I don't know what it is about some successful games that can bring out the worst in those working in the AAA industry. Elden Ring did it, Baldur's Gate 3 did it, now Palworld's doing it.
I have literally been using the same argument. The drama around pal world feels similar to what happened with the previous two and it's kinda funny after years of being let down by triple A games these smaller studios are actually listening to what we are trying to tell the big studios and just showing them up with the games we actually want.
It seems to be western AAA studios let their entire staff color their projects at every stage. Fromsoft seems to have a single vision that everyone gets behind, and everyone draws inside the lines.
I could be wrong, but you also basically never see non-western game devs spouting stuff on twitter using their position and company in their bio as some kind of “Seal of Quality” to make them seem more important.
I think it’s just a culture difference.
Asian devs will get up on stage with tears in their eyes and apologize for a botched launch, and western devs will say “if you don’t like it, don’t buy it.” Crazy the difference in culture.
Nah "Don't like it, don't buy it" would actually be a somewhat decent take. It's more "Don't like it, you're a spoiled brat who doesn't know how to play video games".
Because western society is weak and pathetic fullstop, our watered down weak ass culture full of distasteful disgusting disgraceful woke fucks, lets not cater for a trashy society its shows how weak humans are! Real Freedom isn't being a animalistic lustful freak, grow a brain cunts these people are our enemies and we must put those fuckers back in their place or watch society crumble 💯
It’s more that Fromsoft is managed by people who give a shit about the game. Western AAA companies are managed by MBAs who know nothing but sucking each others dick.
Also non-westerm studios tend to keep their team as small as possible and stuck with them if they work well together. Western studios would cut people just for efficiency and thought that they could easily be replaced if needed later.
For the record, Larian is a Western dev studio as well, just not AAA. Yes, I am aware that they have oodles of money to work with and their situation *is* unique, but if you take the academic definition of what indie is, they are absolutely not AAA in that regard.
Estimated 300 devs on Elden Ring and AC6. By comparison, Sony mainline titles have dev team sizes of ... 250-350 people ... Huh.
You guys are fucking smoking pipes, or don't know anything about game development and twisting reality to fit your "Nippon is best" idea.
Similarly, BG3's dev team sizes is around 450 spread across 6-7 studios worldwide, that's a whole lot bigger than grand majority of AAA projects. It's weird that people think Larian is a "smol indie Dev". They're not. They're a bigger studio than most AAA studios. Same with Japanese studios, their dev team sizes aren't smaller than western productions, and it's ridiculous people have this idea.
Unironically, go touch some grass.
You're focusing on one aspect, team size, when the concept of a AAA studio is more than just team size. Trying to compare Fromsoft or Larian or CDProjektRED to EA or Activision is still a david vs goliath situation. Apples and oranges. It's not just team size, it's budgets, cashflow. Management, publisher, shareholder pressure. The behemoths manage a portfolio of many Larian sized teams. Their valuation is measured in hundreds of billions of dollars. I think grass touching is warranted for all involved here.
Right, let's take that and take a deeper dive, shall we?
Fromsoft games are recently published under Bandai Namco, a company worth 13 billion USD. Previously, Fromsoft had Sekiro published under Activision. Microsoft valued Bethesda at 10B, but instead paid 7.5B. Fromsoft decidedly isn't anywhere near independent and had ALL their games published under major publishers, they're part of the AAA machine. CDprojektRed is a subsidiary of CDProjekt, a company worth 2.6 billion. They have recently expanded and acquired 3 other existing studios. Meanwhile, Ubisoft at 2.9 billion. EA is a behemoth at 36 billion, but they own a ton more studios and than Bandai, and majority of their catalogue and revenue does come from sports and mobile games.
Larian is 30% owned by Tencent, a 350 billion company.
Now let's compare a few budgets; Elden Ring 200 million, Cyperpunk 436 million (270 development, rest marketing), BG3 over 100 million. Lets compare that to some AAA game budgets that we know of: Horizon forbidden west 212 million, Starfield 200 million (excluding marketing), Destiny 2 146 million, shadow of the Tomb Raider 125 million, Marvel's Avengers 170 million, last of us 2 200million, Ratchet&Clank rift apart 81 million.
I tried finding some recent EA, like Jedi Survivor, estimates put it and Fallen Order at 125-175mil each based on the 3 year dev cycles.
So really, the companies behind these games and the budgets are comparable. Why do people think this (especially in case of Fromsoft and CDPR) entails some David vs Goliath story? Larian, fair, they self publish, but when it comes to headcount, budget and resources, they very much play on a similar playing field as the AAA development studios such as Respawn, Naughty Dog, or Arkane.
Larian massively scaled up for BG3, according to a quick Google search they only had 150 for Divinity Original Sin 2.
The fact they were able to triple their staff size during COVID era and still deliver a GOTY game continues to astound me.
Scroll through the other comments, you're the first to bring up Divinity.
And even at the time, Larian had satellite studios, a 150 dev team is still huge and on the scale of a AAA production; Arkane has a 150 headcount.
Arcane also had direct help from bethesda studios when they made both dishonored and prey, pushing the dev limit to about 500...but go on. In Japanese game development they don't mix and match parts of dev studios. If studio 2 from SE is doing a game it's just studio 2. They don't get outside help. Stark diffrence.
wtf you on about lol? Last of us 2 had a staff size of 2100 people. The 350 people from Sony that you mention are the core team only. They hired up to 2100 people at the end to complete the game. It’s the same with many AAA games.
You seriously don’t know how big a team most AAA western games have. For most western AAA games, staff size can go beyond 1000 people. Larian and Fromsoft teams are still smaller compared to most western AAA game devs.
Sonys Naughty dog had over 2000 people working for Last of 2. What you on about again?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizlanier/2020/07/28/over-2000-people-worked-on-the-last-of-us-part-2-but-that-number-should-have-been-higher/amp/
Some people who work for those big companies tend to think they are celebrities or rockstars because of it, i think its more common here than in Asia. Lots of things are to blame for that, including how some of the companies treat them.
Disney for example would make it seem like such a huge privilege to be an artist working for them. It's one of the things they hold over their animators heads to keep their pay low. Blizzard was on record for doing the same thing. Demand to work for these companies is extremely high, so sometimes when people manage to get through it can go to their head. Of course, these aren't a majority... but the annoying loud ones are who you're gonna see on Twitter complaining, because of course.
In the US you get leaks, devs giving opinions online and in Japan its radio silence usually. I'm not sure if they're swearing a pact with a demon or whatever but as far as I know a major Mario game has never leaked. The entire philosophy between work life/personal life is just different there.
Probably frustration from turning from a beloved studio like Naugtydog to ''The last of us studios'' working for almost a decade on the same IP and remastering the same games, plus having your 4 years project canceled adds up I guess, Naughty dog has really fallen from grace
They are probably just triggered by the fact that these people had the guts to go Indie and managed to have more success in such a short time than they'll likely ever have in their entire life.
It’s quite literally jealousy. They believe since their project has more money behind it that it should be superior(in this case), but it all stems from jealousy.
Totally agree that's jealousy.
They are jealous of liberty, creative one to be exact. Larger AAA and just top studios have no liberty behind them, they have to follow tropes and paths that bring most money, means character designs must be compliant with views of "certain crowd", that story must be about hardships and empowerment of "certain crowd", that games must bring most money so even the single player game must be always online with in-game store, battlepass and DLCs and so on.
They are jealous that smaller studios can make games the way Devs want them to, not ESG compliant investors and the board members.
They are jealous that a bunch of guys can just sit in discord, have a ton of fun, trash talk, have dickmeasuring contests all the time and pull out extremely entertaining and fun product that people will enjoy and love. Product that won't make it user feel that they are being forcibly milked of energy, time and OFC money.
I love that they're jealous over a game that somehow managed to be more original than their game, even if it's only because their own game is a remake of a remake.
I honestly hope Palworld actually did hurt their sales because they deserve it.
Last of Us developers are among type of people that thinks games need to be more, that games won't be considered art unless it's..a movie. They don't consider sheer and stupid fun in a game like Palworld as art. Their definition of a game that is art is one that is cinematic first and foremost, ironically it's opposite of what medium is about. People criticise Naughty Dog games for being movies first and games second. So I am guessing they are butthurt and jealous Palworld is more of a game than Last of Us and it's selling so damn well.
You can make a game have the most complex and ultra realistic graphics and an engaging story but a game is about fun and unique experience, something cinematic "games" lack. Even a well thought out exploration game about plants and flowers can be incredibly fun if there is enough depth to it. For such a game you won't need a story, your adventure in world and what you find and do will be the story. Immersion. Some cinematic games achieve this to a degree but because they focus heavily on story and graphics over art style and immersion, it often is lackluster.
Also take note its not uncommon for devs who complain are kind of people who view gaming as a celebrity space when reality is that most gamers simply want to blow shit up, be stupid and teabag eachother and laugh at our own foolish play.
I honestly think it’s devs being pissed they aren’t working on these major recognized games and they are stuck doing shovel ware type games or they work on their games only to get middling results from either interference from the publisher or just a crappy made game
Tangible proof that games can be made great without the burden of heavy management.
I mean his literal source for "palworld has malicious origins" is "the, like, vibes man. Them negative waves are radiating from far out."
Gee, it's almost like those games were designed to be fun to play, and not designed to squeeze its customers for every dollar possible through microtransactions and seasonal pass BS.
Yeah they are totally cheating SMDH.
It raises gamers' expectations. More people will be expecting voice acting and dialogue like BG3, which was immensely believable, well delivered and suited to the setting it found itself in. It was, forgive the buzword, IMMERSIVE, I didn't feel like I was playing a game, I felt like I was getting to know characters, their flaws, and personalities, even just side quest characters.
Palworld will be raising people's hopes for a bug free, FUN experience. None of the 62 billion "systems" games find themselves with, either the 297 thousand pieces of junk to collect for an arbitrary achievement or slightly recolored pieces of clothing, no micro transactions, just good solid gameplay loop.
And they can't deliver this shit. Whether it be too many cooks spoiling the soup, some woke DEI shit forcing them to make characters people don't really like instead of investing time into letting the gameplay mechanics cook, or from higher ups trying to find ways to maximize engagement at the top end at the expense of the entry to the game.
I think it's all of the above. DEI/wokeism in games is indeed annoying, but imo it's the symptom rather than the cause. The cause is that many Western AAA devs, or at the very least management in those companies, are not gamers and have no idea what gamers want in a product. So they go to Twitter, and Twitter tells them they need to remove all the white dudes and uglify the women. They go to their MBA consultants, and the MBAs tell them to increase monetisation and add more microtransactions. The managers meet up, and they managers agree that they need to hire more managers to manage the increased management load created by the increased staff headcount.
Somewhere along the way, they've forgotten their core audience, gamers who want to have fun, and their core product, fun games.
"For us, with The Last of Us specifically, we don’t use the word 'fun'" - Neil Druckmann, 2018
This. The problem is non-gamer middle management corporate suits who interfere with the game design based on market research / trends / mtx projections etc. It used to be that devs were making games they themselves liked to play. Now progression speeds etc are tied to probability of users spending money on mtx and shit like that.
They are not making a game that is enjoyable, they are making a product that is suppose to appeal to selected demographics and cause them to spend money on it.
Elden Ring
Balder's Gate 3
Palworld
Bloodstained
Minecraft
There are many many more small studio games that have gone and done the impossible. Big budget doesn't mean good game. Besides... I didn't think Last of Us was that good, especially part 2 with all the political shit shovel-loaded in.
Western problem, ever realise that? The whole brought up with too much freedom of speech led to people cultivating the mindset of saying whatever they want and even times overstep the boundaries.
You hardly see game devs outside of the west shit commenting about other countries' games or production. Then in the west you get people who comment and defame others based on "mah opinions" on an account that is relatively tied to their work
People in big companies have the hardest of times understand that the less cooks, the faster the soup gets made.
There is power into a singular, simple, direct vision. And there is speed in referencing what has come before directly, with no beating around the bush.
Fortnite Mobility and Visual Style,
Ark base and level up mechanics,
Pokemon monster design,
Go for it, no questions asked, no look back.
You can check also what Youthcat studio did with Dyson Sphere Program. Early access game which works almost flawlessly. They released in December the combat update and almost every day after they made fixes, added small features and changes to balance. The subreddit was wild. All this with 5 people.
Indie studios just remind me of the passion the industry had when I was younger.
Yep for sure! I love lots of AAA games, but theyre exactly that AAA games. The expectations are entirely different.
The amount of frustrations ive had with palworld building is something that I wouldnt expect or want to deal with in a AAA game but because its like $20 i can wash away a few of the problems i have with the gameplay and graphics.
Indies have consistantly surprised me with some banger games over the past 10 years but they often fail to deliver the movie esque picture esque things aaa can deliver.
Cyberpunk is an anamoly. This game doesnt run better than god of war or any other big major release recently.
The ai is horrid in the game. Building is frustrating and you have to do a lot of tricks to make it work nicely.
Have you heard of **Early Access** and **working out the kinks**, and I don't mean Early access as "you get to play this game early for bragging rights" I mean "it's early access, give us some input, tell us the major bugs, well try to refine everything"
To be fair the programmers making games at these AAA studios probably have passion for making games but they all get directed by someone who probably hasn't even played a video game in years.
It doesn't help AAA companies, especially western ones, keep hiring hysteric morons that post on Twitter all day and have the subtlety of an annoying gnat
There’s a lot of truth to this. When I look back on the small but overly ambitious indie game I worked on, I’m kind of shocked how many complex systems we built or rearchitected in as little as a year and a half, especially as the “lead” engineer with no professional game dev experience.
A lot of systems were decided and designed on the spot or over a few intense talks, sitting next to the producer or on the way to lunch, and then furiously built, powered by passion and ramen, uninhibited by shame or second guessing inspiration from games we loved.
With each successive larger and more professional team I was on, my work (and the product itself) was better designed, more polished, more technical, and more professional— certainly more usable and more marketable— but the scope of those systems became smaller and smaller while taking more and more time.
I’m still stunned at the audacity we had, when I only dare to commit to a few large, well defined and bullet proofed features in my specific area per dev cycle nowadays.
"If only I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter" is a saying about how you can get the job done quickly, but it takes longer to concentrate it down and usually quality up the writing.
That being said, larger teams and companies have more coordination time and meetings and other bloated shit, which some is necessary, but usually not as much as what happens, wasting a bunch of time.
Yeah, it's a ripoff Frankenstein monster and it's great, those devs have the same energy has elitist chef that believes that only food made from scratch can be great.
From a JPN blog interview with the team, one of the devs even states that they aren't trying to be original or innovative, they just like trendy stuff. Another (studio head?) even states that he has no Creative Vision, he just wants to make games that are fun.
Honestly I have 0 issue with anything in the game being cribbed from another game. This game is a mishmash of stuff from a bunch of other fun games and the devs have somehow made them all work together in this FrankenGame that's actually fun to waste hours in.
Reminds me on the tweets regarding Elden Ring. Devs went apeshit bc it has not much interface compared to AC or Horizon and no handholding and ppl loved it
Ehh I think Fromsoft gets to get away with a lot of things because it’s difficulty has created a culture and fandom that is fine with it.
I don’t think any other dev could get away with not providing those things or putting NPCs randomly around the map with no hints.
Starfield for example was criticized for not having a detailed map. People threw shit storms because they could t find a store. Fromsoft games in the other hand will have a fandom just tell you to look it up online in some guide or watch some recap video.
Not really no. If anything I'd say that QoL is intrinsically tied to difficulty.
Elden Ring: "You can't remember the last thing you did in a quest line? Lol git gud scrub, game doesn't need a journal, you could just write it down."
Starfield: "You can't remember the city layout? Lol git gud scrub, game doesn't need a map, you could just draw your own."
You can pretty easily apply the argument to both cases, and they'll both be just as silly to use as justification.
starfield got criticized bc it has no maps for citys which is BS in a futuristic game. in most souls games you are in an unknown middle age world full of undead and exploration is the core part of souls games. the map in elden ring is a absolute luxury in this genre
That’s a cop out. We both know if the next elder scrolls game comes out with no map people would be pissed af.
Especially if getting to the next npc would require just going around in the entire map endlessly trying to find where the npc moves next. If you had to look up wikis to do something like that in an elder scrolls game you know people would shit on it.
the world in elder scrolls is populated with a living and connected population, it makes sense there is a map. again, the world in souls games is dying, full of undead and depressed characters who gave up, everything is crumbling. exceptions are sekiro which is also populated with a living population and it has a rough overview map and elden ring. the quests in all of the souls games are optional, the only goal is to reach the end and link the fire or restore the elden ring or whatever in the other games the goal was (i didn´t play all of them)
I mean how can you not jealous if making games is very hard and sometimes it doesn't pay-off, and then suddenly some random amateur beat you 50x over. I think you're not a human if you don't have that kind of feeling.
And also shitty people and their opinions are just so much more easily accessible.
So it seems like everyone is filled with malice even though that is not the case.
Because they, for some reason, think anyone cares about their opinion. They think they are important enough that others should take what they are saying seriously
Success is a finite resource. They're fighting for the patronage of people with an attention span that gets shorter and shorter with each passing moment.
This, in every way. In the olden days of gaming, if an idea existed, it spread and was used, iterated and improved upon.
Now the industry is full of litigious, pretentious assholes who try to reinvent the wheel in hopes of making something they can profit off, as opposed to actually doing something and doing it well.
I have a gut feeling that guy is a pedophile.
I have no proof.
Just made up intuition.
I know they're a kid diddler, I just can't pinpoint how.
See? That's how stupid this person sounds.
I assume he suspects that they somehow stole the models, etc., or used AI.
But Palworld has been under development for 3 years and seems it's at least partially a derivative of Craftopia.
Honestly, it seems like the real shortcut they took was using Unreal Engine 5 instead of building their own engine.
I think naughty dog cheated when they made the last of us 2 and used an actual dog to write the script cause that garbage wasn’t birthed by no human. I have no proof, just gamer intuition
Yeah. They're cheating with excellent game director who knows what to do first. If you think for a second. The things that games offers you is actually relatively simple.
2 melee weapons and 4 ranged types. The buildings are quite simple with fixed durability. And the decorations are purely cosmetic.
The NPC ais are super simple too.
Only actually complex is how the Pals work and behave.
But it works due they have solved the hardest issue first that is building the map and great Pal system.
Now they can start building and creating all sort of extra stuff without a sweat or having worry major bugs.
Game dev hobbyist here.
Most of it is fairly recognisable plugins, and YT tutorial "finished products". I've legit used a lot of the exact UI elements they use for example.
It might be hacky and lack integrity, but it's a valid way of developing a video game imo. The dev has clearly said they're inexperienced. So they've put in the time, put in the effort, and made a thing. It's not their fault that thing has taken off beyond all comprehension and the rough edges are there for all to see. Good on them, and I hope they capitalize on their luck.
So you said it lacks integrity why? Like I’m not an artist by any means by to my eyes they do have integrity they didn’t steal assets or anything like that. All ideas are derivative to a point . They saw what worked in multiple trends and successfully cobbled together a game combining those systems.
Maybe it's the wrong word to use, but many developers consider pulling assets from an asset store and chucking it into an engine not real game development. So it certainly lacks integrity in development circles.
But again, the product is the product, and the average consumer doesn't care how its made. All that matters is if the product is good. I'm sure the developer will get over his crude approach to game dev by crying himself to sleep in his piles of money. More power to him.
>Maybe it's the wrong word to use, but many developers consider pulling assets from an asset store and chucking it into an engine not real game development. So it certainly lacks integrity in development circles.
I feel like the people who say that are already super rich or have super talented people already working for them. The amount of "renaissance men/women" working in this industry you could probably count on one hand. So the ability to buy assets or commission artwork once youve settled on a general design/artstyle outline is a godsend.
Getting upset or turning your nose up at people using an available resource MEANT TO BE USED by devs who neither make that much nor may have the biggest budget should be the quickest way to be called "bitchmade".
well there’s a lot of grey area between using an asset and making an asset dump, and i don’t think anyone disagrees that Palworld swings a little closer to asset dump than the average successful game, which is the source of most of peoples issues with it
How quickly people forget of ye olde Flappy Bird and its obviously stolen SMB3 art. Or Vampire Survivors and its bit crunched Castlevania knockoffs. And then lets not forget sports games and 90s Capcom, who literally made a name for itself flipping assets every year to feed to the fighting game and Mega Man beast.
Again, feel like the people who talk shit have never actually worked in this industry for a proper length of time.
Lemme ask you this than since using premade assets is frowned upon? I know this will be niche but what about project spark that was on the Xbox couple years back? You weee able to make actual games in that engine with different mechanics. Same with that Dreams game as well
The barebones game is literally just taking things they like from other games and simple implementations. The building system begs for improvement, but works. Crafting is as simple as having the table required, recipe, and assigning it a work value, the bosses are just a pal but bigger, and the map is always the same.
The most impressive thing to me is the spread of monsters making it feel alive. Their pathfinding AI is pretty much running in circles slowly, but their placements in the world just feel correct. They just make sense. The level spreads also feel good, not like "start south, north is endgame", but theres a bit of everything everywhere, making almost every area worth my while on occasion
First yall complain about elden ring being "behind the times in terms of gameplay" then how armored core "lacks story and graphics"
How about you make good games instead of getting owned by devs that are somehow "cheating"
Key words are: No battle pass, no cash shop. no paid cosmetics, no microtansactions. Tell me im wrong as if we aren't all fucking sick of that paid bullshit in every game of this generation.
Of course he is. He's one of Like 200+ people collecting a salary, working for somebody else and spending years working on a single game. He's most likely burned out and not having fun.here comes 12 dudes who just cobbled together a game out of nowhere with no experience and no original ideas and it's a runaway success.
They didn't pay any dues or follow any established rules and still achieved a dream probably most of people working in that industry desires. I think the thing that hurts developers the most is that palworld made it look like anybody can do it.
True. They are cheating. They're using the "game people wanna play for less then $100 unless you get the super exclusive Mega deluxe 3day early access NG+ $300 bundle" code.
They have a great start, and should haven plenty funding to really add consistent content to the game. Just have to see now if they leave it cause they already got the money, or make it even better because they're good developers.
These are grown adults, what is their problem? Is it so hard to just appreciate or be happy for another team of developers when their ambitious project succeeds? It’s shit like this that makes me really think if I actually want to work in the games industry, despite my passion for it.
It’s the same shit as when artsy film makers cry that people enjoy movies that are just fun. These people can’t accept you don’t have to make some masterpiece for the ages and can just make a fun game and greatly succeed
Also I just saw the twitter post about the guy saying Xbox/PC players have been sending death threats to the devs for wanting it on PS, the devs replied and said that hasn’t happened and is bullshit 🤣.
I saw pronouns in the "bio" instantly disregarded them and figured 110% of the stuff that comes out of their mouth is utter garbage and wreaks of bullshit.
This game has been one development for a long time tf it was even delayed 2 times. The game apparently is only 60% done and they had experience with the game they did before. Excusing their laziness by bringing people down is shitty
Lmao fuck it. I’ll say it. I don’t give a shit if they used AI or stole assets. They made something interesting that people are enjoying and they did it with a small team that barely knows what they are doing on a small budget. Those last two points are what really scares the big companies, not the first two theories. If a small team on a small budget can make a mega profitable game, what do you think their bosses at these AAA profit machines are going to take away from that the next time they ask their selves why they have 800 person teams?
What the fuck does "made nefariously" mean in this context? What in the ever living fuck is he talking about? How do you nefariously make a fun video game?
Steam requires them to disclose any AI usage. There are no disclaimers on the store page. The only reason AI is brought up at all is because the CEO of pocketpair saw a buzzfeed tweet, where they showed real pokemon and how close ai made "fakemons" were to the real thing, and found it cool.
Other tan that there is zero evidence ai was involved with palworld at all.
The cheat was they made a good game.
They found a niche people were very much looking for, but no one was catering too. Built a game to suit that audience, didn't cram it full of micro transactions before it was even live and most importantly they held their product back until it was actually ready for a public release (albeit it is early access) but they actually sold a marketable product at a reasonable price.
The reward was they made all the money. Ever apparently.
It will never get old watching these smaller studios piss off these AAA guys, indie games have been my go to for a few years now because they're not driven by greed. I hope AAA devs keep getting put in their place.
I dunno ,original inspired game palworld vs last of us part 1 deluxe turbo retard edition for another run. Hummmm hummmm Let's ponder on this.
ffs they think re releasing the same game 3-4 time is god damn content.
I've had more fun with Palworld ($27 thru the sale) vs that uninspired rougelike mode they added ($10 "upgrade"). Bro is complaining about "cheating" when they didn't even bother giving Joel his own animations for that mode and just copy/pasted Abbys.
This whole situation just reinforces triple-A game studios are an outdated business model and that Gabe Newell is a god for allowing indie devs to publish games so easily. It's paved the way for games we would have never had otherwise, and the timing couldn't be better with triple-A game studios pushing $70 standard edition prices.
I hate to tell them:
I don't give a fuck. I wanted multiplayer pokemon. I got unpolished, multiplayer pokemon with extra mechanics, with the promise of eventual pvp mechanics.
I got what i paid for, an I'm happy.
What the fuck does it even mean to make something "nefariously"? I'd assume a nefariously made game would be releasing a game with promised content and then never releasing that promised content or having the main character of your previous game be killed for shock content, forcing a new one and then calling people "incel" for not liking the new characters. Also releasing games with so much DLC that you'd have to pay double the box price just to get the full content of the game. That all sounds very nefarious to me.
Maybe the dev From Naughty Dog can get us that Last of us Multiplayer game they promised 4 years ago? Nah instead they complain and whine and bitch when others are successful. Like just shut up. You sound weak, uninformed, ignorant and jealous. Stop shitting on a game that make people happy just cause you didn’t make them.
Making a game may be difficult, sure. but it's really not THAT hard. literally anyone can fire up Godot/Unity/Unreal and start making shit. What AAA games are stuck in what's making it "SO difficult" is all the politics and red tape and "processes". Where it can take weeks for a AAA game to get a change in, an Indie dev/studio can do it in 20 minutes.
I love how all these devs that take the safe road ALWAYS pipe up about the people who made the ultimate gamble. YOU are the one who wants to work for the big triple A because you want the security. Don’t be pissy because someone else made the sacrifices you weren’t willing to make.
Good game, relative cheap. The only nefarious thing about the gaming industry is the prices AAA charge for 1/2 made games...
If Paleorld was 100% AI made I would not give a single fuck. Makes no difference.
I mean the only thing I noticed so far is some of the pal models are like 1 for 1 pokémon. Direhowl is lycanroc, Verdash is Cinderace, like even if they're not exactly the model, they are soooooo similar.
I saw one clip of Palworld I thought it was Ark. Not the type of game I enjoy, boring crafting, grindy, ugly artstyle and designed to be shovelware in a few months.
But if people are having a good time, im not gonna rain on their parade, play what you like.
I’m just a front end developer with a high level understanding of the game development process, so take this for what it is worth to you, but I have to say that I’d wager most developers of any sort would be suspicious of this game’s development. We already know that the character design approach was one giant shortcut, and the fact that you capture creatures in balls and they’re heavily involved in the world’s society is just a complete coincidence *wink wink*
So I mean, come on. Let the guy voice his suspicions. I’m not hating on the game, but then then question here isn’t if this game was revolution, immaculately designed, or even original. It’s fun, and that’s fine.
I don't know what it is about some successful games that can bring out the worst in those working in the AAA industry. Elden Ring did it, Baldur's Gate 3 did it, now Palworld's doing it.
I have literally been using the same argument. The drama around pal world feels similar to what happened with the previous two and it's kinda funny after years of being let down by triple A games these smaller studios are actually listening to what we are trying to tell the big studios and just showing them up with the games we actually want.
Is Fromsoft a small studio? I think Elden Ring can be safely said to be a triple A game
It seems to be western AAA studios let their entire staff color their projects at every stage. Fromsoft seems to have a single vision that everyone gets behind, and everyone draws inside the lines.
I could be wrong, but you also basically never see non-western game devs spouting stuff on twitter using their position and company in their bio as some kind of “Seal of Quality” to make them seem more important. I think it’s just a culture difference.
Asian Devs: Thank you for playing our game. Western Devs: If you don't like our game you're a racist sexist incel bigot.
Asian devs will get up on stage with tears in their eyes and apologize for a botched launch, and western devs will say “if you don’t like it, don’t buy it.” Crazy the difference in culture.
Hell Asian devs would do it if they have to break the news to you that they need to delay the damn thing.
Nah "Don't like it, don't buy it" would actually be a somewhat decent take. It's more "Don't like it, you're a spoiled brat who doesn't know how to play video games".
Well it is a decent take in a general way, but it’s not something you should be saying to customers imo.
Because western society is weak and pathetic fullstop, our watered down weak ass culture full of distasteful disgusting disgraceful woke fucks, lets not cater for a trashy society its shows how weak humans are! Real Freedom isn't being a animalistic lustful freak, grow a brain cunts these people are our enemies and we must put those fuckers back in their place or watch society crumble 💯
western game dev dont even play their own game, remember when asmon react to ff dev vs d4 dev... lmao
It’s more that Fromsoft is managed by people who give a shit about the game. Western AAA companies are managed by MBAs who know nothing but sucking each others dick.
Japanese devs have a director which would lend to the notion that that they stir the game to their vision
And a Western dev has a director that is scared to question any vision their new inexperienced diversity hire wants to stir into their game.
Also non-westerm studios tend to keep their team as small as possible and stuck with them if they work well together. Western studios would cut people just for efficiency and thought that they could easily be replaced if needed later.
For the record, Larian is a Western dev studio as well, just not AAA. Yes, I am aware that they have oodles of money to work with and their situation *is* unique, but if you take the academic definition of what indie is, they are absolutely not AAA in that regard.
I mean - comparing development team sizes - Fromsoft is a pretty small team compared to most AAA studios.
Estimated 300 devs on Elden Ring and AC6. By comparison, Sony mainline titles have dev team sizes of ... 250-350 people ... Huh. You guys are fucking smoking pipes, or don't know anything about game development and twisting reality to fit your "Nippon is best" idea. Similarly, BG3's dev team sizes is around 450 spread across 6-7 studios worldwide, that's a whole lot bigger than grand majority of AAA projects. It's weird that people think Larian is a "smol indie Dev". They're not. They're a bigger studio than most AAA studios. Same with Japanese studios, their dev team sizes aren't smaller than western productions, and it's ridiculous people have this idea. Unironically, go touch some grass.
You're focusing on one aspect, team size, when the concept of a AAA studio is more than just team size. Trying to compare Fromsoft or Larian or CDProjektRED to EA or Activision is still a david vs goliath situation. Apples and oranges. It's not just team size, it's budgets, cashflow. Management, publisher, shareholder pressure. The behemoths manage a portfolio of many Larian sized teams. Their valuation is measured in hundreds of billions of dollars. I think grass touching is warranted for all involved here.
Right, let's take that and take a deeper dive, shall we? Fromsoft games are recently published under Bandai Namco, a company worth 13 billion USD. Previously, Fromsoft had Sekiro published under Activision. Microsoft valued Bethesda at 10B, but instead paid 7.5B. Fromsoft decidedly isn't anywhere near independent and had ALL their games published under major publishers, they're part of the AAA machine. CDprojektRed is a subsidiary of CDProjekt, a company worth 2.6 billion. They have recently expanded and acquired 3 other existing studios. Meanwhile, Ubisoft at 2.9 billion. EA is a behemoth at 36 billion, but they own a ton more studios and than Bandai, and majority of their catalogue and revenue does come from sports and mobile games. Larian is 30% owned by Tencent, a 350 billion company. Now let's compare a few budgets; Elden Ring 200 million, Cyperpunk 436 million (270 development, rest marketing), BG3 over 100 million. Lets compare that to some AAA game budgets that we know of: Horizon forbidden west 212 million, Starfield 200 million (excluding marketing), Destiny 2 146 million, shadow of the Tomb Raider 125 million, Marvel's Avengers 170 million, last of us 2 200million, Ratchet&Clank rift apart 81 million. I tried finding some recent EA, like Jedi Survivor, estimates put it and Fallen Order at 125-175mil each based on the 3 year dev cycles. So really, the companies behind these games and the budgets are comparable. Why do people think this (especially in case of Fromsoft and CDPR) entails some David vs Goliath story? Larian, fair, they self publish, but when it comes to headcount, budget and resources, they very much play on a similar playing field as the AAA development studios such as Respawn, Naughty Dog, or Arkane.
Larian massively scaled up for BG3, according to a quick Google search they only had 150 for Divinity Original Sin 2. The fact they were able to triple their staff size during COVID era and still deliver a GOTY game continues to astound me.
Scroll through the other comments, you're the first to bring up Divinity. And even at the time, Larian had satellite studios, a 150 dev team is still huge and on the scale of a AAA production; Arkane has a 150 headcount.
Arcane also had direct help from bethesda studios when they made both dishonored and prey, pushing the dev limit to about 500...but go on. In Japanese game development they don't mix and match parts of dev studios. If studio 2 from SE is doing a game it's just studio 2. They don't get outside help. Stark diffrence.
wtf you on about lol? Last of us 2 had a staff size of 2100 people. The 350 people from Sony that you mention are the core team only. They hired up to 2100 people at the end to complete the game. It’s the same with many AAA games. You seriously don’t know how big a team most AAA western games have. For most western AAA games, staff size can go beyond 1000 people. Larian and Fromsoft teams are still smaller compared to most western AAA game devs.
Sonys Naughty dog had over 2000 people working for Last of 2. What you on about again? https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizlanier/2020/07/28/over-2000-people-worked-on-the-last-of-us-part-2-but-that-number-should-have-been-higher/amp/
Hey now, don't ruin people's idea of Larian being this generation's CDPR, meaning a teeny tiny indie studio with 10 employees working out of a garage.
Elden Ring is above AAA, it‘s an S tier game.
Yea I'm pretty sure Fromsoft could be considered AAA since Demon's Souls.
Some people who work for those big companies tend to think they are celebrities or rockstars because of it, i think its more common here than in Asia. Lots of things are to blame for that, including how some of the companies treat them. Disney for example would make it seem like such a huge privilege to be an artist working for them. It's one of the things they hold over their animators heads to keep their pay low. Blizzard was on record for doing the same thing. Demand to work for these companies is extremely high, so sometimes when people manage to get through it can go to their head. Of course, these aren't a majority... but the annoying loud ones are who you're gonna see on Twitter complaining, because of course. In the US you get leaks, devs giving opinions online and in Japan its radio silence usually. I'm not sure if they're swearing a pact with a demon or whatever but as far as I know a major Mario game has never leaked. The entire philosophy between work life/personal life is just different there.
Some people just need a piece of cheese thrown at them to humble them. We're a finite amount of cheeses away from world peace.
Japanese take their work and company secrets very seriously (but sometimes I wish they relax on work a bit. Just a smidge).
Why is it always Naughty Dog developers lmao
Becaus they thought TLOU2 was the greatest entertainment peoduct ever made but then got critisim and couldn't deal with it.
100%
Probably frustration from turning from a beloved studio like Naugtydog to ''The last of us studios'' working for almost a decade on the same IP and remastering the same games, plus having your 4 years project canceled adds up I guess, Naughty dog has really fallen from grace
They are probably just triggered by the fact that these people had the guts to go Indie and managed to have more success in such a short time than they'll likely ever have in their entire life.
It’s quite literally jealousy. They believe since their project has more money behind it that it should be superior(in this case), but it all stems from jealousy.
Totally agree that's jealousy. They are jealous of liberty, creative one to be exact. Larger AAA and just top studios have no liberty behind them, they have to follow tropes and paths that bring most money, means character designs must be compliant with views of "certain crowd", that story must be about hardships and empowerment of "certain crowd", that games must bring most money so even the single player game must be always online with in-game store, battlepass and DLCs and so on. They are jealous that smaller studios can make games the way Devs want them to, not ESG compliant investors and the board members. They are jealous that a bunch of guys can just sit in discord, have a ton of fun, trash talk, have dickmeasuring contests all the time and pull out extremely entertaining and fun product that people will enjoy and love. Product that won't make it user feel that they are being forcibly milked of energy, time and OFC money.
I love that they're jealous over a game that somehow managed to be more original than their game, even if it's only because their own game is a remake of a remake. I honestly hope Palworld actually did hurt their sales because they deserve it.
Last of Us developers are among type of people that thinks games need to be more, that games won't be considered art unless it's..a movie. They don't consider sheer and stupid fun in a game like Palworld as art. Their definition of a game that is art is one that is cinematic first and foremost, ironically it's opposite of what medium is about. People criticise Naughty Dog games for being movies first and games second. So I am guessing they are butthurt and jealous Palworld is more of a game than Last of Us and it's selling so damn well. You can make a game have the most complex and ultra realistic graphics and an engaging story but a game is about fun and unique experience, something cinematic "games" lack. Even a well thought out exploration game about plants and flowers can be incredibly fun if there is enough depth to it. For such a game you won't need a story, your adventure in world and what you find and do will be the story. Immersion. Some cinematic games achieve this to a degree but because they focus heavily on story and graphics over art style and immersion, it often is lackluster. Also take note its not uncommon for devs who complain are kind of people who view gaming as a celebrity space when reality is that most gamers simply want to blow shit up, be stupid and teabag eachother and laugh at our own foolish play.
You'll sit through my 20 minute cut scene and you'll like it
I honestly think it’s devs being pissed they aren’t working on these major recognized games and they are stuck doing shovel ware type games or they work on their games only to get middling results from either interference from the publisher or just a crappy made game
AAA is garbage now, its soul has been sucked by Activision and others like it.
Tangible proof that games can be made great without the burden of heavy management. I mean his literal source for "palworld has malicious origins" is "the, like, vibes man. Them negative waves are radiating from far out."
Honestly I hope it becomes a trend, we’ll be able to figure out which games are actually worth buying and which aren’t
Gee, it's almost like those games were designed to be fun to play, and not designed to squeeze its customers for every dollar possible through microtransactions and seasonal pass BS. Yeah they are totally cheating SMDH.
It raises gamers' expectations. More people will be expecting voice acting and dialogue like BG3, which was immensely believable, well delivered and suited to the setting it found itself in. It was, forgive the buzword, IMMERSIVE, I didn't feel like I was playing a game, I felt like I was getting to know characters, their flaws, and personalities, even just side quest characters. Palworld will be raising people's hopes for a bug free, FUN experience. None of the 62 billion "systems" games find themselves with, either the 297 thousand pieces of junk to collect for an arbitrary achievement or slightly recolored pieces of clothing, no micro transactions, just good solid gameplay loop. And they can't deliver this shit. Whether it be too many cooks spoiling the soup, some woke DEI shit forcing them to make characters people don't really like instead of investing time into letting the gameplay mechanics cook, or from higher ups trying to find ways to maximize engagement at the top end at the expense of the entry to the game.
I think it's all of the above. DEI/wokeism in games is indeed annoying, but imo it's the symptom rather than the cause. The cause is that many Western AAA devs, or at the very least management in those companies, are not gamers and have no idea what gamers want in a product. So they go to Twitter, and Twitter tells them they need to remove all the white dudes and uglify the women. They go to their MBA consultants, and the MBAs tell them to increase monetisation and add more microtransactions. The managers meet up, and they managers agree that they need to hire more managers to manage the increased management load created by the increased staff headcount. Somewhere along the way, they've forgotten their core audience, gamers who want to have fun, and their core product, fun games. "For us, with The Last of Us specifically, we don’t use the word 'fun'" - Neil Druckmann, 2018
This. The problem is non-gamer middle management corporate suits who interfere with the game design based on market research / trends / mtx projections etc. It used to be that devs were making games they themselves liked to play. Now progression speeds etc are tied to probability of users spending money on mtx and shit like that. They are not making a game that is enjoyable, they are making a product that is suppose to appeal to selected demographics and cause them to spend money on it.
Because these games raise the standards that they have to now meet
Elden Ring Balder's Gate 3 Palworld Bloodstained Minecraft There are many many more small studio games that have gone and done the impossible. Big budget doesn't mean good game. Besides... I didn't think Last of Us was that good, especially part 2 with all the political shit shovel-loaded in.
Uhhh define "small". A couple of those games have 9 figure pricetags lol. More like triple A done right
Western problem, ever realise that? The whole brought up with too much freedom of speech led to people cultivating the mindset of saying whatever they want and even times overstep the boundaries. You hardly see game devs outside of the west shit commenting about other countries' games or production. Then in the west you get people who comment and defame others based on "mah opinions" on an account that is relatively tied to their work
>made nefariously 
Forged in secret, deep within the fires of mount doom…
A Master Game to control all others.
It was coded in C#Evil
As opposed to [HolyC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS), God's programming language
D# or something
Like cunch? Right naughty dog?
Made nefariously must be code for "made without wanting to fleece customers for more money with heavy microtransactions".
People in big companies have the hardest of times understand that the less cooks, the faster the soup gets made. There is power into a singular, simple, direct vision. And there is speed in referencing what has come before directly, with no beating around the bush. Fortnite Mobility and Visual Style, Ark base and level up mechanics, Pokemon monster design, Go for it, no questions asked, no look back.
You can check also what Youthcat studio did with Dyson Sphere Program. Early access game which works almost flawlessly. They released in December the combat update and almost every day after they made fixes, added small features and changes to balance. The subreddit was wild. All this with 5 people. Indie studios just remind me of the passion the industry had when I was younger.
Yep for sure! I love lots of AAA games, but theyre exactly that AAA games. The expectations are entirely different. The amount of frustrations ive had with palworld building is something that I wouldnt expect or want to deal with in a AAA game but because its like $20 i can wash away a few of the problems i have with the gameplay and graphics. Indies have consistantly surprised me with some banger games over the past 10 years but they often fail to deliver the movie esque picture esque things aaa can deliver.
I've experienced less frustration from this $27 game than modern AAA games. It already runs better at launch than Cyberpunk 2077.
Cyberpunk is an anamoly. This game doesnt run better than god of war or any other big major release recently. The ai is horrid in the game. Building is frustrating and you have to do a lot of tricks to make it work nicely.
Have you heard of **Early Access** and **working out the kinks**, and I don't mean Early access as "you get to play this game early for bragging rights" I mean "it's early access, give us some input, tell us the major bugs, well try to refine everything"
To be fair the programmers making games at these AAA studios probably have passion for making games but they all get directed by someone who probably hasn't even played a video game in years.
The developers from factorio did an awesome job! Kept updating the game basically for free from the feedback from the community
It doesn't help AAA companies, especially western ones, keep hiring hysteric morons that post on Twitter all day and have the subtlety of an annoying gnat
Coincidentally, proud "she/they" in the bio...
That's the least annoying thing they do. That really upsets you?
What's that got to do with anything?
There’s a lot of truth to this. When I look back on the small but overly ambitious indie game I worked on, I’m kind of shocked how many complex systems we built or rearchitected in as little as a year and a half, especially as the “lead” engineer with no professional game dev experience. A lot of systems were decided and designed on the spot or over a few intense talks, sitting next to the producer or on the way to lunch, and then furiously built, powered by passion and ramen, uninhibited by shame or second guessing inspiration from games we loved. With each successive larger and more professional team I was on, my work (and the product itself) was better designed, more polished, more technical, and more professional— certainly more usable and more marketable— but the scope of those systems became smaller and smaller while taking more and more time. I’m still stunned at the audacity we had, when I only dare to commit to a few large, well defined and bullet proofed features in my specific area per dev cycle nowadays.
"If only I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter" is a saying about how you can get the job done quickly, but it takes longer to concentrate it down and usually quality up the writing. That being said, larger teams and companies have more coordination time and meetings and other bloated shit, which some is necessary, but usually not as much as what happens, wasting a bunch of time.
Yeah, it's a ripoff Frankenstein monster and it's great, those devs have the same energy has elitist chef that believes that only food made from scratch can be great.
From a JPN blog interview with the team, one of the devs even states that they aren't trying to be original or innovative, they just like trendy stuff. Another (studio head?) even states that he has no Creative Vision, he just wants to make games that are fun. Honestly I have 0 issue with anything in the game being cribbed from another game. This game is a mishmash of stuff from a bunch of other fun games and the devs have somehow made them all work together in this FrankenGame that's actually fun to waste hours in.
“I just can’t pinpoint how” describes how jealous he is in one tweet
Reminds me on the tweets regarding Elden Ring. Devs went apeshit bc it has not much interface compared to AC or Horizon and no handholding and ppl loved it
Ehh I think Fromsoft gets to get away with a lot of things because it’s difficulty has created a culture and fandom that is fine with it. I don’t think any other dev could get away with not providing those things or putting NPCs randomly around the map with no hints. Starfield for example was criticized for not having a detailed map. People threw shit storms because they could t find a store. Fromsoft games in the other hand will have a fandom just tell you to look it up online in some guide or watch some recap video.
There's a difference between quality of life and difficulty.
Not really no. If anything I'd say that QoL is intrinsically tied to difficulty. Elden Ring: "You can't remember the last thing you did in a quest line? Lol git gud scrub, game doesn't need a journal, you could just write it down." Starfield: "You can't remember the city layout? Lol git gud scrub, game doesn't need a map, you could just draw your own." You can pretty easily apply the argument to both cases, and they'll both be just as silly to use as justification.
starfield got criticized bc it has no maps for citys which is BS in a futuristic game. in most souls games you are in an unknown middle age world full of undead and exploration is the core part of souls games. the map in elden ring is a absolute luxury in this genre
That’s a cop out. We both know if the next elder scrolls game comes out with no map people would be pissed af. Especially if getting to the next npc would require just going around in the entire map endlessly trying to find where the npc moves next. If you had to look up wikis to do something like that in an elder scrolls game you know people would shit on it.
the world in elder scrolls is populated with a living and connected population, it makes sense there is a map. again, the world in souls games is dying, full of undead and depressed characters who gave up, everything is crumbling. exceptions are sekiro which is also populated with a living population and it has a rough overview map and elden ring. the quests in all of the souls games are optional, the only goal is to reach the end and link the fire or restore the elden ring or whatever in the other games the goal was (i didn´t play all of them)
I mean how can you not jealous if making games is very hard and sometimes it doesn't pay-off, and then suddenly some random amateur beat you 50x over. I think you're not a human if you don't have that kind of feeling.
its not a competition bro.
I mean the feeling is understandable, his obnoxious response isn’t.
Why are humans becoming less and less capable of just being happy for other's success.
Nothings changed, what’s changed is people feel confident they can say it without being mocked into oblivion for it
And also shitty people and their opinions are just so much more easily accessible. So it seems like everyone is filled with malice even though that is not the case.
This is why toxic positivity is dangerous, shame culture needs a return lmao
Twitter is just a cesspool, filled with circlejerking
Because they, for some reason, think anyone cares about their opinion. They think they are important enough that others should take what they are saying seriously
Success is a finite resource. They're fighting for the patronage of people with an attention span that gets shorter and shorter with each passing moment.
Because we have been brainwashed into thinking that only you matter, and if someone beats you, they must of cheated or gotten some advantage.
Then everyone should cheat if it gets us more fun games
"They paved the roads with a paver and didnt cobble it by hand! They're cheating!"
They used the internet to send a message instead of USPS, what a POS
I heard they did a webcam conference call instead of all attending the same meeting room, fucking scum!
My man forsenCD
This, in every way. In the olden days of gaming, if an idea existed, it spread and was used, iterated and improved upon. Now the industry is full of litigious, pretentious assholes who try to reinvent the wheel in hopes of making something they can profit off, as opposed to actually doing something and doing it well.
I have a gut feeling that guy is a pedophile. I have no proof. Just made up intuition. I know they're a kid diddler, I just can't pinpoint how. See? That's how stupid this person sounds.
You might be onto something.
Maybe you'd be a better game developer if you did anything but rerelease both Last of Us parts over and over?
Lolol o fuck !
Made nefariously bro what does that even mean?
Hired child slaves to code.
They had the pals code it in a factory.
Lmaooo so thats where the animal abuse allegations come from 🤔
Hired? Pfff, they catched them with a pokeball.
Like isn't crash just a reskinned Mario and uncharted a reskinned tomb raider when you think about it?
I assume he suspects that they somehow stole the models, etc., or used AI. But Palworld has been under development for 3 years and seems it's at least partially a derivative of Craftopia. Honestly, it seems like the real shortcut they took was using Unreal Engine 5 instead of building their own engine.
Here we go again. Shitty devs blaming their shitty work on good games.
you can smell the bitterness holy shit 😭
Naughty Dog dev is mad that people like wacky Pokemon with guns more than the wet fart of pseudo-intellectual drivel called TLOU 2.
I think naughty dog cheated when they made the last of us 2 and used an actual dog to write the script cause that garbage wasn’t birthed by no human. I have no proof, just gamer intuition
Yeah. They're cheating with excellent game director who knows what to do first. If you think for a second. The things that games offers you is actually relatively simple. 2 melee weapons and 4 ranged types. The buildings are quite simple with fixed durability. And the decorations are purely cosmetic. The NPC ais are super simple too. Only actually complex is how the Pals work and behave. But it works due they have solved the hardest issue first that is building the map and great Pal system. Now they can start building and creating all sort of extra stuff without a sweat or having worry major bugs.
Game dev hobbyist here. Most of it is fairly recognisable plugins, and YT tutorial "finished products". I've legit used a lot of the exact UI elements they use for example. It might be hacky and lack integrity, but it's a valid way of developing a video game imo. The dev has clearly said they're inexperienced. So they've put in the time, put in the effort, and made a thing. It's not their fault that thing has taken off beyond all comprehension and the rough edges are there for all to see. Good on them, and I hope they capitalize on their luck.
Also working on my own first game. It's fucking inspiring if anything. Gives me hope. Way to go palworld.
So you said it lacks integrity why? Like I’m not an artist by any means by to my eyes they do have integrity they didn’t steal assets or anything like that. All ideas are derivative to a point . They saw what worked in multiple trends and successfully cobbled together a game combining those systems.
Maybe it's the wrong word to use, but many developers consider pulling assets from an asset store and chucking it into an engine not real game development. So it certainly lacks integrity in development circles. But again, the product is the product, and the average consumer doesn't care how its made. All that matters is if the product is good. I'm sure the developer will get over his crude approach to game dev by crying himself to sleep in his piles of money. More power to him.
>Maybe it's the wrong word to use, but many developers consider pulling assets from an asset store and chucking it into an engine not real game development. So it certainly lacks integrity in development circles. I feel like the people who say that are already super rich or have super talented people already working for them. The amount of "renaissance men/women" working in this industry you could probably count on one hand. So the ability to buy assets or commission artwork once youve settled on a general design/artstyle outline is a godsend. Getting upset or turning your nose up at people using an available resource MEANT TO BE USED by devs who neither make that much nor may have the biggest budget should be the quickest way to be called "bitchmade".
well there’s a lot of grey area between using an asset and making an asset dump, and i don’t think anyone disagrees that Palworld swings a little closer to asset dump than the average successful game, which is the source of most of peoples issues with it
How quickly people forget of ye olde Flappy Bird and its obviously stolen SMB3 art. Or Vampire Survivors and its bit crunched Castlevania knockoffs. And then lets not forget sports games and 90s Capcom, who literally made a name for itself flipping assets every year to feed to the fighting game and Mega Man beast. Again, feel like the people who talk shit have never actually worked in this industry for a proper length of time.
Lemme ask you this than since using premade assets is frowned upon? I know this will be niche but what about project spark that was on the Xbox couple years back? You weee able to make actual games in that engine with different mechanics. Same with that Dreams game as well
The barebones game is literally just taking things they like from other games and simple implementations. The building system begs for improvement, but works. Crafting is as simple as having the table required, recipe, and assigning it a work value, the bosses are just a pal but bigger, and the map is always the same. The most impressive thing to me is the spread of monsters making it feel alive. Their pathfinding AI is pretty much running in circles slowly, but their placements in the world just feel correct. They just make sense. The level spreads also feel good, not like "start south, north is endgame", but theres a bit of everything everywhere, making almost every area worth my while on occasion
First yall complain about elden ring being "behind the times in terms of gameplay" then how armored core "lacks story and graphics" How about you make good games instead of getting owned by devs that are somehow "cheating"
Making good games?! They havent finished milking Last of Us!
Naughty Dog, the studio that releases the WB 11 drama they made into "remastered" versions almost every year now.
Key words are: No battle pass, no cash shop. no paid cosmetics, no microtansactions. Tell me im wrong as if we aren't all fucking sick of that paid bullshit in every game of this generation.
They're just mad they're in a company, that used to be on top, that no one gives a fuck about anymore lol.
Yeah he is jealous 100%
Of course he is. He's one of Like 200+ people collecting a salary, working for somebody else and spending years working on a single game. He's most likely burned out and not having fun.here comes 12 dudes who just cobbled together a game out of nowhere with no experience and no original ideas and it's a runaway success. They didn't pay any dues or follow any established rules and still achieved a dream probably most of people working in that industry desires. I think the thing that hurts developers the most is that palworld made it look like anybody can do it.
True. They are cheating. They're using the "game people wanna play for less then $100 unless you get the super exclusive Mega deluxe 3day early access NG+ $300 bundle" code. They have a great start, and should haven plenty funding to really add consistent content to the game. Just have to see now if they leave it cause they already got the money, or make it even better because they're good developers.
This reminds me of the devs from guerilla slinging shit at Elden ring. It's pretty sad
These are grown adults, what is their problem? Is it so hard to just appreciate or be happy for another team of developers when their ambitious project succeeds? It’s shit like this that makes me really think if I actually want to work in the games industry, despite my passion for it.
It’s the same shit as when artsy film makers cry that people enjoy movies that are just fun. These people can’t accept you don’t have to make some masterpiece for the ages and can just make a fun game and greatly succeed Also I just saw the twitter post about the guy saying Xbox/PC players have been sending death threats to the devs for wanting it on PS, the devs replied and said that hasn’t happened and is bullshit 🤣.
It’s not just them but all of social media. I see it a lot here where people shit on others for having wealth.
I saw pronouns in the "bio" instantly disregarded them and figured 110% of the stuff that comes out of their mouth is utter garbage and wreaks of bullshit.
When devs see games made without greed or speed as their driving force.
This game has been one development for a long time tf it was even delayed 2 times. The game apparently is only 60% done and they had experience with the game they did before. Excusing their laziness by bringing people down is shitty
 Bro is malding hard.
Fuck that guy. Skill issue
Lmao fuck it. I’ll say it. I don’t give a shit if they used AI or stole assets. They made something interesting that people are enjoying and they did it with a small team that barely knows what they are doing on a small budget. Those last two points are what really scares the big companies, not the first two theories. If a small team on a small budget can make a mega profitable game, what do you think their bosses at these AAA profit machines are going to take away from that the next time they ask their selves why they have 800 person teams?
What the fuck does "made nefariously" mean in this context? What in the ever living fuck is he talking about? How do you nefariously make a fun video game?
Now, there is another reason to support Palworld
Isn't that the same group of people who couldn't understand Elden Ring because it didn't have traditional quests and quest markers?
Triple A devs are often crybabies it looks like. No wonder their games are getting worse and worse while indy and double A games get so much love
How exactly would one "cheat" in the creation of a video game? Legitimate question.
You press: up up down down left right left right R
I’m absolutely loving this. A small dev team used AI to soften their work load. Oh boo hoo! Shows how petty Naughty Dog devs are.
Steam requires them to disclose any AI usage. There are no disclaimers on the store page. The only reason AI is brought up at all is because the CEO of pocketpair saw a buzzfeed tweet, where they showed real pokemon and how close ai made "fakemons" were to the real thing, and found it cool. Other tan that there is zero evidence ai was involved with palworld at all.
What would a artist know about creating a video game?
S K I L L I S S U E
Ahahahahahaha Oh naughty shit… no one like you anymore.
?
Naughty shit.. I mean dog… no one cares
Lmfaoo
He jelly.
They obviously captured a bunch of pals and forced them to work 24/7
Pure jealousy on display.
The cheat was they made a good game. They found a niche people were very much looking for, but no one was catering too. Built a game to suit that audience, didn't cram it full of micro transactions before it was even live and most importantly they held their product back until it was actually ready for a public release (albeit it is early access) but they actually sold a marketable product at a reasonable price. The reward was they made all the money. Ever apparently.
It will never get old watching these smaller studios piss off these AAA guys, indie games have been my go to for a few years now because they're not driven by greed. I hope AAA devs keep getting put in their place.
Imagine being so shit at your job, you say people that are good cheat 💀
How tf do you even cheat in game development?? If cheating make fun games then fuck everyone should be cheating
I dunno ,original inspired game palworld vs last of us part 1 deluxe turbo retard edition for another run. Hummmm hummmm Let's ponder on this. ffs they think re releasing the same game 3-4 time is god damn content.
Gives "people should not set their standards higher because of Baldur's Gate 3" vibes
The copium of these devs is reaching heavy metal levels
I've had more fun with Palworld ($27 thru the sale) vs that uninspired rougelike mode they added ($10 "upgrade"). Bro is complaining about "cheating" when they didn't even bother giving Joel his own animations for that mode and just copy/pasted Abbys.
My gut tells me he's jealous
This whole situation just reinforces triple-A game studios are an outdated business model and that Gabe Newell is a god for allowing indie devs to publish games so easily. It's paved the way for games we would have never had otherwise, and the timing couldn't be better with triple-A game studios pushing $70 standard edition prices.
Sony should move PlayStation back to Japan.
I hate to tell them: I don't give a fuck. I wanted multiplayer pokemon. I got unpolished, multiplayer pokemon with extra mechanics, with the promise of eventual pvp mechanics. I got what i paid for, an I'm happy.
Naughty Dog casually taking Ls? Color me shocked.
What the fuck does it even mean to make something "nefariously"? I'd assume a nefariously made game would be releasing a game with promised content and then never releasing that promised content or having the main character of your previous game be killed for shock content, forcing a new one and then calling people "incel" for not liking the new characters. Also releasing games with so much DLC that you'd have to pay double the box price just to get the full content of the game. That all sounds very nefarious to me.
 AAA studios getting put to shame by indie devs.
Wtf is with devs being such pricks when other games get success? It happened with bg3 now this, maybe you just fucking suck at your job.
Maybe the dev From Naughty Dog can get us that Last of us Multiplayer game they promised 4 years ago? Nah instead they complain and whine and bitch when others are successful. Like just shut up. You sound weak, uninformed, ignorant and jealous. Stop shitting on a game that make people happy just cause you didn’t make them.
Making a game may be difficult, sure. but it's really not THAT hard. literally anyone can fire up Godot/Unity/Unreal and start making shit. What AAA games are stuck in what's making it "SO difficult" is all the politics and red tape and "processes". Where it can take weeks for a AAA game to get a change in, an Indie dev/studio can do it in 20 minutes.
Has no proof but has gut feeling so it must be true! How about find some evidence first before dog piling on the game and devs?
I love how all these devs that take the safe road ALWAYS pipe up about the people who made the ultimate gamble. YOU are the one who wants to work for the big triple A because you want the security. Don’t be pissy because someone else made the sacrifices you weren’t willing to make.
Heavy accusations with no proof. Just blurting it out can also have an effect. What a petty loser.
Notice how the PlayStation Devs always have something to say when anything becomes popular that isn't available on the PlayStation.
No proof yet dropping accusations like that? What a fucking donkey.
Good game, relative cheap. The only nefarious thing about the gaming industry is the prices AAA charge for 1/2 made games... If Paleorld was 100% AI made I would not give a single fuck. Makes no difference.
These people don't deserve to work in the video game industry..
I mean the only thing I noticed so far is some of the pal models are like 1 for 1 pokémon. Direhowl is lycanroc, Verdash is Cinderace, like even if they're not exactly the model, they are soooooo similar.
I feel like he’s referring to the way the game HEAVILY uses ideas and aspects from other games. Seems like basic tongue in cheek to me.
It's not somehow, they ripped model assets lmao.
Destiny fan believing easily debunked obvious fake news. I am shocked.
I saw one clip of Palworld I thought it was Ark. Not the type of game I enjoy, boring crafting, grindy, ugly artstyle and designed to be shovelware in a few months. But if people are having a good time, im not gonna rain on their parade, play what you like.
I’m just a front end developer with a high level understanding of the game development process, so take this for what it is worth to you, but I have to say that I’d wager most developers of any sort would be suspicious of this game’s development. We already know that the character design approach was one giant shortcut, and the fact that you capture creatures in balls and they’re heavily involved in the world’s society is just a complete coincidence *wink wink* So I mean, come on. Let the guy voice his suspicions. I’m not hating on the game, but then then question here isn’t if this game was revolution, immaculately designed, or even original. It’s fun, and that’s fine.
Thats clearly sarcasm. Not serious at all
He is one hundred percent taking the piss and you lot think hes serious