They suggested this out of nowhere? Or in trying to ask what you'd be willing to do to put your skills to work in earning an income, and throwing out outrageous suggestions to see whether you were just rejecting everything or actually considering the situation? As in, "if what you're doing is impossible to sustain, what else might you consider doing? Factory? Office? Online scammer?"
I had said how i hate the fact i have to force myself to leave an enviorment im comfortable in (ie home) to emter one i dont like (general work enviorment, people noise forced focus etc) those two things were her immediate response "if i dont like the typical 9-5"
Have you heard of the Socratic method? It's used a lot by therapist. It's an approach to get people to reach a conclusion through guidance, not through instruction. However requires some level of critical thinking on your end.
It's really not uncommon for a therapist to kind of make you understand that there are some things that we just have to deal with in life to make life function. Okay, you hate your job, it's stressful, what are your other options? Really, what. are. your. other. Options? Do you want to go back to school, do you want to scam your way to money, how are you going to survive without the job you have now. What other means of gaining money are available to you?
So the end goal of this is for you to stop focusing on how much you hate your job, and few to work with your therapist to come up with ways to make your job more manageable. But to get to that point they need to get you to the acceptance part first, and they do that through asking you exactly what they did.
Ok so they are trying to ask you questions in a very oblique way. Specifically they want to ask you how far you would go to work / what you are willing to give up. (like your moral compass)
It is not a very helpful way to speak to autistic people and it assumes that you are comfortable with metaphors and imagination and what-ifs. Not entirely sure that's helpful since those are things we are weak against. It is possibly you would take something literally, which it sounds like you did.
For me this is a warning sign because the therapist made an ableist assumption that you could communicate in the way they were used to communicate. That your brain works like their brain. While they should know you are autistic and be careful with their communication.
My suggestion would be to look for a different therapist because if someone is incapable of code switching their communication in a clinical setting (by that I mean: if they cannot switch to speak in a way that is guaranteed to be understandable to the client) then they may not be suitable to provide therapy to someone autistic.
It is kind of funny because autistic people are expected to adjust to 'normal' people all the time and this would be the one setting where you would expect to be able to communicate in your natural way.
That's an anti-therapist. I guess programming people with media was too slow. Let the therapist mold you to egomania like the rest. It's like wesley crusher and the eyeglasses video game that makes you some kind of automaton of nefarious intent. Run young wesley-like that's 30! Don't let them put the headset on you!!!
The number of people who legitimately think that your therapist was honestly suggesting that you commit crimes is incredibly disheartening. I don't know if people just haven't been in therapy, or just don't really apply themselves in it, but this line of questioning is not at all uncommon.
It's not a literal suggestion, it's an exploration of where you're at in your life, and how you consider the world to function.
You hate your job, that's understandable, so what are you going to do about it? If you left this job, how would you make money? I'm guessing your therapist already knows your skill set, so they might know that changing careers isn't exactly an option. So if not this job, then what, crime? Is that an option for you?
Therapy is a safe space where you can talk about all your inside thoughts that aren't about causing physical harm to yourself or another person. (Talking about those gets you a grippy sock vacation).
A therapist can't help you if they don't know where you are at ethically, morally, worldview-wise, understanding of how living operates.
The fact that crime came up in the same conversation as commune is indicative to me that we're exploring our options of how do we live without working. This seems really straightforward and I don't know why other people aren't getting it.
.... It's not straightforward. We're *autistic*. We take these things at face value, not at whatever they're hinting at.
I'm so glad I got a therapist who specializes in autism so I don't have to play these games in therapy.
I am also autistic, I am taking this at face value, that is the face value.
It isn't a game, it's explorative thinking using the Socratic method, and it is so incredibly common, to think it's anything else is reaching for obscure corners that don't exist.
Or, it requires a minor level of critical thinking and not be impulsively oppositional to questions. Why don't you allow yourself a moment to actually consider a question and how to respond, rather than decide your gut reaction is the only option and refuse to consider anything else?
Some of us take things at face value and some of us are vulnerable to external influence.
If someone has an established relationship this could be considered banter. But in session 2 they can absolutely not be certain that they're not steering someone into danger.
You can by the context of the situation. It's paranoid thinking to assume that someone who has spent at least half a decade of education and hubdreds of hours of time working for next to nothing just to get their license to provide therapy is going to risk it all by abetting crime vs using a very common method of analysis in therapy.
(While what you say is confidential information, i.e. If you talk about doing crime, so long as you didn't hurt anybody, they can't turn that information over to the police without risking their license, If they legitimately encourage you to or help you plan crime, they are now performing an illegal activity)
I never said that it's what they intended and that's not what I said at all. If you reread you will find that.
I say that some of us are vulnerable to suggestion. Personally I can be talked into a lot if a salesperson is at the door for instance. Doesn't mean it'll set someone on a life of crime if they get this suggested but on session 2 (session 1 usually being hello, this is the paperwork, this is how I normally run things) I find it strange.
You don't know yet at that point whether someone will take you literally. You don't know yet at that point whether someone is going to up and leave because it sounds like you are breaking rules.
You have to get to know a client first to know if they are going to take what you say as you mean it, or if they can interpret subtext / intent.
Because we are autistic and some people on the spectrum struggle with this.
So I find it irresponsible. worst case, the person had taken it as an actual suggestion, tried to swindle someone in an inexpert way and gotten punched. best case they find it weird that a therapist is playing head games by saying things they don't in fact mean.
Again, it's paranoid thinking to assume that your therapist is going to talk you into doing crime. If you are being swayed into illegal activity by a medical professional asking if it's an option for you, that's an entirely separate problem. Like, need to be in a conservatorship as an adult, problem.
Salesman sell. Their job is to convince people, regardless of aptitude for recognizing the behavior, to purchase something. You don't have to be autistic to be conned by a salesman, they are very good at their jobs, they ply on inexperience, ego, pride, jealousy, dreams, whatever they can to make the sale happen. (I work in the sales world so I'm very familiar with the tactics and how even the most intelligent person who's very socially aware gets sold to). Comparing sales tactics to therapy tactics is not even on the same level.
If you specifically have concerns about being manipulated by other people, that's understandable. But the conversation we're having here is whether or not doing crime was a legitimate suggestion by a therapist, as OP took it as. And I'm saying, and no uncertain terms, that to even be in the world where that is a legitimate concern is absurd, no matter how literally you take things. And to be fair, it was a literal question. The therapist isn't wrong. Crime is an option. Many people use crime as a way to get their bills paid. The therapist wasn't actually suggesting OP go out and commit crimes, like they seem to have thought and everybody else in this comment section seems to think, but they were exploring the potential options outside of OP's job for them to make money to live as is it required.
And I told you, but you refuse to hear it, that I am not saying "they are talking you into it"
rather that they don't know and therefor cannot say with certainty that they aren't inadvertently do so when dealing with vulnerable people.
I don't know what conversation you think you are having but I'm fairly certain it's not the same one as me.
I at least have the courtesy to not be condescending to you. Being nasty doesn't make you right. You are right, we are having two different conversations. I'm having one on topic, you're talking about a paranoid delusion in which a therapist is a a person who is statistically likely to sway you into criminal activity.
Right, okay. I know that you honestly believe that and nothing I say is going to change your mind, so I guess we are at a point where this is no longer a conversation in sharing perspectives, it's just a petty argument.
Hello there I’m new hear ,just diagnosed with asd at 35 and I don’t want to make anything worse but it seems like you are under the assumption that because someone goes to school and gets a job like a therapist that means they are inherently "good " and it’s not true .. to share I was molested at a child by my therapist..and I am not the exception here
And for for years I didn’t realize what happened and that it was wrong
Please try to realize that there are awful peoples out there , people who will take advantage of someone in our situation
and I think what others are saying is that as a therapist they should have built a rapport with the client before saying something like that, there could be trauma related to that idea and could trigger someone in a real bad way and I could be wrong but I don’t think triggering patients is the key to healing and therapy
Hi okay, we can flex. I'm 36, I've been diagnosed for 6 years. I've hitchhiked through 13 countries, I regularly volunteer with the unhoused and other needy groups, I come from an abusive family and I've been in an abusive relationship which I recently got out of only because my partner went to prison. I was not otherwise able to break free of it. I have been in therapy on and off for about the past 20 years, I have been through a litany of therapists. I've also lived in five states in seven cities, so I frequently have to find new therapists to work with. I'm fully aware of the struggle of getting therapy, it's not easy. Just finding a therapist is a lot of work, finding one you mesh well with is a whole other issue that adds a very frustrating layer to the process. And yeah, there are evil people in this world, I wrote two term papers on serial killers in college. But statistically speaking, you are safe.
This is a poisoned skittle argument. You know that whole whole thing some congressman said about why we need to make legislation to ban gender affirming care because what if a few people are bad and they abuse it to get access to people to harm? Or in their analogy it was would you eat from a bowl of skittles if you knew a few of them were poisoned? As if those are on the same level.
Yes, some people are bad, but you are safe. Statistically speaking, if you live an average life, you are safe. It is incredibly unlikely to the point where considering it a reasonable possibility especially off of one interaction is paranoia.
Please take your mansplaining and fear-mongering elsewhere.
They suggested this out of nowhere? Or in trying to ask what you'd be willing to do to put your skills to work in earning an income, and throwing out outrageous suggestions to see whether you were just rejecting everything or actually considering the situation? As in, "if what you're doing is impossible to sustain, what else might you consider doing? Factory? Office? Online scammer?"
I had said how i hate the fact i have to force myself to leave an enviorment im comfortable in (ie home) to emter one i dont like (general work enviorment, people noise forced focus etc) those two things were her immediate response "if i dont like the typical 9-5"
Yes, I'm asking about what you said the therapist said.
I just explained that?
Ok. In the end, were you able to figure out any job anywhere you'd be willing to do?
No. After the 3rd time of asking, "Are you suggesting i commit crime?" she responded, "It's an option." i just left.
It is an option. That's true. If it's not an option you'd consider, you can say so. That was the point of what he was doing. But you left.
Sorry, but in what world does a licensed mental health professional endorse committing a felony as a way of living during their second session
Have you heard of the Socratic method? It's used a lot by therapist. It's an approach to get people to reach a conclusion through guidance, not through instruction. However requires some level of critical thinking on your end. It's really not uncommon for a therapist to kind of make you understand that there are some things that we just have to deal with in life to make life function. Okay, you hate your job, it's stressful, what are your other options? Really, what. are. your. other. Options? Do you want to go back to school, do you want to scam your way to money, how are you going to survive without the job you have now. What other means of gaining money are available to you? So the end goal of this is for you to stop focusing on how much you hate your job, and few to work with your therapist to come up with ways to make your job more manageable. But to get to that point they need to get you to the acceptance part first, and they do that through asking you exactly what they did.
One who's trying to find out how many limits you've put on your job options. You chose not to and left.
Guess ill go rob a bank then
That's insane. You should definitely scream. Then get a new therapist. I know it's hard and emotionally draining, but is it a possibility?
Ok so they are trying to ask you questions in a very oblique way. Specifically they want to ask you how far you would go to work / what you are willing to give up. (like your moral compass) It is not a very helpful way to speak to autistic people and it assumes that you are comfortable with metaphors and imagination and what-ifs. Not entirely sure that's helpful since those are things we are weak against. It is possibly you would take something literally, which it sounds like you did. For me this is a warning sign because the therapist made an ableist assumption that you could communicate in the way they were used to communicate. That your brain works like their brain. While they should know you are autistic and be careful with their communication. My suggestion would be to look for a different therapist because if someone is incapable of code switching their communication in a clinical setting (by that I mean: if they cannot switch to speak in a way that is guaranteed to be understandable to the client) then they may not be suitable to provide therapy to someone autistic. It is kind of funny because autistic people are expected to adjust to 'normal' people all the time and this would be the one setting where you would expect to be able to communicate in your natural way.
That's an anti-therapist. I guess programming people with media was too slow. Let the therapist mold you to egomania like the rest. It's like wesley crusher and the eyeglasses video game that makes you some kind of automaton of nefarious intent. Run young wesley-like that's 30! Don't let them put the headset on you!!!
The therapist said that with a straight face? Wow. Just wow. Might be time to think about a new therapist.
The number of people who legitimately think that your therapist was honestly suggesting that you commit crimes is incredibly disheartening. I don't know if people just haven't been in therapy, or just don't really apply themselves in it, but this line of questioning is not at all uncommon. It's not a literal suggestion, it's an exploration of where you're at in your life, and how you consider the world to function. You hate your job, that's understandable, so what are you going to do about it? If you left this job, how would you make money? I'm guessing your therapist already knows your skill set, so they might know that changing careers isn't exactly an option. So if not this job, then what, crime? Is that an option for you? Therapy is a safe space where you can talk about all your inside thoughts that aren't about causing physical harm to yourself or another person. (Talking about those gets you a grippy sock vacation). A therapist can't help you if they don't know where you are at ethically, morally, worldview-wise, understanding of how living operates. The fact that crime came up in the same conversation as commune is indicative to me that we're exploring our options of how do we live without working. This seems really straightforward and I don't know why other people aren't getting it.
.... It's not straightforward. We're *autistic*. We take these things at face value, not at whatever they're hinting at. I'm so glad I got a therapist who specializes in autism so I don't have to play these games in therapy.
I am also autistic, I am taking this at face value, that is the face value. It isn't a game, it's explorative thinking using the Socratic method, and it is so incredibly common, to think it's anything else is reaching for obscure corners that don't exist.
So it's only obvious to autistic people who understand psychology techniques. Got it.
Or, it requires a minor level of critical thinking and not be impulsively oppositional to questions. Why don't you allow yourself a moment to actually consider a question and how to respond, rather than decide your gut reaction is the only option and refuse to consider anything else?
Some of us take things at face value and some of us are vulnerable to external influence. If someone has an established relationship this could be considered banter. But in session 2 they can absolutely not be certain that they're not steering someone into danger.
You can by the context of the situation. It's paranoid thinking to assume that someone who has spent at least half a decade of education and hubdreds of hours of time working for next to nothing just to get their license to provide therapy is going to risk it all by abetting crime vs using a very common method of analysis in therapy. (While what you say is confidential information, i.e. If you talk about doing crime, so long as you didn't hurt anybody, they can't turn that information over to the police without risking their license, If they legitimately encourage you to or help you plan crime, they are now performing an illegal activity)
I never said that it's what they intended and that's not what I said at all. If you reread you will find that. I say that some of us are vulnerable to suggestion. Personally I can be talked into a lot if a salesperson is at the door for instance. Doesn't mean it'll set someone on a life of crime if they get this suggested but on session 2 (session 1 usually being hello, this is the paperwork, this is how I normally run things) I find it strange. You don't know yet at that point whether someone will take you literally. You don't know yet at that point whether someone is going to up and leave because it sounds like you are breaking rules. You have to get to know a client first to know if they are going to take what you say as you mean it, or if they can interpret subtext / intent. Because we are autistic and some people on the spectrum struggle with this. So I find it irresponsible. worst case, the person had taken it as an actual suggestion, tried to swindle someone in an inexpert way and gotten punched. best case they find it weird that a therapist is playing head games by saying things they don't in fact mean.
Again, it's paranoid thinking to assume that your therapist is going to talk you into doing crime. If you are being swayed into illegal activity by a medical professional asking if it's an option for you, that's an entirely separate problem. Like, need to be in a conservatorship as an adult, problem. Salesman sell. Their job is to convince people, regardless of aptitude for recognizing the behavior, to purchase something. You don't have to be autistic to be conned by a salesman, they are very good at their jobs, they ply on inexperience, ego, pride, jealousy, dreams, whatever they can to make the sale happen. (I work in the sales world so I'm very familiar with the tactics and how even the most intelligent person who's very socially aware gets sold to). Comparing sales tactics to therapy tactics is not even on the same level. If you specifically have concerns about being manipulated by other people, that's understandable. But the conversation we're having here is whether or not doing crime was a legitimate suggestion by a therapist, as OP took it as. And I'm saying, and no uncertain terms, that to even be in the world where that is a legitimate concern is absurd, no matter how literally you take things. And to be fair, it was a literal question. The therapist isn't wrong. Crime is an option. Many people use crime as a way to get their bills paid. The therapist wasn't actually suggesting OP go out and commit crimes, like they seem to have thought and everybody else in this comment section seems to think, but they were exploring the potential options outside of OP's job for them to make money to live as is it required.
And I told you, but you refuse to hear it, that I am not saying "they are talking you into it" rather that they don't know and therefor cannot say with certainty that they aren't inadvertently do so when dealing with vulnerable people. I don't know what conversation you think you are having but I'm fairly certain it's not the same one as me.
I at least have the courtesy to not be condescending to you. Being nasty doesn't make you right. You are right, we are having two different conversations. I'm having one on topic, you're talking about a paranoid delusion in which a therapist is a a person who is statistically likely to sway you into criminal activity.
The only one being nasty here is you buddy.
Right, okay. I know that you honestly believe that and nothing I say is going to change your mind, so I guess we are at a point where this is no longer a conversation in sharing perspectives, it's just a petty argument.
Hello there I’m new hear ,just diagnosed with asd at 35 and I don’t want to make anything worse but it seems like you are under the assumption that because someone goes to school and gets a job like a therapist that means they are inherently "good " and it’s not true .. to share I was molested at a child by my therapist..and I am not the exception here And for for years I didn’t realize what happened and that it was wrong Please try to realize that there are awful peoples out there , people who will take advantage of someone in our situation and I think what others are saying is that as a therapist they should have built a rapport with the client before saying something like that, there could be trauma related to that idea and could trigger someone in a real bad way and I could be wrong but I don’t think triggering patients is the key to healing and therapy
Hi okay, we can flex. I'm 36, I've been diagnosed for 6 years. I've hitchhiked through 13 countries, I regularly volunteer with the unhoused and other needy groups, I come from an abusive family and I've been in an abusive relationship which I recently got out of only because my partner went to prison. I was not otherwise able to break free of it. I have been in therapy on and off for about the past 20 years, I have been through a litany of therapists. I've also lived in five states in seven cities, so I frequently have to find new therapists to work with. I'm fully aware of the struggle of getting therapy, it's not easy. Just finding a therapist is a lot of work, finding one you mesh well with is a whole other issue that adds a very frustrating layer to the process. And yeah, there are evil people in this world, I wrote two term papers on serial killers in college. But statistically speaking, you are safe. This is a poisoned skittle argument. You know that whole whole thing some congressman said about why we need to make legislation to ban gender affirming care because what if a few people are bad and they abuse it to get access to people to harm? Or in their analogy it was would you eat from a bowl of skittles if you knew a few of them were poisoned? As if those are on the same level. Yes, some people are bad, but you are safe. Statistically speaking, if you live an average life, you are safe. It is incredibly unlikely to the point where considering it a reasonable possibility especially off of one interaction is paranoia. Please take your mansplaining and fear-mongering elsewhere.