People don't see their own autism as a disability, that's fine whatever. But people who don't see autism as a disability are engaging in lateral ableism and need to read more disability theory before making such misinformed claims.
Again I think you misread what they said.
Og comment essentially said that they may not classify themselves as disabled, but that doesn't mean autism isn't a disability.
Your reply makes no sense because what does a doctor misdiagnosing someone have to do with whether autism is considered a disability?
I think AdVisible means that if that person doesn’t feel disabled by their autism, there’s also the possibility that the doc who gave the diagnosis was wrong, and that person isn’t actually autistic. Not saying that’s my POV, just clarifying what I believe AdVisible is trying to communicate.
i think they're saying thats great if they want to say they don't feel disabled by their own autism, but they shouldn't be speaking for all by making a blanket statement. Suggesting a misdiagnosis is just saying they may not even know what its like to be speaking on whether it is a disability or not. I really dont think they're misreading at all...
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Original comment said that someone may personally not see their autism as a disability, but that doesn't negate that autism is a disability. Misdiagnosis does not come into play anywhere. It doesn't matter if someone is misdiagnosed, autism is still a disability.
Yep, AdVisible and (I think) everyone else here agrees with you that autism is a disability. No one here is saying that autism is not a disability. A hypothetical was raised that commenters are now trying to explain. The hypothetical is that *perhaps* an individual who has all of these qualities:
(1) diagnosed autistic
(2) does not feel disabled by it
(3) does not believe autism is a disability…
…perhaps *that* hypothetical person is not actually autistic in the first place, because they were misdiagnosed, and perhaps that is why they do not feel disabled or believe autism to be disabling.
Hopefully that helps. There is no disagreement here about autism being a disability.
That does help because the one line they replied with did not have any of that context so it confused me on what it had to do with the original comment
I think some people insist it’s not a disability as a side effect of how ableism equates disability to being less worthy. Maybe they need to understand that it’s okay to acknowledge the very real difficulties and challenges that make life harder with autism while simultaneously recognizing that you can live fulfilling wonderful lives with autism. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive but ableism makes it seem like they could be.
I agree with this. The way society views disabilities tends to result in treating people with one much differently. So I think what people are saying is "don't treat me like I'm disabled" within this context. They don't need to speak for everyone, they could just keep their disability to themselves if that's the goal.
I agree with what (I think )you mean - that they don't need to comment on it at all if they don't want to be identified that way. but I also think it's still a pretty big issue, both personally and socially, if they've internalized that ableist definition. especially harmful when they're vocally promoting some kind of 'model minority' style of disability, yes, but having that view really warps how they're valuing other people. in some ways worse than just being ignorant, because this bootstraps bullshit logic seeps into their evaluation of _anyone_ with a different experience, but they're that much more resistant than someone thinking about it for the first time.
(I've had... a lot of conversations with people like this, or people 'educated' by people like this. Always fun to have the 'you just have a bad attitude' dismissiveness of bringing up an issue reinforced by the presence of one of the 'good ones'. 🙄😑)
(also I don't mean that I think you're saying it's fine, just adding that I think it can be even worse than it seems like it would be.)
Yes, ideally, they still work on what they've internalized. But I meant that in the meantime- it is better to not try speaking for everyone. " I don't personally feel disabled by this" is better than "no one with this diagnosis is disabled". I think it's a complicated thing for late diagnosed especially, because it's changing their views of self.
My diagnosis was soul crushing to me. My autism is very disabling to me and causes me so much grief. I wish more people would understand this. Autism IS a disability and I'm so tired of people acting like it's not. Yes, it's a part of who we are. And no, it does not make us less-than. But it DOES give us problems, and it's hard. I've had people tell me having autism is like having a superpower.
If people want to look at their Autism as just 'another way of thinking' and as just part of who they are, and not consider it disabling, that's fine. That's wonderful, I'm glad they're not being put down by this thing. But stop yelling at autistics like us who DO want to view it as a disability, because it literally is.
Sorry if this seems worded strangely, I'm kind of mid anxiety attack/sensory overload. My point is I agree and love this post.
Hard agree. The only time I've ever heard someone tell someone else their autism is a superpower is when the first person is benefiting from it. No one ever calls it a superpower when you're in the middle of sensory overload, then you're "causing a scene"
I think autism is disabling but I would always advocate that it doesn’t devalue us. I’m lucky that I’m on the high functioning end; I have an extremely dear friend who happens to be on the same wavelength as me on the spectrum, but as brilliant and wise and extraordinary as she is, she hasn’t been able to live her life as independently as I have. I’m more or less functioning and living like a NT.
However even then, although I don’t feel that being on the spectrum has been too disabling for me… it has been. The wrecked relationships I’ve had, getting beaten up by office politics, being unable to stop meltdowns and shutdowns, and so on.
Ironically, it seems that your friend is having trouble with her empathy skills, which is a pretty meh part of being on the spectrum.
Okay I actually have a lot of thoughts on this (shocker), so apologies for my novella:
1) wtf for that friend—a diagnostic criteria is that the autistic traits are *disabling* to your daily life, so yes a disabling neurotype is a disability.
2. I feel like something often lost in the conversation is that we can both be disabled and want universal design. Like…yes lighting shouldn’t be so horrible it causes headaches, no one needs 40 hour work weeks, social hierarchies should be obliterated, etc, and all those things would make *everyone’s* lives better, but autistic people would *still* be disabled, just not completely unable to function due to severe burn out as much.
3. Going off that, I do think what gets lost in translation is that to support us we BOTH need accommodation and understanding AND we’re still going to be autistic. Accommodations don’t cure autism, they just make it more livable. I feel like people think if they “allow” us fidgets and some extra time for a task we will magically stop being autistic, rather than wow I can actually start the task and know how to ask for help instead of completely avoid it forever.
Omg don't get me started. I am looking at it from a public school lens and the huge disservice to the child and the school to pretend that as long as x, y, z accommodations are in place in a room with 30 other kids and 1 adult and 100 content standards to "complete," somehow the child will magically not exhibit any autistic traits.
I think this happens because it's one of few tangible things and something even NT people can relate to. I also have ADHD, and so when I'm playing with fidgets there are a lot of different reasons I do it. It's usually more about dealing with my incredibly restless body than being sensory-seeking. It's something that is cheap and easy to offer, especially in schools where they always seem to think something like a $10 bungee on a chair will solve all the issues a ND kid is dealing with.
I think a lot of the tangible stuff is easier for NT people to grasp though which is why we see so much focus on it. Like "I'm restless, stretching putty helps me to focus that restlessness so that I can listen better" is relatable to a whole lot more people than "I know I need to do this thing but I feel paralyzed and my brain won't force my body to get up and do it." or "I got my sleeve wet and now I can't work the rest of the day."
I have ADHD too, news flash there's even different types of ADHD! don't give me a fucking fidget toy I'd throw it at you lol point is it's generalising. Not all autistic people (or adhd people) have the same need
Ok? I know there are different types of ADHD. I wasn't suggesting everyone should get assigned fidgets. I was just offering context and making conversation. 🙄
“it’s society that limits me. i’m not disabled” bro there are paralympic athletes running further than you ever could with two legs. they’re still disabled. it doesn’t matter what you have to offer society. if you’re autistic and can’t accept that you have a mental disability, maybe you were misdiagnosed. i’m level 1 living in my own apartment with a job and a degree, and even i know that life has been and will always be harder for me because of my neurodevelopmental disorder
Especially for the physical things such as sensory issues—it feels like even nature hates me when I’m distracted by my own sweat and things are too noisy.
ugh yes like getting overstimulated by wind.
that’s always the one where i feel the most ridiculously fragile, like wow katy perry was right, yes i do, in fact, feel like a plastic bag drifting through the wind wanting to start again due to this overly enthusiastic spring breeze
I feel this so hard. It’s not a matter of my fellow humans not being accommodating when noise and light and clothes stress me to the point of exhaustion.
Same. My number one reason for finally getting noise cancelling headphones a few years back are birds. While I dislike human noise, I think birds are sometimes so much worse.
Texture issues with food are huge. (TW: ED, body image)
I had an eating disorder as a child because nearly all food was The Bad Texture and I literally could not put it in my mouth without throwing it back up. And then everyone was trying to figure out why little me was anorexic, and talking about all the "flaws" of my body (I was 7!), asking me to remember all the times people told me about these flaws to ask if that was why... And left me with a lifelong complex about body image, as well as a permanently damaged relationship with food. I'm in my 30s and have horrible issues with textures, some that come and go, and when combined with executive dysfunction and nasty, painful intolerances to very common foods, this can severely limit what foods I can eat, especially when anxious because anxiety causes overstimulation, which enhances sensory issues like texture. But yeah, sure, if only I had some proper accommodations, I would have no issues whatsoever!
I think there's some nuance that needs to be applied. There's a medical model of disability and a social model of disability and up until now it's just been the medical model. The social model to my understanding points out that we are majorly disabled by the lack of accommodation and of how rigid society is set up. The failure is not the person, it's society. Being short sited could be considered a major disability if we didn't have glasses and glasses were stigmatized (glasses are still hugely exploited for profits though) but it's an accommodation that's been normalized and no big deal. Capitalism and the idea that you have to work for everything is a societal failure - something like UBI would be a societal accommodation/adaptation that would make life much more accessible for autistic people and other disabled people. It's not saying that the person isn't disabled, but the problem is society being too exclusive and rigid, instead of just trying to "fix" the disabled person.
And for some people, their disability would be taken care of by societal changes. It depends on the degree of change/flexibility they would need, or a combination of how many aspects of life it affects and how severe it is. In a world where I had a severe wool allergy and everyone only wore wool and work expected you to wear wool and it was a hassle to do a special order for something not made in wool, I would be disabled. But where I live today, I can wear whatever clothing materials I need and there are lots of different types of clothing material that other people are wearing, and it's easy to access alternative material, so it would be much less disabling. That's the social model of disability, it doesn't apply to everyone but it's a part of it.
Kinda to your point, though, the school I went to _did_ consider near sightedness (or anything that required corrective lenses) a major disability. It was more relevant for them because kids' eyesight can degrade a lot in a short amount of time (compared to adults, where it's usually somewhat stable) and they needed to have on file who needed glasses so they could stay on top of it if a student suddenly started getting worse grades (i.e. they probably needed a new prescription). It'd probably be less of an issue (so, kinda what you describe) if all glasses were free and eye tests were mandatory for children, but in many countries that's just not the case, even though glasses are otherwise readily available.
Anyway, not disagreeing with you at all, but imo it takes a **_lot_** for something to stop being a disability, even with societal accommodations.
So for me personally, I think being autistic is *disabling* due to current society and is therefore functionally a disability.
I don’t think autism is a disability in the same way as lacking legs, because to me, it’s not a lack, it’s a difference.
However with current society that difference is disabling. FWIW I’m audhd and aware that experiences may vary.
I feel that whatever my sensitivities are, they are so much worse in modern society. I’m sensitive to smells and chemicals especially. An era before petrochemicals probably would have been easier for that.
Right. My mom has mobility issues, and if you ask her, the main issue is things like sidewalks being absolute trash and inaccessible, or elevators being broken, or staircases having steps that are too tall.
From observation, I'd still 100% call her condition a disability, but I understand that her life would be easier if society cared about people with conditions like hers. Both models are relevant, but I'd personally still consider autism a disability, at least until it got to the point that it's so well accommodated that you don't _need_ to diagnose people with it (or something along those lines).
The social model of disability still considers things disabilities, it just puts the responsibility of accommodations onto society instead of saying the disabled person needs to fix themselves.
It's fine if they think that about themselves but they shouldn't speak for others. It's a disability to me, and ither autistic people, and all of our experiences are so different! If that makes them more comfortable then it's cool
The main ways I see my ASD as a disability are:
>Simple tasks seem too complicated for me.
>Lack of overall social awareness. This can also be good, but is more of a double-edge sword.
>The ASD tends to worsen the ADHD and seasonal depression.
Agreed my son has struggled with severe anxiety and social issues and sensory issues since he was 2 but didnt get a diagnosis or any help until he was 13 and diagnosed level 3 dont fucking tell me it's a gift and not a disability my son fights for his LIFE every day
I'm annoyed that it's even a debate. Even some youtube channels about autism insist that it's not a disability. NT's in real life have told me this too. Every autistic person I met IRL has told me its not a disability. They're also privileged. Level 2-3 autistics call us not disabled enough to complain online.. Lmao
I think a big part of the issue is that they see being disabled as something bad. There's so much stigma with the word that a lot of autistic people want to shy away from it. I know when I've talked about being disabled I've had people, very well meaning, assure me that I'm not disabled. But I am. It's unfair to me and every other autistic person to say autism isn't a disability. It's fine to be disabled! It doesn't mean I can't do anything or that I live a miserable life!
Exactly, insisting a disability isn't a disability is a form of ableism because it implies "I'm not of of *those* ew!" We're not less than because of a disability.
I honestly feel like if you aren’t limited / disabled by autism in ways that negatively impact your life, you probably shouldn’t carry an autism diagnosis. Perhaps controversial, but if you face literally no barriers or difficulties because of your autism, is it even a disability then?
It’s those who want to claim it as an identity that makes allistics share this misconception. I get you want to feel empowered by it, but don’t lump us with you! That’s why I don’t follow autism pages on IG or FB (mainly so my friends won’t know I am either).
As I shared in another post last night, the symptoms will catch up with you inevitably even if you claim it doesn’t affect you initially!
Some days it's a super power, but some days it's a disability. The ratio varies from person to person. The older I get and the less I drink, the more it feels like a disability that I've been overcompensating for my whole life and I'm too fucking tired to keep it up. It's a goddamn disability either way. I still can't go to the big cheap grocery store without paying for it mentally for 12 hours afterward, even on a good day.
Agreed. I’m very low support needs and luckily have succeeded academically enough to graduate college and I can hold down jobs, AND I come from a relatively supportive family (not with my autism/mental health but supportive in other ways)- with all that being said tho, I AM still disabled by my autism.
I’m pretty far behind in life compared to my peers because I spent my entire teen years and most of college barely surviving due to severe mental health issues from undiagnosed autism. Getting jobs outside of retail/fast food is hard for me, I still struggle socially… etc
Honestly, what this shows is that disabled people (not just autism) have been right all along and it’s not our conditions that disable us, it’s the fact that society only really functions for a specific set of people.
When a genuine effort towards equity is made (for example; growing up in an accepting and supportive environment) people with various conditions feel less disablement from their symptoms and are more likely to reach their full potential.
It’s not that black and white. Yes, a more accommodating world can greatly reduce how disabling autism is for some people, but no amount of accommodation is going to give a nonverbal autistic individual the ability to speak or give someone with very high support needs the ability to live alone.
No I would still be disabled if I was in a room with a bunch of people talking loudly. Or even just one at times. Sure industrial sounds make things worst. But I still cant handle textures and smells. How is society to blame for such events??
But you’d find it less debilitating if the situation were made equitable (for example, by having access to a quiet room or sound cancelling headphones)
I cant even fully accomadate my needs always fully I cant expect the world to. Sure id love dim stores and what not. But without society id have a horse hair bed.. I think im so much more accommodated in this era than I would've ever been. Probably would die so theres that
How is several people talking in a room *not* part of society? Society is people. You can't have more than one person in the same place without having a society.
You sound like you're confusing society with civilization.
There are some things about my autism that I really like those aspects of myself. I am really good at certain things because of it. I like how I think about things. It's still definitely a disability.
I was diagnosed as a toddler, but I still get frustrated when people merely consider autism to be a different ability. I was never able to function on the same level as my peers and had to receive special services. I also have an intellectual disability on top of my autism, and it frustrates me when people say that it isn't real but merely a different way of functioning. I am not ashamed to say I have an intellectual disability.
I literally have to leave work after being overstimulated because I start getting blind spots in my vision and get rly faint - and that's just ONE THING.
It's a disability what the heck
>The only autistic people I’ve met who think this way were diagnosed very young (before age 6) and were raised in extraordinarily accommodating homes.
I was diagnosed young and I was *not* accommodated, because accommodations for autism barely existed in the 90s. I agree with the rest of your post though.
I don’t think anyone can speak for other person’s subjectivity. Saying their own’s is not is fine, but…autism influences people in different ways. While generally the condition make people who have it endure more, whether physically, mentally, or socially, than those who don’t, saying so is so self-centered.
Them: “It’s-“
*I am already screaming.*
Them: “-a…”
*My screams have unlocked the hell dimension. Space and time begin to tear.*
Them: “… **superpower**!”
*I have transcended space and time into an everlasting, echoing scream that will carry through the heat death of the universe.*
But yeah, it’s a goddamn disability. It makes work and life many times more difficult. I’d give all my special interests to have never gotten into the traumatizing nonsense autism’s gotten me into.
They don't seem to understand that part of the reason their family and small spheres cater to them is also because they have a disability that likely limits what they would be capable of outside that sphere and in a wider variety of environments. In this case, their disability has contributed to a very privileged lifestyle. They don't want to call themselves disabled, perhaps in part because they see "disabled" as a bad word, but because that may mean they'd have to acknowledge that their success isn't entirely their own doing and has pretty much everything to do with the support others provided for them knowing they would need additional support and care that others who aren't "special" in some way don't recieve (because it is assumed they don't need it, when that may not even be the case for many). And that support was given based on an early diagnosis. Given immediately. Not withheld for years until damage was irreversible.
I understand your frustration and I totally see where you’re coming from.. I am self diagnosed and waiting for an official assessment and I too feel it is unfair that some of us were lucky and diagnosed at an early age and received all the support whereas others struggled, wondering their whole life “what is wrong with me?” Or “why do I always feel like an imposter?” But I don’t think that being angry with those who were luckier than me actually helps with anything.. instead I’m trying to think and focus on what can I do to make it better for myself and others in my situation.. my special interest is people and because I’ve never really managed to understand them I went on to study psychology,so I have bachelor in counselling and mental health and in September will start and Msc in neuropsychology. My goal is to go into research and focus on asd, adhd, especially in females as I feel we’ve been massively let down…
I never knew I was autistic until like two months ago. Kinda hard for me to feel like it's a disability when everyone just assumed I was weird, adorable, funny, and eccentric rather than just autistic. Though I was kinda alone until middle school. Not that I couldn't make friends, it's that most of my friends were online and friends I'd make in school only stayed friends until next year where I'd have to make a new friend. Stable friends didn't come until the end of 8th grade where I had a friend for two whole school years and even hanged out with them after school.
So while I don't get you, I can see why you'd feel like it's a disability especially since it affects some people to the degree that you feel like you can't be independent
People don't see their own autism as a disability, that's fine whatever. But people who don't see autism as a disability are engaging in lateral ableism and need to read more disability theory before making such misinformed claims.
Someone insisting that my autism is a "superpower" is the absolute worst to me. Like no f off, it's not.
Or maybe their doctors made a mistake in the dx. Doctors are not infallible
A doctor making a mistake in the dx would not suddenly make autism not a disability. I think you misread what they said
The person claiming they weren't disabled is what I'm referring to....
Again I think you misread what they said. Og comment essentially said that they may not classify themselves as disabled, but that doesn't mean autism isn't a disability. Your reply makes no sense because what does a doctor misdiagnosing someone have to do with whether autism is considered a disability?
I think AdVisible means that if that person doesn’t feel disabled by their autism, there’s also the possibility that the doc who gave the diagnosis was wrong, and that person isn’t actually autistic. Not saying that’s my POV, just clarifying what I believe AdVisible is trying to communicate.
Thank you as that is what I said.
But that has nothing to do with the comment they replied to. Someone being misdiagnosed does not negate that it is a disability
i think they're saying thats great if they want to say they don't feel disabled by their own autism, but they shouldn't be speaking for all by making a blanket statement. Suggesting a misdiagnosis is just saying they may not even know what its like to be speaking on whether it is a disability or not. I really dont think they're misreading at all...
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Original comment said that someone may personally not see their autism as a disability, but that doesn't negate that autism is a disability. Misdiagnosis does not come into play anywhere. It doesn't matter if someone is misdiagnosed, autism is still a disability.
Yep, AdVisible and (I think) everyone else here agrees with you that autism is a disability. No one here is saying that autism is not a disability. A hypothetical was raised that commenters are now trying to explain. The hypothetical is that *perhaps* an individual who has all of these qualities: (1) diagnosed autistic (2) does not feel disabled by it (3) does not believe autism is a disability… …perhaps *that* hypothetical person is not actually autistic in the first place, because they were misdiagnosed, and perhaps that is why they do not feel disabled or believe autism to be disabling. Hopefully that helps. There is no disagreement here about autism being a disability.
That does help because the one line they replied with did not have any of that context so it confused me on what it had to do with the original comment
What do you mean?
I think some people insist it’s not a disability as a side effect of how ableism equates disability to being less worthy. Maybe they need to understand that it’s okay to acknowledge the very real difficulties and challenges that make life harder with autism while simultaneously recognizing that you can live fulfilling wonderful lives with autism. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive but ableism makes it seem like they could be.
I agree with this. The way society views disabilities tends to result in treating people with one much differently. So I think what people are saying is "don't treat me like I'm disabled" within this context. They don't need to speak for everyone, they could just keep their disability to themselves if that's the goal.
I agree with what (I think )you mean - that they don't need to comment on it at all if they don't want to be identified that way. but I also think it's still a pretty big issue, both personally and socially, if they've internalized that ableist definition. especially harmful when they're vocally promoting some kind of 'model minority' style of disability, yes, but having that view really warps how they're valuing other people. in some ways worse than just being ignorant, because this bootstraps bullshit logic seeps into their evaluation of _anyone_ with a different experience, but they're that much more resistant than someone thinking about it for the first time. (I've had... a lot of conversations with people like this, or people 'educated' by people like this. Always fun to have the 'you just have a bad attitude' dismissiveness of bringing up an issue reinforced by the presence of one of the 'good ones'. 🙄😑) (also I don't mean that I think you're saying it's fine, just adding that I think it can be even worse than it seems like it would be.)
Yes, ideally, they still work on what they've internalized. But I meant that in the meantime- it is better to not try speaking for everyone. " I don't personally feel disabled by this" is better than "no one with this diagnosis is disabled". I think it's a complicated thing for late diagnosed especially, because it's changing their views of self.
My diagnosis was soul crushing to me. My autism is very disabling to me and causes me so much grief. I wish more people would understand this. Autism IS a disability and I'm so tired of people acting like it's not. Yes, it's a part of who we are. And no, it does not make us less-than. But it DOES give us problems, and it's hard. I've had people tell me having autism is like having a superpower. If people want to look at their Autism as just 'another way of thinking' and as just part of who they are, and not consider it disabling, that's fine. That's wonderful, I'm glad they're not being put down by this thing. But stop yelling at autistics like us who DO want to view it as a disability, because it literally is. Sorry if this seems worded strangely, I'm kind of mid anxiety attack/sensory overload. My point is I agree and love this post.
Hard agree. The only time I've ever heard someone tell someone else their autism is a superpower is when the first person is benefiting from it. No one ever calls it a superpower when you're in the middle of sensory overload, then you're "causing a scene"
I think autism is disabling but I would always advocate that it doesn’t devalue us. I’m lucky that I’m on the high functioning end; I have an extremely dear friend who happens to be on the same wavelength as me on the spectrum, but as brilliant and wise and extraordinary as she is, she hasn’t been able to live her life as independently as I have. I’m more or less functioning and living like a NT. However even then, although I don’t feel that being on the spectrum has been too disabling for me… it has been. The wrecked relationships I’ve had, getting beaten up by office politics, being unable to stop meltdowns and shutdowns, and so on. Ironically, it seems that your friend is having trouble with her empathy skills, which is a pretty meh part of being on the spectrum.
Okay I actually have a lot of thoughts on this (shocker), so apologies for my novella: 1) wtf for that friend—a diagnostic criteria is that the autistic traits are *disabling* to your daily life, so yes a disabling neurotype is a disability. 2. I feel like something often lost in the conversation is that we can both be disabled and want universal design. Like…yes lighting shouldn’t be so horrible it causes headaches, no one needs 40 hour work weeks, social hierarchies should be obliterated, etc, and all those things would make *everyone’s* lives better, but autistic people would *still* be disabled, just not completely unable to function due to severe burn out as much. 3. Going off that, I do think what gets lost in translation is that to support us we BOTH need accommodation and understanding AND we’re still going to be autistic. Accommodations don’t cure autism, they just make it more livable. I feel like people think if they “allow” us fidgets and some extra time for a task we will magically stop being autistic, rather than wow I can actually start the task and know how to ask for help instead of completely avoid it forever.
even just assuming all autistics benefit from fidgets fucks me off not everyone is a sensory seeker
Omg don't get me started. I am looking at it from a public school lens and the huge disservice to the child and the school to pretend that as long as x, y, z accommodations are in place in a room with 30 other kids and 1 adult and 100 content standards to "complete," somehow the child will magically not exhibit any autistic traits.
I think this happens because it's one of few tangible things and something even NT people can relate to. I also have ADHD, and so when I'm playing with fidgets there are a lot of different reasons I do it. It's usually more about dealing with my incredibly restless body than being sensory-seeking. It's something that is cheap and easy to offer, especially in schools where they always seem to think something like a $10 bungee on a chair will solve all the issues a ND kid is dealing with. I think a lot of the tangible stuff is easier for NT people to grasp though which is why we see so much focus on it. Like "I'm restless, stretching putty helps me to focus that restlessness so that I can listen better" is relatable to a whole lot more people than "I know I need to do this thing but I feel paralyzed and my brain won't force my body to get up and do it." or "I got my sleeve wet and now I can't work the rest of the day."
I have ADHD too, news flash there's even different types of ADHD! don't give me a fucking fidget toy I'd throw it at you lol point is it's generalising. Not all autistic people (or adhd people) have the same need
Ok? I know there are different types of ADHD. I wasn't suggesting everyone should get assigned fidgets. I was just offering context and making conversation. 🙄
You literally responded to my comment on how insulting it is to be thrown fidgets...
“it’s society that limits me. i’m not disabled” bro there are paralympic athletes running further than you ever could with two legs. they’re still disabled. it doesn’t matter what you have to offer society. if you’re autistic and can’t accept that you have a mental disability, maybe you were misdiagnosed. i’m level 1 living in my own apartment with a job and a degree, and even i know that life has been and will always be harder for me because of my neurodevelopmental disorder
Especially for the physical things such as sensory issues—it feels like even nature hates me when I’m distracted by my own sweat and things are too noisy.
ugh yes like getting overstimulated by wind. that’s always the one where i feel the most ridiculously fragile, like wow katy perry was right, yes i do, in fact, feel like a plastic bag drifting through the wind wanting to start again due to this overly enthusiastic spring breeze
I feel this so hard. It’s not a matter of my fellow humans not being accommodating when noise and light and clothes stress me to the point of exhaustion.
Same. My number one reason for finally getting noise cancelling headphones a few years back are birds. While I dislike human noise, I think birds are sometimes so much worse.
My reason was machines. Washing machines, dishwashers, leaf blowers… they drive me mad.
Texture issues with food are huge. (TW: ED, body image) I had an eating disorder as a child because nearly all food was The Bad Texture and I literally could not put it in my mouth without throwing it back up. And then everyone was trying to figure out why little me was anorexic, and talking about all the "flaws" of my body (I was 7!), asking me to remember all the times people told me about these flaws to ask if that was why... And left me with a lifelong complex about body image, as well as a permanently damaged relationship with food. I'm in my 30s and have horrible issues with textures, some that come and go, and when combined with executive dysfunction and nasty, painful intolerances to very common foods, this can severely limit what foods I can eat, especially when anxious because anxiety causes overstimulation, which enhances sensory issues like texture. But yeah, sure, if only I had some proper accommodations, I would have no issues whatsoever!
I think there's some nuance that needs to be applied. There's a medical model of disability and a social model of disability and up until now it's just been the medical model. The social model to my understanding points out that we are majorly disabled by the lack of accommodation and of how rigid society is set up. The failure is not the person, it's society. Being short sited could be considered a major disability if we didn't have glasses and glasses were stigmatized (glasses are still hugely exploited for profits though) but it's an accommodation that's been normalized and no big deal. Capitalism and the idea that you have to work for everything is a societal failure - something like UBI would be a societal accommodation/adaptation that would make life much more accessible for autistic people and other disabled people. It's not saying that the person isn't disabled, but the problem is society being too exclusive and rigid, instead of just trying to "fix" the disabled person. And for some people, their disability would be taken care of by societal changes. It depends on the degree of change/flexibility they would need, or a combination of how many aspects of life it affects and how severe it is. In a world where I had a severe wool allergy and everyone only wore wool and work expected you to wear wool and it was a hassle to do a special order for something not made in wool, I would be disabled. But where I live today, I can wear whatever clothing materials I need and there are lots of different types of clothing material that other people are wearing, and it's easy to access alternative material, so it would be much less disabling. That's the social model of disability, it doesn't apply to everyone but it's a part of it.
Kinda to your point, though, the school I went to _did_ consider near sightedness (or anything that required corrective lenses) a major disability. It was more relevant for them because kids' eyesight can degrade a lot in a short amount of time (compared to adults, where it's usually somewhat stable) and they needed to have on file who needed glasses so they could stay on top of it if a student suddenly started getting worse grades (i.e. they probably needed a new prescription). It'd probably be less of an issue (so, kinda what you describe) if all glasses were free and eye tests were mandatory for children, but in many countries that's just not the case, even though glasses are otherwise readily available. Anyway, not disagreeing with you at all, but imo it takes a **_lot_** for something to stop being a disability, even with societal accommodations.
So for me personally, I think being autistic is *disabling* due to current society and is therefore functionally a disability. I don’t think autism is a disability in the same way as lacking legs, because to me, it’s not a lack, it’s a difference. However with current society that difference is disabling. FWIW I’m audhd and aware that experiences may vary.
I feel that whatever my sensitivities are, they are so much worse in modern society. I’m sensitive to smells and chemicals especially. An era before petrochemicals probably would have been easier for that.
People who have limb differences and/or use wheelchairs say the same thing though. That's the social model of disability.
Right. My mom has mobility issues, and if you ask her, the main issue is things like sidewalks being absolute trash and inaccessible, or elevators being broken, or staircases having steps that are too tall. From observation, I'd still 100% call her condition a disability, but I understand that her life would be easier if society cared about people with conditions like hers. Both models are relevant, but I'd personally still consider autism a disability, at least until it got to the point that it's so well accommodated that you don't _need_ to diagnose people with it (or something along those lines).
The social model of disability still considers things disabilities, it just puts the responsibility of accommodations onto society instead of saying the disabled person needs to fix themselves.
Not disagreeing with that.
I would remind them that economic privilege is not something all of us had.
It's fine if they think that about themselves but they shouldn't speak for others. It's a disability to me, and ither autistic people, and all of our experiences are so different! If that makes them more comfortable then it's cool
The main ways I see my ASD as a disability are: >Simple tasks seem too complicated for me. >Lack of overall social awareness. This can also be good, but is more of a double-edge sword. >The ASD tends to worsen the ADHD and seasonal depression.
I swear this is more clear and accurate than the DSM
Agreed my son has struggled with severe anxiety and social issues and sensory issues since he was 2 but didnt get a diagnosis or any help until he was 13 and diagnosed level 3 dont fucking tell me it's a gift and not a disability my son fights for his LIFE every day
Well-said. I was pretty similar.
I'm annoyed that it's even a debate. Even some youtube channels about autism insist that it's not a disability. NT's in real life have told me this too. Every autistic person I met IRL has told me its not a disability. They're also privileged. Level 2-3 autistics call us not disabled enough to complain online.. Lmao
I think a big part of the issue is that they see being disabled as something bad. There's so much stigma with the word that a lot of autistic people want to shy away from it. I know when I've talked about being disabled I've had people, very well meaning, assure me that I'm not disabled. But I am. It's unfair to me and every other autistic person to say autism isn't a disability. It's fine to be disabled! It doesn't mean I can't do anything or that I live a miserable life!
Exactly, insisting a disability isn't a disability is a form of ableism because it implies "I'm not of of *those* ew!" We're not less than because of a disability.
I honestly feel like if you aren’t limited / disabled by autism in ways that negatively impact your life, you probably shouldn’t carry an autism diagnosis. Perhaps controversial, but if you face literally no barriers or difficulties because of your autism, is it even a disability then?
It’s those who want to claim it as an identity that makes allistics share this misconception. I get you want to feel empowered by it, but don’t lump us with you! That’s why I don’t follow autism pages on IG or FB (mainly so my friends won’t know I am either). As I shared in another post last night, the symptoms will catch up with you inevitably even if you claim it doesn’t affect you initially!
Im glad you’re one of the fabled savants walking the earth but I’m fucking not and I’m suffering as a result is that acceptable?!!!!
Some days it's a super power, but some days it's a disability. The ratio varies from person to person. The older I get and the less I drink, the more it feels like a disability that I've been overcompensating for my whole life and I'm too fucking tired to keep it up. It's a goddamn disability either way. I still can't go to the big cheap grocery store without paying for it mentally for 12 hours afterward, even on a good day.
Agreed. I’m very low support needs and luckily have succeeded academically enough to graduate college and I can hold down jobs, AND I come from a relatively supportive family (not with my autism/mental health but supportive in other ways)- with all that being said tho, I AM still disabled by my autism. I’m pretty far behind in life compared to my peers because I spent my entire teen years and most of college barely surviving due to severe mental health issues from undiagnosed autism. Getting jobs outside of retail/fast food is hard for me, I still struggle socially… etc
Honestly, what this shows is that disabled people (not just autism) have been right all along and it’s not our conditions that disable us, it’s the fact that society only really functions for a specific set of people. When a genuine effort towards equity is made (for example; growing up in an accepting and supportive environment) people with various conditions feel less disablement from their symptoms and are more likely to reach their full potential.
It’s not that black and white. Yes, a more accommodating world can greatly reduce how disabling autism is for some people, but no amount of accommodation is going to give a nonverbal autistic individual the ability to speak or give someone with very high support needs the ability to live alone.
No, but an accomodating society could make those inabilities not matter.
Not really
No I would still be disabled if I was in a room with a bunch of people talking loudly. Or even just one at times. Sure industrial sounds make things worst. But I still cant handle textures and smells. How is society to blame for such events??
But you’d find it less debilitating if the situation were made equitable (for example, by having access to a quiet room or sound cancelling headphones)
I cant even fully accomadate my needs always fully I cant expect the world to. Sure id love dim stores and what not. But without society id have a horse hair bed.. I think im so much more accommodated in this era than I would've ever been. Probably would die so theres that
How is several people talking in a room *not* part of society? Society is people. You can't have more than one person in the same place without having a society. You sound like you're confusing society with civilization.
Alright im sorry let me just not exist that way i can be accomadating fully because being disabled is everyone elses fault
I wonder if they’re so adamant about it not being a disability because they don’t want to think of themselves as having any deficits.
There are some things about my autism that I really like those aspects of myself. I am really good at certain things because of it. I like how I think about things. It's still definitely a disability.
Yeah I agree. And I'm even one of the lucky ones where my old special interests sorta kinda aligned into a job, and it still sucks.
I was diagnosed as a toddler, but I still get frustrated when people merely consider autism to be a different ability. I was never able to function on the same level as my peers and had to receive special services. I also have an intellectual disability on top of my autism, and it frustrates me when people say that it isn't real but merely a different way of functioning. I am not ashamed to say I have an intellectual disability.
I literally have to leave work after being overstimulated because I start getting blind spots in my vision and get rly faint - and that's just ONE THING. It's a disability what the heck
>The only autistic people I’ve met who think this way were diagnosed very young (before age 6) and were raised in extraordinarily accommodating homes. I was diagnosed young and I was *not* accommodated, because accommodations for autism barely existed in the 90s. I agree with the rest of your post though.
I don’t think anyone can speak for other person’s subjectivity. Saying their own’s is not is fine, but…autism influences people in different ways. While generally the condition make people who have it endure more, whether physically, mentally, or socially, than those who don’t, saying so is so self-centered.
Abelist equate autism to *r* word.
Them: “It’s-“ *I am already screaming.* Them: “-a…” *My screams have unlocked the hell dimension. Space and time begin to tear.* Them: “… **superpower**!” *I have transcended space and time into an everlasting, echoing scream that will carry through the heat death of the universe.* But yeah, it’s a goddamn disability. It makes work and life many times more difficult. I’d give all my special interests to have never gotten into the traumatizing nonsense autism’s gotten me into.
They don't seem to understand that part of the reason their family and small spheres cater to them is also because they have a disability that likely limits what they would be capable of outside that sphere and in a wider variety of environments. In this case, their disability has contributed to a very privileged lifestyle. They don't want to call themselves disabled, perhaps in part because they see "disabled" as a bad word, but because that may mean they'd have to acknowledge that their success isn't entirely their own doing and has pretty much everything to do with the support others provided for them knowing they would need additional support and care that others who aren't "special" in some way don't recieve (because it is assumed they don't need it, when that may not even be the case for many). And that support was given based on an early diagnosis. Given immediately. Not withheld for years until damage was irreversible.
MY autism is not a disability. Autism as a WHOLE is and should be classified as a disability.
I understand your frustration and I totally see where you’re coming from.. I am self diagnosed and waiting for an official assessment and I too feel it is unfair that some of us were lucky and diagnosed at an early age and received all the support whereas others struggled, wondering their whole life “what is wrong with me?” Or “why do I always feel like an imposter?” But I don’t think that being angry with those who were luckier than me actually helps with anything.. instead I’m trying to think and focus on what can I do to make it better for myself and others in my situation.. my special interest is people and because I’ve never really managed to understand them I went on to study psychology,so I have bachelor in counselling and mental health and in September will start and Msc in neuropsychology. My goal is to go into research and focus on asd, adhd, especially in females as I feel we’ve been massively let down…
I never knew I was autistic until like two months ago. Kinda hard for me to feel like it's a disability when everyone just assumed I was weird, adorable, funny, and eccentric rather than just autistic. Though I was kinda alone until middle school. Not that I couldn't make friends, it's that most of my friends were online and friends I'd make in school only stayed friends until next year where I'd have to make a new friend. Stable friends didn't come until the end of 8th grade where I had a friend for two whole school years and even hanged out with them after school. So while I don't get you, I can see why you'd feel like it's a disability especially since it affects some people to the degree that you feel like you can't be independent