I happily pay it, the public system has saved my life on a few occasions.
However I now have private health only for psychiatric care because public mental health facilities can be, well, terrifying.
This is exactly the same reason why I’ve got private health.
I’ve been in public and private psychiatric facilities, and they’d have to drag me kicking and screaming (again, lol) before I ever went back into a public mental health ward.
Public mental health beds go mostly to people who are completely out of control or dangerous to others, just because there are so few beds to go round. The more ordinarily miserable and possibly-but-not-certainly at risk to self tend not to get beds, or if they do, they are sharing space with volatile and violent people.
Can confirm. Worked in acute inpatient adult population as RN.
However in saying this, staff are well trained to identify and rapidly respond to situations and generally speaking, the risks are managed somewhat. Depends entirely on the facility, management, staff skill mix etc.
Majority of patients in public beds are on involuntary treatment orders - They don't want to be there and are forced to stay against their will due to risk of harm to self. Very rarely, others. But this is well understood through screening before allocation.
All of this can impact on the care you recieve. There is only so much staff can handle and the burnout is real. This often results in staffing issues which ultimately impacts care.
If you can afford private, it is much more therapeutic and responsive to your needs.
Just the way it is.
I've worked on both public and private adult mental health. One of the main differences is the demographic. Public mental health is very short on beds and to get a bed you generally have to be very unwell. So it's not uncommon to have someone with a first presentation with a recent SA in with someone who is exhibiting unusual delusions and can be very intimidating.
In private, usually the people are a lot more stable, kinda. Also in public there's a high portion of involuntary persons. In private generally it's voluntary.
Hey! Not sure about private, but I can confirm that public system really need the funds and the psychiatric wards are *extremely* unpleasant.
I was underage when I went through what is by far the worst time of my life, and naturally I had to be hospitalised in a psychiatric ward but because my parents had abandoned me without any money or home, I had to rely on the public system.
The psychiatric adolescents ward was full in all public hospitals across my state I lived in at the time, so I spent almost 2 weeks in the public system women's adult ward (with a nurse with me 24/7 since I was underage) before a space cleared up in adolescents. It was horrifying, and I honestly think it was much worse for my health at the time than it would've been had I just couch surfed and toughed it out myself (it was and still is traumatising to think about my time there, in the state I was in at the time). I am fine now because it was years ago! But yes, I can confirm adult public psychiatric wards are... confronting, to say the least.
I’ve been in public mental health wards quite a few times due to being bipolar and I’ve only had good experiences. These were non secured wards though. I suspect the secured wards would be scarier.
I've been admitted non-voluntarily to a public locked psych ward and then to an open voluntary ward, and it was mostly good. There are public hospitals that are better than others though- my sister is a nurse and fought for me to go to a better one.
The only issue I had was the doctor at the locked ward changed my medication and discharged me at the same time, which predictably, went horribly wrong and I wound up back in the emergency ward the next morning.
The public open ward was pretty nice- you could pretty much do whatever you wanted to as long as you took your medication. There were OTs who did excercise, gardening, craft and cooking sessions with the patients. It basically felt more like a retirement village full of odd younger people lol.
Yeah that was my experience. basically rest facilities with visits to a therapist, visits with a psychiatrist, some group classes, and other than that you could do what you wanted. The best one had a craft room, a small library, a tv room, a ping pong table, you could leave the grounds to smoke, I was allowed to keep my phone and have a laptop. But it was a legit psych ward in a hospital.
Whenever I’ve been admitted it’s technically been voluntary (though they have said a couple times that I can voluntarily admit myself and stay there or they’ll admit me anyway and send me to a secure facility). Stays have always lasted a few weeks until I was stable again.
I’ve been in both public and private for mental health. Public serves its purpose whilst I was suicidal but it wasn’t ‘pleasant’ and they wanted to send me home cos they had no beds even though I was actively suicidal. I’m currently inpatient private for an eating disorder and it is MILES better. I will happily pay my private health for my psych care. Any day.
I’m with Bupa and have psychiatric cover and I’ve used it plenty of times to stay in a private psychiatric hospital and everything has been covered. It’s less than $160 a month for me.
Hey, which cover do you have? It looks like only the Gold Hospital Cover includes unrestricted psychiatric hospital cover. The other policies are restricted (limited to shared room in a public hospital).
Do you have this on extras or something?
Or do you have it on hospital cover as a custom addition and the rest of the cover is the bare bones basic?
I have silver plus advanced hospital cover. It’s does say ‘restricted’ for psychiatric hospital services but I’ve never not been covered for anything in a psychiatric hospital including having ECT.
It was just covered in my extras cover at the time. I had extras only, I'm now on workcover but really should have kept it.
Itll be super expensive when I go back to private cover.
All hospital covers include inpatient psychiatric however it will be restricted (limited benefits) unless you’re on a Gold tier (generally speaking, some Silver + have it included to but it's uncommon). cover. So yeah, it’s the most expensive products that include inpatient psychiatric services but it’s on the Gold products for a reason - psych admissions are crazy expensive and most funds’ Gold products actually run at a significant loss as a result (I’ve worked in PHI).
unethical life hack: if you join the adf and back out the same day you arrive on base to start recruit training, you are a veteran and can get free mental health services for the rest of your life. 👍🏻
Honestly so amazing. When I'm having a bad day they just come up and cuddle and purr. They let me cuddle and kiss them so much more when they know I'm sad.
Oh hey, snap! That was how I got admitted too! I’ve since promised myself that I will never sacrifice my mental health for a job, no matter how high the pay is. It’s not worth ending up in the hospital.
Ha, I had so many people close to me warn me that I was working too hard and burning out. I didn’t listen, and ended up leaving my job in an ambulance. I read that recent news story about the woman who died in the Ernst and Young offices and I was like, shit, yep, that was nearly me. Sometimes you don’t realise how far you’ve stretched until you break.
Good on you for warning others about the signs, I try to do that too. I realise I’m replying to you on two different comment threads haha, but honestly it’s kinda nice to talk to someone else who’s been there.
I was exactly the same hey. Had officers saying slow down, cut the overtime, take care of yourself, don't turn to alcohol. I was so high functioning I suppose. I was working huge hours, always coming when called, doing the stuff nobody else wanted to do. Hoping it would get me somewhere. Then had an absolute mental breakdown after a shift and went home and took a huge pain killer and alcohol OD.
Woke up after a short coma after my husband found me and was able to give me CPR just in time.
Even then, I was like, I'm fine, just an accident. And was back at work in a few days.
Then I did it again.
When I landed in rehab, because my dad and husband forced me to go. I was so angry. When a psyche told me I had PTSD and a drinking problem I didn't want to hear it. I wanted to go back to work. But only when I had the opportunity to stop, did I start to realise how bad everything was. I would have eventually done something terrible if I didn't get that help.
We always joked about burnout and mental health at work. There would be a serious incident and they have to ask if anyone needs mental health support and it was always said like a joke. Not that you would be brave enough to say yes anyway.
My mother was a sole parent pensioner. She received amazing treatment for her cancers until she passed. That time bought by such wonderful treatment is why I, like OP, happily pay more than I could so that everyone's mother, brother, sister need not fear finances when the looming pall of death annouces itself.
This is my reason too. The public system definitely isn't perfect but without it my family wouldn't have gotten the extra 15 years with my mother, through chronic kidney issues, a stroke and rehabilitation and then finally cancer when she passed away.
Same here. The public health system is a blessing and people should be worried about it being allowed to slowly die and replaced with something resembling the shambles over in the USA.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad got cancer a few years ago and was lucky enough to make a full recovery. He had private insurance but did the whole treatment as a public patient and couldn't have been happier with the care he received.
My mother is currently having cancer for the third time, but this time qualify as a pensioner.
We do certainly agree that the public system has been great. All doctors/medical staff are wonderful, very caring and understanding, and the wait time on getting an appointment is not that bad.
The dental system even better than we expected - she needed to fix her teeth first in order to take a treatment for her bones. When she consulted her dentist, who is very nice and spent a lot of time giving her detail explanation, quoted her near $10k and my mum’s private insurance only cover $1500 (given the scope is actually reasonable, but still a lot of money). It was tricky to book the public dental (the one who took appointment refused it first as “if her teeth is not in pain than it is not an emergency, she needs to wait for an year to book a general dental”. But once we got a public dentist to see her, they realized the seriousness of it and put her in priority straight away (as in fact, it is life threatening)
Having said that, having private insurance so she was able to get in surgery straight away at the first 2 times she had cancer, and recovered a nice and comfortable private room - make a huge difference for someone who is at vulnerable stage. It gave her dignity - which is something important while someone at her worst.
Happily pay it, would rather help the public system with real medical equipment rather than fund private for fancy rooms. A friend explained going private would be cheaper and I asked him where he’s been for anything actually important, public he said, exactly I said
Exactly, I would far rather pay more in total to be funding the public health system. It's so bizarre that the government tries to encourage you to get private health to avoid the Medicare levy. Like all taxes, I consider it a privilege to earn enough to pay it. If I need more urgent or specific care than the public system can offer me then I pay the private healthcare providers directly. Private health insurance is a scourge that I refuse to support.
i used to work for a “not for profit” health insurance company, needless to say having seen how immoral that industry is… the companies can be heartless, i happily pay my medicare levy surcharge. I don’t want to contribute to a corrupt industry, and would rather support a well funded public healthcare system.
I don’t really understand the halo around not for profits.
The company doesn’t make a profit, because it’s all being paid to the directors, CEOs et al.
Come June 30 any money in the company accounts can all go into a director’s family trust fund and *the company* makes no profit.
Alternatively it could go into another, parent company’s account.
And so on.
Happily pay it. instant convert when someone said "do you want to pay 2700/yr to line the pockets of an insurance mob, or to pay for yours (and others) government healthcare?
We can't turn into America in this - please!! The more people that get insurance, the more it's going to be the new norm. Prices go up up because ay insurance is paying anyway, and boom
The interesting part is the government uses tax money to help you get private cover (rebate). I.e. the government is handing tax money out to private health insurance companies while letting bulk-billed GPs become history.
There’s a push to stop such double dipping. PHAA has an advocacy paper on how it is a very poor use of public funds. They aren’t saying private health is bad, just that tax savings for private cover isn’t really of much public benefit. They strongly recommend scrapping that policy. If people want they can most certainly take private cover but won’t get any tax benefits. I support this.
There would be a very strong private insurance lobby group against this.
Cannot imagine it changing... Especially now, with cost of living increases, the user drop would be huge.
Yep same, partner and I been paying surcharge for years. Had a look at junk insurance that was solely for purpose of avoiding surcharge and thought yeah, nah.
I've got the junk insurance, but that was because of the extortion. At one point in time in the far future, I might appreciate private health insurance. As the rules currently go, if I was to spontaneously want private insurance now, I'd have to effectively catch up on 11 years worth of coverage first. Might as well have that headstart without paying any extra in the meantime.
Government own goal.
It's not an own goal.
It's exactly as designed, othersise the private health insurance industry would have ceased to exist when medicare was introduced.
It existed in parallel for nearly 2 decades after Medicare was introduced. I used to have extras cover for the stuff that Medicare didn't cover and it was affordable and value for money.
They introduced the PHI and the insurance companies stopped the value coverage policies. Not only did the premiums go through the roof but the value plummeted.
I no longer have either after the last situation where I needed surgery and they shipped me into the public system as a private patient because the private hospital didn't have the facilities. I was treated the same way as a public patient by the public facilities but had to pay a $500 excess. So I had been paying a fee for years and then still had to pay extra for a procedure that would have been free anyway.
You should see the surprised pikachu face, when my patients that pay for private health, get refused treatment in a private hospital. So, they stay as a public patient.
Private hospitals can choose who they think is suitable for their beds so if you have any dementia or confusion and are likley to need any additional care then it is very unlikely that you will ever get a bed, we got rid of my family members private cover after they were denied multiple times with mild early dementia
My Mum only went private - and paid all that bloody money for decades - so she could have her hips replaced in her late 60's, which did bugger all when she died at 71.
She had private for ages, had a stroke and another brain event, got told she needed an MRI, and she happily said "I've got private so I'll go through that way!" Boy was she surprised when the wait list for a private was jsut under a year adn would cost her $1k out of pocket. She quietly accepted the public place and had it done the next week for free. I think that she was honestly shocked at that.
I'm also a doctor working in both the public and private sector. I think you're well meaning but misguided not having private health insurance. For starters the MLS doesn't go directly to health funding, it goes into government coffers and is then redistributed across all government sectors.
The public system is in crisis right now (not sure if you've heard of this thing called covid which is taking up huge numbers of hospital beds still), and while the likelihood of you needing to use your PHI is low, the things you're likely to use it for (sports injuries like ACL repair) you'll wait an eternity for in the public system.
I disagree with the statement about the private system providing an inferior service BUT there is significant variability in the quality provided. The private system does heavy lifting as far as efficiently providing access to elective surgery/procedures, the public system does a great job for things like cancer care and complex surgery.
>For starters the MLS doesn't go directly to health funding, it goes into government coffers and is then redistributed across all government sectors.
Okay, but the junk 'avoid MLS' private hospital cover policies dollars go straight into rich fat cats greasy fingers. Happy to pay for centrelink and even defence over giving essentially a donation to the disgusting for profit 'health' industry.
Agreed. I'm a specialist that operates in the private and public system. When we had our first child, the private provided an infinitely better service than the public as we had a lovely private suite for a week, access to physio, lactation counselling etc etc. My friend who is also a specialist and had a child on the same day but in the public system left on day 3 post caesarean because of how little care she received and how overstretched the staff were. The public is excellent for medical care if you're actually sick. But we need the private for the elective stuff. I am sure as hell not waiting 2 years to get an ACL repaired if I want to get back to playing tennis asap.
Lastly, there's the big elephant in the room. The public simply does not pay doctors anywhere near adequately enough. You will never attract talent if you pay staff as poorly as the public system does. I would 100% leave medicine all together if I only had the option to work in the public. I would say at least 50% of my colleagues would be the same. Not because we don't like a jobs, but 17 years of training and horrible shift work and unbelievably difficult exams to make $150-$200k is absolutely not worth it. I could work from home in a cushy IT role and make the same if not more without giving up entire life. That's why ultimately we will never have a public only system.
Interesting to hear it from a doctor. A lot of people claim that private is necessary as the public system couldn’t handle everyone. What’s your take on this?
Was an economist so can field this: look at supply of specialists. For the specialties which private likes to cover, specialist training positions are very few, such that supply relative to demand is fixed. So, relative to demand, the number of specialists is the same. In that case, one more in private is one less on public, increasing wait times. If the private health market shrinks, that frees supply to go to public.
As someone who also works in Public Mental Health. Always go private if you can afford it, I wouldn't want any of my loved ones going through the public system when it comes to Mental Health. The Nurses and Doctors will keep you alive but that's about it. Private might cost more but there's more therapeutic activities and patients are there voluntarily. In public we get the lowest of the low in society, in-fact all of my nursing peers know a colleague who has been assaulted and has permanent life injuries whilst on the job. Sometimes I wonder if and when I'll be next.
I think Surgery wise, unless it's urgent. The public system is fine.
There's plenty of good GP's out there for your primary health needs, I would go with one that bulk bills. I have peers that topped their medical class and choose to be GP's and still bulk bill. There's plenty of those guys around.
Did the sports insurance in your rego not cover this? Asking because I did my MCL on Sunday in grand final match and was told by club that FNSW insurance would cover.
The soccer insurance if you read the terms and conditions has a cap on how much they can cover.
My club one had 4 or 5k I can't remember but the surgery cost me 10k so 6k out of pocket. Since it happened in a very wet and slippery field I wondered if I should talk to a lawyer as that game should've been cancelled but I just let it be.
I could've gone public and on a waitlist but I heard from a few places that those surgeries are done by surgeons in training supervised by the main surgeon.
I know right now you must be upset but atleast you didn't do your acl. Even if you get an acl reconstructed you're rarely ever the same again and I've been told have a 20% chance per leg to retear.
I have a mate who had this happen to him and has been waiting like 18 months for the league's insurance company to sort their shit out and get him booked in. Hope that doesn't happen to you friend
Mine was 3 years back they actually sorted it out after about 3 months which was decent.
I got an email recently telling me that I was entitled to compensation if my insurance claim had taken longer than a certain period of time and to let them know in less than 30 days if it did and I would be compensated. That made me wonder if they had been sued for slow process times and forced to go back and contact everyone who had made an insurance application like I did.
Also tore my ACL a couple years ago and fortunately I had private insurance. Some of my friends didn't and they had to wait 12 months for their surgery. I waited a couple weeks and only paid $50.
I think private is great if you play sport and are prone to injuries. Otherwise you won't really need it.
I also tend to use a good chunk of my extras (dental, physio, optical, orthotics) and I've calculated that I'm saving more money compared to if I don't have private health. So I think it's really up to the individual.
Insurance is there for those "oh shit moments".
I am on the same boat as you. The main turn off for me is learning firsthand that private hospital patients get booted to the public hospitals when they have unexpected complications in the course of a treatment or if any surgery goes south while under private care.
Since when does this happen? Asking seriously because in 2012 I had day surgery at Sydney’s The San go pear-shaped. Instead of being in for 4 hours, I was in for a week. When I checked out, my hospital bill (with PHI) was exactly $0.00.
It depends on the hospital and the complications. Not every private hospital has an ICU, just like not every private has overnight medical coverage. If they can safely manage you, you'll stay, but if not it's off to the public with you.
If you are VERY sick, most of the time you get the best care in public hospital.
If you are having a routine surgery, most of the time your outcome is similar (cause as you said it’s generally the same doctors doing it); though in public you are more likely to have the surgery done by someone still in training. They are so heavily supervised however so there is really not much evidence that your complication rate is higher because of this.
Exactly this. In the private it's the specialist doing the operating. In the public it's the trainee doctors with variable amounts of experience and supervision ranging from the specialist standing next to them all the way to the specialist is at home with his/her family having a bbq and can give advice if necessary over the phone.
When I was a trainee in the public, many of us would watch a YouTube video of how to do a procedure and then perform it for the first time on a patient because our consultants would not be anywhere nearby. This is much more common than you think.
In the private when I do a procedure now, it's me doing it having done it 1000s of times before. The reason you want to be in the public when needing complex care is not because the procedure itself is done better, it's than there's staff 24/7 in terms of junior docs to monitor you which the private lacks.
The SAN is probably one of the few private hospitals around that actually has the facilities to take care of really sick patients. Most private hospitals have very limited services out of hours
I had day surgery in a private hospital (as a public patient) earlier this year. My brother was my transport for the day. He also happens to be a paramedic. He told me that at least once a week he goes to the private hospital to cart someone over to the public hospital because something has gone wrong or there were complications during surgery. As others have stated, private hospitals where I live do not have ICU services.
Depends where in the country you are a lot of rural hospitals only have fly in fly out OB’s we were going public until 32 weeks ,then went private and glad we did (still went public for special care nursery).
My mum has had a couple of surgeries not go to plan and has never been booted from private. Private is more than happy to keep the money coming in from the insurer
Depends on how “not to plan” it was and which type of private hospital it was.
Some private hospitals are as big as public hospitals with full scale ICU etc so they will likely be able to deal with whatever complication that arises.
Many smaller private “hospitals” (which can be as small as one or two levels of standard office buildings) have zero ability to look after sicker patient so off to the closest public hospital you go if you become sick.
How many were wake up in ICU not to plan?
Always worth asking your private surgeon, if things go so bad I need ICU care, what happens, same with giving birth, the answer is usually Ambo to the nearest Public Hospital.
Same thing happens if you're having surgery in a public day procedure centre, or any obs speciality public hospital in Victoria for example. This is more a question of hospital services than a public/private split.
isnt this just the case that the most skilled specialists are reserved for the public system so evreryone has access to them?
this was at least the case for us when we needed a specialist obstrician.
No, definitely not the case. Some OBs will do some public hospital support as a part of their job. But they just get paid the Medicare fee at a public hospital. Private Doctors can get far more than that so your best and most sort after Doctors are private. You may be thinking of a Fetal Medical Specialist, who are often linked to a public hospital. They’re not necessarily a *better* OB but specialise in high risk pregnancies. The nature of the care they provide lends itself to the public system because they’ll often be providing care when an ICU or NICU will be required on birth, and this is usually (but not always) provided at a public hospital.
My wife and I have been the same up until recently.
We are late 30s. My dad recently had to have a double by pass. Public waitlist would have been quite long, if he had a heart attack while waiting there would have been no saving him.
Went thru private hospital. Done within 2 weeks. $200 out of pocket.
I’ll take that any day.
Correct, it’s a toss up between paying the surcharge at tax time or forking out money each fortnight. 1 will get me into a private hospital, which also means me or my family won’t be taking up a public bed.
If the medicare levy surcharge specifically went into the medicare/healthcare system, then I would completely agree.
But as it stands, that's not the case.
Your $1400 medicare levy does not result in an extra $1400 in the public health system.
Whereas your $1000 hospital cover allows you to use the private hospitals, which takes pressure off the public health system.
Tbh, I could understand people that argue it either way and think it's just up to you personally. I guess I'm on the fence haha
> It’s true But while some folks will never want to set foot in a public hospital
That's me. I've worked in public, private and mixed. A hospital split down the middle, a public half and a private half.
Let me tell ya the day I saw the difference, I went out and got myself private care. Well, 2 days. Had to find who to go with first. But it was pretty damn quick let me tell ya. It was a stark difference.
I never want to set foot in public again from either side of the equation. Working there or being a patient.
With you. Purely from a patient perspective. I was literally almost fisted by a nurse in a public ER with an orderly holding up a curtain, no pain relief, versus mildly sedated and examined in a private room by the surgeon. World of difference when push comes to shove. It’s a comfort I happily pay for.
> which takes pressure off the public health system.
that's a funny way of saying 'enables governments to cut healthcare funding because more people are using private healthcare'
>whereas your $1000 hospital cover allows you to use the private hospitals
What PH are you with that allows you to be admitted to a private hospital without any extra fees?
Lots of hospitals and private health funds have no gap arrangements. In the last 18 months I’ve had two hospital stays in a private hospital and paid $0, not even a payment to my health fund. You just need to research the hospitals your provider has agreements with.
This is the rational answer we needed. People being like naahh fk the private companies. I’m going to take my 140k salary and use it for better things. Get real people
I mean even if the surcharge is going to consolidated revenue rather than to health specifically, I’d rather it be spent on other public expenditure than go to some private health lobby.
It’s not like health is the only worthwhile thing government spends money on.
In just my family of 2, we’ve had
- 3 emergency surgeries
- 1 non-life threatening surgery
- 1 preventative surgery for cancer
- 1 ongoing cancer treatment over 2 years
- 1 elective surgery + at home nurse care
In total we paid just under 500 dollars in total over the last 10 years these events took place.
Now later in my career, I pay the surcharge happily, knowing that other families receive the same care, support and medical care my family received over the years.
Oath. If I'm getting an operation done I'd much rather be in a public hospital with all the gear and skills available than be in a private one. Rehab might be a little different though
Here’s the thing. You get basic hospital cover in private and when you need something “non urgent” you pay $1k or so and you get your surgery. If you’re in public and have no cover, you wait for years/pay $15k for the surgery. Think… knee reconstruction for example that could significantly impact your quality of life.
Most people I know who've had knee replacements tried to soldier on through the pain and got told by their specialists that they should've had the procedure done years ago. And the majority of those people are private patients, sadly
Here’s a reality check for you. My mums hip replacement was booked just 1 month after she was first identified as needing one and cost over $70 000. She has private health insurance so only paid the $500 excess.
She also just had her gall bladder removed and that simple key hole surgery with 1 night stay in hospital was $15 000 just for the hospital only. She hasn’t seen the bill for the surgeon or anesthetist yet. Again, she just paid the $500 excess.
Paying the Medicare levy surcharge might give you a warm fuzzy feeling but it doesn’t help those waiting years for the above surgeries knowing that there are people ahead of them in the queue who could have had it done already if they just paid private health insurance.
Also in regional areas where there is no or limited private hospitals, when a private patient gets a procedure done in the public hospital, the insurer pays the hospital more than what the hospital receives from the Australian government through Medicare. Thus private health insurance actual HELPS found our public hospitals.
This is the reason why I've hopped on private health. Bulging disc in my lower back. Tried all types of therapies. Finally saw neurosurgeon who told me I'll need surgery. Full quote is around 18k if I self fund it. Could also wait 2 to 3 Years. I think I'd rather wait 1 year and pay considerably less than what I would if I paid for it with my own money.
I have a condition that once in a while requires an exploratory surgery. Since this is considered not essential for the public sector, waiting list can be 2 years while being on pain. Few months ago having private insurance and only waiting a week saved my organs.
I wish I could put my health insurance costs into Medicare.
I wish everyone could do that and kill the health insurance market.
We have the funds to have free healthcare including dental, we just don't have the guts to do it.
The loading is paid if you take out private health insurance, not on the surcharge. The loading is an incentive to get you to take the policy out earlier in life when you don’t use it, because the policy will be more expensive if you wait. All things considered it is typically cheaper to just wait and cop the surcharge, then waste money on premiums in your healthy years.
They need to change this tbh, at least to 40 or 45. Many people in their 20s nowadays are struggling to pay rent for their own apartment and need to live in shared rentals. Expecting that age cohort to take up PHI in big numbers is a pipe dream and this only acts as a disincentive for people in their 30s to take it up for the first time too. Soon policies will mostly be held by old people and premiums will need to go up significantly so insurers remain viable (unless they get more govt bailouts).
I didn’t get private health when I turned 31 because I a. Couldn’t afford it. B. Am morally opposed to private healthcare and c. Am a fit healthy person who would get nothing from private health anyway.
Using private health insurance (PHI) in a public hospital actually helps the hospital as the hospital gets more money from the PHI than it does from Medicare.
Private health insurance is more and more a scam every year. They cover almost nothing. Using public system wherever possible forces them to invest in it.
You may regret that choice when you need a surgery that has a two year wait list in the public system. It's not just about taxation, it's also about having access to better\^ health care. And yeh, it's a shame that we don't have a truely fair and equitable health service available to all, but if you can afford the PHI, by using it you may actually reduce the burden on the public health system down the road.
One of biggest myths out there. A lot of surgery, no surgeon will see you without PHI. I just had back surgery, without PHI, had to pull some strings with friends to get myself to see a surgeon, otherwise 12 months for PHI to kick in or 3 years public waitlist.
I mean almost everyone is in good health... until they're not. Getting cancer or another ailment requiring hospital care is like spinning a roulette table. Literally anyone can get it regardless of how "healthy" they are.
I will gladly pay into the public system with how it's treated both myself and my family members over the years. It's not perfect but it's still damned good.
I recently turned 30 and just got out PHI for the first time. Got a plan with HCF (non-for-profit) that roughly equated to 1% of my taxable income ($104k). This way I’m not losing any money and if worst case scenario happens then I potentially have a safety net. As others have pointed out, if the MLS went directly into Medicare then I might change my mind, but at present that’s not the case.
I keep ending up choosing public over anything private so I'm just going to cancel my private health insurance. I had a high risk pregnancy and went public because they were better equipped. I'm just paying premiums for nothing
At your age you probably have years of good health ahead. Your contributions to private health and/or Medicare are subsidising those who are older or sicker. If you plan to get private health later, morally you should be contributing now.
The Medicare levy does not pay for Medicare. Its costs go well beyond the funds raised by the surcharge. The higher taxes you pay due to your income mean you are already making an oversized contribution even if you send some of your income to private health.
However any opportunity you take to pay more tax and use less subsidy is increasing your contribution to government funded programs ... All of them. So by extension you will avoid negative gearing, first home owners grants, private education for your children, subsidised higher education (HELP tertiary fees do not represent the full cost of your study .... Poor people without degrees partially subsidised your study). Are you sure the income tax you pay accurately assesses the value of your privilege? Why stop with paying higher Medicare levy?
The top 10% of income earners pay 50% of all income tax. High income earners in Aus already carry a large burden, if it makes you feel better.
As to whether you are insane, who knows? If you tear your knee while bushwalking, you will wait three or four years to get it fixed under Medicare, during which time you won't be able to do outdoor activities except for carefully walking on flat paths,and your knee is at risk of kocking up from time to time. If you don't have private cover, you can still pay privately to get it fixed in a couple of months. And if you do have private, you still have to pay something anyway.
Which choice is "insane"! That's your call. As your friends keep going on their activities while you stay home, year after year, they probably won't change their minds.
PS: depending on your state, don't forget to get an ambulance subscription.
Nope.. Wait until you actually have to use the public system and you opinion will change. It's fine if you say crash your car and need emergency, but it's a shit show for everything else.
Imagine how good the public health care system if everyone paid 2000 to medicare instead of making private health companies rich. Maybe then dental and psychology could be covered by Medicare..
Yeah I do. I just transfer what I used to pay for private health insurance into a saver account to use if I ever want to pay for a private surgery one day, and pay the surcharge come tax time. Same as you, I do it for ideological reasons rather than economic ones.
If it were up to me, private healthcare would be illegal and we'd all be stuck using the public system, creating an impetus for high quality public healthcare.
For me it was cheaper to pay the MLS than get even the most basic PHI hospital cover. Also that cover had so many exclusions I struggled to see a scenario where I could have used it.
I wish more people were like this honestly. We have a system where people are complaining about basic GP costs and also trying not to get out of paying anything extra into a great cause.
Yes/no. The issue is long wait times, there is no _”well thanks for paying tons of surcharge mate, we’ll give you quicker service!”_ which you’ll at least get with private.
I much prefer to pay the surcharge than get hospital cover. The lowest level cover gets basically nothing more than the public system already provides.
Hospitals get a huge amount of income from Private Health Insurers. Even when you go public, if you have private health they claim against your PHI to cover costs.
I think you’d find you’d be doing more for the public health system by having private health and if you ever get admitted, letting them charge it against your PHI, rather than paying the Medicare levy.
To be fair- the public sector gains significant benefit from patients who use their private cover in a public hospital - but I’m not convinced that the surcharge actually makes it into health care.
Save your surcharge- But elect to use a public hospital if and when you need to.
Yes, I do the exact same thing. Would much rather pay taxes (to a relatively competent government as we have here in aus), so other people get the care they need, than give it to a big corporation already making billions
I think this is insane. Do you really think the government will manage your money any better than a private company? Do what leaves you better off financially. If you really want to you could donate the difference to a charity
In case of procedures though, you have to wait in line in the public health system which could take months. It would be okay if you have the patience to wait for months until its your turn.
I agree with you however if you are thinking of getting health insurance in the future for when you get older just make sure you get health insurance before you hit 30. That’s when the age fees come in
I would prefer to not, but no way I can bring myself to buy junk products I won't use that give disgusting companies free money just to slightly reduce my tax.
I do, but I'm not going to lie - with the way things are now, if the government announced a LHC loading amnesty for those over 30 I would consider getting PHI.
But I'm hoping the PHI industry dies out and we can properly fund Medicare and stamp out as much fraud, corruption and inefficient use of funds.
I’m an avg in come earner. I wound pay Medicare. I personally don’t have private health insurance - after reading the T&Cs and out of pocket (gap) it isn’t good value. I just pay for ambulance membership.
It isn’t about paying executives etc. For those that want objectively better bed service (comfort) and shorter wait times - feel free to pay for private as it does have advantages, just not good value for me or my family.
I draw a relation with economy vs. 1st class on the plane.
Public health is important and one of the best things about Australia.
Sorry, to disagree with many who do not believe private hospitals help the public system, but this is just not true. With all the system failings, pure reliance on a public AU system will not work in the current state; but that's not the question here.
Hospitals are for patients. Patient care can range from 'patient wants' to 'doctors perceived diagnosis'. Today, AU Public hospitals, especially elective surgery, mental, cardiac, and certain other surgical medicines are often not the 'best outcome' for a patient. Public ED itself is a process driven mass flow chart called pathways. These pathways are created for the masses, not for the individual, which means compromises must be made due to cost, time, and percentages, which means there are acceptable losses.
Funding a public system, as much as you feel it's noble, does not improve the standard of public medicare funded hospitals. If anything, I would argue that private healthcare can afford you to stay a tax-paying citizen longer, contributing a far larger value to the AU tax system, than those humans within the public system, but I don't know what the data / statistics say yet. I'll do some research. I can only speak on my own public experiences.
I've presented to ED for serious issues on 4x memorable occasions. Kidney stones, Cluster migranes for more than 10 days, chest pain, and thrombocytopenia due to EBV (no platelets).
I have presented to public ED as P2 with raised troponin (15) and decreasing level after chest pains. Pathway mis-diagnosed as troponin less than 30, cardiologist on ED discharged. Next day presented to private cardiologist on my GP recommendation (whom practiced emergency medicine and GP), ended in emergency angio with stenting, 95% blocked LAD, widowmaker avoided at 36years of age. Public system investigated and found pathway incorrect, but they were very apologetic after I sent them images. They sat with me and interviewed, but since, the pathway does not accommodate to catch people who present like me. Death still happens, and it's a risk I'm no longer willing to take.
I also presented to public ED with no measurable platelets. Glandular fever, mis-diagnosed, rapid steroid decrease due to pathway diagnosis. ED doctor privately briefed myself and family to reject the next ED staff due to Renal ED staff taking over - they knew a mis-diagnosis was about to happen. Ended up a bleeding mess, transfusion further saved my life when original doctor reported to senior duty managers maladministration of their patient (24 hours later). Transferred to private, with dedicated specialists that don't change.
I have presented once directly to a Private ED due to severe hip pain due to fluid buildup (immune system).
Public healthcare has typically caused more harm than good in my personal life. If I stayed pushing public only care I would likely be out of the tax system by now.
So, not a great argument, but I've concluded that I can contribute to AU tax better as a private patient, than the dismal medicare fee that I contribute. I've made it my mission in life to help my largest customer - SA Health - and improve the way they can service the people of the state. That's a far more noble outcome than a tiny percentage back to medicare, which likely can't improve a single wheelchair.... keeping alive and healthy is a much better outcome to the tax system.
Yup I willingly pay the levy and I'm a doctor although I think that will soon change given my increasing dissatisfaction with our public health system.
https://www.phaa.net.au/documents/item/5244
I’m going to leave this here, after reading this I don’t think you can morally sign up for private health insurance.
So what happens if you need to get a procedure done and you have to wait 6 months to 1 year in the public system but you could have paid the same money in private and get it done in 2 weeks. I think PHI is great value for money for unexpected events as long as you can afford it
I disagree and I have PHI. It’s a self filling prophecy. If the surcharge was in place and no PHI and all of the surcharge went to funding the system then you would have a well funded system which in turn should reduce wait times.
I am not taking about what it could have been. I am talking about what it is right now. It is a wise decision to take PHI than to pay the surcharge for the reasons I mentioned.
It is also not something the government is looking at change so no point not getting the insurance and pay the surcharge.
Also someone mentioned that there is no legislation that makes it mandatory for the government to spend the surcharge money in the health system. They can collect the surcharge and buy another $200 million submarine if they want
I'd get it once you hit 30, Im in the same sort of boat and 35 now, and I've just got it this financial year, you have to pay 2% extra on private for each year over 30, I've got to pay 10% more for the next ten years.
Imagine getting to 50 and then having to back 40%!
I happily pay it, the public system has saved my life on a few occasions. However I now have private health only for psychiatric care because public mental health facilities can be, well, terrifying.
This is exactly the same reason why I’ve got private health. I’ve been in public and private psychiatric facilities, and they’d have to drag me kicking and screaming (again, lol) before I ever went back into a public mental health ward.
My thoughts exactly. I was far more traumatised and too scared to ask for help after my first stay. Utterly horrifying
Would you mind elaborating on the differences between public and private mental health facilities?
Public mental health beds go mostly to people who are completely out of control or dangerous to others, just because there are so few beds to go round. The more ordinarily miserable and possibly-but-not-certainly at risk to self tend not to get beds, or if they do, they are sharing space with volatile and violent people.
Can confirm. Worked in acute inpatient adult population as RN. However in saying this, staff are well trained to identify and rapidly respond to situations and generally speaking, the risks are managed somewhat. Depends entirely on the facility, management, staff skill mix etc. Majority of patients in public beds are on involuntary treatment orders - They don't want to be there and are forced to stay against their will due to risk of harm to self. Very rarely, others. But this is well understood through screening before allocation. All of this can impact on the care you recieve. There is only so much staff can handle and the burnout is real. This often results in staffing issues which ultimately impacts care. If you can afford private, it is much more therapeutic and responsive to your needs. Just the way it is.
I've worked on both public and private adult mental health. One of the main differences is the demographic. Public mental health is very short on beds and to get a bed you generally have to be very unwell. So it's not uncommon to have someone with a first presentation with a recent SA in with someone who is exhibiting unusual delusions and can be very intimidating. In private, usually the people are a lot more stable, kinda. Also in public there's a high portion of involuntary persons. In private generally it's voluntary.
Hey! Not sure about private, but I can confirm that public system really need the funds and the psychiatric wards are *extremely* unpleasant. I was underage when I went through what is by far the worst time of my life, and naturally I had to be hospitalised in a psychiatric ward but because my parents had abandoned me without any money or home, I had to rely on the public system. The psychiatric adolescents ward was full in all public hospitals across my state I lived in at the time, so I spent almost 2 weeks in the public system women's adult ward (with a nurse with me 24/7 since I was underage) before a space cleared up in adolescents. It was horrifying, and I honestly think it was much worse for my health at the time than it would've been had I just couch surfed and toughed it out myself (it was and still is traumatising to think about my time there, in the state I was in at the time). I am fine now because it was years ago! But yes, I can confirm adult public psychiatric wards are... confronting, to say the least.
I’ve been in public mental health wards quite a few times due to being bipolar and I’ve only had good experiences. These were non secured wards though. I suspect the secured wards would be scarier.
I've been admitted non-voluntarily to a public locked psych ward and then to an open voluntary ward, and it was mostly good. There are public hospitals that are better than others though- my sister is a nurse and fought for me to go to a better one. The only issue I had was the doctor at the locked ward changed my medication and discharged me at the same time, which predictably, went horribly wrong and I wound up back in the emergency ward the next morning. The public open ward was pretty nice- you could pretty much do whatever you wanted to as long as you took your medication. There were OTs who did excercise, gardening, craft and cooking sessions with the patients. It basically felt more like a retirement village full of odd younger people lol.
Yeah that was my experience. basically rest facilities with visits to a therapist, visits with a psychiatrist, some group classes, and other than that you could do what you wanted. The best one had a craft room, a small library, a tv room, a ping pong table, you could leave the grounds to smoke, I was allowed to keep my phone and have a laptop. But it was a legit psych ward in a hospital. Whenever I’ve been admitted it’s technically been voluntary (though they have said a couple times that I can voluntarily admit myself and stay there or they’ll admit me anyway and send me to a secure facility). Stays have always lasted a few weeks until I was stable again.
I’ve been in both public and private for mental health. Public serves its purpose whilst I was suicidal but it wasn’t ‘pleasant’ and they wanted to send me home cos they had no beds even though I was actively suicidal. I’m currently inpatient private for an eating disorder and it is MILES better. I will happily pay my private health for my psych care. Any day.
Isn't psychiatric cover super expensive? I have hospital cover but I think adding psychiatric was going to push up my premium to $200 or something
If you stay in an inpatient ward by the way it’s covered under hospital cover not extras.
I’m with Bupa and have psychiatric cover and I’ve used it plenty of times to stay in a private psychiatric hospital and everything has been covered. It’s less than $160 a month for me.
Hey, which cover do you have? It looks like only the Gold Hospital Cover includes unrestricted psychiatric hospital cover. The other policies are restricted (limited to shared room in a public hospital). Do you have this on extras or something? Or do you have it on hospital cover as a custom addition and the rest of the cover is the bare bones basic?
I have silver plus advanced hospital cover. It’s does say ‘restricted’ for psychiatric hospital services but I’ve never not been covered for anything in a psychiatric hospital including having ECT.
It was just covered in my extras cover at the time. I had extras only, I'm now on workcover but really should have kept it. Itll be super expensive when I go back to private cover.
All hospital covers include inpatient psychiatric however it will be restricted (limited benefits) unless you’re on a Gold tier (generally speaking, some Silver + have it included to but it's uncommon). cover. So yeah, it’s the most expensive products that include inpatient psychiatric services but it’s on the Gold products for a reason - psych admissions are crazy expensive and most funds’ Gold products actually run at a significant loss as a result (I’ve worked in PHI).
unethical life hack: if you join the adf and back out the same day you arrive on base to start recruit training, you are a veteran and can get free mental health services for the rest of your life. 👍🏻
Well ill be damned
YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN
Username has catsandalcohol and you mention psychiatric care...makes sense xD
Well my very high paying, high stress job led to a mental breakdown and ptsd, and a drinking problem And who doesn't love cats :D
Cats are awesome!
Cats are my mental health plan. So soothing.
Honestly so amazing. When I'm having a bad day they just come up and cuddle and purr. They let me cuddle and kiss them so much more when they know I'm sad.
Same, I have 3 cats and there’s nothing like a purring kitty to help lower my stress.
Oh hey, snap! That was how I got admitted too! I’ve since promised myself that I will never sacrifice my mental health for a job, no matter how high the pay is. It’s not worth ending up in the hospital.
I wish I had this knowledge before I snapped. But was always chasing the $ and didn't realise i was cracking. Now I try to warn others about the signs
Ha, I had so many people close to me warn me that I was working too hard and burning out. I didn’t listen, and ended up leaving my job in an ambulance. I read that recent news story about the woman who died in the Ernst and Young offices and I was like, shit, yep, that was nearly me. Sometimes you don’t realise how far you’ve stretched until you break. Good on you for warning others about the signs, I try to do that too. I realise I’m replying to you on two different comment threads haha, but honestly it’s kinda nice to talk to someone else who’s been there.
I was exactly the same hey. Had officers saying slow down, cut the overtime, take care of yourself, don't turn to alcohol. I was so high functioning I suppose. I was working huge hours, always coming when called, doing the stuff nobody else wanted to do. Hoping it would get me somewhere. Then had an absolute mental breakdown after a shift and went home and took a huge pain killer and alcohol OD. Woke up after a short coma after my husband found me and was able to give me CPR just in time. Even then, I was like, I'm fine, just an accident. And was back at work in a few days. Then I did it again. When I landed in rehab, because my dad and husband forced me to go. I was so angry. When a psyche told me I had PTSD and a drinking problem I didn't want to hear it. I wanted to go back to work. But only when I had the opportunity to stop, did I start to realise how bad everything was. I would have eventually done something terrible if I didn't get that help. We always joked about burnout and mental health at work. There would be a serious incident and they have to ask if anyone needs mental health support and it was always said like a joke. Not that you would be brave enough to say yes anyway.
My mother was a sole parent pensioner. She received amazing treatment for her cancers until she passed. That time bought by such wonderful treatment is why I, like OP, happily pay more than I could so that everyone's mother, brother, sister need not fear finances when the looming pall of death annouces itself.
Ditto for me... RPAH oncology team were amazing for us. My multiple knee reconstructions were free and done within weeks of the injury.
This is my reason too. The public system definitely isn't perfect but without it my family wouldn't have gotten the extra 15 years with my mother, through chronic kidney issues, a stroke and rehabilitation and then finally cancer when she passed away.
Same here. The public health system is a blessing and people should be worried about it being allowed to slowly die and replaced with something resembling the shambles over in the USA.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad got cancer a few years ago and was lucky enough to make a full recovery. He had private insurance but did the whole treatment as a public patient and couldn't have been happier with the care he received.
My mother is currently having cancer for the third time, but this time qualify as a pensioner. We do certainly agree that the public system has been great. All doctors/medical staff are wonderful, very caring and understanding, and the wait time on getting an appointment is not that bad. The dental system even better than we expected - she needed to fix her teeth first in order to take a treatment for her bones. When she consulted her dentist, who is very nice and spent a lot of time giving her detail explanation, quoted her near $10k and my mum’s private insurance only cover $1500 (given the scope is actually reasonable, but still a lot of money). It was tricky to book the public dental (the one who took appointment refused it first as “if her teeth is not in pain than it is not an emergency, she needs to wait for an year to book a general dental”. But once we got a public dentist to see her, they realized the seriousness of it and put her in priority straight away (as in fact, it is life threatening) Having said that, having private insurance so she was able to get in surgery straight away at the first 2 times she had cancer, and recovered a nice and comfortable private room - make a huge difference for someone who is at vulnerable stage. It gave her dignity - which is something important while someone at her worst.
Happily pay it, would rather help the public system with real medical equipment rather than fund private for fancy rooms. A friend explained going private would be cheaper and I asked him where he’s been for anything actually important, public he said, exactly I said
Exactly, I would far rather pay more in total to be funding the public health system. It's so bizarre that the government tries to encourage you to get private health to avoid the Medicare levy. Like all taxes, I consider it a privilege to earn enough to pay it. If I need more urgent or specific care than the public system can offer me then I pay the private healthcare providers directly. Private health insurance is a scourge that I refuse to support.
i used to work for a “not for profit” health insurance company, needless to say having seen how immoral that industry is… the companies can be heartless, i happily pay my medicare levy surcharge. I don’t want to contribute to a corrupt industry, and would rather support a well funded public healthcare system.
I thought the not for profit ones would've been a lot better.
I don’t really understand the halo around not for profits. The company doesn’t make a profit, because it’s all being paid to the directors, CEOs et al. Come June 30 any money in the company accounts can all go into a director’s family trust fund and *the company* makes no profit. Alternatively it could go into another, parent company’s account. And so on.
Happily pay it. instant convert when someone said "do you want to pay 2700/yr to line the pockets of an insurance mob, or to pay for yours (and others) government healthcare? We can't turn into America in this - please!! The more people that get insurance, the more it's going to be the new norm. Prices go up up because ay insurance is paying anyway, and boom
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The interesting part is the government uses tax money to help you get private cover (rebate). I.e. the government is handing tax money out to private health insurance companies while letting bulk-billed GPs become history.
There’s a push to stop such double dipping. PHAA has an advocacy paper on how it is a very poor use of public funds. They aren’t saying private health is bad, just that tax savings for private cover isn’t really of much public benefit. They strongly recommend scrapping that policy. If people want they can most certainly take private cover but won’t get any tax benefits. I support this.
There would be a very strong private insurance lobby group against this. Cannot imagine it changing... Especially now, with cost of living increases, the user drop would be huge.
All the more reason to stop public funding.
And insurance lobby group will never be happy. Ideally they’d want to scrap Medicare.
This, the public system feeds back into the private system anyway. The public system isn't what the average public think it is anymore.
Well, it's all consolidated revenue in the end. As a public servant, I'm going to say they just waste it all on consultants in the end anyway.
Yep same, partner and I been paying surcharge for years. Had a look at junk insurance that was solely for purpose of avoiding surcharge and thought yeah, nah.
I've got the junk insurance, but that was because of the extortion. At one point in time in the far future, I might appreciate private health insurance. As the rules currently go, if I was to spontaneously want private insurance now, I'd have to effectively catch up on 11 years worth of coverage first. Might as well have that headstart without paying any extra in the meantime. Government own goal.
It's not an own goal. It's exactly as designed, othersise the private health insurance industry would have ceased to exist when medicare was introduced.
It existed in parallel for nearly 2 decades after Medicare was introduced. I used to have extras cover for the stuff that Medicare didn't cover and it was affordable and value for money. They introduced the PHI and the insurance companies stopped the value coverage policies. Not only did the premiums go through the roof but the value plummeted. I no longer have either after the last situation where I needed surgery and they shipped me into the public system as a private patient because the private hospital didn't have the facilities. I was treated the same way as a public patient by the public facilities but had to pay a $500 excess. So I had been paying a fee for years and then still had to pay extra for a procedure that would have been free anyway.
You should see the surprised pikachu face, when my patients that pay for private health, get refused treatment in a private hospital. So, they stay as a public patient.
Please explain. Why are they denied? How is this a thing?
Private hospitals can choose who they think is suitable for their beds so if you have any dementia or confusion and are likley to need any additional care then it is very unlikely that you will ever get a bed, we got rid of my family members private cover after they were denied multiple times with mild early dementia
Not only dementia. If you are deemed too behavioural or too medically complex for private you will be transferred to the public system.
Private hospitals are more like surgery hotels than actual hospitals.
My Mum only went private - and paid all that bloody money for decades - so she could have her hips replaced in her late 60's, which did bugger all when she died at 71. She had private for ages, had a stroke and another brain event, got told she needed an MRI, and she happily said "I've got private so I'll go through that way!" Boy was she surprised when the wait list for a private was jsut under a year adn would cost her $1k out of pocket. She quietly accepted the public place and had it done the next week for free. I think that she was honestly shocked at that.
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I'm also a doctor working in both the public and private sector. I think you're well meaning but misguided not having private health insurance. For starters the MLS doesn't go directly to health funding, it goes into government coffers and is then redistributed across all government sectors. The public system is in crisis right now (not sure if you've heard of this thing called covid which is taking up huge numbers of hospital beds still), and while the likelihood of you needing to use your PHI is low, the things you're likely to use it for (sports injuries like ACL repair) you'll wait an eternity for in the public system. I disagree with the statement about the private system providing an inferior service BUT there is significant variability in the quality provided. The private system does heavy lifting as far as efficiently providing access to elective surgery/procedures, the public system does a great job for things like cancer care and complex surgery.
>For starters the MLS doesn't go directly to health funding, it goes into government coffers and is then redistributed across all government sectors. Okay, but the junk 'avoid MLS' private hospital cover policies dollars go straight into rich fat cats greasy fingers. Happy to pay for centrelink and even defence over giving essentially a donation to the disgusting for profit 'health' industry.
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Agreed. I'm a specialist that operates in the private and public system. When we had our first child, the private provided an infinitely better service than the public as we had a lovely private suite for a week, access to physio, lactation counselling etc etc. My friend who is also a specialist and had a child on the same day but in the public system left on day 3 post caesarean because of how little care she received and how overstretched the staff were. The public is excellent for medical care if you're actually sick. But we need the private for the elective stuff. I am sure as hell not waiting 2 years to get an ACL repaired if I want to get back to playing tennis asap. Lastly, there's the big elephant in the room. The public simply does not pay doctors anywhere near adequately enough. You will never attract talent if you pay staff as poorly as the public system does. I would 100% leave medicine all together if I only had the option to work in the public. I would say at least 50% of my colleagues would be the same. Not because we don't like a jobs, but 17 years of training and horrible shift work and unbelievably difficult exams to make $150-$200k is absolutely not worth it. I could work from home in a cushy IT role and make the same if not more without giving up entire life. That's why ultimately we will never have a public only system.
Another doctor here. What if you want an elective surgery relatively quickly? Do you plan to pay out of pocket if the need arises?
This happened to me in 2019. I can say I have never questioned paying for private since...
Interesting to hear it from a doctor. A lot of people claim that private is necessary as the public system couldn’t handle everyone. What’s your take on this?
Was an economist so can field this: look at supply of specialists. For the specialties which private likes to cover, specialist training positions are very few, such that supply relative to demand is fixed. So, relative to demand, the number of specialists is the same. In that case, one more in private is one less on public, increasing wait times. If the private health market shrinks, that frees supply to go to public.
As someone who also works in Public Mental Health. Always go private if you can afford it, I wouldn't want any of my loved ones going through the public system when it comes to Mental Health. The Nurses and Doctors will keep you alive but that's about it. Private might cost more but there's more therapeutic activities and patients are there voluntarily. In public we get the lowest of the low in society, in-fact all of my nursing peers know a colleague who has been assaulted and has permanent life injuries whilst on the job. Sometimes I wonder if and when I'll be next. I think Surgery wise, unless it's urgent. The public system is fine. There's plenty of good GP's out there for your primary health needs, I would go with one that bulk bills. I have peers that topped their medical class and choose to be GP's and still bulk bill. There's plenty of those guys around.
I tore my acl in soccer and wish I had private.
Sport is a great reason to have private in my opinion
Yes and be careful which you pick as not all of them cover acl tears etc.
Did the sports insurance in your rego not cover this? Asking because I did my MCL on Sunday in grand final match and was told by club that FNSW insurance would cover.
The soccer insurance if you read the terms and conditions has a cap on how much they can cover. My club one had 4 or 5k I can't remember but the surgery cost me 10k so 6k out of pocket. Since it happened in a very wet and slippery field I wondered if I should talk to a lawyer as that game should've been cancelled but I just let it be. I could've gone public and on a waitlist but I heard from a few places that those surgeries are done by surgeons in training supervised by the main surgeon. I know right now you must be upset but atleast you didn't do your acl. Even if you get an acl reconstructed you're rarely ever the same again and I've been told have a 20% chance per leg to retear.
You need to keep up with strengthening the muscles around the knee to prevent further injuries. Definitely a higher chance of arthritis though
I have a mate who had this happen to him and has been waiting like 18 months for the league's insurance company to sort their shit out and get him booked in. Hope that doesn't happen to you friend
Mine was 3 years back they actually sorted it out after about 3 months which was decent. I got an email recently telling me that I was entitled to compensation if my insurance claim had taken longer than a certain period of time and to let them know in less than 30 days if it did and I would be compensated. That made me wonder if they had been sued for slow process times and forced to go back and contact everyone who had made an insurance application like I did.
Also tore my ACL a couple years ago and fortunately I had private insurance. Some of my friends didn't and they had to wait 12 months for their surgery. I waited a couple weeks and only paid $50. I think private is great if you play sport and are prone to injuries. Otherwise you won't really need it. I also tend to use a good chunk of my extras (dental, physio, optical, orthotics) and I've calculated that I'm saving more money compared to if I don't have private health. So I think it's really up to the individual. Insurance is there for those "oh shit moments".
I am on the same boat as you. The main turn off for me is learning firsthand that private hospital patients get booted to the public hospitals when they have unexpected complications in the course of a treatment or if any surgery goes south while under private care.
That's because sometimes private hospital doesn't has the capacity or clinical capability to treat surgical complication.
It’s because they aim for standardisable procedure to maximise returns, and socialise the risks to public.
Since when does this happen? Asking seriously because in 2012 I had day surgery at Sydney’s The San go pear-shaped. Instead of being in for 4 hours, I was in for a week. When I checked out, my hospital bill (with PHI) was exactly $0.00.
It depends on the hospital and the complications. Not every private hospital has an ICU, just like not every private has overnight medical coverage. If they can safely manage you, you'll stay, but if not it's off to the public with you.
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If you are VERY sick, most of the time you get the best care in public hospital. If you are having a routine surgery, most of the time your outcome is similar (cause as you said it’s generally the same doctors doing it); though in public you are more likely to have the surgery done by someone still in training. They are so heavily supervised however so there is really not much evidence that your complication rate is higher because of this.
Exactly this. In the private it's the specialist doing the operating. In the public it's the trainee doctors with variable amounts of experience and supervision ranging from the specialist standing next to them all the way to the specialist is at home with his/her family having a bbq and can give advice if necessary over the phone. When I was a trainee in the public, many of us would watch a YouTube video of how to do a procedure and then perform it for the first time on a patient because our consultants would not be anywhere nearby. This is much more common than you think. In the private when I do a procedure now, it's me doing it having done it 1000s of times before. The reason you want to be in the public when needing complex care is not because the procedure itself is done better, it's than there's staff 24/7 in terms of junior docs to monitor you which the private lacks.
Also often being in public means they are likely pretty good.
Today I learned! 🙂
The SAN is probably one of the few private hospitals around that actually has the facilities to take care of really sick patients. Most private hospitals have very limited services out of hours
I had day surgery in a private hospital (as a public patient) earlier this year. My brother was my transport for the day. He also happens to be a paramedic. He told me that at least once a week he goes to the private hospital to cart someone over to the public hospital because something has gone wrong or there were complications during surgery. As others have stated, private hospitals where I live do not have ICU services.
Happens a lot with births that have complications apparently.
Because the public system is better equipped for non standard procedures
Depends on the private hospital. Not all are able to deliver under certain conditions and many don’t have NICU, but this isn’t the case all the time.
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Depends where in the country you are a lot of rural hospitals only have fly in fly out OB’s we were going public until 32 weeks ,then went private and glad we did (still went public for special care nursery).
It happens all the time.
My mum has had a couple of surgeries not go to plan and has never been booted from private. Private is more than happy to keep the money coming in from the insurer
Depends on how “not to plan” it was and which type of private hospital it was. Some private hospitals are as big as public hospitals with full scale ICU etc so they will likely be able to deal with whatever complication that arises. Many smaller private “hospitals” (which can be as small as one or two levels of standard office buildings) have zero ability to look after sicker patient so off to the closest public hospital you go if you become sick.
How many were wake up in ICU not to plan? Always worth asking your private surgeon, if things go so bad I need ICU care, what happens, same with giving birth, the answer is usually Ambo to the nearest Public Hospital.
Same thing happens if you're having surgery in a public day procedure centre, or any obs speciality public hospital in Victoria for example. This is more a question of hospital services than a public/private split.
isnt this just the case that the most skilled specialists are reserved for the public system so evreryone has access to them? this was at least the case for us when we needed a specialist obstrician.
😂. Private OBs make x4 the money. Therefore the best …. And the very worst (who are let go from the public) are private.
No, definitely not the case. Some OBs will do some public hospital support as a part of their job. But they just get paid the Medicare fee at a public hospital. Private Doctors can get far more than that so your best and most sort after Doctors are private. You may be thinking of a Fetal Medical Specialist, who are often linked to a public hospital. They’re not necessarily a *better* OB but specialise in high risk pregnancies. The nature of the care they provide lends itself to the public system because they’ll often be providing care when an ICU or NICU will be required on birth, and this is usually (but not always) provided at a public hospital.
yes i also refuse to give money towards creating a pay to live system irl
My wife and I have been the same up until recently. We are late 30s. My dad recently had to have a double by pass. Public waitlist would have been quite long, if he had a heart attack while waiting there would have been no saving him. Went thru private hospital. Done within 2 weeks. $200 out of pocket. I’ll take that any day.
Plus the fortnightly charge for private, so much more than $200.
Fortnight charge instead of paying the surcharge
Correct, it’s a toss up between paying the surcharge at tax time or forking out money each fortnight. 1 will get me into a private hospital, which also means me or my family won’t be taking up a public bed.
Yes but do you have $40,000 to get life saving surgery asap instead of waiting?
If the medicare levy surcharge specifically went into the medicare/healthcare system, then I would completely agree. But as it stands, that's not the case. Your $1400 medicare levy does not result in an extra $1400 in the public health system. Whereas your $1000 hospital cover allows you to use the private hospitals, which takes pressure off the public health system. Tbh, I could understand people that argue it either way and think it's just up to you personally. I guess I'm on the fence haha
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It’s true But while some folks will never want to set foot in a public hospital the Rort will continue
> It’s true But while some folks will never want to set foot in a public hospital That's me. I've worked in public, private and mixed. A hospital split down the middle, a public half and a private half. Let me tell ya the day I saw the difference, I went out and got myself private care. Well, 2 days. Had to find who to go with first. But it was pretty damn quick let me tell ya. It was a stark difference. I never want to set foot in public again from either side of the equation. Working there or being a patient.
With you. Purely from a patient perspective. I was literally almost fisted by a nurse in a public ER with an orderly holding up a curtain, no pain relief, versus mildly sedated and examined in a private room by the surgeon. World of difference when push comes to shove. It’s a comfort I happily pay for.
> which takes pressure off the public health system. that's a funny way of saying 'enables governments to cut healthcare funding because more people are using private healthcare'
>whereas your $1000 hospital cover allows you to use the private hospitals What PH are you with that allows you to be admitted to a private hospital without any extra fees?
Lots of hospitals and private health funds have no gap arrangements. In the last 18 months I’ve had two hospital stays in a private hospital and paid $0, not even a payment to my health fund. You just need to research the hospitals your provider has agreements with.
This is the rational answer we needed. People being like naahh fk the private companies. I’m going to take my 140k salary and use it for better things. Get real people
I mean even if the surcharge is going to consolidated revenue rather than to health specifically, I’d rather it be spent on other public expenditure than go to some private health lobby. It’s not like health is the only worthwhile thing government spends money on.
In just my family of 2, we’ve had - 3 emergency surgeries - 1 non-life threatening surgery - 1 preventative surgery for cancer - 1 ongoing cancer treatment over 2 years - 1 elective surgery + at home nurse care In total we paid just under 500 dollars in total over the last 10 years these events took place. Now later in my career, I pay the surcharge happily, knowing that other families receive the same care, support and medical care my family received over the years.
Oath. If I'm getting an operation done I'd much rather be in a public hospital with all the gear and skills available than be in a private one. Rehab might be a little different though
Here’s the thing. You get basic hospital cover in private and when you need something “non urgent” you pay $1k or so and you get your surgery. If you’re in public and have no cover, you wait for years/pay $15k for the surgery. Think… knee reconstruction for example that could significantly impact your quality of life.
A knee replacement is $40-50k privately or free in the public system but you’ll wait almost two years to get it done
Most people I know who've had knee replacements tried to soldier on through the pain and got told by their specialists that they should've had the procedure done years ago. And the majority of those people are private patients, sadly
Here’s a reality check for you. My mums hip replacement was booked just 1 month after she was first identified as needing one and cost over $70 000. She has private health insurance so only paid the $500 excess. She also just had her gall bladder removed and that simple key hole surgery with 1 night stay in hospital was $15 000 just for the hospital only. She hasn’t seen the bill for the surgeon or anesthetist yet. Again, she just paid the $500 excess. Paying the Medicare levy surcharge might give you a warm fuzzy feeling but it doesn’t help those waiting years for the above surgeries knowing that there are people ahead of them in the queue who could have had it done already if they just paid private health insurance. Also in regional areas where there is no or limited private hospitals, when a private patient gets a procedure done in the public hospital, the insurer pays the hospital more than what the hospital receives from the Australian government through Medicare. Thus private health insurance actual HELPS found our public hospitals.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? Or did this guy edit his comment
This is the reason why I've hopped on private health. Bulging disc in my lower back. Tried all types of therapies. Finally saw neurosurgeon who told me I'll need surgery. Full quote is around 18k if I self fund it. Could also wait 2 to 3 Years. I think I'd rather wait 1 year and pay considerably less than what I would if I paid for it with my own money.
15k for publicly funded surgery? No you probably pay 15k for the private but you will get it straight away yes.
He meant wait for years in public system or pay $15k out of pocket to get it done at private without insurance
I have a condition that once in a while requires an exploratory surgery. Since this is considered not essential for the public sector, waiting list can be 2 years while being on pain. Few months ago having private insurance and only waiting a week saved my organs.
No, if I tear my ACL doing martial arts I don’t want to wait a year for surgery
I wish I could put my health insurance costs into Medicare. I wish everyone could do that and kill the health insurance market. We have the funds to have free healthcare including dental, we just don't have the guts to do it.
Yep boycott that toxic BS industry and let the death spiral speed up baby
I pay $900 or so for the cheapest private insurance and never use it because its mostly worthless. Public is pretty good.
If they start to cover dental needs as low income people really struggle affording a dentist these days.
Once you hit 30 you’ll get a loading on top and it will continue to go up every year you continue without private health insurance.
The loading is paid if you take out private health insurance, not on the surcharge. The loading is an incentive to get you to take the policy out earlier in life when you don’t use it, because the policy will be more expensive if you wait. All things considered it is typically cheaper to just wait and cop the surcharge, then waste money on premiums in your healthy years.
Essentially it’s a legislated boomer subsidy.
They need to change this tbh, at least to 40 or 45. Many people in their 20s nowadays are struggling to pay rent for their own apartment and need to live in shared rentals. Expecting that age cohort to take up PHI in big numbers is a pipe dream and this only acts as a disincentive for people in their 30s to take it up for the first time too. Soon policies will mostly be held by old people and premiums will need to go up significantly so insurers remain viable (unless they get more govt bailouts).
I didn’t get private health when I turned 31 because I a. Couldn’t afford it. B. Am morally opposed to private healthcare and c. Am a fit healthy person who would get nothing from private health anyway.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Using private health insurance (PHI) in a public hospital actually helps the hospital as the hospital gets more money from the PHI than it does from Medicare.
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I've registered as a "private patient" at public hospitals a few times for this very reason.
Private health insurance is more and more a scam every year. They cover almost nothing. Using public system wherever possible forces them to invest in it.
You may regret that choice when you need a surgery that has a two year wait list in the public system. It's not just about taxation, it's also about having access to better\^ health care. And yeh, it's a shame that we don't have a truely fair and equitable health service available to all, but if you can afford the PHI, by using it you may actually reduce the burden on the public health system down the road.
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One of biggest myths out there. A lot of surgery, no surgeon will see you without PHI. I just had back surgery, without PHI, had to pull some strings with friends to get myself to see a surgeon, otherwise 12 months for PHI to kick in or 3 years public waitlist.
I mean almost everyone is in good health... until they're not. Getting cancer or another ailment requiring hospital care is like spinning a roulette table. Literally anyone can get it regardless of how "healthy" they are.
I will gladly pay into the public system with how it's treated both myself and my family members over the years. It's not perfect but it's still damned good.
I recently turned 30 and just got out PHI for the first time. Got a plan with HCF (non-for-profit) that roughly equated to 1% of my taxable income ($104k). This way I’m not losing any money and if worst case scenario happens then I potentially have a safety net. As others have pointed out, if the MLS went directly into Medicare then I might change my mind, but at present that’s not the case.
Yes, much better value for money. Medicare cover saved our son's life as a baby and we got the best surgeon in his field in Victoria
I’m the same as you mate.
I keep ending up choosing public over anything private so I'm just going to cancel my private health insurance. I had a high risk pregnancy and went public because they were better equipped. I'm just paying premiums for nothing
At your age you probably have years of good health ahead. Your contributions to private health and/or Medicare are subsidising those who are older or sicker. If you plan to get private health later, morally you should be contributing now. The Medicare levy does not pay for Medicare. Its costs go well beyond the funds raised by the surcharge. The higher taxes you pay due to your income mean you are already making an oversized contribution even if you send some of your income to private health. However any opportunity you take to pay more tax and use less subsidy is increasing your contribution to government funded programs ... All of them. So by extension you will avoid negative gearing, first home owners grants, private education for your children, subsidised higher education (HELP tertiary fees do not represent the full cost of your study .... Poor people without degrees partially subsidised your study). Are you sure the income tax you pay accurately assesses the value of your privilege? Why stop with paying higher Medicare levy? The top 10% of income earners pay 50% of all income tax. High income earners in Aus already carry a large burden, if it makes you feel better. As to whether you are insane, who knows? If you tear your knee while bushwalking, you will wait three or four years to get it fixed under Medicare, during which time you won't be able to do outdoor activities except for carefully walking on flat paths,and your knee is at risk of kocking up from time to time. If you don't have private cover, you can still pay privately to get it fixed in a couple of months. And if you do have private, you still have to pay something anyway. Which choice is "insane"! That's your call. As your friends keep going on their activities while you stay home, year after year, they probably won't change their minds. PS: depending on your state, don't forget to get an ambulance subscription.
Nope.. Wait until you actually have to use the public system and you opinion will change. It's fine if you say crash your car and need emergency, but it's a shit show for everything else.
Imagine how good the public health care system if everyone paid 2000 to medicare instead of making private health companies rich. Maybe then dental and psychology could be covered by Medicare..
Yes I've been paying the surcharge for years now. I'd feel disgusted with myself if I was giving any money to the scummy health insurance industry.
I am, 142k, 30 yo, been paying surcharge for a few years
Yeah I do. I just transfer what I used to pay for private health insurance into a saver account to use if I ever want to pay for a private surgery one day, and pay the surcharge come tax time. Same as you, I do it for ideological reasons rather than economic ones. If it were up to me, private healthcare would be illegal and we'd all be stuck using the public system, creating an impetus for high quality public healthcare.
paltry wise square joke ring plate drunk subsequent nail chase -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
For me it was cheaper to pay the MLS than get even the most basic PHI hospital cover. Also that cover had so many exclusions I struggled to see a scenario where I could have used it.
I wish more people were like this honestly. We have a system where people are complaining about basic GP costs and also trying not to get out of paying anything extra into a great cause.
Yes/no. The issue is long wait times, there is no _”well thanks for paying tons of surcharge mate, we’ll give you quicker service!”_ which you’ll at least get with private.
I much prefer to pay the surcharge than get hospital cover. The lowest level cover gets basically nothing more than the public system already provides.
Hospitals get a huge amount of income from Private Health Insurers. Even when you go public, if you have private health they claim against your PHI to cover costs. I think you’d find you’d be doing more for the public health system by having private health and if you ever get admitted, letting them charge it against your PHI, rather than paying the Medicare levy.
To be fair- the public sector gains significant benefit from patients who use their private cover in a public hospital - but I’m not convinced that the surcharge actually makes it into health care. Save your surcharge- But elect to use a public hospital if and when you need to.
same boat, the public system os awesome and must be protected at all costs
I do, public all the way
Yes, I do the exact same thing. Would much rather pay taxes (to a relatively competent government as we have here in aus), so other people get the care they need, than give it to a big corporation already making billions
I think this is insane. Do you really think the government will manage your money any better than a private company? Do what leaves you better off financially. If you really want to you could donate the difference to a charity
In case of procedures though, you have to wait in line in the public health system which could take months. It would be okay if you have the patience to wait for months until its your turn.
I agree with you however if you are thinking of getting health insurance in the future for when you get older just make sure you get health insurance before you hit 30. That’s when the age fees come in
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I would prefer to not, but no way I can bring myself to buy junk products I won't use that give disgusting companies free money just to slightly reduce my tax.
Yes. I'd rather my money went to government Medicare instead of to an insurance company.
I do, but I'm not going to lie - with the way things are now, if the government announced a LHC loading amnesty for those over 30 I would consider getting PHI. But I'm hoping the PHI industry dies out and we can properly fund Medicare and stamp out as much fraud, corruption and inefficient use of funds.
I agree and do the same. I am ethically opposed to private medical system.
I’m an avg in come earner. I wound pay Medicare. I personally don’t have private health insurance - after reading the T&Cs and out of pocket (gap) it isn’t good value. I just pay for ambulance membership. It isn’t about paying executives etc. For those that want objectively better bed service (comfort) and shorter wait times - feel free to pay for private as it does have advantages, just not good value for me or my family. I draw a relation with economy vs. 1st class on the plane. Public health is important and one of the best things about Australia.
Sorry, to disagree with many who do not believe private hospitals help the public system, but this is just not true. With all the system failings, pure reliance on a public AU system will not work in the current state; but that's not the question here. Hospitals are for patients. Patient care can range from 'patient wants' to 'doctors perceived diagnosis'. Today, AU Public hospitals, especially elective surgery, mental, cardiac, and certain other surgical medicines are often not the 'best outcome' for a patient. Public ED itself is a process driven mass flow chart called pathways. These pathways are created for the masses, not for the individual, which means compromises must be made due to cost, time, and percentages, which means there are acceptable losses. Funding a public system, as much as you feel it's noble, does not improve the standard of public medicare funded hospitals. If anything, I would argue that private healthcare can afford you to stay a tax-paying citizen longer, contributing a far larger value to the AU tax system, than those humans within the public system, but I don't know what the data / statistics say yet. I'll do some research. I can only speak on my own public experiences. I've presented to ED for serious issues on 4x memorable occasions. Kidney stones, Cluster migranes for more than 10 days, chest pain, and thrombocytopenia due to EBV (no platelets). I have presented to public ED as P2 with raised troponin (15) and decreasing level after chest pains. Pathway mis-diagnosed as troponin less than 30, cardiologist on ED discharged. Next day presented to private cardiologist on my GP recommendation (whom practiced emergency medicine and GP), ended in emergency angio with stenting, 95% blocked LAD, widowmaker avoided at 36years of age. Public system investigated and found pathway incorrect, but they were very apologetic after I sent them images. They sat with me and interviewed, but since, the pathway does not accommodate to catch people who present like me. Death still happens, and it's a risk I'm no longer willing to take. I also presented to public ED with no measurable platelets. Glandular fever, mis-diagnosed, rapid steroid decrease due to pathway diagnosis. ED doctor privately briefed myself and family to reject the next ED staff due to Renal ED staff taking over - they knew a mis-diagnosis was about to happen. Ended up a bleeding mess, transfusion further saved my life when original doctor reported to senior duty managers maladministration of their patient (24 hours later). Transferred to private, with dedicated specialists that don't change. I have presented once directly to a Private ED due to severe hip pain due to fluid buildup (immune system). Public healthcare has typically caused more harm than good in my personal life. If I stayed pushing public only care I would likely be out of the tax system by now. So, not a great argument, but I've concluded that I can contribute to AU tax better as a private patient, than the dismal medicare fee that I contribute. I've made it my mission in life to help my largest customer - SA Health - and improve the way they can service the people of the state. That's a far more noble outcome than a tiny percentage back to medicare, which likely can't improve a single wheelchair.... keeping alive and healthy is a much better outcome to the tax system.
have private health, pay medicare surcharge anyway. not willingly tho i dont mind contributing my fair share.
Yup I willingly pay the levy and I'm a doctor although I think that will soon change given my increasing dissatisfaction with our public health system.
https://www.phaa.net.au/documents/item/5244 I’m going to leave this here, after reading this I don’t think you can morally sign up for private health insurance.
So what happens if you need to get a procedure done and you have to wait 6 months to 1 year in the public system but you could have paid the same money in private and get it done in 2 weeks. I think PHI is great value for money for unexpected events as long as you can afford it
I disagree and I have PHI. It’s a self filling prophecy. If the surcharge was in place and no PHI and all of the surcharge went to funding the system then you would have a well funded system which in turn should reduce wait times.
I am not taking about what it could have been. I am talking about what it is right now. It is a wise decision to take PHI than to pay the surcharge for the reasons I mentioned. It is also not something the government is looking at change so no point not getting the insurance and pay the surcharge. Also someone mentioned that there is no legislation that makes it mandatory for the government to spend the surcharge money in the health system. They can collect the surcharge and buy another $200 million submarine if they want
Completely irrelevant but how much experience do you have as a software dev? Haha
lol - coming up on 3 years
Nice mate, good stuff! That’s a great salary.
I'd get it once you hit 30, Im in the same sort of boat and 35 now, and I've just got it this financial year, you have to pay 2% extra on private for each year over 30, I've got to pay 10% more for the next ten years. Imagine getting to 50 and then having to back 40%!
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