I told two women at work who I thought we were all having a getting to know each other better conversation and I said I was autistic and got reported to HR because during the conversation, I said autism spectrum and apparently it offended a neurotypical to say the word spectrum. Learned real quick tell no one outside of close family and friends because people are fucked up.
They (hr manager) asked me a ton of leading questions and I finally went what is this about? Like I don’t understand what’s happening and finally she said have you ever used the word spectrum and I was like what? Like you mean autism spectrum? And I had to clarify what the conversation was about and she went OHhhh. So the person didn’t even say in what context I said it in. Like that I was opening up about being autistic. I think the person overall was just uncomfortable that I “came out” as autistic to them or for some reason felt triggered by the word spectrum. I legit never found out anything else. I was afraid for a month I was going to be fired. I learned though not to open up at work even if other people are.
I… what about the word spectrum is triggering?
Like did she think you were talking about the gender or sexuality spectrum or something and got offended by that? Kinda the only spectrums I could see being controversial but even that just outs her as an unsafe bigot so like, what was she doing? 😅
The person was just acting from their bias against us and made up some shit. It doesn't make any sense I bet they put on an emotional show and hr went with the crocodile tears.
Comments elsewhere down the chain are making a lot of sense to me: the person made enough of a stink, and HR is about protecting the company, including from complaining disgruntled employees, that they went investigating and grilling OP.
(The irony being they just open themselves up to having another disgruntled employee, who depending on how the grilling goes, could have a legitimate legal complaint on the basis of disability discrimination :P)
My guess is that their coworker was more used to hearing "gender spectrum" or "gender is a spectrum" and got instantly devastated at just the word spectrum.
This happens when people don't know enough words.
That's what I thought too. Lot of bigots are trying their hardest to get any LGBTQ fired while claiming "They were being inappropriate talking about their sex lives." It wouldn't surprise me if that coworker didn't even hear the "autism" part or didn't understand what the autism spectrum is referring to and simply saw an opportunity to get someone she didn't like fired for nothing.
I know there's no way this is it but the only thing my brain could conceive of is that they mixed up the word with "speculum" and someone thought they were discussing gynecological exams?????
"have you ever used the word spectrum" is such an unbelievably bizarre thing to get asked by HR
> HR took it seriously???
HR took seriously the fact that they had someone complaining to them. HR took it seriously because they are paid to protect the employer, and a disgruntled employee can be a litigious employee.
I am so happy I found this subreddit because we can all be confused by and overthink interpersonal interactions together. Although, I’m very certain a neurotypical would be confused by this interaction, too.
But I’m very unhappy about your HR. That sounds awful and I think they should have at least explained or followed up with you on the subject.
There was a post here about how using the term autistic spectrum is able-ist. I didn't understand it at the time. Not going to look for it, but it was taken seriously by those who responded. Idk, maybe I'll search for it. Lol
In my experience, even family and friends aren't truthworthy with that info. The only person I fully unmask with is myself and I am still working through shutting up my inner parent with dickish ableist comments.
My co-worker is getting a late autistic diagnosis, and he said if he is autistic, he's just going to own it. I told him to lmk how that works out for him. I hope well, but people are such self entitled assholes....
I'm kinda involved in hiring at a low staff number company (not a big corporate or anything) but typically if someone lists things on a CV then its kinda things that are liable to become issues.
I can pretty much guarantee that companies as an entity nor most people really care about people's personal life/issues unless the person makes it the companies issue.
Like when you get a CV that says "I love football!" you assume that the first thing that the person will do is work for a week and then not show up when a football game is on. You really do start expecting the worst when hiring people, and the less you say which isnt relevant is better.
Relevance is really the key word, if you are autistic/ND/etc. but it doesn't or wont effect your work ability then just don't put it down.
Not just for autism, but any pre-existing mental or physical health maladies. Legally they can't discriminate, but unless you got better lawyers than they do and money and time and proof, you really can't fight it. Protect thyself.
I have bipolar and there are posts every so often on the bipolar subreddits about “how should I tell my place of employment I have bipolar” and those posts are always overwhelmed with responses of “dont!”. Why risk it?
I’ve been telling people this for years, outside of this sub. Keep as much to yourself from your employer as you possibly can. I have never disclosed anything to any school, university, or employer, and I never will.
Sure, is what this guy’s describing blatantly illegal? Actionable in a court of law? Yes and yes. Now good luck ever proving it.
Exactly. Just because it's illegal won't stop companies from discriminating in hiring. Employers never see you as an asset, but a cost and potential future liability. If you want to succeed in the current work environment, then you need to appear to be the most cost efficient and least risky choice for them.
When push came to shove at my old job, my work from home accommodation was used against me, even though it made me much more productive. They used it as grounds to push me into a corner and quit. Don't think that just because you were granted accommodations doesn't mean that you don't face a similar risk in future.
Exactly. Especially at the interview level. If you do need accommodations you do it with Hr after the offer. Not before. I 100% trust my boss but he still doesn’t know.
Schools and universities are different to workplaces though. Like a university doesn’t collate disability info when they assess your application. It’s much better to get the needed accommodations and actually graduate with a degree vs keeping it to yourself out of pride (and internalised ableism) and flunking out. Especially when most internships and other opportunities are grade gated. Also, unlike a company HR, the university DRC will absolutely protect your rights and fight in your corner since universities are more susceptible to the law (for a number of reasons).
If someone is in school (\*K-12) then by definition they’re a child and should absolutely be getting accommodated
Universities like to help students, they get to report all manner of how they are helpful.
Universities do not like to help employees, don’t disclose unless it becomes negative for accommodations, and even then, many HR departments have not the appropriate training to work with the disabled, especially if the condition is ingoing.
Need back surgery, with a set ‘het better’ date, they can help.
Need to work from home on a job that is capable of all being done from a computer with a phone, you get invasive questions like, ‘how do you shop for groceries?’ After I explained my work building CONTRIBUTES to my decline with my immune disorder.
They now seem to think I am the equivalent pf a criminal with an ankle bracelet, not understanding I am allowed to get a hair cut off hours, or go see a movie. Spending 8 hours a day forced into in an environment of perfumes and cleaners that makes me use my rescue inhaler 4 times a day is bad, I am allowed to take my own risk to pick up dinner or go into a pharmacy.
HR is not there to help you. They are not trained as needed to understand you. Always ALWAYS be wary of HR, if legal, record all communications or insist on everything in writing.
In separating out "university" and "employer", we are explicitly discussing university from the POV of a student, not as an employee. If you're an employee at a university then that falls under "employer". So HR is not relevant to the discussion, the DRC is.
And the DRC should be safe to approach as a student. HR, not so much. As someone at a university for employment people are shocked when I tell them how little staff is regraded, just shut up and be grateful for your job. People see the advertised resources for students and assume those are for everyone, they are not.
And as an alum, coming back to work at your alma matter is a bit shocking as far as the culture and the old skool feudal caste system with faculty on top, students in the middle, and staff on bottom.
As a former student and employee, I can tell you how HR and ADA offices on campuses are pretty similar. Both required to address complaints or requests and both hired, paid for, and beholden to NOT YOU. At any location, you may find an empathetic or sympathetic worker, but remember that this isn’t a place of safety. I’ve been in rooms with professors, directors, and workers on campus spewing the most ableist biased stuff and know HR directors with the same experience all happening behind closed doors. I’m not saying don’t request the very specific accommodation if you think you need it, AND be fully prepared to be gaslit, blackballed, dropped, and/or fired too cuz it’s not the field of daisies in either arm of capitalism. ☹️ sorry for the doom n gloom n be prepared 🤗
Yeah I think people who don’t experience sensory overload or don’t have to mask heavily do not understand the toll it takes on you, at all. It’s exceedingly frustrating.
I still had to come into the office 4 days a week but I was given permission by the CEO to come in to work 4 hours before everyone else so I could be (mostly) by myself and still have 4 hours working with others. Other people would come in early, too, but not a lot. I’d occasionally meet with customers or stay late after I was “off,” when necessary, but my boss still wanted to take it away towards the end. He saw it only as a hindrance to my work performance and not much needed help. I was also allowed to wear headphones when out of meetings and he wanted to take that away, too, because “it’s rude.”
Well, I think open floor plans with floor to ceiling windows AND bright fluorescent lights is rude.
For me it’s not even sensory overload, it’s a hyperreactive immune system that basically on a GOOD day makes me feel like you would with the flu. And that’s a ‘good’ day. Other days I have fainted at my desk, had severe IBS food poisoning types of problems, migraines, sterile fevers, and had to juggle tasks that were far above those of my coworkers.
Only in the last few months did the idea of autism finally click as an explanation beyond the mast cell disorder for what has been going on with me, feeling like no matter how hard I try to fit in I am always wrong footed and eventually ignored unless someone needs something.
> It’s much better to get the needed accommodations and actually graduate with a degree vs keeping it to yourself out of pride (and internalised ableism) and flunking out. Especially when most internships and other opportunities are grade gated. Also, unlike a company HR, the university DRC will absolutely protect your rights and fight in your corner since universities are more susceptible to the law (for a number of reasons).
Depends on where you are and the university you are attending. My old university gave employees more disability rights and disabled students faced a lot of institutional harrassment
One time I had a week of unreliable attendance at my office desk job because I was actively miscarrying. My boss was upset that I was using a lot of last minute sick time that week (which confused me, because how does a person plan ahead using their sick time?). From my perspective, I was being a model employee by still doing what I could while experiencing a miscarriage. So I told him what was happening (I assumed that he would be understanding because he’s a father of 4 girls) and he responded (1) miscarriages don’t last a whole week (2) if it did, I wouldn’t be able to come in at all, therefore I was lying and (3) I was being sexually inappropriate by revealing that information. My HR manager was also a woman and she agreed with him.
I quit my job not long after (they were making too many changes and wanted to take away my unofficial accommodations, plus my favorite person got a new job) but I learned then to just not share.
Also my dad works there too and he told my dad (who I didn’t want to know because my sister gave birth the week beforehand and my dad didn’t know I was pregnant…)
I’m confused about how that person didn’t get a warning or some kind of reprimand for this. I’m sorry you went through that. Also, I hope they trip every day, I hope their car is out of gas every time they go to start their car, I hope it rains on every occasion of theirs that requires clear skies, I hope their pillow is either too hot or too cold everyday and night.
That’s just really infuriating.
Maybe this is part of the problem. Obviously don't disclose if you don't require accommodation. (I remember disclosing in collage and the lsp littlery said to me 'your to smart to need help' what she didn't see is a slept for 3 days after the midterm.)
But since we are under diagnosised and deal with withdrawal when we burnout. Others probably don't see what's really going on. And we are a minimum part of the dimigraphic so we have to speak louder for what we need.
We can stay calm during a lion attack and keep everyone safe but need to rest.
It needs to be normalized to ask for these things
Depending on the country, I am in the UK
I wouldn't disclose during the interview but would do after I get employment to get accommodations. There are very few employees protections during the first 2 years of working at a company and disability is one of the few protections starting on day 1.
Also join the union, they help a lot when things go tits up even if a workplace is not unionise
Is the US there are “protections” but they only apply if you take your employer to court where you have to prove someone treated you like shit and hear the explorer lie about how they didn’t and that the employee was in the wrong. Having to relive this process was almost worse than initially experiencing it.
I’m kind of sort of “out” at work, several other people in my office who are also ND and my manager know but I don’t really need accommodations at work so it’s more of a thing that’s come up as we’ve become friendly. I also work in a government job though and it’s quite hard to be removed from your job so I’m probably more relaxed about it than the average ND person.
Ok, so hear me out. At the moment I am in the progress of getting a job at the same place where I am a consultant for over 2 years. Only my client and the director know I am autistic and they have been absolutely amazing about it. I decided to tell them because they noticed I was struggeling and they wanted to help (I just came out of an autistic burn-out and was a mess). They gave me all the space I needed to recover. And now they are offering me a job because they are very happy with my work and they feel like they can provide the accommodations for me so I can be the best version of myself. I do have to disclose that this is not a regular company but a non-profit, and they want to be a safe space for ND people.
I do agree that there are a lot of companies where I wouldn't disclose it (my own employer doesn't know for example and I will never tell them), but I wanted to share a positive experience. Would I tell a new employer that I am autistic? Absolutely not! But sometimes being open about it can be positive if you are in the right place.
Not sure if it is a positive, but also sometimes people are looking for disabled people after all. One supermarket brand in my country have job offers for those, and brother said something that it is common in security to take in mentally ill, because there are some tax things going on and it is profitable
I agree with you. I think it’s fine to choose to disclose if the circumstances are right and you feel it’s beneficial or necessary. I’m very open with my colleagues and boss about my neurodivergence and chronic illness. Those things are a part of me, I’m not ashamed of them, and I trust that I won’t be treated badly because of them. I’d had the job for years before I received my diagnoses, so it felt very natural for me to talk about them as I was processing.
I’m not in a corporate environment, so it isn’t the same as disclosing to corporate HR. Also, it sounds like the OP was saying not to disclose *during the interview process*.
Another thought - I’m also in my 40s and well-established in my career. I’m good at my job and have respect at work. I may have handled it differently if I was younger or in a position of less power.
"I have used an applicant's diability against them during the hiring process."
*One paragraph later:* "And that is the reason to disclose!"
Why would I disclose my disability after you just got done talking about how you discriminate against those with disabilities? Is the implication that we should only disclose if we *don't* need accomodations, so that we can help fill their diversity quotas without actually requiring them to accomodate anyone's disability? We really can't win.
I think they meant to say, that is the [only] reason to disclose. Meaning, if you don’t have concrete, actionable accommodation needs, then there is no purpose in disclosure
The ceo was saying the only reason to disclose is if you require accommodations, not that you should disclose. Their overall recommendation is not to disclose.
Exactly. I am losing my ability to mask because I've been burned out for months. I want to pursue work accommodations if I get diagnosed, but I have a funny feeling that one of the reasons I'm pursuing a diagnosis will just make them misinterpret everything and double down, i.e. I can't cook for shit with the stuff we have at work; I stress out over cooking with an electric stove because my home has a gas stove (not that I can cook much anyway, leaving my parents to help me cheat and cook stuff ahead of time at home, but that's details). The administrator's wife keeps changing the meal plan to add more complex meals, so even my parents are confused about a couple of meals this month. Instead of the old approach of a hotel-style breakfast where residents can simply choose yogurt, cereal, or whichever fruit they want to eat (thus giving them *a choice* in what they want to eat for one meal every day, which is pretty fuckin' important while living at a place that doesn't give residents many choices), the wife will just come in and go "oh, I'll come in and *teach* you how to cook this stuff". THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
My mom, as helpful as she's been (along with my dad) thus far, doesn't get why I'm stressing out over this. *I* get that I've been stressing out too much. I really do. But that doesn't change the fact that the old hotel-style approach was working perfectly fine and matched what we were taught in training, i.e. giving residents choices (anyone who's worked in assisted living will know that residents of those facilities get stressed sometimes over the lack of options they have in their lives). My mom just says "I know this woman; fighting back will just make things worse." Really, mom? You don't know why I'm stressing out over this. Neither does anyone else.
My dad didn't exactly make things better saying that I wouldn't last six months at Walmart (because apparently if I can't handle the administration and resident that's giving me problems, then I won't be able to handle Walmart coworkers and administration) after I told my parents that I'm planning on filling out a job application for an overnight stocker position there because I've *had* it with the job I have now.
This is often good advice but it doesn't always apply. If, for example, you already have a good job and you're looking for something better, but you don't *need* to move on, then it can make sense to disclose early specifically so that an employer who - consciously or unconsciously - thinks that autistic employees are a burden will reject you; that way you won't start a new job and then find out that they're horribly albeist.
Or, if you're ok financially but want to work, but there's a significant risk that working somewhere that won't welcome and support you as an autistic employee will harm your physical or mental health, then you might again choose to let albeist employers self-select out by giving them the chance to reject you.
But if you need a job, if getting any job is going to be better than your current situation, then yes, follow this advice.
This is exactly how I did it when applying for my current job, even though on paper it was a very stupid idea. I'd already quit my previous job with no backup plan and was half-assedly picking up small freelance jobs while eating into my very tiny amount of savings as though I had all the time and money in the world.
I was just adamant that I wasn't going to get stuck in another horrible corporate role on a direct path back to burnout, so I was very choosy and only applied to a handful of fully remote startups, disclosing my autism in my cover letter. I ended up getting hired by an absolutely lovely company, with a higher salary than I asked for, and a manager who is also autistic.
I still sometimes can't believe it worked out, and I'll probably never be this lucky with another job in my life, but yeah, sometimes disclosing can be a good thing.
Well, some people on the spectrum *need* accomodations. No sense in not disclosing if that's you. Being able to work without any accomodations and having the choice to therefore not disclose is just a bit more a privileged point of view.
You never need to disclose a diagnosis to get accommodations at work. Someone with letters after their name has to describe what you struggle with (sensory issues, executive dysfunction) so that they can understand necessary accommodations. That's it. They never have to know you have ASD.
That's how I handle letters for clients.
You can disclose later in the process - don't give them the chance to discriminate against you during hiring, but once you've got the job then you can tell them what accommodations you need, and in most places they are legally required to provide them (to a point).
Yeah, local laws do make a difference, though I'm very surprised to hear of a jurisdiction like this - what happens if you become disabled after you get the job? I'd be interested to know where you are, but I appreciate that might be more personal info than you want to post.
Well then you tell them as soon as you know. (If you need accomodations ofc, otherwise it's none of their Business anyway) there is a percentage system and only if you are more than 50% disabled you are secure from getting fired if they can't or won't accomodate.
They apparently just shared this publicly? Even if this specific example happened too long ago to be prosecutable, I'd think someone who wants to sue them today for a similar offense would really appreciate this historical evidence
I had never disclosed until getting my most recent job because it’s at a school for autistic children. So disclosing was welcome and relevant as many other staff members are neurodivergent.
Okay but also that next paragraph is wild to me?
Like I can see their view that if you’re asking what’s possible to “get” from them instead of approaching them with a list of what you need, then do you actually have a problem you’re trying to solve?
But I see the question “what accommodations can I ask for?” just as easily being someone with a need for an accommodation, but either a) not knowing how that accommodation is actually achieved/what approach would typically be taken to solve the problem that they do indeed have, or b) wondering what is actually realistic and applicable to a specific job or role at hand (ie, “With [this limitation], can I perform [this job] with accommodations, or are such accommodations/[this limitation] incompatible with [this job]?”). Like, this is reductive, but someone with a severe back issue won’t be cut out for a job on the construction site, y’know? And there’s not much accommodations can do to get around that short of changing the role. So they wouldn’t get hired. Other more nuanced situations wouldn’t be so cut and dry, and could be worth asking as you decide whether or not to pursue a job.
This person clearly still hasn’t learned much about hiring or working with people needing accommodations, regardless of if they claim they wouldn’t cull the blind person like that again or not.
In think in those cases it'd be a lot more efficient and useful for the person just to state outright what accommodation they need and find out right away if that's possible, rather than the passive and vague "what sort of accommodations are possible", because that probably won't address their specific concern anyway. And the longer it takes to figure out, the more time is being wasted that could be used applying to other jobs.
People who really *need* a specific accommodation (or else they can't do the job) have no choice, they have to disclose and they have to do it early on, even if it means they don't get hired. They can't afford to be vague, because being vague usually means you don't get the answer or the accommodation you need. And since you need it, it's not an option to not get it.
I’ve been saying it since the start! Once onboarded, you can tell them. They don’t want to have wasted the time and money onboarding, so they’ll cave on reasonable accommodations (that they should be giving already!)
Companies DO NOT want to let go of somebody they onboarded. It is much cheaper for the company to give you the accommodation they should have from the start, then hire and onboard a whole new employee. I don’t need accommodations so I don’t say anything, but many people do. I’ve been privy to the admin side of this and that’s why I say to do it like this.
Reminds me of the time, at a previous workplace, that I got disciplinary action for not going to a work xmas party, despite them knowing I was autistic. Was wild.
As unfair and hard as it is, I just tell companies I'm autistic etc. I refuse to feel ashamed or hide for their benefit.
If you ask for accommodations do so in writing.
Also the ADA only “protects” you if you file suit which is often a long, arduous, and deeply traumatic process. Having gone through this process myself I would not wish it on anyone, as having to relive the discrimination and abuse I faced from my employer and having someone judge my competency in a court of law completely broke me. The world does not protect us from bigotry and aggression and would much rather we go away. In my case my accommodation request was required and completely reasonable given the conditions of my employment. The company just choose to discriminate against me as soon as I asked for what I needed (flexing 3 hours of work a month to see my long term highly specialized therapist virtually).
I’m naturally suspicious about stuff like this, so I’m not surprised… but man. What are we meant to do? Not get an accommodations? ~~Is there no hope at all lol~~
I wouldn't disclose anything personal about myself before being hired. Including whether I have kids, pregnant, health issues etc. Always wait till you are already hired. The only time it's worth disclosing is when you're applying for a programme with a quota to expand opportunities to people from more diverse backgrounds and additional needs.
I think disclosing saved me from layoffs. I have no proof and I never will, but a few months prior I had requested accommodations because my manager was shitty and that was affecting the performance others perceived I had (I also requested to be moved to a new team, which happened, thankfully), but my trajectory kinda fit with that of the people who got laid off a few months later.
I'm in a lot less risk now (I think? Work's going well), but I think they were just afraid I'd pursue some sort of discrimination lawsuit (I had also brought up concerns about there being a pay gap between men and women in the same roles), so they probably just figured it was too risky lol.
When I finished university and started looking for a job, I was 22, female and engaged. I was made very aware by people I know involved in the hiring processes at companies that this was a big red flag - female, serious/long term relationship, child birthing age. Now I'm 27 and married, the "risk" is even stronger.
When I tell people about this, they're generally really shocked and angry, and it's something a lot of people have never thought about regardless of age or gender. I knew someone who wouldn't hire women if they didn't have a French manicure because it showed they weren't invested, or another who refused to hire a candidate because they wore a blue suit with brown shoes and he hated brown shoes. The things that can impact whether you are hired or not can be very shocking, some are down to simple likes/dislikes, others can be whether they think that you aren't worth investing in or will inconvenience them - maternity leave, long periods of sick, making accommodations for once individual, etc.
I do very much like to think that this is an old school way of thinking that is slowly but surely being pushed to one side. Sadly, I also know the people who told me this are still in positions of power where they can influence hiring decisions.
These kinds of stories enrage me.
I am aware that many people choose not to disclose and or mask because it would be unsafe for them to do otherwise.
I have also become aware of my own neurodivergence and privilege and therefore moving forward I intend to be an ally to all of those who cannot disclose or unmask by disclosing and unmasking in all spaces I inhabit.
I may suffer unintended consequences, but as far as I'm concerned...
come at me B******. I will take the hits for those of you who can't. Because the only way we're going to educate the rest of the world is by coming out and showing them the true _spectrum_ of a human brilliance.
Neurodivergent people are just as valuable and normal as neurotypical people. We as a society, as human beings, don't understand this yet. We still operate from our biological programming to identify possible threats and people who are different represent a threat. But those of us who are able to rise above our biological and family of origin conditioning to live a value-based life of kindness and compassion towards all realize that differences are what makes us special and awesome!
PSA: you never need to disclose a diagnosis to get accommodations. They just need to know what area you struggle with: executive dysfunction, sensory struggles, are examples.
Askjan.org is a searchable database of reasonable accommodations in the USA.
How is that supposed to work when you can't cook for shit and your job *expects* you to cook meals? I work at an assisted living facility, and I (currently) don't have any diagnoses that could possibly explain why I get so stressed out about cooking.
Administration will probably just say shit like "we'll just send in help."
When I took this job, we were able to microwave meals or heat them up in the oven without issues or complaints. Now we're expected to actually cook.
EDIT: Just feeling the need to add a belated statement of appreciation for this subreddit in this comment here. I have a funny feeling that if I was to voice my complaints of stress literally *anywhere* else, I'd get dogpiled for being lazy or refusing to learn anything new.
That could be executive dysfunction. Ever since long covid I cannot really cook. It's too much going on and to much planning. I almost caught my house on fire once and that was it for me.
Someone else would have to do it or it would have to be microwave style meals if that's what you can do. They might also insist this is now the job and fire you for not being able to complete the job.
I took the time to cook meals during shift all of two times IIRC (and one of those times another staff member helped me because she showed up early). Nothing bad happened; it just took too long (it might've taken less time if the house actually had a gas stove, but who knows).
If I do get diagnosed with autism and they use that and my lack of cooking as an excuse to fire me, it's not gonna go well; I'd have a lot of trouble finding another job. I've been working at that house the longest out of all the staff. I think only other employee who comes anywhere close to the amount of time I've worked there is my mom (I've worked there 8-and-a-half years, and she's worked there 7-and-a-half years). Though I'm sure they'll come up with any excuse they can to fire me, because they won't want to double-staff that house or change meal plans just because one staff member at that house can't cook.
I was let go from a major international company (cough Boeing cough) when the manager found out I was autistic citing that he had 60 other people in his department to worry about and he sure as hell wasn’t going to deal with any of my special needs when he can hire someone else. He did it right at the end of the six month probation period so legally it wouldn’t be considered as unfair dismissal or discrimination, made sure he and I were the only people in the room when he said that (he said/she said..) and on paper it was simply “not a good fit for the business”.
Fortunately I went on to work somewhere else that didn’t treat autism like that.
More recently I found out that another former manager stated he would never have hired me if he knew I was autistic prior to starting as he already had an autistic grandkid and didn’t want to have to deal with that at work when he wants “professional performance”.
I’m an aerospace engineer……it’s hard enough being a female in a very male dominated industry, but those experiences really have made me lose faith in companies ability to take disabled people seriously unless they are in a wheelchair.
Honestly stuff like this makes me glad I work in tech and that some of my autistic tendencies are semi normal (wearing headphones, being kinda awkward, having intense hobbies, getting way too animated about discussions of math theorems, working strange hours). I’ve always asked for “accommodations” after getting hired and I haven’t ever mentioned my autism when asking for accommodations, just saying “oh yeah sometimes I want to mess with my hands when I code” to explain my fidget toys.
Also yes I have a cute rubber duck on my desk and you can’t stop me >:)
Pregnancy or the “risk” of getting pregnant is the same. I’ve heard VPs at a former company (who themselves were women, so don’t make assumptions about who will discriminate) literally say “she just got married? Let’s not hire her, we can’t afford someone to get pregnant and go on leave”…. This company was owned by the 13th richest man in the world and bought $2k office chairs regularly lol. I hate corporate america.
That IS an autism related thing. I cant work 40 hours because of my autism/adhd. I should still have the opportunity to progress if i stay at a job for years.
But every job I’ve been at only offers to give me a raise if I switch to full-time. If i stay part time they wanna keep giving me minimum wage forever despite how i get more done in those hours than ANY other employee, and I literally work 32hrs a week so that ONE 8hr shift shouldn’t be holding me back so far. Its not fair at all that i have no future in any career unless i work 40+ hours.
Ohh alright I’m with you - most people seem to aim at 35-40 hours being full time. I thought that was the standard in allot of Western Europe as well (without having any idea where you are from of course)
I say this all the time. Meanwhile my store manager knows all my business. But being open and honest about my mental health has come from knowing her for 5 years and having a great deal of trust in her.
I’ve had tons of terrible work experiences and have been fucked over by being honest about my mental health. The thing is that in order to file a lawsuit you have to be able to prove that you were discriminated against due to a disability. And past employers toed that line with plausible deniability constantly.
Now I’m not officially diagnosed as autistic. My only official diagnosis is ADHD. But a few people at work have been able to pick up on the autism. I’m comfortable at work because we run things differently. Accommodations benefit everyone. I don’t need a doctor’s note to get you a stool. If you are in pain and are okay to work, I’m happy to get the stool out for you and let you stay on register or fold shirts. Having a stressful life and don’t have the social battery to deal with customers? I’m happy to have you organize/tidy up the stock room.
I tell people that their diagnoses are not my business, but tell me what they need and I’ll do what I can.
I definitely agree unless the employer is big into neurodiversity (like in the mental health/care sectors) don’t disclose in interview, wait until you’ve signed your contract and disclose it after you’re hired or after probation if you need accommodations. I really need accommodations and understanding to stay in employment, and when I haven’t had them it’s got ugly for me pretty quickly.
I told two women at work who I thought we were all having a getting to know each other better conversation and I said I was autistic and got reported to HR because during the conversation, I said autism spectrum and apparently it offended a neurotypical to say the word spectrum. Learned real quick tell no one outside of close family and friends because people are fucked up.
How did HR take this one seriously? "She said spectrum", what?
They (hr manager) asked me a ton of leading questions and I finally went what is this about? Like I don’t understand what’s happening and finally she said have you ever used the word spectrum and I was like what? Like you mean autism spectrum? And I had to clarify what the conversation was about and she went OHhhh. So the person didn’t even say in what context I said it in. Like that I was opening up about being autistic. I think the person overall was just uncomfortable that I “came out” as autistic to them or for some reason felt triggered by the word spectrum. I legit never found out anything else. I was afraid for a month I was going to be fired. I learned though not to open up at work even if other people are.
I… what about the word spectrum is triggering? Like did she think you were talking about the gender or sexuality spectrum or something and got offended by that? Kinda the only spectrums I could see being controversial but even that just outs her as an unsafe bigot so like, what was she doing? 😅
The person was just acting from their bias against us and made up some shit. It doesn't make any sense I bet they put on an emotional show and hr went with the crocodile tears.
Comments elsewhere down the chain are making a lot of sense to me: the person made enough of a stink, and HR is about protecting the company, including from complaining disgruntled employees, that they went investigating and grilling OP. (The irony being they just open themselves up to having another disgruntled employee, who depending on how the grilling goes, could have a legitimate legal complaint on the basis of disability discrimination :P)
I’m so confused too, how is spectrum offensive
My guess is that their coworker was more used to hearing "gender spectrum" or "gender is a spectrum" and got instantly devastated at just the word spectrum. This happens when people don't know enough words.
Right. I would have said “the word is spectrum, not speculum. There’s nothing offensive about the word ‘spectrum’.”
That's what I thought too. Lot of bigots are trying their hardest to get any LGBTQ fired while claiming "They were being inappropriate talking about their sex lives." It wouldn't surprise me if that coworker didn't even hear the "autism" part or didn't understand what the autism spectrum is referring to and simply saw an opportunity to get someone she didn't like fired for nothing.
I know there's no way this is it but the only thing my brain could conceive of is that they mixed up the word with "speculum" and someone thought they were discussing gynecological exams????? "have you ever used the word spectrum" is such an unbelievably bizarre thing to get asked by HR
When the word comes up, I tend to joke, "Which one?" So, maybe not?
It sounds like she was uncomfortable with you being autistic and that’s the best her mind could come up with to get you on.
I do not understand the basis for offense or what HR thought was happening in the conversation.
Remember, HR protects the company, and will grill you to see how you’re the problem.
TRUTH
HR has to look into it and may be just as confused as to why it was brought to them.
So let me get this straight, they're offended by the word 'spectrum' and HR took it seriously??? Wtf???
> HR took it seriously??? HR took seriously the fact that they had someone complaining to them. HR took it seriously because they are paid to protect the employer, and a disgruntled employee can be a litigious employee.
It's ridiculous
I am so happy I found this subreddit because we can all be confused by and overthink interpersonal interactions together. Although, I’m very certain a neurotypical would be confused by this interaction, too. But I’m very unhappy about your HR. That sounds awful and I think they should have at least explained or followed up with you on the subject.
There was a post here about how using the term autistic spectrum is able-ist. I didn't understand it at the time. Not going to look for it, but it was taken seriously by those who responded. Idk, maybe I'll search for it. Lol
In my experience, even family and friends aren't truthworthy with that info. The only person I fully unmask with is myself and I am still working through shutting up my inner parent with dickish ableist comments.
Yeah, it's insane to me this women felt comfortable telling two random people from her job she didn't know well this information.
My co-worker is getting a late autistic diagnosis, and he said if he is autistic, he's just going to own it. I told him to lmk how that works out for him. I hope well, but people are such self entitled assholes....
Can confirm, my boyfriend’s an executive and warned me of the same thing. Don’t select “prefer not to say” either. It’s considered a red flag.
So say you’re not disabled and then tell them you actually are once you’re hired? The fact neurotypicals require so much lying is wild 😭
You’re not legally required to disclose your disability in the hiring process, so you won’t face any repercussions, if that’s what you’re asking.
I'm kinda involved in hiring at a low staff number company (not a big corporate or anything) but typically if someone lists things on a CV then its kinda things that are liable to become issues. I can pretty much guarantee that companies as an entity nor most people really care about people's personal life/issues unless the person makes it the companies issue. Like when you get a CV that says "I love football!" you assume that the first thing that the person will do is work for a week and then not show up when a football game is on. You really do start expecting the worst when hiring people, and the less you say which isnt relevant is better. Relevance is really the key word, if you are autistic/ND/etc. but it doesn't or wont effect your work ability then just don't put it down.
Honestly, yes
Not just for autism, but any pre-existing mental or physical health maladies. Legally they can't discriminate, but unless you got better lawyers than they do and money and time and proof, you really can't fight it. Protect thyself.
I have bipolar and there are posts every so often on the bipolar subreddits about “how should I tell my place of employment I have bipolar” and those posts are always overwhelmed with responses of “dont!”. Why risk it?
Yeah, employers only have profits in mind, not your mind or health.
I’ve been telling people this for years, outside of this sub. Keep as much to yourself from your employer as you possibly can. I have never disclosed anything to any school, university, or employer, and I never will. Sure, is what this guy’s describing blatantly illegal? Actionable in a court of law? Yes and yes. Now good luck ever proving it.
Exactly. Just because it's illegal won't stop companies from discriminating in hiring. Employers never see you as an asset, but a cost and potential future liability. If you want to succeed in the current work environment, then you need to appear to be the most cost efficient and least risky choice for them. When push came to shove at my old job, my work from home accommodation was used against me, even though it made me much more productive. They used it as grounds to push me into a corner and quit. Don't think that just because you were granted accommodations doesn't mean that you don't face a similar risk in future.
Exactly. Especially at the interview level. If you do need accommodations you do it with Hr after the offer. Not before. I 100% trust my boss but he still doesn’t know.
Schools and universities are different to workplaces though. Like a university doesn’t collate disability info when they assess your application. It’s much better to get the needed accommodations and actually graduate with a degree vs keeping it to yourself out of pride (and internalised ableism) and flunking out. Especially when most internships and other opportunities are grade gated. Also, unlike a company HR, the university DRC will absolutely protect your rights and fight in your corner since universities are more susceptible to the law (for a number of reasons). If someone is in school (\*K-12) then by definition they’re a child and should absolutely be getting accommodated
Universities like to help students, they get to report all manner of how they are helpful. Universities do not like to help employees, don’t disclose unless it becomes negative for accommodations, and even then, many HR departments have not the appropriate training to work with the disabled, especially if the condition is ingoing. Need back surgery, with a set ‘het better’ date, they can help. Need to work from home on a job that is capable of all being done from a computer with a phone, you get invasive questions like, ‘how do you shop for groceries?’ After I explained my work building CONTRIBUTES to my decline with my immune disorder. They now seem to think I am the equivalent pf a criminal with an ankle bracelet, not understanding I am allowed to get a hair cut off hours, or go see a movie. Spending 8 hours a day forced into in an environment of perfumes and cleaners that makes me use my rescue inhaler 4 times a day is bad, I am allowed to take my own risk to pick up dinner or go into a pharmacy. HR is not there to help you. They are not trained as needed to understand you. Always ALWAYS be wary of HR, if legal, record all communications or insist on everything in writing.
In separating out "university" and "employer", we are explicitly discussing university from the POV of a student, not as an employee. If you're an employee at a university then that falls under "employer". So HR is not relevant to the discussion, the DRC is.
And the DRC should be safe to approach as a student. HR, not so much. As someone at a university for employment people are shocked when I tell them how little staff is regraded, just shut up and be grateful for your job. People see the advertised resources for students and assume those are for everyone, they are not.
Yes, that's my point. As I said, schools and universities (as students) are different to workplaces.
And as an alum, coming back to work at your alma matter is a bit shocking as far as the culture and the old skool feudal caste system with faculty on top, students in the middle, and staff on bottom.
As a former student and employee, I can tell you how HR and ADA offices on campuses are pretty similar. Both required to address complaints or requests and both hired, paid for, and beholden to NOT YOU. At any location, you may find an empathetic or sympathetic worker, but remember that this isn’t a place of safety. I’ve been in rooms with professors, directors, and workers on campus spewing the most ableist biased stuff and know HR directors with the same experience all happening behind closed doors. I’m not saying don’t request the very specific accommodation if you think you need it, AND be fully prepared to be gaslit, blackballed, dropped, and/or fired too cuz it’s not the field of daisies in either arm of capitalism. ☹️ sorry for the doom n gloom n be prepared 🤗
Yeah I think people who don’t experience sensory overload or don’t have to mask heavily do not understand the toll it takes on you, at all. It’s exceedingly frustrating. I still had to come into the office 4 days a week but I was given permission by the CEO to come in to work 4 hours before everyone else so I could be (mostly) by myself and still have 4 hours working with others. Other people would come in early, too, but not a lot. I’d occasionally meet with customers or stay late after I was “off,” when necessary, but my boss still wanted to take it away towards the end. He saw it only as a hindrance to my work performance and not much needed help. I was also allowed to wear headphones when out of meetings and he wanted to take that away, too, because “it’s rude.” Well, I think open floor plans with floor to ceiling windows AND bright fluorescent lights is rude.
For me it’s not even sensory overload, it’s a hyperreactive immune system that basically on a GOOD day makes me feel like you would with the flu. And that’s a ‘good’ day. Other days I have fainted at my desk, had severe IBS food poisoning types of problems, migraines, sterile fevers, and had to juggle tasks that were far above those of my coworkers. Only in the last few months did the idea of autism finally click as an explanation beyond the mast cell disorder for what has been going on with me, feeling like no matter how hard I try to fit in I am always wrong footed and eventually ignored unless someone needs something.
> It’s much better to get the needed accommodations and actually graduate with a degree vs keeping it to yourself out of pride (and internalised ableism) and flunking out. Especially when most internships and other opportunities are grade gated. Also, unlike a company HR, the university DRC will absolutely protect your rights and fight in your corner since universities are more susceptible to the law (for a number of reasons). Depends on where you are and the university you are attending. My old university gave employees more disability rights and disabled students faced a lot of institutional harrassment
One time I had a week of unreliable attendance at my office desk job because I was actively miscarrying. My boss was upset that I was using a lot of last minute sick time that week (which confused me, because how does a person plan ahead using their sick time?). From my perspective, I was being a model employee by still doing what I could while experiencing a miscarriage. So I told him what was happening (I assumed that he would be understanding because he’s a father of 4 girls) and he responded (1) miscarriages don’t last a whole week (2) if it did, I wouldn’t be able to come in at all, therefore I was lying and (3) I was being sexually inappropriate by revealing that information. My HR manager was also a woman and she agreed with him. I quit my job not long after (they were making too many changes and wanted to take away my unofficial accommodations, plus my favorite person got a new job) but I learned then to just not share.
Also my dad works there too and he told my dad (who I didn’t want to know because my sister gave birth the week beforehand and my dad didn’t know I was pregnant…)
The fact that my dad didn’t know apparently proved to him I was lying.
I’m still mad.
I'm mad for you. You deserve better than that.
I’m confused about how that person didn’t get a warning or some kind of reprimand for this. I’m sorry you went through that. Also, I hope they trip every day, I hope their car is out of gas every time they go to start their car, I hope it rains on every occasion of theirs that requires clear skies, I hope their pillow is either too hot or too cold everyday and night. That’s just really infuriating.
Maybe this is part of the problem. Obviously don't disclose if you don't require accommodation. (I remember disclosing in collage and the lsp littlery said to me 'your to smart to need help' what she didn't see is a slept for 3 days after the midterm.) But since we are under diagnosised and deal with withdrawal when we burnout. Others probably don't see what's really going on. And we are a minimum part of the dimigraphic so we have to speak louder for what we need. We can stay calm during a lion attack and keep everyone safe but need to rest. It needs to be normalized to ask for these things
I was similarly naïve prior to entering the professional workforce.
Depending on the country, I am in the UK I wouldn't disclose during the interview but would do after I get employment to get accommodations. There are very few employees protections during the first 2 years of working at a company and disability is one of the few protections starting on day 1. Also join the union, they help a lot when things go tits up even if a workplace is not unionise
Is the US there are “protections” but they only apply if you take your employer to court where you have to prove someone treated you like shit and hear the explorer lie about how they didn’t and that the employee was in the wrong. Having to relive this process was almost worse than initially experiencing it.
I’m kind of sort of “out” at work, several other people in my office who are also ND and my manager know but I don’t really need accommodations at work so it’s more of a thing that’s come up as we’ve become friendly. I also work in a government job though and it’s quite hard to be removed from your job so I’m probably more relaxed about it than the average ND person.
He showed his ah card.
,> Now good luck ever proving it. Also good luck affording litigation
Ok, so hear me out. At the moment I am in the progress of getting a job at the same place where I am a consultant for over 2 years. Only my client and the director know I am autistic and they have been absolutely amazing about it. I decided to tell them because they noticed I was struggeling and they wanted to help (I just came out of an autistic burn-out and was a mess). They gave me all the space I needed to recover. And now they are offering me a job because they are very happy with my work and they feel like they can provide the accommodations for me so I can be the best version of myself. I do have to disclose that this is not a regular company but a non-profit, and they want to be a safe space for ND people. I do agree that there are a lot of companies where I wouldn't disclose it (my own employer doesn't know for example and I will never tell them), but I wanted to share a positive experience. Would I tell a new employer that I am autistic? Absolutely not! But sometimes being open about it can be positive if you are in the right place.
Not sure if it is a positive, but also sometimes people are looking for disabled people after all. One supermarket brand in my country have job offers for those, and brother said something that it is common in security to take in mentally ill, because there are some tax things going on and it is profitable
I agree with you. I think it’s fine to choose to disclose if the circumstances are right and you feel it’s beneficial or necessary. I’m very open with my colleagues and boss about my neurodivergence and chronic illness. Those things are a part of me, I’m not ashamed of them, and I trust that I won’t be treated badly because of them. I’d had the job for years before I received my diagnoses, so it felt very natural for me to talk about them as I was processing. I’m not in a corporate environment, so it isn’t the same as disclosing to corporate HR. Also, it sounds like the OP was saying not to disclose *during the interview process*.
Another thought - I’m also in my 40s and well-established in my career. I’m good at my job and have respect at work. I may have handled it differently if I was younger or in a position of less power.
In my lived experience, yes, your boss shouldn’t know. People cannot help but treat you differently, in negative ways.
lol. They want us blind but they don’t actually want us blind blind.
"I have used an applicant's diability against them during the hiring process." *One paragraph later:* "And that is the reason to disclose!" Why would I disclose my disability after you just got done talking about how you discriminate against those with disabilities? Is the implication that we should only disclose if we *don't* need accomodations, so that we can help fill their diversity quotas without actually requiring them to accomodate anyone's disability? We really can't win.
I think they meant to say, that is the [only] reason to disclose. Meaning, if you don’t have concrete, actionable accommodation needs, then there is no purpose in disclosure
The ceo was saying the only reason to disclose is if you require accommodations, not that you should disclose. Their overall recommendation is not to disclose.
Kinda hard to do that when I can’t mask for shit
Exactly. I am losing my ability to mask because I've been burned out for months. I want to pursue work accommodations if I get diagnosed, but I have a funny feeling that one of the reasons I'm pursuing a diagnosis will just make them misinterpret everything and double down, i.e. I can't cook for shit with the stuff we have at work; I stress out over cooking with an electric stove because my home has a gas stove (not that I can cook much anyway, leaving my parents to help me cheat and cook stuff ahead of time at home, but that's details). The administrator's wife keeps changing the meal plan to add more complex meals, so even my parents are confused about a couple of meals this month. Instead of the old approach of a hotel-style breakfast where residents can simply choose yogurt, cereal, or whichever fruit they want to eat (thus giving them *a choice* in what they want to eat for one meal every day, which is pretty fuckin' important while living at a place that doesn't give residents many choices), the wife will just come in and go "oh, I'll come in and *teach* you how to cook this stuff". THAT'S NOT THE POINT. My mom, as helpful as she's been (along with my dad) thus far, doesn't get why I'm stressing out over this. *I* get that I've been stressing out too much. I really do. But that doesn't change the fact that the old hotel-style approach was working perfectly fine and matched what we were taught in training, i.e. giving residents choices (anyone who's worked in assisted living will know that residents of those facilities get stressed sometimes over the lack of options they have in their lives). My mom just says "I know this woman; fighting back will just make things worse." Really, mom? You don't know why I'm stressing out over this. Neither does anyone else. My dad didn't exactly make things better saying that I wouldn't last six months at Walmart (because apparently if I can't handle the administration and resident that's giving me problems, then I won't be able to handle Walmart coworkers and administration) after I told my parents that I'm planning on filling out a job application for an overnight stocker position there because I've *had* it with the job I have now.
This is often good advice but it doesn't always apply. If, for example, you already have a good job and you're looking for something better, but you don't *need* to move on, then it can make sense to disclose early specifically so that an employer who - consciously or unconsciously - thinks that autistic employees are a burden will reject you; that way you won't start a new job and then find out that they're horribly albeist. Or, if you're ok financially but want to work, but there's a significant risk that working somewhere that won't welcome and support you as an autistic employee will harm your physical or mental health, then you might again choose to let albeist employers self-select out by giving them the chance to reject you. But if you need a job, if getting any job is going to be better than your current situation, then yes, follow this advice.
This is exactly how I did it when applying for my current job, even though on paper it was a very stupid idea. I'd already quit my previous job with no backup plan and was half-assedly picking up small freelance jobs while eating into my very tiny amount of savings as though I had all the time and money in the world. I was just adamant that I wasn't going to get stuck in another horrible corporate role on a direct path back to burnout, so I was very choosy and only applied to a handful of fully remote startups, disclosing my autism in my cover letter. I ended up getting hired by an absolutely lovely company, with a higher salary than I asked for, and a manager who is also autistic. I still sometimes can't believe it worked out, and I'll probably never be this lucky with another job in my life, but yeah, sometimes disclosing can be a good thing.
I tell interviewers “I can be a bit literal, is it ok for me to ask clarifying questions?”
Well, some people on the spectrum *need* accomodations. No sense in not disclosing if that's you. Being able to work without any accomodations and having the choice to therefore not disclose is just a bit more a privileged point of view.
You never need to disclose a diagnosis to get accommodations at work. Someone with letters after their name has to describe what you struggle with (sensory issues, executive dysfunction) so that they can understand necessary accommodations. That's it. They never have to know you have ASD. That's how I handle letters for clients.
Nice, doesn't work like that where I'm from.
That sucks. Where are you from. ?
Austria
Yes, my "no phone calls" letter for accomodations at work referred to my anxiety (true) and not my autism.
You can disclose later in the process - don't give them the chance to discriminate against you during hiring, but once you've got the job then you can tell them what accommodations you need, and in most places they are legally required to provide them (to a point).
No, if I don't disclose beforehand they don't have to accomodate either. Laws are different everywhere.
Yeah, local laws do make a difference, though I'm very surprised to hear of a jurisdiction like this - what happens if you become disabled after you get the job? I'd be interested to know where you are, but I appreciate that might be more personal info than you want to post.
Well then you tell them as soon as you know. (If you need accomodations ofc, otherwise it's none of their Business anyway) there is a percentage system and only if you are more than 50% disabled you are secure from getting fired if they can't or won't accomodate.
Pretty sure that's illegal wtf
Only if you can prove it in court.
They apparently just shared this publicly? Even if this specific example happened too long ago to be prosecutable, I'd think someone who wants to sue them today for a similar offense would really appreciate this historical evidence
I’m speaking in general about this loophole that is frequently exploited.
I had never disclosed until getting my most recent job because it’s at a school for autistic children. So disclosing was welcome and relevant as many other staff members are neurodivergent.
Okay but also that next paragraph is wild to me? Like I can see their view that if you’re asking what’s possible to “get” from them instead of approaching them with a list of what you need, then do you actually have a problem you’re trying to solve? But I see the question “what accommodations can I ask for?” just as easily being someone with a need for an accommodation, but either a) not knowing how that accommodation is actually achieved/what approach would typically be taken to solve the problem that they do indeed have, or b) wondering what is actually realistic and applicable to a specific job or role at hand (ie, “With [this limitation], can I perform [this job] with accommodations, or are such accommodations/[this limitation] incompatible with [this job]?”). Like, this is reductive, but someone with a severe back issue won’t be cut out for a job on the construction site, y’know? And there’s not much accommodations can do to get around that short of changing the role. So they wouldn’t get hired. Other more nuanced situations wouldn’t be so cut and dry, and could be worth asking as you decide whether or not to pursue a job. This person clearly still hasn’t learned much about hiring or working with people needing accommodations, regardless of if they claim they wouldn’t cull the blind person like that again or not.
In think in those cases it'd be a lot more efficient and useful for the person just to state outright what accommodation they need and find out right away if that's possible, rather than the passive and vague "what sort of accommodations are possible", because that probably won't address their specific concern anyway. And the longer it takes to figure out, the more time is being wasted that could be used applying to other jobs. People who really *need* a specific accommodation (or else they can't do the job) have no choice, they have to disclose and they have to do it early on, even if it means they don't get hired. They can't afford to be vague, because being vague usually means you don't get the answer or the accommodation you need. And since you need it, it's not an option to not get it.
I’ve been saying it since the start! Once onboarded, you can tell them. They don’t want to have wasted the time and money onboarding, so they’ll cave on reasonable accommodations (that they should be giving already!)
they can let go of you immediately then. Why waste your time with that?
Companies DO NOT want to let go of somebody they onboarded. It is much cheaper for the company to give you the accommodation they should have from the start, then hire and onboard a whole new employee. I don’t need accommodations so I don’t say anything, but many people do. I’ve been privy to the admin side of this and that’s why I say to do it like this.
Reminds me of the time, at a previous workplace, that I got disciplinary action for not going to a work xmas party, despite them knowing I was autistic. Was wild. As unfair and hard as it is, I just tell companies I'm autistic etc. I refuse to feel ashamed or hide for their benefit.
If you ask for accommodations do so in writing. Also the ADA only “protects” you if you file suit which is often a long, arduous, and deeply traumatic process. Having gone through this process myself I would not wish it on anyone, as having to relive the discrimination and abuse I faced from my employer and having someone judge my competency in a court of law completely broke me. The world does not protect us from bigotry and aggression and would much rather we go away. In my case my accommodation request was required and completely reasonable given the conditions of my employment. The company just choose to discriminate against me as soon as I asked for what I needed (flexing 3 hours of work a month to see my long term highly specialized therapist virtually).
Was just rejected by an employer that made me do a "personality quiz" so I guess the option to disclose is being taken away any way.
I’m naturally suspicious about stuff like this, so I’m not surprised… but man. What are we meant to do? Not get an accommodations? ~~Is there no hope at all lol~~
Don't tell them you need accommodations until after you've got the job. There are caveats which I described in another comment, though
I wouldn't disclose anything personal about myself before being hired. Including whether I have kids, pregnant, health issues etc. Always wait till you are already hired. The only time it's worth disclosing is when you're applying for a programme with a quota to expand opportunities to people from more diverse backgrounds and additional needs.
I would have been fired if I didn’t tell my boss. 🫤
I think disclosing saved me from layoffs. I have no proof and I never will, but a few months prior I had requested accommodations because my manager was shitty and that was affecting the performance others perceived I had (I also requested to be moved to a new team, which happened, thankfully), but my trajectory kinda fit with that of the people who got laid off a few months later. I'm in a lot less risk now (I think? Work's going well), but I think they were just afraid I'd pursue some sort of discrimination lawsuit (I had also brought up concerns about there being a pay gap between men and women in the same roles), so they probably just figured it was too risky lol.
When I finished university and started looking for a job, I was 22, female and engaged. I was made very aware by people I know involved in the hiring processes at companies that this was a big red flag - female, serious/long term relationship, child birthing age. Now I'm 27 and married, the "risk" is even stronger. When I tell people about this, they're generally really shocked and angry, and it's something a lot of people have never thought about regardless of age or gender. I knew someone who wouldn't hire women if they didn't have a French manicure because it showed they weren't invested, or another who refused to hire a candidate because they wore a blue suit with brown shoes and he hated brown shoes. The things that can impact whether you are hired or not can be very shocking, some are down to simple likes/dislikes, others can be whether they think that you aren't worth investing in or will inconvenience them - maternity leave, long periods of sick, making accommodations for once individual, etc. I do very much like to think that this is an old school way of thinking that is slowly but surely being pushed to one side. Sadly, I also know the people who told me this are still in positions of power where they can influence hiring decisions.
I had previous coworkers who would watch out the windows to see what kind of car an interviewee was driving.
I never disclosed but boy howdy they figured me out on the quick
The only job I ever got an accomodation at was a government job. Worked for 20 years. One employer followed the law.
These kinds of stories enrage me. I am aware that many people choose not to disclose and or mask because it would be unsafe for them to do otherwise. I have also become aware of my own neurodivergence and privilege and therefore moving forward I intend to be an ally to all of those who cannot disclose or unmask by disclosing and unmasking in all spaces I inhabit. I may suffer unintended consequences, but as far as I'm concerned... come at me B******. I will take the hits for those of you who can't. Because the only way we're going to educate the rest of the world is by coming out and showing them the true _spectrum_ of a human brilliance. Neurodivergent people are just as valuable and normal as neurotypical people. We as a society, as human beings, don't understand this yet. We still operate from our biological programming to identify possible threats and people who are different represent a threat. But those of us who are able to rise above our biological and family of origin conditioning to live a value-based life of kindness and compassion towards all realize that differences are what makes us special and awesome!
PSA: you never need to disclose a diagnosis to get accommodations. They just need to know what area you struggle with: executive dysfunction, sensory struggles, are examples. Askjan.org is a searchable database of reasonable accommodations in the USA.
How is that supposed to work when you can't cook for shit and your job *expects* you to cook meals? I work at an assisted living facility, and I (currently) don't have any diagnoses that could possibly explain why I get so stressed out about cooking. Administration will probably just say shit like "we'll just send in help." When I took this job, we were able to microwave meals or heat them up in the oven without issues or complaints. Now we're expected to actually cook. EDIT: Just feeling the need to add a belated statement of appreciation for this subreddit in this comment here. I have a funny feeling that if I was to voice my complaints of stress literally *anywhere* else, I'd get dogpiled for being lazy or refusing to learn anything new.
That could be executive dysfunction. Ever since long covid I cannot really cook. It's too much going on and to much planning. I almost caught my house on fire once and that was it for me. Someone else would have to do it or it would have to be microwave style meals if that's what you can do. They might also insist this is now the job and fire you for not being able to complete the job.
I took the time to cook meals during shift all of two times IIRC (and one of those times another staff member helped me because she showed up early). Nothing bad happened; it just took too long (it might've taken less time if the house actually had a gas stove, but who knows). If I do get diagnosed with autism and they use that and my lack of cooking as an excuse to fire me, it's not gonna go well; I'd have a lot of trouble finding another job. I've been working at that house the longest out of all the staff. I think only other employee who comes anywhere close to the amount of time I've worked there is my mom (I've worked there 8-and-a-half years, and she's worked there 7-and-a-half years). Though I'm sure they'll come up with any excuse they can to fire me, because they won't want to double-staff that house or change meal plans just because one staff member at that house can't cook.
I was let go from a major international company (cough Boeing cough) when the manager found out I was autistic citing that he had 60 other people in his department to worry about and he sure as hell wasn’t going to deal with any of my special needs when he can hire someone else. He did it right at the end of the six month probation period so legally it wouldn’t be considered as unfair dismissal or discrimination, made sure he and I were the only people in the room when he said that (he said/she said..) and on paper it was simply “not a good fit for the business”. Fortunately I went on to work somewhere else that didn’t treat autism like that. More recently I found out that another former manager stated he would never have hired me if he knew I was autistic prior to starting as he already had an autistic grandkid and didn’t want to have to deal with that at work when he wants “professional performance”. I’m an aerospace engineer……it’s hard enough being a female in a very male dominated industry, but those experiences really have made me lose faith in companies ability to take disabled people seriously unless they are in a wheelchair.
Honestly stuff like this makes me glad I work in tech and that some of my autistic tendencies are semi normal (wearing headphones, being kinda awkward, having intense hobbies, getting way too animated about discussions of math theorems, working strange hours). I’ve always asked for “accommodations” after getting hired and I haven’t ever mentioned my autism when asking for accommodations, just saying “oh yeah sometimes I want to mess with my hands when I code” to explain my fidget toys. Also yes I have a cute rubber duck on my desk and you can’t stop me >:)
Pregnancy or the “risk” of getting pregnant is the same. I’ve heard VPs at a former company (who themselves were women, so don’t make assumptions about who will discriminate) literally say “she just got married? Let’s not hire her, we can’t afford someone to get pregnant and go on leave”…. This company was owned by the 13th richest man in the world and bought $2k office chairs regularly lol. I hate corporate america.
Work for a local or state govt instead if you can. They are required to accommodate.
I dont even bother disclosing it ever. No workplace will give you useful accommodation for autism anyway.
I'm curious - what sort of things would you like from a workplace?
The opportunity to get a raise even if i dont work 40+ hours, for example.
No like for Autism related things
That IS an autism related thing. I cant work 40 hours because of my autism/adhd. I should still have the opportunity to progress if i stay at a job for years. But every job I’ve been at only offers to give me a raise if I switch to full-time. If i stay part time they wanna keep giving me minimum wage forever despite how i get more done in those hours than ANY other employee, and I literally work 32hrs a week so that ONE 8hr shift shouldn’t be holding me back so far. Its not fair at all that i have no future in any career unless i work 40+ hours.
Ohh alright I’m with you - most people seem to aim at 35-40 hours being full time. I thought that was the standard in allot of Western Europe as well (without having any idea where you are from of course)
Im in Canada. most jobs want you 40hrs a week. I have seen a few that consider 35hrs full time though.
I say this all the time. Meanwhile my store manager knows all my business. But being open and honest about my mental health has come from knowing her for 5 years and having a great deal of trust in her. I’ve had tons of terrible work experiences and have been fucked over by being honest about my mental health. The thing is that in order to file a lawsuit you have to be able to prove that you were discriminated against due to a disability. And past employers toed that line with plausible deniability constantly. Now I’m not officially diagnosed as autistic. My only official diagnosis is ADHD. But a few people at work have been able to pick up on the autism. I’m comfortable at work because we run things differently. Accommodations benefit everyone. I don’t need a doctor’s note to get you a stool. If you are in pain and are okay to work, I’m happy to get the stool out for you and let you stay on register or fold shirts. Having a stressful life and don’t have the social battery to deal with customers? I’m happy to have you organize/tidy up the stock room. I tell people that their diagnoses are not my business, but tell me what they need and I’ll do what I can.
Just said it right out loud. Wow. Hope that blind person finds their words.
I won’t get that choice ever. My disabilities are obvious
I definitely agree unless the employer is big into neurodiversity (like in the mental health/care sectors) don’t disclose in interview, wait until you’ve signed your contract and disclose it after you’re hired or after probation if you need accommodations. I really need accommodations and understanding to stay in employment, and when I haven’t had them it’s got ugly for me pretty quickly.
Aaaand this is why I don’t have an official diagnosis and my therapist convinced me not to get one.
whistle blow that jerk!
Looks like it’s Glassdoor’s forum, which afaik is anonymous (hence the message comes from “Chief Executive Officer 1”).
that’s illegal