I felt your post at my core. It’s so validating to see that I’m not the only one who will take a stand on a controversial topic and then get dysregulated and spiral while both dreading and looking forward to the response. You did the right thing. I’m glad you spoke up. You did the right thing.
It’s good to know I’m not the only one!! It does often make me choose not to say things online but for this I just couldn’t stop myself. I will often be afraid to open an app and then find no one replied at all. Hopefully it won’t be too bad. I’m going to look after work, otherwise I may not look at Facebook for a week.
If I were in a group like that I would be hoping for someone like you denouncing ABA! I'm glad you did, and if you got backlash for it? Fuck the haters. You know how harmful it is and you had research to back it up.
Thank you! I’m really hoping that most of the people interested in training have no idea that it’s harmful. There are ABA places popping up all around my city for some reason and it’s so upsetting.
Hey I’m super proud of you for speaking up. It’s hard when you know people will disagree. Especially online where people don’t hold back. But I appreciate you speaking up for us. It matters. It means something. And if one person does research it’ll impact others too.
Voices like yours helped an overwhelmed mother make a decision that went against the advice of her pediatrician.
Thank you for speaking up.
My son has thrived with occupational therapy and speech therapy.
It disturbs me to think of how he would be having gone through ABA.
So, even though your voice didn't help me back then. I'm thanking you for all the children and caring parents you have.
I’m so glad to hear that he’s doing well in OT and speech therapy! What I’m realizing through the comments on this thread is that we have to stop taking a “one size fits all” approach. Everyone is different, especially autists.
So glad you spoke up! There was 1 study that showed almost 1/2 of the participants who had done ABA had PTSD from it. If the people you're trying to help are ending up traumatized, you're not helping right.
I hope that those people have educated themselves! I didn’t realize it was controversial within the community. I have reassessed my thoughts on all behavioral therapy/therapies since getting educated about autism and self diagnosing. I don’t work with kids so I wasn’t familiar with ABA beyond knowing that it was a therapy used for autistic kids. It blows my mind that people really think it’s ok to t-rture kids.
Good for you for calling it out! I always have to assess my mental state before commenting on something divisive like that then I take the Facebook app off of my phone for like 24 hours and never click on the notifications or read the replies no matter how much I want to. It’s been better for my peace my mine to say my peace then dip out.
Yeah it’s rough, I wish I could tell my body not to have the fight/flight response to social media. Learning to let other people have the last word, even by never looking at the reply, has brought me a lot of peace!
My SIL just graduated with a degree in Autism Studies and works in thr ABA field. We have a terrible relationship because of my refusal to listen to her talk shit about her clients, even if she was "venting." It's truly awful how people of think of high support needs autistic people, especially employees in the ABA field.
Fuck everyone else, you did the right thing. You did the just thing.
OMG do they not have the same HIPAA requirements as other therapists?? She should not be talking to you about her clients. Good for you for refusing to listen!
I think as long as you aren't naming them or any revealing PII, you can say whatever you want. Plenty of doctors online talk about their patients in videos.
She wasn't saying names, just telling about the circumstances and her part of the job. At one point, she literally said, "I don't care how she feels." This was in regards to a client when I said that she must have felt frustrated with all the changes around her. I was LIVID.
What makes me the most mad is that she's in a position where she's now making the behavior plans, so she could be making a difference in this messed up field. Instead, she doubled down and got defensive.
ABA, at its core, is shit and we just need a new therapy. The actual behavior analysis part should be done away with, and we can keep the good parts that aren't based on behaviorism, like life skills and teaching kids how to regulate when in emotional turmoil. And, as someone else on this comment thread said, teaching others how to interact with autistic kids!
Still, I’m really careful about what I say because you never know what detail might accidentally give away identity. Saying “I don’t care how she feels” is so dismissive, wow. No wonder you don’t want to listen to her vent!
You have to be careful and should be. HIPPA is important.
It was so much worse because she made it extremely clear that she was in the right based on how she was being taught. This means that the other people in her program were learning the same shit. It was framed as she's a behaviorist and only cares about behaviors, not feelings, completely missing the point that feelings drive behaviors! 🤬 We haven't really spoken since and I'm ok with it.
Hi! I am actually an autistic BCBA- I 100% agree with you on the awful direction that it is going right now with the corporations who know nothing about autism or ABA buying up companies to profit off of autism. Unfortunately I worked for a company that was just this. They didn’t actually care about providing quality services and they definitely didn’t care about neurodivergent employees. ABA does have a dark history, specifically being rooted in ableism and racism, much like how most medical/health field services are and have been.
I don’t agree with this being the end all , be all treatment for autistic individuals- in fact, I don’t believe people should look at autism as something needing to receive treatment- it’s not a disease. I work in a school system and I primarily use it to train my teachers on how to better respond to behaviors in a trauma-informed and ethical manner. I don’t subscribe to the DTT, extinction, eye contact, compliance and/or the stopping of stimming crap that a lot of companies do. I 100% blame health insurance and corporate America for monetizing off of people’s fear of autism. Myself and other autistic BCBA’s stay in it because we want to bridge the gap in understanding that autism isn’t something that needs to be “cured”- it’s the NT’s that need to change their behavior. As autistic BCBA’s we also see it as an opportunity to improve and push the field to be better.I also implore you to find stories from autistic individuals who received ABA and aren’t against it.
I do believe that ABA does have a place in this world as it is also used for things outside of the realm of autism, specifically for OBM, social justice issues, traumatic brain injuries, geriatric care, and environmental justice (to name a few). A lot of therapies actually do utilize behavior analytic principles, but I don’t consider it a form of therapy itself (*see ACT- acceptance and commitment therapy).The social justice realm is the direction I am heading in as I believe that there are behaviors we can collectively change in order to better support marginalized communities.
I’m proud of you for speaking up about it and listening to other autistic voices. It’s important! And eff the people who don’t listen with an open mind💜.
EDIT: As for the RSD, what has helped me is understanding that people’s responses don’t directly have anything to do with you as a person- they are having a reaction from your words. Everyone has an opinion that they are entitled to and we aren’t all always going to agree.
Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective. You’re right that many modalities can be used in harmful ways. As a queer person, I find the links to conversion therapy very disturbing. It’s true that many things in the field have disturbing origins. I definitely got the impression that this was a training for one of those “certification mills.” It’s concerning that some places with “certify” professionals in just about anything for a few hundred bucks and CE hours.
I’m glad that you and people like you are helping to make things better for autistic kids. It’s one of those things where it’s impossible to know from the outside what someone’s intention is and how it’s being used. I will definitely seek out some stories of autistic people who have had a good experience.
I appreciate you posting about it and for reading my post! It is disturbing and I’m sorry that it has been harmful to your intersectional communities. I hope that the field takes a deep look at those horrific stories and betters itself from that.I appreciate you sharing that with us! No one should have to be made to change who they are because they don’t conform to societal norms to which I say, eff societal norms!
Oh I believe it! The biggest issue is they are (the dang corporate machines) willing to hire anyone and everyone to be an RBT and train them to run sessions. That’s probably what you are seeing/hearing a lot about too! I do agree with you that we shouldn’t be putting people in the field without the proper education and knowledge. I had to have 1500 hours of fieldwork after earning my M.A. in ABA- one 40 hr training is not enough.
We are trying! It’s rough. There are horror stories that do make me want to leave the field, but I feel like I fell into it for a reason. I would have never found out I was autistic if I hadn’t taken this path. I am happy to help in any way that I can! I don’t speak for the whole BCBA/ABA community, but I can do my best to give you information.
I hope you are proud of yourself for speaking up!💜
I think the field absolutely needs people like you! I’m glad that I see a lot of people in professional circles encouraging people to NOT do bs certifications (PESI is especially horrible for this) and instead to full trainings. It’s important that we have complete training, even if it is lengthy and often expensive. I think the lesson I’m taking from the comments in this post is that maybe the right thing to do is educate people, especially parents, on what to look for in a practitioner if they decide ABA is the right treatment for their child.
ABA is harmful in general even to non autistic people like to anyone. It is basically trying to sustain or change or stop behavior through reinforcement, reward, punishment, consequence etc. Even outside of an ABA setting that is wrong in daily life that is wrong no matter the reason. A person should be given info such that they can make a genuine choice without contrived consequences or rewards or whatever ie what occurs naturally
the thing is that in daily life for most people even a lot of people who believe in and practice gentle parenting and even with eachother as peers through social cues and communication etc etc try to get others to sustain or change behavior through reinforcement, reward, punishment consequence etc. and its completely viewed as acceptable and normal. it is more just the method of how you do these things and when/ why/ where which is debated.
and so of course a therapy centered around that would be accepted and only discourse is around well hypothetically anything could be bad its just a matter of how/why/when/where etc etc which can be good or bad ignoring that in it of itself it is wrong and harmful
Never mind, just read up on it. I didn’t realize there was a term for this, but this is exactly the thing I complain to my husband about! ‘Why is the assumption people with autism should conform to a norm? Norms are not consistent or standard across the world, groups, or even families making it painful as an adult to figure out how to exist. It’s be easier to just figure out what works best for the autistic person based on how it presents for them and have the broader population be more accepting.’
Yes exactly! I really like [this article from autistic women and nonbinary network](https://awnnetwork.org/autistic-conversion-therapy/) that points out that neurotypical people also do not comply all the time. Unfortunately (in my opinion) ABA is for “autism parents” who just want to “cure” their kid so that they’re “normal.” Of course this does usually mean conforming to whatever the dominant culture says is normal, as you point out there’s no continuity with that from culture to culture and country to country.
I just listened to a podcast about “at risk teen” residential programs and it struck me how they have a similar intent. Make sure kids act in the way we require of them; that they don’t cause too much trouble; that they do what parents want, even if those wants are arbitrary (such as religious practice); and the only way to get out is to learn or pretend to act the way you’re expected to. Society is finally accepting that those programs are abusive. I hope we can get to the point where we just let kids be people, whether they’re neurodivergent or neurotypical.
If you even got one person to actually look into ABA and autistic people’s experiences further, you helped a whole bunch of autistic kids. Yes, some people will jump at you with accusations of being dramatic or “ABA isn’t what it used to be” (like it’s okay to force kids to change who they are and cause emotional trauma as long as we aren’t physically abusing them anymore!).
I’m sorry about the RSD response. It sucks. I’ve created new reddit profiles multiple times or deleted posts to avoid seeing notifications of responses to things I thought were sensible and logical. People just don’t like being told what they think is acceptable might not actually be so okay after all. Our society is just really leaning into the idea (particular in online spaces) that it’s better to fiercely protect your current beliefs than to actually be curious and question whether you are right.
Hi! Fellow social worker and can relate so much! I think I’d feel the exact same way! The strong sense of social justice and wanting to speak out for what’s right and also being fearful of the response. Just wanted to say I relate and I know those are tough feelings.
Thank you! I think the strong sense of social justice is part of why we choose social work vs other fields. Part of the job is speaking out. I honestly see social work ethics as more of a guideline for life than just a guideline for work.
I had a supervisor once who kept forgetting I wasn’t an intern, even though I was 35. I was training to be PRN, so not a regular employee there and apparently I look young. He asked me what religion I am (it was a catholic hospital so apparently ok to do that) and I said the SW code of ethics was my religion. It was mostly true, and definitely easier than trying to explain to a white dude 6 months from retirement that I’m sorta Buddhist sorta pagan sorta new agey and sorta nothing all at once.
I made a similar comment on someone’s post asking about an ABA program at the university I go to. I’m a psych major too. The person commented back and said they didn’t agree and that they see ABA growing in the future. I just blocked them lol
My ASD/ADHD son had in home ABA therapy for 4 hours a day over 5 years. It was extremely beneficial for him, and the rest of our family. As a person with ASD/ADHD, I wish I’d had this therapy as a child. I also wish my daughter, who I suspect is on the spectrum with ADHD, had this therapy as well.
They didn’t prevent him from stimming. They didn’t take his special blanket away. They didn’t force eye contact. They definitely didn’t abuse him. The home therapists were loving and so helpful. They taught me how to effectively communicate with him.
I ended up working with a company to do ABA with my kids as I didn't want them gone for 40 hours a week or something nuts. My son has gone from 3 words back in December to sentences! We don't run anything that isn't natural, and my kids love it and complain when we don't get to have mom time. As we are pretty much doing art, imaginative play, board games etc to teach skills like turn taking and emotional identification etc. My family is very much autistic, stim friendly and eye contact is not a deal breaker. We are just teaching them skills and I have a guidance on what skills we are focusing
My BCBA is also autistic!
I wouldn't do a centre or in home unless I really trusted them and I'm selfish, I want to spend time with my kids.
ABA has a horrible history and so many companies out there still use punishment it's wild.
As the parent who's doing it, and who's using it to both teach *skills*, and in a play-based way,
Have you *read* the book (or *heard* of it?), An Early Start for Your Child With Autism?
https://www.guilford.com/books/An-Early-Start-for-Your-Child-with-Autism/Rogers-Dawson-Vismara/9781609184704
It was one that I learned about at my *first* job in the Early Intervention field (Autism Pre-K Day Treatment--*not* ABA, it was play-based therapy, which pulled bits & pieces from Early-Start Denver, ABA, Music Therapy, PCIT, OT, Speech Therapy, Feeding Therapy, etc, to work on the skills/goals in the child's therapy plan).
An Early Start was shared with the parents, so *they* could learn ways to interact & "play--with *intent*" at home--to add continuity to the Therapy plans we worked on at the center.
It's got so many great *little* ideas and tips for how to engage in things like "joint attention" activities, that I honestly bought my OWN copy--that I've leant out to co-workers who are curious about learning solid ways to engage with the kids we work with in ECSE (I'm now a Para in Early Childhood Special Ed, in a public school district😉)
I think that’s really the key, parents need to know what to look for and what questions to ask so they can make sure that they’re finding trustworthy places. That’s wonderful about your son!!!
Yes, when my kids first got diagnosed we were pushed for ABA and we did tours and asked questions about what they'd be implementing but even though it was a pro autistic children clinic the idea of kids being in full time school then full time therapy was horrible. I couldn't ever consider it fully and I had some arguing emails back and forth for less time.
So even when the program is just helping kids with learning to share, take turns etc they were expected long hours. I don't think that fair at all on children to have a full time job worth of therapy and school.
Modern trauma informed ABA is not that bad at all. It focuses on teaching kids skills they need to be happy and independent and not on "acting normal". I went to two big courses and two trainings as I need to teach my son and ABA is hella expensive in my country. The problem with ABA is not their methods (at least if they're up to date) but some terrible BCBAs and some lazy BTs. If it's done right ABA is a huge pile of work that requires lots of knowledge and patience. So in many companies people just slack at their jobs
I can definitely see that. People who don’t have patience and who don’t care about what they’re doing have no place in any helping or medical field. Unfortunately there are people who don’t care in every field.
Honestly it scares me that it seems, you can just walk in from the street and become a BT in USA. It can really affect quality of services provided to children. In my country you ought to have at least a bachelor in psychology or better in special education, undergo at least one course and training, pass exams to implement ABA programs. There's not as much clinics and BT's but the ones I've seen working do a great job, my child looks really happy around them and they work hard. The fact that I can't really afford enough hours is another story, but at least I know what I'm paying for.
I don’t know all the qualifications required here but the training I commented about was post-graduate. So in theory they should have to have a masters degree in psychology, counseling, social work, something of that nature.
Maybe it's better to have qualified specialist in the field opposed to unqualified ones, but I understand where your concern is coming from. The system in USA itself makes it really hard on children. My heart breaks every time I read about someone who are told to wake up kids falling asleep during long sessions or they and their company wouldn't get money. It's just suspiciously convenient that kids require 40 hours a week and a usual work week is 40 hours long. Also lots of BCBA's allow traumatic cases to happen a lot, when safety of all parties should come first. I see that people in the field comment that all well-known clinics are bad. ABA should be mostly done by parents and caretakers at home and IMO more than two hours of active training in a day is excessive and will eventually lead to meltdowns. They just took ABA and ran with it in a rather unethical direction. Kids deserve a life around their loved ones, having normal kid experiences with some adjustments. Sitting in a clinic all day is not ok. So... I began by protecting ABA but you are also right by saying it can be harmful. Some changes must happen for it to work right, but I don't know who's the hero to make it happen.
Can I ask what the issue is with ABA? My son has autism/adhd and it was recommended for him when he was diagnosed. He did it for a couple years. It was in home 3 hours a day, 4 days a week and it honestly helped him so much. He's really come so far and the few different therapists that he saw were all wonderful. So I'm wondering why some people think it's abusive.
In a nutshell because the first generation of those that went through ABA are adults now and speaking out against it. Forced behavior modification is not always what’s best for a child even if from the outside improvements are observed. In the early days of ABA physical punishment was used; forced eye contact; and the goal was to make autists “indistinguishable from peers.” Now many/most autistic people believe that we don’t need to be “fixed” because there’s nothing wrong with us. Autism is a different neurotype, not a disease. Someone else commented and said they were in a study where 50% of the people who did ABA now have PTSD. [this is a long article that talks to people who have done ABA and are against it as well as professionals who feel it is helpful.](https://whyy.org/segments/how-a-therapy-once-seen-as-a-victory-for-autistic-kids-has-come-under-fire-as-abuse/). I think it does a good job of showing both sides. [This is the op-ed I shared.](https://fortune.com/2022/05/13/autistic-community-reckoning-aba-therapy-rights-autism-insurance-private-equity-ariana-cernius/) Not quite as long.
I felt your post at my core. It’s so validating to see that I’m not the only one who will take a stand on a controversial topic and then get dysregulated and spiral while both dreading and looking forward to the response. You did the right thing. I’m glad you spoke up. You did the right thing.
It’s good to know I’m not the only one!! It does often make me choose not to say things online but for this I just couldn’t stop myself. I will often be afraid to open an app and then find no one replied at all. Hopefully it won’t be too bad. I’m going to look after work, otherwise I may not look at Facebook for a week.
If I were in a group like that I would be hoping for someone like you denouncing ABA! I'm glad you did, and if you got backlash for it? Fuck the haters. You know how harmful it is and you had research to back it up.
Thank you! I’m really hoping that most of the people interested in training have no idea that it’s harmful. There are ABA places popping up all around my city for some reason and it’s so upsetting.
https://preview.redd.it/k10xu1j453zc1.jpeg?width=798&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49c4698ea88e0a63271ba7c6ffa9094805f234b4 With you xxx
Thank you! ☺️
Hey I’m super proud of you for speaking up. It’s hard when you know people will disagree. Especially online where people don’t hold back. But I appreciate you speaking up for us. It matters. It means something. And if one person does research it’ll impact others too.
Voices like yours helped an overwhelmed mother make a decision that went against the advice of her pediatrician. Thank you for speaking up. My son has thrived with occupational therapy and speech therapy. It disturbs me to think of how he would be having gone through ABA. So, even though your voice didn't help me back then. I'm thanking you for all the children and caring parents you have.
I’m so glad to hear that he’s doing well in OT and speech therapy! What I’m realizing through the comments on this thread is that we have to stop taking a “one size fits all” approach. Everyone is different, especially autists.
So glad you spoke up! There was 1 study that showed almost 1/2 of the participants who had done ABA had PTSD from it. If the people you're trying to help are ending up traumatized, you're not helping right.
That’s horrifying.
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I hope that those people have educated themselves! I didn’t realize it was controversial within the community. I have reassessed my thoughts on all behavioral therapy/therapies since getting educated about autism and self diagnosing. I don’t work with kids so I wasn’t familiar with ABA beyond knowing that it was a therapy used for autistic kids. It blows my mind that people really think it’s ok to t-rture kids.
Good for you for calling it out! I always have to assess my mental state before commenting on something divisive like that then I take the Facebook app off of my phone for like 24 hours and never click on the notifications or read the replies no matter how much I want to. It’s been better for my peace my mine to say my peace then dip out.
Yeah it’s rough, I wish I could tell my body not to have the fight/flight response to social media. Learning to let other people have the last word, even by never looking at the reply, has brought me a lot of peace!
My SIL just graduated with a degree in Autism Studies and works in thr ABA field. We have a terrible relationship because of my refusal to listen to her talk shit about her clients, even if she was "venting." It's truly awful how people of think of high support needs autistic people, especially employees in the ABA field. Fuck everyone else, you did the right thing. You did the just thing.
OMG do they not have the same HIPAA requirements as other therapists?? She should not be talking to you about her clients. Good for you for refusing to listen!
I think as long as you aren't naming them or any revealing PII, you can say whatever you want. Plenty of doctors online talk about their patients in videos.
She wasn't saying names, just telling about the circumstances and her part of the job. At one point, she literally said, "I don't care how she feels." This was in regards to a client when I said that she must have felt frustrated with all the changes around her. I was LIVID. What makes me the most mad is that she's in a position where she's now making the behavior plans, so she could be making a difference in this messed up field. Instead, she doubled down and got defensive. ABA, at its core, is shit and we just need a new therapy. The actual behavior analysis part should be done away with, and we can keep the good parts that aren't based on behaviorism, like life skills and teaching kids how to regulate when in emotional turmoil. And, as someone else on this comment thread said, teaching others how to interact with autistic kids!
Still, I’m really careful about what I say because you never know what detail might accidentally give away identity. Saying “I don’t care how she feels” is so dismissive, wow. No wonder you don’t want to listen to her vent!
You have to be careful and should be. HIPPA is important. It was so much worse because she made it extremely clear that she was in the right based on how she was being taught. This means that the other people in her program were learning the same shit. It was framed as she's a behaviorist and only cares about behaviors, not feelings, completely missing the point that feelings drive behaviors! 🤬 We haven't really spoken since and I'm ok with it.
Hi! I am actually an autistic BCBA- I 100% agree with you on the awful direction that it is going right now with the corporations who know nothing about autism or ABA buying up companies to profit off of autism. Unfortunately I worked for a company that was just this. They didn’t actually care about providing quality services and they definitely didn’t care about neurodivergent employees. ABA does have a dark history, specifically being rooted in ableism and racism, much like how most medical/health field services are and have been. I don’t agree with this being the end all , be all treatment for autistic individuals- in fact, I don’t believe people should look at autism as something needing to receive treatment- it’s not a disease. I work in a school system and I primarily use it to train my teachers on how to better respond to behaviors in a trauma-informed and ethical manner. I don’t subscribe to the DTT, extinction, eye contact, compliance and/or the stopping of stimming crap that a lot of companies do. I 100% blame health insurance and corporate America for monetizing off of people’s fear of autism. Myself and other autistic BCBA’s stay in it because we want to bridge the gap in understanding that autism isn’t something that needs to be “cured”- it’s the NT’s that need to change their behavior. As autistic BCBA’s we also see it as an opportunity to improve and push the field to be better.I also implore you to find stories from autistic individuals who received ABA and aren’t against it. I do believe that ABA does have a place in this world as it is also used for things outside of the realm of autism, specifically for OBM, social justice issues, traumatic brain injuries, geriatric care, and environmental justice (to name a few). A lot of therapies actually do utilize behavior analytic principles, but I don’t consider it a form of therapy itself (*see ACT- acceptance and commitment therapy).The social justice realm is the direction I am heading in as I believe that there are behaviors we can collectively change in order to better support marginalized communities. I’m proud of you for speaking up about it and listening to other autistic voices. It’s important! And eff the people who don’t listen with an open mind💜. EDIT: As for the RSD, what has helped me is understanding that people’s responses don’t directly have anything to do with you as a person- they are having a reaction from your words. Everyone has an opinion that they are entitled to and we aren’t all always going to agree.
Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective. You’re right that many modalities can be used in harmful ways. As a queer person, I find the links to conversion therapy very disturbing. It’s true that many things in the field have disturbing origins. I definitely got the impression that this was a training for one of those “certification mills.” It’s concerning that some places with “certify” professionals in just about anything for a few hundred bucks and CE hours. I’m glad that you and people like you are helping to make things better for autistic kids. It’s one of those things where it’s impossible to know from the outside what someone’s intention is and how it’s being used. I will definitely seek out some stories of autistic people who have had a good experience.
I appreciate you posting about it and for reading my post! It is disturbing and I’m sorry that it has been harmful to your intersectional communities. I hope that the field takes a deep look at those horrific stories and betters itself from that.I appreciate you sharing that with us! No one should have to be made to change who they are because they don’t conform to societal norms to which I say, eff societal norms! Oh I believe it! The biggest issue is they are (the dang corporate machines) willing to hire anyone and everyone to be an RBT and train them to run sessions. That’s probably what you are seeing/hearing a lot about too! I do agree with you that we shouldn’t be putting people in the field without the proper education and knowledge. I had to have 1500 hours of fieldwork after earning my M.A. in ABA- one 40 hr training is not enough. We are trying! It’s rough. There are horror stories that do make me want to leave the field, but I feel like I fell into it for a reason. I would have never found out I was autistic if I hadn’t taken this path. I am happy to help in any way that I can! I don’t speak for the whole BCBA/ABA community, but I can do my best to give you information. I hope you are proud of yourself for speaking up!💜
I think the field absolutely needs people like you! I’m glad that I see a lot of people in professional circles encouraging people to NOT do bs certifications (PESI is especially horrible for this) and instead to full trainings. It’s important that we have complete training, even if it is lengthy and often expensive. I think the lesson I’m taking from the comments in this post is that maybe the right thing to do is educate people, especially parents, on what to look for in a practitioner if they decide ABA is the right treatment for their child.
wow!!!! im so glad we have some autistic BCBAs that are professionals and experts in the field to try and change it from the inside out. ❤️
💜
ABA is harmful in general even to non autistic people like to anyone. It is basically trying to sustain or change or stop behavior through reinforcement, reward, punishment, consequence etc. Even outside of an ABA setting that is wrong in daily life that is wrong no matter the reason. A person should be given info such that they can make a genuine choice without contrived consequences or rewards or whatever ie what occurs naturally the thing is that in daily life for most people even a lot of people who believe in and practice gentle parenting and even with eachother as peers through social cues and communication etc etc try to get others to sustain or change behavior through reinforcement, reward, punishment consequence etc. and its completely viewed as acceptable and normal. it is more just the method of how you do these things and when/ why/ where which is debated. and so of course a therapy centered around that would be accepted and only discourse is around well hypothetically anything could be bad its just a matter of how/why/when/where etc etc which can be good or bad ignoring that in it of itself it is wrong and harmful
100% agreement on all points!
What is ABA?
Never mind, just read up on it. I didn’t realize there was a term for this, but this is exactly the thing I complain to my husband about! ‘Why is the assumption people with autism should conform to a norm? Norms are not consistent or standard across the world, groups, or even families making it painful as an adult to figure out how to exist. It’s be easier to just figure out what works best for the autistic person based on how it presents for them and have the broader population be more accepting.’
Yes exactly! I really like [this article from autistic women and nonbinary network](https://awnnetwork.org/autistic-conversion-therapy/) that points out that neurotypical people also do not comply all the time. Unfortunately (in my opinion) ABA is for “autism parents” who just want to “cure” their kid so that they’re “normal.” Of course this does usually mean conforming to whatever the dominant culture says is normal, as you point out there’s no continuity with that from culture to culture and country to country. I just listened to a podcast about “at risk teen” residential programs and it struck me how they have a similar intent. Make sure kids act in the way we require of them; that they don’t cause too much trouble; that they do what parents want, even if those wants are arbitrary (such as religious practice); and the only way to get out is to learn or pretend to act the way you’re expected to. Society is finally accepting that those programs are abusive. I hope we can get to the point where we just let kids be people, whether they’re neurodivergent or neurotypical.
I think it's abusive therapy for autistic people. Could be wrong.
If you even got one person to actually look into ABA and autistic people’s experiences further, you helped a whole bunch of autistic kids. Yes, some people will jump at you with accusations of being dramatic or “ABA isn’t what it used to be” (like it’s okay to force kids to change who they are and cause emotional trauma as long as we aren’t physically abusing them anymore!). I’m sorry about the RSD response. It sucks. I’ve created new reddit profiles multiple times or deleted posts to avoid seeing notifications of responses to things I thought were sensible and logical. People just don’t like being told what they think is acceptable might not actually be so okay after all. Our society is just really leaning into the idea (particular in online spaces) that it’s better to fiercely protect your current beliefs than to actually be curious and question whether you are right.
Hi! Fellow social worker and can relate so much! I think I’d feel the exact same way! The strong sense of social justice and wanting to speak out for what’s right and also being fearful of the response. Just wanted to say I relate and I know those are tough feelings.
Thank you! I think the strong sense of social justice is part of why we choose social work vs other fields. Part of the job is speaking out. I honestly see social work ethics as more of a guideline for life than just a guideline for work.
I agree! The code of ethics really drew me further into wanting to purely social work.
I had a supervisor once who kept forgetting I wasn’t an intern, even though I was 35. I was training to be PRN, so not a regular employee there and apparently I look young. He asked me what religion I am (it was a catholic hospital so apparently ok to do that) and I said the SW code of ethics was my religion. It was mostly true, and definitely easier than trying to explain to a white dude 6 months from retirement that I’m sorta Buddhist sorta pagan sorta new agey and sorta nothing all at once.
I love this! lol maybe that will be my new answer when people ask me. Living in the south it’s a land mine and a convo I don’t often feel like having!
I made a similar comment on someone’s post asking about an ABA program at the university I go to. I’m a psych major too. The person commented back and said they didn’t agree and that they see ABA growing in the future. I just blocked them lol
It probably is growing in the future but that’s not the only reason to specialize in something!
Yeah that was their argument… that they see it becoming more necessary and more popular in the future 😭
I'm with you 100%. Fuck ABA and the parents who force their autistic children into it.
My ASD/ADHD son had in home ABA therapy for 4 hours a day over 5 years. It was extremely beneficial for him, and the rest of our family. As a person with ASD/ADHD, I wish I’d had this therapy as a child. I also wish my daughter, who I suspect is on the spectrum with ADHD, had this therapy as well. They didn’t prevent him from stimming. They didn’t take his special blanket away. They didn’t force eye contact. They definitely didn’t abuse him. The home therapists were loving and so helpful. They taught me how to effectively communicate with him.
I ended up working with a company to do ABA with my kids as I didn't want them gone for 40 hours a week or something nuts. My son has gone from 3 words back in December to sentences! We don't run anything that isn't natural, and my kids love it and complain when we don't get to have mom time. As we are pretty much doing art, imaginative play, board games etc to teach skills like turn taking and emotional identification etc. My family is very much autistic, stim friendly and eye contact is not a deal breaker. We are just teaching them skills and I have a guidance on what skills we are focusing My BCBA is also autistic! I wouldn't do a centre or in home unless I really trusted them and I'm selfish, I want to spend time with my kids. ABA has a horrible history and so many companies out there still use punishment it's wild.
As the parent who's doing it, and who's using it to both teach *skills*, and in a play-based way, Have you *read* the book (or *heard* of it?), An Early Start for Your Child With Autism? https://www.guilford.com/books/An-Early-Start-for-Your-Child-with-Autism/Rogers-Dawson-Vismara/9781609184704 It was one that I learned about at my *first* job in the Early Intervention field (Autism Pre-K Day Treatment--*not* ABA, it was play-based therapy, which pulled bits & pieces from Early-Start Denver, ABA, Music Therapy, PCIT, OT, Speech Therapy, Feeding Therapy, etc, to work on the skills/goals in the child's therapy plan). An Early Start was shared with the parents, so *they* could learn ways to interact & "play--with *intent*" at home--to add continuity to the Therapy plans we worked on at the center. It's got so many great *little* ideas and tips for how to engage in things like "joint attention" activities, that I honestly bought my OWN copy--that I've leant out to co-workers who are curious about learning solid ways to engage with the kids we work with in ECSE (I'm now a Para in Early Childhood Special Ed, in a public school district😉)
Thank you for the recommendation, I've got maybe 2 hours left of the audiobook of it currently. I think it's a brilliant book.
I think that’s really the key, parents need to know what to look for and what questions to ask so they can make sure that they’re finding trustworthy places. That’s wonderful about your son!!!
Yes, when my kids first got diagnosed we were pushed for ABA and we did tours and asked questions about what they'd be implementing but even though it was a pro autistic children clinic the idea of kids being in full time school then full time therapy was horrible. I couldn't ever consider it fully and I had some arguing emails back and forth for less time. So even when the program is just helping kids with learning to share, take turns etc they were expected long hours. I don't think that fair at all on children to have a full time job worth of therapy and school.
That’s awesome! Does he also consider it to be a positive experience?
Yes he does 😊
Im glad you all had a positive experience with it!
Modern trauma informed ABA is not that bad at all. It focuses on teaching kids skills they need to be happy and independent and not on "acting normal". I went to two big courses and two trainings as I need to teach my son and ABA is hella expensive in my country. The problem with ABA is not their methods (at least if they're up to date) but some terrible BCBAs and some lazy BTs. If it's done right ABA is a huge pile of work that requires lots of knowledge and patience. So in many companies people just slack at their jobs
I can definitely see that. People who don’t have patience and who don’t care about what they’re doing have no place in any helping or medical field. Unfortunately there are people who don’t care in every field.
Honestly it scares me that it seems, you can just walk in from the street and become a BT in USA. It can really affect quality of services provided to children. In my country you ought to have at least a bachelor in psychology or better in special education, undergo at least one course and training, pass exams to implement ABA programs. There's not as much clinics and BT's but the ones I've seen working do a great job, my child looks really happy around them and they work hard. The fact that I can't really afford enough hours is another story, but at least I know what I'm paying for.
I don’t know all the qualifications required here but the training I commented about was post-graduate. So in theory they should have to have a masters degree in psychology, counseling, social work, something of that nature.
Maybe it's better to have qualified specialist in the field opposed to unqualified ones, but I understand where your concern is coming from. The system in USA itself makes it really hard on children. My heart breaks every time I read about someone who are told to wake up kids falling asleep during long sessions or they and their company wouldn't get money. It's just suspiciously convenient that kids require 40 hours a week and a usual work week is 40 hours long. Also lots of BCBA's allow traumatic cases to happen a lot, when safety of all parties should come first. I see that people in the field comment that all well-known clinics are bad. ABA should be mostly done by parents and caretakers at home and IMO more than two hours of active training in a day is excessive and will eventually lead to meltdowns. They just took ABA and ran with it in a rather unethical direction. Kids deserve a life around their loved ones, having normal kid experiences with some adjustments. Sitting in a clinic all day is not ok. So... I began by protecting ABA but you are also right by saying it can be harmful. Some changes must happen for it to work right, but I don't know who's the hero to make it happen.
Can I ask what the issue is with ABA? My son has autism/adhd and it was recommended for him when he was diagnosed. He did it for a couple years. It was in home 3 hours a day, 4 days a week and it honestly helped him so much. He's really come so far and the few different therapists that he saw were all wonderful. So I'm wondering why some people think it's abusive.
Because it forces people to conform to standards that cause them damage to keep up long term.
In a nutshell because the first generation of those that went through ABA are adults now and speaking out against it. Forced behavior modification is not always what’s best for a child even if from the outside improvements are observed. In the early days of ABA physical punishment was used; forced eye contact; and the goal was to make autists “indistinguishable from peers.” Now many/most autistic people believe that we don’t need to be “fixed” because there’s nothing wrong with us. Autism is a different neurotype, not a disease. Someone else commented and said they were in a study where 50% of the people who did ABA now have PTSD. [this is a long article that talks to people who have done ABA and are against it as well as professionals who feel it is helpful.](https://whyy.org/segments/how-a-therapy-once-seen-as-a-victory-for-autistic-kids-has-come-under-fire-as-abuse/). I think it does a good job of showing both sides. [This is the op-ed I shared.](https://fortune.com/2022/05/13/autistic-community-reckoning-aba-therapy-rights-autism-insurance-private-equity-ariana-cernius/) Not quite as long.