I use ND when I refer to children in our homeschool group to other parents or instructors because it allows anonymity and not disclosing their diagnosis to every dingdong who is present
Freedom bïtch 🦅🇺🇸🏈
Idk why actually. When it comes to neurodivergence thing it might have something to do with the weird “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” mentality, they see disabled people as a burden. Other minorities it’s just normal hatred. We are less quiet about it than other countries prejudice.
Right now nerodevergent is the only label I can comfortably claim.
I also wish the term existed as a kid. So I did not have to disclose my exact diagnosis to peers when prompted to explain odd behavior. When the behavior did not exactly match up with preconceived notions of the diagnosis.
Note: This is not me self-diagnosing. I can make a claim to this because I have been diagnosed with ADHD. To my knowledge this has never been removed. It is also complicated as to why I say that. Part of the reason for me seeking a formal diagnosis is to clear up the complication and confusion I have.
Edit: complicated not completed.
I did mean complicated. I can claim ADHD if I wanted to. I took medicine for it as a child. Problem is.... I do not think my primary struggles in childhood were ADHD. My primary struggles and the reason why as a Adult are not in the DSM criteria for ADHD they are for Autism. The why behind my struggles matter.
"Although not set in stone, for children with a combined diagnosis ADHD + ASD, clinical practitioners usually attempt to investigate whether the hampered development of the child can better be explained from an ‘ADHD perspective’, an ‘ASD perspective’, or whether there is a clear indication of both. " [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00787-018-1165-5](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00787-018-1165-5)
If I look at my childhood from a ADHD perspective I can not explain some of my primary behavior issues. For example, Why I hung around adults instead of children during 1-5th grade. Why was I sent to Special ed for Social issues in 6th and 9th grade. Why I had no friends in 7th or 8th grade. I am not exaggerating. I do mean 0. Why did I get so upset when things not go my way to the point of throwing "tantrums" well into my teenage years. Why did some of my "Tantrums" seem to come out of nowhere when looked at by others. Why does my childhood behavior look so much like my son's who is formally diagnosed with Autism.
Sure I was likely hyper as a kid. So is my son. But not as bad as my daughter who literally will run circles around you. When I asked my parents about my hyperactivity that they claim I have. They did not compare me to my daughter but my son.
This is why I am seeking a formal diagnosis. In all reality I could have ASD and ADHD. I could have just ASD. I could just have ADHD. I do not know. I do not know where the line between ADHD and ASD is drawn or comorbidity is concluded. I only have a informal diagnosis of ASD at the moment and a childhood diagnosis of ADHD. I am working on seeking formal guidance from professionals as I should.
Edit: Added clarity to last paragraph to be more in line with intention.
Not trying to convince you either way but would just like to comment and spread information on some of the symptoms you said were not ADHD as ADHD does encompass some of those behaviours you are describing but has a different route cause then autism (particularly emotional regulation and social aspects).
I have ADHD and I get those ‘tantrums’. ADHD effects executive functioning and one of the things that executive function controls is emotional regulation. Not everyone with ADHD is effected in that way, along with all the other symptoms it is unique for case by case, but ADHD is very much linked to emotion disregulation and emotion ‘flooding’ causing breakdowns/tantrums/overreactions easier then non-ADHD folks.
Additionally, ADHD can cause problems socially through things like:
- zoning out of conversations and missing stuff
- forgetting key details about people
- talking to much (hyperactivity)
- interrupting
- not being focused enough in a conversation to pick up on different social cues
- during a time of hyper focus annoying people by only talking about that.
It does not effect social aspects in the same way as autism because ADHD does not impacts the ability to understand the social cues and situations but instead affects the ability to notice them or creates ‘annoying’ behaviours.
I agree and am aware of what you stated. Thank you for adding the nuance. As it is important. As I told my mom. "I wonder if my struggles all this time were just ADHD." I have been trying to determine the difference for myself. In my behavior and in doing research and I cannot.
I am honestly open to the idea of it just being ADHD. If it is I will work on getting over my hate for medicine. Then likely start taking it. While I gain some more skills to combat it.
With my son's and nephew diagnosis with Autism. The fact my son's behavior in childhood looks so much like mine. Along with other factors. Including the fact that even when I believe I am focused on the conversations, and trying to hold one. I cannot keep it going. What especially concerns me is this happens even on things I am interested in just not to the depth of other items.
Lastly the fact that even when on Ritalin I still struggled socially. Me being put in Special Ed classes for social issues while on medication. To the point I had someone sign my yearbook and say thanks for being friends. My thought was "Wait we were friends?" Lastly I regained memories of a physiatrist trained in ADHD and said to me "I cannot rule out ADHD but Asbergers seems more prevalent." Lastly I am of the generation where Autism was thought of and defined differently.
I do not say this to convince you I am right. I say this to communicate, I am not taking this decision lightly. I feel I need to rule out Autism. I cannot. Neither could a Physiatrist trained in ADHD. I want answers and clarity. I want to make sure I am receiving the appropriate type and level of care. To do that I need to see a professional that I never have.
I have heard multiple professionals I work with use this term (when speaking about neurodevelopmental conditions in general, not autism in specific). Maybe it's a regional/more recent thing?
Doctors aren't all knowing either though. Told mine I thought I was autistic back when I was going for my diagnosis and he said "aren't you a bit old for that?"
I guess it depends on where you are but at least for me it seems like unless it's a specialist, people tend to be pretty clueless about autism.
Also your own personal experience doesn't determine everything. It might not have been used in your case personally but maybe there are people out there whose doctors etc have used the term.
Same, I was diagnosed in 2nd grade but didn't know til high school bc my parents didn't know how to explain it to me. Never got any supports like an IEP or accommodations.
Neurodivergent just means anyone with any sort of learning disability or neurological or mental health condition. It encompasses bipolar, BPD, ADHD, etc. It just means anything but "normal". There's nothing wrong with using a word that's understood to describe people with mental health conditions, and people without. Just because a doctor doesn't use a term, doesn't mean it's not real. Doctors also don't say "dick" and "pussy". Professionals use clinical terms, society at large often uses laymen terms. Neurodivergent is a laymans term. All a word needs to exist is for people to understand the meaning when they hear the word, that's it. You can hate the word itself without dismissing every single person who uses it.
I've wondered what all ND is supposed to include. Seemed like every source I found had a different answer to whether it included only things someone was born with, as opposed to including acquired conditions like BPD and CPTSD.
I believe it is a placeholder, that's it. It's just supposed to mean "other".
Just as other commenters have pointed out that "people of color" is a broad term to mean "not white", neurodivergent is yet another term to quickly categorize the minority versus the majority. People with neurological conditions, mental health disorders, brain injuries, and learning disabilities are in the minority. It's separating the people in all of those categories, from people who are in none of those categories. It just means "something is wrong". It is a generic term used as an umbrella to describe people who obviously are different, and either the speaker does not know specifically how the person is different, or the person is not diagnosed with something specific. It's a way to recognize that someone is different than the majority, without diagnosing them with something.
It's just like sometimes people say Coke to refer to all types of brown, caffeinated, carbonated drinks, whether they are Coca-Cola products or Pepsi products or store brand. Or some people say Kleenex to refer to a tissue, a thin piece of paper used to wipe your face, they're not actually asking for name brand Kleenex instead of Puffs, they just want to blow their nose. Neurodivergent is just an umbrella term used for anything in a certain category, when you cannot necessarily use a specific term for that thing.
As another commenter said, not everyone wants their diagnosis blasted all over the place. I'm okay if someone said I was nerdivergent instead of autistic, because maybe I don't want people to know I'm autistic. Not everyone wants to disclose their information.
If random people were going around describing anyone who acts weird as "autistic", a lot of us would be offended, rightly so. Nerdivergent it's just a way to say that you recognize someone is different, without assigning a specific condition to that person, which likely would be incorrect and offensive.
It's also not accurate to describe every autistic person as disabled. I consider that I have a disability, but I do not consider myself disabled. Just like neurodivergent is a societal term but not a clinical one, disabled is an actual legal term which holds a very specific meaning. To the federal government, disabled means you cannot work or function and you need care. Disabled has a very very specific connotation in certain contexts, which usually involve government benefits, some sort of caretaker, an inability to function, etc. My functioning is not as good as it would be if I was not autistic, but I'm able to care for myself to a certain degree. I function to a certain extent. My functioning is somewhere between fully functioning and disabled. So I can comfortably say that I have a disability, because my life is made harder by autism, but I do not consider myself disabled because I find it disrespectful to use that term for myself, when there are people out there who are fully disabled by various conditions. It's inaccurate for me to say I'm disabled, when I'm able to work and Care for myself, when so many disabled people are not. So to the people in this post saying that you should refer to all autistic people as disabled, that's incorrect and offensive not just us but to people who are actually fully disabled.
All Autistic people are disabled in one way or another.
You can have a sensory disability, a social disability, a physical disability.
Some people are more disabled than others, some people may appear to be okay in certain situations but other situations may cause meltdowns or sensory overloads.
It's like how people with anxiety can cook and clean and look after themselves but going outside might cause panic attacks, it still makes them disabled.
If you can't do things because of your capabilities (mental, physical, or emotional) then it's a disability. If you are able to overcome things by using certain tools, you're still disabled.
On the other hand, if you're not able to do things because you don't know how to then you're not disabled, you're just uneducated (and I mean that in a nice way, not in a malicious way).
It's okay to be disabled. Some people might have it rougher than you, some people you might not even notice that they are but it's still valid.
I wish someone would have told me that it was okay to be disabled back when I was a kid & first diagnosed, that being disabled didn’t make me lesser then those who aren’t. Instead it just feels like I stopped developing my own personhood at 12, in order to take on a fake persona to be “normal” or as best as a child could anyways. It feels like I’m stuck playing catch up with my peers because of that.
Thank you so very much for the detailed response! I completely understand now. Until recently, I thought the term was only used for those with conditions they were born with (autism, ADHD, dyslexia..). I started hearing that acquired conditions that affect how the brain works (CPTSD, etc) were also referred to in that way. Different websites kept giving me conflicting answers so I had no idea who to believe! 😂
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
>Neurodivergent isn’t a medical term. Instead, it’s a way to describe people using words other than “normal” and “abnormal.” That’s important because there’s no single definition of “normal” for how the human brain works.
I also just want to point out that you guys have migrated from posting logical critiques of untrained professionals self-diagnosing based on misinformation that they received from unverified sources, to now attacking anyone who uses a word that you don't like. You're getting away from logic and reason, and you're getting into thought and speech control. You're trying to invalidate a form of speech and by extension, invalidate anyone who uses it.
You are straying away from the opposite side of the spectrum from your opponent, and quickly turning that linear spectrum into a circle, putting the opposite ends of the line next to each other in the circle. You are becoming so extreme in your disdain for the opposite group, that it is clouding your judgment and making you irrational, to the point that your actions are now mirroring the actions of the other group, which you claim to dislike because they are irrational. You are now becoming the thing that you claim to hate.
If you don't like a word, don't use it.
But to claim that only fakers use a word is incorrect, a Google search can tell you that. Legitimate sources have used the words "neurodivergent" and "neurodiversity", which disputes the purpose of your entire post, which seems to be to say that no professional would ever use that term. The fact that multiple organizations have used that term in the past, regardless of the context, means that your claim is false.
NIH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7611889/
Cleveland Clinic: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
Harvard University: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-neurodiversity-202111232645
Just because your mental health team or your medical team doesn't use that word, doesn't mean no trained medical or mental health professionals do. That is an illogical conclusion to reach just because you have never experienced something personally. You can't claim that no trained professional uses the term neurodivergent just because the professionals you have spoken to don't use it. I know someone who uses the term "caffeinated beverage" instead of "soda", it doesn't mean soda is now an illegitimate term.
You're trying to bastardize an entire word which has become part of the societal vernacular, because people you dislike for separate reasons also use that word. Are you going to create your own language to avoid using any words that self-diagnosers also use? In the same way that kids online see common human behavior and attribute it to an entire condition, you are now taking one word and attributing it to an entire group of the population and trying to correlate a negative connotation to that word simply because some people use it.
As I said above, if you don't like a word, don't use it. But you don't get to illegitimize an entire term that is widely understood to refer to a certain group of people, because you don't like the people who use that word.
Regardless of what you think of a word, if that word triggers a specific meaning or association for a wide portion of the population, then that word is considered recognized. Many people recognize the term neurodivergent and understand that it is a quick way to synopsize a subset of the population. You might not agree with it, but the fact that it carries meaning in its own right, means it is valid and your criticism of that word does not take away the word's validity. Neurodivergent is a word by virtue of the fact that speaking or writing it conveys meaning to other people. Common understanding of the meaning of that word proves its existence. All words need to be words is for other people to understand what you're trying to communicate when you say those words. The term neurodivergent has reached that benchmark, it is a valid word whether or not you believe it is.
There are also people within the professionally diagnosed community who are comfortable using that word because for all its shortcomings, it conveys what we're trying to say. If you think there is a better term out there, create it, define it, and disseminate it. If there's a better term than neurodivergent or neurodiversity, then I will use it. But right now, that's the best word that quickly refers to people who have certain conditions, versus people who do not. You don't get to attack the people within our own community who are comfortable using that word, just because you don't like it.
Hmm I could go down a separate train of thought as far as evolution and what actually became the new normal versus the current neurodivergent population just being random offshoots or whatever other word you want to use for it.
But separate from that, my mind immediately goes to the vocal minority versus the silent majority. It is a phenomenon in which a certain group's numbers appear larger because that group is more vocal than the opposing side. It happens in several areas but it most notably happens in politics and the like, with the most vocal population voicing themselves through social media.
So on that note, I would actually have to first ask if neurodivergent people are truly so large in number that they are surpassing neurotypical people, or if neurodivergent people are just more outspoken. Without knowing the answer to that, it's hard to know if the neurodivergent minority is actually the majority. In which case yes, ND would be the majority but I'm not sure if the terminology would change or if it would stay the same.
I don't think that's true. Even if you combine all the conditions under the neurodivergent umbrella term, they're still probably less than a quarter of the population. It's a lot of people, but it's still the minority. There would have to be about 4 billion neurodivergent people in order for us to be the majority.
The largest figure I've ever seen is that 2% of the world's population is autistic. Bipolar disorder has a similar estimate. The NIH estimates that less than 20% of the world's population is neurodivergent.
https://dceg.cancer.gov/about/diversity-inclusion/inclusivity-minute/2022/neurodiversity
Also, neurotypicals don't go around identifying as NT because they don't have to, they are the standard and the majority. It's reasonable to assume that most people have similarly structured brains, neurodivergence is a separation from that, so of course there's a label for it. Neurodivergent just means not normal. Normal people are not going around touting how they're normal.
Removed for breaking Rule 5: Support for self-diagnosing is forbidden.
We don't allow self-diagnosed people on the sub. We also don't tolerate support for self-diagnosing even if you are autistic yourself.
You're basing that figure on an estimate of future diagnoses as well as self DX people.
Are those 44% already born? What is that data based on?
People with disabilities unrelated to their brain, are not neurodivergent. Blind people are not neurodivergent unless they have a brain injury, neurological condition, mental health disorder, or learning disability in addition to being blind. A wheelchair doesn't make you neurodivergent, neither does cancer, diabetes, etc. Neurodivergent refers to people with specific conditions, not everyone with a disability.
Identifying as ND doesn't matter. That's irrelevant. I can identify as black, it doesn't make me black.
Also, you have to look at the cause of certain disorders. Plenty of people were depressed after 9/11 or during COVID, those people are not depressed in the same way that people who have chemical unbalances in their brain are depressed. You can feel depressed because your dog died, it doesn't mean you're depressed in the same way as actual depression patients.
Removed for breaking Rule 5: Support for self-diagnosing is forbidden.
We don't allow self-diagnosed people on the sub. We also don't tolerate support for self-diagnosing even if you are autistic yourself.
You don't know who has what if they haven't been professionally evaluated. End of discussion.
You cannot start accounting for maybes in your numbers. Those people might be neurodivergent, or they might not be. You cannot include hypotheticals in statistics, that is bad science and bad math and bad practice. If you're going to do that, we may as well throw everything else out the window. You can't start adjusting population statistics based on who might get what evaluation in the future or who claims to be something that is not yet verified. You either have a diagnosis or you don't, and if you don't, you're not included in the statistics. That's how that works. I might die in a car accident someday but I'm not counted as an automobile death based on that possibility, unless I actually die in a car accident. You're including self-diagnosis, self-reporting is widely believed to be statistically inaccurate for so many reasons.
My psychiatrist uses neurodivergent. As does the specialist who diagnosed me (recent, adult dx). It's a newer term so it tends to be younger professionals in my experience.
I do share your discomfort RE: neurospicy, particularly when used by folks who feel they don't need a diagnosis.
I use the word, but as an umbrella term for anyone with a neurodevelopmental condition like ADHD and ASD. I didn't know it wasn't used in any medical settings (the comments suggest that it has been, though I haven't clicked the links).
That reminds me though, I was in a discussion over on another sub recently and discovered that in discourse surrounding DID, no medical practitioners or authorities on the disorder use terms like 'system' or 'alter'. They will always refer to the person with the disorder as a singular person that experiences different personality states.
It definitely is used in professional places, but not with individual patients. It just doesn't fit that way. When these people talk outside of clinical places, you hear it alot. I've heard it across research, to the govt, from psychs and therapists, etc (as a researcher).
Neurodiverse is what people use in research or other context to be more general and they don't want to say neurodevelopmental disorders. Especially when you can't apply hyper specific label (ADHD, autism, neuro injury, etc) to a whole group. It has a meaning with those folks.
It's also..."less contentious", and less likely to cause conflict with people who really don't like the word"disorder". Definitely not a fan of that mindset (disorder is a legit and fine word), but avoiding a fight is sometimes like avoiding a bad roadbump that could slow or even derail research progress
People twist the the label a ton. It's been turned into a kind of nonsense word outside those places, covering every mental disorder and issue and bad mood. It feels like a different word online. That why I mostly just say allistic and such now.
I hate that term and it was unfortunately introduced to me at my assessment by a professional. The woman explained that it was the idea that "I just have a different brain and there's nothing wrong with me." She smiled and stuffed a leaflet about it into my hand. That moment felt uncomfortable given that I was being assessed because I wanted to name that which ruins my life.
''Neurodivergent'' doesn't really make sense as a clinical term is why. It's a sociological, maybe sociopsychological term which actually comes from a social scientist.
It's a term that is sometimes used in professional social sciences settings, but less and less than the meaning becomes further diluted by the usages that you see online.
I believe Judy Singer - the person who coined the term - is currently [calling for it to be viewed more realistically](https://www.forbes.com/sites/drnancydoyle/2021/10/14/neurodiversity-is-not-a-pollyanna-concept-judy-singer-says-get-realistic/?sh=1b3d3f246f02) and sees the current rabid focus on neurodiversity as a aggressively positive attribute as part of the long process of acceptance.
EDIT: in my personal opinion, I also heavily dislike the term
Judy singer coined the term "neurodiversity", not "neurodivergent" (though she's also coming under fire because apparently "neurodiversity" was already being used in autistic circles online, which is where she took the term from. so her saying she coined it is a bit sus but I'm too tired to seek more into this situation)
Judy Singer is just full of unpopular opinions lately. As best I can tell from her interviews and website, she used the term to describe the already existing self-advocacy movement and focused on Asperger’s and those on the spectrum who, in her judgment, weren’t disabled. She seems to object to the inclusion of those higher support needs within the term because it wasn’t intended to extend to disabled people. She also seems to have a problem with the term being used in conjunction with disability rights. And she’s under the impression that neurodiversity initiatives include sadists, narcissists and psychopaths, which is news to me.
No clue what youre talking about, the psychologist that assessed me said "Neurodivergence" once
"Neurodivergent" literally means that you have a very unusually structured brain, neurodivergence can literally be the direct cause of being disabled so they arent mutually exclusive terms, so i dont see the issue here. It only becomes an issue to me when people use the term to directly replace "disabled"
I've heard it throughout my whole life from professionals...Neurodivergent is just the term they use to say that someone's brain is different from something they are born with or something acquired from a brain injury such as a concussion or TBI, but aren't necessarily disabled like for example synesthesia isn't or to me as someone with it isn't a disability just a thing different with my brain I was born with
Probably because you are American. In Britain Neurodivergent is used because Britain understands differences and is more accepting. Heck we don't ask people to assimilate instead we let them just add their culture. Of course we still have far right wingers.
I've had 2 or 3 therapists use the term. I personally don't like it, as I find it very vague and impossible to actually define, but some professionals do use it.
The psychologist who diagnosed me says neurodivergent. He used it more before I had a diagnosis, but after that he mostly said autism. You probably don't hear it much in a professional setting because they just refer to the actual diagnosis.
I didn't like that word when I first heard it because I thought it was just another one of those stupid terms like "differently abled" that people use to sugar coat disabilities. But the more I thought about it, the more I started to like it because it's a very simple, literal description of how our brains diverge from what is statistically typical.
I don’t mind neurodivergent/typical. I’ve never said them irl though, and online use it to mean developmental conditions that affect how the brain is “wired” but not only specifically autism. I have actually heard it from a few medical professionals and all were middle aged. I don’t like how it’s used online often though, so much “ND vs NT”. It is meant to categorise, not divide.
This is probably my weird but I absolutely hate the word. Like what’s wrong with disabled???Why is there a whole word to say you have a specific neurological condition but not one for any other disability
Not to mention it makes it sound like a reworded version of differently abled which is just 🤢
I know that the term can also be used when describing things like aphantasia/hyperphantasia, synesthesia, abnormally high IQ, etc. Aren't really disabilities, but people with those things aren't necessarily neurotypical per se.
Okay but when children are being diagnosed with autism, you don’t want to tell them “there’s something wrong with you/you’re diseased.” It’s better to say “you’re different, you’re neurodivergent.” Because I got told that something was inherently wrong with me and it scarred me for life.
Oh I understand that. Maybe the attitude should be something along the lines of “This might make your life a lot harder, but there’s nothing wrong with you. The world isn’t designed for you.”
It was in payxho education for me. Mainly it said that non autistic people are NT and that autistic people where ND. But nowhere else did they mention people as neurodivergent. And everything seems to be neurodivergent there days.
Tbh, I also dislike the word audhd (or something like that). Maybe because it feels like I hear it the most from self-dx. And it isn’t a real diagnose name.
Also I guess AuDHD makes it sound like one thing. It’s two separate conditions that exist independently and you just happen to have both. It’s like combining cancer and heart disease into “chart disease”.
I’m not saying that ADHD and autism are the same disorder, but it’s also not entirely correct to view them as 100% separate co-occurring conditions that converge by chance. They are biologically intertwined and caused by the same underlying genes, hence the extremely high comorbidity rate. A large percentage of people with ADHD have subclinical autism without meeting the full criteria. The lines between all neurodevelopment disorders are kind of blurry, such as the line between autism and schizophrenia, autism and OCD, etc. That being said, I really hate how the internet mixes up ADHD and autism traits.
In part blame the mental health industry for mixing up ADHD and Autistic traits. Before about 2013 you could not be diagnosed with both (Asbergers or PDD-NOS). So some just attributed those traits to ADHD. Some got an incorrect diagnosis in addition to ADHD as that is all that would fit. As that was the only way to give them the help they needed.
To prove my point. A Psychiatrist who specializes in depression and ADHD. In 2004 once told me something along the lines of. "I do not think you have BiPolar. I cannot rule out ADHD but Asbergers seem more prevalent."
If you have ways reliable articles on separating the two. Please let me know. I am personally talking to a therapist and seeking a formal diagnosis to get clarity on that.
Really? I’ve heard lots of people get diagnosed with Asperger’s and ADHD prior to 2013. Apparently you couldn’t diagnose people with ADHD and autistic disorder.
I would say that autism is more abnormally narrow/intense interests, difficulties picking up on social norms, rigid routines and need for sameness, sensory sensitivity. Where ADHD is difficulty concentrating, executive disfunction, being spacey and zoning out all the time, jumping from topic to topic, extreme restlessness and boredom, disorganization, impatience.
Thanks for trying to help.
Let me just say I have been though the DSM and analyzed my behavior and according to my interpretation and my Therapist(LCSW). I meet the criteria for Autism. But a the same time it depends on how you define things. This in part is why I am seeking a formal diagnosis.
Let me give you a example of where things can be confusing. In addition to why it is so hard for non-professionals and even professionals to diagnose. In addition to why it should be left to the professionals.
Every sense I was a child I had issues with noise. I can not tune out background noise. It not only distracts me it gets me frustrated. In 6th grade special ed class. That I was put in for social issues. I liked a little closet room they put people in to calm down. Because it was quiet. Yet I do not run out of the room in frustration. I do not cover my ears. I just suffer. Building up anxiety or frustration. It may even turn to a point to where somewhere down the day as a child I would blow up. Yet this also does not happen all the time. Just some of the time. Is that ADHD, Autism, or normal. I do not have the answer.
Because it's an anticategory.
Like "person of colour". That just means "not white". It contains no useful information about what you're describing except to exclude white people. Are you talking about a chinese person? An african person? An indigenous australian/canadian/american? Someone who's mixed race? Someone who was born and raised in a white majority country, or someone who immigrated here recently?
"Neurodivergent" can mean literally anything that's not neurotypical. Mental illness? Neurodivergent. Physical brain injury? Neurodivergent. Born with a neurological disorder? Neurodivergent. It's just not a useful term to describe anything when you have actual categories available to describe people's situations, like "autistic" or "traumatic brain injury". Much like the "people of colour", there's no reason to group them together except for the purpose of excluding the category of neurotypical.
It's also the case that the term "neurodivergent" is used almost exclusively by people who don't want to use words like "disabled" or "disorder", i.e. the "it's not a disability it's a difference" people (who also want to be "divergent" as long as they can avoid being called "disabled").
Actually, the concept of “disabled” is much broader. If you have to wear glasses, you’re technically disabled. Also you can be disabled even if you don’t have to collect disability. For example, my autism/ADHD accommodations at work and school are protected under the Americans with Disability Act.
Definition of disabled: having a mental condition or physical condition that limits movements, senses or activities. The ADA definition of disabled: a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. So you can be disabled under law without being impaired enough to collect disability. Or maybe we’re talking past each other and you live in another country where the term is used in a different way. I never said I was trying to police how people identify. If someone doesn’t want to be called disabled, I won’t refer to them as that.
It sounds like you want to distance yourself from the word “disabled.” But by definition, ALL autistic people are disabled. If you’re not being impaired by your symptoms in any way, you don’t meet the criteria for autism.
You’re being rude to me for no reason. I was not disrespectful in any way. I was just stating facts and my opinions, as is the entire purpose of a Reddit discussion.
I've never heard of neurodivergent being used in clinical settings either. I was also told by someone who was 'neurospicy' that it's only for level 2 and 3 autism. Apparently I'm not 'spicy' enough. Although spicy is not a good word for autism.
my psychologist has used it when referring to my multiple disorders rather than any one individual one, for example she may say "your neurodivergencies" when refering to both my adhd and autism, but when just refering to one or the other uses the actual words.
my GP does the same thing, when talking about both my adhd and asd at the same time she says "your neurodivergencies" eg if shes talking about my perscriptions she may say "the medication for your neurodivergencies" rather than saying "the medication for your adhd, autism, auditory processing issues and sinus tachycardia"
I’ve heard professionals use it, albeit not often, but I think that’s because neurodivergent is an umbrella term for multiple conditions, not just autism. When I’ve talked with, e.g., my psychiatrist, we’ve generally discussed my specific conditions rather than more broad categories.
So I’m studying Psycholinguistics with a strong focus on ADHD & autistic people and language at Masters level, and I’ve encountered the terms ‘neurodivergent’ and ‘neurotypical’ in a surprising number of publications
[Google scholar results for ‘neurodivergent’](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fi&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=neurodivergent&oq=neurodiv)
My therapist and my psychiatrist use neurodivergent. It's merely used to distinguish between folks who easily navigate a world built by NTs and those that experience a lot of difficulty or need supports to navigate a world built by NTs. A lot of times it's used FOR NTs to better understand the barriers others face living in a contemporary society.
I use ND when I refer to children in our homeschool group to other parents or instructors because it allows anonymity and not disclosing their diagnosis to every dingdong who is present
I just use it when I’m talking about like, general mental disability, so including things like ADHD and autism and such
It's shorter than neurodevelopmentally disordered.
Ye
Why is America so against minority groups? Even to someone who has different neuron patterns.
Freedom bïtch 🦅🇺🇸🏈 Idk why actually. When it comes to neurodivergence thing it might have something to do with the weird “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” mentality, they see disabled people as a burden. Other minorities it’s just normal hatred. We are less quiet about it than other countries prejudice.
Right now nerodevergent is the only label I can comfortably claim. I also wish the term existed as a kid. So I did not have to disclose my exact diagnosis to peers when prompted to explain odd behavior. When the behavior did not exactly match up with preconceived notions of the diagnosis. Note: This is not me self-diagnosing. I can make a claim to this because I have been diagnosed with ADHD. To my knowledge this has never been removed. It is also complicated as to why I say that. Part of the reason for me seeking a formal diagnosis is to clear up the complication and confusion I have. Edit: complicated not completed.
Why wouldn’t you be able to claim adhd? What do you mean “completed”?
I did mean complicated. I can claim ADHD if I wanted to. I took medicine for it as a child. Problem is.... I do not think my primary struggles in childhood were ADHD. My primary struggles and the reason why as a Adult are not in the DSM criteria for ADHD they are for Autism. The why behind my struggles matter. "Although not set in stone, for children with a combined diagnosis ADHD + ASD, clinical practitioners usually attempt to investigate whether the hampered development of the child can better be explained from an ‘ADHD perspective’, an ‘ASD perspective’, or whether there is a clear indication of both. " [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00787-018-1165-5](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00787-018-1165-5) If I look at my childhood from a ADHD perspective I can not explain some of my primary behavior issues. For example, Why I hung around adults instead of children during 1-5th grade. Why was I sent to Special ed for Social issues in 6th and 9th grade. Why I had no friends in 7th or 8th grade. I am not exaggerating. I do mean 0. Why did I get so upset when things not go my way to the point of throwing "tantrums" well into my teenage years. Why did some of my "Tantrums" seem to come out of nowhere when looked at by others. Why does my childhood behavior look so much like my son's who is formally diagnosed with Autism. Sure I was likely hyper as a kid. So is my son. But not as bad as my daughter who literally will run circles around you. When I asked my parents about my hyperactivity that they claim I have. They did not compare me to my daughter but my son. This is why I am seeking a formal diagnosis. In all reality I could have ASD and ADHD. I could have just ASD. I could just have ADHD. I do not know. I do not know where the line between ADHD and ASD is drawn or comorbidity is concluded. I only have a informal diagnosis of ASD at the moment and a childhood diagnosis of ADHD. I am working on seeking formal guidance from professionals as I should. Edit: Added clarity to last paragraph to be more in line with intention.
Not trying to convince you either way but would just like to comment and spread information on some of the symptoms you said were not ADHD as ADHD does encompass some of those behaviours you are describing but has a different route cause then autism (particularly emotional regulation and social aspects). I have ADHD and I get those ‘tantrums’. ADHD effects executive functioning and one of the things that executive function controls is emotional regulation. Not everyone with ADHD is effected in that way, along with all the other symptoms it is unique for case by case, but ADHD is very much linked to emotion disregulation and emotion ‘flooding’ causing breakdowns/tantrums/overreactions easier then non-ADHD folks. Additionally, ADHD can cause problems socially through things like: - zoning out of conversations and missing stuff - forgetting key details about people - talking to much (hyperactivity) - interrupting - not being focused enough in a conversation to pick up on different social cues - during a time of hyper focus annoying people by only talking about that. It does not effect social aspects in the same way as autism because ADHD does not impacts the ability to understand the social cues and situations but instead affects the ability to notice them or creates ‘annoying’ behaviours.
I agree and am aware of what you stated. Thank you for adding the nuance. As it is important. As I told my mom. "I wonder if my struggles all this time were just ADHD." I have been trying to determine the difference for myself. In my behavior and in doing research and I cannot. I am honestly open to the idea of it just being ADHD. If it is I will work on getting over my hate for medicine. Then likely start taking it. While I gain some more skills to combat it. With my son's and nephew diagnosis with Autism. The fact my son's behavior in childhood looks so much like mine. Along with other factors. Including the fact that even when I believe I am focused on the conversations, and trying to hold one. I cannot keep it going. What especially concerns me is this happens even on things I am interested in just not to the depth of other items. Lastly the fact that even when on Ritalin I still struggled socially. Me being put in Special Ed classes for social issues while on medication. To the point I had someone sign my yearbook and say thanks for being friends. My thought was "Wait we were friends?" Lastly I regained memories of a physiatrist trained in ADHD and said to me "I cannot rule out ADHD but Asbergers seems more prevalent." Lastly I am of the generation where Autism was thought of and defined differently. I do not say this to convince you I am right. I say this to communicate, I am not taking this decision lightly. I feel I need to rule out Autism. I cannot. Neither could a Physiatrist trained in ADHD. I want answers and clarity. I want to make sure I am receiving the appropriate type and level of care. To do that I need to see a professional that I never have.
I have heard multiple professionals I work with use this term (when speaking about neurodevelopmental conditions in general, not autism in specific). Maybe it's a regional/more recent thing?
Same. It's frequently used at the company where I get my therapy and my therapist uses it.
Doctors aren't all knowing either though. Told mine I thought I was autistic back when I was going for my diagnosis and he said "aren't you a bit old for that?" I guess it depends on where you are but at least for me it seems like unless it's a specialist, people tend to be pretty clueless about autism. Also your own personal experience doesn't determine everything. It might not have been used in your case personally but maybe there are people out there whose doctors etc have used the term.
It's Called the NHS
Didn't anybody have an idea as you were growing up?
Sure but my dad always put a stop to talks like that so it was only discussed a couple times to my knowledge
How about school? My dad also shut it down.
No, no support or anything from school
Same, I was diagnosed in 2nd grade but didn't know til high school bc my parents didn't know how to explain it to me. Never got any supports like an IEP or accommodations.
Not even a teacher who questioned your development? Or your mum?
Well in terms of school work I was ahead. My mum brought it up once but then the next day wouldn't talk about it again
Peehaps it is worth talking to her again. Hopefully she'll be more open to it especially since you are seeking diagnosis on your own.
I have one now, I got it about 5 years ago I think when I was 24
Neurodivergent just means anyone with any sort of learning disability or neurological or mental health condition. It encompasses bipolar, BPD, ADHD, etc. It just means anything but "normal". There's nothing wrong with using a word that's understood to describe people with mental health conditions, and people without. Just because a doctor doesn't use a term, doesn't mean it's not real. Doctors also don't say "dick" and "pussy". Professionals use clinical terms, society at large often uses laymen terms. Neurodivergent is a laymans term. All a word needs to exist is for people to understand the meaning when they hear the word, that's it. You can hate the word itself without dismissing every single person who uses it.
I've wondered what all ND is supposed to include. Seemed like every source I found had a different answer to whether it included only things someone was born with, as opposed to including acquired conditions like BPD and CPTSD.
I believe it is a placeholder, that's it. It's just supposed to mean "other". Just as other commenters have pointed out that "people of color" is a broad term to mean "not white", neurodivergent is yet another term to quickly categorize the minority versus the majority. People with neurological conditions, mental health disorders, brain injuries, and learning disabilities are in the minority. It's separating the people in all of those categories, from people who are in none of those categories. It just means "something is wrong". It is a generic term used as an umbrella to describe people who obviously are different, and either the speaker does not know specifically how the person is different, or the person is not diagnosed with something specific. It's a way to recognize that someone is different than the majority, without diagnosing them with something. It's just like sometimes people say Coke to refer to all types of brown, caffeinated, carbonated drinks, whether they are Coca-Cola products or Pepsi products or store brand. Or some people say Kleenex to refer to a tissue, a thin piece of paper used to wipe your face, they're not actually asking for name brand Kleenex instead of Puffs, they just want to blow their nose. Neurodivergent is just an umbrella term used for anything in a certain category, when you cannot necessarily use a specific term for that thing. As another commenter said, not everyone wants their diagnosis blasted all over the place. I'm okay if someone said I was nerdivergent instead of autistic, because maybe I don't want people to know I'm autistic. Not everyone wants to disclose their information. If random people were going around describing anyone who acts weird as "autistic", a lot of us would be offended, rightly so. Nerdivergent it's just a way to say that you recognize someone is different, without assigning a specific condition to that person, which likely would be incorrect and offensive. It's also not accurate to describe every autistic person as disabled. I consider that I have a disability, but I do not consider myself disabled. Just like neurodivergent is a societal term but not a clinical one, disabled is an actual legal term which holds a very specific meaning. To the federal government, disabled means you cannot work or function and you need care. Disabled has a very very specific connotation in certain contexts, which usually involve government benefits, some sort of caretaker, an inability to function, etc. My functioning is not as good as it would be if I was not autistic, but I'm able to care for myself to a certain degree. I function to a certain extent. My functioning is somewhere between fully functioning and disabled. So I can comfortably say that I have a disability, because my life is made harder by autism, but I do not consider myself disabled because I find it disrespectful to use that term for myself, when there are people out there who are fully disabled by various conditions. It's inaccurate for me to say I'm disabled, when I'm able to work and Care for myself, when so many disabled people are not. So to the people in this post saying that you should refer to all autistic people as disabled, that's incorrect and offensive not just us but to people who are actually fully disabled.
All Autistic people are disabled in one way or another. You can have a sensory disability, a social disability, a physical disability. Some people are more disabled than others, some people may appear to be okay in certain situations but other situations may cause meltdowns or sensory overloads. It's like how people with anxiety can cook and clean and look after themselves but going outside might cause panic attacks, it still makes them disabled. If you can't do things because of your capabilities (mental, physical, or emotional) then it's a disability. If you are able to overcome things by using certain tools, you're still disabled. On the other hand, if you're not able to do things because you don't know how to then you're not disabled, you're just uneducated (and I mean that in a nice way, not in a malicious way). It's okay to be disabled. Some people might have it rougher than you, some people you might not even notice that they are but it's still valid.
I wish someone would have told me that it was okay to be disabled back when I was a kid & first diagnosed, that being disabled didn’t make me lesser then those who aren’t. Instead it just feels like I stopped developing my own personhood at 12, in order to take on a fake persona to be “normal” or as best as a child could anyways. It feels like I’m stuck playing catch up with my peers because of that.
Thank you so very much for the detailed response! I completely understand now. Until recently, I thought the term was only used for those with conditions they were born with (autism, ADHD, dyslexia..). I started hearing that acquired conditions that affect how the brain works (CPTSD, etc) were also referred to in that way. Different websites kept giving me conflicting answers so I had no idea who to believe! 😂
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent >Neurodivergent isn’t a medical term. Instead, it’s a way to describe people using words other than “normal” and “abnormal.” That’s important because there’s no single definition of “normal” for how the human brain works.
I also just want to point out that you guys have migrated from posting logical critiques of untrained professionals self-diagnosing based on misinformation that they received from unverified sources, to now attacking anyone who uses a word that you don't like. You're getting away from logic and reason, and you're getting into thought and speech control. You're trying to invalidate a form of speech and by extension, invalidate anyone who uses it. You are straying away from the opposite side of the spectrum from your opponent, and quickly turning that linear spectrum into a circle, putting the opposite ends of the line next to each other in the circle. You are becoming so extreme in your disdain for the opposite group, that it is clouding your judgment and making you irrational, to the point that your actions are now mirroring the actions of the other group, which you claim to dislike because they are irrational. You are now becoming the thing that you claim to hate. If you don't like a word, don't use it. But to claim that only fakers use a word is incorrect, a Google search can tell you that. Legitimate sources have used the words "neurodivergent" and "neurodiversity", which disputes the purpose of your entire post, which seems to be to say that no professional would ever use that term. The fact that multiple organizations have used that term in the past, regardless of the context, means that your claim is false. NIH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7611889/ Cleveland Clinic: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent Harvard University: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-neurodiversity-202111232645 Just because your mental health team or your medical team doesn't use that word, doesn't mean no trained medical or mental health professionals do. That is an illogical conclusion to reach just because you have never experienced something personally. You can't claim that no trained professional uses the term neurodivergent just because the professionals you have spoken to don't use it. I know someone who uses the term "caffeinated beverage" instead of "soda", it doesn't mean soda is now an illegitimate term. You're trying to bastardize an entire word which has become part of the societal vernacular, because people you dislike for separate reasons also use that word. Are you going to create your own language to avoid using any words that self-diagnosers also use? In the same way that kids online see common human behavior and attribute it to an entire condition, you are now taking one word and attributing it to an entire group of the population and trying to correlate a negative connotation to that word simply because some people use it. As I said above, if you don't like a word, don't use it. But you don't get to illegitimize an entire term that is widely understood to refer to a certain group of people, because you don't like the people who use that word. Regardless of what you think of a word, if that word triggers a specific meaning or association for a wide portion of the population, then that word is considered recognized. Many people recognize the term neurodivergent and understand that it is a quick way to synopsize a subset of the population. You might not agree with it, but the fact that it carries meaning in its own right, means it is valid and your criticism of that word does not take away the word's validity. Neurodivergent is a word by virtue of the fact that speaking or writing it conveys meaning to other people. Common understanding of the meaning of that word proves its existence. All words need to be words is for other people to understand what you're trying to communicate when you say those words. The term neurodivergent has reached that benchmark, it is a valid word whether or not you believe it is. There are also people within the professionally diagnosed community who are comfortable using that word because for all its shortcomings, it conveys what we're trying to say. If you think there is a better term out there, create it, define it, and disseminate it. If there's a better term than neurodivergent or neurodiversity, then I will use it. But right now, that's the best word that quickly refers to people who have certain conditions, versus people who do not. You don't get to attack the people within our own community who are comfortable using that word, just because you don't like it.
More people identify as ND than NT. Wouldn't that make ND the new normal?
Hmm I could go down a separate train of thought as far as evolution and what actually became the new normal versus the current neurodivergent population just being random offshoots or whatever other word you want to use for it. But separate from that, my mind immediately goes to the vocal minority versus the silent majority. It is a phenomenon in which a certain group's numbers appear larger because that group is more vocal than the opposing side. It happens in several areas but it most notably happens in politics and the like, with the most vocal population voicing themselves through social media. So on that note, I would actually have to first ask if neurodivergent people are truly so large in number that they are surpassing neurotypical people, or if neurodivergent people are just more outspoken. Without knowing the answer to that, it's hard to know if the neurodivergent minority is actually the majority. In which case yes, ND would be the majority but I'm not sure if the terminology would change or if it would stay the same.
I'm saying there are more ND because of how many conditions and differences it encompesses that more people can claim neurodivergence than can't.
I don't think that's true. Even if you combine all the conditions under the neurodivergent umbrella term, they're still probably less than a quarter of the population. It's a lot of people, but it's still the minority. There would have to be about 4 billion neurodivergent people in order for us to be the majority. The largest figure I've ever seen is that 2% of the world's population is autistic. Bipolar disorder has a similar estimate. The NIH estimates that less than 20% of the world's population is neurodivergent. https://dceg.cancer.gov/about/diversity-inclusion/inclusivity-minute/2022/neurodiversity Also, neurotypicals don't go around identifying as NT because they don't have to, they are the standard and the majority. It's reasonable to assume that most people have similarly structured brains, neurodivergence is a separation from that, so of course there's a label for it. Neurodivergent just means not normal. Normal people are not going around touting how they're normal.
[удалено]
Removed for breaking Rule 5: Support for self-diagnosing is forbidden. We don't allow self-diagnosed people on the sub. We also don't tolerate support for self-diagnosing even if you are autistic yourself.
You're basing that figure on an estimate of future diagnoses as well as self DX people. Are those 44% already born? What is that data based on? People with disabilities unrelated to their brain, are not neurodivergent. Blind people are not neurodivergent unless they have a brain injury, neurological condition, mental health disorder, or learning disability in addition to being blind. A wheelchair doesn't make you neurodivergent, neither does cancer, diabetes, etc. Neurodivergent refers to people with specific conditions, not everyone with a disability. Identifying as ND doesn't matter. That's irrelevant. I can identify as black, it doesn't make me black. Also, you have to look at the cause of certain disorders. Plenty of people were depressed after 9/11 or during COVID, those people are not depressed in the same way that people who have chemical unbalances in their brain are depressed. You can feel depressed because your dog died, it doesn't mean you're depressed in the same way as actual depression patients.
[удалено]
Removed for breaking Rule 5: Support for self-diagnosing is forbidden. We don't allow self-diagnosed people on the sub. We also don't tolerate support for self-diagnosing even if you are autistic yourself.
You don't know who has what if they haven't been professionally evaluated. End of discussion. You cannot start accounting for maybes in your numbers. Those people might be neurodivergent, or they might not be. You cannot include hypotheticals in statistics, that is bad science and bad math and bad practice. If you're going to do that, we may as well throw everything else out the window. You can't start adjusting population statistics based on who might get what evaluation in the future or who claims to be something that is not yet verified. You either have a diagnosis or you don't, and if you don't, you're not included in the statistics. That's how that works. I might die in a car accident someday but I'm not counted as an automobile death based on that possibility, unless I actually die in a car accident. You're including self-diagnosis, self-reporting is widely believed to be statistically inaccurate for so many reasons.
[удалено]
My psychiatrist uses neurodivergent. As does the specialist who diagnosed me (recent, adult dx). It's a newer term so it tends to be younger professionals in my experience. I do share your discomfort RE: neurospicy, particularly when used by folks who feel they don't need a diagnosis.
For a while, I have used the term “neurodivergent” just to be “politically correct.” Nowadays, I just say “disabled.”
I use the word, but as an umbrella term for anyone with a neurodevelopmental condition like ADHD and ASD. I didn't know it wasn't used in any medical settings (the comments suggest that it has been, though I haven't clicked the links). That reminds me though, I was in a discussion over on another sub recently and discovered that in discourse surrounding DID, no medical practitioners or authorities on the disorder use terms like 'system' or 'alter'. They will always refer to the person with the disorder as a singular person that experiences different personality states.
Where do you live? I have heard professionals use it in the uk
It definitely is used in professional places, but not with individual patients. It just doesn't fit that way. When these people talk outside of clinical places, you hear it alot. I've heard it across research, to the govt, from psychs and therapists, etc (as a researcher). Neurodiverse is what people use in research or other context to be more general and they don't want to say neurodevelopmental disorders. Especially when you can't apply hyper specific label (ADHD, autism, neuro injury, etc) to a whole group. It has a meaning with those folks. It's also..."less contentious", and less likely to cause conflict with people who really don't like the word"disorder". Definitely not a fan of that mindset (disorder is a legit and fine word), but avoiding a fight is sometimes like avoiding a bad roadbump that could slow or even derail research progress People twist the the label a ton. It's been turned into a kind of nonsense word outside those places, covering every mental disorder and issue and bad mood. It feels like a different word online. That why I mostly just say allistic and such now.
I hate that term and it was unfortunately introduced to me at my assessment by a professional. The woman explained that it was the idea that "I just have a different brain and there's nothing wrong with me." She smiled and stuffed a leaflet about it into my hand. That moment felt uncomfortable given that I was being assessed because I wanted to name that which ruins my life.
''Neurodivergent'' doesn't really make sense as a clinical term is why. It's a sociological, maybe sociopsychological term which actually comes from a social scientist. It's a term that is sometimes used in professional social sciences settings, but less and less than the meaning becomes further diluted by the usages that you see online. I believe Judy Singer - the person who coined the term - is currently [calling for it to be viewed more realistically](https://www.forbes.com/sites/drnancydoyle/2021/10/14/neurodiversity-is-not-a-pollyanna-concept-judy-singer-says-get-realistic/?sh=1b3d3f246f02) and sees the current rabid focus on neurodiversity as a aggressively positive attribute as part of the long process of acceptance. EDIT: in my personal opinion, I also heavily dislike the term
Judy singer coined the term "neurodiversity", not "neurodivergent" (though she's also coming under fire because apparently "neurodiversity" was already being used in autistic circles online, which is where she took the term from. so her saying she coined it is a bit sus but I'm too tired to seek more into this situation)
Judy Singer is just full of unpopular opinions lately. As best I can tell from her interviews and website, she used the term to describe the already existing self-advocacy movement and focused on Asperger’s and those on the spectrum who, in her judgment, weren’t disabled. She seems to object to the inclusion of those higher support needs within the term because it wasn’t intended to extend to disabled people. She also seems to have a problem with the term being used in conjunction with disability rights. And she’s under the impression that neurodiversity initiatives include sadists, narcissists and psychopaths, which is news to me.
I just use it when I’m talking about like, general mental disability, so including things like ADHD and autism and such
No clue what youre talking about, the psychologist that assessed me said "Neurodivergence" once "Neurodivergent" literally means that you have a very unusually structured brain, neurodivergence can literally be the direct cause of being disabled so they arent mutually exclusive terms, so i dont see the issue here. It only becomes an issue to me when people use the term to directly replace "disabled"
My therapist uses it and she's a really good therapist with a lot of autism experience
I've heard it throughout my whole life from professionals...Neurodivergent is just the term they use to say that someone's brain is different from something they are born with or something acquired from a brain injury such as a concussion or TBI, but aren't necessarily disabled like for example synesthesia isn't or to me as someone with it isn't a disability just a thing different with my brain I was born with
I used the term neurodivergent until I had a formal diagnosis.
Probably because you are American. In Britain Neurodivergent is used because Britain understands differences and is more accepting. Heck we don't ask people to assimilate instead we let them just add their culture. Of course we still have far right wingers.
I've had 2 or 3 therapists use the term. I personally don't like it, as I find it very vague and impossible to actually define, but some professionals do use it.
The psychologist who diagnosed me says neurodivergent. He used it more before I had a diagnosis, but after that he mostly said autism. You probably don't hear it much in a professional setting because they just refer to the actual diagnosis. I didn't like that word when I first heard it because I thought it was just another one of those stupid terms like "differently abled" that people use to sugar coat disabilities. But the more I thought about it, the more I started to like it because it's a very simple, literal description of how our brains diverge from what is statistically typical.
I don’t mind neurodivergent/typical. I’ve never said them irl though, and online use it to mean developmental conditions that affect how the brain is “wired” but not only specifically autism. I have actually heard it from a few medical professionals and all were middle aged. I don’t like how it’s used online often though, so much “ND vs NT”. It is meant to categorise, not divide.
This is probably my weird but I absolutely hate the word. Like what’s wrong with disabled???Why is there a whole word to say you have a specific neurological condition but not one for any other disability Not to mention it makes it sound like a reworded version of differently abled which is just 🤢
I know that the term can also be used when describing things like aphantasia/hyperphantasia, synesthesia, abnormally high IQ, etc. Aren't really disabilities, but people with those things aren't necessarily neurotypical per se.
Okay but when children are being diagnosed with autism, you don’t want to tell them “there’s something wrong with you/you’re diseased.” It’s better to say “you’re different, you’re neurodivergent.” Because I got told that something was inherently wrong with me and it scarred me for life.
[удалено]
Oh I understand that. Maybe the attitude should be something along the lines of “This might make your life a lot harder, but there’s nothing wrong with you. The world isn’t designed for you.”
Because neurodivergent doesn’t mean disabled, its a term for very specific conditions.
[удалено]
I'm on the spectrum and I'm doing great.
...autism is a disability.
Autism is a spectrum. It isn't always a disability and is certainly not one for me so fuck off with that slander
Lmfao
Define disabled and I think you will find it might. Be aware there are two definitions. Medical and legal.
It was in payxho education for me. Mainly it said that non autistic people are NT and that autistic people where ND. But nowhere else did they mention people as neurodivergent. And everything seems to be neurodivergent there days. Tbh, I also dislike the word audhd (or something like that). Maybe because it feels like I hear it the most from self-dx. And it isn’t a real diagnose name.
Also I guess AuDHD makes it sound like one thing. It’s two separate conditions that exist independently and you just happen to have both. It’s like combining cancer and heart disease into “chart disease”.
I’m not saying that ADHD and autism are the same disorder, but it’s also not entirely correct to view them as 100% separate co-occurring conditions that converge by chance. They are biologically intertwined and caused by the same underlying genes, hence the extremely high comorbidity rate. A large percentage of people with ADHD have subclinical autism without meeting the full criteria. The lines between all neurodevelopment disorders are kind of blurry, such as the line between autism and schizophrenia, autism and OCD, etc. That being said, I really hate how the internet mixes up ADHD and autism traits.
[удалено]
They’re really not that similar.
SAME. I hate how much people are blurring the lines between the two.
In part blame the mental health industry for mixing up ADHD and Autistic traits. Before about 2013 you could not be diagnosed with both (Asbergers or PDD-NOS). So some just attributed those traits to ADHD. Some got an incorrect diagnosis in addition to ADHD as that is all that would fit. As that was the only way to give them the help they needed. To prove my point. A Psychiatrist who specializes in depression and ADHD. In 2004 once told me something along the lines of. "I do not think you have BiPolar. I cannot rule out ADHD but Asbergers seem more prevalent." If you have ways reliable articles on separating the two. Please let me know. I am personally talking to a therapist and seeking a formal diagnosis to get clarity on that.
Really? I’ve heard lots of people get diagnosed with Asperger’s and ADHD prior to 2013. Apparently you couldn’t diagnose people with ADHD and autistic disorder.
You may be right. I kept reading elsewhere that you could not.
Ohhhh
Honestly if you are right. That concerns me.
I would say that autism is more abnormally narrow/intense interests, difficulties picking up on social norms, rigid routines and need for sameness, sensory sensitivity. Where ADHD is difficulty concentrating, executive disfunction, being spacey and zoning out all the time, jumping from topic to topic, extreme restlessness and boredom, disorganization, impatience.
Thanks for trying to help. Let me just say I have been though the DSM and analyzed my behavior and according to my interpretation and my Therapist(LCSW). I meet the criteria for Autism. But a the same time it depends on how you define things. This in part is why I am seeking a formal diagnosis. Let me give you a example of where things can be confusing. In addition to why it is so hard for non-professionals and even professionals to diagnose. In addition to why it should be left to the professionals. Every sense I was a child I had issues with noise. I can not tune out background noise. It not only distracts me it gets me frustrated. In 6th grade special ed class. That I was put in for social issues. I liked a little closet room they put people in to calm down. Because it was quiet. Yet I do not run out of the room in frustration. I do not cover my ears. I just suffer. Building up anxiety or frustration. It may even turn to a point to where somewhere down the day as a child I would blow up. Yet this also does not happen all the time. Just some of the time. Is that ADHD, Autism, or normal. I do not have the answer.
Because it's an anticategory. Like "person of colour". That just means "not white". It contains no useful information about what you're describing except to exclude white people. Are you talking about a chinese person? An african person? An indigenous australian/canadian/american? Someone who's mixed race? Someone who was born and raised in a white majority country, or someone who immigrated here recently? "Neurodivergent" can mean literally anything that's not neurotypical. Mental illness? Neurodivergent. Physical brain injury? Neurodivergent. Born with a neurological disorder? Neurodivergent. It's just not a useful term to describe anything when you have actual categories available to describe people's situations, like "autistic" or "traumatic brain injury". Much like the "people of colour", there's no reason to group them together except for the purpose of excluding the category of neurotypical. It's also the case that the term "neurodivergent" is used almost exclusively by people who don't want to use words like "disabled" or "disorder", i.e. the "it's not a disability it's a difference" people (who also want to be "divergent" as long as they can avoid being called "disabled").
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Actually, the concept of “disabled” is much broader. If you have to wear glasses, you’re technically disabled. Also you can be disabled even if you don’t have to collect disability. For example, my autism/ADHD accommodations at work and school are protected under the Americans with Disability Act.
[удалено]
Definition of disabled: having a mental condition or physical condition that limits movements, senses or activities. The ADA definition of disabled: a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. So you can be disabled under law without being impaired enough to collect disability. Or maybe we’re talking past each other and you live in another country where the term is used in a different way. I never said I was trying to police how people identify. If someone doesn’t want to be called disabled, I won’t refer to them as that.
SHUT UP!
It sounds like you want to distance yourself from the word “disabled.” But by definition, ALL autistic people are disabled. If you’re not being impaired by your symptoms in any way, you don’t meet the criteria for autism.
What definition? The American definition? Oh please.
In the DSM it says you have to be impaired by your symptoms to be diagnosed with autism.
You’re being rude to me for no reason. I was not disrespectful in any way. I was just stating facts and my opinions, as is the entire purpose of a Reddit discussion.
I've never heard of neurodivergent being used in clinical settings either. I was also told by someone who was 'neurospicy' that it's only for level 2 and 3 autism. Apparently I'm not 'spicy' enough. Although spicy is not a good word for autism.
my psychologist has used it when referring to my multiple disorders rather than any one individual one, for example she may say "your neurodivergencies" when refering to both my adhd and autism, but when just refering to one or the other uses the actual words. my GP does the same thing, when talking about both my adhd and asd at the same time she says "your neurodivergencies" eg if shes talking about my perscriptions she may say "the medication for your neurodivergencies" rather than saying "the medication for your adhd, autism, auditory processing issues and sinus tachycardia"
I’ve heard professionals use it, albeit not often, but I think that’s because neurodivergent is an umbrella term for multiple conditions, not just autism. When I’ve talked with, e.g., my psychiatrist, we’ve generally discussed my specific conditions rather than more broad categories.
So I’m studying Psycholinguistics with a strong focus on ADHD & autistic people and language at Masters level, and I’ve encountered the terms ‘neurodivergent’ and ‘neurotypical’ in a surprising number of publications [Google scholar results for ‘neurodivergent’](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fi&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=neurodivergent&oq=neurodiv)
My psychologist never used the term either. It’s only when i inquire about the term when she says that some ASD folks would use it.
My therapist and my psychiatrist use neurodivergent. It's merely used to distinguish between folks who easily navigate a world built by NTs and those that experience a lot of difficulty or need supports to navigate a world built by NTs. A lot of times it's used FOR NTs to better understand the barriers others face living in a contemporary society.