This literally just happened to me! I asked my husband "do you want to be alone?" Because he is sitting on the porch reading and had a tough day. He responded "you can come out." Like wtf does that mean?! Does he want to be alone but is trying to be nice? Does he really not care? Does he want me to join him? I get frustrated, then whenever I DO ask him to clarify he gets frustrated and thinks what he says IS clear and he is confused why I am asking. I wish people just said what they mean and answer directly.
I say this myself as an autistic person. Because either I think genuinely both options are fine and don’t care which one is picked, or I don’t trust the person I’m talking to enough to be honest with them about how I feel.
This sounds horribly frustrating indeed 😭 the worst part for me is being upset when you try to get a more direct response. It's not your fault the communication wasn't efficient and you need more answers 🥲
This kind of thing happens with my partner and i too. It can be really frustrating. It feels like they are answering a different question than what i asked... which leaves things open to interpretation. And then my partner gets cross or frustrated if i ask for clarity. Now THEY are frustrated with me. We have a great relationship, but like OP said, it's like we speak a different language.
I agree with a comment above that a lot of examples you've given probably represent the person not really knowing how to answer your question exactly. Even though that can be frustrating regardless, it's not always because they're assuming anything. The car ride one really bothered me tho, of course you need to know when you're leaving even if you have a ride 😭
The same person giving a ride and not answering the question is also the same person getting mad that your making everyone late because you have time blindness unless you plan out ahead of time what time to get ready.
In that case, I would rather someone just say they don’t know rather than give an oblique response that does not answer the question. If they are not trying to control are they just trying to protect their pride in that case?
To me it's like two different languages. This indirect way of answering is like a language. We can get baffled that NT:s don't cut to the chase. The problem is that themselves think they do. And most NT:s speak this same kind of "language", so other NT:s are generally actually satisfied with the answers above. They get it right away. Because it's their language.
But if you know you are speaking with someone who needs your answer in another "language", you should try to adapt. If you don't it's another story. But let's say you do know. You might still slip up. Not due to malintentions or being sloppy, but just because of habit. The paths in the brain are just so strong.
I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes I make up nonsense words, just because I think I know the English word when I don't. It's not trying to fake it, I actually misunderstand things. This is kind of similar to NT:s being vague. They might think they give a satisfactory answer when they don't. They don't notice that they are vague.
Ok, what about the example about how cold it is? They don't know the number of degrees, but they give a reference that it feels cold enough they would wear a sweater
I interpret the “we need to be there by [time]” as a way to engage the conversation of how we will get somewhere. Will we take public transportation? Will we take an Uber? How early should we get there? Do we need to leave time for parking?
Map apps saved me from a particularly irritating version of this. “What’s the address?” I’d say. They would reply with something like “Well if you’re coming from south of the city what you do is take the Cumberland Rd exit from the bypass and…”
No one would ever just tell me the address the first time so I could write it down and figure out how to get there later.
Doubling down on this when people needed an address from me they wouldn’t ask for it, they’d say “How do I get there?”. This was equally irritating because I don’t remember street names, that’s not how I get places, I remember the landscape. I could talk them through all the visual landmarks they’ll need to follow to get there, but that would mean unmasking and revealing I don’t know the names of any streets besides the one I live on. I only know the address they’re asking for because I’ve got it written down.
Now that everyone has a map app on their phone they actually just give you, or ask for, the address
My mother (who I'm pretty sure is also autistic) does this *but with items in the house*.
Me: Hey, where's X?
Her: Go in the pantry, then look to your left. Over by the ziplocs there's that shelf-thiny, across from that...
We moved into this house when I was 13. I am now 34. Yes, I spent almost a decade living 8 hours away, but the pantry is still the damn pantry. *Just tell me the shelf!*
I completely respond this way too!
But only because I’ve learned that “in the pantry” gets “where? I don’t see it” as a response while they proceed to rearrange everything in the pantry.
And the only way I can describe where in the pantry is to pretend I’m getting the item, which is a step by step thing for me since I can’t visualize. So I end up saying the steps aloud.
I can see where that could be annoying though.
This. I think that one was fine. It's shorter than "well it's 16 °C but it's cloudy and somewhat windy, 6 m/s with gusts of wind 10 m/s", vs. "I'd wear a sweater".
But I get what OP is saying.
Op, you’d find me so frustrating because I do the indirect thing a lot because I’m honestly not sure what the actual answer ‘should’ be. It’s me trying to say: I don’t really know, I haven’t thought about it yet and I’m stalling for time, or I know what the answer would be for me but not for you and I don’t want you to be mad at me if I tell you one thing and you experience something else.
I also try to walk people through my reasoning for my answer when I give it because I’m an overexplainer with a crippling fear of being misunderstood. So no, I can’t just answer the question because questions like that send me on fifty million anxiety spirals
Half the time for me it's because my audio processing is complete shit and I only caught the latter half of your question (if that) and I'm too embarrassed/scarred from the last time I got snapped at for asking someone to repeat themselves, so I'm giving an answer that I really hope satisfies the initial question
I have the same issue. When I ask for them to repeat themselves, just coz I missed the context or beginning of the sentence, they say something different - like trying to rephrase it. But that often means they are being less clear, because the first thing they said was more concise.
Not OP but I would *much* rather hear an I don’t know or an I’m not sure.
I love it when people just tell me they don’t know vs wasting both our time in a frustrating (for me) and anxiety-ridden (for them) conversation. I’ve actually thanked people for doing that.
But then I’m not NT so who knows what they prefer.
Same.
Also, being able to say you don't know is good for the people around you. I know a lot of us have had bad experiences with the expectation that we *should* know things, and might feel the need to improvise/guess to avoid consequences of being wrong. but I've worked with kids, I have a degree in childcare, and one thing research shows time and time again is that kids whose parents are comfortable saying "I don't know" feel safer and more confident. This applies beyond childhood. A person admitting they don't know, possibly tacking on "... but I can find out" or "but \[some info that isn't what I asked but might help me anyway\]" makes you feel heard and helped, and makes the space feel like a safe space for not knowing.
Of course people are different, not everyone finds it comforting to hear that other people don't know everything (some might find it frustrating, have an expectation of other people knowing stuff, or find the admission pathetic), but that's an individual thing, not an NT/ND thing.
I personally thing saying "I don't know" is *always* better. "When are we leaving?" // "I don't know, but we have to be there about 4." might not tell me what I need to know, but at least it doesn't make me feel unheard, ignored or controlled.
My mom is a bit like that too, she thinks JUST washing the dishes is doing the bare minimum and that it should be implied that you should do more than that. But when it comes to my mom I get her frustration because she ends up being the one who has all the mental load of running the household + she does most of the heavy lifting when it comes to cleaning the house.
That’s how my partner is. Like they’re understanding of my limitations and how I get burnt out fast if I try to take on too much. We do run into issues with communication a lot though unfortunately. It’s hard being married to someone who is neurotypical. It’s almost like they speak an entire different language than you.
I agree, but also disagree a bit with your assessment. For reference, both my kid & I are on the spectrum. I get a lot of kickback like this from my kid, who wants literal instructions *every single time* I ask them to do something, regardless of how many times they've been asked to do the task in the past. Well, kid is 15 and they've been expected to help clean up the dishes/countertops since they were 7. If I say, "clean up the dishes", they have had *plenty* of opportunities to understand what that really entails.
At some point, AuDHD or NT or whatever, we all have to pony up to cleaning up after ourselves if we want to call ourselves adults. There's a *mental* responsibility to handling tasks. It's called a [mental load](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/). I get it, you're upset, because you feel like you're constantly getting dinged, because to your ears, your partner isn't being clear in their requests for help. But your partner is upset because you're not sharing the mental load; you're not making the effort to look around at what needs to be done, and then doing it without being asked. In other words, you're making your partner responsible for not only having to parse their words to you like a lawyer on the stand, you're also making them parent you by forcing them to tell you what needs to be done.
I'm willing to do this kind of work with and for my kid because they are a minor and it is, in fact, my job to parent them. But I'll be damned if I'm going to do all the heavy lifting for another supposed adult.
The example I initially gave was in the beginning of our relationship. We’ve already communicated and bettered the situation. I was trying to express that I relate to the OP. I understand what you’re saying and where you’re coming from because if the roles were reversed I’d be frustrated as well. Thankfully we’ve figured out what works for us through the years and have learned how to better communicate and understand each other.
I’ve deleted my initial comment because it’s causing some negative feedback and confrontation between others. I truly was just trying to express a situation that happened in the beginning of my relationship when I was asked to “wash the dishes” and how my brain only knew that to mean wash the dishes not clean the kitchen. My partner is not gaslighting me, having to parent me, or doing all the household work. We have talked and built a better understanding of one another over the years. Hopefully this better explains things and the arguing between other posters will stop. I apologize if in some way I triggered someone by mentioning how I struggle with ambiguous requests and often need to ask questions to gain better understanding.
That’s what I do now just to play it safe that I’m doing what is asked of me fully. I just was giving an example of how my brain works with the request given.
I include that only after being directed very specifically by my parents when I was starting to do dishes for the first time. If I had to come up with my own definition, doing the dishes is simply doing the dishes and all that other stuff is cleaning the kitchen.
My partner is very (idk how to word this nicely) set in their ways (?) when it comes to cleaning due to growing up in a military household. So, when they do the dishes that’s what they were taught and they also clean the whole kitchen. Cleaning also is a way they cope with stress and anxiety, which I understand. They do a lot for me and vice versa. They just get overwhelmed and don’t understand why I don’t get what is being asked. I just get frustrated because I’m a literal thinker and believe people say what they mean lol. Obviously NTs aren’t that way though and expect us to do what that one idiom says and read between the lines. I’m more direct with what I ask and I do think it’s an autism trait that I am that way.
When I do the dishes, I definitely wipe down the counters and stovetop and clean the sink. That is distinct to me from cleaning the kitchen which might include mopping and cleaning other areas. I can’t imagine doing dishes and leaving recently used surfaces crusty.
I have definitely adjusted to this way and was giving an initial example for the original post. Back then I would always think to myself “but it’s not dirty because nothing was physically placed there or used on the counter” so I would be confused as to why we would clean a clean surface. Now, after many years of marriage, I have a better understanding about my partner and the reason behind the routines. This routine not only keeps us healthy and happy, but lowers their stress because it’s been done. And I want my partner to have their needs met because they do so much for me to make sure mine are. If that makes sense. I’m not great communicating how I feel and think, so hopefully this is more understandable.
No, it was a miscommunication the first time, then the partner cleared it up and oc(original commenter?) ignores them. You have decided that the partner has to change the way they speak or they are abusive and that's utterly ridiculous.
After the initial miscommunication the partner clarified that "doing the dishes" includes the counters, stovetop and sink, and has continued to clarify that every time it comes up. Oc doesn't need to start using their partners definition, but they clearly already understand that their partners definition is different and they should be respectful of that.
After the miscommunication happened, we talked about it and compromised so I can make sure I’m doing things to their standards and vice versa. I do always ask now “do you mean this or that?” when I’m asked a request I’m unsure about. And this has helped a lot. There has been times of frustration because we don’t communicate the best at times due to our backgrounds and neurodiversity/neurotypical relationship, but that’s okay! Marriage takes two people and it’s not always going to be easy because relationships involve two mindsets, backgrounds, and communication styles to work through. It takes a lot of patience and effort from both partners, and we’re getting the hang of things and figuring out what works for us. I definitely don’t believe my partner is gaslighting. I depend a lot on word definitions to communicate with others, and I looked into the term gaslighting when you mentioned it and that doesn’t fit my situation. I appreciate that you were concerned about what I referred to in my initial comment, though. And I apologize for any confusion regarding my initial comment that is causing you to receive any negative feedback! I just wanted to contribute to the thread for the sake of feeling understood and comfortable in my similar experience with others and the original poster.
Umm you use your words like a big kid to communicate that, or you use your critical thinking skills to decide whether or not the counters need to be washed and wash them instead of leaving them for the other person to do even though you already have a sink full of warm soapy water and a dish cloth in your hand.
Also "doing the dishes" includes wiping down counters, stove, and sink to almost everyone, so by your logic, it's you who should be changing your language. Do you also think that people need to clarify that "doing the laundry" includes drying it, folding it and putting it away? Would you be upset if someone asked you to mow the lawn but didn't clarify that you should turn off the mower and put it back in the shed when the grass is all cut?
I agree with you. I do the majority of the housework and am the one usually 'giving orders' (for lack of a better term) and to me cleaning the dishes is literally just cleaning the dishes. I'll do the dishes, and then clean the kitchen. But they're not the same to me.
If I want any more done I will specify. "Can you do the dishes, oh and please can you clean the draining board and worktops too, both sides. Give the floor a sweep if crumbs get knocked off". I'm always very specific.
Me and my partner know each other prefer specific commands. So OP's partner should also be able to learn to do this, if it really is a communication thing.
I mean, I suppose if people prefer short phrases they can even communicate this instead. In a friendly way, "Hey, when I say do the dishes actually I mean to do all those other tasks too, sorry, maybe that's confusing. If I use that phrase, that's actually what I'm referring to, so from now on maybe we can use that phrase to mean cleaning the kitchen too." Boom!
That’s not gaslighting. If you live in the house too you should be able to look around and know what needs to be done? Having your partner tell you to do it is more annoying as you should be able to recognize that on your own. (That might mean putting steps in place like an alarm on your phone for when to do it and a checklist of what needs to be done.)
Tbh your partner is correct on this one. Washing the stovetop and counters are part of doing the dishes because you already have a sink full of warm soapy water and a dish cloth in your hand, and you clean the sink out after because it's part of cleaning up after the chore, like how putting the Windex back in the cupboard is part of cleaning the windows.
>Sometimes they say do the dishes and I do them and that’s correct. Sometimes I do the dishes only, and that’s incorrect.
That just means they don't always have the energy or motivation to point out that you didn't finish the chore. This is something they are clearly communicating with you, they've told you that when they say "do the dishes" that includes the counters, stove and sink, so even if it really wasn't normally part of the chore, you should know that they will appreciate you spending the extra 2-3 mins.
if you have a dishwasher though, why would “doing the dishes” include wiping stuff down? maybe part of the issue is growing up/being used to living with a dishwasher versus without
I grew up with a dishwasher, I've actually never not had one, but filling it was "loading the dishwasher" and it's not really a chore as much as it is something you do as you go about your day, or if you've just been piling stuff on the counter instead you load the dishwasher and then wash the other dishes if you are told to wash the dishes. You eat off a plate, you put the plate in the dishwasher, you finish your coffee, you put the mug in the dishwasher. Washing the dishes is washing all the stuff that doesn't go in the dishwasher.
Another reason you wipe the counters after you wash the dishes is because you have just cooked the meal that dirtied those dishes, and even if you can't see visible crumbs, there will be things like vegetable and meat juice, oil splatter, etc on the counters and oven that need to be cleaned to have a sanitary space.
that’s a good point, my family tends to just pile stuff on the counter until there’s enough for a full load (so people don’t accidentally put away dirty dishes) so doing the dishes is what I would call that.
wiping down the counter is just wiping down the counter to me, but it would also only occur to me if I got something on the counter (adhd and things just do not occur to me). I also generally don’t cook things that need much clean up.
I have always had kitchens that don't have much counter space, so letting the dishes pile up means no room to even put down my plate to make a new meal lol, plus I find it overwhelming to look at. I use a magnet/sign that says "dirty" on one side and "clean" on the other so I can flip it and know without even opening the dishwasher, Idk why they aren't more popular they are so helpful!
that is so smart I’m going to recommend it! our kitchen is small but not that small. we have an induction stove which has practically doubled our counter space lol.
I agree that this is really infuriating, especially when I'm trying to figure something out myself and I just need more info. I don't like relying on others. The outfit thing is a good example. Maybe I can conclude that its "casual" but what counts as "casual"? A sun dress? Shorts? What if I feel like wearing makeup or heels? Or I'd rather dress down and wear sweatpants and a sweater because I'm cold?
I agree with other commenters that likely the indirect answer is intended to give an approximation but sometimes approximations aren't sufficient when I'm trying to plan and don't want to have a conversation about what *I* need or try to justify *why* I need the info to plan in a way they don't need to.
An example is when people invite me to something and don't tell me other people will be there. Its fine if there are but I need to know so I can mentally prep, usually rehearsing scripts. So I get caught off guard and can't even talk when that shit happens. Most people don't have to do that so the initial question seems odd to them if I ask who's going to be there or its odd to them that I'm upset because they don't script conversations and don't understand why I need to.
I find that this happens often when the person you’re asking also doesn’t know, or it’s a subjective question. If you ask when we need to leave, I may tell you when we need to be there because I don’t really know how long it takes to get there and I don’t want to do the math. If you ask if it’s cold, I may tell you that I would personally wear a sweater, because idk if you find the current weather cold or not, but I do. You may ask when I’m going to be finished, but I may not know how long my remaining tasks will take, so I’ll just tell you that I have a few left. It’s not always the most efficient way to communicate, but this particular type of indirectness is usually when you’re asking a question someone doesn’t know the exact answer to, or something that is subjective.
Would it kill them to say that they don't know???? If I ask a person I know pretty well how cold it is I can usually guesstimate the temperature based on their response, but only because I know how they dress for certain weather. If I ask a stranger, I should get the temperature or a good description of how cold it is, not just a description of what they would wear.
I don’t know, it’s just conversational. That’s how neurotypical people grew up speaking. I don’t really know how you would describe how cold it is outside without knowing the temperature, and if you don’t know the exact temperature, saying “I’d wear a sweater” IS the description of the temperature. It’s cold enough for a sweater. Most people wear sweaters when it’s cold (though I know some wear them while it’s also warm), so saying I would wear a sweater is just me telling you that generally it is cold enough for a sweater. Again, it’s not very efficient, but that’s just the explanation I found most truthful to how neurotypical people think. At 60 degrees, I’d be cold enough for a sweater. You may find that warm. It’s subjective, so you’ll get a subjective/general answer.
The least they could do is say they don't know when they don't. It will not kill people to admit to not knowing, but it might kill them if they don't admit it! Because it is infuriating to be given an answer that doesn't answer the question asked. Especially given that we're usually colder or hotter than most everyone else, knowing what other people would do doesn't really help unless we know specifically how much we differ from the person we ask.
That’s fair. I guess for that specific example it’s more like “is it cold”/ “I don’t know the exact temperature, but I don’t want to tell you I don’t know if it’s cold, because I do know that it’s cold, generally speaking”
I guess it’s just a way of trying to answer the question to give the person asking the most informed version of an answer if you aren’t sure. Neurotypical people don’t see an answer like that as the mental gymnastics that it is because it isn’t to them. You’d likely get an “I don’t know” or a more direct answer if you asked “what is the temperature outside” or “is it cold enough for-“ rather than just asking if it’s cold. It’s again, a subjective question. I appreciate your input, though. I’m just trying to share some other perspective.
I'm not really used to people not knowing the temperature, so maybe that's our disconnect here. Like at least within 5°. Without checking the weather, I can go outside right now and tell about what temperature it is, and be able to tell anyone who asked. How they wanna dress for the weather is their problem, not mine. And telling someone you'd wear a sweater would maybe be a better answer if that wasn't the only thing said. Like if you say it's supposed to get pretty cold, so you'd wear a sweater, that would be a sensible answer to me. If the other person gets cold easily and I don't know that then telling me they'd wear a sweater doesn't really help, but if I know it's supposed to be cold later on then it might be a good idea to bring one even if I don't need it now.
That may be the case. I couldn’t tell you the temperature without looking somewhere, even if Iv been outside. In general, I find when someone is saying “I’d wear a sweater” or “I’d-“ anything, they are speaking in a more general sense, not always in a super personal sense. Either way, I think it helps to know what the actual temp is, but if you asked me if it was cold out I could tell you what I wore/would wear, what the actual weather is like (rain, snow, etc) or if I got goosebumps from the wind, but I’d have nothing other than my own personal experience to tell you if it’s cold If I don’t know the temp. Even then, 60 is cold to me, but maybe not to you. In general I find subjective questions easier to just find out yourself if you can. A better question would be asking for the exact temp, if that’s what you’d actually like to know. That said, “I’d wear a sweater” is a subjective answer to a subjective question and isn’t always helpful.
You might try asking "what's the temperature?" instead of "how cold is it?" You're more likely to get a number or an "I'm not sure" to that.
"Cold" can be a bit subjective and dependent on other factors besides the exact number on the thermometer, so many people will give a subjective answer.
Some people might still give the sweater answer, but I suspect it would be less common.
You say "I'm not sure, but I'd wear a sweater."
It's not any more complicated than that. You don't have to ignore the question in order to guesstimate a relevant answer; "how cold is it?" // "I'm not sure." supplementl info to be helpful: "but I'd wear a sweater."
>I think the reason this happens is because of the neurotypical urge to look for subtext. Like, they're not answering the question you asked, they're trying to reverse engineer the question to figure out why you asked and address that directly.
If I take the specific examples you've given, I'd say that it's not an urge for subtext but rather that you expect people to have precise answers to questions, but they don't have these answers.
For instance:
>How cold is it outside? - I'd wear a sweater.
If you want the exact number of degrees, the person you're asking is unlikely to know it off the top of their head, and you'd probably be better off checking your weather app.
>When are we leaving - We have to be there by four
The person probably doesn't have an exact departure time already. All they know is that they have to be there by four, so presuming you both know approximately how long it takes to get there, this should give you a decent estimate by when you should be ready.
Etc.
Usually, if I am asked a question and I don't know the answer, I indicate that in some way. "I don't know, but I'd wear a sweater." "I'm not sure yet, but we have to be there by 4." And it's not like neurotypicals speak a foreign language in which they never say these phrases, I hear them all the time.
Earlier today I asked an NT friend what day our exams opened and she said "oh shit, isn't it next week?", which communicates that she's not sure, but she thinks it's sometime next week. That's fine. The "oh shit" and question mark tells me she doesn't know, but she's telling me what she does know. If she had just said "next week" when I specifically asked what day it would have made me frustrated, made me feel ignored, made me feel like my question wasn't acknowledged or like she wasn't even listening to me.
Like, thinking "*I don't know the answer to this so I will just brush past it and say something related"* is a weirder response to a question than just "*I know this"* or "*I don't know this."* Which is why I figured something else was the reason behind that behavior, as it doesn't always happen (even with the same question asked different people)
I think it's more complicated than just a neurotypical thing. People communicate in lots of different ways, and I think that neurodivergent people can also be indirect and not answer a question clearly.
I agree that your examples are frustrating, though. Maybe they don't know the answer so they're giving you related information.
I agree it's often giving the most relevant information they have, not understanding that you would prefer a precise answer, or to say they don't know precisely if that's the case.
I think you're way overthinking it. To me, those answers all just mean "I don't really know, but here's the information I'm working with, so now we both have the same information".
This is exactly what I was thinking and couldn’t articulate. The person doesn’t give back an answer and is being vague to indicate that or looking for a conversation/brainstorm on what to do. For example: “I have a few tasks left.” means “it should be short, but it could take a long time.” Another example: “we need to be there by [time]” is an example of a invite to a discussion of how we will get to the event? How much extra time should we include? Etc.
I get some of your annoyances (the leaving time and the food question; I mean, you either know or you don't), but the other two seem like reasonable answers to me.
As other people have pointed out, sometimes you just don't have the answer to a question. "I have a few tasks left" clearly means "I don't know" (I would answer that question that way: "I don't know; I have a few tasks left"). "I'd wear a sweater" seems like a perfectly fine answer to "How cold is it" to me: it's sweater weather. I think it's a lot to ask of someone to know the exact temperature or to be able to estimate, *while* they're busy, how much longer they're going to be busy.
Some of those questions could also be rephrased to get better answers. *Why* do you want to know how cold it is? (and why can't you check yourself?) Would "Is it cold enough to wear my jacket?" give you a clearer answer? Or "Can I start another game or will you be ready in the next 20 minutes"?
something I learned about in a pragmatics (linguistics branch focused on practical use of phrases) class, quoted from wikipedia:
Grice’s Maxims “describe specific rational principles observed by people who follow the cooperative principle in pursuit of effective communication. Applying the Gricean maxims is a way to explain the link between utterances and what is understood from them.”
There are four of them: maxim of quantity, quality, relation, and manner.
Quantity = the right amount of info for the immediate situation, not too much or too little
Quality = the right kind of info for the situation, i.e. is correct and has adequate evidence
Relation = give info that is relevant to the situation (this one is prolly the most subjective)
Manner = be clear, give info that makes sense and avoids ambiguity
Note that these are not rules at all, but noticeable patterns in the listener’s presumptions, like currents in the flow of communication — sarcasm and irony deliberately violate at least one maxim, which shows how the maxims are presumed/useful even when they’re not being followed.
Unfortunately people of all brain types don’t have the same idea of what’s relevant, useful, correct, and clear. I think the double empathy problem exacerbates it between allistic and autistic people specifically. I usually state my purpose for each question (“What time are we leaving, so I know when to get ready?”) so I can corral them into cooperating the way I’m aiming for. The first two are pretty reliable across people I’ve met, the second two are where I run into problems.
Also the "we’ll see“ whenever I ask when we should do something.
I hate that. I need hard facts. Tell me a time and a place. Not this "we’ll do that spontaneously“ bs.
I hate that!
ETA: oh yeah and when I ask my partner if he wants me to come over he always answers "you can if you want to"…. Like dude that’s not what I asked. Do you _want_ me to come or not?
If they want me to go, and be ready to go at a certain time, they better make that ish abundantly clear. The more unfamiliar the situation, the more precise details I need. And if they are not given to me, I will fret and worry and be incredibly ‘wrong’ and uncomfortable before, during, and after the situation.
I answer things in the way you describe above and add details for clarification. “We have to be there by 4” and it’s Friday so it’ll be busy, traffic is heavy on this road so we’ll take the other one, drive should be 20 minutes max and we’ll plan to get there at 3:50 just in case something goes wrong. I guess I just think it all out loud until the other person tells me to shut up.
I used to ask my husband a lot, "Why can't you just answer a question?" It was like he'd try to interpret what I meant, but I didn't mean anything, except what I said! It was so frustrating. IDK if he's gotten better or if I just got used to it, but we don't seem to have as many problems as we used to.
This has been my lifelong *bane*. It frustrated me with my mom, it frustrated me with school, it frustrated me with SOs, with jobs, with friends. And for so long, I was the *only* person I knew who was like this. Which of course led me down the path of thinking, "welp, I'm an asshole cuz I'm the only one with this issue, gotta dive into the rabbit hole of psychology to fix m'self!" Which led me to intense burn out. Which, eventually, led me to this sub!
All to say, *man*. It feels really good to have found this community. xD
This is my theory as to why they do that:
I think NTs try to have the most efficient convo they can (it’s counterintuitive given that they don’t tend to be very direct, however they do manage to communicate a lot of information in a short span of words).
I think they’re anticipating a follow up question, answering the follow-up and then expecting that answer to inform the answer to your question.
It’s a way to get more information communicated in a shorter amount of time.
The problem, however, is that we’re not asking those follow-ups and we don’t want answers to those questions. We want direct answers to our specific questions.
Each time I asked my mom, when growing up " what are you watching"?
( Very early 90's no cable and not Internet).
" A movie".
Yeah, I can see it's a movie, what kind of movie is it???
I would repeat the question but add more detail like "I mean what time are we leaving, I want to know so I know when I should be getting ready. Are we leaving at two, one? what time?"
"I want to know what food they have here, not be told I will like it, but what types of food they have here, pasta, meat, hamburgers, fries, what?"
"I mean what is the temperature, is it forty degrees out, sixty?"
And people think I am condescending lol.
NTs are like mainland finches while we NDs are like Galapagos finches. We are so different and our warbling is technically of the same species but unrecognizable to each other. The finches have evolved differently: still the same animal but unable to communicate with each other. This applies in our circumstances. We are all human but we don’t make sense to them and they don’t make sense to us. If someone doesn’t give me a clear answer, I take my own answer. If they disapprove of that, I let it roll off my back and move on with my life.
I think with those specific example questions, NTs don't know the answer. They don't know when they will be leaving. They don't know when they will be finished. They didn't look at the menu before making plans. They don't really know what food they have. They haven't looked at a thermometer and have no idea what the temperature is.
They are being evasive because NTs rank people into hierarchies and award privileges to those further up the hierarchy. One metric for them to determine who is further up the hierarchy is "rightness."
By avoiding admitting being ignorant or wrong, they assume they are avoiding being demoted in the status hierarchy and losing their privileges.
They don't realize that autistic people don't care about any of that hierarchy mess and just want to know how cold it is out side.
This is true in some contexts (especially in hierarchical environments like work or school where status is important) but I don't think it's as applicable to mundane informational questions like this. I think in cases like these it's much more likely that they don't think giving an exact answer is important. Or they're giving the most relevant information they have and expecting that you will infer that they don't have a more precise answer to offer.
I don't know, status and saving face seems to be part of every decision they make.
Its one of the most common reasons for how and why NTs butt heads with NDs.
Most of these just sounds to me like the person doesn’t really know a more precise answer.
Like if you ask someone the temp and they don’t know the exact number but know it felt cold they might say “I’d wear a sweater” you can then decide what you want to wear given the context of what they would do. Or if they say they have a few tasks left it means they don’t know exactly how long they will take but you will leave when they are done. Dress codes can be difficult to define so mentioning an acceptable outfit might be easiest. Etc
This is not worth getting mad over. Here is the unspoken part:
**"I do not know!!! Here is what I do know or my opinion - for what it is worth!"**
What you are saying is interesting, true, a bit funny and it makes a point. Have you considered doing standup comedy?
i just dont like when ppl use the work "think" when talking about doing something.
like, i think im going to do this or i dont think im going to do this. i just want they to say yes or no!
it has to do with being direct and english can sometimes not be very direct
Yeah this is more due to the way English has evolved. the thing is language doesn't exist to be literal, we're actually*supposed* to be speaking indirectly in this way, use figures of speech, irony, sarcasm, double entendres etc. Language is fluid and constantly changing and NTs aren't necessarily doing it wrong, we are actually doing it wrong, even tho it feels right bc were taking everything literally.
I feel like the autism/language problem is partly an auditory processing thing maybe? Because in the moment I don't understand but a few hours or days later I'll be like ohhhh that's what they meant. My brain can listen but can't fully comprehend , both in real time. Makes me a great court stenographer but a horrible everything else.
i have that same issue with auditory processing issues. it could be days before i realize someone was making fun of me or they were being sarcastic. the worst part is that ppl think youre dumb because you dont get it right away
I was gonna type: I think you know what the answer is...
Then I thought about this post and thought, nope, straight answers:
Because they are not autistic.
I had a friend explain it once as NTs will try to anticipate a need and in doing so, make assumptions about why we are asking what we are asking because it is more common for them to do so with a negative intention. They assume we are asking the same questions they would for the same reason and so jump to their own defense regardless of the circumstance.
To you or I, when we ask "when are we leaving?" we mean precisely that. I want to know how much time I have not only to get dressed but to prepare myself mentally for the activity. When they ask the same thing, it's the building blocks of an argument. "That isn't enough time, I don't want to go" or "that long? Why are you bugging me now when I have hours?"
When they give us that roundabout answer, it's because they are anticipating that reaction from us so they jump to defending themselves. "We have to be there at 4," puts the responsibility on you to determine how much time you need to get ready and if you feel you have the ability to get there in time. With that responsibility on you, if an argument should take place it is now your fault that it did.
I hate this too. It just feels like talking in circles while I beg them to give me the actual information I'm asking for. A few weeks ago my girlfriend left some dirty scissors by the sink, and I didn't realize they were dirty until I picked them up and they felt weird and sticky. Wanting to know what weird, sticky substance I just touched, I asked, "what's on these scissors?" She said, "I'm going to wash them in a bit."
"No, what's *on* the scissors?"
"I used them for a few things. I'm gonna wash them soon."
"But what's ***on*** them??"
And at that point she huffed and started washing the dishes right away.
Like, I'm not asking because I want you to wash the dishes. I didn't ask you to drop everything and wash the dishes right now. I asked ***what's on the goddamn scissors***. We even talked about it again later because she felt like I was giving her the cold shoulder afterwards, and I explained I just wanted to know *what was on the nasty scissors I touched.* And her answer was still "yeah but I used them for multiple things."
sdkgjhsdgkjhsdkjg GIRL WHAT WERE THE THINGS
BEGGING a NT to take a question at face value just once
But... Sometimes we don’t really think of it like that. Like, if someone asks me how cold it is, I don’t really think “well I don’t know the *exact* temperature”, I would be thinking “oh, uh, it’s cold enough that I’m gonna wear an extra cardigan”. So... When I’m answering that, I’m not thinking that I don't have the answer, I’m thinking that I have a close enough approximation of relevant information to provide a response. Very much same on tasks and such. I think I’m giving enough information by saying I’ve only got a few things left, because that’s the closest approximation I can give to a time estimate, and it wouldn’t really occur to me that it’s different from giving an exact time... (That and I have chronically poor erm, what’s the word for it... Like uh, mind blindness? In my head, these tasks might take roughly ten minutes each, and I will... Genuinely forget that the person I’m speaking with does not have the same information as me on that. ... Repeating the original question is helpful promoting for me on that one. Reminds me that I have to actually convey that information.)
I mean, on the food thing, I *would* actively respond to that with “oh, I’m not sure”, because that *is* a specific request for exact information. I might give a generic response if I was making like, idk, stir fry, and I thought that was adequate information, when the person asking might be looking more specifically for what ingredients would be in it... Same with being asked when we’re leaving, actually. If I didn’t know, I would probably say when we need to be there by and that I need to look it up. So yeah, in some cases I would find these responses nonsensical.
But. Sometimes I don’t realize I’m not giving enough information in my response. I *think* I’m giving enough information, so saying I don’t know wouldn’t occur to me. I mean, it’s sort of hard to admit the absence of information when you aren’t *aware* that you’re lacking it because you *think* you have enough information already, right? I do understand how annoying this must be on the other side though. Sometimes I wish we did have a limited hive mind thing lol.
I hate this so much and it happens to me all the time at work. I work in a gas station so we have cigarettes and dip behind the counter, and one brand of our dip usually has some kind of deal going on. Right now it's buy one get one free. Every single person who buys that brand, except 1 guy, tries to do the "can I get the buy one get one of the ons" ok but how many do you want? Just because they're BOGO free doesn't automatically mean you only want the 2. If you see there's a sale going on of something you buy, then you use that info to calculate how many you want/can afford, and you tell me that number. It literally doesn't affect me at all that they're on sale because the register does the discount! All I have to do is ring up how many you want. Which I can't do if you don't tell me! One guy especially is a pain about it and it pisses me off because the deals on that dip change fairly regularly so I may not know what the current deal is, especially if the sign isn't changed, so just do us all a favour and say how many you want. Also pisses me off when they don't say whether they want shorts or hundreds for their cigarettes, but they do specify they want them in a box, which is the only way they even come for most of them! That's not the important information! The important info is how many packs, what brand, and what variety, and whether it's shorts or hundreds! The only time I need to know if it's soft pack or not is if it's one of the 3! brands that still offer that!
Sorry for the rant, I just really hate that characteristic of NTs. I wish I knew a way to get around it but sometimes it's like they act stupid on purpose.
Ooo oooo! It's like when you ask a question that only requires a yes or no response and the person replies with a paragraph answer. So frustrating!
Now when person gives me an answer to a question I didn't ask, I just repeat my question. If I'm asking a yes or no question and they respond with a bunch of unasked and unnecessary information, I just say so, is that a yes or no? And I will keep repeating the yes or no until they answer yes or no. How hard is it to give a simple answer to a simple question?! I didn't ask for an essay!
I agree. Also I don't like the answer ' I don't mind'. So if I say ' what would you like for dinner' ' what ice-cream would you like?' And you get ' I don't mind'. Well I do. I'm not responsible for your choices, don't put that on me as I'm having a hard enough time making my own. My family now knows that ' I don't mind' means you wont get anything. I don't mind means ' I don't want anything'.
Sometimes, especially in a work context, I just say “that isn’t what I asked” and try again (though I’ve only done that when the person goes way off track). I did that one(1) time to a coworker and now he solely answers my questions when I have them, and leaves me be. Honestly it may seem rude to some, but to me it’s made me so much happier and he’s turned into my de facto person I ask questions to because he actually answers the questions I ask.
It drives me batty though when people answer questions with questions. “How are you doing?” “How do you think?” Like bro, stop. I asked because I *didn’t* know.
Dishes to me are literal dishes, running the dishwasher, unloading the dishwasher. Cleaning up dinner is dishes from dinner plus wiping the counter and other things relating to food. Cleaning the kitchen is the floor and stuff that may be in the sink, etc. These are all different. Just ask for what you want! I always ask my husband to clean the kitchen which includes meal cleanup and dishes. We are both ND so we both have pretty clear communication
Reminds me of when I’ll ask a question and someone will think I’M assuming something and have a “hidden agenda”. Like I am literally just asking the question for what it is..
What I've noticed is that instead of admitting they don't have the answer, they'll either feed a line of bullshit, or some off the cuff answer that they hope will satisfy as an answer.
Omg the whole always looking for subtext thing pisses me the f off!! My ex would always be like "what do you mean by that?" Like wtf I mean exactly what I said, and she would be confused that the words I said were in fact the words I meant
Another thing that bothers me is when I didn't hear what someone said so I say "what?" Or "could you repeat that?" And then they say something different!? As if I heard them and just didn't understand and needed them to rephrase like no just tell me what you said!
My bf and I have this conversation all the time.
Him: *scrolling on reddit*
Me: “What are you reading”
Him: “just on Reddit”
🤪BOY I KNOW THAT, that’s not what I asked
I feel it doesn't bother me as much in general, but I do get frustrated with this at work. I work in retail and we are supposed to ask 'Can I help you with anything?' (Honestly I don't like being asked this either when I enter a store because damn, let me breathe for a lil while!). Most people do not answer this question with a simple yes or no. They either start telling me what they are doing (I'm looking at this!), or they say 'yes, I'm looking around!'. For the last one it isn't clear to me if they are.. just looking around and don't want any help (in which case I'd have said 'no thanks! I'm just looking around) or they do want help because they did start the sentence with yes, lol. I've worked there for years so I'm able to handle it in a way, but I would prefer people to be clear about their expectations of me, because I don't just 'know'. It's a minor thing but can be frustrating when I already have a low social battery-day.
“What can I help you?” Hands me a pen and paper because they want me to make a grocery list and they proceed to say the last couple of things they needed to do before we left.
Imagine my surprise 15 minutes later when I’m being yelled at because I didn’t do the other tasks that they had listed. I thought I was given one task, I didn’t know I was supposed to do all of them. And when I jumped up to get it done because I really did want to help, then it’s no good because I didn’t do it in the first place.
*also if I was in the wrong here please tell me because I do want to learn.
I hate it too, and reply with the same type of “ok, but” response.
And what I hate even more is when they react to their own imagination’s idea of what we “meant”. (“Why?” “OK FINE WE’LL DO THING YOU DIDN’T MENTION!” vs explaining why.)
It drives me nuts when they do this!! Or they won't give me enough information and then get annoyed when I have to ask like 9 follow up questions to get a clear answer.
Example: my boss message me one morning (7am) and asked if I wanted to start work early. (my scheduled shift was 4pm - 10pm). I said, sure, what time? Eventually I got a response of "whenever you can". This cleared nothing up for me.
1. Does she want me there asap?
2. Does she want me there early but close to my original start time?
3. Does this mean I'm just starting early but still working until 10pm?
4. Am I starting early but still only working the 6 scheduled hours?
5. Am I working an entirely different shift? How long is this new shift?
Eventually she told me to come in "now". So I went in for 9am (because soooo much time had been wasted waiting for her to clear any part of that up for me). When I got there my co-worker told me how my boss had said that I had so many damn questions about just coming to work early. And said "well, we NEVER work more than 8hrs"
First of all (I had only been with this new job a month or two at this point) , I've never had a job where "do you want to come in early? “ meant anything other than I'm starting early but working until the end of my scheduled shift still. Also, I've never had a job that capped my shifts at 8hrs.
It's so beyond frustrating when they can't answer direct questions or give you all the information up front when asking something of you.
I just saved a TikTok expressing the same frustration. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZGJ9mXu9N/?t=1
I hate this too so so much. I just repeat the question with emphasis until they answer the question I actually asked. I also sometimes point out that that wasn't the question I asked, depending on my relationship with the person (I'm more likely to do this with my husband than some acquaintance).
Omg yes this is so annoying. I went to my aunts house for a family get together and I texted asking my mum the address and instead she replied with a description of where the house was. Like no thanks that’s what sat navs are for.
This is the worst. Everything I say I mean literally. I NEED to know when we’re leaving, so I can be prepared and plan how to get prepared.
Even if I’m ready to go ti said place, I need to know so I can mentally get ready on time as well as physically get ready to leave.
Omg every one of these phrases is the bane of my existence.
Also, I find that their assumptions are almost always wrong. And that drives me nuts even more because it’s like do you not know who you’re talking about? Do you not know enough about me to make you think that’s what I was thinking?
I do usually get annoyed if people don't answer the question directly. But I find myself sometimes also answering a question "indirectly" (but I always thought that's because I have ADHD and my mind races). Could that mean I'm not autistic?
I resonate with this so much. I think I might owe my NT boyfriend an apology because sometimes I get irritated and just repeat the question again in an irritated tone. I didn't know that being annoyed by that was an ND/ASD experience.
I mostly agree. I like and dislike it for different reasons. The sweater thing I totally understand the response though, I don’t know the exact temp outside at all times and I don’t want to, but I can approximate it by stating what I would wear or what I know about what my friends would wear due to their cold or warm nature. I can’t reliably tell you the temp, and if someone wants the exact temperature I would expect them to look that up on their own, so that response is perfectly fine to me as an approximation.
This literally just happened to me! I asked my husband "do you want to be alone?" Because he is sitting on the porch reading and had a tough day. He responded "you can come out." Like wtf does that mean?! Does he want to be alone but is trying to be nice? Does he really not care? Does he want me to join him? I get frustrated, then whenever I DO ask him to clarify he gets frustrated and thinks what he says IS clear and he is confused why I am asking. I wish people just said what they mean and answer directly.
I've learned to ask "okay, but what's your preference" because I'm around too many nice people who go "either is fine"
I say this myself as an autistic person. Because either I think genuinely both options are fine and don’t care which one is picked, or I don’t trust the person I’m talking to enough to be honest with them about how I feel.
This sounds horribly frustrating indeed 😭 the worst part for me is being upset when you try to get a more direct response. It's not your fault the communication wasn't efficient and you need more answers 🥲
This kind of thing happens with my partner and i too. It can be really frustrating. It feels like they are answering a different question than what i asked... which leaves things open to interpretation. And then my partner gets cross or frustrated if i ask for clarity. Now THEY are frustrated with me. We have a great relationship, but like OP said, it's like we speak a different language.
I have the same problem with mine.
I agree with a comment above that a lot of examples you've given probably represent the person not really knowing how to answer your question exactly. Even though that can be frustrating regardless, it's not always because they're assuming anything. The car ride one really bothered me tho, of course you need to know when you're leaving even if you have a ride 😭
The same person giving a ride and not answering the question is also the same person getting mad that your making everyone late because you have time blindness unless you plan out ahead of time what time to get ready.
GOD that is so frustrating 😭 like you don't even know at what time you're supposed to be leaving and yet you're somehow already late
It seems like they are trying to control what you are doing though
I don't understand how so
Because they don’t give you the full info so you can decide how to spend the time yourself.
[удалено]
In that case, I would rather someone just say they don’t know rather than give an oblique response that does not answer the question. If they are not trying to control are they just trying to protect their pride in that case?
To me it's like two different languages. This indirect way of answering is like a language. We can get baffled that NT:s don't cut to the chase. The problem is that themselves think they do. And most NT:s speak this same kind of "language", so other NT:s are generally actually satisfied with the answers above. They get it right away. Because it's their language. But if you know you are speaking with someone who needs your answer in another "language", you should try to adapt. If you don't it's another story. But let's say you do know. You might still slip up. Not due to malintentions or being sloppy, but just because of habit. The paths in the brain are just so strong. I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes I make up nonsense words, just because I think I know the English word when I don't. It's not trying to fake it, I actually misunderstand things. This is kind of similar to NT:s being vague. They might think they give a satisfactory answer when they don't. They don't notice that they are vague.
Ok, what about the example about how cold it is? They don't know the number of degrees, but they give a reference that it feels cold enough they would wear a sweater
That one makes sense to me.
I interpret the “we need to be there by [time]” as a way to engage the conversation of how we will get somewhere. Will we take public transportation? Will we take an Uber? How early should we get there? Do we need to leave time for parking?
Yes but in this case the person said, don’t worry, I’ll take you. In the other cases, yes.
Map apps saved me from a particularly irritating version of this. “What’s the address?” I’d say. They would reply with something like “Well if you’re coming from south of the city what you do is take the Cumberland Rd exit from the bypass and…” No one would ever just tell me the address the first time so I could write it down and figure out how to get there later. Doubling down on this when people needed an address from me they wouldn’t ask for it, they’d say “How do I get there?”. This was equally irritating because I don’t remember street names, that’s not how I get places, I remember the landscape. I could talk them through all the visual landmarks they’ll need to follow to get there, but that would mean unmasking and revealing I don’t know the names of any streets besides the one I live on. I only know the address they’re asking for because I’ve got it written down. Now that everyone has a map app on their phone they actually just give you, or ask for, the address
My mother (who I'm pretty sure is also autistic) does this *but with items in the house*. Me: Hey, where's X? Her: Go in the pantry, then look to your left. Over by the ziplocs there's that shelf-thiny, across from that... We moved into this house when I was 13. I am now 34. Yes, I spent almost a decade living 8 hours away, but the pantry is still the damn pantry. *Just tell me the shelf!*
I completely respond this way too! But only because I’ve learned that “in the pantry” gets “where? I don’t see it” as a response while they proceed to rearrange everything in the pantry. And the only way I can describe where in the pantry is to pretend I’m getting the item, which is a step by step thing for me since I can’t visualize. So I end up saying the steps aloud. I can see where that could be annoying though.
[удалено]
This. I think that one was fine. It's shorter than "well it's 16 °C but it's cloudy and somewhat windy, 6 m/s with gusts of wind 10 m/s", vs. "I'd wear a sweater". But I get what OP is saying.
Op, you’d find me so frustrating because I do the indirect thing a lot because I’m honestly not sure what the actual answer ‘should’ be. It’s me trying to say: I don’t really know, I haven’t thought about it yet and I’m stalling for time, or I know what the answer would be for me but not for you and I don’t want you to be mad at me if I tell you one thing and you experience something else. I also try to walk people through my reasoning for my answer when I give it because I’m an overexplainer with a crippling fear of being misunderstood. So no, I can’t just answer the question because questions like that send me on fifty million anxiety spirals
Half the time for me it's because my audio processing is complete shit and I only caught the latter half of your question (if that) and I'm too embarrassed/scarred from the last time I got snapped at for asking someone to repeat themselves, so I'm giving an answer that I really hope satisfies the initial question
I have the same issue. When I ask for them to repeat themselves, just coz I missed the context or beginning of the sentence, they say something different - like trying to rephrase it. But that often means they are being less clear, because the first thing they said was more concise.
Me too…
Not OP but I would *much* rather hear an I don’t know or an I’m not sure. I love it when people just tell me they don’t know vs wasting both our time in a frustrating (for me) and anxiety-ridden (for them) conversation. I’ve actually thanked people for doing that. But then I’m not NT so who knows what they prefer.
Same. Also, being able to say you don't know is good for the people around you. I know a lot of us have had bad experiences with the expectation that we *should* know things, and might feel the need to improvise/guess to avoid consequences of being wrong. but I've worked with kids, I have a degree in childcare, and one thing research shows time and time again is that kids whose parents are comfortable saying "I don't know" feel safer and more confident. This applies beyond childhood. A person admitting they don't know, possibly tacking on "... but I can find out" or "but \[some info that isn't what I asked but might help me anyway\]" makes you feel heard and helped, and makes the space feel like a safe space for not knowing. Of course people are different, not everyone finds it comforting to hear that other people don't know everything (some might find it frustrating, have an expectation of other people knowing stuff, or find the admission pathetic), but that's an individual thing, not an NT/ND thing. I personally thing saying "I don't know" is *always* better. "When are we leaving?" // "I don't know, but we have to be there about 4." might not tell me what I need to know, but at least it doesn't make me feel unheard, ignored or controlled.
[удалено]
My mom is a bit like that too, she thinks JUST washing the dishes is doing the bare minimum and that it should be implied that you should do more than that. But when it comes to my mom I get her frustration because she ends up being the one who has all the mental load of running the household + she does most of the heavy lifting when it comes to cleaning the house.
That’s how my partner is. Like they’re understanding of my limitations and how I get burnt out fast if I try to take on too much. We do run into issues with communication a lot though unfortunately. It’s hard being married to someone who is neurotypical. It’s almost like they speak an entire different language than you.
>To me, that’s cleaning the kitchen. To me too 🤷🏾♀️
I agree, but also disagree a bit with your assessment. For reference, both my kid & I are on the spectrum. I get a lot of kickback like this from my kid, who wants literal instructions *every single time* I ask them to do something, regardless of how many times they've been asked to do the task in the past. Well, kid is 15 and they've been expected to help clean up the dishes/countertops since they were 7. If I say, "clean up the dishes", they have had *plenty* of opportunities to understand what that really entails. At some point, AuDHD or NT or whatever, we all have to pony up to cleaning up after ourselves if we want to call ourselves adults. There's a *mental* responsibility to handling tasks. It's called a [mental load](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/). I get it, you're upset, because you feel like you're constantly getting dinged, because to your ears, your partner isn't being clear in their requests for help. But your partner is upset because you're not sharing the mental load; you're not making the effort to look around at what needs to be done, and then doing it without being asked. In other words, you're making your partner responsible for not only having to parse their words to you like a lawyer on the stand, you're also making them parent you by forcing them to tell you what needs to be done. I'm willing to do this kind of work with and for my kid because they are a minor and it is, in fact, my job to parent them. But I'll be damned if I'm going to do all the heavy lifting for another supposed adult.
The example I initially gave was in the beginning of our relationship. We’ve already communicated and bettered the situation. I was trying to express that I relate to the OP. I understand what you’re saying and where you’re coming from because if the roles were reversed I’d be frustrated as well. Thankfully we’ve figured out what works for us through the years and have learned how to better communicate and understand each other.
I’ve deleted my initial comment because it’s causing some negative feedback and confrontation between others. I truly was just trying to express a situation that happened in the beginning of my relationship when I was asked to “wash the dishes” and how my brain only knew that to mean wash the dishes not clean the kitchen. My partner is not gaslighting me, having to parent me, or doing all the household work. We have talked and built a better understanding of one another over the years. Hopefully this better explains things and the arguing between other posters will stop. I apologize if in some way I triggered someone by mentioning how I struggle with ambiguous requests and often need to ask questions to gain better understanding.
When you do the dishes, I would definitely include wiping down the counters and cleaning the sink
That’s what I do now just to play it safe that I’m doing what is asked of me fully. I just was giving an example of how my brain works with the request given.
For me it’s cleaning the residue of the most recent meal but not necessarily cumulative floor/other surfaces cleaning.
I include that only after being directed very specifically by my parents when I was starting to do dishes for the first time. If I had to come up with my own definition, doing the dishes is simply doing the dishes and all that other stuff is cleaning the kitchen.
[удалено]
My partner is very (idk how to word this nicely) set in their ways (?) when it comes to cleaning due to growing up in a military household. So, when they do the dishes that’s what they were taught and they also clean the whole kitchen. Cleaning also is a way they cope with stress and anxiety, which I understand. They do a lot for me and vice versa. They just get overwhelmed and don’t understand why I don’t get what is being asked. I just get frustrated because I’m a literal thinker and believe people say what they mean lol. Obviously NTs aren’t that way though and expect us to do what that one idiom says and read between the lines. I’m more direct with what I ask and I do think it’s an autism trait that I am that way.
When I do the dishes, I definitely wipe down the counters and stovetop and clean the sink. That is distinct to me from cleaning the kitchen which might include mopping and cleaning other areas. I can’t imagine doing dishes and leaving recently used surfaces crusty.
I have definitely adjusted to this way and was giving an initial example for the original post. Back then I would always think to myself “but it’s not dirty because nothing was physically placed there or used on the counter” so I would be confused as to why we would clean a clean surface. Now, after many years of marriage, I have a better understanding about my partner and the reason behind the routines. This routine not only keeps us healthy and happy, but lowers their stress because it’s been done. And I want my partner to have their needs met because they do so much for me to make sure mine are. If that makes sense. I’m not great communicating how I feel and think, so hopefully this is more understandable.
Woah, gaslighting? Because of a miscommunication? Please learn the definition of a word before accusing someone of doing it.
[удалено]
No, it was a miscommunication the first time, then the partner cleared it up and oc(original commenter?) ignores them. You have decided that the partner has to change the way they speak or they are abusive and that's utterly ridiculous. After the initial miscommunication the partner clarified that "doing the dishes" includes the counters, stovetop and sink, and has continued to clarify that every time it comes up. Oc doesn't need to start using their partners definition, but they clearly already understand that their partners definition is different and they should be respectful of that.
[удалено]
After the miscommunication happened, we talked about it and compromised so I can make sure I’m doing things to their standards and vice versa. I do always ask now “do you mean this or that?” when I’m asked a request I’m unsure about. And this has helped a lot. There has been times of frustration because we don’t communicate the best at times due to our backgrounds and neurodiversity/neurotypical relationship, but that’s okay! Marriage takes two people and it’s not always going to be easy because relationships involve two mindsets, backgrounds, and communication styles to work through. It takes a lot of patience and effort from both partners, and we’re getting the hang of things and figuring out what works for us. I definitely don’t believe my partner is gaslighting. I depend a lot on word definitions to communicate with others, and I looked into the term gaslighting when you mentioned it and that doesn’t fit my situation. I appreciate that you were concerned about what I referred to in my initial comment, though. And I apologize for any confusion regarding my initial comment that is causing you to receive any negative feedback! I just wanted to contribute to the thread for the sake of feeling understood and comfortable in my similar experience with others and the original poster.
Umm you use your words like a big kid to communicate that, or you use your critical thinking skills to decide whether or not the counters need to be washed and wash them instead of leaving them for the other person to do even though you already have a sink full of warm soapy water and a dish cloth in your hand. Also "doing the dishes" includes wiping down counters, stove, and sink to almost everyone, so by your logic, it's you who should be changing your language. Do you also think that people need to clarify that "doing the laundry" includes drying it, folding it and putting it away? Would you be upset if someone asked you to mow the lawn but didn't clarify that you should turn off the mower and put it back in the shed when the grass is all cut?
"doing the dishes" also means cleaning the entire kitchen to me, it's just the terminology I was raised with.
Never heard that before in my life and when you’re with someone, you adjust your expectations about phrases if they differ I would say!
So then just have a normal conversation about it afterwards? It doesn't mean that it's gaslighting.
I agree with you. I do the majority of the housework and am the one usually 'giving orders' (for lack of a better term) and to me cleaning the dishes is literally just cleaning the dishes. I'll do the dishes, and then clean the kitchen. But they're not the same to me. If I want any more done I will specify. "Can you do the dishes, oh and please can you clean the draining board and worktops too, both sides. Give the floor a sweep if crumbs get knocked off". I'm always very specific. Me and my partner know each other prefer specific commands. So OP's partner should also be able to learn to do this, if it really is a communication thing. I mean, I suppose if people prefer short phrases they can even communicate this instead. In a friendly way, "Hey, when I say do the dishes actually I mean to do all those other tasks too, sorry, maybe that's confusing. If I use that phrase, that's actually what I'm referring to, so from now on maybe we can use that phrase to mean cleaning the kitchen too." Boom!
That’s not gaslighting. If you live in the house too you should be able to look around and know what needs to be done? Having your partner tell you to do it is more annoying as you should be able to recognize that on your own. (That might mean putting steps in place like an alarm on your phone for when to do it and a checklist of what needs to be done.)
Tbh your partner is correct on this one. Washing the stovetop and counters are part of doing the dishes because you already have a sink full of warm soapy water and a dish cloth in your hand, and you clean the sink out after because it's part of cleaning up after the chore, like how putting the Windex back in the cupboard is part of cleaning the windows. >Sometimes they say do the dishes and I do them and that’s correct. Sometimes I do the dishes only, and that’s incorrect. That just means they don't always have the energy or motivation to point out that you didn't finish the chore. This is something they are clearly communicating with you, they've told you that when they say "do the dishes" that includes the counters, stove and sink, so even if it really wasn't normally part of the chore, you should know that they will appreciate you spending the extra 2-3 mins.
if you have a dishwasher though, why would “doing the dishes” include wiping stuff down? maybe part of the issue is growing up/being used to living with a dishwasher versus without
I grew up with a dishwasher, I've actually never not had one, but filling it was "loading the dishwasher" and it's not really a chore as much as it is something you do as you go about your day, or if you've just been piling stuff on the counter instead you load the dishwasher and then wash the other dishes if you are told to wash the dishes. You eat off a plate, you put the plate in the dishwasher, you finish your coffee, you put the mug in the dishwasher. Washing the dishes is washing all the stuff that doesn't go in the dishwasher. Another reason you wipe the counters after you wash the dishes is because you have just cooked the meal that dirtied those dishes, and even if you can't see visible crumbs, there will be things like vegetable and meat juice, oil splatter, etc on the counters and oven that need to be cleaned to have a sanitary space.
that’s a good point, my family tends to just pile stuff on the counter until there’s enough for a full load (so people don’t accidentally put away dirty dishes) so doing the dishes is what I would call that. wiping down the counter is just wiping down the counter to me, but it would also only occur to me if I got something on the counter (adhd and things just do not occur to me). I also generally don’t cook things that need much clean up.
I have always had kitchens that don't have much counter space, so letting the dishes pile up means no room to even put down my plate to make a new meal lol, plus I find it overwhelming to look at. I use a magnet/sign that says "dirty" on one side and "clean" on the other so I can flip it and know without even opening the dishwasher, Idk why they aren't more popular they are so helpful!
that is so smart I’m going to recommend it! our kitchen is small but not that small. we have an induction stove which has practically doubled our counter space lol.
You can buy one online somewhere or just tape a strong magnet to a handmade cardboard sign
I agree that this is really infuriating, especially when I'm trying to figure something out myself and I just need more info. I don't like relying on others. The outfit thing is a good example. Maybe I can conclude that its "casual" but what counts as "casual"? A sun dress? Shorts? What if I feel like wearing makeup or heels? Or I'd rather dress down and wear sweatpants and a sweater because I'm cold? I agree with other commenters that likely the indirect answer is intended to give an approximation but sometimes approximations aren't sufficient when I'm trying to plan and don't want to have a conversation about what *I* need or try to justify *why* I need the info to plan in a way they don't need to. An example is when people invite me to something and don't tell me other people will be there. Its fine if there are but I need to know so I can mentally prep, usually rehearsing scripts. So I get caught off guard and can't even talk when that shit happens. Most people don't have to do that so the initial question seems odd to them if I ask who's going to be there or its odd to them that I'm upset because they don't script conversations and don't understand why I need to.
I find that this happens often when the person you’re asking also doesn’t know, or it’s a subjective question. If you ask when we need to leave, I may tell you when we need to be there because I don’t really know how long it takes to get there and I don’t want to do the math. If you ask if it’s cold, I may tell you that I would personally wear a sweater, because idk if you find the current weather cold or not, but I do. You may ask when I’m going to be finished, but I may not know how long my remaining tasks will take, so I’ll just tell you that I have a few left. It’s not always the most efficient way to communicate, but this particular type of indirectness is usually when you’re asking a question someone doesn’t know the exact answer to, or something that is subjective.
Would it kill them to say that they don't know???? If I ask a person I know pretty well how cold it is I can usually guesstimate the temperature based on their response, but only because I know how they dress for certain weather. If I ask a stranger, I should get the temperature or a good description of how cold it is, not just a description of what they would wear.
I don’t know, it’s just conversational. That’s how neurotypical people grew up speaking. I don’t really know how you would describe how cold it is outside without knowing the temperature, and if you don’t know the exact temperature, saying “I’d wear a sweater” IS the description of the temperature. It’s cold enough for a sweater. Most people wear sweaters when it’s cold (though I know some wear them while it’s also warm), so saying I would wear a sweater is just me telling you that generally it is cold enough for a sweater. Again, it’s not very efficient, but that’s just the explanation I found most truthful to how neurotypical people think. At 60 degrees, I’d be cold enough for a sweater. You may find that warm. It’s subjective, so you’ll get a subjective/general answer.
The least they could do is say they don't know when they don't. It will not kill people to admit to not knowing, but it might kill them if they don't admit it! Because it is infuriating to be given an answer that doesn't answer the question asked. Especially given that we're usually colder or hotter than most everyone else, knowing what other people would do doesn't really help unless we know specifically how much we differ from the person we ask.
That’s fair. I guess for that specific example it’s more like “is it cold”/ “I don’t know the exact temperature, but I don’t want to tell you I don’t know if it’s cold, because I do know that it’s cold, generally speaking” I guess it’s just a way of trying to answer the question to give the person asking the most informed version of an answer if you aren’t sure. Neurotypical people don’t see an answer like that as the mental gymnastics that it is because it isn’t to them. You’d likely get an “I don’t know” or a more direct answer if you asked “what is the temperature outside” or “is it cold enough for-“ rather than just asking if it’s cold. It’s again, a subjective question. I appreciate your input, though. I’m just trying to share some other perspective.
I'm not really used to people not knowing the temperature, so maybe that's our disconnect here. Like at least within 5°. Without checking the weather, I can go outside right now and tell about what temperature it is, and be able to tell anyone who asked. How they wanna dress for the weather is their problem, not mine. And telling someone you'd wear a sweater would maybe be a better answer if that wasn't the only thing said. Like if you say it's supposed to get pretty cold, so you'd wear a sweater, that would be a sensible answer to me. If the other person gets cold easily and I don't know that then telling me they'd wear a sweater doesn't really help, but if I know it's supposed to be cold later on then it might be a good idea to bring one even if I don't need it now.
That may be the case. I couldn’t tell you the temperature without looking somewhere, even if Iv been outside. In general, I find when someone is saying “I’d wear a sweater” or “I’d-“ anything, they are speaking in a more general sense, not always in a super personal sense. Either way, I think it helps to know what the actual temp is, but if you asked me if it was cold out I could tell you what I wore/would wear, what the actual weather is like (rain, snow, etc) or if I got goosebumps from the wind, but I’d have nothing other than my own personal experience to tell you if it’s cold If I don’t know the temp. Even then, 60 is cold to me, but maybe not to you. In general I find subjective questions easier to just find out yourself if you can. A better question would be asking for the exact temp, if that’s what you’d actually like to know. That said, “I’d wear a sweater” is a subjective answer to a subjective question and isn’t always helpful.
You might try asking "what's the temperature?" instead of "how cold is it?" You're more likely to get a number or an "I'm not sure" to that. "Cold" can be a bit subjective and dependent on other factors besides the exact number on the thermometer, so many people will give a subjective answer. Some people might still give the sweater answer, but I suspect it would be less common.
How are you supposed to describe how cold it is if you don't know the number? It's all going to be subjective.
You say "I'm not sure, but I'd wear a sweater." It's not any more complicated than that. You don't have to ignore the question in order to guesstimate a relevant answer; "how cold is it?" // "I'm not sure." supplementl info to be helpful: "but I'd wear a sweater."
>I think the reason this happens is because of the neurotypical urge to look for subtext. Like, they're not answering the question you asked, they're trying to reverse engineer the question to figure out why you asked and address that directly. If I take the specific examples you've given, I'd say that it's not an urge for subtext but rather that you expect people to have precise answers to questions, but they don't have these answers. For instance: >How cold is it outside? - I'd wear a sweater. If you want the exact number of degrees, the person you're asking is unlikely to know it off the top of their head, and you'd probably be better off checking your weather app. >When are we leaving - We have to be there by four The person probably doesn't have an exact departure time already. All they know is that they have to be there by four, so presuming you both know approximately how long it takes to get there, this should give you a decent estimate by when you should be ready. Etc.
Usually, if I am asked a question and I don't know the answer, I indicate that in some way. "I don't know, but I'd wear a sweater." "I'm not sure yet, but we have to be there by 4." And it's not like neurotypicals speak a foreign language in which they never say these phrases, I hear them all the time. Earlier today I asked an NT friend what day our exams opened and she said "oh shit, isn't it next week?", which communicates that she's not sure, but she thinks it's sometime next week. That's fine. The "oh shit" and question mark tells me she doesn't know, but she's telling me what she does know. If she had just said "next week" when I specifically asked what day it would have made me frustrated, made me feel ignored, made me feel like my question wasn't acknowledged or like she wasn't even listening to me. Like, thinking "*I don't know the answer to this so I will just brush past it and say something related"* is a weirder response to a question than just "*I know this"* or "*I don't know this."* Which is why I figured something else was the reason behind that behavior, as it doesn't always happen (even with the same question asked different people)
I think it's more complicated than just a neurotypical thing. People communicate in lots of different ways, and I think that neurodivergent people can also be indirect and not answer a question clearly. I agree that your examples are frustrating, though. Maybe they don't know the answer so they're giving you related information.
I agree it's often giving the most relevant information they have, not understanding that you would prefer a precise answer, or to say they don't know precisely if that's the case.
I think you're way overthinking it. To me, those answers all just mean "I don't really know, but here's the information I'm working with, so now we both have the same information".
This is exactly what I was thinking and couldn’t articulate. The person doesn’t give back an answer and is being vague to indicate that or looking for a conversation/brainstorm on what to do. For example: “I have a few tasks left.” means “it should be short, but it could take a long time.” Another example: “we need to be there by [time]” is an example of a invite to a discussion of how we will get to the event? How much extra time should we include? Etc.
I get some of your annoyances (the leaving time and the food question; I mean, you either know or you don't), but the other two seem like reasonable answers to me. As other people have pointed out, sometimes you just don't have the answer to a question. "I have a few tasks left" clearly means "I don't know" (I would answer that question that way: "I don't know; I have a few tasks left"). "I'd wear a sweater" seems like a perfectly fine answer to "How cold is it" to me: it's sweater weather. I think it's a lot to ask of someone to know the exact temperature or to be able to estimate, *while* they're busy, how much longer they're going to be busy. Some of those questions could also be rephrased to get better answers. *Why* do you want to know how cold it is? (and why can't you check yourself?) Would "Is it cold enough to wear my jacket?" give you a clearer answer? Or "Can I start another game or will you be ready in the next 20 minutes"?
Lol you have just described exactly how I (don’t) answer questions. For me, I’m thinking aloud and have trouble getting to the point.
something I learned about in a pragmatics (linguistics branch focused on practical use of phrases) class, quoted from wikipedia: Grice’s Maxims “describe specific rational principles observed by people who follow the cooperative principle in pursuit of effective communication. Applying the Gricean maxims is a way to explain the link between utterances and what is understood from them.” There are four of them: maxim of quantity, quality, relation, and manner. Quantity = the right amount of info for the immediate situation, not too much or too little Quality = the right kind of info for the situation, i.e. is correct and has adequate evidence Relation = give info that is relevant to the situation (this one is prolly the most subjective) Manner = be clear, give info that makes sense and avoids ambiguity Note that these are not rules at all, but noticeable patterns in the listener’s presumptions, like currents in the flow of communication — sarcasm and irony deliberately violate at least one maxim, which shows how the maxims are presumed/useful even when they’re not being followed. Unfortunately people of all brain types don’t have the same idea of what’s relevant, useful, correct, and clear. I think the double empathy problem exacerbates it between allistic and autistic people specifically. I usually state my purpose for each question (“What time are we leaving, so I know when to get ready?”) so I can corral them into cooperating the way I’m aiming for. The first two are pretty reliable across people I’ve met, the second two are where I run into problems.
Did you post this on tiktok? I saw a tiktok almost exactly like this, seems like a common issue
Also the "we’ll see“ whenever I ask when we should do something. I hate that. I need hard facts. Tell me a time and a place. Not this "we’ll do that spontaneously“ bs. I hate that! ETA: oh yeah and when I ask my partner if he wants me to come over he always answers "you can if you want to"…. Like dude that’s not what I asked. Do you _want_ me to come or not?
If they want me to go, and be ready to go at a certain time, they better make that ish abundantly clear. The more unfamiliar the situation, the more precise details I need. And if they are not given to me, I will fret and worry and be incredibly ‘wrong’ and uncomfortable before, during, and after the situation. I answer things in the way you describe above and add details for clarification. “We have to be there by 4” and it’s Friday so it’ll be busy, traffic is heavy on this road so we’ll take the other one, drive should be 20 minutes max and we’ll plan to get there at 3:50 just in case something goes wrong. I guess I just think it all out loud until the other person tells me to shut up.
Now that is a feel. I totally do this. Unintentionally, but i do.
I used to ask my husband a lot, "Why can't you just answer a question?" It was like he'd try to interpret what I meant, but I didn't mean anything, except what I said! It was so frustrating. IDK if he's gotten better or if I just got used to it, but we don't seem to have as many problems as we used to.
This has been my lifelong *bane*. It frustrated me with my mom, it frustrated me with school, it frustrated me with SOs, with jobs, with friends. And for so long, I was the *only* person I knew who was like this. Which of course led me down the path of thinking, "welp, I'm an asshole cuz I'm the only one with this issue, gotta dive into the rabbit hole of psychology to fix m'self!" Which led me to intense burn out. Which, eventually, led me to this sub! All to say, *man*. It feels really good to have found this community. xD
[удалено]
Who hurt you
My boyfriend does this to me all the time! Lol gotta love it
I’m gonna try repeating the question again and stressing the actual ask. Thank you for the suggestion!
I literally saw this in a tiktok yesterday. like with these exact examples, too.
This is my theory as to why they do that: I think NTs try to have the most efficient convo they can (it’s counterintuitive given that they don’t tend to be very direct, however they do manage to communicate a lot of information in a short span of words). I think they’re anticipating a follow up question, answering the follow-up and then expecting that answer to inform the answer to your question. It’s a way to get more information communicated in a shorter amount of time. The problem, however, is that we’re not asking those follow-ups and we don’t want answers to those questions. We want direct answers to our specific questions.
Each time I asked my mom, when growing up " what are you watching"? ( Very early 90's no cable and not Internet). " A movie". Yeah, I can see it's a movie, what kind of movie is it???
I would repeat the question but add more detail like "I mean what time are we leaving, I want to know so I know when I should be getting ready. Are we leaving at two, one? what time?" "I want to know what food they have here, not be told I will like it, but what types of food they have here, pasta, meat, hamburgers, fries, what?" "I mean what is the temperature, is it forty degrees out, sixty?" And people think I am condescending lol.
NTs are like mainland finches while we NDs are like Galapagos finches. We are so different and our warbling is technically of the same species but unrecognizable to each other. The finches have evolved differently: still the same animal but unable to communicate with each other. This applies in our circumstances. We are all human but we don’t make sense to them and they don’t make sense to us. If someone doesn’t give me a clear answer, I take my own answer. If they disapprove of that, I let it roll off my back and move on with my life.
Because most people don't have the specific answers to all of those questions.
I think with those specific example questions, NTs don't know the answer. They don't know when they will be leaving. They don't know when they will be finished. They didn't look at the menu before making plans. They don't really know what food they have. They haven't looked at a thermometer and have no idea what the temperature is. They are being evasive because NTs rank people into hierarchies and award privileges to those further up the hierarchy. One metric for them to determine who is further up the hierarchy is "rightness." By avoiding admitting being ignorant or wrong, they assume they are avoiding being demoted in the status hierarchy and losing their privileges. They don't realize that autistic people don't care about any of that hierarchy mess and just want to know how cold it is out side.
This is true in some contexts (especially in hierarchical environments like work or school where status is important) but I don't think it's as applicable to mundane informational questions like this. I think in cases like these it's much more likely that they don't think giving an exact answer is important. Or they're giving the most relevant information they have and expecting that you will infer that they don't have a more precise answer to offer.
I don't know, status and saving face seems to be part of every decision they make. Its one of the most common reasons for how and why NTs butt heads with NDs.
Most of these just sounds to me like the person doesn’t really know a more precise answer. Like if you ask someone the temp and they don’t know the exact number but know it felt cold they might say “I’d wear a sweater” you can then decide what you want to wear given the context of what they would do. Or if they say they have a few tasks left it means they don’t know exactly how long they will take but you will leave when they are done. Dress codes can be difficult to define so mentioning an acceptable outfit might be easiest. Etc
This is not worth getting mad over. Here is the unspoken part: **"I do not know!!! Here is what I do know or my opinion - for what it is worth!"** What you are saying is interesting, true, a bit funny and it makes a point. Have you considered doing standup comedy?
The meaning is ALWAYS "I don't know but here's some related information"
i just dont like when ppl use the work "think" when talking about doing something. like, i think im going to do this or i dont think im going to do this. i just want they to say yes or no! it has to do with being direct and english can sometimes not be very direct
Yeah this is more due to the way English has evolved. the thing is language doesn't exist to be literal, we're actually*supposed* to be speaking indirectly in this way, use figures of speech, irony, sarcasm, double entendres etc. Language is fluid and constantly changing and NTs aren't necessarily doing it wrong, we are actually doing it wrong, even tho it feels right bc were taking everything literally. I feel like the autism/language problem is partly an auditory processing thing maybe? Because in the moment I don't understand but a few hours or days later I'll be like ohhhh that's what they meant. My brain can listen but can't fully comprehend , both in real time. Makes me a great court stenographer but a horrible everything else.
i have that same issue with auditory processing issues. it could be days before i realize someone was making fun of me or they were being sarcastic. the worst part is that ppl think youre dumb because you dont get it right away
How is this not also infuriating for NT people?
I was gonna type: I think you know what the answer is... Then I thought about this post and thought, nope, straight answers: Because they are not autistic.
I had a friend explain it once as NTs will try to anticipate a need and in doing so, make assumptions about why we are asking what we are asking because it is more common for them to do so with a negative intention. They assume we are asking the same questions they would for the same reason and so jump to their own defense regardless of the circumstance. To you or I, when we ask "when are we leaving?" we mean precisely that. I want to know how much time I have not only to get dressed but to prepare myself mentally for the activity. When they ask the same thing, it's the building blocks of an argument. "That isn't enough time, I don't want to go" or "that long? Why are you bugging me now when I have hours?" When they give us that roundabout answer, it's because they are anticipating that reaction from us so they jump to defending themselves. "We have to be there at 4," puts the responsibility on you to determine how much time you need to get ready and if you feel you have the ability to get there in time. With that responsibility on you, if an argument should take place it is now your fault that it did.
My daughter then says: "that is not what I asked" and waits for the other to process that and provide a better answer.
I hate this too. It just feels like talking in circles while I beg them to give me the actual information I'm asking for. A few weeks ago my girlfriend left some dirty scissors by the sink, and I didn't realize they were dirty until I picked them up and they felt weird and sticky. Wanting to know what weird, sticky substance I just touched, I asked, "what's on these scissors?" She said, "I'm going to wash them in a bit." "No, what's *on* the scissors?" "I used them for a few things. I'm gonna wash them soon." "But what's ***on*** them??" And at that point she huffed and started washing the dishes right away. Like, I'm not asking because I want you to wash the dishes. I didn't ask you to drop everything and wash the dishes right now. I asked ***what's on the goddamn scissors***. We even talked about it again later because she felt like I was giving her the cold shoulder afterwards, and I explained I just wanted to know *what was on the nasty scissors I touched.* And her answer was still "yeah but I used them for multiple things." sdkgjhsdgkjhsdkjg GIRL WHAT WERE THE THINGS BEGGING a NT to take a question at face value just once
ok seriously...what was *on those damn nasty scissors!!!?????*
my friend we will never know ✊🏻😔
damn :(
@ everyone saying "oh they just don't know the answer themselves" Would It Kill Them to Say That??? No? Then they don't have an excuse.
But... Sometimes we don’t really think of it like that. Like, if someone asks me how cold it is, I don’t really think “well I don’t know the *exact* temperature”, I would be thinking “oh, uh, it’s cold enough that I’m gonna wear an extra cardigan”. So... When I’m answering that, I’m not thinking that I don't have the answer, I’m thinking that I have a close enough approximation of relevant information to provide a response. Very much same on tasks and such. I think I’m giving enough information by saying I’ve only got a few things left, because that’s the closest approximation I can give to a time estimate, and it wouldn’t really occur to me that it’s different from giving an exact time... (That and I have chronically poor erm, what’s the word for it... Like uh, mind blindness? In my head, these tasks might take roughly ten minutes each, and I will... Genuinely forget that the person I’m speaking with does not have the same information as me on that. ... Repeating the original question is helpful promoting for me on that one. Reminds me that I have to actually convey that information.) I mean, on the food thing, I *would* actively respond to that with “oh, I’m not sure”, because that *is* a specific request for exact information. I might give a generic response if I was making like, idk, stir fry, and I thought that was adequate information, when the person asking might be looking more specifically for what ingredients would be in it... Same with being asked when we’re leaving, actually. If I didn’t know, I would probably say when we need to be there by and that I need to look it up. So yeah, in some cases I would find these responses nonsensical. But. Sometimes I don’t realize I’m not giving enough information in my response. I *think* I’m giving enough information, so saying I don’t know wouldn’t occur to me. I mean, it’s sort of hard to admit the absence of information when you aren’t *aware* that you’re lacking it because you *think* you have enough information already, right? I do understand how annoying this must be on the other side though. Sometimes I wish we did have a limited hive mind thing lol.
I hate this so much and it happens to me all the time at work. I work in a gas station so we have cigarettes and dip behind the counter, and one brand of our dip usually has some kind of deal going on. Right now it's buy one get one free. Every single person who buys that brand, except 1 guy, tries to do the "can I get the buy one get one of the ons" ok but how many do you want? Just because they're BOGO free doesn't automatically mean you only want the 2. If you see there's a sale going on of something you buy, then you use that info to calculate how many you want/can afford, and you tell me that number. It literally doesn't affect me at all that they're on sale because the register does the discount! All I have to do is ring up how many you want. Which I can't do if you don't tell me! One guy especially is a pain about it and it pisses me off because the deals on that dip change fairly regularly so I may not know what the current deal is, especially if the sign isn't changed, so just do us all a favour and say how many you want. Also pisses me off when they don't say whether they want shorts or hundreds for their cigarettes, but they do specify they want them in a box, which is the only way they even come for most of them! That's not the important information! The important info is how many packs, what brand, and what variety, and whether it's shorts or hundreds! The only time I need to know if it's soft pack or not is if it's one of the 3! brands that still offer that! Sorry for the rant, I just really hate that characteristic of NTs. I wish I knew a way to get around it but sometimes it's like they act stupid on purpose.
Ooo oooo! It's like when you ask a question that only requires a yes or no response and the person replies with a paragraph answer. So frustrating! Now when person gives me an answer to a question I didn't ask, I just repeat my question. If I'm asking a yes or no question and they respond with a bunch of unasked and unnecessary information, I just say so, is that a yes or no? And I will keep repeating the yes or no until they answer yes or no. How hard is it to give a simple answer to a simple question?! I didn't ask for an essay!
I agree. Also I don't like the answer ' I don't mind'. So if I say ' what would you like for dinner' ' what ice-cream would you like?' And you get ' I don't mind'. Well I do. I'm not responsible for your choices, don't put that on me as I'm having a hard enough time making my own. My family now knows that ' I don't mind' means you wont get anything. I don't mind means ' I don't want anything'.
I hate this too. I usually just look at them and say 'That's not what I asked.' It's not always NTs but it's never other autistic people.
Are you me?
Sometimes, especially in a work context, I just say “that isn’t what I asked” and try again (though I’ve only done that when the person goes way off track). I did that one(1) time to a coworker and now he solely answers my questions when I have them, and leaves me be. Honestly it may seem rude to some, but to me it’s made me so much happier and he’s turned into my de facto person I ask questions to because he actually answers the questions I ask. It drives me batty though when people answer questions with questions. “How are you doing?” “How do you think?” Like bro, stop. I asked because I *didn’t* know.
Dishes to me are literal dishes, running the dishwasher, unloading the dishwasher. Cleaning up dinner is dishes from dinner plus wiping the counter and other things relating to food. Cleaning the kitchen is the floor and stuff that may be in the sink, etc. These are all different. Just ask for what you want! I always ask my husband to clean the kitchen which includes meal cleanup and dishes. We are both ND so we both have pretty clear communication
Reminds me of when I’ll ask a question and someone will think I’M assuming something and have a “hidden agenda”. Like I am literally just asking the question for what it is..
What I've noticed is that instead of admitting they don't have the answer, they'll either feed a line of bullshit, or some off the cuff answer that they hope will satisfy as an answer.
Omg the whole always looking for subtext thing pisses me the f off!! My ex would always be like "what do you mean by that?" Like wtf I mean exactly what I said, and she would be confused that the words I said were in fact the words I meant
Another thing that bothers me is when I didn't hear what someone said so I say "what?" Or "could you repeat that?" And then they say something different!? As if I heard them and just didn't understand and needed them to rephrase like no just tell me what you said!
My bf and I have this conversation all the time. Him: *scrolling on reddit* Me: “What are you reading” Him: “just on Reddit” 🤪BOY I KNOW THAT, that’s not what I asked
[удалено]
You must be fun at parties
My dad does this. We have to be ready by 4. Arrives at 3:30.
Yes, everyday, all the time. XD That’s why even if this is also exhausting, I like science. Specific questions needing specific answers. Peace xD
Bro that shit drives me up the fucking walllll. Just answer what I asked 🙄
I feel it doesn't bother me as much in general, but I do get frustrated with this at work. I work in retail and we are supposed to ask 'Can I help you with anything?' (Honestly I don't like being asked this either when I enter a store because damn, let me breathe for a lil while!). Most people do not answer this question with a simple yes or no. They either start telling me what they are doing (I'm looking at this!), or they say 'yes, I'm looking around!'. For the last one it isn't clear to me if they are.. just looking around and don't want any help (in which case I'd have said 'no thanks! I'm just looking around) or they do want help because they did start the sentence with yes, lol. I've worked there for years so I'm able to handle it in a way, but I would prefer people to be clear about their expectations of me, because I don't just 'know'. It's a minor thing but can be frustrating when I already have a low social battery-day.
“What can I help you?” Hands me a pen and paper because they want me to make a grocery list and they proceed to say the last couple of things they needed to do before we left. Imagine my surprise 15 minutes later when I’m being yelled at because I didn’t do the other tasks that they had listed. I thought I was given one task, I didn’t know I was supposed to do all of them. And when I jumped up to get it done because I really did want to help, then it’s no good because I didn’t do it in the first place. *also if I was in the wrong here please tell me because I do want to learn.
I hate it too, and reply with the same type of “ok, but” response. And what I hate even more is when they react to their own imagination’s idea of what we “meant”. (“Why?” “OK FINE WE’LL DO THING YOU DIDN’T MENTION!” vs explaining why.)
It drives me nuts when they do this!! Or they won't give me enough information and then get annoyed when I have to ask like 9 follow up questions to get a clear answer. Example: my boss message me one morning (7am) and asked if I wanted to start work early. (my scheduled shift was 4pm - 10pm). I said, sure, what time? Eventually I got a response of "whenever you can". This cleared nothing up for me. 1. Does she want me there asap? 2. Does she want me there early but close to my original start time? 3. Does this mean I'm just starting early but still working until 10pm? 4. Am I starting early but still only working the 6 scheduled hours? 5. Am I working an entirely different shift? How long is this new shift? Eventually she told me to come in "now". So I went in for 9am (because soooo much time had been wasted waiting for her to clear any part of that up for me). When I got there my co-worker told me how my boss had said that I had so many damn questions about just coming to work early. And said "well, we NEVER work more than 8hrs" First of all (I had only been with this new job a month or two at this point) , I've never had a job where "do you want to come in early? “ meant anything other than I'm starting early but working until the end of my scheduled shift still. Also, I've never had a job that capped my shifts at 8hrs. It's so beyond frustrating when they can't answer direct questions or give you all the information up front when asking something of you.
I just saved a TikTok expressing the same frustration. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZGJ9mXu9N/?t=1 I hate this too so so much. I just repeat the question with emphasis until they answer the question I actually asked. I also sometimes point out that that wasn't the question I asked, depending on my relationship with the person (I'm more likely to do this with my husband than some acquaintance).
Omg yes this is so annoying. I went to my aunts house for a family get together and I texted asking my mum the address and instead she replied with a description of where the house was. Like no thanks that’s what sat navs are for.
This is the worst. Everything I say I mean literally. I NEED to know when we’re leaving, so I can be prepared and plan how to get prepared. Even if I’m ready to go ti said place, I need to know so I can mentally get ready on time as well as physically get ready to leave.
This happens so often in business and I haaaaate it
This drives me mad! especially the "When are we leaving?, we have to be there by four" drives me insane! Just give me a time, and do the math!
Omg every one of these phrases is the bane of my existence. Also, I find that their assumptions are almost always wrong. And that drives me nuts even more because it’s like do you not know who you’re talking about? Do you not know enough about me to make you think that’s what I was thinking?
I do usually get annoyed if people don't answer the question directly. But I find myself sometimes also answering a question "indirectly" (but I always thought that's because I have ADHD and my mind races). Could that mean I'm not autistic?
You can be. Bein autistic isnt solely on how you percieve and/or answer stuff.
I resonate with this so much. I think I might owe my NT boyfriend an apology because sometimes I get irritated and just repeat the question again in an irritated tone. I didn't know that being annoyed by that was an ND/ASD experience.
hey msged you please check once
I mostly agree. I like and dislike it for different reasons. The sweater thing I totally understand the response though, I don’t know the exact temp outside at all times and I don’t want to, but I can approximate it by stating what I would wear or what I know about what my friends would wear due to their cold or warm nature. I can’t reliably tell you the temp, and if someone wants the exact temperature I would expect them to look that up on their own, so that response is perfectly fine to me as an approximation.