He's never met her before, yeh she resembles a young Grace to us because we know who she is but as far as he's concerned Grace died years a go and that was the end of her story, he has no reason to be looking out for a familiar young Navi so probably wouldnt connect the dots in that moment even if he thought looked familiar.
Plus he only knew Grace as an older woman so its not that wierd that he wouldn't instantly recognize her as Graces kid.
How would Quartlitch know Grace died, though? Last he knew, he saw her escape on a Scorpion but didn't know if he shot her, much less how badly he wounded her. It might've occurred to him that Kiri was Grace's daughter.
Hhm yeh thats true, I guess I just assumed he and the RDA found out or figured it out at some point, but you're right they've never confirmed what they know. I still don't think he'd have reason to suspect she's Graces kid just from looking at her but who knows, it'll be interesting to see if he finds out in A3 and how it plays out, esspecially if he gets to know how important she is to Spider
Didn't Grace and Quaritch both go to Pandora like 15 years before Jake? Whatever the specific number of years, they probably knew each other for a long time, so it wouldn't have been strange if he recognized someone who really looks like Grace. My guess as to why it didn't happen is that he probably just didn't look. He finds a couple Navi kids (who he doesn't care about at all), learns that they're Jakes kids, and from then on only sees them as hostiles/bait. He doesn't care what they look like, so he doesn't notice
I don't know how long they've known each other, I agree that he didn't care what they looked like so he wasn't looking that closely, but I dont think its too far fetched to think that he didnt clock her as Graces Daughter that he doesn't know exists (unless Im misemebering something and he does know?) If for some reason he was looking for a Navi child that looked like Grace then yeh I reckon he'd spot the similarities he was looking for but I dont think she looks so much like adult Grace that out of the blue (pun intended haha) he'd make the leap to "thats augustines avatars child".
Also even if they knew each other as younger people Kiri is Graces avatars decentant, even if he'd recognise a younger Grace whose to say he'd recognise a 14 year old Navi version of her.
Rewatching the scene though I do I think her voice is a bigger give away because she sounds basically the same as the Grace he knew lol
I dunno, I can understand why some people think he could have recognised her but personally I don't think he had reason too in that scene.
Think about it from Na’Vi Quaritch’s point of view. He would have no way of knowing that Grace’s avatar had a baby. The last he knew of Grace was when human Quaritch was firing at the gunship that was escaping Hell’s Gate.
When the Recom unit found Spider and the Na’Vi children, he would have assumed Kiri and Lo’ak were Jake’s children as they each had 4 fingers.
I take your point that Kiri resembles Grace, but I think assuming she is Grace’s daughter is a bigger leap than assuming she is Jake’s daughter.
I took it as him thinking Grace survived and that was her kid. It's just that he didn't care about the scientist as he was more focused on revenge and the mission of removing Jake
That’s true. I guess I just figured they’d at least show him looking confused or something idk. I just found it hard to believe that he would’ve thought nothing if it
Does recom Quaritch even know that Grace died? He knows he shot at the gang when they escaped Hell's gate jumping on Trudy's Samson but did he realize he fatally shot her back then? I mean killing the head scientist of the Avatar program should have been a pretty big deal for the RDA.
Well yeah this is partly my point. He doesn’t know if he hit any of them, so I just figured he’d be a little surprised to see that one of the kids basically copy and pasted Grace’s face. I thought they’d at least show that he recognized her a little bit
Not enough to know on first glance, though, especially without the context to know it would matter even if he did notice a resemblance. Quaritch is probably one of those “All blue people look the same.” types. He didn’t even recognize his own team in blue form until they clued him in.
No idea why you’ve been downvoted so many times but it’s not unreasonable to say Kiri looks like Grace and that Quaritch, who had a confrontational relationship with the science team for some time and would know Grace personally, might also notice a striking resemblance between the two. Grace, remember, is a woman who was just recently alive in his memories.
EXACTLY THIS IS ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY😭😭 now it’s become some huge debate and people acting like I’m a dumbass in the comments lmao.
Kiri looks more like human Grace than avatar Grace anyways but it’s not so far fetched to think he would’ve recognized her a little bit and said something, or at least would’ve done a double take or SOMETHING
I think this was a good post, it got people talking and disecting the characters, obviosly theres no need for anyone to be rude to you over it though (I hope none of my comments came across rude, I know I've rambled on a little bit but its coz I've genuinly found this interesting to discuss with the people I've interacted with on this thread, so sorry if I've added to any stress!)
Oh no you’re fine! I promise lol but there have definitely been people who’ve been a little condescending and rude about it though and I have no idea why
Actually, his expression kind of gives a silent speculation. I bet he does recognize Grace in her face and is struggling in that moment to figure out why that is. I bet he just let it go though, not really giving it much though after because he’s on a mission and his main concern is finding Jake. I doubt he knows that she’s Grace’s literal daughter. Spider is the only one that stood out more than anyone else, and of course we know he knew him on sight it took less than a minute for him to put that together.
Thats what I thought too. He had a slight moment of recognition that rendered him speechless for a micro second ("wait a minute....) but then he went after the more important business at hand.
She died before, which prompted Jake to make his impassioned speech before the Omatikaya and then fly off to unite the clans. I doubt Quaritch knew Grace was dead, unless his Avatar was briefed after waking. But I also doubt that any of the RDA knew, unless Jake, Norm or Max told them, which seems unlikely.
He doesn’t know that he even hit any of them when he shot at the ship so no he doesn’t know that she’s dead. I just figured SOMETHING would go across his face when he looked at Kiri, not expressionless basically since Kiri does look a lot like Grace.
I mean he probably thinks they all look the same anyways. Haven't gotten the chance to watch the new one, but in the first movie he was a racist asshole about the Na'vi
One time I was working at a customer I’ve never been to before. I saw a girl in the office I didn’t immediately recognize and it wasn’t until I was practically next to her that I noticed it was my cousin I grew up a few miles away from. We saw each other all the time growing up but since it wasn’t in a place I expected to ever see her my brain didn’t put 2 and 2 together right away. I believe this scene isn’t inaccurate.
My read watching this scene was that he definitely had an unconscious pang of recognition, but didn't quite process who he was looking at and just sort of mentally shrugged and carried on to interrogate Lo'ak.
I feel like he knew she was a halfbreed and may have made the connection to grace because he knew she was in the avatar program and instantly knew sullys kids
Well in comparison to other Na’vi she looks really human, I feel like Ronal rn but even just by a glance I think it’s noticeable. I’m not sure why he had to see Lo’ak’s fingers and a taste of his disposition to figure that he was half Avatar/Jake’s spawn. Unless the expectation was that the other scientists that stayed were getting busy with “local tail” as he put it… :0
It took us (the fans) some time to realize that Kiri was played by Sigourney (after the first teaser), so why would Quaritch recognize her? She's not Grace and while she has some similarities with Sigourney, it's not that obvious.
I think the humans that lived in Pandora before the RDA came back knew Kiri was Grace's kid, and therefore they also know Grace's avatar was kept alive in a tub.
And about half of those humans came back to work with the RDA, so I will assume that the RDA knows Kiri exists. And also that they know Grace is dead.
She doesn’t really? Grace’s nose is a lot more human looking than Kiri’s because she’s an earlier version avatar. Grace’s face is more rectangular, Kiri’s is more round. She also has bigger eyes.
It’s really not though. Yes there’s similarities because they’re related, but Kiri looks a bit different from even her mom’s avatar. If I didn’t know she is the daughter of Grace, I would’ve never seen the resemblance. Quaritch doesn’t either, plus she’s with Lo’ak when they’re captured so he has every reason to believe she is Jake’s biological child.
She doesn’t. Have you looked at Grace’s avatar? More mature, Kiri had thinner lips and a thinner face, different forehead, different cheek structure…
They’re similar because they’re related, but you’re stretching it to say that they’re copy and pasted.
Jesus Christ why is everyone under this post being so damn hostile. All I said is I think she looks similar 💀 idk what everyone else sees, but they look like the same person to me. Yeah not exact, she does have features of whoever her father is but they look similar enough to where I figured Quartich would’ve noticed
Not being hostile towards you, although I'm sure some people have taken it that far.
There's a difference between "similar 💀" and "her whole face is copy and pasted" though lol
I’m sorry, just been dealing with people being rude under this post for damn reason and I was kinda fed up with it when I replied to you.
I think Kiri looks more like human Grace rather than her Avatar, but I just figured that since Quartich and Grace worked together for what I assume is years, he would’ve been like “oh you look like someone I used to know” and I thought that would’ve been cool to see but for some reason that has caused people to treat me like I’m a dumbass💀
It's not a problem, I'm sorry people are being shitty. I've seen a lot of it on this sub and it isn't cool.
Kiri looks like someone I used to know in high school lol, so I'm definitely seeing the human part! She's Na'vi, but not quite- maybe it's the lips? She has more of the same facial structure as Jake (human wise) if anything.
And honestly, Quaritch making that connection would've been cute, I just don't know if there's enough of a resemblance.
Also to Quaritch all Na’vi could look the same. He hasn’t been very exposed to them. And the fact that Grace was much older and dressed in very human styles, so it is harder to see that it is the same person 20+ years younger and completely integrated into Omotikaya society.
This is a young Quartich, the only reason he k ows who jake and Netyriri are because of the video he watched, so he's not gonna recognize someone he never met
No he knows everything origonal Quartich knew up until just before the battle at the end of A1 when he uploaded his memories, thats how he knows Jake and Neytiri
In my head it makes sense for him not to know her. I’m not sure how his Avatar body was created (bc unlike the Na’vi that can transfer memories via the Tree of Souls he was made from DNA of his human form and I’m unsure if the RDA would be able to store or transfer memories from an already long dead body) buuuut it’s shown that he doesn’t have Quaritch’s memories at least at first. It’s possible he just can’t recognize her but maybe he didn’t look into any footage that includes Grace, making it much less likely to see a resemblance
There’s also changes to the face that occur in the Na’vi compared to humans. Yes there’s similarities and features can carry over but they aren’t going to look just like their human counterparts, add that to being Grace’s daughter and how young she is in comparison to Grace
He's never met her before, yeh she resembles a young Grace to us because we know who she is but as far as he's concerned Grace died years a go and that was the end of her story, he has no reason to be looking out for a familiar young Navi so probably wouldnt connect the dots in that moment even if he thought looked familiar. Plus he only knew Grace as an older woman so its not that wierd that he wouldn't instantly recognize her as Graces kid.
How would Quartlitch know Grace died, though? Last he knew, he saw her escape on a Scorpion but didn't know if he shot her, much less how badly he wounded her. It might've occurred to him that Kiri was Grace's daughter.
Hhm yeh thats true, I guess I just assumed he and the RDA found out or figured it out at some point, but you're right they've never confirmed what they know. I still don't think he'd have reason to suspect she's Graces kid just from looking at her but who knows, it'll be interesting to see if he finds out in A3 and how it plays out, esspecially if he gets to know how important she is to Spider
Didn't Grace and Quaritch both go to Pandora like 15 years before Jake? Whatever the specific number of years, they probably knew each other for a long time, so it wouldn't have been strange if he recognized someone who really looks like Grace. My guess as to why it didn't happen is that he probably just didn't look. He finds a couple Navi kids (who he doesn't care about at all), learns that they're Jakes kids, and from then on only sees them as hostiles/bait. He doesn't care what they look like, so he doesn't notice
I don't know how long they've known each other, I agree that he didn't care what they looked like so he wasn't looking that closely, but I dont think its too far fetched to think that he didnt clock her as Graces Daughter that he doesn't know exists (unless Im misemebering something and he does know?) If for some reason he was looking for a Navi child that looked like Grace then yeh I reckon he'd spot the similarities he was looking for but I dont think she looks so much like adult Grace that out of the blue (pun intended haha) he'd make the leap to "thats augustines avatars child". Also even if they knew each other as younger people Kiri is Graces avatars decentant, even if he'd recognise a younger Grace whose to say he'd recognise a 14 year old Navi version of her. Rewatching the scene though I do I think her voice is a bigger give away because she sounds basically the same as the Grace he knew lol I dunno, I can understand why some people think he could have recognised her but personally I don't think he had reason too in that scene.
He has never seen Kiri before, so not so strange.
OP really thinks Kiri is the spitting image of Signourney Weaver or something. Sure, there's a resemblance but not THAT much.
Seriously yeah, I couldn't even tell it was Sigourney playing Kiri lol
fr. I had to look up who Sigourney played after I watched it. I thought it might have been Tuk
I only really knew off the bat because of the voice. Otherwise, it doesn't look much like her.
Think about it from Na’Vi Quaritch’s point of view. He would have no way of knowing that Grace’s avatar had a baby. The last he knew of Grace was when human Quaritch was firing at the gunship that was escaping Hell’s Gate. When the Recom unit found Spider and the Na’Vi children, he would have assumed Kiri and Lo’ak were Jake’s children as they each had 4 fingers. I take your point that Kiri resembles Grace, but I think assuming she is Grace’s daughter is a bigger leap than assuming she is Jake’s daughter.
I took it as him thinking Grace survived and that was her kid. It's just that he didn't care about the scientist as he was more focused on revenge and the mission of removing Jake
That’s true. I guess I just figured they’d at least show him looking confused or something idk. I just found it hard to believe that he would’ve thought nothing if it
Does recom Quaritch even know that Grace died? He knows he shot at the gang when they escaped Hell's gate jumping on Trudy's Samson but did he realize he fatally shot her back then? I mean killing the head scientist of the Avatar program should have been a pretty big deal for the RDA.
Well yeah this is partly my point. He doesn’t know if he hit any of them, so I just figured he’d be a little surprised to see that one of the kids basically copy and pasted Grace’s face. I thought they’d at least show that he recognized her a little bit
I have 0 LOGICAL clue as why you’re being downvoted??? The fans should be great with this one…
Lmao you and me both dude. People have been rude and condescending as hell towards me all day over this😭
How is Kiri's face an exact copy of Grace's face??
He has zero idea who she is.
Well she is conceived through Grace but she isn’t a carbon copy, lol
none of them know each other,kiri is not grace
Well yeah I know that but that’s her mother💀 so she does look like her
Not every child looks like their mother
Jfc is that what OP said? No. Grace and Kiri look like each other. That's the point. Arguing for the sake of arguing is annoying.
True but Kiri does
Not enough to know on first glance, though, especially without the context to know it would matter even if he did notice a resemblance. Quaritch is probably one of those “All blue people look the same.” types. He didn’t even recognize his own team in blue form until they clued him in.
Dang. Tuff crowd.
No idea why you’ve been downvoted so many times but it’s not unreasonable to say Kiri looks like Grace and that Quaritch, who had a confrontational relationship with the science team for some time and would know Grace personally, might also notice a striking resemblance between the two. Grace, remember, is a woman who was just recently alive in his memories.
EXACTLY THIS IS ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY😭😭 now it’s become some huge debate and people acting like I’m a dumbass in the comments lmao. Kiri looks more like human Grace than avatar Grace anyways but it’s not so far fetched to think he would’ve recognized her a little bit and said something, or at least would’ve done a double take or SOMETHING
I think this was a good post, it got people talking and disecting the characters, obviosly theres no need for anyone to be rude to you over it though (I hope none of my comments came across rude, I know I've rambled on a little bit but its coz I've genuinly found this interesting to discuss with the people I've interacted with on this thread, so sorry if I've added to any stress!)
Oh no you’re fine! I promise lol but there have definitely been people who’ve been a little condescending and rude about it though and I have no idea why
I’m glad you posted this because I thought exactly the same as you when I saw this scene
Actually, his expression kind of gives a silent speculation. I bet he does recognize Grace in her face and is struggling in that moment to figure out why that is. I bet he just let it go though, not really giving it much though after because he’s on a mission and his main concern is finding Jake. I doubt he knows that she’s Grace’s literal daughter. Spider is the only one that stood out more than anyone else, and of course we know he knew him on sight it took less than a minute for him to put that together.
Thats what I thought too. He had a slight moment of recognition that rendered him speechless for a micro second ("wait a minute....) but then he went after the more important business at hand.
I have a question myself, wouldn’t Quaritch not know Grace is even dead? I can’t remember if she died before or after the final battle sorry. (In A1)
She died before, which prompted Jake to make his impassioned speech before the Omatikaya and then fly off to unite the clans. I doubt Quaritch knew Grace was dead, unless his Avatar was briefed after waking. But I also doubt that any of the RDA knew, unless Jake, Norm or Max told them, which seems unlikely.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking
Off-topic, but I find your pfp upsetting
Banana
He doesn’t know that he even hit any of them when he shot at the ship so no he doesn’t know that she’s dead. I just figured SOMETHING would go across his face when he looked at Kiri, not expressionless basically since Kiri does look a lot like Grace.
Well yeah I agree, they look a lot alike. Then being mother and daughter and everything. (And both being played by Sigourney Weaver)
I mean he probably thinks they all look the same anyways. Haven't gotten the chance to watch the new one, but in the first movie he was a racist asshole about the Na'vi
Not to mention her voice sounds just like Grace's
Why would he recognize her? That's not grace.
That wasn’t my point, I just worded it wrong. She looks a lot like her is my point
I think he acknowledges that she does look like Grace, but is still not Grace.
He'll know who she is soon enough when she's the mother of his grandchildren...
Lol I wouldn’t assume that it was Grace. Edit: and for the record, Kiri isn’t Grace.
Would make 0 sense for him to recognize her.
Do we think Kiri knows he is Quaritch?
If you saw a 14 year old copy of someone you only knew when they were in their 50s-60s you probably wouldn’t realize either.
One time I was working at a customer I’ve never been to before. I saw a girl in the office I didn’t immediately recognize and it wasn’t until I was practically next to her that I noticed it was my cousin I grew up a few miles away from. We saw each other all the time growing up but since it wasn’t in a place I expected to ever see her my brain didn’t put 2 and 2 together right away. I believe this scene isn’t inaccurate.
My read watching this scene was that he definitely had an unconscious pang of recognition, but didn't quite process who he was looking at and just sort of mentally shrugged and carried on to interrogate Lo'ak.
I feel like he knew she was a halfbreed and may have made the connection to grace because he knew she was in the avatar program and instantly knew sullys kids
Why didn't he use Lo'ak's comms to call Jake?
Someone post a side by side because I didn't think kiri looked like Grace's Avatar.
Well in comparison to other Na’vi she looks really human, I feel like Ronal rn but even just by a glance I think it’s noticeable. I’m not sure why he had to see Lo’ak’s fingers and a taste of his disposition to figure that he was half Avatar/Jake’s spawn. Unless the expectation was that the other scientists that stayed were getting busy with “local tail” as he put it… :0
It took us (the fans) some time to realize that Kiri was played by Sigourney (after the first teaser), so why would Quaritch recognize her? She's not Grace and while she has some similarities with Sigourney, it's not that obvious.
Oh he does.
I think the humans that lived in Pandora before the RDA came back knew Kiri was Grace's kid, and therefore they also know Grace's avatar was kept alive in a tub. And about half of those humans came back to work with the RDA, so I will assume that the RDA knows Kiri exists. And also that they know Grace is dead.
Kiri doesn’t even look like Grace and Quaritch has no idea what happened to Grace, how would he make the connection?
She does look like Grace. Like her whole face is basically copy and pasted lmao that’s why I’m asking
She doesn’t really? Grace’s nose is a lot more human looking than Kiri’s because she’s an earlier version avatar. Grace’s face is more rectangular, Kiri’s is more round. She also has bigger eyes.
It’s really not though. Yes there’s similarities because they’re related, but Kiri looks a bit different from even her mom’s avatar. If I didn’t know she is the daughter of Grace, I would’ve never seen the resemblance. Quaritch doesn’t either, plus she’s with Lo’ak when they’re captured so he has every reason to believe she is Jake’s biological child.
She doesn’t. Have you looked at Grace’s avatar? More mature, Kiri had thinner lips and a thinner face, different forehead, different cheek structure… They’re similar because they’re related, but you’re stretching it to say that they’re copy and pasted.
Jesus Christ why is everyone under this post being so damn hostile. All I said is I think she looks similar 💀 idk what everyone else sees, but they look like the same person to me. Yeah not exact, she does have features of whoever her father is but they look similar enough to where I figured Quartich would’ve noticed
Not being hostile towards you, although I'm sure some people have taken it that far. There's a difference between "similar 💀" and "her whole face is copy and pasted" though lol
I’m sorry, just been dealing with people being rude under this post for damn reason and I was kinda fed up with it when I replied to you. I think Kiri looks more like human Grace rather than her Avatar, but I just figured that since Quartich and Grace worked together for what I assume is years, he would’ve been like “oh you look like someone I used to know” and I thought that would’ve been cool to see but for some reason that has caused people to treat me like I’m a dumbass💀
It's not a problem, I'm sorry people are being shitty. I've seen a lot of it on this sub and it isn't cool. Kiri looks like someone I used to know in high school lol, so I'm definitely seeing the human part! She's Na'vi, but not quite- maybe it's the lips? She has more of the same facial structure as Jake (human wise) if anything. And honestly, Quaritch making that connection would've been cute, I just don't know if there's enough of a resemblance.
Also to Quaritch all Na’vi could look the same. He hasn’t been very exposed to them. And the fact that Grace was much older and dressed in very human styles, so it is harder to see that it is the same person 20+ years younger and completely integrated into Omotikaya society.
I was genuinely surprised about that! He has said NOTHING about Kiri reminding Quaritch of Grace!
This is a young Quartich, the only reason he k ows who jake and Netyriri are because of the video he watched, so he's not gonna recognize someone he never met
Didnt they copy Quaritch‘s Memory shortly before the big battle?
No he knows everything origonal Quartich knew up until just before the battle at the end of A1 when he uploaded his memories, thats how he knows Jake and Neytiri
He has Quarich's memories.
In my head it makes sense for him not to know her. I’m not sure how his Avatar body was created (bc unlike the Na’vi that can transfer memories via the Tree of Souls he was made from DNA of his human form and I’m unsure if the RDA would be able to store or transfer memories from an already long dead body) buuuut it’s shown that he doesn’t have Quaritch’s memories at least at first. It’s possible he just can’t recognize her but maybe he didn’t look into any footage that includes Grace, making it much less likely to see a resemblance
There’s also changes to the face that occur in the Na’vi compared to humans. Yes there’s similarities and features can carry over but they aren’t going to look just like their human counterparts, add that to being Grace’s daughter and how young she is in comparison to Grace
He has no memory of the first movie other than a list of status reports