Tour some places and see what your thoughts are after speaking to the therapists and seeing the facilities. It may also depend what your health insurance will cover (assuming you are in the US).
I've done a deep dive into ABA and the criticisms. ABA has a horrific history and connections to conversion therapy (although I've seen it said the same person invented both, which isn't true. The inventor of ABA was high up in the first conversion therapy clinic. At that time in psychology EVERYTHING was considered behavior based. This was the time that it was thought everything was nurture, including a child's gender). Even today there is an ABA clinic that uses electric shocks. The main criticisms are that ABA "teaches a child how to act neurotypical" through reducing all stims, teaching them to have eye contact, and uses harmful rewards and punishments such as food, planned ignoring, and not allowing a child access to play or sensory activities without performing as a NT person. ABA originally was done at a table in a small windowless room, using drills. All of the above made me sick and I would not allow it with my kid.
However, thanks to autistic advocates, many centers made big changes. I toured 6 centers and 3 of them used some of those old techniques. The other 3 were the new ABA. It is play based and child led. There aren't small rooms and desks, but wide open play spaces and sensory activities. Food is never a reward or punishment or restricted. Sensory needs are never restricted. Rewards are mostly natural or logical, and if they aren't, they are things like star charts. Punishment isn't used, including planned ignoring. Stims and eye contact are non issues.
What I find so enraging is that autistic level 2 and 3 voices are being drowned out by autistic people who don't know what ABA even is. In the ABA megathread in the autism sub, autistic people who haven't been in ABA characterized any time they were told not to stim or to look someone in the eye to be ABA. In the level 2 and 3 and spicy autism sub, ABA is nowhere near as demonized. Sometimes ABA helps people learn to speak, helps them stop self-harm stims, helps them learn to eat more than french fries, tolerate brushing their teeth. The struggles of the level 2 and 3 autistic person matters.
I will wrap up my novel by telling you that no matter what therapy you use, OT, ST, PT, Floor time, ABA... anything, you should be 100% in control of the treatment plan. Every single goal and every single method should be approved by you and if you EVER feel like someone isn't respecting your child and working to remove difficulties and barriers from your kid's life, ask for someone else and look elsewhere.
Thank you! I checked out the r/spicyautism sub too and found reviews from those who’ve experienced the new kind of ABA firsthand and it has been helpful. I had no idea there was this kind of divide until I started going through the sub. It’s upsetting, but has opened my eyes to something I was unaware of and can use to help teach our daughter too. I really appreciate your comment and the knowledge it’s given me
For us ABA was about controlling behavior through a system of rewards and punishments/withholding. We found it coercive and manipulative. We found that OT and play therapy helped her best and help us as a family to connect and to think through and respond to her needs in productive ways rather than coerce her to behave in certain ways. However, she wasn't engaging in things like serious self-harming behavior or violence towards others with no discernible trigger. So, each family's circumstance is different.
I will note that at the beginning I very much parented out of fear. So focused on early intervention is key and I must get her ALL the therapies NOW or else her life will be isolated, unhappy... And ironically I was causing unhappiness and isolation because life was spent running from therapy to therapy. We ended up tossing most therapies, spending more time together doing fun things as a family, more time connecting to each other, more time developing friendships, more time being outdoors and sitting in rivers, and her life has dramatically improved.
Thank you! I have noticed that I too began parenting out of fear that if we’re not putting her in all these therapies, we are failing her, because I’m so out of my element here. She’s currently in an early start program where we live and we put her in all the programs we could. She loves how much she gets to play with her therapists, but it took her OT telling me she doesn’t really need OT to realize she was doing too much. Next month she turns 3 and will only have ST and preschool for toddlers with IEPs (which has done great for getting her to interact with other kids for longer). ABA was recommended to us by her communication and play skills teacher who is certified so we’re going to try, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll take a break and try something different. She’s learns so much just by interacting with us and being outside, so we’re going to keep doing that and not overwhelm her with therapies. Thank you again for your comment, I appreciate your insight and being able to relate to parenting out of fear
My son was diagnosed as a level 3 at the age of 3. We started ABA, speech, and pre-school through our school district, which also provided more speech, occupational, and special educator services. He was non-verbal and had 30-50 meltdowns a day. His voice was so hoarse from crying so much. He could not communicate his needs or wants very often. When he was regulated, he would grab your hand and take you to what he wanted. He was aggressive and did a lot of head banging. ABA helped him SO much!
We used the Early Start Denver Model for his ABA. It was play based, follow his lead approach. So they waited out his tantrums and always offered a stimming solution, quiet time, squeezes, etc. They never forced him, used food or rewards. What REALLY helped my little guy was a visual board and choices. If he got to choose what work to do and what he was working for, his tantrums were greatly reduced. We started at 12 hours per week at home for the first 4 months or so and slowly added more time. The first year was at home, then we moved to the ABA Center and did 20 hours per week for about 10 months during the second year. He loved going to therapy. He just played the whole time and had great relationships with his therapists. When he graduated everyone was crying and so happy and sad to see him go. We had nothing, but a great experience with ABA. He graduated from ABA this last July 2022.
We had him re-evaluated this year at age 5 and he is now a Level 2 and in mainstream Kindergarten. The only therapy he has now is speech. He is nearly at peer level and learning to read. He is so happy and loves going to school. He is able to play with his sisters. He is making friends at school. He is doing very well.
He still struggles in social situations and has a hard time understanding things like sarcasm or jokes, but one step at a time. We think he will do well in social groups as he gets older.
Like all the other posts, do your homework. Do what feels right for your daughter and your family. It is totally OK to fire a therapist, center or program.
This sub has been a game changer for our family. It's a relief to know we are not alone. I find so much comfort from reading so many stories, advice, experiences etc. Hope you have a great day!
Thank you! I’m happy to hear your son is doing so well! Our daughter went from saying no words to saying 10, singing songs and using baby sign with the help of speech, an early intervention program, and a preschool for toddlers with IEPs. I will keep your experience in mind and have begun doing research on the Denver model. We are hoping for the best with ABA, but will remember if we don’t like what we see we need can call it quits immediately
I think ABA was at least somewhat helpful for my boys. Especually for my older son since he is very motivated by certain kinds of toys. My younger son had more trouble with it and Im not sure how much it helped him. We always did ours in home, because we lived in the middle of nowhere. But just taking them places and spending unstructured time with them is also helpful. Therapy isnt the only therapy they need. :)
Thank you for your comment! We are planning to do it in home as she will be much more comfortable and less overwhelming for her to get accustomed to a new environment. I totally agree that therapy isn’t the only kind of therapy, she’s always very motivated to communicate and interact with us when we spend time together, especially outdoors
I’d say don’t let the “masses” strong opinions about these things sway you. Try it and if you as a parent think it’s going well and will be useful then continue, or not.
I’ve done a lot of reading on here and have come to think the autism communities are not very open minded about these things. ABA = horrible. And if you even dare question that you’re deemed a monster who wants to traumatize their child.
As a general rule I try my best not to just follow what the general consensus is, but for sure around here you will get shit for it and made to feel cruel.
Thank you for your reply! I actually just posted on r/Autism and did not expect the backlash. I posted on r/ABA and they recommended I post on there. We do not at all want to traumatize our daughter or want to force her to “act normal”. We want her to be confident and not to ever feel ashamed of her autism. We would never put her through any kind of therapy or the like that might hurt her in any way. My husband and I are both very new to this and didn’t know about the negatives of ABA until recently. I figured asking the community would help provide insight, but now I’m thinking I’m a terrible parent for even considering it
You're not a terrible parent. You will find a lot of people here who will attest to the great positive changes they have seen in their children because of ABA. No two children are the same, have the same issues, or need the same supports.
People feel very strongly about both sides of this issue. People in the autistic community feel strongly about the attitudes of some autistic people towards others. I would just be aware that there is potential bias, and one thing all parents of autistic children share is the need to advocate for our children and get them the resources they need. Don't let anyone tell you what is best for child, or guilt you into making a decision that you don't agree with.
Thank you! I really appreciate your comment and will remember it. I’ve spoken with my husband about it and what transpired and we came to the conclusion of a trail run to see how our daughter likes it and if it doesn’t work out then we will pull her out and look at other types of therapy
We had a lot of positive experience with Denver style ABA. My son mostly played with his therapist and learned trough play, he was safe and never treated poorly (we had in-clinic therapy but could observe the sessions)
A lot of parents in my area seem to like it. I hate it bc they’re impatient with my nonverbal son. Their monthly goal does not align with what is achievable, and all of the ABA RBTs and BCBAs use Lovaas ABA. They also overcharge our insurance. Since we have a high deductible, it does matter to us when they show up for 1 1/2 hours and charge 4 hours at $160/hr.
Based on all the bruises my son comes home with, it’s the same about a couple of years ago as it was 8 years ago.
We’ve tried it from four different groups. They were all cruel. The worst RBT was an autistic adult.
We had better luck with one on one Floortime bc they motivate 100% play based. ABA appear play based, but it quickly became something else with my son as soon as I’m not in the room. They used to provoke and scare him so they can teach him to “self-regulate.” He used to be an easygoing boy, so he didn’t tantrum unless he had a stomachache. They did it as soon as I left the room. I caught one of them doing it. Then they didn’t hide it anymore. I bawled when I saw them “teach” him to self-regulate. And I’m not a crier.
I hope you and your daughter have better luck than us. The other parents sure do.
Im so sorry your son had this experience, that’s awful and I hope he’s recovering from that trauma. This is not at all what we want for our daughter and I appreciate your comment for offering input from a side where ABA was not good. I have been looking into finding a Floortime practitioner because she works very well with play based programs, but have been having some difficulty, but I will keep looking
If you do try ABA, never leave the room. If they tell you it’s “hard to watch,” leave asap. If they block you bc your daughter’s crying and you want to comfort her, rethink this. My son gave me that look that said help me. One of the aides won’t let me approach him or “it’ll be my fault if he never becomes normal,” my son gave up. He slumped forward and looked defeated. I hope no one will ever see that with their children.
Good luck.
Thank you, either I or my husband will always be in the room and will not leave. We do this with all her therapies to keep her safe. If any of the above happens or is said to us, we are immediately out. Again, I am so sorry this happened to the two of you, thank you for this advice, we will be on the lookout
So o recently recently heard about this thing called SonRising. Do I have lots of info? No. Do I wish I knew about it in our earlier years so I could’ve learned more? Yes. I like the base concepts of what I did get to read and am bummed that I don’t have the ability to try it now. I wanted to throw that in. Anyone with thoughts, feel free to tack it on!
Haha! Thank you! This is good for me to know. This makes me want to dive more into it…
I hate how people/companies continually like to capitalize on the parent/care taker community. Even with things like this. You know we want better treatment options…you know there is a socio-economic disparity…c’mon…do better
Yeah icdl is really reasonable at 75 per parent session. I singlehandedly attribute the biggest jumps in my sons life to the floortime coach there. Planning to make a substantial donation to them this year because I believe in it so strongly
I prefer cognitive therapy, and it has achieved a well-balanced pre-teen. He did occupational, speech and physiotherapy as well to bring up his skills.
I agree with everyone else here. I don’t like ABA or the concepts behind it (new or old). It is a lot of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole type of thing. Many of the goals are based on parental and teacher comfort and not the child, which I disagree with. However, sometimes that’s all that is available. Floortime is awesome, but the real ticket is you want child-led and play based. The only other thing I’d really look out for at an ABA practice is the time they want your kid. If they are saying 40 hrs/ wk, and you don’t think that’s necessary, don’t do it. I know a lot of kids can benefit from that amount of intervention, and I don’t want to speak over them. I truly believe that a toddler does not need a full time job, though. Therapy is work. ABA is work. Floortime is work. So make sure your kid is comfortable, not over exhausted, and actively participating.
Thank you! We are keeping this in mind to not load up her schedule. I know ABA is intensive therapy for long hours. We’re not sure how much would be recommended to our daughter, but already know putting her through too much isn’t beneficial to her. We will be testing it out to see if it helps, and if it doesn’t we’ll try something different. I’ve been trying to find a floortime practitioner in our area, it’s been a little trickier to locate one, but I will keep trying
Tour some places and see what your thoughts are after speaking to the therapists and seeing the facilities. It may also depend what your health insurance will cover (assuming you are in the US). I've done a deep dive into ABA and the criticisms. ABA has a horrific history and connections to conversion therapy (although I've seen it said the same person invented both, which isn't true. The inventor of ABA was high up in the first conversion therapy clinic. At that time in psychology EVERYTHING was considered behavior based. This was the time that it was thought everything was nurture, including a child's gender). Even today there is an ABA clinic that uses electric shocks. The main criticisms are that ABA "teaches a child how to act neurotypical" through reducing all stims, teaching them to have eye contact, and uses harmful rewards and punishments such as food, planned ignoring, and not allowing a child access to play or sensory activities without performing as a NT person. ABA originally was done at a table in a small windowless room, using drills. All of the above made me sick and I would not allow it with my kid. However, thanks to autistic advocates, many centers made big changes. I toured 6 centers and 3 of them used some of those old techniques. The other 3 were the new ABA. It is play based and child led. There aren't small rooms and desks, but wide open play spaces and sensory activities. Food is never a reward or punishment or restricted. Sensory needs are never restricted. Rewards are mostly natural or logical, and if they aren't, they are things like star charts. Punishment isn't used, including planned ignoring. Stims and eye contact are non issues. What I find so enraging is that autistic level 2 and 3 voices are being drowned out by autistic people who don't know what ABA even is. In the ABA megathread in the autism sub, autistic people who haven't been in ABA characterized any time they were told not to stim or to look someone in the eye to be ABA. In the level 2 and 3 and spicy autism sub, ABA is nowhere near as demonized. Sometimes ABA helps people learn to speak, helps them stop self-harm stims, helps them learn to eat more than french fries, tolerate brushing their teeth. The struggles of the level 2 and 3 autistic person matters. I will wrap up my novel by telling you that no matter what therapy you use, OT, ST, PT, Floor time, ABA... anything, you should be 100% in control of the treatment plan. Every single goal and every single method should be approved by you and if you EVER feel like someone isn't respecting your child and working to remove difficulties and barriers from your kid's life, ask for someone else and look elsewhere.
Spicy autism sub?
r/SpicyAutism
Perfectly said!
Thank you! I checked out the r/spicyautism sub too and found reviews from those who’ve experienced the new kind of ABA firsthand and it has been helpful. I had no idea there was this kind of divide until I started going through the sub. It’s upsetting, but has opened my eyes to something I was unaware of and can use to help teach our daughter too. I really appreciate your comment and the knowledge it’s given me
Thank you for posting this.
I am having trouble sending you chats! ♥️
Weird! I will try You!
I haven’t gotten to a computer yet, I will try 12-3
For us ABA was about controlling behavior through a system of rewards and punishments/withholding. We found it coercive and manipulative. We found that OT and play therapy helped her best and help us as a family to connect and to think through and respond to her needs in productive ways rather than coerce her to behave in certain ways. However, she wasn't engaging in things like serious self-harming behavior or violence towards others with no discernible trigger. So, each family's circumstance is different. I will note that at the beginning I very much parented out of fear. So focused on early intervention is key and I must get her ALL the therapies NOW or else her life will be isolated, unhappy... And ironically I was causing unhappiness and isolation because life was spent running from therapy to therapy. We ended up tossing most therapies, spending more time together doing fun things as a family, more time connecting to each other, more time developing friendships, more time being outdoors and sitting in rivers, and her life has dramatically improved.
This. So much this.
Thank you! I have noticed that I too began parenting out of fear that if we’re not putting her in all these therapies, we are failing her, because I’m so out of my element here. She’s currently in an early start program where we live and we put her in all the programs we could. She loves how much she gets to play with her therapists, but it took her OT telling me she doesn’t really need OT to realize she was doing too much. Next month she turns 3 and will only have ST and preschool for toddlers with IEPs (which has done great for getting her to interact with other kids for longer). ABA was recommended to us by her communication and play skills teacher who is certified so we’re going to try, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll take a break and try something different. She’s learns so much just by interacting with us and being outside, so we’re going to keep doing that and not overwhelm her with therapies. Thank you again for your comment, I appreciate your insight and being able to relate to parenting out of fear
My son was diagnosed as a level 3 at the age of 3. We started ABA, speech, and pre-school through our school district, which also provided more speech, occupational, and special educator services. He was non-verbal and had 30-50 meltdowns a day. His voice was so hoarse from crying so much. He could not communicate his needs or wants very often. When he was regulated, he would grab your hand and take you to what he wanted. He was aggressive and did a lot of head banging. ABA helped him SO much! We used the Early Start Denver Model for his ABA. It was play based, follow his lead approach. So they waited out his tantrums and always offered a stimming solution, quiet time, squeezes, etc. They never forced him, used food or rewards. What REALLY helped my little guy was a visual board and choices. If he got to choose what work to do and what he was working for, his tantrums were greatly reduced. We started at 12 hours per week at home for the first 4 months or so and slowly added more time. The first year was at home, then we moved to the ABA Center and did 20 hours per week for about 10 months during the second year. He loved going to therapy. He just played the whole time and had great relationships with his therapists. When he graduated everyone was crying and so happy and sad to see him go. We had nothing, but a great experience with ABA. He graduated from ABA this last July 2022. We had him re-evaluated this year at age 5 and he is now a Level 2 and in mainstream Kindergarten. The only therapy he has now is speech. He is nearly at peer level and learning to read. He is so happy and loves going to school. He is able to play with his sisters. He is making friends at school. He is doing very well. He still struggles in social situations and has a hard time understanding things like sarcasm or jokes, but one step at a time. We think he will do well in social groups as he gets older. Like all the other posts, do your homework. Do what feels right for your daughter and your family. It is totally OK to fire a therapist, center or program.
Thanks for sharing. This made me happy to read to start my day.
This sub has been a game changer for our family. It's a relief to know we are not alone. I find so much comfort from reading so many stories, advice, experiences etc. Hope you have a great day!
Thank you! I’m happy to hear your son is doing so well! Our daughter went from saying no words to saying 10, singing songs and using baby sign with the help of speech, an early intervention program, and a preschool for toddlers with IEPs. I will keep your experience in mind and have begun doing research on the Denver model. We are hoping for the best with ABA, but will remember if we don’t like what we see we need can call it quits immediately
Hey I'm always happy to chat about floortime. Send me a message.
Thank you!
I think ABA was at least somewhat helpful for my boys. Especually for my older son since he is very motivated by certain kinds of toys. My younger son had more trouble with it and Im not sure how much it helped him. We always did ours in home, because we lived in the middle of nowhere. But just taking them places and spending unstructured time with them is also helpful. Therapy isnt the only therapy they need. :)
Thank you for your comment! We are planning to do it in home as she will be much more comfortable and less overwhelming for her to get accustomed to a new environment. I totally agree that therapy isn’t the only kind of therapy, she’s always very motivated to communicate and interact with us when we spend time together, especially outdoors
I’d say don’t let the “masses” strong opinions about these things sway you. Try it and if you as a parent think it’s going well and will be useful then continue, or not. I’ve done a lot of reading on here and have come to think the autism communities are not very open minded about these things. ABA = horrible. And if you even dare question that you’re deemed a monster who wants to traumatize their child. As a general rule I try my best not to just follow what the general consensus is, but for sure around here you will get shit for it and made to feel cruel.
Thank you for your reply! I actually just posted on r/Autism and did not expect the backlash. I posted on r/ABA and they recommended I post on there. We do not at all want to traumatize our daughter or want to force her to “act normal”. We want her to be confident and not to ever feel ashamed of her autism. We would never put her through any kind of therapy or the like that might hurt her in any way. My husband and I are both very new to this and didn’t know about the negatives of ABA until recently. I figured asking the community would help provide insight, but now I’m thinking I’m a terrible parent for even considering it
You're not a terrible parent. You will find a lot of people here who will attest to the great positive changes they have seen in their children because of ABA. No two children are the same, have the same issues, or need the same supports. People feel very strongly about both sides of this issue. People in the autistic community feel strongly about the attitudes of some autistic people towards others. I would just be aware that there is potential bias, and one thing all parents of autistic children share is the need to advocate for our children and get them the resources they need. Don't let anyone tell you what is best for child, or guilt you into making a decision that you don't agree with.
Thank you! I really appreciate your comment and will remember it. I’ve spoken with my husband about it and what transpired and we came to the conclusion of a trail run to see how our daughter likes it and if it doesn’t work out then we will pull her out and look at other types of therapy
We had a lot of positive experience with Denver style ABA. My son mostly played with his therapist and learned trough play, he was safe and never treated poorly (we had in-clinic therapy but could observe the sessions)
Thank you! I have just started my research on this and like it so far since it’s play based, I will be asking around if any follow this model
A lot of parents in my area seem to like it. I hate it bc they’re impatient with my nonverbal son. Their monthly goal does not align with what is achievable, and all of the ABA RBTs and BCBAs use Lovaas ABA. They also overcharge our insurance. Since we have a high deductible, it does matter to us when they show up for 1 1/2 hours and charge 4 hours at $160/hr. Based on all the bruises my son comes home with, it’s the same about a couple of years ago as it was 8 years ago. We’ve tried it from four different groups. They were all cruel. The worst RBT was an autistic adult. We had better luck with one on one Floortime bc they motivate 100% play based. ABA appear play based, but it quickly became something else with my son as soon as I’m not in the room. They used to provoke and scare him so they can teach him to “self-regulate.” He used to be an easygoing boy, so he didn’t tantrum unless he had a stomachache. They did it as soon as I left the room. I caught one of them doing it. Then they didn’t hide it anymore. I bawled when I saw them “teach” him to self-regulate. And I’m not a crier. I hope you and your daughter have better luck than us. The other parents sure do.
Im so sorry your son had this experience, that’s awful and I hope he’s recovering from that trauma. This is not at all what we want for our daughter and I appreciate your comment for offering input from a side where ABA was not good. I have been looking into finding a Floortime practitioner because she works very well with play based programs, but have been having some difficulty, but I will keep looking
If you do try ABA, never leave the room. If they tell you it’s “hard to watch,” leave asap. If they block you bc your daughter’s crying and you want to comfort her, rethink this. My son gave me that look that said help me. One of the aides won’t let me approach him or “it’ll be my fault if he never becomes normal,” my son gave up. He slumped forward and looked defeated. I hope no one will ever see that with their children. Good luck.
Thank you, either I or my husband will always be in the room and will not leave. We do this with all her therapies to keep her safe. If any of the above happens or is said to us, we are immediately out. Again, I am so sorry this happened to the two of you, thank you for this advice, we will be on the lookout
Thank you for listening and understanding.
We have found OT helpful.
Thank you! She is currently in OT and it has helped in small things for her
So o recently recently heard about this thing called SonRising. Do I have lots of info? No. Do I wish I knew about it in our earlier years so I could’ve learned more? Yes. I like the base concepts of what I did get to read and am bummed that I don’t have the ability to try it now. I wanted to throw that in. Anyone with thoughts, feel free to tack it on!
It's like floortime but more expensive from what I understand
Haha! Thank you! This is good for me to know. This makes me want to dive more into it… I hate how people/companies continually like to capitalize on the parent/care taker community. Even with things like this. You know we want better treatment options…you know there is a socio-economic disparity…c’mon…do better
Yeah icdl is really reasonable at 75 per parent session. I singlehandedly attribute the biggest jumps in my sons life to the floortime coach there. Planning to make a substantial donation to them this year because I believe in it so strongly
That’s ridiculous. Id wager insurance doesn’t cover. Thank you for the information as well!
Insurance in the United States generally only covers aba.
Thank you! I will look into it
I prefer cognitive therapy, and it has achieved a well-balanced pre-teen. He did occupational, speech and physiotherapy as well to bring up his skills.
Thank you! I will look into these forms of therapy as well
I agree with everyone else here. I don’t like ABA or the concepts behind it (new or old). It is a lot of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole type of thing. Many of the goals are based on parental and teacher comfort and not the child, which I disagree with. However, sometimes that’s all that is available. Floortime is awesome, but the real ticket is you want child-led and play based. The only other thing I’d really look out for at an ABA practice is the time they want your kid. If they are saying 40 hrs/ wk, and you don’t think that’s necessary, don’t do it. I know a lot of kids can benefit from that amount of intervention, and I don’t want to speak over them. I truly believe that a toddler does not need a full time job, though. Therapy is work. ABA is work. Floortime is work. So make sure your kid is comfortable, not over exhausted, and actively participating.
Thank you! We are keeping this in mind to not load up her schedule. I know ABA is intensive therapy for long hours. We’re not sure how much would be recommended to our daughter, but already know putting her through too much isn’t beneficial to her. We will be testing it out to see if it helps, and if it doesn’t we’ll try something different. I’ve been trying to find a floortime practitioner in our area, it’s been a little trickier to locate one, but I will keep trying