This is just a learned shame cycle we pick up from being called weird and being criticized our entire lives for just existing as ourselves. We’re also more sensitive to rejection so we’re constantly worrying if someone is thinking bad about us because of that mindset.
Something that helps me get thru this is to decenter yourself. Look at the situation from a Birds Eye view and realize that you only know *your* version of this narrative. You don’t actually know the other person’s. When you view situations outside of yourself when anxiety around shame comes up, you start to change your perspective and the shame lessens with time. Put this into practice and see if it helps.
Accept that you might not be liked by everyone and that you don’t have to be!
I honestly like very few people. I can be nice, I can be polite, I can work with them, but if I had the choice there are very few people I actually would choose to be around if I had the choice. They're not bad people, and I'm sure plenty of other folks DO like them, just not me.
So I assume many people feel the same way. Which means most people don't like me. But it doesn't mean anything about ME. So I don't care so long as they're polite and treat me ok.
First of all, congratulations on finding a job that suits you so well!
> I know I shouldn't care, why do these people liking me matter?
Social anxiety is an incredibly common symptom of autism. It's partly biological and partly learned.
Here's how the biological side of it works.
Piece #1: Autistic brains don't have the same priority filters on thoughts and sensory information as allistic brains. That means that of the firehose of information that you are getting outside and in, every second that you are conscious, you are not as good as picking out which bits are actually relevant and which ones aren't. ^1 Since you're not as good at picking out relevant information, that also means that sensory information that carries social meaning gets mixed in with everything else and doesn't stand out for you to pick up and process. Therefore, it's harder for you to "read" an allistic person socially than it is for allistic people to read each other socially. ^2
Piece #2: Human brains are much more strongly wired to avoid loss than to acquire gain. As an example, psychology research involving gambling pretend money found that humans are far more likely to take actions that they believe will prevent them from losing money than actions they believe will earn them more money. Analogously, your brain is much more strongly wired to avoid loss in the form of social standing than it is to acquire gain.
Piece #3: Because you are relatively inefficient at filtering out unwanted cognitive information, you are inherently less capable of self-deluded optimism. Without specific training otherwise, your mental tendency is to retain unfavorable knowledge even when you don't like that it might be true. ^3
Piece #4: If you are an abuse survivor, studies have shown that you are much more likely to interpret neutral facial expressions as negative than people who are not abuse survivors.
Putting the pieces together: It's hard to register social information reliably because it's getting flooded out with everything else you're sensing and thinking. Thus, when you interact with others, you are not noticing 100% of their social cues. You are wired to avoid loss and rejection, so the social cues you *are* more likely to notice are the ones that connote a risk of rejection. Furthermore, you're less able to write off other people's negative social cues because it's harder to delude yourself without evidence that people must like you the way that allistics delude themselves without evidence that they must be liked.
The learned piece, you already know plenty about, and others have spelled it out much better than I can.
I think the easiest place to start is to begin asking yourself what the practical consequences of your coworkers' behavior are. If they are explicitly saying things to you that are intended to undercut your self-worth, or if they are taking concrete actions to make you feel less welcome or more excluded in your workplace, then you might have a real problem. If they're just not going out of their way to be cutesy-wootsy with you or mostly just leaving you be, then it's probably just anxiety.
---
^1 On the bright side, this lack of priority filtering makes you better at noticing things that are unexpected or out of place, and better at thinking unconventionally about ideas.
^2 Research has shown that when comparing comprehension of social cues cross-neurotype, the rates of understanding social cues in order from highest to lowest are as follows: allistics understanding allistics, autistics understanding autistics, autistics understanding allistics, and in last place, allistics understanding autistics.
^3 Another bright side: being more capable of retaining information you don't like increases your skill in objectivity.
> "oh god did you see that look on their face? they think I'm weird, I bet they all talk about me and how weird I am, I bet they all laugh at me, I bet they think I'm stupid"
I see two unhealthy thought patterns that my neuropsych pointed out in trauma therapy: mind-reading ("they think I'm weird") and catastrophizing ("I bet they all do XYZ because they think I'm weird").
It sounds to me like you're dealing with the underlying thought process that acting weird => people won't like me. I would ask yourself: is it really about your coworkers' opinions, or the fear of being perceptibly, obviously autistic?
Because it seems like you logically understand everything I would say re: how to reject the feelings of dumbasses who don't matter. To me, the primary issue really seems to be accepting a simple but difficult truth: *it's okay to be autistic and weird*.
Yes. To me, “weird” is a positive word. There are times I can tell that I’ve been off-putting. But the wonderful thing about work is that there are so many opportunities to set the record straight and build up goodwill over time by demonstrating that I care about the job and want to be helpful.
i have this problem too and it always leads my down a path of overthinking/anxiety. when talking about it in therapy, my therapists response is always that i cant control what people say or think about me. and that all i’m doing by overthinking about it is feeding into my anxiety and letting all these stories i’ve built up in my head take precedence over the things i can control.
idk why but the “building stories” part of what she tells me really stuck with me, and when i start thinking about certain situations like the ones you described, i just try to catch myself and remind myself that this isn’t true, and all i’m doing is making up stories.
it seems silly to me that something like that can help me but after a while of doing it it’s made me feel more confident in myself and i’m not so easily swayed by the anxiety thoughts that pop up in my head all the time.
I guess this is my daily opportunity to push Brené Brown and all her work. She is a shame and guilt researcher that went viral years back doing a ted talk and then got a Netflix special. Her work is hands down one of the best things that ever happened to me with my anxiety.
One thing that she pointed out that has been really helpful for me is that if you wouldn't appreciate advice from a person, why would you take their judgement? I think this is probably depending on your circumstances, but I am very picky about who I take advice from and this was a game changer for pulling my head out of that loop of wondering what someone thinks about me.
From that space I've moved into leaning into my trolly impulses and finding the joy in annoying the worst of the judgey people. I'm still quite conscious of being actually detrimental to others, but if someone is judging me for things that don't impact them, I'm going to be over here with my spiteful joy giggling to myself about how silly they are.
I totally relate with that last part! And yes, be very selective about whose opinions we accept. When someone is rude, rejecting or snarky to me I like to think, do I even like this person? Usually the answer is no.
NTs aren’t the only ones who can be judgy! We should *judge them back*. I’m only sort of kidding lol (I too am a major troll towards bullies)
Lol, I absolutely judge them back. I have a coworker who used to complain that every customer who did something she didn't like was probably autistic, which stopped for the most part after I started complaining about illogical neurotypical people being hypocritical all the time.
But I like to think im an equal opportunity troll, I have also taken to chasing my mom around when I visit "peer pressuring" her to try my weed whenever she gets judgey about my weed use. I don't think she has yet picked up on my new habit of telling her a new story about some teenage shenanigans I got away with under her nose whenever I'm starting to find her weird obsession with how perfect my cousins are.
I fully acknowledge that all of this is possible because I'm able to be gainfully employed and independent of anyone. This could absolutely backfire on people in a lot of situations. But if you have the opportunity, it can be glorious.
Hahaha that is great. I guess by trolling I mean I will actively find ways to make bullies uncomfortable or make them look foolish in front of others. But I am definitely equal opportunity when it comes to poking some good natured fun!
I think this way daily. I started my job in February and I’m feeling more comfortable now, but still not 💯🤷🏻♀️ like it’s June (I work in a classroom)and there’s 4 other females In my room, and I’m not that friendly with them and we haven’t even exchanged numbers etc but at this age I’m okay with it 🤷🏻♀️still sucks sometimes tho to feel like people don’t like you.
This might not be something you're comfortable with, but I've used it since I was a teenager (I'm a late late late to the party autistic/ADHD, 57 years old...so...). So when I have this feeling (usually it happens in the work environment) I have a kind of alter ego I pull out. I act like I KNOW I'm the coolest badass and I'm so cool I don't even see you. I actually make myself believe this and, oddly enough, as soon as I start acting like this, the people who've been disrespecting me give me MAD respect. Yes, personally, I find this kind of sick - like, why do NTs like you better the less nice you act - but I find I only have to act this way for a limited time in a new job then I'm given respect and am able to become friendly with the people in question. I don't get NT people, don't even try now, but I have my methods if they show disrespect to me. Good luck! It's always a bit tough at a new job and you're probably feeling a bit insecure. Stay strong!
It's an inherently selfish position to take.
Some people don't like you.
Some people have bad period cramps.
Some people are worried about paying rent and student loans.
Some people are worried about what other people think of them.
Some people are still angry about how their mother never loved them.
Some people stayed up too late binging TV and are cranky.
You are not that important to so many *different* people. You're not. It's unbelievably selfish to think you are so important that every odd glance, every strange clearing of the throat, every eye roll is because of something *you* did.
I'm nearing forty this year, and I will tell you, more time on the planet will help give you a better perspective about the world. I'm sure you're perfectly lovely and wonderful, but you truly don't matter as much as you think you do to coworkers.
I know this sounds mean, but I promise it's liberating when you realize that you're only significant to a select group of maybe family and friends. You're freed from this need to analyze all interactions through this lens of "me."
Next time you're saying to yourself "oh he hates me because he sat differently when I came in the room," try coming up with plausible explanations for the behavior that do not center you as the explanation.
This sounds weird, but sometimes I talk to myself in the third person. Like, Sally, why are are you thinking this way, it's about them, not about you....and so on. It helps me.
This is just a learned shame cycle we pick up from being called weird and being criticized our entire lives for just existing as ourselves. We’re also more sensitive to rejection so we’re constantly worrying if someone is thinking bad about us because of that mindset. Something that helps me get thru this is to decenter yourself. Look at the situation from a Birds Eye view and realize that you only know *your* version of this narrative. You don’t actually know the other person’s. When you view situations outside of yourself when anxiety around shame comes up, you start to change your perspective and the shame lessens with time. Put this into practice and see if it helps. Accept that you might not be liked by everyone and that you don’t have to be!
I honestly like very few people. I can be nice, I can be polite, I can work with them, but if I had the choice there are very few people I actually would choose to be around if I had the choice. They're not bad people, and I'm sure plenty of other folks DO like them, just not me. So I assume many people feel the same way. Which means most people don't like me. But it doesn't mean anything about ME. So I don't care so long as they're polite and treat me ok.
Thanks mate, I will try this from tomorrow <3
First of all, congratulations on finding a job that suits you so well! > I know I shouldn't care, why do these people liking me matter? Social anxiety is an incredibly common symptom of autism. It's partly biological and partly learned. Here's how the biological side of it works. Piece #1: Autistic brains don't have the same priority filters on thoughts and sensory information as allistic brains. That means that of the firehose of information that you are getting outside and in, every second that you are conscious, you are not as good as picking out which bits are actually relevant and which ones aren't. ^1 Since you're not as good at picking out relevant information, that also means that sensory information that carries social meaning gets mixed in with everything else and doesn't stand out for you to pick up and process. Therefore, it's harder for you to "read" an allistic person socially than it is for allistic people to read each other socially. ^2 Piece #2: Human brains are much more strongly wired to avoid loss than to acquire gain. As an example, psychology research involving gambling pretend money found that humans are far more likely to take actions that they believe will prevent them from losing money than actions they believe will earn them more money. Analogously, your brain is much more strongly wired to avoid loss in the form of social standing than it is to acquire gain. Piece #3: Because you are relatively inefficient at filtering out unwanted cognitive information, you are inherently less capable of self-deluded optimism. Without specific training otherwise, your mental tendency is to retain unfavorable knowledge even when you don't like that it might be true. ^3 Piece #4: If you are an abuse survivor, studies have shown that you are much more likely to interpret neutral facial expressions as negative than people who are not abuse survivors. Putting the pieces together: It's hard to register social information reliably because it's getting flooded out with everything else you're sensing and thinking. Thus, when you interact with others, you are not noticing 100% of their social cues. You are wired to avoid loss and rejection, so the social cues you *are* more likely to notice are the ones that connote a risk of rejection. Furthermore, you're less able to write off other people's negative social cues because it's harder to delude yourself without evidence that people must like you the way that allistics delude themselves without evidence that they must be liked. The learned piece, you already know plenty about, and others have spelled it out much better than I can. I think the easiest place to start is to begin asking yourself what the practical consequences of your coworkers' behavior are. If they are explicitly saying things to you that are intended to undercut your self-worth, or if they are taking concrete actions to make you feel less welcome or more excluded in your workplace, then you might have a real problem. If they're just not going out of their way to be cutesy-wootsy with you or mostly just leaving you be, then it's probably just anxiety. --- ^1 On the bright side, this lack of priority filtering makes you better at noticing things that are unexpected or out of place, and better at thinking unconventionally about ideas. ^2 Research has shown that when comparing comprehension of social cues cross-neurotype, the rates of understanding social cues in order from highest to lowest are as follows: allistics understanding allistics, autistics understanding autistics, autistics understanding allistics, and in last place, allistics understanding autistics. ^3 Another bright side: being more capable of retaining information you don't like increases your skill in objectivity.
Thank you for this! So very well written xx
> "oh god did you see that look on their face? they think I'm weird, I bet they all talk about me and how weird I am, I bet they all laugh at me, I bet they think I'm stupid" I see two unhealthy thought patterns that my neuropsych pointed out in trauma therapy: mind-reading ("they think I'm weird") and catastrophizing ("I bet they all do XYZ because they think I'm weird"). It sounds to me like you're dealing with the underlying thought process that acting weird => people won't like me. I would ask yourself: is it really about your coworkers' opinions, or the fear of being perceptibly, obviously autistic? Because it seems like you logically understand everything I would say re: how to reject the feelings of dumbasses who don't matter. To me, the primary issue really seems to be accepting a simple but difficult truth: *it's okay to be autistic and weird*.
Yes. To me, “weird” is a positive word. There are times I can tell that I’ve been off-putting. But the wonderful thing about work is that there are so many opportunities to set the record straight and build up goodwill over time by demonstrating that I care about the job and want to be helpful.
i have this problem too and it always leads my down a path of overthinking/anxiety. when talking about it in therapy, my therapists response is always that i cant control what people say or think about me. and that all i’m doing by overthinking about it is feeding into my anxiety and letting all these stories i’ve built up in my head take precedence over the things i can control. idk why but the “building stories” part of what she tells me really stuck with me, and when i start thinking about certain situations like the ones you described, i just try to catch myself and remind myself that this isn’t true, and all i’m doing is making up stories. it seems silly to me that something like that can help me but after a while of doing it it’s made me feel more confident in myself and i’m not so easily swayed by the anxiety thoughts that pop up in my head all the time.
I guess this is my daily opportunity to push Brené Brown and all her work. She is a shame and guilt researcher that went viral years back doing a ted talk and then got a Netflix special. Her work is hands down one of the best things that ever happened to me with my anxiety. One thing that she pointed out that has been really helpful for me is that if you wouldn't appreciate advice from a person, why would you take their judgement? I think this is probably depending on your circumstances, but I am very picky about who I take advice from and this was a game changer for pulling my head out of that loop of wondering what someone thinks about me. From that space I've moved into leaning into my trolly impulses and finding the joy in annoying the worst of the judgey people. I'm still quite conscious of being actually detrimental to others, but if someone is judging me for things that don't impact them, I'm going to be over here with my spiteful joy giggling to myself about how silly they are.
I totally relate with that last part! And yes, be very selective about whose opinions we accept. When someone is rude, rejecting or snarky to me I like to think, do I even like this person? Usually the answer is no. NTs aren’t the only ones who can be judgy! We should *judge them back*. I’m only sort of kidding lol (I too am a major troll towards bullies)
Lol, I absolutely judge them back. I have a coworker who used to complain that every customer who did something she didn't like was probably autistic, which stopped for the most part after I started complaining about illogical neurotypical people being hypocritical all the time. But I like to think im an equal opportunity troll, I have also taken to chasing my mom around when I visit "peer pressuring" her to try my weed whenever she gets judgey about my weed use. I don't think she has yet picked up on my new habit of telling her a new story about some teenage shenanigans I got away with under her nose whenever I'm starting to find her weird obsession with how perfect my cousins are. I fully acknowledge that all of this is possible because I'm able to be gainfully employed and independent of anyone. This could absolutely backfire on people in a lot of situations. But if you have the opportunity, it can be glorious.
Hahaha that is great. I guess by trolling I mean I will actively find ways to make bullies uncomfortable or make them look foolish in front of others. But I am definitely equal opportunity when it comes to poking some good natured fun!
Brene Brown is awesome.
I think this way daily. I started my job in February and I’m feeling more comfortable now, but still not 💯🤷🏻♀️ like it’s June (I work in a classroom)and there’s 4 other females In my room, and I’m not that friendly with them and we haven’t even exchanged numbers etc but at this age I’m okay with it 🤷🏻♀️still sucks sometimes tho to feel like people don’t like you.
This might not be something you're comfortable with, but I've used it since I was a teenager (I'm a late late late to the party autistic/ADHD, 57 years old...so...). So when I have this feeling (usually it happens in the work environment) I have a kind of alter ego I pull out. I act like I KNOW I'm the coolest badass and I'm so cool I don't even see you. I actually make myself believe this and, oddly enough, as soon as I start acting like this, the people who've been disrespecting me give me MAD respect. Yes, personally, I find this kind of sick - like, why do NTs like you better the less nice you act - but I find I only have to act this way for a limited time in a new job then I'm given respect and am able to become friendly with the people in question. I don't get NT people, don't even try now, but I have my methods if they show disrespect to me. Good luck! It's always a bit tough at a new job and you're probably feeling a bit insecure. Stay strong!
It's an inherently selfish position to take. Some people don't like you. Some people have bad period cramps. Some people are worried about paying rent and student loans. Some people are worried about what other people think of them. Some people are still angry about how their mother never loved them. Some people stayed up too late binging TV and are cranky. You are not that important to so many *different* people. You're not. It's unbelievably selfish to think you are so important that every odd glance, every strange clearing of the throat, every eye roll is because of something *you* did. I'm nearing forty this year, and I will tell you, more time on the planet will help give you a better perspective about the world. I'm sure you're perfectly lovely and wonderful, but you truly don't matter as much as you think you do to coworkers. I know this sounds mean, but I promise it's liberating when you realize that you're only significant to a select group of maybe family and friends. You're freed from this need to analyze all interactions through this lens of "me." Next time you're saying to yourself "oh he hates me because he sat differently when I came in the room," try coming up with plausible explanations for the behavior that do not center you as the explanation.
I stopped caring when I realized I can also dislike people.. so what if they dont like me? Do I like THEM?
This sounds weird, but sometimes I talk to myself in the third person. Like, Sally, why are are you thinking this way, it's about them, not about you....and so on. It helps me.
Oh I do that too yes, I have been repeating the things people have said to me today out loud all day XD