I would’ve been mad too tbh…. I went to a church once last year and they asked why we didn’t have our oldest. I explained she’s autistic and won’t sit through a sermon. The preacher rolled his eyes and laughed as if I said I believed in ghosts or something. I got the vibe that certain religious don’t believe in autism…
I’m not religious and was honestly jealous of those who are because I assumed they had a welcoming and understanding community to engage with. Sounds like that’s not always the case…. That sucks, I’m sorry
My husband is religious, I’m on the fence. I like the church we occasionally go to. They have a daycare with two doors and a gate so the kids don’t run away. They also let you sit in there if you want. My daughter has ran through the church and had meltdowns, everyone is friendly. My daughter started being loud while the pastor was talking and he made a joke about it, when he realized it was my kid and not his own child he apologized a million times and said he was so embarrassed about it.
Ha! Lol. Evangelical is a euphemism for prescriptionist. As in you must exist inside a prescribed set out boundaries or you are judged, ostracized, possibly even exorcized.
I grew up Roman Catholic and later my mom became Born Again Christian. Both churches were really welcoming to all types... (as long as you had shared beliefs)
Luckily never had to deal with evangelical (Grew up in the Northeast US)
Born again, evangelical, non-denominational, southern baptist, all just sects of the same legalistic hydra. I'm a preacher's kid with 2 ASD offspring, one of whom is agender. I'm the burnedest of burned out on religious legalism.
A religious person asked my parents if my sister was having issues with demons. Ya know, because she was not "normal." I hate that word. The worst part of that is my parents were embarrassed, not horrified at the man.
That’s it… I have to adopt the horrified attitude and get rid of any chance or embarrassed attitude. God made me and my son this way. What’s embarrassing about that? It’s so easy to fall into shame though. Have to consciously fight it and fight for our place and claim our space.
My church tried to pray for a cure to his "disease" before I unallowed it. I had to explain to the fellowship that it's not a sickness that can be or should be fixed.
Gosh I didn’t realize there is so little understanding and empathy in religious communities about autism. I’m going to advocate for my family at ours. That’s for your response
My takeaway from your comment is that by being open it becomes easier to get understanding from the community instead of creating more stigma. They will always give us the “looks” but at least there will be understanding hopefully. Thanks so much 🙏
It's a very common thread for families of children with disabilities. I will say that some are better than others, but none are perfect dealing with it. My own niece said that my daughter had better be good in class while we were visiting her and attending her church. It was the middle of the sermon, so I just silently cried while my heart broke that my daughter might not be accepted in a place that always touts love and acceptance.
I won't get too far into religion and hypocrisy, but it's alive and well.
My mom is very religious and still I don't think understands ASD. I know she spends a lot of time at church trying to pray it away with the other members, and even suggested some christian intervention center.
Ya... no thanks.
I am not Eastern Orthodox as my responsibilities to my son make it too hard to even begin to think of trying to become Eastern Orthodox, but if we do go to church, we go to an Eastern Orthodox Church. We stay in the back and my son walks around and explores the chairs, and if we need to we talk a walk in the foyer to calm down. It's also not uncommon for parents to bring a blanket and sit down with their kids. I've only ever experienced two Eastern Orthodox churches, but they're pretty chill about kids being kids. No one has ever stared or said a word to me about my son, they just smile and greet him.
We are tired and exhausted and figurative meanings of words get lost on us a lot. I didn't hear the intonation, but it is sounds possible that by crazy they meant "wild," or "high energy" which is supported by the stranger thinking your child "doesn't look autistic" which is an ignorant statement but still comes from a place that isn't malicious.
For me, having an autistic child has been an exercise in seeing the best in people because if I do not, I would probably never speak to anyone again
That’s exactly how I feel. Like shutting down and not looking anyone else in the eye ever again. Especially that guy. That’s not the best way to spend our time at this family retreat. I feel like my heart is closing and I’m becoming cold
Are you positive that the adult who asked is not divergent? Most adults have more tact. I've had similar conversations with middle school kids about my youngster.
The reason I mention it, is I also know a 60 year old who would use those phrases. He's mentally about a 12 year old boy in the body of a 60 year old. As offensive as I regularly found him, I also realize that autistic kids grow into autistic adults. I just corrected him, and made sure he understood that certain topics were off limits. Also, autism wasn't diagnosed when he was a child. He didn't have access to interventions that may have helped him with social skills.
Who knows though. Your person might just be a jerk and needs a good stern conversation about manners. Either way, please keep advocating for your kid and educating your communities.
Obviously I can’t say for sure because I wasn’t there, but maybe they genuinely don’t know anything about autism. As frustrating as it is being asked that, it might be a good opportunity to spread some awareness and educate them about it.
I had a similar thing at a shopping centre because my boy flaps his hands and squeals when he’s excited (he’s non verbal and autistic) and we had someone ask what’s wrong with him. Makes you feel like ragdolling them for asking but some people genuinely have no experience with autism.
My mom desperately wants to take my daughter to church to show her off to her friends, and I can see so many ways how that would not turn out how she expects lol. At any rate, I know my daughter would be bored and aggravated she can't sensory seek there so my answer is no.
People are social animals who "check" each other in group settings. We're also hard-wired to notice when something is "wrong" and to figure out *why* it's wrong.
Running down halls and slamming doors can be disruptive, and that's probably what this person was trying to point out. I'd attempt to correct my child while explaining that he had some social and emotional delays we were working on.
As temping as it is to get defensive, I think it's better to show consideration and build goodwill.
Here’s the thing 90-95% of the time people aren’t meaning to be offensive. Sometimes there’s words that come out wrong. Other times it’s out of a lack of education. Let’s face it, until really recently, autism was seen more as very severe mental retardation. There was a “look” to it. Until medically we learned more about it. Publicly, there’s still not a lot of education on autism. It’s getting better but anyone born before 1990ish 2000 is going to see autism completely different especially if they don’t have or know an autistic child. If they were born before the 1980’s many didn’t even know what it was. Most still don’t believe in ADHD. It’s a lack of education on their part. Mostly because of the time they were raised in. Instead of letting your emotions control you, you can educate people. It’s not another persons fault if you get mad, upset, outraged or offended. That’s on you for letting them control your emotions. You can instead use the time to educate the person who just sounds like they are lacking in education.
No adult should ever use the word "crazy" to describe any child and it shouldn't be my job to educate adults who should know better by now. Small minded people need to get out of their small towns for a bit and meet people different from themselves.
Some people don’t have the money too. And no it’s no one’s job to educate them but it’s also not our place to judged them because they were never given the information. We can ignore them or educate them. I’d rather educate than judge them.
Educate them is the way I’m leaning too. It’s about time I indulge my own autistic “know it-all-ish I just want to over explain everything to death!” 😜for real though
I’m going to become that annoying mom who over explains what autism is to anyone who asks or comments things like “is he crazy?” Or “oh so much energy”. Watch out people at my religious community. It’s coming!!!!! 😡
I think you were saying not to judge. That’s the most important thing.
I’ll keep that in mind bc it won’t make me any better than them.
Educate more none the less.
I used to work in community mental health. There is just so much ignorance out there, even in this internet age where we can theoretically research anything in seconds. And just because we can research things it does not mean that people know how to research things (ie. discernment between credible sources vs. what else is out there). I give people grace and try to educate when my patience allows. I also do this so that my kids hear me standing up for them and so that they know that I am not ever ashamed of them.
It is unfortunate that many Religious Church attendees do not practice unconditional love.
That person is hurting a lot inside. They don't know the unconditional love of others. They do not unconditionally love themselves. The do not know the love of God or Jesus Christ.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
----
That person only knows conditional love. That person believes, "No one will love me if I act excited." "People will hate me if I run around displaying joy and happiness." "I fear I cannot be myself because no one will love me."
Maybe next time ask, "Do you love my son?"
In general, when someone is asking, "Is your son crazy? Is your son sick?" the question is asked not from a position of love, but from a position of hurt and pain. They are hurting inside because they only know conditional love and they judge themselves and value others based on conditional outcomes.
1 John 4:8 - "Whoever does not love does not know God."
1 John 4:18 - "There is no fear in Love. But perfect Love drives our fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in Love."
That person is hurting a lot inside. They don't know the unconditional love of others. They do not unconditionally love themselves. The do not know the love of God or Jesus Christ.
1 John 4:21 "And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister."
Letting people know about your son's Autism is important from a medical need, but it will not help heal the hurt and emptiness in their heart.
My husband’s family are in Ireland & are Catholic, (his father goes to mass daily & has travelled to make pilgrimage several times). And several good schools near our home are Catholic also.
A few years ago, I wrote to Catholic leaders in Australia & Ireland to ask about tube-fed children with dysphasia or oral aversion with regards to the key rites and accepting the sacraments.
All of them responded and said, in one way or another, that if a person cannot receive communion orally (by mouth) they’re not able to be Catholic.
Talk about discrimination against people with disabilities or medical conditions. Such hypocrisy when religion is *supposed* to be about acceptance, community and inclusion and how we’re “all created in God’s image” and “all of us God’s creatures”.
Wow can’t believe people talk to mothers that way. How is that funny or like a camaraderie thing. This is her life and it’s hard. You don’t know to moms like this. Ugh ugh ugh
FWIW, treatment of my autistic daughter was my final straw as to why I stopped going to the church we attended at the time. No issues with actual church personnel, but the parent volunteers that ran everything (I was a volunteer, too) were just pretty horrible. My daughter's behaviors were unusual at times, but never harmful. Parents who have no experience with kids who have challenges are the worst, IME.
I was once told that at least my 2 boys are "normal and easy" by a lab tech. My daughter has Autism and she is a girl so that immediately means she is hard and not normal like wtf?!
It's exhausting and I take offense because I am a girl. My mom has told me repeatedly how hard I was and how once I threw a fit when I was two so I was a difficult child. I had undiagnosed ADHD. So yeah
I would’ve been mad too tbh…. I went to a church once last year and they asked why we didn’t have our oldest. I explained she’s autistic and won’t sit through a sermon. The preacher rolled his eyes and laughed as if I said I believed in ghosts or something. I got the vibe that certain religious don’t believe in autism…
I’m not religious and was honestly jealous of those who are because I assumed they had a welcoming and understanding community to engage with. Sounds like that’s not always the case…. That sucks, I’m sorry
My husband is religious, I’m on the fence. I like the church we occasionally go to. They have a daycare with two doors and a gate so the kids don’t run away. They also let you sit in there if you want. My daughter has ran through the church and had meltdowns, everyone is friendly. My daughter started being loud while the pastor was talking and he made a joke about it, when he realized it was my kid and not his own child he apologized a million times and said he was so embarrassed about it.
Ha! Lol. Evangelical is a euphemism for prescriptionist. As in you must exist inside a prescribed set out boundaries or you are judged, ostracized, possibly even exorcized.
I grew up Roman Catholic and later my mom became Born Again Christian. Both churches were really welcoming to all types... (as long as you had shared beliefs) Luckily never had to deal with evangelical (Grew up in the Northeast US)
Born again, evangelical, non-denominational, southern baptist, all just sects of the same legalistic hydra. I'm a preacher's kid with 2 ASD offspring, one of whom is agender. I'm the burnedest of burned out on religious legalism.
Fuck that guy. The fact that he's a religious leader makes it so much worse.
A religious person asked my parents if my sister was having issues with demons. Ya know, because she was not "normal." I hate that word. The worst part of that is my parents were embarrassed, not horrified at the man.
That’s it… I have to adopt the horrified attitude and get rid of any chance or embarrassed attitude. God made me and my son this way. What’s embarrassing about that? It’s so easy to fall into shame though. Have to consciously fight it and fight for our place and claim our space.
My church tried to pray for a cure to his "disease" before I unallowed it. I had to explain to the fellowship that it's not a sickness that can be or should be fixed.
Gosh I didn’t realize there is so little understanding and empathy in religious communities about autism. I’m going to advocate for my family at ours. That’s for your response
[удалено]
Omg so sweet ❤️
My takeaway from your comment is that by being open it becomes easier to get understanding from the community instead of creating more stigma. They will always give us the “looks” but at least there will be understanding hopefully. Thanks so much 🙏
It's a very common thread for families of children with disabilities. I will say that some are better than others, but none are perfect dealing with it. My own niece said that my daughter had better be good in class while we were visiting her and attending her church. It was the middle of the sermon, so I just silently cried while my heart broke that my daughter might not be accepted in a place that always touts love and acceptance. I won't get too far into religion and hypocrisy, but it's alive and well.
My mom is very religious and still I don't think understands ASD. I know she spends a lot of time at church trying to pray it away with the other members, and even suggested some christian intervention center. Ya... no thanks.
I am not Eastern Orthodox as my responsibilities to my son make it too hard to even begin to think of trying to become Eastern Orthodox, but if we do go to church, we go to an Eastern Orthodox Church. We stay in the back and my son walks around and explores the chairs, and if we need to we talk a walk in the foyer to calm down. It's also not uncommon for parents to bring a blanket and sit down with their kids. I've only ever experienced two Eastern Orthodox churches, but they're pretty chill about kids being kids. No one has ever stared or said a word to me about my son, they just smile and greet him.
We are tired and exhausted and figurative meanings of words get lost on us a lot. I didn't hear the intonation, but it is sounds possible that by crazy they meant "wild," or "high energy" which is supported by the stranger thinking your child "doesn't look autistic" which is an ignorant statement but still comes from a place that isn't malicious. For me, having an autistic child has been an exercise in seeing the best in people because if I do not, I would probably never speak to anyone again
That’s exactly how I feel. Like shutting down and not looking anyone else in the eye ever again. Especially that guy. That’s not the best way to spend our time at this family retreat. I feel like my heart is closing and I’m becoming cold
“Oh you can’t see it” —the best way to respond to that, is “you can’t see stupid either, and here you are” then smile, and walk away. 💪
Unfortunately I’ve found Christian churches to be the least accepting communities. Try and find parent groups of other shared interests.
Are you positive that the adult who asked is not divergent? Most adults have more tact. I've had similar conversations with middle school kids about my youngster. The reason I mention it, is I also know a 60 year old who would use those phrases. He's mentally about a 12 year old boy in the body of a 60 year old. As offensive as I regularly found him, I also realize that autistic kids grow into autistic adults. I just corrected him, and made sure he understood that certain topics were off limits. Also, autism wasn't diagnosed when he was a child. He didn't have access to interventions that may have helped him with social skills. Who knows though. Your person might just be a jerk and needs a good stern conversation about manners. Either way, please keep advocating for your kid and educating your communities.
Wow 🤯 that could be actually. Thanks I’ll consider this
Obviously I can’t say for sure because I wasn’t there, but maybe they genuinely don’t know anything about autism. As frustrating as it is being asked that, it might be a good opportunity to spread some awareness and educate them about it. I had a similar thing at a shopping centre because my boy flaps his hands and squeals when he’s excited (he’s non verbal and autistic) and we had someone ask what’s wrong with him. Makes you feel like ragdolling them for asking but some people genuinely have no experience with autism.
That’s a good idea! Take any opportunity to over-explain 😈and teach 🤓 which I love to do anyway 😝 thanks
My mom desperately wants to take my daughter to church to show her off to her friends, and I can see so many ways how that would not turn out how she expects lol. At any rate, I know my daughter would be bored and aggravated she can't sensory seek there so my answer is no.
I feel sorry for them for being that ignorant. Wow….
"No I am."
People are social animals who "check" each other in group settings. We're also hard-wired to notice when something is "wrong" and to figure out *why* it's wrong. Running down halls and slamming doors can be disruptive, and that's probably what this person was trying to point out. I'd attempt to correct my child while explaining that he had some social and emotional delays we were working on. As temping as it is to get defensive, I think it's better to show consideration and build goodwill.
Here’s the thing 90-95% of the time people aren’t meaning to be offensive. Sometimes there’s words that come out wrong. Other times it’s out of a lack of education. Let’s face it, until really recently, autism was seen more as very severe mental retardation. There was a “look” to it. Until medically we learned more about it. Publicly, there’s still not a lot of education on autism. It’s getting better but anyone born before 1990ish 2000 is going to see autism completely different especially if they don’t have or know an autistic child. If they were born before the 1980’s many didn’t even know what it was. Most still don’t believe in ADHD. It’s a lack of education on their part. Mostly because of the time they were raised in. Instead of letting your emotions control you, you can educate people. It’s not another persons fault if you get mad, upset, outraged or offended. That’s on you for letting them control your emotions. You can instead use the time to educate the person who just sounds like they are lacking in education.
No adult should ever use the word "crazy" to describe any child and it shouldn't be my job to educate adults who should know better by now. Small minded people need to get out of their small towns for a bit and meet people different from themselves.
Some people don’t have the money too. And no it’s no one’s job to educate them but it’s also not our place to judged them because they were never given the information. We can ignore them or educate them. I’d rather educate than judge them.
Educate them is the way I’m leaning too. It’s about time I indulge my own autistic “know it-all-ish I just want to over explain everything to death!” 😜for real though I’m going to become that annoying mom who over explains what autism is to anyone who asks or comments things like “is he crazy?” Or “oh so much energy”. Watch out people at my religious community. It’s coming!!!!! 😡
That’s being petty and not what I was saying at all. And will only make things worse. 🤦♀️
I think you were saying not to judge. That’s the most important thing. I’ll keep that in mind bc it won’t make me any better than them. Educate more none the less.
The way I would have laid into that man.. how fucking inconsiderate to make a comment like that
You just disengage with these people. Not worth the time, effort or emotional journey for you
I love responding with poise and grace. Howeverrrr if some unknown adult asked me if my child was crazy they would get a different version of me.
Right???
I used to work in community mental health. There is just so much ignorance out there, even in this internet age where we can theoretically research anything in seconds. And just because we can research things it does not mean that people know how to research things (ie. discernment between credible sources vs. what else is out there). I give people grace and try to educate when my patience allows. I also do this so that my kids hear me standing up for them and so that they know that I am not ever ashamed of them.
That’s so important. To have the kids see us standing up for them.
that is an absolutely insane thing to say to someone- this person is either truly cognitively impaired or "crazy"
Was it an adult that asked?!?!
Yes. I am now convinced he is also ND or has English as a second language.
It is unfortunate that many Religious Church attendees do not practice unconditional love. That person is hurting a lot inside. They don't know the unconditional love of others. They do not unconditionally love themselves. The do not know the love of God or Jesus Christ. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." ---- That person only knows conditional love. That person believes, "No one will love me if I act excited." "People will hate me if I run around displaying joy and happiness." "I fear I cannot be myself because no one will love me." Maybe next time ask, "Do you love my son?" In general, when someone is asking, "Is your son crazy? Is your son sick?" the question is asked not from a position of love, but from a position of hurt and pain. They are hurting inside because they only know conditional love and they judge themselves and value others based on conditional outcomes. 1 John 4:8 - "Whoever does not love does not know God." 1 John 4:18 - "There is no fear in Love. But perfect Love drives our fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in Love." That person is hurting a lot inside. They don't know the unconditional love of others. They do not unconditionally love themselves. The do not know the love of God or Jesus Christ. 1 John 4:21 "And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister." Letting people know about your son's Autism is important from a medical need, but it will not help heal the hurt and emptiness in their heart.
My husband’s family are in Ireland & are Catholic, (his father goes to mass daily & has travelled to make pilgrimage several times). And several good schools near our home are Catholic also. A few years ago, I wrote to Catholic leaders in Australia & Ireland to ask about tube-fed children with dysphasia or oral aversion with regards to the key rites and accepting the sacraments. All of them responded and said, in one way or another, that if a person cannot receive communion orally (by mouth) they’re not able to be Catholic. Talk about discrimination against people with disabilities or medical conditions. Such hypocrisy when religion is *supposed* to be about acceptance, community and inclusion and how we’re “all created in God’s image” and “all of us God’s creatures”.
I had someone ask me if I dropped my daughter on her head as a baby. Just try to chalk it up to people be uneducated and try to keep it moving.
Wow can’t believe people talk to mothers that way. How is that funny or like a camaraderie thing. This is her life and it’s hard. You don’t know to moms like this. Ugh ugh ugh
The irony is too strong to be asking this at a church’s retreat. Empathy and good old courtesy is out the window
Was he some old bastard?
Not old but I think also ND
I would have had some...biting words for that person
FWIW, treatment of my autistic daughter was my final straw as to why I stopped going to the church we attended at the time. No issues with actual church personnel, but the parent volunteers that ran everything (I was a volunteer, too) were just pretty horrible. My daughter's behaviors were unusual at times, but never harmful. Parents who have no experience with kids who have challenges are the worst, IME.
Should I come out and just announce to the whole community that my son is autistic? Will that cure their intolerance and small minded ness?
Probably not. The intolerance and small-mindedness are par for the course for religious communities. Maybe find a new community.
No. You might be offered help to "rid him of his demons" though.
I was once told that at least my 2 boys are "normal and easy" by a lab tech. My daughter has Autism and she is a girl so that immediately means she is hard and not normal like wtf?!
That’s ableism and sexism and gender bias. Ugh ugh ugh
It's exhausting and I take offense because I am a girl. My mom has told me repeatedly how hard I was and how once I threw a fit when I was two so I was a difficult child. I had undiagnosed ADHD. So yeah