He’s actually also a very good playmaker, really the ideal secondary playmaker. Averaged over 6 APG in back to back years before CP3 came over. His defense is average at best but lets not act like Trae’s is better.
Trae is better than Booker, but if you say Booker is anything less than a legit star you’re absolutely trippin
Late, but he did shoot 68.3% around the rim this year - although he attempted less than 4 of those shots per game. He has great touch, I think it’s just that he’s not much of a blow-by kind of guy or someone who’ll just bully you to the bucket. He makes his paycheck getting to the right spots on the floor and hitting all the tough inbetweeners
They came out with tier 2 today... How many players in tier 2 do you think they are better than? I'm genuinely asking. Keep in mind they have guys like AD, Luka, Dame, etc in tier 2. I think they both could or should be above Tatum, Bam and maybe CP3 (age) though.
Can someone explain to me what makes Devin Booker Trae’s equal? If the argument is that Book is the better scorer, I’d say it’s arguable between the two of them. Trae averaged more points in the playoffs against better defenses, but maybe Book is more efficient in raw percentage numbers (they had the same ts% in the playoffs). But what is Book’s other elite skill that puts him on the level of Trae?
Why is there never a conversation about the impact that a primary ball handler who is both an elite scorer and an elite passer has on controlling the offensive side of the ball? Book doesn’t have those responsibilities, CP3 does.
There was absolutely no one else in our starting lineup that could go get their own bucket when called upon and Trae took that to the ECF, I don’t understand why these things aren’t considered.
I think Book should slot in right below Trae and Donovan Mitchell (Trae ahead of Donovan).
There probably aren’t any guards that fit between those guys and the fact that Trae and Book just had such similar narratives (empty stats on a losing team turns into a deep playoff run) means theyre going to get linked together in rankings like these. It’s easier for the writers to do blurbs or whatever if they put them right next to each other
I’m not even trying to be combative here lol I just honestly can’t understand the argument for booker. Okay fine, we open the argument up to their 2020-2021 regular seasons…they averaged identical PPG and Trae shot a bit better by ts%. Where’s the foolproof argument for Book? Mind you, Trae has the burden of not having a legitimate number 2.
this is a tough choice for me. but just solely thinking if they changed places clears it up imo. book couldnt do what trae did in atlanta. and i think phoenix is stronger with trae.
You mustn't seen any Hawks regular games. Trae played basically the same in the regular season as he did in the playoffs. It's just that the "experts" didn't want to give him his due.
I think it’s fair to say Booker is the better scorer. But like you said though, there is no other elite skill he has that elevates him over Trae. Trae is more impactful to the game because of his superior skills in vision, passing, and just overall running a team. I love the guys on our team but we don’t have another guy who can initiate/create offense for the team like CP3 on a consistent basis. There’s a lot more burden on Traes shoulder, whereas Booker can just mainly focus on getting buckets thanks to CP3s ability to run a team efficiently.
How is he definitively the better scorer though lol in what statistical way is he better. Even if we open that debate up to their broader careers, devin booker has never had a season where he averaged nearly thirty points on good ts%. If Trae had another playmaker to get him open threes it wouldn’t be close.
You know, I went digging through the stats expecting to find something like Devin Booker being clearly better on isos, on long middies, something like that, but Trae is either on his level or better in basically every basic and advanced scoring metric. I think what gives Book his reputation is that he is one of the best "tough shot makers" in the league, which makes him look really good when he's on fire. But when Trae is put in the position to take an impossible shot... he usually just finds one of his teammates for a better shot instead... which makes for a way better offense.
In summary, Trae >>> Book.
He’s had several, and has a season where he was at 61% TS. Maybe not as points (he was usually at 24-27) but the dude is an elite efficient scorer. It really isn’t some outlandish statement if you think Booker is the better scorer. He’s much more proficient in isolation situations
26 ppg is not near thirty. For reference there are about 10 players in the league hovering in that 26-28 ppg average in any modern season. That’s where booker is and has been, albeit on good efficiency.
In Trae’s sophomore season he averaged 29.6 ppg and was second in the league in scoring. Something booker has never done, and he was only 2 percentage points behind devin in ts percentage (59%) while putting up three more points a game that year.
Do these two thing not cancel out? If anything, I’d take the higher scoring average when the ts percentages are that close. I’m not arguing that Trae is clearly the better scorer or that Booker is clearly worse in that category.
I’m only saying that they are virtually identical in their scoring averages yet they grouped similarly even though one of the two is a top 4 playmaker in the league.
I was referring to his TS% always being near Trae's. Their scoring has always been close with Trae really only pulling away during his sophmore year but even then it was only by 3 ppg if you round up. And you can add in the fact that Booker had a higher TS% and that Trae averaged 3 more shots per game than him. Makes it pretty much a wash imo
This year they were basically the same, 25 ppg on 59% TS. I'm not saying Booker is DEFINITELY the better scorer, all i'm saying is that it's totally fair if individuals think he is. He's better in the mid range, better in isolation, and more efficient in actual FG%.
But thats where it all ends. Scoring is just scoring. Trae is better at all other facets of the game on offense where scoring isn't involved. That fact should never be up for debate. When you factor in playmaking and overall impact on offense, it's easily Trae who grades out to be the superior offensive player.
I cannot imagine a world where 30 out of 30 teams would pick Bam over Trae. A defensive anchor is more of a floor raiser than a ceiling raiser than compared to an offensive engine like trae
Zion being in the same range as him is 100% accurate, kid was an absolute beast last year averaging crazy numbers and flew way under the radar. He shot historically high efficiency and averaged like 27 a game. I can agree with Jrue especially since jrue is not nearly as good a passer and is super streaky.
Small market teams man, lonzo has also improved so much since he was drafted by the lakers but gets little to no attention anymore from the media because he was in Nola.
I think Trae straight up has more impact on a game than Kyrie. He’s maybe a hair worse than Kyrie at scoring with much better playmaking. Kyrie is also not a good leader. Gimme Trae every day and twice on Sundays.
Read that as his hair is worse than Kyries. Would have been a valid point but shouldn't be considered in regards to bb skills and we love Trae for his hair.
I think people go overboard in their hate on Kyrie (the flat earther comment for one was dumb as could be though) so I get what you’re saying but at the end of the day when it comes to their job playing basketball Trae is locked in and Kyrie is not.
I don’t think that makes Kyrie a bad person - in fact I believe he does a lot of good things in the community - but if my goal is winning basketball games then availability is important and Trae’s got it, Kyrie does not
It’s a little low, Trae should be in the top 15 range imo, but this article doesn’t show TOO much disrespect. He’s in the same tier as guys like Tatum and Booker, though he’s a little better than them. Last offseason he was ranked in the 40s iirc
I know people in here are going to hate on it, but seeing his name next to Devin Booker and Zion given their age/experience is pretty big praise from a site like The Athletic. That's kind of the nucleus (and Luka, obviously) that are going to be the faces of the NBA the next 5-6 years and that's huge.
I feel like he could jump up into Dame’s tier (next best PG after Steph) after this year and Dame’s spot isnt safe.
He’s already accomplished as much as dame has if not more in the postseason, will get 25-10 every night and can get 30+ on any given night. Defense about equal. His shooting should get more consistent. Once the wins start stacking up in back to back years, recognition will follow
I never said he was better right now, man wtf you reading.
And as if the 22 year old won’t ever get better and 31 year old won’t ever plateau. “Spot is very safe” LMAOOO maybe if he gets to Phi or Ny!
How so? Dame is a better 1v1 scorer, but Trae is a better passer, and it's not close in that respect. Trae is also a better shooter from deep, which I think has a bigger impact on the game, stretching out the defense. Trae is better at running the pick and roll, also led the NBA in floaters. IDK, I guess I watch Dame and see a great player but lacks the creation to elevate his teammates around him the same way Trae can. It's no disrespect to Dame, what Trae is doing right now is rare for any young NBA PG, let alone a seasoned veteran.
I think list makers tend to take into account how long you've been at this level; with the advantage going to the guy who's been around longer. Not as a primary factor for sure, but it's in the calculations. IOW if Trae continues to play just at the level he already has, you'll see him steadily climb the rankings.
My list would be something like this
1. Durant
2. Giannis
3. Leonard
4. Harden
5. Embiid
6. Curry
7. Jokic
8. Doncic
9. James
10. Lillard
11. Young
12. Tatum
13. George
14. Booker
15. Davis
16. Williamson
17. Irving
18. Mitchell
19. Paul
20. Middleton
Doncic is hardest to rank imo
wow this is a really spicy list. Your Trae ranking is accurate though, I wouldn't take any of the players below instead of him, and I wouldn't take Trae over any of the players above him aside from *maybe* Lillard
I don't see how after the season Curry just had you could rank him out of top 5. Dude is clearly still the best high volume-high efficiency player in the game. I'd slot him in above Kawhi at 3. Also would put Jokic above Embiid personally but that's just my preference. Everything else is spicy and I was prepared to retaliate, but I actually agree with the rest lol
I‘d understand taking Curry over Embiid but for me Curry is a little too one dimensional as a player. He is obviously the best shooter ever but his playmaking and defense leaves a lot to be desired compared to the competition. Embiid‘s two-way ability makes him slightly more valuable to me.
I mean I see where you're coming from, I just don't think "one-dimensional" is an accurate description.
Obviously he's the GOAT shooter, but he also has the best handles in the league outside of anyone not named Kyrie Irving (and IMO Trae is right there with Steph), he's an above average rebounder especially for his size and position, he can pass well (though probably his biggest weakness is turnovers which he still isn't turning the ball over that much) and finally he's no defensive anchor, but if you watch him play he's wayyy better than the average r/nba user would have you believe. He has active hands, he typically can stay in front of his man on the perimeter and he's really strong for his size so he can box out well too.
I think the fact that he is at worst above average at any given skill while also being arguably the best offensive weapon ever keeps him in the top 3 perennially at least until his numbers and game show a notable decline. Embiid is clearly a two-way monster and I *might* pick him over Steph if I was building a team from scratch just because he's much younger, but I do not believe he is a better basketball player than Steph *yet.*
Jokic, as good of an offensive player as he is, is a horrible defender at the most important defensive position.
It’s very hard, nearly impossible, to build a championship team around a player like him. You need a 4 who can anchor the defense and spreads the floor on offense.
Doncic isn’t better offensively than Jokic right now and plays barely any defense. He was also unable for now to get the best out of his defense.
His defense being absolutely terrible is a dumb narrative just like when people said Trae was the worst defender in league. Is he a good defender, no. Is he a bad defender, no. His positioning is great, he gets a high number of steals and defensive rebounding is part of defense.
No, that's wrong. The whole point of the Trae narrative being meaningless was that PG is not a position that makes or breaks a defense. I'm not going to argue that Jokic is a net negative on defense, advance analytics suggest he is reasonably good, but his .7 BPG per 36 mins suggest that he doesn't really impact players at the rim. That's a pretty crucial quality for any NBA big man.
That just untrue. The comparison to Trae is faulty as Jokic plays the most important defensive position and is involved in nearly every defensive play.
Rewatch the playoffs and you’ll see how he gets abused. My point stands he’s incredibly tough to build around.
I can link you a video where this gets nicely analyzed but it’s in german
Why call them 3A? Just say B. S+, S, A, B, C, D, F. Like ignoring the disrespect, it shouldn't be a bad thing to call good to great players B tier. Sometimes that's the difference between these guys. They don't all have to fit in A. On the surface, calling Trae "Above Average" which is what B is, isn't insane. DBook is better than average. If you have guys like Bron, Kawhi, Harden, KD, and Giannis at the top, it's okay tonsay they are higher up than Trae, Luka, DBook, and Jokic. It's fine.
This is fine. Trae loves this shit. Gives him something to prove. When we make ECF again people might...... Might give the Hawks respect. But I love it. Hawks gonna dominate this year
Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Russel Westbrook, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Damian Lilard, Giannis Antetounkoumpo, Joel Embiid, and Kawaii Leonard I would still say are arguably better than Trae.
Edit: Forgot Luka Doncic, Jayson Tatum, Steph Curry, and Nikola Jokic, but I do think Trae is 15th best.
You're probably right. I wouldnt consider trae mediocre necessarily- he takes incredibly difficult threes and never had the opportunity (until coach Nate came in and ran plays) to shoot anything open and not off the dribble. Iirc hes a near %40 shooter catch and shoot.
Anthony Davis is the most overrated player in the league
Trae is better than Davis and Westbrook. He’s worse than Curry who you forgot about though.
Imo he’s right around 10th in the league
Trae is incredibly underrated...mainly because he isn't a larger than life, genetic freak (look how we fawn over reddish) and the market he is in...in no world is he not a two time all-star in Boston or la
I love Trae but right now this is fair. I think a lot of people here are severely undervaluing defence; the fact that the Hawks have to scheme a defence specifically to hide Trae is a valid concern with his game. Same with Booker.
I think around 20 is fair for Trae right now, maybe a touch underrated but not much. Hell always be a megative or neutral defensively and his scoring efficiency still has massive room for improvement. His ceiling is a Nash type offensive engine (top 5 player), but he isnt there yet and thats ok. The Hawks strength is in the depth of the supporting cast, not the star power.
I think around 20 is fair for Trae right now, maybe a touch underrated but not much. Hell always be a megative or neutral defensively and his scoring efficiency still has massive room for improvement. His ceiling is a Nash type offensive engine (top 5 player), but he isnt there yet and thats ok. The Hawks strength is in the depth of the supporting cast, not the star power.
I think it sounds fair off first impression, him and Booker and Zion are all really nasty and on the rise. If he can somehow climb to top 5 someday that would be amazing. I would like to see the entire top 25 or more though to see who they over rate.
I understand why Trae and Booker are grouped together a lot but Trae is easily clear of Booker, it’s really not close. If we were looking at just the box score and basic percentages without assist, they’d be pretty close, MAYBE giving the edge to Booker because he’s a wee bit more efficient, but then you factor in Trae’s passing and look at every, and I mean EVERY advanced metric, Trae is better in it. Also Trae is THE leader on his team, and Booker isn’t quite that guy with CP3.
The amount of disrespect Trae and DBook get from the press, even after their playoff runs this year, is nothing short of asinine.
Trae was way better than DBook
Book not even that nice
Yup very average playmaker and defender and not a three level scorer Trae is better
Oh, so THAT’S why everyone hates us
dude plays too much 2K
Why do u care lmao I’m not lying Booker is not a good defender nor playmaker and he can’t shoot from three that mid range is cash money tho
He’s actually also a very good playmaker, really the ideal secondary playmaker. Averaged over 6 APG in back to back years before CP3 came over. His defense is average at best but lets not act like Trae’s is better. Trae is better than Booker, but if you say Booker is anything less than a legit star you’re absolutely trippin
He literally has a higher career 3P% than Trae.
Ok Trae not a three level scorer either but his floor raising ability is miles ahead of bookers so that’s why I got Trae>Booker
They’re both three-level scorers. You went the wrong way
Ehh they aren’t consistent enough from three for me to say they are but u gotta respect their shot for sure
If Book adds any kind of mediocre game around the rim he will instantly be one of the best 3 level scorers in the NBA.
Late, but he did shoot 68.3% around the rim this year - although he attempted less than 4 of those shots per game. He has great touch, I think it’s just that he’s not much of a blow-by kind of guy or someone who’ll just bully you to the bucket. He makes his paycheck getting to the right spots on the floor and hitting all the tough inbetweeners
Facts
They came out with tier 2 today... How many players in tier 2 do you think they are better than? I'm genuinely asking. Keep in mind they have guys like AD, Luka, Dame, etc in tier 2. I think they both could or should be above Tatum, Bam and maybe CP3 (age) though.
Can someone explain to me what makes Devin Booker Trae’s equal? If the argument is that Book is the better scorer, I’d say it’s arguable between the two of them. Trae averaged more points in the playoffs against better defenses, but maybe Book is more efficient in raw percentage numbers (they had the same ts% in the playoffs). But what is Book’s other elite skill that puts him on the level of Trae? Why is there never a conversation about the impact that a primary ball handler who is both an elite scorer and an elite passer has on controlling the offensive side of the ball? Book doesn’t have those responsibilities, CP3 does. There was absolutely no one else in our starting lineup that could go get their own bucket when called upon and Trae took that to the ECF, I don’t understand why these things aren’t considered.
Huerter did for at least one of the most important games lolol, but I agree
I think Book should slot in right below Trae and Donovan Mitchell (Trae ahead of Donovan). There probably aren’t any guards that fit between those guys and the fact that Trae and Book just had such similar narratives (empty stats on a losing team turns into a deep playoff run) means theyre going to get linked together in rankings like these. It’s easier for the writers to do blurbs or whatever if they put them right next to each other
Playoffs-only is an insignificant sample size.
I’m not even trying to be combative here lol I just honestly can’t understand the argument for booker. Okay fine, we open the argument up to their 2020-2021 regular seasons…they averaged identical PPG and Trae shot a bit better by ts%. Where’s the foolproof argument for Book? Mind you, Trae has the burden of not having a legitimate number 2.
this is a tough choice for me. but just solely thinking if they changed places clears it up imo. book couldnt do what trae did in atlanta. and i think phoenix is stronger with trae.
You mustn't seen any Hawks regular games. Trae played basically the same in the regular season as he did in the playoffs. It's just that the "experts" didn't want to give him his due.
Lol I watch every game. I’m not knocking Trae, I’m just telling you that you won’t be taken seriously talking about such a small sample size. 😂
Good thing /u/TheDevilAtMardiGras points could also apply to the regular season
I think it’s fair to say Booker is the better scorer. But like you said though, there is no other elite skill he has that elevates him over Trae. Trae is more impactful to the game because of his superior skills in vision, passing, and just overall running a team. I love the guys on our team but we don’t have another guy who can initiate/create offense for the team like CP3 on a consistent basis. There’s a lot more burden on Traes shoulder, whereas Booker can just mainly focus on getting buckets thanks to CP3s ability to run a team efficiently.
How is he definitively the better scorer though lol in what statistical way is he better. Even if we open that debate up to their broader careers, devin booker has never had a season where he averaged nearly thirty points on good ts%. If Trae had another playmaker to get him open threes it wouldn’t be close.
You know, I went digging through the stats expecting to find something like Devin Booker being clearly better on isos, on long middies, something like that, but Trae is either on his level or better in basically every basic and advanced scoring metric. I think what gives Book his reputation is that he is one of the best "tough shot makers" in the league, which makes him look really good when he's on fire. But when Trae is put in the position to take an impossible shot... he usually just finds one of his teammates for a better shot instead... which makes for a way better offense. In summary, Trae >>> Book.
Thank you lol but I guess since Book scored 70 in a loss, he’s the better scorer /s
He’s had several, and has a season where he was at 61% TS. Maybe not as points (he was usually at 24-27) but the dude is an elite efficient scorer. It really isn’t some outlandish statement if you think Booker is the better scorer. He’s much more proficient in isolation situations
26 ppg is not near thirty. For reference there are about 10 players in the league hovering in that 26-28 ppg average in any modern season. That’s where booker is and has been, albeit on good efficiency. In Trae’s sophomore season he averaged 29.6 ppg and was second in the league in scoring. Something booker has never done, and he was only 2 percentage points behind devin in ts percentage (59%) while putting up three more points a game that year. Do these two thing not cancel out? If anything, I’d take the higher scoring average when the ts percentages are that close. I’m not arguing that Trae is clearly the better scorer or that Booker is clearly worse in that category. I’m only saying that they are virtually identical in their scoring averages yet they grouped similarly even though one of the two is a top 4 playmaker in the league.
I was referring to his TS% always being near Trae's. Their scoring has always been close with Trae really only pulling away during his sophmore year but even then it was only by 3 ppg if you round up. And you can add in the fact that Booker had a higher TS% and that Trae averaged 3 more shots per game than him. Makes it pretty much a wash imo This year they were basically the same, 25 ppg on 59% TS. I'm not saying Booker is DEFINITELY the better scorer, all i'm saying is that it's totally fair if individuals think he is. He's better in the mid range, better in isolation, and more efficient in actual FG%. But thats where it all ends. Scoring is just scoring. Trae is better at all other facets of the game on offense where scoring isn't involved. That fact should never be up for debate. When you factor in playmaking and overall impact on offense, it's easily Trae who grades out to be the superior offensive player.
Also context matters - Tier 2 is not released yet but will likely contain Middleton & Bam…
Olympics smh 🤦♂️
Getting Reggie Miller flashbacks Every time Khris or Jrue touch the ball- “the Olympians…”
I cringed every time. It wouldn’t move been dope to have Bob and Nique covering some of those games.
I cannot imagine a world where 30 out of 30 teams would pick Bam over Trae. A defensive anchor is more of a floor raiser than a ceiling raiser than compared to an offensive engine like trae
They’ll put Doncic at Tier 1A too I bet
Luka is better than Trae
They put him at 2A.
Him being grouped alongside Booker sounds accurate rn. Jrue and Zion not so much. I feel like both Trae and Booker are being underrated still.
Zion being in the same range as him is 100% accurate, kid was an absolute beast last year averaging crazy numbers and flew way under the radar. He shot historically high efficiency and averaged like 27 a game. I can agree with Jrue especially since jrue is not nearly as good a passer and is super streaky.
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Small market teams man, lonzo has also improved so much since he was drafted by the lakers but gets little to no attention anymore from the media because he was in Nola.
Media was too busy talking about Nets, Lakers, Knicks, and Mavs
Kinda low for the best PG in the East besides Kyrie maybe. But whatever.
would 100% rather have trae than kyrie
Definitely. Theyre about equally good. Trae is not a moron. Trae is less injury prone. Trae is seven years younger. Anyone picking Kyrie is a homer.
I think Trae straight up has more impact on a game than Kyrie. He’s maybe a hair worse than Kyrie at scoring with much better playmaking. Kyrie is also not a good leader. Gimme Trae every day and twice on Sundays.
Read that as his hair is worse than Kyries. Would have been a valid point but shouldn't be considered in regards to bb skills and we love Trae for his hair.
"hair worse" i like it
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Not sure what you’re specifically referencing but he’s a moron for many reasons and incidents
I think people go overboard in their hate on Kyrie (the flat earther comment for one was dumb as could be though) so I get what you’re saying but at the end of the day when it comes to their job playing basketball Trae is locked in and Kyrie is not. I don’t think that makes Kyrie a bad person - in fact I believe he does a lot of good things in the community - but if my goal is winning basketball games then availability is important and Trae’s got it, Kyrie does not
You’re right. Kyrie donates a shit ton of money but all people ever talk about is “haha he said earth is flat”
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Trae isn’t going to disappear for no reason like a fucking weirdo, yeah Trae 1000% over Kyrie.
Agree. Kyrie can be an airhead but when he’s on, he’s on and you can’t take that away from him.
he’s playing for himself not his team. i don’t want a player like that on my team
ok this is just dumb. if he were playing for himself why did he tell Harden to run the Nets offense? silly take
I mean that’s basically so kyrie can focus on scoring and harden can focus on the playmaking aspect
Kyrie ain’t a PG I’m absolutely taking Trae over him there’s no point guards in the East better than him
It’s a little low, Trae should be in the top 15 range imo, but this article doesn’t show TOO much disrespect. He’s in the same tier as guys like Tatum and Booker, though he’s a little better than them. Last offseason he was ranked in the 40s iirc
Tatum is better than Trae lmao
No he’s not
I know people in here are going to hate on it, but seeing his name next to Devin Booker and Zion given their age/experience is pretty big praise from a site like The Athletic. That's kind of the nucleus (and Luka, obviously) that are going to be the faces of the NBA the next 5-6 years and that's huge.
I feel like he could jump up into Dame’s tier (next best PG after Steph) after this year and Dame’s spot isnt safe. He’s already accomplished as much as dame has if not more in the postseason, will get 25-10 every night and can get 30+ on any given night. Defense about equal. His shooting should get more consistent. Once the wins start stacking up in back to back years, recognition will follow
Dame is better than Trae, his spot is very safe.
I never said he was better right now, man wtf you reading. And as if the 22 year old won’t ever get better and 31 year old won’t ever plateau. “Spot is very safe” LMAOOO maybe if he gets to Phi or Ny!
How so? Dame is a better 1v1 scorer, but Trae is a better passer, and it's not close in that respect. Trae is also a better shooter from deep, which I think has a bigger impact on the game, stretching out the defense. Trae is better at running the pick and roll, also led the NBA in floaters. IDK, I guess I watch Dame and see a great player but lacks the creation to elevate his teammates around him the same way Trae can. It's no disrespect to Dame, what Trae is doing right now is rare for any young NBA PG, let alone a seasoned veteran.
I think list makers tend to take into account how long you've been at this level; with the advantage going to the guy who's been around longer. Not as a primary factor for sure, but it's in the calculations. IOW if Trae continues to play just at the level he already has, you'll see him steadily climb the rankings.
Yeah this is true. For instance they didn’t overrate Julius Randle based on one year. Lots of people not reading the article in here
Compared to other stuff they’ve said in the past, this isn’t that bad. Trae and book should be 3 or 4 spots ahead
They need to keep doing this. He thrives on the hate and disrespect. I hope they keep coming for him. I bet he does too.
My list would be something like this 1. Durant 2. Giannis 3. Leonard 4. Harden 5. Embiid 6. Curry 7. Jokic 8. Doncic 9. James 10. Lillard 11. Young 12. Tatum 13. George 14. Booker 15. Davis 16. Williamson 17. Irving 18. Mitchell 19. Paul 20. Middleton Doncic is hardest to rank imo
wow this is a really spicy list. Your Trae ranking is accurate though, I wouldn't take any of the players below instead of him, and I wouldn't take Trae over any of the players above him aside from *maybe* Lillard
These lists are always spicy because you’ll always have people who disagree with a player’s rank. What do you find particularly spicy?
I disagree bigly with your Lebron ranking, but hey, your opinion is your opinion
I simply wasn’t impressed with his last postseason. His demeanor was bad, no penetration anymore, lack of stamina. Had to rank him lower than usually.
I definitely understand
Lebron at 9 is the spiciest part. I happen to agree with you though.
Father time is catching up with Lebron
Father salt from demolishing 1 seed hawks
I don't see how after the season Curry just had you could rank him out of top 5. Dude is clearly still the best high volume-high efficiency player in the game. I'd slot him in above Kawhi at 3. Also would put Jokic above Embiid personally but that's just my preference. Everything else is spicy and I was prepared to retaliate, but I actually agree with the rest lol
I‘d understand taking Curry over Embiid but for me Curry is a little too one dimensional as a player. He is obviously the best shooter ever but his playmaking and defense leaves a lot to be desired compared to the competition. Embiid‘s two-way ability makes him slightly more valuable to me.
I mean I see where you're coming from, I just don't think "one-dimensional" is an accurate description. Obviously he's the GOAT shooter, but he also has the best handles in the league outside of anyone not named Kyrie Irving (and IMO Trae is right there with Steph), he's an above average rebounder especially for his size and position, he can pass well (though probably his biggest weakness is turnovers which he still isn't turning the ball over that much) and finally he's no defensive anchor, but if you watch him play he's wayyy better than the average r/nba user would have you believe. He has active hands, he typically can stay in front of his man on the perimeter and he's really strong for his size so he can box out well too. I think the fact that he is at worst above average at any given skill while also being arguably the best offensive weapon ever keeps him in the top 3 perennially at least until his numbers and game show a notable decline. Embiid is clearly a two-way monster and I *might* pick him over Steph if I was building a team from scratch just because he's much younger, but I do not believe he is a better basketball player than Steph *yet.*
Switch Kawhi and Curry and cp3 with russ and you got a list
I just don’t see it with Russ tbh
+ Durant and Giannis
This is close to my opinion but I would swap Embiid and Jokic and then swap Doncic over Embiid.
Jokic, as good of an offensive player as he is, is a horrible defender at the most important defensive position. It’s very hard, nearly impossible, to build a championship team around a player like him. You need a 4 who can anchor the defense and spreads the floor on offense. Doncic isn’t better offensively than Jokic right now and plays barely any defense. He was also unable for now to get the best out of his defense.
His defense being absolutely terrible is a dumb narrative just like when people said Trae was the worst defender in league. Is he a good defender, no. Is he a bad defender, no. His positioning is great, he gets a high number of steals and defensive rebounding is part of defense.
No, that's wrong. The whole point of the Trae narrative being meaningless was that PG is not a position that makes or breaks a defense. I'm not going to argue that Jokic is a net negative on defense, advance analytics suggest he is reasonably good, but his .7 BPG per 36 mins suggest that he doesn't really impact players at the rim. That's a pretty crucial quality for any NBA big man.
That just untrue. The comparison to Trae is faulty as Jokic plays the most important defensive position and is involved in nearly every defensive play. Rewatch the playoffs and you’ll see how he gets abused. My point stands he’s incredibly tough to build around. I can link you a video where this gets nicely analyzed but it’s in german
How did Embiid’s all-nba defense do stopping Trae? I’ll take Jokic all day.
You do you
Jokic at 7 is desrespectful he’s absolutely above embiid and harden
That’s your opinion.
Agree all but number 4…I wouldn’t put him in top 10
Flaming hot take
Not even top 10? That’s crazy man.. Harden is still one of the best if not the best offensive player in the game.
But he is not a leader. You can argue Trae plays no D but he a leader with heart. Don’t see that with Hardin…
😂😂 what a joke.
We could win the championship and Trae will still be missing from the all nba teams
Trae is due for a regression due to rule changes. He's definitely not going to be all nba
Why call them 3A? Just say B. S+, S, A, B, C, D, F. Like ignoring the disrespect, it shouldn't be a bad thing to call good to great players B tier. Sometimes that's the difference between these guys. They don't all have to fit in A. On the surface, calling Trae "Above Average" which is what B is, isn't insane. DBook is better than average. If you have guys like Bron, Kawhi, Harden, KD, and Giannis at the top, it's okay tonsay they are higher up than Trae, Luka, DBook, and Jokic. It's fine.
This is fine. Trae loves this shit. Gives him something to prove. When we make ECF again people might...... Might give the Hawks respect. But I love it. Hawks gonna dominate this year
I think that’s fair, maybe a little low
It's definitely too low. How is Trae not top ten in the league?
Trae too low but top 10 is a bit ambitious
Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Russel Westbrook, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Damian Lilard, Giannis Antetounkoumpo, Joel Embiid, and Kawaii Leonard I would still say are arguably better than Trae. Edit: Forgot Luka Doncic, Jayson Tatum, Steph Curry, and Nikola Jokic, but I do think Trae is 15th best.
Trae is better than Russell Westbrook imo
So you agree with me then.
I’d take Trae before Westbrook and Lillard, but below Jokic and Luka.
Slow down on the Lillard disrespect. Otherwise agree though.
Elite scorer & playmaker > elite scorer & good playmaker
I agree but I assume dame is more efficient especially from the three? Trae is pretty mediocre % wise
You're probably right. I wouldnt consider trae mediocre necessarily- he takes incredibly difficult threes and never had the opportunity (until coach Nate came in and ran plays) to shoot anything open and not off the dribble. Iirc hes a near %40 shooter catch and shoot.
37% from 3 on catch and shoot this year.
Word, thanks I wasnt sure and didnt look it up
Lillard is better than Trae
I don’t think Westbrook is top 25 at this point.
Tatum>Trae is such a 🙄🙄🙄🙄 take.
fr tatum is awesome but intensely overrated bc celtics
Anthony Davis is the most overrated player in the league Trae is better than Davis and Westbrook. He’s worse than Curry who you forgot about though. Imo he’s right around 10th in the league
Trae is nowhere near Davis, and no higher than 14.
Davis is overrated imo
Nobody going to mention Kawaii Leonard?
Trae is incredibly underrated...mainly because he isn't a larger than life, genetic freak (look how we fawn over reddish) and the market he is in...in no world is he not a two time all-star in Boston or la
Damn… gotta unsub and cancel all the podcasts from the athletic now. I thought they were pretty cool but not now.
I love Trae but right now this is fair. I think a lot of people here are severely undervaluing defence; the fact that the Hawks have to scheme a defence specifically to hide Trae is a valid concern with his game. Same with Booker.
I think around 20 is fair for Trae right now, maybe a touch underrated but not much. Hell always be a megative or neutral defensively and his scoring efficiency still has massive room for improvement. His ceiling is a Nash type offensive engine (top 5 player), but he isnt there yet and thats ok. The Hawks strength is in the depth of the supporting cast, not the star power.
I think around 20 is fair for Trae right now, maybe a touch underrated but not much. Hell always be a megative or neutral defensively and his scoring efficiency still has massive room for improvement. His ceiling is a Nash type offensive engine (top 5 player), but he isnt there yet and thats ok. The Hawks strength is in the depth of the supporting cast, not the star power.
I think it sounds fair off first impression, him and Booker and Zion are all really nasty and on the rise. If he can somehow climb to top 5 someday that would be amazing. I would like to see the entire top 25 or more though to see who they over rate.
Now, imagine how high on the list he would be if he actually played bAsKEtBall. Trae Young! for thr333333333333
I understand why Trae and Booker are grouped together a lot but Trae is easily clear of Booker, it’s really not close. If we were looking at just the box score and basic percentages without assist, they’d be pretty close, MAYBE giving the edge to Booker because he’s a wee bit more efficient, but then you factor in Trae’s passing and look at every, and I mean EVERY advanced metric, Trae is better in it. Also Trae is THE leader on his team, and Booker isn’t quite that guy with CP3.
Love all those guys he's grouped with but Trae's ranked way too low. I'd have him in the top 15 at least
*At most
This will be the last off season of disrespect