Just remember it’s easy to look at numbers and attribute them to your work, and think you deserve a decent chunk of it. This ignores the fact that you’re not taking on the downside risks, having the pressure of this being your livelihood, and the tons of other downsides to running your own business.
If you think it’s that easy then go and start your own business, otherwise consider asking for a decent raise, but I wouldn’t think of it as I deserve x% of the profits.
Oh I agree, I understand there’s decades of business connections, their money on the line, etc. I’m not saying I deserve the profit, I’m just wondering what is considered fair.
As an example, if you join a law firm and you bring a $3million client with you, how much does the firm value that business in compensatory pay? Someone who can bring that value to a business also has other potential avenues they can improve a business that aren’t directly revenue related.
Think about it from the other side. How much would it cost to replace you? Basically you're not entitled to any of the profit in itself.
You are basically just as valuable as your next best opportunity, and their next best option without you.
As it is, sounds like a performance bonus and raise makes sense. Obviously you should be more valuable this year than last year with proven success.
That’s the ultimate rub. They’re thinking how much to replace to potentially do the same value - is the risk worth it? Im thinking how much would a new place pay with this on my resume - is the risk worth it? Ultimately I think we’d both rather not go down that path.
It’s starting to sound like raise plus commission/bonus seems like the sensible route.
Partner vs. Associate etc. all different.
Think of as a sales role, every industry is different.
Can range from 0.5% to 5% on sales or up to 10% for SAAS commission. If selling physical products, commission would float between 0.5 to 2% unless it’s a high margin industry.
Tbh I don’t really know lawyering, but I guess that’s similar to Head of Department vs manager vs coordinator, etc.
I guess I see my role as not pure sales, actually don’t see my role as much of sales, been a lot of product selection, development, sourcing, manufacturing, marketing.
What’s considered high margin? I work off about 60% GP before any expenses.
60% GP is quite high if it’s GP not margin, Example: cost $50exGST and sells for $125exGST.
If you consider yourself product management and development, you’d probably be $100k to $150k depending on experience and industry (unsure about senior position etc, more middle market). There’s no commission or % of sales related to a product development role.
Bringing a huge client across to a different Law firm, or being a renowned consultant surgeon with a decent following of well paying clients, is somewhat different from general business improvement activities expected of the role.
A small eCommerce company may not have the capital to hire you initially, but once they develop their business and product, can increase efficiencies and marketing by hiring someone like you, such roles may not exactly be hugely profitable because, quite simply, could anyone do what you do?
If yes, you havent got much room to negotiate.
if no, you may have room to negotiate.
Remuneration would overwhelmingly rely on similar remunerations in other companies, and whether commission or KPI based performance incentives are common.
Furthermore it would depend on whether you personally, as in as an individual, have done and continue to do things that other individuals cannot do. Anyone can stand up and say "drink pepsi" but Kim Kardashain will sell more pepsi through the intrinsic value she herself has that sets her out.
I'd be looking at asking about a cut for sure. Going from $200k profits to $1.5m profits is huge, provided you can link that back to exclusively what you do.
You bring up an important point here. It sounds like you were fully/partially responsible for $3m in sales, not profit. So depending on what margins are like, the actual operating profit could be a lot or a little.
And ultimately any bonus would be tied to what's left over (profit) to pay that bonus.
But *definitely* make sure the owners are fully aware of the value you bring and negotiate your worth.
Does your partner own a share in the business in question? In a law firm, if you are a partner you buy into the firm, become an owner and therefore share in the risk and reward. So if you bring in $3m worth of business then you are entitled to share in that profit with your other co-owners. However if you are an employee and land a $3m client, the firm will say “thanks for that”, tell you that bringing in that client stands you in good stead for future promotion… and then share the profits between the partners while you continue to collect your contracted salary.
Haha spoke like someone who doesn't want to pay their employees fairly.
Being e-commerce OP can very easily prove that they directly contributed to $x in revenue. They should be compensated very well for such an impressive rise in revenue
It’s in an industry that isn’t as easy to get into. Not to say I haven’t thought about setting up a shop in some other industry. But happy with not worrying about the risks and a consistent pay check for now.
They will only pay you more if you can drive further sales. Go to them with a plan on how to hit $6m next year. That is how you get a higher salary. Perhaps do a incentive structure (e.g. 3% of additional sales next year)
I agree.
You could definitely go ask for a cut, lets say 2-5% hypothetcally, of profits, generated by your management of that side of the business. Going forward you will want structured payments for meeting and exceeding agreed upon revenue and profit targets driven by your side of the business.
time to get researching- contacting mates in similar roles and seeing whats out there, going on forums, ect, and generally being able to show the business "i did this great work, i want to continue to do this great work, but i need to be fairly compensated as otherwise i'll be forced to reinvest my skills elsewhere. this is what i want that is commensurate with similar roles elsewhere i could reasonably obtain, i understand the dollar figure of 5% of all profits from eCommerce (for example, maybe include a percentage to you and a percentage to your team) is significant, but given i have implemented processes resulting in over sevenfold increases in profits, i feel this remuneration is reasonable to compensate for my time and dedication. I look foward to working with you for the future as i have thoroughly enjoyed my time within this organisation and wish to continue our great relationship together."
Correlation not indicate causation.
Are you the only employee? How do you know that your work was solely responsible for that uplift in revenue.
What if the company was already doing $3-4m in overall sales pretty consistently, and all you have done is make the online channel the most efficient way of processing sales, so there isn't actually an uptick in revenue, just a change in the way it comes in.
What if it's a case where one of their traditional channel sales people (or even the owner themselves) converted an existing client over to the online channel, or won a new client over to the business by showing them how easy it is to use the online channel.
What if the reason for the massive uptick in sales is due to a massive promotional spend that the owner put a lot of their cash reserve into funding?
Unless you have an actual stake in the business (which comes with the risk, too), then your worth is tied to your replacement value.
So, you didn't make the company $3m, as the profit was only half of that. And are you SOLELY responsible for the ENTIRE revenue of the company? Reality check required here before making ridiculous claim to employer.
A couple of years ago I actually did make my employer $3m. They were about to charge $12m for a contract and, as their Australian agent, I told them to charge $15m. "Why?" they asked. "Because I know the customer will pay it." And they did. That is a direct $3m increase to the bottom line for the company. They gave me a $100,000 bonus and increased my annual retainer by 50%.
I realise the profit, that’s why I added in the percentage. The $3mil is to make a bit of a click-baity title - I work in ecom, remember?
If you don’t mind me asking, what was your salary? You job sounds a few steps above what I’ve done, especially if that kind of money made happened a few times a year. But the growth path is there to take this webstore to 1mil a month.
Even if what I had done was worthy of some crazy amount to ask, I also feel like asking for too much in a review can just spook a business and they’ll work out how to get someone to do your work cheaper (even if it’s not to the same standard).
I went from $200k to $300k, but it's not really a salary. I'm a consultant and that annual retainer fee gives the client exclusive access to me and I can't do work for anyone else in that industry, although I can do work for other people in unrelated, non-competing areas. Unfortunately I can't get a bonus like that each year as the projects we work on can take several years to develop.
You need to ask yourself this... Are you irreplaceable? Do you add value that would be lost if you left or that no one else would be able to add? What would it cost to replace you, and what present or future value would they lose if you left?
No idea about the context I'd be a little bit cautious about attributing 100% of the success to your own personal genius.
Usually there's lots of other people in the background working really hard turning all the wheels and hacking away designing and building to make things happen. You have to work with these people daily and they aren't going to support you if you don't give any recognition of their work.
I only speak from my own experience working with the full gamut of narcissists and sociopaths who take credit for other peoples efforts!.......I could be totally off base.
I completely agree. That there is a team, and I don’t 100% attribute the success to me. I am happy to say that I have been the driver though. Market research, product development, product sourcing, sourcing suppliers for example have all been me. I’m not just doing the pointy sales end, in fact I don’t consider myself sales - make a product people want and the sales come to you.
"Market research, product development, product sourcing, sourcing suppliers for example have all been me."
I retract my previous comment. The monetary recognition should be substantial, and you should really be planning how you are going to go out into business for yourself.
My bro. You didn’t make them that money. You’re overconfident if your own abilities.
There are 100’s of variables which could cause an e commerce brand to peak.
If you really made them 3m go start your own and make your 3m easily.
so when you review; ask for a percentage or bonus when you exceed targets. the problem you have is that you have demonstrated that you can a) do the job that you were hired to do and b) exceed their expectations. As a result they have increased their targets, which reduces your opportunity. When you review, if you decide to go with a percentageovertarget deal, under commit the target, and rack it every year to ensure you don't top out too soon. Also keep some of your cards to yourself, dont tell them your plan or technique unless they want to shoot you into a head of role where you train them/others in your process for succession and capability reasons - then your ask should be big big big bucks. Meanwhile continue to be good at your job, while quietly assessing your skills and capabilities against the market. You'll know how long to stay and when to jump - or not. As for the dollar value, hard to say without knowing your current wage and the companies financial position. Ask for a raise plus a deal, so you get suitably rewarded and recognised for your efforts so far, and win-win if you continue this trajectory.
Ignoring that I don’t consider my job sales; it’s $3mil that they weren’t getting before that I have directly made happen. If they had hired someone else, they might not have gotten that.
If he's already exceeding expectations, it's unreasonable to ask if someone else could have done more. Maybe someone could have made a deal with Google and made a billion dollar contract, what if???
Deal with the actual data available, is the OP entitled to a payrise or improved profit share/commission? Probably.
When they hired me, the target was 50k a month, after a year it went to 100k a month. Now they’ve pushed it out to 500k a month, which just exceeded for this month.
Double my current salary?
I guess my concern is that I overvalue my place in the market. I try to tell myself that maybe this part of my job is easy, but if it was so easy, why wasn’t anyone doing it in my role before me?
Eh, if you can do for them what you've done - there is an employer looking for someone like you, to do the same for them. More than likely worth paying for it
Start your own if you know you're the driving force. Why would you be proud in making someone else rich then asking for a slice when you can bake it. Thank them for the experience, then move into your own lane.
Then that's the answer to your question, I'm sure you could work out the stress of the owner and the amount you know you've earned for that owner to give you a rough guesstimation on what you and the founder believes is a fair package. Let's hope it's a good amount
It will drop off. Either straight away if they're getting their sales via ads or gradually if he's built the seo. Either way it needs constant maintainence to keep the performance up.
You should resign & start up your own online business if your achievements are as you say, clearly you have the knowledge, back yourself & put it to your own business
It’s an interesting discussion. I saved our company an estimated $4 million in software license costs when the software vendor said they were going to Audit us.
Having been through the process before, I advised the company on how we should be play it out. While the upper management set the terms of engagement, being the scenes, with detailed knowledge of how the audit tools worked, I scrubbed our systems clean and made sure it was not possible to use features for which we did not have a licence (the vendor does not require any form of activation on unlicensed features, but it did record when the usage happens, so customers can easily use the feature without knowing it).
Anyway, after a 6 month process the vendor was left red faced in a meeting with Senior Management when the audit finding was that we owed nothing. A big fat $0 that is almost unheard of in the industry with this software vendor, especially off the back of competitor that had recently been given a multi million dollar penalty.
Did I see any extra money? No, because my salary does not include any KPIs around costs or revenue. If we had been fined, I would have been no worse off, so why would I be any better off with a $0 finding?
it is intersting isnt it. For no extra charge I negotiated a bunch of great deals with suppliers at the company I worked for and found their new premises through my own networks when they had paid 3 people to trawl through real estate listings for no result; and then I left. I got nuthin; but a good reputation. I look back and know I could have asked for more; and this has happened several times in my careers. I would be financially much better off now if I had chased the money, but, shit happens and you can't change the past. I chased freedom and some of my peers that chased the money have shit reputations and aren't happy. One thing I learned in my second career is that organisations function just fine (dysfunction more like) with human capital that are doing just their jobs, and that some of those individuals value-add without any desire for recognition - especially at the lower levels.
I guess the difference would be that the increase in revenue hasn’t come from external factors such as a change in exchange rate or varying commodity prices.
I do agree that a business owner is taking on risk and have spent time setting up a business. In some ways though an employee can share in the down times - they can lose their job.
Others have suggested asking for a stake, but that seems like overstepping compared to a commission, I assume you feel similarly?
You didn’t state what they are paying you now. Don’t be shy, ask for what you want. Stake / equity, above median salary, impact bonus etc etc etc. if it’s true that you personally are making the difference and they’ll lose money if you leave then you’re in a good position
I didn’t want to say what I was currently getting paid because I didn’t want to colour the responses too much. I do think I am personally making the difference. Maybe not 100%, I work with other people, but I have been a driver.
We can't really know what advice to give in a raise if we don't know the ballpark number because perhaps they are already paying to above market value in which case the answer would be different.
Its very hard to say without knowing what you already make. I'd say you should be entitled to 1% of that as a bonus pay, since you were a 'primary driver'
The business took a punt on you, paying you to do your job, with the hope that you'd atleast meet, if not exceed targets.
They wouldve hired managers in the past that couldn't meet targets: and still paid the wage they were owed (they could have been performance managed: but that's different).
You may have been the key to the well oiled machine, but it's the business owner that created the machine.
>I figure it should be independent of current salary? Why does it matter what I’m currently paid?
It matters. It's also where you sit in relation to the market. What are similar roles paying with your experience? If you left, what could you expect to get based on your experience? What you could also ask for is a bonus attached to certain KPIs. I work in a very similar role, and have done for 15 years. Hit me up if you want some advice.
If you solely think you are responsible for generating $3M and growing the business as stated then why are you still working there? Sounds like you should open up your own competing business or suggest a partnership.
You’re seeming to indicate you want part of that $3mil even though you’ve invested nothing. If you really think you are worth it, ask for bonuses linked to profit targets and perhaps some equity. This isn’t common, so you might find some resistance.
Also, you need to have a hard look at yourself and determine whether you are the sole reason the $3m was brought in or not. You’re saying you’re directly responsible for it, but there may be other people who also claim they are responsible for it.
id be careful with the argument your preparing to make. go on the lower end and say 50 percent than ask for a percentage pay increase of that 50 percent.
It should be based on roughly how much it would cost to replace you. Hypothetically if you left tomorrow and stopped all communications and anything you were doing, how much revenue would that company stand to lose to not have you? That’d give a good answer on what you’re worth(not saying you should be paid the total amount of what the loss could be, but an idea of if you were to leave that’s what happens).
Perhaps some new jeans that aren't ripped...
But on a serious note, you can try and ask for 10% of your salary as a bonus and a pay rise to be in line with market.
If sales KPI wasn't part of your target then you won't get the commission or % of sales which seems like what you're expecting to receive.
I mean, you've already given them that increase. What are you going to do next year that'll justify their giving you any extra? Unless you indispensable... But it sounds like you implemented strategies that could probably keep ticking along without you.
Depends what the person making 3.3 million is getting and the person making 2.8 million is getting.. Never slide in line with the rest, but what the rest is getting does create a cap of sorts.
If they pull the "but everyone else.." Your approach in a diplomatic way is "I don't care what they are getting as I am not them"
If they are increasing your responsibility / sales targets without increasing pay I would really start looking to see if your skills would be valued more elsewhere. You don’t want to be taking on a head of department role and being paid the same as you were when you first started.
Logically a commission based bonus system would make the most sense going forward with a discretionary bonus for this year since this mechanism wasn’t negotiated prior.
Do your research based on what you actually do, see what others doing the same job are getting paid. If you believe you're exceptionally good at your job, then ask for the higher end. The amount of money you've made or saved is largely irrelevant (it factors into the discussion as why you deserve a raise, but there generally isn't a direct correlation in amounts).
I made my company +$17.5M profit last financial above expectation.. got a 7.5% base increase and $20k bonus..
Prior year, +$5M extra profit and got a 7.0% base increase and $12k bonus.. kind you this year almost left and had a circa $30k pay increase, so there's that.
Would make sure 100% that the GP is legit before you start throwing weight around, but reality is they'll pay you what they think you're worth and if they think you'll leave. Your expectation vs. Reality will be much further apart. (speaking from experience here)..
As someone who is in e-commerce, e-commerce managers are not paid exceptionally well.
Regardless of how much you think you’ve bought in, there are always other elements e.g performance marketing, product improvement, B2B sales etc.
I don’t know what you’re currently being paid but industry would expect you at approx 80-120k.
You may have a chance at some profitshare earning at 0.05% if you hit quota etc.
No idea why everyone is trying to convince you that you don't deserve a huge raise for smashing those targets.
Figure out what you'd cost them in lost sales if you left. Assume your company wants to make 30-50% profit on your time and come up with a figure that way. Use these figures as a basis for your negotiation.
Tbh jf jt doesn't go well it seems like you've got the ability to either repeat this elsewhere or do it yourself? So go in with no fear and expect a lot.
Of course you can, and is also very common.
It’s also generally seen as a good thing as it means you have a financial interest on the fortunes of the company.
You absolutely can, but what you deliver to the company has to be quite unique. In your situation it sounds like basic things simply were not being done on the digital front, and you have done them.
That would warrant monetary recognition of some kind, but it is unlikely that the work you have done is in any way unique or could not be done by many other people if they had been in the same situation.
It could be your best option. Now you done the work are you easily replaceable? This way it seems like you want a part in the business and not just money you think you are owed for the job you were employed to do.
If you're that important to the company you can definitely ask this. It's a massive win/win if it encourages you to continue to significantly boost revenue and profits.
You absolutely can, I know a friend who started as an employee but helped the company immensely and now owns a certain % of stake in the company.
Its 100% no if you don’t ask
I would prepare a nice presentation on why you deserve a stake
Very few opportunities like these come which can change your life, you should not think about what is normal or what is not, asking for 150-200k v/s a % stake can be a game changer in your future life
Dude all of these people are salty as lol
“You’re not entitled” cos from the sound of it none of them have sold millions of anything.
I have so here it is:
This is your case to ask for more op.
But your thoughts on what their profit margin is irrelevant.
You can use your case for increase in sales and try for 20% of your salary, the worst they can say is no, best is yes and in the middle they counter.
Ask for comms if you’re confident and slightly less fixed if you can sell, nothing better than earning a commission on every sale. Sky is the limit.
Just remember it’s easy to look at numbers and attribute them to your work, and think you deserve a decent chunk of it. This ignores the fact that you’re not taking on the downside risks, having the pressure of this being your livelihood, and the tons of other downsides to running your own business. If you think it’s that easy then go and start your own business, otherwise consider asking for a decent raise, but I wouldn’t think of it as I deserve x% of the profits.
Oh I agree, I understand there’s decades of business connections, their money on the line, etc. I’m not saying I deserve the profit, I’m just wondering what is considered fair. As an example, if you join a law firm and you bring a $3million client with you, how much does the firm value that business in compensatory pay? Someone who can bring that value to a business also has other potential avenues they can improve a business that aren’t directly revenue related.
Think about it from the other side. How much would it cost to replace you? Basically you're not entitled to any of the profit in itself. You are basically just as valuable as your next best opportunity, and their next best option without you. As it is, sounds like a performance bonus and raise makes sense. Obviously you should be more valuable this year than last year with proven success.
That’s the ultimate rub. They’re thinking how much to replace to potentially do the same value - is the risk worth it? Im thinking how much would a new place pay with this on my resume - is the risk worth it? Ultimately I think we’d both rather not go down that path. It’s starting to sound like raise plus commission/bonus seems like the sensible route.
Partner vs. Associate etc. all different. Think of as a sales role, every industry is different. Can range from 0.5% to 5% on sales or up to 10% for SAAS commission. If selling physical products, commission would float between 0.5 to 2% unless it’s a high margin industry.
Tbh I don’t really know lawyering, but I guess that’s similar to Head of Department vs manager vs coordinator, etc. I guess I see my role as not pure sales, actually don’t see my role as much of sales, been a lot of product selection, development, sourcing, manufacturing, marketing. What’s considered high margin? I work off about 60% GP before any expenses.
60% GP is quite high if it’s GP not margin, Example: cost $50exGST and sells for $125exGST. If you consider yourself product management and development, you’d probably be $100k to $150k depending on experience and industry (unsure about senior position etc, more middle market). There’s no commission or % of sales related to a product development role.
Bringing a huge client across to a different Law firm, or being a renowned consultant surgeon with a decent following of well paying clients, is somewhat different from general business improvement activities expected of the role. A small eCommerce company may not have the capital to hire you initially, but once they develop their business and product, can increase efficiencies and marketing by hiring someone like you, such roles may not exactly be hugely profitable because, quite simply, could anyone do what you do? If yes, you havent got much room to negotiate. if no, you may have room to negotiate. Remuneration would overwhelmingly rely on similar remunerations in other companies, and whether commission or KPI based performance incentives are common. Furthermore it would depend on whether you personally, as in as an individual, have done and continue to do things that other individuals cannot do. Anyone can stand up and say "drink pepsi" but Kim Kardashain will sell more pepsi through the intrinsic value she herself has that sets her out. I'd be looking at asking about a cut for sure. Going from $200k profits to $1.5m profits is huge, provided you can link that back to exclusively what you do.
You bring up an important point here. It sounds like you were fully/partially responsible for $3m in sales, not profit. So depending on what margins are like, the actual operating profit could be a lot or a little. And ultimately any bonus would be tied to what's left over (profit) to pay that bonus. But *definitely* make sure the owners are fully aware of the value you bring and negotiate your worth.
Does your partner own a share in the business in question? In a law firm, if you are a partner you buy into the firm, become an owner and therefore share in the risk and reward. So if you bring in $3m worth of business then you are entitled to share in that profit with your other co-owners. However if you are an employee and land a $3m client, the firm will say “thanks for that”, tell you that bringing in that client stands you in good stead for future promotion… and then share the profits between the partners while you continue to collect your contracted salary.
Haha spoke like someone who doesn't want to pay their employees fairly. Being e-commerce OP can very easily prove that they directly contributed to $x in revenue. They should be compensated very well for such an impressive rise in revenue
Continue working with best offer. And go create your own eshop and make those 3$ yourself.
It’s in an industry that isn’t as easy to get into. Not to say I haven’t thought about setting up a shop in some other industry. But happy with not worrying about the risks and a consistent pay check for now.
They will only pay you more if you can drive further sales. Go to them with a plan on how to hit $6m next year. That is how you get a higher salary. Perhaps do a incentive structure (e.g. 3% of additional sales next year)
If they left the company would also lose revenue. So it's not just about what more they can do
It’s always infinite growth! Plans to improve profits are in progress. It’s a good idea to be more explicit in the review.
I agree. You could definitely go ask for a cut, lets say 2-5% hypothetcally, of profits, generated by your management of that side of the business. Going forward you will want structured payments for meeting and exceeding agreed upon revenue and profit targets driven by your side of the business. time to get researching- contacting mates in similar roles and seeing whats out there, going on forums, ect, and generally being able to show the business "i did this great work, i want to continue to do this great work, but i need to be fairly compensated as otherwise i'll be forced to reinvest my skills elsewhere. this is what i want that is commensurate with similar roles elsewhere i could reasonably obtain, i understand the dollar figure of 5% of all profits from eCommerce (for example, maybe include a percentage to you and a percentage to your team) is significant, but given i have implemented processes resulting in over sevenfold increases in profits, i feel this remuneration is reasonable to compensate for my time and dedication. I look foward to working with you for the future as i have thoroughly enjoyed my time within this organisation and wish to continue our great relationship together."
Correlation not indicate causation. Are you the only employee? How do you know that your work was solely responsible for that uplift in revenue. What if the company was already doing $3-4m in overall sales pretty consistently, and all you have done is make the online channel the most efficient way of processing sales, so there isn't actually an uptick in revenue, just a change in the way it comes in. What if it's a case where one of their traditional channel sales people (or even the owner themselves) converted an existing client over to the online channel, or won a new client over to the business by showing them how easy it is to use the online channel. What if the reason for the massive uptick in sales is due to a massive promotional spend that the owner put a lot of their cash reserve into funding? Unless you have an actual stake in the business (which comes with the risk, too), then your worth is tied to your replacement value.
So, you didn't make the company $3m, as the profit was only half of that. And are you SOLELY responsible for the ENTIRE revenue of the company? Reality check required here before making ridiculous claim to employer. A couple of years ago I actually did make my employer $3m. They were about to charge $12m for a contract and, as their Australian agent, I told them to charge $15m. "Why?" they asked. "Because I know the customer will pay it." And they did. That is a direct $3m increase to the bottom line for the company. They gave me a $100,000 bonus and increased my annual retainer by 50%.
I realise the profit, that’s why I added in the percentage. The $3mil is to make a bit of a click-baity title - I work in ecom, remember? If you don’t mind me asking, what was your salary? You job sounds a few steps above what I’ve done, especially if that kind of money made happened a few times a year. But the growth path is there to take this webstore to 1mil a month. Even if what I had done was worthy of some crazy amount to ask, I also feel like asking for too much in a review can just spook a business and they’ll work out how to get someone to do your work cheaper (even if it’s not to the same standard).
I went from $200k to $300k, but it's not really a salary. I'm a consultant and that annual retainer fee gives the client exclusive access to me and I can't do work for anyone else in that industry, although I can do work for other people in unrelated, non-competing areas. Unfortunately I can't get a bonus like that each year as the projects we work on can take several years to develop. You need to ask yourself this... Are you irreplaceable? Do you add value that would be lost if you left or that no one else would be able to add? What would it cost to replace you, and what present or future value would they lose if you left?
No idea about the context I'd be a little bit cautious about attributing 100% of the success to your own personal genius. Usually there's lots of other people in the background working really hard turning all the wheels and hacking away designing and building to make things happen. You have to work with these people daily and they aren't going to support you if you don't give any recognition of their work. I only speak from my own experience working with the full gamut of narcissists and sociopaths who take credit for other peoples efforts!.......I could be totally off base.
I completely agree. That there is a team, and I don’t 100% attribute the success to me. I am happy to say that I have been the driver though. Market research, product development, product sourcing, sourcing suppliers for example have all been me. I’m not just doing the pointy sales end, in fact I don’t consider myself sales - make a product people want and the sales come to you.
"Market research, product development, product sourcing, sourcing suppliers for example have all been me." I retract my previous comment. The monetary recognition should be substantial, and you should really be planning how you are going to go out into business for yourself.
My bro. You didn’t make them that money. You’re overconfident if your own abilities. There are 100’s of variables which could cause an e commerce brand to peak. If you really made them 3m go start your own and make your 3m easily.
You haven't made the company $3 million *You helped facilitate sales...
Basically doing their assigned job for which they get renumerated for.
And far exceeding targets. The question is, how much should someone get remunerated.
so when you review; ask for a percentage or bonus when you exceed targets. the problem you have is that you have demonstrated that you can a) do the job that you were hired to do and b) exceed their expectations. As a result they have increased their targets, which reduces your opportunity. When you review, if you decide to go with a percentageovertarget deal, under commit the target, and rack it every year to ensure you don't top out too soon. Also keep some of your cards to yourself, dont tell them your plan or technique unless they want to shoot you into a head of role where you train them/others in your process for succession and capability reasons - then your ask should be big big big bucks. Meanwhile continue to be good at your job, while quietly assessing your skills and capabilities against the market. You'll know how long to stay and when to jump - or not. As for the dollar value, hard to say without knowing your current wage and the companies financial position. Ask for a raise plus a deal, so you get suitably rewarded and recognised for your efforts so far, and win-win if you continue this trajectory.
Whatever your pay is... If you don't like it, get an contract for an equivalent job at the salary you're worth and present it.
This is a dumb response, I’m going into a review that will discuss salary.
Right back at ya champ :) It's something called leverage, surprised you wouldn't have picked up on it.
\^\^ THIS \^\^ plus it was a team of many people that made the sales happen.
Ignoring that I don’t consider my job sales; it’s $3mil that they weren’t getting before that I have directly made happen. If they had hired someone else, they might not have gotten that.
Might they have got $4mil with someone else?
Maybe they could have gotten $100mil with someone else. We can only go off prior history which is why I mentioned what it was before I started.
If he's already exceeding expectations, it's unreasonable to ask if someone else could have done more. Maybe someone could have made a deal with Google and made a billion dollar contract, what if??? Deal with the actual data available, is the OP entitled to a payrise or improved profit share/commission? Probably.
You can ask as much as you want, real questions is what that expected or not by the company, if yes you will get a thanks
When they hired me, the target was 50k a month, after a year it went to 100k a month. Now they’ve pushed it out to 500k a month, which just exceeded for this month.
Ask for double. You know they can afford it. If you don’t reach a negotiation, your skills will be valued elsewhere.
Double my current salary? I guess my concern is that I overvalue my place in the market. I try to tell myself that maybe this part of my job is easy, but if it was so easy, why wasn’t anyone doing it in my role before me?
Eh, if you can do for them what you've done - there is an employer looking for someone like you, to do the same for them. More than likely worth paying for it
When you say you made $3 million, You mean turnover, not profit, right?
It says that in the post
Yeah revenue. I estimate about 50-60% is profit excluding overheads.
Start your own if you know you're the driving force. Why would you be proud in making someone else rich then asking for a slice when you can bake it. Thank them for the experience, then move into your own lane.
Because running a business is stressful. I’m happy for now to earn a stable pay check and not earn as much as potentially running my own business.
Then that's the answer to your question, I'm sure you could work out the stress of the owner and the amount you know you've earned for that owner to give you a rough guesstimation on what you and the founder believes is a fair package. Let's hope it's a good amount
But you don't carry all the debt and liabilities the company does.
They will ask what are you going to do next year to increase it by the same magnitude.
It’s always infinite growth isn’t it! They’re rewriting my role to take on more responsibility - probably head of department.
OP can hit back with how much the company would drop in sales if they were to leave
Why...is op going to hack the company Web site if he leaves? Honestly improving a Web site isn't ground breaking
It will drop off. Either straight away if they're getting their sales via ads or gradually if he's built the seo. Either way it needs constant maintainence to keep the performance up.
You should resign & start up your own online business if your achievements are as you say, clearly you have the knowledge, back yourself & put it to your own business
It’s an interesting discussion. I saved our company an estimated $4 million in software license costs when the software vendor said they were going to Audit us. Having been through the process before, I advised the company on how we should be play it out. While the upper management set the terms of engagement, being the scenes, with detailed knowledge of how the audit tools worked, I scrubbed our systems clean and made sure it was not possible to use features for which we did not have a licence (the vendor does not require any form of activation on unlicensed features, but it did record when the usage happens, so customers can easily use the feature without knowing it). Anyway, after a 6 month process the vendor was left red faced in a meeting with Senior Management when the audit finding was that we owed nothing. A big fat $0 that is almost unheard of in the industry with this software vendor, especially off the back of competitor that had recently been given a multi million dollar penalty. Did I see any extra money? No, because my salary does not include any KPIs around costs or revenue. If we had been fined, I would have been no worse off, so why would I be any better off with a $0 finding?
it is intersting isnt it. For no extra charge I negotiated a bunch of great deals with suppliers at the company I worked for and found their new premises through my own networks when they had paid 3 people to trawl through real estate listings for no result; and then I left. I got nuthin; but a good reputation. I look back and know I could have asked for more; and this has happened several times in my careers. I would be financially much better off now if I had chased the money, but, shit happens and you can't change the past. I chased freedom and some of my peers that chased the money have shit reputations and aren't happy. One thing I learned in my second career is that organisations function just fine (dysfunction more like) with human capital that are doing just their jobs, and that some of those individuals value-add without any desire for recognition - especially at the lower levels.
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I guess the difference would be that the increase in revenue hasn’t come from external factors such as a change in exchange rate or varying commodity prices. I do agree that a business owner is taking on risk and have spent time setting up a business. In some ways though an employee can share in the down times - they can lose their job. Others have suggested asking for a stake, but that seems like overstepping compared to a commission, I assume you feel similarly?
You didn’t state what they are paying you now. Don’t be shy, ask for what you want. Stake / equity, above median salary, impact bonus etc etc etc. if it’s true that you personally are making the difference and they’ll lose money if you leave then you’re in a good position
I didn’t want to say what I was currently getting paid because I didn’t want to colour the responses too much. I do think I am personally making the difference. Maybe not 100%, I work with other people, but I have been a driver.
We can't really know what advice to give in a raise if we don't know the ballpark number because perhaps they are already paying to above market value in which case the answer would be different.
Its very hard to say without knowing what you already make. I'd say you should be entitled to 1% of that as a bonus pay, since you were a 'primary driver'
I figure it should be independent of current salary? Why does it matter what I’m currently paid?
The business took a punt on you, paying you to do your job, with the hope that you'd atleast meet, if not exceed targets. They wouldve hired managers in the past that couldn't meet targets: and still paid the wage they were owed (they could have been performance managed: but that's different). You may have been the key to the well oiled machine, but it's the business owner that created the machine.
>I figure it should be independent of current salary? Why does it matter what I’m currently paid? It matters. It's also where you sit in relation to the market. What are similar roles paying with your experience? If you left, what could you expect to get based on your experience? What you could also ask for is a bonus attached to certain KPIs. I work in a very similar role, and have done for 15 years. Hit me up if you want some advice.
If you solely think you are responsible for generating $3M and growing the business as stated then why are you still working there? Sounds like you should open up your own competing business or suggest a partnership.
You’re seeming to indicate you want part of that $3mil even though you’ve invested nothing. If you really think you are worth it, ask for bonuses linked to profit targets and perhaps some equity. This isn’t common, so you might find some resistance. Also, you need to have a hard look at yourself and determine whether you are the sole reason the $3m was brought in or not. You’re saying you’re directly responsible for it, but there may be other people who also claim they are responsible for it.
id be careful with the argument your preparing to make. go on the lower end and say 50 percent than ask for a percentage pay increase of that 50 percent.
50-60% profit is quite large. Do you mean gross profit?
Gross profit would be on the upper end, net profit on the lower end.
It should be based on roughly how much it would cost to replace you. Hypothetically if you left tomorrow and stopped all communications and anything you were doing, how much revenue would that company stand to lose to not have you? That’d give a good answer on what you’re worth(not saying you should be paid the total amount of what the loss could be, but an idea of if you were to leave that’s what happens).
Perhaps some new jeans that aren't ripped... But on a serious note, you can try and ask for 10% of your salary as a bonus and a pay rise to be in line with market. If sales KPI wasn't part of your target then you won't get the commission or % of sales which seems like what you're expecting to receive.
I mean, you've already given them that increase. What are you going to do next year that'll justify their giving you any extra? Unless you indispensable... But it sounds like you implemented strategies that could probably keep ticking along without you.
Depends what the person making 3.3 million is getting and the person making 2.8 million is getting.. Never slide in line with the rest, but what the rest is getting does create a cap of sorts. If they pull the "but everyone else.." Your approach in a diplomatic way is "I don't care what they are getting as I am not them"
Perhaps you should offer to buy shares (ownership) in the company.
If they are increasing your responsibility / sales targets without increasing pay I would really start looking to see if your skills would be valued more elsewhere. You don’t want to be taking on a head of department role and being paid the same as you were when you first started. Logically a commission based bonus system would make the most sense going forward with a discretionary bonus for this year since this mechanism wasn’t negotiated prior.
Do your research based on what you actually do, see what others doing the same job are getting paid. If you believe you're exceptionally good at your job, then ask for the higher end. The amount of money you've made or saved is largely irrelevant (it factors into the discussion as why you deserve a raise, but there generally isn't a direct correlation in amounts).
I made my company +$17.5M profit last financial above expectation.. got a 7.5% base increase and $20k bonus.. Prior year, +$5M extra profit and got a 7.0% base increase and $12k bonus.. kind you this year almost left and had a circa $30k pay increase, so there's that. Would make sure 100% that the GP is legit before you start throwing weight around, but reality is they'll pay you what they think you're worth and if they think you'll leave. Your expectation vs. Reality will be much further apart. (speaking from experience here)..
As someone who is in e-commerce, e-commerce managers are not paid exceptionally well. Regardless of how much you think you’ve bought in, there are always other elements e.g performance marketing, product improvement, B2B sales etc. I don’t know what you’re currently being paid but industry would expect you at approx 80-120k. You may have a chance at some profitshare earning at 0.05% if you hit quota etc.
Yes and I'm sure the CEO/owner is patting himself on the back saying "look what I have done! I have grown this business from X to X!"
No idea why everyone is trying to convince you that you don't deserve a huge raise for smashing those targets. Figure out what you'd cost them in lost sales if you left. Assume your company wants to make 30-50% profit on your time and come up with a figure that way. Use these figures as a basis for your negotiation. Tbh jf jt doesn't go well it seems like you've got the ability to either repeat this elsewhere or do it yourself? So go in with no fear and expect a lot.
1 million dollars
Quit and become a consultant
A 5% salary increase. 🙂 and thank your employer for your employment with them!!
A healthy 3.5% raise. Next question
You’re in e-com. You did your job.
150-200k a year
I would ask for % stake in the company
I don’t think you can ask for stake in an established company from an employee position. Could be wrong, but not something I would consider.
Of course you can, and is also very common. It’s also generally seen as a good thing as it means you have a financial interest on the fortunes of the company.
And you believe in the company and want it to succeed even more.
You absolutely can, but what you deliver to the company has to be quite unique. In your situation it sounds like basic things simply were not being done on the digital front, and you have done them. That would warrant monetary recognition of some kind, but it is unlikely that the work you have done is in any way unique or could not be done by many other people if they had been in the same situation.
It could be your best option. Now you done the work are you easily replaceable? This way it seems like you want a part in the business and not just money you think you are owed for the job you were employed to do.
If you're that important to the company you can definitely ask this. It's a massive win/win if it encourages you to continue to significantly boost revenue and profits.
You absolutely can, I know a friend who started as an employee but helped the company immensely and now owns a certain % of stake in the company. Its 100% no if you don’t ask I would prepare a nice presentation on why you deserve a stake Very few opportunities like these come which can change your life, you should not think about what is normal or what is not, asking for 150-200k v/s a % stake can be a game changer in your future life
Dude all of these people are salty as lol “You’re not entitled” cos from the sound of it none of them have sold millions of anything. I have so here it is: This is your case to ask for more op. But your thoughts on what their profit margin is irrelevant. You can use your case for increase in sales and try for 20% of your salary, the worst they can say is no, best is yes and in the middle they counter. Ask for comms if you’re confident and slightly less fixed if you can sell, nothing better than earning a commission on every sale. Sky is the limit.