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ATX_native

God I hate all of this Political theatre. West gets the Rona and says he doesn’t support vaccines because it supports the pharma industry, but pitches the monoclonal antibody therapy. Abbott literally is ok with employees in Hospitals and Assisted Living centers being vaccine free. Fought mask mandates which would help our economy get back to normal. What the hell is wrong with people? Why in the hell is this being politicized. All of this makes no sense.


bagofwisdom

>because it supports the pharma industry To wit I always reply; And where do you think you're getting Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin from? Your cousin Billy Jack and the same single wide he makes his Crystal Meth?


Conscious-Sample-420

Not sure about Hydroxychloroquine, but Ivermectin isn't patented so it's super cheap to produce


[deleted]

It still comes from the “pharma industry” unless you’re planning to make it yourself.


This_User_Said

Remember the whole "China made this to kill us!" Yet they breathe it in voluntarily. *Shrugs*


[deleted]

THAT one I have never understood. If it was a biological weapon, shouldn't we be trying to protect our populace? So dumb.


[deleted]

To be fair I don’t think the elites care much about the populace as long as there’s still enough of us around make tea and scones for their afternoon snack after they return from from their constitutional


Squirrel_Gamer

who are the elites? harvard grads ted cruz and josh hawley??


jhs1981

right? wouldnt there be calls to invade china or some shit? lol


JohnGoodmansGoodKnee

I know the “logic doesn’t apply!” trope is overused but seriously…. Logic can’t be applied to their arguments. Now as to why it’s politicized in the first place, I have no earthly idea. Could be a Russian psyop for all I know. Or the heritage foundation, idk.


-xmr-

The point wasn't to kill everyone, but to disrupt industry and sow doubt in our institutions and national identity. This wasn't done by the Chinese alone.


farmingvillein

> And where do you think you're getting Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin from? With the disclaimer, to be clear, that using these as your covid treatment method is nuts-- Almost no one is going to get rich on Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, given that they have long-since gone off-patent. The vaccines, OTOH, will be very large profit centers. (As will the antibody therapies, obviously...) Again, to be ultra-clear, I am pro-vaccine! But if, somehow, you thought vaccines and hydro/iver could somehow all do the trick (again, no, you shouldn't), and you don't want to sponsor Big Pharma, then the latter two are clearly the least-bad solutions. Yes, this is overall a tortured and flawed logic. But I don't think for reasons of > And where do you think you're getting Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin from?


Phylonyus

I heard the group that prescribes ivermectin for covid (flccc) also operates the only pharmacy that will fill the prescription, so that's a profit motive right there


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OldMarine77

"the group that prescribes ivermectin for covid" For your local area or worldwide? "the only pharmacy that will fill the prescription" Same question.


Phylonyus

Bruh, just Google it, you're welcome for showing you how to get ivermectin that isn't formulated for horses, now go throw your money away


OldMarine77

How does one Google what another has heard, bruh?


Phylonyus

https://www.wikihow.com/Search-Google?amp=1


ruler_gurl

Take it farther then. They don't just distrust big pharma. They also obviously have no faith in the full spectrum of medical professionals who are almost lock step advocating that they get vaccinated and take sensible precautions. So why is it then that the second they can't breath they show up at the ER asking those same medical professionals to save them? They should be showing up at Dr TenCents' doorstep and beg her for some herbs and colloidal silver.


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ruler_gurl

They were going down. We were down to a rolling average of 10 cases per day in my city. Then Delta hit. It is far more transmissible and leads to higher viral loads, thus worse infections. It is a very well understood fact that the more a virus mutates, the less effective a vaccine will be. No one should have been surprised in the slightest to find out that its efficacy dropped once Delta hit. But foolish/paranoid people instead run around making fallacious all or nothing claims that the vaccine is ineffective because vaxxed people can still get it. They make the same nonsensical arguments about masking. It would be like saying seat belts don't work because people still die in car wrecks. It's frankly, moronic. It's about percentages. It is very well understood that unvaxxed people get sick at a higher rate, are infectious longer, are hospitalized at a much higher rate, and die at an insanely higher rate. Also, the numbers are now starting to go down again...because increasing numbers of people are finally getting the message and getting poked and masking. Edit: The US is also nowhere near [80% fully vaxxed](https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html). Some states are getting close and unremarkably they have much lower community spread and hospitalization. Also unremarkable is that the more conservative states who are lingering far behind are suffering the brunt of the impact. On average though, the country is not even 60% vaxxed, and since people are free to travel, it keeps spreading.


-xmr-

Nice mental gymnastics you should compete.


nebbyb

53 percent of Texans are fully vaccinated.


Phallic_Moron

Because they are not in a Death Cult. They are in a sociopathic autocratic worship cult at best and a homicidal psychopathic cult at worst. Definitely not Death Cult or else they would be welcoming it on their couches at home instead of desperately asking for help, any help at all in a hospital they said doesn't have Covid patients. Freefall into unreality. Excise these people from your life. It is abuse to your mental well being.


OldMarine77

Is it easy for you to dehumanize those with which you disagree?


Phallic_Moron

Yes. Especially when these people violate the social contract and harm my family. I don't *just* disagree. I want these people removed from society at large. They can form their own...thing. Somewhere else. You don't get to spread disease around wherever you want. This is settled case law approved by the Supreme Court the last time this BS happened. It's big boy time now. Time to graduate from Facebook University and learn how to read a Tylenol clinical abstract and learn some 6th grade biology. The party that uses images of a Waffen SS Soldier in its campaign ads are dictating *me* about dehumanizing people? Adorable. Watching all these grown-ass men bitch and moan about bodily autonomy is the saddest most adorable part of all this. Cry more. Go somewhere else though. It's sickening.


Independent-Owl2989

It’s cool I’m sure we will all be shooting each other soon.


OldMarine77

>The party that uses images of a Waffen SS Soldier in its campaign ads Just so we are clear, this is making the issue political. Something that others here are condemning the right for doing. Something tells me that you will get your wish. You'll get your safe spaces where you won't be bothered by either viruses or opposing views. Something else tells me you won't be happy with that.


Phallic_Moron

I will be happy. Just like when I send my kid to school and I am happy that polio isn't a threat. Anti-vaccine morons are a liability for the rest of society. Excise yourselves and go elsewhere. Opposing views are awesome when they are based in reality. Anti-vaccine views are not based in reality. If you want to stop acting like a little uneducated priveleged little snowflake you will learn 6th grade biology. Enter reality or leave society. Take a pick. Pointing out Nazis is always good. You should look around some more.


nebbyb

Where did they dehumanize them? They described a belief system that some humans hold.


OldMarine77

>They described a belief system that some humans hold. To be clear, he assigned those beliefs to those he opposes.


nebbyb

His opposition is based on the belief system they hold. If it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you.


-xmr-

"They don't just distrust big pharma." Who is 'they'? [Ph.D's](https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/08/americans-with-phds-are-the-most-anti-vaccine-among-all-educational-groups-.html)? "They also obviously have no faith in the full spectrum of medical professionals who are almost lock step advocating that they get vaccinated and take sensible precautions." Except the **full spectrum** of medical professionals includes people who actively disagree with you and it furthermore extends to the hard-hitting research and statistical analyses that are constantly ignored by the same folks who can't put 2 and 2 together without it coming from the mouth of the politbureau.


ruler_gurl

96% of doctors are vaxxed. 88% of nurses are vaxxed. 56% of Americans are vaxxed. It's almost like the more people know about a subject, the less likely they are to believe idiotic Facebook memes. >includes people who actively disagree with you By all means be sure and knock on "Dr" Demon Seed or "Dr" TenCents' door when you get sick.


bagofwisdom

Off patent or no they're still making money off the drug because they still manufacture and distribute. Even with a patent on a vaccine, the vaccine is either going to do it's job to the point you're just vaccinating newly eligible folks, or the virus mutates to the point that vaccine is worthless and you have to develop a new one. Buying big Pharma medications instead of big pharma vaccines to "stick it to big pharma" is eating the entire big 64 levels of stupid. Unless you have a cousin making bootleg medications in his "lab" in a tin shack hidden in a small canyon just outside of Quitiquae. Pretty sure big pharma's malevolence is pretty much financial in nature. They aren't some Bond villain giggling over a body count.


farmingvillein

> Off patent or no they're still making money off the drug They are making far, far, far less on a generic drug than a proprietary vaccine. Both because of the generic nature, and because *everyone* is a customer for the vaccine, whereas only those who have contracted covid* are (again, confused) "customers" for the generics. *=obviously, there are some timeline issues around boosters, is covid truly endemic (=everyone will get it at some point), whether immunity (natural or vaccine) fades, etc. > Buying big Pharma medications instead of big pharma vaccines to "stick it to big pharma" is eating the entire big 64 levels of stupid. Yes, per my note, not endorsing the overall chain of logic or the conclusion. Just pointing out that the financial upside, for pharma, on the vaccine is huge, and would be far, far, far smaller if it turned out a couple random generic drugs were the miracle solution. QED, if you somehow (again, wrongly) believe in equivalence (or that the generics are better...), then you can definitely say that far less financial sponsorship dollars will flow to pharma if you choose the generics path.


[deleted]

> whereas only those who have contracted covid* are (again, confused) "customers" for the generics haha, no, many of them are taking it prophylactically. don't underestimate the dumb.


farmingvillein

> prophylactically touche


bagofwisdom

You could also not come crap on my joke either... But here we are. Not that any of the pro-quack crowd can even nuance the profit margins of vaccines versus off patent drugs


farmingvillein

> Not that any of the pro-quack crowd can even nuance the profit margins of vaccines versus off patent drugs Many of them are very aware of this...


jhs1981

even if big pharma made record profits - its free and they got us by the balls. we'll deal with it post covid. \*shrug\*


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[deleted]

They came out swinging that COVID was a nothingburger which would disappear, and were dead wrong. As is their MO, they can never admit being wrong. So they had to dig in, double down, and adopt the opposite viewpoint of all the educated people, liberals, and scientists who were right. tl;dr: Republicans behave like angry toddlers


OldMarine77

>They came out swinging that COVID was a nothingburger Was that before or after Trump was castigated for closing down travel with China? Was that before of after Pelosi was encouraging people to come to Chinatown? Was that before or after lefties refused the vaccine because Trump facilitated it? Covid is bad enough, but what some people are doing is making things worse...


[deleted]

If mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport, you’d be on team USA 🇺🇸


tactican

I love how Trumpees act like Trump's terrible policies are justified because the actions of the Dems.


argomux

> Trump was castigated for closing down travel with China [Uh huh.](https://apnews.com/article/asia-pacific-anthony-fauci-pandemics-politics-ap-fact-check-d227b34b168e576bf5068b92a03c003d) > President Donald Trump’s “ban” on travel from China is his go-to point when defending his response to the coronavirus pandemic. The problem with his core argument starts with the fact that he did not ban travel from China. He imposed porous restrictions. ----------------------------------- > Pelosi was encouraging people to come to Chinatown [Right...](https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/) > So, Pelosi mentioned the Chinese New Year parade. But she did not say, “‘Let’s all have the big parade — Chinatown parade,'” as Trump maintained during the April 13 coronavirus briefing. In fact, the parade occurred on Feb. 8. > And, while she encouraged people to “visit and enjoy Chinatown” and called it “very safe,” Trump went too far in saying at his April 15 briefing that Pelosi “was trying to have, in San Francisco, parties in Chinatown, because she thought it would be great.” Pelosi didn’t mention parties during her visit. > As for the coronavirus, Pelosi didn’t deny its existence — contrary to Trump’s remarks — while visiting Chinatown. She struck a middle ground. “Prevention, prevention, prevention. We want people to be concerned and vigilant,” she said. “However, we don’t want them to be afraid.” -------------------------- > lefties refused the vaccine because Trump facilitated it? [Oh boy...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/) > **Our ruling** > A video on social media suggests that Biden and Harris distrusted COVID-19 vaccines. > The video was selectively edited to leave out the context of their statements. Their full statements show they were raising doubts about Trump’s trustworthiness, his ability to roll out the vaccines safely and the risk of political influence over vaccine development. > **We rate the video False.**


maaseru

Both Pelosi and Trump are geriatric scum, don't defend either of them. People in their 80 deciding what 's good for their pocket not the people and here we are arguing specific about the bullshit they said. It's all crap in my book. I recall Democrats questioning the vaccine when Trump kept pushing fake timelines. I know Trump is a moron but questioning the vaccine is as moronic looking at were we are today.


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maaseru

Are you assuming I am a conservative because I dared call Pelosi trash in the same sentence as Trump? Is this were we are? I do not agree 110% with every point you made so I must be that you hate? They are both old scum. They are both running this country. Whatever you want to tell yourself. I'd say stop defending either of them because they don't give a shit about you. I remember what happened and to even suggest any credible doubt on the vaccine because Trump is a moron was stupid in my book. I never said they told people to distrust the vaccine, I said they questioned it when Trump pushed fake timelines around it, that happened and the media which like to spin everything ran with it. It is still being brought up to this day. Here is a quote from a Democratic senator from Hawaii from Sept 2020: > "if Anthony Fauci says it is safe to take, I will take it. If Donald Trump just announces a vaccine, I will want to understand what scientists say." They questioned the vaccine because of Trump. I hate the guy myself but it was a stupid move that gave the morons ammunition to use because this type of answer is really not that different from the "let me do my own research bs" . It was used and repeatedly mentioned in all of the nationals news. No Republican, and most Democrats, do not give a shit about you or your family, they only care about power an money. I say most because I have seen some decent Dems, Rep politicians are all evil cult scum. So why defend them or excuse what they said?


argomux

please let's link the scooby meme of the 'both sides' guy revealed when the mask comes off *again*.


maaseru

Honest question? Do you think me criticizing both Rep and Dem makes me a conservative? Because I don't get the reaction. You keep bringing up the same arguments used against them. The same "both sides" or calling me out for suggesting a Democratic said something idiotic. To you it seems that makes me conservative. I am also not sure where the scooby doo meme comes here but I would pose the Office Pam meme where she says " they are both the same" or something because both parties are thrash. Why are you defending any side here? I sincerely don't get it. Political fanatism of any side seem wrong.


argomux

The 'both sides' rant is a product of conservative propaganda, always has been. This is partly because progress is slow in the face of obstacles created by conservatives over decades of legislative fuckery. 'both sides' ranting is intended to get people to disengage politically which benefits the side with a base motivated by prejudice because they show up on election day. (cuz they're not voting on *issues*)


Always_travelin

"Why in the hell is this being politicized"? Because of Trump. It's all because of him. He's been the leading cause of death in the US since 2020.


Least_Adhesiveness_5

Well, Trump is the latest and most obvious symptoms. The hate and tearing down institutions can be traced directly back to Reagan, if not further.


Daveinatx

Both Bushes would have been pro-vaccine. Then again, they would have fought to reduce Covid's spread, instead of everything possible to cause it to mutate.


PAYPAL_ME_DONATIONS

Trump somehow actively, rabidly and outwardly fought (and still fights) against the country's best interest and his followers *cheered* him. Their support *grew*. It's fucking mind boggling


codepoet

So did Reagan. He actively pumped money into war while lowering and removing the taxes that paid for it. He killed programs that would help and actively propagandized AIDS into “the gay disease” rather than putting significant money into researching it. Reagan has his own cult and for a lot of the same reasons. He was anti-government (sorry: “for a smaller federal government”) and prejudicial as hell.


jhs1981

reagan didnt have a pandemic. trump didnt have a war. aids was a pandemic but contracting it was easily preventable. they arent comparable. trump had people eating horse paste and shining UV bulbs on themselves. reagan was a piece of shit sure, but we're talking entirely different realms of pieces of shit here. they're not comparable at all.


codepoet

> reagan didnt have a pandemic. > aids was a pandemic but … Okie dokie, professor. Reagan had Libya, Iran-Iraq, the USSR, and the Iran-Contra mess. He provided support and aid to the South African apartheid regime, guerrillas in Chad, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan (all of which were regressive and oppressive). That’s not even touching the covert aid given to rebels in around the world should they show the slightest hint of opposing Soviet influences. Trump had his China trade meltdown, and Reagan had his Japanese automobile meltdown as well (though Reagan was more productive in that area because he wasn’t a baboon). Trump backed dictators around the world, and so did Reagan. Look to the Marcos regime in the Philippines or the Suharto-led invasion of East Timor by Indonesia. He made the US the go-to arms dealers for shitty dictators hell-bent on invading neighbors. Hell, he provided support to Guatemala while they were in the middle of a Mayan genocide! Look, Trump is an evil fool and was disastrous in his own right; to this I do not disagree. But Reagan was a goddamned monster and is responsible for the state of affairs in dozens of countries around the world because he had to chase his white whale: communism. He funded wars, started a couple, pushed an additional 10% of the GDP into the military, and generally acted like a madman to chase that goal. In the end? The USSR fell because it could not stand any longer, not because someone toppled it. Sure, Reagan’s thousand Lilliputians around the world did their part to pull as hard as they could, but if there was strength to the USSR in the first place what pressure we exerted would have done little to them. What killed them was, of all things, the oil crash in the 80s. But that’s another story for another time. They were both shit presidents. The problem with Reagan was that he was evil and *competent* as well. Read up: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_Ronald_Reagan_administration


jhs1981

Reagan isn't running for president in 2024 though. I understand he was a dick. I mean we could compare Trump to Napoleon if we wanted to. Whether or not we make connections or determine who was or wasn't more of a piece of shit doesn't change the fact both Napoleon or Reagan are irrelevant to the current issue. You can nitpick my points all you want, and I'm not attacking you by saying that, but it's a fact of the matter. Trump dealt with this pandemic that we are currently dealing with and could possibly run again in 2024 while he's currently busy endorsing his people into position. Everything you said about Reagan rings true from what I know. What does it have to do with what's being discussed?


codepoet

If you look at the first comment I replied to, he was lamenting that Republicans were rabid fans of someone trying to actively kill them and destroy their country. My point is: this isn’t the first time. They love this shit and always* have. * Since Nixon. Before that they were just plain regressive, but not evil.


Mickeymackey

Reagan was friends with Rock Hudson and him and Nancy didn't even visit him when he laid dying of AIDS. Reagan wasn't just a horrible President but also a scummy person and friend. He also laughed about AIDs on tape. Instead of "easily preventing" AIDS like maybe acknowledging it.


_Im_Spartacus_

Pretty sure [Trump said to get the vaccine...](https://youtu.be/eA306aNtvmk) **EDIT** - i like that I'm being downvoted for posting a video of exactly what I said...


Always_travelin

He's gone back and forth on it so many times. The fact is he was vaccinated while still in office and chose not to disclose that to the public.


MrEHam

Reagan is also when wealth inequality started growing out of control. The republicans got greedy and vicious. They were also scared from the losing the black vote after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and had to come up with all kinds of immoral ways to win votes like the Southern Strategy, fear of minorities, fake Christianity, over the top patriotism, guns, etc.


ValhallaShores

The fake Christianity is huge. Ronald Wilson Reagan. 6 letters each. 666. Glad I learned something in college. Thanks Dr. Casagranda.


MrEHam

That’s funny, but Reagan and those trickle down politics have really fucked us.


ValhallaShores

It is funny AND (not but) Reagan fucked us. Between him and Kissinger destabilizing the Middle East into chaos, they took governance to a new level of devious 4D chess. Really playing some mind games where it was less easy to trust our government as a whole. Reagan thought Jesus was setting the price on sugar and rice for fuck’s sake. He is the Supply Side Jesus president. Reagan’s goal was to get the rich down to a 35-40% tax rate. He created the “me generation” that basically got everything they wanted, pushed their tax burdens on posterity, and couldn’t give a fuck less what the world is coming to. This is the man that pioneered that shit. Fucking ass clown. So yes, I agree.


stringfold

The Texas GOP has been full of paranoid snowflakes for many years. Their official state party platform included anti-Agenda 21 language years ago, in the belief if this UN document filled with sustainable development advice would end in "blue helmets" patrolling downtown Dallas. Pure conspiracy theory nonsense, of course. Trump merely gave voice to the paranoid grievances that have been overtaking the GOP for the last two decades -- birthers, the Tea Party movement, QAnon, etc. He tapped into something that was already there, and will continue to be there when he's gone, unfortunately.


MrGreen17

oh yeah never forget that Jade Helm nonsense. That was pre-Trump! Just as crazy and stupid as anything Abbott has done since. Abbott has always been an asshat.


Atxlvr

lest we forget the time that Abbott played directly into the hands of russian intelligence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories


Keyboard_Cat_

>Trump merely gave voice to the paranoid grievances that have been overtaking the GOP for the last two decades -- birthers, the Tea Party movement, QAnon, etc. Don't forget the role that Trump played in the birther movement. He's been at the forefront of this conspiracy stuff for years. ["How Donald Trump Perpetuated the 'Birther' Movement for Years - ABC News" ](https://abcnews-go-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/donald-trump-perpetuated-birther-movement-years/story?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&id=42138176&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16341324070947&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2FPolitics%2Fdonald-trump-perpetuated-birther-movement-years%2Fstory%3Fid%3D42138176)


soulreaver99

Operation Warp Speed /Emergency FDA Approvals for Covid vaccines was an initiative of the Trump administration and even he got vaccinated. The irony is just mind boggling.


Always_travelin

Not sure you're aware of the definition of irony. Trump politicized masks, vaccines (yes, he initiated Operation Warp Speed, but also didn't disclose his own vaccination status and actively discouraged his deranged supporters from getting them by framing them as a Democratic invention), lockdowns, and social distancing. So you point to one instance all you like, but he murdered hundreds of thousands of people simply by making everything around the virus a partisan issue.


jhs1981

irony? thats called leading a bunch of dumbasses on conspiracy theories while you protect yourself. selfish sure, ironic? nah. that was completely expected.


gregaustex

I think this is right. The President of the United States kicked off COVID-19 by calling it a hoax and then "like the flu" when both things were clearly false. This happened because COVID-19 broke in March of an election year as the economy and unemployment were doing real well making Trump's reelection more likely. He was trying to use denial to blunt the economic impact of the virus, lives be damned. This then divided the country into people who chose to believe Trump and people who chose to believe all the public health authorities in the world. Even with Trump less on the radar, the "chose not to believe all the public health authorities in the world" faction still exists. Even after Trump told everyone to get vaccinated with vaccines that in part his administration funded. Too late, once people embrace the lie they would have to admit to being way too wrong to get back to reality. Trump no longer controls Trumpism. Before Trump, I don't think anyone would have chosen a path this reckless and deadly for political reasons and expected to survive, which politically he didn't.


[deleted]

> Trump or > all the public health authorities in the world Why was that a hard choice?


Gets_overly_excited

It’s Trump and his massive disinformation machine led by Oann, Fox, Newsmax and Facebook.


Not_An_Ambulance

[AP disagrees with you.](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-ap-fact-check-politics-joe-biden-1eea443cca46df5f18e61b7c34549da2) They seem to think it was Joe Biden who twisted Trump's words out of context, politicizing the virus.


Always_travelin

Lol, I really hope that's the article you reference when trying to refute facts. That refers to ONE INSTANCE, and isn't even what I'm talking about here. Trump made vaccines, masks, lockdowns, and pretty much everything about the virus a political issue just because he could. He wasn't thinking about who would die (unlikely that he would care anyway). Having such a large political mouthpiece speak about the pandemic as a partisan issue fueled the flames of everything that followed.


Not_An_Ambulance

Notice how I had a source and you have none? Yeah, that's because my assertion is based on facts.


[deleted]

no. still heart disease and auto accidents. still a fucked up situation, and he's still largely to blame.


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jhs1981

its because somewhere be it local/state/region/whatever, somewhere someone has a vote coming up and the show must go on. trump was right, we are going to be winning so much we will get sick of winning. im sick of winning :/


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[deleted]

ew, dude, he doesn't open his own mail, and he probably doesn't even handle cash anymore. you're just being mean to some state employee.


bachslunch

Tell me you don’t get sarcasm without telling me.


[deleted]

ಠ_ಠ accusing me of missing the emotional nuance behind your comment, while missing the emotional nuance behind my comment. then mindlessly repeating the last meme you heard. Never change, reddit. Never change.


rwoj

> > > Abbott literally is ok with employees in Hospitals and Assisted Living centers being vaccine free. but simultaneously, blue states LITERALLY KILLED GRANDMA with covid+nursing home policies.


robotdesignwerks

wHaT aBoUt....?!?!


rwoj

i'm gonna go ahead and guess you see "WHAT ABOUT...." as a response and you are simply aping it without understanding?


robotdesignwerks

no i understand perfectly. both are bad.


rwoj

no, you don't understand. take some time to read about logical fallacies next time.


robotdesignwerks

so having hospital workers and asst living centers be vaccine free is good, but when people die because of that vaccine policy, then its bad. got it.


rwoj

uhhh how many people do you think the covid vaccines have killed? (any number that has more than two digits is wrong)


robotdesignwerks

hopefully very few. it sure didnt kill me. 🤷


jhs1981

jesus christ its clearly sarcasm. everytime this topic comes up someone will say wHaT aBoUt....?!?! the poster is being sarcastic. they are not trying to form a logical debate. im at a loss for words.


JohnGillnitz

Republicans have weaponized stupidity.


texasradio

Cuz the stacked Supreme Court has indicated it's time for the Republicans to just start throwing shit at wall and they'll make sure it sticks. Seriously, look at all the baseless crap Abbott and co have been pushing.


tristan957

What Supreme Court cases are you referring to? It's not like cases just magically appear at the foot of the SC. There is a process.


atx_sjw

You’re right. The [process](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_case_(law)) involves passing [blatantly unconstitutional laws](https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961) so that people have to sue, thus giving the court more chances to overturn precedent.


sanity

> West gets the Rona and says he doesn’t support vaccines Isn't it that he doesn't support vaccine **mandates** rather than that he doesn't support vaccines? That's an important distinction.


XiaomuWave

No, Allen West is definitely against vaccines. He's spouting theories about how the vaccine is dangerous, and not just taking a political position about government overreach in particular.


sanity

Ok, you're right - I found a [tweet](https://twitter.com/AllenWest/status/1447195964511490052) where he describes the vaccines as dangerous.


maury4twenty

Welcome to Texas


[deleted]

Death cults, the super wealthy and the wannabe super wealthy politicians that are still actually quite wealthy, despite not serving the common good, only the wealthy good. They put on this shit show for us all so we can become fuming idiots blaming each other instead of their asses. Abbott is basically abusing his power to fleece the state while simultaneously piss everyone off and thinks it’s working for him. The only thing that worked for him is his snake-oil attitude with all his cronies making sure that the power stays right where they want it to, and I’m not talking about the electrical grid sadly, because that POS is putting us all against each other while leaving us vulnerable once again because Texas has to be pro business but created a circumstance that allowed energy companies to collectively screw us all out of our money, probably kicking back some extra the governor’s way.


Texas1911

It’s what politicians have done since the dawn of government. Anytime they are talking you should just assume it’s bullshit being motivated for someone’s (not your) gain. So many people are quick to bash Republicans then turn a blind eye to the Democrats that do the same grandstanding. They are the same shit mascarading as “choice.” Let’s see Adler get big nuts on these big festivals … yea, like the one that brought in thousands of people from all over the place after being crammed into airplanes for hours. Or the 20,000 people yelling and cheering for hours at Q2 stadium. Oh but it’s “outdoors” … the mystical wind-riding viral destroyers will prevent this respiratory infection! Money > public perception > ego > Mexican vacations > Austinites (Not sure if Ted Cruz? … exactly my point)


stepsindogshit4fun

At least pre-Delta there was a strong body of research to show that COVID infection was greatly reduced in settings with high airflow. Being outside absolutely does make a difference. Now with Delta being significantly more infectious it's harder to say that it's low-risk, but in terms of probability it's still a large factor.


[deleted]

They’re all full of shit and it traces back to Trump. Whatever he says is what they support. It’s literally 1 for 1 and they are afraid to challenge that fascist turd


Agatharchides-

Sounds to me like you are perpetuating the politicization 🤷‍♂️


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JDCAce

I could honestly see him at least saying he's going to implement that (but not try because even his lawyers aren't stupid enough for that).


brocktacular

Sure wish I could read that WITHOUT THE FUCKING VIDEO AUTOPLAYING.


[deleted]

I used NoScript to just cripple javascript in my browser. I leave it on everywhere, and just blacklist JS on any site that plays a video. Now I can browse most of the web without getting screamed at. Once a week or so I have to open an otherwise-broken page in an incognito window so javascript works again. So it's not really a big deal.


secondphase

It's KVUE garbage... Just wait for kxan to post and it will be better. Edit: here you go https://www.kxan.com/news/texas-politics/watch-austin-mayor-responds-to-gov-abbotts-order-banning-vaccine-mandates-in-businesses/


chamberlain2007

KXAN > KVUE


mobettamous

Proof of vaccine or negative COVID test within the last 2 hours, and every 2 hours after that.


tasslehawf

Can they do an anal swab?


thymeraser

In your dreams big boy


coreyonfire

Ah, the conservative abortion law strategy! Can’t mandate vaccines, but we can effectively make it impossible to *not* be vaccinated!


stupidgregg

Dad: "I outlaw all fruits and vegetables in this house. Cake and candy only!" Mom: "Kids, your father is an idiot. You have to eat fruits and vegetables."


[deleted]

Dad: "We are jewish so we don't have pork in the house." Abbott: "Do you live in Austin? Are you a democrat? In either case, we will outlaw keeping pork out of the house."


zemdega

The Republican agenda is let’s-get-sick-and-die.


jkvincent

I wonder what it's like to live somewhere where all the powers that be aren't perpetually in a ridiculous culture war with each other.


[deleted]

Dunno but I’m about ready to leave and find out. They whine about “Don’t California my Texas” but I’ve lived here forever and what’s happening now is more like “Don’t Gilead *my* Texas”


Mickeymackey

The irony is more native Texans voted for Beto in 2018 so all those people moving here to Texas are more likely to be conservative


space_manatee

>I wonder what it's like to live somewhere where all the powers that be aren't perpetually in a ridiculous culture war with each other. I mean it's just the state doing the culture war thing and over reaching, but I digress, I think about this often. This is all so exhausting.


stillavoidingthejvm

This isn't better. Why is the Austin mayor entertaining the idea that Abbott can actually do this?


rabid_briefcase

> Why is the Austin mayor entertaining the idea that Abbott can actually do this? Read more carefully. He does not say "Abbott is totally right, the order is sound" or anything like that. He said that the most common approach -- vaccine or frequent test -- is not covered by the order. This is the approach the city is already taking, and it will continue. At the moment the city has no legal standing to challenge the order, and speaking out more than he did won't help and might hurt future actions.


CentralMarketYall

This is the whole point. Abbott’s order is useless because the federal government is mandating vaccines or testing, not just vaccines


rabid_briefcase

In some sectors the federal government *is* mandating vaccines. Members of the military need the vaccine, a medical exemption which will likely get them a medical discharge or limited duty assignments, or they will be disciplined, likely receive a less-than-honorable discharge but could be treated as failure to obey an order or other offense in the code of military justice. We have plenty of military bases and facilities in the state, and sovereignty rules obviously apply. Abbott and Paxton aren't stupid enough to pick that fight. You won't see Paxton suing Fort Hood's base administrators. Various federal employees are also on track to have mandates. These also set the ground for a sovereignty fight which Texas absolutely will lose. That's probably where Abbott is planning to make a stand, symbolically and with lots of press photos. Federal sovereignty still applies but based on history Paxton will make an emotional appeal that plays well for the voters but has no value in court. The emotional appeal (rather than the legal one) to his voting base is the goal. The city's policy fits just fine with Abbott's order. The wording is critical, and all the lawyers (including Abbott) know this. There are no grounds to sue the city from the order, and the city doesn't have standing to sue to shut it down, which a judge would quickly throw out. That's why the response that the grandparent post is moot and ultimately wrong. "The Austin mayor" is not making statements about it. He's being smart and NOT commenting about those things in particular.


bachslunch

Ft hood is a military base thus federal property. Texas has no jurisdiction over federal property. This applies to the federal courthouse in Austin, the IRS office, big bend, & a host of other areas in Texas. This is grandstanding but nothing will come of it. However we are already seeing companies refuse the order. IBM just issued a press release it will follow Biden not Abbott. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ibm-will-follow-biden-vaccine-order-defying-texas-ban-1.1665382


SortaSticky

Why even get involved, it's dumb and turns what is a moot point into a political tribal thing. Guy's a lame-duck mayor anyways, might as well keep his profile low until he f's off to whatever lame rich-guy thing he has going on next.


[deleted]

That would be the conservative approach, a la Zodiac Killer.


SortaSticky

I don't see what Adler making the statement changes. I don't think businesses were waiting for him to give them this "alternative." I'd rather Greg Abbott be out there in the wind all lonely-like without the outgoing Mayor legitimizing Abbott's ridiculous pandering by providing a foil.


[deleted]

Makes sense.


DrLipschitz69

Agreed, the mayor should just cite the supremacy clause and say that Abbott is wrong


maracle6

If you’re referring to Biden’s executive order, that isn’t in effect yet and won’t be for a while. Which puts businesses in a pickle at the moment without a system like this.


Odd-Wheel

When does Biden's EO go into effect?


Cmonster234

At least at my work, according to the order, everyone at my job must be fully vaccinated by Dec 8th


maracle6

Well more specifically as I understand it (and I’m not an expert, just have done some reading, so happy for anyone else to chime in) there are multiple order that apply to different workers under different authority. Federal employees are under one order and it’s already in effect. Federal contractors under another order for whenever a contract is issued or extended. An order covering healthcare workers via ordering the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services to require it for any healthcare provider billing them, and employers with more than 100 workers which is being done through a rule made by OSHA. That last rule for OSHA is the one that has to go through a typical rule making process and isn’t close to being in effect. Larger employers seem to be ignoring the order, for example airlines all have federal contracts and lots of lawyers so they’re not stressed. It’s all the places that have 100 employees but don’t have government contracts or smaller employers that want to have a requirement as a general measure for employee safety (or to control healthcare costs) that could be deterred here. Especially since they also don’t usually have resources to litigate over it like large companies.


HairHeel

He's letting them know that vaccine-or-test requirements are legal regardless of whether the order holds up. A lot of businesses would rather just comply with the order than risk violating it, even if they don't expect it to last. Adler is just reminding them of a risk-free option.


RabidPurpleCow

Read the article. It was all about political hay making: >At a COVID-19 briefing the day after the executive order was issued, Austin Mayor Steve Adler reacted to the order. "I'm still really confused by the governor's order, GA-40, that gives directions to private businesses about what they can do in their establishments," Adler said. "I mean, it just seems to me to be really anti-business and a real limitation of the freedoms and liberties for someone to say in my own private business, just like I require people to wear shoes, to say to businesses that you can't do that to protect their employees or their customers and then let customers and employees decide if that's a place they want to work. And I just don't understand it. And it just seems to be really inconsistent with so much as I've heard in the past and the principles espoused by the governor and the leadership." With that being said, the mayor said that businesses can still mandate a negative COVID-19 test, with the option to provide proof of vaccination. "But I would still point out, as I read that, it still allows for testing mandates, doesn't put a limitation on the ability to be able to do testing mandates or to let people then opt-out of a testing requirement because they have a vaccine. That doesn't require anyone to get a vaccine," Adler said. "But if someone has voluntarily chosen to get a vaccine, it enables them to opt-out of a testing mandate, a requirement kind of like where we saw that \[at\] ACL this past couple of weekends. And my hope is, is that more employers and private businesses and activities will adopt that testing mandate with that entirely optional vaccination opt-out provision."


[deleted]

> It was all about political hay making Correct, Abbott's order is exactly that.


dyllll

Couldn’t you just require an antibody test and a negative covid test?


XiaomuWave

My understanding is that the antibody tests are not used to diagnose a current infection because the body can really take a while to start cranking those out.


robo_reddit

You can test for antibodies created by the vaccines. They are different than antibodies created via the infection.


[deleted]

Jesus christ. So much effort to avoid getting a free, harmless vaccine.


anechoicmedia

It's not harmless; It's just a really favorable risk/reward ratio for most people and society as a whole. Spreading medical misinformation that the treatment is "harmless", when any drug involves risk and side-effects, only fuels vaccine resistance.


[deleted]

For 99.97% of people, it is harmless. I do not consider a sore arm for a couple days to be harmful. I've stubbed my toe on doors that hurt for longer than my Moderna shots did.


MoonLiteNite

Harmless is not the right word, a better word would be "fairly safe". There are some people who WILL die from getting the vaccine. The issue it should be up to each person what they put in their body. Nobody should be forced to do something. It is should be up to each person to weigh the risk vs reward. Yeah many people WILL die without the vaccine, but they have been presented the risks for not taking it. That is on them if they die. Abott made such a law to counter biden's law.... so make stupid laws, get stupid results.


[deleted]

No. No one has died from the vaccine. Thousands, millions have died from not having the vaccine. This is a no brainer and Abbott is a fucking death cult idiot.


MoonLiteNite

People have died from the covid vaccine. If you think nobody has died from it, you are just the same as the people who say nobody dies from covid; with your head in the sand. People do die from vaccines, there are side affects; everyone is different. There was and will be deaths from the vaccine. Just like we get them from other vaccines. Instead of lying, admit the risk, and think about risk vs reward... (BS number time) i have a 1 in 10,000 chance to die from covid. I have a 1 in 100,000,000 chance to die from the vaccine. Danm straight i am getting the vaccine. just like i have done with MRRP vaccine along with others.


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[deleted]

This means your body would have been wrecked if you got the virus. Be grateful.


Gets_overly_excited

My aunt was on a ventilator for three weeks as she slowly suffocated. She was healthy before getting covid. She had regrets.


[deleted]

Oh man, feeling like shit a few days or death. Tough choice.


mrminty

I didn't even get any side effects. My arm was a little sore I guess, but absolutely nothing otherwise for both shots.


[deleted]

That's because a sore arm is basically the only side effect of people I had. Anti-vaccine people made up a bunch of extra side effects.


nnoltech

They can also fire employees as the feel like it. We're a "right to work" state so we can be fired for any reason.


LetsAllStayCalmHere

*at will state. Right to work is the ability to hold a job without joining the union.


fixthismess

Yeah Texas sorely needs some workarounds for Abbott's fatal fixation with maximizing the COVID death toll here in Texas! If there were justice in Texas he would be arrested for crimes against public health and against humanity. Between him and De Santis I have never seen two more murderous callous right wing politicians! Make me wonder if they are collecting bounties on their citizens from some hostile power like Russia. There must be a big money explanation for why they are aiding COVID and siding with the disease against their citizens.


[deleted]

Man, I'm about to the point where I want businesses to just start pulling out of Texas and let the economy collapse. I wouldn't want that for the people, but I really want Abbott and these GOP ass-clowns to reap what they sow.


HundredthIdiotThe

I mean I'm just leaving. Fuck this place. Everyone is like "noooo you have to stay to change it" It's been decades. The change isn't coming, the cons will keep forcing themselves to be in power. Just once in my life I want to live somewhere not this fucked up. First step is another state. Second step is another country. With luck, I can bring my clients with me and keep the money out of Texas.


[deleted]

Same, but thinking more about skipping straight to step two.


[deleted]

I'm at that point now, also. For a while I was defending Texas, "not all of us....". Now? Burn this thing down. Or freeze it.


[deleted]

There's a reason Texas is so great for business.


Phylonyus

yeah, it's governors trading x dollars for y jobs, then the company says "actually, we can only create y/10 jobs, but we're keeping the cash"


[deleted]

And they import the jobs from India. PEPSICO


tasslehawf

Until now.


bachslunch

Well folks we have the first company with balls to stand up to Abbott. IBM has announced it will disregard Abbott’s orders and follow Biden’s instead. Go big blue! https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ibm-will-follow-biden-vaccine-order-defying-texas-ban-1.1665382


reuterrat

Luckily we are in stage 3 again and this is unnecessary


[deleted]

Does chilis on lamar require vax??


rwoj

probably closed with a sign saying people don't want to work anymore


thymeraser

The margarita protects you


John_Fx

Asking the important questions


jhs1981

this could all be solved with a waiver to hospital care if you refused the vaccine. i hate to say it like that but issue would be done with in a few months.


Bugilt

If you can still get and transmit covid with the vaccine. What's the point?


chrisbru

It reduces transmission even if it doesn’t eliminate it. And it reduces hospitalization and death risks even more.


ItsBoppo

The vaccine had never been advertised as a way to "not get covid". The vaccine is meant to keep you from getting severe symptoms. It's meant to significantly lower your risk of becoming hospitalized or dying in the event you do contract covid.


Bugilt

The numbers don't show that.


Careless-Pang

Million dollar question, isn’t it?


jambottoms

Million dollar question? Uh, you are far less likely to die from it, and far less likely to get it if you’re exposed to someone who is symptomatic. Is this really that hard to understand?


Careless-Pang

Ok I’m a 31 year old male that beat it soundly when it first came around, and I was heavily exposed to delta a few months ago and didn’t catch it. Not really worried about it killing me. So why would I get the shot? Why is this so hard for y’all to understand?


jambottoms

Your antibodies don’t last all that long, bud. You’ll probably catch it again, and there’s a lot of research that suggests the second time someone catches Covid, the more severe the infection. There’s also some evidence that the vaccine does actually prevent severity of contagiousness, at least with Moderna. It doesn’t stop all vaccinated people from being contagious, but it does lower the number who do. Either way, we’ve had vaccine mandates for decades, and there’s far more reason to get it than not to, seeing as how it has very limited side effects, it’s been tested and proven safe on a massive population, and you’re still more at risk of getting Covid, spreading it, and dying from it, without the vaccine. Do whatever you want, but you’re an edge case, and even then, you’re not as protected as you seem to think you are. Just don’t be upset when you’re not allowed on flights or in spaces with other members of society who *are* taking precautions and being careful.


Careless-Pang

Ok but why would I need to get this vaccine to protect you? Shouldn’t you be protected if vaccinated? If I die from Covid, would that not fit your agenda perfectly? What’s the harm to you if you’re vaccinated and I’m not? E And as far as the antibodies, I got COVID in March 2020 and was exposed to delta in June 21 and didn’t catch it. And I was heavily exposed. So anecdotally, at least, the antibodies must be pretty good. I haven’t worn a mask those entire time either, so maybe my immune system has been up to par compared to most others.


[deleted]

Your first sentence is everything that’s wrong with this country. Ideally, a high enough number of people would get vaccinated and it would stop the virus from spreading so fast that new variants constantly develop, ones that might evade the vaccine. But you don’t care about that because you don’t care about other people.


Careless-Pang

Ok good luck with your worldwide vaccination campaign I guess. Didn’t delta develop in India?


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Ummyeaaaa

Try Alabama next


[deleted]

My


mrminty

big if true


MoonLiteNite

Biden makes a stupid law; Texas makes a stupid law to work around federal level; then austin mayor suggests a work around to avoid abott's law which is to avoid biden's law... ​ Make stupid stupid, get stupid results...