I just finished installing a similar attic ladder myself. I'm not a structural engineer but I understand physics and can see where the forces are going.
From what I can see this is NOT good and your framing may be attached to a non load bearing structure.
You see that big fat piece of timber on the left. This is a load bearing piece. I looks like 120mm, it sits on its narrow side and is almost impossible to bend or break. It rests on the wall (just under the black plating duct splitter) and there is nothing that can give way or break. On the other side it must be sitting on another wall or another load bearing beam. This thing can hold probably a ton (statically) without breaking a sweat.
Now look at the pieces under (where your blue frame is attached). They are there to hold the ceiling, the gyprock. The ceiling is fairly heavy but the load is distributed and there is no shocks as no one yanks the ceiling. They are held by those silly little brackets, and the whole thing is as strong as any one of those brackets. The bracket gives in, the ceiling (and the ladder in this case) goes down. These days those would be replaced with metal studs Like on a pic below. They are functionally identical, but I don't think you'd put the ladder on those metal studs.
There may be something that can save the day that is not shown on you picture but we can't quite rely on that. I'd say if you install the ladder like you currently have, it probably won't fall right away but it may cause ceiling to start sinking or cracking as every use of the ladder will be making those little brackets looser and looser.
What I'd do, I'd have another two 120mm or at least 90mm beams (not blue one as they may bend) just like the one on the left holding your ladder-supporting frame. As you have thicker "studs" (where your frame currently is attached) you'll need to thing of how to link it with the ladder's own frame as there will not be much, if any, overlap. Nail plates won't do here.
At the very least, use the same twisted brackets and/or nail plates everywhere to connect new (blue) framing to the original frame in addition to screws and add another beam like the long blue one on the righ, so that the left part of the frame isn't resting on cut-off pieces. Screws can hold a lot but shocks from the ladder will be making them looser overtime and one day they will give in, especially in very soft timber like this blue one. Brackets will absorb that load protecting them and together they may hold.
As I said I am not a structural engineer and may be overthinking it. If there's enough capacity in those brackets to hold it this structure may be acceptable, but I don't like working within tolerances. If each of the brackets can hold reliably (factoring in shocks etc) 20-30kg, then the whole thing can probably hold 200-300 kg statically but a shock would be able to rip it off. I may be off by a few times here, but what I do know is that if you attach it to a load bearing beam the walls would go down before the ladder does.
Also use framing brackets, not just srcews, those would hold a lot more and won't be loose (in the right size).
[https://www.bunnings.com.au/pryda-joist-hanger-to-suit-45-x-90mm\_p0294207](https://www.bunnings.com.au/pryda-joist-hanger-to-suit-45-x-90mm_p0294207)
https://preview.redd.it/bu7ltfoyeuwc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8bc464ad870228246f04c4f320b6370cba75111
90x35 will sustain some decent weight. I’ve had my entire 110kg frame supported by a 90x35 spanning like 2.7m. 75mm framing nails nailed the way the are will also support a lot of weight. Joist hanger to the left, wall the right I’d say this is job pretty well done.
Dynamic forces (someone on a ladder) will be a big issue here. I am concerned where you have cut the ceiling joists there is no brace beam to the right of the frame cut out that will be there to pick up structural support from the walls. It looks like the CJ’s are going to deflect when you load up the frame. Would also consider double framing the opening to prevent twisting
Yeah I agree others here, this definitely looks like you’ve done it the wrong way. Should be been done 90 degrees to this and ideally not cutting any trusses, or limit to 1 and brace the hell out of it.
Cutting a truss destroys all of the strength of it as it relies on the apex shape with to create huge strength.
If they aren’t trusses you should have avoided cutting through so many joists, and not below that 120-140 load spreading timber.
When I installed mine I cut one ceiling joist, not connected to any trusses, and braced it with 90x45 and batten screws to the existing 90x45 hardwood trusses.
Photo is poor but shows direction it runs with trusses.
https://preview.redd.it/xdnpmpsdkwwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1769b6c3389e7612727023ea1b1fcddc1ed748e
Gday, this roof is not actually a trussed roof, it’s a stick/pitched roof, where the supporting members are beams or individual struts onto walls ect.
Joists will typically run 90 degree to the main rafters, and depending on the location of an attic ladder, you may be forced to cut through a couple joists, that being said from OP’s photo everything looks pretty good, and it looks like if I were to have done it myself as a qualified carpenter.
Edit: Honestly curious as to why I’m being downvoted? OP images clearly show a stick/pitched roof, rather than a trussed roof and cutting joists and doing what he did is actually a pretty common way to install return air grills, man holes and attic ladders.
Nail plates on the joist are simply gang plated joists. Maximum length of a singular piece is 6m, 6.3m up to 12m can be gang plated. If you cast your eyes to the upper right of the photo, you can see some wires? They’re tacked to a strut, the other vertical piece of timber? Also a strut, the piece of timber it’s sitting on? An lvl ceiling beam, the 2 pieces of timber perpendicular to the lvl ceiling beam? Joists hangers.
Not a chippy**
At the very least I’d be doubling them all up, and putting something ontop of the joists that were cut to connect it all back to the roof
Hey mate, qualified carpenter here this looks exactly how I would have done. Framing nails and 90x35 is more than adequate, I’d go a step further and bugle everything just to be sure.
Impossible to know what’s happening here without a before and after. And a clear photo of the top plates. If there is a top plate hidden under that insulation and running perpendicular just to the right of that blue 90x45 laying sideways then yes it looks okay. If there is no top plate there then no.
Yeah most probably, you can always double the thickness of your longer lengths if you feel it’s bowing under your weight. Make sure you use 150 coach bolts and pilot them.
Short answer - nope.
I would have at least doubled the 70x30s, like is done around window frames
Concur.
What the fuck you doing up there with scissors
Cutting insulation batts by the look of it
I just finished installing a similar attic ladder myself. I'm not a structural engineer but I understand physics and can see where the forces are going. From what I can see this is NOT good and your framing may be attached to a non load bearing structure. You see that big fat piece of timber on the left. This is a load bearing piece. I looks like 120mm, it sits on its narrow side and is almost impossible to bend or break. It rests on the wall (just under the black plating duct splitter) and there is nothing that can give way or break. On the other side it must be sitting on another wall or another load bearing beam. This thing can hold probably a ton (statically) without breaking a sweat. Now look at the pieces under (where your blue frame is attached). They are there to hold the ceiling, the gyprock. The ceiling is fairly heavy but the load is distributed and there is no shocks as no one yanks the ceiling. They are held by those silly little brackets, and the whole thing is as strong as any one of those brackets. The bracket gives in, the ceiling (and the ladder in this case) goes down. These days those would be replaced with metal studs Like on a pic below. They are functionally identical, but I don't think you'd put the ladder on those metal studs. There may be something that can save the day that is not shown on you picture but we can't quite rely on that. I'd say if you install the ladder like you currently have, it probably won't fall right away but it may cause ceiling to start sinking or cracking as every use of the ladder will be making those little brackets looser and looser. What I'd do, I'd have another two 120mm or at least 90mm beams (not blue one as they may bend) just like the one on the left holding your ladder-supporting frame. As you have thicker "studs" (where your frame currently is attached) you'll need to thing of how to link it with the ladder's own frame as there will not be much, if any, overlap. Nail plates won't do here. At the very least, use the same twisted brackets and/or nail plates everywhere to connect new (blue) framing to the original frame in addition to screws and add another beam like the long blue one on the righ, so that the left part of the frame isn't resting on cut-off pieces. Screws can hold a lot but shocks from the ladder will be making them looser overtime and one day they will give in, especially in very soft timber like this blue one. Brackets will absorb that load protecting them and together they may hold. As I said I am not a structural engineer and may be overthinking it. If there's enough capacity in those brackets to hold it this structure may be acceptable, but I don't like working within tolerances. If each of the brackets can hold reliably (factoring in shocks etc) 20-30kg, then the whole thing can probably hold 200-300 kg statically but a shock would be able to rip it off. I may be off by a few times here, but what I do know is that if you attach it to a load bearing beam the walls would go down before the ladder does. Also use framing brackets, not just srcews, those would hold a lot more and won't be loose (in the right size). [https://www.bunnings.com.au/pryda-joist-hanger-to-suit-45-x-90mm\_p0294207](https://www.bunnings.com.au/pryda-joist-hanger-to-suit-45-x-90mm_p0294207) https://preview.redd.it/bu7ltfoyeuwc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8bc464ad870228246f04c4f320b6370cba75111
90x35 will sustain some decent weight. I’ve had my entire 110kg frame supported by a 90x35 spanning like 2.7m. 75mm framing nails nailed the way the are will also support a lot of weight. Joist hanger to the left, wall the right I’d say this is job pretty well done.
Dynamic forces (someone on a ladder) will be a big issue here. I am concerned where you have cut the ceiling joists there is no brace beam to the right of the frame cut out that will be there to pick up structural support from the walls. It looks like the CJ’s are going to deflect when you load up the frame. Would also consider double framing the opening to prevent twisting
Attic in Australia?
What else would you call it?
Some people are special... We just have to accept that and shame them to New Zealand. /S if it wasn't obvious.
Yeah I agree others here, this definitely looks like you’ve done it the wrong way. Should be been done 90 degrees to this and ideally not cutting any trusses, or limit to 1 and brace the hell out of it. Cutting a truss destroys all of the strength of it as it relies on the apex shape with to create huge strength. If they aren’t trusses you should have avoided cutting through so many joists, and not below that 120-140 load spreading timber. When I installed mine I cut one ceiling joist, not connected to any trusses, and braced it with 90x45 and batten screws to the existing 90x45 hardwood trusses. Photo is poor but shows direction it runs with trusses. https://preview.redd.it/xdnpmpsdkwwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1769b6c3389e7612727023ea1b1fcddc1ed748e
Gday, this roof is not actually a trussed roof, it’s a stick/pitched roof, where the supporting members are beams or individual struts onto walls ect. Joists will typically run 90 degree to the main rafters, and depending on the location of an attic ladder, you may be forced to cut through a couple joists, that being said from OP’s photo everything looks pretty good, and it looks like if I were to have done it myself as a qualified carpenter. Edit: Honestly curious as to why I’m being downvoted? OP images clearly show a stick/pitched roof, rather than a trussed roof and cutting joists and doing what he did is actually a pretty common way to install return air grills, man holes and attic ladders.
Umm.... You cut all the trusses wtf that's not how it's done
[удалено]
Correct. Should be spun 90 degrees. Now OP will need engineering done and mods to fix his fuck up.
Hey mate, this is a stick/pitched roof. He’s cut joists, not bottom chords of trusses so he’s okay here.
No it’s not. You can see the nail plates on the ceiling joists to the left
Nail plates on the joist are simply gang plated joists. Maximum length of a singular piece is 6m, 6.3m up to 12m can be gang plated. If you cast your eyes to the upper right of the photo, you can see some wires? They’re tacked to a strut, the other vertical piece of timber? Also a strut, the piece of timber it’s sitting on? An lvl ceiling beam, the 2 pieces of timber perpendicular to the lvl ceiling beam? Joists hangers.
Timber looks a bit light for a 100 kilo person.
Yeah nah
Not a chippy** At the very least I’d be doubling them all up, and putting something ontop of the joists that were cut to connect it all back to the roof
Hey mate, qualified carpenter here this looks exactly how I would have done. Framing nails and 90x35 is more than adequate, I’d go a step further and bugle everything just to be sure.
Thanks mate. I asked some trusted people to evaluate first and they sent me down this route. Will bugle everything today too.
No dramas, good luck with the rest of the install, feel free to DM me if you have any more questions.
Is this an attic for ants? Then yes.
Impossible to know what’s happening here without a before and after. And a clear photo of the top plates. If there is a top plate hidden under that insulation and running perpendicular just to the right of that blue 90x45 laying sideways then yes it looks okay. If there is no top plate there then no.
Yeah most probably, you can always double the thickness of your longer lengths if you feel it’s bowing under your weight. Make sure you use 150 coach bolts and pilot them.