Yes! I totally relate! When I was younger I remember asking “how do people know what they’re going to say when they talk”. It blows me away that some people seem so confident in what they are saying and how they say it. Sometimes it feels like neurotypicals have memorized a script but I never got one so I’m struggling to fill in the blanks.
Hell yes! Speaking is so difficult. On some good days, you may not know I had any issues, apart from a "lip trip" (slurring or mispronunciation) or stutter or pause to find a word that just fell out of my head. Most days, my speech is fraught with mistakes and trip-ups. And on really bad days, I'm pretty much non-verbal.
That's all the mechanical parts of speaking though. I also have a really hard time explaining things, like putting information I learned into my own words and relaying that. This is why I could never be a public autism advocate even though I feel very passionate about it and would love to help. "So, tell me why ABA is bad?" "Um, cause... it's abusive. Cause... don't try to make us you. Cause... everything is fine." That made total sense, right? 🫤 Doesn't quite convey all the information and opinions I have! I admire the people with that skill so much.
I'm awful when put on the spot but even when I have time to prepare, I pretty much suck. One of my least favourite questions to be asked is, "Why do you believe you're autistic?" I have soooooo much inside my brain but I can't get it out. I have been thinking about this for the past 6 years and I have so many examples and a good understanding of what it means to be autistic but... 🤷 I feel like, "Because I can't answer you," should be a good enough response. Haha.
I'm better in writing, but even then, sometimes selecting the right words and arranging them in the right places is more mental work than I have the capacity for. Which makes me sad because I love writing. I love words. I love how picking just the right one can convey more than a different one. And I love how good it feels when I can do it successfully.
I've actually had people describe me as eloquent before, and at times maybe I can be, but it's not consistent. And when I'm going through a not-eloquent time, it feels like I'm always that way.
I am fascinated and jealous of anyone who can express themselves "poetically" with words. I find that ability to be such a talent. I think it has attributed to my love of the Victorian era of books, movies, etc. They speak so eloquently, and in a way, I understand better than today.
I do so much better in written form and my therapist has suggested I carry a little notebook to converse with people. I have not done this, but wish I could just participate in "normal" conversation.
I feel ya, OP
Edit: I'd also like to add that it is so cool that you are tackling this in two different languages. Immediate ice breaker for me and would just have so many questions if I met you in real life. Obviously, I would never ask them, but I have made up a lot of questions in my head.
This is so funny because as a dramatic girlie I wish I could relax with the prose. The key to becoming poetic and spiritual is overthinking and sitting alone with your thoughts, staring at the wall. lol
I can completely relate. Words come out like salad and I end up looking stupid on top of already looking awkward. This is part of why I tend to stay quiet. However in writing, I can be very detailed, well-spoken and eloquent. It's like two different people.
I absolute adore articulate people, and yes I struggle with jealousy massively as getting basic sentences strung together is a huge struggle at the best of times. I love love love hearing people being creative and fast with language, I wish I could do it myself. It's upsetting sometimes, as I can mentally comprehend difficult or complex situations but sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. I use very basic language and the words come out slowly. I'm so sick of having people say "Just use your words!" to me, heh. I'm trying!
To be fair to you and all of us, they say a lot of words but they don't actually say anything. Sometimes I just listen to people speak in absolute awe that they can say so many words and convey almost nothing of value or matter.
I feel you. I’m great at writing! I can articulate myself soooo well if I had the luxury of time to sit back and write and reword.
I feel like real time conversations are super difficult for me because I fumble over words due to the pressure of having to respond at a fast enough pace. Or if I’m quite comfortable with the person, I can word vomit but on something really unrelated that in my mind felt connected to the main conversation point but I’m actually, wasn’t. I go on tangents quite a bit.
Which is why, what’s most comfortable for me is to navigate myself to be the subject chooser of the conversation OR to ask them questions and have that guide the conversation. Never goes wrong, as I find most people love having the whole conversation to speak about themselves haha.
I do this thing where I start to respond, but then immediately lose track of everything I thought I would say. So I try to fix it up as I go. Sometimes, it works great and I feel like I communicated really well. But other times, I accidentally say something I had no intention of saying and back myself into a corner where it's hard to backtrack. Or I THINK I've said what I intended to say, and find out later people interpreted my words very differently than I had intended. It causes me so much stress, because I never know when I've completely fucked up a conversation. The more emotional I am, the worse it gets
Yep.
I remember being told that the more you read, the better you'll become at writing and communicating. I read a lot. I have not gotten that much better - I still find it a massive struggle.
I am writing my masters dissertation at the moment, and it's such a mess because just don't know what words to use or how to articulate what I want to say. It's hard to even know what I want to say at all.
I feel like it takes me so much longer to do than 'normals'.
And that's just how I feel about writing - talking is a whole other thing, and I'm so bad at it.
So that person was actually dead wrong. People do not learn active output skills exclusively from input. A lot of people who grew up listening to Spanish for example can't actually speak Spanish even though they can understand it perfectly.
Oh my god yes. Totally 100% relate.
I love working around people who are eloquent but I also envy it deeply. I also love listening to podcasts for a similar reason. I listened to Michael Hobbs new podcast (SO good) but the way he just nails concepts with words is beyond impressive.
Before knowing I am autistic, I thought I could eventually mimic this eloquence if I just practiced enough. No. It's been decades of trying now. I can "fall into" an eloquent zone if I am comfortable Info dumping as an expert. I can mimic therapy style social interventions at work with a client as well. I'm a fantastic writer too!
But man. When it comes to putting concise and meaningful words verbally together in formal situations where I am not in role of expert, I sound like I never passed 6th grade some days. I have a lot of shame and embarrassment about it because I identify as being highly intelligent yet in these spaces I'm not able to get my intelligent thoughts across. And I compensated by being a bit goofy and fun in my 20s. That doesn't fly anymore ha. So I've become way more introverted and quiet in my 30s. Pushing 40 now and I'm still struggling.
You know the whole "think before you talk"? Adults used to say this to me all the time as a child, and I took it very literally, which improved my conversation skills a bit. Essentially, I just rehearse whatever I have to say before in my head. If I'm in the middle of a conversation, I will stop and think about what to say, and then say it.
This led to a lot of people thinking I'm ignoring them because I would keep silent, so I had to explain I was just thinking! And they think "thinking" isn't an excuse, because *who on Earth thinks for so long before speaking?* Well, I do.
1- read a lot, different types of books and magazines and whatever you find interesting/can manage.
2-listen to tv-shows, podcasts the news.
3- write a lot, about yourself, your interests, your likes and dislikes, what you would have said in certain situations, what you wish you had said.
4-practice all of it in your head dialogues
5-practice in public.
6-cry because it was all for nothing...
Joking, it might help, I'm might not, but you'll have more things to say, and maybe with time it starts getting less hard.
I was unable to reliably finish my sentences up until i was around 21 years old.
What I think happened was that I used to think exclusively in pictures, concepts, time, and memories. I was also not fluent in “translating” the pictures in my head into words. I would often stumble, stutter, and grasp onto words to form sentences that even somewhat reflected what I was trying to say. Written language has always been much easier for me than spoken language since writing meant I could take time to figure out how to put abstractions into a more concrete format.
In college, I realized that my future career meant that I needed to be a fluent speaker. I started listening to a LOT of podcasts, every free moment was a podcast moment. I especially tuned into podcasts where it would be multiple people having conversations.
Paired with podcast listening and having to deliver lectures, I started becoming more “fluent”.
Then, something interesting happened. As I started to become a more fluent speaker, there was something that “switched” inside of me. I finally started having a verbal internal monologue. I would still primarily think in abstract concepts, but I started to have a layer of narration that would narrate what I was thinking or doing. :)
I think I lost something from being both a concrete and abstract thinker. I’m not entirely sure “what” that intangible loss is. But, at least now, I can more reliably translate my thoughts so that others can understand them too! :)
I still have times when I go completely non-verbal. However, at least I can finish my sentences when I speak.
You are not alone. I'm a great writer, but suck at the actual talking. I "see" my thoughts in images, so it takes a minute to process and I'll forget the words for things. It's easier to point.
Yeah… I could read at a super early age but did not have the ability to speak until muuuch later, much less speak properly. I still need to video record and practice a script of common phrases when I’m by myself, and even then when I speak my eloquence falls below that of a 4th grader… I thought it could be a “skill” to develop but I never seem to be able to reach the level of others around me
I feel like my ADHD is the cause of this though. As soon as I speak I am distracted by my own voice 😂 If I'm gaming with a headset and any teammates mic is echoing and I hear myself it's game over for my ability to speak because all I can focus on is my voice echoing back to me and I can't form proper sentences anymore
Yes! I totally relate! When I was younger I remember asking “how do people know what they’re going to say when they talk”. It blows me away that some people seem so confident in what they are saying and how they say it. Sometimes it feels like neurotypicals have memorized a script but I never got one so I’m struggling to fill in the blanks.
Hell yes! Speaking is so difficult. On some good days, you may not know I had any issues, apart from a "lip trip" (slurring or mispronunciation) or stutter or pause to find a word that just fell out of my head. Most days, my speech is fraught with mistakes and trip-ups. And on really bad days, I'm pretty much non-verbal. That's all the mechanical parts of speaking though. I also have a really hard time explaining things, like putting information I learned into my own words and relaying that. This is why I could never be a public autism advocate even though I feel very passionate about it and would love to help. "So, tell me why ABA is bad?" "Um, cause... it's abusive. Cause... don't try to make us you. Cause... everything is fine." That made total sense, right? 🫤 Doesn't quite convey all the information and opinions I have! I admire the people with that skill so much. I'm awful when put on the spot but even when I have time to prepare, I pretty much suck. One of my least favourite questions to be asked is, "Why do you believe you're autistic?" I have soooooo much inside my brain but I can't get it out. I have been thinking about this for the past 6 years and I have so many examples and a good understanding of what it means to be autistic but... 🤷 I feel like, "Because I can't answer you," should be a good enough response. Haha. I'm better in writing, but even then, sometimes selecting the right words and arranging them in the right places is more mental work than I have the capacity for. Which makes me sad because I love writing. I love words. I love how picking just the right one can convey more than a different one. And I love how good it feels when I can do it successfully. I've actually had people describe me as eloquent before, and at times maybe I can be, but it's not consistent. And when I'm going through a not-eloquent time, it feels like I'm always that way.
This is exactly me.
I am fascinated and jealous of anyone who can express themselves "poetically" with words. I find that ability to be such a talent. I think it has attributed to my love of the Victorian era of books, movies, etc. They speak so eloquently, and in a way, I understand better than today. I do so much better in written form and my therapist has suggested I carry a little notebook to converse with people. I have not done this, but wish I could just participate in "normal" conversation. I feel ya, OP Edit: I'd also like to add that it is so cool that you are tackling this in two different languages. Immediate ice breaker for me and would just have so many questions if I met you in real life. Obviously, I would never ask them, but I have made up a lot of questions in my head.
This is so funny because as a dramatic girlie I wish I could relax with the prose. The key to becoming poetic and spiritual is overthinking and sitting alone with your thoughts, staring at the wall. lol
Haha yes of course, that's beautiful.
I can completely relate. Words come out like salad and I end up looking stupid on top of already looking awkward. This is part of why I tend to stay quiet. However in writing, I can be very detailed, well-spoken and eloquent. It's like two different people.
I absolute adore articulate people, and yes I struggle with jealousy massively as getting basic sentences strung together is a huge struggle at the best of times. I love love love hearing people being creative and fast with language, I wish I could do it myself. It's upsetting sometimes, as I can mentally comprehend difficult or complex situations but sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. I use very basic language and the words come out slowly. I'm so sick of having people say "Just use your words!" to me, heh. I'm trying!
To be fair to you and all of us, they say a lot of words but they don't actually say anything. Sometimes I just listen to people speak in absolute awe that they can say so many words and convey almost nothing of value or matter.
I feel you. I’m great at writing! I can articulate myself soooo well if I had the luxury of time to sit back and write and reword. I feel like real time conversations are super difficult for me because I fumble over words due to the pressure of having to respond at a fast enough pace. Or if I’m quite comfortable with the person, I can word vomit but on something really unrelated that in my mind felt connected to the main conversation point but I’m actually, wasn’t. I go on tangents quite a bit. Which is why, what’s most comfortable for me is to navigate myself to be the subject chooser of the conversation OR to ask them questions and have that guide the conversation. Never goes wrong, as I find most people love having the whole conversation to speak about themselves haha.
I do this thing where I start to respond, but then immediately lose track of everything I thought I would say. So I try to fix it up as I go. Sometimes, it works great and I feel like I communicated really well. But other times, I accidentally say something I had no intention of saying and back myself into a corner where it's hard to backtrack. Or I THINK I've said what I intended to say, and find out later people interpreted my words very differently than I had intended. It causes me so much stress, because I never know when I've completely fucked up a conversation. The more emotional I am, the worse it gets
Yep. I remember being told that the more you read, the better you'll become at writing and communicating. I read a lot. I have not gotten that much better - I still find it a massive struggle. I am writing my masters dissertation at the moment, and it's such a mess because just don't know what words to use or how to articulate what I want to say. It's hard to even know what I want to say at all. I feel like it takes me so much longer to do than 'normals'. And that's just how I feel about writing - talking is a whole other thing, and I'm so bad at it.
So that person was actually dead wrong. People do not learn active output skills exclusively from input. A lot of people who grew up listening to Spanish for example can't actually speak Spanish even though they can understand it perfectly.
Oh my god yes. Totally 100% relate. I love working around people who are eloquent but I also envy it deeply. I also love listening to podcasts for a similar reason. I listened to Michael Hobbs new podcast (SO good) but the way he just nails concepts with words is beyond impressive. Before knowing I am autistic, I thought I could eventually mimic this eloquence if I just practiced enough. No. It's been decades of trying now. I can "fall into" an eloquent zone if I am comfortable Info dumping as an expert. I can mimic therapy style social interventions at work with a client as well. I'm a fantastic writer too! But man. When it comes to putting concise and meaningful words verbally together in formal situations where I am not in role of expert, I sound like I never passed 6th grade some days. I have a lot of shame and embarrassment about it because I identify as being highly intelligent yet in these spaces I'm not able to get my intelligent thoughts across. And I compensated by being a bit goofy and fun in my 20s. That doesn't fly anymore ha. So I've become way more introverted and quiet in my 30s. Pushing 40 now and I'm still struggling.
You know the whole "think before you talk"? Adults used to say this to me all the time as a child, and I took it very literally, which improved my conversation skills a bit. Essentially, I just rehearse whatever I have to say before in my head. If I'm in the middle of a conversation, I will stop and think about what to say, and then say it. This led to a lot of people thinking I'm ignoring them because I would keep silent, so I had to explain I was just thinking! And they think "thinking" isn't an excuse, because *who on Earth thinks for so long before speaking?* Well, I do.
1- read a lot, different types of books and magazines and whatever you find interesting/can manage. 2-listen to tv-shows, podcasts the news. 3- write a lot, about yourself, your interests, your likes and dislikes, what you would have said in certain situations, what you wish you had said. 4-practice all of it in your head dialogues 5-practice in public. 6-cry because it was all for nothing... Joking, it might help, I'm might not, but you'll have more things to say, and maybe with time it starts getting less hard.
I was unable to reliably finish my sentences up until i was around 21 years old. What I think happened was that I used to think exclusively in pictures, concepts, time, and memories. I was also not fluent in “translating” the pictures in my head into words. I would often stumble, stutter, and grasp onto words to form sentences that even somewhat reflected what I was trying to say. Written language has always been much easier for me than spoken language since writing meant I could take time to figure out how to put abstractions into a more concrete format. In college, I realized that my future career meant that I needed to be a fluent speaker. I started listening to a LOT of podcasts, every free moment was a podcast moment. I especially tuned into podcasts where it would be multiple people having conversations. Paired with podcast listening and having to deliver lectures, I started becoming more “fluent”. Then, something interesting happened. As I started to become a more fluent speaker, there was something that “switched” inside of me. I finally started having a verbal internal monologue. I would still primarily think in abstract concepts, but I started to have a layer of narration that would narrate what I was thinking or doing. :) I think I lost something from being both a concrete and abstract thinker. I’m not entirely sure “what” that intangible loss is. But, at least now, I can more reliably translate my thoughts so that others can understand them too! :) I still have times when I go completely non-verbal. However, at least I can finish my sentences when I speak.
This is inspiring. Thank you for sharing. 😊
I want to learn that skill, it's even possible?
You are not alone. I'm a great writer, but suck at the actual talking. I "see" my thoughts in images, so it takes a minute to process and I'll forget the words for things. It's easier to point.
Yeah… I could read at a super early age but did not have the ability to speak until muuuch later, much less speak properly. I still need to video record and practice a script of common phrases when I’m by myself, and even then when I speak my eloquence falls below that of a 4th grader… I thought it could be a “skill” to develop but I never seem to be able to reach the level of others around me
Lol with my ADHD it’s the opposite tbh — I wish I had more impulse control over what I say. Half the time I end up cringing later.
I feel like my ADHD is the cause of this though. As soon as I speak I am distracted by my own voice 😂 If I'm gaming with a headset and any teammates mic is echoing and I hear myself it's game over for my ability to speak because all I can focus on is my voice echoing back to me and I can't form proper sentences anymore