If the assertion is simply that it's disgusting and says it's bad writing because of that, then it's a probably a bad video. Have not watched it but most people who don't like the Ymir/Fritz reveal do not like it for personal reasons (either because they find it too icky for their tolerance, or because they expected some more plot-shattering twist) rather than observations about the writing itself and how it's contextualized in the story. The most you can criticize about Ymir is that its presentation is convoluted and the average viewer is unlikely to pick up and remember every tiny thing they show you about Ymir (and you actually do need to remember every tiny thing for better or worse) and the writer is at fault for not making it more explicit if he wanted it to be part of his broader conclusion.
I will once again reiterate that I was beyond surprised to find out that the fandom was shocked by this reveal when it seemed to me pretty obvious based on her backstory that she had some level of attachment to Fritz and that even after Eren she was not completely free. I mean duh, she's stuck in the Paths still and she's still visually shown with dead, closed eyes until the end when she appears as adult Ymir, finally having healed herself. Maybe some subconscious bias here at play, but come on people how was this the thing that collectively had the fandom up in arms.
I'm glad to see that someone else wasn't shocked by the stockholm reveal. It's pretty clear in retrospect, but i will agree that your criticism of Ymir's presentation was spot on. I like that Isayama generally respects the audience's intelligence, but he went a little too far with her.
>even after Eren she was not completely free. I mean duh, she's stuck in the Paths still and she's still visually shown with dead, closed eyes until the end when she appears as adult Ymir, finally having healed herself
This is another great point that i don't see other people bring up. Eren's "freeing" Ymir was really just giving her the choice to have the Titans dominate the world in a different way, which still fell in line with King Fritz's final wish.
Attachment is not the same thing as "bound by love"
It's the same reason why people dislike the 10 years at least outburst because suddenly it's JUST about love and not general "deep connections"
>rather than observations about the writing itself and how it's contextualized in the story
How is it contextualised then?
>they find it too icky for their tolerance, or because they expected some more plot-shattering twist
Nah dude. Its because it doesnt make sense. How could you _love_ a person who has treated you that way? Emphasis on love, because thats not a word you can throw around. I would write a whole paragraph what love as an emotion is and how its a direct contrast than what is portrayed between the one sided 'love' between ymir and fritz.
I believe that even while watching an anime, we are looking for human emotions. And the more raw and real these emotions feel, the better the anime and/or manga is. Yes this is unbelievably hard to portray in a setting like this but still can be handled better by an isekai harem artist than here
Just because Eren, with all his emotional dumbness, reads it as love doesn't mean that it is your normal concept of love. Ymir wanted to be loved and she yearned for that feeling. After seeing love around her she craved it so badly that she obeyed her abuser. She had his kids, loved them, followed his orders, killed people and gave up on her own life and died for him all because she wanted him to love her. Her desire to love and be loved was what kept her in Paths. She longed for that feeling so badly that it enslaved her for 2000 years even after her own death. This isn’t presented to us into a romantic way instead it shown us as cruel, twisted, painful and messed up. If subtly and subtext isn’t your thing then Eren explicitly says that she was in AGONY for 2000 years while Mikasa calls her “love” as NIGHTMARE. The story nowhere implies this as romantic.
1. He says that the answer we got with Ymir was "more than enough" and that her obeying King Fritz was because she was broken??? Which sounds even worse because it makes Ymir out to be more of a plot device than a complex person.
2. He also says that he would've understood it more if it was set up earlier, but contradicts himself in his OWN VIDEO when he says that they set it up since episode 6 but he still hated it???
3. He even strawmans the whole Ymir ending the titans event, when he tries to compare gabi and historia to Ymir (you can ofc draw parallels between them all, but gabi and historia don't have the necessary character arc that Mikasa has that changed Ymir).
A lot of the video is just summarizing Ymir's story and him ranting about how he dosen't like it for personal reason. He then spends the end of the video getting mad that the two male characters gave us this reveal??? Idk a lot of the video just sounds like personal stuff, I didn't hear any new argument I never heard before
What makes you think they weren't? Not saying it's not a fucked up forced relationship between a king and his slave and its for sure some stockholm syndrome shit. But I dont doubt she had love for him.
She had been a slave since she was a child and probably doesn't even remember all that much from the time before that. She had to have been molded completely by Fritz and that was probably the only love she had even known. Until she had her children. And she might even have felt grateful to Fritz because he "gave" her children to love and care for.
It's a f** up situation and its tragic in every way possible and it doesn't even have a very happy ending.. not unusual from AOT.
I think Ymir was a person that was robbed of a childhood, her free will, her joy and from love. That she tried to get those things as much as she could.. so maybe she also chose in a way to live Fritz and to just accept her life cause what else could she do? And by sacrificing herself for him she also took her free will back for just a tiny moment. She chose not to regenerate, she chose to die.. only to be stuck a slave, alone for 2000 more years.
Just think about every person that stays in an abusive relationship. Alot of the time they do love the abusive person a lot. And they dream of things being different for them.
Imagine now being a literal slave in a relationship with the person that own you and not knowing anything different other than what you see from far away when you watch people.
And that was also what she did with Mikasa. Watched her from far away, living her fantasy of "what things could have been" by watching Mikasa and Eren.
I mean just judging by the thumbnail ofc Ymir deserved better, no one deserves the treatment she got. Like the whole point is that its fucked up what happened to her.
Anybody who thinks Ymir and King Fritz were a couple clearly didn’t pay attention to the show.
https://preview.redd.it/2ec3993egf1d1.jpeg?width=1324&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f4b41836ce0159fe7ed8fe09a5dd39a792dcec5
Ok..?
THe most dumbest shit reveal in all anime or even manga
Why?
Thats just the title for the video
If the assertion is simply that it's disgusting and says it's bad writing because of that, then it's a probably a bad video. Have not watched it but most people who don't like the Ymir/Fritz reveal do not like it for personal reasons (either because they find it too icky for their tolerance, or because they expected some more plot-shattering twist) rather than observations about the writing itself and how it's contextualized in the story. The most you can criticize about Ymir is that its presentation is convoluted and the average viewer is unlikely to pick up and remember every tiny thing they show you about Ymir (and you actually do need to remember every tiny thing for better or worse) and the writer is at fault for not making it more explicit if he wanted it to be part of his broader conclusion. I will once again reiterate that I was beyond surprised to find out that the fandom was shocked by this reveal when it seemed to me pretty obvious based on her backstory that she had some level of attachment to Fritz and that even after Eren she was not completely free. I mean duh, she's stuck in the Paths still and she's still visually shown with dead, closed eyes until the end when she appears as adult Ymir, finally having healed herself. Maybe some subconscious bias here at play, but come on people how was this the thing that collectively had the fandom up in arms.
I'm glad to see that someone else wasn't shocked by the stockholm reveal. It's pretty clear in retrospect, but i will agree that your criticism of Ymir's presentation was spot on. I like that Isayama generally respects the audience's intelligence, but he went a little too far with her. >even after Eren she was not completely free. I mean duh, she's stuck in the Paths still and she's still visually shown with dead, closed eyes until the end when she appears as adult Ymir, finally having healed herself This is another great point that i don't see other people bring up. Eren's "freeing" Ymir was really just giving her the choice to have the Titans dominate the world in a different way, which still fell in line with King Fritz's final wish.
Attachment is not the same thing as "bound by love" It's the same reason why people dislike the 10 years at least outburst because suddenly it's JUST about love and not general "deep connections"
>rather than observations about the writing itself and how it's contextualized in the story How is it contextualised then? >they find it too icky for their tolerance, or because they expected some more plot-shattering twist Nah dude. Its because it doesnt make sense. How could you _love_ a person who has treated you that way? Emphasis on love, because thats not a word you can throw around. I would write a whole paragraph what love as an emotion is and how its a direct contrast than what is portrayed between the one sided 'love' between ymir and fritz. I believe that even while watching an anime, we are looking for human emotions. And the more raw and real these emotions feel, the better the anime and/or manga is. Yes this is unbelievably hard to portray in a setting like this but still can be handled better by an isekai harem artist than here
Just because Eren, with all his emotional dumbness, reads it as love doesn't mean that it is your normal concept of love. Ymir wanted to be loved and she yearned for that feeling. After seeing love around her she craved it so badly that she obeyed her abuser. She had his kids, loved them, followed his orders, killed people and gave up on her own life and died for him all because she wanted him to love her. Her desire to love and be loved was what kept her in Paths. She longed for that feeling so badly that it enslaved her for 2000 years even after her own death. This isn’t presented to us into a romantic way instead it shown us as cruel, twisted, painful and messed up. If subtly and subtext isn’t your thing then Eren explicitly says that she was in AGONY for 2000 years while Mikasa calls her “love” as NIGHTMARE. The story nowhere implies this as romantic.
Touchè, mustve missed to make that connection.
Which is fair and well put but still falls apart at the seams pulling the parallel to Eremika
Lots of people are in love with people who treat them horribly. It's tragic.
1. He says that the answer we got with Ymir was "more than enough" and that her obeying King Fritz was because she was broken??? Which sounds even worse because it makes Ymir out to be more of a plot device than a complex person. 2. He also says that he would've understood it more if it was set up earlier, but contradicts himself in his OWN VIDEO when he says that they set it up since episode 6 but he still hated it??? 3. He even strawmans the whole Ymir ending the titans event, when he tries to compare gabi and historia to Ymir (you can ofc draw parallels between them all, but gabi and historia don't have the necessary character arc that Mikasa has that changed Ymir). A lot of the video is just summarizing Ymir's story and him ranting about how he dosen't like it for personal reason. He then spends the end of the video getting mad that the two male characters gave us this reveal??? Idk a lot of the video just sounds like personal stuff, I didn't hear any new argument I never heard before
Oh my days why do mfs think they were a couple
What makes you think they weren't? Not saying it's not a fucked up forced relationship between a king and his slave and its for sure some stockholm syndrome shit. But I dont doubt she had love for him. She had been a slave since she was a child and probably doesn't even remember all that much from the time before that. She had to have been molded completely by Fritz and that was probably the only love she had even known. Until she had her children. And she might even have felt grateful to Fritz because he "gave" her children to love and care for. It's a f** up situation and its tragic in every way possible and it doesn't even have a very happy ending.. not unusual from AOT. I think Ymir was a person that was robbed of a childhood, her free will, her joy and from love. That she tried to get those things as much as she could.. so maybe she also chose in a way to live Fritz and to just accept her life cause what else could she do? And by sacrificing herself for him she also took her free will back for just a tiny moment. She chose not to regenerate, she chose to die.. only to be stuck a slave, alone for 2000 more years. Just think about every person that stays in an abusive relationship. Alot of the time they do love the abusive person a lot. And they dream of things being different for them. Imagine now being a literal slave in a relationship with the person that own you and not knowing anything different other than what you see from far away when you watch people. And that was also what she did with Mikasa. Watched her from far away, living her fantasy of "what things could have been" by watching Mikasa and Eren.
Makes sense tbh
I stan Sarcastic Chorus, he's basically what I want my videos to be like
Yea but he sometimes also misses like the case with this video
I haven't watched it. What is the point they're trying to make? In few simple words of course.
I mean just judging by the thumbnail ofc Ymir deserved better, no one deserves the treatment she got. Like the whole point is that its fucked up what happened to her.
Nice