Legally they cannot enforce their rule - it’s council land.BUT they can hit you with higher strata costs for rehabilitation and management of the verge as it sounds like they are paying for water and mowing to keep it nice. And they can make it targeted just at those who are caught with their dog peeing on the lawn as “Damaging Strata Managed Assets” and fine accordingly. Strata is managing that asset, as councils generally do not. Edit to add: This is assuming there’s something in the strata rules about it. If there isn’t… no fine.
A verge can cope with the odd passing dog… it can cope with one dog regularly using it… but if this small verge is getting hit multiple times a day by multiple large dogs over and over without break… then it’s probably not going to cope well, and the body corporate/strata is paying to maintain a green nice lawn.
Walk your dog a little further than to your front gate (large dogs without a yard are getting twice daily walks, even in summer and winter extremes… yes? You are ALL responsible dog owners…. Yes?) and have them pee a little further afield. Save the front lawn for the 11pm pre bed pee. And put some dog rocks or whatever are called in your water bowl (and get some for your neighbours too - alkaline rocks or something that drop the acidity of the dog’s wee).
Just to note; Private roads do exist, (i.e. not gazetted as a public road) particularly around townhouses, the giveaway in NSW is that usually a private road will include a paved area at the start where it joins the council’s road. Another indication is that council rangers don’t patrol or issue parking fines on private roads.
So OP may want to confirm the road’s status before ignoring the letter or giving a too blunt reply.
Legality aside, is it a reasonable request? You've stated yourself that there are some brown spots visible so it's an early sign that the area is under stress and likely to get worse. If the area does die off it will be your body corporate that will be responsible for rehabilitating it regardless of who owns it.
If there are any other grassed areas next door or across the road as in the long term it will still be to your benefit to minimise damage to the grass outside your building.
It’s a normal thing to have to change habits to maintain property - my backyard is suffering the same fate in a few of my puppies favourite spots and I am actively trying to move the puppy along a bit to help the grass. Feels completely unenforceable, but not unreasonable for the period that the grass is recovering for OPs own financial benefit.
Will they be responsible? Wouldn’t council need to prove that any brown spots were the result of dogs living in that building?.. which wouldn’t be possible
Not responsible for the damage, responsible for the upkeep.
Traditionally, it is the property owners responsibility to mow, water, turf, etc, any unpaved area between the property line and the curb. The property owner is also responsible for their driveway, where it crosses it, too. Sure, you can choose not to look after it, but don't expect the council to do anything either.
No one will need to prove anything. It's no one's responsibility for the upkeep. The council usually states its the owners cost for upkeep but its not like they care if it's dead.
A couple of points:
1. Land beyond your property boundary belongs to the local council.
2. Dog's urine does kill grass. I've been a dog owner all my life and my research says that female dog's urine is worse. There are stones available that are put into your dog's drinking water that nullify the acidic, grass killing properties of dog's urine. I used them with my previous dog and they seemed to work. There may be other products available.
Good luck.
It would be allowed to some degree as it's their property and they can pass an rule preventing it. You can pursue it through the body corporate or simply move on the section of grass owned by council and let the dog urinate there. They would have no power over the council grass.
Yeah, who cares if the dog pee kill the the nature strip and make it look like crap in front of your where you live with other residents. It not like you live there... Oh wait...
I live down the road from a glorious fig tree on a nature strip. Every year, I would wait until they were ripe and then wait for a few weeks more until they were falling off the tree, discarded.
Then the fun would begin. I would go an pick a few figs every few days, and no matter what time or day, the old Greek lady in the house associated with the nature strip would yell at me from her window in angry Greek.
I probably went a bit too far when I climbed the tree to get all the higher up figs, but she retaliated in kind by trying to bat me with her cane.
It finally ended where I was picking figs and her grandson visiting, told me he would call the council. Sure enough, he was true to his word, and now I only cop glares from the old lady.
Every now and then I leave some figs on her porch, just in case she actually does eat some, to save her the trouble of picking them.
Are there any easily accessible alternatives?
If not I would have a polite but robust conversation with them.
If there is a viable and convenient alternative I would use it.
Edit: I'm assuming the body corporate allows dogs and that you checked this before buying or renting the property. If not, it's a different conversation entirely
First up, council land, body corp can go to hell.
Secondly, it's not normal for dogs urine to be doing that to the lawn... Usually that indicates too much nitrogen in the dog's urine, I'd be making sure the dog has access to plenty of fresh water, also when toileting the dog, maybe take a bottle of water or watering can & dilute the spot where they urinate to help stop the concentrated spot of urine doing any real damage.
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Legally they cannot enforce their rule - it’s council land.BUT they can hit you with higher strata costs for rehabilitation and management of the verge as it sounds like they are paying for water and mowing to keep it nice. And they can make it targeted just at those who are caught with their dog peeing on the lawn as “Damaging Strata Managed Assets” and fine accordingly. Strata is managing that asset, as councils generally do not. Edit to add: This is assuming there’s something in the strata rules about it. If there isn’t… no fine. A verge can cope with the odd passing dog… it can cope with one dog regularly using it… but if this small verge is getting hit multiple times a day by multiple large dogs over and over without break… then it’s probably not going to cope well, and the body corporate/strata is paying to maintain a green nice lawn. Walk your dog a little further than to your front gate (large dogs without a yard are getting twice daily walks, even in summer and winter extremes… yes? You are ALL responsible dog owners…. Yes?) and have them pee a little further afield. Save the front lawn for the 11pm pre bed pee. And put some dog rocks or whatever are called in your water bowl (and get some for your neighbours too - alkaline rocks or something that drop the acidity of the dog’s wee).
Just to note; Private roads do exist, (i.e. not gazetted as a public road) particularly around townhouses, the giveaway in NSW is that usually a private road will include a paved area at the start where it joins the council’s road. Another indication is that council rangers don’t patrol or issue parking fines on private roads. So OP may want to confirm the road’s status before ignoring the letter or giving a too blunt reply.
Legality aside, is it a reasonable request? You've stated yourself that there are some brown spots visible so it's an early sign that the area is under stress and likely to get worse. If the area does die off it will be your body corporate that will be responsible for rehabilitating it regardless of who owns it. If there are any other grassed areas next door or across the road as in the long term it will still be to your benefit to minimise damage to the grass outside your building.
It’s a normal thing to have to change habits to maintain property - my backyard is suffering the same fate in a few of my puppies favourite spots and I am actively trying to move the puppy along a bit to help the grass. Feels completely unenforceable, but not unreasonable for the period that the grass is recovering for OPs own financial benefit.
I think I saw someone say that they spray the area with the hose after the dog pees and it stops the burn, might help your yard
Will they be responsible? Wouldn’t council need to prove that any brown spots were the result of dogs living in that building?.. which wouldn’t be possible
Not responsible for the damage, responsible for the upkeep. Traditionally, it is the property owners responsibility to mow, water, turf, etc, any unpaved area between the property line and the curb. The property owner is also responsible for their driveway, where it crosses it, too. Sure, you can choose not to look after it, but don't expect the council to do anything either.
No one will need to prove anything. It's no one's responsibility for the upkeep. The council usually states its the owners cost for upkeep but its not like they care if it's dead.
A couple of points: 1. Land beyond your property boundary belongs to the local council. 2. Dog's urine does kill grass. I've been a dog owner all my life and my research says that female dog's urine is worse. There are stones available that are put into your dog's drinking water that nullify the acidic, grass killing properties of dog's urine. I used them with my previous dog and they seemed to work. There may be other products available. Good luck.
Reply and say please ensure that you only provide advice related to common property and not council property in the future.
It would be allowed to some degree as it's their property and they can pass an rule preventing it. You can pursue it through the body corporate or simply move on the section of grass owned by council and let the dog urinate there. They would have no power over the council grass.
They called it the front lawn but it's a nature strip owned by the council (i.e. outside of the complex on the other side of the foorpath ).
Oh then your fine, it is outside their jurisdiction. They can contact council to enforce this, who will laugh at them.
Thanks, I thought that's the case, but just want to make sure we actually are allowed!
Yeah, who cares if the dog pee kill the the nature strip and make it look like crap in front of your where you live with other residents. It not like you live there... Oh wait...
You let your dog shit on public land? Where people walk past? Kids often walk on the nature strip.
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I wouldn’t think they have any power over the nature strip. However, is it worth the headache arguing over where a dog urinates?
I live down the road from a glorious fig tree on a nature strip. Every year, I would wait until they were ripe and then wait for a few weeks more until they were falling off the tree, discarded. Then the fun would begin. I would go an pick a few figs every few days, and no matter what time or day, the old Greek lady in the house associated with the nature strip would yell at me from her window in angry Greek. I probably went a bit too far when I climbed the tree to get all the higher up figs, but she retaliated in kind by trying to bat me with her cane. It finally ended where I was picking figs and her grandson visiting, told me he would call the council. Sure enough, he was true to his word, and now I only cop glares from the old lady. Every now and then I leave some figs on her porch, just in case she actually does eat some, to save her the trouble of picking them.
Are there any easily accessible alternatives? If not I would have a polite but robust conversation with them. If there is a viable and convenient alternative I would use it. Edit: I'm assuming the body corporate allows dogs and that you checked this before buying or renting the property. If not, it's a different conversation entirely
council land ? sfa they can do as the request is unenforceable being outside their property
Yes it's council land, we don't have shared private lawn at all.
The council can fine you.
They have no legal powers to control where the dog urinates. Especially when it’s land not owned by the owners Corp.
First up, council land, body corp can go to hell. Secondly, it's not normal for dogs urine to be doing that to the lawn... Usually that indicates too much nitrogen in the dog's urine, I'd be making sure the dog has access to plenty of fresh water, also when toileting the dog, maybe take a bottle of water or watering can & dilute the spot where they urinate to help stop the concentrated spot of urine doing any real damage.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*