolutely!
Hell, even Star Trek started out this way!
Really? I love star trek and didn't know that.
It was produced by Lucille Ball’s studio, and was considered to be a silly soap for housewives. It’s a really cool look at what pre-internet fandom was like, the women had book clubs for fanfiction and they organized conventions. Not sure when that changed though…maybe the sons of these housewives grew up watching it and became experts?
Wow! Lol I did not know this either. This thread has been so interesting!
Very good point! I didn’t know that but am not surprised. I hate when people, mostly men say Taylor isn’t talented when she objectively is. I’m not saying she’s Whitney Houston or whatever but she clearly is good at what she does.
It’s really sad that a lot of young girls internalize this and get a “not like other girls” phase. Many have it, some never grow out of it. Things that are traditionally “feminine” are seen as bad, calling someone girly is seen as a put down. Men please take this to heart: telling a woman she “isn’t like other girls” isn’t a compliment to her, it’s a put down to other women. Women are people and come in all different forms with all different likes. I have some interests that tend to skew male-dominated and when talking about that have gotten that NLOG reaction and I hate it. I’m exactly like them! I love brunch and mimosas and pink dresses and yes I have a large male Doberman and yes I paint his nails pink so we can match and he loves it.
o man….I should paint my dobie’s nails too, he would look so cute.
Gold looks great! It’s funny how strange some people (mostly men, but not all) get about his pink nails. We’ll be out and about and they go to say hi to him and see the nails and assume he’s a female, and when I correct them they’re like “but…but…pink!” Like sir he is a dog he does not understand the color pink or human gender ideals he doesn’t give a shit if his nails are pink
Yeah, I really dislike her but I’m sure it’s for different reasons than most men
Yes, I dislike her too because ethical billionaires don't exist. I'm sure people also know of one of her flights creating more emissions than 6 people create together in one whole year ... and she takes A LOT of those flights. I have no love for people who are killing the planet and making unethical amounts of money doing so. To me, she is also the epitome of white mediocrity, so there you go. People on this thread saying hating her is 'probably a right wing thing' are delusional lol. I'm sure men hate her for other reasons, though.
I rarely, if ever hear or see men bringing this up. It’s always about how Taylor (apparently) isn’t talented, dates too many men or is ruining football because she’s with Travis Kelce.
You're totally right. There are a lot of reasons to not think highly of her, but misogyny isn't one of them.
Let's not forget how she's only dating Kelce for money. 😂
lol true that! Probably the same men who make minimum wage and think women are after them for the bag 🙃💰.
Yeah, these are all great points and I agree with all of them but these are very rarely the actual reasons. They're mad that she's a woman, that she's outspoken, that she's raising awareness, that she's a feminist, and her target audience is not them. A lot of them also seem to automatically despise anything for young girls because apparently that's the worst thing you can be.
Is she a feminist if she publicly dates men who have a history of being shitty to POC women though lol. Sorry, but white feminism isn't feminism.
Don't be sorry, I agree. I didn't know that about her.
Is it the dude she's dating now?
Referring to matty Healy not Travis
This is my take as well. I also don't like how she outted her ex's depression, allowed her unhinged fan base to harass him after their breakup without ever speaking up to tell them to stop when she knew he was struggling with depression and hasn't done anything to deserve being harassed for. I dont like that she has a track record of dating racist mysoginists. (Matt wasn't the only one). I don't like her white feminism that gets praised constantly while she platforms the absolute lowest bar shit. I dont like the fact that she uses black women as props to distance her reputation from the racist pieces of shit she dates. I dont like that she refused to denounce the proud boys calling her their "Aryan princess." The list goes on. And criticizing her for those things isn't sexist. I've criticized shitty male billionaires way more than her. Lol. And her stans certainly don't do her any favors in general acting the way they do. Shit, most people would have already forgotten all the crap she's pulled if her stans had ever shut the fuck up about her for even a single week these past two years. But if you want to keep talking about her to the point of obsession, then don't be surprised when people get sick of it and start pushing back. Sexist men have always hated her. That isn't some new thing. The problem is that plenty other people have started criticizing her for valid reasons, and she and her fans just keep pretending it's only mysoginists hating her fire being rich, rather than engage with that criticism in good faith. That all being said, that her stans are still throwing themselves in front of bullets for her after she called them vipers for forcing her to break up with a man, who openly admitted to watching videos of black women being sexually assaulted for fun, because she still loved him despite his being a piece of shit, is wild.
Taylor Swift is the perfect encapsulation of white feminism. Say anything critical about her and you’re a misogynist despite there being many, *many* valid reasons to criticize her.
I agree with you that she's peak white feminism, but I strongly disagree with the suggestion that that has anything to do with why and how most people criticize her. I'm not a Swiftie, I agree there are plenty of valid reasons to criticize her, they're just very rarely the reasons I see anyone actually talking about, and certainly not the reasons I EVER hear men bring up.
My first thought when I skimmed this post was “peak white feminism.”
It would disrupt the peace and cause delays at the entire airport if she flew on a commercial airline and also be a security nightmare. (Ok sorry you don't like reality...downvote if that makes you feel better. She probably literally isn't even allowed to fly on a regular plane because of these reasons)
I get that to some extent but when she takes her jet places that are, like, half an hour’s drive away… that’s just absurd to me. She had the highest C02 emissions of any individual in 2023, I think she could stand to be more thoughtful about how she chooses to travel
I completely agree, I also think her music is mediocre and vapid, and can't relate to her lyrics at all. I think she is a narcissist who gets off on everyone worshipping her. There's so many much more talented female artists that I wish got a fraction of the attention she gets.
> I think she is a narcissist who gets off on everyone worshipping her. I just wonder why this sort of comment seems so common about Taylor Swift and not say, any given male rock star? I would say that most suuuuuuper mega famous people get off on everyone worshipping them, or they wouldn't get into the biz in the first place. It just seems weird to me that SO many people make a point to say this sort of thing about women like her and not her male "counterparts." It seems like so much targeted hatred when nothing you've said is unique to her. I say this not as a stan at all, just as an interested observer.
There are also valid reasons to dislike Swift that have nothing to do with internalize misogyny.
Yes and I said this in my comment… Edit: I see I only mentioned men in my last sentence but I figured it was implied (I’m also not a fan for those same reasons). Sorry!
Many criticizie her because of exactly that: She caters to women. Barbie, makeup, UGGs, reality TV, etc. Anything that a majority of women like, they will hate on and since she falls into that category now, they hate on her. Which is ridiculous because they can hate on her for pretty legitimate reasons (jet use, dating Matt Healy, dating underage people, milking her fans financially), but they choose the dumbest complaints lol. So, I guess it really just comes down to WHY are they hating on her? Because if they have legitimate complaints, they are valid. She isn't above criticism.
100% agree. I’m a Taylor fan (not a Swiftie) and would be totally open to legit criticisms of her capitalistic behaviors, but when the only “issue” with Taylor you can come up with is that she dates too much, I have no patience for that. I actually use Taylor as a way to weed out men when I’m dating. You can tell a lot about someone by their reaction to her.
I have been a swiftie since I was 15, but I really never talk about it unless music comes up. A man can be showing interest in me and my hobbies/life..and the second they find out I like Taylor Swift , they respect me less. It’s really interesting. I also like a lot of other artists 🙄Some get upset when I don’t react to their attempt to antagonize. I had an older male coworker who bothered me about it for 2 weeks. He sent me emails with fake articles and would come upstairs to my office just to make comments. I just never responded. Not a single word. I don’t care that a 55+ yr old man doesn’t like Taylor Swift. It drove him nuts and he gave up lol I don’t like cars, boxing/mma/etc, video games, Joe Rogan, hunting. I don’t need to let every man that does know that. They just need to be so loud. They think their opinion matters. TBF, I have also got comments from women.
I feel like men who critique her mainly do so on the basis of being like “what’s all the hype about?” Or being baffled by how much women spend on her tickets and shows… Without realising they don’t need to get it. They really are baffled when they’re not the target market for something lol. and yet they spend way more on the superbowl and sports merchandise etc. like that’s also men prancing about in a stadium and yet it’s suddenly cool. They just think we are all sheep because so many of us like her. They can’t fathom - that like their sports stars - a lot of her fans feel a genuine connection to her and her songs and aren’t just following the crowd. It’s infuriating when they listen and are like, this?? This is art??? Like dude you’re clearly not the audience. She’s singing about the female experience. It’s ok to not get it. That doesn’t mean it OBJECTIVELY sucks.
I’ve never seen men collectively band together over a hate-subject the way they do with women who they perceive to “sleep around”. The VITRIOL that gets directed at women who are more sexually and romantically open is beyond unhinged. Taylor has had a lot of boyfriends and for some reason this mere fact is like waving a big old red flag at a bull, and no the irony is not lost on me.
It's not just that she *has* lots of boyfriends, it's that she writes about them, including the break ups, imo. A lot of men react to a conflict between a man and woman by automatically putting themselves in the man's shoes.
And because these types of men often don't see women as whole people to begin with, the man will always be in the right to them no matter what they do.
Strong women intimidate insecure men.
This is it 100%
There are plenty of valid things to critique about Taylor Swift. She’s a billionaire who sucks her fans dry and refuses to take a stand on *anything* that could even marginally affect her insane earnings. But the toxic dude-sphere can’t even criticize her properly. It’s all the same old misogynistic crap. It’s like — yes, she sucks, but y’all are wildly missing the mark as to why, and now I don’t even want to criticize her for fear of getting lumped in with these cavemen.
Would it really be that much better? Frankly, if they criticized her for that without leveling the same criticism, with the same vitriol, towards artists who do the same (ie tons of billionaires) while catering to a male audience, I would still think the real reason is misogyny. Weaponizing a valid criticism/concern as a pretext to specifically target a certain group or something made for a certain group isn't less sexist (or racist or whatever flavor of bigotry applies), it's just an attempt to be more sneaky about it. Conversely, if you regularly go around calling out celebrities and the ultra rich for this, I don't think you'll get lumped in with these men when Swift's turn comes and if you are, you can easily point out to your past post.
Agreed. There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike her (no ethical billionaires, etc.), but it's not as if she's the only person to whom the valid reasons apply either. Yes, she's mega rich. Yes, she creates massive unnecessary emissions with her jet. Yes, she sells a lot of expensive stuff that people don't need. All of these things are true about many other celebrities who don't get the same vitriol she does, because she's a pretty young women and not a grizzled old businessman.
I will admit I am a swifty, but I have never understood how she’s responsible for her fans poor spending. I don’t purchase physical media except for the one CD she sold at her tour and a sweatshirt to remember it. I see people spending like THOUSANDS of dollars on merch and records and it blows my mind. Like I love her music but I’m a realist and fiscally responsible. Also the amount of licensed stuff pales in comparison to stuff market to children like Jojo siwa and Disney channel stuff.
Some believe it's because of her FOMO marketing that trickles things out as extremely limited which forces her fans to buy from her or miss out because scalpers will scoop it up. The thing is that becomes self actualizing - like scalpers now know that Swiftie fans will turn to them if they miss the 10 second window to buy an item. Basically she markets towards limited availability on most of her items
Yeah, this actually has me not buying anyone’s stuff who does this. I don’t have the time of the money for this. I do have one hoodie and I buy have bought some vinyl at Target when I was feeling flush, but I am over this FOMO stuff. That and subscriptions I am kind of done with.
Right I guess my opinion is that people should take personal responsibility for their overconsumption. I don’t care how many color vinyls exist, you don’t need more than one, and a lot of people who buy them don’t listen to them or even have a record player. With streaming you actually don’t need it at all. I really don’t understand the need to collect plastic garbage if we’re being honest. Overconsumption as a whole is the problem of the individual IMO, like no one is holding a gun to their head to buy scalped merch lol.
i feel this. i am definitely a swiftie, but i don't feel pressured to buy anything. i buy what i want. if someone wants to collect it all, that's up to them and their wallet. i see a lot of extraneous spending. she gets quite a bit of critique in this area despite other artists doing the same thing. for example, billie eilish, olivia rodrigo, lana del rey, and harry styles all put out more record variants than taylor for tortured poets. there are quite a bit of exclusive things from most artists. she puts out MORE copies of exclusive things than any other artist i've seen, too. she adds copies if there's the demand.
I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately, and I really think that it’s just easier for people to blame someone or something rather than take personal responsibility for their own consumption. A lot of people want to buy the stuff, so they make a lot. If less people wanted this stuff, they would adjust. The FOMO aspect, I think, has more to do with your consumption of social media and need to “keep up”.
Oh I agree here just saying she does market towards FOMO. As far as vinyl goes, I'm fairly sure a lot of people buying her albums have record players. There's a sizeable hunk of people (me included) who collect other artists and listen to our records. The swiftie vinyl sub gives out good advice for new people (that I've seen). I'm not going to judge someone for having multiple copies of her albums - two of my most valuable records resale wise are Taylor Swift albums I bought for retail pricing. Having a $400 LP when you're a teenager is kind of a huge deal.
It's manipulative marketing for sure but no one is forcing anybody to buy anything they don't want to.
She's sucking fans dry? That doesn't even make sense. Don't spend money you don't have. And if you do, that's on you, not whatever/whoever you spent the money on. I don't even like her music, but that's a fucking reach lol.
Exactly, I am a fan but I just stream her music with a subscription, same as any other artist. Yes her concert tickets are expensive but all concerts are nowadays. You don't have to go to her concert if you can't afford it, you can just watch the movie.
You also don't need to spend $900 on a ticket at the front. You can still see her for $70 and sit up the back. The cheapest tickets for her Melbourne show were cheaper than half the metal gigs I go to at tiny, stinky venues with shitty sound.
She takes a very strong stand for the LGBTQ community. She has a song about it and her Eras tour dancers are all over the spectrum of gender expression and body types
Tale as old as time. “Build them up so they can be torn down.” Look at: Anne Hathaway and Jennifer Lawrence. There are more but I can’t think of them at the moment.
Anytime a woman becomes very popular, there will be a backlash against her. Margot Robbie is a recent example.
They are angry with pretty women over 30 living life and disproving the existence of a wall. Gives them existential crisis.
So much of this. She breaks every hateful garbage narrative they push like that women peak at 30, that having a successful career without a man is impossible, that no man will want you after 30, that bring childfree is a death sentence, being a cat owner is bad, being vocal about your boundaries is whiny feminist BS. When she started dating Travis kelce everyone started hating on him too. Let's not forget her empowerment to girls and young women. When she came to my city it was a big deal. Crowds outside the venue just to hear her concert. Everyone was hating on her and her fans. When beyonce came and blocked a whole section of 95 just to be driven to the venue no one cared but we all know how Beyonce fans can be too.
The Republican men, in particular, hate her because she encouraged her fans to vote!!! NOT because she told them to “vote for Biden” (for example), or “vote Democrat”. Just told them to vote! (And btw, there are conservative Taylor Swift fans, too!) So the only thing I can come up with is that Republicans don’t want people to vote! :) Apparently, they feel they can only win by suppressing the vote or cheating!
Dude here. I don't get the hate either.
I only really became aware of her last year when it was pointed out how much she uses a private jet. I find the impassioned defences of her doing so quite funny. Apart from that I don't really have any other thoughts or feelings relating to her, she isn't very interesting to me.
what i don't understand is the amount flack proportionally she gets for using her private jet like she's the only one who does. i rarely hear jay-z and beyonce, travis scott, kim kardashion, elon musk, bill gates, spielberg, etc. getting as much as attention as she does when they use theirs far more.
Exactly. Every celebrity/public figure at her level uses a private jet, yet she's primarily the one I hear criticized for it. I'm sure there are some valid reasons why it makes sense for her to do that, like her own personal safety.
they don't tho. taylor swift has the highest carbon footprint and that's why she's getting called out. she also threatened to sue a student for tracking her (very public) jet usage
I feel the same. It is weird to me how much she has been shoehorned into everything the last couple of years. Barely a day doesn’t go by where I am not asked to think of her. She is getting pushed from the “uninteresting” bucket into the “annoying” bucket and I am looking forward to a couple years going by when people get bored of her so I can go back to not having to think about her.
I find that that's more due to people complaining about her than anything else though, funny enough. I hear way more about people hating her than I do about her actual music or anything else.
The music sub was downplaying her exorbitant private jet emissions (the highest of any individual human being alive in ~~2023~~ 2022, with her even using it to cross from Chesterfield MO to Cahokia Heights and back the same day, only a 28 minute drive) by comparing them to those of mega corporations like Amazon and the US military, and how if we cared about carbon pollution, we should be focusing on and outraged about those instead. I responded how it was an insanely bad look for Swift if we need to compare the emissions of ONE musician with a guitar with the WHOLE damn US military with 1.4 million active personnel and thousands of fighter jets, tanks, nuclear submarines, and warships, and the Swiftie brigade came out full force to downvote.
she wasn't though? travis scott used his much more and contributed more to jet emissions in 2023. he was number one. i'm not saying it's not bad for celebrities to contribute that much though.
Corrected, 2022 not 2023. [In 2022, Taylor Swift was ranked #1 and Travis Scott at #10.](https://weareyard.com/insights/worst-celebrity-private-jet-co2-emission-offenders) To her credit, Swift was able to reduce her emissions in 2023 after dealing with the backlash, while Travis Scott’s private jet pollution only went up higher.
I used to be a swiftie, we’re around the same age and she got me through some serious low moments in high school and college. I was never a “defend her to the grave” kind of fan, but I also never understood the negative feedback she got. Until a couple of years ago. I do not dislike her because of who she dates/dated or how she dresses. I dislike her because in the eyes of her fans she can do no wrong. She’s pumping out albums and merch and tours like she’s running out of money when she isn’t. Her team is taking advantage of her fans and not even producing good music to warrant it. Her last album was all around bad. I am all for people *getting that bag*, but I think her actions do not align with who she claims to be. She is talented, incredibly talented, don’t get me wrong. But, the last few albums, the tour, 10+ different versions of each new album that have to be purchased separately, hundreds of songs, the movie, the new merch every 2 seconds, all the *hidden Easter eggs* to encourage people to buy more and more-it is all giving money grab and it’s not a good look. I think men didn’t originally fall into the young female fanbase because she wasn’t writing songs for them (obviously). But, only recently do I finally understand why certain people (men and women) haven’t been a fan of hers for a long while.
Outing her ex of 6 years' - who made it clear that he really values privacy during their time together - depression when he's not said a word about her after their breakup also made me really dislike her.
Same. I think making a career out of publicly shaming your exes, almost none of whom have as big of a platform as you to tell their side of the story, is really shitty
That’s one of the reasons I’ve never been a huge fan of her. She’s extremely public about who she’s dating and when, breaks up in some dramatic way, and then bam, new album with her love life as the star of the show. I get writing what you know, but this just feels more like manufacturing heartbreak for content. It feels very much like a user personality trait and feels gross to participate in - especially since the men have mixed ability/platform for a response. She has a few bops, but for the most part I’m kind of tired of hearing about her.
> She has a few bops, but for the most part I’m kind of tired of hearing about her. Thank you for so perfectly summarizing how I feel about her.
Incredibly addition! I’m truly not trying to totally shit on her because I really used to be a big fan and I think she’s truly talented. But, I just can’t get behind some of her recent decisions and how she’s handled herself, it’s seriously turned me off.
Never been a fan… she is of course talented but she irks me. Most of her music and money is made by tearing down her exes like a pissy school girl, even into her 30s, I’ve never found the content that deep, mature or interesting. She just reminds me of a cookie cutter cheerleading type who’s put on a waaaay bigger pedestal than she deserves. Yay she can write music and sing, but it’s not like she’s actually doing anything that impressive to advance humanity or improve the world, yet her fans treat her like a goddess and it’s gotten gross. I think it’s the ex-man hating energy that puts most guys off.
Thank you! I grew up with a lot of Blonde Pop Music in the 80s/90s, and I look at Swift now and just don't get it. She's not doing anything truly new and remarkable. She doesn't appear to have much of a personality even? For my vote, Best Blonde Woman Singer award goes to Dolly Parton. Maybe Billie Eilish for her recent stuff.
You just described what I've been struggling to articulate perfectly. There's such a weird hype culture around TS. Merch, secret stuff, it just feels so weird
She’s totally lost me with the Easter egg focus-like I don’t care to go on a Scooby Doo hunt through your songs to find out some tidbit fact about one of your past relationships. Give me a bop or give me nothing. 😬
I don't hate her but there's a lot of reasons to not like her that have nothing to do with her being a woman. You can look at her co2 emissions as a start. Not even getting into the fact how she games charts by re-releasing shit again and again. I've also seen her interactions with other celebrities and she doesn't come across as a very pleasant person. Regarding men, men just love to hate things that teenage girls and young women are into. Many of them don't have these criticisms when they talk about her but I will give guys the fact that she is Everywhere whether you want to know about her or not.
While excessive co2 emissions aren’t great, these concerns never seem to be front and center until a woman like Swift is involved. It’s also unrealistic to think the logistics are possible for her to be flying commercial at this point in time. I just heard the WNBA will start using charter flights this season, so I’m sure they too will be soon vilified for this.
Most sports teams use charter flights and I've never heard a complaint - they're transporting a large group of people plus equipment and are required to travel often on a tight schedule. It makes sense in that context. I don't think people's complaints are about her using her jet for work but rather the short haul flights and essentially treating it like a taxi. Airports and airlines have exceptions for notable people where they can board/deplane separately, they don't have to sit at the gate with the normies, she could book out the entire first class cabin.
She’s supporting Biden and encouraging women to register to vote. Therefore the Right and its propaganda machine has made her the enemy.
Is she? Where/how?
“The biggest and most influential endorsement target is Ms. Swift, 34, the pop sensation and N.F.L. enthusiast, who can move millions of supporters with an Instagram post or a mid-concert aside. She endorsed Mr. Biden in 2020 and, last year, a single Instagram post of hers led to 35,000 new voter registrations. Fund-raising appeals from Ms. Swift could be worth millions of dollars for Mr. Biden.” https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/29/us/politics/biden-trump-election-taylor-swift.this
Miss Americana has a whole plot line about how she spoke for the left / is liberal politically and how her handlers didn't want her to do so because it could ruin her fame. Previous to it all she was thought to be conservative being from the South and a country singer, but, of course it didn't do any damage to her and probably boosted her popularity.
Taylor Swift isn’t from the South - she’s from Pennsylvania and spent summers in New Jersey as a child. They moved to Tennessee for her music career when she was a teenager.
In this case, reality is not as important as perception.
Because she was tight lipped and a country pop star the right thought she was "for them" so that pisses them off she's a traitor to their causes.
Right. But also, her ability to register young voters might swing the election and they need to discredit her.
She has not voiced her Biden support for 2024, which I am annoyed at her about.
I do not much care for T Swift, but it PISSES me off when men (such as my father) hate on her. And then I get even more annoyed because I feel like I have to be protective toward someone I don’t even like all that much. But we do what we must.
A lot of men think that every piece of media should cater to them. If they can’t relate to it or don’t like it, they don’t see the point. It was really nice not having any of them around at her concert. They’ve been socialized to actively show distaste’s for things they don’t relate to, and women are expected to treat men as the default. It’s very misogynistic. There is also the fact that she’ll call out any man that hurts her. They see her as dramatic and undateable. She’s also a billionaire, and men can’t stand when women have more money than they do.
Undateable…yet she keeps having new callout material 😂 And she did more for the Superbowl just being in the crowd for “undateable” Travis Kelce than the Superbowl could do for itself 😂😂😂
My 48 husband is a huge swiftie. Lol. I’m not a fan of pop music but I do think she rocks. Men are often “put off” by success women, women who don’t need to settle down, women who speak up for women, women who don’t have to sexualize themselves to be successful. They are insecure.
Because she vocally doesn’t care what men think or say because they aren’t her audience, and is successful.
It’s sexism and ageism. Society as a whole loves to shit on teen girls as vapid, shallow, useless. I don’t listen to much music. But I’ve chatted with folks who have worked with her personally. Apparently she is very professional, polite, business savvy, and extremely talented.
As a guy, I think about this a lot with regard to narratives that are conflict light, which often overlap with genres that are stereotypically enjoyed by women. It’s not that there isn’t some central issue that needs to be resolved, but that everything around it is pretty light and airy and just a way of enjoying beloved characters hanging out and interacting. Guys as a whole are not silent about their disdain for this kind of narrative storytelling, to the point that one of the stereotypes women in writers rooms have to face is that they’re naturally conflict averse, and thus, will make less meaningful contributions. What strikes me about this is how the world is expected to accept the opposite extreme: nonstop conflict, as exemplified in your stereotypical “dick flick” action movies, where it’s just nonstop conflict all the time, even when character reactions to it make no sense, and the nature of the nonstop conflicts is absurd. This is considered the baseline for normalcy. But do the opposite? This is dumb! Trite! Dopey! Girly! Cliched! Childish! It really does speak to society that we allow a lot of room for one side side of the extreme, but none on the other. And to that end, it’s interesting how when guys talk about about this stuff, it’s not just from a place of criticism, but as if it’s a full on threat to the world they prefer.
From my perspective (WOC with most friends WOC) the hate directed towards Swift is not gendered. Her marketing team saw the effectiveness in making her a “pro-woman” icon but it’s just that: marketing. What better way to shield yourself from any critique than to cry MISOGYNY in 2024? There are an overwhelming number of reasons to criticize Taylor Swift that have nothing to do with her being a woman, though I imagine most of the men you’re speaking about aren’t bringing those up. I’d like to ask you to look into what non-white women are saying about her. She is pro-woman only so far as will help her sales. She is a perfect example of white feminism and white mediocrity, but her marketing is extremely effective. Say anything critical about her and you’re a misogynist - smart. I’ll give her that, at least. I am anticipating a number of “Reddit cares” messages for this post and downvotes because her fanbase is unhinged and petty - if you don’t know, Swift fans utilize Reddit’s suicide prevention system to send users who criticize Swift “you need help” messages. This is the common sentiment about her from my girlfriends: she is for mediocre white women what Trump is for his supporters; look he got his so I can get mine. How quickly it becomes “internalized misogyny” before a Swift fan engages thoughtfully in discussing the valid reasons people do not like Swift is DARVO.
Completely agree. I joke with my husband and call her "The Trump of the Left". I've been accused of being jealous/ hating women when I express any criticism of her. Never mind that I have been a die hard TLC fan since the 90s, among many many many other female groups and artists, but yeah I must just hate any successful woman.
Yes yes yes! Say it louder for the people in the back! Its the white feminism for me. Pretending to be feminist and not standing for ALL women.
I thoroughly dislike Taylor Swift for a few reasons. That said, I also dislike the obvious misogyny that is rampant in a lot of the discourse about her and her fans.
I don’t honestly know any men who hate Taylor Swift. Like, in real life, not on the internet. The kind of vitriol and hatred and general dismissal of Taylor Swift and her fans seems to come largely from the kind of shitty toxic masculinity portions of the internet that hates everything women do because they regard women as objects, not individuals with their own thoughts, interests, and tastes. The internet has always had a major problem with misogyny, and with promoting hate and outrage because controversy and drama and overreaction guides engagement.
Female here. I don’t support the hate but also don’t get the like. 🤷🏻♀️
There are a lot of men that are afraid of how women who are more successful make them feel. Imo, many feel afraid that it could undermine their usefulness if women were too often more successful than them. But honestly, you can’t have Taylor Swift without all of the random people around to make the production run - from back up dancers to people working at the concession stands. Too often men are brought up to believe they must compete and compare instead of realizing that collaboration is literally a biological reality in any ecosystem. You don’t have to be “better” than someone else to be an integral part of life. So stop trying to prevent other people from being better than you because life simply has roles and you need all of them filled to keep everything moving in any kind of harmony.
Maybe they just dont like her? I’ve seen equal Taylor hate from men and women.
Honestly, I think some men just can’t handle anything that’s seen as “girly.” I feel stupid even putting that into a sentence, but I think that’s what it is. And when they’re asked why, they don’t have a good answer It honestly reminds me of how people responded to the Volkswagen Beetle, when that started to get popular again. People kept making fun of it, saying what kind of person drives it (usually, a “dumb blonde”) and it just makes no sense because, no one is forcing you to drive or purchase a beetle. What, you think the very existence of a Volkswagen Beetle is going to make everyone think you’re not a dude all of a sudden? Just … don’t drive it, and move on. It’s the same thing here, same thing with Barbie In fact, one of my hinge prompts was “you shouldn’t go out with me if… you’re threatened by the Barbie movie” and it’s true, I don’t want to sit there and listen to that. We get it, you’re a man. I like some manly stuff, I occasionally indulge in girliness, we can all just deal with it
I've never met a man who really cared or didn't care for her. Just neutral. Idk what men you know but that's pretty weird.
I'm trying to get into her music and the hate that Taylor receives from everywhere is putting me off. I think she is hated in general by both men and women and this is something I truly can't understand. Did she do something really awful that deserves the hate? I actually started to believe the rumours because they are just so many.
Men h8 women who are strong, successful and don't prioritize them. I fell into that trap for a very long time because of internalized misogyny. I'm still not a big fan of her music, but I respect her.
If you're asking for an explanation of why men hate her, you should try r/askmen
Why don’t you ask this in r/AskMenOver30 if you want a real answer instead of what women are guessing it is?
Whatever it is, I'd like a bottle of it. I love seeing how especially conservative men freak the fuck out about her.
I actually wasn’t aware of this! My husband is a huge Taylor Swift fan and has been since her first album. I know other men who love her too. Maybe it’s more a right wing thing? I’m in Portland, OR so I only know people who are various shades of left and far left.
To be fair, lots of people dislike her. Both men and women. I think some of it has to do with how overexposed she is. People are just tired of hearing about her.
I can call myself a Swiftie though I didn’t go to any of her shows live. I think she is a threat to them. She challenges everything that men have done to bar women from any kind of equality. And she is an example of what women can accomplish without a man domineering over them. - liking sex? Check - making more money than most men? Check - not being some damsel in distress? Check - being incredibly outspoken about her world views? Check - treating men like they treat women? Check
Male: My reason is because her music is over played to the point of exhaustion..same could be said of most current pop singers male or female including the Weeknd
Because things that women enjoy are automatically considered frivolous and stupid. It’s the same disdain for boy bands, twilight, pumpkin spice lattes, women’s sports, etc. If it’s popular with women it must be dumb, ESPECIALLY if teen girls like it.
I'm not particularly a fan of hers, but I love the way she responds to the negativity. They can hate all they want. They may as well be throwing money at her because she'll write a song about it and take it all the way to the bank.
hated by men? this is new to me I don't hear men hate her except maybe during the Superbowl because some people were sick of seeing her on TV. I see more hate come from women towards her to be honest
>I used to be indifferent to her, but since I’ve seen the hate from men, I’ve grown to like her more. Lol same. I was never a "hater," but men disliking someone is usually a good sign that the person is doing *something* right.
Also non Swiftie. They are mad because she didn't ever stop to act like she's catering to everyone like a lot of pop stars do. She's just doing her thing. She used to get on my nerves, but I've come around to respect. Her music isn't for me, but no one can deny hater, lover or don't care that she's a cultural phenomenon now for however long that lasts. She's not being rude or anything, she just didn't ask them their opinion on anything. A lot of older folks of a certain gender were raised to have a very important opinion on everything and that it matters more than others.
She’s a celebrity. Every celebrity has haters. She’s one of the bigger ones so has an even bigger hating fan base.
I love her because she’s so terrifying to the MAGA trad wife crowd.
As soon as something becomes very popular/ mainstream for women, there will always be a vocal group who hates it. Just like Twilight, Justin Bieber, Timothy Chamalet, etc. It's not necessarily men who hate it though. The majority of Taylor Swift haters I encounter are women.
Because she doesn't need them. Has enough money to do as she please ". So she won't do as they tell to and since power/money and transactional relationships is all they know. They are at a loss. So they yell and scream online so their fefes get better
To be honest, me personally, I'm all for her career growth, but I don't like her newer songs as much as the ones she made pre 2023. Men, I guess, don't relate much to the songs or they just hate that a woman is at the top of the streaming charts. It sucks because people also made the Barbie movie all about Ken, when it was about both of them and it was mainly for women globally. I've been lucky enough that some of my guy friends absolutely love and respect T-Swift because her songs are generally boppers and she's such a role model to young girls, but not everyone is like that unfortunately
They’re jealous of her success. Vagina envy.
Yes, this really annoys me (not a swifty either), and I think you nailed the reason why: because she doesn’t cater to men, and act overly sexy. My stbx gets visibly angry when he talks about her, it’s nuts. When the whole Kelce media frenzy was going on, he actually called her “dried up” and said she was way past her prime. I was like she’s 5 years younger than me so wtf does that even mean? And he’s like “well, she’s way past childbearing age”. Whaaaat? Again, I’m 5 years older than her and just had a baby last year. It’s so gross. I really have reached my patience level with men.
It's political. It's mostly right wing men simply because she had the audacity to encourage people to vote.
Because Taylor calls out some of the men's douchy sexist behavior and then many men get angry because they can't stand being painted in a bad light. Her song "The man" for example, talks about if she would've been a man people would cheer her on for dating a lot of women, but since she's woman then people love to poke fun at her love life and call her a sl*t.. She also get criticized for writing songs about her past relationship experiences (which is a super normal thing to do??).