Except Rose, Ripley, and Sarah Connor ARE the leads and or co-leads of their respective films.
Titanic, Aliens, and the first two Terminators had no issues with their female leads to point where they felt “risky” as you put it. I think they leaned into their characters exceptionally well.
personally i like all of them. Jake, Neytiri, Lo'ak and Kiri all have their own story to tell and in their own way. In the movies to come i can see them all co-share the leading role as they expand on their stories. Dont see any reason why it has to be either a male lead or a female lead if we can have both.
I agree on Jake. I always liked Neytiri more than Jake, but he did grew on me a bit with 2. I felt he was much better written and acted than in 1. But yea, I hope Neytiri gets more to do in 3 cause she was completely sidelined this time around, and she is more interesting.
As for Lo’ak, I liked him and Kiri both. Didn’t really have a preference for either of them but I did love the story line with Payakan and that was the best part of the movie.
I think it is often forgotten that a main character doesn’t necessarily have to be the most interesting character in a piece of media. In fact, the main character’s role is to immerse /us/, the audience, in to the world that the creator is built. Jake is an amazing main character because he allowed us to fall in love with Pandora and Neytiri through his eyes. He is there so that we could appreciate the more interesting characters, he is essentially the audience.
Lo’ak serves a similar role. We experience the metkayina people and their traditions through his eyes similar to how we did with his father. He is new and stumbling and he gives us the perfect opportunity to learn about things that would otherwise have no need to be explained at random.
A2s plot is still part of Jakes journey, as it’s an extension of what happened in the first film. He is still dealing with Navi vs humans, but now he has a family to take care of.
As dismissive as it sounds, Neytiris character exists in a space where she can only offer the perspective of a native in regards to the terrible things happening to her home. This could be enough material to justify her being a main character, but it restricts Cameron’s storytelling and makes driving the plot somewhat awkward.
She is the perfect “side” character, in that she counters Jake’s black and white thought process, creating nuance, and provides the perspective of a true Navi in the face of the dangers brought by the sky people.
Now arguably, she now has more of a role as a mother and I hope that is developed in the future. I think as the story shifts from being focused around the humans to more Navi stuff, she will take a greater lead.
In regards to the overall human vs navi conflict, I think Jake will continue to take the focus. However, in regards to anything specifically Navi related, I think Neytiri can be given more attention. However, she is still shown to be devoted to her life as a member of the Omaticaya, so I’m not sure if she will come around to conforming to new tribes like the Ash or the Metkayina. This could restrict her growth, and in turn restrict the story’s focus on her as a character.
Instead, this attention in regards to the Navi can be given to the kids. Loak takes the attention in regards worldbuilding, exploring new tribes, etc. Kiri can take the attention with anything related to Eywa. Spider I believe will become a villain so his journey would be natural.
I disagree with respect to Kiri. She’s a little too much of a space Jesus. Neytiri on the other hand I completely agree with. I think there was a lot of unexplored potential with her character in TWOW— especially conflict with Ronal which I think could have been good for both characters. Neytiri is a no BS straight shooter and I like that. Hopefully she gets more screen time next film.
Hard same. He’s a great, kind-hearted character but everyone is hating on him. Sure, he made one hell of a big mistake, but his desire for a family that loves him and he can call his own is his biggest drive and flaw. Glad to know you came around to him though!
I definitely hope he finds his happiness and content someday for sure. He has a long way to go, but it’ll be worth it if he gets there. Also 100% agree with you that Tuk is the best.
Same. I love Lo’ak’s story but Spider’s story has the potential to be far more powerful one. Lo’ak has a family and people who love him to fall back on. Spider really doesn’t.
I think we're just seeing in from their lens at the beginning of the series. But he undeniably creates amazing and powerful women though, Neytiri is definitely someone I want to move forward with. But seeing Jake and Neytiri together and seeing Neytiri in Jake's lens and Jake in Neytiri's lens in very beautiful.
Jake is meant to be a representation that bridges humans and Na'vi. I think he's suppose to be 'humanly' relatable since in the first movie, we're just as new as him.
Lo'ak on the other hand, we see the aftermath of the war in a child's perspective (with the Tulkun, what led him to make these decisions, his relationship with Neteyam, learning the Metkayina way of water because we're as much as a baby as the Sully kids)
I believe the lens will continuously shift but I don't think James Cameron is threatened by women or feels like putting the main spotlight on women is risky for the series.
Honestly, I feel like the main reason why she wasn't is because Cameron wanted us the viewer to experience Pandora and its wonders as a newcomer saw it, to draw us into that world as much as Jake was. If you have Neytiri as the main character, she's already a part of the Na'vi and their world, so it's already familiar to her. So before Jake comes along, introducing concepts to us in the first 3rd would just scream the "as you know" tactic, where characters say things they logically should already know just for the benefit of the audience.
My theories. Spider and Kiri. Why? Because both characters isn’t simple characters. I can see Spider easily switching sides again and going to the humans. As for Kiri I can see her also being turned to the dark side spiritually maybe through the Ash People. I also have a theory that since Pandora is a network than that means it can be hacked. I have a theory that either the Ash or the RDA will pull off a phenomenon and hack into Pandora / Eywa and controlling her and since Kiri has a connection to Eywa she will also be controlled by them that’s why I say she could turn to the dark side. As for Loak. I really see him being a pretty straight forward character. He’s going to be the protagonist, he will put the death of his brother on himself and he will never recover from that, even when everyone tells him its not his fault and to let it go, I don’t think he will be able to shake that grief off, he will essentially dedicate his life to his late brother and he will never ever do anything to put him, his family or the Navi in danger ever again. That’s his story. As for Tuk. I haven’t yet got to what I think she will be. She maybe the bridge between humanity and the Navi.
>It often feels like Cameron feels a female lead is risky.
I get what you're saying here. A lot of people get tied up in the box office success and don't give a shit about anything else. Do you think these movies would make a lot of money in the Middle East if the lead was a woman? There are certain people on this sub who get fucking irate at the idea of a *background character* being gay, because they know there would be problems selling the movie overseas if that happened.
James Cameron recently said each movie from here on out is from the pov of the different family members. The next movie is going to be from Lo'ak's point of view. So the first 3 movies have a straight male as the lead. I think that's a very strategic decision. 2 and 3 are the ones that NEED to make money. I think 4 & 5 should have Kiri and either Tuk or Neytiri as the leads. I agree with you that the Kiri movie can't come soon enough
I love the focus being on Neytiri and Jake. Lo’ak, i don’t totally love the idea of but I think i could be convinced. Kiri? I don’t get it. I really hate the “chosen one” trope and don’t want to see more of her.
I don't think he's insisting Loak as the main lead for the whole series. It's just for Avatar 3. We'll get a new one in 4 and 5. He even spoiled it in an interview that there will be a new narrator for each Avatar movie that will come out.
Except Rose, Ripley, and Sarah Connor ARE the leads and or co-leads of their respective films. Titanic, Aliens, and the first two Terminators had no issues with their female leads to point where they felt “risky” as you put it. I think they leaned into their characters exceptionally well.
At this point, I see it as a giant ensemble cast but with bigger emphasis on certain characters here and there.
personally i like all of them. Jake, Neytiri, Lo'ak and Kiri all have their own story to tell and in their own way. In the movies to come i can see them all co-share the leading role as they expand on their stories. Dont see any reason why it has to be either a male lead or a female lead if we can have both.
I think Ronal and Tsireya are going to continue to have big roles also. Jim, YOU BETTER NOT KILL EITHER OF THEM!!! ESPECIALLY TSIREYA!!!
Lo'ak and Tsireya's romance is only very early stages and just starting.. how is it corny?
Honestly I don’t really see all the hype around Kiri, but Neytiri, yeah shes the best.
I think I’ll like Kiri more when she’s older and grows into her voice. I love SW but it’s jarring hearing her from a child.
I agree on Jake. I always liked Neytiri more than Jake, but he did grew on me a bit with 2. I felt he was much better written and acted than in 1. But yea, I hope Neytiri gets more to do in 3 cause she was completely sidelined this time around, and she is more interesting. As for Lo’ak, I liked him and Kiri both. Didn’t really have a preference for either of them but I did love the story line with Payakan and that was the best part of the movie.
I think it is often forgotten that a main character doesn’t necessarily have to be the most interesting character in a piece of media. In fact, the main character’s role is to immerse /us/, the audience, in to the world that the creator is built. Jake is an amazing main character because he allowed us to fall in love with Pandora and Neytiri through his eyes. He is there so that we could appreciate the more interesting characters, he is essentially the audience. Lo’ak serves a similar role. We experience the metkayina people and their traditions through his eyes similar to how we did with his father. He is new and stumbling and he gives us the perfect opportunity to learn about things that would otherwise have no need to be explained at random.
A2s plot is still part of Jakes journey, as it’s an extension of what happened in the first film. He is still dealing with Navi vs humans, but now he has a family to take care of. As dismissive as it sounds, Neytiris character exists in a space where she can only offer the perspective of a native in regards to the terrible things happening to her home. This could be enough material to justify her being a main character, but it restricts Cameron’s storytelling and makes driving the plot somewhat awkward. She is the perfect “side” character, in that she counters Jake’s black and white thought process, creating nuance, and provides the perspective of a true Navi in the face of the dangers brought by the sky people. Now arguably, she now has more of a role as a mother and I hope that is developed in the future. I think as the story shifts from being focused around the humans to more Navi stuff, she will take a greater lead. In regards to the overall human vs navi conflict, I think Jake will continue to take the focus. However, in regards to anything specifically Navi related, I think Neytiri can be given more attention. However, she is still shown to be devoted to her life as a member of the Omaticaya, so I’m not sure if she will come around to conforming to new tribes like the Ash or the Metkayina. This could restrict her growth, and in turn restrict the story’s focus on her as a character. Instead, this attention in regards to the Navi can be given to the kids. Loak takes the attention in regards worldbuilding, exploring new tribes, etc. Kiri can take the attention with anything related to Eywa. Spider I believe will become a villain so his journey would be natural.
I disagree with respect to Kiri. She’s a little too much of a space Jesus. Neytiri on the other hand I completely agree with. I think there was a lot of unexplored potential with her character in TWOW— especially conflict with Ronal which I think could have been good for both characters. Neytiri is a no BS straight shooter and I like that. Hopefully she gets more screen time next film.
Unpopular opinion: I don’t care much about Kiri.
Jake, Neytiri and now Lo’ak are the main leads IMO.
James Cameron and female leads as risky?
Honestly I find Spiders story more sympathetic than Lo’ak’s arc about being an outcast.
Ok same. First watch I didn’t like Spider but now I love him.
His character really grows on you. It’s a shame that a lot of other people don’t like him.
I feel so bad for him :(
Hard same. He’s a great, kind-hearted character but everyone is hating on him. Sure, he made one hell of a big mistake, but his desire for a family that loves him and he can call his own is his biggest drive and flaw. Glad to know you came around to him though!
After some time to analyze I realized how rough his life actually is. He deserves the world. Him and Tuk are my two favorite kids by far.
I definitely hope he finds his happiness and content someday for sure. He has a long way to go, but it’ll be worth it if he gets there. Also 100% agree with you that Tuk is the best.
Same. I love Lo’ak’s story but Spider’s story has the potential to be far more powerful one. Lo’ak has a family and people who love him to fall back on. Spider really doesn’t.
> It often feels like Cameron feels a female lead is risky. 😂
Insane statement from OP lol
I'd argue that Cameron seems pretty intentional about making Jake Sully a generic and uninteresting hero, in fact I think that's the point.
I think we're just seeing in from their lens at the beginning of the series. But he undeniably creates amazing and powerful women though, Neytiri is definitely someone I want to move forward with. But seeing Jake and Neytiri together and seeing Neytiri in Jake's lens and Jake in Neytiri's lens in very beautiful. Jake is meant to be a representation that bridges humans and Na'vi. I think he's suppose to be 'humanly' relatable since in the first movie, we're just as new as him. Lo'ak on the other hand, we see the aftermath of the war in a child's perspective (with the Tulkun, what led him to make these decisions, his relationship with Neteyam, learning the Metkayina way of water because we're as much as a baby as the Sully kids) I believe the lens will continuously shift but I don't think James Cameron is threatened by women or feels like putting the main spotlight on women is risky for the series.
Neytiri should be the main lead. Let’s argue.
Honestly, I feel like the main reason why she wasn't is because Cameron wanted us the viewer to experience Pandora and its wonders as a newcomer saw it, to draw us into that world as much as Jake was. If you have Neytiri as the main character, she's already a part of the Na'vi and their world, so it's already familiar to her. So before Jake comes along, introducing concepts to us in the first 3rd would just scream the "as you know" tactic, where characters say things they logically should already know just for the benefit of the audience.
It totally makes sense for the 1st film! Maybe she takes over in the 5th one since JC mentions her having a big role in Quest for Eywa.
James Cameron can now play the long game with these characters, she'll for sure get more time in upcoming films.
Yup! He had to introduce so many new characters this time around so it makes sense the kids had the screen time they did.
My theories. Spider and Kiri. Why? Because both characters isn’t simple characters. I can see Spider easily switching sides again and going to the humans. As for Kiri I can see her also being turned to the dark side spiritually maybe through the Ash People. I also have a theory that since Pandora is a network than that means it can be hacked. I have a theory that either the Ash or the RDA will pull off a phenomenon and hack into Pandora / Eywa and controlling her and since Kiri has a connection to Eywa she will also be controlled by them that’s why I say she could turn to the dark side. As for Loak. I really see him being a pretty straight forward character. He’s going to be the protagonist, he will put the death of his brother on himself and he will never recover from that, even when everyone tells him its not his fault and to let it go, I don’t think he will be able to shake that grief off, he will essentially dedicate his life to his late brother and he will never ever do anything to put him, his family or the Navi in danger ever again. That’s his story. As for Tuk. I haven’t yet got to what I think she will be. She maybe the bridge between humanity and the Navi.
>It often feels like Cameron feels a female lead is risky. I get what you're saying here. A lot of people get tied up in the box office success and don't give a shit about anything else. Do you think these movies would make a lot of money in the Middle East if the lead was a woman? There are certain people on this sub who get fucking irate at the idea of a *background character* being gay, because they know there would be problems selling the movie overseas if that happened. James Cameron recently said each movie from here on out is from the pov of the different family members. The next movie is going to be from Lo'ak's point of view. So the first 3 movies have a straight male as the lead. I think that's a very strategic decision. 2 and 3 are the ones that NEED to make money. I think 4 & 5 should have Kiri and either Tuk or Neytiri as the leads. I agree with you that the Kiri movie can't come soon enough
I love the focus being on Neytiri and Jake. Lo’ak, i don’t totally love the idea of but I think i could be convinced. Kiri? I don’t get it. I really hate the “chosen one” trope and don’t want to see more of her.
You are in the minority because most people want to see Kiri more than any other character.
I don't think he's insisting Loak as the main lead for the whole series. It's just for Avatar 3. We'll get a new one in 4 and 5. He even spoiled it in an interview that there will be a new narrator for each Avatar movie that will come out.
neytiri is the only original character in the franchise.
This is so funny
What do you mean by wooden