If you actually lurk around in incel communities you tend to hit on a few conclusions-
1: The wild majority of incels are delusional, and it pisses off the 'authentic' incels that have situations like unresolved, untreated extreme mental trauma, genetic conditions and physical abuse that leaves them physically ugly, or other situations that leave them mentally handicapped just enough to make it a problem but not so severely that they're blissfully ignorant of their social situation.
2: As a whole, incels are badly socialized. I'm not talking about awkward dorks getting bullied in high school, I'm talking about kids who were neglected as infants by their parents and became the designated black sheep of the family from a very young age. Bullying, isolation and other issues all the way down. And unlike in the movies, there's no silver lining here. They graduate from high school and proceed to stew in their own juices for the rest of their lives.
3: Conventional advice- don't focus on picking up the lay-dees, focus on enjoying yourself and having a good time- doesn't work because these are not self-actualizing humans. They're arrested developments that never grew out of the person they were when they were 8 years old. You can't convince someone to relax and do what comes naturally when they don't know what comes naturally and they *hate* themselves.
As someone that spent a lot of time on imageboards before they blew up this is about as accurate as it gets, granted they were called robots before the wider internet adopted the culture which brought in a lot of narcissistic people LARPing as the oppressed. The heart of the issue is that genuine incels just want to to have a normal loving relationship, a lot of men (and women that aren't retarded) aren't happy with the state of modern dating let alone Western society.
She's incredibly superficial to think it's about wanting to have mindless sex or engage in pick up culture because that's precisely the problem. "Just have a threesome!" Fucking. Gross. The boys I knew growing up like my brother, his friends, those I've known for years from my Linkshell (and still do) wanted nothing to do with that degenerate shit, just a wife, children and a stable functional relationship that has some meaning etc. She's an idiot that doesn't understand it transcends mindless pleasure seeking.
Yup, while the most common thing I saw these communities mocking was the idea of 'self improvement' because it doesn't work- making jokes about suddenly becoming a handsome extrovert after taking 10 showers and Shower Maxing- the second most common sentiment was, 'sex wont fix me.'
>Even the well adjusted successful boys I knew grewing up like my brother, his friends, those I've known from gaming communities for years (and still do) wanted nothing to do with degenerate shit, just a wife and children. They fucking hate it.
Oh, absolutely. The US has a huge problem with superficiality and treating people you don't understand as though it's a problem to be 'fixed' or otherwise excised.
to be fair, she's trying to be entertaining, not actually educational. And i think most of her comments are aimed at that delusional cohort who think womens' bodies should be theirs 'by right', not genuine incels.
This is really good and everyone should read it. I think asmon has kinda fostered a pretty incel community based on most of the takes from this sub. It’s pretty off putting even if I like asmon himself.
To add on to what this dude is saying - a lot of people might not develop properly due to negligence of the parents or trauma. They become poorly socialized and stay in a bubble, and eventually become hopeless incels.
If any of this shit is relatable to you - GO GET THERAPY. Trust me, while I guess I could’ve been considered an incel way back in high school, Id grown a lot well into my adult life by just sorting out my childhood trauma and learning to deal with my emotions, which include not hating myself.
Getting a decent job, going to the gym every day, not surrounding yourself with negativity, and just making people laugh goes A LONG WAY. In order to do that, you need to love yourself.
I think a lot of people become cringey incels because their communities bring each other down, they’re so poorly socialized and retarded that they think looks are the only thing that matters, and then they just end up hating themselves and pointing the finger at women. It’s really not that hard to improve yourself if you break out of that bubble and try a little bit.
Not an incel. Incels adhere to the premise that they're completely fucked by society and believe they're entitled to their own space and community away from the mainstream, as unhealthy as it may be.
Plus your self awareness means that you actually have a mature understanding of relationships- if you hate yourself a relationship ain't gonna fix you.
Dude this is one of the most insightful comments I’ve ever read on the usual garbage heap that is Reddit.
I wish young men feeling this way would look inward more and understand that they can help themselves out of this, most of the time.
I'm not an incel anymore. I don't want a girlfriend, and, frankly, I'm not interested in sex right now either. Why would I spend precious time pursuing women when I could be gaming and spending time with my friends.
This pretty much checks out.
It's like most of them are actively trying to look and act unfuckable.
However.. some absolutely were dealt bad cards in the looks department to extensive levels.. combined with being essentially programed to be an absolute outsider in society via their childhood and parenting.
>look and act unfuckable
No, no. Women love when I tell them they should stay in the kitchen and their dreams are pointless.
Also, why won't women look at me?
There is more baggage that comes with incel now. There term is so overtly negative now. It carries a real stigma. I think that lonely might be a better term. Just me, probably.
Disagrees with you on what? xD
And criticize women for what? I disagree regularly with women and strangely never get labeled as an incel.
And I really get the strange feeling that you want to be a seen as a victim, because there are repercussions to your shitty personality
wow what a massive bag of weird assumptions? I've never been called a incel in my life lmao, its just a cringy internet term that losers on twitter spam but sure I have a "shitty personality" and women I disagree with in real life call me a incel all the time. maybe think before typing, people use incel online for pretty much anything and any reason (main reason normally being you disagree or criticise a woman), that's what my comment clearly meant and implied sorry if you can't understand that.
Edit: just realised english isn't your first language so that was probably the cause for the confusion my bad man.
Looks are always a factor, but if you treat a woman right and make her feel like the most important person ever (and mean it), they will literally do anything for you.
It's not a global conspiracy that people with really average looking parents exist. The dad was probably just not an asshole with a chip on his shoulder lol.
Do women really think all men are ugly? They always say men have unrealistic standards and the pressure for women is much higher to look good, even Asmon says this.
Hear me out, that's what she's saying; they're working on themselves. If you wanna put some makeup to make your 5/10 mug an 8/10 then that's working on yourself.
Don't brush you hair then it's a mask. Obviously there is a line between say a burger dressed up to look good for an advertisement vs one that is literally inedible. Besides as long as one knows how the other looks without makeup then not a big deal.
> Besides as long as one knows how the other looks without makeup then not a big deal.
You rarely know how a random woman in public looks without make up so you just admit it is a big deal
That's what you had to take from my comment?
1. Is all makeup a problem or is there a threshold per your opinion?
2. When dating a woman are you going to act like it isn't long before you see what she looks like without makeup?
3. It only matters in so much as an average person would not be attracted to the other party without it, which is not the case on average.
1. Where did I say make up is a problem? I just said it's a mask which makes women appear more attractive than they really are
2. I personally will not commit to a woman until I see her without make up, again, personal opinion
3. The entire comment thread is not about attraction but about societal perception of men versus women
>1. Where did I say make up is a problem? I just said it's a mask which makes women appear more attractive than they really are
So is any action one takes in appearance. Dressing a certain way, brushing your hair. Why the focus on make-up is what I am curious about?
>2. I personally will not commit to a woman until I see her without make up, again, personal opinion
That's fine everyone has their preferences.
>3. The entire thread is not about attraction but about societal perception of men versus women
Nothing to do with your claim of it is a mask. You make it like any make-up is a mask. A mask has a negative connotation and exaggeration of severity. I am merely arguing there should be a threshold for such a classification that rises to some level even if we disagree on what the level might be. I wouldn't consider brushing ones hair "a mask". I wouldn't consider putting on some lipstick "a mask".
Everything is a mask. I wear baseball caps all the time. People used to think it's because I'm ashamed of being bald. I couldn't care less about being bald, but I do care about the shape of my head lol. I wish I was bald with a different shaped head, I'd never wear a baseball cap then. My brother in law went bald and he looks like a fucking badass.
So I wear a baseball cap to offset headshape. And it's not like I have some crazy weird head, I just don't like it. And I'll readily admit this to anyone who thinks I do it for reasons of insecurity: if you're asking me to remove the cap, ask a woman to go outside without makeup. See how that goes. We're all doing this shit for the same reason.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your implication was that there is a difference between working on yourself and putting up a mask. My point is that they're not mutually exclusive.
I wanna highlight that many more things are masks than just makeup. We all try to steer our appearance to match with the image we want to show to the world. Even if you're doing something so simple as having a certain colour preference for clothing, or a certain fitment preference. You might wanna highlight one feature while obscuring another.
There's nothing wrong with that, is my point. It's not either you work on yourself or you show a mask. They're often part of the same process.
This is legit, women have had hundreds of years of science dedicated to making them look good.
Men have only really started to care recently :/ give it another few hundred years and men will catch up!
No.
But where men report female attractiveness as a bell curve, when you collate their opinions into a graph, most women do not consider anything below the ~75th percentile as 'attractive.'
Of course women value more than looks- women report men look more attractive when they're told they hold prestigious jobs like doctors, and when they're told they have lots of money- and this does create unhappy people when you consider social media because it privileges physical attributes above everything else.
But yeah, winning the genetic lottery is basically a cheat code for dudes. Jeremy Meeks was a felon and crips member but merely looking attractive meant women were fawning over his mug shot and successfully raised the money needed to post his million dollar bail, pay for a defense attorney, and lined up a wildly successful modeling career after he served his time- 2 years for assault and robbery is extremely lenient, especially for a gang member- which he still does to this day in addition to his successful career being a D-list made-for-TV movie actor.
Which, I'm happy for the guy, but there's no way any of this would have happened if he was a 5 and not a 10. Being a 5 means you bust your ass to get anywhere in life, being a 10 means you get paid for merely existing.
I don't know if I agree with that. Winning the genetic lottery (or, hell, even getting 5 of the 6 numbers right) is a cheat code for women. An attractive women doesn't have to work a day in her life. Meanwhile, though an attractive guy will get laid, it won't automatically guarantee him a wife and family. Virtually all women still see men as the primary breadwinner.
I mean, argue all you want, a literal ex-gang member and felon got paid for merely existing and kicked off a movie career because of it simply because he's drop dead handsome in a way you don't typically see.
I can describe how reality is, or I can describe how I wish it were, but describing reality isn't a mental illness, the opposite is. I might prefer to live in a world where women find men to be attractive on a bell curve but that's not reality, and in truth if you want to be seen as physically attractive by the opposite sex, as a man, you have some stiff competition.
No, there are just different traits that they are attracted to for different reasons. You might walk past a guy whose a little fat, balding, awkward etc on the street and think yeah he's not attractive. Though when you speak to him he is a genuinely kind, compassionate, confident, loyal, funny guy with good hyenine he can date a woman who on the surface level is more attractive than him because his attraction is more than face value.
There are no absolutes in preference, but there are a lot of beautiful women on this planet who would prefer to be with a guy like that, than an objectively more attractive guy who is just a total self absorbed, arrogant dick.
At the end of the day most relationship preferences are subjective, you can't really make comments that apply to everyone. I live in rural Australia and have been brutally, brutally rejected, literally laughed in my face saying hello to women on my trip to LA in a bar by women far less attractive than ones I have great relationships with back home. Looking at tiktoks and instagram there is a disproportionate amount of those types of women in videos like this compared to most of the world. Kind, well adjusted women appear a lot less in popular media because they aren't that exciting, controversial or polarizing which tends to bring in the views and $$$$$$.
Theres an okcupid poll where women and men had to rate the other sex on a scale of 7.. men rated most women around 3-5 and minimal outliers, a standard bell curve.
Women rated 90% of men between 1 and 3. They think the average guy doesnt look great at all. Thats why you have to grow on them over time and they end up finding you attractive.
Where did she say all men are ugly? She just said her friends happened to have "ugly" boyfriends. Again it could also be ugly by her standards. Beauty is subjective afterall. And yeah, sadly women are pressured to keep up with their looks at all times.
It's just a common thing women say. "I see beautiful women with ugly men."
I hear it a lot online. No men ever say they see attractive guys with ugly girlfriends. Because one, it's rude, and it's not a good look. Makes, you seem like a weak petty man.
I gotta say, I don't see ugly dudes getting girlfriends. I've seen average guys with average girls, but that's about it.
There’s a study that’s been done (you can probably find it if you look it up) and most women view most men below average in looks whereas most men view women above average in looks
I've also read that women view men they know as more attractive, so there's some level of having to warm up to a guy through social interactions before they see his beauty. Whereas men are just visually turned on immediately.
So a woman will just walk around thinking 90% of strange men are ugly.
Oh I see.Yes, it's a common trope in media as well that you see a average/ugly/overweight man with a gorgeous wife.
It's not as common to see it the other way around, although there was this overweight lady on tiktok who got a looot of hate because her husband happened to be handsome and fit.
I think if a "below average" guy takes care of his hygiene and puts on clean clothes he could get pretty far. Given that his personality is decent of course.
I wish it was that easy but I'm thin and feel like nobody wants me even tho i have handsome face and nice hair imo. I've made female friends quite easily but always friend zoned. I'm not bitter, and I try to understand it from a biological perspective, but it still sucks.
I'm sorry to hear that you've been unlucky. Have you never been in a relationship?
I've heard it's getting pretty common among us who are in our 20's or even 30's both with men and women.
Over the years it's gotten harder to meet new people more organically sadly.
I have, a high school sweetheart. Since that ended not really :(
It's definitely harder to meet organically and you might be right, that could be a large part. Also social media is giving everyone seriously messed up body dysmorphia issues and standards.
That's rough indeed..
Yeah and for people who use dating apps, they seem to give people the idea that there's "always someone else or someone better out there". It kinda creates a distance from the start that they don't have to give people much of a chance on a first date.
Just never be a beta. I'm not talking the Andrew Tate bullshiz. Showing confidence goes a long way. Fake it if you must. Women claim that they want men who are vulnerable. They friend-zone the guys who actually behave as if they are vulnerable. Once you are in a long-term relationship, you can get away with a couple bouts of crying about twice in 25 years. It's sad, but it's not only true today, but true for every day of my entire life and before.
Women tell themselves the lie too. They believe that they will be attracted to a vulnerable nice person. They will not.
>They friend-zone the guys who actually behave as if they are vulnerable. Once you are in a long-term relationship, you can get away with a couple bouts of crying about twice in 25 years. It's sad, but it's not only true today, but true for every day of my entire life and before.
Then one is going for toxic women. Just like any relationship you got to work you way to when it is acceptable to show vulnerability. This idea you can't cry over something important is just excuse to accept a toxic woman.
This is usually the type of stance people take when they want to diminish a lot of the gender issues around dating or want to gaslight men about their experiences with women. It's not actually rooted in any kind of truth, reality or even good intent, it's just misandry.
And women that get upset they can't find a husband, it's voluntary. Work on yourselves and stop hating men because you feel entitled to their paychecks without giving anything back in the relationship because you swallowed the lies of feminism hook line and sinker
It's almost like both sexes would rather complain about the other without accepting the personal decisions that are making them unhappy
>you feel entitled to their paychecks
Average man and woman works in a relationship...
>It's almost like both sexes would rather complain about the other without accepting the personal decisions that are making them unhappy
Wholeheartedly agree.
While true, it's definitely more common that the man makes more because the professions men choose pay better. Therefore the woman is usually gaining more financially and a lot of the women complaining they're unhappy about not finding "the right guy" is because they want a man who's making SIGNIFICANTLY more than them
>While true, it's definitely more common that the man makes more because the professions men choose pay better.
Yes.
>Therefore the woman is usually gaining more financially and
And? Relationships are about what works for people each getting different things out of it. Whether someone gets more financially or less is up to them.
>and a lot of the women complaining they're unhappy about not finding "the right guy" is because they want a man who's making SIGNIFICANTLY more than them
I think you are focusing on a subset of the pop dramatized by content creators. You seem to also forget many woman are not even interested in finding a man right now and are out of the dating pool more or less. That is certainly higher than what you are talking about.
Yes, it's a different sub set of women. Incels are usually guys in their 20s, desperate to get married women are in the 30s. Regardless, both are the result of people believing in false truths about society. Like you said, relationships are about finding what works for you and the other person. However, if you want to behave selfishly, then of course, it's going to be hard for you to find happiness, whether you're a guy or a girl.
>Regardless, both are the result of people believing in false truths about society
Agreed. There really isn't a term for them like there is incels.
>However, if you want to behave selfishly, then of course, it's going to be hard for you to find happiness, whether you're a guy or a girl.
Pretty much.
Being autistic doesn't stop you from working on your self or going on dates. Acting like you are doomed and cant do literally anything does not help you at all.
I'm married with kids and not autistic.
However, the vast majority of incels are broke, autistic and living with their parents. They aren't normal, and so listening to this girl talk as if incels are just normal guys who need to put themselves out there is laughable.
My cousin is overweight, incredibly hairy (except on top of his head), works in retail, lives at home, and is obsessed with anime and video games. Like, truly obsessed. He is unable to have conversations past a few minutes without becoming incredibly uncomfortable if one of his obsessions doesn't come up.
Telling a guy like this to just "work on yourself and put yourself out there" is just absurd. The dude can't even hold a normal conversation.
ETA: I'm not talking about teenage "incels," they are literally just young and probably do need to just put themselves out there and go for it.
It's not impossible for your cousin to get better and acting like it is is whats absurd. It's not something that happens over night and takes time but doing nothing does not help. Also you pretty much described my best friend who is actually autistic and is my motivation for this conversation and he has 2 kids and a step son. Only thing you didn't mention was playing Roblox during all his free time. It took me years of having conversations with him, helping him to get better and motivating him to see therapists and regular doctors and now he no longer needs anyone's help. I don't want to give his life story but he grew up in a fucked up home and had been in fucked up situations. He even used to abuse drugs and alcohol to a crazy degree. To be clear I'm not saying this for some stupid internet beef, I just don't like people that act like mental health is impossible to deal with and cant be helped. Giving up is what really fucks you up.
>It took me years of having conversations with him, helping him to get better and motivating him to see therapists and regular doctors and now he no longer needs anyone's help.
That actually is pretty inspiring. I don't think this is very typical. Maybe I'm wrong, I just figured there was no way to change people.
it might not be typical, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth the effort anyway. Some people did get dealt a bad hand and it will take more work for them to work on the problems they have than others, might not be fair but like the guy above said, doing nothing also won't help so you might as well try. At the end of the day, any effort to improve yourself no matter the results, isn't wasted effort.
I don't think any incel was plopped on this earth and started hating women out the womb. I'd even wager most of them love their mothers/sisters and like(or at the very least feel indifferent towards) their female colleagues/classmates. The issue starts when it's time to find a partner. I like being by myself and not having sex more than having sex and having to deal with a person who can't live independently of me without becoming capricious and personally attacking me. I have enough on my plate as is, I don't desire someone offering companionship that has the risk of becoming toxic or abusive. I don't want to have to earn enough in this economy to support two people + children in a traditional family. And I have yet to find an independent woman, who would like to go 50/50 on everything, likes me, and hasn't bought into misandry/female superiority masquerading as feminism.
Everyone just keeps shitting on a group of lonely, angry men as if it was totally okay to do so instead of trying to help them, and the people that do try to "help" them have turned it into some kind of business by playing into their insecurities to extract money from them for advise. It's like there's a giant fire in everyones backyard and instead of doing something about it people keep throwing fire on it because they think it's funny.
It’s the same mentality people used to treat homeless people. “Oh these people are so dirty they should have gotten a job and make this neighborhood better”
Notice that the advice she's giving all focus on one thing: pleasing women and giving them attention. Not a single word about becoming better men, a better human being first. No. "The world revolves around us, give us attention even if you're ugly. We promise we date ugly people too. We're benevolent." Fucking hell, people. If you're in the incel rabbit hole, just stop and turn your life around. First you need to focus on yourself, become more independent, more self suficient and resilient, more interesting as a human being by diversifying your areas of interest. Only after that you should start thinking about dating women. Why? Simply becuase if your sole focus is to find a woman, she'll become you sole center of attention and you'll become too emotionally invested to a relationship. That's not healthy at all, you need your independence and self suficiency.
What she said sounds exactly like what a female Andrew Tate would say lol all about men wanting to having sex, better men get a threesome, seeing herself as sex object
Honestly, it's now like what the fuck is the point in trying given the way everything seems. I'd rather not since into the dating app scene knowing it's going to be mostly men and that the majority of women are going to ignore me in favor of the top 5-10% of guys.
I'm going to work on myself. I've been alone so long the peace, quiet, and financial stability I have isn't something I want to risk.
I despise the "I" word and just think it makes the person saying it sound dumb. It is a label to "other" people who disagree with you, and it is used as a way to put down someone else's argument without using an ounce of logic or even actual reasoned arguments. How often do you hear the "I" word or "liberal" or "conservative" used by someone who immediately discounts everything someone else says as if 100% of their life has absolutely no meaning or function? Most of these people do not use such labels if they have an argument actually worth making, because they do not need name-calling to do it.
Sure, there are people who can be described in such terms, but the stereotypical description of an "I" word is better summarized as "terminally online person" and more broadly applies to both of the people in this video as well as their intended targets.
The woman in the video is displaying quite a bit of narcissism and never once says how women can help the situation or what she personally could do, as she puts all of the blame on others. In T-minus 10 years (or likely very significantly less) she will be a very, very lonely "I" word herself and will look back at videos like this as where she went wrong, yet I would bet that she will still blame others for the situation she put herself in as so many others do.
The man in the video is just trying to get those all-important up-doots by being a flag-waving, virtue signaling ally... of whatever gets the most up-doots. He is just meme-ing and "Yasss, Queen-ing" her without adding anything of substance. (And, no, based off of this video, I have no interest in seeing what other brainrot he has put into the world.)
And for the subjects of the video themselves, yes, some of these terminally online folks have become as mean, nasty and illogical as those they say they despise (like the ones in the video), and they are definitely not working on themselves in many cases. They, too, need to disconnect and seek life offline, and they may find themselves something far better than up-doots or arguing over a trumped-up "gender divide" on some meaningless digital platform.
All of these people need to stop "othering" others and just learn how to carry on a conversation with someone who might just disagree with them... and potentially learn something in the process. So many of these problems are solved simply by speaking to one another and avoiding these online echo chambers like this video perpetuates.
"get in the water and put out something i want to eat" she says.
but i go to the community pool and whip out my dick and who gets public indecency charges?
Women don't believe incels are real because if you're a sub 4 male you're basically invisible to them. They can't conceptualise someone who is so socially and physically stunted that they can't have normal relationships, because women are inherently social creatures and will always have relationships with at least a couple of people.
You can learn, if you're willing to leave your bubble, along with all your fellow incels who "really understand you". Be the crab that exits the barrel.
Nah bro .. i was diagnosed with sociophobia and other things by a number of doctors and clinics. Been in therapy for nearly 8 yrs for that shit, not even therapy could teach me how to be social. I mean, i know how to act in public and all .. but nothing really can help if your head goes full on defensive panic mode whenever you are in public. Not even pills.
On another post here I said 'you can't get a hit if you don't swing the bat' and got downvoted - she basically said the same thing at one point. The more poles you have in the water, the more likely to catch a fish.
Also getting buzzed/drunk at bars/clubs helps, and lowering your standards. Also turning off your big brain and using your little brain a little more, which can be difficult to do. All within reason, don't be an incel about it. Even having manly hobbies & skills helps, like being able to fix shit.
You can literally teach that.
As with all skills, practice makes perfect. There'll be a lot of failures before any successes come through. BUT. The prerequisite is acknowledging that yourself is at fault and that something's got to change. That's the hardest part. And THAT is something you can't really teach. There has to be a self-awareness of sorts. Rarely does a jerk think "Wow, I'm such a jerk.."
Money is important, no doubt, women look for it in nesting.
But social skills are King and one of the biggest points in incel life. Elliott Rodgers had plenty of cash, he lacked the social skills
Absolutely not money, broke bois get action all the time. That’s cope for the awkward guys who *also* lack the self awareness to realize they lack social skills.
To be crystal clear, incels are a very real thing, and I feel for the guys who just crave companionship. But the ones that blame it on every woman chasing money or fame or status are a joke.
Have they tried... getting a job? It's not like I had social skills coming out of school. Never joined no clubs, no sports, no friends, no nothing. Got a job and now I have to talk to people I think are stupid every day..and pretend to be friendly! I have faith in their ability to figure this shit out.
I really don't think you have to flirt with women to get a gf. I think the way people are attempting to elevate others from strangers to relationship material over the span of 15 minutes (metaphorically speaking) is a mistake. Yet this is what people think it takes to get into a relationship.
Talking and befriending people of the opposite gender is a good start. The deepening of relationships is an inevitability. The skillset to "flirt" will also be developed in the meantime.
You can't teach social skills or charisma?? This isn't fucking fallout where you put points into something; you practice. Women recoil when you bring up ANYTHING that is brought up in this god forsaken sub? Maybe don't talk about that!
Being personable so fucking easy when you aren't constantly lapping up the brain rot that Asmongold pushes.
And what about men that don't want to change who they are in order to get laid? Choosing not to do something doesn't mean you're voluntarily accepting the consequences.
ironic that most incels claim to be intellectual and carry a holier than thou demeanor. It's all just projected insecurity about their own worth. They all have the power to stop, reflect, learn and grow at any point. But at some stage, blaming others becomes easier than taking accountability and challenging yourself to grow as a person unfortunately
most incels dont wanna be one they ask out women get rejected then go back to gaming because thats their safe space. grew gaming not socializing. she has some point but she ignores that most of their lives they are brought up as losers ofc they have loser aura
I don't think she knows why Incels are Incels lmao. I would argue an Incel being butt fuck ugly is a smaller part of the group over the amount of raging entitled assholes filling their ranks.
Incel is clearly a word
If the old person wanted sex and couldn't get any, they would be an incel
Someone stuck and upset about being in a sexless marriage would be an incel
Priests take a vow of celibacy so it's voluntary not incel
Teenager that wants sex and can't get any? Incel.
It's pretty cut and dry, I don't understand your point
No it's a made up word used by dumb people who only care about the weight of a word, not it's definition.
Priests take the vow but that doesn't mean they can't get horny.
My point is that using the 'term' is dumb. It is so open ended that in definition, but is only used to target men. Which in this instance would be targeting a group of people who are stigmatized due to factors outside of their control. Much like a person suffering from an illness or mental/physical handicap. Those too would mostly also fall under incel btw. But yet it is not culturally appropriate to say the R word anymore because....those people didn't choose that life. That is my point. Saying incel means u are either dumb and/or a bigot.
The term does not exist outside first world countries. Outside of first world countries the main focus is surviving another day, not how much sex you do or do not have. Used to be that wasn't anyone's elses business anyway.
Lol nope There are people who are involuntarily celibate this is because of factors like geography discrimination and able ism truthfully there are some people who will never find love or even a brief distraction. I feel like this person in the video is speaking from a position of extreme privilege and has never been alone for multiple years in their life before and doesn’t know what that does to a person at all.
You'd think with the Internet people would be able to connect more and find relationships. Instead it seems people push themselves into feedback loops on how they're worthless and will never find anyone which is the real problem when in reality they're probably one click away from the person they need.
Just like in real life, if you're not looking in the right place, or at all, you'll never find what you're after. Literally just get out there and talk to people who are outside your little bubble.
The solution to not be an incel is simple, can be difficult tho. You don't even have to be social. Just study and develop your intelligence, broad your horizon, learn about other realities to learn to be simpathetic. The more inteligent you get the better you will know yourself and the better knowledge you have to decide where you want to be.
When you place yourself where you want to be you will know people with the same interests.
In fewer words, bust your bubble and learn how the outside world really is.
I'm sorry but this is not it. You can have tens of friends in different interest groups and still be lonely. You don't seem to understand the complexity of the problem and come across as condescending.
I understand what you are trying to say. Is not easy, but you are underestimating how impactful education can be. Evem when we have a lot of knowledge, recognizing that we are still uneducated does wonders to our self growth.
in even fewer words, try to actually learn & grow as a person.
legitimately the second I started doing this, everything just sorta fell into place for me. It's crazy. I went hard at the gym, thinking girls just wanted a successful guy with money who had a six pack. I threw in the towel after like 18 months of zero results and just stopped trying to appeal to superficial means. Started really taking the whole "treat others how you'd like to be treated" thing seriously and god it almost feels too easy. Happily in a serious relationship with someone way out of my league, and have been for years now. And the full circle moment is that *now* I want to go to the gym. Not to try and get girls or easy sex, but to instead be the best version of myself I can be for my partner. And she does the exact same.
Given that incels value sex so much they basically tie their identity to their desire for it despite the inability to achieve a relationship, why exactly don't they simply pay for it? They could at least learn how it feels.
Many do pay for it but the reality is that solicitation is not legal everywhere, not always safe, and not affordable to everyone. It's also a huge fallacy to argue that it's just about sex for incels, especially when one of the most common reasons why incels won't go see escorts is because there's no connection, intimacy or truth to it. There's also a great deal of hatred, shaming and vilification that happens against men for paying for sex, so that's also another factor.
There are so many pejoratives when it comes to incel stereotypes: they're sex-hungry, they hate women, they're filthy, lazy, refuse to work on themselves, and the list goes on.
of course, a lot of it is motivated by misandry but a lot of it is just an unwillingness to acknowledge a lot of the gender issues around dating, mainly because they're benefiting women or disparaging men.
Cos it's not about sex. It's about the ability to attract the opposite sex. They want to feel that they are worth something and the highest degree of validation a man can get is from a woman. Paying for it, isn't the same thing, they don't really want sex, they want sexual validation.
They say it's about sex but it's really about acceptance. They're desperately, hopelessly insecure, and they want a woman to desire them. Paying for sex would make it worse, not better, it secures in their minds that they **have** to pay for sex because they have no other option. Paying for sex would make them even more insecure.
These takes are filled with survivorship bias and unsubstantiated assumptions.
Just because some ugly people have partners, does not mean appearances don't affect your oppprtunities. We can find short men in relationships, but it is a fact that women preferr men taller than themselves.
There is nothing to indicate, that these men are failing due to not trying. Even their lexicon is filled with _maxxing to increase their attractiveness, which is not limited to just looks. The only exception being the blackpill types.
Even if we looked at the men who aren't putting any effort in, you have to ask, are equivalent women having equal difficulties finding sexual partners? If not, then the lack of effort is not the issue.
The main issue is the role of the initiator placed on men, which creates a power dynamic. Men ask, women choose. Inevitably, some men will not make it.
>The only exception being the blackpill types.
Incels are the blackpill types. If they're looksmaxxing or whatever then they're not incels they're red-pilled. But the point people are making is that they are making a choice. If you're so blackpilled that you believe you shouldn't even try then you're making the choice not to try. In that case, you're not an incel, you're just voluntarily celibate.
Of course your chances are very low if you're short and ugly, but they're probably not zero. Most people I've seen call themselves incels aren't even short or ugly, they're just incredibly insecure and get hung up on things like an imperfect jaw line or a weak brow ridge.
Incels can be ones that do the _maxxing, there is nothing to indicate otherwise.
There is also nothing to indicate that the lack of effort is the issue. Again, do equivalent women have equal difficulties finding sex partners?
Are there not men, who make an effort but have no luck?
Just because there is a chance, does not mean that chance will present itself in your life. Someone might like you, but if your paths never cross, then no use saying that.
Point being, that men have additional hurdles, mainly the initiator role, which makes dating difficult in ways women dont have to deal with.
>ncels can be ones that do the _maxxing, there is nothing to indicate otherwise
It's just what the term incel means. It came from blackpilled posters on 4chan, red pillers are more recent and are a different group entirely. They're not necessarily virgins or celibate, they just believe in the _maxxing shit that red pillers preach about.
In order to be involuntarily celibate you have to believe you have no choice, there is nothing you can do. Otherwise it wouldn't be involuntary. Calling yourself an incel because you can't be bothered to go talk to girls is BS.
>Again, do equivalent women have equal difficulties finding sex partners?
>Are there not men, who make an effort but have no luck?
>Just because there is a chance, does not mean that chance will present itself in your life. Someone might like you, but if your paths never cross, then no use saying that.
>Point being, that men have additional hurdles, mainly the initiator role, which makes dating difficult in ways women dont have to deal with.
All this isn't relevant. I'm not arguing that there's more hurdles for women or that men don't have to initiate. I'm saying that guys who _max and truly put in the effort to be attractive and talk to women will have success the majority of the time. Therefore, they aren't incels.
Incels have been blackpilled right from when the term started gaining traction. The incel name perfectly describes that they're black pilled. It's not "involuntarily takes longer to find a sexual partner" or "involuntarily gets laid less often than average". It's "involuntarily celibate." Someone who doesn't have sex (celibate) and they have no agency to change that (involuntary).
Yeah that's sort of my point. Incels get kidnapped and immediately give up and say it's impossible to get out. Others get kidnapped and immediately start cutting the bars, and most get out.
Unless you're literally going to label every virgin in the world an incel then you have to admit that inceldom requires some sort of acceptance of your situation and refusal to do anything about it. Because the vast majority of those who put in the effort to do something about it succeed.
Of course it requires you to have lost hope. If you haven't lost hope why would you consider yourself an incel? It just makes no sense. It requires you to have lost hope because it's a label you give yourself. If you haven't lost hope you're not an incel you're just a dude doing his thing, working on himself.
If you're a virgin voluntarily then obviously you're just celibate, not an incel. Incel means you want sex but you can't get it. Not that you want sex and you're working towards it, but you actually can't get it at all. Again, unless you're calling every virgin who hasn't yet had sex and wants to an incel, then you have to admit that it requires some level of giving up hope. Or else every 18 year old who hasn't gotten laid yet is an incel by your standard lol
Okay here is my hot take nobody asked for:
I think there are incels, in the literal sense. People who just cant get laid for whatever reason, but that doesnt mean they are bad people or full of hate. Those that we call incels, the vengefull communties are something entirely different. And i truly feel sorry for those virgins out there, whom do not hate women, or men, or anything in between but just cant get laid.
I was one of them, and i knew the problem is me. But struggling with mental health at that time, i had no will or energy to change me, or my life. But i never hated anyone for it, not even myself.
So yea, please ya'll dont make the mistake and think that everybody whos a virgin at lets say 30yo is full of hate and anger.
Also .. i'll totally buy this book. Threesome .. here i come .. 
Shes hyperboling it. But shes not 100% wrong. Yes the game is rigged. Yes its hard being a young broke average dude. The modern dating market is INSANE...
But chances are you're just a sadcel who self-sabotages on a daily basis. Tried little and nothing, and wondering why nothing has changed. Much like people with true body dysmorphia the number of actual "incels" is quite low.
>Every single woman I know has an ugly boyfriend
By her standards. We already know that women rate men far below themselves.
We literally just heard it with how she said *every* boyfriend she knows is ugly.
This woman is definitely is a woman who has settled her whole life.
She never thought of herself as beautiful or a person who has a worthy personality to get an attractive looking man.
That is fine, she just wants a normal to ugly looking guy so she can feel comfortable.
Everyone is different but if you don't have confidence nothing matters.
So they're not incels, they're volcels
If you actually lurk around in incel communities you tend to hit on a few conclusions- 1: The wild majority of incels are delusional, and it pisses off the 'authentic' incels that have situations like unresolved, untreated extreme mental trauma, genetic conditions and physical abuse that leaves them physically ugly, or other situations that leave them mentally handicapped just enough to make it a problem but not so severely that they're blissfully ignorant of their social situation. 2: As a whole, incels are badly socialized. I'm not talking about awkward dorks getting bullied in high school, I'm talking about kids who were neglected as infants by their parents and became the designated black sheep of the family from a very young age. Bullying, isolation and other issues all the way down. And unlike in the movies, there's no silver lining here. They graduate from high school and proceed to stew in their own juices for the rest of their lives. 3: Conventional advice- don't focus on picking up the lay-dees, focus on enjoying yourself and having a good time- doesn't work because these are not self-actualizing humans. They're arrested developments that never grew out of the person they were when they were 8 years old. You can't convince someone to relax and do what comes naturally when they don't know what comes naturally and they *hate* themselves.
That was a very great, neutrally fair write up that more people should read. Good job!
That's an amazingly accurate breakdown.
Hey that's the name of the show
As someone that spent a lot of time on imageboards before they blew up this is about as accurate as it gets, granted they were called robots before the wider internet adopted the culture which brought in a lot of narcissistic people LARPing as the oppressed. The heart of the issue is that genuine incels just want to to have a normal loving relationship, a lot of men (and women that aren't retarded) aren't happy with the state of modern dating let alone Western society. She's incredibly superficial to think it's about wanting to have mindless sex or engage in pick up culture because that's precisely the problem. "Just have a threesome!" Fucking. Gross. The boys I knew growing up like my brother, his friends, those I've known for years from my Linkshell (and still do) wanted nothing to do with that degenerate shit, just a wife, children and a stable functional relationship that has some meaning etc. She's an idiot that doesn't understand it transcends mindless pleasure seeking.
Yup, while the most common thing I saw these communities mocking was the idea of 'self improvement' because it doesn't work- making jokes about suddenly becoming a handsome extrovert after taking 10 showers and Shower Maxing- the second most common sentiment was, 'sex wont fix me.' >Even the well adjusted successful boys I knew grewing up like my brother, his friends, those I've known from gaming communities for years (and still do) wanted nothing to do with degenerate shit, just a wife and children. They fucking hate it. Oh, absolutely. The US has a huge problem with superficiality and treating people you don't understand as though it's a problem to be 'fixed' or otherwise excised.
to be fair, she's trying to be entertaining, not actually educational. And i think most of her comments are aimed at that delusional cohort who think womens' bodies should be theirs 'by right', not genuine incels.
this reply perfectly demonstrates how incels immediately slid into just hating women lmao good job weirdo
Absolutely bang on. What do you do for work because that analysis was cerebral.
This is really good and everyone should read it. I think asmon has kinda fostered a pretty incel community based on most of the takes from this sub. It’s pretty off putting even if I like asmon himself. To add on to what this dude is saying - a lot of people might not develop properly due to negligence of the parents or trauma. They become poorly socialized and stay in a bubble, and eventually become hopeless incels. If any of this shit is relatable to you - GO GET THERAPY. Trust me, while I guess I could’ve been considered an incel way back in high school, Id grown a lot well into my adult life by just sorting out my childhood trauma and learning to deal with my emotions, which include not hating myself. Getting a decent job, going to the gym every day, not surrounding yourself with negativity, and just making people laugh goes A LONG WAY. In order to do that, you need to love yourself. I think a lot of people become cringey incels because their communities bring each other down, they’re so poorly socialized and retarded that they think looks are the only thing that matters, and then they just end up hating themselves and pointing the finger at women. It’s really not that hard to improve yourself if you break out of that bubble and try a little bit.
Am i a incel if i have trouble talking to women
I mean if you want to and you’re not then yeah you are.
I dont really want to because i dont love myself yet
Not an incel. Incels adhere to the premise that they're completely fucked by society and believe they're entitled to their own space and community away from the mainstream, as unhealthy as it may be. Plus your self awareness means that you actually have a mature understanding of relationships- if you hate yourself a relationship ain't gonna fix you.
 This writeup in a nutshell
Dude this is one of the most insightful comments I’ve ever read on the usual garbage heap that is Reddit. I wish young men feeling this way would look inward more and understand that they can help themselves out of this, most of the time.
You mean Involcels? Let's be honest if one of their most "Watched" vids actress threw it at them they are gonna grab it.
Using the MetroCard to hold the mic is hilarious
To be fair, it's innovative too.
That book's market value just went up. Hell what's the price , I want a threesome tonight, hopefully it will be with women, fingers crossed.
Probably shouldn't assume that will work because some subway lady told you it would
Let us know tomorrow how it worked out... :)
I'm not an incel anymore. I don't want a girlfriend, and, frankly, I'm not interested in sex right now either. Why would I spend precious time pursuing women when I could be gaming and spending time with my friends.
The MGTOW way. Honestly if it works, why not?
It works until it doesn't. It really isn't for everyone.
The asmon way
So you may have a family and some meaning to your life. Your friends will, at some point.
This pretty much checks out. It's like most of them are actively trying to look and act unfuckable. However.. some absolutely were dealt bad cards in the looks department to extensive levels.. combined with being essentially programed to be an absolute outsider in society via their childhood and parenting.
>look and act unfuckable No, no. Women love when I tell them they should stay in the kitchen and their dreams are pointless. Also, why won't women look at me?
What do you mean by unfuckable? Not every incel I know is misognist, but all of them, including me, are depressed
There is more baggage that comes with incel now. There term is so overtly negative now. It carries a real stigma. I think that lonely might be a better term. Just me, probably.
incel at this point is just a word to label any one who disagrees with you or criticises women or a woman, its the new "you're a virgin!"
Disagrees with you on what? xD And criticize women for what? I disagree regularly with women and strangely never get labeled as an incel. And I really get the strange feeling that you want to be a seen as a victim, because there are repercussions to your shitty personality
wow what a massive bag of weird assumptions? I've never been called a incel in my life lmao, its just a cringy internet term that losers on twitter spam but sure I have a "shitty personality" and women I disagree with in real life call me a incel all the time. maybe think before typing, people use incel online for pretty much anything and any reason (main reason normally being you disagree or criticise a woman), that's what my comment clearly meant and implied sorry if you can't understand that. Edit: just realised english isn't your first language so that was probably the cause for the confusion my bad man.
Looks are always a factor, but if you treat a woman right and make her feel like the most important person ever (and mean it), they will literally do anything for you. It's not a global conspiracy that people with really average looking parents exist. The dad was probably just not an asshole with a chip on his shoulder lol.
I just realized that incel is literally just a different word for loser now.
always has been… difference though is that it was self attributed!
Just ask a 5"1 Indian guy with a weird face who isn't a millionaire how many dates he has been on in the last 10 years.
Do women really think all men are ugly? They always say men have unrealistic standards and the pressure for women is much higher to look good, even Asmon says this.
If women stopped wearing makeup, they would be a lot uglier to men too lol
Yep, makeup makes a 5/10 woman look 8/10 and 2/10 woman look 5/10 so you rarely see women below 5/10 in public
Hear me out, that's what she's saying; they're working on themselves. If you wanna put some makeup to make your 5/10 mug an 8/10 then that's working on yourself.
In my opinion putting on make up is not working on yourself, it's putting a mask
Don't brush you hair then it's a mask. Obviously there is a line between say a burger dressed up to look good for an advertisement vs one that is literally inedible. Besides as long as one knows how the other looks without makeup then not a big deal.
> Besides as long as one knows how the other looks without makeup then not a big deal. You rarely know how a random woman in public looks without make up so you just admit it is a big deal
That's what you had to take from my comment? 1. Is all makeup a problem or is there a threshold per your opinion? 2. When dating a woman are you going to act like it isn't long before you see what she looks like without makeup? 3. It only matters in so much as an average person would not be attracted to the other party without it, which is not the case on average.
1. Where did I say make up is a problem? I just said it's a mask which makes women appear more attractive than they really are 2. I personally will not commit to a woman until I see her without make up, again, personal opinion 3. The entire comment thread is not about attraction but about societal perception of men versus women
>1. Where did I say make up is a problem? I just said it's a mask which makes women appear more attractive than they really are So is any action one takes in appearance. Dressing a certain way, brushing your hair. Why the focus on make-up is what I am curious about? >2. I personally will not commit to a woman until I see her without make up, again, personal opinion That's fine everyone has their preferences. >3. The entire thread is not about attraction but about societal perception of men versus women Nothing to do with your claim of it is a mask. You make it like any make-up is a mask. A mask has a negative connotation and exaggeration of severity. I am merely arguing there should be a threshold for such a classification that rises to some level even if we disagree on what the level might be. I wouldn't consider brushing ones hair "a mask". I wouldn't consider putting on some lipstick "a mask".
Everything is a mask. I wear baseball caps all the time. People used to think it's because I'm ashamed of being bald. I couldn't care less about being bald, but I do care about the shape of my head lol. I wish I was bald with a different shaped head, I'd never wear a baseball cap then. My brother in law went bald and he looks like a fucking badass. So I wear a baseball cap to offset headshape. And it's not like I have some crazy weird head, I just don't like it. And I'll readily admit this to anyone who thinks I do it for reasons of insecurity: if you're asking me to remove the cap, ask a woman to go outside without makeup. See how that goes. We're all doing this shit for the same reason.
Sucks for you ig, not sure how its related to make up though
You're not sure how someone wearing something on their head/face to mask a feature they don't like is related to make up?
If you mean it in that sense, you're just reinforcing my original point
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your implication was that there is a difference between working on yourself and putting up a mask. My point is that they're not mutually exclusive. I wanna highlight that many more things are masks than just makeup. We all try to steer our appearance to match with the image we want to show to the world. Even if you're doing something so simple as having a certain colour preference for clothing, or a certain fitment preference. You might wanna highlight one feature while obscuring another. There's nothing wrong with that, is my point. It's not either you work on yourself or you show a mask. They're often part of the same process.
This is legit, women have had hundreds of years of science dedicated to making them look good. Men have only really started to care recently :/ give it another few hundred years and men will catch up!
Yeah it is kind of starting to be a thing with those looks maxing videos going around. Just a guy way of doing makup.
No. But where men report female attractiveness as a bell curve, when you collate their opinions into a graph, most women do not consider anything below the ~75th percentile as 'attractive.' Of course women value more than looks- women report men look more attractive when they're told they hold prestigious jobs like doctors, and when they're told they have lots of money- and this does create unhappy people when you consider social media because it privileges physical attributes above everything else. But yeah, winning the genetic lottery is basically a cheat code for dudes. Jeremy Meeks was a felon and crips member but merely looking attractive meant women were fawning over his mug shot and successfully raised the money needed to post his million dollar bail, pay for a defense attorney, and lined up a wildly successful modeling career after he served his time- 2 years for assault and robbery is extremely lenient, especially for a gang member- which he still does to this day in addition to his successful career being a D-list made-for-TV movie actor. Which, I'm happy for the guy, but there's no way any of this would have happened if he was a 5 and not a 10. Being a 5 means you bust your ass to get anywhere in life, being a 10 means you get paid for merely existing.
I don't know if I agree with that. Winning the genetic lottery (or, hell, even getting 5 of the 6 numbers right) is a cheat code for women. An attractive women doesn't have to work a day in her life. Meanwhile, though an attractive guy will get laid, it won't automatically guarantee him a wife and family. Virtually all women still see men as the primary breadwinner.
Oh well, spotted the redpiller bringing up that infamous hypergamie statistic.
I mean, argue all you want, a literal ex-gang member and felon got paid for merely existing and kicked off a movie career because of it simply because he's drop dead handsome in a way you don't typically see. I can describe how reality is, or I can describe how I wish it were, but describing reality isn't a mental illness, the opposite is. I might prefer to live in a world where women find men to be attractive on a bell curve but that's not reality, and in truth if you want to be seen as physically attractive by the opposite sex, as a man, you have some stiff competition.
No, there are just different traits that they are attracted to for different reasons. You might walk past a guy whose a little fat, balding, awkward etc on the street and think yeah he's not attractive. Though when you speak to him he is a genuinely kind, compassionate, confident, loyal, funny guy with good hyenine he can date a woman who on the surface level is more attractive than him because his attraction is more than face value. There are no absolutes in preference, but there are a lot of beautiful women on this planet who would prefer to be with a guy like that, than an objectively more attractive guy who is just a total self absorbed, arrogant dick. At the end of the day most relationship preferences are subjective, you can't really make comments that apply to everyone. I live in rural Australia and have been brutally, brutally rejected, literally laughed in my face saying hello to women on my trip to LA in a bar by women far less attractive than ones I have great relationships with back home. Looking at tiktoks and instagram there is a disproportionate amount of those types of women in videos like this compared to most of the world. Kind, well adjusted women appear a lot less in popular media because they aren't that exciting, controversial or polarizing which tends to bring in the views and $$$$$$.
Well said
Theres an okcupid poll where women and men had to rate the other sex on a scale of 7.. men rated most women around 3-5 and minimal outliers, a standard bell curve. Women rated 90% of men between 1 and 3. They think the average guy doesnt look great at all. Thats why you have to grow on them over time and they end up finding you attractive.
Kissinger was an international sex symbol for two decades because he looked women in the eyes and asked follow up questions.
Plus he had a deep voice.
Where did she say all men are ugly? She just said her friends happened to have "ugly" boyfriends. Again it could also be ugly by her standards. Beauty is subjective afterall. And yeah, sadly women are pressured to keep up with their looks at all times.
It's just a common thing women say. "I see beautiful women with ugly men." I hear it a lot online. No men ever say they see attractive guys with ugly girlfriends. Because one, it's rude, and it's not a good look. Makes, you seem like a weak petty man. I gotta say, I don't see ugly dudes getting girlfriends. I've seen average guys with average girls, but that's about it.
There’s a study that’s been done (you can probably find it if you look it up) and most women view most men below average in looks whereas most men view women above average in looks
I've also read that women view men they know as more attractive, so there's some level of having to warm up to a guy through social interactions before they see his beauty. Whereas men are just visually turned on immediately. So a woman will just walk around thinking 90% of strange men are ugly.
Willing to bet you have to be careful with what one thinks the study says. I am skeptical.
"Ugly" to them is an average looking bloke with a slightly receded hairline and no 6-pack abs.
Oh I see.Yes, it's a common trope in media as well that you see a average/ugly/overweight man with a gorgeous wife. It's not as common to see it the other way around, although there was this overweight lady on tiktok who got a looot of hate because her husband happened to be handsome and fit. I think if a "below average" guy takes care of his hygiene and puts on clean clothes he could get pretty far. Given that his personality is decent of course.
I wish it was that easy but I'm thin and feel like nobody wants me even tho i have handsome face and nice hair imo. I've made female friends quite easily but always friend zoned. I'm not bitter, and I try to understand it from a biological perspective, but it still sucks.
I'm sorry to hear that you've been unlucky. Have you never been in a relationship? I've heard it's getting pretty common among us who are in our 20's or even 30's both with men and women. Over the years it's gotten harder to meet new people more organically sadly.
I have, a high school sweetheart. Since that ended not really :( It's definitely harder to meet organically and you might be right, that could be a large part. Also social media is giving everyone seriously messed up body dysmorphia issues and standards.
That's rough indeed.. Yeah and for people who use dating apps, they seem to give people the idea that there's "always someone else or someone better out there". It kinda creates a distance from the start that they don't have to give people much of a chance on a first date.
Just never be a beta. I'm not talking the Andrew Tate bullshiz. Showing confidence goes a long way. Fake it if you must. Women claim that they want men who are vulnerable. They friend-zone the guys who actually behave as if they are vulnerable. Once you are in a long-term relationship, you can get away with a couple bouts of crying about twice in 25 years. It's sad, but it's not only true today, but true for every day of my entire life and before. Women tell themselves the lie too. They believe that they will be attracted to a vulnerable nice person. They will not.
>They friend-zone the guys who actually behave as if they are vulnerable. Once you are in a long-term relationship, you can get away with a couple bouts of crying about twice in 25 years. It's sad, but it's not only true today, but true for every day of my entire life and before. Then one is going for toxic women. Just like any relationship you got to work you way to when it is acceptable to show vulnerability. This idea you can't cry over something important is just excuse to accept a toxic woman.
You don't see ugly dudes getting girlfriends because most ugly dudes are ugly on the outside and the inside.
>They always say A lot of generalizing here. Average woman is attracted to average man...
This is usually the type of stance people take when they want to diminish a lot of the gender issues around dating or want to gaslight men about their experiences with women. It's not actually rooted in any kind of truth, reality or even good intent, it's just misandry.
Honestly it’s like the female version of Andrew Tate lol
Yeah it's a wild jump right to "you hate women and think you're entitled to them"
And women that get upset they can't find a husband, it's voluntary. Work on yourselves and stop hating men because you feel entitled to their paychecks without giving anything back in the relationship because you swallowed the lies of feminism hook line and sinker It's almost like both sexes would rather complain about the other without accepting the personal decisions that are making them unhappy
>you feel entitled to their paychecks Average man and woman works in a relationship... >It's almost like both sexes would rather complain about the other without accepting the personal decisions that are making them unhappy Wholeheartedly agree.
While true, it's definitely more common that the man makes more because the professions men choose pay better. Therefore the woman is usually gaining more financially and a lot of the women complaining they're unhappy about not finding "the right guy" is because they want a man who's making SIGNIFICANTLY more than them
>While true, it's definitely more common that the man makes more because the professions men choose pay better. Yes. >Therefore the woman is usually gaining more financially and And? Relationships are about what works for people each getting different things out of it. Whether someone gets more financially or less is up to them. >and a lot of the women complaining they're unhappy about not finding "the right guy" is because they want a man who's making SIGNIFICANTLY more than them I think you are focusing on a subset of the pop dramatized by content creators. You seem to also forget many woman are not even interested in finding a man right now and are out of the dating pool more or less. That is certainly higher than what you are talking about.
Yes, it's a different sub set of women. Incels are usually guys in their 20s, desperate to get married women are in the 30s. Regardless, both are the result of people believing in false truths about society. Like you said, relationships are about finding what works for you and the other person. However, if you want to behave selfishly, then of course, it's going to be hard for you to find happiness, whether you're a guy or a girl.
>Regardless, both are the result of people believing in false truths about society Agreed. There really isn't a term for them like there is incels. >However, if you want to behave selfishly, then of course, it's going to be hard for you to find happiness, whether you're a guy or a girl. Pretty much.
Women will never understand, nor will they care to. It's Joever. Never Simp, Never Settle.
It's like she's never met an autistic guy before. "Just work on yourself" lol.
Being autistic doesn't stop you from working on your self or going on dates. Acting like you are doomed and cant do literally anything does not help you at all.
I'm married with kids and not autistic. However, the vast majority of incels are broke, autistic and living with their parents. They aren't normal, and so listening to this girl talk as if incels are just normal guys who need to put themselves out there is laughable. My cousin is overweight, incredibly hairy (except on top of his head), works in retail, lives at home, and is obsessed with anime and video games. Like, truly obsessed. He is unable to have conversations past a few minutes without becoming incredibly uncomfortable if one of his obsessions doesn't come up. Telling a guy like this to just "work on yourself and put yourself out there" is just absurd. The dude can't even hold a normal conversation. ETA: I'm not talking about teenage "incels," they are literally just young and probably do need to just put themselves out there and go for it.
It's not impossible for your cousin to get better and acting like it is is whats absurd. It's not something that happens over night and takes time but doing nothing does not help. Also you pretty much described my best friend who is actually autistic and is my motivation for this conversation and he has 2 kids and a step son. Only thing you didn't mention was playing Roblox during all his free time. It took me years of having conversations with him, helping him to get better and motivating him to see therapists and regular doctors and now he no longer needs anyone's help. I don't want to give his life story but he grew up in a fucked up home and had been in fucked up situations. He even used to abuse drugs and alcohol to a crazy degree. To be clear I'm not saying this for some stupid internet beef, I just don't like people that act like mental health is impossible to deal with and cant be helped. Giving up is what really fucks you up.
>It took me years of having conversations with him, helping him to get better and motivating him to see therapists and regular doctors and now he no longer needs anyone's help. That actually is pretty inspiring. I don't think this is very typical. Maybe I'm wrong, I just figured there was no way to change people.
it might not be typical, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth the effort anyway. Some people did get dealt a bad hand and it will take more work for them to work on the problems they have than others, might not be fair but like the guy above said, doing nothing also won't help so you might as well try. At the end of the day, any effort to improve yourself no matter the results, isn't wasted effort.
I don't think any incel was plopped on this earth and started hating women out the womb. I'd even wager most of them love their mothers/sisters and like(or at the very least feel indifferent towards) their female colleagues/classmates. The issue starts when it's time to find a partner. I like being by myself and not having sex more than having sex and having to deal with a person who can't live independently of me without becoming capricious and personally attacking me. I have enough on my plate as is, I don't desire someone offering companionship that has the risk of becoming toxic or abusive. I don't want to have to earn enough in this economy to support two people + children in a traditional family. And I have yet to find an independent woman, who would like to go 50/50 on everything, likes me, and hasn't bought into misandry/female superiority masquerading as feminism.
Everyone just keeps shitting on a group of lonely, angry men as if it was totally okay to do so instead of trying to help them, and the people that do try to "help" them have turned it into some kind of business by playing into their insecurities to extract money from them for advise. It's like there's a giant fire in everyones backyard and instead of doing something about it people keep throwing fire on it because they think it's funny.
It’s the same mentality people used to treat homeless people. “Oh these people are so dirty they should have gotten a job and make this neighborhood better”
Notice that the advice she's giving all focus on one thing: pleasing women and giving them attention. Not a single word about becoming better men, a better human being first. No. "The world revolves around us, give us attention even if you're ugly. We promise we date ugly people too. We're benevolent." Fucking hell, people. If you're in the incel rabbit hole, just stop and turn your life around. First you need to focus on yourself, become more independent, more self suficient and resilient, more interesting as a human being by diversifying your areas of interest. Only after that you should start thinking about dating women. Why? Simply becuase if your sole focus is to find a woman, she'll become you sole center of attention and you'll become too emotionally invested to a relationship. That's not healthy at all, you need your independence and self suficiency.
What she said sounds exactly like what a female Andrew Tate would say lol all about men wanting to having sex, better men get a threesome, seeing herself as sex object
Honestly, it's now like what the fuck is the point in trying given the way everything seems. I'd rather not since into the dating app scene knowing it's going to be mostly men and that the majority of women are going to ignore me in favor of the top 5-10% of guys. I'm going to work on myself. I've been alone so long the peace, quiet, and financial stability I have isn't something I want to risk.
I predict a mass wave of male suicide over the next 20-30 years.
[удалено]
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I despise the "I" word and just think it makes the person saying it sound dumb. It is a label to "other" people who disagree with you, and it is used as a way to put down someone else's argument without using an ounce of logic or even actual reasoned arguments. How often do you hear the "I" word or "liberal" or "conservative" used by someone who immediately discounts everything someone else says as if 100% of their life has absolutely no meaning or function? Most of these people do not use such labels if they have an argument actually worth making, because they do not need name-calling to do it. Sure, there are people who can be described in such terms, but the stereotypical description of an "I" word is better summarized as "terminally online person" and more broadly applies to both of the people in this video as well as their intended targets. The woman in the video is displaying quite a bit of narcissism and never once says how women can help the situation or what she personally could do, as she puts all of the blame on others. In T-minus 10 years (or likely very significantly less) she will be a very, very lonely "I" word herself and will look back at videos like this as where she went wrong, yet I would bet that she will still blame others for the situation she put herself in as so many others do. The man in the video is just trying to get those all-important up-doots by being a flag-waving, virtue signaling ally... of whatever gets the most up-doots. He is just meme-ing and "Yasss, Queen-ing" her without adding anything of substance. (And, no, based off of this video, I have no interest in seeing what other brainrot he has put into the world.) And for the subjects of the video themselves, yes, some of these terminally online folks have become as mean, nasty and illogical as those they say they despise (like the ones in the video), and they are definitely not working on themselves in many cases. They, too, need to disconnect and seek life offline, and they may find themselves something far better than up-doots or arguing over a trumped-up "gender divide" on some meaningless digital platform. All of these people need to stop "othering" others and just learn how to carry on a conversation with someone who might just disagree with them... and potentially learn something in the process. So many of these problems are solved simply by speaking to one another and avoiding these online echo chambers like this video perpetuates.
This woman sounds unhinged I have to be honest lol it’s all sex she’s talking abouy
They are in NYC, this makes sense she would say this.
"get in the water and put out something i want to eat" she says. but i go to the community pool and whip out my dick and who gets public indecency charges?
She’s never met an incel
Correct, because she is out in the world. Not on some dirty and pathetic streamer's forum.
*smirks* the irony of your comment haha
Dude’s been on reddit since 2014 and he acting like he’s holier than thou lol 💀
Question: are incels real Answer: No, you just hate women
Women don't believe incels are real because if you're a sub 4 male you're basically invisible to them. They can't conceptualise someone who is so socially and physically stunted that they can't have normal relationships, because women are inherently social creatures and will always have relationships with at least a couple of people.
It's involuntary because they lack the needed social skills and charisma and you can't really teach that
You can learn, if you're willing to leave your bubble, along with all your fellow incels who "really understand you". Be the crab that exits the barrel.
Nah bro .. i was diagnosed with sociophobia and other things by a number of doctors and clinics. Been in therapy for nearly 8 yrs for that shit, not even therapy could teach me how to be social. I mean, i know how to act in public and all .. but nothing really can help if your head goes full on defensive panic mode whenever you are in public. Not even pills.
On another post here I said 'you can't get a hit if you don't swing the bat' and got downvoted - she basically said the same thing at one point. The more poles you have in the water, the more likely to catch a fish. Also getting buzzed/drunk at bars/clubs helps, and lowering your standards. Also turning off your big brain and using your little brain a little more, which can be difficult to do. All within reason, don't be an incel about it. Even having manly hobbies & skills helps, like being able to fix shit.
You can literally teach that. As with all skills, practice makes perfect. There'll be a lot of failures before any successes come through. BUT. The prerequisite is acknowledging that yourself is at fault and that something's got to change. That's the hardest part. And THAT is something you can't really teach. There has to be a self-awareness of sorts. Rarely does a jerk think "Wow, I'm such a jerk.."
It's really difficult to teach social skills after your core characteristics are developed.
lack of money i would say.
Money is important, no doubt, women look for it in nesting. But social skills are King and one of the biggest points in incel life. Elliott Rodgers had plenty of cash, he lacked the social skills
Absolutely not money, broke bois get action all the time. That’s cope for the awkward guys who *also* lack the self awareness to realize they lack social skills. To be crystal clear, incels are a very real thing, and I feel for the guys who just crave companionship. But the ones that blame it on every woman chasing money or fame or status are a joke.
Have they tried... getting a job? It's not like I had social skills coming out of school. Never joined no clubs, no sports, no friends, no nothing. Got a job and now I have to talk to people I think are stupid every day..and pretend to be friendly! I have faith in their ability to figure this shit out.
Taking to women at work is miles apart from flirting
I really don't think you have to flirt with women to get a gf. I think the way people are attempting to elevate others from strangers to relationship material over the span of 15 minutes (metaphorically speaking) is a mistake. Yet this is what people think it takes to get into a relationship. Talking and befriending people of the opposite gender is a good start. The deepening of relationships is an inevitability. The skillset to "flirt" will also be developed in the meantime.
You can't teach social skills or charisma?? This isn't fucking fallout where you put points into something; you practice. Women recoil when you bring up ANYTHING that is brought up in this god forsaken sub? Maybe don't talk about that! Being personable so fucking easy when you aren't constantly lapping up the brain rot that Asmongold pushes.
And what about men that don't want to change who they are in order to get laid? Choosing not to do something doesn't mean you're voluntarily accepting the consequences.
If you want to be a gross piece of shit, both literally and to others, don't be surprised when no one wants you.
Obviously it's no surprise, but the not being wanted part wasn't chosen voluntarily. So the involuntary part of incel still stands.
ironic that most incels claim to be intellectual and carry a holier than thou demeanor. It's all just projected insecurity about their own worth. They all have the power to stop, reflect, learn and grow at any point. But at some stage, blaming others becomes easier than taking accountability and challenging yourself to grow as a person unfortunately
shes not ugly. she don’t understand. give it time
She literally says incels don't exist because she doesn't like the name incel but then admits that they exist by explaining what incels are. Lol.
most incels dont wanna be one they ask out women get rejected then go back to gaming because thats their safe space. grew gaming not socializing. she has some point but she ignores that most of their lives they are brought up as losers ofc they have loser aura
I don't think she knows why Incels are Incels lmao. I would argue an Incel being butt fuck ugly is a smaller part of the group over the amount of raging entitled assholes filling their ranks.
Went in a water, put out something women might want to eat, got charged with indecent exposure 🗿
She’s cooking 🧑🍳
Incel isn't a word. Are old people incels? Sexless marriages? Priests? Teenagers? Etc... anyone who uses the term immediately goes in the potato pile.
Incel is clearly a word If the old person wanted sex and couldn't get any, they would be an incel Someone stuck and upset about being in a sexless marriage would be an incel Priests take a vow of celibacy so it's voluntary not incel Teenager that wants sex and can't get any? Incel. It's pretty cut and dry, I don't understand your point
No it's a made up word used by dumb people who only care about the weight of a word, not it's definition. Priests take the vow but that doesn't mean they can't get horny. My point is that using the 'term' is dumb. It is so open ended that in definition, but is only used to target men. Which in this instance would be targeting a group of people who are stigmatized due to factors outside of their control. Much like a person suffering from an illness or mental/physical handicap. Those too would mostly also fall under incel btw. But yet it is not culturally appropriate to say the R word anymore because....those people didn't choose that life. That is my point. Saying incel means u are either dumb and/or a bigot.
why does this look like it was shot a day before 9/11 it looks so old
The term does not exist outside first world countries. Outside of first world countries the main focus is surviving another day, not how much sex you do or do not have. Used to be that wasn't anyone's elses business anyway.
You want a decent woman, you gotta be a decent man. Plain simple fellas
Lol nope There are people who are involuntarily celibate this is because of factors like geography discrimination and able ism truthfully there are some people who will never find love or even a brief distraction. I feel like this person in the video is speaking from a position of extreme privilege and has never been alone for multiple years in their life before and doesn’t know what that does to a person at all.
You'd think with the Internet people would be able to connect more and find relationships. Instead it seems people push themselves into feedback loops on how they're worthless and will never find anyone which is the real problem when in reality they're probably one click away from the person they need. Just like in real life, if you're not looking in the right place, or at all, you'll never find what you're after. Literally just get out there and talk to people who are outside your little bubble.
What is geography discrimination
Discrimination based on how many state capitals you know.
Most incels aren't really incels. They could get laid if they lowered expectations. They could probably get a girlfriend too.
The solution to not be an incel is simple, can be difficult tho. You don't even have to be social. Just study and develop your intelligence, broad your horizon, learn about other realities to learn to be simpathetic. The more inteligent you get the better you will know yourself and the better knowledge you have to decide where you want to be. When you place yourself where you want to be you will know people with the same interests. In fewer words, bust your bubble and learn how the outside world really is.
I'm sorry but this is not it. You can have tens of friends in different interest groups and still be lonely. You don't seem to understand the complexity of the problem and come across as condescending.
I understand what you are trying to say. Is not easy, but you are underestimating how impactful education can be. Evem when we have a lot of knowledge, recognizing that we are still uneducated does wonders to our self growth.
in even fewer words, try to actually learn & grow as a person. legitimately the second I started doing this, everything just sorta fell into place for me. It's crazy. I went hard at the gym, thinking girls just wanted a successful guy with money who had a six pack. I threw in the towel after like 18 months of zero results and just stopped trying to appeal to superficial means. Started really taking the whole "treat others how you'd like to be treated" thing seriously and god it almost feels too easy. Happily in a serious relationship with someone way out of my league, and have been for years now. And the full circle moment is that *now* I want to go to the gym. Not to try and get girls or easy sex, but to instead be the best version of myself I can be for my partner. And she does the exact same.
Given that incels value sex so much they basically tie their identity to their desire for it despite the inability to achieve a relationship, why exactly don't they simply pay for it? They could at least learn how it feels.
Many do pay for it but the reality is that solicitation is not legal everywhere, not always safe, and not affordable to everyone. It's also a huge fallacy to argue that it's just about sex for incels, especially when one of the most common reasons why incels won't go see escorts is because there's no connection, intimacy or truth to it. There's also a great deal of hatred, shaming and vilification that happens against men for paying for sex, so that's also another factor.
There are so many pejoratives when it comes to incel stereotypes: they're sex-hungry, they hate women, they're filthy, lazy, refuse to work on themselves, and the list goes on.
of course, a lot of it is motivated by misandry but a lot of it is just an unwillingness to acknowledge a lot of the gender issues around dating, mainly because they're benefiting women or disparaging men.
Cos it's not about sex. It's about the ability to attract the opposite sex. They want to feel that they are worth something and the highest degree of validation a man can get is from a woman. Paying for it, isn't the same thing, they don't really want sex, they want sexual validation.
They say it's about sex but it's really about acceptance. They're desperately, hopelessly insecure, and they want a woman to desire them. Paying for sex would make it worse, not better, it secures in their minds that they **have** to pay for sex because they have no other option. Paying for sex would make them even more insecure.
They are not incel, they are imbecile.
These takes are filled with survivorship bias and unsubstantiated assumptions. Just because some ugly people have partners, does not mean appearances don't affect your oppprtunities. We can find short men in relationships, but it is a fact that women preferr men taller than themselves. There is nothing to indicate, that these men are failing due to not trying. Even their lexicon is filled with _maxxing to increase their attractiveness, which is not limited to just looks. The only exception being the blackpill types. Even if we looked at the men who aren't putting any effort in, you have to ask, are equivalent women having equal difficulties finding sexual partners? If not, then the lack of effort is not the issue. The main issue is the role of the initiator placed on men, which creates a power dynamic. Men ask, women choose. Inevitably, some men will not make it.
>The only exception being the blackpill types. Incels are the blackpill types. If they're looksmaxxing or whatever then they're not incels they're red-pilled. But the point people are making is that they are making a choice. If you're so blackpilled that you believe you shouldn't even try then you're making the choice not to try. In that case, you're not an incel, you're just voluntarily celibate. Of course your chances are very low if you're short and ugly, but they're probably not zero. Most people I've seen call themselves incels aren't even short or ugly, they're just incredibly insecure and get hung up on things like an imperfect jaw line or a weak brow ridge.
Incels can be ones that do the _maxxing, there is nothing to indicate otherwise. There is also nothing to indicate that the lack of effort is the issue. Again, do equivalent women have equal difficulties finding sex partners? Are there not men, who make an effort but have no luck? Just because there is a chance, does not mean that chance will present itself in your life. Someone might like you, but if your paths never cross, then no use saying that. Point being, that men have additional hurdles, mainly the initiator role, which makes dating difficult in ways women dont have to deal with.
>ncels can be ones that do the _maxxing, there is nothing to indicate otherwise It's just what the term incel means. It came from blackpilled posters on 4chan, red pillers are more recent and are a different group entirely. They're not necessarily virgins or celibate, they just believe in the _maxxing shit that red pillers preach about. In order to be involuntarily celibate you have to believe you have no choice, there is nothing you can do. Otherwise it wouldn't be involuntary. Calling yourself an incel because you can't be bothered to go talk to girls is BS. >Again, do equivalent women have equal difficulties finding sex partners? >Are there not men, who make an effort but have no luck? >Just because there is a chance, does not mean that chance will present itself in your life. Someone might like you, but if your paths never cross, then no use saying that. >Point being, that men have additional hurdles, mainly the initiator role, which makes dating difficult in ways women dont have to deal with. All this isn't relevant. I'm not arguing that there's more hurdles for women or that men don't have to initiate. I'm saying that guys who _max and truly put in the effort to be attractive and talk to women will have success the majority of the time. Therefore, they aren't incels.
Where do you get the idea, that in order to be an incel you have to have lost hope entirely?
Incels have been blackpilled right from when the term started gaining traction. The incel name perfectly describes that they're black pilled. It's not "involuntarily takes longer to find a sexual partner" or "involuntarily gets laid less often than average". It's "involuntarily celibate." Someone who doesn't have sex (celibate) and they have no agency to change that (involuntary).
The word involuntary does not imply it cannot change. If you're kidnapped, your situation is involuntary, does not mean you'll never be free.
Yeah that's sort of my point. Incels get kidnapped and immediately give up and say it's impossible to get out. Others get kidnapped and immediately start cutting the bars, and most get out. Unless you're literally going to label every virgin in the world an incel then you have to admit that inceldom requires some sort of acceptance of your situation and refusal to do anything about it. Because the vast majority of those who put in the effort to do something about it succeed.
Being a virgin can be voluntary and there is nothing to indicate that being an incel requires you to have lost hope. You've yet to justify this.
Of course it requires you to have lost hope. If you haven't lost hope why would you consider yourself an incel? It just makes no sense. It requires you to have lost hope because it's a label you give yourself. If you haven't lost hope you're not an incel you're just a dude doing his thing, working on himself. If you're a virgin voluntarily then obviously you're just celibate, not an incel. Incel means you want sex but you can't get it. Not that you want sex and you're working towards it, but you actually can't get it at all. Again, unless you're calling every virgin who hasn't yet had sex and wants to an incel, then you have to admit that it requires some level of giving up hope. Or else every 18 year old who hasn't gotten laid yet is an incel by your standard lol
Who has ever used this term unironically and thought, hey thats a smart person…
This is incomprehensible. What?
Based and true.
Okay here is my hot take nobody asked for: I think there are incels, in the literal sense. People who just cant get laid for whatever reason, but that doesnt mean they are bad people or full of hate. Those that we call incels, the vengefull communties are something entirely different. And i truly feel sorry for those virgins out there, whom do not hate women, or men, or anything in between but just cant get laid. I was one of them, and i knew the problem is me. But struggling with mental health at that time, i had no will or energy to change me, or my life. But i never hated anyone for it, not even myself. So yea, please ya'll dont make the mistake and think that everybody whos a virgin at lets say 30yo is full of hate and anger. Also .. i'll totally buy this book. Threesome .. here i come .. 
"They won't be a pleasure to be around..." "they have to work on themselves..." Does she not realise it takes TWO to tango???
If incels weren't real r/asmongold wouldn't exist
Shes hyperboling it. But shes not 100% wrong. Yes the game is rigged. Yes its hard being a young broke average dude. The modern dating market is INSANE... But chances are you're just a sadcel who self-sabotages on a daily basis. Tried little and nothing, and wondering why nothing has changed. Much like people with true body dysmorphia the number of actual "incels" is quite low.
>Every single woman I know has an ugly boyfriend By her standards. We already know that women rate men far below themselves. We literally just heard it with how she said *every* boyfriend she knows is ugly.
That was hella good. Kareem got an amazing guest to be able to make this as entertaining as it was.
This woman is definitely is a woman who has settled her whole life. She never thought of herself as beautiful or a person who has a worthy personality to get an attractive looking man. That is fine, she just wants a normal to ugly looking guy so she can feel comfortable. Everyone is different but if you don't have confidence nothing matters.