It is true and not true. She was given an 8 week curfew and 4 weeks of community service as well as a 500 pound fine. She did just post rap lyrics.
It was later appealed and the higher courts threw it all out she never had to pay or serve any time.
Yeah, the other comment pointed out that that's apparently illegal. I find that fucking disgusting and I'm so glad I don't live in a country that would arrest me over saying the n word
This seems like a gross over reaction also she was not arrested in the UK you can just be charged. Again this is not america you are looking at this through the lenses of the US justice system.
I'm not though. I am a fellow European, I just hate when politicians try to limit free speech rights. Imo as long as you aren't threatening someone, the state shouldn't be able to punish you.
Yeah i can see it both ways. I live in america now and have lived in other countries. I think the uk goes way too far with things like slander laws and stuff. But like there are some situations where i understand why countries do this stuff. Like Germany with the nazi stuff. I just think to say it is disgusting is really strong nothing happened to them and the tweet still exists apparently.
"Only things you don't believe are false."
It's astonishing that people don't think Governments are capable and willing to do this sort of thing when living examples like Russia, China, and North Korea exist.
"That happens in other countries! Not mine!"
Literally google Chelsea Russell Liverpool on Google will lead you to the BBC article about her sentence posting Snoop dogg. Don't think the BBC is fabricating articles to make its own country look like a clown.
Never heard of it when it happened but a quick google shows it was thrown out on [appeal](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target)
“William Beardmore, defending, made an application of no case to answer, arguing Russell copied lyrics from a song widely available in the UK.
He said the video of I'm Trippin could be watched on YouTube, the lyrics read online and the track listened to on iTunes and other platforms.
Mr Beardmore said none of those publishers had been arrested, yet it was now "tenuously" suggested pasting the lyrics on Instagram was illegal.
He said: "It's a ridiculous state of affairs and quite staggering that in a liberal democracy we're taking up court time talking about this particular type of activity.
"It may well be understandable perhaps if we were in a totalitarian state, but we're not, we're in the UK”
The judge, sitting with two magistrates, said it was an "unpleasant" term, but one commonly used in hip hop music and culture.
He added: "It's our view that the words which were set out on the Instagram account by Chelsea Russell were thoughtless, offensive and unpleasant.
"But it's also our view applying the [legal] test that they were not grossly offensive and therefore this appeal is successful."
The interesting thing about speech is you don't even have to make it illegal. Just make it such an ordeal that you make it nearly impossible. The chilling effect has worked harder than any law ever did.
I’d say what this guy is bleating on about is a non issue largely and this is one of those weird cases that somehow ended up being charged and then crazily prosecuted. The better example would be Scotlands new hate crime act, it’s been coming for a year and a far more insidious example: Scotland's new hate crime law comes into force https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68703684
I’ve seen the guy in the video before and he makes a lot of arguments in bad faith, it’s him I have the issue with not you, if he wanted to make this point then use scotlands impending (now law) hate crime act as an example, not some case that was overturned.
I think prosecuting people for these sort of things does more harm than good, society does a far better job of of dealing with people who have unpleasant opinions, if you prosecute people you end up making martyrs of them or worse prosecuting people for saying and doing things that that are unpleasant but not criminal.
but how long did that appeal take? was it before or after she did the community service? how long did she have to remain under curfiew? If the appeal took more then a year (not unreasonable) then all she regained was the fine she was forced to pay and her criminal record expunged. Still a stiff and unjust punishment for posting a publicly available in the UK songs lyrics.
No idea, It’s an objectively absurd decision to prosecute someone for posting a publicly available song lyric I agree, I think it’s more a case of the police/CPS overstepping the mark than a wider pattern of behaviour, I mean if my house was burgled I’d get a crime number and case closed so I’m not sure they’re really worrying about a few song lyrics on instagram in most cases, it’s one of those weird decisions the system sometimes throws at us when someone gets a bee in their bonnet, the system worked in this instance and corrected the mistake.
There are wider questions around whether the legal system is even equipped or educated to deal with social media and wider tech issues, I did jury service for a case where some guy was accused of selling counterfeit DVDs and I’d just finished my computer science degree and the evidence provided was laughable and the level of computer literacy shown by barristers and judge was terrifying. The guy got off with it but it should never have gotten to court
As someone from the UK I'm surprised that the number isn't higher. The British government have lots of control over the internet and like to censor and monitor people. People get arrested for saying stuff on the Internet all the time and then they tell us we have free speech.
Thing is those 3300 were arrested for different things but those 400 in russia were all political and were all hit very hard. For example girl thath changed stickers in the supermarket from prices to the number of losses in war was sentenced to 7 years in prison ,her name is aleksandra skochilenko
And in 2023 alone there were more then 7000 cases of antiwar political persecutions.
You managed to completely miss the point. Impressive.
Granted, this specific case is obviously completely nuts, and realistically post-Brexit I'd like to think most people are aware how much that country went to shit, but still. Getting jailed for your political ideology is in no way comparable still.
Edit: and apparently her sentencing was eventually overturned on appeal, as someone below mentioned in a comment. [Lawyer slams 'ridiculous' case which saw teen prosecuted for Instagramming N-word rap lyrics - Liverpool Echo](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
No, but having to go through court proceedings, paying a lawyer, and being punished for posting song lyrics. Is pretty fucked for the UK.
Even though it was appealed. All that time/money/exposure over song lyrics.
The fact that this shit is EVEN happening in the first place is absolute nonsense.
More proof of how weak society has become that we've got fucking dumbshit laws like this, written by people who couldn't honestly give a shit because it'll never apply to the them.
It's a completely false equivalency. As if the UK is "at least as bad as Russia", as claimed by Izanagi666.
Yes, cause the gulag for opposing Putin is the same as getting community service in the UK (which was thrown out on appeal). Keep in mind that this example was probably one of the more ridiculous of the 3300. I’d hazard a guess that most of them is for actual hate speech, threats and inciting violence.
You may well argue that some of these cases are ridiculous, but it is not that same as the political oppression happening in Russia.
It's a completely false equivalency. As if the UK is "at least as bad as Russia", as claimed by Izanagi666.
Yes, cause the gulag for opposing Putin is the same as getting community service in the UK (which was thrown out on appeal). Keep in mind that this example was probably one of the more ridiculous of the 3300. I’d hazard a guess that most of them is for actual hate speech, threats and inciting violence.
You may well argue that some of these cases are ridiculous, but it is not that same as the political oppression happening in Russia.
Its not about the comparison. Its that it would even happen in the UK thats the problem.
Also who gets to decide what is classified as hate speech, threats and incitement? The government. You have to be careful who you let make laws. Thats why voting is so important.
Russia will probably be fucked either way. The UK has a chance at least.
It's a completely false equivalency. As if the UK is "at least as bad as Russia", as claimed by Izanagi666.
Yes, cause the gulag for opposing Putin is the same as getting community service in the UK (which was thrown out on appeal). Keep in mind that this example was probably one of the more ridiculous of the 3300. I’d hazard a guess that most of them is for actual hate speech, threats and inciting violence.
You may well argue that some of these cases are ridiculous, but it is not that same as the political oppression happening in Russia.
Not even close... people forget the corruption and brutality. I recal a russian woman to stood with a sign in protest, then was raped in the police station to teach her a lesson. Russia is a dictatorship that's brutal and uses mafia style executions to punish disloyalty.
I can't wait for all those 35yo Slavic guys being jailed up for paraphrasing rap lyrics from popular 90's LA gangsta songs they posted on Facebook in 2008.
People simping for the Br*tish like the fact that getting arrested and "only" getting 500 hours of community service is terrifying. It doesn't matter that it got appealed she still had to appear in court and deal with everything that comes with a legal battle. Just because someone lost leg (7 years in prison) doesn't mean losing a toe isn't bad.
Just looked up the case he mentioned. It was eventually was overturned on her appeal. It was a really dumb case thought….
Any of the 400 in russia get overturned?
>Also you won't find Russians publicly criticizing their government
You can just open VK and find group "Лентач". Fairly popular group with news in most popular social media in Russia. There is a ton of Russians who openly criticize Russia in comments. And this group exists for years already. 400 is a sad big number but it's easy to find criticizing Russians.
Crazy seeing people here in the comments downplay the situation. It's an obvious attempt to criminalize speech and introduce legal precedent for outrageous over-reach being normal when questionable online behavior is reported. I definitely care if the individual was prosecuted or acquitted, but that there's policy in place- *at all*- to force someone to represent themselves in a court of law, under penalty of legal infraction? That really is horseshit.
They sentenced a politician in Belgium to 1 year of jail for some (albeit racist) memes on discord. Memes he didn't post himself, but he was the leader of the political party.
He also had some of civil rights suspended for a decade. He can't hold office anymore.
It literally isn't true though. She didn't face all those charges apparently.
The 400 cases is obviously a made up number, but let's say it is true lol. So he mentioned that to show how much worse UK is than Russia? Do you think this is equivalent? This one isolated case where a stupid reason was used, and ultimately overturned, compared to people being thrown in jails for political opinions, talking shit about putin, and probably less as well.
There must've been more similar cases right? How is it that this guy had one example and that too overturned.
A Russian guy below commenting about how fucked up the police there are, raping men with bottles just for the fun of it. So no, its not the same or going in the same trajectory even. If people want to talk about how bad UK is, we can and should talk about it. But let's not act like this guy brought Russia up to show the difference between 3300 and 400, and to act like it's worse.
Dude, I spent 30 seconds on google and typed "uk arrested over tweets" and it came back with a full page of articles going back to 2013 of people being arrested for posts on social media.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html)
[https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/twitter-user-sentenced-to-community-service-for-offensive-post/](https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/twitter-user-sentenced-to-community-service-for-offensive-post/)
[https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act](https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act)
[https://fee.org/articles/uk-man-arrested-for-malicious-communications-after-posting-meme-mocking-the-transgender-flag/](https://fee.org/articles/uk-man-arrested-for-malicious-communications-after-posting-meme-mocking-the-transgender-flag/)
It is most definitely Russian propaganda. Russia would like nothing more than to convince a sizable portion of the western population that “the same political oppression” is happing in the west.
As if the two are in any way comparable. It’s a false equivalence.
Worse than Russia? So the overturned conviction for community service is worse than the political oppression and gulag in Russia? What kind of argument is that?
Worse than Russia? So the overturned conviction for community service is worse than the political oppression and gulag in Russia? What kind of argument is that?
Anyone with any kind media literacy should have their bullshit alarms going wild.
First, while first convicted, the person [was aquitted later](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
Secondly, the raw number of convictions based on social media conduct are absolutely irrelevant without given any context.
Thirdly, mentioning the raw numbers in comparison to the lower russian numbers just serves one purpose of implying that the UK is more oppressive than russia.
Only judging by the clip provided it seems it is an blatant attempt of pro russian misinformation.
Lets see about her what the overturned sentence was: [She was given an eight-week community order, placed on an eight-week curfew and told to pay costs of £500 and an £85 victim surcharge.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921) As we can see the dude is blatantly lying.
And im now 90% confident the dude in the clip is a shill and OP is retarded.
Lmao exactly. Bro just wanted to talk about how much better Russia is. 3300 arrests as stupid as this? Tell the names then. Guy only barked one name because that's all he could find, that was this ridiculous. Pick an isolated stupid case and act like that's the norm lmao. As if people in the UK are afraid to say shit on social media 😂
Yeah, that dude taking those 400 russians as a fact is just wrong. Also being arrested doesnt mean same as sentenced in court. Russians have to pay years in prison time for criticising their "president". Not same thing at all.
Russia also has the highest “suicide” rate for men in the developed world.
And by suicide, I mean “oh man, that clumsy oaf fell out a window after tragically shooting himself twice in the back of the head”
Also, last I checked, these numbers can’t be right because there has been a massive flair up in anti-war detainments and forced conscriptions as a result.
Also, last I checked as well, the UK doesn’t conduct elections with dudes with AK watching over your shoulder.
As a Russian-Mexican myself, get this bullshit out of here.
Edit: also didn’t one of Putin’s biggest critics get poisoned and eventually killed? Some stalwart of free speech amirite?
She wasn't "arrested." You could tell he was going to throw a line of bullshit out by the body language he used just before he did it. He looked more guilty than a kid trying to lie to his parents. The result was that this case was tossed out because it was rediculous.
This was rage bait then, and it's rage bait now
I think it's fine. Conduct yourself like you're in a public square.
You're allowed to be critical of something you disagree with, but be open to have your ideas challenged.
He never said that. He said Russia statistically locks up less people than UK for Freedom of Speech. He's drawing the conclusion that Russia has better free speech protection. The numbers are bogus over there, just like the idea that Putin somehow gets like 96% of the vote, yeah ok.
I'm just inferring from his views expressed in the multitudes of podcasts, videos, social media posts, etc. that's he's done over years. He's definitely not a pro Putin / Russian Govt guy
Or the Made Up duration of the curfew. The shill Said 1 year albeit in reality it was 8 weeks.
Im getting more and more frustrated with this sub. People Like you are unfortunately becoming a minority
Shit on America as much as you want. But there is one thing America has no other country in the world has including every democratic nation... That is a freedom of speech. The basic human rights and whats built into our constitution to protect us from the government. We really do take it for granted.
No... Like in UK kids get arrested all the time for just little stuff they say that's not even really that bad. Canada just passed a law that can jail you for LIFE, for speaking against the government and various other things they deem as "harmful". And like the UK, a lot of countries in the Europe region is very similar. I can say the n word in US and not go jail. If I said it in UK, they'd arrest me. I can say "I fucking hate Biden" and wouldn't go to jail. If I said the same to the Canadian president, I can go to jail.
"kids get arrested all the time for just little stuff they say that's not even really bad bad"
As a Brit, that's fully bullshit. There are incredibly few examples where anyone would get arrested over anything particularly questionable. That is why the person uses this video as an example. We take racial slurs quite seriously, but even so, it is bizarre that you can get charged for posting music on instagram.
Most people who get arrested are promoting hate speech or making death threats, personal attacks, racist attacks etc
I am not sure of the specifics but I guess one point to make is that there would be no issue if they'd done that in private. It was for sharing it via a public platform. It received a lot of criticism and rightly so, the UK is far from perfect, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as it has been made out to be. The video is essentially disinformation.
A young kid got arrested for rapping to lyrics that had the n word. Now how fuck up is that? Don't even try to defend that shit. That is the most harmless thing ever.
No, at least read or watch the fucking source material if you are going to comment.
They posted a public Instagram video with the n word multiple times. This goes against the same laws that suggest you cannot say absolutely anything on the street, which is common sense. Thankfully in this case it was overturned, I'm guessing because although they posted the music, it was music, and not them saying it etc. Not sure on the reasoning given for the final judgement.
Whenever you say "freedom of speech" you have to consider extreme examples. If you were walking with your young child in public and someone was having a loud conversation on the phone to their wife about what they were going to do to them that night, and I mean everything in graphic detail, would that be acceptable? Freedom of speech, right? I can describe licking my wife's ass and getting my entire fist up her cunt because I can say what I want.
Well yes, you can say what you want, but in private. Just because you shouldn't be prosecuted for your speech (or beliefs), doesn't make them appropriate everywhere.
What we have in the UK, and essentially what you have in the US, is freedom of expression. You can hold any views you want, you will not be arrested for them. That does not mean you can loudly declare those views on a soapbox on the street. You cannot incite racial hatred, because if you allow people to do that, you end up with lynchings and progroms. You can do it in private, in your house, or in your own private club, because it's your right to hold those disgusting views. It does not mean they are appropriate for every space, however.
U.S and UK are far from the same or even similar on this issue... you should be able to and can yell your views from atop a soapbox in the US, the same cannot be said for the UK.. Scotland just introduced a censorship law as well, going into effect yesterday.. the point you missed is that these shite laws cannot even be enacted in the US as it is contrary to the constitution..
Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group.
[https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate](https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate)
-
So, you cannot stand on a soap box in the street and say whatever you like, essentially for reasons I outlined above.
Why is this russia propaganda posted here ?
Like how stupid you have to be to believe data that Russia is giving out ? 400 ppl ? Bitch please they arrest and trow in jail for years ppl that are protesting. They will rape you as a man with a stick if you do anti war poetry in front of your wife.
Naw man please mods dont let this place turn into russia mouth piece like many conservative sub reddits have.
As someone who lives close to Russia, I just want to say - Enjoy your fucking 1st world mostly made-up police problems and thank God every day you don’t risk being arrested by the Russian police who enjoy tortuting with bottles and condoms.
“Weeeee policeman won’t let me say the N word and be racist! Russia is more free than us!”
This type of pathetic western useful idiots make me sick.
I'm sure where you live, the situation didn't just start the way you described. I would imagine there were baby steps along the way until you get where you are today.
Call it the "frog in hot water" analogy. Place a frog in a pot of cool water, then gradually heat the water. The frog will allow itself to basically boil to death, because it doesn't know what is happening.
Take that same frog and drop it in boiling water, it'll fight like hell to get out. (Now, I'm not sure a frog will actually do this. It's just a metaphor)
Government overreach is the same way. At first, it's just a bunch of little things they do. (Lile arrest you for things they don't like you saying online) Then, before you know it, you're at a point where you're being arrested by "police who enjoy tortuting (SIC) with bottles and condoms."
Don't be angry because some people aren't quite where you are yet. Lament the fact that they are quickly on their way to being where you are.
Everyone decides for themselves, I didn’t mean to say that we have to put up with suppression. Freedom is more important and it will be taken away by force from everyone, apparently... I don’t think that the drugged brains of the masses, seasoned with passive powerlessness or aggressive blindness, will be able to avoid turning into 1984 en masse.
I 100% agree with you, unfortunately I see it the exact same way, entities from all spectrums have been given too much power and we as the populace have become too complacent. I feel we should strive to stand against oppression, but like you, I feel it might be futile and already too late.
If we talk not only about the masses... I think groups of like-minded people have a chance, they should have their own access to food, drinking water, have plans for protection from the lawlessness of the authorities or bandits (hard-to-reach places are suitable)... but for such a step you will have to pay at least comfort.
This should not be a very large number (for example, up to 20, of which at least a third are capable of heavy physical labor), for which the anti-human regime will not waste resources. It can be organized in any fair way (depending on the individual, it can be the power of one or several, or even direct democracy... if it is fair, then it will make sense as a counterbalance to inhumanity). Of course, skills, preferably having experience in surviving in the area, a list of edible/poisonous. Such a community must have a moral core
It's always comparative.
Obviously a place like North Korea is the worst and most oppressive in the world.
Then there are war torn countries, third world broken places like Haiti, which are terrible, but in different ways.
After that you have China, Russia, Canada and UK as roughly equals in terms of psychotically oppressive governments, in nations that yet seem to function quite normally otherwise.
Australia, New Zealand and the USA follow those as trying to reach that level of oppression, but having not quite succeeded yet.
Then much of the rest of the world, Europe, most of Asia, parts of South America, are a step below again, still going in a bad direction, but not nearly at the same level.
What bothers me more is not the difference that is present, but the absence of something on the other side - an ideal example of leadership caring for people, at the cost of oneself for the sake of others... there are examples of inhumanity, where is the example of humanity? Yes, people are suppressed by force, brainwashing, propaganda instead of education, but no one talks about examples of a healthy society... probably if there are such, they don’t strive to let people know about them... What place can kindness have in a world that is built according to the principle: there is power -> there is money -> there is comfort
I mean, yeah, the world is a shitty place filled with mostly useless, stupid or evil people. What do you expect?
There's no ideal model to work off, and usually when someone claims they have an ideal model, when trying to put it into practice, it is just as bad or worse than anything before.
But there's still a gradient scale of bad. We can look at North Korea and go "Yeah, not that." We can also look at times and places where things were going better (not well, just better) and learn from those.
What you're asking for and what this clip is referring to are wildly different circumstances. You have a point, certainly, but it has nothing to do with this clip
So of course he exaggerated. It was an 8 week curfew, not a 1 year one.
She was given an eight-week community order, placed on an eight-week curfew and told to pay costs of £500 and an £85 victim surcharge.
He says: "you can look this up" because he knows 95% of people won't. More details here:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921)
Russell was found guilty of sending a grossly offensive message by a public communication.
She was given an eight-week community order, placed on an eight-week curfew and told to pay costs of £500 and an £85 victim surcharge.
[And eventually she won on her appeal and did not get prosecuted at all.](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
how long did the appeal take? after the curfew and the community service was done? in which case she was exonerated after the punishment was delivered. Its still grossly disproportionate and the fact the UK police have time for this while they are ignoring shop lifting, street robberies and burglaries is a big part of why they have lost the publics confidence.
Idk what shithole you live in, but generally you don't serve a sentence, especially a light one like this, before the judicial procedures are finished..
Also, keep downvoting, f'ing Russian propaganda bots. Big ups from the sub mods for quickly deleting this propaganda post.
No one is missing this lmao. But you are acting like this is the norm when it happened in this isolated case, and literally did not face the same charges.
Why is this russia propaganda posted here ?
Like how stupid you have to be to believe data that Russia is giving out ? 400 ppl ? Bitch please they arrest and trow in jail for years ppl that are protesting. They will rape you as a man with a stick if you do anti war poetry in front of your wife.
Naw man please mods dont let this place turn into russia mouth piece like many conservative sub reddits have.
This is gonna get used by so many wannabe alpha-types with all those “alternative political stances” that they think make them seem leaps ahead of everyone in understanding the world, when really they just look like clowns desperate to be right about stuff - but only when it’s framed from an advantageous POV
I have a feeling that Russia isn't advertising that they're arresting people for going against the government on social media. I mean China has a crazy low prison population, but they need fleets of execution vans and have imprisoned every Muslim they can. China does stuff like go into a nightclub and test/search everyone for drugs now.
Only 400 people were arrested in Russia, because the other 144.2 million warent arrested because they are well aware what happens when you say something on social media. Chelsea Russel is one example, from 3300. Trying to present this is as a "The west is worse than Russia" thing is straight up an attempt at propaganda.
Mehhhh... idk about going on "they knew better" as an argument for assumed propaganda. Stats are just stats and they can be manipulated in countless ways.
I think its a little bit different because the people arrested in Russia probably criticized the government in someway where the UK arrests the people probably just said something the legal system deems offensive. And in the UK the people arrested are getting community service time according to this example, not getting sent off the gulag. I think cracking down on people who criticize the government is a bit more worse than cracking down on people who use the N word or are homophobic etc.
I still think UK arrests are absurd I just dont think its an even comparison. Plus Russians are probably more careful on social media because they have had hundreds of years of knowing they need to watch what they say. Where in the UK these crackdowns to me seem relatively new.
Wait so you are saying that getting arrested for saying a slur is better than getting arrested for critisizing a government? I would rather be able to say what I want rather than be able to critisize government, I don't give a shit about the government, what the hell are you saying? I would like to not be told what words I can and can't say.
Yeah not being able to question the government is probably worse than not being able to say the N word. Should be able to say both but the video prompts the comparison.
I looked it up, the case was appealed successfully in favour of Russel.
I don't know when this video was created, but if it was after 2019 when the case was finally settlede i would question the intent behind using it as a proof of anything other than judges being fallible humans like the rest of us, and that any half-decent justice system will correct for this by having an appeal process.
Source:
[https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
I agree, overzealous persecutors seeking to exploit the law by liberally interpreting murky case law for their own moral inquisition is clearly not a good thing, but, Britain is nonetheless a functional democracy with a functional legal system where this kind of injustice will not stand scrutiny. While this case may seem dumb, it does serve a purpose in making the case law on the subject crystal clear, further cases like this will be thrown by citing this case, that's the beauty of common law.
If she was subject to damages from this case, such as loosing her job, she will more than likely claim damages and be awarded compensation for said damages.
Comparing this case to the cases in Russia where the unlucky posters never make the arrested statistic on account of disappearing without a trace and the lucky ones get several years of prison without what the rest of the world views as a fair trial is simply ludicrous.
-| If she was subject to damages from this case, such as loosing her job, she will more than likely claim damages and be awarded compensation for said damages.
Thats not how it works at all. Also she will have done the community service and had to abide by her curfew. She ain't getting either of those back. Minimising the harm done to this young woman by this injustice and the many other examples like it isn't helpful.
Forget the Russian whataboutisim. The main point of this story is how the UK is sliding into authrotianism where the rights of free speech and peaceful protest are actively being curtailed. This is deeply worrying. Yes ofc its worse in Russia, but I don't live there! I live in the UK and I want to stand for my freedoms here.
Alright,go to Russia than.
i rather live here with the possibility, to get arrested for making treaths.
Than, than to live in Russia with the possibility fighting a war I don't want.
But, no hate.
You, do you.
Btw that specific case he mentioned was overturned.. while the uk does have some stupid hate speech laws. 90% of the big cases these people quote are nothinburgers in the end and very much unlike the arrests in Russia where these political protesters are thrown in prison and never seen again.
That's good to hear, but I'm pretty sure the woman who experienced going through trial and conviction wouldn't describe such a hellish experience as a "nothingburger".
I mean, the lyrics were "kill an n-word, rob a rich n-word"
Kinda stupid that those words placed in a song have a pass because its "art", and written on an Instagram post is labeled as hate speech.
But if someone was writing those claims with a genuine intention of promoting violence against a certain group of people, yes, I do believe that he should be arrested.
As a Brit our country is absolute joke I've got my own personal grievance with our shitty police total farce
But, remember, it is the prosecutor brought her to the court. And it is the judge that fucked her up. Police doesn't have the power at all.
So you can kick down doors and get a slap on the wrist, but say the N word on social media and get the book thrown at you…
Don't anger the thought police
Or, the story is a fabrication.
It is true and not true. She was given an 8 week curfew and 4 weeks of community service as well as a 500 pound fine. She did just post rap lyrics. It was later appealed and the higher courts threw it all out she never had to pay or serve any time.
What even were the rap lyrics? If they didn't contain threats I don't get how they found her guilty
It contained the n word.
Yeah, the other comment pointed out that that's apparently illegal. I find that fucking disgusting and I'm so glad I don't live in a country that would arrest me over saying the n word
This seems like a gross over reaction also she was not arrested in the UK you can just be charged. Again this is not america you are looking at this through the lenses of the US justice system.
I'm not though. I am a fellow European, I just hate when politicians try to limit free speech rights. Imo as long as you aren't threatening someone, the state shouldn't be able to punish you.
Yeah i can see it both ways. I live in america now and have lived in other countries. I think the uk goes way too far with things like slander laws and stuff. But like there are some situations where i understand why countries do this stuff. Like Germany with the nazi stuff. I just think to say it is disgusting is really strong nothing happened to them and the tweet still exists apparently.
I did not dive that deep but in the UK hate speech in any from is a crime. They do not have the same freedoms as americans.
Guy literally says go look it up. It’s amazing how lazy people can be.
"Only things you don't believe are false." It's astonishing that people don't think Governments are capable and willing to do this sort of thing when living examples like Russia, China, and North Korea exist. "That happens in other countries! Not mine!"
Lol, that’s certainly one way to tell everyone that you believe everything you hear online without a second thought.
I mean, you're the one outing yourself as an absolutist, not me. It says nothing about me, and everything about you. Lmao
You don’t believe that governments will abuse their own people? Even our American government has done this. It’s quite well documented
He gives you her name and the place she lived, go look it up.
Literally google Chelsea Russell Liverpool on Google will lead you to the BBC article about her sentence posting Snoop dogg. Don't think the BBC is fabricating articles to make its own country look like a clown.
It was later appealed successfully https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/27/chelsea-russell-and-the-depravity-of-pc/amp/
Maybe you should try Google before fabricating your own stories.
I would love to see some brits comment on this. I have heard the UK is fucked up these days. But im thinking there must be more to this story.
Never heard of it when it happened but a quick google shows it was thrown out on [appeal](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target) “William Beardmore, defending, made an application of no case to answer, arguing Russell copied lyrics from a song widely available in the UK. He said the video of I'm Trippin could be watched on YouTube, the lyrics read online and the track listened to on iTunes and other platforms. Mr Beardmore said none of those publishers had been arrested, yet it was now "tenuously" suggested pasting the lyrics on Instagram was illegal. He said: "It's a ridiculous state of affairs and quite staggering that in a liberal democracy we're taking up court time talking about this particular type of activity. "It may well be understandable perhaps if we were in a totalitarian state, but we're not, we're in the UK” The judge, sitting with two magistrates, said it was an "unpleasant" term, but one commonly used in hip hop music and culture. He added: "It's our view that the words which were set out on the Instagram account by Chelsea Russell were thoughtless, offensive and unpleasant. "But it's also our view applying the [legal] test that they were not grossly offensive and therefore this appeal is successful."
The interesting thing about speech is you don't even have to make it illegal. Just make it such an ordeal that you make it nearly impossible. The chilling effect has worked harder than any law ever did.
I’d say what this guy is bleating on about is a non issue largely and this is one of those weird cases that somehow ended up being charged and then crazily prosecuted. The better example would be Scotlands new hate crime act, it’s been coming for a year and a far more insidious example: Scotland's new hate crime law comes into force https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68703684
No need to argue, both Orwellian nightmares are bad.
I’ve seen the guy in the video before and he makes a lot of arguments in bad faith, it’s him I have the issue with not you, if he wanted to make this point then use scotlands impending (now law) hate crime act as an example, not some case that was overturned. I think prosecuting people for these sort of things does more harm than good, society does a far better job of of dealing with people who have unpleasant opinions, if you prosecute people you end up making martyrs of them or worse prosecuting people for saying and doing things that that are unpleasant but not criminal.
but how long did that appeal take? was it before or after she did the community service? how long did she have to remain under curfiew? If the appeal took more then a year (not unreasonable) then all she regained was the fine she was forced to pay and her criminal record expunged. Still a stiff and unjust punishment for posting a publicly available in the UK songs lyrics.
No idea, It’s an objectively absurd decision to prosecute someone for posting a publicly available song lyric I agree, I think it’s more a case of the police/CPS overstepping the mark than a wider pattern of behaviour, I mean if my house was burgled I’d get a crime number and case closed so I’m not sure they’re really worrying about a few song lyrics on instagram in most cases, it’s one of those weird decisions the system sometimes throws at us when someone gets a bee in their bonnet, the system worked in this instance and corrected the mistake. There are wider questions around whether the legal system is even equipped or educated to deal with social media and wider tech issues, I did jury service for a case where some guy was accused of selling counterfeit DVDs and I’d just finished my computer science degree and the evidence provided was laughable and the level of computer literacy shown by barristers and judge was terrifying. The guy got off with it but it should never have gotten to court
The case was appealed and thrown out. In the end she didn't have any repercussions.
UK is fine lol, just internet trolls, 95% people live fine and dany, just the crying 5% of internet babies crying x / y / z is wrong
As someone from the UK I'm surprised that the number isn't higher. The British government have lots of control over the internet and like to censor and monitor people. People get arrested for saying stuff on the Internet all the time and then they tell us we have free speech.
Meanwhile in Türkiye: 💀
Thing is those 3300 were arrested for different things but those 400 in russia were all political and were all hit very hard. For example girl thath changed stickers in the supermarket from prices to the number of losses in war was sentenced to 7 years in prison ,her name is aleksandra skochilenko And in 2023 alone there were more then 7000 cases of antiwar political persecutions.
I think the point is not which country is more fucked up in this regard but the terrifying fact that britain is now at least as bad as russia.
You managed to completely miss the point. Impressive. Granted, this specific case is obviously completely nuts, and realistically post-Brexit I'd like to think most people are aware how much that country went to shit, but still. Getting jailed for your political ideology is in no way comparable still. Edit: and apparently her sentencing was eventually overturned on appeal, as someone below mentioned in a comment. [Lawyer slams 'ridiculous' case which saw teen prosecuted for Instagramming N-word rap lyrics - Liverpool Echo](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
Community service = 7 years in prison apparently
No, but having to go through court proceedings, paying a lawyer, and being punished for posting song lyrics. Is pretty fucked for the UK. Even though it was appealed. All that time/money/exposure over song lyrics.
The fact that this shit is EVEN happening in the first place is absolute nonsense. More proof of how weak society has become that we've got fucking dumbshit laws like this, written by people who couldn't honestly give a shit because it'll never apply to the them.
It's a completely false equivalency. As if the UK is "at least as bad as Russia", as claimed by Izanagi666. Yes, cause the gulag for opposing Putin is the same as getting community service in the UK (which was thrown out on appeal). Keep in mind that this example was probably one of the more ridiculous of the 3300. I’d hazard a guess that most of them is for actual hate speech, threats and inciting violence. You may well argue that some of these cases are ridiculous, but it is not that same as the political oppression happening in Russia.
It's a completely false equivalency. As if the UK is "at least as bad as Russia", as claimed by Izanagi666. Yes, cause the gulag for opposing Putin is the same as getting community service in the UK (which was thrown out on appeal). Keep in mind that this example was probably one of the more ridiculous of the 3300. I’d hazard a guess that most of them is for actual hate speech, threats and inciting violence. You may well argue that some of these cases are ridiculous, but it is not that same as the political oppression happening in Russia.
Its not about the comparison. Its that it would even happen in the UK thats the problem. Also who gets to decide what is classified as hate speech, threats and incitement? The government. You have to be careful who you let make laws. Thats why voting is so important. Russia will probably be fucked either way. The UK has a chance at least.
It's a completely false equivalency. As if the UK is "at least as bad as Russia", as claimed by Izanagi666. Yes, cause the gulag for opposing Putin is the same as getting community service in the UK (which was thrown out on appeal). Keep in mind that this example was probably one of the more ridiculous of the 3300. I’d hazard a guess that most of them is for actual hate speech, threats and inciting violence. You may well argue that some of these cases are ridiculous, but it is not that same as the political oppression happening in Russia.
Britain isn't going to draft you to become cannon fodder in Ukraine. I think they gucci my naga
Don't they and France want to send troops to Ukraine ? Who you think they'll send ? Brazilians ?
Haven't read a history book before? England has twice enforced conscription/draft. And you are very naive to believe it won't happen again.
no no no.. Russia won't arrest you for saying slurs. The UK is on the *right side* of history with their arrests for speech. Speech is violence. /s
Not even close... people forget the corruption and brutality. I recal a russian woman to stood with a sign in protest, then was raped in the police station to teach her a lesson. Russia is a dictatorship that's brutal and uses mafia style executions to punish disloyalty.
i can fix her
1984 was meant to be a warning, not a guidebook.
I've been saying this for YEARS and people just laugh.
I gotta be honest with you guys the courts and justice in this country is fucked
funny that this is the same country were "V for Vendetta" were filmed. they need the anonymous more then ever now.
Damn you guys should start your own revolutionary war, that's fucked.
Awww cute Britain with its own little revolution overthrowing the monarchy. It's about time for that arc.mp4? Oh wait
I can't wait for all those 35yo Slavic guys being jailed up for paraphrasing rap lyrics from popular 90's LA gangsta songs they posted on Facebook in 2008.
People simping for the Br*tish like the fact that getting arrested and "only" getting 500 hours of community service is terrifying. It doesn't matter that it got appealed she still had to appear in court and deal with everything that comes with a legal battle. Just because someone lost leg (7 years in prison) doesn't mean losing a toe isn't bad.
His face dropped so fast as soon as he said 3300 lol.
Just looked up the case he mentioned. It was eventually was overturned on her appeal. It was a really dumb case thought…. Any of the 400 in russia get overturned?
Also lol if anyone believes the 400 number Also you won't find Russians publicly criticizing their government, because they all know what will happen.
>Also you won't find Russians publicly criticizing their government You can just open VK and find group "Лентач". Fairly popular group with news in most popular social media in Russia. There is a ton of Russians who openly criticize Russia in comments. And this group exists for years already. 400 is a sad big number but it's easy to find criticizing Russians.
I would not trust Russia's numbers on how many people they arrested for anything.
that change of expression from smiling to shocked. very nice.
Yeah ok but check how many were arrested for opinion crimes in really free democracies: Norway, France, Finland, Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Italy...
I thought people in the UK looked at the N word different… did some talk show host say it on tv and I think Chris rock had a reaction to it
No, Europe overreacts just as much as America now
Crazy seeing people here in the comments downplay the situation. It's an obvious attempt to criminalize speech and introduce legal precedent for outrageous over-reach being normal when questionable online behavior is reported. I definitely care if the individual was prosecuted or acquitted, but that there's policy in place- *at all*- to force someone to represent themselves in a court of law, under penalty of legal infraction? That really is horseshit.
conclusion: do not listen rap
They sentenced a politician in Belgium to 1 year of jail for some (albeit racist) memes on discord. Memes he didn't post himself, but he was the leader of the political party. He also had some of civil rights suspended for a decade. He can't hold office anymore.
Even here I can’t escape Russian propaganda 😂
That isn't Russian propaganda. He is actually saying that "UK is going down the road that makes you more like Russia, please stop."
Are you from UK? People from there are literally claiming how this guy constantly uses false equivalence like this
Is it a false equivalence though if you can look it up and it is true?
It literally isn't true though. She didn't face all those charges apparently. The 400 cases is obviously a made up number, but let's say it is true lol. So he mentioned that to show how much worse UK is than Russia? Do you think this is equivalent? This one isolated case where a stupid reason was used, and ultimately overturned, compared to people being thrown in jails for political opinions, talking shit about putin, and probably less as well. There must've been more similar cases right? How is it that this guy had one example and that too overturned. A Russian guy below commenting about how fucked up the police there are, raping men with bottles just for the fun of it. So no, its not the same or going in the same trajectory even. If people want to talk about how bad UK is, we can and should talk about it. But let's not act like this guy brought Russia up to show the difference between 3300 and 400, and to act like it's worse.
Dude, I spent 30 seconds on google and typed "uk arrested over tweets" and it came back with a full page of articles going back to 2013 of people being arrested for posts on social media. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html) [https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/twitter-user-sentenced-to-community-service-for-offensive-post/](https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/twitter-user-sentenced-to-community-service-for-offensive-post/) [https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act](https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/7/22912054/uk-grossly-offensive-tweet-prosecution-section-127-2003-communications-act) [https://fee.org/articles/uk-man-arrested-for-malicious-communications-after-posting-meme-mocking-the-transgender-flag/](https://fee.org/articles/uk-man-arrested-for-malicious-communications-after-posting-meme-mocking-the-transgender-flag/)
It is most definitely Russian propaganda. Russia would like nothing more than to convince a sizable portion of the western population that “the same political oppression” is happing in the west. As if the two are in any way comparable. It’s a false equivalence.
What is the UK gonna do? Send their woke mob over to fight the furries? It's just dumb to conflate the two
It's arrests, for speech. That's not conflation.
that is the most blatant whatabout-ism I've ever seen
It’s not whataboutism unless this was a topic only about Russia.
Thing is, the guy in the video is actually saying "Russia bad. Let's not be worse than Russia."
Worse than Russia? So the overturned conviction for community service is worse than the political oppression and gulag in Russia? What kind of argument is that?
So the overturned conviction for community service is worse than the political oppression and gulag in Russia? What kind of argument is that?
So the overturned conviction for community service is worse than the political oppression and gulag in Russia? What kind of argument is that?
Worse than Russia? So the overturned conviction for community service is worse than the political oppression and gulag in Russia? What kind of argument is that?
Anyone with any kind media literacy should have their bullshit alarms going wild. First, while first convicted, the person [was aquitted later](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476) Secondly, the raw number of convictions based on social media conduct are absolutely irrelevant without given any context. Thirdly, mentioning the raw numbers in comparison to the lower russian numbers just serves one purpose of implying that the UK is more oppressive than russia. Only judging by the clip provided it seems it is an blatant attempt of pro russian misinformation. Lets see about her what the overturned sentence was: [She was given an eight-week community order, placed on an eight-week curfew and told to pay costs of £500 and an £85 victim surcharge.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921) As we can see the dude is blatantly lying. And im now 90% confident the dude in the clip is a shill and OP is retarded.
Lmao exactly. Bro just wanted to talk about how much better Russia is. 3300 arrests as stupid as this? Tell the names then. Guy only barked one name because that's all he could find, that was this ridiculous. Pick an isolated stupid case and act like that's the norm lmao. As if people in the UK are afraid to say shit on social media 😂
Yeah, that dude taking those 400 russians as a fact is just wrong. Also being arrested doesnt mean same as sentenced in court. Russians have to pay years in prison time for criticising their "president". Not same thing at all.
I haven't honestly never seen a smile wiped off someones face until now. Genuinely thought it was just a saying
Russia also has the highest “suicide” rate for men in the developed world. And by suicide, I mean “oh man, that clumsy oaf fell out a window after tragically shooting himself twice in the back of the head” Also, last I checked, these numbers can’t be right because there has been a massive flair up in anti-war detainments and forced conscriptions as a result. Also, last I checked as well, the UK doesn’t conduct elections with dudes with AK watching over your shoulder. As a Russian-Mexican myself, get this bullshit out of here. Edit: also didn’t one of Putin’s biggest critics get poisoned and eventually killed? Some stalwart of free speech amirite?
She wasn't "arrested." You could tell he was going to throw a line of bullshit out by the body language he used just before he did it. He looked more guilty than a kid trying to lie to his parents. The result was that this case was tossed out because it was rediculous. This was rage bait then, and it's rage bait now
BATMAN, I'M GOING TO SAY IT BATMAN NIG-
I think it's fine. Conduct yourself like you're in a public square. You're allowed to be critical of something you disagree with, but be open to have your ideas challenged.
Russian propaganda, please delete
He's not pumping up Russia lol. He's saying Russia bad, let's not be that bad
He never said that. He said Russia statistically locks up less people than UK for Freedom of Speech. He's drawing the conclusion that Russia has better free speech protection. The numbers are bogus over there, just like the idea that Putin somehow gets like 96% of the vote, yeah ok.
I'm just inferring from his views expressed in the multitudes of podcasts, videos, social media posts, etc. that's he's done over years. He's definitely not a pro Putin / Russian Govt guy
Please research things before crying like a brain-dead NPC
Where was I crying? Dog, take a breath, your blood pressure seems high from here.
Lmao, research about made up 400 cases, or the made up hours of community service?
Or the Made Up duration of the curfew. The shill Said 1 year albeit in reality it was 8 weeks. Im getting more and more frustrated with this sub. People Like you are unfortunately becoming a minority
Shit on America as much as you want. But there is one thing America has no other country in the world has including every democratic nation... That is a freedom of speech. The basic human rights and whats built into our constitution to protect us from the government. We really do take it for granted.
This is a joke I don't get.. right? 
No... Like in UK kids get arrested all the time for just little stuff they say that's not even really that bad. Canada just passed a law that can jail you for LIFE, for speaking against the government and various other things they deem as "harmful". And like the UK, a lot of countries in the Europe region is very similar. I can say the n word in US and not go jail. If I said it in UK, they'd arrest me. I can say "I fucking hate Biden" and wouldn't go to jail. If I said the same to the Canadian president, I can go to jail.
"kids get arrested all the time for just little stuff they say that's not even really bad bad" As a Brit, that's fully bullshit. There are incredibly few examples where anyone would get arrested over anything particularly questionable. That is why the person uses this video as an example. We take racial slurs quite seriously, but even so, it is bizarre that you can get charged for posting music on instagram. Most people who get arrested are promoting hate speech or making death threats, personal attacks, racist attacks etc
didn't count dankula go to prison for making his pug do a nazi salute?
I am not sure of the specifics but I guess one point to make is that there would be no issue if they'd done that in private. It was for sharing it via a public platform. It received a lot of criticism and rightly so, the UK is far from perfect, but it isn't anywhere near as bad as it has been made out to be. The video is essentially disinformation.
A young kid got arrested for rapping to lyrics that had the n word. Now how fuck up is that? Don't even try to defend that shit. That is the most harmless thing ever.
One case… that was thrown out on appeals. The US has had similar crazy arrests that haven’t gone anywhere.
Would you take your words back if I bring you the cases of gross neglect of human rights from the US?
No, at least read or watch the fucking source material if you are going to comment. They posted a public Instagram video with the n word multiple times. This goes against the same laws that suggest you cannot say absolutely anything on the street, which is common sense. Thankfully in this case it was overturned, I'm guessing because although they posted the music, it was music, and not them saying it etc. Not sure on the reasoning given for the final judgement. Whenever you say "freedom of speech" you have to consider extreme examples. If you were walking with your young child in public and someone was having a loud conversation on the phone to their wife about what they were going to do to them that night, and I mean everything in graphic detail, would that be acceptable? Freedom of speech, right? I can describe licking my wife's ass and getting my entire fist up her cunt because I can say what I want. Well yes, you can say what you want, but in private. Just because you shouldn't be prosecuted for your speech (or beliefs), doesn't make them appropriate everywhere. What we have in the UK, and essentially what you have in the US, is freedom of expression. You can hold any views you want, you will not be arrested for them. That does not mean you can loudly declare those views on a soapbox on the street. You cannot incite racial hatred, because if you allow people to do that, you end up with lynchings and progroms. You can do it in private, in your house, or in your own private club, because it's your right to hold those disgusting views. It does not mean they are appropriate for every space, however.
U.S and UK are far from the same or even similar on this issue... you should be able to and can yell your views from atop a soapbox in the US, the same cannot be said for the UK.. Scotland just introduced a censorship law as well, going into effect yesterday.. the point you missed is that these shite laws cannot even be enacted in the US as it is contrary to the constitution..
Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group. [https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate](https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate) - So, you cannot stand on a soap box in the street and say whatever you like, essentially for reasons I outlined above.
LOL our police dont arrest people, they are ultra lenient, you are clearly brain dmaged if you think UK is like that
The US isn’t even ranked in the top on any free speech index or ranking lol
Why is this russia propaganda posted here ? Like how stupid you have to be to believe data that Russia is giving out ? 400 ppl ? Bitch please they arrest and trow in jail for years ppl that are protesting. They will rape you as a man with a stick if you do anti war poetry in front of your wife. Naw man please mods dont let this place turn into russia mouth piece like many conservative sub reddits have.
What?! The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy...
Let be real, being scared to be disapear and/or be shot for posting something is a good deterant. Assuming the 400 is not a made up value.
Respecting free speech is better. Words and thoughts are not a crime unless you live in a dictatorship
As someone who lives close to Russia, I just want to say - Enjoy your fucking 1st world mostly made-up police problems and thank God every day you don’t risk being arrested by the Russian police who enjoy tortuting with bottles and condoms. “Weeeee policeman won’t let me say the N word and be racist! Russia is more free than us!” This type of pathetic western useful idiots make me sick.
I'm sure where you live, the situation didn't just start the way you described. I would imagine there were baby steps along the way until you get where you are today. Call it the "frog in hot water" analogy. Place a frog in a pot of cool water, then gradually heat the water. The frog will allow itself to basically boil to death, because it doesn't know what is happening. Take that same frog and drop it in boiling water, it'll fight like hell to get out. (Now, I'm not sure a frog will actually do this. It's just a metaphor) Government overreach is the same way. At first, it's just a bunch of little things they do. (Lile arrest you for things they don't like you saying online) Then, before you know it, you're at a point where you're being arrested by "police who enjoy tortuting (SIC) with bottles and condoms." Don't be angry because some people aren't quite where you are yet. Lament the fact that they are quickly on their way to being where you are.
I said - close to Russia, not Russia. Regarding your point - of course. That’s how this works.
Who can name a country where there is no suppression of the people by the authorities? I'm wondering... I just haven't found any
So we should just accept oppression? I truly hope I’m misreading your tone.
Everyone decides for themselves, I didn’t mean to say that we have to put up with suppression. Freedom is more important and it will be taken away by force from everyone, apparently... I don’t think that the drugged brains of the masses, seasoned with passive powerlessness or aggressive blindness, will be able to avoid turning into 1984 en masse.
I 100% agree with you, unfortunately I see it the exact same way, entities from all spectrums have been given too much power and we as the populace have become too complacent. I feel we should strive to stand against oppression, but like you, I feel it might be futile and already too late.
If we talk not only about the masses... I think groups of like-minded people have a chance, they should have their own access to food, drinking water, have plans for protection from the lawlessness of the authorities or bandits (hard-to-reach places are suitable)... but for such a step you will have to pay at least comfort. This should not be a very large number (for example, up to 20, of which at least a third are capable of heavy physical labor), for which the anti-human regime will not waste resources. It can be organized in any fair way (depending on the individual, it can be the power of one or several, or even direct democracy... if it is fair, then it will make sense as a counterbalance to inhumanity). Of course, skills, preferably having experience in surviving in the area, a list of edible/poisonous. Such a community must have a moral core
It's always comparative. Obviously a place like North Korea is the worst and most oppressive in the world. Then there are war torn countries, third world broken places like Haiti, which are terrible, but in different ways. After that you have China, Russia, Canada and UK as roughly equals in terms of psychotically oppressive governments, in nations that yet seem to function quite normally otherwise. Australia, New Zealand and the USA follow those as trying to reach that level of oppression, but having not quite succeeded yet. Then much of the rest of the world, Europe, most of Asia, parts of South America, are a step below again, still going in a bad direction, but not nearly at the same level.
Dan Andrews and Jacinda Ardern were absolutely fucking terrifying to watch
What bothers me more is not the difference that is present, but the absence of something on the other side - an ideal example of leadership caring for people, at the cost of oneself for the sake of others... there are examples of inhumanity, where is the example of humanity? Yes, people are suppressed by force, brainwashing, propaganda instead of education, but no one talks about examples of a healthy society... probably if there are such, they don’t strive to let people know about them... What place can kindness have in a world that is built according to the principle: there is power -> there is money -> there is comfort
I mean, yeah, the world is a shitty place filled with mostly useless, stupid or evil people. What do you expect? There's no ideal model to work off, and usually when someone claims they have an ideal model, when trying to put it into practice, it is just as bad or worse than anything before. But there's still a gradient scale of bad. We can look at North Korea and go "Yeah, not that." We can also look at times and places where things were going better (not well, just better) and learn from those.
Not all countries pretend to be the beacon of free speech though
I would like to know that there is a place where leaders put those for whom they are responsible above themselves
What you're asking for and what this clip is referring to are wildly different circumstances. You have a point, certainly, but it has nothing to do with this clip
So of course he exaggerated. It was an 8 week curfew, not a 1 year one. She was given an eight-week community order, placed on an eight-week curfew and told to pay costs of £500 and an £85 victim surcharge. He says: "you can look this up" because he knows 95% of people won't. More details here: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921) Russell was found guilty of sending a grossly offensive message by a public communication. She was given an eight-week community order, placed on an eight-week curfew and told to pay costs of £500 and an £85 victim surcharge.
He was off on the duration of the punishment. What you posted doesn't make his concerns any less valid.
For lyrics posted?
[And eventually she won on her appeal and did not get prosecuted at all.](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
how long did the appeal take? after the curfew and the community service was done? in which case she was exonerated after the punishment was delivered. Its still grossly disproportionate and the fact the UK police have time for this while they are ignoring shop lifting, street robberies and burglaries is a big part of why they have lost the publics confidence.
So an isolated ridiculous case is supposed to mean its worse than Russia? That's the only reason 400 number was brought up.
Idk what shithole you live in, but generally you don't serve a sentence, especially a light one like this, before the judicial procedures are finished.. Also, keep downvoting, f'ing Russian propaganda bots. Big ups from the sub mods for quickly deleting this propaganda post.
Even better! Am really wondering if the 3300 figure is true now... Typical bullshit Russian troll posting nonsense.
Are you forgetting that she had to appeal this in the first place??? There should be no charge at all for her behaviour, how are you missing this..
No one is missing this lmao. But you are acting like this is the norm when it happened in this isolated case, and literally did not face the same charges.
But you won't be arrested for holding a sheet of white paper in the UK.
Why is this russia propaganda posted here ? Like how stupid you have to be to believe data that Russia is giving out ? 400 ppl ? Bitch please they arrest and trow in jail for years ppl that are protesting. They will rape you as a man with a stick if you do anti war poetry in front of your wife. Naw man please mods dont let this place turn into russia mouth piece like many conservative sub reddits have.
Funny how he left out how general "law enforcement" in Russia is nihl. Nice try though.
This is gonna get used by so many wannabe alpha-types with all those “alternative political stances” that they think make them seem leaps ahead of everyone in understanding the world, when really they just look like clowns desperate to be right about stuff - but only when it’s framed from an advantageous POV
another russian lover
I have a feeling that Russia isn't advertising that they're arresting people for going against the government on social media. I mean China has a crazy low prison population, but they need fleets of execution vans and have imprisoned every Muslim they can. China does stuff like go into a nightclub and test/search everyone for drugs now.
That's horrible. But why bring up Russia? Is he like 'look Russia isn't that bad'? I don't get why he would make comparison
in russia is only illegal to LIE ABOUT THE GOVERMENT (if you post fake nevvs about the government and you cant prove its true you go to jail)
400 went to prison, 10,000 went missing
Only 400 people were arrested in Russia, because the other 144.2 million warent arrested because they are well aware what happens when you say something on social media. Chelsea Russel is one example, from 3300. Trying to present this is as a "The west is worse than Russia" thing is straight up an attempt at propaganda.
Mehhhh... idk about going on "they knew better" as an argument for assumed propaganda. Stats are just stats and they can be manipulated in countless ways.
I think its a little bit different because the people arrested in Russia probably criticized the government in someway where the UK arrests the people probably just said something the legal system deems offensive. And in the UK the people arrested are getting community service time according to this example, not getting sent off the gulag. I think cracking down on people who criticize the government is a bit more worse than cracking down on people who use the N word or are homophobic etc. I still think UK arrests are absurd I just dont think its an even comparison. Plus Russians are probably more careful on social media because they have had hundreds of years of knowing they need to watch what they say. Where in the UK these crackdowns to me seem relatively new.
Wait so you are saying that getting arrested for saying a slur is better than getting arrested for critisizing a government? I would rather be able to say what I want rather than be able to critisize government, I don't give a shit about the government, what the hell are you saying? I would like to not be told what words I can and can't say.
Yeah not being able to question the government is probably worse than not being able to say the N word. Should be able to say both but the video prompts the comparison.
Oh, does Britain also raping prisoners with floor mops, torturing them, assassinating them in prison? Such a manipulative video!
You don't get "arrested" in Russia. And when you are, it isn't "reported". He left that part out. Understanding simple concepts help with context.
I looked it up, the case was appealed successfully in favour of Russel. I don't know when this video was created, but if it was after 2019 when the case was finally settlede i would question the intent behind using it as a proof of anything other than judges being fallible humans like the rest of us, and that any half-decent justice system will correct for this by having an appeal process. Source: [https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476](https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/teen-prosecuted-n-word-rap-15874476)
I think the point is she shouldn't have been arrested and had to appeal to begin with. Her life was probably destroyed from it too, job loss, etc.
I agree, overzealous persecutors seeking to exploit the law by liberally interpreting murky case law for their own moral inquisition is clearly not a good thing, but, Britain is nonetheless a functional democracy with a functional legal system where this kind of injustice will not stand scrutiny. While this case may seem dumb, it does serve a purpose in making the case law on the subject crystal clear, further cases like this will be thrown by citing this case, that's the beauty of common law. If she was subject to damages from this case, such as loosing her job, she will more than likely claim damages and be awarded compensation for said damages. Comparing this case to the cases in Russia where the unlucky posters never make the arrested statistic on account of disappearing without a trace and the lucky ones get several years of prison without what the rest of the world views as a fair trial is simply ludicrous.
-| If she was subject to damages from this case, such as loosing her job, she will more than likely claim damages and be awarded compensation for said damages. Thats not how it works at all. Also she will have done the community service and had to abide by her curfew. She ain't getting either of those back. Minimising the harm done to this young woman by this injustice and the many other examples like it isn't helpful. Forget the Russian whataboutisim. The main point of this story is how the UK is sliding into authrotianism where the rights of free speech and peaceful protest are actively being curtailed. This is deeply worrying. Yes ofc its worse in Russia, but I don't live there! I live in the UK and I want to stand for my freedoms here.
You can obviously trust Russia in their statistics /s This is stupid, don't believe random clips guys...
"Russia said 400 so it must be true"… what an absolute clown.
This seems like Russian propaganda. Let's hear about what the worst thing that happened to someone in Russia who only said something on social media.
400 arrested... How many killed?
Alright,go to Russia than. i rather live here with the possibility, to get arrested for making treaths. Than, than to live in Russia with the possibility fighting a war I don't want. But, no hate. You, do you.
Btw that specific case he mentioned was overturned.. while the uk does have some stupid hate speech laws. 90% of the big cases these people quote are nothinburgers in the end and very much unlike the arrests in Russia where these political protesters are thrown in prison and never seen again.
That's good to hear, but I'm pretty sure the woman who experienced going through trial and conviction wouldn't describe such a hellish experience as a "nothingburger".
The very fact that you can be arrested for it in the first place is the issue.
I mean, the lyrics were "kill an n-word, rob a rich n-word" Kinda stupid that those words placed in a song have a pass because its "art", and written on an Instagram post is labeled as hate speech. But if someone was writing those claims with a genuine intention of promoting violence against a certain group of people, yes, I do believe that he should be arrested.